[FairfieldLife] Re: The answer?
That's what makes 'em so damned dangerous, especially if they decide to take a liking to probing our buttocks... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : We are still technologically primitive. We don't even have a reasonable sub-light drive (say 10% of light-speed) to map out our local system. The more interesting question is: "Have they detected us and what are they going to do about it?" So far they've lied about having come from Venus, made some pretty shapes in wheat fields and stuck a probe up Whitley Streibers bottom. What they hope to gain from this is a mystery at the moment...
[FairfieldLife] Re: The answer?
Why that's no lie! "Come from Venus" means microbes born of a Vagina. "Witney's bottom" means microbes born from Uranus. Proly, in reality, the aliens are massively formless, circulating swarms of Microbiomes - new Mahayana Buddhas looking for suffering microbes to save. Got sufferings?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The answer?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : We are still technologically primitive. We don't even have a reasonable sub-light drive (say 10% of light-speed) to map out our local system. The more interesting question is: "Have they detected us and what are they going to do about it?" So far they've lied about having come from Venus, made some pretty shapes in wheat fields and stuck a probe up Whitley Streibers bottom. What they hope to gain from this is a mystery at the moment...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The answer?
From: "emptyb...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" We are still technologically primitive. We don't even have a reasonable sub-light drive (say 10% of light-speed) to map out our local system. The more interesting question is: "Have they detected us and what are they going to do about it?" >From what I hear, they would already have done it, except that the >politically-correct politician-aliens in their sector of the galaxy recently >outlawed the bug spray they were going to use on us, for ecological reasons. They're currently working on a replacement that leaves the cool animals like dolphins and bunnies and armadillos while eliminating the humans, and amusing themselves until it gets approved by drawing meaningless pictures in corn fields, and then laughing their asses off watching us trying to project meaning onto them.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The answer?
We are still technologically primitive. We don't even have a reasonable sub-light drive (say 10% of light-speed) to map out our local system. The more interesting question is: "Have they detected us and what are they going to do about it?"
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The answer?
On 7/11/2014 6:45 AM, j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Well, of course it's the answer... in some corner of the infinite multiverse. > What is the question? The question is why we have not so far detected any intelligent extraterrestrial life? What if you woke up in the morning and found out that we had discovered intelligent life on another planet? What would you do? /"Where is everybody?"/ - Enrico Fermi 'The Fermi Paradox' http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wait-but-why/the-fermi-paradox_b_5489415.html > ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Reset
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The answer?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Déja vu all over again... Enrico Fermi didn't take this into account anyway From: "j_alexander_stanley@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 1:45 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The answer? Well, of course it's the answer... in some corner of the infinite multiverse. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The answer?
Déja vu all over again... From: "j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 1:45 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The answer? Well, of course it's the answer... in some corner of the infinite multiverse. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
[FairfieldLife] Re: The answer?
Well, of course it's the answer... in some corner of the infinite multiverse. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The answer to the astrology/Jyotish test
TurquoiseB wrote: > > All they'd have to do is make a *concrete*, > *verifiable* prediction about the near future, > with absolutely no bullshit vague language > in the prediction, and then see if it comes > true. If it did, I'd be impressed. But it > seems that's too much to ask of those who > believe in astrology and Jyotish. You will have a major life change in the next two years. ;-) However, you misunderstand that astrology is not about concrete black and white predictions. It is a weather report of the propensity for an event. However it is far better than a WAG (Wild Ass Guess). As I have said before there is something too astrology. It is not a junk science. The criticism of it by people who have never tried to learn it is about like villagers say in the Amazon where they've never seen a satellite phone and a visitor has one and they start taking about the crazy man talking to a box. There is a wide gap in knowledge. With the proper data I've never seen a chart fail to disclose the career path that a person took or will take. Many people go to astrologers to actually find if they are on the right career path. I've never seen a chart with proper data fail why the person was having difficulty in life with marriage or relationships. Often when someone asks why they are going through such a bad time one can about guess that one of the lunar nodes in transit is causing the problem. You can assure them when it will go away and it does. What you can't do is look at an ephemeris and see the likely hood of some precise event happening. You have to have a subject to see that. It can be a person or entity such as a country. One thing you will have a really difficult time with is that many astrologers, particularly western astrologers, have big egos. You can imagine if they get predictions right time after time without a strong spiritual base the ego gets bloated. I've seen this with jyotishis too but mainly ones from the west who have also a background in western astrology and not a strong spiritual base. I once attended an event with both western and eastern astrologers. Many of the western astrologers reminded me of Amway salesmen.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The answer to the astrology/Jyotish test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine wrote: > > On Jun 7, 2009, at 2:27 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > > OK, there *was* a bit of a "cheat" in this test. > > But only a bit of one. > > Just a "bit" of a cheat, Barry? LOL... > The person never existed! > > But it was your test, so you get to > make up the rules. But I don't think > that was playing fair. JMO. I thought it was a fascinating test when Dorothy Dunnett posed it. So did she, when it turns out that the original astrologer came up with inter- pretations of the chart of a fictional character based on his fictional birth date that matched fairly well the description of him in over 3000 pages of novels. *And*, the two people who gave the test here a try did pretty well, too. Go figure. > > The person whose birth data was given was the > > subject of a six-volume series of books by the > > person I consider the greatest writer of the > > English language in the 20th century. He was > > fictional. > > > > *However*, Francis Crawford, Earl of Lymond > > was also one of the most meticulously imagined > > and researched characters in the history of > > literature. His creator was Dorothy Dunnett, > > considered by many the greatest writer in > > Scottish history. > > > You probably have never heard of her, > > I've heard of her. > > > other > > than in mentions of her by me on this forum. > > The reason is that she wrote historical fiction, > > which is not everyone's cuppa tea. > > I love hysterical fiction... > > > But Dorothy > > wrote historical fiction with a precision and > > with a level of "due diligence" that most > > historians have never achieved. Dorothy never > > "fudged" anything having to do with the periods > > of time and the characters -- both real and > > imagined -- she wrote about. She would typically > > spend a minimum of a year researching the place > > and the time she was to write about, reading > > literally hundreds of books about it, going there > > personally to get the "vibe" of the place and its > > people, thoroughly immersing herself in the place > > and the time, and then starting to write. > > > > She wrote about Lymond for 15 years, in a six- > > volume set of novels known as The Lymond Chronicles. > > If anyone on earth can be said to have had a real > > existence, it is someone who has thus been focused > > on by a great writer so intently, and for so long. > > Doesn't absolve you! > Try again, this time with someone > who actually existed. I had no interest in "testing" astrology per se. I was merely doing this for fun, as was Dorothy Dunnett. If it "proved" anything, it is that people *can* make intuitive insights that have some degree of accuracy about a person -- real or fictional -- based on nothing more than their birth data. I've posted here before of what would be a *real* test of astrology, and so far all of the astrology/Jyotish buffs have failed to take me up on it. All they'd have to do is make a *concrete*, *verifiable* prediction about the near future, with absolutely no bullshit vague language in the prediction, and then see if it comes true. If it did, I'd be impressed. But it seems that's too much to ask of those who believe in astrology and Jyotish.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The answer to the astrology/Jyotish test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > Since now John (jr_esq) has had ample opportunity to read > my post announcing my test of astrology and Jyotish and > has chosen instead to use Jyotish to "reveal" things about > David Carradine that anyone reading a newspaper already > knows :-), That isn't what he did. You have it exactly backwards. What he did was, he looked at the things we already know, then looked at Carradine's chart to see if he could find indications of these things. Working backward this way is a standard exercise that astrologers perform in order to *learn*. This is a procedure that's followed in many fields to increase the ability to make a correct prediction from current data in the future. Debunking via misrepresentation (i.e., creating straw men to attack) suggests a lack of confidence in one's ability to make a coherent argument based on facts and logic.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
> > Since it appears that JohnR is not going to > > respond to my challenge with his analysis of > > my friend's medical condition as indicated in > > her Jyotish chart > > Barry posted this only a little over 24 hours since > he first proposed the test. And he said he'd wait > until 7:00 p.m. EST to post the "answer." For all he > knew, John was busy working on it, planning to post > his results by Barry's original deadline. > > He's out for revenge right now and is proposing another test. > Why would anyone want to participate in such a setup? JohnR refuses to let this drop. OK, his call. See below. By the way, go back and look at the original post. I said quite clearly that the deadline for "submissions" to the test was 7:00 pm *my* time, 12:00 Noon Fairfield time. I'll wait for the apology. Now here's the post I wrote in response to JohnR's previous rant, but which I promised myself not to post unless he continued with this crap. Some people just don't know when they've embarrassed themselves enough. So be it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John" wrote: > > Hey, RaunchD > > Barry has just confirmed in more explicit words what he > thought of my comment to do.reflex in his private email > to me. John, My email to you was not "just" sent, it was sent Thursday, in an attempt to 1) not waste a post on you, and 2) spare you airing your lack of courage and principles in public. You have chosen to make it public. So be it. This message will end my participation in this exchange with you unless you are fool- ish enough to prolong it. > I was rather surprised that he reacted with such > venom in his last post. It is revealing as to how much his > animosity can reach when anyone mentions anything about > vedic sciences or any gurus from that tradition. This is the "They aren't really criticizing me, they are criticizing my beliefs...what they really hate is what I believe in" argument that True Believers trot out over and over. Please note that this is a typical and well- documented cult tactic used to make a criticism of a *particular individual* seem as if it's "really" a criticism of the group the cultist is attempting to appeal to and gain sympathy from. So allow me to clarify -- I am NOT criticizing the Vedas by calling you a low-life scumbag. I am calling YOU in particular a low-life scumbag because of YOUR behavior. Please also notice that what you fail to address in any way IS that behavior -- your recent attempt to claim that you "knew" the answer to my test, even though you failed to post such an answer to the group. I stand by what I said in my reply to do.rflex. First, I consider you *personally* a low-life scumbag for attempting to claim that you "knew" the answer to a test that you were unwilling to take in public, where the accuracy of your answer could have been verified by readers of this forum. Next, I suggest that you have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that 1) your *own* faith in Jyotish is so shaky that you are afraid to put it to the test, 2) that you are seemingly willing to make unsubstantiated claims about what you "knew" after the fact in an attempt to hide your cowardice, and 3) that you are now resorting to classic cult manipulation techniques to pretend that I'm criticizing "vedic science" and not you. John, all you had to do to make your cowardice less obvious was shut the fuck up and live with it. Instead, you decided to compound it by pull- ing this stunt. THAT is what makes you a low-life scumbag in my book. Me saying this about you *personally* has nothing to do with my opinion of Jyotish or the so-called "vedic sciences." However, if you are presenting yourself as a representative of these "vedic sciences" and as an example of what studying them produces, then I suggest that the quality of the fruit reveals a lot about the tree.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > wrote: > > > > Since it appears that JohnR is not going to > > respond to my challenge with his analysis of > > my friend's medical condition as indicated in > > her Jyotish chart > > Barry posted this only a little over 24 hours since > he first proposed the test. And he said he'd wait > until 7:00 p.m. EST to post the "answer." For all he > knew, John was busy working on it, planning to post > his results by Barry's original deadline. He's out for revenge right now and is proposing another test. Why would anyone want to participate in such a setup? > > > I still think that this would have been an > > interesting test, if JohnR had had the cojones to > > respond to it. But he didn't. > > Actually, for all Barry knew when he wrote this, it > might well have been because Barry didn't give John > the time to respond to it, moving up his deadline by > almost six hours without even warning John he was > doing so. He's playing the macho card to entice members with jyotish knowledge to participate in his scheme. > > I think that speaks for itself > > about the depth of *his* belief in the accuracy and > > efficacy of Jyotish. > > It may speak a lot more powerfully about Barry's fear > that John might have gotten it right. > > > But the interesting test that DID take place was > > how a few TM True Believers here responded to the > > idea of Jyotish being put to the test. If John's > > lack of a response speaks volumes, theirs fills > > libraries. > > It's Barry's thoroughly, many-times-over dishonest > response to our response that would fill libraries. > > > > > As I understand Jyotish, *if it works* John should > > have no problem with noticing this medical > > condition in her chart > > According to Bhairitu, it's not that easy. It's > certainly not said to be easy in Western astrology. > > Oh, and one more thing to point out that's been > overlooked: Barry's proposal, true to form, was > deliberately misleading. Yes, pregnancy is a > "medical condition," but we had been talking about > detecting illness. An astrologer searching for > signs of an illness might well completely overlook > indicators of pregnancy. Barry hoped that would be > enough to throw John off. > > In retrospect, I strongly suspect John sensed that > there was deception involved and refused to allow > himself to be played. Could be what Nabby and ed11 > and raunchy and I sensed too, without realizing > what the specifics were. Judy, everyone in this forum suspected it was a trap.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > Since it appears that JohnR is not going to > respond to my challenge with his analysis of > my friend's medical condition as indicated in > her Jyotish chart Barry posted this only a little over 24 hours since he first proposed the test. And he said he'd wait until 7:00 p.m. EST to post the "answer." For all he knew, John was busy working on it, planning to post his results by Barry's original deadline. , and I want to finish up my > participation in all existing threads on FFL > before the new year starts, I will post the > answer. > > ( It goes without saying that any subsequent > attempts by JohnR or any other Jyotishi to > say, "Oh, I saw that in the chart, but I was > just late in posting my response" should be > greeted with howls of derisive laughter. :-) One is led to wonder whether Barry jumped the gun in posting his "answer" because he hoped to preclude any possibility of John getting it right *without* the answer being available. He set John up by giving him one deadline, then didn't honor it himself. Typical. > Below is the text I sent to the FFL moderators. > The only thing I changed in it was to delete > my friend's last name (for privacy For privacy? My, my. Barry spends a good part of the rest of his post (as well as a previous one) accusing me of mentioning privacy as "a bogus straw man" that I brought up only to "demonize" him, and makes much jolly ha-ha over how he fooled us into thinking there *was* a privacy issue. But here he himself acknowledges there is, in fact, a privacy issue. > Similarly, when Judy and Raunchydog accused me > of violating my friend's privacy by making her > medical condition public Barry's lying; neither of us ever accused him of violating his friend's privacy. I *asked* if he had her permission, to no response except an evasive and deceptive one; raunchy simply pointed out that *if* he had done so, he might be vulnerable to a lawsuit. > they were *looking for things to demonize me with* Actually, I was concerned about Barry's friend's privacy (just as he has now acknowledged he is). > and projecting them onto the situation in the > form of the bogus "privacy" straw man. The possibility that Barry was violating his friend's privacy is hardly a straw man. Barry himself clearly realized this after I pointed it out, and decided not to reveal her name after all. Please join me in laughing > at their attempts to portray me as a Bad Guy for > violating my friend's "medical privacy." It's > hard to *miss* the medical condition of someone > who is eight and a half months pregnant; keeping > it private is just not an option unless you are > wearing a tent. :-) More evidence of Barry's dishonesty. Not only was our concern entirely justified before we knew she wasn't ill, it's *still* justified. That she can't hide her late pregnancy from those who can *see* her doesn't mean she's willing to have it announced, along with her name, on a public forum. There are many possible reasons why a woman wouldn't want to spread the news of her pregnancy far and wide. > As noted > above, the only thing in it I have changed is to > delete my friend's last name out of concern that > one or more TBs here would start stalking her the > same way that they stalk me and Vaj and Paul Mason > and John Knapp and others who have dared to be > critical of TM or its ludicrous "extra added cost" > products like Jyotish. And Barry bashes me for "insinuating"! Just how thick can he layer on the hypocrisy? Nobody would have "stalked" her, of course. She has no involvement in this at all. That's a ridiculously paranoid notion, and Barry knows it. He came up with it in an attempt to cover up the reason he really deleted her name: because he belatedly realized it would be an invasion of her privacy to post it, just as I pointed out. I shouldn't have *had* to point it out, but once I had, the appropriate response from Barry would have been, "Yes, you're right; OK, I won't post her name." Instead, he tried to turn it into a weapon to bash me with. That's how much integrity Barry has. Oh, and by the way, we know now that he *didn't* have her permission to post her data with her name attached, despite his attempt to make it seem as though he had. (I'd be willing to bet a large sum that she doesn't know what he's doing even now.) > I still think that this would have been an > interesting test, if JohnR had had the cojones to > respond to it. But he didn't. Actually, for all Barry knew when he wrote this, it might well have been because Barry didn't give John the time to respond to it, moving up his deadline by almost six hours without even warning John he was doing so. I think that speaks for itself > about the depth of *his* belief in the accuracy and > efficacy of Jyotish. It may speak a lot more powerfully about Barry's fear that John might have gotten it right. > But the
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Vaj wrote: > > On Jan 2, 2009, at 11:16 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote: > > So what does this guy charge? > > > > It cost me a 100 dollars but I was told I could give what I could afford. > > Why is it mediums and astrologers don't like checks because they can't tell if the check is good or not?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > > Vaj wrote: > > > > > > You blew it. You shouldn't have given it. Yes, he will ask some people. > > > > That's the only way you'd know. He guessed my moon exactly, to the > > degree--there was a pause between cognizing the "house" and the > > degree. As he gave off each, I wrote them down in my diary. He helped > > a friend who's moon was on the cusp rectify the correct house. No > > birth date or time was given. None. > > > > Of course I'm sure he can do it either way (with or without the birth > > time). I knew little of him at the time, as I thought all he did was > > rectify birth times. So that's what I went for. I didn't realize he > > did interpretations until he started telling me my life (and previous > > lives). > I would have had to argue with him for that. Most of the jyotishis I > know who went to see him were disappointed he asked for the chart > information. K.N. Rao had told us that Karve could do the charts by > intuition. Sometimes doing astrology is just a cover for using > intuition for a reading. Some clients want a chart reading so an > intuitive will print out a chart and act like they are doing an > interpretation from it. However Karve's interpretation was pretty true > to rules regarding my chart. Some folks here mentioned that the > amateurs were telling them that they would become rich. I was told I > would have a wealthy wife. I don't have a horoscope for marriage > however many of my girlfriends were from wealthy families (and they came > after me not me them). As some master jyotishis said, "you don't have a > horoscope for marriage, have flings instead." :-D > In your case, you should take what Nature gives you. It's better than being humbled by wining and dining those women who are hard to get--that includes asking the girl's father for her hand.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
jesus B., all you do is bullshit and pontificate here, and now you are making proclamations of what people should and shouldn't do to prove this and that to you. what a hypocrite. you are the one without any balls. none. i guess getting kicked out of the Movement really did a number on you. i can't believe you were this messed up all of your life. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: -snip-> If he *didn't* know anything, and is now claiming to > have only to protect his own rep as a Jyotishi and > Jyotish itself, again there is the same bottom line -- > no balls. > > I really did give the guy a chance. And this is what > he does with it. > > I think that the conclusion that any thinking person > should draw from this is that Jyotish is a crock of > shit *and* that its practitioners like JohnR *know* > that it's a crock of shit. In other words, they are > charlatans. > > If JohnR feels differently, and cares to dispute this, > there is only one way to do so -- put his "predictions" > to the test. Allow me or someone else to propose another > "blind test" and this time follow through with it and > post his analysis of the chart in question. > > That's what a person who had balls would do. > > I expect JohnR to whine and lie instead. > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
On Jan 2, 2009, at 2:55 PM, Bhairitu wrote: Vaj wrote: You blew it. You shouldn't have given it. Yes, he will ask some people. That's the only way you'd know. He guessed my moon exactly, to the degree--there was a pause between cognizing the "house" and the degree. As he gave off each, I wrote them down in my diary. He helped a friend who's moon was on the cusp rectify the correct house. No birth date or time was given. None. Of course I'm sure he can do it either way (with or without the birth time). I knew little of him at the time, as I thought all he did was rectify birth times. So that's what I went for. I didn't realize he did interpretations until he started telling me my life (and previous lives). I would have had to argue with him for that. Most of the jyotishis I know who went to see him were disappointed he asked for the chart information. K.N. Rao had told us that Karve could do the charts by intuition. Sometimes doing astrology is just a cover for using intuition for a reading. Some clients want a chart reading so an intuitive will print out a chart and act like they are doing an interpretation from it. However Karve's interpretation was pretty true to rules regarding my chart. Some folks here mentioned that the amateurs were telling them that they would become rich. I was told I would have a wealthy wife. I don't have a horoscope for marriage however many of my girlfriends were from wealthy families (and they came after me not me them). As some master jyotishis said, "you don't have a horoscope for marriage, have flings instead." :-D I've heard of the Jyotishis who memorize the tables, but I was told this was a different deal altogether. Next time I see him I'll try the shotgun test to check his startle. Maharishi declared him a "Sat Purush" if that's of any consolation. ;-) It would be interesting to hear Ben Collins insights, he stayed at Ben's house on one of his tours.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
Vaj wrote: > > > You blew it. You shouldn't have given it. Yes, he will ask some people. > > That's the only way you'd know. He guessed my moon exactly, to the > degree--there was a pause between cognizing the "house" and the > degree. As he gave off each, I wrote them down in my diary. He helped > a friend who's moon was on the cusp rectify the correct house. No > birth date or time was given. None. > > Of course I'm sure he can do it either way (with or without the birth > time). I knew little of him at the time, as I thought all he did was > rectify birth times. So that's what I went for. I didn't realize he > did interpretations until he started telling me my life (and previous > lives). I would have had to argue with him for that. Most of the jyotishis I know who went to see him were disappointed he asked for the chart information. K.N. Rao had told us that Karve could do the charts by intuition. Sometimes doing astrology is just a cover for using intuition for a reading. Some clients want a chart reading so an intuitive will print out a chart and act like they are doing an interpretation from it. However Karve's interpretation was pretty true to rules regarding my chart. Some folks here mentioned that the amateurs were telling them that they would become rich. I was told I would have a wealthy wife. I don't have a horoscope for marriage however many of my girlfriends were from wealthy families (and they came after me not me them). As some master jyotishis said, "you don't have a horoscope for marriage, have flings instead." :-D
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
Vaj wrote: > > On Jan 2, 2009, at 12:31 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: > >> In magic there is a world of difference between "The magician NEVER >> touched the deck of cards" before he spelled out my name with the >> cards to reveal my chosen card and "Well, he touched the deck BEFORE >> the trick started,but that doesn't count." Only someone trained to >> notice this difference can sometimes catch it from an expert. Our >> mind also has the natural tendency to shape our experiences when we >> retell them just a tad. And that small difference can make all the >> difference. > > > I knew it! The ancient science of card tricks came from the Ved! (of > course they used Vedic palm leaves). There is a book of Nadi Astrology that has some of the palm leaf charts. It appears to me that a bunch of pundits went through as an exercise about every possible combination of planets in signs and made interpretations based on that. Then an astrologer can add to that if he knows the ascendant by doing house interpretations. Notice that Barry didn't answer my question which might even "imply" an answer. ;-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > What he seems to be doing is claiming AFTER THE > > FACT AND WITH NO POSSIBILITY OF PROOF > > that he "knew" that my friend's medical condition > > was that she was pregnant. > > > > I think that's total bullshit. > > Barry, I thought your initial challenge to John's Jyotish abilities > was a set up for a smack down. You recovered some credibility when you > offered a blind test, but I was still skeptical you might pull a fast > one by posting the Jyotish of one of your dogs. Sorry for doubting > you, but we haven't been on friendly terms from the git-go. I admire > your writing abilities minus the nasty crap and that's the best > compliment I can muster for today. > > I'd like to see another Jyotish test that has fairness and integrity > on both sides of the challenge. Yes, John dropped the ball while > protecting his own, but he was understandably suspicious of knives at > the ready. Jyotish has been around for a long time, you'd think it > would have been tested plenty already. I really want to know if it's > any better than reading tea leaves or Tarot. > Hey, RaunchD Barry has just confirmed in more explicit words what he thought of my comment to do.reflex in his private email to me. I was rather surprised that he reacted with such venom in his last post. It is revealing as to how much his animosity can reach when anyone mentions anything about vedic sciences or any gurus from that tradition. Nonetheless, there is story in the Shrimad Bhagavatam that essentially states that one's hatred for anyone or subject is really proportionate to how much that person thinks about the other person or subject. Thus, in the end, the hater merges with the object of hatred. JR
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
On Jan 2, 2009, at 12:31 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: In magic there is a world of difference between "The magician NEVER touched the deck of cards" before he spelled out my name with the cards to reveal my chosen card and "Well, he touched the deck BEFORE the trick started,but that doesn't count." Only someone trained to notice this difference can sometimes catch it from an expert. Our mind also has the natural tendency to shape our experiences when we retell them just a tad. And that small difference can make all the difference. I knew it! The ancient science of card tricks came from the Ved! (of course they used Vedic palm leaves).
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
On Jan 2, 2009, at 12:35 PM, Bhairitu wrote: Vaj wrote: I've stayed out of this jyotish test question, but what I'd offer up as evidence that Jyotish is an actual "consciousness-based" reality that can determine physical outcomes is that one or more of the non-believers, say Curtis or Barry or whoever who wants to have their limits stretched, should have a Jyotish reading done by Yogi Karvay. Yogi Karvay asked for no birth data. He places his attention on you, goes into samadhi and as he comes in and out of his transcendence, he reads off all the planets, to the degree, as the actually appeared in the sky and gives your exact birth date and time without ever knowing anything about you. I know because not only has he done mine, he's also done friends of mine. Spot on every time. He predicted Nehru's life when he was in jail and it all turned out as predicted. And Nehru hated astrologers. Depending on special circumstances he may or may not to do detailed predictions. But suffice to say, his descriptions of my life literally took my breath away. After he does your reading, he'll initiate you into the sadhana to gain the siddhi as well. Karve asked for my birth date and time as he has others. It is really a mental trick. You memorize some charts throughout time and you'll will generally know the positions of most planets. The one that is almost impossible to do is the Moon. And I don't think he ever mentioned the position of the Moon in my chart. You can also from time and location get a good idea of what the ascendant also aided by the appearance of the person. What Karve did well was his interpretation. He was spot on with what my chart brought to me and the disappointments I'd had in life. Many of the amateurs had missed those things. You blew it. You shouldn't have given it. Yes, he will ask some people. That's the only way you'd know. He guessed my moon exactly, to the degree--there was a pause between cognizing the "house" and the degree. As he gave off each, I wrote them down in my diary. He helped a friend who's moon was on the cusp rectify the correct house. No birth date or time was given. None. Of course I'm sure he can do it either way (with or without the birth time). I knew little of him at the time, as I thought all he did was rectify birth times. So that's what I went for. I didn't realize he did interpretations until he started telling me my life (and previous lives).
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
Vaj wrote: > > On Jan 2, 2009, at 11:16 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote: > >> So what does this guy charge? > > > It cost me a 100 dollars but I was told I could give what I could afford. "Recommended donation." ;-) IOW, getting around the need for some kind of work permit in the US.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
> Oh ok, it may be history. Last I heard he was in Scranton PA in 2006. I grew up right near there and visit the area a few times a year. This would be a great FFL field trip adventure! Let me know if you have any more detailed contact info. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > On Jan 2, 2009, at 11:35 AM, Hugo wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > >> > >> > >> On Jan 2, 2009, at 11:14 AM, Hugo wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> I'm game, how do we go about meeting the man? > >> > >> > >> Sign up for his email announcement list. If you're going to India > > I'd > >> try to contact the moderator. > >> > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Yogi_Karve/ > >> > > > > > > We've been here before Vaj, this site is defunct but I'm still > > a member from the last time the great FFL Jyotish debate occured. > > Any newer contact details, the last message on that sirte was in > > 2004. > > Oh ok, it may be history. Last I heard he was in Scranton PA in 2006. > > > > > I'd love to have my view of everything overturned but it would have > > to be good, if the guy talks to you first there could be all sorts of > > cold reading going on. Or if you have to fill out any forms at all > > I'de be suspicious. > > > > So how does he actually do it? Does he have an open door so I > > could just walk in? > > > He spends most of his day in worship and then around 8 or 9 he comes > out of worship and does a few readings. You just wait for him to > finish and then he comes out and does the reading. A reading consists > of him slipping off into samadhi breifly and coming back out again. > That includes "retrieving" your birth data and any questions you ask. > > In truly enlightened teachers, they can read you the same way. My > grandteacher was that way. People were often afraid as he could just > tell you the day you would die, etc. He was not a reader per se, but > since other yogis knew he was omniscient, they would sometimes > intercede and ask questions for people. As with any chaotic event, > i.e. a question about an event embedded in the shifting > circumstances, one can change circumstances. So things can change, > they are not absolute predictions. >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
Vaj wrote: > > I've stayed out of this jyotish test question, but what I'd offer up > as evidence that Jyotish is an actual "consciousness-based" reality > that can determine physical outcomes is that one or more of the > non-believers, say Curtis or Barry or whoever who wants to have their > limits stretched, should have a Jyotish reading done by Yogi Karvay. > > Yogi Karvay asked for no birth data. He places his attention on you, > goes into samadhi and as he comes in and out of his transcendence, he > reads off all the planets, to the degree, as the actually appeared in > the sky and gives your exact birth date and time without ever knowing > anything about you. I know because not only has he done mine, he's > also done friends of mine. Spot on every time. He predicted Nehru's > life when he was in jail and it all turned out as predicted. And Nehru > hated astrologers. Depending on special circumstances he may or may > not to do detailed predictions. But suffice to say, his descriptions > of my life literally took my breath away. > > After he does your reading, he'll initiate you into the sadhana to > gain the siddhi as well. Karve asked for my birth date and time as he has others. It is really a mental trick. You memorize some charts throughout time and you'll will generally know the positions of most planets. The one that is almost impossible to do is the Moon. And I don't think he ever mentioned the position of the Moon in my chart. You can also from time and location get a good idea of what the ascendant also aided by the appearance of the person. What Karve did well was his interpretation. He was spot on with what my chart brought to me and the disappointments I'd had in life. Many of the amateurs had missed those things.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
> > Same with the Surya Samhita Jyotishis, which are often written on > palms leaves and hundreds of years old: these had to be written by > someone who was omniscient in some way, there's simply no way around > it. How else could they just know these things about you? I certainly > can't think of a way. In one case a female friend, alleged to be a > reincarnation of a Hindu saint, but an American, went to a Surya > Samhita reader. After going thru the various criteria, he arrived at > her "leaf". Now she had presented with her "Swami" name and no longer > used her birth name. The leaf had her name in English on it. I shit > you not. How is that possible? Having studied magical illusions and particularly mental magic I can think of numerous ways to do this trick. That is one of the problems with this kind of test. You need a person trained in magic tricks which is why James Randi insists on this for all psychic tests. I'm not saying that I know that the person doesn't have a special ability, but just that if she hadn't studied how such tricks are done she didn't have a chance. Honestly even when you know how a trick is done a great magician can blow you away with the same trick you do yourself just by a higher level of timing. In magic there is a world of difference between "The magician NEVER touched the deck of cards" before he spelled out my name with the cards to reveal my chosen card and "Well, he touched the deck BEFORE the trick started,but that doesn't count." Only someone trained to notice this difference can sometimes catch it from an expert. Our mind also has the natural tendency to shape our experiences when we retell them just a tad. And that small difference can make all the difference. But I respect that you were impressed with the guy so I would be up to learn more, short of going to India that is! > > > > >> > >> After he does your reading, he'll initiate you into the sadhana to > >> gain the siddhi as well. > > > > Could you do it for us? Do you have the sidhi? I think it is cool > > that you found someone you were impressed with and would be interested > > in reading about him. > > I have not practiced the sadhana and in fact I didn't even want it. > He INSISTED I have it, so I sat there while he initiated me into the > sadhana. > > What I'd really like is a mole at the third eye like John Lennon had > in those pictures inside the White Album, but so far that siddhi has > alluded me. >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
On Jan 2, 2009, at 11:16 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote: So what does this guy charge? It cost me a 100 dollars but I was told I could give what I could afford.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
On Jan 2, 2009, at 11:35 AM, Hugo wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: On Jan 2, 2009, at 11:14 AM, Hugo wrote: I'm game, how do we go about meeting the man? Sign up for his email announcement list. If you're going to India I'd try to contact the moderator. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Yogi_Karve/ We've been here before Vaj, this site is defunct but I'm still a member from the last time the great FFL Jyotish debate occured. Any newer contact details, the last message on that sirte was in 2004. Oh ok, it may be history. Last I heard he was in Scranton PA in 2006. I'd love to have my view of everything overturned but it would have to be good, if the guy talks to you first there could be all sorts of cold reading going on. Or if you have to fill out any forms at all I'de be suspicious. So how does he actually do it? Does he have an open door so I could just walk in? He spends most of his day in worship and then around 8 or 9 he comes out of worship and does a few readings. You just wait for him to finish and then he comes out and does the reading. A reading consists of him slipping off into samadhi breifly and coming back out again. That includes "retrieving" your birth data and any questions you ask. In truly enlightened teachers, they can read you the same way. My grandteacher was that way. People were often afraid as he could just tell you the day you would die, etc. He was not a reader per se, but since other yogis knew he was omniscient, they would sometimes intercede and ask questions for people. As with any chaotic event, i.e. a question about an event embedded in the shifting circumstances, one can change circumstances. So things can change, they are not absolute predictions.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
On Jan 2, 2009, at 11:16 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote: I've stayed out of this jyotish test question, but what I'd offer up as evidence that Jyotish is an actual "consciousness-based" reality that can determine physical outcomes is that one or more of the non- believers, say Curtis or Barry or whoever who wants to have their limits stretched, should have a Jyotish reading done by Yogi Karvay. I did a series of readings from some Maharishi Joitish guys as well as Chakrapani back in the day. They were cold readers mostly, giving "you'll be rich someday" predictions. So what does this guy charge? I would love to get my lack of belief shaken if it didn't cost too much. His website is down www.UniversalSociety.org Yeah I had a Chakrapani reading and others as well. It was like listening to the karmic weather. My take on these "standard jyotishis" for lack of a better word is that they rely on predictive rules from previous "Yogi Karvay's" who wrote down their insights based on their omniscience. These guys are just following the rules they learned from these systems and throwing in a little bit of intuition. Standard Parasara-style jyotish: learning and memorizing the rules. Same with the Surya Samhita Jyotishis, which are often written on palms leaves and hundreds of years old: these had to be written by someone who was omniscient in some way, there's simply no way around it. How else could they just know these things about you? I certainly can't think of a way. In one case a female friend, alleged to be a reincarnation of a Hindu saint, but an American, went to a Surya Samhita reader. After going thru the various criteria, he arrived at her "leaf". Now she had presented with her "Swami" name and no longer used her birth name. The leaf had her name in English on it. I shit you not. How is that possible? After he does your reading, he'll initiate you into the sadhana to gain the siddhi as well. Could you do it for us? Do you have the sidhi? I think it is cool that you found someone you were impressed with and would be interested in reading about him. I have not practiced the sadhana and in fact I didn't even want it. He INSISTED I have it, so I sat there while he initiated me into the sadhana. What I'd really like is a mole at the third eye like John Lennon had in those pictures inside the White Album, but so far that siddhi has alluded me.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > On Jan 2, 2009, at 11:14 AM, Hugo wrote: > > > > > I'm game, how do we go about meeting the man? > > > Sign up for his email announcement list. If you're going to India I'd > try to contact the moderator. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Yogi_Karve/ > We've been here before Vaj, this site is defunct but I'm still a member from the last time the great FFL Jyotish debate occured. Any newer contact details, the last message on that sirte was in 2004. I'd love to have my view of everything overturned but it would have to be good, if the guy talks to you first there could be all sorts of cold reading going on. Or if you have to fill out any forms at all I'de be suspicious. So how does he actually do it? Does he have an open door so I could just walk in?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
On Jan 2, 2009, at 11:14 AM, Hugo wrote: I'm game, how do we go about meeting the man? Sign up for his email announcement list. If you're going to India I'd try to contact the moderator. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Yogi_Karve/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
> > > I've stayed out of this jyotish test question, but what I'd offer up > as evidence that Jyotish is an actual "consciousness-based" reality > that can determine physical outcomes is that one or more of the non- > believers, say Curtis or Barry or whoever who wants to have their > limits stretched, should have a Jyotish reading done by Yogi Karvay. I did a series of readings from some Maharishi Joitish guys as well as Chakrapani back in the day. They were cold readers mostly, giving "you'll be rich someday" predictions. So what does this guy charge? I would love to get my lack of belief shaken if it didn't cost too much. His website is down www.UniversalSociety.org > > After he does your reading, he'll initiate you into the sadhana to > gain the siddhi as well. Could you do it for us? Do you have the sidhi? I think it is cool that you found someone you were impressed with and would be interested in reading about him. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > On Jan 2, 2009, at 10:50 AM, raunchydog wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > >> > >> What he seems to be doing is claiming AFTER THE > >> FACT AND WITH NO POSSIBILITY OF PROOF > >> that he "knew" that my friend's medical condition > >> was that she was pregnant. > >> > >> I think that's total bullshit. > > > > Barry, I thought your initial challenge to John's Jyotish abilities > > was a set up for a smack down. You recovered some credibility when you > > offered a blind test, but I was still skeptical you might pull a fast > > one by posting the Jyotish of one of your dogs. Sorry for doubting > > you, but we haven't been on friendly terms from the git-go. I admire > > your writing abilities minus the nasty crap and that's the best > > compliment I can muster for today. > > > > I'd like to see another Jyotish test that has fairness and integrity > > on both sides of the challenge. Yes, John dropped the ball while > > protecting his own, but he was understandably suspicious of knives at > > the ready. Jyotish has been around for a long time, you'd think it > > would have been tested plenty already. I really want to know if it's > > any better than reading tea leaves or Tarot. > > > I've stayed out of this jyotish test question, but what I'd offer up > as evidence that Jyotish is an actual "consciousness-based" reality > that can determine physical outcomes is that one or more of the non- > believers, say Curtis or Barry or whoever who wants to have their > limits stretched, should have a Jyotish reading done by Yogi Karvay. > > Yogi Karvay asked for no birth data. He places his attention on you, > goes into samadhi and as he comes in and out of his transcendence, he > reads off all the planets, to the degree, as the actually appeared in > the sky and gives your exact birth date and time without ever knowing > anything about you. I know because not only has he done mine, he's > also done friends of mine. Spot on every time. He predicted Nehru's > life when he was in jail and it all turned out as predicted. And > Nehru hated astrologers. Depending on special circumstances he may or > may not to do detailed predictions. But suffice to say, his > descriptions of my life literally took my breath away. > > After he does your reading, he'll initiate you into the sadhana to > gain the siddhi as well. > I'm game, how do we go about meeting the man?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > What he seems to be doing is claiming AFTER THE > > FACT AND WITH NO POSSIBILITY OF PROOF > > that he "knew" that my friend's medical condition > > was that she was pregnant. > > > > I think that's total bullshit. > > Barry, I thought your initial challenge to John's Jyotish abilities > was a set up for a smack down. You recovered some credibility when you > offered a blind test, but I was still skeptical you might pull a fast > one by posting the Jyotish of one of your dogs. Is there any reason jyotish wouldn't work for a dog? Mine seems to pick a different coloured ball for me to throw from her vast collection every day, maybe it's all governed by the transits of mercury or something. I should draw up a graph of what she chooses and see if a pattern emerges. But I'm teasing of course > I'd like to see another Jyotish test that has fairness and integrity > on both sides of the challenge. so would I. And, as I might have mentioned, am always ready to take part. Someone will pick up the gauntlet. Yes, John dropped the ball while > protecting his own, but he was understandably suspicious of knives at > the ready. Jyotish has been around for a long time, you'd think it > would have been tested plenty already. I really want to know if it's > any better than reading tea leaves or Tarot. I would say they work in exactly the same way and the more into it you are the more likely you will create what the reading fortells. I think we all create in our lives what we subconsciously expect to happen, perhaps a reading would let someone think in a different way about the choices they face. But then the TMO claims to be able to see returning karma in your chart and precribe you a very expensive yagya to cure it. This is something I'd like to see a proper test of as it's a bold claim and very lucrative. I think it's complete nonsense at worst and a placebo at best.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" wrote: > > Nice post Raunchy. I appreciate any attempt by the interesting > writers in this group to build bridges. > > I also think that such a test would be interesting and even without > being definitive, it would provoke plenty of worthwhile thought on > both sides of the belief fence. Warm Fuzzies to you as well, Curtis. Happy New Year.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
On Jan 2, 2009, at 10:50 AM, raunchydog wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: What he seems to be doing is claiming AFTER THE FACT AND WITH NO POSSIBILITY OF PROOF that he "knew" that my friend's medical condition was that she was pregnant. I think that's total bullshit. Barry, I thought your initial challenge to John's Jyotish abilities was a set up for a smack down. You recovered some credibility when you offered a blind test, but I was still skeptical you might pull a fast one by posting the Jyotish of one of your dogs. Sorry for doubting you, but we haven't been on friendly terms from the git-go. I admire your writing abilities minus the nasty crap and that's the best compliment I can muster for today. I'd like to see another Jyotish test that has fairness and integrity on both sides of the challenge. Yes, John dropped the ball while protecting his own, but he was understandably suspicious of knives at the ready. Jyotish has been around for a long time, you'd think it would have been tested plenty already. I really want to know if it's any better than reading tea leaves or Tarot. I've stayed out of this jyotish test question, but what I'd offer up as evidence that Jyotish is an actual "consciousness-based" reality that can determine physical outcomes is that one or more of the non- believers, say Curtis or Barry or whoever who wants to have their limits stretched, should have a Jyotish reading done by Yogi Karvay. Yogi Karvay asked for no birth data. He places his attention on you, goes into samadhi and as he comes in and out of his transcendence, he reads off all the planets, to the degree, as the actually appeared in the sky and gives your exact birth date and time without ever knowing anything about you. I know because not only has he done mine, he's also done friends of mine. Spot on every time. He predicted Nehru's life when he was in jail and it all turned out as predicted. And Nehru hated astrologers. Depending on special circumstances he may or may not to do detailed predictions. But suffice to say, his descriptions of my life literally took my breath away. After he does your reading, he'll initiate you into the sadhana to gain the siddhi as well.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
Nice post Raunchy. I appreciate any attempt by the interesting writers in this group to build bridges. I also think that such a test would be interesting and even without being definitive, it would provoke plenty of worthwhile thought on both sides of the belief fence. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > What he seems to be doing is claiming AFTER THE > > FACT AND WITH NO POSSIBILITY OF PROOF > > that he "knew" that my friend's medical condition > > was that she was pregnant. > > > > I think that's total bullshit. > > Barry, I thought your initial challenge to John's Jyotish abilities > was a set up for a smack down. You recovered some credibility when you > offered a blind test, but I was still skeptical you might pull a fast > one by posting the Jyotish of one of your dogs. Sorry for doubting > you, but we haven't been on friendly terms from the git-go. I admire > your writing abilities minus the nasty crap and that's the best > compliment I can muster for today. > > I'd like to see another Jyotish test that has fairness and integrity > on both sides of the challenge. Yes, John dropped the ball while > protecting his own, but he was understandably suspicious of knives at > the ready. Jyotish has been around for a long time, you'd think it > would have been tested plenty already. I really want to know if it's > any better than reading tea leaves or Tarot. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > What he seems to be doing is claiming AFTER THE > FACT AND WITH NO POSSIBILITY OF PROOF > that he "knew" that my friend's medical condition > was that she was pregnant. > > I think that's total bullshit. Barry, I thought your initial challenge to John's Jyotish abilities was a set up for a smack down. You recovered some credibility when you offered a blind test, but I was still skeptical you might pull a fast one by posting the Jyotish of one of your dogs. Sorry for doubting you, but we haven't been on friendly terms from the git-go. I admire your writing abilities minus the nasty crap and that's the best compliment I can muster for today. I'd like to see another Jyotish test that has fairness and integrity on both sides of the challenge. Yes, John dropped the ball while protecting his own, but he was understandably suspicious of knives at the ready. Jyotish has been around for a long time, you'd think it would have been tested plenty already. I really want to know if it's any better than reading tea leaves or Tarot.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John" wrote: > > > > > > Barry, > > > > > > I knew that even before you typed the email to the moderators. > > > > > > JR > > > > > > John, what specifically did you know -before- Barry "typed > > the email to the moderators"? > > > Ask Barry. He knows it and he can confirm it. John in Brazil, I really, really hate to use up my last post of the week dealing with horseshit like this, but since JohnR has chosen to act like a low-life scumbag, I must. I have no earthly idea what JohnR is talking about. What he seems to be doing is claiming AFTER THE FACT AND WITH NO POSSIBILITY OF PROOF that he "knew" that my friend's medical condition was that she was pregnant. I think that's total bullshit. I offered him an opportunity to prove or disprove his contention that Jyotish is a science and he replied once and *only* once to this group, coming up with excuses for why he probably wouldn't participate in my test, and then ending by saying that he "might" post to the group if he saw some- thing interesting in the chart. He never made such a post. He never sent anything to me in email. Basically, as far as I can tell, what he is doing now is lying. Worse, he's lying in the same way that Lou Valentino lies. Lou has a proven history of making "predictions" on his website and claiming that they are "85% accurate" and then going back later and 1) EDITING the previous predictions to take out the things that were incorrect, and 2) DELETING all the old predictions so that no one can check up on his claims of "accuracy." In other words, Lou is a charlatan. I was willing to give JohnR a break and suggest only that he had no balls for not participating in my little test. That would have been an improvement over what he's trying to do now. Now he's *claiming* that he "knew" something. Well, if he really "knew" it, he was afraid to post it to the group, wasn't he. Bottom line of that is that he has no balls. If he *didn't* know anything, and is now claiming to have only to protect his own rep as a Jyotishi and Jyotish itself, again there is the same bottom line -- no balls. I really did give the guy a chance. And this is what he does with it. I think that the conclusion that any thinking person should draw from this is that Jyotish is a crock of shit *and* that its practitioners like JohnR *know* that it's a crock of shit. In other words, they are charlatans. If JohnR feels differently, and cares to dispute this, there is only one way to do so -- put his "predictions" to the test. Allow me or someone else to propose another "blind test" and this time follow through with it and post his analysis of the chart in question. That's what a person who had balls would do. I expect JohnR to whine and lie instead. > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > wrote: > > > > > > > > Since it appears that JohnR is not going to > > > > respond to my challenge with his analysis of > > > > my friend's medical condition as indicated in > > > > her Jyotish chart, and I want to finish up my > > > > participation in all existing threads on FFL > > > > before the new year starts, I will post the > > > > answer. > > > > > > > > ( It goes without saying that any subsequent > > > > attempts by JohnR or any other Jyotishi to > > > > say, "Oh, I saw that in the chart, but I was > > > > just late in posting my response" should be > > > > greeted with howls of derisive laughter. :-) > > > > > > > > The medical issue my friend is dealing with is > > > > called being pregnant. > > > > > > > > Other than that simple and fairly common medical > > > > issue, she is 100% healthy. Her doctors, both > > > > allopathic and from the world of alternative > > > > medicine, believe that she will have a normal > > > > home birth, but just in case, arrangements have > > > > been made by the midwives at a nearby hospital > > > > in case she requires surgery. We all hope that > > > > isn't necessary. > > > > > > > > Below is the text I sent to the FFL moderators. > > > > The only thing I changed in it was to delete > > > > my friend's last name (for privacy, and to keep > > > > stalkers away from her) and to insert the word > > > > "best" in front of "friend," because she really > > > > is my best friend. I'm heading off in a few min- > > > > utes to spend the rest of the year with her, > > > > even though that'll only be five hours. :-) > > > > > > > > Had JohnR analyzed the chart and posted that he > > > > "found" indicators of disease, that would have > > > > been partly because I described her condition as > > > > a medical issue. Well, duh, it is. Giving birth > > > > IS a medical issue, and never a 100% safe one. > > > > But IMO the only reason he would have "found" > > > > indicators of disease in her chart would have been > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John" wrote: > > > > Barry, > > > > I knew that even before you typed the email to the moderators. > > > > JR > > > > John, what specifically did you know -before- Barry "typed the email > to the moderators"? > Ask Barry. He knows it and he can confirm it. > > > > > PS > > > > Feliz Navidad y Prospero Ano Nuevo! > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > Since it appears that JohnR is not going to > > > respond to my challenge with his analysis of > > > my friend's medical condition as indicated in > > > her Jyotish chart, and I want to finish up my > > > participation in all existing threads on FFL > > > before the new year starts, I will post the > > > answer. > > > > > > ( It goes without saying that any subsequent > > > attempts by JohnR or any other Jyotishi to > > > say, "Oh, I saw that in the chart, but I was > > > just late in posting my response" should be > > > greeted with howls of derisive laughter. :-) > > > > > > The medical issue my friend is dealing with is > > > called being pregnant. > > > > > > Other than that simple and fairly common medical > > > issue, she is 100% healthy. Her doctors, both > > > allopathic and from the world of alternative > > > medicine, believe that she will have a normal > > > home birth, but just in case, arrangements have > > > been made by the midwives at a nearby hospital > > > in case she requires surgery. We all hope that > > > isn't necessary. > > > > > > Below is the text I sent to the FFL moderators. > > > The only thing I changed in it was to delete > > > my friend's last name (for privacy, and to keep > > > stalkers away from her) and to insert the word > > > "best" in front of "friend," because she really > > > is my best friend. I'm heading off in a few min- > > > utes to spend the rest of the year with her, > > > even though that'll only be five hours. :-) > > > > > > Had JohnR analyzed the chart and posted that he > > > "found" indicators of disease, that would have > > > been partly because I described her condition as > > > a medical issue. Well, duh, it is. Giving birth > > > IS a medical issue, and never a 100% safe one. > > > But IMO the only reason he would have "found" > > > indicators of disease in her chart would have been > > > because *he was looking for them*, and projecting > > > them onto a chart in which they did not appear. > > > > > > Similarly, when Judy and Raunchydog accused me > > > of violating my friend's privacy by making her > > > medical condition public, they were *looking for > > > things to demonize me with*, and projecting them > > > onto the situation in the form of the bogus > > > "privacy" straw man. Please join me in laughing > > > at their attempts to portray me as a Bad Guy for > > > violating my friend's "medical privacy." It's > > > hard to *miss* the medical condition of someone > > > who is eight and a half months pregnant; keeping > > > it private is just not an option unless you are > > > wearing a tent. :-) > > > > > > The original letter to the FFL moderators follows, > > > in case someone actually wants them to confirm that > > > this is what I sent to them earlier. As noted > > > above, the only thing in it I have changed is to > > > delete my friend's last name out of concern that > > > one or more TBs here would start stalking her the > > > same way that they stalk me and Vaj and Paul Mason > > > and John Knapp and others who have dared to be > > > critical of TM or its ludicrous "extra added cost" > > > products like Jyotish. > > > > > > I still think that this would have been an interest- > > > ing test, if JohnR had had the cojones to respond > > > to it. But he didn't. I think that speaks for itself > > > about the depth of *his* belief in the accuracy and > > > efficacy of Jyotish. > > > > > > But the interesting test that DID take place was > > > how a few TM True Believers here responded to the > > > idea of Jyotish being put to the test. If John's > > > lack of a response speaks volumes, theirs fills > > > libraries. > > > > > > Happy New Year, > > > > > > Unc/Turq/Barry > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > Sent to Rick, Alex, and gullible_fool: > > > > > > As mentioned on FFL, I am challenging JohnR to > > > use the birth data below to pinpoint the nature > > > of the medical condition that my friend is deal- > > > ing with. > > > > > > The birth data: > > > > > > Born: Suffern, New York, USA > > > September 18, 1965 18:06 (6:06 p.m.) > > > > > > The person, and their medical condition: > > > > > > This is the birth data for my best friend Laurel, > > > who is very, very pregnant and about to give birth. > > > Both medical doctors and alternative care providers > > > have assured her that all is perfectly fine with > > > the pre
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John" wrote: > > Barry, > > I knew that even before you typed the email to the moderators. > > JR John, what specifically did you know -before- Barry "typed the email to the moderators"? > > PS > > Feliz Navidad y Prospero Ano Nuevo! > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > Since it appears that JohnR is not going to > > respond to my challenge with his analysis of > > my friend's medical condition as indicated in > > her Jyotish chart, and I want to finish up my > > participation in all existing threads on FFL > > before the new year starts, I will post the > > answer. > > > > ( It goes without saying that any subsequent > > attempts by JohnR or any other Jyotishi to > > say, "Oh, I saw that in the chart, but I was > > just late in posting my response" should be > > greeted with howls of derisive laughter. :-) > > > > The medical issue my friend is dealing with is > > called being pregnant. > > > > Other than that simple and fairly common medical > > issue, she is 100% healthy. Her doctors, both > > allopathic and from the world of alternative > > medicine, believe that she will have a normal > > home birth, but just in case, arrangements have > > been made by the midwives at a nearby hospital > > in case she requires surgery. We all hope that > > isn't necessary. > > > > Below is the text I sent to the FFL moderators. > > The only thing I changed in it was to delete > > my friend's last name (for privacy, and to keep > > stalkers away from her) and to insert the word > > "best" in front of "friend," because she really > > is my best friend. I'm heading off in a few min- > > utes to spend the rest of the year with her, > > even though that'll only be five hours. :-) > > > > Had JohnR analyzed the chart and posted that he > > "found" indicators of disease, that would have > > been partly because I described her condition as > > a medical issue. Well, duh, it is. Giving birth > > IS a medical issue, and never a 100% safe one. > > But IMO the only reason he would have "found" > > indicators of disease in her chart would have been > > because *he was looking for them*, and projecting > > them onto a chart in which they did not appear. > > > > Similarly, when Judy and Raunchydog accused me > > of violating my friend's privacy by making her > > medical condition public, they were *looking for > > things to demonize me with*, and projecting them > > onto the situation in the form of the bogus > > "privacy" straw man. Please join me in laughing > > at their attempts to portray me as a Bad Guy for > > violating my friend's "medical privacy." It's > > hard to *miss* the medical condition of someone > > who is eight and a half months pregnant; keeping > > it private is just not an option unless you are > > wearing a tent. :-) > > > > The original letter to the FFL moderators follows, > > in case someone actually wants them to confirm that > > this is what I sent to them earlier. As noted > > above, the only thing in it I have changed is to > > delete my friend's last name out of concern that > > one or more TBs here would start stalking her the > > same way that they stalk me and Vaj and Paul Mason > > and John Knapp and others who have dared to be > > critical of TM or its ludicrous "extra added cost" > > products like Jyotish. > > > > I still think that this would have been an interest- > > ing test, if JohnR had had the cojones to respond > > to it. But he didn't. I think that speaks for itself > > about the depth of *his* belief in the accuracy and > > efficacy of Jyotish. > > > > But the interesting test that DID take place was > > how a few TM True Believers here responded to the > > idea of Jyotish being put to the test. If John's > > lack of a response speaks volumes, theirs fills > > libraries. > > > > Happy New Year, > > > > Unc/Turq/Barry > > > > > > *** > > > > Sent to Rick, Alex, and gullible_fool: > > > > As mentioned on FFL, I am challenging JohnR to > > use the birth data below to pinpoint the nature > > of the medical condition that my friend is deal- > > ing with. > > > > The birth data: > > > > Born: Suffern, New York, USA > > September 18, 1965 18:06 (6:06 p.m.) > > > > The person, and their medical condition: > > > > This is the birth data for my best friend Laurel, > > who is very, very pregnant and about to give birth. > > Both medical doctors and alternative care providers > > have assured her that all is perfectly fine with > > the pregnancy, and that there is no danger to either > > mother or (soon) daughter. A normal birth is planned, > > but as I said there is the possibility of required > > surgery if things don't go as planned. > > > > As I understand Jyotish, *if it works* John should > > have no problem with noticing this medical condition > > in her chart, even if I did not specify the
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" wrote: > -snip- > > > As I understand Jyotish, *if it works* John should > > > have no problem with noticing this medical condition > > > in her chart, even if I did not specify the sex of > > > the person. In fact another Jyotish practitioner > > > DID, in fact, predict the pregnancy from her chart > > > a year before it happened. She wasn't trying to > > > get pregnant. > > Dang, Barry. I was sure you were going to put one of your dogs up for > the Jyotish test. My bad. Anyway, have a Happy New Year. > oops, he did- a blue ribbon winner- and she's pregnant too! awesome B. you da man!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
raunchydog wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John" wrote: > >> Barry, >> >> I knew that even before you typed the email to the moderators. >> >> JR >> >> PS >> >> Feliz Navidad y Prospero Ano Nuevo! >> >> >> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: >> >>> Since it appears that JohnR is not going to >>> respond to my challenge with his analysis of >>> my friend's medical condition as indicated in >>> her Jyotish chart, and I want to finish up my >>> participation in all existing threads on FFL >>> before the new year starts, I will post the >>> answer. >>> >>> ( It goes without saying that any subsequent >>> attempts by JohnR or any other Jyotishi to >>> say, "Oh, I saw that in the chart, but I was >>> just late in posting my response" should be >>> greeted with howls of derisive laughter. :-) >>> >>> The medical issue my friend is dealing with is >>> called being pregnant. >>> >>> Other than that simple and fairly common medical >>> issue, she is 100% healthy. Her doctors, both >>> allopathic and from the world of alternative >>> medicine, believe that she will have a normal >>> home birth, but just in case, arrangements have >>> been made by the midwives at a nearby hospital >>> in case she requires surgery. We all hope that >>> isn't necessary. >>> >>> Below is the text I sent to the FFL moderators. >>> The only thing I changed in it was to delete >>> my friend's last name (for privacy, and to keep >>> stalkers away from her) and to insert the word >>> "best" in front of "friend," because she really >>> is my best friend. I'm heading off in a few min- >>> utes to spend the rest of the year with her, >>> even though that'll only be five hours. :-) >>> >>> Had JohnR analyzed the chart and posted that he >>> "found" indicators of disease, that would have >>> been partly because I described her condition as >>> a medical issue. Well, duh, it is. Giving birth >>> IS a medical issue, and never a 100% safe one. >>> But IMO the only reason he would have "found" >>> indicators of disease in her chart would have been >>> because *he was looking for them*, and projecting >>> them onto a chart in which they did not appear. >>> >>> Similarly, when Judy and Raunchydog accused me >>> of violating my friend's privacy by making her >>> medical condition public, they were *looking for >>> things to demonize me with*, and projecting them >>> onto the situation in the form of the bogus >>> "privacy" straw man. Please join me in laughing >>> at their attempts to portray me as a Bad Guy for >>> violating my friend's "medical privacy." It's >>> hard to *miss* the medical condition of someone >>> who is eight and a half months pregnant; keeping >>> it private is just not an option unless you are >>> wearing a tent. :-) >>> >>> The original letter to the FFL moderators follows, >>> in case someone actually wants them to confirm that >>> this is what I sent to them earlier. As noted >>> above, the only thing in it I have changed is to >>> delete my friend's last name out of concern that >>> one or more TBs here would start stalking her the >>> same way that they stalk me and Vaj and Paul Mason >>> and John Knapp and others who have dared to be >>> critical of TM or its ludicrous "extra added cost" >>> products like Jyotish. >>> >>> I still think that this would have been an interest- >>> ing test, if JohnR had had the cojones to respond >>> to it. But he didn't. I think that speaks for itself >>> about the depth of *his* belief in the accuracy and >>> efficacy of Jyotish. >>> >>> But the interesting test that DID take place was >>> how a few TM True Believers here responded to the >>> idea of Jyotish being put to the test. If John's >>> lack of a response speaks volumes, theirs fills >>> libraries. >>> >>> Happy New Year, >>> >>> Unc/Turq/Barry >>> >>> >>> *** >>> >>> Sent to Rick, Alex, and gullible_fool: >>> >>> As mentioned on FFL, I am challenging JohnR to >>> use the birth data below to pinpoint the nature >>> of the medical condition that my friend is deal- >>> ing with. >>> >>> The birth data: >>> >>> Born: Suffern, New York, USA >>> September 18, 1965 18:06 (6:06 p.m.) >>> >>> The person, and their medical condition: >>> >>> This is the birth data for my best friend Laurel, >>> who is very, very pregnant and about to give birth. >>> Both medical doctors and alternative care providers >>> have assured her that all is perfectly fine with >>> the pregnancy, and that there is no danger to either >>> mother or (soon) daughter. A normal birth is planned, >>> but as I said there is the possibility of required >>> surgery if things don't go as planned. >>> >>> As I understand Jyotish, *if it works* John should >>> have no problem with noticing this medical condition >>> in her chart, even if I did not specify the sex of >>> the person. In fact another Jyotish practitioner >>> DID, in fact, pr
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John" wrote: > > Barry, > > I knew that even before you typed the email to the moderators. > > JR > > PS > > Feliz Navidad y Prospero Ano Nuevo! > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > Since it appears that JohnR is not going to > > respond to my challenge with his analysis of > > my friend's medical condition as indicated in > > her Jyotish chart, and I want to finish up my > > participation in all existing threads on FFL > > before the new year starts, I will post the > > answer. > > > > ( It goes without saying that any subsequent > > attempts by JohnR or any other Jyotishi to > > say, "Oh, I saw that in the chart, but I was > > just late in posting my response" should be > > greeted with howls of derisive laughter. :-) > > > > The medical issue my friend is dealing with is > > called being pregnant. > > > > Other than that simple and fairly common medical > > issue, she is 100% healthy. Her doctors, both > > allopathic and from the world of alternative > > medicine, believe that she will have a normal > > home birth, but just in case, arrangements have > > been made by the midwives at a nearby hospital > > in case she requires surgery. We all hope that > > isn't necessary. > > > > Below is the text I sent to the FFL moderators. > > The only thing I changed in it was to delete > > my friend's last name (for privacy, and to keep > > stalkers away from her) and to insert the word > > "best" in front of "friend," because she really > > is my best friend. I'm heading off in a few min- > > utes to spend the rest of the year with her, > > even though that'll only be five hours. :-) > > > > Had JohnR analyzed the chart and posted that he > > "found" indicators of disease, that would have > > been partly because I described her condition as > > a medical issue. Well, duh, it is. Giving birth > > IS a medical issue, and never a 100% safe one. > > But IMO the only reason he would have "found" > > indicators of disease in her chart would have been > > because *he was looking for them*, and projecting > > them onto a chart in which they did not appear. > > > > Similarly, when Judy and Raunchydog accused me > > of violating my friend's privacy by making her > > medical condition public, they were *looking for > > things to demonize me with*, and projecting them > > onto the situation in the form of the bogus > > "privacy" straw man. Please join me in laughing > > at their attempts to portray me as a Bad Guy for > > violating my friend's "medical privacy." It's > > hard to *miss* the medical condition of someone > > who is eight and a half months pregnant; keeping > > it private is just not an option unless you are > > wearing a tent. :-) > > > > The original letter to the FFL moderators follows, > > in case someone actually wants them to confirm that > > this is what I sent to them earlier. As noted > > above, the only thing in it I have changed is to > > delete my friend's last name out of concern that > > one or more TBs here would start stalking her the > > same way that they stalk me and Vaj and Paul Mason > > and John Knapp and others who have dared to be > > critical of TM or its ludicrous "extra added cost" > > products like Jyotish. > > > > I still think that this would have been an interest- > > ing test, if JohnR had had the cojones to respond > > to it. But he didn't. I think that speaks for itself > > about the depth of *his* belief in the accuracy and > > efficacy of Jyotish. > > > > But the interesting test that DID take place was > > how a few TM True Believers here responded to the > > idea of Jyotish being put to the test. If John's > > lack of a response speaks volumes, theirs fills > > libraries. > > > > Happy New Year, > > > > Unc/Turq/Barry > > > > > > *** > > > > Sent to Rick, Alex, and gullible_fool: > > > > As mentioned on FFL, I am challenging JohnR to > > use the birth data below to pinpoint the nature > > of the medical condition that my friend is deal- > > ing with. > > > > The birth data: > > > > Born: Suffern, New York, USA > > September 18, 1965 18:06 (6:06 p.m.) > > > > The person, and their medical condition: > > > > This is the birth data for my best friend Laurel, > > who is very, very pregnant and about to give birth. > > Both medical doctors and alternative care providers > > have assured her that all is perfectly fine with > > the pregnancy, and that there is no danger to either > > mother or (soon) daughter. A normal birth is planned, > > but as I said there is the possibility of required > > surgery if things don't go as planned. > > > > As I understand Jyotish, *if it works* John should > > have no problem with noticing this medical condition > > in her chart, even if I did not specify the sex of > > the person. In fact another Jyotish practitioner > > DID, in fact, predict the pre
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the "Jyotish Test"
Barry, I knew that even before you typed the email to the moderators. JR PS Feliz Navidad y Prospero Ano Nuevo! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > Since it appears that JohnR is not going to > respond to my challenge with his analysis of > my friend's medical condition as indicated in > her Jyotish chart, and I want to finish up my > participation in all existing threads on FFL > before the new year starts, I will post the > answer. > > ( It goes without saying that any subsequent > attempts by JohnR or any other Jyotishi to > say, "Oh, I saw that in the chart, but I was > just late in posting my response" should be > greeted with howls of derisive laughter. :-) > > The medical issue my friend is dealing with is > called being pregnant. > > Other than that simple and fairly common medical > issue, she is 100% healthy. Her doctors, both > allopathic and from the world of alternative > medicine, believe that she will have a normal > home birth, but just in case, arrangements have > been made by the midwives at a nearby hospital > in case she requires surgery. We all hope that > isn't necessary. > > Below is the text I sent to the FFL moderators. > The only thing I changed in it was to delete > my friend's last name (for privacy, and to keep > stalkers away from her) and to insert the word > "best" in front of "friend," because she really > is my best friend. I'm heading off in a few min- > utes to spend the rest of the year with her, > even though that'll only be five hours. :-) > > Had JohnR analyzed the chart and posted that he > "found" indicators of disease, that would have > been partly because I described her condition as > a medical issue. Well, duh, it is. Giving birth > IS a medical issue, and never a 100% safe one. > But IMO the only reason he would have "found" > indicators of disease in her chart would have been > because *he was looking for them*, and projecting > them onto a chart in which they did not appear. > > Similarly, when Judy and Raunchydog accused me > of violating my friend's privacy by making her > medical condition public, they were *looking for > things to demonize me with*, and projecting them > onto the situation in the form of the bogus > "privacy" straw man. Please join me in laughing > at their attempts to portray me as a Bad Guy for > violating my friend's "medical privacy." It's > hard to *miss* the medical condition of someone > who is eight and a half months pregnant; keeping > it private is just not an option unless you are > wearing a tent. :-) > > The original letter to the FFL moderators follows, > in case someone actually wants them to confirm that > this is what I sent to them earlier. As noted > above, the only thing in it I have changed is to > delete my friend's last name out of concern that > one or more TBs here would start stalking her the > same way that they stalk me and Vaj and Paul Mason > and John Knapp and others who have dared to be > critical of TM or its ludicrous "extra added cost" > products like Jyotish. > > I still think that this would have been an interest- > ing test, if JohnR had had the cojones to respond > to it. But he didn't. I think that speaks for itself > about the depth of *his* belief in the accuracy and > efficacy of Jyotish. > > But the interesting test that DID take place was > how a few TM True Believers here responded to the > idea of Jyotish being put to the test. If John's > lack of a response speaks volumes, theirs fills > libraries. > > Happy New Year, > > Unc/Turq/Barry > > > *** > > Sent to Rick, Alex, and gullible_fool: > > As mentioned on FFL, I am challenging JohnR to > use the birth data below to pinpoint the nature > of the medical condition that my friend is deal- > ing with. > > The birth data: > > Born: Suffern, New York, USA > September 18, 1965 18:06 (6:06 p.m.) > > The person, and their medical condition: > > This is the birth data for my best friend Laurel, > who is very, very pregnant and about to give birth. > Both medical doctors and alternative care providers > have assured her that all is perfectly fine with > the pregnancy, and that there is no danger to either > mother or (soon) daughter. A normal birth is planned, > but as I said there is the possibility of required > surgery if things don't go as planned. > > As I understand Jyotish, *if it works* John should > have no problem with noticing this medical condition > in her chart, even if I did not specify the sex of > the person. In fact another Jyotish practitioner > DID, in fact, predict the pregnancy from her chart > a year before it happened. She wasn't trying to > get pregnant. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: The answer as to the where abouts of Guru Dev's 'Spirit'...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: snip > Lovely. > > I think that's a wonderful insight into the nature > of omnipresence, as opposed to continued presence. > > One of the metaphors that the Rama guy I studied > with used that I always liked was "the teacher as > doorway." The enlightened teacher -- if that is > what you consider them to be -- is best viewed as > a doorway to the infinite. If he or she is living > the infinite on a daily basis, then when you look > at them you're really looking "through" them, to > what's really important. *They* are not important > at all, except *as* a doorway to the infinite. Nicely put, I recently heard a nice commentary on the role of the *guru* stating that when one rises about body consciousness the Master's (guru's) face appears to show you the way. The significance is the *familiarity* of the face which acts as a guide or an 'on ramp' if you wish to the Divine Spirit. > The problem that arises sometimes is that students > get fixated on the doorway, and forget to look > through it, to what is really important. Thus when > the doorway dies, they often find themselves look- > ing for the infinite in the form of something very > finite -- the teacher, the doorway -- when in > reality, it's everywhere and everything. Right on! > "I do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the > men of old; I seek the things they sought." > -- Basho
[FairfieldLife] Re: The answer as to the where abouts of Guru Dev's 'Spirit'...
---that's all true: (bodiless Enlightened Guru is everywhere); but so is everything else. The real question is, does the Guru still appear to people in a subtle body? Yes. In 1988 Guru Dev appeared to me in the dream state, in a brilliant vision, and initiated me into a Durga mantra. Jesus appears to people in visions and the dream state. So does Ramana Maharshi. Are these subtle bodies "real" compared to physical bodies. Yes, even more so!. One might say, these bodies are only holographic simulacra. That's what all bodies are anyway. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Mr. Magoo" wrote: > > > > Brahmachari 'Swami' Satyanand speaking c1967 about Guru Dev's > > 'nirvana',:- > > > > snip> > > just a half a minute or two seconds after, a flash came and it > > appeared to me that Guru Dev was scolding me; > > > > > > "What a fool you are! > > You have been with me for all these many months and years, and you > > heard my discourses too. > > Is it a moment of feeling sorry? > > Why should you be sorry today? > > And you think that I am gone, where am I gone? > > Till now whenever you wanted to meet me, you had, you had to come to > > the place where I was, and today when I have attained nirvana, I am > > everywhere, I am omnipresent. > > Where have I gone? > > Very foolish for you to mourn on this occasion. > > I am with you, here, there, everywhere. > > Why should you be sorry?" > > Lovely. > > I think that's a wonderful insight into the nature > of omnipresence, as opposed to continued presence. > > One of the metaphors that the Rama guy I studied > with used that I always liked was "the teacher as > doorway." The enlightened teacher -- if that is > what you consider them to be -- is best viewed as > a doorway to the infinite. If he or she is living > the infinite on a daily basis, then when you look > at them you're really looking "through" them, to > what's really important. *They* are not important > at all, except *as* a doorway to the infinite. > > The problem that arises sometimes is that students > get fixated on the doorway, and forget to look > through it, to what is really important. Thus when > the doorway dies, they often find themselves look- > ing for the infinite in the form of something very > finite -- the teacher, the doorway -- when in > reality, it's everywhere and everything. > > "I do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the > men of old; I seek the things they sought." > -- Basho >
[FairfieldLife] Re: The answer as to the where abouts of Guru Dev's 'Spirit'...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Mr. Magoo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Brahmachari 'Swami' Satyanand speaking c1967 about Guru Dev's > 'nirvana',:- > > snip> > just a half a minute or two seconds after, a flash came and it > appeared to me that Guru Dev was scolding me; > > > "What a fool you are! > You have been with me for all these many months and years, and you > heard my discourses too. > Is it a moment of feeling sorry? > Why should you be sorry today? > And you think that I am gone, where am I gone? > Till now whenever you wanted to meet me, you had, you had to come to > the place where I was, and today when I have attained nirvana, I am > everywhere, I am omnipresent. > Where have I gone? > Very foolish for you to mourn on this occasion. > I am with you, here, there, everywhere. > Why should you be sorry?" Lovely. I think that's a wonderful insight into the nature of omnipresence, as opposed to continued presence. One of the metaphors that the Rama guy I studied with used that I always liked was "the teacher as doorway." The enlightened teacher -- if that is what you consider them to be -- is best viewed as a doorway to the infinite. If he or she is living the infinite on a daily basis, then when you look at them you're really looking "through" them, to what's really important. *They* are not important at all, except *as* a doorway to the infinite. The problem that arises sometimes is that students get fixated on the doorway, and forget to look through it, to what is really important. Thus when the doorway dies, they often find themselves look- ing for the infinite in the form of something very finite -- the teacher, the doorway -- when in reality, it's everywhere and everything. "I do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; I seek the things they sought." -- Basho
