Re: [Audyssey] Preordering was MOTABeta
Hi Will, Well, to be honest I have enough stress as it is right now without adding more preorders or subscription based gaming on my hands. As it is the game's registration system isn't in place yet so I can' give customers a new product key if I wanted to. That isn't probably going to be in the beta until next month or so. I will say though I'll probably begin taking preorders the week before Christmas or so once I'm sure the game will be ready for the holidays or is in final testing. william lomas wrote: i'd set that up now, smile, then people who pre-ordered the game could tr all betas and everyone else would have to wait until full release that way you are making more money --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Preordering was MOTABeta
Oh, absolutely. It is a lot more personal as I have contact with my customers directly on this list, on the USA Games list, various other accessibility related lists, by phone for tech support calls, etc. As a result I get to know them some and as is to be expected I like some and dislike others on a personal and professional level. It wouldn't be that way if USA Games were a mainstream commercial company. I know that the mainstream game companies have several levels of customer service which are there to handle sales, tech support, and so on. Chances are slim to none that you will get to talk to the developer of game x or to speak to the head of the company. As a result they can afford to do whatever they want, and treat their customers with indifference. Bryan Peterson wrote: And of course it's all the more noticeable because we're such a small community. I bet mainstream devs get nasty comments like that all the time but they can just shrug it off because they've probably got lots of folks there who can just hit the delete button or handle the comments however they see fit, whereas we can't necessarily do that. And it's bound to be more discouraging than it would be to a big mainstream developer. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Preordering was MOTABeta
And of course it's all the more noticeable because we're such a small community. I bet mainstream devs get nasty comments like that all the time but they can just shrug it off because they've probably got lots of folks there who can just hit the delete button or handle the comments however they see fit, whereas we can't necessarily do that. And it's bound to be more discouraging than it would be to a big mainstream developer. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Preordering was MOTABeta Hi Hayden, It certainly can. Fortunately most of the negative e-mails have died down and become more normal requests for information but there for a while I was getting constant e-mails that were anything but kind. They were nasty, insulting, and I decided then and there not to use preorders if that is the way people reacted that way towards me. Hayden Presley wrote: Hi Thomas, I see what you mean...I bet that can get nasty sometimes. Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Preordering was MOTABeta
i'd set that up now, smile, then people who pre-ordered the game could tr all betas and everyone else would have to wait until full release that way you are making more money On 2 Oct 2009, at 04:53, Yohandy wrote: wow thomas. good idea! I really like that. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Preordering was MOTABeta Hi Trouble, that's true of course, but some people in our comunity have wicked tempers. Even worse I've spoken to my fair share of people that hav a "you owe me" attitude, and it drives me crazy. That said, I've thought about setting up something like an msdn subscription style service. If you can afford it Microsoft has a subscription for msdn that allows you to download betas for MS Office, Windows, etc and you can upgrade to the full product for a discount when it comes out. It is expensive, but it is a way of getting legal copies of their software as they become available, and for a discount when they come out. If I set up a similar service on my web site people would donate x amount each year for games, and as a result they would get all alpha, beta, and full releases of my games for a reduced price or for nothing at all. That's a way of putting money into the company, but also giving people x number of games for a base fee. Trouble wrote: I can see your point here, but unlike the one that you took the games over from. You have come out with updates and reasons why you got set back. your right a game can not be done in a day and neither was the earth. pre orders are up to you, but personally i see the head ache makes them not worth it. Just so the others know. Big game companies break out the info on the update. Just to wet your apatite and then take as long as they want on the release with no info until release. So you could be waiting six munths to over a year for more info on the game you pre paid for, and they do not answer email or letters about said games. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Preordering was MOTABeta
wow thomas. good idea! I really like that. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Preordering was MOTABeta Hi Trouble, that's true of course, but some people in our comunity have wicked tempers. Even worse I've spoken to my fair share of people that hav a "you owe me" attitude, and it drives me crazy. That said, I've thought about setting up something like an msdn subscription style service. If you can afford it Microsoft has a subscription for msdn that allows you to download betas for MS Office, Windows, etc and you can upgrade to the full product for a discount when it comes out. It is expensive, but it is a way of getting legal copies of their software as they become available, and for a discount when they come out. If I set up a similar service on my web site people would donate x amount each year for games, and as a result they would get all alpha, beta, and full releases of my games for a reduced price or for nothing at all. That's a way of putting money into the company, but also giving people x number of games for a base fee. Trouble wrote: I can see your point here, but unlike the one that you took the games over from. You have come out with updates and reasons why you got set back. your right a game can not be done in a day and neither was the earth. pre orders are up to you, but personally i see the head ache makes them not worth it. Just so the others know. Big game companies break out the info on the update. Just to wet your apatite and then take as long as they want on the release with no info until release. So you could be waiting six munths to over a year for more info on the game you pre paid for, and they do not answer email or letters about said games. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Preordering was MOTABeta
hmmm I personally wouldn't care for a subscription thing, I am happy to wait for things. I also don't care for payed testing, sure I get things but then there is no fun in it. Its different when say a new game comes out, I apply and get a test position, I then test the game, and put in stuff maybe contribute sounds and ideas. I then get a copy for free, well maybe I don't. but still if I do get it for free and even if I don't I can say look I put work into that, part of this is mine because I thought of x idea. Now if I payed for it, its like, well I payed for this, so I expect this, it is my right to get this, because I payed for it, and you will give it to me or else. See, all the fun is gone. It becomes something to buy. and I don't care for it. At 03:20 p.m. 2/10/2009, you wrote: >Hi Trouble, that's true of course, but some people in our comunity have wicked >tempers. Even worse I've spoken to my fair share of people that hav a "you owe >me" attitude, and it drives me crazy. >That said, I've thought about setting up something like an msdn subscription >style service. If you can afford it Microsoft has a subscription for msdn that >allows you to download betas for MS Office, Windows, etc and you can upgrade >to the full product for a discount when it comes out. It is expensive, but it >is a way of getting legal copies of their software as they become available, >and for a discount when they come out. >If I set up a similar service on my web site people would donate x amount each >year for games, and as a result they would get all alpha, beta, and full >releases of my games for a reduced price or for nothing at all. That's a way >of putting money into the company, but also giving people x number of games >for a base fee. > >Trouble wrote: >>I can see your point here, but unlike the one that you took the games over >>from. You have come out with updates and reasons why you got set back. >>your right a game can not be done in a day and neither was the earth. >>pre orders are up to you, but personally i see the head ache makes them not >>worth it. >>Just so the others know. Big game companies break out the info on the update. >>Just to wet your apatite and then take as long as they want on the release >>with no info until release. So you could be waiting six munths to over a year >>for more info on the game you pre paid for, and they do not answer email or >>letters about said games. > > >--- >Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. >If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, >please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Preordering was MOTABeta
Hi Trouble, that's true of course, but some people in our comunity have wicked tempers. Even worse I've spoken to my fair share of people that hav a "you owe me" attitude, and it drives me crazy. That said, I've thought about setting up something like an msdn subscription style service. If you can afford it Microsoft has a subscription for msdn that allows you to download betas for MS Office, Windows, etc and you can upgrade to the full product for a discount when it comes out. It is expensive, but it is a way of getting legal copies of their software as they become available, and for a discount when they come out. If I set up a similar service on my web site people would donate x amount each year for games, and as a result they would get all alpha, beta, and full releases of my games for a reduced price or for nothing at all. That's a way of putting money into the company, but also giving people x number of games for a base fee. Trouble wrote: I can see your point here, but unlike the one that you took the games over from. You have come out with updates and reasons why you got set back. your right a game can not be done in a day and neither was the earth. pre orders are up to you, but personally i see the head ache makes them not worth it. Just so the others know. Big game companies break out the info on the update. Just to wet your apatite and then take as long as they want on the release with no info until release. So you could be waiting six munths to over a year for more info on the game you pre paid for, and they do not answer email or letters about said games. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Preordering was MOTABeta
Hi Hayden, It certainly can. Fortunately most of the negative e-mails have died down and become more normal requests for information but there for a while I was getting constant e-mails that were anything but kind. They were nasty, insulting, and I decided then and there not to use preorders if that is the way people reacted that way towards me. Hayden Presley wrote: Hi Thomas, I see what you mean...I bet that can get nasty sometimes. Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Preordering was MOTABeta
that doesn't sound like tom though. At 06:37 PM 1/10/2009, you wrote: I can see your point here, but unlike the one that you took the games over from. You have come out with updates and reasons why you got set back. your right a game can not be done in a day and neither was the earth. pre orders are up to you, but personally i see the head ache makes them not worth it. Just so the others know. Big game companies break out the info on the update. Just to wet your apatite and then take as long as they want on the release with no info until release. So you could be waiting six munths to over a year for more info on the game you pre paid for, and they do not answer email or letters about said games. At 08:31 PM 9/30/2009, you wrote: Hi Haden, We are currently not taking preorders for any of our games at this time. The main reason is it causes both the customers and developers too much stress. Ever since taking on both Alchemy's preorders and my own I've been frequently hounded over those games. "When will the game be released? Why is it taking so long to release the game? Can I have my money back? If you don't show me a demo of the game I paid for I'm going to take you to court." As you can see some of the inquaries can get quite nasty. What many of these ccustomers fail to realise is I can't do it all over night. It isn't my full time job, and I purely work on the games for fun in my free time. I never signed up to be a target for someone's hate mail, or to be threatened to be sued over using the sales of the preorders to buy content for the game/games in question. The also fail to realize by answering their endless nag messages is time better spent on working on said games. Hayden Presley wrote: What about USA Race Way? I'm really looking forward to that one...can you still preorder that one? Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 8:14 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA beta 7 Hi Haden, You can't. All preordering was done during the Christmas season of 2007 when I was expecting to release Montezuma's Revenge. Unfortunately my plans got screwed up when the mainstream copyright holders of that game decided to threaten me with a law suit if i didn't discontinue the product. HTH Hayden Presley wrote: And how do you preorder? Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. Tim trouble Verizon FIOS support tech "Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance." --Sam Brown Blindeudora list owner. To subscribe or info: http://www.freelists.org/webpage/blindeudora --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or
Re: [Audyssey] Preordering was MOTABeta
I can see your point here, but unlike the one that you took the games over from. You have come out with updates and reasons why you got set back. your right a game can not be done in a day and neither was the earth. pre orders are up to you, but personally i see the head ache makes them not worth it. Just so the others know. Big game companies break out the info on the update. Just to wet your apatite and then take as long as they want on the release with no info until release. So you could be waiting six munths to over a year for more info on the game you pre paid for, and they do not answer email or letters about said games. At 08:31 PM 9/30/2009, you wrote: Hi Haden, We are currently not taking preorders for any of our games at this time. The main reason is it causes both the customers and developers too much stress. Ever since taking on both Alchemy's preorders and my own I've been frequently hounded over those games. "When will the game be released? Why is it taking so long to release the game? Can I have my money back? If you don't show me a demo of the game I paid for I'm going to take you to court." As you can see some of the inquaries can get quite nasty. What many of these ccustomers fail to realise is I can't do it all over night. It isn't my full time job, and I purely work on the games for fun in my free time. I never signed up to be a target for someone's hate mail, or to be threatened to be sued over using the sales of the preorders to buy content for the game/games in question. The also fail to realize by answering their endless nag messages is time better spent on working on said games. Hayden Presley wrote: What about USA Race Way? I'm really looking forward to that one...can you still preorder that one? Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 8:14 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA beta 7 Hi Haden, You can't. All preordering was done during the Christmas season of 2007 when I was expecting to release Montezuma's Revenge. Unfortunately my plans got screwed up when the mainstream copyright holders of that game decided to threaten me with a law suit if i didn't discontinue the product. HTH Hayden Presley wrote: And how do you preorder? Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. Tim trouble Verizon FIOS support tech "Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance." --Sam Brown Blindeudora list owner. To subscribe or info: http://www.freelists.org/webpage/blindeudora --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Preordering was MOTABeta
Hi Thomas, I see what you mean...I bet that can get nasty sometimes. Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:32 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Preordering was MOTABeta Hi Haden, We are currently not taking preorders for any of our games at this time. The main reason is it causes both the customers and developers too much stress. Ever since taking on both Alchemy's preorders and my own I've been frequently hounded over those games. "When will the game be released? Why is it taking so long to release the game? Can I have my money back? If you don't show me a demo of the game I paid for I'm going to take you to court." As you can see some of the inquaries can get quite nasty. What many of these ccustomers fail to realise is I can't do it all over night. It isn't my full time job, and I purely work on the games for fun in my free time. I never signed up to be a target for someone's hate mail, or to be threatened to be sued over using the sales of the preorders to buy content for the game/games in question. The also fail to realize by answering their endless nag messages is time better spent on working on said games. Hayden Presley wrote: > What about USA Race Way? I'm really looking forward to that one...can you > still preorder that one? > Hayden > > -Original Message- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On > Behalf Of Thomas Ward > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 8:14 PM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA beta 7 > > Hi Haden, > You can't. All preordering was done during the Christmas season of 2007 > when I was expecting to release Montezuma's Revenge. Unfortunately my > plans got screwed up when the mainstream copyright holders of that game > decided to threaten me with a law suit if i didn't discontinue the product. > > HTH > > Hayden Presley wrote: > >> And how do you preorder? >> Hayden >> >> > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.