Well it's early in the game for Altium and ATS. Just because maintenance
hasn't been done properly before doesn't mean it won't work this time.
However, they really need to make some PR progress or else it's really
going to hurt them.

If they are fast and furious with the service packs and feature
implementations, then ATS may work out. If not, we're all here to
complain about it or go somewhere else.

As a side not, I just read a post from a guy that was still using P98.
I've heard of a few people still there because they didn't want to jump
into 99 or 99SE. I was there too right when 99 came out. I had work to
do, and the DDB was freaking me out. I ran both tools for some time.
Working in 98, and checking out 99. I eventually really liked 99 and
99SE. Generating gerbers is so damn easy in 99SE especially when I'm
tweaking things, re-generating, viewing, repeat cycle.

Even though DXP is missing a lot of stuff we had, they are working to
add it back and fix bugs (and I hope optimize the speed) so for now I'm
working in 99SE and trying DXP. The masking feature of DXP is REALLY
handy for doing sanity checks of all sort of things. 



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Gavett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 7:09 PM
> To: Protel EDA Forum
> Subject: Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP
> 
> 
> WOW - Is this deja vu?
> 
> I recall this same discussion when we purchased Protel 98 at 
> the wrong time just prior to Protel 99 and then 99SE being 
> released.  (IMO)  I would not expect any further service 
> packs for obsolete product such as Protel 99SE.  Protel has 
> shown this end of life policy with the Protel 98 and 99 packages.
> 
> We wish Altium the best of luck with DXP and ATS.  After all 
> that's why we gave up on Tango/Accel EDA and moved to Protel.
> 
> Thanks 
> Mark
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
> > Greetings,
> > 
> > I fully agree with JaMi on this one.  We have a huge investment in 
> > training for P99se.  The DXP release is a totally new 
> product that we 
> > will not be forced into.  If Protel 99se is no longer supported or 
> > updated to be comparable with products from other vendors, we will 
> > evaluate all EDA software again and select what we feel 
> best suits our 
> > needs.  Support history is sure to be a factor in this 
> decision.  DXP, 
> > in its present form, is not likely to be a contender.  If 
> Altium wants 
> > to keep its user base, they should continue to release 
> service packs 
> > for 99se.  Otherwise, they will not get any ATS fees for a product 
> > that is not ready for prime time.
> > 
> > 
> > Michael Watnoski
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 5:50 AM
> > To: Protel EDA Forum
> > Cc: JaMi Smith
> > Subject: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP
> > 
> > Aren't we about due for Service Pack 7 for Protel 99 SE?
> > 
> > DXP, even by the most expert opinions, is  not ready for 
> "Prime Time" 
> > yet, and it appears that most people are saying that it 
> will be about 
> > a year before it is really ready. (See the Altium DXP forum 
> for more 
> > on that
> > issue.)
> > 
> > There is the additional question of whether or not one wants to pay 
> > for an new system when the one that he already has paid for 
> still has 
> > some unresolved problems and issues.
> > 
> > While I know that there are those that will say that there 
> has been a 
> > "free ride" with all of the "free" Service Packs that have 
> been issued 
> > for Protel 99 SE, I would respectfully remind anybody who 
> might think 
> > that, that there are numerous people out there who have 
> bought P99SE 
> > at SP5 or SP6, and some of which have even been bitten by the price 
> > increase last July, and yet will still not receive a free 
> upgrade if 
> > they purchased before October 1st of last year, and still have not 
> > seen any response from Altium to some of the remaining problems and 
> > issues with P99SE which have been reported to Altium.
> > 
> > Please note that some of these people have not even had P99SE for a 
> > full year yet, and irrespective of how long they may have 
> actually had 
> > it, they have still seen no resolution to problems reported 
> within a 
> > week or two of purchase.
> > 
> > I would respectfully submit that many people out there have 
> purchased 
> > a product, Protel 99 SE,  for a very large sum of money, which they 
> > intend to use, and intend to keep, and intend to have it properly 
> > perform the function for which they bought it, and for which it was 
> > designed, and have the right to have the remaining problems 
> with that 
> > product fixed with another Service Pack.
> > 
> > There is an existing Bug list.
> > 
> > There are numerous other problems that have been addressed in this 
> > forum which are reasonable canidates for inclusion in a 
> Service Pack 
> > 7.
> > 
> > I would respectfully submit that this issue should be 
> discussed here 
> > in this forum, in a reasonable fashion, to determine if there is 
> > enough basis for requesting another Service Pack for Protel 
> 99 SE from 
> > Altium.
> > 
> > I would further submit that minimally that Service Pack 
> should be free 
> > to anyone who purchased Protel 99 SE while it was already 
> at SP6, and 
> > possibly even SP5.
> > 
> > Further, I believe that whether or not older users of P99SE should 
> > have to pay any fee for the Service Pack, would be a topic for 
> > discussion, and would among other things, be partially 
> based on just 
> > what was fixed versus how long it has been a known issue or problem.
> > 
> > I am not exactly sure what the date of the release of SP6 is, but I 
> > know that it was in effect when my employer bought another 
> seat for me 
> > early last July of 2001, about a week after the price increase.
> > 
> > I respectfully submit that it is reasonable to assume that at least 
> > from the time of the release of Service Pack 6, and possibly even 
> > Service Pack 5, that Altium has been working towards, and 
> > concentrating all of their efforts, not on solving the remaining 
> > problems with Protel 99 SE, but rather on the release,  and 
> sale, via 
> > ATS and upgrades, as well as new sales, of their new Product, DXP.
> > 
> > Where does that leave recent purchasers of Protel 99 SE?
> > 
> > I submit that Altium has not finished fixing the Protel 99 
> SE product, 
> > and that there are those customers who have purchased Protel 99 SE 
> > prior to October 1st 2001, who are entitled to have the 
> product that 
> > they paid for upgraded to Service Pack 7.
> > 
> > I would respectfully submit that Protel / Altium may have 
> resolved the 
> > "update" issue for those who purchased P99SE after October 
> 1st 2001, 
> > by offering an "upgrade" (by means of ATS) in lieu of an 
> "update", and 
> > that therefore, these customers will in fact get some form of an 
> > "update".
> > 
> > If Altium wants to take the stance that those customers who 
> purchased 
> > Protel 99 SE, no matter how recently, now only own a license for a 
> > product that will no longer be supported, then I might respectfully 
> > submit that an alternative to issuing a Service Pack 7 "update" for 
> > Protel 99 SE, might be to give a free "upgrade" to DXP, 
> without ATS, 
> > to all of those customers who purchased Protel 99 SE at SP6, and 
> > possibly even SP5. Of course I would maintain that that 
> free "upgrade" 
> > should not be issued (since there will be no ATS) until 
> such a time as 
> > the DXP Product has achieved a stable platform.
> > 
> > I submit that it is time to make a list and submit it to Altium.
> > 
> > Respectfully Submitted,
> > 
> > JaMi Smith
> > 
> > 
> > 
> **********************************************************************
> > **
> > * Tracking #: 73792090ED712D44B6261A336C04F760EC4B6CFB
> > *
> > 
> **************************************************************
> **********
> > 
> 

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