[biofuels-biz] Fwd: Bio Vehicles
Please reply to him direct, cc the list - he's not a member. Keith From: Ryan N. Doyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Bio Vehicles Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 12:25:51 -0500 Good Day! I'm coordinator for the 3rd Annual Southern Energy Environment Expo, which has drawn nearly 4,000 people each year for the last two years. (More info on event at http://www.seeexpo.com/www.seeexpo.com ). Unfortunately, while we've had hybrids and some electric vehicles, so far no luck with working bio-diesel or ethanol. Any leads, contacts or clues to find a way to display these types would be appreciated. Thank You! Peace, Ned Ryan Doyle Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: [berkeleybiodiesel] [biofuel] crosspost schoolbus conversions (fwd)
Just crossposting. James Slayden -- Forwarded message -- Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 12:28:31 -0800 (PST) From: James Slayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [berkeleybiodiesel] [biofuel] crosspost schoolbus conversions (fwd) So, here is what I found out. The Certificate to haul waste grease (oil) is $100 per year for the 1st vehicle, and $75 for every vehicle there after. The certificate is annually renewable in January and you get both a certificate paper and a sticker for the vehicle. No hazzardous materials training is necessary. So, basically it's only if ya get caught oil diving where this would really be an issue. I'm sure that no one is going to stop ya and see what's in the 5 gal pails (or other container). It's more of a comfortability issue with those people who get nervous with legal issues. But, it might be good to get it to be on the safe side. James Slayden Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Fwd: Reminder WEbcasting from Kyoto/Rappel Sessions Forum Kyoto sur le web
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 17:16:24 -0500 From: Pauline Dole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Reminder WEbcasting from Kyoto/Rappel Sessions Forum Kyoto sur le web IDRC's Webcasting of the Third World Water Forum in Kyoto has started IDRC invites you to watch the various sessions and interviews from the Third World Water Forum (Kyoto, Japan) that are now available on the web. You can watch interviews with Eglal Rached, Director of IDRC's Office in the Middle East; Naser Faruqui, Senior Program Specialist and expert in water issues at IDRC; Margaret Catley-Carlson, IDRC Board member; and many others. Moreover, the sessions that have already been webcasted include the presentation of researchers on the Andean Water Vision and Indigenous Water Rights. More interviews and sessions will be put on line in the next few days. Interviews and sessions are available at http//worldwaterforum.idrc.ca/ -- Les sessions du Troisime Forum mondial de l'eau sur le web Le CRDI vous invite regarder sur la toile un choix de sances et d'interviews en provenance du 3e Forum mondial de l'eau qui se droule Kyoto (Japon). Vous pouvez voir et entendre des interviews avec des spcialistes du CRDI tels Eglal Rached, directrice du bureau du CRDI au Moyen-Orient, Naser Faruqui, spcialiste principal de programme au CRDI, Margaret Catley-Carlson, membre du Conseil des gouverneurs du CRDI, et bien d'autres participants. Parmi les sances dj diffuses on peut voir la prsentation de chercheurs latino-amricains portant sur la Vision de l'eau et les droits autochtones l'usage de l'eau dans les Andes. D'autres interviews et sances seront diffuses dans les jours venir. Le site des web-vnements http//worldwaterforum.idrc.ca/index-fr.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] 69 Landrover
Michael, I have a 88 in series II, 1961 It has a 2.25litre Diesel. They were a standart fit and used the same block as the 2.25 petrol. It is good for about 60 bhp but I wouldn't recommend it in a 109 if you want to get anytwhere even moderately fast. Will plod on forever though. expect 23 mpg Follow the discussion on the Tdi200 and 300 engines, they will fit in an 88in series L/R and are a much better option. Avoid the 2.5 ltr n/a Turbo indirect diesels that L/R made upto 1989, They are just too overstressed. Ken . - Original Message - From: Michael Ashton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:40 PM Subject: [biofuel] 69 Landrover Hi everyone, I have a 69 series IIA 109' Land Rover with a gasoline engine. I am sure they must have made a diesel version. I live in British Columbia Canada and I am wondering how difficult or hopefully easy it would be to locate one suitable for my truck. Might anyone know anything about this? I am also wondering how plausible it would be to retrofit a newer diesel and if the cost would be prohibitive or not. Many thanks. Michael _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bush Clings To Dubious Allegations About Iraq
Am I missing something here? I thoght this was a biofuel list, not how to turn our politicos and other miscreants into waste oil. (wait a second, that could solve a lot of our problems) Brian - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 1:55 PM Subject: [biofuel] Bush Clings To Dubious Allegations About Iraq http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42517-2003Mar17.html Bush Clings To Dubious Allegations About Iraq By Walter Pincus and Dana Milbank Washington Post Staff Writers Tuesday, March 18, 2003; Page A13 As the Bush administration prepares to attack Iraq this week, it is doing so on the basis of a number of allegations against Iraqi President Saddam Hussein that have been challenged -- and in some cases disproved -- by the United Nations, European governments and even U.S. intelligence reports. For months, President Bush and his top lieutenants have produced a long list of Iraqi offenses, culminating Sunday with Vice President Cheney's assertion that Iraq has reconstituted nuclear weapons. Previously, administration officials have tied Hussein to al Qaeda, to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, and to an aggressive production of biological and chemical weapons. Bush reiterated many of these charges in his address to the nation last night. But these assertions are hotly disputed. Some of the administration's evidence -- such as Bush's assertion that Iraq sought to purchase uranium -- has been refuted by subsequent discoveries. Other claims have been questioned, though their validity can be known only after U.S. forces occupy Iraq. In outlining his case for war on Sunday, Cheney focused on how much more damage al Qaeda could have done on Sept. 11 if they'd had a nuclear weapon and detonated it in the middle of one of our cities, or if they had unleashed . . . biological weapons of some kind, smallpox or anthrax. He then tied that to evidence found in Afghanistan of how al Qaeda leaders have done everything they could to acquire those capabilities over the years. But in October CIA Director George J. Tenet told Congress that Hussein would not give such weapons to terrorists unless he decided helping terrorists in conducting a WMD [weapons of mass destruction] attack against the United States would be his last chance to exact vengeance by taking a large number of victims with him. In his appearance Sunday, on NBC's Meet the Press, the vice president argued that we believe [Hussein] has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons. But Cheney contradicted that assertion moments later, saying it was only a matter of time before he acquires nuclear weapons. Both assertions were contradicted earlier by Mohamed ElBaradei, director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency, who reported that there is no indication of resumed nuclear activities. ElBaradei also contradicted Bush and other officials who argued that Iraq had tried to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes to use in centrifuges for uranium enrichment. The IAEA determined that Iraq did not plan to use imported aluminum tubes for enriching uranium and generating nuclear weapons. ElBaradei argued that the tubes were for conventional weapons and it was highly unlikely that the tubes could have been used to produce nuclear material. Cheney on Sunday said ElBaradei was wrong about Iraq's nuclear program and questioned the IAEA's credibility. Earlier this month, ElBaradei said information about Iraqi efforts to buy uranium were based on fabricated documents. Further investigation has found that top CIA officials had significant doubts about the veracity of the evidence, linking Iraq to efforts to purchase uranium for nuclear weapons from Niger, but the information ended up as fact in Bush's State of the Union address. In another embarrassing episode for the administration, Secretary of State Colin L. Powell cited evidence about Iraq's weapons efforts that originally appeared in a British intelligence document. But it later emerged that the British report's evidence was based in part on academic papers and trade publications. Sometimes information offered by Bush and his top officials is questioned by administration aides. In his March 6 news conference, Bush dismissed Iraq's destruction of its Al Samoud-2 missiles, saying they were being dismantled even as [Hussein] has ordered the continued production of the very same type of missiles. But the only intelligence was electronic intercepts that had individuals talking about being able to build missiles in the future, according to a senior intelligence analyst. Last month, Bush spoke about a liberated Iraq showing the power of freedom to transform that vital region and said a new regime in Iraq would serve as a dramatic and inspiring example of freedom for other nations in the region. But a classified State Department report
Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost!
Keith: The problem my friend Buzz had was coming back to a country practically as an enemy. The majority saw the US defeated, the abandonment of Saigon, Mai Lai, etc, on tv and these returning soldiers really took the blame for the outcome. There were job shortages to face for those that needed something to get busy at. There was little to no debriefing for thousands, just landing, shedding their equipment and decom cold turkey. Lots of them had mental problems. Lots had sleep deprivation, having learned to light sleep. Many had drug problems because it was everywhere over there. That is why a lot of them were soon skid row bums. Buzz pulled out of it somehow by the grace of God. Lots didn't. Ed - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost! Well put. I am old enough to know a few veterans of Viet Nam. Some will not talk about what they did. Some do. After returning home, one went 'down the pike' to the lowest levels on drugs and alcohol. A streeter. Most of the guys he went with died over a few years, as the lowest dregs of society. Bums. Fogged in drugs and alcohol. That would have been his fate too, but somehow he survived. What I am getting at is, for the sake of society, and the young soldiers, war better be fully justified, or it will create burden that gets paid for again and again over time, with the twisting of minds of young soldiers. Ed B That seems to be what they think too, or some of them at least. http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15356 Veterans' Letter to the President By Veterans For Common Sense http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/ March 11, 2003 The following letter was signed by 1,000 war veterans and given to the President on March 10, 2003. snip Another veterans' group, Veterans Against Iraq War is organizing three days of protest in Washington D.C. from March 22 to March 24. http://www.vaiw.org/vet/index.php Others also think so: http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15ItemID=3255 Support Our Troops by Michael Albert March 17, 2003 IRAQ If war comes even despite the historic, tenacious, and comprehensive opposition now raging across the planet, the U.S. government will proclaim triumphantly that everyone who isn't a traitor needs to rally around Washington to support our troops. Opponents of the war could opt for many possible replies. We could point out that our troops in Iraq are barely in danger at all because they are assaulting a tenth-rate opponent that has no serious means to defend Iraq much less to attack the world's sole superpower. We could point out that while perhaps a few hundred U.S. troops will die in this war, way over 50,000 U.S. citizens will die in the next 12 months due to workplace accidents and death by industry-caused diseases and automobile accidents (not to mention the impact of pollution and unsafe products). We could then query why this massive yearly blight on our population, roughly 15 times as devastating as 9/11, doesn't provoke a war on corporations' profit-seeking violations of their employees' and consumers' health and safety. Or we could point out that the lives of American troops are no more worthy of compassionate support than the lives of Iraqis, and that we didn't kill Hussein a million times over with our decade-long sanctions but we instead killed a million Iraqis once each -- with Hussein getting stronger as each new corpse was added to the carnage. And of course we could explain how unleashing a campaign to shock and awe a country is unjust and immoral, how it is an archetype example of the terrorism we say we are against. But for myself, I think that perhaps a different approach might work better, and so if war does come, I intend to reply to the demand to support our troops by saying that yes, I too support our troops. I will reply that I support our troops not having to kill people in Iraq. I support our troops not being ordered to assault defenseless populations, towns, farms, and the infrastructural sinews of life that sustain a whole country's citizenry. I support our troops not having to carry out orders from Commander in Chief George Bush and then having to live the rest of their lives wondering why they obeyed such a barbaric buffoon rather than resisting his illegitimate, immoral authority. And for the same reason, I support the Pope and the Dalai Lama going to Iraq in the place of our troops, as human shields and also to aid those Iraqis who have already suffered under our sanctions and bombs as well as under the violence of Hussein who was, of course, previously the recipient of
Re: [biofuel] In Iraq Crisis, Networks Are Megaphones for Official Views
On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 03:11 pm, Keith Addison wrote: FAIR-L Fairness Accuracy In Reporting Media analysis, critiques and activism ACTION ALERT: In Iraq Crisis, Networks Are Megaphones for Official Views March 18, 2003 I have been mostly deleting all the political discussion recently... In addition to it making me ill, I just don't have anything to say. (well, perhaps that it is a little OT for biofuels, but I don't mind. that is what the Del key is for, right?) Usually in these situations I can sit back and quote teh wonderful mantra we aussies have, only in America... Implying that America is big, bloated, self-important, blinker-visioned and largely stupid [1]. But I can't now, because we (regardless of how much we say, well I didn't vote for him) are doing this too. Damn it! Someone today pointed out that the expected cost of the war (not including the cost of maintaining Iraq afterwards, or whatever) is close to 100 billion USD... what else could we do with 100 billion USD? (well, except pay off something less than 5% of 3rd world debt, currently running at US$2.3 million million...) [1] Present company excepted, ofcourse ;-) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Hemp is not the myth that others would tend to propagate.
Myles Twete wrote: Maybe some day they'll ban nettles, hops and flax because they're just too closely related to evil weeds. Don't give them any ideas. The Religious Right is always looking for new things to prohibit. AP -- Aviation is more than a hobby. It is more than a job. It is more than a career. Aviation is a way of life. A second language for the world: www.esperanto.net Processor cycles are a terrible thing to waste: www.distributed.net Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost!
Dear Hakan, I agree with what you have said completely. But there is one area where see the same thing from a different perspective or in a different way. I see the current resumption of increased hostilities (war) as an extension of the war that started over 12 years ago and has been going on since then in a more limited way as the politicians tried to make the peace that Saddam had agreed to work. During all this time Iraq has continued to act belligerently (just ask any of the collision fighter pilots that have been fired on by their anti aircraft units and yes we fired back) this is not a new or preemptive situation it is, hopefully the conclusion of a long and sad war which could have been ended much earlier and many lives saved and much suffering could have been avoided. How long must that death and suffering continue in the name of a political solution? All out war is very bad, dragged out war may be even worse if you are the object of the suffering. Best regards, Vern Dear Vern, I can not imagine anything worse happening to me than if I unintentionally or intentionally would cause the death of a human being. I met many people who has been in that situation and still have to meet one who has not been scarred for life of that experience. This has been people involved in accidents as well as people who participated in wars. I am not talking about decision makers nor am I talking mentally disturbed people. I can accept that violence like war can be necessary to defend yourself from an attack. It is nothing that anyone can say that preemptive violence and killing can ever be a just cause.Ê If I do, I would accept many of the reasons for past wars as just wars, even if they were lost. President Bush and cohorts make me sick. Not only are they talking about wars like it would be a Hollywood adventure and childish games of who is blinking first, the are actually trying to defend their killing of people, based on that the other party might do something. Preemption is a very dangerous thing and if it is accepted as a doctrine, it will be used by others and this world will forever change. During the whole of US history it has been a strong rejection of preemption as an excuse for war. President Bush makes me sick and I am sad that I had to live to see the first American President who starts a preemptive war, this against a strong world opinion and with the lack of any democratic principles. If democratic principles are worth anything for Bush or Blair, they had to take in count the world opinion. Instead they cowardly redraw a resolution to gain a possibility to legally defend their attack on Iraq. I feel sorry for you, if you are not anti war. Any normal human being must be anti war, it is unbelievable to find any sane person that are pro war. Violence is the weapon of the weak. I picked up the following quote and it is very telling, No flag is large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people -- Howard Zinn But on the other hand collateral damage does not sound so bad or does it? Hakan At 11:12 PM 3/18/2003 +0300, you wrote: Well Keith, there so far are two list members who are not anti war, we have only tried to correct an incorrect assumption made by another list member. History will, after time, tell us all who is right and who is wrong. In the meantime we enjoy the right to have differing opinions. You continue to try to educate us with lots of information each day to try to make your point. It is your list and you can do as you will, I can not and would not try to stop you. It would be a pleasant change if you stopped the personal attacks against individuals who do not share your view of the world and who do you the courtesy of treating you with personal respect even when we may not think you are correct. It is a simple and courteous thing to do. Best regards, Vern Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT [IMAGE] [IMAGE] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is
Re: [biofuel] In Iraq Crisis, Networks Are Megaphones for Official Views
On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 03:11 pm, Keith Addison wrote: FAIR-L Fairness Accuracy In Reporting Media analysis, critiques and activism ACTION ALERT: In Iraq Crisis, Networks Are Megaphones for Official Views March 18, 2003 I have been mostly deleting all the political discussion recently... In addition to it making me ill, I just don't have anything to say. Why not? (well, perhaps that it is a little OT for biofuels, Many here disagree - partly or largely or entirely, it's about oil and power, not off-topic issues on a list dealing with alternative energy options. but I don't mind. that is what the Del key is for, right?) Some at least here disagree with that too, especially me - please see: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=21700list=BIOFUEL Usually in these situations I can sit back and quote teh wonderful mantra we aussies have, only in America... Implying that America is big, bloated, self-important, blinker-visioned and largely stupid [1]. Wow - I don't agree with that either, and I think I'm not at all alone there too. We've had recent discussions on the difference (a great difference!) between Americans and America - America being the government, the administration, the powers-that-be. There was some agreement in referring to the former as Americans, and to the latter as Washington. But I can't now, because we (regardless of how much we say, well I didn't vote for him) are doing this too. Damn it! You're interested in biofuels, this concerns you. You're a citizen of Planet Earth, this concerns you. Someone today pointed out that the expected cost of the war (not including the cost of maintaining Iraq afterwards, or whatever) is close to 100 billion USD... what else could we do with 100 billion USD? (well, except pay off something less than 5% of 3rd world debt, currently running at US$2.3 million million...) Most or all 3rd World debt should not be paid off, it should be written off. How about this? American and European annual expenditure on pet food: $17 billion per year. Estimated annual cost of providing universal healthcare and nutrition for everyone in the world: $13 billion per year. - United Nations Development Programme, Human Development Report, 1998. http://www.undp.org/hdro/1998/98.htm) Did you read this message? - or delete it as political? http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=22659list=BIOFUEL Best wishes Keith Addison [1] Present company excepted, ofcourse ;-) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: VW diesel into small rear wheel drive pickup conversion
Hi Stanley, I am also from Canada. Vancouver Island, BC. Where abouts are you? I would be interested in your VW P/Us if you are geographically accessable. Maybe you could sell what you have and buy a differnet engine? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Credibility Bomb
Greg Doug Ireland doesn't know does he Greg? But you know don't you Greg? But strangely I also know Greg. Both you and I know who has worked on, developed and, who knows, stocks those weapons don't we Greg? Easy to have double standards isnt it? Go forth SR --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nuclear weapons are not the most lethal weapons ever devised. That honor goes first to biological weapons, then to chemical weapons. Imagine a disease that the symptoms looks like pneumonia, but a week to 10 days after the symptoms decline, the patient dies because the outer sheath on neurons has eroded away. It exist! Imagine Ebola crossed with the Flu. It exist! Genetic manipulation has made these things possible. How about A.I.D.S. that is as easy to catch as the common cold? How about a cross of small pox, anthrax, and botulism ? Worried yet? Scares the hell out of me. A few ounces of VX can render a place the size of Denver a graveyard in just a few hours if dispersed properly. How the heck do you decontaminate a 25 story building? Saran is almost as bad and easier to make as is mustard gas. A precursor to at least one chemical weapon is carbon monoxide and then add in 2-3 other things, and you have a weapon. Pound for pound, compared to biological and chemical weapons, a nuclear bomb is relatively contained and minor, messy yes, but it affects a small area. A small nuclear bomb might weigh 30 lbs. and might kill a million people, 30 lbs. of VX can easily kill 5 million, and 30 lbs. of a nasty biological weapon could kill 10 million. Doug Ireland has knows nothing of weapons and hence no credibility were they are concerned. Greg H. - Original Message - http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/7426 Credibility Bomb Doug Ireland is a New York-based media critic and commentator. The powerful odor of mendacity (to borrow Tennessee Williams' phrase) hung over George Bush's primetime virtual declaration of war Monday night. When Bush proclaimed that The Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised, that was a lie. What are the most lethal weapons ever devised? Why, nuclear weapons, of course. That Iraq possesses nukes, or is even close to making them, is something for which Bush has been unable to provide any evidence that would withstand scrutiny. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost!
Dear Vern, I am glad that you are anti war also. Josh Cohen expressed a very large trust in the members of this list when he said that it was 100% anti war, something that I belive also. It is a large trust in the list members to say so, but if you say that they are not, then you will have an argument with our Shepherd. Do you really think that you could offend the list members without hearing from Keith? Even if it might be a misunderstanding created by the moment. My position is that what happens now is wrong and against some very fundamental principles. The fundamental principle of the wrong in preemptive wars are so important, that it overrides any other argument that can be made for the current illegal attack on Iraq by US and UK. It does not exclude that we can have discussions about the moment and wonder how and why Bush/Blair got it so wrong. It is also very sad that the US propaganda machine works so well as it does. It is a hidden agenda there and it is the US desperate need for securing oil supplies and the US/UK oil companies wish to participate in developing what might be the largest oil reserves on Earth. Bush/Blair are talking about the fund of oil money that will be used for the Iraqi people. They are taking us for idiots and hope that it will obscure how it is working. It is not a matter of escaping from paying for the oil, it is a matter of getting their hands on the only tap that is not yet fully open. By doing that they can control world market prices and continue to pillage the gold of Middle East at $25 a barrel. It cannot be a continuation of the war 12 years ago, since that was a liberation of Kuweit by UN and the mandate only covered this. That is why it stopped when the mandate was achieved. It was supported by a world opinion and was a response on an attack by Iraq. It had democratic decisions behind it and created and performed in a legal fashion. What scares me a lot is the parallels with what happened in Germany in the 1930's and I pointed that out in an early stage. I am no alone and MH gave us a very interesting link that goes along the same lines, Published on Sunday, March 16, 2003 by CommonDreams.org When Democracy Failed: The Warnings of History by Thom Hartmann http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0316-08.htm Unfortunately the events are now running the course and we will probably only be able to discuss how we should get Bush/Blair to answer for their crimes in the future. To discuss how we should prosecute Saddam Hussein for his crimes will probably not be possible. Hakan At 10:42 AM 3/19/2003 +0300, you wrote: Dear Hakan, I agree with what you have said completely. But there is one area where see the same thing from a different perspective or in a different way. I see the current resumption of increased hostilities (war) as an extension of the war that started over 12 years ago and has been going on since then in a more limited way as the politicians tried to make the peace that Saddam had agreed to work. During all this time Iraq has continued to act belligerently (just ask any of the collision fighter pilots that have been fired on by their anti aircraft units and yes we fired back) this is not a new or preemptive situation it is, hopefully the conclusion of a long and sad war which could have been ended much earlier and many lives saved and much suffering could have been avoided. How long must that death and suffering continue in the name of a political solution? All out war is very bad, dragged out war may be even worse if you are the object of the suffering. Best regards, Vern Dear Vern, I can not imagine anything worse happening to me than if I unintentionally or intentionally would cause the death of a human being. I met many people who has been in that situation and still have to meet one who has not been scarred for life of that experience. This has been people involved in accidents as well as people who participated in wars. I am not talking about decision makers nor am I talking mentally disturbed people. I can accept that violence like war can be necessary to defend yourself from an attack. It is nothing that anyone can say that preemptive violence and killing can ever be a just cause. If I do, I would accept many of the reasons for past wars as just wars, even if they were lost. President Bush and cohorts make me sick. Not only are they talking about wars like it would be a Hollywood adventure and childish games of who is blinking first, the are actually trying to defend their killing of people, based on that the other party might do something. Preemption is a very dangerous thing and if it is accepted as a doctrine, it will be used by others and this world will forever change. During the whole of US history it has been a strong rejection of preemption as an excuse for war. President Bush makes me sick and I am sad that I had to live to see the first American President who starts a preemptive war, this against a strong world
Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost!
Dear Hakan, You wrote -- It cannot be a continuation of the war 12 years ago, since that was a liberation of Kuweit by UN and the mandate only covered this. That is why it stopped when the mandate was achieved. It was supported by a world opinion and was a response on an attack by Iraq. It had democratic decisions behind it and created and performed in a legal fashion. I think this is the central difference between the two sides of this issue. From my perspective if we can for the moment look at it like it were a court case and at the end of the last Gulf War the judge awarded a verdict of guilty against Saddam and ordered him to do certain things, which included disarming and he would suffer house arrest (UN sanctions) until the judge found him rehabilitated. Now some 12 years latter the judge has had enough of his games and finds him in contempt of court and orders him arrested and thrown in jail. It is still one case even after the property he took is returned to its owner. It is regrettable that the UN has not been able to function in a way that the security counsel members could vote for what is right instead of the self interest of their own country. That is politics and we do not seem to have any better solution. There are many other big problems in the world today that an effective UN could help with but as of now they have not been very effective on any of the major issues for the last 20 or so years at least from my limited view point. I do agree that there are some very concerning similarities between what is happing now and the events of the 1930's. It seems that you think oil at $ 25 is to low a price but it will be very much lower than that if the good people of this list have their way (and I hope they do) so that we find sustainable energy sources for the bulk of the worlds needs. If and when that happens the Middle East will have millions of people starving to death and the few that survive will only be able to return to the life style before oil and I think that will be very hard as many of the skills required are being lost as the current generation is not being trained to live other than in standard western style cities. I fear it will be a very big mess that will make this coming war look like a football game. Have a good day. Best regards, Vern Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc: 03/19/03 02:20 PMSubject: Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS Please respond to INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost! biofuel Dear Vern, I am glad that you are anti war also. Josh Cohen expressed a very large trust in the members of this list when he said that it was 100% anti war, something that I belive also. It is a large trust in the list members to say so, but if you say that they are not, then you will have an argument with our Shepherd. Do you really think that you could offend the list members without hearing from Keith? Even if it might be a misunderstanding created by the moment. My position is that what happens now is wrong and against some very fundamental principles. The fundamental principle of the wrong in preemptive wars are so important, that it overrides any other argument that can be made for the current illegal attack on Iraq by US and UK. It does not exclude that we can have discussions about the moment and wonder how and why Bush/Blair got it so wrong. It is also very sad that the US propaganda machine works so well as it does. It is a hidden agenda there and it is the US desperate need for securing oil supplies and the US/UK oil companies wish to participate in developing what might be the largest oil reserves on Earth. Bush/Blair are talking about the fund of oil money that will be used for the Iraqi people. They are taking us for idiots and hope that it will obscure how it is working. It is not a matter of escaping from paying for the oil, it is a matter of getting their hands on the only tap that is not yet
RE: Not getting emails - was RE: [biofuel] Re: Credibility Bomb
Thank you Keith: I don't think it is a virus on my end. I lost a year of date to a virus, one time. I prescreen all Emails before they enter my PC, and then a weekly scan. Yahoo must be having a hiccup. Harley -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 8:55 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Not getting emails - was RE: [biofuel] Re: Credibility Bomb Hi Greg and Harley I don't know what could be wrong, nothing that I can see - both your accounts are okay, should be working fine. Could be Yahoo problems, and could also be virus action blocking up the networks, or possibly your computers - have you checked? Let me know if you think there's anything I can do to help. Greg: You too. I have been sending in responses, and they somehow are not getting through. Some make it and some don't. The ones that don't make it through are not getting bounced back to me either, so Yahoo must be having problems. Harley -Original Message- From: Greg Harbican [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 5:50 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Re: Credibility Bomb I know he does not know a thing about weapons. It does not mean that I can ignore what what is going on, it does not even mean that I have to like what is going on, but, I do think that to some extent, it is a nasty thing that may need to be done. For what reason? Best wishes Keith Greg H. BTW..Keith, I havn't recieved any e-mail from the group since I posted last time, Do you know what is going on? --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Er, right, Greg, you've got a label on him now, so you can just safely ignore it all then. Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Hemp is not the myth that others would tend to propagate.
The religious right had nothing to do with hemp banning, it was competing business. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Alan S. Petrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 2:38 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hemp is not the myth that others would tend to propagate. Myles Twete wrote: Maybe some day they'll ban nettles, hops and flax because they're just too closely related to evil weeds. Don't give them any ideas. The Religious Right is always looking for new things to prohibit. AP -- Aviation is more than a hobby. It is more than a job. It is more than a career. Aviation is a way of life. A second language for the world: www.esperanto.net Processor cycles are a terrible thing to waste: www.distributed.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: VW diesel into small rear wheel drive pickup conversion
I live in Kitchener which is 100 Km from Toronto. If anybody in the area has a Toyota, Nissan or Mazda diesel engine that they would like to sell let me know. stan Glenn wrote: Hi Stanley, I am also from Canada. Vancouver Island, BC. Where abouts are you? I would be interested in your VW P/Us if you are geographically accessable. Maybe you could sell what you have and buy a differnet engine? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor http://rd.yahoo.com/M=245314.3072841.4397732.2848452/D=egroupweb/S=1705083269:HM/A=1495890/R=0/*http://www.netbizideas.com/yheb42%20 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Lots of Guns - No Butter!
Our school food programs went downhill when Reagan replaced vegetable with ketchup. Nobody told him a tomato was a fruit ... Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 12:08 AM Subject: [biofuel] Lots of Guns - No Butter! Lots of Guns - No Butter! Draconian Cuts in School Lunch, Food Stamp and Farm Bill Programs to be decided this Week by the US House of Representatives Call your representatives this week if you care about nutrition and farm program gains from the last Congress. Urge them to protect our society's most vulnerable at this time of national crisis. Tell your representative not to allow proposed cuts in Child Nutrition, Food Stamp and those Farm Bill programs vital to the health of low income children, their families, the environment and family farmers. Call tomorrow. Call the US Capitol Switchboard to get your representative's phone number: 202-224-3121 Ask for the staff responsible for child nutrition programs and/or agriculture. Leave a message if you get voice mail. For more information on the pending cuts, see the March 17 press release from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities at http://www.cbpp.org/3-12-03bud2-pr.pdf Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS
bratt wrote: Once Bush starts the bloodletting and anyone retaliates, then he has all he needs to call his Red Alert and call off America's famed Bill of Rights. Is it any wonder he wants to start the killing as fast as possible. Once it's off, there's no stopping it. America is not the only country to follow this path and definitely not the first. In Canada, it is called the Emergency Measures Act and it was implemented in the early 70' during the FLQ crisis. All restrictions on arrest and questioning were canceled across the entire country, not just in Quebec where the problem was. The police had the right to pick up anyone, for any reason and hold them as long as they liked, with no appeal or rights. Most countries feel that their are times when such measures are required. I can see arguments for both sides, but hated living with the implementation of such acts. Fortunately, that time in Canada it only lasted for 3 or 4 months. Bright Blessings, Kim Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: B100 Dream Team
Thanks Keith, As I am new to this process and just getting my feet wet (or oily!) it is good to know that the process is simple enough that homebrewers (or startup plant operators?) can make good fuel. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kelly wrote: snip The idea is to be or become your own middleman or be in close partnership and profit sharing with the middlemen. I assume from what I've read that fuel grade B100 is a bit more involved then homemade batch's of biodiesel (those pesky government specs, spurred on no doubt by the petrol gang). Not so, wrong assumption, homebrewers can and do make high-quality biodiesel with the techniques now available to them, up to standard spec and beyond. Much attention is paid to quality control. Industry people are inclined to jump to this conclusion, and even to spread rumours about bad-quality homebrew wrecking the market potential and causing widespread trouble - which, after some heated arguments here on this list, they were forced to withdraw, to admit that there was no evidence of such incidents, and to admit that they were in error and homebrewers could and did produce a quality product. This was one of the major biodiesel industries. This person then undertook to try to see to it that the industry sector was a bit better informed about us and a little less prejudiced. All in the archives, and much besides concerning quality. It's more or less a constant discussion here, and elsewhere. Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost!
Hi Keith. Either it was just a counter opinion, with no evidence, or it was a statement that Vern himself supports the war, which would be evidence, and it seems that's how both you and I took it. So he'd then be right in that the group's anti-war stance is not total. But, in my opinion, as stated, and that of the large majority of the group, Vern's support for the war is wrong, and can only be based on ignoring a great deal of information, much of which has been posted here. Your opinion is that Vern's support for the war is wrong. His opinion is that support is not wrong. It's also his opinion that a great deal of information posted on this group, from which anti war supporters base their opinion, is incorrect, fabricated, or inconclusive, and therefore should be ignored. You have stated that it's ok on this group to have different opinions. It appears you are telling him his opinion is wrong. This is not fact based information like how many grams of lye to add to methanol. All of this is based on shaky data and even shakier conclusions (both sides, pro and anti). So if it's correct to have differing opinions, is it correct to dismiss someone's opinion when it differs from yours? Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 11:11 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost! Ummm. I fail to see how Vern's remark merits this response. Andrew postulated that 100% of the group is against the war. Vern presented a datapoint that invalidates Andrew's assertion. Vern may be right or wrong in his support of this war, but in this post all he did was provide evidence that invalidated Andrew's overgeneralization. No more and no less. John Hello John all he did was provide evidence that invalidated Andrew's overgeneralization. No more and no less. Either it was just a counter opinion, with no evidence, or it was a statement that Vern himself supports the war, which would be evidence, and it seems that's how both you and I took it. So he'd then be right in that the group's anti-war stance is not total. But, in my opinion, as stated, and that of the large majority of the group, Vern's support for the war is wrong, and can only be based on ignoring a great deal of information, much of which has been posted here. Best Keith Addison Keith Addison wrote: Vern_Hendershott wrote: You would be wrong. And so would you be Vern, as you have been all along. You've been closing your eyesto a lot of things, eh? Keith i would bet to say our group is 100% anti war (or so i hope) - Original Message - From: John Hayes To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 7:55 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost! Tricia Liu wrote: The polls from media are still showing 54% - 59%??? American supports the Iraqi war! Can we have a poll in this group? So we can see how many members think the war is necessary etc.? It's a world event, can we have a small poll? Set it up at Journeyforever website? Such a poll would be useless given selection bias issues inherent to nonrandom sampling. Besides, do you really need a straw poll to conclude that the majority of list readers are against this war? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS
Kim Garth Travis wrote: America is not the only country to follow this path and definitely not the first. In Canada, it is called the Emergency Measures Act and it was implemented in the early 70' during the FLQ crisis. All restrictions on arrest and questioning were canceled across the entire country, not just in Quebec where the problem was. The police had the right to pick up anyone, for any reason and hold them as long as they liked, with no appeal or rights. Didn't the Brits do it first in response to IRA bombings? I thought that was how Gerry Conlon's confession was coerced. John Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost!
Dear Vern, We have a very important issue here and that is the court of law that you talk about. Any court of law acts as an arbitrator, within its given powers and respect for them by the parties. The honorable judge Lynch would have been proud of his nation, if he would have been alive to see what is going on. We have US that acts like the prosecution and the judge, because the appointed judge was not willing to render a verdict to the US liking and self interest. The damage done to the court UN by US is immense. $25 is a target price by US, where they can maintain the American way of life. $40 for a longer period will be very difficult and close to $60 the American society will start to deteriorate. This is not my analyses, it is based on several US data, so do not get angry with me. This also means that Iraqi suggestions of oil blockade, was an immediate threat to the US national security and probably the reason for the war. It is however not yet a recognized crime to refuse to deliver national treasures to the US, but in future it might be. One of the biggest unsolved crises that UN had to deal with, is the Israel - Palestine issues and US have through repeated vetoes sabotaged it. For many years now, US have also sabotaged UN by withholding its agreed member fees. I also want to tell you, if you do not really know, that US and UK are the industrial countries that contributes the lowest amounts per capita to UN and other help programs for the developing countries. Sweden is among the highest and I am in that sense proud of being a Swede. Let us together hope and work for a better world. We need many Keith Addison and Journey to Forever for it to work. This is one of the few occasions were I even think about possible benefits of cloning, but I am not sure that it will work, so forget it and do not start a discussion on cloning now, please. Hakan At 02:44 PM 3/19/2003 +0300, you wrote: Dear Hakan, You wrote -- It cannot be a continuation of the war 12 years ago, since that was a liberation of Kuweit by UN and the mandate only covered this. That is why it stopped when the mandate was achieved. It was supported by a world opinion and was a response on an attack by Iraq. It had democratic decisions behind it and created and performed in a legal fashion. I think this is the central difference between the two sides of this issue. From my perspective if we can for the moment look at it like it were a court case and at the end of the last Gulf War the judge awarded a verdict of guilty against Saddam and ordered him to do certain things, which included disarming and he would suffer house arrest (UN sanctions) until the judge found him rehabilitated. Now some 12 years latter the judge has had enough of his games and finds him in contempt of court and orders him arrested and thrown in jail. It is still one case even after the property he took is returned to its owner. It is regrettable that the UN has not been able to function in a way that the security counsel members could vote for what is right instead of the self interest of their own country. That is politics and we do not seem to have any better solution. There are many other big problems in the world today that an effective UN could help with but as of now they have not been very effective on any of the major issues for the last 20 or so years at least from my limited view point. I do agree that there are some very concerning similarities between what is happing now and the events of the 1930's. It seems that you think oil at $ 25 is to low a price but it will be very much lower than that if the good people of this list have their way (and I hope they do) so that we find sustainable energy sources for the bulk of the worlds needs. If and when that happens the Middle East will have millions of people starving to death and the few that survive will only be able to return to the life style before oil and I think that will be very hard as many of the skills required are being lost as the current generation is not being trained to live other than in standard western style cities. I fear it will be a very big mess that will make this coming war look like a football game. Have a good day. Best regards, Vern Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc: 03/19/03 02:20 PMSubject: Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS Please respond to INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost! biofuel Dear Vern, I am glad that you are anti war also. Josh Cohen expressed a very large trust in the members of this list when he said that it was 100% anti war, something that I belive also. It is a large trust in the list members to say so, but if you say that they are not, then you will have an argument with our
RE: [biofuel] Lots of Guns - No Butter!
Ron was the vegetable. -Original Message- From: Steve Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 6:36 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Lots of Guns - No Butter! Our school food programs went downhill when Reagan replaced vegetable with ketchup. Nobody told him a tomato was a fruit ... Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 12:08 AM Subject: [biofuel] Lots of Guns - No Butter! Lots of Guns - No Butter! Draconian Cuts in School Lunch, Food Stamp and Farm Bill Programs to be decided this Week by the US House of Representatives Call your representatives this week if you care about nutrition and farm program gains from the last Congress. Urge them to protect our society's most vulnerable at this time of national crisis. Tell your representative not to allow proposed cuts in Child Nutrition, Food Stamp and those Farm Bill programs vital to the health of low income children, their families, the environment and family farmers. Call tomorrow. Call the US Capitol Switchboard to get your representative's phone number: 202-224-3121 Ask for the staff responsible for child nutrition programs and/or agriculture. Leave a message if you get voice mail. For more information on the pending cuts, see the March 17 press release from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities at http://www.cbpp.org/3-12-03bud2-pr.pdf Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.461 / Virus Database: 260 - Release Date: 3/10/2003 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] the concept of this war
March 19, 2003 A very different war Harlan Ullman As President George W. Bush orders U.S. forces into action against Saddam Hussein, it will be to wage a very different type of war. In the past, America resorted to war only if there were a casus belli, a smoking gun that aroused the nation and justified the use of force. And, the primary aim was to win the war by defeating the enemy's military as a first order of business. A second war with Iraq will not fit this description. History shows why. In 1898, the sinking of the battleship Maine in Havana Harbor was the spark for the short war with Spain that established the United States as a global power with overseas colonies. Germany's unrestricted submarine warfare, brought home by the sinking of the ocean liner Lusitania, gave President Wilson the rationale for entering the war to end all wars. In 1941, Japan's surprise attack on Pearl Harbor awakened a sleeping giant. North Korea's invasion of the south in 1950 and the Tonkin Gulf incident in 1964 led to America's fighting in two Asian wars. And, even the intervention in Grenada in 1983, Panama in 1989 and the first Gulf War in 1991 all had provocations. That there were miscalculations is, of course, true. The Maine was sunk by an internal explosion in its coaling bins. The Tonkin Gulf incident was grossly misrepresented by the Johnson administration as a pretext for sending forces to Vietnam. And, while the Reagan administration publicly feared for the safety of American students in Grenada, the real reason for the intervention was to prevent a potentially Marxist regime from keeping power. War against Iraq, however, lacks the direct provocation of other wars. The reasons for war are pre-emptive and preventative. Mr. Bush believes that the possibility of future links between Saddam and terrorist organizations, combined with Iraqi mass-destruction weapons, constitutes a clear and present danger. War now rather than war later is justified to protect the United States from future attack. No doubt there is near-certain knowledge in the White House that Saddam has these weapons and that they will be uncovered after Iraq is liberated from his rule. On that, he is betting not only his presidency, but the reputation of the United States. In all other wars, victory was won by defeating the enemy's military. Spain proved, fortunately, to be a weak opponent. The United States entered World War I late enough so that the central powers had been exhausted by war. World War II was won by an arsenal of democracy that made victory inevitable, outproducing the Axis enemy in every area of military capability. Korea was a draw. And, we lost in Vietnam. The victory in Desert Storm was based on then-Joint Chiefs Chairman Colin Powell's powerfully concise statement of strategy. Regarding the Iraqi army in Kuwait, we will cut it off and kill it. And we did, to a large extent. That is not the aim in a next war against Saddam. The object is to remove Saddam and the Ba'athist regime as quickly, decisively and inexpensively as possible. In essence, the operation is a hostage-rescue scenario on a huge scale. The Iraqi army is a secondary target. Much of it will be bypassed. Much if it is expected to surrender without a fight. Hence, destroying it is a waste in human and political terms, provided that it poses neither threat nor resistance. The means for removing Saddam is based, if the press is accurate, on a strategy of shock and awe. The rapid, overwhelming might of the United States will be brought to bear on Iraq's military and political leadership with stunning effect. As a principal author of the short book Shock and Awe and co-chairman of the group that spent several years in developing the concept, I was bemused to learn from friends in the press that the Pentagon had embraced this notion. Whether this is indeed true, I know not. But the object of shock and awe is to compel the enemy to do our will through the precise, intense and selective application of all forms of power and coercive force. By most accounts, the superiority of U.S and coalition forces over Iraq is many times greater than it was in 1991. There is little question that we will prevail and probably quickly. However, war is, by nature, filled with uncertainty. And, while a rapid, stunning victory with relatively little loss of life will surely create a favorable political condition, that may not be enough. Because this war is so different, there is a final irony. It is the peace that will dictate who ultimately won the war. In that regard, the Bush administration would be well-advised to concentrate its future intellectual and practical efforts. Harlan Ullman, a distinguished former naval officer and past teacher at the National War College, is currently with
Re: [biofuel] Re: Hemp is not the myth that others would tend to propagate.
Not necessarily entirely true. The morality of the American public (oddly enough with a predominat inclination towards religious affiliiation per capita) was openly preyed upon by self-interests. While no Pat Robertsons, Jerry Falwells or Brother Jeds of the era come immediately to mind, this battle was waged equally in the religious sector ot the country and no doubt that wing contributed its share of uninformed zealots and zealotry with as equal a fervor as the pagan sector. There were no sanctuarys from this particular epidemic of ignorance during that period. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hemp is not the myth that others would tend to propagate. The religious right had nothing to do with hemp banning, it was competing business. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Alan S. Petrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 2:38 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hemp is not the myth that others would tend to propagate. Myles Twete wrote: Maybe some day they'll ban nettles, hops and flax because they're just too closely related to evil weeds. Don't give them any ideas. The Religious Right is always looking for new things to prohibit. AP -- Aviation is more than a hobby. It is more than a job. It is more than a career. Aviation is a way of life. A second language for the world: www.esperanto.net Processor cycles are a terrible thing to waste: www.distributed.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Not getting emails - was RE: [biofuel] Re: Credibility Bomb
I went to the groups section and tried to e-mail the messages, that I had not received, to my self ( using yahoos little box to e-mail a massage to others ), and that didn't even come through. I update Norton's AV twice a week and scanning my system once a week, more if I hear of a new bug making the rounds, so I doubt that it's my system. Then again it could have been the carnivore, because I did mention a few things that is not to be talked about , and I always seem to have a few problems with e-mail, after talking about them even little as I did that one post. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 19:55 Subject: Not getting emails - was RE: [biofuel] Re: Credibility Bomb Hi Greg and Harley I don't know what could be wrong, nothing that I can see - both your accounts are okay, should be working fine. Could be Yahoo problems, and could also be virus action blocking up the networks, or possibly your computers - have you checked? Let me know if you think there's anything I can do to help. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost!
Hakan Falk wrote: $25 is a target price by US, where they can maintain the American way of life. $40 for a longer period will be very difficult and close to $60 the American society will start to deteriorate. This is not my analyses, it is based on several US data, so do not get angry with me. Well, yes and no. On its face, such a statement is true as $60 a barrel would disrupt American life somewhat. However, such a malthusian reading of the situation ignores other forces and adjustments that could come into play. Texas, Pennsylvania, and Louisiana crude become economically viable once prices spike. Increased trucking costs would cause the cost of goods to rise, but it might also shift more freight back to the railroad. Increased cost at the gas pump would drive people away from SUVs and toward carpooling and smaller cars. Likewise, I'd bet that 3 billion pounds of surplus soybean oil the USDA has laying around would get turned into SMEs pretty damn fast. I also bet people would figure out how to do something with all that West Virginia and Wyoming coal. So anyway, distruption, yes. Deterioration, No. For many years now, US have also sabotaged UN by withholding its agreed member fees. I also want to tell you, if you do not really know, that US and UK are the industrial countries that contributes the lowest amounts per capita to UN and other help programs for the developing countries. Sweden is among the highest and I am in that sense proud of being a Swede. Yes, and the US pays 25% of the total UN budget as well as 30% of the peacekeeping budget. Nor does this include the billions of dollars the US donates in manpower and logistics to worldwide peacekeeping opperations for which other nations are routinely reimbursed. Do I think the US should pay its dues in full in a timely manner? Absolutely. But I also think it is disingenuous to ignore that the US is the largest contributor in absolute dollars. Some other facts to consider: US population as percentage of total of World Population: 4.6% US GNP as a as percentage of total of World GNP: 29% Percentage of UN dues paid by the US: 25% My point being that you can argue it either way based on population or economic wealth but it is unfair to only pick the statistic that supports your agenda. John Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Credibility Bomb
- Original Message - From: canros_uk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 02:41 Subject: [biofuel] Re: Credibility Bomb Greg Doug Ireland doesn't know does he Greg? No he doesn't. But you know don't you Greg? More than he does. But strangely I also know Greg. Then you know what I'm talking about, and how bad Chem Bugs really are. Both you and I know who has worked on, developed and, who knows, stocks those weapons don't we Greg? We can only hope that we know who has those stocks, who is developing them, and were they are. Easy to have double standards isnt it? In some cases, I'm glad it is so. Just because I have an idea of how some weapons are made, I sure as hell am not going to tell others, and will try and go out of my way to prevent it from spreading to an extent. It's one thing to help spread information that will help the world, and another thing to spread information ( and technology ) that will harm the world in the wrong hands. Yes, I know that people will equate this with Bush, as much as with Saddam, but, Bushes amount of control, as well as the amount of time he has for that control, is limited, were Saddam's has no controls at all. Greg H. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost!
- Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 07:00 Subject: Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost! Dear Vern, We have a very important issue here and that is the court of law that you talk about. Any court of law acts as an arbitrator, within its given powers and respect for them by the parties. The honorable judge Lynch would have been proud of his nation, if he would have been alive to see what is going on. We have US that acts like the prosecution and the judge, because the appointed judge was not willing to render a verdict to the US liking and self interest.The damage done to the court UN by US is immense. I would say the apointed judge just failed to get his ass in gear untill it was to late, and now is blaming the sheriff for taking matters in to his own hands. One of the biggest unsolved crises that UN had to deal with, is the Israel - Palestine issues and US have through repeated vetoes sabotaged it. I'm still looking into this, but, it does not seem that it was US veto's alone, but, other factors as well. For many years now, US have also sabotaged UN by withholding its agreed member fees. And the UN is costing the US ( expecialy NY ) a lot of money, due to ambassadors and/or staff of member nations failing to uphold the laws of the land, and abusing their UN status. Greg H. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Lots of Guns - No Butter!
actually that would be Brady . Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 9:00 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Lots of Guns - No Butter! Ron was the vegetable. -Original Message- From: Steve Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 6:36 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Lots of Guns - No Butter! Our school food programs went downhill when Reagan replaced vegetable with ketchup. Nobody told him a tomato was a fruit ... Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 12:08 AM Subject: [biofuel] Lots of Guns - No Butter! Lots of Guns - No Butter! Draconian Cuts in School Lunch, Food Stamp and Farm Bill Programs to be decided this Week by the US House of Representatives Call your representatives this week if you care about nutrition and farm program gains from the last Congress. Urge them to protect our society's most vulnerable at this time of national crisis. Tell your representative not to allow proposed cuts in Child Nutrition, Food Stamp and those Farm Bill programs vital to the health of low income children, their families, the environment and family farmers. Call tomorrow. Call the US Capitol Switchboard to get your representative's phone number: 202-224-3121 Ask for the staff responsible for child nutrition programs and/or agriculture. Leave a message if you get voice mail. For more information on the pending cuts, see the March 17 press release from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities at http://www.cbpp.org/3-12-03bud2-pr.pdf Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.461 / Virus Database: 260 - Release Date: 3/10/2003 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Lots of Guns - No Butter!
Couldn't be, he is no guns, and the topic is lot's of guns. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 09:29 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Lots of Guns - No Butter! actually that would be Brady . Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS .....
I think one might come across the old question.. you are on an island that is going to blow up or whatever crisis and there are 100 people. you have two paths.. one which will have a 50% chance of saving everyone.. but an equal chance that all will die. ..vs another path that 10% will certainly die.. but the rest will live. which choice would one make? Certainly some people can not make the first choice.. Nothing wrong with being able to make the choice. Chose one.. and all may die.. you are responsible. But then.. they might all make it. So do you make the choice to save the 40% by chosing the second path? You are responsible for the 10% dead.. you could have chosen the first option, and they might have lived. You would carry that baggage forever. Can everyone make that decision? Certainly not. Nothing wrong with that either. Then.. to make it even worse.. what if you had to choose which 10% had to die so the others could make it. Not something that makes for a good nights rest. That might trouble you the rest of your life. I think that Unicef is stating that 60,000 youngstersunder 5? die every year there needlessly? At what point do you say that the ones you save outweigh those that will surely die.? Some people would say never. Never an innocent. Some would be a small number, 10-15%.. 6-10,000 civilians. Caclulating person. Some would be 50%. Matter of fact, 'you are over the hump' And some would kill everyone take their wallets and get to the rescue boat, tell the crew the rest of them are over the hill and need help.. and after the crew leaves to help.. leave in the boat. ok.. I just added the last one.. but I dont see anything wrong with anyones point of view for the other three. Choosing one does not make your a sissy, nor a warmonger. Some people can say how can you make a decision that would kill 15,000 and others look at it as making a decision that saves 45,000. Maybe that can help them sleep at night, maybe not. Not everyone can make the choice that might cost another a life. assume you are already on the island and please no one just argue with me about how you got on the island, or that it is X person's fault we are on the island :) Message: 11 Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 22:38:52 +0100 From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost! Dear Vern, I can not imagine anything worse happening to me than if I unintentionally or intentionally would cause the death of a human being. I met many people who has been in that situation and still have to meet one who has not been scarred for life of that experience. This has been people involved in accidents as well as people who participated in wars. I am not talking about decision makers nor am I talking mentally disturbed people. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Lots of Guns - No Butter!
she is no guns. he is the one who took a bullet for Reagan and became a vegetable. It was a bad joke, and I apologize for it. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Lots of Guns - No Butter! Couldn't be, he is no guns, and the topic is lot's of guns. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 09:29 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Lots of Guns - No Butter! actually that would be Brady . Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Only two choices?? Why?? Was: IS BUSH NUTS? by William Thomas
That might be Libertarian. I find myself leaning that way on occasion, but alas, no representation. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 9:59 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Only two choices?? Why?? Was: IS BUSH NUTS? by William Thomas --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is it that the only two choices I seem to be given in life are either to be a Government Slave (Democrat) or a Corporate Slave (Republican). What if I want neither?? Like maybe to be Free ... for instance?? Curtis Curtis, Very well put, Sir! Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Hemp is not the myth that others would tend to propagate.
Hemp was banned because Harry Anslinger wanted job security after his earlier job of Prohibition leader ended. Harry and Hearst (with his vast yellow journalism newspaper chain) succeeded in lying to the American people about crazy marijuana youth and particularly using racist portrayals of mexican and black males posing life and rape risk to white american women. That alone made it difficult to oppose Anslinger. Since the AMA and the hemp farmers didn't strongly fight against the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937, it passed. So it wasn't even a BAN against growing or possessing it, at first. It was instead regulated by registration and permitting via tax stamp, which allowed the government to control and even fail to issuethese days there are only a handful of legal, permitted federal users of marijuana (under 10) and only one or 2 legal federally-approved plantations as I understand. Their strategy is classic: Few will oppose taxation and registration. After getting that established, they later deny the ability to obtain the legal registration and license. The same strategy can be applied for biofuel production and use. In Oregon, the Department of Transportation licenses either DEALERS or USERS of biofuels for motor vehicle use. If one persues a DEALER approach to allow one to pay taxes at the supply end, you must be APPROVED by the ODOT---which could be denied, making any subsequent production of biofuel by you illegal. If instead, a biofuel producer decides to NOT apply at all for a DEALER license, there's only one way to avoid hassle: NEVER sell fuel directly to a customer pumping it directly into an automobile fuel tank. If the biofuel is produced and sold in portable or bulk containers, the Oregon DOT doesn't regulate or license or tax you as a producer Thus, from a regulatory and tax perspective, the burden is passed to the consumer/USER. If the consumer uses the biofuel for road use, he must be REGISTERED with the state as a USER by applying for and obtaining a USER license. Once registered as a USER, the motor vehicle biofuel consumer can then pay fuel taxes---monthly, or even only annually if monthly usage is low or vehicle weight below some high level (8000#?). Again, prohibition always seems to start with taxation since it's easy to get passed. Taxation and regulation of biofuel production/consumption could see a similar prohibitionist route as the evil weed if the petro-interests find their bottom line getting threatened. Hemp prohibition may indeed be the model. -MT -Original Message- From: Steve Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 5:32 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hemp is not the myth that others would tend to propagate. The religious right had nothing to do with hemp banning, it was competing business. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Alan S. Petrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 2:38 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hemp is not the myth that others would tend to propagate. Myles Twete wrote: Maybe some day they'll ban nettles, hops and flax because they're just too closely related to evil weeds. Don't give them any ideas. The Religious Right is always looking for new things to prohibit. AP -- Aviation is more than a hobby. It is more than a job. It is more than a career. Aviation is a way of life. A second language for the world: www.esperanto.net Processor cycles are a terrible thing to waste: www.distributed.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost!
Hi Greg H, At 08:53 AM 3/19/2003 -0700, you wrote: Dear Vern, We have a very important issue here and that is the court of law that you talk about. Any court of law acts as an arbitrator, within its given powers and respect for them by the parties. The honorable judge Lynch would have been proud of his nation, if he would have been alive to see what is going on. We have US that acts like the prosecution and the judge, because the appointed judge was not willing to render a verdict to the US liking and self interest.The damage done to the court UN by US is immense. I would say the apointed judge just failed to get his ass in gear untill it was to late, and now is blaming the sheriff for taking matters in to his own hands. I assume that you are a great admirer of judge Lynch. In more civilized societies, we do not allow the police to take the justice in their own hands. We must have some different opinions on human rights, burden of proof and the right to a fair trial. What you are describing is a typical police state. Things must have changed in the US, since last time I was there. I am sorry if my impressions are not up to date. One of the biggest unsolved crises that UN had to deal with, is the Israel - Palestine issues and US have through repeated vetoes sabotaged it. I'm still looking into this, but, it does not seem that it was US veto's alone, but, other factors as well. I think that you will find around 16 vetoes, if I remember right. A veto is not necessary if it is other factors, but please go on looking. It is a sad reading and all of them are in favor of Israel, none in favor of the other party. This is the country that claims that they can make a fair road map to piece -:)) and deserves the respect for fairness. For many years now, US have also sabotaged UN by withholding its agreed member fees. And the UN is costing the US ( expecialy NY ) a lot of money, due to ambassadors and/or staff of member nations failing to uphold the laws of the land, and abusing their UN status. I think that we have an other culture crash here. Where I come from, we pay what we owe and in time. Apart of that, I think that NY do make a net benefit in several ways. I for one, would not mind if UN moved to a central European city or somewhere else than NY and US, it would be more appropriate. -:) Why should it be in a country where the police take the law in their own hands and where payments are not done in time? Hakan Greg H. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Hemp is not the myth that others would tend to propagate.
Hi Myles, After a discussion with Todd about hemp, I became wiser and do normally stay away from this hemp subject. I am surprised that Anslinger did those statements, but understand it better after listening to Bush and the reasons for war against Iraq. The fact is that marijuana is pacifying and lower the sexual instinct, contrary to other central stimulant drugs like alcohol and amphetamines. So finally the hemp group got me to react -:)), I will continue to resist after this. Hakan At 09:33 AM 3/19/2003 -0800, you wrote: Hemp was banned because Harry Anslinger wanted job security after his earlier job of Prohibition leader ended. Harry and Hearst (with his vast yellow journalism newspaper chain) succeeded in lying to the American people about crazy marijuana youth and particularly using racist portrayals of mexican and black males posing life and rape risk to white american women. That alone made it difficult to oppose Anslinger. Since the AMA and the hemp farmers didn't strongly fight against the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937, it passed. So it wasn't even a BAN against growing or possessing it, at first. It was instead regulated by registration and permitting via tax stamp, which allowed the government to control and even fail to issuethese days there are only a handful of legal, permitted federal users of marijuana (under 10) and only one or 2 legal federally-approved plantations as I understand. Their strategy is classic: Few will oppose taxation and registration. After getting that established, they later deny the ability to obtain the legal registration and license. The same strategy can be applied for biofuel production and use. In Oregon, the Department of Transportation licenses either DEALERS or USERS of biofuels for motor vehicle use. If one persues a DEALER approach to allow one to pay taxes at the supply end, you must be APPROVED by the ODOT---which could be denied, making any subsequent production of biofuel by you illegal. If instead, a biofuel producer decides to NOT apply at all for a DEALER license, there's only one way to avoid hassle: NEVER sell fuel directly to a customer pumping it directly into an automobile fuel tank. If the biofuel is produced and sold in portable or bulk containers, the Oregon DOT doesn't regulate or license or tax you as a producer Thus, from a regulatory and tax perspective, the burden is passed to the consumer/USER. If the consumer uses the biofuel for road use, he must be REGISTERED with the state as a USER by applying for and obtaining a USER license. Once registered as a USER, the motor vehicle biofuel consumer can then pay fuel taxes---monthly, or even only annually if monthly usage is low or vehicle weight below some high level (8000#?). Again, prohibition always seems to start with taxation since it's easy to get passed. Taxation and regulation of biofuel production/consumption could see a similar prohibitionist route as the evil weed if the petro-interests find their bottom line getting threatened. Hemp prohibition may indeed be the model. -MT -Original Message- From: Steve Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 5:32 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hemp is not the myth that others would tend to propagate. The religious right had nothing to do with hemp banning, it was competing business. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Alan S. Petrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 2:38 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hemp is not the myth that others would tend to propagate. Myles Twete wrote: Maybe some day they'll ban nettles, hops and flax because they're just too closely related to evil weeds. Don't give them any ideas. The Religious Right is always looking for new things to prohibit. AP -- Aviation is more than a hobby. It is more than a job. It is more than a career. Aviation is a way of life. A second language for the world: www.esperanto.net Processor cycles are a terrible thing to waste: www.distributed.net Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fwd: Bio Vehicles
Please reply to him direct, cc the list - he's not a member. Keith From: Ryan N. Doyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Bio Vehicles Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 12:25:51 -0500 Good Day! I'm coordinator for the 3rd Annual Southern Energy Environment Expo, which has drawn nearly 4,000 people each year for the last two years. (More info on event at http://www.seeexpo.com/www.seeexpo.com ). Unfortunately, while we've had hybrids and some electric vehicles, so far no luck with working bio-diesel or ethanol. Any leads, contacts or clues to find a way to display these types would be appreciated. Thank You! Peace, Ned Ryan Doyle Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] are you ready for peace?
I have been reading the ongoing threads about the 'war' for months. What really troubles me, is that I rarely meet anyone who could actually live in peace with a neighbor that has a different religion and lifestyle. Most countries have laws on the books that are in violation of someone's religion. The vocal minority/majority seem to want to try to legislate morality, at some level. How many people actually have the tolerance to allow another to live their life as they see fit? I have heard the arguments for the war that say we should free the Muslim women of their servitude. Who are we to decide that they need freeing? If they believe that their religion is correct for them, then who are the rest of the people to have an opinion? I have followed the charges against the Lutheran minister who prayed in public with leaders of other religions, after Sept. 11, including Pagans, and the reprimands he is getting from his own church. This are just a couple of examples of the kind of thing I am talking about. I am not sure that I have voiced what I am getting at, in a concise manner, but I wonder how many people on this list would be comfortable with someone of a totally different spirituality moving in next door and making friends with their children? While I am well aware of the power of money to promote war, I wonder how much of it is also driven by differences in spirituality? Bright Blessings, Kim Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Will the War Begin With a Big Lie?
FAIR-L Fairness Accuracy In Reporting Media analysis, critiques and activism MEDIA ADVISORY: Will the War Begin With a Big Lie? Iraq will be invaded or occupied regardless of ultimatum, report says March 19, 2003 George W. Bush's March 17 speech has been boiled down to one blunt statement: Saddam Hussein and his sons must leave Iraq within 48 hours. Their refusal to do so will result in military conflict, commenced at a time of our choosing. Headlines the next morning focused on this message: President Tells Hussein to Leave Iraq Within 48 Hours or Face Invasion (Washington Post); Bush Gives Ultimatum to Hussein: Leave in 48 Hours or Face War (Ft. Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel); President Gives the Iraqi Dictator One Last Deadline (San Antonio Express-News). One story, however, at the bottom of an inside page in the New York Times, had a different message: Allies Will Move In, Even if Saddam Hussein Moves Out was the headline over a page A16 story by Times military correspondent Michael Gordon. Even if Saddam Hussein leaves Iraq within 48 hours, as President Bush demanded, allied forces plan to move north into Iraqi territory, American officials said today, the article began. Gordon pointed to a little-noted line in Bush's speech: It is not too late for the Iraqi military to act with honor and protect your country by permitting the peaceful entry of coalition forces to eliminate weapons of mass destruction. While in the context of the speech, this seemed to refer to what Bush hoped Iraqi commanders would do in the event that his ultimatum was rejected, Gordon reports that this was actually a signal that regardless of what Hussein chooses, the U.S. would still, in Gordon's words, enter Iraq to search for hidden weapons of mass destruction and help stabilize the nation so that a new and more democratic regime could take over. Even if the Iraqi military were to overthrow Hussein, Gordon wrote, a military intervention seems very likely. He quoted Colin Powell's statement on March 17 to the effect that the only way for Iraq to avoid an attack is for Mr. Hussein to leave the country and 'allow this matter to be resolved through the peaceful entry of force.' In other words, there is nothing that Iraq can do to avoid invasion and occupation; its only choice is whether or not to surrender. Why dress up this straightforward policy with a claim that Saddam Hussein's refusal to step down within a 48-hour deadline will result in military conflict? Presumably because the White House knew that the media would find the drama of the ultimatum irresistible, and would therefore frame the upcoming war not as a choice that Washington was making, but as a final test for Saddam Hussein. Media have by and large failed to challenge this spin campaign, and continue to frame the story as a defiant Saddam Hussein spurning the last chance for peace. Saddam Sneers Back: Hell No, I Won't Go was the New York Daily News' front-page headline on March 19. The cable news channel MSNBC actually had a DEADLINE clock in the lower-right hand corner of its screen at all times, ticking away the seconds until the meaningless deadline passes. Even the Times itself did not seem to have grasped its own correspondent's report: War Imminent as Hussein Rejects Ultimatum was the paper's lead headline (3/19/03), with an accompanying story beginning, The White House said today that Saddam Hussein was making his 'final mistake' by rejecting an ultimatum ordering him to leave Iraq or face war. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS
John E Hayes III wrote: Didn't the Brits do it first in response to IRA bombings? I thought that was how Gerry Conlon's confession was coerced. I didn't say Canada was first, just that this not anything new, most places have this sort of laws. Bright Blessings, Kim Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost!
Hi Steve Hi Keith. Either it was just a counter opinion, with no evidence, or it was a statement that Vern himself supports the war, which would be evidence, and it seems that's how both you and I took it. So he'd then be right in that the group's anti-war stance is not total. But, in my opinion, as stated, and that of the large majority of the group, Vern's support for the war is wrong, and can only be based on ignoring a great deal of information, much of which has been posted here. Your opinion is that Vern's support for the war is wrong. That's right, that's what I told him, and John. His opinion is that support is not wrong. That's right too. It's also his opinion that a great deal of information posted on this group, from which anti war supporters base their opinion, is incorrect, fabricated, or inconclusive, and therefore should be ignored. That may be his opinion, though he hasn't said so. It's my opinion that the vast majority of the war party ignores the information before reading it - they read enough to label it as opposing their views, then they dismiss it without reading any further. It's rather widespread: I've posted this as an example a couple of times - did you read it, for instance? Did Vern? Conservative Media Don't Want To Hear From The 'Other Guy' http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/7355 Anyway, the evidence for it here comes up again and again - war party supporters keep pushing arguments that have been dealt with thoroughly, and it's obvious they ignored that. That is the way of the ostrich. You have stated that it's ok on this group to have different opinions. Indeed it is - of course it is! Good grief! It appears you are telling him his opinion is wrong. Yes, yes. This is not fact based information like how many grams of lye to add to methanol. All of this is based on shaky data and even shakier conclusions (both sides, pro and anti). That's not so - well-referenced, well-reasoned, factual and coherent information has been provided on the one side, and very little on the other apart from opinions and denial. Even the news pieces simply avoid huge areas as if they simply don't exist. The anti- side has avoided nothing. Yes, that's my opinion of course - but if you wanted to argue with me about it you'd have a hard time countering all the evidence I'd provide to support it. But such an argument would be tiresome for everyone. So if it's correct to have differing opinions, is it correct to dismiss someone's opinion when it differs from yours? I didn't dismiss it, I said he was wrong. I didn't tell him to stop stating his views, nor give him some kind of ultimatum to change them or leave. Are you trying to say that welcoming divergent opinion here means that I have to agree with it all? How would I do that? - an impossibility. If I don't agree that it's right, I'll say so (or maybe not - usually not, in fact). Everyone here can and does do that, but you object to my doing it? Why? What exactly are you trying to say? If anyone wants support for my views, they'll get it. I can seldom say the same about them - and I really wish that wasn't so. But it is. Best Keith Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 11:11 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost! Ummm. I fail to see how Vern's remark merits this response. Andrew postulated that 100% of the group is against the war. Vern presented a datapoint that invalidates Andrew's assertion. Vern may be right or wrong in his support of this war, but in this post all he did was provide evidence that invalidated Andrew's overgeneralization. No more and no less. John Hello John all he did was provide evidence that invalidated Andrew's overgeneralization. No more and no less. Either it was just a counter opinion, with no evidence, or it was a statement that Vern himself supports the war, which would be evidence, and it seems that's how both you and I took it. So he'd then be right in that the group's anti-war stance is not total. But, in my opinion, as stated, and that of the large majority of the group, Vern's support for the war is wrong, and can only be based on ignoring a great deal of information, much of which has been posted here. Best Keith Addison Keith Addison wrote: Vern_Hendershott wrote: You would be wrong. And so would you be Vern, as you have been all along. You've been closing your eyesto a lot of things, eh? Keith i would bet to say our group is 100% anti war (or so i hope) - Original Message - From: John Hayes To:
Re: Not getting emails - was RE: [biofuel] Re: Credibility Bomb
I went to the groups section and tried to e-mail the messages, that I had not received, to my self ( using yahoos little box to e-mail a massage to others ), and that didn't even come through. I update Norton's AV twice a week and scanning my system once a week, more if I hear of a new bug making the rounds, so I doubt that it's my system. Sounds like a bounce, but you're not bounced, I checked. Then again it could have been the carnivore, because I did mention a few things that is not to be talked about , and I always seem to have a few problems with e-mail, after talking about them even little as I did that one post. Sorry, you lost me - what does this mean? Which post? Best Keith Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 19:55 Subject: Not getting emails - was RE: [biofuel] Re: Credibility Bomb Hi Greg and Harley I don't know what could be wrong, nothing that I can see - both your accounts are okay, should be working fine. Could be Yahoo problems, and could also be virus action blocking up the networks, or possibly your computers - have you checked? Let me know if you think there's anything I can do to help. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost!
- Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 10:52 Subject: Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost! I would say the apointed judge just failed to get his ass in gear untill it was to late, and now is blaming the sheriff for taking matters in to his own hands. I assume that you are a great admirer of judge Lynch. In more civilized societies, we do not allow the police to take the justice in their own hands. You have police that don't shoot at armed felons and terrorist? Not even in self defence? What about in defence of the law abiding? We must have some different opinions on human rights, burden of proof and the right to a fair trial. What you are describing is a typical police state. No what I'm describing is a system that breaks down, and leaves the victim out in the cold, all in the name of fairness ( for the criminal ). After a while, the victims get tired of being victims, and take matters into their own hands, just out of a sense of survival. Things must have changed in the US, since last time I was there. I am sorry if my impressions are not up to date. I don't know when the last time you was here, but, even in the last 2 years, allot has changed. America is allot more paranoid and fearful, and one goes with the other. In the last 30 years certain members of congress in order to remain in power have made people more reliant on the government for their everyday needs ( you already know that part ), and you probably already know that job specialization, has also contributed to this. What you may not know and allot of Americans don't either and are just finding out is that the US Supreme Court has ruled that police have no legal responsibility to protect citizens of the US. So out of fear, people are starting to take matters into their own hands, and this translates to an extent to foreign policy. One of the biggest unsolved crises that UN had to deal with, is the Israel - Palestine issues and US have through repeated vetoes sabotaged it. I'm still looking into this, but, it does not seem that it was US veto's alone, but, other factors as well. I think that you will find around 16 vetoes, if I remember right. A veto is not necessary if it is other factors, but please go on looking. It is a sad reading and all of them are in favor of Israel, none in favor of the other party. This is the country that claims that they can make a fair road map to piece -:)) and deserves the respect for fairness. 16 vetoes out of how many resolutions ? I lost track around the 65th. When have the Palestinians tried peace? I know that Israel tried a number of times only to have a Palestinian suicide bomber kills several Israelis. For many years now, US have also sabotaged UN by withholding its agreed member fees. And the UN is costing the US ( expecialy NY ) a lot of money, due to ambassadors and/or staff of member nations failing to uphold the laws of the land, and abusing their UN status. I think that we have an other culture crash here. Not really. Do you go to another country expecting to break the laws and get off without penalty? Where I come from, we pay what we owe and in time. And this is the bases to which much of the problem has occurred. Members of UN staff get tickets for illegally parking and other unlawful acts, vehicles get towed, and other things like this, and they don't pay the fines and use diplomatic status to get the vehical out of impoundment for free or otherwise get out of repeated trouble. I have heard some estimates for the cost to be as high as 5 million a year to NY, to enforce laws ( and this is not taking into account of money lost due to the illegal action ), that they are not being compensated for. This alone was an issue to why the US was with holding funds. Apart of that, I think that NY do make a net benefit in several ways. Perhaps, but, because of the actions of some UN staffers, many of NYPD ( and other New Yorkers ), would say good buy and help them pack. Why should it be in a country where the police take the law in their own hands They are humans, that don't make human mistakes :-P ? Sorry I don't know of one place that has police that are not infallible. Even though it may not seem like it, when police exceed the law, they are still held accountable. and where payments are not done in time? Please tell that to NY, were, they lose money (because of some of the UN ) enforcing the laws, for the benefit of the UN as well as the rest of the people. Q. When will the UN start policing it's self? A. When hell freezes over, because they are to busy policing everyone else. Greg H. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM
Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 1449
I'm new to the group, so offer my opinion respectfully, recognizing that this discussion has been going on for a long time it's not my party. I'm about to unsubscribe because I don't have time to sift through all the political discussions to find some nugget about how to get started with biodiesel. After years of intention I've found a beautiful old Merc and a Merc mechanic who's also excited about bio-d. My sons are way excited about it. So now it's just a matter of picking from the many flavors of bio-d going for it. I'm here because I want to promote biodiesel as a way to take the pressure off the Middle East--to do the right thing by Mother Earth--to do my small part to carry out Dr Diesel's dream. Actually, I just want to use biodiesel in my car because sometimes when I put gas in my car I think of it as the blood of the innocent people in the oil-rich countries who are pawns in this chessgame of greed and power and cheap gas. We can opine endlessly, but the game is played in venues we can't enter for reasons we can't fathom. (If we could, we wouldn't be jawboning here.) I can engage in endless political discussions about the war in hundreds of forums on the web elsewhere. But this is one of a handful of forums where I can learn about biodiesel from people who are ahead of me on the path. Call me simple, but I believe that all the words ever spoken in this forum don't equal the power of one person switching from gas to biodiesel then influencing another person to do so. If a demand is created for bio-d, it will be available. I live in Denver had no idea Boulder was such a hotbed of bio-d innovation until I did a web search. It's one of those hair-prickling coincidences that I found the car the mechanic the weekend before the First International Biodiesel Day the week before Dr D's birthday. I'd be in Boulder if it weren't for the 24 of snow in my long driveway. What if there were 2 lists--one to discuss how to use procure biodiesel another the political implications of biodiesel? I'd stay with the former. Ted - Ted Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: VW diesel into small rear wheel drive pickup conversion
I know of a Mazda diesel motor and trans taken out of a 1984. It is for sale, as it will not easily transplant into his 1987 Mazda because of the front crossmember interfering with the oil pan. It is in Saskatchewan. What is one worth? Typically, it would have 300,000Kms, or more, mostly rural. Ed - Original Message - From: Stanley Baer To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: VW diesel into small rear wheel drive pickup conversion I live in Kitchener which is 100 Km from Toronto. If anybody in the area has a Toyota, Nissan or Mazda diesel engine that they would like to sell let me know. stan Glenn wrote: Hi Stanley, I am also from Canada. Vancouver Island, BC. Where abouts are you? I would be interested in your VW P/Us if you are geographically accessable. Maybe you could sell what you have and buy a differnet engine? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor http://rd.yahoo.com/M=245314.3072841.4397732.2848452/D=egroupweb/S=1705083269:HM/A=1495890/R=0/*http://www.netbizideas.com/yheb42%20 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [berkeleybiodiesel] [biofuel] crosspost schoolbus conversions (fwd)
Just crossposting. James Slayden -- Forwarded message -- Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 12:28:31 -0800 (PST) From: James Slayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [berkeleybiodiesel] [biofuel] crosspost schoolbus conversions (fwd) So, here is what I found out. The Certificate to haul waste grease (oil) is $100 per year for the 1st vehicle, and $75 for every vehicle there after. The certificate is annually renewable in January and you get both a certificate paper and a sticker for the vehicle. No hazzardous materials training is necessary. So, basically it's only if ya get caught oil diving where this would really be an issue. I'm sure that no one is going to stop ya and see what's in the 5 gal pails (or other container). It's more of a comfortability issue with those people who get nervous with legal issues. But, it might be good to get it to be on the safe side. James Slayden Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 1449
Ted: I can understand your frustration about the war-no-war discussions. Likewise I find myself drawn away from support of the oiley empire, and its injustices. Assuming there are retail outlets in Denver, are you going to buy bio-diesel, or brew your own? I have been looking for a diesel truck to buy, hopefully to fuel with my own manufactured bio-diesel. I have found a number of interesting home production plants on the web, over a large part of the world, and built from everything from oil drums to washing machines. I have started accumulating junk to use in building a plant. I would love to get a plan for the fuel production unit that towed behind the VeggyVan, if you, or anyone has access to it. Ed - Original Message - From: Ted Johnson To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 1:27 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 1449 I'm new to the group, so offer my opinion respectfully, recognizing that this discussion has been going on for a long time it's not my party. I'm about to unsubscribe because I don't have time to sift through all the political discussions to find some nugget about how to get started with biodiesel. After years of intention I've found a beautiful old Merc and a Merc mechanic who's also excited about bio-d. My sons are way excited about it. So now it's just a matter of picking from the many flavors of bio-d going for it. I'm here because I want to promote biodiesel as a way to take the pressure off the Middle East--to do the right thing by Mother Earth--to do my small part to carry out Dr Diesel's dream. Actually, I just want to use biodiesel in my car because sometimes when I put gas in my car I think of it as the blood of the innocent people in the oil-rich countries who are pawns in this chessgame of greed and power and cheap gas. We can opine endlessly, but the game is played in venues we can't enter for reasons we can't fathom. (If we could, we wouldn't be jawboning here.) I can engage in endless political discussions about the war in hundreds of forums on the web elsewhere. But this is one of a handful of forums where I can learn about biodiesel from people who are ahead of me on the path. Call me simple, but I believe that all the words ever spoken in this forum don't equal the power of one person switching from gas to biodiesel then influencing another person to do so. If a demand is created for bio-d, it will be available. I live in Denver had no idea Boulder was such a hotbed of bio-d innovation until I did a web search. It's one of those hair-prickling coincidences that I found the car the mechanic the weekend before the First International Biodiesel Day the week before Dr D's birthday. I'd be in Boulder if it weren't for the 24 of snow in my long driveway. What if there were 2 lists--one to discuss how to use procure biodiesel another the political implications of biodiesel? I'd stay with the former. Ted - Ted Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost!
Dear John, At 10:17 AM 3/19/2003 -0500, you wrote: Hakan Falk wrote: $25 is a target price by US, where they can maintain the American way of life. $40 for a longer period will be very difficult and close to $60 the American society will start to deteriorate. This is not my analyses, it is based on several US data, so do not get angry with me. Well, yes and no. On its face, such a statement is true as $60 a barrel would disrupt American life somewhat. However, such a malthusian reading of the situation ignores other forces and adjustments that could come into play. Texas, Pennsylvania, and Louisiana crude become economically viable once prices spike. The US R/P value for US is 10.7 years. I do not think that you can ever more relay only on your own oil reserves. I think that you have all the reasons to muster the other forces and adjustments immediately. Increased trucking costs would cause the cost of goods to rise, but it might also shift more freight back to the railroad. Increased cost at the gas pump would drive people away from SUVs and toward carpooling and smaller cars. That would be a welcome change in the American way of life, I strongly support it. It will however cost a lot of job opportunities and have substantial economical impact. Austerity is not a part of the American way of life. Likewise, I'd bet that 3 billion pounds of surplus soybean oil the USDA has laying around would get turned into SMEs pretty damn fast. Great, but you have to start now in a large scale, otherwise you will be caught with your pants down. I also bet people would figure out how to do something with all that West Virginia and Wyoming coal. Yes, hydrogen from coal is the only fossil alternative. It will take you 20 to 30 years to get to this. Bush loves this, since he probably been briefed about the seriousness of today's situation. He does not explain it to the American people, like both Carter and Nixon tried to do. Things have not got better since then, on the contrary. So anyway, distruption, yes. Deterioration, No. As I clearly said, this was is the opinions of several American experts. If they are wrong, the better for you. For many years now, US have also sabotaged UN by withholding its agreed member fees. I also want to tell you, if you do not really know, that US and UK are the industrial countries that contributes the lowest amounts per capita to UN and other help programs for the developing countries. Sweden is among the highest and I am in that sense proud of being a Swede. Yes, and the US pays 25% of the total UN budget as well as 30% of the peacekeeping budget. Nor does this include the billions of dollars the US donates in manpower and logistics to worldwide peacekeeping opperations for which other nations are routinely reimbursed. Do I think the US should pay its dues in full in a timely manner? Absolutely. But I also think it is disingenuous to ignore that the US is the largest contributor in absolute dollars. Some other facts to consider: US population as percentage of total of World Population: 4.6% US GNP as a as percentage of total of World GNP: 29% Percentage of UN dues paid by the US: 25% My point being that you can argue it either way based on population or economic wealth but it is unfair to only pick the statistic that supports your agenda. I have no specific agenda, I only respond to people who is promoting issues and have an agenda that I find dubious. I hear so much from Americans that are either ignorance of the facts or deliberate false propaganda. Some of the things I hear, Claim: US liberated Europe during WWII with it's heroic troops. Truth: The US forces was 10% of the allied forces and their casualties were around 50,000 of the allied total of 600,000 and the Soviets lost 6 million. It was the US material support that made it possible to save half of Europe from being occupied by the Soviets, not the US troops. Claim: US is altruistic and give the largest aid to developing countries. Truth: Both per capita and by percentage of GNP, US is on the bottom of the list of developed countries. Nothing to brag about, when it is the richest country in the world. If you contributed per capita or by GNP in the same relation as the Swedes, you would give 3 times more than you do. Being a rich and populated country, you are giving the largest $ value, but if you add the EU countries even this is not true. It is many things that can be said, but I do not want to go further in this. Because every time we get close to facts, realities and truth, somebody will say that I do American bashing and do not like Americans, which is not true either. It is only when the Americans try to claim some sort of nationalistic higher ground and superiority, that I try to point out that you are not better and not worse than the rest of the world population. Maybe if you realized this, your respect for others and your foreign policies would improve. I am sure that you
Re: [biofuel] the concept of this war
Hello Donald How can Harlan Ullman, while claiming to have written the book on Shock and Awe, say this? And, while a rapid, stunning victory with relatively little loss of life will surely create a favorable political condition, that may not be enough. 800 cruise missiles into Baghdad in two days? Little loss of life? Have neither you nor he read the projections? Or do you share this view, posted a couple of days ago at another list? I for one have no problem with the idea of spilling innocent Iraqi blood, as it is the price they must pay for their freedom... Here's a little more about Ullman and exactly what he's proposing (previously posted): http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=21689list=BIOFUEL Date: 2003-02-28 Subject: [biofuel] Shock and Yawn From: Keith Addison Posted on another list by a pro-war American: Normally only a major shock changes the course of history---the impact of a professionalized Roman Legion, the Revolutionary War, utter, unconditional, devastated wasteland defeat of WWII Japan and Germany. The shock of an unconditionally defeated Iraq, accompanied by minor physical damage and Iraqi fatalities is not of such magnitude. Not an ill-informed person, but how can he think that? Minor damage and fatalities - 800 cruise missiles in two days? Pentagon planner Harlan Ullman said: You have this simultaneous effect, rather like the nuclear weapons of Hiroshima, not taking days or weeks but minutes. Minor damage? Yet that's what the pro-war folks think - minor damage. Just another major disconnect in the pro-war thinking - they just can't seem to focus on what's going on. Such as the oil connection. Keith http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=14544 WorkingForChange- Geov Parrish workingforchange.com 02.24.03 Forget duct tape; we need protecting from the Bush White House, and from the record levels of new and deepening anti- American sentiment it is generating daily. Shock and Yawn Plan could kill millions in 48 hours -- why don't Americans care? Exactly a month ago Pentagon planner Harlan Ullman, in a CBS-TV interview, publicly revealed for the first time the Pentagon's Shock and Awe plan for its assault upon Iraq, should (or when) George W. Bush orders it. Ullman's information was subsequently confirmed by a number of sources; it's for real. Here is what I wrote about it in my column of January 30: http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=14425 The plan includes simultaneous ground invasions from north and south... It also includes a sudden decimation of Baghdad by raining down on its people, in two days, over 800 cruise missiles -- more than were used in the entire Gulf War. Ullman... characterized the Baghdad assault thusly: `You have this simultaneous effect, rather like the nuclear weapons of Hiroshima, not taking days or weeks but minutes.' It would be a firestorm, a Dresden or Tokyo with 60 years of new technology. It would be a war crime of quick and staggering proportions. Such a plan, of course, makes a mockery of Donald Rumsfeld's ritual insistence that the Pentagon takes enormous care to avoid civilian casualties; the plan apparently is to kill a staggering percentage of Baghdad's civilian population in the first day alone. ... The name refers to the demoralizing effect such an attack would have on Iraqis, an effect, presumably, similar to the instant (although already planned) surrender of Japan after the gratuitous bombing of Hiroshima (and even more gratuitous bombing of Nagasaki. But those were, both military and diplomatically, demonstration attacks -- suggesting what could be done to the imperial rulers themselves and to Tokyo, a city far more valuable and populous than Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined. In Iraq, Baghdad is the capitol. Now, those plans, and sentiments of horror similar to mine, have been echoing around the Internet for a month; they've been featured extensively in alternative publications that have come out during that time. Which is precisely the problem. The United States is planning to suck all the oxygen out of the air with a fireball over the heads of the five million residents of Baghdad -- so that, as another Pentagon interviewee said, nobody in Baghdad will be safe, whether above ground or below. This has been well-documented public knowledge for a month, widely reported in the rest of the world. But in America it has been roundly ignored, confined to the fringes of the media landscape and probably, by many Americans, dismissed as a result as conspiracist nonsense. This raises two questions: 1) Are Americans -- politicians, media executives, and ordinary citizens -- so numb, or oblivious, or callous to the horrors of war that we cannot raise ourselves to be bothered by what would be, if it works as planned, one of the greatest massacres, one of the greatest war crimes, in the history of the world, committed in our name and with our money? 2) Forgetting for a moment those apparently
Re: [biofuel] are you ready for peace?
Hello Kim I have been reading the ongoing threads about the 'war' for months. What really troubles me, is that I rarely meet anyone who could actually live in peace with a neighbor that has a different religion and lifestyle. Most countries have laws on the books that are in violation of someone's religion. The vocal minority/majority seem to want to try to legislate morality, at some level. How many people actually have the tolerance to allow another to live their life as they see fit? You'd think the racist South Africa of the apartheid regime would be an example of such a lack of tolerance. In fact it was a melting pot. I'm well aware that I wasn't exactly typical, but I used to spend all my time with blacks, of many different tribes. Strangely, perhaps, we seldom talked about race. They were more interested in *you* than in whatever label you wore on your forehead. Before that, in Cape Town, I spent a lot of time with Cape Coloured people, Indians, Malays. Today's new South Africa has 11 official languages (I think, I may have lost count). I've lived in a traditional Chinese farming village - as a farmer myself, not just as a cultural tourist. There were difficulties and misunderstandings, but what everyone wanted was to sort them out, which we succeeded in doing each time. Now I live in a traditional Japanese farming village, very closed society, very old traditions still at work here. We've been welcomed by these people, haven't had any problems yet. Nepal has 32 different ethnic groups (again, I may have lost count). Now they have a Marxist revolution - not surprising, really, but it's worth noting that it takes a lot to make a Nepalese cross, most obliging folk I've ever met. Different religions too, but they worship in each others' temples, celebrate each others' festivals. I think tolerance is much more common in the world than intolerance. Maybe we just don't notice it much because we all do it all the time... a bit like cooperation as opposed to selfishness and all the stuff we're supposed to be but aren't: competitive, greedy. They're all minor, what everyone does all the time on the street, in their daily lives, is cooperate. It's programmed deeply into us since ancient times, else none of our communities could ever have survived this far. Between different cultures there's a different dynamic at work - differences do tend to separate people, like follows like, and the purpose is optimal distribution over the available resources. With minor hostilities at the borders, but very few actual casualties, if any. That's the natural way, with us and with other creatures. Then along comes a colonial power or something and draws new borders in all the wrong places, divides and conquers, sets different groups to compete for diminishing resources... It's enough to give tribes a bad name (instead of giving colonialism a bad name). But culture means more than differences. People are cultured enough, all over the world, to give a stranger a welcome, and usually secure enough to be more interested than threatened by the strange and other. Then it's up to the individual. Nearly everyone has goodwill, unless you rub them up the wrong way. I have heard the arguments for the war that say we should free the Muslim women of their servitude. Who are we to decide that they need freeing? If they believe that their religion is correct for them, then who are the rest of the people to have an opinion? Who indeed? I have followed the charges against the Lutheran minister who prayed in public with leaders of other religions, after Sept. 11, including Pagans, and the reprimands he is getting from his own church. I don't know of the case, but his church is surely wrong, that is not what Christianity is about. The great trend among Christian churches today is ecumenical. This are just a couple of examples of the kind of thing I am talking about. I am not sure that I have voiced what I am getting at, in a concise manner, but I wonder how many people on this list would be comfortable with someone of a totally different spirituality moving in next door and making friends with their children? How sad if they weren't. One list member has adopted a little girl of another race, another culture, from another country, and tells how she's charmed everyone in the family, even the closet racists. While I am well aware of the power of money to promote war, I wonder how much of it is also driven by differences in spirituality? Spirituality is a complicated word, not the same as religion. Have you read this? - scroll down to Fundamentally Unsound: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=21103list=BIOFUEL Best Keith Bright Blessings, Kim Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM
Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost!
Greg H. At 12:10 PM 3/19/2003 -0700, you wrote: I would say the apointed judge just failed to get his ass in gear untill it was to late, and now is blaming the sheriff for taking matters in to his own hands. I assume that you are a great admirer of judge Lynch. In more civilized societies, we do not allow the police to take the justice in their own hands. You have police that don't shoot at armed felons and terrorist? Not even in self defence? What about in defence of the law abiding? Isn't it fantastic, our police in Europe do not go around and shoot people. It is very rare that we have gun fights and when it happens, it is very big news. We must have some different opinions on human rights, burden of proof and the right to a fair trial. What you are describing is a typical police state. No what I'm describing is a system that breaks down, and leaves the victim out in the cold, all in the name of fairness ( for the criminal ). After a while, the victims get tired of being victims, and take matters into their own hands, just out of a sense of survival. We do not have this in Europe. Things must have changed in the US, since last time I was there. I am sorry if my impressions are not up to date. I don't know when the last time you was here, but, even in the last 2 years, allot has changed. America is allot more paranoid and fearful, and one goes with the other. In the last 30 years certain members of congress in order to remain in power have made people more reliant on the government for their everyday needs ( you already know that part ), and you probably already know that job specialization, has also contributed to this. What you may not know and allot of Americans don't either and are just finding out is that the US Supreme Court has ruled that police have no legal responsibility to protect citizens of the US. So out of fear, people are starting to take matters into their own hands, and this translates to an extent to foreign policy. You have a serious problem in US, but I don't think that it is solved by killing Iraqis. One of the biggest unsolved crises that UN had to deal with, is the Israel - Palestine issues and US have through repeated vetoes sabotaged it. I'm still looking into this, but, it does not seem that it was US veto's alone, but, other factors as well. I think that you will find around 16 vetoes, if I remember right. A veto is not necessary if it is other factors, but please go on looking. It is a sad reading and all of them are in favor of Israel, none in favor of the other party. This is the country that claims that they can make a fair road map to piece -:)) and deserves the respect for fairness. 16 vetoes out of how many resolutions ? I lost track around the 65th. When have the Palestinians tried peace? I know that Israel tried a number of times only to have a Palestinian suicide bomber kills several Israelis. For UN standards it is a lot of vetoes. Suicide bomber is a very new phenomena and has nothing to do with the reasons for the vetoes. The appearances of suicide bombers could maybe be linked as a part of the effects of the vetoes. You must be quite desperate to commit suicide. It is human beings we are talking about. Why do you think they are so desperate? For many years now, US have also sabotaged UN by withholding its agreed member fees. And the UN is costing the US ( expecialy NY ) a lot of money, due to ambassadors and/or staff of member nations failing to uphold the laws of the land, and abusing their UN status. I think that we have an other culture crash here. Not really. Do you go to another country expecting to break the laws and get off without penalty? Where I come from, we pay what we owe and in time. And this is the bases to which much of the problem has occurred. Members of UN staff get tickets for illegally parking and other unlawful acts, vehicles get towed, and other things like this, and they don't pay the fines and use diplomatic status to get the vehical out of impoundment for free or otherwise get out of repeated trouble. I have heard some estimates for the cost to be as high as 5 million a year to NY, to enforce laws ( and this is not taking into account of money lost due to the illegal action ), that they are not being compensated for. This alone was an issue to why the US was with holding funds. Apart of that, I think that NY do make a net benefit in several ways. Perhaps, but, because of the actions of some UN staffers, many of NYPD ( and other New Yorkers ), would say good buy and help them pack. I belive you, it is difficult with so much diplomatic immunity. Why should it be in a country where the police take the law in their own hands They are humans, that don't make human mistakes :-P ? Sorry I don't know of one place that has police that are not infallible. Even though it may not seem like it, when police
[biofuel] FW: Energy, Facilities, Power News
Energy, Facilities, Power NewsI am forwarding this months Facilities Power news letter. I sorry I have not read it yet, but it has articles on Sterling Engines, several Green power / Renewable fuels articles. I hope this is helpful to somebody. Harley -Original Message- From: Brian Douglas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 1:05 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Energy, Facilities, Power News AEE Energy Facilities Power News-EFPN Industry Professional: As an AEE member, e-specials subscriber or industry professionals, here are the latest news headlines... VERMONT WASTEWATER TREATMENT FACILITY TO GENERATE ITS OWN HEAT AND POWER DTE ENERGY TECHNOLOGIES,TEZMAN HOLDING SIGN EXCLUSIVE DISTRIBUTION AGREEMENT Free Energy, Power, Utility Magazines Available... Vermont has selected Northern Power Systems to engineer, build and install a $245,000 on-site power system that will burn methane gas produced by wastewater processing to generate electricity and heat for the facility. The new cogeneration system will produce over 400,000 kWh of electrical output per year, equivalent to 41% of the facility's current annual demand. At the same time, the system will reduce the plant's CO2 emissions by over 500,000 pounds-the equivalent of eliminating 42 cars from the road per year. As part of its commitment to removing financing obstacles to such environmentally sound systems, Northern helped the Essex Junction facility obtain grant and rebate assistance for the project from various public and private sources (more) Holding announced today the signing of an exclusive distribution agreement. DTE Energy Technologies will provide its broad portfolio of energy|now on-site energy systems and energy|now Systems Operation Center (SOC) expertise. The energy|now product portfolio includes electric-only and cogeneration packaged systems from 75 kilowatt to over 1 megawatt, using advanced internal combustion engines, Stirling engines and miniturbines fueled by natural gas, as well as renewable fuels. The SOC is a remote monitoring and control system that ensures continuous reliability and efficiency. Tezman Holding will contribute in-depth manufacturing, distribution, and marketing expertise, coupled with a precise dedication to quality products and customer satisfaction. The agreement is for Tezman Holding's newly created subsidiary, Tez Enerji, to be a distributor of energy|now products within Turkey and the northern Cyprus Turkish Republic. (more) Free Energy, Power, Utility Magazines Available... No hidden or trial offers, and no purchase necessary. Publications are absolutely free to those who qualify. Browse through our extensive list of trade publications by industry, title, key word or geographic eligibility to find the titles that best match your skills and interests. Simply complete the application form and submit it. Sample Publications Include: Platts Energy Business Technology Is the definitive resource for time-constrained energy executives who want to sharpen their company's competitive edge Energy Markets Is the magazine of choice for busy power and gas professionalsControl Solutions Features provide how-to information that keeps engineers in the forefront of unparalleled changes in control technology and plant automation (more...) Building Developer and Town Buy Large Amounts of Green Power IEP Announces Energy Partnership with Corrections Corporation of America Just Released - SMALL-SCALE COGENERATION HANDBOOK, Second Edition A developer of properties and a town in Pennsylvania are two of the most recent purchasers of green power - - electricity produced from renewable energy sources. Their purchases demonstrate the diversity of U.S. companies and government entities that are buying green power. The Tower Companies, a commercial and residential building developer,announced last week that it will buy 24 million kilowatt-hours of green power over 18 months, meeting between 25 and 50 percent of the electricity needs for its buildings in the Washington, D.C. area (more) Corrections Corporation of America (CCA) announced today they have entered into an agreement with Innovative Energy Partners, LLC (IEP) to provide comprehensive energy management services. Through this energy partnership, IEP will manage all aspects of utility bill payment, tracking and analysis of utility data, commodity procurement and evaluation and implementation of energy infrastructure improvements for all of CCA's facilities located throughout the United States. (more) Is cogeneration right for your facility? This newly revised edition of the best selling Small Scale Cogeneration series will show you how onsite cogeneration can be used to increase your fuel efficiency, lower fuel usage, and maximize savings. As the technologies for small-scale cogeneration have advanced
Re: Not getting emails - was RE: [biofuel] Re: Credibility Bomb
On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 02:06 am, Greg and April wrote: I went to the groups section and tried to e-mail the messages, that I had not received, to my self ( using yahoos little box to e-mail a massage to others ), and that didn't even come through. I update Norton's AV twice a week and scanning my system once a week, more if I hear of a new bug making the rounds, so I doubt that it's my system. Then again it could have been the carnivore, because I did mention a few things that is not to be talked about , and I always seem to have a few problems with e-mail, after talking about them even little as I did that one post. Greg H. could it be your email settings? (on yahoo?) I have (had) this problem because the address I usually email from is work, and I am subscribed to my home address. So mail sent to the list does not arrive because it is not comming from a members email. check the following on your yahoo settings. go to your groups page. (er. if the DB is not down, like this morning) I can't recall where, but there is a section where you add additional email addresses. Do this then validate the email address. Once that is done, select email preferences (I am doing this from memory) check the emails are going to the right address. select email setting (options?) for the email address you are sending to, there is a section at the bottom with 4 slots for additional addresses. put your local address here. if that was teh problem, ithis may fix it... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] US gambles on a 'smart' war in Iraq
US gambles on a 'smart' war in Iraq The military hope precision weapons will both win the war and help prevent politically damning civilian casualties - but the technology is far from fail-safe http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns3518 Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] mass Iraqi defections forecasted
Already Iraqi soldiers are surrendering and crossing into Kuwait as defectors. Kuwait government is forecasting large scale defections. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost!
At the time of the Second World War, German technology was producing gasoline from coal. An entire factory was brought from Germany, and assembled in Missouri. It made gasoline at a cost of 5 cents a gallon. It was dismantled and the technology was hidden away. Ed B Yes, hydrogen from coal is the only fossil alternative. It will take you 20 to 30 years to get to this. Bush loves this, since he probably been briefed about the seriousness of today's situation. He does not explain it to the American people, like both Carter and Nixon tried to do. Things have not got better since then, on the contrary. - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 2:48 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost! Dear John, At 10:17 AM 3/19/2003 -0500, you wrote: Hakan Falk wrote: $25 is a target price by US, where they can maintain the American way of life. $40 for a longer period will be very difficult and close to $60 the American society will start to deteriorate. This is not my analyses, it is based on several US data, so do not get angry with me. Well, yes and no. On its face, such a statement is true as $60 a barrel would disrupt American life somewhat. However, such a malthusian reading of the situation ignores other forces and adjustments that could come into play. Texas, Pennsylvania, and Louisiana crude become economically viable once prices spike. The US R/P value for US is 10.7 years. I do not think that you can ever more relay only on your own oil reserves. I think that you have all the reasons to muster the other forces and adjustments immediately. Increased trucking costs would cause the cost of goods to rise, but it might also shift more freight back to the railroad. Increased cost at the gas pump would drive people away from SUVs and toward carpooling and smaller cars. That would be a welcome change in the American way of life, I strongly support it. It will however cost a lot of job opportunities and have substantial economical impact. Austerity is not a part of the American way of life. Likewise, I'd bet that 3 billion pounds of surplus soybean oil the USDA has laying around would get turned into SMEs pretty damn fast. Great, but you have to start now in a large scale, otherwise you will be caught with your pants down. I also bet people would figure out how to do something with all that West Virginia and Wyoming coal. Yes, hydrogen from coal is the only fossil alternative. It will take you 20 to 30 years to get to this. Bush loves this, since he probably been briefed about the seriousness of today's situation. He does not explain it to the American people, like both Carter and Nixon tried to do. Things have not got better since then, on the contrary. So anyway, distruption, yes. Deterioration, No. As I clearly said, this was is the opinions of several American experts. If they are wrong, the better for you. For many years now, US have also sabotaged UN by withholding its agreed member fees. I also want to tell you, if you do not really know, that US and UK are the industrial countries that contributes the lowest amounts per capita to UN and other help programs for the developing countries. Sweden is among the highest and I am in that sense proud of being a Swede. Yes, and the US pays 25% of the total UN budget as well as 30% of the peacekeeping budget. Nor does this include the billions of dollars the US donates in manpower and logistics to worldwide peacekeeping opperations for which other nations are routinely reimbursed. Do I think the US should pay its dues in full in a timely manner? Absolutely. But I also think it is disingenuous to ignore that the US is the largest contributor in absolute dollars. Some other facts to consider: US population as percentage of total of World Population: 4.6% US GNP as a as percentage of total of World GNP: 29% Percentage of UN dues paid by the US: 25% My point being that you can argue it either way based on population or economic wealth but it is unfair to only pick the statistic that supports your agenda. I have no specific agenda, I only respond to people who is promoting issues and have an agenda that I find dubious. I hear so much from Americans that are either ignorance of the facts or deliberate false propaganda. Some of the things I hear, Claim: US liberated Europe during WWII with it's heroic troops. Truth: The US forces was 10% of the allied forces and their casualties were around 50,000 of the allied total of 600,000 and the Soviets lost 6 million. It was the US material support that made it possible to save half of Europe from being occupied by the Soviets, not the US troops. Claim: US is altruistic and give the
Re: [biofuel] In Iraq Crisis, Networks Are Megaphones for Official Views
ok, first off, me and my big mouth should just shut the hell up some times. sorry if I got people offended. should know better by now. On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 08:00 pm, Keith Addison wrote: I have been mostly deleting all the political discussion recently... In addition to it making me ill, I just don't have anything to say. Why not? A number of reasons. I have been inundated with it, and none of it will change my mind and I doubt I'll change anyone elses. (well, perhaps that it is a little OT for biofuels, Many here disagree - partly or largely or entirely, it's about oil and power, not off-topic issues on a list dealing with alternative energy options. yeah, I guess. arguements about what is OT and if OT is correct or not rarely have good outcomes. but I don't mind. that is what the Del key is for, right?) Some at least here disagree with that too, especially me - please see: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=21700list=BIOFUEL OK, perhaps it would have been more accurate to say select all the unread post when I am done with the ones I want and set them as read... Usually in these situations I can sit back and quote teh wonderful mantra we aussies have, only in America... Implying that America is big, bloated, self-important, blinker-visioned and largely stupid [1]. Wow - I don't agree with that either, and I think I'm not at all alone there too. We've had recent discussions on the difference (a great difference!) between Americans and America - America being the government, the administration, the powers-that-be. There was some agreement in referring to the former as Americans, and to the latter as Washington. for the record, neither do I. partly this is a problem with the Media. sensationalist stories and shows like COPS, Springer and Ricki Lake poison our minds... Also I think we want to be better than the rest of the world (recently we suck at it...) so part of it is revelling in the failure of the most powerful nation in the world (don't get me wrong, you guys (politically) suck just as much as anyone, there is just a whole lot more of the US than there is of anyone else. I figure if Australia and the US were in the reverse situation, by some accident of us having a war with the UK before you lot did, we would suck at it even worse.) I have to admit part of my own prejudice shone through here... On a whole lot of levels. I can't stand biotry in religion, politics, I don't like mindless competition, and I quite like people to get along. Most of the time. It brings out the worst in me I'm afraid. apologies to all. But I can't now, because we (regardless of how much we say, well I didn't vote for him) are doing this too. Damn it! You're interested in biofuels, this concerns you. You're a citizen of Planet Earth, this concerns you. It concerns me, yes. can I do anything about it? other than protest my own countries involvement, not a lot. Our parlimentary senate passed a motion of no confidence in the current govt. and the PM about a month ago. First time this has ever happened. Passed by with narry a blip on the media radar. worst thing is, I bet I know what is going to happen next. Invasion happens, 2-4 weeks bombing, troops go in, 1 - 2 weeks. then a month or two of minor cleaning up. maybe this time next year or 18 month, US mostly withdrawn, no more media interest. meanwhile, back in the states, OZ, UK. election time. No one remembers the war anymore or the fact that Iraq is a DU wastland, factional fighting, corruption no leadership, humanitarian disaster of a terrorist training ground... same peopel who did not complete the job will get re-elected. victory and vindication all round. pats on the back. meanwhile, thousands will have died, millions more will be dieing, a new generation of anti western sentiment will have been created and the new cold war will continue. The US (washington, if you like) is blaming the UN for being weak (for standing up to the bully). I think the UN is weak, but mostly for not solving the problem before it got to this point. same applies double to the US. does the US still owe 10 trillion or so to the UN? how many different ways could that kind of money be spent of developmental aid in countries whose govt.s we don't like so that terrorism never got a foothold? heck, lets be totally ruthless and illegal and fund gorrilla movements to overthrow despots! I bet you you would get change out of a trillion! (John Pillger pointed out that the cost of bribing every millitia leader in Afganistan would have cost about the same as one patriot missile) the only conclusion I can reach is that nothing in this war on terror and all the associated baggage has anything to do with wiping out terrorism or anything like that and is all down to vested interests and ego. and you can't argue with someone who holds views like that. Did you read this message? - or
Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost!
On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 01:00 am, Hakan Falk wrote: $25 is a target price by US, where they can maintain the American way of life. $40 for a longer period will be very difficult and close to $60 the American society will start to deteriorate. This is not my analyses, it is based on several US data, so do not get angry with me. This also means that Iraqi suggestions of oil blockade, was an immediate threat to the US national security and probably the reason for the war. It is however not yet a recognized crime to refuse to deliver national treasures to the US, but in future it might be. didn't the US some time ago classify threats to Industrial assets as well as military and strategic assets (or what ever) as part of the definition for spying etc. activity? clear and present danger and all that... (can't recall source, but something to do with Escelon) ofcourse, I may be wrong... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] mass Iraqi defections forecasted
On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 10:20 am, Steve Spence wrote: Already Iraqi soldiers are surrendering and crossing into Kuwait as defectors. Kuwait government is forecasting large scale defections. really? I hope it is true. just heard a disturbing discussion this morning about informational warfare. speading rumours such as mass defections, leaders shot, suicided, etc. heres to a short bloodless war. I doubt it'll happen but still. Here is a question. what should happen after? I have no bloody idea. I think I know what _will_ happen, it'll be a bloody mess. anyone see any light at the end of this? (note: seems I have given up on keeping out of this.) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] are you ready for peace?
Thanks for responding with encouraging words, Keith. I am an old hippie, and have always believed in peace, love and brotherhood. When we moved to the deep south, in Texas, some people called us 'N' lovers, if you know what I mean. I just smiled and told them we are all God's children. It seems like the tolerance and welcome of differing peoples has really faded in North America. Maybe it is just that the hatred of something different is louder than it used to be, but no more people are involved than in the old days. I hope. Bright Blessings, Kim Keith Addison wrote: Hello Kim I have been reading the ongoing threads about the 'war' for months. What really troubles me, is that I rarely meet anyone who could actually live in peace with a neighbor that has a different religion and lifestyle. Most countries have laws on the books that are in violation of someone's religion. The vocal minority/majority seem to want to try to legislate morality, at some level. How many people actually have the tolerance to allow another to live their life as they see fit? You'd think the racist South Africa of the apartheid regime would be an example of such a lack of tolerance. In fact it was a melting pot. I'm well aware that I wasn't exactly typical, but I used to spend all my time with blacks, of many different tribes. Strangely, perhaps, we seldom talked about race. They were more interested in *you* than in whatever label you wore on your forehead. Before that, in Cape Town, I spent a lot of time with Cape Coloured people, Indians, Malays. Today's new South Africa has 11 official languages (I think, I may have lost count). I've lived in a traditional Chinese farming village - as a farmer myself, not just as a cultural tourist. There were difficulties and misunderstandings, but what everyone wanted was to sort them out, which we succeeded in doing each time. Now I live in a traditional Japanese farming village, very closed society, very old traditions still at work here. We've been welcomed by these people, haven't had any problems yet. Nepal has 32 different ethnic groups (again, I may have lost count). Now they have a Marxist revolution - not surprising, really, but it's worth noting that it takes a lot to make a Nepalese cross, most obliging folk I've ever met. Different religions too, but they worship in each others' temples, celebrate each others' festivals. I think tolerance is much more common in the world than intolerance. Maybe we just don't notice it much because we all do it all the time... a bit like cooperation as opposed to selfishness and all the stuff we're supposed to be but aren't: competitive, greedy. They're all minor, what everyone does all the time on the street, in their daily lives, is cooperate. It's programmed deeply into us since ancient times, else none of our communities could ever have survived this far. Between different cultures there's a different dynamic at work - differences do tend to separate people, like follows like, and the purpose is optimal distribution over the available resources. With minor hostilities at the borders, but very few actual casualties, if any. That's the natural way, with us and with other creatures. Then along comes a colonial power or something and draws new borders in all the wrong places, divides and conquers, sets different groups to compete for diminishing resources... It's enough to give tribes a bad name (instead of giving colonialism a bad name). But culture means more than differences. People are cultured enough, all over the world, to give a stranger a welcome, and usually secure enough to be more interested than threatened by the strange and other. Then it's up to the individual. Nearly everyone has goodwill, unless you rub them up the wrong way. I have heard the arguments for the war that say we should free the Muslim women of their servitude. Who are we to decide that they need freeing? If they believe that their religion is correct for them, then who are the rest of the people to have an opinion? Who indeed? I have followed the charges against the Lutheran minister who prayed in public with leaders of other religions, after Sept. 11, including Pagans, and the reprimands he is getting from his own church. I don't know of the case, but his church is surely wrong, that is not what Christianity is about. The great trend among Christian churches today is ecumenical. This are just a couple of examples of the kind of thing I am talking about. I am not sure that I have voiced what I am getting at, in a concise manner, but I wonder how many people on this list would be comfortable with someone of a totally different spirituality moving in next door and making friends with their children? How sad if they weren't. One list member has adopted a little girl of another race, another culture,
Re: [biofuel] the concept of this war
Aloe,Keith: I was in shock and awe that you passed my Ullman post without comment, given the prevailing tone of the posts of the past several months. Now that you have commented, I'll reply. 800 cruise missiles into Baghdad in two days? Little loss of life? Have neither you nor he read the projections? 1) This may have been part of the psychological hype (psy-ops) in the run-up of the last few weeks, to convince Saddam to not fight, but flee. 2) This is not WW II with German v-2's indiscriminately raining down on civilian England. Our military is fond of touting the precision of it's hardware. Maybe 800 on the Palaces and Ministry of Information, but not indiscriminately on the city. How can Harlan Ullman, while claiming to have written the book on Shock and Awe, say this? And, while a rapid, stunning victory with relatively little loss of life will surely create a favorable political condition, that may not be enough. He can say it because of the following paragraph (which you did not include). It is the peace that will dictate who ultimately won the war. In that regard, the Bush administration would be well-advised to concentrate its future intellectual and practical efforts. He's asking the Bush Administration to make the peace as successful as the war. Keith, now that we've cracked the opposition ice, can I submit a George Will piece? :} Don Strong Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] are you ready for peace?
On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 11:30 am, Kim Garth Travis wrote: Thanks for responding with encouraging words, Keith. I am an old hippie, and have always believed in peace, love and brotherhood. When we moved to the deep south, in Texas, some people called us 'N' lovers, if you know what I mean. I just smiled and told them we are all God's children. It seems like the tolerance and welcome of differing peoples has really faded in North America. Maybe it is just that the hatred of something different is louder than it used to be, but no more people are involved than in the old days. I hope. Bright Blessings, Kim has anyone here seen Bowling for Columbine? (I know - really OT now...) IMHO, it is worth it. Mike Moore can be a little preachy at times, but in this case it works kinda well. Really opened my eyes. -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] are you ready for peace?
Am very much enjoying reading your comments, Kim and Keith. Peace, Ed On Wednesday, March 19, 2003, at 04:30 PM, Kim Garth Travis wrote: Thanks for responding with encouraging words, Keith. I am an old hippie, and have always believed in peace, love and brotherhood. When we moved to the deep south, in Texas, some people called us 'N' lovers, if you know what I mean. I just smiled and told them we are all God's children. It seems like the tolerance and welcome of differing peoples has really faded in North America. Maybe it is just that the hatred of something different is louder than it used to be, but no more people are involved than in the old days. I hope. Bright Blessings, Kim Keith Addison wrote: Hello Kim I have been reading the ongoing threads about the 'war' for months. What really troubles me, is that I rarely meet anyone who could actually live in peace with a neighbor that has a different religion and lifestyle. Most countries have laws on the books that are in violation of someone's religion. The vocal minority/majority seem to want to try to legislate morality, at some level. How many people actually have the tolerance to allow another to live their life as they see fit? You'd think the racist South Africa of the apartheid regime would be an example of such a lack of tolerance. In fact it was a melting pot. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Hemp is not the myth that others would tend to propagate.
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Alan S. Petrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Myles Twete wrote: Maybe some day they'll ban nettles, hops and flax because they're just too closely related to evil weeds. Don't give them any ideas. The Religious Right is always looking for new things to prohibit. AP -- Acshually dude, The religious Right never made an statement about it. Tis the liberal LEO's law enforcement officers and prosecuting attorneys. Tis wasn't the farmers, eh!! The law can't allow hemp as they thought it would affect their drug sniffing dogs. They just never trained 'em If they got 50% of the 20% that smoked dope to switch to dope-light, thc free replacement, ala O'Dools etc. It would be an economic inducing PR campaign, too, no? Why no roll your own campaign? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] more reasons for biofuels
methinks they will fail gasoline in hawaii over $2.20 Pennsylvania is $1.70 for regular. Opec prepared for oil shortage Web posted at: 3/20/2003 1:33:20 Source ::: THE PENINSULA DOHA: The Energy and Industry Minister, HE Abdullah bin Hamad Al Attiyah, who is also chairman of Opec, said yesterday the organisation will make every effort to offset possible shortages in oil supplies in the international market in the event of a war taking place in the region. Al Sharq said the Minister received a phone call from the chairman of International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) yesterday enquiring the oil supply situation worldwide in the event of a war. The Minister told the IAEA chief that Opec will make all efforts to make up for any shortages that may occur due to a war and also help keep prices in the international oil markets stable, said Al Sharq. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Defeat for Bush energy plan as Senate blocks oil drilling in Arctic refuge
Defeat for Bush energy plan as Senate blocks oil drilling in Arctic refuge By Rupert Cornwell in Washington 20 March 2003 The Senate, controlled by Republicans, dealt President Bush a huge blow last night when it rejected oil drilling in Alaska's arctic wildlife refuge. The vote probably kills the proposal for good. The measure had been defeated previously, when the Democrats had a majority. But this rebuff, which came despite intense lobbying by the White House, was particularly stinging for the administration, which had argued it was essential on national energy security grounds, at a moment of impending war with Iraq. Eight moderate Republicans broke ranks to back a Democratic amendment to a budget resolution expected to be approved later this week, outlawing drilling in the refuge. Although four Democrats opposed the amendment, it passed by 52 to 48. Development of the estimated 15 billion barrels of oil beneath the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in north-eastern Alaska has been a big part of Mr Bush's energy plan. Environmentalists, however, have argued that drilling would disturb polar bears, interfere with caribou breeding grounds and endanger migratory birds. The refuge covers 19 million acres (7.7 million hectares) in north-eastern Alaska. The Bush plan would open 1.5 million acres on the coast to drilling. Democrats argued that at the earliest, oil would not flow from the reserve for 10 years, and that conservation was the best way to ease the United State's dependence on imported energy. Barbara Boxer, the California Democrat who moved the amendment, said America could save more oil than could be extracted from the refuge just by getting [gas guzzling] SUVs [Sports Utility Vehicles] to have the same fuel economy as ordinary cars. Mrs Boxer told reporters: I think this is a huge setback [for the government]. This would have been their crown jewel. Conrad Burns, Republican Senator of Montana, criticised green groups for spreading what he called misinformation about the impact of drilling on wildlife and land. What's wrong with finding out how much oil we have? Mr Burns said. It's a land that we can take care of and still use the resources it provides. Mr Burns and other Republicans said that drilling in the refuge would create badly needed jobs, and new technology would limit damage to the land or wildlife. The defeat for Mr Bush's proposals suggests that his ambitious $670bn (£430bn) tax-cut proposal will have to be sharply scaled back to have any chance of passage. In the hours before the vote, the White House stepped up pressure on Republicans who might be wavering. With war looming, proponents of pumping the oil had focused on energy security, arguing the oil from the reserve oil would help America reduce its reliance on precarious foreign supplies. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] biodiesel - artic drilling connection.
Coleman votes against drilling in Arctic refuge FREDERIC J. FROMMER Associated Press WASHINGTON - Despite last-minute reservations, Sen. Norm Coleman decided to stick with a campaign promise and voted against allowing oil drilling in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Shortly before the vote, the Minnesota Republican said he was considering changing his stance because supporters had offered to divert money to support biodiesel. That would have helped Minnesota farmers, Coleman said. Coleman was one of the last senators to vote on an amendment removing the drilling provision from a budget resolution that's expected to pass later this week. The amendment passed 52-48, with one more vote than needed to block drilling. Environmental groups pressured Coleman to keep his campaign promise, and ahead of Wednesday's vote, a handful of demonstrators appeared outside Coleman's St. Paul office. They carried a giant reproduction of a letter Coleman sent a constituent last month stressing his commitment to protecting the refuge. We know that Sen. Coleman is under intense pressure to go back on his pledge to protect the Arctic refuge, Josh Buswell-Charkow, a field organizer of the Alaska Coalition of Minnesota, said in a telephone interview. But we in the environmental community believe that this is an absolutely crucial issue, he said. We will be watching his vote very closely. We anticipate he will vote the way he promised he will. Drilling supporters tried to use a budget resolution to lift the congressional ban on drilling in ANWR. Senate Democrats and a few anti-ANWR Republicans needed 51 votes to strip the drilling provision. Both sides had expected a close vote. Last week, Coleman was one of a handful of senators targeted by drilling supporters in hopes of picking up a 50th vote. At the time, he said he still opposed drilling but was willing to listen to drilling proponents. Coleman said his main objection was that energy policy should be focused on biodiesel, and that drilling supporters said they were willing to work with him on that. Earlier this year, Coleman declined to sign a letter circulated by anti-drilling GOP senators, urging Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., not to include ANWR in a budget vote. President Bush has argued the refuge's oil - anywhere from 5.6 billion to 16 billion barrels - should be tapped to reduce America's dependance on foreign crude. Environmentalists say that ANWR should be preserved as a sanctuary for polar bears, musk oxen, caribou and migratory birds. --- Fred Frommer can be reached at ffrommer(at)ap.org --- On the Net: U.S. Senate: http://www.senate.gov Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fiery oil wells would extend pain
Fiery oil wells would extend pain McClatchy News Service (Published Wednesday, March 19, 2003, 10:23 AM) AL BURGAN OIL FIELD, Kuwait -- If Saddam Hussein ignites Iraq's oil wells in a war, the ignition would be a weapon that would keep fighting long after the shooting and bombing end. Kuwait still is fighting the war with Iraq that started in 1990. Now, the battlefield is in oil-caked craters that pock this gravelly desert halfway between Kuwait City and the Saudi Arabian border. If Saddam were to set fire to Iraq's oil wells, there would be huge environmental problems, said Reyad al-Daher, an expert at the Kuwait Institute for Scientific Research. He will leave a problem that his successors will face for years and years. The craters are the dried-out beds of oil lakes that formed after retreating Iraqi troops blew out the heads of more than 700 of Kuwait's wells in 1991. Kuwait's experience illustrates the many reasons that the United States and its allies would rush to secure Iraq's oil fields if war broke out. Plans in the current buildup against Iraq call for ground troops to move in concert with air attacks rather than waiting for a prolonged period of bombing. One powerful reason for that strategy is the threat that Saddam will take out Iraq's oil wells in a last act of defiance, said Marine Lt. Col. Thomas Collins, who commands a battalion of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force. In 1991, the immediate loss for Kuwait was clean air. The country became a modern-day version of Dante's inferno, with smoke billowing from towers of fire to blacken the sky, and toxic soot propelling through neighborhoods, farms and wildlife areas. A decade later, researchers are finding elevated rates of respiratory illness in Kuwait. Smoke plumes in Iraq also could set back U.S. forces. Gas masks offer limited protection against hydrogen sulfide, one of the toxic chemicals from an oil-well fire, said Marine Gunnery Sgt. Randy Stiltner, an expert in equipment intended to defend the troops against nuclear, biological and chemical attacks. Another swift blow was to the oil revenues that are the lifeblood of Kuwait's economy. During the eight months it took to extinguish the fires, more than 1 billion barrels of oil went up in flames. Capping the flames was just a beginning. Kuwait's oil production systems were wrecked. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] san diego organic farming article
http://www.sdcitybeat.com/article.php?id=631 Keith: assuming you will like this article, let me note that the masthead is very clear as to prohibiting reproduction of any article, but I suggest you do it for your own records at the least, lest they take it down at some point. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] National address in just a few moments
El presidente de USA is to make a public address in shortly after 10:00 PM Eastern Standard Time this evening. That's only a few minutes from now. Not that I have any desire to hear a word that he has to say, but it would be of value to know exactly when the lights get turned out and how many souls are lost to his whim. Todd Swearingen [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: biodiesel - artic drilling connection.
I've never quite understood, if the proponents of drilling actually want a robust balanced excellent national energy policy, why these other measures are made *contingent* on drilling. Furthermore, some of them are probably sham measures, not at all proportional to drilling or any real effort. So, for example, when I hear that monies from drilling may help go toward researching solar energy, I'm just sort of amazed. How stupid do they think we are? What the hell does researching solar energy have to do with drilling? Why is solar regarded and portrayed as fit only for more supposed research? On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 20:51:24 -0500, you wrote: Coleman votes against drilling in Arctic refuge FREDERIC J. FROMMER Associated Press WASHINGTON - Despite last-minute reservations, Sen. Norm Coleman decided to stick with a campaign promise and voted against allowing oil drilling in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Shortly before the vote, the Minnesota Republican said he was considering changing his stance because supporters had offered to divert money to support biodiesel. That would have helped Minnesota farmers, Coleman said. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] National address in just a few moments
Shameful what greed can foster. Now the butt-monkeys at CNN can show 'bombs busting in air' so all the world can share in the glory. Too bad they can't focus their cameras on the innocents as they cower in fear as the moment of death strikes, so all can see the suffering. Ed B - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 8:58 PM Subject: [biofuel] National address in just a few moments El presidente de USA is to make a public address in shortly after 10:00 PM Eastern Standard Time this evening. That's only a few minutes from now. Not that I have any desire to hear a word that he has to say, but it would be of value to know exactly when the lights get turned out and how many souls are lost to his whim. Todd Swearingen [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fwd: Reminder WEbcasting from Kyoto/Rappel Sessions Forum Kyoto sur le web
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 17:16:24 -0500 From: Pauline Dole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Reminder WEbcasting from Kyoto/Rappel Sessions Forum Kyoto sur le web IDRC's Webcasting of the Third World Water Forum in Kyoto has started IDRC invites you to watch the various sessions and interviews from the Third World Water Forum (Kyoto, Japan) that are now available on the web. You can watch interviews with Eglal Rached, Director of IDRC's Office in the Middle East; Naser Faruqui, Senior Program Specialist and expert in water issues at IDRC; Margaret Catley-Carlson, IDRC Board member; and many others. Moreover, the sessions that have already been webcasted include the presentation of researchers on the Andean Water Vision and Indigenous Water Rights. More interviews and sessions will be put on line in the next few days. Interviews and sessions are available at http//worldwaterforum.idrc.ca/ -- Les sessions du Troisime Forum mondial de l'eau sur le web Le CRDI vous invite regarder sur la toile un choix de sances et d'interviews en provenance du 3e Forum mondial de l'eau qui se droule Kyoto (Japon). Vous pouvez voir et entendre des interviews avec des spcialistes du CRDI tels Eglal Rached, directrice du bureau du CRDI au Moyen-Orient, Naser Faruqui, spcialiste principal de programme au CRDI, Margaret Catley-Carlson, membre du Conseil des gouverneurs du CRDI, et bien d'autres participants. Parmi les sances dj diffuses on peut voir la prsentation de chercheurs latino-amricains portant sur la Vision de l'eau et les droits autochtones l'usage de l'eau dans les Andes. D'autres interviews et sances seront diffuses dans les jours venir. Le site des web-vnements http//worldwaterforum.idrc.ca/index-fr.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDANT REPORTERS INIRAQ-innocent lives will be lost!
At the time of the Second World War, German technology was producing gasoline from coal. An entire factory was brought from Germany, and assembled in Missouri. It made gasoline at a cost of 5 cents a gallon. It was dismantled and the technology was hidden away. Ed B Not so. This is what happened - posted here previously by a list member: One of our oldest scientists, now 84 yrs. old, was responsible for going into Germany post WWII and uncovering the remains of Hitler's synthetic fuels machine which had been bombed out. I'm speaking of Fischer-Tropsch oily-based paraffins which are hydrocracked down into shorter chains for synthetic gasoline, jet fuel and diesel. He brought back some of the original German scientists who'd perfected this technology which utilized coarse, low-grade brown German coal as feedstock. Three times he tried to start-up an American version of synthetic hydrocarbon fuels in the GTL arena and was blocked. As the highest ranking American energy technologist post WWII, he couldn't figure this out. It was over 20 years later that he realized that the late John Rockefeller of Standard Oil [Exxon] had been the politic behind the scenes, making sure that his new, alternative fuel ideas did not materialize. This scientist then took his blueprints for the first major GTL project and gave them to Sasol who built his first coal gasification device back in 1953 and it is still operating today. Sasol from South Africa is the oldest synthetic fuels producer globally. Best wishes Keith Yes, hydrogen from coal is the only fossil alternative. It will take you 20 to 30 years to get to this. Bush loves this, since he probably been briefed about the seriousness of today's situation. He does not explain it to the American people, like both Carter and Nixon tried to do. Things have not got better since then, on the contrary. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] I Want YOU To Invade Iraq - says Uncle oSAMa
I Want YOU To Invade Iraq Go ahead. Saddam will quickly fall, but that won't make the world safer or more secure. Your bombs will send me a new generation of recruits and fuel their hatred and desire for revenge. So go ahead. Squander your wealth on war and occupation -- America will be weaker for it. Divide your people, divide the world, isolate yourselves! Perfect! I thrive on chaos. I need an enemy. You give me both. http://www.tompaine.com/op_ads/opad.cfm/ID/7434 TOMPAINE.com - Op Ads Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Biofuel] Crude Oil Price
I was looking at the one year chart on Light Sweet Crude Oil Apr 2003 (NYMEX:CLJ3) http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYMEX_CLJ3v=d12 with a report below chart. Quite a steep drop the past few days. Basically gone from $38 barrel to $30 ___ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] the concept of this war
Donald Strong wrote: Aloe,Keith: I was in shock and awe that you passed my Ullman post without comment, given the prevailing tone of the posts of the past several months. Now that you have commented, I'll reply. 800 cruise missiles into Baghdad in two days? Little loss of life? Have neither you nor he read the projections? 1) This may have been part of the psychological hype (psy-ops) in the run-up of the last few weeks, to convince Saddam to not fight, but flee. 2) This is not WW II with German v-2's indiscriminately raining down on civilian England. Our military is fond of touting the precision of it's hardware. Maybe 800 on the Palaces and Ministry of Information, but not indiscriminately on the city. Such as .. say .. legal drug factories. Oh.. I mean chemical warfare manufaturing facilities. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Biofuel] Crude Oil Price
On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 22:36:29 -0600, you wrote: I was looking at the one year chart on Light Sweet Crude Oil Apr 2003 (NYMEX:CLJ3) http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYMEX_CLJ3v=d12 with a report below chart. Quite a steep drop the past few days. Basically gone from $38 barrel to $30 I think it's more or less analagous to what happened in the first Gulf War. Once the uncertainty was removed, the price dropped. I don't know what would make it go back up, because you have a lot of push behind that drop. The spiggots have been open for some days or weeks now. However, a destruction of the oil fields I suppose could make things interesting oil-price-wise. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] I Want YOU To Invade Iraq - says Uncle oSAMa
My gut feel is in the US it will hit the fan this summer. Saddam probably will be a quick victory but I think a backlash will come some months later. Hope I am wrong. Kirk -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 9:17 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] I Want YOU To Invade Iraq - says Uncle oSAMa I Want YOU To Invade Iraq Go ahead. Saddam will quickly fall, but that won't make the world safer or more secure. Your bombs will send me a new generation of recruits and fuel their hatred and desire for revenge. So go ahead. Squander your wealth on war and occupation -- America will be weaker for it. Divide your people, divide the world, isolate yourselves! Perfect! I thrive on chaos. I need an enemy. You give me both. http://www.tompaine.com/op_ads/opad.cfm/ID/7434 TOMPAINE.com - Op Ads Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.461 / Virus Database: 260 - Release Date: 3/10/2003 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
