I think the snarky comments highlight the gap between what experts think people ought to know, and what actual, free, accessible high-quality teaching and training materials are available for new Rietveld users online.
As a community, there's massive scope for a much improved offering in this area. The old CCP14 website was a small nod in the right direction but we could do much better, myself included - I have a fair amount on on my intranet but... Nik Reeves-McLaren University of Sheffield > On 10 May 2015, at 14:57, Kurt Leinenweber <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Darren, > > That’s a very good point and clarification. > > - Kurt > > From: Darren Broom [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2015 6:54 AM > To: [email protected] > Cc: Kurt Leinenweber > Subject: RE: Apologies... The "No Attachment" rule. > > Hi Kurt > > Maybe I should let others comment first but I would just like to say that I > think a slightly harsh comment to an experienced person who has made a silly > mistake is quite different to an abrupt and perhaps patronizing comment to a > complete beginner who has asked a legitimate question. > > I have checked back and it was definitely the latter that Bill Reese was > commenting on previously... > > Cheers, > > Darren > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > Sent: Sun, 10 May 2015 13:26:28 +0000 > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Apologies... The "No Attachment" rule. > > Hi, > > > > The subject of snarky comments is a fascinating one. I have definitely been > the recipient of snarky comments for some of my more stupid posts on this > list. The good thing about them is that it lets you know that you are saying > or doing something, crystallographically speaking, that is really unpalatable > to someone out there, and you might need to know this for your own good. I > have definitely been chastised and have learned some things over the years by > being forced to read a snarky response to one of my posts. But on the other > hand, to a beginner a snarky comment can be damaging. However, these > comments are not confined to mailing lists – they happen at conferences too > and they are just part of the fabric of science. As long as the whole list > does not descend into a chaos of snarky comments, I think it’s OK to let them > get through. One possible remedy is for others to come to the defence of a > victim of excessive snarkiness. I have seen that happen on this list > sometimes, and other times have been tempted myself to intervene, though I > usually have not been brave enough (especially when the snark source is > someone famous). > > > > - Kurt > > > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf > Of Darren Broom > Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2015 3:36 AM > To: Alan Hewat; Leopoldo Suescun > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Apologies... The "No Attachment" rule. > > > > Hi Alan > > Thanks for the explanation. The point about the archive seems to me to be the > most persuasive - I see what you mean. Providing the file sharing links stay > active that does ensure the archive remains useful without having to "host" > additional files on the archive server. > > It does seem that removing any attachments automatically would be the best > solution. Hopefully Song Zhen's suggestion will help sort that out. > > Incidentally, Jon nicely illustrated one of the things about the list that I > really appreciate, by posting an interesting link that I hadn't seen before > and probably wouldn't have come across otherwise. > > Also, I wondered if you could set up SYMPA so that it strips emails of any > unnecessary snarkiness (above a predefined threshold)? > > Best regards, > > Darren > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > Sent: Sat, 9 May 2015 11:39:46 +0200 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Apologies... The "No Attachment" rule. > > Dear Rietveld list. > > > > Good to see so many people asking for the list to be continued. And even an > example of an interesting scientific question immediately answered by an > expert. Encouraging. > > > > So why do I forbid "sinful" attachments ? (No, it's not because I'm getting > old and snarky, though we all do eventually :-) Think of the Rietveld list as > a kind of relaxed "Twitter", except that you are not limited to 140 > characters. And what about Google's decision this month to favour sites that > can be used on a mobile phone ? Yes, even oldies use mobile phones for email. > SMS is another example of beauty in brevity. > > > > Then the Rietveld Archive is an excellent record of past discussions - > without the attachments. Messages that rely on attachments are then often > incomprehensible - look up that message on > https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Frankly, if you need more > than that, put it on a webserver with a link to it. Such links are preserved > in the archive. > > > > If you see my own warning about "no attachments" as an attachment :-) perhaps > you should check how your email client is set up. Or tell me how I can do it > differently with SYMPA www.sympa.org I didn't design the mail server nor the > mail archive. Clearly, it is difficult to enforce a simple "no attachments" > rule, so what would it be like policing a "small attachments" rule ? Even if > you personally have lots of space for email, our webserver (for which we > don't pay) would still have to distribute ~1500 copies of your "small > attachment". > > > > In this particular case, a figure from an unpublished paper was published and > criticised out of context. Is that really fair? If it's from a referee's copy > we shouldn't even refer to it, let alone publish it. If it's a pre-print, > just publish a link to it. But there are already plenty of examples in the > published literature if you are looking for evidence of regression. > > > > So where are the "Apologies"? There are none :-) "Excuse me" is what people > say when they elbow their way through a crowd. (I only do that when I really > need to). So if you really need to attach a document, go ahead. After all, > you can still read the list on the archive. > > > > Alan > > ______________________________________________ > > Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE > > <[email protected]> +33.476.98.41.68 > http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat > ______________________________________________ > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Please do NOT attach files to the whole list <[email protected]> > Send commands to <[email protected]> eg: HELP as the subject with no body text > The Rietveld_L list archive is on > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Please do NOT attach files to the whole list <[email protected]> Send commands to <[email protected]> eg: HELP as the subject with no body text The Rietveld_L list archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
