On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:40, donnella whitacre wrote: > i know that and i blame him(chomsky) many others for the pro palestinian > anti israel over board stuff at our colleges these days.
I've never found Chomsky opposed to Israel so much as opposed to the way it has turned into an oppressor. As far as "over--board", that appears to be a horrible result of the polarization that anyone deciding to do some elementary research in the topic, seems to fall into - I myself encountered something like that in the 1980s when New Zealand became Nuclear-Weapon-Free and the Reaganites wanted to believe we'd all turned into America-hating commie pinkos. And the post-Brezhnev Politburo put their foot in their mouth with a press-release treating us as if we'd joined the communist bloc. It takes discipline to change one's mind without "side-effects". But it's worth the effort. > i said i only > liked to listen to some things sullivan said. not all, i also stated i > couldn't understand being gay why he would support bush. Well, I don't have either TV or access to the American channels, so I'll refrain from comment. > evidently he > didn't. but just like every one , no one is completely with out value, no > one always says good or bad things. that is why we call it a dialog? we > learn form listening to those we like as well as dislike. like him if you > want to (chomsky) i agree with those who don't. sorry. i have said many > good and postive things about arabs. i have yet in a discussion hear any > arab say anyting positive about israel, with the exception of those sites > that are pro israel? but in discussions not a one. i don't re call wesley > ever saying any thing good about israel. sorry if i missed it. that is not > balanced. As far as that goes, I have not ever discussed matters that I feel Israel has managed to get it right. I am trying to balance the Arab-hating (and Muslim-hating) stuff I've heard too much of, I am trying to bring some sanity into the discussion by pointing out, for example, that Israel did accept some very, very minimal obligations in the Oslo Agreements, and consistently failed to fulfill them. That's something I've not heard from you, donnella. But if you want to hear me say some good things about Israel - well, the fact that some Palestinian Arabs _weren't_ expelled in 1948 is positive, and says a lot for the integrity of those officers of haGanah who refused to implement illegal orders; it is one of the things that gives some hope of an end to the current crisis. That some survivors of the Holocaust found refuge in Israel and were able to rebuild their lives, is a positive thing. That some Jewish Israelis have the integrity and courage to oppose their government when it implements grossly unjust measures against the Palestinians, and furthermore, oppose it by putting their bodies on the line, that is very positive - they make the claim that Israelis don't care for the consequences of their actions, a lie, requiring it to be qualified and cut down quite considerably. I have yet to see you make any statement even remotely similar concerning Arabs and/or Muslims, donnella. And about Chomsky being a Zionist - his parents were Zionists and he spent time on a kibbutz after Israel's independence. He's a post-Zionist now. > and really i didn't see that sullivan made a fool of himself. i watched the > show. he just stated how he felt. it wasn't a fit. i was thinking it was > some one he would have liked, instead he didn't. the week before richard > beltzer did throw a fit and threaten to walk off stage over Anne Coulter. > so context? he called her a facist party doll. and had nothing but > contemptious things to say about her. i just find republican gays a bit > unusual. 20% of them voted for bush? along with almost all orthodox jews? > strange bed fellows if you ask me. honestly , i care not either way. i only > know for myself, i have a hard enough time with that. i don't have any > heroes here. > > > Oh come on. Sullivan is right-wing asshole and everything he said about > Chomsky is absurd. Chomsky is a scholar who is admired by more > progressives than anyone else on the left and he was not booed. If you > listened to Bill Mayer, he said he was requested by more people than > anyone else he has had on his show. Simpson was booed and so was Sullivan > and when not scratching his ass he was trying to put his head back there. > The guy is a jerk. > > Wesley is right. Many on the left were Zionists. Today they are > post-Zionists. Zionism betrayed the left by becoming a victim ideology. > As it was originally intended, to provide a haven from oppression, it > worked but when neglected the rights of others it stopped being worthy and > most definitely not deserving of being defended for that by the left. The > left in Israel understands this more than you may realize. It isn't that > the left is betraying Israel, it is the Israeli government and right-wing > policies which has betrayed the left-progressive vision. > > It is understandable that you hate Chomsky. He tells the truth. > > Hank > > On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, donnella whitacre wrote: > > please wesley, he is no zionist. i would not be suprised that you back > > him . he was on bill maher the other night and almost got booed off the > > stage. alan sullivan of the new republican had a lot ot say about him. > > and while i dont agree with alan all the time, he is interesting to > > listen to. > > > > Wesley Parish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:omigod, Chomsky was a > > Zionist from the word go. He was also a man of impeccable scholarly > > integrity. > > > > The problem with Zionism was that it conflicted with his impeccable > > scholarly integrity, so the two parted company. > > > > Is that why you despise him, donnella? > > > > Shalom > > > > > > > > Wesley Parish > > > > Quoting donnella whitacre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > chomsky is not the one to quote to me. i dispise him. sorry. > <snip> -- Wesley Parish * * * Clinersterton beademung - in all of love. 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