Re: [meteorite-list] Katol chondrules
Discussion is good, I am glad to see Katol finally in the bulletin no matter what it is. Thanks for your hard work Dr. Garvie. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 2, 2014, at 12:49 AM, Laurence Garvie lgar...@cox.net wrote: I expected there would be some discussion on the L6 class for Katol. I have posted some BSE images of chondrules from one of our sections on my Facebook page. Laurence Garvie CMS ASU __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hi Mike and all! Can't tell by looking at it if it's all metal. If it is predominently metal (by a large %) and the olivines and such match that of Katol, then this would be an L-Metalwould it not? Jim On 1/1/2014 5:33 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
It was bought on the spot from the finders as they lined up to sell the meteorites. It is Katol:) Central India is not Morocco with every person having a box of meteorites to sell. It is almost completely iron, with perhaps 5% silicates. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2014, at 6:05 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Mike and all! Can't tell by looking at it if it's all metal. If it is predominently metal (by a large %) and the olivines and such match that of Katol, then this would be an L-Metalwould it not? Jim On 1/1/2014 5:33 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Then it should have it's own classification! If it's 95% metal. Just my opinion. Do we classify falls or meteorites? Seems we loose by classifying falls. Jim On 1/2/2014 6:24 AM, Michael Farmer wrote: It was bought on the spot from the finders as they lined up to sell the meteorites. It is Katol:) Central India is not Morocco with every person having a box of meteorites to sell. It is almost completely iron, with perhaps 5% silicates. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2014, at 6:05 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Mike and all! Can't tell by looking at it if it's all metal. If it is predominently metal (by a large %) and the olivines and such match that of Katol, then this would be an L-Metalwould it not? Jim On 1/1/2014 5:33 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6967 - Release Date: 01/01/14 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
I am not going to cut that piece. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2014, at 7:03 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Then it should have it's own classification! If it's 95% metal. Just my opinion. Do we classify falls or meteorites? Seems we loose by classifying falls. Jim On 1/2/2014 6:24 AM, Michael Farmer wrote: It was bought on the spot from the finders as they lined up to sell the meteorites. It is Katol:) Central India is not Morocco with every person having a box of meteorites to sell. It is almost completely iron, with perhaps 5% silicates. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2014, at 6:05 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Mike and all! Can't tell by looking at it if it's all metal. If it is predominently metal (by a large %) and the olivines and such match that of Katol, then this would be an L-Metalwould it not? Jim On 1/1/2014 5:33 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6967 - Release Date: 01/01/14 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Since the iron was found with other fresh Katol stony pieces and some of the stony matrix is clearly visible on the outside of the iron, I see no reason to even consider cutting it to get a separate name. That is one nice thing of the iron being collected within a couple days of the fall, and well before any rains came along to oxidize and/or discolor the portion of matric on the iron. I think the few irons should be mentioned in the Official Katol classification, clearly they are 'pop-outs' from the Katol mass. ...just my 2 Rupees worth... Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Michael Farmer Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 9:13 AM To: Jim Wooddell Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official I am not going to cut that piece. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2014, at 7:03 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Then it should have it's own classification! If it's 95% metal. Just my opinion. Do we classify falls or meteorites? Seems we loose by classifying falls. Jim On 1/2/2014 6:24 AM, Michael Farmer wrote: It was bought on the spot from the finders as they lined up to sell the meteorites. It is Katol:) Central India is not Morocco with every person having a box of meteorites to sell. It is almost completely iron, with perhaps 5% silicates. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2014, at 6:05 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Mike and all! Can't tell by looking at it if it's all metal. If it is predominently metal (by a large %) and the olivines and such match that of Katol, then this would be an L-Metalwould it not? Jim On 1/1/2014 5:33 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6967 - Release Date: 01/01/14 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Two things: Many meteorites are heterogeneous. When we say Katol is L6 or NWA 869 is L3-6 or Almahata Sitta is an anomalous urelite, these are collective terms. Katol refers to everything that fell that day in India. It has been classified as L6. However, it is possible (and for Almahata Sitta, probable) that a given specimen does not representatively sample the incoming meteoroid. There is nothing wrong with saying that Almahata Sitta #25 is dominated by an H5 lithology or that Katol #4(?) is a metal rich lithology. Good practice would be to assign some kind of specimen number to each object and publish a catalog, so the world will always know what you are talking about. I would gladly publish such specimen tables in the MetBull database, especially if done systematically. As for the name question, NomCom would only give a separate name if there was significant doubt that a specimen was part of the Katol fall. This has happened before, as with Galim (b) and Zag (b), but it didn't happen with Almahata Sitta and I don't think there is much doubt in this case either. Jeff On 1/2/2014 9:24 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: Since the iron was found with other fresh Katol stony pieces and some of the stony matrix is clearly visible on the outside of the iron, I see no reason to even consider cutting it to get a separate name. That is one nice thing of the iron being collected within a couple days of the fall, and well before any rains came along to oxidize and/or discolor the portion of matric on the iron. I think the few irons should be mentioned in the Official Katol classification, clearly they are 'pop-outs' from the Katol mass. ...just my 2 Rupees worth... Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Michael Farmer Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 9:13 AM To: Jim Wooddell Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official I am not going to cut that piece. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2014, at 7:03 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Then it should have it's own classification! If it's 95% metal. Just my opinion. Do we classify falls or meteorites? Seems we loose by classifying falls. Jim On 1/2/2014 6:24 AM, Michael Farmer wrote: It was bought on the spot from the finders as they lined up to sell the meteorites. It is Katol:) Central India is not Morocco with every person having a box of meteorites to sell. It is almost completely iron, with perhaps 5% silicates. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2014, at 6:05 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Mike and all! Can't tell by looking at it if it's all metal. If it is predominently metal (by a large %) and the olivines and such match that of Katol, then this would be an L-Metalwould it not? Jim On 1/1/2014 5:33 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6967 - Release Date: 01/01/14 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Great discussion...Jeff, you preempted exactly what I was thinking...I would think such data added to classifications showing details of unusual lithologies and individuals within the general classification would be greatly appreciated by all. The variations within falls and finds always fascinate me. Graham On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com wrote: Two things: Many meteorites are heterogeneous. When we say Katol is L6 or NWA 869 is L3-6 or Almahata Sitta is an anomalous urelite, these are collective terms. Katol refers to everything that fell that day in India. It has been classified as L6. However, it is possible (and for Almahata Sitta, probable) that a given specimen does not representatively sample the incoming meteoroid. There is nothing wrong with saying that Almahata Sitta #25 is dominated by an H5 lithology or that Katol #4(?) is a metal rich lithology. Good practice would be to assign some kind of specimen number to each object and publish a catalog, so the world will always know what you are talking about. I would gladly publish such specimen tables in the MetBull database, especially if done systematically. As for the name question, NomCom would only give a separate name if there was significant doubt that a specimen was part of the Katol fall. This has happened before, as with Galim (b) and Zag (b), but it didn't happen with Almahata Sitta and I don't think there is much doubt in this case either. Jeff On 1/2/2014 9:24 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: Since the iron was found with other fresh Katol stony pieces and some of the stony matrix is clearly visible on the outside of the iron, I see no reason to even consider cutting it to get a separate name. That is one nice thing of the iron being collected within a couple days of the fall, and well before any rains came along to oxidize and/or discolor the portion of matric on the iron. I think the few irons should be mentioned in the Official Katol classification, clearly they are 'pop-outs' from the Katol mass. ...just my 2 Rupees worth... Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Michael Farmer Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 9:13 AM To: Jim Wooddell Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official I am not going to cut that piece. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2014, at 7:03 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Then it should have it's own classification! If it's 95% metal. Just my opinion. Do we classify falls or meteorites? Seems we loose by classifying falls. Jim On 1/2/2014 6:24 AM, Michael Farmer wrote: It was bought on the spot from the finders as they lined up to sell the meteorites. It is Katol:) Central India is not Morocco with every person having a box of meteorites to sell. It is almost completely iron, with perhaps 5% silicates. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2014, at 6:05 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Mike and all! Can't tell by looking at it if it's all metal. If it is predominently metal (by a large %) and the olivines and such match that of Katol, then this would be an L-Metalwould it not? Jim On 1/1/2014 5:33 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6967 - Release Date: 01/01/14 -- Jim Wooddell
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hi Greg and all, I would not suggest another name nor would I suggest it's a different fall. However I would suggest a numbering schema that maybe followed a find sequence. Katol 001, Katol 005, etc. I say that because if stuff is never studied...ie classifiedwe just will never know what it's make up is. And, that can and does apply to any strewn field. So, everything becomes opinion and guesswork. Lazy science. Jim On 1/2/2014 7:24 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: Since the iron was found with other fresh Katol stony pieces and some of the stony matrix is clearly visible on the outside of the iron, I see no reason to even consider cutting it to get a separate name. That is one nice thing of the iron being collected within a couple days of the fall, and well before any rains came along to oxidize and/or discolor the portion of matric on the iron. I think the few irons should be mentioned in the Official Katol classification, clearly they are 'pop-outs' from the Katol mass. ...just my 2 Rupees worth... Best Regards, Greg -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
It would be great if that were done at time of fall like for Sutter's Mill or Portales Valley. Katol was impossible since it was being collected by locals and most disappeared into the black hole of Calcutta. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 2, 2014, at 8:29 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Greg and all, I would not suggest another name nor would I suggest it's a different fall. However I would suggest a numbering schema that maybe followed a find sequence. Katol 001, Katol 005, etc. I say that because if stuff is never studied...ie classifiedwe just will never know what it's make up is. And, that can and does apply to any strewn field. So, everything becomes opinion and guesswork. Lazy science. Jim On 1/2/2014 7:24 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: Since the iron was found with other fresh Katol stony pieces and some of the stony matrix is clearly visible on the outside of the iron, I see no reason to even consider cutting it to get a separate name. That is one nice thing of the iron being collected within a couple days of the fall, and well before any rains came along to oxidize and/or discolor the portion of matric on the iron. I think the few irons should be mentioned in the Official Katol classification, clearly they are 'pop-outs' from the Katol mass. ...just my 2 Rupees worth... Best Regards, Greg -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hi Jim, I wouldn't call it lazy science, but I agree with a numbering system when possible, but when there are several people from around the world involved in a fall collecting stones, it can be impossible to get everyone to go along with the numbering system. Take Chelyabinsk for instance, impossible to number each stone because of the hundreds of people collecting. I think the next best thing is to name/number oddities like the Katol irons as maybe Katol - iron 001. Almahata Sitta was a rare occurrence since one initial scientist/museum had all of the stones that came out and it was easy to assign numbers, same with the single dealer who first offered the variety of stones. Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Jim Wooddell Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 10:29 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official Hi Greg and all, I would not suggest another name nor would I suggest it's a different fall. However I would suggest a numbering schema that maybe followed a find sequence. Katol 001, Katol 005, etc. I say that because if stuff is never studied...ie classifiedwe just will never know what it's make up is. And, that can and does apply to any strewn field. So, everything becomes opinion and guesswork. Lazy science. Jim On 1/2/2014 7:24 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: Since the iron was found with other fresh Katol stony pieces and some of the stony matrix is clearly visible on the outside of the iron, I see no reason to even consider cutting it to get a separate name. That is one nice thing of the iron being collected within a couple days of the fall, and well before any rains came along to oxidize and/or discolor the portion of matric on the iron. I think the few irons should be mentioned in the Official Katol classification, clearly they are 'pop-outs' from the Katol mass. ...just my 2 Rupees worth... Best Regards, Greg -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hello Jeff and Graham, Exactly.but a step further. I would suggest going further than just saying what the lithology is. That was done in this case in the write up. Okay, so we have as an example Katol #4(?). If you say it has a metal rich lithologywhat is it? Everything past that is guess work and opinion if not studied. It's like calling all the lunars by one nameafter all it's only one moonas a gross example! Jim On 1/2/2014 7:49 AM, Graham Ensor wrote: Great discussion...Jeff, you preempted exactly what I was thinking...I would think such data added to classifications showing details of unusual lithologies and individuals within the general classification would be greatly appreciated by all. The variations within falls and finds always fascinate me. Graham On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com wrote: Two things: Many meteorites are heterogeneous. When we say Katol is L6 or NWA 869 is L3-6 or Almahata Sitta is an anomalous urelite, these are collective terms. Katol refers to everything that fell that day in India. It has been classified as L6. However, it is possible (and for Almahata Sitta, probable) that a given specimen does not representatively sample the incoming meteoroid. There is nothing wrong with saying that Almahata Sitta #25 is dominated by an H5 lithology or that Katol #4(?) is a metal rich lithology. Good practice would be to assign some kind of specimen number to each object and publish a catalog, so the world will always know what you are talking about. I would gladly publish such specimen tables in the MetBull database, especially if done systematically. As for the name question, NomCom would only give a separate name if there was significant doubt that a specimen was part of the Katol fall. This has happened before, as with Galim (b) and Zag (b), but it didn't happen with Almahata Sitta and I don't think there is much doubt in this case either. Jeff - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6967 - Release Date: 01/01/14 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hi MikeG and All: The iron might be from L6 if it turns out that the few silicates in it (olivine and pyroxenes) have L6 geochem. You see that in the H-metal from Yucca. Of course large metal masses are probably not as commonly associated with L. Also if you had oxygen isotopes of the silicate inclusions from the iron or for that matter oxygen isotopes of the lithologies that seem to be more like achondrite, you could start to sort out if it is all from the same meteoroid. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Mike and List, Mike, and the behalf of countless others, I hope we hear that story one day. I imagine it must have been pretty bad for you to say it was a little scary. There are a predominance of stony lithologies, but Mike's iron is obviously not an L6 chondrite. So what do we call a mass like Mike's superb iron shield? Do we refer to his specimen as Katol (L6) or do we refer to it as something else? Does Katol have some similarity with Almahata Sitta, in the sense that stones with different lithologies (and classifications) shared the same strewnfield? So, a majority of hand specimens show a curious lithology that is granular, shocked, and originating from the L-chondrite group. Has anyone tried to plot the affinities from the specimens like Mike's that don't match the majority lithology? I'd be curious if they also fit into the L-chondrite group, or, if they were xenoliths hitching a ride in the Katol rubble-pile. Good stuff. It's about time that Katol gets some serious attention. :) Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 1/1/14, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 5:27 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Oh, of course, this the metal-rich piece? * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: No chondrules. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 4:25 PM, Graham Ensor graham.en...@gmail.com wrote: I think it is almost totally nickel iron and the marks are flow lines and small impact pits similar to those you find on Sikhote Alin... Graham On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 8:30 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Or perhaps the sphericals are vesiculation of fusion crust? I agree with Jim, it would be nice to see some BSE images. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Beautiful oriented and flow lines! I assume all the circular and spherical shapes are chondrules peeking through the fusion crust? Thanks for sharing Mike! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Thanks Jeff! Would love to see a polished window image as well as some BSE images now! Maybe Laurence or whoever has them can share! If this thing is going to have a paper published we may have to wait! Jim On 1/1/2014 11:35 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote:
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hi Greg, The find order is not necessarily important at all to science.although I think we all would agree that would be nice. That's a hunter thing that does not mean much to science. Field names and numbers are often in the bulletin comments if provided during the submittable process. My suggestion is that the samples studied would be assigned a number in the order received by the Editor. This completely eliminates the petty BS that goes on with some playing numbers games. Jim On 1/2/2014 8:40 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: Hi Jim, I wouldn't call it lazy science, but I agree with a numbering system when possible, but when there are several people from around the world involved in a fall collecting stones, it can be impossible to get everyone to go along with the numbering system. Take Chelyabinsk for instance, impossible to number each stone because of the hundreds of people collecting. I think the next best thing is to name/number oddities like the Katol irons as maybe Katol - iron 001. Almahata Sitta was a rare occurrence since one initial scientist/museum had all of the stones that came out and it was easy to assign numbers, same with the single dealer who first offered the variety of stones. Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Jim Wooddell Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 10:29 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official Hi Greg and all, I would not suggest another name nor would I suggest it's a different fall. However I would suggest a numbering schema that maybe followed a find sequence. Katol 001, Katol 005, etc. I say that because if stuff is never studied...ie classifiedwe just will never know what it's make up is. And, that can and does apply to any strewn field. So, everything becomes opinion and guesswork. Lazy science. Jim On 1/2/2014 7:24 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: Since the iron was found with other fresh Katol stony pieces and some of the stony matrix is clearly visible on the outside of the iron, I see no reason to even consider cutting it to get a separate name. That is one nice thing of the iron being collected within a couple days of the fall, and well before any rains came along to oxidize and/or discolor the portion of matric on the iron. I think the few irons should be mentioned in the Official Katol classification, clearly they are 'pop-outs' from the Katol mass. ...just my 2 Rupees worth... Best Regards, Greg -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Carl, you you suggesting this might be from different fall? I was there less than two weeks after the fall. I bought pieces as they were being found right in front of us. When we showed up with cash the whole village ran around picking up stones in 52 degree C (120f) heat. There were stones everywhere including on the street. No one cared until we came with money. We found one stone ourselves. Nearly every villager had stones. It is dead center India, among the poorest places on earth. I saw 5 iron only pieces and numerous partial iron and partial stone pieces. Whatever Katol is, (L6), it has large iron chunks inside and some become complete individuals during the fall. I really would like I clarify that this piece is Katol, I was there as it was found, we bought it seconds after the finder picked it up from beside his house. Can we please accept that this is Katol, not another meteorite! Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 2, 2014, at 8:48 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Hi MikeG and All: The iron might be from L6 if it turns out that the few silicates in it (olivine and pyroxenes) have L6 geochem. You see that in the H-metal from Yucca. Of course large metal masses are probably not as commonly associated with L. Also if you had oxygen isotopes of the silicate inclusions from the iron or for that matter oxygen isotopes of the lithologies that seem to be more like achondrite, you could start to sort out if it is all from the same meteoroid. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Mike and List, Mike, and the behalf of countless others, I hope we hear that story one day. I imagine it must have been pretty bad for you to say it was a little scary. There are a predominance of stony lithologies, but Mike's iron is obviously not an L6 chondrite. So what do we call a mass like Mike's superb iron shield? Do we refer to his specimen as Katol (L6) or do we refer to it as something else? Does Katol have some similarity with Almahata Sitta, in the sense that stones with different lithologies (and classifications) shared the same strewnfield? So, a majority of hand specimens show a curious lithology that is granular, shocked, and originating from the L-chondrite group. Has anyone tried to plot the affinities from the specimens like Mike's that don't match the majority lithology? I'd be curious if they also fit into the L-chondrite group, or, if they were xenoliths hitching a ride in the Katol rubble-pile. Good stuff. It's about time that Katol gets some serious attention. :) Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 1/1/14, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 5:27 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Oh, of course, this the metal-rich piece? * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: No chondrules. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 4:25 PM, Graham Ensor graham.en...@gmail.com wrote: I think it is almost totally nickel iron and the marks are flow lines and small impact pits similar to those you find on Sikhote Alin... Graham On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 8:30 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Or perhaps the sphericals are vesiculation of fusion crust? I agree with Jim, it would be nice to see some BSE images. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
It would probably be best not to use a lithologic term in a numbering scheme. Some specimens may defy such a descriptor, and in other cases it may simply be hard to tell what it is at the time of numbering. And it would really be good not to use numbers in the same format as dense collection areas (001, 002, etc.). I would suggest using simple numbering schemes like #1, #2, etc. Unlike 001 or no. 1, this symbol never occurs in meteorite names (unless as part of a tweet, I suppose). A good example of how I think it should be done is the way Peter Jenniskens did it for Sutter's Mill and Almahata Sitta, e.g., http://asima.seti.org/sm/ and http://asima.seti.org/2008TC3/ Jeff On 1/2/2014 10:40 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: Hi Jim, I wouldn't call it lazy science, but I agree with a numbering system when possible, but when there are several people from around the world involved in a fall collecting stones, it can be impossible to get everyone to go along with the numbering system. Take Chelyabinsk for instance, impossible to number each stone because of the hundreds of people collecting. I think the next best thing is to name/number oddities like the Katol irons as maybe Katol - iron 001. Almahata Sitta was a rare occurrence since one initial scientist/museum had all of the stones that came out and it was easy to assign numbers, same with the single dealer who first offered the variety of stones. Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Jim Wooddell Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 10:29 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official Hi Greg and all, I would not suggest another name nor would I suggest it's a different fall. However I would suggest a numbering schema that maybe followed a find sequence. Katol 001, Katol 005, etc. I say that because if stuff is never studied...ie classifiedwe just will never know what it's make up is. And, that can and does apply to any strewn field. So, everything becomes opinion and guesswork. Lazy science. Jim On 1/2/2014 7:24 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: Since the iron was found with other fresh Katol stony pieces and some of the stony matrix is clearly visible on the outside of the iron, I see no reason to even consider cutting it to get a separate name. That is one nice thing of the iron being collected within a couple days of the fall, and well before any rains came along to oxidize and/or discolor the portion of matric on the iron. I think the few irons should be mentioned in the Official Katol classification, clearly they are 'pop-outs' from the Katol mass. ...just my 2 Rupees worth... Best Regards, Greg __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
I did it for the Cali Colombia fall as well. It is easy to do with low number fall and one person taking charge. To this day we don't know where the Katol stones in India are. The large Thika stone which was taken by the military in Kenya, vanished. We don't even know the weight of that stone. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 2, 2014, at 9:01 AM, Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com wrote: It would probably be best not to use a lithologic term in a numbering scheme. Some specimens may defy such a descriptor, and in other cases it may simply be hard to tell what it is at the time of numbering. And it would really be good not to use numbers in the same format as dense collection areas (001, 002, etc.). I would suggest using simple numbering schemes like #1, #2, etc. Unlike 001 or no. 1, this symbol never occurs in meteorite names (unless as part of a tweet, I suppose). A good example of how I think it should be done is the way Peter Jenniskens did it for Sutter's Mill and Almahata Sitta, e.g., http://asima.seti.org/sm/ and http://asima.seti.org/2008TC3/ Jeff On 1/2/2014 10:40 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: Hi Jim, I wouldn't call it lazy science, but I agree with a numbering system when possible, but when there are several people from around the world involved in a fall collecting stones, it can be impossible to get everyone to go along with the numbering system. Take Chelyabinsk for instance, impossible to number each stone because of the hundreds of people collecting. I think the next best thing is to name/number oddities like the Katol irons as maybe Katol - iron 001. Almahata Sitta was a rare occurrence since one initial scientist/museum had all of the stones that came out and it was easy to assign numbers, same with the single dealer who first offered the variety of stones. Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Jim Wooddell Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 10:29 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official Hi Greg and all, I would not suggest another name nor would I suggest it's a different fall. However I would suggest a numbering schema that maybe followed a find sequence. Katol 001, Katol 005, etc. I say that because if stuff is never studied...ie classifiedwe just will never know what it's make up is. And, that can and does apply to any strewn field. So, everything becomes opinion and guesswork. Lazy science. Jim On 1/2/2014 7:24 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: Since the iron was found with other fresh Katol stony pieces and some of the stony matrix is clearly visible on the outside of the iron, I see no reason to even consider cutting it to get a separate name. That is one nice thing of the iron being collected within a couple days of the fall, and well before any rains came along to oxidize and/or discolor the portion of matric on the iron. I think the few irons should be mentioned in the Official Katol classification, clearly they are 'pop-outs' from the Katol mass. ...just my 2 Rupees worth... Best Regards, Greg __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hi Carl, Spot on! Question: How much material is required for the oxygen isotope testing??? When we were working on the H-Metal, the ICPMS-LA (Herd) tests completed on the last one used less than 100 milli-grams. And previous INAA (Actlabs) testing used 100 milli-grams. And, as you know sample size was nill! In either case, is not like you have to cut a third of it off. Not sure about the OI tests. Jim On 1/2/2014 8:48 AM, Carl Agee wrote: Hi MikeG and All: The iron might be from L6 if it turns out that the few silicates in it (olivine and pyroxenes) have L6 geochem. You see that in the H-metal from Yucca. Of course large metal masses are probably not as commonly associated with L. Also if you had oxygen isotopes of the silicate inclusions from the iron or for that matter oxygen isotopes of the lithologies that seem to be more like achondrite, you could start to sort out if it is all from the same meteoroid. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6969 - Release Date: 01/02/14 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
I am not arguing with Laurence, the photos of the thin sections, the oxygen isotope data seems clear. I am simply showing there is a little more going on with Katol than common (l6). You can examine the piece in Tucson when you come down for the show. I think you'll like it. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 2, 2014, at 9:10 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Mike, Given the wide range of lithologies we are hearing about, all I am saying it might be interesting to test the multiple lithologies and confirm what you are saying. I am not suggesting anything about multiple bodies or not, I don't have an opinion. I am simply describing how you could provide geochem evidence to form a well supported hypothesis. By the way, Laurence's BSE's on FB are unequivocal L6 -- nice equilibrated chondrules! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 9:00 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Carl, you you suggesting this might be from different fall? I was there less than two weeks after the fall. I bought pieces as they were being found right in front of us. When we showed up with cash the whole village ran around picking up stones in 52 degree C (120f) heat. There were stones everywhere including on the street. No one cared until we came with money. We found one stone ourselves. Nearly every villager had stones. It is dead center India, among the poorest places on earth. I saw 5 iron only pieces and numerous partial iron and partial stone pieces. Whatever Katol is, (L6), it has large iron chunks inside and some become complete individuals during the fall. I really would like I clarify that this piece is Katol, I was there as it was found, we bought it seconds after the finder picked it up from beside his house. Can we please accept that this is Katol, not another meteorite! Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 2, 2014, at 8:48 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Hi MikeG and All: The iron might be from L6 if it turns out that the few silicates in it (olivine and pyroxenes) have L6 geochem. You see that in the H-metal from Yucca. Of course large metal masses are probably not as commonly associated with L. Also if you had oxygen isotopes of the silicate inclusions from the iron or for that matter oxygen isotopes of the lithologies that seem to be more like achondrite, you could start to sort out if it is all from the same meteoroid. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Mike and List, Mike, and the behalf of countless others, I hope we hear that story one day. I imagine it must have been pretty bad for you to say it was a little scary. There are a predominance of stony lithologies, but Mike's iron is obviously not an L6 chondrite. So what do we call a mass like Mike's superb iron shield? Do we refer to his specimen as Katol (L6) or do we refer to it as something else? Does Katol have some similarity with Almahata Sitta, in the sense that stones with different lithologies (and classifications) shared the same strewnfield? So, a majority of hand specimens show a curious lithology that is granular, shocked, and originating from the L-chondrite group. Has anyone tried to plot the affinities from the specimens like Mike's that don't match the majority lithology? I'd be curious if they also fit into the L-chondrite group, or, if they were xenoliths hitching a ride in the Katol rubble-pile. Good stuff. It's about time that Katol gets some serious attention. :) Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 1/1/14, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
It is one of the prettiest meteorite pieces I've ever seen, it isn't going to be drilled, cored, cut, slabbed, dipped in acid or melted! The other 4 pieces were sold (Europe I think) let them chop theirs up:) Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 2, 2014, at 9:07 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Carl, Spot on! Question: How much material is required for the oxygen isotope testing??? When we were working on the H-Metal, the ICPMS-LA (Herd) tests completed on the last one used less than 100 milli-grams. And previous INAA (Actlabs) testing used 100 milli-grams. And, as you know sample size was nill! In either case, is not like you have to cut a third of it off. Not sure about the OI tests. Jim On 1/2/2014 8:48 AM, Carl Agee wrote: Hi MikeG and All: The iron might be from L6 if it turns out that the few silicates in it (olivine and pyroxenes) have L6 geochem. You see that in the H-metal from Yucca. Of course large metal masses are probably not as commonly associated with L. Also if you had oxygen isotopes of the silicate inclusions from the iron or for that matter oxygen isotopes of the lithologies that seem to be more like achondrite, you could start to sort out if it is all from the same meteoroid. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6969 - Release Date: 01/02/14 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Mike, Given the wide range of lithologies we are hearing about, all I am saying it might be interesting to test the multiple lithologies and confirm what you are saying. I am not suggesting anything about multiple bodies or not, I don't have an opinion. I am simply describing how you could provide geochem evidence to form a well supported hypothesis. By the way, Laurence's BSE's on FB are unequivocal L6 -- nice equilibrated chondrules! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 9:00 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Carl, you you suggesting this might be from different fall? I was there less than two weeks after the fall. I bought pieces as they were being found right in front of us. When we showed up with cash the whole village ran around picking up stones in 52 degree C (120f) heat. There were stones everywhere including on the street. No one cared until we came with money. We found one stone ourselves. Nearly every villager had stones. It is dead center India, among the poorest places on earth. I saw 5 iron only pieces and numerous partial iron and partial stone pieces. Whatever Katol is, (L6), it has large iron chunks inside and some become complete individuals during the fall. I really would like I clarify that this piece is Katol, I was there as it was found, we bought it seconds after the finder picked it up from beside his house. Can we please accept that this is Katol, not another meteorite! Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 2, 2014, at 8:48 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Hi MikeG and All: The iron might be from L6 if it turns out that the few silicates in it (olivine and pyroxenes) have L6 geochem. You see that in the H-metal from Yucca. Of course large metal masses are probably not as commonly associated with L. Also if you had oxygen isotopes of the silicate inclusions from the iron or for that matter oxygen isotopes of the lithologies that seem to be more like achondrite, you could start to sort out if it is all from the same meteoroid. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Mike and List, Mike, and the behalf of countless others, I hope we hear that story one day. I imagine it must have been pretty bad for you to say it was a little scary. There are a predominance of stony lithologies, but Mike's iron is obviously not an L6 chondrite. So what do we call a mass like Mike's superb iron shield? Do we refer to his specimen as Katol (L6) or do we refer to it as something else? Does Katol have some similarity with Almahata Sitta, in the sense that stones with different lithologies (and classifications) shared the same strewnfield? So, a majority of hand specimens show a curious lithology that is granular, shocked, and originating from the L-chondrite group. Has anyone tried to plot the affinities from the specimens like Mike's that don't match the majority lithology? I'd be curious if they also fit into the L-chondrite group, or, if they were xenoliths hitching a ride in the Katol rubble-pile. Good stuff. It's about time that Katol gets some serious attention. :) Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 1/1/14, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 5:27 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Oh, of course, this the metal-rich piece? * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Some comments that have been made suggest no chondrules, yet there they are in the BSE images. Laurence does give their sizes in the write up and they tend to be really small (200 - 700 um), but not really uncommon. Because of their size, could that be why some are missing them when they look at it and say no chondrules? Jim On 1/2/2014 9:10 AM, Carl Agee wrote: Mike, Given the wide range of lithologies we are hearing about, all I am saying it might be interesting to test the multiple lithologies and confirm what you are saying. I am not suggesting anything about multiple bodies or not, I don't have an opinion. I am simply describing how you could provide geochem evidence to form a well supported hypothesis. By the way, Laurence's BSE's on FB are unequivocal L6 -- nice equilibrated chondrules! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6969 - Release Date: 01/02/14 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Asteroid 2014 AA Hits Earth Today
From MPEC 2014-A02: http://www.minorplanetcenter.net/mpec/K14/K14A02.html It is virtually certain that 2014 AA hit the Earth's atmosphere on 2014 Jan. 2.2 +/- 0.4, as demonstrated by independent calculations by Bill Gray, the MPC and Steve Chesley (JPL). According to Chesley, the impact locations are widely distributed, most likely falling on an arc extending from Central America to East Africa, with a best-fit location just off the coast of West Africa on Jan. 2.10. 2014 AA was unlikely to have survived atmospheric entry intact, as it was comparable in size to 2008 TC3, the only other example of an impacting object observed prior to atmospheric entry. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Jim, For one oxygen isotope analysis, I need way less - 1 mg is sufficient. If there were pieces of silicate sticking out on Mike's sample, along the margin of the cut side, maybe these could just be clipped/broken off? Karen On 1/2/14 9:07 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Carl, Spot on! Question: How much material is required for the oxygen isotope testing??? When we were working on the H-Metal, the ICPMS-LA (Herd) tests completed on the last one used less than 100 milli-grams. And previous INAA (Actlabs) testing used 100 milli-grams. And, as you know sample size was nill! In either case, is not like you have to cut a third of it off. Not sure about the OI tests. Jim On 1/2/2014 8:48 AM, Carl Agee wrote: Hi MikeG and All: The iron might be from L6 if it turns out that the few silicates in it (olivine and pyroxenes) have L6 geochem. You see that in the H-metal from Yucca. Of course large metal masses are probably not as commonly associated with L. Also if you had oxygen isotopes of the silicate inclusions from the iron or for that matter oxygen isotopes of the lithologies that seem to be more like achondrite, you could start to sort out if it is all from the same meteoroid. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6969 - Release Date: 01/02/14 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Hi Karen! Amazing! Great info. I am sure I will be talking to you soon on a project I am working on. Carl has some of the data now. I can understand why Mike is not going to touch his sample! LOL! Maybe one of the other collectors will come forward with one of the other metal specimens! Jim On 1/2/2014 10:05 AM, Karen Ziegler wrote: Jim, For one oxygen isotope analysis, I need way less - 1 mg is sufficient. If there were pieces of silicate sticking out on Mike's sample, along the margin of the cut side, maybe these could just be clipped/broken off? Karen - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6969 - Release Date: 01/02/14 -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Asteroid 2014 AA Hits Earth Today
Who was first to spot this one coming inand how ling before? Graham On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 5:00 PM, Ron Baalke baa...@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov wrote: From MPEC 2014-A02: http://www.minorplanetcenter.net/mpec/K14/K14A02.html It is virtually certain that 2014 AA hit the Earth's atmosphere on 2014 Jan. 2.2 +/- 0.4, as demonstrated by independent calculations by Bill Gray, the MPC and Steve Chesley (JPL). According to Chesley, the impact locations are widely distributed, most likely falling on an arc extending from Central America to East Africa, with a best-fit location just off the coast of West Africa on Jan. 2.10. 2014 AA was unlikely to have survived atmospheric entry intact, as it was comparable in size to 2008 TC3, the only other example of an impacting object observed prior to atmospheric entry. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] VERY Off Topic
Sorry for this intrusion For the past week or so, I've not been receiving posts and Art has been looking into this---no problems on his end and none here I finally called Nova Scotia--(mail handler)--they recently raised Their shields and this blocked some of my mail. They apologised and sent me all of the blocked mail. Alot! Therefore, I now Thank everyone who sent well wishes and their advice. All best to All, John __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Carl, Karen, Jim, Michael et allis the oriented iron (Mike's) simply an isolated portion of a larger mass's metal bleebs? I can't understand how without silicates the iron can be associated, but that's because I'm not up to date.Help? Richard Montgoemry - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com To: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 8:12 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official I am not arguing with Laurence, the photos of the thin sections, the oxygen isotope data seems clear. I am simply showing there is a little more going on with Katol than common (l6). You can examine the piece in Tucson when you come down for the show. I think you'll like it. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 2, 2014, at 9:10 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Mike, Given the wide range of lithologies we are hearing about, all I am saying it might be interesting to test the multiple lithologies and confirm what you are saying. I am not suggesting anything about multiple bodies or not, I don't have an opinion. I am simply describing how you could provide geochem evidence to form a well supported hypothesis. By the way, Laurence's BSE's on FB are unequivocal L6 -- nice equilibrated chondrules! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 9:00 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: Carl, you you suggesting this might be from different fall? I was there less than two weeks after the fall. I bought pieces as they were being found right in front of us. When we showed up with cash the whole village ran around picking up stones in 52 degree C (120f) heat. There were stones everywhere including on the street. No one cared until we came with money. We found one stone ourselves. Nearly every villager had stones. It is dead center India, among the poorest places on earth. I saw 5 iron only pieces and numerous partial iron and partial stone pieces. Whatever Katol is, (L6), it has large iron chunks inside and some become complete individuals during the fall. I really would like I clarify that this piece is Katol, I was there as it was found, we bought it seconds after the finder picked it up from beside his house. Can we please accept that this is Katol, not another meteorite! Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 2, 2014, at 8:48 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Hi MikeG and All: The iron might be from L6 if it turns out that the few silicates in it (olivine and pyroxenes) have L6 geochem. You see that in the H-metal from Yucca. Of course large metal masses are probably not as commonly associated with L. Also if you had oxygen isotopes of the silicate inclusions from the iron or for that matter oxygen isotopes of the lithologies that seem to be more like achondrite, you could start to sort out if it is all from the same meteoroid. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Mike and List, Mike, and the behalf of countless others, I hope we hear that story one day. I imagine it must have been pretty bad for you to say it was a little scary. There are a predominance of stony lithologies, but Mike's iron is obviously not an L6 chondrite. So what do we call a mass like Mike's superb iron shield? Do we refer to his specimen as Katol (L6) or do we refer to it as something else? Does Katol have some similarity with Almahata Sitta, in the sense that stones with different lithologies (and classifications) shared the same strewnfield? So, a majority of hand specimens show a curious lithology that is granular, shocked, and originating from the L-chondrite group. Has anyone tried to plot the affinities from the specimens like Mike's that don't match the majority lithology? I'd be curious if they also fit into the L-chondrite group, or, if they were xenoliths hitching a ride in the Katol rubble-pile. Good stuff. It's about time that Katol gets some serious attention. :) Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Apparantly I didn't read the entire thread carefully enough. Mike, with the picture you posted of the oriented iron, can we see silicates clearly? - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com To: Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 5:24 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official It was bought on the spot from the finders as they lined up to sell the meteorites. It is Katol:) Central India is not Morocco with every person having a box of meteorites to sell. It is almost completely iron, with perhaps 5% silicates. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2014, at 6:05 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Mike and all! Can't tell by looking at it if it's all metal. If it is predominently metal (by a large %) and the olivines and such match that of Katol, then this would be an L-Metalwould it not? Jim On 1/1/2014 5:33 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Yes, the yellow section. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 2, 2014, at 12:21 PM, Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net wrote: Apparantly I didn't read the entire thread carefully enough. Mike, with the picture you posted of the oriented iron, can we see silicates clearly? - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com To: Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 5:24 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official It was bought on the spot from the finders as they lined up to sell the meteorites. It is Katol:) Central India is not Morocco with every person having a box of meteorites to sell. It is almost completely iron, with perhaps 5% silicates. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2014, at 6:05 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Mike and all! Can't tell by looking at it if it's all metal. If it is predominently metal (by a large %) and the olivines and such match that of Katol, then this would be an L-Metalwould it not? Jim On 1/1/2014 5:33 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: Yes, this piece is oriented heat shield shaped with countless flow lines and bubbles on the thick backside crust. There are a couple of crystal-rich sections. It is one of my favorite pieces in my collection, the adventure to acquire was a little scary. Laurence Garvie has taken many photos of it, I am sure he has incredible photos I haven't seen. This photo was the only one I got. The piece is still at ASU on loan, it will be on display at the Tucson show. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
Thank you Greg. Yes, all the pieces of Almahata Sitta sold by either Siegfried Haberer or myself carry the number of the specimen it was cut from. And that is the number assigned to that fragment by Addi Bischoff. Example: MS-169 - Coarse-grained Ureilite MS-174 - Chondrite EL6 MS-181 - Bencubbinite .etc... You can see the whole list there: http://www.impactika.com/Meteorities/ASitta.htm Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Greg Hupé gmh...@centurylink.net To: Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net; meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, Jan 2, 2014 8:40 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official Hi Jim, I wouldn't call it lazy science, but I agree with a numbering system when possible, but when there are several people from around the world involved in a fall collecting stones, it can be impossible to get everyone to go along with the numbering system. Take Chelyabinsk for instance, impossible to number each stone because of the hundreds of people collecting. I think the next best thing is to name/number oddities like the Katol irons as maybe Katol - iron 001. Almahata Sitta was a rare occurrence since one initial scientist/museum had all of the stones that came out and it was easy to assign numbers, same with the single dealer who first offered the variety of stones. Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Jim Wooddell Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 10:29 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official Hi Greg and all, I would not suggest another name nor would I suggest it's a different fall. However I would suggest a numbering schema that maybe followed a find sequence. Katol 001, Katol 005, etc. I say that because if stuff is never studied...ie classifiedwe just will never know what it's make up is. And, that can and does apply to any strewn field. So, everything becomes opinion and guesswork. Lazy science. Jim On 1/2/2014 7:24 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: Since the iron was found with other fresh Katol stony pieces and some of the stony matrix is clearly visible on the outside of the iron, I see no reason to even consider cutting it to get a separate name. That is one nice thing of the iron being collected within a couple days of the fall, and well before any rains came along to oxidize and/or discolor the portion of matric on the iron. I think the few irons should be mentioned in the Official Katol classification, clearly they are 'pop-outs' from the Katol mass. ...just my 2 Rupees worth... Best Regards, Greg __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Asteroid 2014 AA 'Virtually Certain' to Have Harmlessly Impacted Earth
http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2014/01/02/asteroid_2014_aa_harmless_impact_over_atlantic_ocean_last_night.html Tiny Asteroid Discovered Just Yesterday Virtually Certain to Have Harmlessly Impacted Earth By Phil Plait Jan 2, 2014 For just the second time in history, an asteroid was discovered before it impacted the Earth. Don't panic: It was very small, probably just a few meters across, and burned up harmlessly in our atmosphere. But after events of the past year, it underscores the need to keep our eyes open. The asteroid is (well, was) named 2014 AA, the very first asteroid discovered this year. It was detected by the Mount Lemmon Survey using a 150 centimeter (60 inch) telescope located on a mountaintop in Arizona. The first image showing the asteroid was taken on Jan. 1, 2014, at about 06:20 UTC (01:20 EST) - telescopes work whenever the sky is clear, holidays or no. The rock was faint, at about magnitude 19; the faintest star you can see with your naked eye is 150,000 times brighter! But an orbital calculation showed it was very close to Earth, and getting closer. In fact, as the Minor Planet Electronic Circular discovery announcement said, It is virtually certain that 2014 AA hit the Earth's atmosphere on 2014 Jan. 2.2 +/- 0.4 - meaning around 05:00 UTC Jan. 2, midnight EST, just a few hours ago. It most likely burned up over the Atlantic, somewhere between South America and Africa. From its brightness, it was probably about two to four meters across, about the size of a car. Objects that small generally disintegrate as they ram through the Earth's atmosphere at high speed, so there was never any big danger from this object. It orbited the Sun on a path that took it just outside the orbit of Mars to just inside our own. [UPDATE (Jan. 2 at 18:00 UTC): I had originally written the asteroid was less than two meteres across, but astronomer Ron Baalke informed me that it was more like two to four meters across judging from its brightness, so I have updated the post here.] It's only the second time in history that an asteroid was seen before it hit us; the first was 2008 TC3, which burned up over Sudan in Africa in 2008. That one was also discovered just a day before atmospheric entry. Other rocks have been discovered in the past that gave us a very close shave, and usually small asteroids that actually hit us go undetected until someone looks up and sees them! That's because they are so small: That makes them faint and hard to detect. Because they are close by they also tend to move very rapidly across the sky, making them harder to find. The 19-meter wide asteroid that blew up over Russia last year was undetected until it hit, for example. It's possible some satellites may have observed the entry of 2014 AA, and hopefully we'll get an image or two. Stay tuned. And of course this underscores how seriously we need to take asteroid impacts. While 2014 AA wasnt a threat, there are a million bigger rocks out there that cross Earth's orbit, big enough to cause real damage should they hit us. And given enough time, they will. That's why we need to keep scanning the skies, locating and characterizing these asteroids. Both NASA and the B612 Foundation are working on better detection methods, but that's only the first step; we also need a plan in place should we find one with our number on it. B612 is working on that, but we're a long way from being able to implement it. As usual, let me say that you shouldn't run around in circles panicking over this; after all, these are rare events. But if we do nothing at all, we're guaranteeing that a big impact will occur sometime in the future. Like so many problems, the cost of prevention is small compared to the cost of doing nothing. We can afford the former, but not the latter. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Katol iron surface
I have posted a photo of the surface the 136 g Katol iron on my Facebook page. Laurence Garvie CMS ASU __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] First Asteroid Discovered in 2014 Has Impact (2014 AA)
http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news182.html First Asteroid Discovered in 2014 Has Impact (2014 AA) NASA/JPL Near-Earth Object Program Office January 2, 2014 Early Wednesday morning January 1st, while New Year's 2014 celebrations were still underway in the United States, the Catalina Sky Survey near Tucson, AZ, collected a single track of observations with an immediate follow-up on what was possibly a very small asteroid 2-3 meters in size on a potential impact trajectory with the Earth. Designated 2014 AA, which would make it the first asteroid discovery of 2014, the track of observations on the object allowed only an uncertain orbit to be calculated. However if this was a very small asteroid on an Earth impacting trajectory, it most likely hit the Earth's atmosphere last night sometime between 2 pm Wednesday and 9 am Thursday EST. Using the only available observations, three independent projections of the possible orbit by the independent orbit analyst Bill Gray, the Minor Planet Center in Cambridge, MA, and Steve Chesley at the NASA NEO Program Office at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory are in agreement that it would hit Earths atmosphere. According to Chesley, because of the orbit uncertainty the potential impact locations are widely distributed, falling along an arc extending from Central America to East Africa with the best-fit, most likely impact location to be just off the coast of West Africa at about 9 pm EST January 1st. 2014 AA was unlikely to have survived atmospheric entry intact, as it was comparable in size to 2008 TC3 - about 2-3 meters which completely broke up over northern Sudan in October 2008, the only other example of an object discovered just prior to hitting the Earth. So far, there have been a few weak signals collected from infrasound stations in that region of the world that are being analyzed to see if they could be correlated to the atmospheric entry of 2014 AA. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Katol is an L6 - don't tell anyone!
From a collector's point of view could I suggest that readers of the Metlist check their Ebay listings for Katol and revise them as necessary? Currently all listings still seem to refer to it as probably a rare ungrouped achondrite (or similar description) but that is no longer true - unless you question the classification.. Nigel Mann IMCA # 5835 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Katol is an L6 - don't tell anyone!
Katol is a prime example of why people should avoid self-pairings and hand-classifications. One (or a dozen) hand samples may not tell the whole story, and even experienced eyes can be fooled. For all appearances, Katol may have looked like an OC, an achondrite, an iron, a stony-iron, or a slag. Anyone selling specimens from an unclassified fall should ensure that their descriptions are taken as opinion only, and not authoritative. Personally, I thought Katol would be an achondrite, based on the appearance of the early specimens I received. Months later, I heard a rumor from an informed source that it was an achondrite and possibly a planetary. Then, more months passed and I heard from another source that it was an OC. Then I heard it was an L, possibly an L7. Then GSI publishes a paper claiming it was an H5. Now the official classification is released as L6. I will be revising my description of it on the website very soon, and I will also update the Recent Falls page to reflection the official classification. Best regards and Happy Huntings, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 1/2/14, Nigel Julie Mann janam...@cwgsy.net wrote: From a collector's point of view could I suggest that readers of the Metlist check their Ebay listings for Katol and revise them as necessary? Currently all listings still seem to refer to it as probably a rare ungrouped achondrite (or similar description) but that is no longer true - unless you question the classification.. Nigel Mann IMCA # 5835 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Small Asteroid 2014 AA Hits Earth
http://www.skyandtelescope.com/news/home/Small-Asteroid-2014-AA-Hits-Earth-238481431.html Small Asteroid 2014 AA Hits Earth Kelly Beatty Sky Telescope January 2, 2014 Discovered on New Year's Eve by a telescope in Arizona, a small asteroid struck Earth somewhere over the Atlantic Ocean - apparently unnoticed - about 25 hours later. It was New Year's Eve, but that didn't stop observer Richard Kowalski from scanning the sky for near-Earth objects (NEOs). He hadn't been using the 60-inch telescope on Arizona's Mount Lemmon for long when he noticed a 19th-magnitude blip skimming through northern Orion in a seven-image series begun at 5:16 p.m. (1:16 Universal Time on January 1st). After confirming that it was a new find, Kowalski dutifully submitted positions and times to the IAU's Minor Planet Center. Then he went back to the night's observing run. [Graphic] Impact possibilities for 2014 AA This plot shows the range of possible locations where the small asteroid 2014 AA struck Earth's atmosphere early on January 2, 2014. Bill Gray / Project Pluto Thus did the Mount Lemmon reflector, part of the Catalina Sky Survey, discover 2014 AA, the first asteroid found this year. But at the time neither Kowalski nor anyone else realized that the little intruder was only 300,000 miles (500,000 km) from Earth and closing fast. As announced by the MPC earlier today, it's virtually certain that 2014 AA hit Earth. According to calculations by dynamicist Stephen Chesley (Jet Propulsion Laboratory), the impact occurred over the Atlantic Ocean somewhere between Central America to East Africa. Chesley's best-fit collision is just off the coast of West Africa at roughly 2:30 Universal Time this morning. More precision has come from an analysis of infrasound data by Peter Brown (University of Western Ontario). Infrasound is extremely low-frequency acoustic energy (20 hertz or less) created, for example, during energetic explosions. A global network of detectors, maintained by the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty Organization, can pinpoint the location and energy of any powerful detonation - including airbursts from meteoric blasts. [Graphic] Pinpointing 2014 AA's impact The overlap of the white curves, from three marginal infrasound detections, shows where the small asteroid 2014 AA likely hit. However, this preliminary plot does not take winds into account, which might shift the true impact point somewhat further east. Peter Brown According to Brown, 2014 AA triggered very weak detections at three infrasound stations. His triangulation from those records, shown in the graphic at right, indicates that the space rock slammed into the atmosphere near 40° west, 12° north. That location, about 1,900 miles (3,000 km) east of Caracas, Venezuela, is far from any landmass. The energy is very hard to estimate with much accuracy - the signals are all weak and buried in noise, Brown explains. And yet, he adds, we're lucky that the event happened just after local midnight, when winds are calmest. Had this occurred in the middle of the day I doubt we would see any signals at all, he says. Brown's rough guess is that the impact energy was equivalent to the explosive power of 500 to 1,000 tons of TNT - which, though powerful in human terms, implies the object was no bigger than a small car. It was no Chelyabinsk, he says. So 2014 AA was too small to reach the ground intact. But it must have created one heck of a fireball! The skies over the Atlantic were relatively clear last night. Alas, a search of ship- and plane-tracking websites turned up no vessels in that area - it seems that no one was positioned to witness 2014 AA's demise. I'm not aware of any visual sightings, says William Cooke of NASA's Meteoroid Environment Office in Huntsville, Alabama. Looks like it was too far away from human eyes. The impact occurred a little after 3h UT, Brown says. That's only about 22 hours after Kowalski's initial report to the MPC, and it's giving me deja vu all over again. It's been just five years since another small asteroid called 2008 TC3 struck Earth over Sudan just 19 hours after its discovery by the same telescope. The difference between these events is that astronomers had nearly a day of advance warning regarding the 2008 impact. Telescopes worldwide amassed hundreds of observations before the object slammed into the atmosphere, and eventually many fragments were recovered. [Graphic] Orbit of asteroid 2014 AA Based on images taken in the hours before its impact, asteroid 2014 AA averaged 110 million miles (175 million km) from the Sun in a low-inclination orbit that crossed paths with Mars and Earth. It was only a matter of time before it encountered our planet. Click on the image for an interactive version. JPL Horizons There was no heads-up alert this time. I'm kicking myself for not having spotted this, admits amateur NEO sleuth Bill Gray
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunting Collecting Magazine??
Hi list. I for the heck of it clicked on one of my links on my website which was linked to the Meteorite Hunting Collecting Magazine. What I ended up being linked to was a Cooking Journal Cooking. Recipes. Tips, using the same site address! Is this magazine now extinct? On hold? Anyone have an update that may have slipped past me? Thank you. Sincerely Don Merchant Founder-Cosmic Treasures Celestial Wonders www.ctreasurescwonders.com IMCA #0960 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official
That is one sick meteorite ;-) Happy New Year, Dave www.fallingrocks.com -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jim Wooddell Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 1:16 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KATOL (L6) is official Here is Mike Farmer's picture: http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/desertsunburn/media/katolphoto_zps463296b4 .jpg.html -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
Today's Meteorite Picture of the Day: Sah 00305 Contributed by: Hanno Strufe http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpodmain.asp __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
