I must agree here. If someone calls themselves a SysAdmin they MUST MUST MUST know the shell. It is vital. Case in point...I work daily with command-line only systems. I had to learn the shell. I had to learn how to change environmental variables, etc. I know people who claim to be admins, but freeze when they are faced with the shell.
The only way to learn it is to force yourself to do it. If you're like most, you'll end up preferring it to GUI once you get the hang of it. It is much faster, and you'll find your systems run faster without x running. David R. Meyer FSG Consultant / Storage Division Computer Associates International tel: +1 813 612 7394 fax: +1 813 635 7102 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 8:07 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [plug] Desktop Linux Forum Rick Moen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > Quoting Muddy Banks ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > > > It might as well be called "linux newbie admins/developers" since > > that, up to recently, is what your typical Linux user was/is. > > Again: Do they have corporate IT / MIS departments to go to? If so, > they should. If not, then they _are now sysadmins_. I find amusing the > pretense that they aren't. I find your definition of "sysadmin" to be overly broad. I know lots of knowledgeable users who grunt at the very mention of "shell." It was at another forum entirely but one that illustrates my point. I was at the PhilMUG meeting when OSX 10.1 was introduced. The principal resource speaker was a power user familiar with shells (incidentaly an employee of Sun Microsystems) who started explaining all the wonderful things that could be accomplished from the treminal application (Mac OSX's shell.) A few of us were perfectly happy with the idea but a number of power users were quite happy to ignore it, seeing it had nothing to do with them and the way they used their Macs. Yet these same people would happily gravitate to and Open Source solution if it made sense and did not force them to do unnatural (from their perspective) things like typing text into a CLI application. > > Given a choice between helping someone willing to learn about his system > and someone who "just wants to play MP3s" and refuses to learn, I'll do > the former, every time. It's a great deal more gratifying, for many > reasons including the knowledge that the user won't be back with an > almost identical question a few minutes later. Your mileage may differ. > Many people are certainly willing to learn a great deal, but not necessarily about the system as a system. They are more interested in getting their work and play done as painlessly as possible. > > No that your efforts go unappreciated, but do you automatically try to > > solve problems by running the shell or do you look for a friendlier > > GUI approach to the problem? > > I collect rhetorical questions as a hobby. Thank you for the > contribution. > > I'm also enough of a spoilsport to answer them: I solve problems > through whatever means gives the most reliable, universal results. That > often entails a preference for portable, simple tools that give > meaningful and deterministic feedback, and that can be relied upon to be > present across a very wide range of systems. But you knew that before > you asked, right? Sorry, I didn't. I'm not sure what you mean by portablem simple tools from an average user perspective. If a person wants to solve a problem, he wants to know how to do it within a paradigm that makes sense. The simplest solution from his perspective may not necessarily be the one from your perspective. As there is frequently more than one solution to a problem, many users would rather look for something sitting a few mouse clicks away rather than have to resort to keyboard commands and risk a mistake. > > > Shouldn't there be a forum for people who are interested in using the > > Linux but have absolutely no interest in 99% of the questions in the > > newbie list but may be interested other aspects of the OS? > > You seem to have a great deal of energy and enthusiasm: What's stopping > you from creating and staffing such a forum? > Time and money. Not to mention a friendly list management server :) My enthusiasm for Linux stems from the fact that I want to see a free OS made available to the general public. I would be happy to contibrute comments and encouragement to such a forum, but I know there are people out there with more time and resources than me, and who may have a professional interest in maintaining such a list. Linux is still basically a hobby for me. > -- > Cheers, "Reality is not optional." > Rick Moen -- Thomas Sowell > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > _ > Philippine Linux Users Group. Web site and archives at http://plug.linux.org.ph > To leave: send "unsubscribe" in the body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fully Searchable Archives With Friendly Web Interface at http://marc.free.net.ph > > To subscribe to the Linux Newbies' List: send "subscribe" in the body to ph- [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- _ Philippine Linux Users Group. Web site and archives at http://plug.linux.org.ph To leave: send "unsubscribe" in the body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fully Searchable Archives With Friendly Web Interface at http://marc.free.net.ph To subscribe to the Linux Newbies' List: send "subscribe" in the body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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