Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
The practical value doesn't depend on how it started. Yes, I could say all sorts of things about how the mob interpreted "Liberté, égalité, fraternité", but it doesn't change the fact that nobody understands the English system of units. How many gills in a gallon? (That's a trick question; it depends on which kind of gallon.) How many ounces in a ton? Can you convert furlongs per fortnight to miles per hour? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Tony Thigpen [t...@vse2pdf.com] Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 4:18 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? Yes, it started as a 'fad'. If you look at what happened, the French were beheading all the royalty just because "royalty is bad" and they wanted a new measurement system because the old one could be traced back to royalty so therefore that old measurement system was also "bad" by association. Sounds like the same thing that happens every season in Paris. The old clothing is "out" and the new clothing is "in". Like I said, "fads". (I wonder if the 'f' in fads should stand for 'French'?) :-) Tony Thigpen Bob Bridges wrote on 7/20/20 4:03 PM: > This interests me. I'm sort of on Seymour's side on this one, Tony; I > learned the metric system in high-school chemistry and mildly prefer it. > While I gotta admire anyone with the stick-to-it-iveness it takes to call it > a "fad" after two hundred years and 192 out of 195 countries, I'm persuaded > by the practical value of decimal units. > > You say that's only "a small part of the 'standard' ", but I would have > said, if asked, that it was the whole point. What other reason would anyone > have to adopt SI units? Well, aside from the 192/195-countries thing, of > course, which I suppose ain't chopped liver - but that came later, so I > don't count it. > > --- > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > /* A ship in harbour is safe. But that's not what a ship is for. */ > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 08:38 > > We are no more immune to Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of > Crowds than any other country, and our society has massive conformity in > many areas. Even many who want to rebel find a marginal group to rebel in > conformity with. People accept the most ludicrous claims because others in > their in group accept them. Koolaid, anybody? > > As to SI units, there are practical reasons for adopting them. Do we really > want to stick with a system of units that few of us understand, with the > same name denoting different quantities depending on context? > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Tony Thigpen > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 08:36 > > This is a fun Monday discussion. :-) > > I did not say anything about decimal arithmetic, either for nor against. > I was discussing this fad called SI and how it was a standard looking > for a base. The fact that it uses base-10 arithmetic may add to it's > popularity, but that is only one small part of the 'standard'. > > --- Martin Packer wrote on 7/20/20 8:13 AM: >> So you don't rate decimal arithmetic? :-) So how do you explain dollars >> and cents? :-) >> >> --- >> From: Tony Thigpen >> Date: 20/07/2020 12:41 >> >> We are an independent sort of people. We don't blindly follow others >> after the latest fad, like SI units. SI units are not really built on >> something real, but instead are a unit that looked for a base item that >> 'fit' into the new perception of reality. >> >> --- Wayne Bickerdike wrote on 7/20/20 12:50 AM: >>> Odd how the USA hangs on to impractical learnings. Even the UK moved to >>> SI units while I was at school in the 1960s. >>> >>> Took me a while to get used to a gallon that isn't a gallon and a pint >>> that isn't a pint (16 oz vs 20 oz.). You also short changed the ton by >>> 240 lbs. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
This interests me. I'm sort of on Seymour's side on this one, Tony; I learned the metric system in high-school chemistry and mildly prefer it. While I gotta admire anyone with the stick-to-it-iveness it takes to call it a "fad" after two hundred years and 192 out of 195 countries, I'm persuaded by the practical value of decimal units. You say that's only "a small part of the 'standard' ", but I would have said, if asked, that it was the whole point. What other reason would anyone have to adopt SI units? Well, aside from the 192/195-countries thing, of course, which I suppose ain't chopped liver - but that came later, so I don't count it. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* A ship in harbour is safe. But that's not what a ship is for. */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 08:38 We are no more immune to Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds than any other country, and our society has massive conformity in many areas. Even many who want to rebel find a marginal group to rebel in conformity with. People accept the most ludicrous claims because others in their in group accept them. Koolaid, anybody? As to SI units, there are practical reasons for adopting them. Do we really want to stick with a system of units that few of us understand, with the same name denoting different quantities depending on context? -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tony Thigpen Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 08:36 This is a fun Monday discussion. :-) I did not say anything about decimal arithmetic, either for nor against. I was discussing this fad called SI and how it was a standard looking for a base. The fact that it uses base-10 arithmetic may add to it's popularity, but that is only one small part of the 'standard'. --- Martin Packer wrote on 7/20/20 8:13 AM: > So you don't rate decimal arithmetic? :-) So how do you explain dollars > and cents? :-) > > --- > From: Tony Thigpen > Date: 20/07/2020 12:41 > > We are an independent sort of people. We don't blindly follow others > after the latest fad, like SI units. SI units are not really built on > something real, but instead are a unit that looked for a base item that > 'fit' into the new perception of reality. > > --- Wayne Bickerdike wrote on 7/20/20 12:50 AM: >> Odd how the USA hangs on to impractical learnings. Even the UK moved to >> SI units while I was at school in the 1960s. >> >> Took me a while to get used to a gallon that isn't a gallon and a pint >> that isn't a pint (16 oz vs 20 oz.). You also short changed the ton by >> 240 lbs. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Well, the English Inch and the American inch were both defined as 3 barley corns. But the lengths were slightly different. So in 1959 they set the international inch as 25.4 mm, which was between the two values and less than 1/1000 for the larger change from the old value. On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 3:04 PM Bob Bridges wrote: > > This interests me. I'm sort of on Seymour's side on this one, Tony; I > learned the metric system in high-school chemistry and mildly prefer it. > While I gotta admire anyone with the stick-to-it-iveness it takes to call it > a "fad" after two hundred years and 192 out of 195 countries, I'm persuaded > by the practical value of decimal units. > > You say that's only "a small part of the 'standard' ", but I would have > said, if asked, that it was the whole point. What other reason would anyone > have to adopt SI units? Well, aside from the 192/195-countries thing, of > course, which I suppose ain't chopped liver - but that came later, so I > don't count it. > > --- > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > /* A ship in harbour is safe. But that's not what a ship is for. */ > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 08:38 > > We are no more immune to Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of > Crowds than any other country, and our society has massive conformity in > many areas. Even many who want to rebel find a marginal group to rebel in > conformity with. People accept the most ludicrous claims because others in > their in group accept them. Koolaid, anybody? > > As to SI units, there are practical reasons for adopting them. Do we really > want to stick with a system of units that few of us understand, with the > same name denoting different quantities depending on context? > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Tony Thigpen > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 08:36 > > This is a fun Monday discussion. :-) > > I did not say anything about decimal arithmetic, either for nor against. > I was discussing this fad called SI and how it was a standard looking > for a base. The fact that it uses base-10 arithmetic may add to it's > popularity, but that is only one small part of the 'standard'. > > --- Martin Packer wrote on 7/20/20 8:13 AM: > > So you don't rate decimal arithmetic? :-) So how do you explain dollars > > and cents? :-) > > > > --- > > From: Tony Thigpen > > Date: 20/07/2020 12:41 > > > > We are an independent sort of people. We don't blindly follow others > > after the latest fad, like SI units. SI units are not really built on > > something real, but instead are a unit that looked for a base item that > > 'fit' into the new perception of reality. > > > > --- Wayne Bickerdike wrote on 7/20/20 12:50 AM: > >> Odd how the USA hangs on to impractical learnings. Even the UK moved to > >> SI units while I was at school in the 1960s. > >> > >> Took me a while to get used to a gallon that isn't a gallon and a pint > >> that isn't a pint (16 oz vs 20 oz.). You also short changed the ton by > >> 240 lbs. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
You had me convinced, Tony :). I've recently started using "Google", capitalized, to mean Google, but the lower-case verb "google" to mean simply that I searched for something on-line. (By habit I use AltaVista, actually. So I'm an old fart - so sue me.) So when I finally noticed that you were saying "google" and not "Google", I thought maybe you were referring to the internet generally, not Wikipedia specifically. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* The results are astounding. I've seen the before and after photographs, and let me tell you, in just a few weeks the women go from having tired, sagging, wrinkly skin to having a new haircut and expert makeup. -W Bruce Cameron, 2010 */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tony Thigpen Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 09:59 OK. OK, I now see how I was not communicating it correctly. At one point when I was talking about Wikipedia, I started using the term 'google'. And, yes, I was incorrect. I intended to be talking about Wikipedia, not Google. I guess my age is now showing. :-( --- Jeremy Nicoll wrote on 7/20/20 9:47 AM: > Well in that case perhaps you'd care to explain to /me/ what you meant by > > ... when I said that google is not an authority. Anybody can write > just about anything into google. > > I know of no way that I can "write ... anything into google". > > Yes, I could edit a Wikipedia article that google could allow other people to > find, but you seem certain that you really DID mean google. > > Please explain. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Yes, it started as a 'fad'. If you look at what happened, the French were beheading all the royalty just because "royalty is bad" and they wanted a new measurement system because the old one could be traced back to royalty so therefore that old measurement system was also "bad" by association. Sounds like the same thing that happens every season in Paris. The old clothing is "out" and the new clothing is "in". Like I said, "fads". (I wonder if the 'f' in fads should stand for 'French'?) :-) Tony Thigpen Bob Bridges wrote on 7/20/20 4:03 PM: This interests me. I'm sort of on Seymour's side on this one, Tony; I learned the metric system in high-school chemistry and mildly prefer it. While I gotta admire anyone with the stick-to-it-iveness it takes to call it a "fad" after two hundred years and 192 out of 195 countries, I'm persuaded by the practical value of decimal units. You say that's only "a small part of the 'standard' ", but I would have said, if asked, that it was the whole point. What other reason would anyone have to adopt SI units? Well, aside from the 192/195-countries thing, of course, which I suppose ain't chopped liver - but that came later, so I don't count it. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* A ship in harbour is safe. But that's not what a ship is for. */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 08:38 We are no more immune to Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds than any other country, and our society has massive conformity in many areas. Even many who want to rebel find a marginal group to rebel in conformity with. People accept the most ludicrous claims because others in their in group accept them. Koolaid, anybody? As to SI units, there are practical reasons for adopting them. Do we really want to stick with a system of units that few of us understand, with the same name denoting different quantities depending on context? -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tony Thigpen Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 08:36 This is a fun Monday discussion. :-) I did not say anything about decimal arithmetic, either for nor against. I was discussing this fad called SI and how it was a standard looking for a base. The fact that it uses base-10 arithmetic may add to it's popularity, but that is only one small part of the 'standard'. --- Martin Packer wrote on 7/20/20 8:13 AM: So you don't rate decimal arithmetic? :-) So how do you explain dollars and cents? :-) --- From: Tony Thigpen Date: 20/07/2020 12:41 We are an independent sort of people. We don't blindly follow others after the latest fad, like SI units. SI units are not really built on something real, but instead are a unit that looked for a base item that 'fit' into the new perception of reality. --- Wayne Bickerdike wrote on 7/20/20 12:50 AM: Odd how the USA hangs on to impractical learnings. Even the UK moved to SI units while I was at school in the 1960s. Took me a while to get used to a gallon that isn't a gallon and a pint that isn't a pint (16 oz vs 20 oz.). You also short changed the ton by 240 lbs. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Not gonna sue you, but you realize AltaVista died in 2003, right? You’re using Yahoo, whose continued existence is a mystery to all. On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 3:52 PM Bob Bridges wrote: > You had me convinced, Tony :). I've recently started using "Google", > capitalized, to mean Google, but the lower-case verb "google" to mean > simply > that I searched for something on-line. (By habit I use AltaVista, > actually. > So I'm an old fart - so sue me.) So when I finally noticed that you were > saying "google" and not "Google", I thought maybe you were referring to the > internet generally, not Wikipedia specifically. > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
And FINGERing each other??? :-) Tony Thigpen Seymour J Metz wrote on 7/20/20 9:20 PM: IMHO we'd all be better off with Gopher instead of the WWW. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Mike Schwab [mike.a.sch...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 8:35 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? Well, at least he didn't claim to be using Archie, or Veronica. On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 7:20 PM zMan wrote: Not gonna sue you, but you realize AltaVista died in 2003, right? You’re using Yahoo, whose continued existence is a mystery to all. On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 3:52 PM Bob Bridges wrote: You had me convinced, Tony :). I've recently started using "Google", capitalized, to mean Google, but the lower-case verb "google" to mean simply that I searched for something on-line. (By habit I use AltaVista, actually. So I'm an old fart - so sue me.) So when I finally noticed that you were saying "google" and not "Google", I thought maybe you were referring to the internet generally, not Wikipedia specifically. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
These days everybody has disabled the finger port, except on the coke machine. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Tony Thigpen [t...@vse2pdf.com] Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 9:26 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? And FINGERing each other??? :-) Tony Thigpen Seymour J Metz wrote on 7/20/20 9:20 PM: > IMHO we'd all be better off with Gopher instead of the WWW. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of > Mike Schwab [mike.a.sch...@gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 8:35 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > Well, at least he didn't claim to be using Archie, or Veronica. > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 7:20 PM zMan wrote: >> >> Not gonna sue you, but you realize AltaVista died in 2003, right? You’re >> using Yahoo, whose continued existence is a mystery to all. >> >> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 3:52 PM Bob Bridges wrote: >> >>> You had me convinced, Tony :). I've recently started using "Google", >>> capitalized, to mean Google, but the lower-case verb "google" to mean >>> simply >>> that I searched for something on-line. (By habit I use AltaVista, >>> actually. >>> So I'm an old fart - so sue me.) So when I finally noticed that you were >>> saying "google" and not "Google", I thought maybe you were referring to the >>> internet generally, not Wikipedia specifically. >>> >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > -- > Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA > Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
It disturbs me that I agree with Shmuel three times in as many days. Tony, what's your mass here lately after Insanity-19? Let's have it in slugs, please, since that's the unit. Take you a dram and a scruple; add in a grain or two for precision, but make sure you convert it to mass. American standard--Imperial units; they're rubbish. Abject garbage. SI is not a fad, despite its origins. No fan of the "French;" no fan of "Trump;" no fan of anything political. But SI, revised a couple times or three, is a beautiful system of units in which one may compute physics. If you disagree, then I assert you have a challenge understanding many things about physics. I'm talking about mechanics and fluid dynamics. I'm too stupid for E, although the same equivalency attempts apply there. P.S. Apparently Imperial units have been redefined as relative to SI. Imagine that. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Imperial-unit P.P.S. This reminds me of many conversations with my father. He absolutely couldn't stand this type of thing, i.e. SI being obviously superior. I don't get it. It is what it is. As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but I have this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every time I say them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life is Celsius degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, since they're exactly the same thing, I find it easier to talk in Kelvins rather than Celsius degrees. Maybe I just like starting at zero. :) I couldn't tell you what absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I guess I never cared. First Horizon Bank Mainframe Technical Support -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 5:02 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.] The practical value doesn't depend on how it started. Yes, I could say all sorts of things about how the mob interpreted "Liberté, égalité, fraternité", but it doesn't change the fact that nobody understands the English system of units. How many gills in a gallon? (That's a trick question; it depends on which kind of gallon.) How many ounces in a ton? Can you convert furlongs per fortnight to miles per hour? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 nstructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Confidentiality notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of this message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this e-mail message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this e-mail message from your computer. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_zero Absolute 0 is 0K, 0R, -273.15C, -459.67F. Freezing point of water is 273.15K, 491.67R, 0C, 32F. On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:23 PM Jackson, Rob wrote: > > It disturbs me that I agree with Shmuel three times in as many days. > > Tony, what's your mass here lately after Insanity-19? Let's have it in > slugs, please, since that's the unit. Take you a dram and a scruple; add in > a grain or two for precision, but make sure you convert it to mass. > > American standard--Imperial units; they're rubbish. Abject garbage. SI is > not a fad, despite its origins. No fan of the "French;" no fan of "Trump;" > no fan of anything political. But SI, revised a couple times or three, is a > beautiful system of units in which one may compute physics. If you disagree, > then I assert you have a challenge understanding many things about physics. > I'm talking about mechanics and fluid dynamics. I'm too stupid for E, > although the same equivalency attempts apply there. > > P.S. Apparently Imperial units have been redefined as relative to SI. > Imagine that. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Imperial-unit > > P.P.S. This reminds me of many conversations with my father. He absolutely > couldn't stand this type of thing, i.e. SI being obviously superior. I don't > get it. It is what it is. > > As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but I have > this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every time I say > them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life is Celsius > degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, since they're exactly > the same thing, I find it easier to talk in Kelvins rather than Celsius > degrees. Maybe I just like starting at zero. :) I couldn't tell you what > absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I guess I never cared. > > First Horizon Bank > Mainframe Technical Support > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of > Seymour J Metz > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 5:02 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.] > > The practical value doesn't depend on how it started. Yes, I could say all > sorts of things about how the mob interpreted "Liberté, égalité, fraternité", > but it doesn't change the fact that nobody understands the English system of > units. How many gills in a gallon? (That's a trick question; it depends on > which kind of gallon.) How many ounces in a ton? Can you convert furlongs per > fortnight to miles per hour? > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > nstructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO > IBM-MAIN > Confidentiality notice: > This e-mail message, including any attachments, may contain legally > privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended > recipient(s), or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of this > message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any > dissemination, distribution, or copying of this e-mail message is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately > notify the sender and delete this e-mail message from your computer. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Well, at least he didn't claim to be using Archie, or Veronica. On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 7:20 PM zMan wrote: > > Not gonna sue you, but you realize AltaVista died in 2003, right? You’re > using Yahoo, whose continued existence is a mystery to all. > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 3:52 PM Bob Bridges wrote: > > > You had me convinced, Tony :). I've recently started using "Google", > > capitalized, to mean Google, but the lower-case verb "google" to mean > > simply > > that I searched for something on-line. (By habit I use AltaVista, > > actually. > > So I'm an old fart - so sue me.) So when I finally noticed that you were > > saying "google" and not "Google", I thought maybe you were referring to the > > internet generally, not Wikipedia specifically. > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
IMHO we'd all be better off with Gopher instead of the WWW. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Mike Schwab [mike.a.sch...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 8:35 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? Well, at least he didn't claim to be using Archie, or Veronica. On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 7:20 PM zMan wrote: > > Not gonna sue you, but you realize AltaVista died in 2003, right? You’re > using Yahoo, whose continued existence is a mystery to all. > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 3:52 PM Bob Bridges wrote: > > > You had me convinced, Tony :). I've recently started using "Google", > > capitalized, to mean Google, but the lower-case verb "google" to mean > > simply > > that I searched for something on-line. (By habit I use AltaVista, > > actually. > > So I'm an old fart - so sue me.) So when I finally noticed that you were > > saying "google" and not "Google", I thought maybe you were referring to the > > internet generally, not Wikipedia specifically. > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Thanks, Mike. I worry the point will be lost. -459.67 degrees Fahrenheit. Yup; makes perfect sense. Slides in so well with the other Imperial units. First Horizon Bank Mainframe Technical Support -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mike Schwab Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 11:59 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_zero Absolute 0 is 0K, 0R, -273.15C, -459.67F. Freezing point of water is 273.15K, 491.67R, 0C, 32F. On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:23 PM Jackson, Rob wrote: > > It disturbs me that I agree with Shmuel three times in as many days. > > Tony, what's your mass here lately after Insanity-19? Let's have it in > slugs, please, since that's the unit. Take you a dram and a scruple; add in > a grain or two for precision, but make sure you convert it to mass. > > American standard--Imperial units; they're rubbish. Abject garbage. SI is > not a fad, despite its origins. No fan of the "French;" no fan of "Trump;" > no fan of anything political. But SI, revised a couple times or three, is a > beautiful system of units in which one may compute physics. If you disagree, > then I assert you have a challenge understanding many things about physics. > I'm talking about mechanics and fluid dynamics. I'm too stupid for E, > although the same equivalency attempts apply there. > > P.S. Apparently Imperial units have been redefined as relative to SI. > Imagine that. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Imperial-unit > > P.P.S. This reminds me of many conversations with my father. He absolutely > couldn't stand this type of thing, i.e. SI being obviously superior. I don't > get it. It is what it is. > > As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but I have > this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every time I say > them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life is Celsius > degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, since they're exactly > the same thing, I find it easier to talk in Kelvins rather than Celsius > degrees. Maybe I just like starting at zero. :) I couldn't tell you what > absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I guess I never cared. > > First Horizon Bank > Mainframe Technical Support > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 5:02 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening > attachments.] > > The practical value doesn't depend on how it started. Yes, I could say all > sorts of things about how the mob interpreted "Liberté, égalité, fraternité", > but it doesn't change the fact that nobody understands the English system of > units. How many gills in a gallon? (That's a trick question; it depends on > which kind of gallon.) How many ounces in a ton? Can you convert furlongs per > fortnight to miles per hour? > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > nstructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: > INFO IBM-MAIN Confidentiality notice: > This e-mail message, including any attachments, may contain legally > privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended > recipient(s), or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of this > message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any > dissemination, distribution, or copying of this e-mail message is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately > notify the sender and delete this e-mail message from your computer. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Multi-channel OSA-ICC routing and TCP port behavior
Brian Westerman wrote: >So you are using TCP to get to them inside the ICC, but they >are technically local 3270 terminals. I think you can make >some of them printers if you want, but that seems like a waste. I recently worked with an organization that configured an OSA-ICC TN3270E printer session, and it makes sense for them. They did this because one of the TCP/IP products available for z/VSE, the one they use, includes a TN3270E server that is limited to display terminal sessions and does not support printer sessions. This particular organization uses the TCP/IP product's TN3270E server for display sessions, but they also have a line printer they need to continue running. Previously, historically, the line printer was coax attached to an IBM 3174 Establishment Controller. The same line printer is now connected via OSA-ICC's TN3270E server and continues to behave like a terminal-attached printer, with IBM Personal Communications in the middle handling the emulation. Direct would have been nice, and technically the printer can directly connect via a TN3270E printer session (it has a built-in TN3270E client), but for some weird reason when the line printer operates using a different connection it unavoidably changes "personalities" and won't interpret the same data stream the same way. That's how the printer is designed, not something that can be changed. So rather than reconfigure z/VSE's output to adjust the print data stream, they inserted IBM Personal Communications in the middle to accept the original data stream then handle some very light reformatting before passing it on to the printer via LPR/LPD protocol. This arrangement works! - - - - - - - - - - Timothy Sipples I.T. Architect Executive Digital Asset & Other Industry Solutions IBM Z & LinuxONE - - - - - - - - - - E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Always interesting, if you like words (and I do). Thanks. "Google", you say? Google isn't the source of my information, only the warehouse (so to speak). The first source I quoted was Mr Davy himself. But maybe you meant Wikipedia; a lot of people express varying amounts of derision when they hear Wikipedia mentioned. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* The arguments against state-controlled churches apply with equal force to state-run schools. No free society allows the state to claim authority over the mind. -Joseph Sobran */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tony Thigpen Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 18:19 Personally, I prefer a more authoritative source than Google, but it is almost the same story: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/aluminum-vs-aluminium --- Bob Bridges wrote on 7/19/20 6:09 PM: > Because I know you were all breathlessly awaiting the verdict on the great > "aluminum"/"aluminium" controversy, I went to find more information. At > https://books.google.com/books?id=YjMwYAAJ=PA201 you can find a page > in _Elements of Chemical Philosophy_ by Humphrey Davy (who first isolated > aluminum), published in 1812; here he talks about "aluminum" (a metal to be > found in alumina, which in turn was processed from alum). Wikipedia > (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium) says this about the name: > > "British chemist Humphry Davy, who performed a number of experiments aimed to > isolate the metal, is credited as the person who named the element. In 1808, > he suggested the metal be named alumium in an article on his electrochemical > research which was published in Philosophical Transactions of the Royal > Society. This suggestion was criticized by contemporary chemists from France, > Germany, and Sweden, who insisted the metal should be named for the oxide, > alumina, from which it would be isolated. In 1812, Davy published a chemistry > textbook in which he settled on the name aluminum, thus producing the modern > name. However, its spelling and pronunciation varies: aluminum is in use in > the United States and Canada while aluminium is in use elsewhere." > > That sounds plausible to me. > > -Original Message- > From: Bob Bridges [mailto:robhbrid...@gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 17:34 > > Aha! Yet a third story; in this one Davy started out with "aluminum" and the > Europeans ~added~ the 'i'. > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Joe Monk > Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 07:22 > > The British Scientist (Davy) who discovered ALUMINUM named it that. It is > we Americans who are using the correct name ... the British press felt that > it should be in line with sodium and potassium and thus added to the > spelling. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Bob, I was referring to your "Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium) says this about the name:" quote when I said that google is not an authority. Anybody can write just about anything into google. Most teachers will not allow quotes from google due to the mess that google is in. The people at Merrian-Webster have always been considered authoritative. If we can't trust the people that produce of the the top dictionaries, then we are lost. In this case, I was saying that "here is a much more authoritative site that backs up most of the story posted on google." Tony Thigpen Bob Bridges wrote on 7/20/20 2:04 AM: Always interesting, if you like words (and I do). Thanks. "Google", you say? Google isn't the source of my information, only the warehouse (so to speak). The first source I quoted was Mr Davy himself. But maybe you meant Wikipedia; a lot of people express varying amounts of derision when they hear Wikipedia mentioned. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* The arguments against state-controlled churches apply with equal force to state-run schools. No free society allows the state to claim authority over the mind. -Joseph Sobran */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tony Thigpen Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 18:19 Personally, I prefer a more authoritative source than Google, but it is almost the same story: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/aluminum-vs-aluminium --- Bob Bridges wrote on 7/19/20 6:09 PM: Because I know you were all breathlessly awaiting the verdict on the great "aluminum"/"aluminium" controversy, I went to find more information. At https://books.google.com/books?id=YjMwYAAJ=PA201 you can find a page in _Elements of Chemical Philosophy_ by Humphrey Davy (who first isolated aluminum), published in 1812; here he talks about "aluminum" (a metal to be found in alumina, which in turn was processed from alum). Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium) says this about the name: "British chemist Humphry Davy, who performed a number of experiments aimed to isolate the metal, is credited as the person who named the element. In 1808, he suggested the metal be named alumium in an article on his electrochemical research which was published in Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society. This suggestion was criticized by contemporary chemists from France, Germany, and Sweden, who insisted the metal should be named for the oxide, alumina, from which it would be isolated. In 1812, Davy published a chemistry textbook in which he settled on the name aluminum, thus producing the modern name. However, its spelling and pronunciation varies: aluminum is in use in the United States and Canada while aluminium is in use elsewhere." That sounds plausible to me. -Original Message- From: Bob Bridges [mailto:robhbrid...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 17:34 Aha! Yet a third story; in this one Davy started out with "aluminum" and the Europeans ~added~ the 'i'. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Joe Monk Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 07:22 The British Scientist (Davy) who discovered ALUMINUM named it that. It is we Americans who are using the correct name ... the British press felt that it should be in line with sodium and potassium and thus added to the spelling. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Multi-channel OSA-ICC routing and TCP port behavior
Agreed. The full name is OSA-Express Integrated Console Controller and was primarly meant to provide Console Support to IPL OSes. Overtime, its use has evolved but the basic concept remains. Regards Parwez Hamid From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of R.S. Sent: 20 July 2020 12:17 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Multi-channel OSA-ICC routing and TCP port behavior Excuse me, but IMHO OSA-ICC is just way to get rid off old equipment like 3174L. It is NOT replacement, it is only for local (called non-SNA) terminals, printers and ...CONSOLES. Consoles are the most important. Of course 3172, 3274, and other controllers were not the goal. IBM went looong way from 3174s to to ICC. There were 2074 (quite expensive), VTAM consoles (not very usable for IPL), older SYSCON (Operating System Messages on HMC) and the latest 3270-like SYSG aka PCOMM-like icon in HMC. SYSG is AFAIK z/VM nomenclature. BTW, Note, nomenclaure for "HMC-like" consoles: 1. Operating System Messages z/VM: SYSC z/OS: SYSCON 2. HMC Integrated 3270 console (is it proper name?) z/VM: SYSG z/OS: HMCS I don't know about other OSes. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland W dniu 19.07.2020 o 15:17, Tony Thigpen pisze: > Christian, > I was dismayed too when I first discovered this limitation. The OSA-C > was originally intended to eliminate the local 3174 requirement. It > was not really designed to replace the 3172-003, which is what many > are using it for today. > > And, you also need to look back at the OSA-C's roots which was the > 3274 emulation in the P370, P390 and the MP3000. > > Tony Thigpen > > Christian Svensson wrote on 7/19/20 8:40 AM: >> Thanks for the input folks. >> >> Brian: I have it working just fine, the setup was easy as you said - the >> reason I started this thread was because I couldn't understand why the >> limitations on the TCP port number and the philosophy behind the >> routing. >> >> It seems pretty weird to me that IBM implemented ICC this way, but hey - >> I'm just a stranger on the internet :-) >> >> >> Regards, >> >> On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 06:52 Brian Westerman >> >> wrote: >> >>> You can set up some of the ports to be local VTAM terminals, then >>> you can >>> use VISTA (or any 3270 emulator) to connect into the ICC port 3270, >>> and use >>> the LUNAME of the 3270 you defined as a local 3270 terminal. Since >>> you can >>> have over 100 terminals per port, making them all os consoles is a >>> waste, >>> so having a bunch of them as local 3270's that you can give to your >>> carious >>> LPARs (and use EE to connect to the LPARs they are not connected >>> to), is a >>> great way to use them. >>> >>> I like to make the first 16 to 32 devices OS consoles and the rest >>> of them >>> local 3270s. >>> >>> So you are using TCP to get to them inside the ICC, but they are >>> technically local 3270 terminals. I think you can make some of them >>> printers if you want, but that seems like a waste. == Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości: - powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!), - usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub zapisałeś na dysku). Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może wykorzystać tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia (kopiuje, rozprowadza) tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać karze. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 01.01.2020 r. wynosi 169.401.468 złotych. If you are not the addressee of this message: - let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!), - delete this message permanently (including all the copies which you have printed out or saved). This message may contain legally protected information, which may be used exclusively by the addressee.Please be reminded that anyone who disseminates (copies, distributes) this message or takes any similar action, violates the law and may be penalised. mBank S.A. with its registered office in Warsaw, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. District Court for the Capital City of Warsaw, 12th Commercial Division of the National Court Register, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Fully paid-up share capital amounting to PLN 169.401.468 as at 1 January 2020. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
This is a fun Monday discussion. :-) I did not say anything about decimal arithmetic, either for nor against. I was discussing this fad called SI and how it was a standard looking for a base. The fact that it uses base-10 arithmetic may add to it's popularity, but that is only one small part of the 'standard'. Tony Thigpen Martin Packer wrote on 7/20/20 8:13 AM: So you don't rate decimal arithmetic? :-) So how do you explain dollars and cents? :-) Cheers, Martin (GDAR) Martin Packer zChampion, Systems Investigator & Performance Troubleshooter, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://mainframeperformancetopics.com Podcast Series (With Marna Walle): https://developer.ibm.com/tv/mpt/or https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/mainframe-performance-topics/id1127943573?mt=2 Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu_65HaYgksbF6Q8SQ4oOvA From: Tony Thigpen To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 20/07/2020 12:41 Subject:[EXTERNAL] Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List Wayne, We are an independent sort of people. We don't blindly follow others after the latest fad, like SI units. SI units are not really built on something real, but instead are a unit that looked for a base item that 'fit' into the new perception of reality. It is humorous that the meter was originally defined to be one ten millionth of the distance between the North Pole and the Equator through Paris. Or that the kilogram was originally defined as the mass of a man-made artifact of platinum-iridium held in a specific laboratory in France. It appears that the whole SI system was a system to make France the center of the universe. :-) Tony Thigpen Wayne Bickerdike wrote on 7/20/20 12:50 AM: Current international agreement for all new elements is to end them with -ium. Odd how the USA hangs on to impractical learnings. Even the UK moved to SI units while I was at school in the 1960s. Took me a while to get used to a gallon that isn't a gallon and a pint that isn't a pint (16 oz vs 20 oz.). You also short changed the ton by 240 lbs. And Webster, whilst described as an anglophile gave you center instead of centre, defense instead of defence... Not sure why saying an abacus is a computer makes me insane:) The best joker wore a mask. On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 8:19 AM Tony Thigpen wrote: Personally, I prefer a more authoritative source than Google, but it is almost the same story: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.merriam-2Dwebster.com_words-2Dat-2Dplay_aluminum-2Dvs-2Daluminium=DwICaQ=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg=BsPGKdq7-Vl8MW2-WOWZjlZ0NwmcFSpQCLphNznBSDQ=BT2zj1sgx0Ufo7xAfOAn2evt5Ihizark8xEHfcPHsz4=d8pDAilSCrc1YYJmjeWxtvdn0nnvwLb91ZjhFuTbnY4= Tony Thigpen Bob Bridges wrote on 7/19/20 6:09 PM: Because I know you were all breathlessly awaiting the verdict on the great "aluminum"/"aluminium" controversy, I went to find more information. At https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__books.google.com_books-3Fid-3DYjMwYAAJ-26pg-3DPA201=DwICaQ=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg=BsPGKdq7-Vl8MW2-WOWZjlZ0NwmcFSpQCLphNznBSDQ=BT2zj1sgx0Ufo7xAfOAn2evt5Ihizark8xEHfcPHsz4=LFMQJaJldrcYU7-Opl-zMJAqNhkfZwMUsGgs1X_N_kU= you can find a page in _Elements of Chemical Philosophy_ by Humphrey Davy (who first isolated aluminum), published in 1812; here he talks about "aluminum" (a metal to be found in alumina, which in turn was processed from alum). Wikipedia ( https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Aluminium=DwICaQ=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg=BsPGKdq7-Vl8MW2-WOWZjlZ0NwmcFSpQCLphNznBSDQ=BT2zj1sgx0Ufo7xAfOAn2evt5Ihizark8xEHfcPHsz4=gpcu8EXVajvDZsGWOQJp093GxumoNwb58qtlFORxwu4= ) says this about the name: "British chemist Humphry Davy, who performed a number of experiments aimed to isolate the metal, is credited as the person who named the element. In 1808, he suggested the metal be named alumium in an article on his electrochemical research which was published in Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society. This suggestion was criticized by contemporary chemists from France, Germany, and Sweden, who insisted the metal should be named for the oxide, alumina, from which it would be isolated. In 1812, Davy published a chemistry textbook in which he settled on the name aluminum, thus producing the modern name. However, its spelling and pronunciation varies: aluminum is in use in the United States and Canada while aluminium is in use elsewhere." That sounds plausible to me. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* It's ok to doubt your beliefs; but it's not ok to believe your doubts. -Jim Snider, pastor, 2000-12-10 */ -Original Message- From: Bob Bridges [mailto:robhbrid...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 17:34 Aha! Yet a third story; in this one
Re: Multi-channel OSA-ICC routing and TCP port behavior
Local does not mean non-SNA; there a local SNA controllers, which you can't use until VTAM is up. After IPL and initialization, you can us whatever TN3270 servers you run to connect to VTAM applications, including MCS, and the ICC is just one of those TN3270 servers. BW, has IBM dropped the support for 2740 consoles? Nobody has one these days, and the code is inoperative without BTAM. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of R.S. [r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl] Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 7:17 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Multi-channel OSA-ICC routing and TCP port behavior Excuse me, but IMHO OSA-ICC is just way to get rid off old equipment like 3174L. It is NOT replacement, it is only for local (called non-SNA) terminals, printers and ...CONSOLES. Consoles are the most important. Of course 3172, 3274, and other controllers were not the goal. IBM went looong way from 3174s to to ICC. There were 2074 (quite expensive), VTAM consoles (not very usable for IPL), older SYSCON (Operating System Messages on HMC) and the latest 3270-like SYSG aka PCOMM-like icon in HMC. SYSG is AFAIK z/VM nomenclature. BTW, Note, nomenclaure for "HMC-like" consoles: 1. Operating System Messages z/VM: SYSC z/OS: SYSCON 2. HMC Integrated 3270 console (is it proper name?) z/VM: SYSG z/OS: HMCS I don't know about other OSes. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland W dniu 19.07.2020 o 15:17, Tony Thigpen pisze: > Christian, > I was dismayed too when I first discovered this limitation. The OSA-C > was originally intended to eliminate the local 3174 requirement. It > was not really designed to replace the 3172-003, which is what many > are using it for today. > > And, you also need to look back at the OSA-C's roots which was the > 3274 emulation in the P370, P390 and the MP3000. > > Tony Thigpen > > Christian Svensson wrote on 7/19/20 8:40 AM: >> Thanks for the input folks. >> >> Brian: I have it working just fine, the setup was easy as you said - the >> reason I started this thread was because I couldn't understand why the >> limitations on the TCP port number and the philosophy behind the >> routing. >> >> It seems pretty weird to me that IBM implemented ICC this way, but hey - >> I'm just a stranger on the internet :-) >> >> >> Regards, >> >> On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 06:52 Brian Westerman >> >> wrote: >> >>> You can set up some of the ports to be local VTAM terminals, then >>> you can >>> use VISTA (or any 3270 emulator) to connect into the ICC port 3270, >>> and use >>> the LUNAME of the 3270 you defined as a local 3270 terminal. Since >>> you can >>> have over 100 terminals per port, making them all os consoles is a >>> waste, >>> so having a bunch of them as local 3270's that you can give to your >>> carious >>> LPARs (and use EE to connect to the LPARs they are not connected >>> to), is a >>> great way to use them. >>> >>> I like to make the first 16 to 32 devices OS consoles and the rest >>> of them >>> local 3270s. >>> >>> So you are using TCP to get to them inside the ICC, but they are >>> technically local 3270 terminals. I think you can make some of them >>> printers if you want, but that seems like a waste. == Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości: - powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!), - usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub zapisałeś na dysku). Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może wykorzystać tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia (kopiuje, rozprowadza) tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać karze. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,http://secure-web.cisco.com/1qtIQkntHaDTKJO6Byf-loZPVhE9Q_kZ0cNmEsN-LqoDc2oH4mRxicq3wS9SzLIONsyu13cJMNWeJuPe5DJSeFeUkEI3mOGHNxcRJS1buTZaKRQQAfYlO6nZKvU2ayzpocEzfJVIlpyQWwR3R3faNq4oTv0hq0o8eKw4Utb2rHDCVN6wbUH51z_bVKlafqnHojffcAvyJWWFhe3u4GpQ1losAJWfpJKx_zrzNB8gvSVgCCMBIBITpYJ9XHSw7XvKv99kLmqZHrUYT9hrG3cXqrKMMqEAtF2xDXTm8EUeUQX4IL9byDfuW3qiKMLxbol9RSRn5juMPLL0aETT0YsktLu5ZDwnW8HTzZ2AwyM0YGZxcDX9jo96bZ3VCmXUvIBLOnXnATg5_2gnDwRVfVqaDaQFrpsq8og53jGj5XfPeU3H4cPj9v5V8D7oP1Finr4DT/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 01.01.2020 r. wynosi 169.401.468 złotych. If you are not the addressee of this message: - let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!), - delete this message permanently (including all the copies which you have printed out or saved). This message may contain legally protected information, which may be used exclusively by the addressee.Please be reminded that anyone who
Re: Multi-channel OSA-ICC routing and TCP port behavior
Excuse me, but IMHO OSA-ICC is just way to get rid off old equipment like 3174L. It is NOT replacement, it is only for local (called non-SNA) terminals, printers and ...CONSOLES. Consoles are the most important. Of course 3172, 3274, and other controllers were not the goal. IBM went looong way from 3174s to to ICC. There were 2074 (quite expensive), VTAM consoles (not very usable for IPL), older SYSCON (Operating System Messages on HMC) and the latest 3270-like SYSG aka PCOMM-like icon in HMC. SYSG is AFAIK z/VM nomenclature. BTW, Note, nomenclaure for "HMC-like" consoles: 1. Operating System Messages z/VM: SYSC z/OS: SYSCON 2. HMC Integrated 3270 console (is it proper name?) z/VM: SYSG z/OS: HMCS I don't know about other OSes. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland W dniu 19.07.2020 o 15:17, Tony Thigpen pisze: Christian, I was dismayed too when I first discovered this limitation. The OSA-C was originally intended to eliminate the local 3174 requirement. It was not really designed to replace the 3172-003, which is what many are using it for today. And, you also need to look back at the OSA-C's roots which was the 3274 emulation in the P370, P390 and the MP3000. Tony Thigpen Christian Svensson wrote on 7/19/20 8:40 AM: Thanks for the input folks. Brian: I have it working just fine, the setup was easy as you said - the reason I started this thread was because I couldn't understand why the limitations on the TCP port number and the philosophy behind the routing. It seems pretty weird to me that IBM implemented ICC this way, but hey - I'm just a stranger on the internet :-) Regards, On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 06:52 Brian Westerman wrote: You can set up some of the ports to be local VTAM terminals, then you can use VISTA (or any 3270 emulator) to connect into the ICC port 3270, and use the LUNAME of the 3270 you defined as a local 3270 terminal. Since you can have over 100 terminals per port, making them all os consoles is a waste, so having a bunch of them as local 3270's that you can give to your carious LPARs (and use EE to connect to the LPARs they are not connected to), is a great way to use them. I like to make the first 16 to 32 devices OS consoles and the rest of them local 3270s. So you are using TCP to get to them inside the ICC, but they are technically local 3270 terminals. I think you can make some of them printers if you want, but that seems like a waste. == Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości: - powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!), - usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub zapisałeś na dysku). Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może wykorzystać tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia (kopiuje, rozprowadza) tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać karze. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 01.01.2020 r. wynosi 169.401.468 złotych. If you are not the addressee of this message: - let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!), - delete this message permanently (including all the copies which you have printed out or saved). This message may contain legally protected information, which may be used exclusively by the addressee.Please be reminded that anyone who disseminates (copies, distributes) this message or takes any similar action, violates the law and may be penalised. mBank S.A. with its registered office in Warsaw, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. District Court for the Capital City of Warsaw, 12th Commercial Division of the National Court Register, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Fully paid-up share capital amounting to PLN 169.401.468 as at 1 January 2020. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Using AN EAX value of PC Routineto index into the Authority Table
If the AS2 has the capability of switching to supervisor state; why can't it (AS2) create its own Cross Memory environment allowing Address Space (AS1) the ability to issue a PC to AS2 and the PC Service Routine use AR Mode to transfer data from the Target Address Space (AS2) to the Accessing Address Space (AS1) ? That's exactly what it can do and does do. For a space-switch PC when the new SASN is set to the old PASN, the target routine can use MVCS or a move with ALET=1 to move data to the secondary space. What in the book contradicts this? By the way, I disagree with Shmuel about "The easy way is to be a subsystem". The client needs to know what PC to issue. This does not require a subsystem in order to "know". When the LX is not a system LX, the client will need to connect to the server's LX. That in and of itself requires authorization, sometimes/often provided by the server having defined a system LX for that purpose. Are You saying that each accessing address space would provide a unique EAX. Definitely not. An "accessing address space" does not "provide" an EAX. That is not how EAX's are used. Peter Relson z/OS Core Technology Design -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
We are no more immune to Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds than any other country, and our society has massive conformity in many areas. Even many who want to rebel find a marginal group to rebel in conformity with. People accept the most ludicrous claims because others in their in group accept them. Koolaid, anybody? As to SI units, there are practical reasons for adopting them. Do we really want to stick with a system of units that few of us understand, with the same name denoting different quantities depending on context? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Tony Thigpen [t...@vse2pdf.com] Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 7:41 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? Wayne, We are an independent sort of people. We don't blindly follow others after the latest fad, like SI units. SI units are not really built on something real, but instead are a unit that looked for a base item that 'fit' into the new perception of reality. It is humorous that the meter was originally defined to be one ten millionth of the distance between the North Pole and the Equator through Paris. Or that the kilogram was originally defined as the mass of a man-made artifact of platinum-iridium held in a specific laboratory in France. It appears that the whole SI system was a system to make France the center of the universe. :-) Tony Thigpen Wayne Bickerdike wrote on 7/20/20 12:50 AM: > Current international agreement for all new elements is to end them with > -ium. > > Odd how the USA hangs on to impractical learnings. Even the UK moved to SI > units while I was at school in the 1960s. > > Took me a while to get used to a gallon that isn't a gallon and a pint that > isn't a pint (16 oz vs 20 oz.). You also short changed the ton by 240 lbs. > > And Webster, whilst described as an anglophile gave you center instead of > centre, defense instead of defence... > > Not sure why saying an abacus is a computer makes me insane:) The best > joker wore a mask. > > > > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 8:19 AM Tony Thigpen wrote: > >> Personally, I prefer a more authoritative source than Google, but it is >> almost the same story: >> >> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1pIHfKwEyRKXQ258d6HQn6pXUesJTG2ibsqShT6MRYhV9r4fUKEdk9EpqHJwml6iAcP62SzIC3uZkRzKBr2xFFIvxxdrq3FJOEo5YJpHdsTZL_IkvdhsdpPU_emKLXtEo0jOyWZi52wCFJoHhj57fg6pahAkz7uHKMjYBLrCPzfJH16RCdPZUmdUJv0SpiLPWvn8jpo3ft44amIQPJisLmwO1OOZIG63LdJVOv2kBOiuA2Ipj-_RmUn5F1hCqvWXtHFB_DSXpN6qgLMysEGbxRCQZmOJTQGpy2_xgVa9lJ9gK-tYUGDm0p6-K2y9hhAPN45yb1dspz2Cz13TqP0qZ0OHjYLIEBVaQxmojGC-2VlBIpe-MBFS2ZKWsNddCSJ9YTVE_Q42TOEjLV-e9hzuDQfKzDcBF1IPqnTdgnYvMQfDqc4GDojyBrhcrbMPlu1SBOJwYIYlN4NGPdzFscEshLA/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.merriam-webster.com%2Fwords-at-play%2Faluminum-vs-aluminium >> >> Tony Thigpen >> >> Bob Bridges wrote on 7/19/20 6:09 PM: >>> Because I know you were all breathlessly awaiting the verdict on the >> great "aluminum"/"aluminium" controversy, I went to find more information. >> At https://books.google.com/books?id=YjMwYAAJ=PA201 you can find a >> page in _Elements of Chemical Philosophy_ by Humphrey Davy (who first >> isolated aluminum), published in 1812; here he talks about "aluminum" (a >> metal to be found in alumina, which in turn was processed from alum). >> Wikipedia >> (https://secure-web.cisco.com/1o6jW0bqoJQZaMyasPgxtzBf_1f444E0jC_JhX8hRoMJuqwbXVk8hQt14kOFIaHV1WtTiLzRUoR0Veuz7o0GDCSEupyT9FPsCpb-FjYXsZtaEoOd_oUCq--prwLBmDIxl3sPQU6dN3PT0G6KSrj7Oxh3B2stsVoQPwiFnRswppFy89Zg0YgQD4xXrkcxI0-IFFPUvAnNrqtGX2dwdAo02cIdQQskgySknoXpD5je9yGqHXOV5DlltC7iczjDJ45NW67kHGiQ4cRXdwKV7hvNF_sJtT7yOdOGGeHpOfePCkYOBi_qGp4vlrx8JFZcB_2D1t_gi66X_CgDb_0hK5om0PY9ap9gh-SWfoq3TEZIJRX9C7MBC5WYC0AQhqc-0ItOy-So75wqar6z_d0D3x0GxhuimV3l6hrGm3bRD0YMJ1h6RRjkSXmKnPUrFOZlleSuI/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAluminium%29 >> says this about the >> name: >>> >>> "British chemist Humphry Davy, who performed a number of experiments >> aimed to isolate the metal, is credited as the person who named the >> element. In 1808, he suggested the metal be named alumium in an article on >> his electrochemical research which was published in Philosophical >> Transactions of the Royal Society. This suggestion was criticized by >> contemporary chemists from France, Germany, and Sweden, who insisted the >> metal should be named for the oxide, alumina, from which it would be >> isolated. In 1812, Davy published a chemistry textbook in which he settled >> on the name aluminum, thus producing the modern name. However, its spelling >> and pronunciation varies: aluminum is in use in the United States and >> Canada while aluminium is in use elsewhere." >>> >>> That sounds plausible to me. >>> >>> --- >>> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 >>> >>> /* It's ok to doubt your beliefs; but it's not ok to
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Wikipedia is not google. Google is an attempt at a search engine, and that URL is a rwedirect URL that lets google track the use of the link. Some of the article on wiki are of high quality. Others? Well, I trust wiki as a source of references ;-) -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Tony Thigpen [t...@vse2pdf.com] Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 7:25 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? Bob, I was referring to your "Wikipedia (https://secure-web.cisco.com/1KI3faUsQ4YEpgh7TyZ4fLSApgKA8S4U6_YCt5N7I9n70WHQJlTRhnwY585_ptp9A0THTRBN2o2Rx306X21ywdEePy1x4O_8UxlPcpzs_aP1veOkERadnjzsak0KEEFxEdZKLnoptrQcN2EzhKZIG9JPbcH9K_2aGl8-5a4UuKjiiMGsfbr5UycCe7JnMawJwMf3W2W-BNzH-PwYujuTPsK9JK9JGHHKjFFdVpCCvGZA1i3pz7Kmd3JlQCXrbqgbbeJi9HvtGz_k6UrRZOVwREOVatIdIP4ATkdKMmLYz5EmMqlV-LgbQotYi-hCBm6pLY3ehNRS66ZkWSB74FlkexXgACUIIHFpfseZE5_GuPS_PsxfrWSLdjdzkuqWwpfR2FYA8DzEns3lb49R6U9ofdnkB9IfXpigOuG69R54YnxEjARG3XEcbmSMwY6TLNCmB/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAluminium%29 says this about the name:" quote when I said that google is not an authority. Anybody can write just about anything into google. Most teachers will not allow quotes from google due to the mess that google is in. The people at Merrian-Webster have always been considered authoritative. If we can't trust the people that produce of the the top dictionaries, then we are lost. In this case, I was saying that "here is a much more authoritative site that backs up most of the story posted on google." Tony Thigpen Bob Bridges wrote on 7/20/20 2:04 AM: > Always interesting, if you like words (and I do). Thanks. > > "Google", you say? Google isn't the source of my information, only the > warehouse (so to speak). The first source I quoted was Mr Davy himself. But > maybe you meant Wikipedia; a lot of people express varying amounts of > derision when they hear Wikipedia mentioned. > > --- > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > /* The arguments against state-controlled churches apply with equal force to > state-run schools. No free society allows the state to claim authority over > the mind. -Joseph Sobran */ > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Tony Thigpen > Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 18:19 > > Personally, I prefer a more authoritative source than Google, but it is > almost the same story: > > https://secure-web.cisco.com/1zHQtBmJvC1vVJ0vW-l7ndshrJmSTHAKKvrtUdN8uEe6vxdo1GOUouThBioS83Z0U0bfb4Q5O8Yt8E0ZnP9X6C05s9EsWXz36AyMlvxc-6yK2lncIOIUii4SjSvjCPu5vuv3BCSKNqm4MavRaqdeIeahTGtkdhDkOo-9QvI4o3y-AIZIynL1iSBAjSv6ET1zY0Wnzsh_4-AhgtCYuB7Y1FFtmvSfvNsOEyg-94-Rf8Xw4pPgHLaBq8kCDUG9m7dh0GIeUZEkxMfwrE-XkW6vkojSG7UCcrtypIOw5sGJ6SAqnmn3-Cy37KUwaZ4bwckKs7OJQYmbbReNfe5wkq-nq4Lxddf3NFloCKHcGZ0O9P0phWSkFryRCxuf4dndtiq0FTU_1QgJGxMaA-wuWF1rTaqpMcQh7m5SvsdHAuMeKcRBe877K5k5FQK0OdEGwqPsO9V2rJaJyDr_CGTKaUK6W_Q/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.merriam-webster.com%2Fwords-at-play%2Faluminum-vs-aluminium > > --- Bob Bridges wrote on 7/19/20 6:09 PM: >> Because I know you were all breathlessly awaiting the verdict on the great >> "aluminum"/"aluminium" controversy, I went to find more information. At >> https://books.google.com/books?id=YjMwYAAJ=PA201 you can find a page >> in _Elements of Chemical Philosophy_ by Humphrey Davy (who first isolated >> aluminum), published in 1812; here he talks about "aluminum" (a metal to be >> found in alumina, which in turn was processed from alum). Wikipedia >> (https://secure-web.cisco.com/1KI3faUsQ4YEpgh7TyZ4fLSApgKA8S4U6_YCt5N7I9n70WHQJlTRhnwY585_ptp9A0THTRBN2o2Rx306X21ywdEePy1x4O_8UxlPcpzs_aP1veOkERadnjzsak0KEEFxEdZKLnoptrQcN2EzhKZIG9JPbcH9K_2aGl8-5a4UuKjiiMGsfbr5UycCe7JnMawJwMf3W2W-BNzH-PwYujuTPsK9JK9JGHHKjFFdVpCCvGZA1i3pz7Kmd3JlQCXrbqgbbeJi9HvtGz_k6UrRZOVwREOVatIdIP4ATkdKMmLYz5EmMqlV-LgbQotYi-hCBm6pLY3ehNRS66ZkWSB74FlkexXgACUIIHFpfseZE5_GuPS_PsxfrWSLdjdzkuqWwpfR2FYA8DzEns3lb49R6U9ofdnkB9IfXpigOuG69R54YnxEjARG3XEcbmSMwY6TLNCmB/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAluminium%29 >> says this ! about the name: >> >> "British chemist Humphry Davy, who performed a number of experiments aimed >> to isolate the metal, is credited as the person who named the element. In >> 1808, he suggested the metal be named alumium in an article on his >> electrochemical research which was published in Philosophical Transactions >> of the Royal Society. This suggestion was criticized by contemporary >> chemists from France, Germany, and Sweden, who insisted the metal should be >> named for the oxide, alumina, from which it would be isolated. In 1812, Davy >> published a chemistry textbook in which he settled on the name aluminum, >> thus producing the modern name. However, its spelling and pronunciation >> varies: aluminum is in use in the United
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Wayne, We are an independent sort of people. We don't blindly follow others after the latest fad, like SI units. SI units are not really built on something real, but instead are a unit that looked for a base item that 'fit' into the new perception of reality. It is humorous that the meter was originally defined to be one ten millionth of the distance between the North Pole and the Equator through Paris. Or that the kilogram was originally defined as the mass of a man-made artifact of platinum-iridium held in a specific laboratory in France. It appears that the whole SI system was a system to make France the center of the universe. :-) Tony Thigpen Wayne Bickerdike wrote on 7/20/20 12:50 AM: Current international agreement for all new elements is to end them with -ium. Odd how the USA hangs on to impractical learnings. Even the UK moved to SI units while I was at school in the 1960s. Took me a while to get used to a gallon that isn't a gallon and a pint that isn't a pint (16 oz vs 20 oz.). You also short changed the ton by 240 lbs. And Webster, whilst described as an anglophile gave you center instead of centre, defense instead of defence... Not sure why saying an abacus is a computer makes me insane:) The best joker wore a mask. On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 8:19 AM Tony Thigpen wrote: Personally, I prefer a more authoritative source than Google, but it is almost the same story: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/aluminum-vs-aluminium Tony Thigpen Bob Bridges wrote on 7/19/20 6:09 PM: Because I know you were all breathlessly awaiting the verdict on the great "aluminum"/"aluminium" controversy, I went to find more information. At https://books.google.com/books?id=YjMwYAAJ=PA201 you can find a page in _Elements of Chemical Philosophy_ by Humphrey Davy (who first isolated aluminum), published in 1812; here he talks about "aluminum" (a metal to be found in alumina, which in turn was processed from alum). Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium) says this about the name: "British chemist Humphry Davy, who performed a number of experiments aimed to isolate the metal, is credited as the person who named the element. In 1808, he suggested the metal be named alumium in an article on his electrochemical research which was published in Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society. This suggestion was criticized by contemporary chemists from France, Germany, and Sweden, who insisted the metal should be named for the oxide, alumina, from which it would be isolated. In 1812, Davy published a chemistry textbook in which he settled on the name aluminum, thus producing the modern name. However, its spelling and pronunciation varies: aluminum is in use in the United States and Canada while aluminium is in use elsewhere." That sounds plausible to me. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* It's ok to doubt your beliefs; but it's not ok to believe your doubts. -Jim Snider, pastor, 2000-12-10 */ -Original Message- From: Bob Bridges [mailto:robhbrid...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 17:34 Aha! Yet a third story; in this one Davy started out with "aluminum" and the Europeans ~added~ the 'i'. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Joe Monk Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 07:22 The British Scientist (Davy) who discovered ALUMINUM named it that. It is we Americans who are using the correct name ... the British press felt that it should be in line with sodium and potassium and thus added to the spelling. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Transport of choice for sending data to IBM's ECuRep
On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 11:05:49 -0700, Ed Jaffe wrote: >With IBM threatening to discontinue plain FTP next Monday, I'm wondering >what is the transport of choice for sending data to ECuRep? My choice: //* //ZOSPDUU EXEC PGM=AMAPDUPL //SYSUDUMP DD SYSOUT=* //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //DEBUGDD SYSOUT=* //SYSUT1 DD DISP=SHR,DSN=YOUR.DATASET.TO.UPLOAD //FTPCMDS DD * CCC //SYSINDD * * The -f specifies the TCPDATA dataset to be used. It specifies * NETRCLEVEL 2 in order to get user ID and password from your * .NETRC dataset. TARGET_SYS=-d -e -f"//'YOUR.FTP.DATA'" -v ftps.ecurep.ibm.com TARGET_DSN=YOUR.SAMPLE.NAME WORK_DSN=YOUR.WORK.FTPOUT * Size of work datasets in MB. To be modulated as a function of the * total file size to transfer. The number of chunks must remain below * 999. WORK_DSN_SIZE=100 * Number of parallel FTP sessions. More is faster, but can saturate * the network. 3 is a good starting point. Maximum is 20. CC_FTP=03 DIRECTORY=/toibm/mvs/ * The PMR to which the uploaded file is to be attached. The PMR must * exist and be active. Check this number! PMR=12345.123.123 //* N Notes: 1) You must have a dataset called .FTP.DATA with the configuration of th FTP options to use. Mine contains: NETRCLEVEL2 SECURE_FTPALLOWED SECURE_MECHANISM TLS TLSRFCLEVEL RFC4217 TLSMECHANISM FTP SECURE_CTRLCONN CLEAR SECURE_DATACONN PRIVATE KEYRING ECuReP EPSV4 TRUE FWFRIENDLYTRUE PASSIVEONLY TRUE FTPKEEPALIVE 60 DEBUG BAS DEBUG SOC(3) DEBUG SEC DEBUG CMD DEBUG FLO The NETRCLEVEL 2 is required to take the user/pass from your NETRC dataset. The SECURE_CTRLCONN CLEAR along with the CCC in the FTPCMDS DD are required to make the firewall understand what you are saying. (We have Bluecoat too...). The KEYRING ECuReP refers to the RACF keyring where you have stored the chain of CERTAUTH certificates required to validate the certificate the eCuReP site will present to authenticate itself. I have only DigiCert Global Root G2 in there. 2) You must have a dataset called .NETRC with the user/pass for your eCuRep acocunt in it. It must contain just one line like: machine ftps.ecurep.ibm.com login E-abcdefgh password abcd-aBcD-AbCd-abcd-ABCD with of course the values for your login instead of the abcdefgh and the corresponding password. This is NOT the account you use to manage your service requests. It is an account you have to request specifically to transfer stuff to eCuReP. 3) The PMR number must be the right number for your case. The case must be active. This works for me in batch. Cheers, Jantje. P.S. It did take me about 20 tries to get the firewall stuff right... The scars are still all over me... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Using AN EAX value of PC Routineto index into the Authority Table
If the server creates a system LX, how does the client locate it? Of those ways, which is easiest? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Peter Relson [rel...@us.ibm.com] Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 7:53 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Using AN EAX value of PC Routineto index into the Authority Table If the AS2 has the capability of switching to supervisor state; why can't it (AS2) create its own Cross Memory environment allowing Address Space (AS1) the ability to issue a PC to AS2 and the PC Service Routine use AR Mode to transfer data from the Target Address Space (AS2) to the Accessing Address Space (AS1) ? That's exactly what it can do and does do. For a space-switch PC when the new SASN is set to the old PASN, the target routine can use MVCS or a move with ALET=1 to move data to the secondary space. What in the book contradicts this? By the way, I disagree with Shmuel about "The easy way is to be a subsystem". The client needs to know what PC to issue. This does not require a subsystem in order to "know". When the LX is not a system LX, the client will need to connect to the server's LX. That in and of itself requires authorization, sometimes/often provided by the server having defined a system LX for that purpose. Are You saying that each accessing address space would provide a unique EAX. Definitely not. An "accessing address space" does not "provide" an EAX. That is not how EAX's are used. Peter Relson z/OS Core Technology Design -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
And therefore the question as to what you're talking about. You seem to be conflating a search engine with an online encyclopedia for some reason. So we're left wondering what it is you really mean. Wikipedia itself says it's not an academic reference, and actually no encyclopedia is. It is adequate for the purposes of IBM-MAIN, however. sas On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 7:26 AM Tony Thigpen wrote: > Bob, > > I was referring to your "Wikipedia > (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium) says this about the name:" > quote when I said that google is not an authority. Anybody can write > just about anything into google. Most teachers will not allow quotes > from google due to the mess that google is in. > > The people at Merrian-Webster have always been considered authoritative. > If we can't trust the people that produce of the the top dictionaries, > then we are lost. > > In this case, I was saying that "here is a much more authoritative site > that backs up most of the story posted on google." > > Tony Thigpen > > Bob Bridges wrote on 7/20/20 2:04 AM: > > Always interesting, if you like words (and I do). Thanks. > > > > "Google", you say? Google isn't the source of my information, only the > warehouse (so to speak). The first source I quoted was Mr Davy himself. > But maybe you meant Wikipedia; a lot of people express varying amounts of > derision when they hear Wikipedia mentioned. > > > > --- > > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > > > /* The arguments against state-controlled churches apply with equal > force to state-run schools. No free society allows the state to claim > authority over the mind. -Joseph Sobran */ > > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] > On Behalf Of Tony Thigpen > > Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 18:19 > > > > Personally, I prefer a more authoritative source than Google, but it is > > almost the same story: > > > > https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/aluminum-vs-aluminium > > > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
You have missed the point. Twice. Enough said. Not worth the effort. Tony Thigpen Steve Smith wrote on 7/20/20 8:38 AM: And therefore the question as to what you're talking about. You seem to be conflating a search engine with an online encyclopedia for some reason. So we're left wondering what it is you really mean. Wikipedia itself says it's not an academic reference, and actually no encyclopedia is. It is adequate for the purposes of IBM-MAIN, however. sas On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 7:26 AM Tony Thigpen wrote: Bob, I was referring to your "Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium) says this about the name:" quote when I said that google is not an authority. Anybody can write just about anything into google. Most teachers will not allow quotes from google due to the mess that google is in. The people at Merrian-Webster have always been considered authoritative. If we can't trust the people that produce of the the top dictionaries, then we are lost. In this case, I was saying that "here is a much more authoritative site that backs up most of the story posted on google." Tony Thigpen Bob Bridges wrote on 7/20/20 2:04 AM: Always interesting, if you like words (and I do). Thanks. "Google", you say? Google isn't the source of my information, only the warehouse (so to speak). The first source I quoted was Mr Davy himself. But maybe you meant Wikipedia; a lot of people express varying amounts of derision when they hear Wikipedia mentioned. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* The arguments against state-controlled churches apply with equal force to state-run schools. No free society allows the state to claim authority over the mind. -Joseph Sobran */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tony Thigpen Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 18:19 Personally, I prefer a more authoritative source than Google, but it is almost the same story: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/aluminum-vs-aluminium -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Multi-channel OSA-ICC routing and TCP port behavior
W dniu 20.07.2020 o 05:47, Timothy Sipples pisze: Mike Schwab wrote: Port 23 is standard telnet. Port 3270 is non-standard TN3270E. IANA has actually reserved port 3270 for "Verismart":HMC Integrated 3270 console https://www.iana.org/assignments/service-names-port-numbers/service-names-port-numbers.txt I have no idea what Verismart is, or was. It's probably moribund, like many port reservations. You're not obliged to honor IANA's reservations and recommendations, although it's the "polite thing to do." If nothing else it makes the job of somebody monitoring, managing, and troubleshooting network traffic a little easier, because at least you give that person a clue what the traffic is about. [...] Well, I often see shop-defined port, for one reason: security by obscurity. People who decided claim it is another level of complexity for hacker. Note: this is NOT my opinion. The other reason is ...lack of reason. Simply, someone who configured TN3270 chose some port with no analysis. Just, any free number available. Sometimes is it 3270 or other familiar number. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland == Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości: - powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!), - usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub zapisałeś na dysku). Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może wykorzystać tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia (kopiuje, rozprowadza) tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać karze. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 01.01.2020 r. wynosi 169.401.468 złotych. If you are not the addressee of this message: - let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!), - delete this message permanently (including all the copies which you have printed out or saved). This message may contain legally protected information, which may be used exclusively by the addressee.Please be reminded that anyone who disseminates (copies, distributes) this message or takes any similar action, violates the law and may be penalised. mBank S.A. with its registered office in Warsaw, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. District Court for the Capital City of Warsaw, 12th Commercial Division of the National Court Register, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Fully paid-up share capital amounting to PLN 169.401.468 as at 1 January 2020. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
So you don't rate decimal arithmetic? :-) So how do you explain dollars and cents? :-) Cheers, Martin (GDAR) Martin Packer zChampion, Systems Investigator & Performance Troubleshooter, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://mainframeperformancetopics.com Podcast Series (With Marna Walle): https://developer.ibm.com/tv/mpt/or https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/mainframe-performance-topics/id1127943573?mt=2 Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu_65HaYgksbF6Q8SQ4oOvA From: Tony Thigpen To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 20/07/2020 12:41 Subject:[EXTERNAL] Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List Wayne, We are an independent sort of people. We don't blindly follow others after the latest fad, like SI units. SI units are not really built on something real, but instead are a unit that looked for a base item that 'fit' into the new perception of reality. It is humorous that the meter was originally defined to be one ten millionth of the distance between the North Pole and the Equator through Paris. Or that the kilogram was originally defined as the mass of a man-made artifact of platinum-iridium held in a specific laboratory in France. It appears that the whole SI system was a system to make France the center of the universe. :-) Tony Thigpen Wayne Bickerdike wrote on 7/20/20 12:50 AM: > Current international agreement for all new elements is to end them with > -ium. > > Odd how the USA hangs on to impractical learnings. Even the UK moved to SI > units while I was at school in the 1960s. > > Took me a while to get used to a gallon that isn't a gallon and a pint that > isn't a pint (16 oz vs 20 oz.). You also short changed the ton by 240 lbs. > > And Webster, whilst described as an anglophile gave you center instead of > centre, defense instead of defence... > > Not sure why saying an abacus is a computer makes me insane:) The best > joker wore a mask. > > > > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 8:19 AM Tony Thigpen wrote: > >> Personally, I prefer a more authoritative source than Google, but it is >> almost the same story: >> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.merriam-2Dwebster.com_words-2Dat-2Dplay_aluminum-2Dvs-2Daluminium=DwICaQ=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg=BsPGKdq7-Vl8MW2-WOWZjlZ0NwmcFSpQCLphNznBSDQ=BT2zj1sgx0Ufo7xAfOAn2evt5Ihizark8xEHfcPHsz4=d8pDAilSCrc1YYJmjeWxtvdn0nnvwLb91ZjhFuTbnY4= >> >> Tony Thigpen >> >> Bob Bridges wrote on 7/19/20 6:09 PM: >>> Because I know you were all breathlessly awaiting the verdict on the >> great "aluminum"/"aluminium" controversy, I went to find more information. >> At https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__books.google.com_books-3Fid-3DYjMwYAAJ-26pg-3DPA201=DwICaQ=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg=BsPGKdq7-Vl8MW2-WOWZjlZ0NwmcFSpQCLphNznBSDQ=BT2zj1sgx0Ufo7xAfOAn2evt5Ihizark8xEHfcPHsz4=LFMQJaJldrcYU7-Opl-zMJAqNhkfZwMUsGgs1X_N_kU= you can find a >> page in _Elements of Chemical Philosophy_ by Humphrey Davy (who first >> isolated aluminum), published in 1812; here he talks about "aluminum" (a >> metal to be found in alumina, which in turn was processed from alum). >> Wikipedia ( https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Aluminium=DwICaQ=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg=BsPGKdq7-Vl8MW2-WOWZjlZ0NwmcFSpQCLphNznBSDQ=BT2zj1sgx0Ufo7xAfOAn2evt5Ihizark8xEHfcPHsz4=gpcu8EXVajvDZsGWOQJp093GxumoNwb58qtlFORxwu4= ) says this about the >> name: >>> >>> "British chemist Humphry Davy, who performed a number of experiments >> aimed to isolate the metal, is credited as the person who named the >> element. In 1808, he suggested the metal be named alumium in an article on >> his electrochemical research which was published in Philosophical >> Transactions of the Royal Society. This suggestion was criticized by >> contemporary chemists from France, Germany, and Sweden, who insisted the >> metal should be named for the oxide, alumina, from which it would be >> isolated. In 1812, Davy published a chemistry textbook in which he settled >> on the name aluminum, thus producing the modern name. However, its spelling >> and pronunciation varies: aluminum is in use in the United States and >> Canada while aluminium is in use elsewhere." >>> >>> That sounds plausible to me. >>> >>> --- >>> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 >>> >>> /* It's ok to doubt your beliefs; but it's not ok to believe your >> doubts. -Jim Snider, pastor, 2000-12-10 */ >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: Bob Bridges [mailto:robhbrid...@gmail.com] >>> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 17:34 >>> >>> Aha! Yet a third story; in this one Davy started out with "aluminum" >> and the Europeans ~added~ the 'i'. >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] >> On Behalf Of Joe Monk >>> Sent:
Re: Using AN EAX value of PC Routineto index into the Authority Table
Have you never heard of Name/Token Services? It's much easier than abusing the SSI, and much more efficient. sas On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 8:29 AM Seymour J Metz wrote: > If the server creates a system LX, how does the client locate it? Of those > ways, which is easiest? > > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Using AN EAX value of PC Routineto index into the Authority Table
How is using a field for what it is intended for abuse? And how is N/T easier? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Steve Smith [sasd...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 8:43 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Using AN EAX value of PC Routineto index into the Authority Table Have you never heard of Name/Token Services? It's much easier than abusing the SSI, and much more efficient. sas On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 8:29 AM Seymour J Metz wrote: > If the server creates a system LX, how does the client locate it? Of those > ways, which is easiest? > > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
On Mon, 20 Jul 2020, at 13:42, Tony Thigpen wrote: > You have missed the point. Twice. Enough said. Not worth the effort. Well in that case perhaps you'd care to explain to /me/ what you meant by ... when I said that google is not an authority. Anybody can write just about anything into google. I know of no way that I can "write ... anything into google". Yes, I could edit a Wikipedia article that google could allow other people to find, but you seem certain that you really DID mean google. Please explain. -- Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
I can confirm the part of the story where Grace Hopper found herself left without a ride back to her hotel in Osaka. In the late 1970s, I had the pleasure of meeting Grace Hopper when she came to visit the facility where I was working at that time. When she stopped by our department, she was chatting with a number of us, and told that story of how she discovered that she needed a ride, and she realized that no one left in the room spoke any English. But, she also realized they were COBOL programmers. So, as I recall, she told the story like this -- She announced loudly to the group of programmers, "MOVE!" while pointing to herself. Then, she pointed away and stated, "GOTO OSAKA HOTEL!" -- and they understood, and someone took her there. And, of course, she handed out "nano-seconds" (an ~12" length of bell wire) to anyone in the room who would accept one. :-) She would say, "Here's a nanosecond" as she handed you a length of wire. She was great. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Perhaps I can put this in some historical context for the MOVE vs COPY choice. Decades ago Grace Hopper spoke at an ASM meeting I attended. The folks on the ENIAC team developed a COBOL precerser that looked a bit like English. Actually they had observed that in most languages, commands start with the verb. Since they spoke English, their language was English-like, but it was table driven so that the equivilent words from other languages could be substituted. This was an idea that never took off. To simplify and speed the table look up, it was decided that the commands had to be unique in their first and third characters. Perhaps there was some other command that blocked the use of COPY. Or perhaps the choice of MOVE was made necessary because it was decided to use COPY to copy stuff from a library of commonly used stuff. (I use stuff rather than try to list the kinds of things one can copy into the library.) One amusing Grace Hopper story from that meeting: She told of a time visiting a data center in Japan. When it came time for her to leave, she discovered her ride had left without her. The programmers at the data center spoke no English and she spoke no Japanese. But the programmers were coding in COBOL. In their programs, all the variable names were in Japanese, but the language elements were English words. So she asked the programmers to MOVE her TO her hotel. She got there. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
OK. OK, I now see how I was not communicating it correctly. At one point when I was talking about Wikipedia, I started using the term 'google'. And, yes, I was incorrect. I intended to be talking about Wikipedia, not Google. I guess my age is now showing. :-( Tony Thigpen Jeremy Nicoll wrote on 7/20/20 9:47 AM: On Mon, 20 Jul 2020, at 13:42, Tony Thigpen wrote: You have missed the point. Twice. Enough said. Not worth the effort. Well in that case perhaps you'd care to explain to /me/ what you meant by ... when I said that google is not an authority. Anybody can write just about anything into google. I know of no way that I can "write ... anything into google". Yes, I could edit a Wikipedia article that google could allow other people to find, but you seem certain that you really DID mean google. Please explain. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Encrypting z/OS SNMP traps to Windows SNMP server
This is a new requirement from the higher ups in our new owning company. We are still on z/OS 1.12, so I don't have any new fancy stuff. We use CA-OPS/MVS to trap "abend" messages from the CA-7 Browse log. We send these messages to an Solar Winds "Orion" SNMP server so that it can interface with CA Service Desk to automatically open Service Desk tickets. This is all on internal (Data Center) LAN. But it is "server to server" by the standards of our new masters and so it MUST be encrypted or we must stop doing it. I have been trying to read up on AT/TLS, but it is totally over my head. I don't really know anything about IP encryption. Or Windows people are also ignorant of IP encryption on z/OS (of course). -- People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world. Maranatha! <>< John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Encrypting z/OS SNMP traps to Windows SNMP server
John, you forgot to say X-Posted! I answered on the TCP list but I suspect the main dialog will end up being here. Here X-Posted is what I wrote on the TCP list. The whole point of AT-TLS is that it all just happens automagically (the z/OS end only). I'm not an expert on AT-TLS but to a great extent TLS is TLS. (I have also totally forgotten what was and was not in V1R12.) They are going to have to pretty much drive the thing. They are going to have to set up Orion to be a TLS server. Possibly they have already done that for other clients? They will need to give you a CA certificate (either from a well-known CA such as DigiCert, or a home-grown CA, which may well be adequate) that you will then install in a keyring in RACF. They need to tell you their requirements. Your higher-ups may have a problem in that the encryption that V1R12 supports is probably "inadequate" by current standards. (Whether that is a real problem or not is a different discussion, assuming it is not the NSA or the KGB that has an interest in your ABENDs. But it may be a problem for the pointy-heads.) Hmmm. Did anyone think to mention that staying on V1R12 might be a security exposure? (Just zinging you. Sorry.) Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John McKown Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 9:28 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Encrypting z/OS SNMP traps to Windows SNMP server This is a new requirement from the higher ups in our new owning company. We are still on z/OS 1.12, so I don't have any new fancy stuff. We use CA-OPS/MVS to trap "abend" messages from the CA-7 Browse log. We send these messages to an Solar Winds "Orion" SNMP server so that it can interface with CA Service Desk to automatically open Service Desk tickets. This is all on internal (Data Center) LAN. But it is "server to server" by the standards of our new masters and so it MUST be encrypted or we must stop doing it. I have been trying to read up on AT/TLS, but it is totally over my head. I don't really know anything about IP encryption. Or Windows people are also ignorant of IP encryption on z/OS (of course). -- People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world. Maranatha! <>< John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Actually, the original gram was 1 cubic centimeter of distilled water at 4c, making a kilogram 10 cm * 10 cm * 10 cm of distilled water at 4c. Then they discovered nuclear isotopes that allowed the mass of water to vary between samples. On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 6:41 AM Tony Thigpen wrote: > > Wayne, > > We are an independent sort of people. We don't blindly follow others > after the latest fad, like SI units. SI units are not really built on > something real, but instead are a unit that looked for a base item that > 'fit' into the new perception of reality. > > It is humorous that the meter was originally defined to be one ten > millionth of the distance between the North Pole and the Equator through > Paris. Or that the kilogram was originally defined as the mass of a > man-made artifact of platinum-iridium held in a specific laboratory in > France. It appears that the whole SI system was a system to make France > the center of the universe. :-) > > Tony Thigpen > > Wayne Bickerdike wrote on 7/20/20 12:50 AM: > > Current international agreement for all new elements is to end them with > > -ium. > > > > Odd how the USA hangs on to impractical learnings. Even the UK moved to SI > > units while I was at school in the 1960s. > > > > Took me a while to get used to a gallon that isn't a gallon and a pint that > > isn't a pint (16 oz vs 20 oz.). You also short changed the ton by 240 lbs. > > > > And Webster, whilst described as an anglophile gave you center instead of > > centre, defense instead of defence... > > > > Not sure why saying an abacus is a computer makes me insane:) The best > > joker wore a mask. > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 8:19 AM Tony Thigpen wrote: > > > >> Personally, I prefer a more authoritative source than Google, but it is > >> almost the same story: > >> > >> https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/aluminum-vs-aluminium > >> > >> Tony Thigpen > >> > >> Bob Bridges wrote on 7/19/20 6:09 PM: > >>> Because I know you were all breathlessly awaiting the verdict on the > >> great "aluminum"/"aluminium" controversy, I went to find more information. > >> At https://books.google.com/books?id=YjMwYAAJ=PA201 you can find a > >> page in _Elements of Chemical Philosophy_ by Humphrey Davy (who first > >> isolated aluminum), published in 1812; here he talks about "aluminum" (a > >> metal to be found in alumina, which in turn was processed from alum). > >> Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium) says this about the > >> name: > >>> > >>> "British chemist Humphry Davy, who performed a number of experiments > >> aimed to isolate the metal, is credited as the person who named the > >> element. In 1808, he suggested the metal be named alumium in an article on > >> his electrochemical research which was published in Philosophical > >> Transactions of the Royal Society. This suggestion was criticized by > >> contemporary chemists from France, Germany, and Sweden, who insisted the > >> metal should be named for the oxide, alumina, from which it would be > >> isolated. In 1812, Davy published a chemistry textbook in which he settled > >> on the name aluminum, thus producing the modern name. However, its spelling > >> and pronunciation varies: aluminum is in use in the United States and > >> Canada while aluminium is in use elsewhere." > >>> > >>> That sounds plausible to me. > >>> > >>> --- > >>> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > >>> > >>> /* It's ok to doubt your beliefs; but it's not ok to believe your > >> doubts. -Jim Snider, pastor, 2000-12-10 */ > >>> > >>> -Original Message- > >>> From: Bob Bridges [mailto:robhbrid...@gmail.com] > >>> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 17:34 > >>> > >>> Aha! Yet a third story; in this one Davy started out with "aluminum" > >> and the Europeans ~added~ the 'i'. > >>> > >>> -Original Message- > >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] > >> On Behalf Of Joe Monk > >>> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 07:22 > >>> > >>> The British Scientist (Davy) who discovered ALUMINUM named it that. It is > >>> we Americans who are using the correct name ... the British press felt > >> that > >>> it should be in line with sodium and potassium and thus added to the > >>> spelling. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > >>> > >> > >> -- > >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > >> > > > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield
Re: Encrypting z/OS SNMP traps to Windows SNMP server
Does SNMP flow by TCP or by UDP? UDP would be wrinkle. TLS-UDP is not unheard of but not super common in my experience. Does AT-TLS support UDP? Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John McKown Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 9:28 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Encrypting z/OS SNMP traps to Windows SNMP server This is a new requirement from the higher ups in our new owning company. We are still on z/OS 1.12, so I don't have any new fancy stuff. We use CA-OPS/MVS to trap "abend" messages from the CA-7 Browse log. We send these messages to an Solar Winds "Orion" SNMP server so that it can interface with CA Service Desk to automatically open Service Desk tickets. This is all on internal (Data Center) LAN. But it is "server to server" by the standards of our new masters and so it MUST be encrypted or we must stop doing it. I have been trying to read up on AT/TLS, but it is totally over my head. I don't really know anything about IP encryption. Or Windows people are also ignorant of IP encryption on z/OS (of course). -- People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world. Maranatha! <>< John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
