Darren

That is precisely the problem, but even the "updates" still cause some
problems and additionally some related crashes on some systems. The problem
only goes away completely, at least as I have experienced it and as I
understand it, by not using any version of MS intellimouse, no matter how
new.

This, as with so many other problems with Protel, seems to be wholly
dependant on the phase of the day, and the time of the moon, unless of
course you want to consider the alignment of the planets at the time of
installation.

The interesting thing here, is that I had been using a Logitech Wheel Mouse
with Logitech Mouseware software successfully at another company for a long
long long time with Protel98, with never a problem, and had also used Protel
at home on my own system with the 99SE Trial version with SP6 (which also
used the Logitech Wheel Mouse and Mouseware), again, whth never a problem.
But when I started at my current position 6 months ago, with a brand new
copy of Win 2000 pro with all the updates, on a brand new Dell Dimension
4100, and a brand new Protel CD and License, the first thing that I noticed
was that I lost my shortcut keys shortly after starting the program.
(Microsoft Wheel Mouse and Intellimouse software, although I did not realize
the problem at the time.)

I called the Protel 800 number in San Diego and always ended up talking to
the same sales person (who I will not embarrass by mentioning their name
here), and was never allowed to talk directly to anyone in Technical
Support, but always had my questions relayed to TS and the answer given back
to me by this salesperson.

Notwithstanding the fact that I later found the problem listed in the Protel
Knowledge Base, that sales person was unable to get the problem even
addressed by TS, notwithstanding that it is a major bug that was reported on
the first day of use of a brand new Protel Licensee.

I stumbled around for several days until I actually discovered for myself
that the problem was in fact with the Microsoft Wheel Mouse, and when I
called Protel to tell them what the problem was and ask whether or not there
was a fix for the problem, that was when I was told by this Protel
salesperson that Technical Support had said that the problem "was not
considered to be a problem" and "would not be fixed or even addressed until
the next product release"

Please note that Protel never even told me how to fix the problem, or even
appeared to know that the problem had even existed and been reported all the
way back in Protel98, and had been in the Knowledge Base since then, and as
you have stated here, supposedly has been "fixed" at least to some extent on
some installations, for 18 months.

This bug is a known bug, or at least it appears to be known by everyone
except Protel, and even with updated drivers is known to still have other
"stability" issues (i.e.: still causes crashes with some systems), and yet
Protel tells a brand new user of a brand new license, in essence, to go
pound sand.

Forgive me if I sound a bit irate, but this is absolute bull****.

This does not qualify as Product Support in any sense of the imagination.

In subsequent months, when Altium appeared and the phone systems were
updated to reflect that fact, the same 800 number now gives you the option
of pressing 1 for Sales, or 2 for Technical Support, which, as you can
imagine, was a definite relief to me as I no longer had to deal with the
technical incompetence of the sales people, and I can at least occasionally
talk to someone who at least has a basic understanding of the problem that I
try to describe.

Unfortunately, this still has not solved any of the problems, and it has
only relieved the frustration of having to go thru the sales people.

I have subsequently learned that we appear to be stuck with a very expensive
piece of s**t that I am forced to use if I want to continue to be employed
by this company, since they have a 3 seat investment (with the last seat
purchased 7 days after the price increase at full pop).

While I will admit that 99SE is slightly better than 98, the product is
still only useful as a tool to do Manual Routing, and it is severely
severely severely SEVERELY SEVERELY SEVERELY OVERPRICED for that purpose,
and as attested to by other recent posts here in this list, as a Manual
Router, it is not much better today in its current incarnation than the
original DOS product of eons ago, and the "schematic" system is absolute
garbage, trash, dung, and not even equal to the old DOS 16 bit Orcad
Schematic Capture, which I would gladly use if I could only find a
legitimate copy and convince my boss of its superiority.

Yes, Needless to say, Protel Performance and Support are both really and
truly non existent.

As has been stated over and over and over and over again in this list, the
members of this list are the ONLY form of any support for Protel in any form
whatsoever.

I have however nonetheless convinced my bosses to buy me an newer system
which might have a little better luck in trying to make Protel dance a
little better, if not at least a little faster, and it has already arrived
and I get to open the box in my new office tomorrow. It is a Dell 530
Workstation with a 2.2 GHz Pentium 4 with 512 MB of cache and 512 MB of
regular memory on a 400 MHz system bus with a 40 GB hard drive.

I think the real reason that they bought a new system for me is that they
also now have come to realize that Protel is a piece of s**t which they are
stuck with that will never get fixed by Protel and/or Altium, and that
support is truly non-existent, and that Protel will continue to crash on
whatever system that we run it on, but that if it will at least run a little
faster, than they don't have to listen to me scream and yell all day long
about Protel running so slow and being such a "piece of s**t",  and I think
that they also hope it will run fast enough that I will not kick and beat on
the new computer like I do the current 1 GHz Pentium 3 that I have been
using, or should I say abusing, up until Friday.

Yes, another satisfied Protel Customer.

Sorry to dump, but you did ask.

Does this shed any insight into why I believe that there should be no
covering up or playing down of legitimate problems with Protel here in the
list.

JaMi Smith

* * *

---- Original Message -----
From: "Darren Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Protel EDA Forum'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Writing messages all day . . . the response . . .


> JaMi,
>
> > (Note: A specific example of Protel's wholesale failure to
> > provide specific support and fix a real problem is the
> > Intellimouse software-keyboard problem which has been
> > acknowledged as a problem in the Protel Knowledge Base ever
> > since Protel98, and which is still not fixed, and which
> > Protel has specifically stated (6 months ago) "was not
> > considered to be a problem" and "would not be fixed or even
> > addressed until the next product release" (which I doubt will
> > happen even then). Actually, most members of this list know
> > that the Logitech Mouseware is the solution to this problem,
> > but they have had to learn that from this list, and not from
> > Protel, and Protell still does not appear to know even that
> > much about the problem.
>
> The only problem that I had with the Intellimouse was fixed about
> 18 months ago by updating the mouse driver with latest one from
> the good friends at MS.
>
> The problem was that after using the wheel all the shortcuts stopped
> working. What problem are you referring to.
>
> Regards,
> Darren Moore
>
>
>

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