At 03:58 PM 8/23/2003, Choong Keat Yian wrote:
[...] not me but 3 of our team members with new machine of P4 2.4Ghz on WinXP decide to leave 99se for Protel 2.8 and that included my superior who is fluent with Protel because he was "grown up" with it since his colledge days.

Let's put it this way: why one would do so is a complete mystery to me, and I think to most readers of this list, unless we can chalk it up to a local problem (i.e., some condition not shared by the rest of us), or to lack of experience with Protel. Sometimes even an "experienced" user lacks some critical piece of information, it can happen to the best of us, and has.

Leaving Protel 99SE for 2.8, I'd say, would be a very big loss for anyone thoroughly familiar with SE, even when dealing with fairly simple designs, so I'd agree that it would indicate that a serious problem was encountered.

But we didn't doubt that; rather, I doubt that the problem has been sufficiently researched to be able to tell where exactly the problem lies. There are *many* possible places. For example, Protel does search networks for licenses, and if a machine is networked, certain kinds of network configuration issues can cause Protel to behave strangely, as I recall. It is conceivable that a single improperly configured instance of Protel, on a network, could cause Protel to crash on all networked systems. One *should* get a warning, but whenever a problem is rare, there is a substantial chance that a true bug will exist. It's impossible to test every possibility! -- so, essentially, all software has not been completely tested, it is nearly impossible.

And if the problem is indeed with Protel, then it would be a service to all users to clearly identify it as well as to find workarounds. We *know* that Protel, for most users, is very reliable, especially if the operating system is NT or W2000 and certain video cards are avoided.

Btw we all use Nvdia chipset graphic card.

If all use the same graphics card, has it been tried to install a known good card in one of the computers to see if it fixes the problem? It might be possible to borrow one. If one of this group takes the Protel CD home and installs it on a home computer, does it function properly? (As long as the same license is not used simultaneously for two users, Protel reps have stated that they don't mind this; so if I have a license that I use at work, I'm obvously not going to be using it at the same time as I use the license at home; this simply allows me to work at home or at the office without carrying a key around or uninstalling or buying another license, all of which are rather unsatisfactory. Protel shines for having this kind of policy.

My point was that it is an $8000 piece of software. If it takes $50 worth of graphics card to make it run properly, it would be an insignificant additional investment. The real cost is in identifying and fixing the problem. And doing that by bring the problem here and discussing it, in detail, with hundreds or thousands of experienced users ready to help, is far more cost-effective than either trying to figure it out all by one's lonesome or abandoning SE in favor of 2.8, which might be working simply because it places different demands on the video card. Show this to your boss!

I don't know specifically about Nvida cards, and it might depend on what exact card was being used. Others may report what has worked -- and not worked -- for them. I thought I gave a very good reason for using, say, a Matrox Millenium G450 Dual-Head card, a reason that should all by itself easily justify the investment in such a card, but I didn't see any response to that from Mr. -- Is it Mr. Choong or Mr. Yian? I won't repeat it in this message....

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