Reed -- there has been a near endless run of low vs not-low discussions 
here and on the iBob and the 650b list. I feel like I've read them all and 
agonized over the damn concept myself for years. But I've never seen a more 
sensible and succinct assessment of the whole thing than these quickly 
punched out 9 posts above. Bill L nailed it one way, Evan B pretty much 
said what GP himself has been saying forever, which, is you can probably 
get used to anything given some time and Steve P knows his stuff and has 
real experience with some pretty darn nice bikes.

Me, I've got only this to add: having bounced through 5 similar yet 
different 650b rides in the last six years (2 typical trail Rivs, a V/O low 
trail and now 2 Jeff Lyon even lower trail bikes) I'd say that there can be 
some unpredictable bike-to-bike variations in performance that don't just 
fall in line with the "spread sheet" of expectations. Why? I have no idea 
but I have a Saluki that does not play well front loaded and Bleriot that 
does (yet, supposedly they are super close in geo). The V/O worked nicely 
but didn't incite much passion, The 2 Lyon's: one with drops and the other 
with uprights exhibit somewhat different tendencies, which, I suppose, 
speaks to the bar choice and riding position. 

I ended up on flexy front loading low-trail rides though ... and I don't 
see myself going back. Maybe I'll go in another direction altogether but 
for now, I couldn't be happier.



On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 6:24:31 PM UTC-4, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>
> I've been a Rivvy sorta guy for the last ten years, owning several of 
> their bikes and numerous others built up in Riv-inspired ways. Recently 
> I've been reading through back issues of Bicycle Quarterly, and back posts 
> on Jan Heine's blog. It's got me wondering about this whole 
> alternate-universe practical bike thing he describes, which seems to be 
> characterized by low trail steering geometry, flexible frames, and carrying 
> loads up front.
>
> I'd love to try it, but such bikes aren't exactly common. 
>
> Does anyone have experience with both Rivvy (mid-trail, burly rigid frame, 
> carrying stuff all over) and the more French rando / Jan sort of bike? What 
> did you think of each?
>
>
> Reed
>

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