How do you find having the saddle all the way affects your reach to the pedals / pedal stroke?
On Thursday, October 13, 2016 at 5:57:19 PM UTC-4, Eric Karnes wrote: > > Patrick: I've also found the same. I like to be back on the saddle when > cranking at a low rpm. But prefer to be a bit further forward when I'm > spinning with less resistance. Just my (completely unscientific) > observations. > > Rene: For you're sake, lets hope they graded on a curve! I've definitely > found the same. The B17 always needed to be all the way back for me...even > on a Riv. One of the reasons I think I'm more comfortable on the C17. > > As for choosing the bike for drop versus upright... > > I just picked up a used Hilsen for a second bike...Woohoo! I ended up > going with a 61cm, even though Riv sizing says my 89.75 pbh would be better > on a 63. Though there is a bit more seatpost/stem showing then I like, I > went with the 61 for a few reasons: (1) My 62cm SimpleOne fits me perfectly > and shares the same top tube length as the 61 Hilsen. I know Riv downplays > this, but for a long-legged, short-torsoed gentleman like myself, I try to > pay attention to it; (2) I feel like I could use drops or upright bars on > the 61, while the 63 would be too long and require a ridiculously short > stem. Granted, I probably won't put drop bars on it anytime soon, but I > like the feeling that it's possible; and (3) it was available at a good > price and is a beautiful bike. That said, I may live to regret the choice. > But like I say to my students when they ask if something will work, > 'there's only one way to find out.' > > Eric > > On Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 10:52:15 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote: >> >> Eric: this agrees with what I read about saddle setback and weight on >> hands; that a butt position behind the bb, no matter how this is achieved, >> makes your torso muscles carry more weight and leaves less on your hands. >> It certainly agrees, too, with my own experience -- a saddle too far >> forward makes you support yourself on the bar. >> >> Of course there are other reasons for having more saddle setback; >> pedaling torque is one that I notice -- I find myself scooting back when I >> want to shove the pedals around at low rpm, for example, when climbing in a >> fixed gear. >> >> And the classic bolt-upright bikes certainly seem to "encourage" a >> setback saddle. Look at the 3 photos below and see where the saddle nose >> falls wrt the cranks. >> >> The omafiets looks horrible; yet, when I've ridden one -- no more than a >> few hundred yards -- I have been surprised at how "lively" it feels; though >> the bars hit my knees when I turn sharply. >> >> [image: Inline image 1] >> >> [image: Inline image 2] >> >> [image: Inline image 3] >> >> Ok, ok, yes, this is extreme, but whatta bout this one? Froome, 2016. >> >> [image: Inline image 4] >> >> On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 9:12 AM, Eric Karnes <epka...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Very good question. I have a similar understanding of geometry as I have >>> of macroeconomics. Which is to say, none. So I'll leave the theorizing to >>> others. >>> >>> But I will say (as a few others have opined in other conversations) that >>> I have never been able to get older racing bikes to work well with upright >>> bars. On my mid-eighties Trek for example (73.5 sta and 73 hta), I always >>> felt like all of my weight was resting on my hands. This occurred even with >>> different bars (albatross, jitensha, vo porteur), different stem lengths >>> (everything from 8mm to 12mm), and different bar heights (below, even with, >>> and above the saddle). It turned out the most expensive 200 dollar >>> Craigslist bike I've ever come across. >>> >>> My SimpleOne on the other hand (72 and 72 if I remember correctly), >>> works beautifully with upright bars. Right now it's sporting VO Porteurs >>> even with the saddle height, so it's not like I even have to be bolt >>> upright to be comfortable. It took a little bit of noodling to get it >>> dialed in, but honestly not a whole lot. I'm even thinking of getting a >>> Hilsen with the same tt length and trying out some drop bars (which have >>> always intimidated my long-legged, short-torsoed self). >>> >>> Eric >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 10:37:29 AM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote: >>>> >>>> Starting a new thread about a topic that has interested me for a long >>>> time, with a question: do slack angles and therefore (all else equal) >>>> saddles well back of bb, work better with upright positions? Or perhaps, >>>> an >>>> upright position works best with a rearward saddle and thus slack angles? >>>> >>>> I recall dithering about a nice Dave Moulton, at a very good price, >>>> because of the 74* st angle, and being told that a racing position on a >>>> racing bike means being forward over the crank assembly/bb shell. This was >>>> confirmed by several experienced ex racers. I finally passed. >>>> >>>> The classic bolt upright ride seems to be the Raleigh DL-1, perhaps >>>> Dutch city bikes (but I've no experience with them). Such slack angles, >>>> high bb shell, and ends of grips practically bumping your knees. I've >>>> ridden many such bikes and I've watched others ride them, and I know for a >>>> fact that they very strongly discourage an energetic riding style -- if >>>> you >>>> try to ride hard, you always (and I see others always) reposition the body >>>> to negate the design -- lean forward, grab bar next to stem, sit on nose >>>> of >>>> saddle). >>>> >>>> And then there's the gearing: stock on the DL-1 was 46/18 or 72 gi, >>>> iirc. Even if 44/18, that's still 68". Even 68" on a very tall, 50 lb bike >>>> is damned high. >>>> >>>> So the design must have been built with a (1) relaxed or energy >>>> conserving and (2) ponderous or high torque/low rpm >>>> >>>> It's hard to understand why the DL-1 remained in production for so >>>> long; I don't think that this extended product life can't be explained >>>> solely on failing-socialist Indian and Chinese economic practices, or pure >>>> inertia. >>>> >>>> So something about this sort of riding position must work, and >>>> therefore one presumes that Raleigh had worked out the riding style, and >>>> then the position, and then the angles and lengths that were most >>>> efficient >>>> with this position. >>>> >>>> Translate this into the upright Rivendells. These have low bbs, so >>>> that's different; they also come with low gearing -- I get the impression >>>> that these favor spinning, and not mashing? >>>> >>>> And the Rivs have startlingly long tts -- to countereffect the rearward >>>> sweep of the bar and the slacker heads? So, this would mean a more >>>> aggressive riding position, and therefore more spirited riding style, than >>>> what the DL-1 was designed for. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 2:19 PM, Eric Karnes <epka...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> My guess that this is mostly a commentary on the use of fairly steep >>>>> seat tube angles (73–75 degrees) on many road/sport/touring bikes from >>>>> (very roughly) the 80s to present. This can make it very hard for some >>>>> people to get a proper weight distribution without slamming the seat >>>>> back, >>>>> using an ultra-setback seatpost, or a combination of both. I had a >>>>> mid-eighties Trek sport touring bike like this. I loved the way the frame >>>>> rode, but the 73.5 degree sta made it impossible for me to get >>>>> comfortable. >>>>> >>>>> [...] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 2:27:41 PM UTC-4, Belopsky wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> [...] >>>>>> As a follow-up, I saw somewhere Grant writing that people like to >>>>>> slam the seats ALL the way back - is this due to the upright bars / >>>>>> higher >>>>>> than seat bars / upright posture on a bike? >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. >> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. >> Other professional writing services. >> http://www.resumespecialties.com/ >> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ >> Patrick Moore >> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten >> ************************************* >> *************************************************** >> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a >> circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and >> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu >> >> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the >> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto >> >> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart >> >> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle >> >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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