Fwd: Bad link on

[Pier Fumagalli]

FYI

Begin forwarded message:


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 13 October 2005 09:26:02 BDT
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Bad link on



In the paragraph entitled "Watch where you are sending email."
On the page http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html
The following link http://www.metasystema.org/essays/reply-to- 
useful.mhtml

is actually to a link's farm and not the expected content.

Martin Spamer




smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Commons EL 1.0 Released

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 25/6/03 2:49 "Geir Magnusson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> On Tuesday, June 24, 2003, at 06:58 AM, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
> 
>> Someone cares to explain the difference between JEXL and this one?
> 
> Jexl is my own concoction to do what the JSTL EL does with extensions,
> w/o worry about some of the limitations of the EL (such as access to
> methods...)

Ah! :-) Because I always used the JSP spec to guide me in the use of JEXL
expressions..

> Jelly uses Jexl, and Maven use Jelly, so there is some use :)

I'm just digging around for expression languages, and was wondering about
the differences (as they do look way similar)... Anyhow, I just opted to use
JXPATH :-)

Pier


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Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Commons EL 1.0 Released

[Pier Fumagalli]

Someone cares to explain the difference between JEXL and this one?

Pier

"Jan Luehe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The Commons EL team is pleased to announce the first official release of
> Commons EL from the Apache Software Foundation.
> 
> Commons EL provides an interpreter for the Expression Language that is
> part of the JavaServer Pages (JSP) specification, version 2.0.
> 
> For more details, see the Release Notes at
> 
> http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/commons/el/RELEASE-NOTES.txt
> 
> The binary distribution is available at
> 
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/binindex.cgi,
> 
> and the source distribution at
> 
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/sourceindex.cgi
> 
> Please remember to verify the signatures of the distribution bundles using
> the keys found at
> 
> http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/commons/el/KEYS
> 
> For more information on Commons EL, go to
> 
> http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/el.html
> 
> 
> Jan Luehe



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Re: Sun

[Pier Fumagalli]

"Vic Cekvenich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> FYI: The rumor is  from developers I know of a commercial J2EE
> vendor that no one passes all the tests.
> But since they pay, that makes you certified.

I worked for Sun Micro for almost two years, in the J2EE team, and unless
something changed in the policy over there (which I don't think, as I know
each single one in that team), this is absolutely untrue.

Pier


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Re: Sun

[Pier Fumagalli]

"Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>>> Don't you think JBoss' huge success has something to do with Sun's
>>> animosity? Every developer I know who has a say on the platform uses
>>> JBoss: better product, better documentation, better support, lower
>>> price.
>> 
>> Don't read me wrong: I'm on the JBoss-side on this, in that *the
>> project* should be able to present itself on a JUG event. When comparing
>> *JBossGroup* with the ASF however (if that would be possible at all), I
>> partially understand Pier's reservations. This doesn't mean SunBE is
>> right on this, however. The fact a (pardon me) marketing lowlife
>> believes he can silently get away with that is once again a great
>> occasion to help such people see the cluetrain is arriving.
> 
> I *would* agree if the other vendors weren't being permitted.  I fail to see
> what compliance should have to do with it.  Its a Javapolis not a J2EEpolis.

All other vendors are permitted, and all other vendors had to pay for their
compliancy... Why is JBoss Group LLC different? Noone AFAIK ever told them
"no you can't", I believe they were just told "please pay the fee exactly
like every other vendor does".

Pier


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Re: Sun

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 28/5/03 9:08 "Steven Noels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Sun should be happy that people create cheap implementations of their
> APIs. If their own implementations would be any better, they might also
> be making money of them. ;)

Nothing against that, absolutely, but voices are saying that JBoss Group LLC
is unwilling to pay for the compliancy tests and certification, which
everyone else in the market pays... Voices also say that Sun offered them
quite a substantial discount, but they didn't accept.

I fail to see what is the difference between JBoss Group LLC and any other
private/public corporation developing a J2EE solution...

Pier


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Re: Sun

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 28/5/03 0:26 "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Good: http://www.theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=19500

Hm...

> Evil: 
> http://www.shiftat.com/blog/page/werner/20030527#sun_reaffirms_no_jboss_at

Indeed... Mark Fleury _is_ evil.

> Glad these guys don't sponsor my JUG.  I hope Apache can continue to assert
> a high level of independence despite Sun's shift to a more Machiavellian
> perspective of it's sponsorship.

Going back and looking at the past 5 years, actually, I think that in this
case, the guy from Sun actually has a point (Rudy? Who the hell is he?).

Oddly enough in the J2EE/JBoss saga, I don't see Sun as being the "bad" guys
(but ok, some of us and Mark go back A LONG time)...

Pier


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FW: broken links

[Pier Fumagalli]

Not acked


-- Forwarded Message
> From: Erik Price <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 11:28:48 -0500
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: broken links
> 
> There are two sort-of broken links on this page:
> 
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/library.html
> 
> They are the references to The Cathedral and the Bazaar and Homesteading
> the Noosphere.  Eric Raymond's site is no longer served from
> www.tuxedo.org/~esr , I have heard that this may be temporary but the
> content is currently available at http://catb.org/~esr/ .
> 
> 
> Erik
> 
> 
> 

-- End of Forwarded Message


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Re: Eyebrowse problem?

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 20/3/03 21:03 "Magesh Umasankar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> All I get when trying to look up any archived
> message thread is $msgHeaders as the meat of it.
> 
> What is going on?

We're aware of it... Will be fixed hopefully soon...

Pier


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Re: Jakarta: too many similar projects?

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 18/3/03 11:33 "Geir Magnusson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> On Sunday, March 16, 2003, at 10:02 PM, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
> 
>> On 17/3/03 1:24 "Hans Bergsten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>>> I agree that there's been problem with the Servlet EG this time
>>> around,
>>> but what I'm saying is that there are avenues that we _could_ have
>>> used to voice our concerns, but we didn't for some reason. There are a
>>> number of mailing lists and online forums where developers interested
>>> in the fate of the spec hangs out. We could have started discussions
>>> there, and urged people to send feedback to Sun.
>> 
>> This is why I feel that my work as the official representative to that
>> EG has been a failure :-( _MY_ failure...
>> 
> 
> Well - it's always easy to look back and see what you could have done
> differently.  Is it too late?

Yes... Certain new features are in... Not much we can do now...

Pier


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Re: Jakarta: too many similar projects?

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 17/3/03 1:24 "Hans Bergsten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I agree that there's been problem with the Servlet EG this time around,
> but what I'm saying is that there are avenues that we _could_ have
> used to voice our concerns, but we didn't for some reason. There are a
> number of mailing lists and online forums where developers interested
> in the fate of the spec hangs out. We could have started discussions
> there, and urged people to send feedback to Sun.

This is why I feel that my work as the official representative to that EG
has been a failure :-( _MY_ failure...

Pier


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Re: Jakarta: too many similar projects?

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 16/3/03 23:32 "Geir Magnusson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> BTW, I *think* that you should be able to discuss the issues with any
> ASF member, if you are representing the ASF on the EG, not just other
> EG members.  We all are bound by the agreements made by the ASF.

In fact I post my concerns to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and from time to time to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] as well... But I can't to tomcat-dev (I know only two
developers involved with the RI which are members: Remy and Craig, and the
latter is on that list in virtue of his employment with Sun - looking at me
Jon and Jason making fool of ourselves, of course)

Pier


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Re: Jakarta: too many similar projects?

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 16/3/03 20:20 "Hans Bergsten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> Geir, I _really_ am in troubles when dealing with Servlets. I cannot raise
>> issues on the tomcat-dev mailing lists, all I can do is discuss them with
>> Jon and Jason, as they both are on the spec...
> 
> You can raise and discuss your concerns in public as soon as a public
> draft of the spec is available, and there are at least two public drafts
> before the spec is finalized; plenty of time to make sure the larger
> community is aware of, and agrees with, what's being suggested.
> 
> The "NDA" in the JCP agreement only applies to "confidential
> information". After a public draft has been published, the info it
> contains is no longer confidential.

As you are on the EG yourself, you know how hard it is to have one word
removed from the next revision of the spec once it gets in :-)

Just thinking out loud...

Pier


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Re: Jakarta: too many similar projects?

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 12/3/03 6:53 "Geir Magnusson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> On Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 10:58 PM, Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
>> 
>> As it turns out, there is substantial room for innovation and debate in
>> the implementation of API specs like servlet and JSP (see the history
>> of
>> Tomcat development, and the recent innovation going on there for an
>> example), just like there is lots of room to be creative in
>> implementing
>> something like HTTP, which has been done, and continues to be done, in
>> a very large number of implementations in a very large number of
>> languages -- despite the fact that the W3C standards process, like many
>> others, includes periods of time when only the "privileged few" are
>> allowed to be involved.
> 
> Take it a step further - how many internationally recognized standards
> processes will allow a single individual to propose, develop and
> deliver a standard?  The JCP will...

Yes, but why can I share with my friends concerns on the new W3C
specifications and confront them in public, while I cannot do that with the
JCP specifications???

Geir, I _really_ am in troubles when dealing with Servlets. I cannot raise
issues on the tomcat-dev mailing lists, all I can do is discuss them with
Jon and Jason, as they both are on the spec...

Pier


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Re: Jakarta: too many similar projects?

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 11/3/03 23:40 "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> No I'm saying that projects which some committers are bound by Sun's
> NDAs and are on the specification commmittees do not
> have meritocratic consensus based communities.  The committers engaged
> in the legal agreement with sun cannot talk to the other
> committers about important decisions affecting the project and secondly
> the major decisions are made in the specification committee and
> not in the project itself.  Committers are promoted to the decision
> making process by an outside entity (sun) and not by their own community.
> The communication bonds twart collaboration which degrades innovation.

I am the official Apache representative for Servlet, and in my personal
experience it is quite difficult to voice some concerns I have on the
direction of the with the developer community of Jakarta, because, as you
said, I am not supposed to mention what goes on in the JSR lists in public
whilst over in Apache land I'm not supposed to keep something private.

> The JCP does not encourage innovative processes which Sun or
> the Spec lead might disagree with.

Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't... We have example swinging both
ways, the spec lead enforcing something on the JSR expert group, or in other
cases, the expert group driven by the community outside forcing something on
the spec lead...

Most of the times, in my experience, it all comes down to how "receptive"
the spec lead is in regards to new ideas coming from outside, and how much
"weight" he has in his company (the JSR sponsoring company)...

But my experience is too little to say what happens more often.

Pier


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Re: Jakarta: too many similar projects?

[Pier Fumagalli]

"Paulo Silveira" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Sorry not giving a link the other time. Here is Apache voting against
> JSR 127 long time ago.
> 
> http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/results?id=614
> 
> You can see Apache´s comment:
> 
> "On 2001-05-28 Apache Software Foundation voted No with the following
> comment:
> This JSR conflicts with the Apache open source project Struts.
> Considering Sun's current position that JSRs may not be independently
> implemented under an open source license, we see little value in
> recreating a technology in a closed environment that is already
> available in an open environment."

I would simply like to point out WHO is the specification lead of JSR-127
(see http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=127), and who was the initial
author of Struts (see http://jakarta.apache.org/struts/volunteers.html)...

Apache's concerns were "Considering Sun's current position that JSRs may not
be independently implemented under an open source license [...]", and I'll
let you make 1 + 1 here...

Pier


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Re: [RESULT][PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations

[Pier Fumagalli]

"Sam Ruby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>> 
>> I nominate Pier Fumagalli for membership in the Jakarta PMC, for a
>> period exceeding that of any Italian post-war government.
> 
> +1

I thank you and esteem the trust you guys have in me, and I feel honored of
this nomination. But (there's always a but) "I literally have no bandwidth
to bear the oversighting responsibilities that a PMC member should fulfill.
If I have/want to be a PMC member, I need to be an active one."

Therefore, although extremely flattered by this offer, I will have to
reject. I have a more-than-full time job, two major involvements with two
open source projects outside the scope of this PMC (Jetty and Cocoon), two
cats and I'm also trying to work on the "girlfriend" part...

Thank you very much for your support and friendship...

Pier



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Re: [RESULT][PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations

[Pier Fumagalli]

"Henri Gomez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> robert burrell donkin wrote:
>> the following committers have passed the PMC nomination vote proposed by
>> sam ruby:
>> 
>>   - Danny Angus
>>   - Peter Carlson
>>   - Morgan Delagrange
>>   - Ceki Gülcü
>>   - Dmitri Plotnikov
>>   - Phillip Rhodes
>>   - James Strachan
>>   - Jason van Zyl
>>   - Ted Husted
>>   - Rod Waldhoff
>> 
>> i'm sending this to let you all know.
>> 
>> the role of jakarta PMC is changing but rather than give an opinion and
>> pretend some authority i don't have, take a look at this thread:
> 
> What do you means by passed the PMC nomination ?
> I'm confused with the original mail where many commiters were
> elected as Jakarta PMC members ?

I am more than you are, as my name pops on and off the proposed PMC members
as yours does depending on the mood of the day...

Pier :-)


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Re: PMC Nomination

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 20/2/03 2:34 "Conor MacNeill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> A bit like 
> saying the government is responsible for running the country. That doesn't
> mean every minister will have expertise in every portfolio

Ministers might not know the details, but know the overall direction and
actions of all the other portfolios... And if that works for Italy, I
believe it works everywhere else...

Pier (mum works down with the politics in Italy, somehow)


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Re: PMC Nomination

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 19/2/03 23:00 "Leo Simons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Guess what? No need for that at all! The "additional" responsibility
> being on a PMC entails wasn't additional at all.

Avalon is ONE project... Jakarta, I can't count them with my hands AND feet.

Pier


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Re: PMC Nomination

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 19/2/03 23:10 "Leo Simons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I don't think anyone expects that upon becoming a PMC member one would
> immediately need to gain and maintain intimate knowledge of all corners
> of the jakarta codebases. It is just about humanly impossible. So it is
> probably a good move to ensure the PMC is of a size where there are one
> or more people who do have that intimate knowledge for each particular
> corner.

If I talk to someone on the HTTPd PMC, he _knows_all_. I don't see why it
should be different for Jakarta. And if the problem is size, well, break up
the bloody thing, it was never designed to be this huge.

My 2 pennies.

Pier


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Re: PMC Nomination

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 19/2/03 21:31 "Sam Ruby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Pier Fumagalli wrote:
>> On 19/2/03 17:18 "Sam Ruby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>>> The goal is to make all active committers PMC members.
>> 
>> I think this is utterly wrong for an umbrella project like Jakarta.
> 
> Interesting.  100% of the ASF board members that I have talked to have
> given me exactly the opposite advice.
> 
> I am executing on their recommendations.

This is not a convincing enough argument to make me change my point of view.

Pier


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Re: PMC Nomination

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 19/2/03 17:18 "Sam Ruby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jeffrey Dever wrote:
>> 
>> I am not excited by the idea of only PMC members voting on releases to
>> the exclusion of active committers.  I'm the release prime for Commons
>> HttpClient where all committers vote on all issues all the time,
>> including releases.  HttpClient is somewhat unusual in commons as it is
>> rather a large project with a dedicated mailing list and a rich family
>> where many, such as myself, are primarily focused on just one project,
>> HttpClient.
> 
> The goal is to make all active committers PMC members.

I think this is utterly wrong for an umbrella project like Jakarta. Being
PMC member in my little book of horrors come with quite a little bit of
responsibilities over _ALL_ projects managed by that PMC.

Now, under Jakarta, there might be projects on which one might like to be
involved and spend time on (therefore bearing the responsibilities of being
a PMC member over _that_ particular code base),  but there might be project
that one don't want to be even remotely associated with...

So, unless this:

> The PMC is responsible for the strategic direction and success of the Jakarta
> Project. This governing body is expected to ensure the project's welfare and
> guide its overall direction.

Found here 

Changes to identify that individual PMC members might have oversight only on
a fraction (subproject) of the whole project, I would be against it.

It's just a matter of roles and _responsibilities_...

Pier


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Re: [PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 17/2/03 7:25 "Stefan Bodewig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> Pier, Ceki, Jason and Ted are covered by the "re-add former PMC
> members who want to be PMC members again" plan you've hinted at.

I wasn't on the PMC last year, it was two years ago...

Anyhow, I am on the PMC list only because I respond to webmaster@jakarta,
and sometimes it's useful to forward stuff over there. BTW, if someone in
the PMC wants to take on that job, I can't handle it that well ATM, so it
might be better served by someone more close to Jakarta as a whole.

As I am no longer involved with any of the Jakarta subproject, please don't
consider me as an active PMC member (not even an inactive PMC member)...

On 21/1/03 19:14 "Sam Ruby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> All good nominations.  Pier, Ceki, Jason, and Ted previously served as
> PMC members and declined their renominations, but I plan to talk to them
> about that.  At a minimum, they will be restored as emeritus members.

Sam, I literally have no bandwidth to bear the oversighting responsibilities
that a PMC member should fulfill. If I have/want to be a PMC member, I need
to be an active one, one more passive name on the list just adds confusion
IMO.

Take care y'all...

Pier (BTW, I read general once a week, so for urgent stuff, CC me)


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Re: Licensing again.

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 10/2/03 4:05 "Lawrence E. Rosen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> It should be noted that Apache Software Foundation members
>> are the legal
>> *owners* of the software that is available under the Apache
>> Software License.  Indeed, that is one of the key benefits to
>> becoming an ASF member, as opposed to just a committer on one
>> or more projects.  It seems perfectly reasonable that
>> decisions on the license under which that software is
>> licensed should be made by the people that own it.
> 
> I'm curious.  What is the legal basis for this claim of ownership?

The fact that each contributor, prior access to our CVS repository, signs a
paper saying that for whatever goes in CVS, he assigns copyright and
ownership of the code to the ASF... No more no less than what any random
employee of a software company does with his employer...

Pier


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Re: [Fwd: Maven as a top-level apache project]

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 9/2/03 2:05 "Costin Manolache" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> And why not: DISPLAY the damn license and require the user to type
> "I do understand the terms of this licence" and click somewhere
> ( that may also cover the requirements of some of the packages ).

Click-through is something we always wanted to avoid...

Pier


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Re: nagoya.apache.org Administrator

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 5/2/03 16:48 "Nathan Christiansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Does anyone on this list know who I would need to contact at nagoya.apache.org
> in order to change my E-mail address on my Bugzilla account?
> 
> My company has changed names and therefore my E-mail address has changed.  The
> old E-mail will still work for a couple of more months, but I would like to
> change it now.
> 
> I am watching several bugs and would like to refrain from having to create a
> new account and add the bugs to the new account, then remove them from the
> old.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.

You can do it yourself in one of the options at the bottom (I suppose)...
Otherwise write to me or to (hear hear) [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Pier


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Re: Example committer acknowledgement - RESEND

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 5/2/03 2:59 "Scott Eade" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> The example committer acknowledgement on
>> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/roles.html indicates that a new committer
>> should send an email to asf at jaguNET.com.  What is the purpose of this,
>> and assuming there is a purpose, what is the address that should actually be
>> used.

The email address you have to use is the one you normally use (in your case
Scott Eade <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)... The purpose is to let know the
ASF secretary that you can actually write code in our CVS, and therefore
legally bound to the Foundation itself (in good and bad times)...

Pier


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Re: nice

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 30/1/03 13:26 "Geir Magnusson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 10:03 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
>> Yeah, for instance, I was once interviewed for a contract to hire gig at
>> Microsoft.  (This was circa '97 prior to my involvment in Java).  Had I sold
>> my soul, would I still be able to be a member of Apache?
> 
> In my brief association with the ASF, I have never heard of a person
> being discriminated against because of their employer.

Let's not forget that our CHAIRMAN (Greg Stein) worked for quite an
extensive period at Microsoft... And he's one of the nicest guys I've met in
my entire life:

>From :

> Between 1996 and 1998, Mr. Stein worked at Microsoft as a Development Manager,
> in the Commerce Server and Site Server groups. He was also a co-founder and
> the Corporate Technologist of eShop, one of the first electronic commerce
> software companies, before its acquisition by Microsoft in 1996.

Pier


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Re: LGPL beans imported into code at Apache....

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 30/1/03 7:58 "Paul Hammant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  I am not sure of Steffano's assertion that a Cocoon
> block can be GPL from the last of that thread..  If it does an import of
> org.apache.anything it is in trouble from my understanding of RMS's
> typed GPL wisdoms (pasted below from
> http://www.fsf.org/licenses/license-list.html#GPLIncompatibleLicenses ) :

That is RMS's vision, Roy's quite different, and I and Stefano ( with ONE
"f") both agree with him. And as I pointed out in my emails to cocoon-dev,
this should be really a discussion targeted to community@ or licensing@ ...

God bless the power to say "off topic" :-) :-)

Pier


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Re: LGPL beans imported into code at Apache....

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 27/1/03 23:21 "Paul Hammant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> There is plenty of it here at Apache, but what is the official status of
> LGPL.  I am well aware that GPL linkage is verbotten and for good
> reason.  However GPL is a very different beast.
> 
> Given that the FSF has plenty to say about Apache license in conjunction
> with the GPL, but little to say about the same scenario with respect to
> the LGPL, what is the situation for us?
> 
> To clarify the use of the LGPL software - it is direct use (import and
> instantiate) rather than extend or implement.  I believe there is good
> separation.
> http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/jakarta-avalon-excalibur/altrmi/src/java/org/apa
> che/excalibur/altrmi/client/impl/socket/AbstractSocketStreamSSHInvocationHandl
> er.java
> 
> I am aware of a recent Cocoon discussion, but cannot believe they came
> to the conclusion that they could not use it.  What I am really looking
> for is the wisdom from those who've had legal counsel for Apache on this
> subject.

The end of the thread on cocoon-dev...

http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?[EMAIL PROTECTED]
g&msgId=625635

We came to the conclusion (I believe) that we don't _want_ it.

Roughly the whole thread:

http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/SearchList?listId=&listName=cocoon-dev%40
xml.apache.org&searchText=LGPL&defaultField=subject&Search=Search

Pier


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Re: eyebrowse archive of commons-httpclient-dev

[Pier Fumagalli]

Sander Striker wrote:


http://www.apache.org/dev/list-setup.html


Gotcha... Since I was at it I also added Tapestry-DEV, Tapestry-USER, 
Avalon-USERS, BSF-DEV and BSF-USERS...

	Pier	


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Re: Forum Software.

[Pier Fumagalli]

> On Wed, Jan 22, 2003 at 01:08:56PM -0800, Randall J. Parr wrote:
>> 
>> It seems much of the reason people want to have forums is for the search
>> abilities. There are mail archives available but I must I agree many are
>> so limited in their search abilities and/or interface that they do not
>> help much.

We have a license and an installation of Jive, if someone wants to get it up
to speed... It's on nagoya.

Pier


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Re: New Jakarta proposal: Pluto

[Pier Fumagalli]

As this is an implementation of a JSR, I believe that the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
mailing list should be made aware of those plans...

I forwarded your email there...

Pier

"Stefan Hepper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi all,
> I would like to propose a new Jakarta project, named Pluto, that should
> provide the reference implementation of the JSR 168 Portlet Specification.
> 
> Please see http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?PlutoProposal for
> more details (I've also attached the proposal below).
> 
> Regards,
>   Stefan
> 
> ---
> 
> Proposal for Pluto - A Jakarta Subproject
> 
> 
> 21 January 2003, Stefan Hepper ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> 
> 
> (0) rationale
> 
> 
> To enable interoperability between Portlets and Portals, IBM and SUN
> initiated the JSR 168. This JSR will define a set of APIs for Portal
> computing addressing the areas of aggregation, personalization,
> presentation and security. It will define Portlets, the Portlet container
> behavior, invocation of Portlets, Portlet services, a Portlet window, event
> model, and other relevant entities and interfaces. For more information see
> http://jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=168.
> 
> 
> As part of this JSR a reference implementation of the portlet container,
> which is the run-time environment of the Portlets, will be created. This
> reference implementation will be based on the Tomcat subproject.
> 
> 
> There are two other projects at Jakarta, which could pick up the reference
> implementation of the portlet container to leverage that work. One is the
> JetSpeed? portal project and the other one is the Charon proposal.
> 
> 
> The portlet container will be build on top of the Servlet container and
> JetSpeed? can use this container in its particular portal implementation,
> other persons or companies also could pick up the portlet container
> reference implementation and use it for their products.
> 
> 
> Having Pluto done under Apache would also ensure that there is a tight
> communication between the developers of the Servlet container, the portlet
> container, the portal, and the WSRP implementation proposal Charon.
> 
> 
> (1) scope of the subproject
> 
> 
> The only purpose of this subproject is to create and maintain a reference
> implementation for the Java Portlet specification as defined in
> http://jcp.org/jsr/detail/168.jsp . The goal for the reference
> implementation is to create an independent portlet container that may be
> plugged into every possible driver, for instance JetSpeed?. This project
> will not create a new portal, but only a reference implementation of a
> portlet container.
> 
> 
> There is an agreement with JetSpeed? that the JetSpeed? will be based on
> this portlet container implementation.
> 
> 
> (2) identify the initial source from which the subproject is to be
> populated
> 
> 
> The JSR 168 Expert Group has a prototype based on Tomcat, which will be the
> starting point for the subproject. This prototype will be submitted to
> Jakarta after the first JSR 168 draft is made public available, which is
> currently scheduled for end of March.
> 
> 
> (3) identify the Jakarta resources to be created
> 
> 
> (3.1) mailing list(s) pluto-user pluto-dev
> 
> 
> (3.2) CVS repositories jakarta-pluto
> 
> 
> (3.3) Bugzilla
> 
> 
> (3.4) Jyve FAQ (when available)
> 
> 
> pluto-general
> 
> 
> (4) identify the initial set of committers
> 
> 
> Stefan Hepper ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> 
> 
> Stephan Hesmer ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> 
> 
> Birga Rick ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> 
> 
> David Sean Taylor ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> 
> 
> Alejandro Abdelnur ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> 
> 
> (5) identify apache sponsoring individual
> 
> 
> Sam Ruby ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> 
> 


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FW: Typo on http://jakarta.apache.org/site/binindex.cgi

[Pier Fumagalli]

FYI, not acked...

Pier

-- Forwarded Message
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 19:20:52 +
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Typo on http://jakarta.apache.org/site/binindex.cgi

First line convienence -> convenience.  Just thought I'd point it out.  I've
been there dozens of times and never noticed it before.  Had to recommend a
build process at work, and since I like yours I cut and paste it and it got
flagged during a spell check.

Jon



-- End of Forwarded Message


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Re: ACTION not WORDS Re: A Jakarta wiki?

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 21/12/02 2:34 "Sam Ruby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
>> 
>> Sam, do you or someone have the abillity/will to give me sufficient
>> rights to install a small cgi script on an apache webserver somewhere
>> with filesystem access?
> 
> Your definition of "ACTION" is "AskSam"?
> 
> AFAIK, your authority and mine with respect to being able to execute cgi
> scripts on a machine like cvs.apache.org are the same.  I just did a few
> tests, and apparently I don't have permission.

That's called defensive programming (ehem... Administration) :-)

>> If not, what about servlet engine + database access?
> 
> Not on any BSD machine.  You will find a more receptive set of sysadmins
> on nagoya.
> 
> In any case, the right place to pursue this is [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Done... http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/

I'd still prefer a Java/MySQL based approach, but It's up and running...

Pier


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Re: GUI of the website, where's an overview? (not simply found)

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 19/12/02 13:49 "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> Trove is also Sourceforge's categorization system.  I suspect that is
> where the name was taken from.  If you'd like to publicize Tea more, why
> not put it on the "Elsewhere" news on the front page?   (not being
> sarcastic, its an honest suggestion)

Jason's servlet book publicises it enough! :-) And given that it's not an
ASF project...

Pier


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Re: GUI of the website, where's an overview? (not simply found)

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 17/12/02 7:14 "Steven Noels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm currently (slowly) working on this:
> http://cocoon.cocoondev.org/mount/trove/ - which should, amongst
> others, be dependant on Gump data.

Simple hint... Don't call it "Trove"...

http://teatrove.sourceforge.net/

It's a pretty-famous widely-used set of utility classes used by Tea (a
template engine). And given that they went open-source with it because of us
(well, Brian and Duncan) we don't want to step on friends' toes, right???
:-) :-)

Pier


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Re: FYI: Follow up on the XML'ization of MS Office 11

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 17/12/02 18:03 "Dominique Devienne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> ... which follows the SUN and MS bashing thread where this subject was
> brushed on.
> I'm just forwarding the news, no need to shoot/flame the messenger. Thanks,
> --DD
> 
> From: xmlhack daily news digest: 17 Dec 2002
> 
> Microsoft Office embraces XML http://xmlhack.com/read.php?item=1839
> 
> 
> For many participants, the most memorable event of XML 2002 will be
> Jean Paoli's presentation of Office 11, which promises to deliver
> easier access to XML for hundreds of millions of work stations.
> (Tools, Comment: 20:28 16 Dec 2002 UTC)


Lame... Since ages we got  which has (I'm
sure), less bugs than MS' implementation of it...

Pier


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Re: Jakarta PMC report

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 18/12/02 19:00 "Doug Bateman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Seeing clarification:  Is Sam's post here the official report from
> the PMC, or a summary of a PMC report posted elsewhere?
> 
> Looking at the news page, I see a summary for status of each
> individual project in Jakarta, but no summary of the status and
> growth of Jakarta as a whole.  For example, PMC interest in
> slowing/stopping the imperialistic expansion isn't directly
> mentioned on the page, and yet is of interest to the community as
> a whole (users and developers).

Those should be integrated (IMO) in Rob's Newsletters... Now, if only the
different projects fed him some content

pier


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Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 13/12/02 20:00 "Jeff Schnitzer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 06:42:36PM +0200, mohammad nabil wrote:
>> 
>> support Sun, Open Source, and all good manufacturar in our nice world :)
>> 
> 
> Do you just not grasp that Sun's rigid control of Java is the
> antithesis of Open Source, and _especially_ the Apache philosophy?
> 
> Try forking the Java codebase sometime.  See how fast it takes
> Sun's lawyers to find you.  Want to port Java to a new platform?
> Get special permission from Sun, and don't plan on having public
> CVS (see the FreeBSD experience).
> 
> There's nothing "open" about that.

That's why the Foundation is working to fix that...

Pier


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Nagoya Moved...

[Pier Fumagalli]

Ok, I got a couple of "complaints" from freaks whose DNS didn't refresh all
right (not _my_ fault :-)... If someone on your favorite list is complaining
that they can't see Nagoya, or the bug database, tell them to fix their DNS
server (first) and to use the (new) IP address straight:

http://192.18.33.10/

Pier


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We're MOVING! :-)

[Pier Fumagalli]

A big thank you to Sun Microsystems which is upgrading our bandwidth for
Nagoya from 1.5 Mbps (T1) to something _MUCH_ bigger (as far as I was told,
though)...

We (well, actually Justina and her team) will have to move nagoya off to
another colo somewhere in california next week, so there will be an outage
on the Jakarta mailing lists around the 13th when the actual relocation will
be performed...

I have already checked all email configuration to be able to have a smooth
transition... Because of how DNS work, I'll start archiving all messages on
daedauls before the downtime (effectively using another queue), and then
relaying them off once the move is done to the actual IP address (to avoid
DNS latencies and stuff)...

MAYBE (but just _MAYBE_) I'll be able to move the BugZilla installation
across on another server in London for the time being (it is the one where I
replicate the DB every night, but as of yet, no bugzilla install on it), and
do some tricks with IP addresses and HTTP forwarding, but that's not
guaranteed as of yet (it depends on how much spare time I get on my hands
next week)...

Other than that, well, stuff should run smoothly after the move, apart from
the usual DNS latencies, but I already moved TTL and EXPIRE to 1 day, will
be to 1 hour the week of the actual move)...

That's all for now... Have fun, and keep your fingers crossed... You never
know what might go wrong! :-)

Pier

-- 
"Jakarta Tomcat is [...] it is produced by the Apache organisation under the
GNU public licence [...]"   Emma Newby - Techincal Lead - SkyRock UK



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Re: Short Apache licence for source files

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 7/12/02 7:56 "Steven Noels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Pier Fumagalli wrote:
> 
>>>> Current drafts of the 2.0 license include a solution to this
>>>> issue, plus a whole bunch of other niceties.  Discussions of
>>>> the new license are happening on a mailing list dedicated to
>>>> that purpose.
>>> 
>>> Where is that mailing list?
>> 
>> 
>> I believe it was avaliable _only_ to ASF members...
> 
> Which is kinda strange since it is the license which _committers_ also
> need to abide...

You're free to file your complaint to the appropriate department dealing
with those kinds of issues: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Pier


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Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 6/12/02 1:00 "James Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>>> The Question I have for everybody here is does anyone have any interest in
>>> Porting any of the other jakarta projects to C# so that they may be able to
>>> run on Mono/Linux/windows & .Net/Micorsoft ?
>>> 
>> what this sppose to mean
>> ppl, why want you to support C#!
> 
> Sticky issue, but from one perspective you could say that C# / CL* have
> more potential to be an open platform than java at the moment,
> considering that Microsoft has submitted most of the base platform to
> ECMA, while Sun still has a strangle-hold on Java...

Being involved with the JCP quite closely, yes, I tend to agree... And since
now C# is also available for OS/X, well, I'm game! :-)

Pier


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Re: velocity lovers...

[Pier Fumagalli]

> Wow. Java Server Faces really sucks ass. Much more than I could have ever
> imagined. No wonder I didn't bother looking at it before. What a confusing,
> over engineered, under thought out way to do things! I'm really surprised that
> Sun thinks that anyone is going to use this crap and actually like it.
> 
> [...]
> 
> I'm completely amazed and disappointed that Sun is spending so much time,
> energy and money towards creating so much crap.

I usually call 'em "Java Server Feces"... But that's just me... :-)

Pier


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Re: Short Apache licence for source files

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 5/12/02 4:04 am, in article 003b01c29c13$6dd962b0$927ba8c0@ROSENGARDEN,
"Lawrence E. Rosen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> Current drafts of the 2.0 license include a solution to this
>> issue, plus a whole bunch of other niceties.  Discussions of
>> the new license are happening on a mailing list dedicated to
>> that purpose.
> 
> Where is that mailing list?

I believe it was avaliable _only_ to ASF members...

Pier


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Re: Missing pages on xindice site

[Pier Fumagalli]

"Pier Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Not acked... Please...

Whopsie... Wrong general! :-)

Pier


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FW: Missing pages on xindice site

[Pier Fumagalli]

Not acked... Please...

Pier

> -- Forwarded Message
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 04:44:41 EST
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Missing pages on xindice site
> 

> Hello! 
> 
> Since two weeks, the following links on your site
> produces 404-Errors:
> 
> http://xml.apache.org/xindice/UsersGuide.html
> http://xml.apache.org/xindice/DevelopersGuide.html
> http://xml.apache.org/xindice/AdministratorsGuide.html
> http://xml.apache.org/xindice/ToolsReference.html
> 
> Let´s say, the whole xindice site has permanent errors.
> Please keep me informed about updates (and excuse my
> english). 
> 
> Best regards, 
> 
> Markus Nix 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-- End of Forwarded Message

Re: Mozilla mail filters

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 22/11/02 16:41 "Laurie Harper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> That looks pretty cool. Is gatewaying mailing lists as easy to do as it
> claims?

No, he makes it sound complicate... It's actually easier.

Pier


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Re: Mozilla mail filters

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 21/11/02 15:58 "Laurie Harper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 11/21/02 8:36 AM, "Pier Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Only thing I need is bandidth. From the admin point of view, dropping INN
>> has been the best choice I've made in a _very_ long time. Basically zero
>> maintenance.
> 
> Well, if bandwidth means network connectivity I might be able to help,
> depending on traffic volumes; if bandwidth means you need to find some time,
> I probably can't be so useful :)

Bandwidth in terms of MBPS. At least ten just to start...

> Out of interest, what are you using in place of INN?

SN. http://infa.abo.fi/~patrik/sn/

Pier


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Re: Mozilla mail filters

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 21/11/02 18:16 "Costin Manolache" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Pier Fumagalli wrote:
> 
>>> Does it use the same "mail verification" program?
>> 
>> Messages are delivered to my Qmail, will through SpamAssassin and McAfee
>> for viruses, if that's what you're asking.
> 
> Gmane uses a "mail verification" mechanism - they don't allow posting of
> any message until you confirm your email address ( for each group ). ( they
> send you a message after the first post, and if you reply then the post and
> all following posts will be allowed ).

On my setup, you actually have to subscribe to the allow list (only few
people know the wickedness of this option)... At the end, it'll be web
based.

Pier


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Re: Mozilla mail filters

[Pier Fumagalli]

"Laurie Harper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 11/20/02 9:54 PM, "Pier Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Like a bazillion of other people... Folks, you can't just _forbid_ me to
>> watch my daily porn just because you want news... Once I'm done with this
>> deadline, I'll move some stuff over somewhere else...
> 
> LOL, that'll teach you for telling us what you've got before it's stable :=)
> Seriously, let me know if I can help; this is a cool service to have. I did
> a bit of NNTP server administration once upon a time so if I can remember
> how these things work and pitch in some support I'd be happy to.

Only thing I need is bandidth. From the admin point of view, dropping INN
has been the best choice I've made in a _very_ long time. Basically zero
maintenance.

Pier


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Re: Mozilla mail filters

[Pier Fumagalli]

"Costin Manolache" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Is this a feed from gmane ?

Nope.

> Does it use the same "mail verification" program?

Messages are delivered to my Qmail, will through SpamAssassin and McAfee for
viruses, if that's what you're asking.

> Do you plan to take the whole feed ( including non apache lists )?

Absolutely not.

Pier


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Re: Mozilla mail filters

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 20/11/02 23:11, "Laurie Harper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Damn, I was enjoying using that ;-) Is it coming back?

Like a bazillion of other people... Folks, you can't just _forbid_ me to
watch my daily porn just because you want news... Once I'm done with this
deadline, I'll move some stuff over somewhere else...

Pier


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Re: Mozilla mail filters

[Pier Fumagalli]

"Laurie Harper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hmm, doesn't seem to be working at all for me :-( Did the server go down?

I took it down yesterday night.

Pier


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Re: Mozilla mail filters

[Pier Fumagalli]

"Pier Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Vincent Massol" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> - how fresh are the messages in the newsgroup? It seems there is a few
>> hours delay between emails and newsgroup. That makes it difficult to use
>> newsgroup in replacement of emails, don't you think?
> 
> Well, to put it that way, when I get them, they are on the newsgroup as
> well... Sometimes there might be some delay because ATM the news server is
> on my ADSL (and if I'm downloading something big, mail takes a while).

There, I got this back in roughly 2 minutes... Not bad...

Pier


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Re: Mozilla mail filters

[Pier Fumagalli]

"Vincent Massol" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Pier, this is great! I would be happy to use newsgroup instead of emails
> but I have 2 questions:

Shoot...

> - how fresh are the messages in the newsgroup? It seems there is a few
> hours delay between emails and newsgroup. That makes it difficult to use
> newsgroup in replacement of emails, don't you think?

Well, to put it that way, when I get them, they are on the newsgroup as
well... Sometimes there might be some delay because ATM the news server is
on my ADSL (and if I'm downloading something big, mail takes a while).

> - what happens if I respond to the group? Does it also go the
> mailing-list? If not, it means it must keep a subscription to the list
> and then I'll get both the emails and the newsgroup items...

Let's put it this way... I am replying to the newsgroup! :-)

Pier


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Re: Mozilla mail filters

[Pier Fumagalli]

"Stéphane MOR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Pier Fumagalli wrote:
> 
>> On 15/11/02 0:50 "Stéphane MOR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>> I think we could link to the file from the "Mailing Lists" section
>>> of jakarta-site2.
>>> 
>>> Any thoughts ?
>>>
>>> 
>> 
>> Yes, start using news.betaversion.org (which will move to news.apache.org
>> once I'm over my friggin deadline), which works with mozilla and filters
>> messages for you (and expires them after one month so that you won't clog up
>> your local cache)...
>> 
> Why not  but how ?
> 
> The only thing that I see when pointing my browser to
> news.betaversion.org is the default welcome page of
> Apache ...
> 
> Am I supposed to use mozilla mail, or ???

Shall I flame now or wait 10 minutes?

Pier


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Re: Mozilla mail filters

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 15/11/02 0:50 "Stéphane MOR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I think we could link to the file from the "Mailing Lists" section
> of jakarta-site2.
> 
> Any thoughts ?

Yes, start using news.betaversion.org (which will move to news.apache.org
once I'm over my friggin deadline), which works with mozilla and filters
messages for you (and expires them after one month so that you won't clog up
your local cache)...

Pier


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Re: Gump changes

[Pier Fumagalli]

"Stefan Bodewig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, Pier Fumagalli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> Huh? Why not leaving it on Nagoya?
> 
> I don't think the "nightly" build is created on Nagoya, but on Sam's
> private machine.

So I'm wondering why the heck I'm running that thing 4 times a day, if at
the end, no one uses it... It's a nice way to waste 4 gigs of RAM, and
roughly 20 gigs of HDD.

Pier


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Re: Gump changes

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 10/11/02 5:06 pm, "Sam Ruby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> A number of gump changes that some might want to be aware of:
> 
> 1) Due to space concerns, gump's output is moving from
> daedalus.apache.org to icarus.apache.org.  This includes build logs, cvs
> extract snapshots, and nightly builds.  If you have any urls which
> reference one of these, simply change the first name in the URL from
> either jakarta or xml to cvs.
> 
> Example: http://cvs.apache.org/builds/gump/latest/

Huh? Why not leaving it on Nagoya? I mean, there is generated, you can live
it there and make few redirects on Daedalus...

> 2) Unless I hear significant objections, I plan to upgrade to JDK 1.4 as
> there are getting to be too many failures as JDK 1.4 specific methods
> are increasingly being used.  Current examples include:

Hmm... Do I need to install 1.4.1 (latest) on Nago, then?

Pier


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Re: [scarab] problems with scarab server

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 9/11/02 8:51 pm, "Jon Scott Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> on 2002/11/8 8:53 PM, "Scott Eade" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> No, Scarab on nagoya is always very slow, almost to the point of being
>> unusable.
> 
> I just need to make it clear that it isn't Scarab that is slow, it is
> nagoya.
> 
> =)

I just need to make it clear that it isn't Nagoya that is slow, it is
MySQL.

=)

Pier


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Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Commons Validator 1.0 Released

[Pier Fumagalli]

"James Turner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The few but proud members of the Commons Validator team are pleased to
> announce the release of Validator 1.0.  This represents a first stable
> release that should allow develops to start using Validator for their
> projects, while we take a moment to reflect and begin development on 1.1
> (or dare we say it, even 2.0) features.
> 
> [...]
> 
> The Validator homepage is located at:
> http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/validator.html

Sorry for the wrong link, the actual home page is at

http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/validator/

(This will save me 100 replies to [EMAIL PROTECTED]) :-)

Pier


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[NEWS] Does this work???

[Pier Fumagalli]

I fixed (hopefully) those error messages seen by someone when I posted the
last message from the newsgroups server (using NNTP)... Can those who wrote
me confirm that it now works?

Thanks...

Pier


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Re: [TEST] Please ignore...

[Pier Fumagalli]

Given that now I'm replying from a newsgroup, in theory, yes...

Pier

On 31/10/02 3:02 "Jeffrey Dever" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> You are safe Pier ... live long and prosper.
> 
> Pier Fumagalli wrote:
> 
>> Either this message goes in the newsgroup or I'm going to kill myself...
>> 
>>Pier
>> 
>> 
>> --
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>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
> 
> 
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[TEST] Please ignore...

[Pier Fumagalli]

Either this message goes in the newsgroup or I'm going to kill myself...

Pier


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Re: Adding Lists to EyeBrowse - how?

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 30/10/02 23:07, "Daniel Rall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Pier Fumagalli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
>> On 30/10/02 22:19, "Pier Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 30/10/02 20:51, "Daniel Rall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>>> 
>>>>> Yeah...  Like POI... sniff...
>>>>> 
>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> EyeBrowse is a great facility - how do we add other Apache mailing
>>>>>> lists to it?
>>>> 
>>>> I took a look at the POI setup on nagoya, and it has the same problem
>>>> that I was complaining about this morning with respect to no mbox
>>>> files available.  They must all be on mail.apache.org.
>>> 
>>> Hold it... Nope... It should be there... The mailing list is hosted on
>>> Nagoya... Sooo...
>> 
>> Fided.. Whoever created the mailing lists forgot to subscribe
>> 
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> 
>> Daniel, you should have now the initial mbox files in the usual place!
> 
> Great!  I'll...uh...not be as quick as Pier.  ;)
> But I'll get to it.

When you got some time... Andy managed without Eyebrowse for ever, he can
manage another few days! :-)

As a sidenote, guys, when you have problems with infrastructure and mail,
please, keep posted also the infrastructure@apache or apmail@apache mailing
lists... There are a lot of more people having a clue over there and not
just me... (And I'm talking about _real_ unix admins! :-)

Thanks.

Pier


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Re: Adding Lists to EyeBrowse - how?

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 30/10/02 22:19, "Pier Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 30/10/02 20:51, "Daniel Rall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> 
>>> Yeah...  Like POI... sniff...
>>> 
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>> 
>>>> EyeBrowse is a great facility - how do we add other Apache mailing
>>>> lists to it?
>> 
>> I took a look at the POI setup on nagoya, and it has the same problem
>> that I was complaining about this morning with respect to no mbox
>> files available.  They must all be on mail.apache.org.
> 
> Hold it... Nope... It should be there... The mailing list is hosted on
> Nagoya... Sooo...

Fided.. Whoever created the mailing lists forgot to subscribe

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Daniel, you should have now the initial mbox files in the usual place!

Pier (doing stuff)


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Re: Adding Lists to EyeBrowse - how?

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 30/10/02 20:51, "Daniel Rall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
>> Yeah...  Like POI... sniff...
>> 
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> 
>>> EyeBrowse is a great facility - how do we add other Apache mailing
>>> lists to it?
> 
> I took a look at the POI setup on nagoya, and it has the same problem
> that I was complaining about this morning with respect to no mbox
> files available.  They must all be on mail.apache.org.

Hold it... Nope... It should be there... The mailing list is hosted on
Nagoya... Sooo... 

Pier (diggin)


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Re: Adding Lists to EyeBrowse - how?

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 30/10/02 7:32 am, "Daniel Rall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm actually working on updating nagoya to the latest Eyebrowse code
> and schema, which contains some bug fixes and drastically increases
> the performance of the ViewLists servlet.

+1 :-) ViewLists


Pier


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 26/10/02 19:25, "Sam Ruby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Pier Fumagalli wrote:
>> 
>> WHO needs to vote? Jakarta or Incubator?
> 
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/management.html
> 
> For Tapestry to become a subproject of Jakarta requires a 3/4 majority
> of the PMC.  I am very interested in getting the incubator team to help
> with the licensing issues and community issues.
> 
> I am optimistic about the outcome as there are plenty of people
> motivated to make this work.

WHO needs to vote? Jakarta or Incubator?

Pier (dumb)


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 26/10/02 16:10, "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> So?  I think Sam and Ken and the rest are committed to making this
> relatively painless (sorry for the cross post, I don't like talking
> about people behind their back...I prefer a more personal approach to
> insults...hehe ;-) ).  I'm committed to avoiding the Apache "the land of
> Catch-22s" Syndrome..  We'll get there.
> 
>> As I said, I'm not a part of this community (not a committer, not a PMC
>> member), neither a member of the Incubator community, but seeing it things
>> from a little bit of distance, WHO needs to vote? Jakarta or Incubator?
>> 
> little details... We'll work them out.  Lets be positive :-)

Experience and history tell me that those are not "little" details, but
let's be positive... As I said, I can't claim right anywhere, so, after
expressing my doubts, I will shut up.

Pier


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 26/10/02 15:20, "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I totally disagree with Pier's statement (and you'll find many here will
> feel the same as I on this).
> 
> The opinion of Tapestry joining is very good.
> 
> Realize Apache is more like a confederation than anything.  So different
> people feel differently.  We're still ironing out a new process as Pier said,
> however most folks I've spoken to have felt that the Apache voting rules must
> be adopted as a first step not later.  Dion and I have both committed to
> helping you with this transition (though I don't think he ever stated so
> publically...Dion?).  And I'll be happy to subscribe to the tapestry list if
> you desire and help you build the structure.

I don't quite understand on what you disagree... I remain in the position of
doubt, I agree completely that (quote) "the Apache voting rules must be
adopted as a first step not later", as I always believed that our voting
system is the key, but Sam (your Jakarta PMC president) is saying:

On 26/10/02 15:12, "Sam Ruby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> I'm +1 overall, but as Peter aluded to previously there are some
> mechanics to be worked out.  This has nothing directly to do with your
> proposal, merely that there is a new "incubator" committee which is in
> the process of forming, and a strong desire for this to be used for
> contributions such as these.
> 
> So, in other words, you may very well get to be a guinee pig.  Whee!
> 
> For a peek into the current status, see http://incubator.apache.org/

Now, this looks like a little bit contradictory to me, you say "let's vote"
(and I assume that the Jakarta community needs to vote), the Jakarta
president says "let's make Incubator vote, and Tapestry be our guinea pig".

As I said, I'm not a part of this community (not a committer, not a PMC
member), neither a member of the Incubator community, but seeing it things
from a little bit of distance, WHO needs to vote? Jakarta or Incubator?

I still keep my reasonable doubt that _right_now_ timing is not right, and
that certain issues about who and where need to be solved before Tapestry,
or any other project FWIW, can land in the Apache sphere...

Pier


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 26/10/02 15:01, "Howard M. Lewis Ship" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> So, this went out about a week ago, and the guidelines only cover as far as
> publishing a proposal on the Jakarta General List.  What is the next step?
> 
> So far, I haven't seen any real negative responses, and a lot of positive
> ones (I think a lot of ex-WebObjects folks are lurking about :-)).  I could
> summarize in more detail if that would be helpful.  Obviously, the PMC
> hasn't really weighed in.  Again, what next?

Not being a committer to any of the Jakarta projects, and not being a PMC
member, I can't say much on this, but from a general feeling that I gather
from different parts of the foundation, I would say that _right_now_ the
timing is not that great because of the "big reorg" going around ASF wide.

But the decision is left to the Jakarta committers and PMC members...

Pier


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Re: Linux Magazine article

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 25/10/02 19:14, "Scott Sanders" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> Is any of this true?  Was Jboss rejected from joining Apache?
> 
> No, Jboss was not rejected from Jakarta.  IIRC, they wanted to join and
> jakarta said 'can we digest what we have first?', and jboss said, 'no
> thanks', and then switched to LGPL.
> 
> Or something like that :)

True, roughly, as well... The first time someone told about a merger it was
probably 2 weeks after Jakarta was born, and at that time (and as always),
we were covered in , between Sun not coming up with the license
agreements for Tomcat, Jserv still pumping hard but going down as being at
the end of the line...

Those were fun times! :-)

Pier (one of the old ladies, but I don't like tea!)


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Re: Linux Magazine article

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 25/10/02 7:17, "James Mitchell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Is it true that Marc had asked to move JBoss over and that it was not
> accepted?

Question floats around from time to time... It always ends up in someone
being flamed badly and nothing happening...

The "wishy-washy" relationship started when, IIRC, when back in the days
(the first time we were told to "join efforts") he called us something like
"old ladies drinking tea", or some stuff like that...

> I guess I was not around during that time (if it ever was).  I had sensed
> (from monitoring the Jboss-users and dev lists early this year) that there
> was a bit of ill sentiment towards the 'Jakarta Love Train' ;)
> 
> I had heard rumors, but never knew what to make of it until I asked him
> directly myself at a JBoss presentation at the local JUG meeting a few
> months back, and his response was something like"nothing but a bunch of
> Sun guys there", but I couldn't make out exactly what he said.
> 
> Is any of this true?  Was Jboss rejected from joining Apache?

It's not true... I believe that the ASF doesn't want to have JBoss on its
list of projects, and JBoss doesn't want to move along and join the ASF...
>From time to time, someone happening to be in both communities at the same
time, thinks it might be a good idea to push for it, and does so...

But at the end, I believe that both communities are really divided and can't
be brought together... Both communities grew from the same seed, Java and
Open Source, but whilst one (Apache) has always been fond of its BSD roots
and moves along the lines, the Jboss one is actually more tied to GPL and
another vision of open source...

I think they both coexist happily in the world, but at the same time I don't
think any one of those should loose its credos to embrace the other
community way of doing things...

And plus, we're more polite, we don't call them "nothing but a bunch of
Fleury's adepts there", or "young kids drinking cocoa" :-)

Pier



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Re: what's the right way to deal with unlicensed code in sandbox?

[Pier Fumagalli]

>>> there are files in daemon which appear to be missing license files. this
>>> should be fixed.

If it's stuff I wrote (as most of the daemon AFAICR), well, then stick the
ASL version 1.1 on it and I'm going to be fine... Sorry, my fault, sometimes
I forget the usual copy-and-paste...

Pier


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Re: Can't get to bug database

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 22/10/02 23:29, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> None of the links off of the Jakarta site to the bug databases are
> working.
> 
> I tried
> 
> http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/
> http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/enter_bug.cgi?product=Ant
> http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/

It should be working right now... My fault, I foobared-up the server
badly... If it doesn't work for you, let me know...

Pier


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Ok, I fucked up...

[Pier Fumagalli]

Whilst trying to help out to solve the situation of Daedalus being
overloaded (Greg Ames and I were trying to split the load from Daedalus onto
Nagoya), I _seriously_ screwed up Nagoya... I'm sorry...

I started off noticing that Nagoya was collapsing (or better, the network
was collapsing) when the traffic was roughly at 5 mbps, although the system
was doing just fine (load average 1.4 with GUMP running).

I figured out it was something to do with the interfaces, and therefore had
Justyna change some cables over in the lab, and after seeing that the
interfaces were still running at 10 mbps half-duplex (for some odd weirdness
that I still didn't understand), I forced them to be a 100 mbps full-duplex
(the switch supports it apparently)...

Well, that was the root of all problems... Forcing the interface at 100 mbps
made the whole network around Nagoya collapse (I suspect, then that the
switch is broken), including Nagoya's console...

Without access to the console, and with the network interfaces sending
random packets on the ethernet segment, the only possible solution was to
physically power-off the system and hope for a better chance of interfaces
auto-configuration at boot-up...

Once I had that done (thank Justy again), I had access to the console
(serial), but at the same time Nagoya didn't want to boot properly, it
wasn't seeing the SCSI/fiber-optics disk array...

That's where I noticed that I fucked up big time... Some times in the past
(like 6 months ago), I removed a bunch of Solaris packages as documented by
Sun Blueprints ("Security through System Minimization"), and since
everything was working, I never actually thought that something bad could
have happened...

Well, what happened was that although the Solaris kernel had still the
modules for the disk array in memory, well, those were not available anymore
on the disk, and therefore, major pain at the next reboot...

Now, I managed to restore the modules, reconfigure the system and have it
up-and-running once again, but at the same time I didn't fix the problem
afflicting the network...

Therefore, Nagoya is up and running as it was before, but it can't really
hold more than 10 mbps half-duplex traffic (therefore 5 mbps of real
bandwidth), because of some random stuff happening on the ethernet
segment...

I'm sorry if everything got really fucked up this afternoon, hopefully the
situation should get back to normal once the various queues on the different
mail systems get flushed...

Justy is going to file a request with Sun's hardware support to try and
figure out why out of the 155 mbps network we have available for Nagoya we
can use only 5 mbps (and why the switch and/or Nagoya's interfaces are
behaving so strangely), but in the meantime, if anyone has experience with a
"3Com SuperStack II 1000 Switch" and Sun HME interfaces please let me
know...

Really sorry about what happened, but I'm a moron and that's more than what
I need to say...

Pier


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 20/10/02 0:40, "Jon Scott Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> on 2002/10/19 4:22 PM, "Pier Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> I want to start a new project for a new Servlet Container that is not
>> Tomcat! :-) Let's see how many fans I'm going to get! :-)
>> 
>>   Pier
> 
> Yea, let's see if we can move Jetty under Jakarta.

Greg is going to kill me! :-) Sourceforge works more than fine for now...
But sure it's damn fast! :-)

Pier


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Tapestry joins Jakarta

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 19/10/02 19:49, "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> So could someone clarify that for me... We're here to promote community
> software developmentas long as they don't overlap?  sorry I totally
> misunderstood the apache way.  (especially with all the overlapping
> projects to the contrary)

I want to start a new project for a new Servlet Container that is not
Tomcat! :-) Let's see how many fans I'm going to get! :-)

Pier


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Re: Bug handling survey - 80:20 rule

[Pier Fumagalli]

"Santiago Gala" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> You're assuming, of course, that you can't have commercial software that
>> *is* open source :-).  Such models do exist -- so I'm assuming you are
>> primarily talking about closed source commercial software.
> 
> This is a very meaningful distinctions. IMO, the fundamental distinction
> here is that of Open vs Closed, not beer-free vs Commercial, where Open
> means Free-freedom (I don't want to go GPL vs BSD here)

I agree wholeheartedly... We're planning to change our servlet container
because we can't get the sources of the one we're using right now. (No, as
of now I'm not a Tomcat user, and probably not even in the future).

The one we use ATM is good, but comes in "binary only" and had already to
decompile the classes TWO TIMES to figure out why some of our web
applications were failing. No fun.

On the other hand, I don't mind paying for a Servlet container which gives
me full access to the source... I have some problem on "live", if I have the
sources, I can check it out and try to fix it... Having the sources is also
beneficial if I want to have a support contract with my container: if I see
a bug, they can tell me to modify and recompile the sources, apply some
patches, we can work together to solve it, instead of being a blind process
of receiving a "jar" file and putting it live...

Pier


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Re: Struts and Tomcat 4.0

[Pier Fumagalli]

I believe they also "tried" to make a JSR out of it, but got shot down
somewhere in the middle... :-(

Pier

On 9/10/02 13:38, "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Cool!  I'm impressed!  I'll have to check that out.
> 
> On Tue, 2002-10-08 at 20:12, Daniel Rall wrote:
>> "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> 
>>> Even if it ties me to an Apache-proprietary template language, trading
>>> that for something less disgusting than JSP seems preferable.
>> 
>> Note that Velocity actually implements a documented specification
>> which any vender can pick up create their own implementation of.
>> -- 
>> 
>> Daniel Rall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> 
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Re: Differences between Structs and Turbine ???

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 8/10/02 23:59, "Jon Scott Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Java is not the fastest technology to develop in, however, it produces the
> best code for the long term.
> 
> PHP is the fastest technology to develop in, however, it produces the
> crappiest code for the long term.

The problem is when you see people using Java as PHP... That _really_ screws
things up... Want some few megs of classes as an example? Nah, you'll hack
in my employer's site in less than 10 minutes! :-)

Pier


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Re: Differences between Structs and Turbine ???

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 9/10/02 3:47, "Berin Loritsch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Even when Quick and Dirty takes longer.  I tried to convince my boss that
> a certain "customization" required so many fundamental changes that it would
> be quicker and easier to develop/maintain if we did it right.  He told me
> that he would never be able to convince the CEO that was the right choice,
> so the "Quick and Dirty" route was the choice--taking me twice as long to
> get it done.

I got out of the same tie today, but I won! :-) And it was about Objects in
PL-SQL... That was a close one! :-)

Pier


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Re: Differences between Structs and Turbine ???

[Pier Fumagalli]

"Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> So putting out crap code that you have to toggle and mess with over and
> over again is where the money is at in web app development.  So what is
> the solution?  There isn't one...web app development is still a big
> hairy mess.  Choice is good. ;-)

Well put, not only this last part, but the whole...

True, XML is a good approach from a technical point of view, but unusable
from some others (don't ask me to teach XSLT to our web guys, please!).

JSPs can work for some, but they definitely introduce drawbacks when
thinking how they are implemented (they destroy my servlet container).

Velocity is simple, doesn't mess around with my servlets, but it's
interpreted.

Tea is fast, quite easy, but again the syntax is bad...

There is _no_optimal_ solution... Just the one that works for you...

Pier


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Re: Differences between Structs and Turbine ???

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 8/10/02 3:09 am, "Jon Scott Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> What does "c" stand for? Oh wait...explain that to your designers. Also, I
> believe you forgot a bunch of other junk that you have to put at the top of
> the file or in configuration files to configure what "c" means anyway.
> 
> It is quite funny to me to see you try to justify something that is
> obviously more difficult to understand and write.

I just _wish_ I could send you the source of this: 

It's a JSP, using 6 different tag libraries, a collection of roughly 30/40
different tags, and spread across (I believe) 10? different files...

I haven't seen something worse in a _long_ time... Especially when to
redirect images to the images server, your tags start looking like:



Tag'na tag... That's QTE... Bah...

Pier (I'm going to go on holiday, soon)


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Re: Differences between Structs and Turbine ???

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 8/10/02 1:30 am, "Jon Scott Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> on 2002/10/7 5:21 PM, "Pier Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> JSPs are the "root of all evil" because HTMLers think to have the power (and
>> obligation, after a while) to blatantly destroy your entire container in
>> less than 2 minutes of uptime... To that respect, even ASP are better...
> 
> It is so nice to hear you say that finally Pier. =)

I still think that the optimal solution is a true SOC using XML, but the
world is too stupid to understand that... All everyone wants is a quick and
dirty solution...

Pier


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Re: Differences between Structs and Turbine ???

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 8/10/02 1:12, "Scott Eade" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> But the Velocity is much easier to teach to a web designer (non-programmer)
> than the JSP.
> http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/ymtd/ymtd.html

More than easier to teach, is that it _forbids_ them to do what they're not
supposed to do... Code... Otherwise, where will I get my salary from? (Well,
I can still get it if I have to restart our main Servlet engine 5 times a
day, but boy, that's bring).

BTW,  should be
extended... It doesn't tell you all those sort of damages that a JSP can do
to your host environment...

Pier


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Re: Differences between Structs and Turbine ???

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 8/10/02 1:13, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> And to resurface the old issue, this is so much worse than
> 
> #if (..)
> #end
> 
> in Velocity...?

I believe that Andy doesn't quite know what "templates" are ! :-) Dude,
we're not talking about the beauty of XML around here, but stuff that
Macromedia DreamWeaver can parse and (somehow) render! :-)

Definitely "templating" is not an elegant approach, but it works. At least
Tea and Velocity are not "compiled" straight into Java Code (therefore
killing all HTMLers who thought they can "code" in Java, but in fact only
producing tons of OutOfMemoryExceptions).

More than "separation of concerns" using something better compared to JSP is
a headache wonder (go and try to figure out where an OutOfMemoryException
comes from, just to discover that in one of your 5000 JSPs you have an idiot
playing around with Sessions, or why your database is hosed, and find out
that some other lame creep is forgetting to call "connection.close()"...
Arrrggghh)...

JSPs are the "root of all evil" because HTMLers think to have the power (and
obligation, after a while) to blatantly destroy your entire container in
less than 2 minutes of uptime... To that respect, even ASP are better...

Pier


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Re: Differences between Structs and Turbine ???

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 8/10/02 0:18, "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Looks like kind of a mickey mouse version of JSP to me...  ;-) (I just
> couldn't resist...I just couldn't!)

It is, actually, but more than Mickey Mouse, it's the "Speedy Gonzales"
version of JSP, given that per equivalent template (and rewriting tag
libraries in Tea Applications), we kinda get a 3x performance boost! :-)

Plus it has its own editor, Kettle, (kinda Goofy, but far from being a cheap
Scrooge version of an IDE), and it's BSD (thanks to our Brian "Donald"
Behlendorf who lured them into believing that Open Source is a "good
thing").

Quack


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Re: Differences between Structs and Turbine ???

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 7/10/02 22:01, "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> While I think there are places that struts could learn a lot from
> turbine...  Struts has a bit more "design cohesion" shall we say?  Where
> turbine is a bit moreorganic in places.
> 
> The nice thing about Turbine is that it does favor containment over
> inheritance, same thing with Struts (not necessarily so with Avalon +
> friends).  The bad thing is that Turbine is all things to all people in
> some ways..  
> 
> I think I kinda like Turbine better than Struts...but the verdict isn't
> out yet.  (Bias:  I think JSP sucks equine hybrid reproductive
> organs..correction...I think that about ASP... JSP I think of as ASP
> with its father run off ;-) )

http://opensource.go.com/

Pier


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Re: [Poll result] Committers, who are we?

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 5/10/02 6:22, "Craig R. McClanahan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I appreciate the willingness of Pier (and others) to work there.  All I
> can say is that *not* moving to the Bay Area was a condition of me
> accepting my job at Sun ... :-)

Aw, Craig, ye olde man... It's just the sunshine, the beaches, and the
parties that matter

> Craig McClanahan (happily working from Portland, Oregon)

Even rainier than London, I heard...

Pier (metereopathic)


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Re: [Poll result] Committers, who are we?

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 4/10/02 14:49, "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'd be more interested to hear statistics on how many people are
> California-based versus non-California based.  (It would help me with my
> research into Apache cultures and cliches ;-) for a paper I'm writing )

More than "being" in CA, I would say, how many of us have "been there" and
did the "Silicon Valley" thing... I'm saying that because I spent 2 years in
CA, and feel strongly related to that environment... Only thing is now I
live in London (UK)...

Pier


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Re: [Poll result] Committers, who are we?

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 3/10/02 15:35, "Danny Angus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 2/are we
> a) young
> b) 20-30
> c) 30-40
> d) 40-50
> d) old

My mother would _kill_ your for saying that over-50 is "old"

Pier


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Re: [Announce][HttpClient] New mailing list httpclient-dev

[Pier Fumagalli]

The reconfiguration of the mailing list is now done... It should be all
archived now, with digests and stuff...

Pier


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Re: [Announce][HttpClient] New mailing list httpclient-dev

[Pier Fumagalli]

"Jeff Dever" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> A new mailing list on Jakarta was created today for the Commons
> HttpClient project.  You can subscribe to this list by sending email to:
> 
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> This list is ment for *all* development traffic related to HttpClient,
> including: discussions, cvs commit messages, and bug reports.  No
> particular string is needed in the subject field when posting to this
> list.
> 
> Any voting will still be held on the commons-dev list with at least
> [httpclient] in the subject line.
> 
> No doubt that many of us will still monitor the commons-dev list, but
> all HttpClient traffic should be moved to the new httpclient-dev list.
> Please feel free to subscribe if you are interested, and don't forget to
> adjust your mail filters!
> 
> PS: Thanks to Justyna Horwat at Sun for creating the new list.
> 
> Jeff Dever
> HttpClient 2.0 release manager

I'll have to re-create the mailing list, since it wasn't created correctly,
and it doesn't get archived and stuff.. Everything should be transparent...

Pier


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Re: Jakarta.apache.org and Spam or junk mail threshold

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 29/9/02 10:49 am, "Mr Dion Gillard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> -
> SMTP Protocol Returned a Permanent Error 553 Spam or
> junk mail threshold exceeded. See
> http://www.flame.org/qmail/spamjunk.html (#5.7.1)
> -
> 
> Searching their database results in a 500 http
> response :-(

(quoting)


flame.org's qmail mods: Junk/Spam Filtering
The message you tried to send was rejected. If you feel this is in error,
contact the postmater at the site you were mailing to.

If you are a postmaster and are getting double bounces in your mailbox
because of flame.org's filtering, it is most likely:

*Someone at your site is trying to mailbomb/spam someone at my site.
*Someone at your site is trying to mailbomb/spam someone at a third
  site, using my host as a gateway.
*Someone at a third site is trying to mailbomb/spam someone, using your
site as a gateway. 
Check your mail logs for more info.

For the first two, hit your user with a clue-by-four. For the second, stop
being an open festering wound on the internet, and stop letting people relay
junk through you. 

If you are confused about this, contact your ISP for more information.


> Any suggestions?

Write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for those kind of stuff, and it'll be better to
see also a message with full headers

Pier


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Re: Issue tracking

[Pier Fumagalli]

IIRC /opt/mysql/bin/mysqlclient

Pier

On 27/9/02 2:47 am, "John McNally" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Thank you.  Now is there a mysql client on this box?
> 
> john mcnally
> 
> On Thu, 2002-09-26 at 17:31, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
>> On 26/9/02 22:54, "Pier Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>>> Emacs? I don¹t see the reason for a 25 megs editor on a server machine
>> 
>> Err... Correction, just compiled version 21.2 and it's actually 121 Mb...
>> It's as big as my entire home server operating system (NetBSD 1.6)... DOH!
>> 
>> Oh, good old beloved "vi" (220 Kb)
>> 
>> Pier
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 


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