Link yang saya berikan adalah dari internet.
Salam. Stanley. From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of johny_indon Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 4:41 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [proletar] Re: Sebelum perang salib. setanley, elu itu udah kepepet abis. lu bikin kesimpulan sembarangan dari sumber yg elu bawa sendiri. sialnya, itu sumber berbahasa inggris, satu2nya bahasa yg samasekali ngga elu kuasai. lebih gobloknya lagi, link yg elu kasih itu malah mengacu ke hard disk elu bukan ke situs internet. bener2 tolol pangkat tujuh dah. mestinya elu yg diem, daripada digaplokin terus di sini. kasian kresten2 yg cerdas, pasti malu liat komentar2 konyol elu. --- In [email protected] <mailto:proletar%40yahoogroups.com> , "Stanley Sethiadi" <ssethiadi@...> wrote: > > Angka 3000 saya dapat dari internet. Mengapa orang Islam itu bertanya > mengapa orang Islam membunuh 3000 pilgrim Kristen saya tidak tahu. Kalau > Anda tahu mengapa, harap forward jawabannya. Kalau tidak bisa, diam saja > deh. > > > > Salam, Stanley. > > > > From: [email protected] <mailto:proletar%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:[email protected] <mailto:proletar%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf > Of ajeg > Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 12:00 PM > To: [email protected] <mailto:proletar%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [proletar] Sebelum perang salib. > > > > > > > Kenapa ada orang Islam bertanya seperti itu? Dan, kenapa pula Anda > jawab / simpulkan jawabannya selucu ini: > "Kelihatannya alasannya sama dengan alasan bom Natal, dan terakhir > bom Solo baru-baru ini. Mereka mau hapuskan umat Yahudi dan umat > Kristen dari bumi ini". > > Padahal, menurut data yang Anda bawa sendiri (di bawah sana), > yang terjadi saat itu adalah konflik Byzantium vs Seljuk, bukan > Kristen vs Islam (ini data yang umum, dan gampang didapat, > tentang situasi pada masa itu). Juga, data Anda gak menyebut > ke-3000 orang itu seluruhnya Kristen, karena jelas ditulis di sana: > "including many Christians". > > Karena Anda bilang 3000 orang itu Kristen semua ya jangan > salahkan siapa-siapa kalau orang ragu Anda sudah baca data yang > Anda bawa sendiri. > > Kocaknya lagi, jumlah "3000" ini bisa sama lho dengan sebab-musabab > perang salib versi Bush! Coba ketik "3000 victims" di google. > > Sekedar kebetulan atau contekan kasar dari file-file provokatif > macam filemu itu (Catholic/JihadAndCrusades) supaya kelihatan sahih > buat njerit "crusade!" lagi. > > Kalau begini (selama akal gak dipake) bukan mustahil seribu tahun > yad orang-orang seperti Anda bakal bilang, "Orang Islam bunuh 3000 > orang Kristen dalam peristiwa 911". > > Jadi, jawaban / kesimpulan Anda itu kemungkinannya tinggal: > 1. ngibul "berdasarkan" data (yang Anda bawa sendiri), atau > 2. terlanjur kemakan khayalan sendiri seperti si Bush sehingga > menonjol paranoidnya > > Apa sih pentingnya ngoprek-ngoprek jaman doeloe kalau cuma untuk > mengkhianati datanya? > > --- "Stanley Sethiadi" <ssethiadi@> wrote: > > > Tidak saya tidak "puyeng". Santai saja. Sekali lagi saya sedang > > bahas perang salib, bukan perang Irak dll. Yang bertanya "Mengapa > > orang Islam bunuh 3000 orang pilgrim Kristen adalah orang Islam. > > Saya betul-betul cari di-internet, tetapi tidak dapat. Kalau Anda > > ada info yang bertanggungjawab, mohon diforward dalam millis ini. > > > > Salam. Stanley. > > > > > > From: ajeg > > > > > Yeah, kalo Belanda gak sampe ke Indonesia tentu > > > Amerika & sekutu gile bener kalo sampe gak ke Irak.. > > > > > > Tambah bingung dah si Stanley yang lagi puyeng > > > ngebahas salib. > > > > > > --- "Sunny" <ambon@> wrote: > > > > > > > Kalau Turki tidak menguasai Timur Tengah, mungkin Portugal, > > > > Belanda dan Spanyol tidak sampai ke Indonesia. > > > > > > > > From: ajeg > > > > > > > > > Di catatan sejarah yang sempat saya baca semuanya menyebut > > > > > yang terjadi sebelum Perang Salib adalah konflik antara > > > > > Byzantium vs Seljuk. Gak ada yang menyebut Kristen vs Islam > > > > > (catatanmu di bawah sana juga menyebut gitu, Byzantium vs > > > > > Seljuk). Baru setelah Byzantium keteter & minta tulung gereja > > > > > langsung direspon Paus Urbanus (yang kebetulan pengin > > > > > ekspansi) dengan perang agama - bukan cuma Kristen vs Islam. > > > > > Jadi, bagaimana Anda begitu yakin "ada yang tanya mengapa > > > > > orang Islam bunuh orang Kristen?"? Atau si penanya itu > > > > > sebetulnya Anda sendiri? > > > > > > > > > > Yakin juga angkanya sebulet itu, genap 3000, gak pake > > > > > 'sekitar' atau '3000an' - dan seluruhnya orang Kristen? > > > > > (catatanmu di bawah sana menyebut "including many > > > > > Christians").. > > > > > > > > > > Lalu, bagaimana dengan sebelum "perang salib" yang ini: > > > > > silakan ketik "3000 victims" di gugel.. > > > > > > > > > > --- "Stanley Sethiadi" <ssethiadi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Sebelum perang salib terjadi, 3000 musafir (pilgrim) > > > > > > Kristen dibunuh. Ada yang tanya mengapa orang Islam bunuh > > > > > > orang Kristen? Saya cari di-internet dan saya dapati > > > > > > seperti dibawah. > > > > > > Kelihatannya alasannya sama dengan alasan bom Natal, dan > > > > > > terakhir bom Solo baru-baru ini. Mereka mau hapuskan umat > > > > > > Yahudi dan umat Kristen dari bumi ini. Tetapi apakah mereka > > > > > > sanggup? Umat Kristen didunia lebih banyak dari umat Islam. > > > > > > Baca selengkapnya > > > > > > di-file:///D:/Data/Documents/Catholic/JihadAndCrusades.htmfile <di-file://D:/Data/Documents/Catholic/JihadAndCrusades.htmfile> > <di-file://D:/Data/Documents/Catholic/JihadAndCrusades.htmfile> > > > <di-file://D:/Data/Documents/Catholic/JihadAndCrusades.htmfile> > > > > > > > > > > > > Apa ada keterangan lain? > > > > > > > > > > > > Salam. Stanley. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What Preceeded The Crusades? > > > > > > > > > > > > However the Crusades only started after five centuries of > > > > > > Islamic Jihad had conquered and annihilated, or forcibly > > > > > > converted, over two thirds of what had formerly been the > > > > > > Christian world. Shortly after the Islamic conquest of > > > > > > Jerusalem, in 638, Christian pilgrims were harassed, > > > > > > massacred, and early in the 8th Century, 60 Christian > > > > > > pilgrims from Amoriem were crucified. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Muslim governor of Caesarea seized a group of pilgrims > > > > > > from Iconium and had them all executed. Muslims extorted > > > > > > ransom money from Pilgrims, and threatened to ransack the > > > > > > most holy churches in Christendom such as the Church of the > > > > > > Resurrection - if they didn't pay exorbitant taxes. In the > > > > > > 8th Century a Muslim ruler banned all displays of the Cross > > > > > > in Jerusalem. He also increased the penalty tax (Jizya) and > > > > > > forbad Christians to engage in any religious instruction, > > > > > > even of their own children! In 772, the Calipha al Mansur > > > > > > ordered the hands of all Christians and Jews in Jerusalem > > > > > > to be branded. > > > > > > > > > > > > In 789, Muslims beheaded a monk in Bethlehem, plundering > > > > > > the monastery and slaughtering many more Christians. In > > > > > > 923, a new wave of destruction of churches was launched by > > > > > > the Muslim rulers. In 937, Muslims went on a rampage in > > > > > > Jerusalem on Palm Sunday plundering and destroying the > > > > > > Church of Calvary and the Church of the Resurrection. > > > > > > > > > > > > In 1004 the Fatimid Calipha Abu Ali al-Mansur al-Hakim > > > > > > unleashed a violent wave of church burning and destruction, > > > > > > confiscation of Christian property, and ferocious slaughter > > > > > > of both Christians and Jews. Over the next ten years, > > > > > > thirty thousand churches were destroyed and vast numbers of > > > > > > Believers were forcibly converted or killed. > > > > > > > > > > > > In 1009, Al-Hakim ordered that the most holy churches in > > > > > > Christendom - the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and the > > > > > > Church of the Resurrection in Jerusalem - be destroyed. He > > > > > > heaped humiliating and burdensome decrees upon Christians > > > > > > and Jews forcing Christians to wear heavy crosses around > > > > > > their necks, and Jews to have blocks of wood in the shape > > > > > > of a calf around their necks. > > > > > > Ultimately, he ordered Christians and Jews to either accept > > > > > > Islam or flee his areas of control. > > > > > > > > > > > > Christians remained in a precarious position and under > > > > > > threat throughout the Middle East. When the Seljuk Turks > > > > > > swept into Jerusalem in 1077 they murdered over three > > > > > > thousand people, including many Christians. It was at this > > > > > > point that the Christian Emperor of Byzantium, Alexius I, > > > > > > appealed for help to the Western churches. > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > _____ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1410 / Virus Database: 1520/3934 - Release Date: 10/02/11 > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1410 / Virus Database: 1520/3934 - Release Date: 10/02/11 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Post message: [email protected] Subscribe : [email protected] Unsubscribe : [email protected] List owner : [email protected] Homepage : http://proletar.8m.com/Yahoo! 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