Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 01:43:41PM +0200, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > Hi > > On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 10:59:53PM +0200, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > > >> > I had a quick 10 Minute Look at Mapillary and i have found 10s of > >> > examples of separate way although no physical barrier.  > >> > > >>

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Fri, 11 Oct 2019, 22:00 Peter Elderson, wrote: > But where pedestrian crossing is not allowed at all, as in the case I > described, two ways tagging does not give this routing problem. > No, but it's again not the only solution: the information that crossing the road isn't permitted can also

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

But where pedestrian crossing is not allowed at all, as in the case I described, two ways tagging does not give this routing problem. These roads are not for pedestrians, there is no sidewalk, and if there is a separate footway or cycleway it is physically separated and cyclists/pedestrians

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Fri, 11 Oct 2019, 11:21 Snusmumriken, wrote: > > That tag is about lane changing, I don't see how it could be applied to > my example > If i understand the wiki page correctly, lanes=2 lanes:forward=1 lanes:backward=1 change:lanes:forward=not_left change:lanes:backward=not_left would mean

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

Then you wouldn’t tag separate carriageways on that particular way. In my country, lots of roads have carriageways separated by two lines with a green paint band of 1 m in between. I understand this is a type of european lining. Sometimes there is grass in between for a stretch, or vertical

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 5:21 AM Snusmumriken wrote: > My assumption is that pedestrian routing engine would stick to > sidewalks and crossings and not to tell the pedestrian to cross a > street where there is no crossing. The individual pedestrian can of > course make up his own mind what

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

11 Oct 2019, 14:59 by pelder...@gmail.com: > > >> Op 11 okt. 2019 om 11:22 heeft Philip Barnes het >> volgende geschreven: >> >> Not just the driver. Routing software can be used to determine which vehicle >> can give the quickest response. >> >> Phil (trigpoint) >> > > I would never trust

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

> Op 11 okt. 2019 om 11:22 heeft Philip Barnes het > volgende geschreven: > > Not just the driver. Routing software can be used to determine which vehicle > can give the quickest response. > > Phil (trigpoint) I would never trust OSM data for emergency routing or any purpose requiring

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 13:47 +0200, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > Redefining stuff without very, very good > reason seems to be a bad idea. I don't see it as any kind of redefinition. I've been mapping like that for many years. And as Florian Lohoff pointed out, so has many others also.

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 5:38 AM Snusmumriken wrote: > On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 11:21 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > > > > Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 11:10 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < > > snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: > > > It is up to the driver. I think he can ignore most of the traffic >

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

11 Oct 2019, 12:38 by snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com: > On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 11:21 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > >> >> >> Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 11:10 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < >> snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: >> > It is up to the driver. I think he can ignore most of the traffic

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

11 Oct 2019, 13:23 by f...@zz.de: > Hi > > On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 10:59:53PM +0200, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > >> > I had a quick 10 Minute Look at Mapillary and i have found 10s of >> > examples of separate way although no physical barrier.  >> > >> It can be easily done for any kind of

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

11 Oct 2019, 13:04 by snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com: > On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 12:48 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > >> Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 12:39 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < >> snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: >> > Just to be clear, I'm not advocating that legal separation MUST >> >

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

Hi On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 10:59:53PM +0200, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > I had a quick 10 Minute Look at Mapillary and i have found 10s of > > examples of separate way although no physical barrier.  > > > It can be easily done for any kind of mistake. > > Have you tried comparing it to split

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 12:48 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 12:39 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < > snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: > > Just to be clear, I'm not advocating that legal separation MUST > > lead to > > way separation. Just that a rule that wouldn't allow it

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 12:39 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: > Just to be clear, I'm not advocating that legal separation MUST lead to > way separation. Just that a rule that wouldn't allow it would be a very > bad rule. What makes most sense based upon the ground

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 11:21 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 11:10 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < > snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: > > It is up to the driver. I think he can ignore most of the traffic > > laws > > in the cause of getting as fast and as safe to where

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 11:32 +0200, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > > 11 Oct 2019, 11:19 by snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com: > > My assumption is that pedestrian routing engine would stick to > > sidewalks and crossings and not to tell the pedestrian to cross a > > street where there is no crossing.

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

11 Oct 2019, 11:22 by colin.sm...@xs4all.nl: > > On 2019-10-11 11:09, Snusmumriken wrote: > > >> It is up to the driver. I think he can ignore most of the traffic laws >> in the cause of getting as fast and as safe to where he needs to go. So >> he would use his own judgment and not so much

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

11 Oct 2019, 11:09 by snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com: > On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 10:57 +0200, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > >> >> >> >> 11 Oct 2019, 10:50 by snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com: >> > On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 10:31 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: >> > > Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 10:26 Uhr

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

11 Oct 2019, 11:19 by snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com: > My assumption is that pedestrian routing engine would stick to > sidewalks and crossings and not to tell the pedestrian to cross a > street where there is no crossing. The individual pedestrian can of > course make up his own mind what

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On 2019-10-11 11:09, Snusmumriken wrote: > It is up to the driver. I think he can ignore most of the traffic laws > in the cause of getting as fast and as safe to where he needs to go. So > he would use his own judgment and not so much what a routing engine > tells him what he can do. That may

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

Not just the driver. Routing software can be used to determine which vehicle can give the quickest response. Phil (trigpoint) On Friday, 11 October 2019, Snusmumriken wrote: > On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 10:57 +0200, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > > > > > > > 11 Oct 2019, 10:50 by

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 11:10 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: > It is up to the driver. I think he can ignore most of the traffic laws > in the cause of getting as fast and as safe to where he needs to go. So > he would use his own judgment and not so much what a

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Thu, 2019-10-10 at 19:53 +0200, Markus wrote: > On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 at 16:10, Snusmumriken > wrote: > > For example if you try to create a routing advice for a car > > journey. > > Let's say that the journey starts at Main street number 10 and that > > Main street is a two way street where the

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 10:57 +0200, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > > > 11 Oct 2019, 10:50 by snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com: > > On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 10:31 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 10:26 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < > > > snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: > >

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

11 Oct 2019, 10:50 by snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com: > On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 10:31 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > >> Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 10:26 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < >> snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: >> > A level strip of grass can be crossed by any car. With a big SUV >> >

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

11 Oct 2019, 10:31 by dieterdre...@gmail.com: > Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 10:26 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken <> > snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com > >: > >> >> A level strip of grass can be crossed by any car. With a big SUV you >> can cross curbs and so on.

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 10:31 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 10:26 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < > snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: > > A level strip of grass can be crossed by any car. With a big SUV > > you > > can cross curbs and so on. It's just a questions about how

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Friday, 11 October 2019, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 10:26 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < > snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: > > > > > A level strip of grass can be crossed by any car. With a big SUV you > > can cross curbs and so on. It's just a questions about how big

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 10:26 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: > > A level strip of grass can be crossed by any car. With a big SUV you > can cross curbs and so on. It's just a questions about how big your car > is and the nature of the physical separation. But I don't

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Thu, 2019-10-10 at 17:57 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > Am Do., 10. Okt. 2019 um 16:10 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < > snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: > > For example if you try to create a routing advice for a car > > journey. > > Let's say that the journey starts at Main street

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 at 15:50, Vɑdɪm wrote: > Florian Lohoff-2 wrote > > On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 08:38:28AM +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: > > Mapping large, multi-lane roads with a "do not cross line" in the > > middle as single line requires 4-5 times the number of turn > > restrictions. These are

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 5:22 AM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 10/10/19 20:46, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > Am Do., 10. Okt. 2019 um 08:40 Uhr schrieb Frederik Ramm < > frede...@remote.org>: > >> The original mapper claims that using two separate oneway=yes ways is >> clearer and

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

10 Oct 2019, 16:29 by f...@zz.de: > On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 08:38:28AM +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> DWG has been asked to mediate in a user dispute in Germany where a local >> mapper has chosen to represent a busy four-lane primary highway (two >> lanes in each direction, and a

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 07:53:39PM +0200, Markus wrote: > > That's not true. There's another way to tell routers that it is > illegal to change lanes: by adding that information to the highway=* > way. There's already a tag for this: change:langes [1] (> 90 000 > uses). > > While mapping

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 at 16:10, Snusmumriken wrote: > > For example if you try to create a routing advice for a car journey. > Let's say that the journey starts at Main street number 10 and that > Main street is a two way street where the two directions are legally > separated. Let's say that

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

Am Do., 10. Okt. 2019 um 16:10 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: > For example if you try to create a routing advice for a car journey. > Let's say that the journey starts at Main street number 10 and that > Main street is a two way street where the two directions are

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

Florian Lohoff-2 wrote > On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 08:38:28AM +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Mapping large, multi-lane roads with a "do not cross line" in the > middle as single line requires 4-5 times the number of turn > restrictions. These are number i am estimating from my own experience >

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 08:38:28AM +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Hi, > > DWG has been asked to mediate in a user dispute in Germany where a local > mapper has chosen to represent a busy four-lane primary highway (two > lanes in each direction, and a double continuous line painted in the > middle

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Thu, 2019-10-10 at 15:51 +0200, Peter Elderson wrote: > Why would it be inferior? Visually, you mean? Or would navigational > problems arise? There already exist roads with some parts physically > separated halves and other parts combined halves, does that give > problems? > > Mvg Peter

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

Why would it be inferior? Visually, you mean? Or would navigational problems arise? There already exist roads with some parts physically separated halves and other parts combined halves, does that give problems? Mvg Peter Elderson > Op 10 okt. 2019 om 15:01 heeft Snusmumriken > het volgende

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Thu, 2019-10-10 at 08:38 +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Hi, > > DWG has been asked to mediate in a user dispute in Germany where a > local > mapper has chosen to represent a busy four-lane primary highway (two > lanes in each direction, and a double continuous line painted in the > middle which

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

10 Oct 2019, 10:44 by f...@zz.de: > And i see fit in the original "Conventions" document [1] which terms > it as "Divided highways should be drawn as separate ways." for divided > highways. > First - "should" is a relaxed term which is no MUST and second - > it does not make any statement about

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 1:38 AM Frederik Ramm wrote: > Personally I believe that "physical division => separate ways; no > physical division => shared way" is the standard in OSM, or perhaps at > least the "rule of thumb". But (since people in the German discussion > have more or less claimed

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

Am Do., 10. Okt. 2019 um 12:41 Uhr schrieb Andrew Harvey < andrew.harv...@gmail.com>: > That sounds very similar to > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:overtaking which let's you > determine when you can cross that dividing line when tagged as a single > undivided way. > overtaking is a

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 at 21:23, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 10/10/19 20:46, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > Am Do., 10. Okt. 2019 um 08:40 Uhr schrieb Frederik Ramm < > frede...@remote.org>: > >> The original mapper claims that using two separate oneway=yes ways is >> clearer and

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On 10/10/19 20:46, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Am Do., 10. Okt. 2019 um 08:40 Uhr schrieb Frederik Ramm mailto:frede...@remote.org>>: The original mapper claims that using two separate oneway=yes ways is clearer and easier, as it does away with the need for turn restrictions at

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

Am Do., 10. Okt. 2019 um 08:40 Uhr schrieb Frederik Ramm < frede...@remote.org>: > The original mapper claims that using two separate oneway=yes ways is > clearer and easier, as it does away with the need for turn restrictions > at junctions. this is an interesting aspect: why do we need turn

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

Hi Frederik, hi everyone, On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 at 08:40, Frederik Ramm wrote: > > The question is basically two-fold; one, what are the established > standards and rules concerning this situation, and two, in how far is it > acceptable to deviate from these standards if a local mapper thinks it >

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 08:38:28AM +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Hi, > > DWG has been asked to mediate in a user dispute in Germany where a local > mapper has chosen to represent a busy four-lane primary highway (two > lanes in each direction, and a double continuous line painted in the > middle

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

Asking OSM mappers if they have "strict standards" on this issue is chasing a fantasy, IMHO. We discussed this in our local Thailand mapping forum and AFAIK, it wasn't resolved. In one example, a five-lane highway with no physical barrier and the "fifth lane" painted with big yellow stripes, the

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

10 Oct 2019, 08:38 by frede...@remote.org: > The question is basically two-fold; one, what are the established > standards and rules concerning this situation > Splitting road on physical separation seems to be a standard. And painted line is not considered as physical separation. Among