Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration
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On 23-Oct-2001 Peter Eisentraut wrote:
Gunnar Rønning writes:
| * In numerous attempts I have failed to convince Ant to place the built
| files in a tree different from the source tree. This really makes it a
| pain to build for multiple architectures (in Java, architecture =
| different jdk).
javac srcdir=${src}
destdir=${build}
classpath=xyz.jar
debug=on
/
Is that what you want ?
Yes, but ant refused to recognize the srcdir as absolute and thinks it's
relative to the build dir. (Or at least it was something stupid like
that; it's been a while.)
That should work fine. I've been doing that since Ant version 1.3. Do you have
a specific case that doesn't work? (You can always specify absolute paths in
the properties, if you like...)
From the Ant manual :
It is possible to use different compilers. This can be selected with
the build.compiler property.
Yeah, but how do you set the build.compiler property? This requires
pretty advanced knowledge.
You can either set-it in the build.xml file via a property tag
property name=build.compiler value=jikes/
or during the startup of ant using the -D flag. (set the ANT_OPTS var to
-Dbuild.compiler=jikes in your environment before running ant)
Virtually,
Ned Wolpert [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: FW: Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration
* Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | Seriously would installing GNU Make be enough, or would you need to install | Cygwin and other packages as well ? | | GNU make runs natively on Windows. I know and I've used GNU Make when working with Windows, but that taught me that you often need alot more than GNU Make to port a makefile to Windows. Maybe maintaining two versions would be the best, ie. Make is used when building the distribution and Ant makefiles are provided for the convenience of users that think Ant works better. Then you could probably setup some very simple Makefile without full dependency graph(if you want that you need rely on a tool like jikes to generate it for you). That basically means that you need to recompile all *.java files when you have edited one Java file. -- Gunnar Rønning - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Consultant, Polygnosis AS, http://www.polygnosis.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: FW: Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration
Gunnar Rønning writes: Seriously would installing GNU Make be enough, or would you need to install Cygwin and other packages as well ? GNU make runs natively on Windows. -- Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://funkturm.homeip.net/~peter ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 20-Oct-2001 Gunnar Rønning wrote: | * Ant doesn't provide an exit status; you have to watch the build to see | if it works. This is unacceptable. Hmm. Anybody with a solution here ? Actuall, it does. Example: [wolpert@wolpert configTest]$ ant build Buildfile: build.xml prepare: build: BUILD SUCCESSFUL Total time: 2 seconds [wolpert@wolpert configTest]$ echo $? 0 [wolpert@wolpert configTest]$ ant build Buildfile: build.xml prepare: build: [javac] Compiling 1 source file to /home/wolpert/test/configTest/classes [javac] /home/wolpert/test/configTest/src/GetAll.java:25: ';' expected [javac] jdo.setDatabaseName(configTest); [javac]^ [javac] /home/wolpert/test/configTest/src/GetAll.java:24: cannot resolve symbol [javac] symbol : class fds [javac] location: class GetAll [javac] jdo.setConfiguration(/database.xml);fds [javac] ^ [javac] /home/wolpert/test/configTest/src/GetAll.java:25: jdo is already defined in getDatabase() [javac] jdo.setDatabaseName(configTest); [javac] ^ [javac] 3 errors BUILD FAILED /home/wolpert/test/configTest/build.xml:35: Compile failed, messages should have been provided. Total time: 4 seconds [wolpert@wolpert configTest]$ echo $? 1 [wolpert@wolpert configTest]$ Virtually, Ned Wolpert [EMAIL PROTECTED] D08C2F45: 28E7 56CB 58AC C622 5A51 3C42 8B2B 2739 D08C 2F45 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE71FvwiysnOdCML0URAqiRAJ4g8TL2aY9fAj25JzOw+mabnBG8PACggEOK xQOWn7giK++ZRDAsfyDtzsE= =M4Ld -END PGP SIGNATURE- ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: FW: Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration
Ned Wolpert writes: 3) Java is system independant, and the JDBC driver is a client piece. I should be able to compile the JDBC driver outside of PostgreSQL server if I wanted to, right? Example, I can't compile PostgreSQL on windozes 95. But I could compile the JDBC driver via ant if Java and ant are installed. (Or, rather, I should be able to) You can also install GNU make on Windows. -- Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://funkturm.homeip.net/~peter ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration
* Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
|
| * Ant needs to be installed. Of course this is not that much of a
| problem because you can simply install it. However, in automated build
| environments this might not be so easy, so people are just going to opt to
| leave out the JDBC driver.
This can be solved by including the ant binaries.
| * Ant doesn't provide an exit status; you have to watch the build to see
| if it works. This is unacceptable.
Hmm. Anybody with a solution here ?
|
| * In numerous attempts I have failed to convince Ant to place the built
| files in a tree different from the source tree. This really makes it a
| pain to build for multiple architectures (in Java, architecture =
| different jdk).
javac srcdir=${src}
destdir=${build}
classpath=xyz.jar
debug=on
/
Is that what you want ?
|
| * Ant doesn't support gcj last I checked. This is a real tragedy because
| gcj is the only free(tm) Java compiler available that seems to have a real
| future. Ant doesn't support Kaffe very well, btw.
It does support it now according to the documentation. I think open source
jikes has a better future as a compiler, but it is not free in the GNU sense.
| * The Ant language is not nearly as powerful as the stuff you can do in
| Makefiles.
Well, make doesn't solve the build problems for Java. Ant is made to remedy the
problems with make and create and easier to use build tool for Java apps. The
adoption rate of Ant suggests that the developers have been doing something
right ;-)
|
| * Ant is, well, different. I have personally spent a lot of effort to
| make all parts of PostgreSQL build the same way. Every new language has
| to reinvent configuration and build management: Perl MakeMaker -- total
| junk, Python distutils -- no thanks, Tcl -- well, at least they had the
| right idea. Ant -- one more thing to go wrong. Currently, everything you
| want to switch and change about the build of PostgreSQL you communicate to
| the configure script. How do you change the Java compiler? Good question
| -- not even the Ant manual can answer that because it depends on your
| particular distribution.
From the Ant manual :
It is possible to use different compilers. This can be selected with
the build.compiler property.
|
| The problem is that Ant is a completely new and different tool that we
| have to deal with, but it doesn't actually solve a problem that hasn't
| been solved already.
It solves some of the problems with make and it runs easily on platforms
like Windows and Mac.
When Ant 2.0 comes it will be a even more general task/build system as it will
allow for scheduling ala cron as well. But that is off-topic ;-)
--
Gunnar Rønning - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Senior Consultant, Polygnosis AS, http://www.polygnosis.com/
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Re: FW: Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration
* Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | compile the JDBC driver via ant if Java and ant are installed. (Or, rather, I | should be able to) | | You can also install GNU make on Windows. This is how we used to build or apps on Windows before Ant, but we portability issues with respect to scripts invoked from make is a PITA, IMHO ;-) Seriously would installing GNU Make be enough, or would you need to install Cygwin and other packages as well ? Has anybody tested this ? I suspect that something like that would not work painless. -- Gunnar Rønning - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Consultant, Polygnosis AS, http://www.polygnosis.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration
Dave Cramer writes: The one issue I have with a non ant based build system is that it makes it difficult to build the driver on a windows machine. That is a valid concern that we're going to have to think about before we move to another method. What problems does ant present? * Ant needs to be installed. Of course this is not that much of a problem because you can simply install it. However, in automated build environments this might not be so easy, so people are just going to opt to leave out the JDBC driver. I'm sure we can use the Makefile to install the ant jar. * Ant doesn't provide an exit status; you have to watch the build to see if it works. This is unacceptable. Hmmm... I will look into this * Ant is buggy. We've had numerous reports of people having trouble with it for no apparent reason. I can also confirm from my own experience that numerous things don't seem to work the way they should work. I find this a little hard to believe given the number of projects which use ant as a primary build tool. jarkarta.apache.org for instance * In numerous attempts I have failed to convince Ant to place the built files in a tree different from the source tree. This really makes it a pain to build for multiple architectures (in Java, architecture = different jdk). I think this can be overcome. I have had no problems with this. * Ant doesn't support gcj last I checked. This is a real tragedy because gcj is the only free(tm) Java compiler available that seems to have a real future. Ant doesn't support Kaffe very well, btw. There are a number of free compilers, sun's is free, ibm's is free * The Ant language is not nearly as powerful as the stuff you can do in Makefiles. No comment I am Make challenged, but Ant is pretty comprehensive... * Ant is, well, different. I have personally spent a lot of effort to make all parts of PostgreSQL build the same way. Every new language has to reinvent configuration and build management: Perl MakeMaker -- total junk, Python distutils -- no thanks, Tcl -- well, at least they had the right idea. Ant -- one more thing to go wrong. Currently, everything you want to switch and change about the build of PostgreSQL you communicate to the configure script. How do you change the Java compiler? Good question -- not even the Ant manual can answer that because it depends on your particular distribution. Change the $JAVA_HOME environment variable AFAIK The problem is that Ant is a completely new and different tool that we have to deal with, but it doesn't actually solve a problem that hasn't been solved already. Well, this is a little philosophical, but my current focus is java, and ant is the de-facto standard for building java programs, so I guess I'm biased towards it. One thing it does solve is the ability to resolve inter-dependancies automatically. I have had builds which can only be built by ant, or by building the entire source tree at once. This is one feature which is usefull. As for a solution. My opinion is that we should support both. There seems to be enough interested parties to support both build tools. For the folks that want a Makefile, they can support it. If someone wants to support the build.xml file, then we should encourage it. I suspect that one of them will become obsolete on it's own. Dave ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration
* Dave Cramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | | There seems to be enough interested parties to support both build tools. | For the folks that want a Makefile, they can support it. If someone | wants to support the build.xml file, then we should encourage it. I | suspect that one of them will become obsolete on it's own. I think that would be the best as well for time being. Don't remove ant support as that is very useful for the people working on the JDBC code, and add standard make files for building the system. Make itself is not designed to work with a language like Java, so you need third party tools to handle dependencies. Gunnar -- Gunnar Rønning - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Consultant, Polygnosis AS, http://www.polygnosis.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: FW: Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 19-Oct-2001 Bruce Momjian wrote: One significant issue here is that unlike our other binaries, the JAR files run on any platform so they don't really need to compile in MS Win. They can just download it from a web site or we could ship the jdbc JAR ourselves. True. I was really looking at it from those who wanted to build the jar from source. If we make the jarfile available from the website, that's good for the PostgreSQL releases, but it may not help those who want/need the JDBC driver updated from CVS. Virtually, Ned Wolpert [EMAIL PROTECTED] D08C2F45: 28E7 56CB 58AC C622 5A51 3C42 8B2B 2739 D08C 2F45 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE70LuNiysnOdCML0URAn2tAJwOg8HpKskzyVvwucubAJ8/teXMgwCdENc1 Siu6Fx305Zh69RG5+U/Vbx4= =SXet -END PGP SIGNATURE- ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FW: Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration
I guess I can make an argument either way. The real way to answer this is to ask if one cares if you can build the JDBC driver on window's only platform without cygwin installed. -If the answer is no, that one wouldn't build the JDBC driver without building the rest of postgresql, then the build process should be tied to make, like the rest of postgresql, for simplisity in maintence. -However, if the JDBC driver should be able to be built without having to build postgresql, (on platforms without UNIX-compatiablity layer like cygwin) for client use only, then yes, use Ant to achive platform-independance. One significant issue here is that unlike our other binaries, the JAR files run on any platform so they don't really need to compile in MS Win. They can just download it from a web site or we could ship the jdbc JAR ourselves. -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup.| Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FW: Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration
* Ned Wolpert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Win. They can just download it from a web site or we could ship the | jdbc JAR ourselves. | | True. I was really looking at it from those who wanted to build the jar from | source. If we make the jarfile available from the website, that's good for the | PostgreSQL releases, but it may not help those who want/need the JDBC driver | updated from CVS. And it doesn't help potential _JDBC driver_ developers sitting on Windows platforms either. But me too is usually all Linux or Solaris, but I'm just trying to illuminate the issues. -- Gunnar Rønning - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Consultant, Polygnosis AS, http://www.polygnosis.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
FW: Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration
I meant to send this to the group... -FW: [EMAIL PROTECTED]- Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:45:43 -0700 (MST) Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Ned Wolpert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Barry Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Two cents with of thought... :-) On 18-Oct-2001 Barry Lind wrote: * People with Java background probably know Ant better that 'make'. Ant seems to become 'build tool of choice' in Java world. Perhaps, but I'm not convinced that either of these arguments is true. I have seen make used by more projects than ant, and a developer building postgres from source, certainly needs to be familiar with make. Ant is great in a pure-java project. I have seen ant used as the primary build engine in many Java projects, and it works great for me. But, here are some (conflicting) thoughts. 1) To some degree, the make process of PostgreSQL should be consistant. Ant and Make are two seperate building systems. Its easier to put the JDBC driver into make than it is to put postgresql into ant. 2) Correct me if I'm wrong, but currently, Make is needed to run Ant in the JDBC driver anyways, right? (To grab the version numbers and set the properties when running ant) Yet... 3) Java is system independant, and the JDBC driver is a client piece. I should be able to compile the JDBC driver outside of PostgreSQL server if I wanted to, right? Example, I can't compile PostgreSQL on windozes 95. But I could compile the JDBC driver via ant if Java and ant are installed. (Or, rather, I should be able to) 4) Ant doesn't need to be 'installed' in other projects. Rather, they include the needed ant libs in the CVS, which is allowed by the license, and create a build script to call the ant process to build. (Usually a build.sh and a build.bat) We could do that to also set the version numbers rather than have make do it. I guess I can make an argument either way. The real way to answer this is to ask if one cares if you can build the JDBC driver on window's only platform without cygwin installed. -If the answer is no, that one wouldn't build the JDBC driver without building the rest of postgresql, then the build process should be tied to make, like the rest of postgresql, for simplisity in maintence. -However, if the JDBC driver should be able to be built without having to build postgresql, (on platforms without UNIX-compatiablity layer like cygwin) for client use only, then yes, use Ant to achive platform-independance. I'm lucky enough to only work with Linux, so I don't really care on the outcome of this :-) I can work with either. Virtually, Ned Wolpert [EMAIL PROTECTED] D08C2F45: 28E7 56CB 58AC C622 5A51 3C42 8B2B 2739 D08C 2F45 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE70GbGiysnOdCML0URAnl5AJ9VkJs0QXr1GEzzFVxW5CzNLDRl1wCfbOmM O2tENKYPCsDAx6I42NoYh5U= =CSwI -END PGP SIGNATURE- --End of forwarded message- ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 19-Oct-2001 Barry Lind wrote: Did you send this just to me or the entire list. It appears that you sent it just to me. I think the good points you make here should be seen by everyone. Can you send it to the pgsql-jdbc list? Whoops. Yeah, I just now resent it to the group. Thanks for catching that. Specifically, if we can include the ANT libraries in our CVS then my objection to ANT (requiring users to trackdown and download ANT) goes away, and I would then suggest we continue to use ANT for the other reasons you mention. Works for me. As I mentioned in my last email, I'm easy about this one. As long as I can build it in Linux/UNIX, I'm happy. Its an added benefit to the postgresql community that it can be built on Windows and Mac. Virtually, Ned Wolpert [EMAIL PROTECTED] D08C2F45: 28E7 56CB 58AC C622 5A51 3C42 8B2B 2739 D08C 2F45 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE70HePiysnOdCML0URAinrAJ9ejMSsr0TZm157jso5MSDAEKtMdwCfRCzy iIQ3byuD7zyFsM96QgoWsnA= =x5M1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration
* Dave Cramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | The one issue I have with a non ant based build system is that it makes | it difficult to build the driver on a windows machine. I think is a valid concern, since a lot of clients presumably will be running on other architectures. Maybe a twofold solution ? 1. a very simple make file that doesn't care about dependencies and such. 2. ant as an alternative for developers and users of other platforms. And I think more and more projects are migrating towards using Ant. Even I have done so after 10 years of using make ;-) -- Gunnar Rønning - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Consultant, Polygnosis AS, http://www.polygnosis.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration
* Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | I think I can safely at to TODO: | | JDBC | o Move from Ant to Make builds I don't think there is consesus over at the JDBC list yet. We need to get all the pros/cons for both solutions on the table first. Make is not neccesarily better than Ant, I would think a combination would work best. Because then Mac and Windows users could use Ant to compile their JDBC driver, while the compilation of the server on Unices would work seamlessly. -- Gunnar Rønning - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Consultant, Polygnosis AS, http://www.polygnosis.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration
-Original Message- From: Dave Cramer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 03:17 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration Given that ant is (or is becoming) the defacto standard for building java apps I am reluctant to remove it. A number of projects simply include the ant jar in the download. And why not include the postgresql.jar in the download as well? Problem solved for most people. Preferably even separate jar files for jdbc1 and jdbc2. I vote for keeping ant support as well. Jeroen ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration
On Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 07:37:27PM -0700, Barry Lind wrote: I am one of the jdbc maintainers. That is why I posted this to the list as I did. I wanted to see if there was concensus on this issue one way or the other. In looking at your patch, I don't have any problems with it technically, but I would hate to have it applied, only to remove the entire functionality in the future (although I guess that doesn't really hurt anything). Ok. I do appreciate you taking your time to put this patch together and submitting it. That is how open source projects work after all. I just want to make sure there is agreement that this is the right direction people want the jdbc driver to go. No problem. About Ant-Makefile thing I still cant convince myself that this is a project worth doing. Ant's only downside is that user needs to set it up separately and its not a very easy thing to do. And at the time of Ant 1.1 this was a real problem (for me at least) as Ant had rather obscure compatibility problems with various XML libs and finally I decided that 'Ant sucks'. But with Ant 1.3/1.4 they seems to have that kind of a problems under control and at least I have not had any problems with it since then. But it seems to me that Ant has a positive side too: * People with Java background probably know Ant better that 'make'. Ant seems to become 'build tool of choice' in Java world. * When Ant is set up, it takes care of all local Java environment, so we in PostgreSQL source do not need to bother about it. * In Ant the build file will be much less complex than a Makefile with same functionality. And same time in Ant it is much easier to check local Java internal setup. Basically I am able to do it, I have managed moderately sized Java project with Makefile, but it was not nice. You could check JDBC Makefile from Jan 2001 - it is quite messy. -- marko ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration
Marko, But it seems to me that Ant has a positive side too: I agree that there are positive reasons to use Ant (that is why it was done in the first place). It is just that in retrospect, I don't believe the pluses outweigh the minuses. * People with Java background probably know Ant better that 'make'. Ant seems to become 'build tool of choice' in Java world. Perhaps, but I'm not convinced that either of these arguments is true. I have seen make used by more projects than ant, and a developer building postgres from source, certainly needs to be familiar with make. * When Ant is set up, it takes care of all local Java environment, so we in PostgreSQL source do not need to bother about it. I'm not sure what you mean here. Can you provide an example? * In Ant the build file will be much less complex than a Makefile with same functionality. And same time in Ant it is much easier to check local Java internal setup. I agree that this is true, but I think a much better job can be done to minimize the added complexity. I have looked at the old makefile and it was quite complex. But I have ideas on how to reduce that complexity. Basically I want to trade off a little more complexity on the part of the developers of jdbc, for less complexity for users to install and build. thanks, --Barry ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration
The one issue I have with a non ant based build system is that it makes it difficult to build the driver on a windows machine. Currently I can build the driver on windows without using cygwin What problems does ant present? Dave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Peter Eisentraut Sent: October 18, 2001 5:04 PM To: Barry Lind Cc: Marko Kreen; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration Barry Lind writes: I don't like this patch. If anything I think we should remove the dependency on ANT, not remove the dependency on make. The use of Ant originally seemed attractive because it would solve the detection of the jdk version, the portable invocation of the compiler, and the dependency generation. However, I must currently consider this experiment a failure, because for each problem Ant solves it introduces a load of worse problems into the system. Thus, if we can agree to work out a configure/make-based system for the next release I would be very much for it. -- Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://funkturm.homeip.net/~peter ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration
Barry Lind writes: I don't like this patch. If anything I think we should remove the dependency on ANT, not remove the dependency on make. The use of Ant originally seemed attractive because it would solve the detection of the jdk version, the portable invocation of the compiler, and the dependency generation. However, I must currently consider this experiment a failure, because for each problem Ant solves it introduces a load of worse problems into the system. Thus, if we can agree to work out a configure/make-based system for the next release I would be very much for it. I think I can safely at to TODO: JDBC o Move from Ant to Make builds -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup.| Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration
* In Ant the build file will be much less complex than a Makefile with same functionality. And same time in Ant it is much easier to check local Java internal setup. I agree that this is true, but I think a much better job can be done to minimize the added complexity. I have looked at the old makefile and it was quite complex. But I have ideas on how to reduce that complexity. Basically I want to trade off a little more complexity on the part of the developers of jdbc, for less complexity for users to install and build. I don't mind either way really, but I don't see why the makefile should need to be so complex. One option is also since Postgresql uses configure to build, we can use configure to help us detect whatever we need to if --with-java is turned on and set suitable options/paths etc in the makefile. That said I haven't really looked at the current build process for the driver. Tom. -- Thomas O'Dowd. - Nooping - http://nooper.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Testing - http://nooper.co.jp/labs ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration
I don't like this patch. If anything I think we should remove the dependency on ANT, not remove the dependency on make. By requiring ANT, we provide yet another hurdle for someone wanting to use JDBC with postgres. I would prefer that the build environment be the same for the database as for the jdbc code. Anything that makes it more difficult to download the source and get going with it is a negative in my opinion. And from my perspective requiring the download of an additional tool (ANT in this case) makes it more difficult. I already know that some binary distributions of postgres do not include JDBC simply because it is too complex to get ANT installed in their build environment. (complex perhaps isn't the right word, but it is more work than they are willing to put in for a small feature of postgres). thanks, --Barry Marko Kreen wrote: I dusted a old patch that integrates Ant better with autoconf. It creates a file src/ant.cfg.in to pass autoconf parameters to Ant. Now Ant can be used directly, without going through Makefile. 'install.directory' is still passed in Makefile to keep DESTDIR working. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration
Given that ant is (or is becoming) the defacto standard for building java apps I am reluctant to remove it. A number of projects simply include the ant jar in the download. Dave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Barry Lind Sent: October 17, 2001 4:23 PM To: Marko Kreen Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration I don't like this patch. If anything I think we should remove the dependency on ANT, not remove the dependency on make. By requiring ANT, we provide yet another hurdle for someone wanting to use JDBC with postgres. I would prefer that the build environment be the same for the database as for the jdbc code. Anything that makes it more difficult to download the source and get going with it is a negative in my opinion. And from my perspective requiring the download of an additional tool (ANT in this case) makes it more difficult. I already know that some binary distributions of postgres do not include JDBC simply because it is too complex to get ANT installed in their build environment. (complex perhaps isn't the right word, but it is more work than they are willing to put in for a small feature of postgres). thanks, --Barry Marko Kreen wrote: I dusted a old patch that integrates Ant better with autoconf. It creates a file src/ant.cfg.in to pass autoconf parameters to Ant. Now Ant can be used directly, without going through Makefile. 'install.directory' is still passed in Makefile to keep DESTDIR working. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED]) ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
