Re: [OSM-talk] Automated Populate/Update Problem

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Hi,

I work for the state transport department
>

Sorry if I missed this somewhere, but which state and which country?
Depending on the answer, there might be a local community that can help and
provide guidance as well with the conflation/import process.

Thanks,
Eugene


On Wed, Sep 28, 2022 at 3:24 PM rob potter  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I work for the state transport department and we are looking to become an
> active member of the community and as a first dataset we have focused on is
> our public transport stops, bus and tram initially and then stations.
>
> I would like your advice on how to achieve the outcome.
>
> There are a number of considerations:
>
>
>- Currently in the state there are ~9,100 highway:bus_stop
>   - our GTFS - stops.txt has ~27,000 stops
>   - the current accuracy of highway:bus_stop needs review.
>   - stops.txt location appears to be of a much better quality
>
> My initial thought was extract current, match data location, enrich what
> stops.txt has then create all new and remove existing as final step.
>
> I would guess there are people screaming NO!! if so, please advise of
> a viable way of making such a significant
>
> Regards,
>
> Rob
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[OSM-talk] Pista ng Mapa 2020: open mapping conference in the Philippines starts tomorrow

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Hello all!

To celebrate OSM+Geography Awareness Week, the OSM and OSGeo/FOSS4G
community in the Philippines is holding the 2nd annual Pista ng Mapa
(Festival of Maps) conference online for the next three Fridays, on
November 13th, 20th, and 27th: https://pistangmapa.github.io/2020/

There are plenty of OSM-related talks over the 3 Fridays including from
Mapillary, TomTom (about MapRoulette), HOT, Mapbox, Facebook (about RapiD),
and Grab. You can see the complete programme here:
https://pistangmapa.github.io/2020/programme/

We'll be streaming the sessions live on YouTube. You can follow and watch
the Day 1 livestream starting at 0600 UTC here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBK_Xl0waWLv--GpvrcTzVQ/live

Regards, on behalf of the organizing team
Eugene
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[OSM-talk] A Call to Correct Narratives about Geospatial Work in the Philippines

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Hello all,

Last September 1, Amazon Web Services (AWS) released an episode of their
documentary series Now Go Build which highlighted the work done by the
Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team in the Philippines, especially in mapping
the town of Guagua, in the province of Pampanga.

You can see AWS' video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqQwEOaKRas

Several members of the OSM-PH community however have observed that there
are missing and problematic narratives in the video related to the story it
tells of geospatial and humanitarian workers in the country.

Therefore, some of us have prepared and released the following statement:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/a/aa/A_Call_to_Correct_Narratives_about_Geospatial_Work.pdf

Regards,
Eugene
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Re: [OSM-talk] Please be gentle with newbies

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Wikipedia has had a behavioural guideline like this since almost the
beginning with the nickname WP:BITE: Please do not bite the newcomers.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Please_do_not_bite_the_newcomers

On Wed, Mar 4, 2020, 7:25 AM john whelan,  wrote:

> These days I'm retired and use my old age pensioner bus pass to grab a
> free coffee.  Often there are strings attached like a group of politicans
> or journalists etc. floating around.
>
> Today I got cornered by one who had been on the receiving end of a
> communication from a mapper saying they had made a mistake on their first
> attempt at mapping.
>
> It was a couple of years ago and the message was a little on the
> aggressive side.  The receiver still remembers it clearly and in their mind
> OSM was a well this not the place to use those sort of words.
>
> When you send a message to a mapper you don't know who they are.  You are
> representing OpenStreetMap when you send a message so please put your
> passion to one side and be gentle with the poor things if only so I can
> enjoy my free coffee in peace.
>
> I do sympathize, I've come across a lot of suboptimal mapping in my time
> and mentally expressed exactly the same thoughts that were expressed but I
> do try to count to ten before sending a polite note that says did you
> really mean to map this this way?  Have you read the wiki here which gives
> guidance?
>
> And yes I know those who read this mailing list would always be polite but
> I couldn't think where else to post it.
>
> Thanks John
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Re: [OSM-talk] MS GitHub? | Re: Tagging Governance

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 11:27 PM Andy Townsend  wrote:

> If someone's less familiar with something, they're likely to volunteer to
> contribute using it.  It doesn't matter if it's Markdown, TeX (is that
> still a thing?  I last used it 30-odd years ago) or the solution du jour -
> anything that "needs learning" is an extra step to be dealt with before
> useful contribution can take place.
>

I think the beauty of Markdown is that it provides a really low barrier to
entry. People can still write plain text and it would still be valid
Markdown. And there is very little a non-Markdown-versed user can do mess
it up so that what they want to say is rendered unintelligible.
Furthermore, the OSM website extensively uses Markdown (the kramdown
variant) in the user diaries, comments, and inter-user messaging so it's
not as if we are introducing a markup language that is unknown for the
experienced OSM user.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing the Tabang-AI initiative

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Hi Marc,

On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 7:36 PM marc marc  wrote:

> could you share a link that shows that it is the local community that
> solicited facebook as the wiki page claims and not facebook that invents
> a collaboration to "whashing" their wishs ? given the frequent issues
> (about both the quality and the lack of collaboration and opt-in from
> the local communities where it took place before), it seems important to
> me not to repeat this error
>

Unfortunately, I cannot provide you with a link since we communicated with
Facebook's OSM team privately. This is completely our own initiative and
was not initiated from Facebook's side.

I completely understand your concern regarding Facebook's actions
especially with the problems and issues encountered by the local mapping
community in Thailand. As such, we stipulated with Facebook that any
mapping in the Philippines will only be done by local mappers and not by
Facebook's map team.

Cheers,
Eugene
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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing the Tabang-AI initiative

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Hi Frederik,

On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 5:55 PM Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> do I understand correctly that you and your local partners aim to
> recruit new mappers to OSM, who will not learn the "old fashioned"
> workflow of tracing stuff from imagery by hand, but be mainly taught to
> work with pre-processed Facebook road data?
>

Not at all. We have no plans to teach new contributors to *only* contribute
using the RapiD editor or using FB-provided data. We simply want to
incorporate these road-detections as an optional complement to the
trainings and workshops that we have been conducting over the past decade.


> How will you ensure that your partners give those new mappers a training
> that is good enough to know when to *not* trust the pre-processed AI
> data? All too often people automatically assume that "the computer is
> always right", and this would be especially the case in a mapathon setup
> where time is limited. Will local new recruits be taught to amend the
> raw machine-generated data with their own knowledge, like street names,
> road classification, surface...?
>

We are all too aware of the limitations of AI/ML-derived data and so we
plan to stress that AI is not infallible and to always use one's best
judgement. We will provide examples of false positives and false negatives
to show that the data still needs human judgement.


> [...] How will you ensure that you do not generate more contributions than
> you can ensure the quality for?
>

We have already browsed through the road-detections data provided by
Facebook and based on our assessment, most of the country's roads have
actually already been mapped. So we are pretty confident that the local
community can properly review/validate contributions and that we won't be
overwhelmed. We also plan to use the tasks-assisted instance of the HOT
Tasking Manager to coordinate mapping and validation. We have done a pilot
of mapping using RapiD with a small province as a test[1] and we think this
process is feasible. In addition, we do not plan to initiate wholesale
mapping of the country with Facebook's AI-derived data. Our plan is to wait
for local mappers, local government units, or organizations to contact us
if they want to help complete the road network their local area. Only then
will we create tasks and provide trainings or workshops in case they need
it.

[1] https://tasks-assisted.hotosm.org/project/9

Cheers,
Eugene
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[OSM-talk] Announcing the Tabang-AI initiative

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Hello!

The community of OSM mappers in the Philippines are pleased to announce an
initiative to use AI or machine learning (ML)-derived data to help improve
the coverage of OpenStreetMap in the Philippines and we are calling it
Tabang-AI. This is word play on the Cebuano word *tábangay* which means
"collaboration" or "teamwork". We believe that AI and ML, when used
properly, and always with local mappers leading the effort, is a fruitful
complement to conventional forms of mapping in OSM.

One of the first projects under this initiative is related to the AI road
detection technology developed by Facebook under their Map With AI service (
https://mapwith.ai/). We requested Facebook to run their machine learning
models in the Philippines and they have provided the detected road data
through their RapiD editor.

Together with various local partners (LGUs, NGOs, etc.) that we have forged
from the recent Pista ng Mapa conference[1] in Dumaguete, we plan to
promote baseline road mapping throughout the country to further increase
data coverage. This will be implemented in several phases to ensure that
the data added to OSM conforms to the defined quality standards outlined by
the local community.

You can read more about this Tabang-AI initiative on the OSM Wiki:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Philippines/Tabang-AI

If you are in the Philippines and want to start coordinating map tasks
within your community, please feel free to reply to this email, or sent a
private message to osm.pilipinas+aimappingrequ...@gmail.com or create a
GitHub ticket here: https://github.com/OSMPH/Tabang-AI/issues/new

[1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/GOwin/diary/390452

Regards,
Eugene
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Re: [OSM-talk] Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 10:55 PM marc marc  wrote:

> where are the results of the previous survey and the resulting actions
> available?
> I don't remember the exact title but I'm talking about the investigation
> about what osmf could/should do, a few months ago.
>

The OSMF Board published a blog post on the main OSM blog about the results
of that survey including some possible action items:
https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2019/06/13/surveying-openstreetmap/
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Re: [OSM-talk] Terminate Facebook rights under ODbL (Andy Mabbett )

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 6:17 PM Nuno Caldeira 
wrote:

> [...] OSMF is the licensor [...]
>

Well, if we really want to be strict about it, AFAIK, Facebook did not get
their map data directly from OSMF but rather through Mapbox. Mapbox got
their data directly from OSMF and are re-releasing their OSM derivative
database and produced works as vector tiles and static map images via their
APIs and SDKs. This would mean that it is the responsibility of Mapbox to
notify Facebook that FB is not in compliance with the ODbL.

However, I really think it would be interesting to see if OSMF bypassing
Mapbox and directly contacting one of Mapbox's clients is a valid legal
avenue to pursue attribution violations.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Terminate Facebook rights under ODbL

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Mon, Jun 10, 2019 at 4:47 PM Yves  wrote:

> I think a small '(c)OSM' for small screen web or app could be suggested as
> OK, what do you think?
>

Why not revive this dormant proposal for a small attribution logo that was
proposed 6 years ago:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/RFC_Attribution_Mark

If you have a small logo such as this (that would not look out of place
against similar logos like Google's, Mapbox's or Bing's), there is even
less reason not to attribute OSM.
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Re: [OSM-talk] We need to have a conversation about attribution

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 8:06 PM Christoph Hormann  wrote:

> I cannot help pointing out that the EU commission is also responsible for
> one of the most ridiculous cases of improper attribution i have seen so far:
>
> https://scihub.copernicus.eu/dhus/
>

Well, OSM *is* attributed on the bottom-right corner of the map. The text
says: "Open Street: { Data © OpenStreetMap contributors, Rendering ©
MapServer and EOX}"

But the attribution font is so tiny that is is barely noticeable. There is
attribution, but it is debatable whether using a tiny font size makes the
attribution improper or ridiculous.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Bot edits on the OSM wiki

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Monday, February 25, 2019, Christoph Hormann  wrote:
> Now the question if aristocratic governance would be beneficial for the
> OSM wiki compared to the anarchy we currently have more or less is
> something i would be open to discuss.  But basing membership in the
> aristocratic class on the technical ability to develop and run bots is
> quite obviously a bad idea.

Being able to code need not result to a rise in an aristocratic wiki class.
While I know that some people here do not want the OSM community to emulate
some practices in the Wikipedia community, I would argue that Wikipedia's
policy of only allowing wiki bots to run with explicit approval and for
very specific tasks is something we should consider. This gives the power
back to the community to decide when and where wiki bots are allowed to
operate.

We already have this practice on the main OSM database itself with the
Automated Edits code of conduct and the Import Guidelines.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Looking for phot of mapping mappers

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 5:22 AM Christoph Hormann  wrote:

> I like in particular
>
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Guagua_ESSC-OSMPH_Training_field_survey.jpg
>

Thanks! Looking at this media page, I see that I only uploaded a
scaled-down version. Oops. I have now re-uploaded the full 12MP version of
the photo.

~Eugene
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Re: [OSM-talk] Language used in OSM forum/wiki/mailing list

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 5:40 PM Naveen Francis 
wrote:

> Is there any policy on the language used in OSM talk/forum/wiki ?
> I was going through Thailand OSM forum
> .
> For a raising a concern we need not use abusive language.
> Users using abusive language should be warned, suspended or terminated
> depending on the degree of the abuse.
>

Hi Naveen,

There is no policy per se (as in something that is enforceable). But we do
have the following pseudo-guidelines that apply across all communication
channels hosted by the OSM Foundation:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Etiquette

~Eugene
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Re: [OSM-talk] Grab using OSM Data for route preview

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018, Mishari Muqbil  wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> Good news overall for the project I suppose, Grab (SE Asia's Uber) is
using data from OSM to do fare calculations as well as display route
previews in their app, making it a high profile use case for OSM Data. Now
if only they would attribute us.
>
> https://www.mishari.net/en/2018/12/grab-osm-data/

Hi Mishari,

I won't comment on whether the attribution to OSM is enough or not. That is
something that is for the OSMF Licencing Working Group to decide. Please
feel free to join the legal-talk mailing list[1] if you want to discuss the
lack of attribution further. But it is already known that Grab uses and
contributes to OSM.

Grab is a Gold Corporate Member of the OSM Foundation and they have a
representative on the Advisory Board by virtue of their Gold corporate
membership:
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Corporate_Members
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Advisory_Board

Grab has a dedicated mapping team helping to map and improve the road
network in urban areas where they operate. Their mapping process is
documented on the OSM Wiki and they keep track of their progress on GitHub:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Grab
https://github.com/GRABOSM/Grab-Data

And there has even been a recent article on Quartz on why Grab is doing
this:
https://qz.com/1481849/grab-southeast-asias-biggest-ride-hailing-firm-is-on-a-mapping-spree/

[1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

~Eugene
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Candidate's views? Re: Board decision on Crimea complaint

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 10:02 PM Imre Samu  wrote:

> TLDR:  We need focusing for the customizable vector tiles for the next
> year!(  Less community fighting - more working on the real problems!  )
>

Vector tiles and customizable styling is not enough. AFAIK, we never use
3rd-party data (except for the public domain Natural Earth data for the
lower zoom levels, IIRC) when rendering the default tile layer on the OSM.
So we still need to represent the various viewpoints on disputed borders
and territories within the OSM database itself if you want that level of
flexibility on the default tile layer(s). There are already a couple or so
threads on the Tagging mailing list discussing various tagging solutions
for representing these viewpoints and disputes.

~Eugene
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Re: [OSM-talk] Wikimedia Maps deployment

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 2:50 PM, Daniel Koć  wrote:

> It's also good that they were able to deploy multiple language versions
> - we would hit this problem anyway, sooner or later, and I hope that
> eventually we will be able to provide them too.
>

FWIW, multi-language maps is one of the Top Ten Tasks defined by the
Engineering Working Group of the OSM Foundation.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Top_Ten_Tasks#Localized_map_rendering

There's also the ongoing thread on this same mailing list:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2018-April/080560.html
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Re: [OSM-talk] Donation from the Pineapple Fund

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 8:21 PM, Dave F  wrote:

> I've very little knowledge or even interest in Bitcoin, but was it
> converted into hard currency? If not, is it worth much now?
>
> DaveF
>

Per Frederik's (OSMF Treasurer) email on the OSMF mailing list in January,
all of the donated bitcoins should have already been converted to British
pounds:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2018-January/005009.html

However, I am not sure how much pounds it all was converted into eventually.
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[OSM-talk] SharedStreets open platform is built on top of OSM

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

I came across this article describing SharedStreets which is intended to be
an open platform for city governments and private entities like Uber to
share street-related data like traffic data, taxi/cab pickup points, and
the like. The chief architect for SharedStreets says: "What GTFS does for
transit, we’re doing for streets."

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/02/a-powerful-map-promises-to-help-cities-keep-streets-free/553739/

Here's the SharedStreets website:
http://sharedstreets.io/

And it links to the SharedStreets GitHub repository which explains the
technical details.
https://github.com/sharedstreets/sharedstreets-ref-system

It seems that they can ingest OSM (or another set of geodata) to generate
an abstracted topology of the street network based on street intersections
and the street segments connecting them.

Here is their FAQ with respect to OSM:

*How does this relate to OpenStreetMap? (Or, doesn't OSM already do this?)*
>
> SharedStreets complements OpenStreetMap. OSM does not attempt to provide
> stable IDs, and complex OSM ways make many applications difficult to build
> using raw OSM data.
>
> SharedStreets provides a layer of abstraction on top of OSM, allowing
> users to work with the topology of OpenStreetMaps data without dealing with
> the details how OSM ways are encoded.
>
> By providing direct references to OSM way and node IDs users can always
> query and relate SharedStreets references back to the underlying OSM data
> where needed.
>
> We believe that SharedStreets will allow users to more rapidly improve
> OpenStreetMap data by making it easier to identify missing streets, or
> opportunities to improve street geometry and connectivity.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] "The Future of Free and Open-Source Maps" Slashdot.org , Saturday February 17, 2018

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 9:53 PM, john whelan  wrote:

> Possibly a technical working group to identify areas that could be
> improved or even if we were to start over again how would we do it from a
> technical point of view?  Funding would be a different problem.
>

I believe the now-defunct Strategic Working Group (
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Strategic_Working_Group) is what you
are looking for?

~Eugene
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Re: [OSM-talk] Support OSM communities and disaster response this holiday season (by 31 Dec)

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 2:44 AM, Christoph Hormann  wrote:

> On Thursday 14 December 2017, Tyler Radford wrote:
> > [...] big-impact projects conceptualized by OSM community leaders.
>
> I had hoped that HOT learned from the tasking manager problem a few
> months back that properly referring to OSM in a way that clarifies the
> difference between HOT and OSM is important.  The above indicates this
> hope was in vain.
>
> By saying your microgrant projects are "conceptualized by OSM community
> leaders" you imply support and endorsement from the OSM community and
> draw legitimacy from this for what from my perspective seems to be a
> program with completely intransparent decision making processes.  You
> also imply the existence of a hierarchy in OSM of leaders and followers
> which is not an accurate representation of the reality of OSM either.
>
> There is nothing wrong with supporting mapping projects with money, even
> if the criteria for that are unclear and subjective but you should not
> present this as if this financing is somehow integrated into and
> supervised by the OSM community.
>

Christoph, it's no secret that you are quite skeptical about HOT and wary
of their influence on the wider OSM community, but I think you are letting
your views color any communication from HOT in a negative light.

I'm not sure if you are aware of how the microgrant system is run, but
local OSM communities, such as OSM Zambia, submit grant proposals which are
then selected by HOT. This is what is meant by Tyler when he wrote "OSM
community leaders". These are basically the "leaders" (in the broadest
sense of the word) of local communities who do the work of actually
conceptualizing/writing a grant proposal. Hence, "projects conceptualized
by OSM community leaders".

And surely saying that the decision-making process is "completely
intransparent" is just being plain lazy. Here are several blog posts and
documents providing quite a bit of detail into the process and results that
can be reached with just a couple minutes of Googling:

https://www.hotosm.org/updates/2016-12-06_funds_for_community_led_projects_the_2017_hot_microgrants_program
https://www.hotosm.org/updates/2017-02-02_hot_microgrants_programme_launches_0
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SVI_wxf0CbZ2pOOf8kuqREkZwvmxmSTp9i3jbHsBkCo/edit
https://www.hotosm.org/updates/2017-04-20_hot_microgrants_2017_results
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Re: [OSM-talk] Planned rendering changes of protected areas

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Paul Johnson  wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 6:05 PM, ajt1...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> On 30/11/2017 13:46, Daniel Koć wrote:
>>
>>> 1. Currently leisure=nature_reserve (old scheme) and boundary=* (new
>>> scheme) are frequently tagged in parallel, and it looks like the old scheme
>>> is used as a hack just to make it visible on default map.
>>>
>>
>> Just to chuck one example in - I've tagged lots of
>> "leisure=nature_reserve" and almost no "boundary=protected_area;
>> protect_class=XYZ".  The reason is simple - nature reserves where I'm
>> likely to be mapping often have a sign saying "XYZ nature reserve".  There
>> isn't going to be a sign helping me work out what "protect_class" in OSM it
>> is, so that doesn't get mapped.  It's also nothing to do with "what gets
>> rendered"; I actually render my own maps and map quite a lot of stuff that
>> isn't displayed there :)
>>
>
> Seems like it wouldn't be too difficult to consider the two as equivalent.
>

Not exactly. Some protected areas are cultural/social/heritage protected
areas. Specifically those tagged with protect_class=21 to 29.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Woods vs Forests

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 5:18 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> A problem comes from the name "natural" that to most people (including
> mappers) carries a meaning that excludes some meanings accepted in the
> OSMwiki definition.
> For this reason it would be better to use a tag that carries no distorted
> meaning, say landcover=trees for instance.
>

I can definitely agree with this. landcover=trees carries no weird meanings
unlike natural=wood (natural? man-made?). I can accept using landuse=forest
for land that is used for forestry-related uses (like production of timber
or a national forest), but for everything that is covered by a dense group
of trees, landcover=trees seems the way to go.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Misrepresentation of OSM by HOT?

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Oct 24, 2017 3:08 AM, "Blake Girardot HOT/OSM" 
wrote:


Here is my American, collaborative version of the same issue:


Hi,

I see the new HOT Tasking Manager.

I feel like it does not clearly describe how it it used in the
OpenStreetMap community. It is just a tool for OSM mapping, it is not
the whole of OSM and I think people might be confused possibly.

It also seems like the OpenStreetMap project and community should be
linked to a little more so people can understand and have a path to
becoming good OSM Community folks.

Can we work on improving that in HOT's new Tasking Manager? I have
some ideas that are mostly wording changes or additions and hopefully
would be easy to add.


As a non-American and non European, this (or Mikel's version) is definitely
more pleasant to read but still brings up the same substantive points as
the original email. Because we are an international collaborative
community, I think that we should make the extra effort to be a bit more
polite in how we deal with others and in pointing out problems/points of
improvement especially on written medium where intention/emotion is not
easy to convey (as Mikel pointed out).

~Eugene
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Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 3:52 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

> yes, currently it doesn’t seem the deletionists are active in wikidata,
> but also wikipedia was not always like it is today. The notability policy
> is there and one day someone might come and say: these roads are just
> ordinary roads, nothing notable about them to keep, they will likely never
> ever have their own article, image, or page in Wikipedia, Wikimedia
> Commons, or Wikivoyage..
>

But having a corresponding page/article/image is just the 1st of the 3
criteria for keeping an item in Wikidata. These Dutch streets fulfill the
2nd criteria which you already quoted: "The entity must be notable, in the
sense that it can be described using serious and publicly available
references" and the Notability policy only requires that at least 1 of the
3 criteria is met.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 9:02 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

> From what I have seen so far, this should probably be less of a concern,
> but it is an uncertainty (because it could be interpreted more rigidly in
> the future), I agree. Requirements seem to be much lower than they are for
> wikipedia inclusion, for one because a link to any of these wikimedia
> projects is sufficient: Wikipedia, Wikivoyage, Wikisource, Wikiquote,
> Wikinews, Wikibooks, Wikidata, Wikispecies, Wikiversity, or Wikimedia
> Commons (this paragraph is followed by some clarification and limitation).
> In other words, if you want to save your pet wikidata object from deletion
> it is sufficient to take a picture of it and upload it to wm commons.
>
> There's also a very soft criterion in the next paragraph which allows
> object that "[refer] to an instance of a *clearly identifiable conceptual
> or material entity*. The entity must be notable, in the sense that it *can
> be described using serious and publicly available references*."
> It requires references to be "serious" (how subjective is this?).
>

Wikidata's notability policy is actually very liberal. If you're familiar
with the Inclusionist versus Deletionist debate in Wikipedia, Wikidata is
heaven for Inclusionists. For instance, Wikidata now has items for
practically all streets in the Netherlands. 99% of these will likely never
ever have their own article, image, or page in Wikipedia, Wikimedia
Commons, or Wikivoyage.

Here is the import request (bot task) that imported the Dutch streets into
Wikidata:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_permissions/Bot/RobotMichiel1972_2
And here is the Wikidata SPARQL query to extract the street items:
http://tinyurl.com/y7k6cfc7
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Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 11:20 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

> Maybe because these are seen as facts and not copyrightable?
>

Ignoring the issue regarding the provenance of geographic coordinates, for
other types of data (like names), it is the position of the Wikimedia
Foundation that facts are not copyrightable and therefore these can be
inputted into Wikidata which has a CC0 license.

As for the issue of the sui generis EU database rights, it is the position
of the Wikimedia Foundation that this only applies to databases created by
EU citizens/corporations/legal bodies and does not apply to databases
created outside the EU. So when importing data from databases originating
from the EU, permission needs to be obtained. See this page for more
information: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikilegal/Database_Rights
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 9:22 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

> This is one of the fields (fundamental to OSM), where wikidata is just a
> mess: distinction of geographically localized communities and
> administrative territorial entities.
>
> Just a few examples:
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q123705 neighbourhood is a subclass of
> "human settlement" and "community". So far so good, but then it is also
> "part of municipality"?
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2983893 quarter is a subclass of
> neightbourhood and administrative territorial entity. And it is an instance
> of "designation for an administrative territorial entity".
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q486972 human settlement looks OK at a
> glance
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q515 city is a subclass of "human
> settlement", "administrative territorial entity" and "political territorial
> entity" (are these AND or OR?).
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3957 town is a subclass of "human
> settlement". It is "part of a country". It was also a subclass of political
> territorial entity until today [1]
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q532 village is a subclass of "rural
> settlement" and part of "rural area".
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q14788575 rural settlement is an instance
> of "designation for an administrative territorial entity" and a subclass of
> "human settlement"
> etc.
>
> Take the town example: it has been for some years a subclass of political
> territorial entity and isn't anymore since today. There are tens of
> thousands of objects that are all instances of towns according to wikidata.
> With one edit all of them have lost their "political territorial entity"
> status.
>

I wouldn't worry too much about these very generic classes of human
settlements or administrative areas. It would be better to focus our
attention on the actual Wikidata items on settlements and administrative
areas of each country, like Waldhufendorfs in Germany (
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q351190) or comunes in Italy (
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q747074). These national subclasses should
then be classified as subclasses of whichever appropriate generic
settlements or administrative areas there are.

So I doubt that tens of thousands of towns in Wikidata suddenly lost their
political territorial entity status. I would think that some of them are
still classified as such because of a different path up the ontology tree.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 11:02 PM, Christoph Hormann  wrote:

> Simple example:  The Faroe Islands are both a country:
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/52939
>
> and an archipelago:
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3067431
>
> in OSM which are represented as separate features obviously.  Both
> reference the same wikidata item [...]
>

This is most certainly a wrong modeling in Wikidata. While we can just have
one well-written and comprehensive Wikipedia article about the
country/archipelago, in Wikidata, one item should correspond to one
concept. So there should be separate Wikidata items for the archipelago and
the country. The fact that it isn't like that right now is simply because
Wikidata is an ongoing project, just like OSM.

As an example, we have the island of Bali (
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4648) versus the province of Bali (
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3125978), though there is only just one
English Wikipedia article covering both concepts:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bali
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] OSM+Wikidata intro video

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Please clarify the license of this combined database and any data returned
from a SPARQL query. I assume any data returned is under ODbL since it
contains data derived from the OSM database. But this is not indicated
anywhere in the Query Service and is not included as metadata in the
returned dataset.

If this is not corrected, this Query Service will unfortunately be listed
under the following page:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lacking_proper_attribution



On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 12:07 PM, Yuri Astrakhan 
wrote:

> The RDF/SPARQL database that has both OpenStreetMap and Wikidata data in
> the same table is alive and well, and getting considerable usage. To make
> it better understood by even wider community, I made an intro video with
> some examples.  This database mostly benefits the object tag validation and
> research at this moment, as its geometry support is still in the works.
>
> The wiki page has also seen a lot of cleanup, explaining how quality
> control can be done. I hope that other tools such as JOSM and especially
> MapRoulette will be able to use it directly. Also, please contribute your
> SPARQL queries to the wiki page.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDiKzbuIhts
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikidata_RDF_database
>
> ___
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>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] new Wikidata+OSM data in one RDF database

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

So what is the license of this combined database and is this combined
database a whole database or a collective database? Note that Wikidata is
under CC0 while OSM is under ODbL.

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 12:03 AM, Yuri Astrakhan 
wrote:

> TLDR: A SPARQL (rdf) database with both OSM and Wikidata data is up for
> testing.  Allows massive cross-referenced queries between two datasets. The
> service is a test, and needs a permanent home to stay alive.
>
> Overpass Turbo is awesome, but sadly it does not have data from Wikidata,
> nor does it support some SQL-like conditions. I have setup a temporary RDF
> database that has both OSM & Wikidata. You can use SPARQL queries to find:
>
> * All OSM objects with wikidata tag that references a Wikipedia
> disambiguation page. Get the name of the page in first available language
> ru, fr, de, en.http://tinyurl.com/mzlfb26
>
> * OSM relations with wikidata tag pointing to a person (also tries
> multiple language fallbacks).  http://tinyurl.com/m6fh3wx
>
> * OSM relations with duplicate Wikidata IDs http://tinyurl.com/mvhhogx
>
>
> == OSM data structure ==
> osmnode, osmway, osmrel - OSM object prefix, e.g.  osmnode:1234
> osmt - tag, e.g.  osmt:name:en  (only has tags with latin chars, -, _, :,
> digits
> osmm - meta data about the object -- type, isClosed, version.
>
> I try to preserve OSM data without much changes. Every tag's value is
> stored as a string, except for wikidata and wikipedia tags which are
> converted to a URL, the same format as stored in Wikidata.
>
> osmway:29453885
>   osmt:name "Samina";
>   osmt:waterway "river";
>   osmt:wikidata wd:Q156065;
>   osmt:wikipedia ;
>   osmm:type "w";    could be "r", "w", and "n"
>   osmm:isClosed false;     this meta property is only for OSM ways
>   osmm:version 24.
>
> Wikidata data structure is identical to https://query.wikidata.org (see
> help)
>
>
> == Current limitations ==
> * Only includes OSM objects with either "wikidata" or "wikipedia" tags
> * The OSM data only contains tags with only Latin letters, digits and
> symbols - : _
> * OSM geometry info is not imported, e.g. no center point or bounding box,
> except for osmm:isClosed (true/false) property for ways.
> * Does not include OSM object inheritance data - e.g. cannot query for
> "find a node that is part of a way which is part of a relation that has
> wikidata tag that ..."
> * Wikidata is updated every second, but OSM does not yet update at all,
> imported from a full db dump as of a few days ago.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Public GPS Traces

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Canonical blog post that explains this layer:
https://www.mapbox.com/blog/openstreetmap-gps-layer/

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 1:41 AM, Dave F  wrote:

> Main Page > Map Layers > Public GPS Traces
>
> What do the different colours represent for this feature?
>
> DaveF
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] The movie Eye in the Sky credits OpenStreetMap

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

I saw another mainstream film that credits OSM in the end credits and this
is the film adaptation of Dan Brown's novel Inferno. The credit went “©
OpenStreetMap contributors”. There was no mention of any license again.

I've decided to create a new wiki page[1] to list these films, linked from
the "Press" wiki page[2].

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Films
[2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Portal:Press

~Eugene


On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I just saw the film Eye in the Sky, starring Helen Mirren and Alan
> Rickman (the movie is really good), and I was pleasantly surprised to
> see OpenStreetMap and its contributors get a credit in the end
> credits. The surprise is partly because I do not recall seeing any map
> in the film that looked like it came from OSM.
>
> IIRC, the credit went like “OpenStreetMap © OpenStreetMap
> contributors”. No mention of any license though.
>
> Now I'm wondering whether there are any other mainstream films that
> also use and credit OpenStreetMap as well. This is the first time I've
> seen such a credit and I don't recall any mention as well on this
> mailing list.
>
> ~Eugene
>
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[OSM-talk] The movie Eye in the Sky credits OpenStreetMap

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Hi all,

I just saw the film Eye in the Sky, starring Helen Mirren and Alan
Rickman (the movie is really good), and I was pleasantly surprised to
see OpenStreetMap and its contributors get a credit in the end
credits. The surprise is partly because I do not recall seeing any map
in the film that looked like it came from OSM.

IIRC, the credit went like “OpenStreetMap © OpenStreetMap
contributors”. No mention of any license though.

Now I'm wondering whether there are any other mainstream films that
also use and credit OpenStreetMap as well. This is the first time I've
seen such a credit and I don't recall any mention as well on this
mailing list.

~Eugene

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Re: [OSM-talk] Automated edits code of conduct

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 5:26 AM, Éric Gillet 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> OSM contributions must follow the Contributor Terms
> ; these
> therms are being shown to new users and they must explicitely accept them
> before they can start contributing.
>
> However, another distinct set of rules is also being enforced by the DWG :
> the Automated edits code of conduct
> 
>  (AECoC).
>
> In contrary to the Contributor Terms, these rules :
>
>- Are not shown to new contributors
>- Are not accepted by new or existing contributors
>- Doesn't seem to have been voted on before their "establishment"
>- Seems to have been written by an eminent, but small set of
>contributors (history
>
> 
>)
>
> Like the Contributor terms, the AECoC is enforced by the DWG and can cause
> reverts by its members, on terms that have not been accepted by
> contributors.
>
> As such, I think that the AECoc in its current form should not serve as a
> basis for reversal of changesets by the DWG.
>
> If it were to, I think it should be put to an higher set of standards than
> the changeset it aims to direct. For example it could be audited with an
> RFC, then a vote, and finally being explicitely accepted by contributors.
>
> What are your thoughts ?
>

The comparison between the Contributor Terms and AECoC is unfair.

The Contributor Terms is a legal requirement. Users need to *explicitly*
agree to the Contributor Terms in order to avoid legal issues and avoid
breaking the law (such as adding data from copyrighted sources without the
necessary license and permission).

On the other hand, the AECoC is a community guideline. If you break it,
there are no legal issues. So there is no legal requirement that guidelines
have to be accepted by every user.

But should the AECoC be *explicitly* accepted/voted on by users outside of
legal requirements? It may be a nice to have that, but the AECoC has been
existing since 2008, and was borne out of frustrations by a lot of users
then about people making quick, wholesale changes (i.e., automated) without
discussing them first. The fact that this guideline has been existing that
long and with no major opposition to them existing in the first place (well
some may quibble on a particular provision or two) effectively makes them a
guideline by consensus. I don't agree that new users have to continually
"ratify" this guideline.

~Eugene
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[OSM-talk] State of the Map Asia 2016 Call for Presentations

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Dear everyone,

The State of the Map Asia 2016 team is hard at work to bring to you the
best presentations about OpenStreetMap and resilience in Asia and the rest
of the world. We couldn’t do that without your help! So we are inviting you
to submit proposals for 20-minute talks, 5-minute lightning talks, and
90-minute workshops that will provide value to conference attendees.

If you are interested in presenting, please refer to the following
conference web page for instructions: http://stateofthemap.asia/program

Note that the deadline for submission is on July 31.

We are all excited to see what you have in store for us!


Eugene Villar
On behalf of the SotM Asia 2016 Team


On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 9:56 PM, maning sambale 
wrote:

> Dear everyone,
>
> We are happy to announce that the 2nd State of the Map Asia will
> happen in Manila, Philippines on October 1-2, 2016. Two days in the
> Philippines with talks, discussions, and workshops all around the free
> and open map of the world.
>
> This is a free event (no registration fee), if you plan to join, head
> over to the website to register.
>
> http://stateofthemap.asia/
>
> In the coming weeks, we will announce the call for proposals,
> scholarship applications and other details. We are also looking for
> sponsors to cover for food and other expenses needed to make this
> awesome. If you are interested, please contact:
> osmpilipinas+sotmasia2...@gmail.com
>
> We hope the OSM community in Asia and all over the world can join.
>
>
> Maning Sambale
> In behalf of the SOTM-Asia 2016 Organizing Team
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] MAPS.ME edits - partly sub-standard

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Andy Townsend  wrote:

> On 24/06/2016 14:40, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:
>
>
> This defect has already been reported to their GitHub repository:
> https://github.com/mapsme/omim/issues/2902
>
>
> You've seen https://github.com/mapsme/omim/issues/3623 though?
>
> ("This bugtracker is not actively monitored, b...@maps.me could be used
> for reporting")
>
That's a pity. Bug reporting via e-mail submission instead of via a public
bug-tracking system is definitely a step back.
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Re: [OSM-talk] MAPS.ME edits - partly sub-standard

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 11:57 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer <
dieterdre...@gmail.com> wrote:

> while at it, whitespace at the beginning and end of the tag values should
> be removed before upload...
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/39910220
>

This defect has already been reported to their GitHub repository:
https://github.com/mapsme/omim/issues/2902
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Re: [OSM-talk] who do we trust for photos?

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 5:24 AM, Russ Nelson  wrote:

> The trouble with any non-profit service is that if they cease to get
> donations, they will be shut down.
>

This observation also applies to the OSM database as hosted by the OSMF.
But we all still contribute to OSM anyway because we trust that OSMF or
another entity will be able to continue hosting the database. This is
possible because of the license.

I would suggest to upload your photos to Wikimedia Commons (of course with
an open/free license—Wikimedia Commons won't host it otherwise). You can
also provide a back-up on Flickr which also allows tagging photos under a
CC license.
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Re: [OSM-talk] VisualEditor on the OSM wiki

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

OK. I'm slightly amused at the praise for enabling VisualEditor on the OSM
Wiki, when there was a huge backlash on the English and German Wikipedias
when VisualEditor was turned on and made the default editor for
non-logged-in and newly registered users:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VisualEditor#Reception

For comparison, the backlash against VisualEditor (people were complaining
that it messed up templates, tables, and references) is similar (though
with more vitriol) to the one iD faced when it became OSM's default editor
(where people complained that it messed up relations and silently merged
tags in combined ways).

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 11:15 AM, Grant Slater 
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Glad you like it. I enabled it 2 days ago.
>
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/chef/commit/8d3c08fa5ec0a351555df7629083c7f54ad262fb
>
> The Parsoid API is now supported, which should allow
> http://www.kiwix.org/ to make an offline copy of the OSM wiki.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Grant
>
>
> On 3 January 2016 at 22:39, Éric Gillet  wrote:
> > I thought I missed the announcement, but looks like it was a secret gift
> > from the wiki sysadmins !
> >
> > Thank you and have a good 2016 :)
> >
> >>
> >> 2016-01-03 23:02 GMT+01:00 Rob Nickerson :
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > Not sure when this happened (some time recently) but I wanted to thank
> >> > our
> >> > wiki system admins for adding the VisaulEditor extension to the OSM
> >> > wiki.
> >> > For those that don't know the extension is a rich text editor for
> wiki's
> >> > and
> >> > came about following concern over declining new contributors to the
> >> > wikimedia projects. It has taken many years to develop this extension
> >> > but it
> >> > is great to see it now being used on the OpenStreetMap wiki (as well
> as
> >> > the
> >> > WikiMedia sites).
> >> >
> >> > If you have never edited a wiki page before now is the time to try it
> >> > out.
> >> > No longer do you have to remember the wiki syntax to make an edit :-)
> >> >
> >> > Rob
> >> >
> >> > ___
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> >> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> >> >
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] If a school is a shelter when a disaster happens...

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

> besides the precise tagging (social facility or emergency), I just want to
> point out that you can have 2 main tags for the same area (overlapping),
> just not on the same object.
> You could for instance have a way tagged as school and have this same way
> as an outer member for a multipoligon relation which gets the shelter tags.
>

+1
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Re: [OSM-talk] Fixing Starbucks Wikipedia Tags (Was Nominatim Weakness)

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 1:36 AM, Clifford Snow 
wrote:

> My adding the wikipedia tag to the original Starbucks store...
>

I disagree with this tagging. You only tag wikipedia=* if the Wikipedia
article and the OSM object refers to the same thing. The Wikipedia article
is about the company/brand and not about the original store even though the
article would certainly mention the store (as part of the company's
history).
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Re: [OSM-talk] Nominatim weakness

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 10:13 AM, Dave F.  wrote:

> On 14/12/2015 08:25, Sarah Hoffmann wrote:
>
>>
>> Some helpful person has put a wikipedia link to the Starbucks
>> wikipedia page on every single Starbucks in Japan. That's what
>> throwing off Nominatim. Having a wikipedia page boosts the importance
>> of an object.
>>
>
> Have you considered that the program is over weighting the importance of a
> wiki page?
>

In most situations, having a Wikipedia page is a roughly good indicator
that a map object is more important. A residential house will almost always
lack its own Wikipedia article, while a museum would probably have one.

And as Sarah mentioned, Nominatim also does some sort of weighting of
Wikipedia articles also. So an OSM object will not necessarily become
overly important just because there's a wikipedia=* tag.


> Do end users want to find a coffee shop local to them or one thousands of
> kilometres away just because it has an extra tag attached?
>

Not just an extra tag, but *wrong* tag. In this particular case, I think
the best fix is to correct the wrong tagging, and not to tweak the
Nominatim algorithm.

Eugene
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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On 11/19/15, Simon Poole  wrote:
> While rabid anti-OSMers are gaining more power and influence in HOT and
> MM, [...]

This bit is new to me. Care to explain who these anti-OSMers are, what
their agenda is, and how they are using HOT and Missing Maps to
further their agenda? (I've talked with someone from the French OSM
community who says they're not enthusiastic about Missing Maps, but
I'm not sure if this is related to these alleged anti-OSMers.)

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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 11:31 PM, Russ Nelson  wrote:

> I could go through the discussion over the last month and identify a
> grand total of five people who reject mapping abandoned railroads.
>

Just like in any mailing list, there is a vast majority of people who have
one opinion or the other who don't speak up. I agree with these five
people. So that makes it six vocal people (plus possibly many other silent
people) who agree that mapping totally non-existent objects is not what OSM
is about.
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Re: [OSM-talk] The Proposed Great Colour Shift

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 6:23 PM, Lester Caine  wrote:

> The main problem here is that OSM is used by a large part of the UK web
> services [...]
>

I agree that this is a problem. But not for the reasons you may think. The
OSM default tileset is *not* meant to be used as a general-purpose tileset
by third parties. There are no service-level guarantees and styles may
change without notice to them. There is *absoutely* no obligation on the
OSM community to notify third party users of our tilesets of any changes.

In fact, third parties who consume too much tile bandwidth are encouraged
to source tiles from other services like MapQuest or Mapbox, or roll out
their own tile service.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tile_usage_policy
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Re: [OSM-talk] Routing Applications

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Imagine a single-carriageway road crossing a dual-carriageway road.
All turns are allowed except u-turns from one side of the
dual-carriageway to the other. This common situation can only be
modeled using a turn restriction with a via way.

Now if the via way had to be split for any reason, then you have
multiple via ways.

On 6/17/15, Michael Reichert  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Am 2015-06-17 um 14:38 schrieb Eugene Alvin Villar:
>> This has been fixed in Osmand early this year after being reported
>> more than 2 years ago. Unfortunately, multiple via ways are still not
>> supported.
>
> I wonder if a via way instead of an via node is necessary so much. I
> wonder more where someone /really/ needs multiple via ways. Can you call
> examples for multiple via ways (link to relation)?
>
> Best regard
>
> Michael
>
>
> --
> Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten
> ausgenommen)
> I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)
>
>

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Re: [OSM-talk] Routing Applications

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

This has been fixed in Osmand early this year after being reported
more than 2 years ago. Unfortunately, multiple via ways are still not
supported.
https://code.google.com/p/osmand/issues/detail?id=1729

On 6/17/15, Janko Mihelić  wrote:
> If you ask me, they are all in their infancy. Non of these routing services
> even route right. In a turn restriction the "via" role can be a way.
> Neither OSRM, ORS or GraphHopper knows how to restrict that, and that's
> IMHO one of the crucial parts of a routing engine.
>
> When one of them starts routing right, than we can talk about picking a
> winner service. Right now only MapQuest knows how to route.
>
> Janko
>
> sri, 17. lip 2015. 05:34 Hans De Kryger  je
> napisao:
>
>> Why do OSRM & OpenRoutingService compete against each other instead of
>> joining resources and combining efforts to make the best routing service
>> out there? Am i missing something? I know it's nice to have different
>> services for different uses but this doesn't seem like a good use of
>> resources at all. I may be the only one with this opinion, but this has
>> bug
>> me for awhile.
>>
>> *Regards,*
>>
>> *Hans*
>>
>>
>> *http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TheDutchMan13
>> *
>>
>> *Sorry for any misspellings*
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>>
>

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Re: [OSM-talk] (licence of wikidata) was: Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 7:46 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

>
> 2015-06-08 12:34 GMT+02:00 Eugene Alvin Villar :
>
>> Please see the following page for
>> the relevant discussion: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Help:Sources
>>
>
>
> the second word in this page says you don't need sources for everything
> ("The majority of statements on Wikidata should be verifiable")
>
>
>
>> So in your example, a city can be tagged as being a metropolis if a
>> reliable source states so, such as a government economic planning
>> office.
>>
>
>
>
> for obvious reasons "government economic planning offices" are not
> independent but following an agenda. How is dealt with different sources
> declaring opposite "facts"?
> The current situations looks rather different though, most properties of
> "Berlin" (the most known one of all Berlins, not the small villages and
> towns with the same name), including the "metropolis" "fact", have 0
> references, only few have 1 reference, and in some cases this reference is
> a wikipedia article: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q64
>
> Interestingly, small, unknown places do not seem to have less references,
> I checked for "Breitenholz", a small place nobody is supposed to know, not
> even people from southern Germany, where it lies, and it had 3 out of 4
> facts documented with references (then I saw that all those references were
> from wikipedia): http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q906373
>
> Venice, world famous Italian city, had almost no references that weren't
> from wikipedia: http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q641
>
> Even London does not boast with references for all the facts about it
> (many of them from wikipedia), but it has 2 "independent" references to
> confirm its "exact coordinates": the Russian and the English wikipedia ;-)
>
> On a sidenote: I was astonished that the reference for the fact that
> Berlin is the capital of Germany, was a link to a UN statistical database
> [1], rather than a link to the German (actually international because of 2
> countries agreeing on the contract) law that defines this:
> http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/einigvtr/art_2.html
> [1] http://data.un.org/CountryProfile.aspx?crName=Germany
>
> Given that (AFAIK) the data is mostly imported/derived from wikipedia and
> not all content in wikidata is "facts" it seems that the CC-0 license
> cannot be safely assumed for the dataset as a whole.
>
> Interestingly, I have seen that London has a reference with the
> OSM-relation ID for London. Given that wikidata operates systematically and
> seems to copy IDs from OSM (i.e. derivative database or maybe collective
> database), wouldn't this imply ODbL for wikidata or at least the OSM-parts
> of it? For reference, this is the property:
> http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P402
>

Martin, just like OSM, Wikidata is a work in progress. ;) This is why Andy,
I, and others want to promote the use of Wikidata in order to grow it. This
is especially true now that Freebase, another open structured-content
database (bought by Google), has decided to shutdown in favor of Wikidata.
Freebase has substantially more data than Wikidata, but has no concept of
citations or sourcing. There is currently a process for migrating data from
Freebase to Wikidata.

I have also added the treaty source that Berlin is the German capital to
the capital statement.

Regarding the statements imported from Wikipedia, these are considered
jumpstart data and are treated as unsourced until proper citations are
added. As Help:Sources says: "Please note that while pages on Wikipedia
(and other Wikimedia sites) should and can be added as sitelinks, they are
not appropriate as sources for Wikidata statements."

As for OSM ID number, this falls under the so-called "Fairhurst Doctrine"
and would not be considered "Substantial" under ODbL if and only if the
community agrees and the OSMF endorses. See this mailing list discussion
[1] and Community Guideline proposal [2].

[1]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2009-October/002881.html
[2]
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Metadata_Layers_-_Guideline
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Re: [OSM-talk] (licence of wikidata) was: Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Actually, Wikidata aims to avoid such judgment calls. As much as
possible, all facts (aka "statements" in Wikidata parlance) should
have citations to reliable sources. Please see the following page for
the relevant discussion: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Help:Sources

So in your example, a city can be tagged as being a metropolis if a
reliable source states so, such as a government economic planning
office.

On 6/8/15, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>> Am 07.06.2015 um 21:37 schrieb Eugene Alvin Villar :
>>
>> Because in US copyright law, facts are not copyrightable. You can source
>> the fact that "Washington, D.C." is the "capital of the United States of
>> America" from a copyrighted book without that fact inheriting the
>> copyright license of the book.
>
>
> on the other hand, even if the idea behind it was different, not all data in
> wikidata are hard facts like the capital example. For example whether a city
> can be considered "metropolis" or "financial centre" is based on judgement
> and is not something that always gets decided the same way regardless of who
> makes the decision.
>
> cheers
> Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] (licence of wikidata) was: Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 4:06 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:

> - individual facts extracted from wikipedia articles. From a WMF pov
> unproblematic since "facts can't be copyrighted", from an OSM pov
> problematic because they might have originally been extracted from a 3rd
> party source and might be from a database rights pov, a substantial
> extract of that source (for example POI data from google) if included
> wholesale in OSM.
>
> - wikidata data: the WMF claims no database rights in the collection of
> individual facts and the reasoning for CC0 is based on the "facts can't
> be copyrighted" doctrine. In other words, we could wholesale import
> wikidata in to OSM from a WMF pov, however as already said, the
> provenance of the data is unclear and has the same issues as facts
> extracted from wikipedia articles. @Eugene I doubt if the WMF was
> actually thinking of DCMA requests against wikidata content in the
> published policy, as following one would damage their stance on facts
> not being copyrightable. In any case it is clear that they have not been
> policing their sources as SomeoneElse points outs.
>

Note that I am quite aware of the issues surrounding adding data from
Wikidata wholesale *into* OSM. I actually pointed this out during my
presentation at last year's Wikimania about OSM and Wikimedia
collaboration/cooperation:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Wikimedia_and_OpenStreetMap_%28Wikimania_2014_presentation%29.pdf&page=50

For this reason, I agree that we can't use Wikidata as a wholesale source
for OSM unless we are sure of the provenance of the data and its
compatibility with ODbL irrespective of Wikidata's CC0 license.

On the other hand, I don't think this should prevent third parties from
mixing and matching Wikidata with OSM to produce an ODbL-derived database
given that they are aware of the risks (aka legal minefield that you
pointed out before).
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Re: [OSM-talk] (licence of wikidata) was: Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 12:40 AM, SomeoneElse  wrote:

> However the bit that I really don't understand is that, to take an example
> wikidata page:
>
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q23098
>
> the source of that is from other, non-CC0-licensed places - how can the
> result be CC0?
>

Because in US copyright law, facts are not copyrightable. You can source
the fact that "Washington, D.C." is the "capital of the United States of
America" from a copyrighted book without that fact inheriting the copyright
license of the book.

Note that the US does not have database rights. The relevant case is Feist
v. Rural: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_Publications,_Inc
.,_v._Rural_Telephone_Service_Co.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Sun, Jun 7, 2015 at 10:29 PM, Simon Poole  wrote:

> Am 07.06.2015 um 14:12 schrieb Eugene Alvin Villar:
> ..
> >
> > So the advice of being wary of Wikidata's CC0 license should also be the
> > same advice for OSM's ODbL license.
> >
> The difference is that while we don't warrant that the OSM dataset is
> completely free of incompatible data, it is the intent and such data
> will be removed if identified. This isn't a panacea, but given the US
> DCMA and similar laws in other countries, probably good enough.
>
> There is AFAIK no such policy by the WMF, and as I said their
> (marketing) policy is that the problem can't exist.
>

http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/DMCA_Policy
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Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Sun, Jun 7, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Simon Poole  wrote:

> tl;dr version: linking to wikidata is probably ok, including wikidata
> could be a minefield.
>

I don't think anybody was actually suggesting to include bits and pieces of
Wikidata into *the* OSM database. I think the idea is for third parties to
use Wikidata as a complementary source to fill in the bits and pieces that
are not in OSM (either by design or by incompleteness). Of course, those
third parties are well advised of the legal minefield that you mention.

On the other hand, I don't think OSMF also warrants that the OSM database
is really fully ODbL-compliant in its entirety all the time. If some
copyright violations were added and then discovered, the DWG will revert it
and further redact it if necessary. But somebody may have gotten the
tainted minutely changesets before the violation is discovered.

So the advice of being wary of Wikidata's CC0 license should also be the
same advice for OSM's ODbL license.
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On 6/3/15, Steve Coast  wrote:
>
>> On Jun 2, 2015, at 6:22 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar  wrote:
>> On Jun 3, 2015 8:06 AM, "pmailkeey ." > <mailto:pmailk...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
>> > OSM's k=v design is completely a serious and unnecessary flaw. [...] OSM
>> > is 90% argument, 5% dead-end discussions and 5% progress. The whole is
>> > not a marketable product; it's not fit to be rated as 'beta'. Is this a
>> > significant cause of ex-mappers ? It's a flipping brilliant project but
>> > sadly lacking a great leader.
>>
>> It seems you are deeply unsatisfied with how OSM works. And your broad
>> assertions such as that OSM is "not fit" or is "90% argument" are
>> completely unfounded.
>>
>
> I don’t know; there are a bunch of fairly key and active OSM people who
> unsubscribed from the lists precisely because they felt it was mostly
> circular argument.

Yes, people leave mailing lists because of the endless arguments and
constant bike-shedding. But that does not constitute 90% of OSM. I am
willing to bet that majority if not 90% of OSM activity is of mappers
actually mapping. Mailing list discussions is a really small slice of
the overall OSM activity.

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Jun 3, 2015 8:06 AM, "pmailkeey ."  wrote:
> OSM's k=v design is completely a serious and unnecessary flaw. [...] OSM
is 90% argument, 5% dead-end discussions and 5% progress. The whole is not
a marketable product; it's not fit to be rated as 'beta'. Is this a
significant cause of ex-mappers ? It's a flipping brilliant project but
sadly lacking a great leader.

It seems you are deeply unsatisfied with how OSM works. And your broad
assertions such as that OSM is "not fit" or is "90% argument" are
completely unfounded. Sure, OSM is not perfect but I seriously doubt that
the k=v design or some other point you have raised is the culprit.

Feel free to leave and create a separate project. You can even be the
"great leader" for that new project that you think OSM needs. If your ideas
are indeed better, then your project will succeed and you can then prove
OSM wrong.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 8:33 PM, moltonel 3x Combo 
wrote:
>
> On 28/05/2015, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:
> > Another issue that can be seen here: nobody will want this "Puente Nuevo
> > (París)" as a label for a bridge on a map (París)
> > Funny ah? Every single entity in wikidata I have looked at had some
issues
> > in one or the other way, I believe we would get more problems than we
would
> > solve.
>
> The issue here is that these strings are the name of the wikipedia
> article in various language, which is *not* the same as the name of
> the location in various languages. Wikipedia likes to add some
> disambiguation text, which we do not want in OSM.


Note: For many Wikidata items, there are 2 lists: a list of links to
various language Wikipedia articles (this powers the interwiki links in
Wikipedia), and a list of name translations. These two lists do not
correspond exactly because the Wikipedia article title may often have a
disambiguating string.

For example: The city of Paris in Texas, USA:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q830149
(JSON version, so you can see the translations:
https://www.wikidata.org/entity/Q830149.json )

The English label for this Wikidata item is "Paris", while the English
Wikipedia article title is "Paris, Texas".
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Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

I agree that OSM is not the proper place to record every possible
translation of every place name. And I think that Wikidata should be that
proper place and just leave the few name:xx tags in place for the major
languages that are spoken in that place, and only if the name is not a
straight-up transliteration.

A possible problem is that currently, Wikidata notability policy[1] means
that Wikidata will only contain items for "notable"
objects/entities/concepts. (But note that Wikidata is much, much more
inclusive than Wikipedia—Wikidata will contain vastly more items than
Wikipedia has articles.) This means that not all buildings, streets, and
other objects that we have in OSM will have corresponding Wikidata items.

[1] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Notability


On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 5:13 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
>we're seeing more and more "name:xx" tags on OSM objects.
>
> Not only are speakers of widely used languages adding their language
> tags all over the world; but rising interest in OSM also brings us to
> the attention of language lovers and speakers of minority languages. The
> less established a language is, the more committed its few proponents to
> have "their" language respected and recorded.
>
> The place node for London has 154 name tags as we speak, but there are
> several thousand languages in use on the planet, so there's still room
> for enhancement.
>
> Not only well-known tourist magnets carry foreign names; some dedicated
> language mappers have gone over and beyond the call of duty and added,
> for example, name:ru tags even to small villages:
>
>  http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/name%3Aru#map
>
> (This is a matter currently under investigation by Data Working Group
> and it is relatively certain that not all 582,653 name:ru tags will
> remain.)
>
> It is difficult to judge when such foreign names have a right to be
> there, and when they're just inventions or name translations or
> transliterations. I guess we'll have to make rules on that somehow, but
> at the same time I dread doing it, and I wonder:
>
> If a place has a wikidata tag, could/should we then simply defer to
> Wikidata for names in other languages?
>
> We are a database of geodata and not one of international cultural
> heritage; even if London has a name in over 2000 languages, is OSM
> really the place to record these 2000 names? Would it not be better to
> record the wikidata link for London, and then (perhaps in co-operation
> with people at Wikidata) provide means for people doing map rendering to
> join OSM data with a separately-loaded translation table from Wikidata?
>
> We could then limit ourselves to using a "name" tag for the locally used
> name, or continue to allow a "name:xx" but only if these languages were
> actually used by the local population; throw in an int_name if you want
> (but some may say that's already an unfair privilege for users of
> English and the Latin alphabet). Anything else - i.e. names used for a
> place in other languages than the local ones - would be off-topic for
> OSM and should be recorded in Wikidata.
>
> Do you think Wikidata could play that role, and take the burden off of
> us? Or is Wikidata not mature enough for that yet, or even unsuitable?
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] High load on the rendering servers?

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 6:15 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:

>
> Jon Burgess tracked the issue down to a way node being dragged from
> Japan to Brazil on the 3rd of this month, creating a very very long way
> that increased the rendering time for a large number of tiles at high
> zoom levels.
>

Wow. This constitutes an extremely simple way to mount a DoS attack on the
OSM tileservers. I will have to assume that the Operations WG is already
thinking of ideas on how to prevent this possibility in the future.
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Re: [OSM-talk] State of the Map US 2015 in New York, NY, June 6-8

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:04 AM, Michael Kugelmann 
wrote:

> I personally have a somehow different opinion: 2014 was in (South)
> America, so why host the next SOTM again relativeley close to there (from
> the viewpoint of an European)? OK, the UN is prestigious location for such
> a meeting. But I would prefer more to have the SOTM circulating the globe...
>

Last year's SotM was in Birmingham and the year before that was in Tokyo.
The distance from Tokyo to Birmingham is about 9,500 km. On the other hand,
the distance from Buenos Aires to New York is a comparable 8,500 km. So I
wouldn't say that having SotM be in New York after Buenos Aires is
relatively close. Also remember that the first 4 SotMs were all in Europe.
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Re: [OSM-talk] State of the Map US 2015 in New York, NY, June 6-8

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

The following is just my opinion.

Based on New York's bid proposal, the fact that it will be held at the UN
and that it has an international character and not just a simple regional
SotM, SotM US 2015 will definitely overshadow any of the 2 SotM 2015 bids
which are Toronto and Venice. If the OSMF still decides to go with a
separate conference, Toronto is too close to New York so Venice might be
the more attractive option.

But I would rather see New York as the SotM 2015 and Venice as the SotM EU
2015. So I think that the OSMF should cooperate with OSM US and declare the
winning New York bid as the State of the Map 2015.


On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Randy Meech  wrote:

> Good morning from Buenos Aires on the last day of the State of the Map!
>
> As a member of the NYC organizing committee, I want to invite everyone to
> save the dates for SotM-US at the United Nations on June 6-8, 2015. The
> conference will be very large and very international, with a lot of full
> travel scholarships in our proposal (and other ways to defray costs). We're
> getting started now, and will keep you up-to-date on deadlines.
>
> I would love to see everyone from SotM Buenos Aires there -- as well as
> everyone who couldn't make it here. New York really is nice in June...
>
> -Randy
>
> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Ian Dees  wrote:
>
>> The board of OpenStreetMap US is happy to announce that the State of the
>> Map US conference will be held in New York, NY at the United Nations June
>> 6-8, 2015.
>>
>> We had two other very strong proposals for events in St. Louis and
>> Seattle. Thanks to the groups that pulled those proposals together! These
>> aren't easy and the fact that we had three very strong proposals means our
>> community is strong and growing quickly.
>>
>> I encourage everyone to reach out to the OSM US board if you're
>> interested in participating in the planning for this event. We're always
>> available via e-mail at bo...@openstreetmap.us.
>>
>> You can read more about the proposals and the upcoming event on our blog
>> post:
>> http://openstreetmap.us/2014/11/sotmus-2015-in-nyc/
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ian and the OSM US board
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] tag with value lists Was: Proposed mechanical edit to convert alt_name tags

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:00 AM, Florian Lohoff  wrote:

> Isnt the semicolon the list seperator typically used in OSM? My
> intuitive answer would have been alt_name=a;b;c;d
>

+1

I think using a semicolon-delimited list is better than a potentially
open-ended set of keys such as "alt_name_x", and already has precedent.
While it is true that semicolon as a multi-value separator is not written
as a "law" of OSM tagging, it is quite frequent enough to be a de facto
tagging guideline.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 5:22 AM, Lester Caine  wrote:

> But where do you stop. Wikipedia and wikidata are not the only sources
> so if they get 'special treatment' then why not some of the other
> similar archives? Now if every other archive simply included an OSM tag
> ... problem solved. But why should we get special treatment the other
> way around? We just need a reliable way of identifying POI's that we can
> all agree on and then lookup all data with filtering relevant to the
> intended use.
>

1. We already link to Wikipedia using the wikipedia=* tag. I really can't
see how wikidata=* is any different. Linking to Wikidata actually provides
more value than merely linking to Wikipedia as it provides additional data,
*including* links to all language Wikipedias where the object has an
article.

2. Wikidata is certainly special. There is no other freely-licensed and
general-purpose database project out there that is maintained by an open
community. Freebase comes close but it is owned and operated by Google.

3. You fear that linking to Wikidata opens up the floodgates for linking
from OSM to other databases (such as national registries and the like). But
actually, it makes much more sense to link from Wikidata, being a database
about data, to those other databases instead of from OSM. In fact, Wikidata
already has many of properties (like keys in OSM) that provide links to
other databases[1][2]. We can leverage that in OSM by linking to Wikidata.

[1]
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:List_of_properties/Generic#Authority_control
[2]
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:List_of_properties/Geographical_feature#Administrative_territorial_entity_identifier
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Aug 31, 2014 4:53 PM, "Fabio Alessandro Locati" 
wrote:
> Also, I would add that Wikidata is different from many (or all) other
databases since:
> 1. it can give REAL value to OSM users (while most dbs don't)
> 2. It's philosophically close to OSM (while most dbs aren't)

+1. We already link to Wikipedia using the wikipedia=* tag. I really can't
see how wikidata=* is any different.

Linking to Wikidata actually provides more value than merely linking to
Wikipedia as it provides additional data, *including* links to all language
Wikipedias where the object has an article.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Aug 31, 2014 5:14 PM, "Simon Poole"  wrote:
> Nipping this in the bud: the OSMF and WMF are working together on
> exactly 0 (in words: zero) projects.
>
> Note: this is simply a statement of fact and not an opinion on if the
> OSMF should or should not collaborate more (less not being possible)
> with the WMF.

This is true.

But there are certainly plenty of instances where OSM and Wikimedia
organizations and groups (not OSMF and WMF) have collaborated together.
There's a joint project between Wikimedia Indonesia and HOT Indonesia to
map and create Wikipedia articles in Kalimantan. Wikimedia Italia organized
OSMit 2013, the annual OSM conference for the Italian OSM community.
Wikimedia Suomi (Finland) is collaborating with the OpenHistoricalMap
community. Wikimedia Deutschland has sponsored the multilingual OSM map
project developed by Jochen Topf.

In addition, WMF is certainly using OSM extensively. In fact, WMF currently
has a job opening for a map engineer and one of the requirements is OSM
experience. And OSM is inspired by Wikipedia and uses Wikimedia resources
such as MediaWiki for the OSM Wiki. And we link to Wikipedia and use photos
from Wikimedia Commons as well.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 6:45 AM, Rob Nickerson 
wrote:

> Summary: Good question and some long term thinking required but the import
> will, at most, only make this thinking need to be done sooner. We'll have
> to cross this question even if this import doesn't occur.
>

Just to provide some background:

Wikidata has a notability policy:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Notability
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Notability/Inclusion_criteria
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Notability/Exclusion_criteria

But this notability policy only pertains to whether there should be a
Wikidata item for some object, much like we in OSM ask if things like
administrative boundaries or flight paths should be included in OSM or not.

Then, Wikidata also has what are called statements, with properties and
values. This is roughly the counterpart of OSM's tags, keys, and values.
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Properties
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:List_of_properties/all_in_one_table

Just like OSM, there is a discussion and process on managing properties,
but their processes are strictly enforceable unlike OSM's process for
"voting" for the approval of tags on the OSM Wiki.
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Properties_for_deletion
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 12:47 AM, Edward Betts  wrote:

> I'd like to annotate these 70k objects in OSM with a Wikidata tag
> automatically.
>

+1. As somebody who would like closer integration between Wikimedia
projects like Wikidata and OSM, I definitely agree with the proposal. The
methodology, as explained, is quite conservative and I checked a few
matches in my country and they are all good. As suggested by someone, maybe
bridges should be excluded for now because of the split ways problem.

Does anybody have a strong preference that the edits are split up by region,
> or loaded in batches?
>

Splitting the edits by region/country would be really preferable so that we
mostly avoid the large changesets problem for this annotation task.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Personal maps tool similar to my maps

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Try uMap: http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/


On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 1:34 AM, Tanveer Singh 
wrote:

> In google maps world you can create your own map, with waypoints, POIs
> etc., of your choice and export it as KML etc., etc.,
>
> IS there a similar website/tool/system available for OSM where I can
> create a POI map online and then export
>
> --Tanveer
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Street Name

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 7:34 AM, Clifford Snow 
wrote:

> I need help with a street name. In Leavenworth, WA there is a street named
> "Edelweiss Weg" that I want to add. Is Weg an abbreviation for something?
> It will be tagged highway=service service=alley. Google translate doesn't
> help.
>
> If it is an abbreviation, should it be expanded as we usually do?
>

I believe "Weg" is German for "way":
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Weg#German
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Re: [OSM-talk] overpass api tips and tricks

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Generally, the Overpass API and Overpass Turbo documentation is enough for
developers to understand. What they really need to know also is the OSM
data model (nodes, ways, relations, tagging) in order to make the most out
of Overpass.


On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 7:13 PM, maning sambale
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Looking for hidden Overpass resources (other than the ones I saw below).
> IMO, overpass is one of the good ways to introduce OSM data to developers.
>
> Advance thanks for sharing your tips and tricks!
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_API
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_turbo
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_API/Language_Guide
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> --
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Issues with finding street corners

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Droid Power  wrote:

> In Ecuador it is quite common for places to be identified by the two
> intersecting streets since street numbering is not consistent. Yet it seems
> OSM does not allow this, is this a bug or my fault?
>

Do you mean while using the place search on the OSM website?

I think the default search engine software, Nominatim, is not yet capable
of searching for intersections. If you want, you can file a feature request
on the Github project page: https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim/issues

For other software and apps (like OsmAND), you may also need to file for
feature requests so that intersection searching can work on those.

However, if you mean tagging addresses with street intersections, there is
no "official" way to tag addresses with 2 streets.

Such addresses are common in my country and so we have adopted the
addr:street:corner=* tag, in addition to the addr:street=* tag, to identify
the secondary street address intersection:
http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/addr%3Astreet%3Acorner
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Isn't All That Open, Let's Change That and Drop Share-Alike

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Serge Wroclawski  wrote:

> We see this already. I've spoken to companies and orgs who have said
> specifically that they would not contribute to OSM if it was not
> Share-Alike. No one wants to be competing against themselves in the
> future.
>

This is actually a pretty good argument for share-alike.By having
share-alike, a company that pours time, money, and effort into improving
the database will not inadvertently help a competitor that would not give
anything back.

Sure, a CC-BY or even CC0/PD license is "freer" than a share-alike license,
but only for a data user in isolation (they don't have any onerous
obligations and that's "freer").

But, share-alike ensures that the freedom is sustainable for *everybody* in
perpetuity and not just single users.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Not attaching polygons to roads

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 6:42 PM, Dave F.  wrote:

> I'm not convinced this is usually true. It maybe UK specific, but
> municipal boundaries were more likely to originally be placed on physical
> boundaries to farms & estates such as walls, fences etc. before
> tracks/roads were developed. Roads subsequently evolved along those
> boundaries afterwards.
>
> It would be pretty silly to have a municiple boundary splitting the centre
> of a road so different administrations were responsible for maintaining the
> left & the right.
>

This is usually true in my country. For example, here's the legal
definition of a district in the capital Manila:

Malate. - Beginning at the intersection of west face of the sea wall on
> Dewey Boulevard and the center line of Calle Cuarteles; thence along the
> center line of Calle Cuarteles, M. H. del Pilar and Herran, and Esteros de
> Paco, and Tripa de Gallina, to the city boundary line; thence westerly
> along said boundary line to high-water line on Manila Bay; and thence
> northerly along said high-water line and the west face of said sea wall to
> the point of beginning.[1]


Hence, the relation for the Malate district[2] contains rivers and roads
(and coastlines) as members.

[1]
http://philippinelaw.info/statutes/ra409-revised-charter-of-the-city-of-manila.html
[2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/103704
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Re: [OSM-talk] good intro slidesets about OSM

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 12:12 AM, Steve Chilton wrote:

> Any links or offers gratefully received.
>

I usually do a search at SlideShare to look for inspiration:
http://www.slideshare.net/search/slideshow?q=openstreetmap
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[OSM-talk] Typhoon Haiyan and OpenStreetMap

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Hello everyone,

The online response to mapping the areas affected by Typhoon Haiyan is very
heartwarming. Thank you to everyone involved. Please do continue to map as
the data is being used by first responders and relief workers.

Most of the information about mapping efforts can be found on the OSM Wiki:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Typhoon_Haiyan

Here are some choice highlights:

1. HOT's OSM Tasking Manager: http://tasks.hotosm.org/
- This is where most of the mapping efforts are coordinated. There are
currently 13 tasks that you can participate in. Almost all tasks are for
tracing buildings and roads using available Bing satellite imagery. One is
for assessing damage using post-typhoon imagery.

2. The Atlantic - "How Online Mapmakers Are Helping the Red Cross Save
Lives in the Philippines":
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/11/how-online-mapmakers-are-helping-the-red-cross-save-lives-in-the-philippines/281366/
- Feature article explaining how the map data in OSM can help the
(American) Red Cross in directing relief effort where it is needed most

3. Changesets map by Pascal Neis:
http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-typhoon-haiyan-2013/#7/11.502/122.805
- Hourly updated map showing the locations of half of the 8000+ changesets
in the affected areas. These changesets were done by 600+ mappers and
contain almost 1.3 million changes (versions) to objects.

4. Before and after map:
http://pierzen.dev.openstreetmap.org/hot/leaflet/OSM-Compare-before-after-philippines.html
- Side-by-side map comparing rendered OSM data from before the typhoon to
the current OSM tiles

5. Areal damage overview map of Tacloban:
http://a.tiles.mapbox.com/v3/americanredcross.map-ms6tihx6/page.html#14/11.2189/125.0116
- Map by the American Red Cross showing areas damaged in Tacloban. The
buildings come from OSM. This map has been used by The New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/11/11/world/asia/typhoon-haiyan-map.html?_r=1&;

Thanks!
Eugene
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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming changes to OpenStreetMap.org website

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Peter Barth  wrote:

> * History mostly always gives "No changesets in this area" for areas
>   smaller than whole europe
>

This is because the test website uses a completely separate database from
the main OSM website, except for Nominatim search results and the tiles. So
there is no changeset almost everywhere.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Wikipedia article

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 10:53 PM, Jason Remillard  wrote:

> Eugene - Obviously, I think it is OK right now that it is hard to diff
> and revert changes. We are not under assault by spammers.
>

But you do agree that it's something that needs to be improved eventually?
It's not spammers alone that are the problem. For example, I think the
criticism about iD showing a prominent trash icon for deleting objects
would be lessened if people have an easy way of reverting such mistakes.


> However, check this link out. It shows that Wikipedia has about
> 36,000+ active editors (90 day average)
>
>
> http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~halfak/publications/The_Rise_and_Decline/images/decline.png
>
> OSM, currently have about 18,000 active editors (30 day average)
>
> http://osmstats.altogetherlost.com/
>
> We know that 80% of the edits are done by the active editors. Using
> this important metric, we are about half the size of Wikipedia, which
> is amazing.
>

The 36,000 number is only for the English Wikipedia. If you get the edits
for all Wikipedia languages, which makes the number more comparable to OSM,
the number of active Wikipedians is around 71,000:
http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesWikipediansEditsGt5.htm

In addition, in Wikipedia, an active editor is defined as one who has
edited at least 5 times in a calendar month. The OSMstats page you linked
seems to count a user as active when he or she has contributed at least
once (which seems correct when looking at the stats for my country). So, if
we were to use the same definition of "active user", I'm sure the
difference in counts would be even larger than the 71,000 vs. 18,000.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Wikipedia article

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 5:06 AM, Jason Remillard
wrote:

> It seems like Wikipedia has revert first policy on questionable edits.
> It makes it unpleasant to start with the project, since probably every
> bodies first edits are questionable.
>
> OSM policy/culture of discussing a change *before* reverting is really
> good thing.
>

Two good things about Wikipedia that I hope OSM would emulate are (1) how
easy it is to see what an edit has changed in an article, and (2) how easy
it is to revert an edit—especially good for obvious vandalism.

In OSM, trying to figure out what exactly happened in all but the most
simple changesets is quite hard. Changesets pages only show what objects
were added/modified/deleted but we have no good "diff" tool unlike in
Wikipedia. (Granted, diff-ing text is a well-known problem with lots of
solutions; diff-ing geodata is relatively new.) The OSM History Viewer is,
I think, the best tool we have for analyzing changesets, but it still lacks
important features (for example, it can show you objects that have been
deleted on a map but it doesn't tell you what those objects are and what
tags they had).

While we have tools for reverting changesets, they are not as easy to use
as with Wikipedia and complex changes sometimes need to be referred to the
DWG. In addition, it's hard to partially revert a changeset—reverting only
the problematic objects and leaving the rest untouched (or improved).
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Re: [OSM-talk] Administrative boundaries export

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 1:35 AM, César Martínez Izquierdo <
cesar@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Eugene, that looks really promising.
> I've seen there is an API to query Wikidata (results can be list of
> Wikidata item IDs encoded as JSON), but I don't see the way to get the item
> itself as JSON (or any other parseable format). Is it on the way?
>

Unfortunately, I am not up-to-par with the API side of Wikidata. I assume
that every bit of data on Wikidata can or will be accessible through APIs.
Otherwise, it would limit the usefulness of Wikidata if we resort to
scraping the HTML page.



> 2013/10/3 Eugene Alvin Villar 
>
>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 6:35 PM, César Martínez Izquierdo <
>> cesar@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Eugene, I am also interested on your proposal to store on Wikidata a
>>> table/database similar to the one described on 1, so any further details on
>>> available infrastructure, technologies in use, work already done, etc are
>>> welcome.
>>>
>>
>> Hi César, you can look at this Wikidata page for the German state of
>> Baden-Württemberg as an example: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q985
>>
>> It currently contains interesting properties and relationships that may
>> be what we need. Some interesting properties/relations are (especially the
>> OSM one):
>>
>> country=Germany
>> capital=Stuttgart
>> type of administrative division=state of Germany
>> ISO 3166-2=DE-BW
>> GND identifier=4004176-1
>> contains administrative division=Regierungsbezirk Freiburg,
>> Regierungsbezirk Karlsruhe, Regierungsbezirk Stuttgart, Regierungsbezirk
>> Tübingen
>> is in the administrative unit=Germany
>> OpenStreetMap Relation ID=62611
>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Administrative boundaries export

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 6:35 PM, César Martínez Izquierdo <
cesar@gmail.com> wrote:

> Eugene, I am also interested on your proposal to store on Wikidata a
> table/database similar to the one described on 1, so any further details on
> available infrastructure, technologies in use, work already done, etc are
> welcome.
>

Hi César, you can look at this Wikidata page for the German state of
Baden-Württemberg as an example: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q985

It currently contains interesting properties and relationships that may be
what we need. Some interesting properties/relations are (especially the OSM
one):

country=Germany
capital=Stuttgart
type of administrative division=state of Germany
ISO 3166-2=DE-BW
GND identifier=4004176-1
contains administrative division=Regierungsbezirk Freiburg,
Regierungsbezirk Karlsruhe, Regierungsbezirk Stuttgart, Regierungsbezirk
Tübingen
is in the administrative unit=Germany
OpenStreetMap Relation ID=62611
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Re: [OSM-talk] Administrative boundaries export

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 9:18 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer
wrote:

>
> 2013/10/3 Paul Norman 
>
>>
>> Frankly, I find the idea of using the coastline as an admin boundary
>> rather silly. This would mean that if you step out 1 foot into the
>> water, you've left the state or country.
>
>
>
> indeed it seems to be different: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters
> look at the internal waters in the diagram, those allow to reduce the
> admin-ways a lot by simplifying and not using the coastline.
>

Not quite. By default the baselines use the mean low-water line, basically
the coastlines, but not the coastlines in the OSM sense (high-water line).
Straight baselines *may* be used only in cases where the coastline is
deeply indented such as bays, coves, fjords, and the like, or if the state
claims to be an archipelagic state (whose baselines are all straight). So
for the more-or-less concave coastlines, the baselines would still be
complex. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseline_%28sea%29
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Re: [OSM-talk] Administrative boundaries export

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 6:52 AM, Christian Quest wrote:

> UK level 4 is on the maritime borders (island culture ?) where most other
> European countries stop on the coastline... tagging bio-diversity is not
> helpful !
>

This is actually another point to consider when extracting admin boundaries
from OSM data.

My personal view is that the admin boundary marks the boundary where the
administrative entity exercises jurisdiction. Under UNCLOS, nations are
allowed to exercise full sovereignty over internal waters (which includes
water seaward of the coastline but within the baselines) and almost full
sovereignty (foreign ships are allowed "innocent passage") for territorial
waters (up to 12 nautical miles from the baselines). So I think that using
the maritime boundaries as the admin_level=2 boundary is not incorrect and
this is reflected in OSM.

Use of maritime boundaries for admin_level=3 and higher (such as with UK)
depends on how the particular nation interprets its internal
maritime/fisheries laws. In my country, we have "municipal waters" which
can be up to 15 kilometers from the shoreline and that's where
municipalities can exercise jurisdiction.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Administrative boundaries export

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 3:58 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> What we would really need though, is something much bigger: A separate
> database of admin hierarchies, where people could - in a crowdsourced
> manner - record things like:
>
> "There is an adminlevel 2 entities called Germany"
> "It is divided into 16 exclusive adminlevel 4 entities with the
> following names: ..."
> "These 16 entities cover the area of Germany completely (no holes or sea
> areas that would be outside of one of the entities)"
> "The adminlevel 4 entity named 'Brandenburg' is divided in X adminlevel
> 6 entities..."
>
> and so on. A tree of arbitrary size where people can add and edit at will.
>

This seems exactly like the kind of data I expect Wikidata (a Wikimedia
Foundation project, spearheaded by Wikimedia Deutschland) to encode.


> Now you will say "but this tree could be generated from OpenStreetMap",
> and I grant that one could attempt to build such a tree but it will
> always be faulty and reflect the current brokenness of geometries in
> OSM. One could *start* with an OSM-generated tree, but after that, the
> tree must be kept separate. People should be able to add stuff to the
> tree even when it is not in OpenStreetMap - "there should be an
> adminlevel 8 boundary called so-and-so". A regularly-running process
>
would then compare the tree to OpenStreetMap, and generate error reports
> that can be presented visually: [...]
>
> I would expect the tree to be much more stable than the
> data in OSM. Most of all, the tree could be worked on independently,
> even by people unfamiliar with OSM. Of course the tree could link to OSM
> objects but these links would regularly be checked and perhaps even
> changed by the automated comparison system.
>

If this tree database will only be compared to OSM then it should be OK to
start it as a derivative of the OSM database (inheriting the ODbL license).
However, we lose the ability to compare this with other similar databases
like the Global Administrative Areas database (http://www.gadm.org/) as
another form of QA due to the license incompatibility.

I think it would be better if the tree were started in Wikidata (which is
CC0-licensed) or as a separate project released to the public domain or
CC0- or PDDL-licensed.

Eugene
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Re: [OSM-talk] osm2pgsql multipolygon parsing

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 4:51 AM, Peter Wendorff
wrote:

> IMHO it's clear:
> - a tag on a way describes that way, if it's a closed way and the tag is
> describing an area, the tag matches the complete area inside that polygon.
> - if a way is outer of a multipolygon and there are tags on the way,
> these tags nevertheless describe the whole area, including all holes, as
> it's still a tag on the (simple) polygon.
> - if a way is inner of a multipolygon and there are tags on the way,
> these tags describe the polygon described by this way.
> - tags on the multipolygon relation describe the area represented by the
> relation - that is all outer polygons minus the inner polygons.
>

I agree that this is a good way of tagging multipolygons.

Unfortunately, many people don't tag multipolygons in this way. I've seen
people add building=yes to an outer way of a building with holes even
though there's a multipolygon relation with that tag already. It's most
likely that these people are not familiar with relations and they see an
outer way with no building=yes tag and decided to "helpfully" tag it.

Because of this, a more complicated interpretation of tags, such as
Frederik's, leads to less breakage (think rendering) and is more in line
with people's expectations.
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM History Viewer

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

OSM History Viewer has been like that for almost 2 weeks now.

This has been reported on the service's official (?) bug reporting system
by somebody 10 days ago but there has been no response:
https://bugs.cdauth.eu/index.php?do=details&task_id=80&project=2



On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 7:28 AM, Mike Thompson  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Does anyone know when the OSM History Viewer (
> http://osmhv.openstreetmap.de) might be back up?  I have been receiving
> the following message for the last couple of hours:
>
> Service Temporarily Unavailable
>
> The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to
> maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later.
> --
> Apache/2.2.16 (Debian) Server at osmhv.openstreetmap.de Port 80
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Please test this "Native wikipedia link" - feature

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 9:00 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

>
> isn't wikidata an extract of Wikipedia and therefor doesn't provide more
> but at the most the same information than Wikipedia? What can you do with
> your approach that you can't do with the inter language links in WP?
>

Wikidata actually now powers the interlanguage links in (at least) the
English Wikipedia. It used to be that you manually added links to the other
language Wikipedias in the article body, but these have all been removed
and the interwiki links is now provided through Wikidata.

So "inter language links in WP" = Wikidata.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Videos of State of the Map US are up!

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Hi Alex,

Thanks for bringing these videos up. These will be great for those among us
who cannot attend.

How about the slides of the presentations? Will these become available too?

Thanks,
Eugene


On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Alex Barth  wrote:

> We have just finished video uploads from this weekend’s State of the Map
> US sessions. This year we've made an effort to have solid video streaming
> and recording with the intention to connect more people around the ideas
> shared at the conference.
>
> If you couldn’t make it to San Francisco or if you missed a particular
> session, catch up on the State of the Map US 2013 session video page or
> find videos linked directly from the conference schedule.
>
> http://openstreetmap.us/2013/06/sotmus-videos/
>
> We're also hoping that if you're a speaker we could do you a service by
> having a video of your talk. The sessions were amazing, a big thank you to
> everyone who took the time to create a presentation. I'd like to encourage
> everyone to share their videos in their own blog post / tweets / mails to
> friends to just further spread these ideas.
>
> Let's use these conferences to get together and talk more with each other
> / write more code with each other and more. There's tons of stuff to be
> figured out in OpenStreetMap.
>
> I walk away inspired. Thank you for everyone coming out.
>
> --
> Alex Barth
> Secretary
> OpenStreetMap United States Inc.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-ca] Tag for Tim Horton's

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 5:11 AM, Andrew MacKinnon wrote:

> is there such a thing as a cafe that is not a coffee shop?
>
Yes, if it is a tea shop.
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Re: [OSM-talk] List: Densely Mapped Areas

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 3:51 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Someone said that taking the area into account should improve the results
> for Indonesia; either I did something wrong ior the opposite is the case -
> Indonesia featured at #23 before and has now dropped completely off the
> list.
>

That was me. I was mistaken. For a given zoom level in Mercator projection,
a tile in an equatorial area shows more real-world area than in a more
northern or southern latitudes.

I actually confused the land area with scale: a tile in an equatorial area
has a smaller scale than in a more northern or southern latitudes. So land
area is inversely proportional to map scale.
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Re: [OSM-talk] List: Densely Mapped Areas

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Since the list provided ranks the metatiles in terms of the number of
nodes, It might be better to also normalize the number of nodes with the
area covered by the z16 metatile. A tile far from the equator covers more
area than a tile near the equator. For example, a z16 tile in Helsinki
covers around 4 times the area as a z16 tile in Singapore. If we normalize
the list, it would make the efforts of the Indonesian mappers much more
impressive.


On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 9:00 PM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
>I've made an updatd list of densely mapped areas in OSM.
>
> http://fred.dev.openstreetmap.**org/density/
>
> You might be surprised to hear that the top four most densely mapped areas
> in OSM are in Cameroon!
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM relation ID property in Wikidata

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 2:26 AM, Tobias Knerr  wrote:

> On 06.05.2013 18:54, Peter Wendorff wrote:
> > Do they have something like a persistent ID in wikidata, yet?
>
> I think the Wikidata page title - something like Q35525 - is intended to
> be rather stable. Of course there are sometimes problems, such as
> duplicates or interwiki conflicts, that make it necessary to change
> items. But unlike unlike OSM, Wikidata actually cares about providing an
> ID for a distinct semantic entity.
>
> In my opinion, this is a major reason to link to Wikidata using OSM
> tags, and not the other way round. (Improving our data model in that
> regard doesn't seem realistic in the short term.)
>

For those who are not on the tagging mailing list, the wikidata=* tag has
been proposed[1], and discussed on the tagging mailing list starting late
February 2013[2]. Based on my assessment of the discussion, there doesn't
seem to be a clamor to add the wikidata=* tag to replace or even as an
additional tag to the wikipedia=* tag. The concern is that wikipedia=* is
much more easier for the average mapper to grasp than the wikidata=* tag.

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Wikidata
[2]
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2013-February/013077.html
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM relation ID property in Wikidata

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 3:33 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> On 03.05.2013 18:15, Svavar Kjarrval wrote:
>
>> Just wanted to notify those who didn't know: There is now a property
>> (P402) in use in Wikidata to link the corresponding entry to a relation
>> ID in OSM.
>>
>
> This is a very bad idea and should not be used.
>

I assume you think this is bad because OSM IDs are not stable with respect
to the objects they represent?

It seems this was discussed by the Wikidata users when there was a very
recent proposal to delete this OSM ID property (P402):
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Properties_for_deletion#Property:P402

The consensus was that--at least for place relations which are the target
of the said property--OSM relation IDs are stable enough and any changes in
IDs can be easily rectified. Wikidata is a wiki after all.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Imagery Boundary?

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 11:35 PM, ingalls wrote:

> Hey guys came across a really weird way.
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/104974280
>
> Not sure exactly what it is supposed to represent? Is it showing where
> bing has high quality imagery? And secondly can I remove it!
>


In my community, we used to trace such outlines and add them to the OSM
database but as you noticed, it really doesn't belong in OSM.

So we deleted the ways from the OSM database and instead came up with a
separate tool: https://github.com/OSMPH/Imagery_Coverage_Map
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Re: [OSM-talk] Jump in to SotM 2013

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 5:55 AM, Rob Nickerson wrote:

> === Get Involved ===
> Jump in to SotM 2013 by helping us spread the message. We would like to
> translate our theme of "Change" into as many languages as possible. Please
> send your translations of the word "Change" to me (or this list) and I will
> collate them and share the results on stateofthemap.org
>
> A couple of rules:
>
> 1. We are looking for translations of "Change" the noun (as in "we saw *a
> change* in the number of OpenStreetMap contributors") rather than the verb
> (as in "*to change* an OSM tag") - Sorry if that makes no sense with both
> words being the same in English, hopefully all will become clearer as
> people start to post translations.
> 2. No machine translation / no google translate.
>

(Sorry for the earlier empty reply. I accidentally clicked on Send.)

This page should help: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/change#Translations
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Re: [OSM-talk] Jump in to SotM 2013

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 5:55 AM, Rob Nickerson wrote:

> Hello,
>
> === Welcome to SotM 2013 ===
> It is with great pleasure that I welcome you to State of the Map 2013.
> This year's annual conference for all OpenStreetMap contributors and users
> will be held in Birmingham, United Kingdom, on the weekend of 6th-8th
> September. The organising team is working to ensure that this is the best
> SotM conference to date, with one of our key aims being to promote early
> involvement right across the OpenStreetMap community. It is with that in
> mind that I have the delight in revealing this years theme and introducing
> the first area in which you can get involved!
>
> This year's theme is "Change".
>
> It seems incredible that is was 6 years ago that we held the first SotM
> conference. The time has gone so quickly and I believe that this is due to
> the rapid speed in which OpenStreetMap has grown and developed. In 2007 at
> the first conference, we had 10,000 registered OSM members, now there are
> over 1.05 million of us. Between us we have increased the number of map
> nodes from 7million in 2007 to a staggering 1.8 billion. Thank you!
>
> So what does "Change" look like as a theme? We will use the conference to
> explore how OSM has changed, both in the community and in the type of data
> we are creating (and now maintaining). You will see how the tools have
> changed and get insights into future developments. We will also look at how
> OpenStreetMap's huge success is changing the industry (not just the map
> industry, but also the impact on humanitarian organisations, charities,
> journalism, large and small companies, freelance workers and even
> government). Finally we will be peering into our crystal ball that is OSM
> 2014 and beyond.
>
>
> === Get Involved ===
> Jump in to SotM 2013 by helping us spread the message. We would like to
> translate our theme of "Change" into as many languages as possible. Please
> send your translations of the word "Change" to me (or this list) and I will
> collate them and share the results on stateofthemap.org
>
> A couple of rules:
>
> 1. We are looking for translations of "Change" the noun (as in "we saw *a
> change* in the number of OpenStreetMap contributors") rather than the verb
> (as in "*to change* an OSM tag") - Sorry if that makes no sense with both
> words being the same in English, hopefully all will become clearer as
> people start to post translations.
> 2. No machine translation / no google translate.
>
> That's it!
>
> Welcome to State of the Map 2013,
>
> RobJN (on behalf of the organising team)
> stateofthemap.org
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Missing attribution : Guardian Data and OII use OSM

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:20 PM, pavithran  wrote:

> On 15 February 2013 19:35, Joseph Reeves  wrote:
> > Looking at the images, I can see attribution in the bottom left corners.
> > It's a little small, but it's there:
>
> Ofcourse its there, anyone taking a screenshot , unless if it is
> intentionally removed . What I am asking was a mention in the text .
>

Why do you think there should be a mention in the text? The OSM license
does not say that the attribution has to be in plain text.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Recent edits in the wiki / Trademark issue

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

You mentioned cleaning up the Wiki and the Help Q&A site.

What about mailing list archives? Will the OSMF then start deleting emails
if they contain Google Maps links?


On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 2:41 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:

>
> Because of the time constraints the removal of the google links is quite
> rough, however most (as in all except a handful)  of the links were either
> old, outdated, or/and unused, as for example essentially all links to old
> errors in Google maps based on TeleAtlas data, which should have been
> deleted years ago. Naturally you can add back sanitized links, however I
> would in general question why we would want to use google data in our own
> documentation in the first place (that is naturally a different discussion).
>
> As for the rest Jeff Meyer has summarized it nicely.
>
> Simon
>
> Am 01.02.2013 18:57, schrieb Ilya Zverev:
>
> > Hi. Regardless of that trademark business, I've checked Simon's edits
> and they mostly consist of removing links to google maps, which contain
> empty "geocode" parameter and them (and many other redundant parameters
> that editors didn't bother to omit). Some of the edits are quite funny, for
> example,
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Essex_Way&diff=prev&oldid=861689(removed
>  a link to display kml with google maps).
> >
> > I cannot understand why links to google maps have become prohibited in
> our wiki, but there are probably one or two meaningful edits and lots of
> what can be called vandalism. For example, cleaning "Copyright Easter Eggs"
> pages from links to mentioned easter eggs.
> >
> > So, I vote for 1) reverting all those edits; 2) explaining in detail
> what is prohibited (what words, which links etc.) and what is not; 3)
> editing wiki more thoroughly, so every edit could be understood.
> >
> >
> > IZ
> >
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Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik at zoom=19

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 7:10 AM, Kai Krueger  wrote:

> There are by now enough densely mapped areas, where a z19 level offers a
> real advantage. At z18 too much information gets dropped in the
> decluttering
> process.
>
> At the moment, when I want to e.g. check if  something is already mapped in
> a densely mapped area, I need to switch into Potlatch where I can zoom to
> z19 (and beyond). However, if everyone does that, I suspect that would use
> up much more resources than offering a z19 rendered map.
>
> Therefore imho, offering z19 would be possible and a net benefit to OSM,
> but
> that is obviously for the server admin team to decide.
>

+1

If mappers in Europe and North America think that z18 doesn't show enough
detail, then imagine what it must be like for mappers who are located
nearer to the equator. Because of the Mercator projection we use, higher
latitudes have a larger scale than places near the equator.

For instance, here's Helsinki at z17: http://osm.org/go/0xPL4uhLl-

And here's Singapore at z18: http://osm.org/go/4IPzwvhUC--

While both maps are at different zoom levels, both show the same scale (see
scale at lower left of the map).

If it is practical to bump up the maximum zoom level to z19, then more
places near the equator can enjoy the higher detail that mappers in Europe
and North America already enjoy now.

(Of course we can all render our own maps, but you get the point.)
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Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Farmland not 'Light' enough?

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

I prefer landuse areas to be darker than the default light gray background
color in the Standard rendering. This makes it obvious (especially on LCD
screens where lightness/luminance of colors vary depending on the viewing
angle) that there is a tagged area there.

You could make the case that the farmuse area could be lighter than it is
now and/or use a different hue than brown, but don't make it as light as
the default background color.


On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 6:18 AM, Rob Nickerson wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> (full text and images at
> https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B6J5ZA1hu93bYm9IWXdlVHM1N1U )
>
> Recently landuse=farmland (or simply landuse=farm) has been added to
> fields near me. This has led to a discussion about how the rendering
> 'looks' with some arguing that it doesn't look that good. I believe that
> this may be due to the shade of colour used – specifically the farmland
> 'brown' is not as luminous as the default 'grey' (actually I think it
> 'lightness' rather than 'luminosity' that matters to the human eye but I
> got very confused when searching the two).
>
>  Consider the image below, showing current rendering:
>
> https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B6J5ZA1hu93bZDBTN2dZZkpDenc
>
> On the left we have farmland tagged. The 'brown' has a Lightness value of
> 83 percent (luminance of 85%). Compare this to the default canvas 'grey',
> which has 93 percent Lightness (and 93 percent luminance).
>
>  Now consider the following (and please check your screen calibration at
> http://www.photofriday.com/calibrate.php ). I have taken the farmland
> 'brown' and raised it's Lightness to the same 93 percent as the default
> 'grey' (that is, I have left the Hue and Saturation the same):
>
> https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B6J5ZA1hu93bSzk5NDZVMm5GZkE
>
> In this final image, I have adjusted the Hue and Saturation to provide
> more of a 'green':
>
> https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B6J5ZA1hu93bZXhzdVJMVU44X2M
>
> What are your thoughts? Which do you prefer? Have I gone too 'light' with
> the change and should some value in-between be used instead? Am I barking
> up the wrong tree?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Rob
>
>  Note: To focus discussion I want to avoid the argument that some people
> see farmland as the default and therefore it does not need to be tagged –
> it is a legitimate land-use tag and if people want to tag it then let them.
>
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