Bisa aja si Ambon gangguin Stanley.. 
Emang nggak denger dia bulak-balik bilang nggak lagi 
ngebahas ini-itu kecuali puyeng sama asumsinya yang 
ternyata nggak cocok dengan catatan yang dia bawa sendiri. 

Tapi mulai kemarin dah game over sih. 

--- "Sunny" <ambon@...> wrote:

> Hebat juga pelajaran sejarah di Indonesia.
> 
> From: ajeg 
>   
> > Yeah, kalo Belanda gak sampe ke Indonesia tentu 
> > Amerika & sekutu gile bener kalo sampe gak ke Irak.. 
> >
> > Tambah bingung dah si Stanley yang lagi puyeng 
> > ngebahas salib. 
> >
> > --- "Sunny" <ambon@...> wrote:
> > 
> > > Kalau Turki tidak menguasai Timur Tengah, mungkin Portugal, 
> > > Belanda dan Spanyol tidak sampai ke Indonesia.
> > > 
> > > From: ajeg 
> > >
> > > > Di catatan sejarah yang sempat saya baca semuanya menyebut 
> > > > yang terjadi sebelum Perang Salib adalah konflik antara 
> > > > Byzantium vs Seljuk. Gak ada yang menyebut Kristen vs Islam 
> > > > (catatanmu di bawah sana juga menyebut gitu, Byzantium vs 
> > > > Seljuk). Baru setelah Byzantium keteter & minta tulung gereja 
> > > > langsung direspon Paus Urbanus (yang kebetulan pengin 
> > > > ekspansi) dengan perang agama - bukan cuma Kristen vs Islam. 
> > > > Jadi, bagaimana Anda begitu yakin "ada yang tanya mengapa 
> > > > orang Islam bunuh orang Kristen?"? Atau si penanya itu 
> > > > sebetulnya Anda sendiri? 
> > > > 
> > > > Yakin juga angkanya sebulet itu, genap 3000, gak pake 
> > > > 'sekitar' atau '3000an' - dan seluruhnya orang Kristen? 
> > > > (catatanmu di bawah sana menyebut "including many 
> > > > Christians").. 
> > > >
> > > > Lalu, bagaimana dengan sebelum "perang salib" yang ini: 
> > > > silakan ketik "3000 victims" di gugel.. 
> > > >
> > > > --- "Stanley Sethiadi" <ssethiadi@...> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Sebelum perang salib terjadi, 3000 musafir (pilgrim) 
> > > > > Kristen dibunuh. Ada yang tanya mengapa orang Islam bunuh 
> > > > > orang Kristen? Saya cari di-internet dan saya dapati 
> > > > > seperti dibawah. 
> > > > > Kelihatannya alasannya sama dengan alasan bom Natal, dan 
> > > > > terakhir bom Solo baru-baru ini. Mereka mau hapuskan umat 
> > > > > Yahudi dan umat Kristen dari bumi ini. Tetapi apakah mereka 
> > > > > sanggup? Umat Kristen didunia lebih banyak dari umat Islam. 
> > > > > Baca selengkapnya
> > > > > di-file:///D:/Data/Documents/Catholic/JihadAndCrusades.htmfile
> > > > > 
> > > > > Apa ada keterangan lain?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Salam. Stanley.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > What Preceeded The Crusades? 
> > > > > 
> > > > > However the Crusades only started after five centuries of 
> > > > > Islamic Jihad had conquered and annihilated, or forcibly 
> > > > > converted, over two thirds of what had formerly been the 
> > > > > Christian world. Shortly after the Islamic conquest of 
> > > > > Jerusalem, in 638, Christian pilgrims were harassed, 
> > > > > massacred, and early in the 8th Century, 60 Christian 
> > > > > pilgrims from Amoriem were crucified. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > The Muslim governor of Caesarea seized a group of pilgrims 
> > > > > from Iconium and had them all executed. Muslims extorted 
> > > > > ransom money from Pilgrims, and threatened to ransack the 
> > > > > most holy churches in Christendom such as the Church of the 
> > > > > Resurrection - if they didn't pay exorbitant taxes. In the 
> > > > > 8th Century a Muslim ruler banned all displays of the Cross 
> > > > > in Jerusalem. He also increased the penalty tax (Jizya) and 
> > > > > forbad Christians to engage in any religious instruction, 
> > > > > even of their own children! In 772, the Calipha al Mansur 
> > > > > ordered the hands of all Christians and Jews in Jerusalem 
> > > > > to be branded. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > In 789, Muslims beheaded a monk in Bethlehem, plundering 
> > > > > the monastery and slaughtering many more Christians. In 
> > > > > 923, a new wave of destruction of churches was launched by 
> > > > > the Muslim rulers. In 937, Muslims went on a rampage in 
> > > > > Jerusalem on Palm Sunday plundering and destroying the 
> > > > > Church of Calvary and the Church of the Resurrection. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > In 1004 the Fatimid Calipha Abu Ali al-Mansur al-Hakim 
> > > > > unleashed a violent wave of church burning and destruction, 
> > > > > confiscation of Christian property, and ferocious slaughter 
> > > > > of both Christians and Jews. Over the next ten years, 
> > > > > thirty thousand churches were destroyed and vast numbers of 
> > > > > Believers were forcibly converted or killed. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > In 1009, Al-Hakim ordered that the most holy churches in 
> > > > > Christendom - the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and the 
> > > > > Church of the Resurrection in Jerusalem - be destroyed. He 
> > > > > heaped humiliating and burdensome decrees upon Christians 
> > > > > and Jews forcing Christians to wear heavy crosses around 
> > > > > their necks, and Jews to have blocks of wood in the shape 
> > > > > of a calf around their necks.
> > > > > Ultimately, he ordered Christians and Jews to either accept 
> > > > > Islam or flee his areas of control. 
> > > > >  
> > > > > Christians remained in a precarious position and under 
> > > > > threat throughout the Middle East. When the Seljuk Turks 
> > > > > swept into Jerusalem in 1077 they murdered over three 
> > > > > thousand people, including many Christians. It was at this 
> > > > > point that the Christian Emperor of Byzantium, Alexius I, 
> > > > > appealed for help to the Western churches. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 





------------------------------------

Post message: [email protected]
Subscribe   :  [email protected]
Unsubscribe :  [email protected]
List owner  :  [email protected]
Homepage    :  http://proletar.8m.com/Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    [email protected] 
    [email protected]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    [email protected]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Kirim email ke