Just an additional clarification Mike, 

The book from the DXP class is nice. It's about 300 pages of what should
have shipped with the product. The class was 2 days and about 1400 bucks if
I remember correctly. My instructor was Matt Berggren and he's a really
great guy. The others in the class came from all walks... and each one came
away with something because Matt tried to address their specific needs. 
I think it was worth the trip and it will save time getting up to speed.
(Plus, now I have this good reference material when I get stuck).

Many folks are using the DXP product and getting along with it... (go follow
the threads on the DXP forum and see what they are doing). I'm just an old
'dawg'... its hard to make me jump through the hoops unless there is a real
incentive at the other side to do it (like more productivity and less
hassle)... Since they were offering the discounts I think management was
more receptive to taking the step. If 2004 is all they say... it will have
been the right decision.

You are lucky you aren't having to deal with an older software package like
I am right now... PROCAD makes Protel DXP look like a walk in the park. But
I am getting better at it... it's a REAL pain. The things we do to make a
living... LOL

Bill Brooks 
PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D., C.I.I.
Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Reagan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:01 AM
To: 'Protel EDA Forum'
Subject: Re: [PEDA] 2004 DXP Looks Great,

For those of you that dont know, we are honored to have MASTER JEDI Bill
Brooks among us. Mr. Brooks was a top qualifier in the TOP GUN contest.

Bill, wanted to ask .... was the training class worth it?  We have 11
engineers at Cornet Technology that are still using 98.  We have 11 seats of
unopened DXP and I am trying to convince management to get their engineering
department to use 2004.    What can we expect to learn from the training?

Mike Reagan

-----Original Message-----
From: Brooks,Bill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 12:12 PM
To: 'Protel EDA Forum'
Subject: Re: [PEDA] 2004 DXP Looks Great,

In my case, we upgraded a few machines to get the latest PCB and schematic
tools because the discount was available and I didn't hear too many
complaints about the DXP software on the other forum... though the asking
for help is constant... If it was easier to use I would expect to see mostly
newbies over there walking through some of the more difficult steps...

We paid the money for a training class. I used it on a couple of designs and
was very frustrated with it... So I put the box away and kept using the one
I could use 99SE.

I have felt frustrated with almost every new release... I guess that's human

When I got 98 I found out that they had broken some features that were in
2.8 2.5 I can't remember the number now... but I asked them to send me a
copy of the older release too when I needed to send something to PADS it
would still work in the older software but not in 98. ASCII out the file and
read it into the older software and jump through the hoops and viola! A PADS
file.. Why did they break it? Who knows...

 So at one point in order to do my work I needed 3 versions of Protel, Orcad
Schematic and Autocad to get my job done. They still don't have an 'all in
one' package even though the sales pitch would have you believe it.

When they came out with 99 I waited until the roar of complaints died down
and when they got to service pack 3 I figured it would be okay.... but they
came out with 99SE instead.... oh boy....

I resisted that one for a long time too.. until finally when I changed jobs
I was forced into it.  I have been using it after figuring out that the
windows filing system was the only way to go to avoid loosing track of what
'copy of a copy of a backup version of the file' was the right one....

I longed for a PCB package to edit PCB's and a Schematic Package to edit
schematics... and all this other stuff could go in the trash for all I
cared. So now we are up to service pack 6 on 99SE and there is a new
release, DXP.

So I waited again when DXP came out... and it looks like I didn't wait long
enough. So we shall see how the 2004 product shapes up... but I expect it to
be consistent with the previous releases... buggy for the first 3 service
packs and harder to use all together.

I guess that's why I 'ranted on ' a bit on the sales pitch of how great it
was... but I can guarantee I won't 'get my knickers in a knot' worrying
about it.

(I just love that one... 'Knickers in a Knot'... I heard that on TV the
other night <grin>)

Bill Brooks
PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D., C.I.I.
Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 7:53 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] 2004 DXP Looks Great,

On 02:08 PM 10/03/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
>Ian Wilson wrote:
>>I am intrigued by this.  How do the people that haven't used something
>>know it is not more (or less) productive than what they are using.
>That one is easy to answer.  Go back and read the posts again.  Almost
>every individual, including me, has indicated that they actually tried DXP
>before putting it away.

I understand that and did read it the posts. I was not commenting on
whether DXP is better or worse that P99SE. My question was asking Phil how
he *knew* it was less productive if it was still "in the box".  He replied
to say it was installed but he no longer used it.  This is a clarification
my overly literal brain can deal with.

I do know there are lots of people around that have used DXP to some degree
and given up. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few

Bye for now,

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