Gary,
I agree with all you said here.
I've seen a lot, believe me. I know and I'm working on
projects that work well and are not simulated at all.
I've seen also devices that were built on simulated
circuits and didn't perform well.
I've seen also a satellite receiver built in Bulgaria
15 years ago, which was much better and much simplier
than any foreign offered in the shops that time. I
know the designer personally and I may assure you that
he didn't even heard about PSPICE when doing his
design.
I'm not against simulations. What I'm trying to say is
that the time spent on this should worth the price.
I cannot advise someone how much time it will take him
if I don't know how experienced is he.
I also cannot judge how successful the first results
will be.

Mira

--- Gary Packman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mira,
> 
> The few good designers I have know in my 25 years of
> design *always*
> simulate their designs.  Engineers who cannot design
> a functioning
> product without a simulator shouldn't be engineers
> in the first place. 
> However, every engineer that takes simulation
> seriously can *improve*
> any design with simulation. I don't consider
> simulation a debug tool,
> rather an optimizing tool.   Have you ever purchased
> a bad piece of
> electronic equipment. If yes, this underscores the
> importance of
> simulation.  If no, you have had the good fortune of
> purchasing gear
> that probably received a thorough regimen of
> simulation before going
> into production.  Do you think that camcorder you
> take so much for
> granted just fell out of somebody's schematic
> generating package onto
> the production line?  People who argue that
> simulation takes too much
> time to be worthwhile are, in my experience, not
> proficient at
> simulation.  It takes me less time to simulate a
> circuit than it takes
> to fill out the purchase orders for the parts that
> go into the
> prototypes.  It does takes time to become proficient
> and you need tools
> that are easy to use.  Pspice is easy, Protel is not
> (probably because I
> haven't taken the time to learn properly, I already
> know PSPICE so why
> bother with Protel). Also, with more experience you
> learn to recognize
> which portions of a circuit actually merit
> simulation.  Voltage
> dividers, not necessary. High-gain multi-stage
> process control
> amplifiers that must operate in a plus or minus 100
> degree temperature
> environment, a must.
> 
> Gary Packman
> 
> Mira wrote:
> > 
> > Nice and true thoughts, Gary.
> > It all depends on:
> > 1. How experienced you are when doing and
> debugging
> > your designs.
> 
> Absolutely.
>  
> > 2. How experienced you are with the simulation
> tools.
> > Mainly analog specialists go for this.
> 
> Digital state machines should always be simulated.
> Software is always simulated before being released.
> Try to imagine how
> bad Windows would be without simulation. DOS 3.1
> would still be on the
> drawing board.
> 
> > Good designers rarely simulate their circuitry,
> while
> > newbies start with it to see the effect of
> changing
> > the circuitry and the values.
> 
> Good designers don't need to simulate to verify
> their designs.
> The BEST designers always simulate to improve their
> already good
> product.
> 
> > As opposed to what was already said, I can say
> that
> > simulations cannot replace the real world. They
> are
> > helpful, yes, but only if you know what you are
> doing.
> > Otherwise they may put you in a wrong direction.
> > As for the time you'll need to do this job... it
> > depends on you. I've seen people spending months
> for
> > simulations and then twice more time for
> debugging.
> > Luckily there are still bosses, who may afford to
> pay
> > for it.
> 
> If the simulation is done well, there is no
> debugging.  I never have to
> do any debugging (with the routine exception of
> software).
> 
> Gary Packman
> 
>
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