The biggest change of thinking for us poor users is going from J6 to the JHS part of J7. It is both exciting as well as challenging. I am there thinking about making applications with browsers. There is quite a lot of hard study of tools etc. Using JHS as a user is relatively easy.
Going from J6 to J7 GTK is a very different story and it is not that much different in many ways from using J6. As a user it is very nice. Making applications your own gui applications with GTK should/could be relatively easy but as of yet I am not confident enough using GTK to do that. I am pretty sure you can do more or less everything you can do in J6 even now with some hard study. That may be a problem because it is a bit different from J6 and if you are used to the ease of the form editor and know your way around the utils in J6 it may take some time to figure out what to do and as far as I know now they are not as easy to use in GTK as they are in J6. So going from J6 to J7 can be easy or it can be hard depending on what you want to do. Demos/labs/helps are not yet as plentiful nor as good as the ones in J6 and definitely not as easy to use yet. 2011/1/27 Ian Clark <[email protected]> > Oh don't get me wrong. I think the decision to release a J version > that generates html for its ui is brilliant. > > Well, no, not brilliant exactly... > > Inspired. > > Worth any sacrifice of immediate day-to-day convenience. Like you I'd > be in there and dabbling with it, were it not for tasks outstanding. I > said 2012 before j7 would be serving my needs. No, it will be a little > before that. I estimate 2 months to overcome my growing pains, stop > grousing and saddle up the new horse. This one will be a winner. > > > > > 2011/1/27 Björn Helgason <[email protected]>: > > I do agree that very many easy tools are available in J6 and many/most of > > them have not yet been replaced in J7. > > When that will happen is hard to say. > > It is pretty adventuresome to throw away such an excellent product like > J6 > > and jump on to something like J7. > > I do realize that J7 as it stands now is more of a promise than a > reality. > > I do know there is a lot more to J7 and the new environments than what I > am > > able to utilize at the moment. > > I also do know that as time goes by I am pretty sure that J7 has a good > > future and the excellent tools of J6 will be replaced. > > When to jump on the J7 bandwagon has to be up to anyones decisions. > > I do not see myself learning much of what J7 has to offer if I continue > > using J6. > > > > 2011/1/26 Ian Clark <[email protected]> > > > >> > It is more or less like stopping drinking or smoking. > >> > It is also why it is so difficult for fat people to go down in weight. > >> > You have to eat something at least once in awhile. > >> > Step wise is not the way to go. > >> > Aim for a goal and go for it. > >> > I decided many months ago to go over to J7 and since then I hardly > open > >> J6. > >> > >> J602 is the horse that pulls my cart. Not the horse I ride for > >> therapy. To switch horses at this stage in my pet project is like > >> switching to 3D halfway through shooting a movie. You end up in > >> wonderland. > >> > >> Why j602 pulls my cart so well boils down to jwd. My professional life > >> has been gui since the 80s and I've never known such a minimalist > >> interface. It's the kalashnikov of the gui battlefront: nothing to go > >> wrong. And when it does you can fix it with a screwdriver. I can > >> develop an app on the Mac and it works first time, and keeps on > >> working, and I never have to touch it again. And it runs on Windows... > >> 2000, XP _and_ Vista... and keeps running when VB and V-whatever have > >> packed up and gone awol. (Yes - I have the case-studies.) I shall be > >> very, Very sorry to lose that capability when the time comes to > >> relegate j602 to the basement of my hard-drive. > >> > >> Does anyone know another app development system that can do that -- > >> and you can start using it effectively in an evening? (...the gui, I > >> mean, not the language :-) And doesn't cost $000s or is only good for > >> screen-savers? Please tell me: I collect them. > >> > >> It really pains me to be pushing jwd way beyond its provenance -- on a > >> less-used platform -- just when everyone who knows it better than I do > >> is preoccupied with putting the finishing touches on a shiny new > >> replacement. And - yes, I have tried j701 (both jhs and gtk) and - > >> yes, it's fab. It will serve my needs most satisfyingly in 2012. > >> > >> I can hear people thinking. Why develop on the Mac and port to > >> Windows? Because nuts-and-bolts don't trip you up when you're in full > >> creative flight. That's what the developers of Excel (formerly > >> Masterplan) knew well enough. Likewise Word, Photoshop, Illustrator... > >> the list goes on. > >> > >> I absolutely and utterly loathe Windows. Plus its performing poodle: > >> VB. Which is ungrateful of me, considering it paid my wages for the > >> last 10 years of my working life. But it's sick individuals, not > >> healthy ones, that make doctors fat. > >> > >> Sorry... this should have gone out on the rant forum. > >> > >> > >> > >> 2011/1/26 Björn Helgason <[email protected]>: > >> > It is always a question when making a change if you take a giant step > or > >> > many small steps. > >> > Most people can not do many gradual steps. > >> > It is more or less like stopping drinking or smoking. > >> > It is also why it is so difficult for fat people to go down in weight. > >> > You have to eat something at least once in awhile. > >> > Step wise is not the way to go. > >> > Aim for a goal and go for it. > >> > I decided many months ago to go over to J7 and since then I hardly > open > >> J6. > >> > If I do I mostly do it to remind me of something I used to do and > >> something > >> > really specific. > >> > It was a bit hard in the beginning and mostly because J7 was moving as > >> well. > >> > Some weeks ago J7 more or less stopped moving and increasing stuff > became > >> > available in J7. > >> > I see nothing wrong in keeping J6 and it is really excellent. > >> > I am pretty sure I would not be able to do a gradual move over. > >> > For me it is either or. > >> > > >> > 2011/1/26 Ian Clark <[email protected]> > >> > > >> >> Thanks, Bill. What I suspected. > >> >> > >> >> Jgtk in j701 is the final destination for the stuff I'm doing. But to > >> >> make progress I don't want to lift both feet from the ground at once. > >> >> > >> >> Ian > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 5:49 AM, bill lam <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> >> > I guess this is mac specific that moves the title bar to the top of > >> >> > desktop but wd does not handle it properly. jgtk in j701 should > work. > >> >> > > >> >> > Срд, 26 Янв 2011, Ian Clark писал(а): > >> >> >> How can I persuade wd to display a window without the titlebar? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I notice that wd 'pc formid [style]' has a range of styles that > look > >> >> >> as if one of them ought to do the trick. None of them do anything > on > >> >> >> the Mac. They make no change to the form that I've been able to > >> >> >> discern, in appearance or behaviour. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Ian > >> >> >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> >> For information about J forums see > >> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> >> > > >> >> > -- > >> >> > regards, > >> >> > ==================================================== > >> >> > GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3 2008-08-24 > >> >> > gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 4434BAB3 > >> >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> > For information about J forums see > >> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Björn Helgason, Verkfræðingur > >> > Fornustekkum II > >> > 781 Hornafirði, > >> > t-póst: [email protected] > >> > gsm: +3546985532 > >> > sími: +3544781286 > >> > http://groups.google.com/group/J-Programming > >> > > >> > > >> > Tæknikunnátta höndlar hið flókna, sköpunargáfa er meistari > einfaldleikans > >> > > >> > góður kennari getur stigið á tær án þess að glansinn fari af skónum > >> > /|_ .-----------------------------------. > >> > ,' .\ / | Með léttri lund verður | > >> > ,--' _,' | Dagurinn í dag | > >> > / / | Enn betri en gærdagurinn | > >> > ( -. | `-----------------------------------' > >> > | ) | (\_ _/) > >> > (`-. '--.) (='.'=) ♖♘♗♕♔♙ > >> > `. )----' (")_(") ☃☠ > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Björn Helgason, Verkfræðingur > > Fornustekkum II > > 781 Hornafirði, > > t-póst: [email protected] > > gsm: +3546985532 > > sími: +3544781286 > > http://groups.google.com/group/J-Programming > > > > > > Tæknikunnátta höndlar hið flókna, sköpunargáfa er meistari einfaldleikans > > > > góður kennari getur stigið á tær án þess að glansinn fari af skónum > > /|_ .-----------------------------------. > > ,' .\ / | Með léttri lund verður | > > ,--' _,' | Dagurinn í dag | > > / / | Enn betri en gærdagurinn | > > ( -. | `-----------------------------------' > > | ) | (\_ _/) > > (`-. '--.) (='.'=) ♖♘♗♕♔♙ > > `. )----' (")_(") ☃☠ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > -- Björn Helgason, Verkfræðingur Fornustekkum II 781 Hornafirði, t-póst: [email protected] gsm: +3546985532 sími: +3544781286 http://groups.google.com/group/J-Programming Tæknikunnátta höndlar hið flókna, sköpunargáfa er meistari einfaldleikans góður kennari getur stigið á tær án þess að glansinn fari af skónum /|_ .-----------------------------------. ,' .\ / | Með léttri lund verður | ,--' _,' | Dagurinn í dag | / / | Enn betri en gærdagurinn | ( -. | `-----------------------------------' | ) | (\_ _/) (`-. '--.) (='.'=) ♖♘♗♕♔♙ `. )----' (")_(") ☃☠ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
