On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 8:03:55 PM UTC+1, Unman wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 10:44:04AM -0800, Yuraeitha wrote:
> > On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 3:00:51 AM UTC+1, Kyle Breneman wrote:
> > > >Does this help?
> > > 
> > > >https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/templates/fedora/#after-installing
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Yes, somewhat, but I found #7 on this page more helpful.  I've almost 
> > > gotten everything configured the way I want, but one thing still puzzles 
> > > me.  I used "sudo dnf remove qubes-template-fedora-23" from the terminal 
> > > (mistakenly did this before deleting/switching all app VMs that depended 
> > > on it), but apparently that didn't completely remove fedora-23 template 
> > > VM because even after several restarts the fedora-23 template VM is still 
> > > showing up in the Qubes VM Manager.  How can I get rid of it for good?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > > 
> > > Kyle
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 1:25 AM, Andrew David Wong <a...@qubes-os.org> 
> > > wrote:
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > 
> > > Hash: SHA512
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On 2018-02-20 22:48, Kyle Breneman wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I'm running Qubes 3.2.  I have the default Fedora 23 template VM, and 
> > > > the
> > > 
> > > > default app VMs built from it, but I also installed a Fedora 26 template
> > > 
> > > > VM.  Now I want to delete or upgrade my Fedora 23 app VMs, but I cannot
> > > 
> > > > figure out how to do this.  The "Delete VM" menu option in the Qubes VM
> > > 
> > > > Manager always seems to be grayed-out.  How can I either delete these 
> > > > app
> > > 
> > > > VMs based on Fedora 23, or switch them over to my Fedora 26 template?
> > > 
> > > >
> > > 
> > > > Regards,
> > > 
> > > > Kyle
> > > 
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Does this help?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/templates/fedora/#after-installing
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > - --
> > > 
> > > Andrew David Wong (Axon)
> > > 
> > > Community Manager, Qubes OS
> > > 
> > > https://www.qubes-os.org
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEZQ7rCYX0j3henGH1203TvDlQMDAFAlqNELUACgkQ203TvDlQ
> > > 
> > > MDDjCBAAuCHhRevjEfHIRhSkpTs6QIh8c8BBy+dWceVM14Qu24187j6hZ5OedsJZ
> > > 
> > > QVoP00tdW+xRZfnroW15f9Rzb5MPWQp/RW84rESGVBt1f7mCwzwR1aLRa7ivBPWf
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> > > 
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> > > 
> > > HyJn5P/wugaaw0+vBwU381WkCYuq/tB/HLPDirsDjK0iX9hkh6/McDZ7uD0mWmCH
> > > 
> > > NZnHKjifEkF57P5wNLVFaz90q6YfrGnyS8jJKNEopcurZOtpd0wHKnW7eh/0iO6H
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> > > 
> > > bFQ7jKlS8wI1ZEOYZw2oBWm72nkFO0uIt8A+60mxdq4/zY++FPg=
> > > 
> > > =Xrgv
> > > 
> > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > 
> > It's an issue someone else encountered in the past, somewhere on these mail 
> > threads, at least a good couple months back if memory serves. I thought it 
> > had since then been made impossible by now to remove the template 
> > prematurely? But it seems not. In this case, you can now only remove it 
> > manually once the damage has been done. At least to my knowledge about it. 
> > The link Andrew linked should do the trick.
> > 
> > Currently there is not enough redundancy to prevent mistakes such as 
> > premature removal, or mixing up qvm-remove and "dnf remove", which both can 
> > cause mayharm. 
> > 
> > Is this something that's been put on github tracking issues/features? 
> > anyone knows?
> > 
> 
> I dont think it is possible to mix up qvm-remove and dnf remove. You
> cannot use qvm-remove on a template installed using dnf, and dnf remove
> wont do anything on a cloned template.
> Also, isnt there still a warning if trying to remove a template which
> has qubes using it? If not, that's a bad regression. I'm sure there was.
> 
> Does the template still appear if you run 'dnf list *template*'?
> If a template remains, I would first try dnf-remove again and note the
> response.
> Then manually remove it , if that hasnt worked and errors cant be fixed,
> but that sounds like a dnf issue.

Now that I read your post, I'm actually unsure which one of two scenarios it 
was that happened for this user posting some months back, it was either 
(qvm-remove on a rpm installed template that went through without being 
stopped), or it was ('dnf remove' which removed the template despite there 
still being AppVM's and system processes tied to it). Frustratingly I don't 
remember which one it was, it's been too long now.

I remember the user who had issues with this (one of the two scenarios above), 
was an issue that wasn't possible on Qubes 3.2., and that it was a issue that 
only happened on Qubes 4, at least at the time.

I tried looking for this thread, but I can't find it. It'd be best to link to 
it as a source before making claims like these, to which I'm sorry but I can't 
find it. 

It also doesn't seem very safe to test this on ones own system to verify, 
unless one has the free time and knowledge to undo any harm it does, so I'll 
refrain from testing it out. Maybe it's a thing to test if one is planning to 
re-install anyway, as a last thing to do before shutting down? It'd be good to 
know what is possible and was isn't possible, in order to help others avoid the 
situation.

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