Bisa aja si Ambon gangguin Stanley.. Emang nggak denger dia bulak-balik bilang nggak lagi ngebahas ini-itu kecuali puyeng sama asumsinya yang ternyata nggak cocok dengan catatan yang dia bawa sendiri.
Tapi mulai kemarin dah game over sih. --- "Sunny" <ambon@...> wrote: > Hebat juga pelajaran sejarah di Indonesia. > > From: ajeg > > > Yeah, kalo Belanda gak sampe ke Indonesia tentu > > Amerika & sekutu gile bener kalo sampe gak ke Irak.. > > > > Tambah bingung dah si Stanley yang lagi puyeng > > ngebahas salib. > > > > --- "Sunny" <ambon@...> wrote: > > > > > Kalau Turki tidak menguasai Timur Tengah, mungkin Portugal, > > > Belanda dan Spanyol tidak sampai ke Indonesia. > > > > > > From: ajeg > > > > > > > Di catatan sejarah yang sempat saya baca semuanya menyebut > > > > yang terjadi sebelum Perang Salib adalah konflik antara > > > > Byzantium vs Seljuk. Gak ada yang menyebut Kristen vs Islam > > > > (catatanmu di bawah sana juga menyebut gitu, Byzantium vs > > > > Seljuk). Baru setelah Byzantium keteter & minta tulung gereja > > > > langsung direspon Paus Urbanus (yang kebetulan pengin > > > > ekspansi) dengan perang agama - bukan cuma Kristen vs Islam. > > > > Jadi, bagaimana Anda begitu yakin "ada yang tanya mengapa > > > > orang Islam bunuh orang Kristen?"? Atau si penanya itu > > > > sebetulnya Anda sendiri? > > > > > > > > Yakin juga angkanya sebulet itu, genap 3000, gak pake > > > > 'sekitar' atau '3000an' - dan seluruhnya orang Kristen? > > > > (catatanmu di bawah sana menyebut "including many > > > > Christians").. > > > > > > > > Lalu, bagaimana dengan sebelum "perang salib" yang ini: > > > > silakan ketik "3000 victims" di gugel.. > > > > > > > > --- "Stanley Sethiadi" <ssethiadi@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Sebelum perang salib terjadi, 3000 musafir (pilgrim) > > > > > Kristen dibunuh. Ada yang tanya mengapa orang Islam bunuh > > > > > orang Kristen? Saya cari di-internet dan saya dapati > > > > > seperti dibawah. > > > > > Kelihatannya alasannya sama dengan alasan bom Natal, dan > > > > > terakhir bom Solo baru-baru ini. Mereka mau hapuskan umat > > > > > Yahudi dan umat Kristen dari bumi ini. Tetapi apakah mereka > > > > > sanggup? Umat Kristen didunia lebih banyak dari umat Islam. > > > > > Baca selengkapnya > > > > > di-file:///D:/Data/Documents/Catholic/JihadAndCrusades.htmfile > > > > > > > > > > Apa ada keterangan lain? > > > > > > > > > > Salam. Stanley. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What Preceeded The Crusades? > > > > > > > > > > However the Crusades only started after five centuries of > > > > > Islamic Jihad had conquered and annihilated, or forcibly > > > > > converted, over two thirds of what had formerly been the > > > > > Christian world. Shortly after the Islamic conquest of > > > > > Jerusalem, in 638, Christian pilgrims were harassed, > > > > > massacred, and early in the 8th Century, 60 Christian > > > > > pilgrims from Amoriem were crucified. > > > > > > > > > > The Muslim governor of Caesarea seized a group of pilgrims > > > > > from Iconium and had them all executed. Muslims extorted > > > > > ransom money from Pilgrims, and threatened to ransack the > > > > > most holy churches in Christendom such as the Church of the > > > > > Resurrection - if they didn't pay exorbitant taxes. In the > > > > > 8th Century a Muslim ruler banned all displays of the Cross > > > > > in Jerusalem. He also increased the penalty tax (Jizya) and > > > > > forbad Christians to engage in any religious instruction, > > > > > even of their own children! In 772, the Calipha al Mansur > > > > > ordered the hands of all Christians and Jews in Jerusalem > > > > > to be branded. > > > > > > > > > > In 789, Muslims beheaded a monk in Bethlehem, plundering > > > > > the monastery and slaughtering many more Christians. In > > > > > 923, a new wave of destruction of churches was launched by > > > > > the Muslim rulers. In 937, Muslims went on a rampage in > > > > > Jerusalem on Palm Sunday plundering and destroying the > > > > > Church of Calvary and the Church of the Resurrection. > > > > > > > > > > In 1004 the Fatimid Calipha Abu Ali al-Mansur al-Hakim > > > > > unleashed a violent wave of church burning and destruction, > > > > > confiscation of Christian property, and ferocious slaughter > > > > > of both Christians and Jews. Over the next ten years, > > > > > thirty thousand churches were destroyed and vast numbers of > > > > > Believers were forcibly converted or killed. > > > > > > > > > > In 1009, Al-Hakim ordered that the most holy churches in > > > > > Christendom - the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and the > > > > > Church of the Resurrection in Jerusalem - be destroyed. He > > > > > heaped humiliating and burdensome decrees upon Christians > > > > > and Jews forcing Christians to wear heavy crosses around > > > > > their necks, and Jews to have blocks of wood in the shape > > > > > of a calf around their necks. > > > > > Ultimately, he ordered Christians and Jews to either accept > > > > > Islam or flee his areas of control. > > > > > > > > > > Christians remained in a precarious position and under > > > > > threat throughout the Middle East. When the Seljuk Turks > > > > > swept into Jerusalem in 1077 they murdered over three > > > > > thousand people, including many Christians. It was at this > > > > > point that the Christian Emperor of Byzantium, Alexius I, > > > > > appealed for help to the Western churches. > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Post message: [email protected] Subscribe : [email protected] Unsubscribe : [email protected] List owner : [email protected] Homepage : http://proletar.8m.com/Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
