Re: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands

[Cyclone Wehner]

Maybe they can do a nice skin care range for the ladies who spend too much
time in clubs. And a perfume would be nice...
No! An Axis thong ain't right at all!

 they had a whole heap of art stuff there that you couldn't buy. disk
 union basically stocks the same merchandise as the submerge store and I
 worked out it was cheaper to buy from submerge

 yeah record bag would be cute, maybe some badges. I draw the line at
 axis/hello kitty underwear tho 

Re: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands

[David Gillies]

Cyclone Wehner wrote:
 Maybe they can do a nice skin care range for the ladies who spend too much
 time in clubs. And a perfume would be nice...
 No! An Axis thong ain't right at all!

How's about a Southern Outpost one?

http://www.cafepress.com/so612.5737450

:-P

RE: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands

[Melody Ng]

are you suggesting that the SO thong is 'right'? ;) 

-Original Message-
From: David Gillies [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, 24 June 2005 10:53
To: Cyclone Wehner
Cc: 313 Detroit
Subject: Re: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands

Cyclone Wehner wrote:
 Maybe they can do a nice skin care range for the ladies who spend too 
 much time in clubs. And a perfume would be nice...
 No! An Axis thong ain't right at all!

How's about a Southern Outpost one?

http://www.cafepress.com/so612.5737450

:-P

##
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Re: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands

[Michael . Elliot-Knight]

er yeah, it was a joke - you're supposed to laugh at it -

sheesh

MEK


   
 David Bate
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 thms.com  To 
   
 06/22/05 12:08 PM  cc 
   313@hyperreal.org   
   Subject 
   Re: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands
   
   
   
   
   
   




[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



shouldn't KMS be marketing the hoover - after all Kevin did invent it or
are you saying that Metroplex sucks?

;)


Kevin definitely did NOT invent the hoover.   Talk to Roland.  Who ever
programmed
that patch on the Alpha Juno series, is the one that invented it.

Kevin's the one that made it famous initially but it definitely
existed before Kevin got it.



Cheers,

Dave

Re: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands

[Cyclone Wehner]

Man, why y'all so cynical (though you all make me laugh with the 
suggestions, esp Alex). I think it's a good thing to merchandise... Label
owners need to be inventive to generate funds for labels with the drop in
music sales and Axis is a cult label.

--
From: David Bate [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 3:08 AM


 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



shouldn't KMS be marketing the hoover - after all Kevin did invent it or
are you saying that Metroplex sucks?

;)


 Kevin definitely did NOT invent the hoover.   Talk to Roland.  Who ever
 programmed
 that patch on the Alpha Juno series, is the one that invented it.

 Kevin's the one that made it famous initially but it definitely
 existed before Kevin got it.



 Cheers,

 Dave

RE: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands

[Melody Ng]

I think part of the reason why we're all so cynical is because axis is
so serious about it?

I wonder if him living in Japan plays any part of the influence in Axis
merchandising. Japanese fans always get a wider range of merchandise and
when I read their mags I just have to laugh at all the stuff that's
'exclusive to Japan' 

I read somewhere that ellen alien is going to launch her own fashion
label... even tho her site already stocks some (expensive) clothing etc


-Original Message-
From: Cyclone Wehner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, 23 June 2005 12:15
To: 313 Detroit
Subject: Re: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands

Man, why y'all so cynical (though you all make me laugh with the
suggestions, esp Alex). I think it's a good thing to merchandise...
Label owners need to be inventive to generate funds for labels with the
drop in music sales and Axis is a cult label.

--
From: David Bate [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 3:08 AM


 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



shouldn't KMS be marketing the hoover - after all Kevin did invent it 
or are you saying that Metroplex sucks?

;)


 Kevin definitely did NOT invent the hoover.   Talk to Roland.  Who
ever
 programmed
 that patch on the Alpha Juno series, is the one that invented it.

 Kevin's the one that made it famous initially but it definitely 
 existed before Kevin got it.



 Cheers,

 Dave

##
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solely for the addressee(s) and may be confidential and/or privileged.
If you have received this electronic mail in error, please delete it
from your system and kindly notify the sender. If you are not the
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##

RE: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands

[Thomas D. Cox, Jr.]

-- Original Message --
From: Melody Ng [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I think part of the reason why we're all so cynical is because
axis is
so serious about it?

i like inventive mechandise. i always wanted a pair of those
metalheadz shoes but they were crazy money due to the exchange
rate. sweat bands are not my kind of thing, but i thought UR's
bandanas were cool. im a big dork so i have tons of label shirts
(for all genres, not just dance music!) and buttons and patches
and whatnot. axis isnt even my favorite jeff mills stuff so im not
that into their stuff but i still gotta say that jeff always finds
ways to get people talking about him and his projects! 

tom 


andythepooh.com


 
   

Re: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands

[Cyclone Wehner]

Maybe. Though I think Jeff has a gentle sense of humour... I don't think he
has a residency in Japan, just plays there a lot. The Japanese market is
amazing though. In one store in Shibuya there's a whole wall devoted to the
Detroit fest.
I would like an Axis Hello Kitty range though... with sweatbands.
Kitty playing records with headphones. Could be cute. ;)



 I think part of the reason why we're all so cynical is because axis is
 so serious about it?

 I wonder if him living in Japan plays any part of the influence in Axis
 merchandising. Japanese fans always get a wider range of merchandise and
 when I read their mags I just have to laugh at all the stuff that's
 'exclusive to Japan'

 I read somewhere that ellen alien is going to launch her own fashion
 label... even tho her site already stocks some (expensive) clothing etc

RE: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands

[Melody Ng]

isnt' that shibuya store disk union? there wans't THAT much stuff. of
course maybe I was expecting a lot more ;) In hindsight I should have
taken a picture of it but I was too busy buying records :P

they already had a hello kitty mini ipod (and a doraemon one!) so why
not have an axis hello kitty... special pink edition!




-Original Message-
From: Cyclone Wehner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, 23 June 2005 12:51
To: 313 Detroit
Subject: Re: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands

Maybe. Though I think Jeff has a gentle sense of humour... I don't think
he has a residency in Japan, just plays there a lot. The Japanese market
is amazing though. In one store in Shibuya there's a whole wall devoted
to the Detroit fest.
I would like an Axis Hello Kitty range though... with sweatbands.
Kitty playing records with headphones. Could be cute. ;)



 I think part of the reason why we're all so cynical is because axis is

 so serious about it?

 I wonder if him living in Japan plays any part of the influence in 
 Axis merchandising. Japanese fans always get a wider range of 
 merchandise and when I read their mags I just have to laugh at all the

 stuff that's 'exclusive to Japan'

 I read somewhere that ellen alien is going to launch her own fashion 
 label... even tho her site already stocks some (expensive) clothing 
 etc

##
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solely for the addressee(s) and may be confidential and/or privileged.
If you have received this electronic mail in error, please delete it
from your system and kindly notify the sender. If you are not the
intended recipient you must not reproduce any part of this electronic
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##

Re: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands

[Cyclone Wehner]

Yeah it was Disk Union (thanks, I couldn't recall the name!) - there wasn't
much maybe as I raided it first. ;) He he he.
I want a Hello Kitty Axis record bag. And maybe a frisbee.

 isnt' that shibuya store disk union? there wans't THAT much stuff. of
 course maybe I was expecting a lot more ;) In hindsight I should have
 taken a picture of it but I was too busy buying records :P

 they already had a hello kitty mini ipod (and a doraemon one!) so why
 not have an axis hello kitty... special pink edition!

RE: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands

[Melody Ng]

they had a whole heap of art stuff there that you couldn't buy. disk
union basically stocks the same merchandise as the submerge store and I
worked out it was cheaper to buy from submerge

yeah record bag would be cute, maybe some badges. I draw the line at
axis/hello kitty underwear tho 

-Original Message-
From: Cyclone Wehner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, 23 June 2005 14:10
To: 313 Detroit
Subject: Re: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands

Yeah it was Disk Union (thanks, I couldn't recall the name!) - there
wasn't much maybe as I raided it first. ;) He he he.
I want a Hello Kitty Axis record bag. And maybe a frisbee.

 isnt' that shibuya store disk union? there wans't THAT much stuff. of 
 course maybe I was expecting a lot more ;) In hindsight I should have 
 taken a picture of it but I was too busy buying records :P

 they already had a hello kitty mini ipod (and a doraemon one!) so why 
 not have an axis hello kitty... special pink edition!

##
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If you have received this electronic mail in error, please delete it
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##

RE: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands

[Stoddard, Kamal]

 I draw the 
 line at axis/hello kitty underwear tho 

Why? That's soo hot.

Kamal K. Stoddard
Turner Broadcasting Systems
 

Re: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands

[alex . bond]

Is this going too far?

definitely not.

infact, this is just the beginning, I have a PD deal with ACME, and I
shall be offering domestic techno products up soon.

the KMS chopstick, Metroplex hoover, Underground Resistance Pink handbag,
Delsin dance cage  tennis racket are all things I will be looking into
producing.

If anyone is interested in a Transmat Fondue Set, please hit me up private
as these will be extremely limited edition. Strictly first come first
served.
_
- End of message text 

This e-mail is sent by the above named in
their individual, non-business capacity and
is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP.

PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP may monitor
outgoing and incoming e-mails and other
telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems. By replying
to this e-mail you give your consent to such monitoring.

Re: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands

[Stewart Caig]

 Delsin dance cage  tennis racket are all things I will be looking into
 producing.

I think a little Marsel action figure with a gyrating cage dancing pelvis
would be good too. Not that I in any way shape or form get your Marsel cage
dancing gag, but it makes me laugh all the same. We had him over at a strip
club in London and he didn't once take to the stage!

Re: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands

[marsel]

hey
dont
tell
people
everything
!

:-)


Nomorewords.net
http://nomorewords.net

Bentinckstraat 66-2
1051 GN  Amsterdam
The Netherlands
phn +31-64-499-2027
fax +31-20-486-9624
- Original Message - 
From: Stewart Caig [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 313 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands





Delsin dance cage  tennis racket are all things I will be looking into
producing.


I think a little Marsel action figure with a gyrating cage dancing pelvis
would be good too. Not that I in any way shape or form get your Marsel 
cage
dancing gag, but it makes me laugh all the same. We had him over at a 
strip

club in London and he didn't once take to the stage!

Re: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands

[Michael . Elliot-Knight]

shouldn't KMS be marketing the hoover - after all Kevin did invent it or
are you saying that Metroplex sucks?

;)

MEK


   
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 com   
To 
 06/22/05 05:23 AM 313@hyperreal.org   
cc 
   
   Subject 
   Re: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands
   
   
   
   
   
   




Is this going too far?

definitely not.

infact, this is just the beginning, I have a PD deal with ACME, and I
shall be offering domestic techno products up soon.

the KMS chopstick, Metroplex hoover, Underground Resistance Pink handbag,
Delsin dance cage  tennis racket are all things I will be looking into
producing.

If anyone is interested in a Transmat Fondue Set, please hit me up private
as these will be extremely limited edition. Strictly first come first
served.
_
- End of message text 

This e-mail is sent by the above named in
their individual, non-business capacity and
is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP.

PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP may monitor
outgoing and incoming e-mails and other
telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems. By replying
to this e-mail you give your consent to such monitoring.

Re: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands

[chad cumby]

if anyone is at the Mills gig tonight at Grant Park in Chicago, I'll be outside
selling Axis POWER Lemonade for $5 a cup.  

Refueling the elements of energy we turn to the basic fruits of our vision 
for the future.

On Wed, Jun 22, 2005 at 10:08:23AM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 shouldn't KMS be marketing the hoover - after all Kevin did invent it or
 are you saying that Metroplex sucks?
 
 ;)
 
 MEK
 

  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  com   
 To 
  06/22/05 05:23 AM 313@hyperreal.org   
 cc 

Subject 
Re: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands






 
 
 
 
 Is this going too far?
 
 definitely not.
 
 infact, this is just the beginning, I have a PD deal with ACME, and I
 shall be offering domestic techno products up soon.
 
 the KMS chopstick, Metroplex hoover, Underground Resistance Pink handbag,
 Delsin dance cage  tennis racket are all things I will be looking into
 producing.
 
 If anyone is interested in a Transmat Fondue Set, please hit me up private
 as these will be extremely limited edition. Strictly first come first
 served.
 _
 - End of message text 
 
 This e-mail is sent by the above named in
 their individual, non-business capacity and
 is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP.
 
 PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP may monitor
 outgoing and incoming e-mails and other
 telecommunications on its e-mail and
 telecommunications systems. By replying
 to this e-mail you give your consent to such monitoring.
 
 

Re: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands

[matt kane's brain]

Heh, Axis's Lemonade Stand raising money for Jeff Mills' nanotech 
immortality research.


At 11:32 AM 6/22/2005, chad cumby wrote:
if anyone is at the Mills gig tonight at Grant Park in Chicago, I'll be 
outside

selling Axis POWER Lemonade for $5 a cup.


--
/* Halley */ (Halley's comment.)
matt kane's brain
podcast | http://www.hydrogenproject.com | netradio | on-the-air
[EMAIL PROTECTED] || AIM: mkbatwerk

Re: (313) Axis Wrist Sweat Bands

[David Bate]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



shouldn't KMS be marketing the hoover - after all Kevin did invent it or
are you saying that Metroplex sucks?

;)
  

Kevin definitely did NOT invent the hoover.   Talk to Roland.  Who ever
programmed
that patch on the Alpha Juno series, is the one that invented it.

Kevin's the one that made it famous initially but it definitely
existed before Kevin got it.



Cheers,

Dave

Re: (313) Axis merchandise

[iancheshire]

i quite like it tbh, I mean why not? hold your head up high man and wear
those sandals! :)

Marco in Eukatech Records(london)was telling me he was trying to sort out
 a deal with Mills to sell that stuff in the store, and I dont think it
 would sell.

 There's no chance I'd buy any of it from any shop, I'd be way too
 embarrassed.

 Cripes, its bad enough picking up my monthly copy of razzle.
 (I have to hide that behind a copy of the guardian)

 But, who buys it?

 You can't tell me 'it's the kids' surely?


 _
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 PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP may monitor
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 telecommunications on its e-mail and
 telecommunications systems. By replying
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Re: (313) Axis Gold Edition

[Michael . Elliot-Knight]

gold plated maybe - if it was all gold then it would weigh a ton (compared
to vinyl) - so much so that it would probably slow down the motor of even a
direct drive turntable
plus gold is a soft metal and under heat it tends to bend- imagine the
grooves would not hold up very well under the friction of a stylus. You'd
probably get one play out of it if it was 100% gold.

by the picture it looks like a metal master actually
anyway - it's got all five tracks on one side which is going to reduce the
fidelity (even if you did play it)
I'm not impressed - it's a show piece

MEK



   
  Mario Atienza   
   
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:   Martin Dust [EMAIL 
PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], 
  e.es 313@hyperreal.org 
   
   cc:  
   
  07/11/04 06:17 PMSubject:  (313) Axis Gold 
Edition   

   

   




Is really Gold ???

http://www.discogs.com/release/284936

RE: (313) Axis!

[Robert Taylor]

My mate Stew got 2 copies of each - I think he shared the wealth though

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 3:22 PM
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: (313) Axis!


Hi,

Was reading this http://www.littledetroit.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4200

anyone own these 7's?

any good?

only 25 of each! that must mean they're RARE!

I like things that are rare.
_

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#
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email 
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Re: (313) Axis!

[Gary . Girard]

I got them! : )

I would describe them as quite minimal,  atmospheric ('spacey') - typical
Mills style production. I liked them anyway.

 no, I don't want to sell them  ; )



   
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   
  com  To:   313@hyperreal.org  
   
   cc:  
   
  08/07/2004 16:22 Fax to:  
   
   Subject:  (313) Axis!
   

   




Hi,

Was reading this http://www.littledetroit.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4200

anyone own these 7's?

any good?

only 25 of each! that must mean they're RARE!

I like things that are rare.
_

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Re: (313) Axis!

[alex . bond]

I got them! : )

woo!

*puts best usa voice on*

wayy to gooo Gaaarry.

so, erm, now you have these, whats the chances of you selling me that
deepspace records 7 you got?

; )

I would describe them as quite minimal,  atmospheric ('spacey') - typical
Mills style production.

nice. thanks!

Alex
_

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Re: (313) Axis!

[Gary . Girard]

Haha!

Can't help you there I'm afraid Alex.

I must have got to that Axis shop at just the right time. There was hardly
anyone in there when I walked in. 2 days later, the shop was so rammed that
you couldn't get in!



   
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   
  com  To:   313@hyperreal.org  
   
   cc:  
   
  08/07/2004 16:40 Fax to:  
   
   Subject:  Re: (313) Axis!
   

   





I got them! : )

woo!

*puts best usa voice on*

wayy to gooo Gaaarry.

so, erm, now you have these, whats the chances of you selling me that
deepspace records 7 you got?

; )

I would describe them as quite minimal,  atmospheric ('spacey') - typical
Mills style production.

nice. thanks!

Alex
_

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Re: (313) axis

[Matt MacQueen]

On Jan 15, 2004, at 5:23 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Matt McQueen would know more about it...


No offence to Matt, but I don;t think he really goes out to much in
chicago.

Atomly goes out every night0 so he would probably know better.


ouch   ;)  Rumors of my death are greatly exaggerated.

Truth be told (as weird as this is) I've gone out more in the last 2 
years then when i first moved here from michigan about 7 years ago, 
when I was going to Detroit thangs regularly and was very spoiled with 
who I could see.. i admit.. (this was also when Jay Denham still lived 
in Kalamazoo so his parties had jaw-dropping all-techno lineups too). 
And I do bump into Mr. Atomly at a few gigs now and then around town, 
but the difference is he probably knows where all the afterparties are, 
and/or he's hosting them   ;)


I don't know why i feel the need to say this but as a kneejerk 
reaction: let's see recently saw DJ Harvey, saw the last Kompakt tour 
supported by Detalles, DJ Traxx many times, DJ Hell, Plaid here I think 
3 times now, Derrick Carter many times, Ron Trent many times (twice at 
the Urban Sound Gallery loft on N. Broadway, RIP), Anthony Nicholson 
several times past and present, Osunlade, DJ Rush, Dan Bell at least 
twice, Dave Clarke, the Ghostly night in chicago with Danny Wang 
DJ+Theremin   Ectomorph live PA twice and DJ once, the Techno nights 
at Empty Bottle that Israel Vines did DIY-style (years ago now), Magda 
at Slicks, Josh Werner  Mani  Marko's  Gramaphone 'Techno Showcase' 
events (missed Peter Ford though, DANG), Metro Area twice (live  DJ), 
Common Factor, Rob Hood, Theo Parrish, Rick Wilhite, G.U., Leroy 
Burgess live (!!),  Derrick May a couple times, Carl Craig a few times 
(even back at Shelter too, RIP) and then again at Mad Bar (RIP), John 
Tejada (at Zentra, yikes), Cajmere a couple times, Dajae live, several 
of the 773 techno nights at that Irish bar on Belmont  Western... 
random ILLmeasures various weeklies at Lava Lounge and Streetside,  and 
of course the Meier brothers events like Kent originally mentioned... 
they brought James Ruskin over, Oliver Ho, etc. and many more little 
DIY things here and there.   I freely admit to being inconsistent, but 
i DO go out here.  :)   Also I funded/organized/promoted an event here 
at Subterranean a couple years ago for a deFocus tour stop with CiM 
(live PA)  Clair Focus from London and Clark Warner from Detroit, so 
I've seen that side of things too.


But as for a regular, all hard or minimal techno night here in Chicago? 
 Unlikely to happen unless it's small-ish and DIY.. so those come and 
go, but they're still around.  I'm not always the first in line for it 
cause unless I think it's an exciting DJ (young or old) who can bring 
something fresh or unique to the table. I get bored much more quickly 
now, that's my own problem though, not Chicago's.


So blah blah blah, I dove into radio as my way to contribute to the 
chicago scene... for what I like to spin I think it's probably more 
fitting that way anyway.  The downside is being tied up every friday 
night for the last few years I tend to miss a lot of shows I might 
otherwise actually go to.   BTW -- upcoming in Chicago the next few 
weeks: Morgan Geist at SmartBar again w/ Common Factor on Jan. 30th.   
And then at Empty Bottle on Feb. 5th:  Monolake w/ supporting DJ's Matt 
Mercer  Dave Siska... Wooo!


OK WAIT -- How does all this get back to Jeff Mills you ask?  [Get on 
with it ya old coot]


Regarding Kent's assessment of Mills and Chicago, IMHO I agree with his 
theory that perhaps Chicago is a place he just blends in and does his 
business and chills out in relative anonymity.   I've him DJ 5 or so 
times now ,  but never seen him in Chicago (except around town shopping 
a few times, doing the things everyone does quietly in their personal 
lives).   Frankly it doesn't bother me, the scene here for techno is 
not anything one person like Mills can expected to put on his back and 
run up the mountain with, whether there is an army willing to follow 
him or not.  It's up to everyone everywhere.  That's how DIY gets 
better...


I can see how he wouldn't feel connected to chicago techno scene (or 
whatever), that's his choice.   He never was a part of the music scene 
in the city here (like Derrick Carter was, and who behaves oppositely) 
or the gigs or promoters here or connected in any of the ways he was in 
Detroit.   I'm not apologizing for Mills, nor do I want to heap any 
more speculation on reasons why people behave they do  (there's been 
enough of that already) but i'm just saying I can understand anyone's 
desire to stay outside of the fray here.   The fray can suck.  It's 
thankless.  It's unappreciative.  It's cracked-out and depressing 
sometimes.  It's also rewarding and exciting and vibrant and 
inspiring... -- SOMETIMES. If any of you were in Jeff Mills shoes you 
could make that decision yourself, but we don't know what it TRULY 
feels like .. 

Re: (313) axis

[yussel]

not meant to be a diss Matt. It was just someone who obviously doesn't
know atomly dismissing his take on the chicago scene in favor of yours-
probably just because they know you as the 'chicago expert' or something
qually as foolish.

and don't feel bad. atomly parties harder than everyone on this list put
together (myself include these days- i'm afraid to admit)

=)



On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, Matt MacQueen wrote:

 On Jan 15, 2004, at 5:23 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Matt McQueen would know more about it...
 
  No offence to Matt, but I don;t think he really goes out to much in
  chicago.
 
  Atomly goes out every night0 so he would probably know better.

 ouch   ;)  Rumors of my death are greatly exaggerated.

 Truth be told (as weird as this is) I've gone out more in the last 2
 years then when i first moved here from michigan about 7 years ago,
 when I was going to Detroit thangs regularly and was very spoiled with
 who I could see.. i admit.. (this was also when Jay Denham still lived
 in Kalamazoo so his parties had jaw-dropping all-techno lineups too).
 And I do bump into Mr. Atomly at a few gigs now and then around town,
 but the difference is he probably knows where all the afterparties are,
 and/or he's hosting them   ;)

 I don't know why i feel the need to say this but as a kneejerk
 reaction: let's see recently saw DJ Harvey, saw the last Kompakt tour
 supported by Detalles, DJ Traxx many times, DJ Hell, Plaid here I think
 3 times now, Derrick Carter many times, Ron Trent many times (twice at
 the Urban Sound Gallery loft on N. Broadway, RIP), Anthony Nicholson
 several times past and present, Osunlade, DJ Rush, Dan Bell at least
 twice, Dave Clarke, the Ghostly night in chicago with Danny Wang
 DJ+Theremin   Ectomorph live PA twice and DJ once, the Techno nights
 at Empty Bottle that Israel Vines did DIY-style (years ago now), Magda
 at Slicks, Josh Werner  Mani  Marko's  Gramaphone 'Techno Showcase'
 events (missed Peter Ford though, DANG), Metro Area twice (live  DJ),
 Common Factor, Rob Hood, Theo Parrish, Rick Wilhite, G.U., Leroy
 Burgess live (!!),  Derrick May a couple times, Carl Craig a few times
 (even back at Shelter too, RIP) and then again at Mad Bar (RIP), John
 Tejada (at Zentra, yikes), Cajmere a couple times, Dajae live, several
 of the 773 techno nights at that Irish bar on Belmont  Western...
 random ILLmeasures various weeklies at Lava Lounge and Streetside,  and
 of course the Meier brothers events like Kent originally mentioned...
 they brought James Ruskin over, Oliver Ho, etc. and many more little
 DIY things here and there.   I freely admit to being inconsistent, but
 i DO go out here.  :)   Also I funded/organized/promoted an event here
 at Subterranean a couple years ago for a deFocus tour stop with CiM
 (live PA)  Clair Focus from London and Clark Warner from Detroit, so
 I've seen that side of things too.

 But as for a regular, all hard or minimal techno night here in Chicago?
   Unlikely to happen unless it's small-ish and DIY.. so those come and
 go, but they're still around.  I'm not always the first in line for it
 cause unless I think it's an exciting DJ (young or old) who can bring
 something fresh or unique to the table. I get bored much more quickly
 now, that's my own problem though, not Chicago's.

 So blah blah blah, I dove into radio as my way to contribute to the
 chicago scene... for what I like to spin I think it's probably more
 fitting that way anyway.  The downside is being tied up every friday
 night for the last few years I tend to miss a lot of shows I might
 otherwise actually go to.   BTW -- upcoming in Chicago the next few
 weeks: Morgan Geist at SmartBar again w/ Common Factor on Jan. 30th.
 And then at Empty Bottle on Feb. 5th:  Monolake w/ supporting DJ's Matt
 Mercer  Dave Siska... Wooo!

 OK WAIT -- How does all this get back to Jeff Mills you ask?  [Get on
 with it ya old coot]

 Regarding Kent's assessment of Mills and Chicago, IMHO I agree with his
 theory that perhaps Chicago is a place he just blends in and does his
 business and chills out in relative anonymity.   I've him DJ 5 or so
 times now ,  but never seen him in Chicago (except around town shopping
 a few times, doing the things everyone does quietly in their personal
 lives).   Frankly it doesn't bother me, the scene here for techno is
 not anything one person like Mills can expected to put on his back and
 run up the mountain with, whether there is an army willing to follow
 him or not.  It's up to everyone everywhere.  That's how DIY gets
 better...

 I can see how he wouldn't feel connected to chicago techno scene (or
 whatever), that's his choice.   He never was a part of the music scene
 in the city here (like Derrick Carter was, and who behaves oppositely)
 or the gigs or promoters here or connected in any of the ways he was in
 Detroit.   I'm not apologizing for Mills, nor do I want to heap any
 more speculation on reasons why people behave they do  (there's 

Re: (313) axis

[yussel]

i think we're all better off with Mills not representing the American
techno community.

He had what is probably the largest public forum for techno in America
(Hart Plaza) and his set was mediocre at best.






On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 - Original Message -
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  the only belief i espoused is that no one here has the right to
  condem the
  man...i don't even know him, or buy his music, but damn does he
  really owe
  anyone to play in whatever city he lives in

 I've been watching from the sidelines, but wanted to comment on what atomly 
 and a few others touched on. Mills, Derrick Carter, UR or any other artist 
 are not obligated to do anything for the community, but some artists do show 
 interest in keeping their community alive and some don't. In a music 
 community that is struggling to stay afloat, the locals personally involved 
 in the community (record shops, promoters, local djs, music lovers, etc) are 
 obviously going to take note of who is helping out.

 Nobody can speak for Mills' personal reasons for not djing in the US, but it 
 is more than that, it is his actions that show no desire to mend whatever 
 problems kept him from djing here, and no desire to keep in touch with the 
 issues affecting the changing face of the local scene. Until he proves 
 otherwise, it would be hard not to judge him as such. Nobody is saying he is 
 obligated to do anything- but by choosing to ignore the local scene, 
 regardless of the reason, he is bound to receive criticism - and the fact 
 that he does not openly discuss his reasons leaves even more room for 
 criticism..

 As mentioned, UR is a good example of a successful techno-outfit from the 
 early days that has NOT forgotten the value of the community, despite the 
 decline of the stateside techno scene. After the move to the new building 
 they set up facilities for community workshops, a new website/discussion 
 boards, still doing local shows on a regular basis, and still very vocal in 
 the ongoing community dialogue. These actions speak loudly to locals.

 I don't think Mills owes anybody anything, but knowing the state of the 
 Detroit and Chicago techno scenes, and knowing how apathetic the rest of the 
 music community is to the struggling techno community- you can see where the 
 techno community gets frustrated with the lack of support, not just from 
 Mills, but from any number of sources. Not saying he should dj 'x' amont of 
 times per year, or make specific public appearances, but any actions that 
 show a general concern are appreciated. So many american artists/djs see that 
 americans are not into dance culture, and instead of trying to address that 
 issue locally, they just pack their flight-case and head off to Europe. 
 Meanwhile, the other 99% of the community who cannot afford to follow along 
 are stuck trying to keep the local scene afloat. I don't think many people 
 hate Mills over this, but it is a sensitive issue for locals and frustrations 
 are occasionally vented when the issue comes up.

 peace,
 p

 
  - Original Message -
  From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
  Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 7:53 PM
  Subject: Re: (313) axis
 
 
  
   the man lives in chicago and people dont see him there doing
  what he's
  love
   for. if you cant understand that, maybe sit back and try ot
  open your
  mind
   and at least see things from the perspective of another instead of
   brow-beating them into taking on your own beliefs. how do you
  know these
   people wouldnt say it to his face? I know lots of people I'd go
  off on in
   person given the chance :)
  
  
  
  
   - Original Message -
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
   Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:51 PM
   Subject: Re: (313) axis
  
  
why don't people attack jeff when they meet him in person
  instead of
  kiss
a**
   
- Original Message -
From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: (313) axis
   
   
 why dont you calm down and let people speak their opinion
  without  attacking
 them.
 - Original Message -
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:32 PM
 Subject: Re: (313) axis


  From: atomly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Jeff Mills hasn't played in Chicago since 1993? despite
  livinghere
for
   years.
 
   I think artists/musicians/whatever have a responsibility
  to their
   community beyond just releasing records-- art is not created
  inside
some
   sort of a vacuum.
 
  hold up hold up...was that you i saw chillin over at ida b
  wells...oh
wait
  maybe that was cabrini green...i'm getting older i
  forget...maybe   somewhere
  over on the west side

RE: (313) axis

[Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)]

hahahahaha

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 15 January 2004 11:33 
To: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; /0; 313@hyperreal.org; atomly
Subject: RE: (313) axis


embarrassed for him for crashing mixes and distroting the system.
embarrassed for the mindless people who didn't seem to notice.
embarrassed for my friends who got wasted just to enjoy
themselves (once it was clear the music wouldn't do)
embarrassed for the out-of-towners who travelled miles for something
special
embarrassed for the soundguy who wasn't 'allowed' to make the most obvious
technical corrections to the mixer that Mills had jacked
embarrassed for this culture for continuing to hold up someone who so
clearly doesn't deserve it anymore
embarrassed for myself for never learning my lesson and continuing to
bother

fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, fool me three
times...




On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT) wrote:

 Embarassed about what?

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 14 January 2004 11:43
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: /0; 313@hyperreal.org; atomly
 Subject: Re: (313) axis


 having been disappointed (borderline embarrased) the last 3 times I've
 seen mills- i don't think you could pay me to leave the house and go see
 him.

 maybe if i was already there...

 or if everyoen i know was going, making it more of a social thing.

 On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 
 
 
  I guess its his choice
 
  exactly.
 
  I still would pay 15 bux to go see him
 
  as would I
 
  I think too many people expect too much from him or come to his shows
with
  expectations of what a Jeff Mills show is and then when he doesn't
deliver
  their preconceived notion they get in his face. I know it's happened
  because he's mentioned it on his discussion board.
 
  I don't think Detroit is under him - possibly he thinks it's behind
him,
  as in his past. Maybe there's bad memories - who the f*ck but Jeff Mills
  and those whom he's told really know so people should just let the man
be
  and go see him where he *does* play.
 
  and the high price on the limited 3x12 - well maybe he figures he has
to
  make his money NOW because maybe he figures who ever is going to buy it
  will upload it to soulseek or what ever file share they are using and
then
  everyone will have it for free.
 
  MEK
 
 
 
/0
[EMAIL PROTECTED]To:   atomly
 [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mi.net  cc:
 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject:  Re: (313) axis
01/14/04 05:20 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
  its his loss at this point.  maybe he's afraid he cant compete with the
 new
  talents coming out of detroit now.  maybe detroits under him.  I guess
its
  his choice, theres more gig opportunity than there is mills to go around
 
  even tho he still plays the same records as 3 years ago, I still would
pay
  15 bux to go see him if he could stomach a night in detroit :)
 
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: atomly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
  Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 5:49 PM
  Subject: Re: (313) axis
 
 
  
  
  
  
   Well isn't that a pompous response?
  
   No - it wasn't pompous, it was sarcastic. Crack a dictionary.
  
   Do you know when the last time Jeff Mills was hired to play in
Chicago?
  Or
   the last time he was offered to play there?
   Just because he's from Detroit or lives in Chicago doesn't obligate
him
  to
   play there - I could imagine that there *could* exist for him many
  personal
   issues with people in Detroit (or Chicago) that would cause him to say
 to
   himself - you know, self, I'd only go back to Detroit if I was given
a
   million dollars
  
   I think artists/musicians/whatever have a responsibility to their
   community beyond just releasing records--
  
   As several people have stated - Jeff does give back to his community -
 he
   just doesn't do it in the public eye for loads of attention or to get
 the
   ok from people like yourself. It's called being humble.
  
   but instead is essentially plundering and pilfering
   whatever he can from the apparently willing fans.
  
   I'd still like to know what you think you are personally being robbed
 of.
   You've seen him at a bar - are you pissed because he's relaxing
instead
  of
   DJing?
  
   I've known many DJs and artists who live in Minneapolis but don't play
   here. They prefer to play in Europe or other cities because they get a
   better response and they like to keep the city they live in as a sort
of
   quiet retreat from where they perform.
  
   makes sense to me
   MEK
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 atomly
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
  313@hyperreal.org
 m

RE: (313) axis

[Gary . Girard]

It's hard to imagine Mills being that bad. I would say don't give up, give
him another chance if you get the opportunity.

If you catch him on the right night he'll blow you away with his mixing.
I've experienced myself at both Lost  Sonar.
You don't get a reputation like Mills has for mixing badly  distorting
systems everywhere you go.

Risk being a fool once more  ;o)



 
Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Blackman, Ryan
ch.eu.com  (UKEKT) [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]  
   cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 
/0 [EMAIL PROTECTED],
16/01/2004 09:01313@hyperreal.org, atomly 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Fax to:  
 
   Subject: RE: (313) axis  
 

 




hahahahaha

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 15 January 2004 11:33
To: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; /0; 313@hyperreal.org; atomly
Subject: RE: (313) axis


embarrassed for him for crashing mixes and distroting the system.
embarrassed for the mindless people who didn't seem to notice.
embarrassed for my friends who got wasted just to enjoy
themselves (once it was clear the music wouldn't do)
embarrassed for the out-of-towners who travelled miles for something
special
embarrassed for the soundguy who wasn't 'allowed' to make the most obvious
technical corrections to the mixer that Mills had jacked
embarrassed for this culture for continuing to hold up someone who so
clearly doesn't deserve it anymore
embarrassed for myself for never learning my lesson and continuing to
bother

fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, fool me three
times...




On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT) wrote:

 Embarassed about what?

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 14 January 2004 11:43
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: /0; 313@hyperreal.org; atomly
 Subject: Re: (313) axis


 having been disappointed (borderline embarrased) the last 3 times I've
 seen mills- i don't think you could pay me to leave the house and go see
 him.

 maybe if i was already there...

 or if everyoen i know was going, making it more of a social thing.

 On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 
 
 
  I guess its his choice
 
  exactly.
 
  I still would pay 15 bux to go see him
 
  as would I
 
  I think too many people expect too much from him or come to his shows
with
  expectations of what a Jeff Mills show is and then when he doesn't
deliver
  their preconceived notion they get in his face. I know it's happened
  because he's mentioned it on his discussion board.
 
  I don't think Detroit is under him - possibly he thinks it's behind
him,
  as in his past. Maybe there's bad memories - who the f*ck but Jeff
Mills
  and those whom he's told really know so people should just let the man
be
  and go see him where he *does* play.
 
  and the high price on the limited 3x12 - well maybe he figures he has
to
  make his money NOW because maybe he figures who ever is going to buy it
  will upload it to soulseek or what ever file share they are using and
then
  everyone will have it for free.
 
  MEK
 
 
 
/0
[EMAIL PROTECTED]To:   atomly
 [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mi.net  cc:
 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject:  Re: (313) axis
01/14/04 05:20 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
  its his loss at this point.  maybe he's afraid he cant compete with the
 new
  talents coming out of detroit now.  maybe detroits under him.  I guess
its
  his choice, theres more gig opportunity than there is mills to go
around
 
  even tho he still plays the same records as 3 years ago, I still would
pay
  15 bux to go see him if he could stomach a night in detroit :)
 
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: atomly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
  Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 5:49 PM
  Subject: Re: (313) axis
 
 
  
  
  
  
   Well isn't that a pompous response?
  
   No - it wasn't pompous, it was sarcastic. Crack a dictionary.
  
   Do you know when the last time Jeff Mills was hired to play in
Chicago

RE: (313) axis

[mislav bobic]

do not intend to get into this rather interesting debate
on good/bad Mills, just want to mention that I bought all
three ep's without proper listen and paid EUR 9.50 before
VAT reduction (13.89 %). So it is less than 6 pounds per EP.
Yeah, no promotion but this was at Hard Wax, Germany.

Believe me or not - I am not pissed

Peace
mislav



  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 5:10 PM
To: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)
Cc: 313@hyperreal.org; atomly; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; /0;
Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT); '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: (313) axis


It's hard to imagine Mills being that bad. I would say don't give up,
give
him another chance if you get the opportunity.

If you catch him on the right night he'll blow you away with his mixing.
I've experienced myself at both Lost  Sonar.
You don't get a reputation like Mills has for mixing badly  distorting
systems everywhere you go.

Risk being a fool once more  ;o)


 

Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)

[EMAIL PROTECTED]   To:
'[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED], Blackman, Ryan
ch.eu.com  (UKEKT)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
   cc:
[EMAIL PROTECTED], /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED],
16/01/2004 09:01313@hyperreal.org,
atomly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Fax to:

   Subject: RE:
(313) axis   
 





hahahahaha

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 15 January 2004 11:33
To: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; /0; 313@hyperreal.org; atomly
Subject: RE: (313) axis


embarrassed for him for crashing mixes and distroting the system.
embarrassed for the mindless people who didn't seem to notice.
embarrassed for my friends who got wasted just to enjoy
themselves (once it was clear the music wouldn't do)
embarrassed for the out-of-towners who travelled miles for something
special
embarrassed for the soundguy who wasn't 'allowed' to make the most
obvious
technical corrections to the mixer that Mills had jacked
embarrassed for this culture for continuing to hold up someone who so
clearly doesn't deserve it anymore
embarrassed for myself for never learning my lesson and continuing to
bother

fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, fool me three
times...




On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT) wrote:

 Embarassed about what?

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 14 January 2004 11:43
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: /0; 313@hyperreal.org; atomly
 Subject: Re: (313) axis


 having been disappointed (borderline embarrased) the last 3 times I've
 seen mills- i don't think you could pay me to leave the house and go
see
 him.

 maybe if i was already there...

 or if everyoen i know was going, making it more of a social thing.

 On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 
 
 
  I guess its his choice
 
  exactly.
 
  I still would pay 15 bux to go see him
 
  as would I
 
  I think too many people expect too much from him or come to his
shows
with
  expectations of what a Jeff Mills show is and then when he doesn't
deliver
  their preconceived notion they get in his face. I know it's happened
  because he's mentioned it on his discussion board.
 
  I don't think Detroit is under him - possibly he thinks it's
behind
him,
  as in his past. Maybe there's bad memories - who the f*ck but Jeff
Mills
  and those whom he's told really know so people should just let the
man
be
  and go see him where he *does* play.
 
  and the high price on the limited 3x12 - well maybe he figures he
has
to
  make his money NOW because maybe he figures who ever is going to buy
it
  will upload it to soulseek or what ever file share they are using
and
then
  everyone will have it for free.
 
  MEK
 
 
 
/0
[EMAIL PROTECTED]To:   atomly
 [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mi.net  cc:
 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject:  Re: (313)
axis
01/14/04 05:20 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
  its his loss at this point.  maybe he's afraid he cant compete with
the
 new
  talents coming out of detroit now.  maybe detroits under him.  I
guess
its
  his choice, theres more gig opportunity than there is mills to go
around
 
  even tho he still plays the same records as 3 years ago, I still
would
pay
  15 bux to go see him if he could stomach a night in detroit :)
 
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: atomly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
  Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 5:49 PM
  Subject: Re: (313) axis

Re: (313) axis

[Matt Chester]

I can say that he has definitely blown me away on more than one occasion,
and in the past has given me some of my most memorable nights out - the Axis
party at Lost at the Arches being possibly the #1.
But he has also dissapointed me and bored me on others occasions, and
recently the bad gigs far outweigh the good.  (i actually really enjoy his
loose mixing, I think it can be a lot funkier than someone who's totally
slick every time - but the heavy distortion he pumps through the mixers is
really irritating) And to be quite honest I'm totally sick of hearing
exactly the same records EVERY SINGLE SET, especially with the wealth of
fresh talent out there.  To me it has the same effect as radio stations
churning out a good song repeatedly until you start to hate it.

I don't mean to come across as slagging him off, I think he's an incredibly
talented musician, and I owe him a lot of inspiration.  I just think there
are people around now who are pushing the boundaries far more, and deserve
equal attention and recognition.


- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)
Cc: 313@hyperreal.org ; atomly ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; /0 ;
Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT) ; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 9:09 AM
Subject: RE: (313) axis



It's hard to imagine Mills being that bad. I would say don't give up, give
him another chance if you get the opportunity.

If you catch him on the right night he'll blow you away with his mixing.
I've experienced myself at both Lost  Sonar.
You don't get a reputation like Mills has for mixing badly  distorting
systems everywhere you go.

Risk being a fool once more  ;o)



Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   To:
'[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED], Blackman, Ryan
ch.eu.com  (UKEKT)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   cc:
[EMAIL PROTECTED], /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED],
16/01/2004 09:01313@hyperreal.org,
atomly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Fax to:
   Subject: RE: (313)
axis





hahahahaha

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 15 January 2004 11:33
To: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; /0; 313@hyperreal.org; atomly
Subject: RE: (313) axis


embarrassed for him for crashing mixes and distroting the system.
embarrassed for the mindless people who didn't seem to notice.
embarrassed for my friends who got wasted just to enjoy
themselves (once it was clear the music wouldn't do)
embarrassed for the out-of-towners who travelled miles for something
special
embarrassed for the soundguy who wasn't 'allowed' to make the most obvious
technical corrections to the mixer that Mills had jacked
embarrassed for this culture for continuing to hold up someone who so
clearly doesn't deserve it anymore
embarrassed for myself for never learning my lesson and continuing to
bother

fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, fool me three
times...




On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT) wrote:

 Embarassed about what?

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 14 January 2004 11:43
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: /0; 313@hyperreal.org; atomly
 Subject: Re: (313) axis


 having been disappointed (borderline embarrased) the last 3 times I've
 seen mills- i don't think you could pay me to leave the house and go see
 him.

 maybe if i was already there...

 or if everyoen i know was going, making it more of a social thing.

 On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 
 
 
  I guess its his choice
 
  exactly.
 
  I still would pay 15 bux to go see him
 
  as would I
 
  I think too many people expect too much from him or come to his shows
with
  expectations of what a Jeff Mills show is and then when he doesn't
deliver
  their preconceived notion they get in his face. I know it's happened
  because he's mentioned it on his discussion board.
 
  I don't think Detroit is under him - possibly he thinks it's behind
him,
  as in his past. Maybe there's bad memories - who the f*ck but Jeff
Mills
  and those whom he's told really know so people should just let the man
be
  and go see him where he *does* play.
 
  and the high price on the limited 3x12 - well maybe he figures he has
to
  make his money NOW because maybe he figures who ever is going to buy it
  will upload it to soulseek or what ever file share they are using and
then
  everyone will have it for free.
 
  MEK
 
 
 
/0
[EMAIL PROTECTED]To:   atomly
 [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mi.net  cc:
 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject:  Re: (313) axis
01/14/04 05:20 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
  its his

RE: (313) axis

[Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)]

I disagree that he plays the same records every set, if you were at Heaven
in May 03' you would know this is not the case!!!

-Original Message-
From: Matt Chester [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 16 January 2004 9:30 
To: 313 Detroit
Subject: Re: (313) axis


I can say that he has definitely blown me away on more than one occasion,
and in the past has given me some of my most memorable nights out - the Axis
party at Lost at the Arches being possibly the #1.
But he has also dissapointed me and bored me on others occasions, and
recently the bad gigs far outweigh the good.  (i actually really enjoy his
loose mixing, I think it can be a lot funkier than someone who's totally
slick every time - but the heavy distortion he pumps through the mixers is
really irritating) And to be quite honest I'm totally sick of hearing
exactly the same records EVERY SINGLE SET, especially with the wealth of
fresh talent out there.  To me it has the same effect as radio stations
churning out a good song repeatedly until you start to hate it.

I don't mean to come across as slagging him off, I think he's an incredibly
talented musician, and I owe him a lot of inspiration.  I just think there
are people around now who are pushing the boundaries far more, and deserve
equal attention and recognition.


- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)
Cc: 313@hyperreal.org ; atomly ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; /0 ;
Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT) ; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 9:09 AM
Subject: RE: (313) axis



It's hard to imagine Mills being that bad. I would say don't give up, give
him another chance if you get the opportunity.

If you catch him on the right night he'll blow you away with his mixing.
I've experienced myself at both Lost  Sonar.
You don't get a reputation like Mills has for mixing badly  distorting
systems everywhere you go.

Risk being a fool once more  ;o)



Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   To:
'[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED], Blackman, Ryan
ch.eu.com  (UKEKT)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   cc:
[EMAIL PROTECTED], /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED],
16/01/2004 09:01313@hyperreal.org,
atomly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Fax to:
   Subject: RE: (313)
axis





hahahahaha

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 15 January 2004 11:33
To: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; /0; 313@hyperreal.org; atomly
Subject: RE: (313) axis


embarrassed for him for crashing mixes and distroting the system.
embarrassed for the mindless people who didn't seem to notice.
embarrassed for my friends who got wasted just to enjoy
themselves (once it was clear the music wouldn't do)
embarrassed for the out-of-towners who travelled miles for something
special
embarrassed for the soundguy who wasn't 'allowed' to make the most obvious
technical corrections to the mixer that Mills had jacked
embarrassed for this culture for continuing to hold up someone who so
clearly doesn't deserve it anymore
embarrassed for myself for never learning my lesson and continuing to
bother

fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, fool me three
times...




On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT) wrote:

 Embarassed about what?

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 14 January 2004 11:43
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: /0; 313@hyperreal.org; atomly
 Subject: Re: (313) axis


 having been disappointed (borderline embarrased) the last 3 times I've
 seen mills- i don't think you could pay me to leave the house and go see
 him.

 maybe if i was already there...

 or if everyoen i know was going, making it more of a social thing.

 On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 
 
 
  I guess its his choice
 
  exactly.
 
  I still would pay 15 bux to go see him
 
  as would I
 
  I think too many people expect too much from him or come to his shows
with
  expectations of what a Jeff Mills show is and then when he doesn't
deliver
  their preconceived notion they get in his face. I know it's happened
  because he's mentioned it on his discussion board.
 
  I don't think Detroit is under him - possibly he thinks it's behind
him,
  as in his past. Maybe there's bad memories - who the f*ck but Jeff
Mills
  and those whom he's told really know so people should just let the man
be
  and go see him where he *does* play.
 
  and the high price on the limited 3x12 - well maybe he figures he has
to
  make his money NOW because maybe he figures who ever is going to buy it
  will upload it to soulseek or what ever file share they are using and
then
  everyone will have it for free.
 
  MEK
 
 
 
/0
[EMAIL PROTECTED

RE: (313) axis

[Grammenos, Peter]

We all have our bad days, even a superstart like mills does. To the point
that mills no longer plays in the USA, I have seen him 3 (maybe 4?) times in
the last year and a half at arc, a club here in nyc. He has established a
good working relationship with nick, the manager of the club, and continues
to come back. He is treated with the uptmost respect and courtesy.. From
being picked up at the airport to stocking the fridge in the dj booth with
his favorite juices. A man his stature desserves this attention, maybe he
doesn't get this elsewhere in the USA? Regardless, last time he was here in
NYC, a few months ago, he was amazing and played for almost 5 hours. Too bad
there were only about 4-500 people there to enjoy it.

-P

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 7:07 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: (313) axis


i think we're all better off with Mills not representing the American techno
community.

He had what is probably the largest public forum for techno in America (Hart
Plaza) and his set was mediocre at best.






On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 - Original Message -
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  the only belief i espoused is that no one here has the right to 
  condem the man...i don't even know him, or buy his music, but damn 
  does he really owe
  anyone to play in whatever city he lives in

 I've been watching from the sidelines, but wanted to comment on what 
 atomly and a few others touched on. Mills, Derrick Carter, UR or any 
 other artist are not obligated to do anything for the community, but 
 some artists do show interest in keeping their community alive and 
 some don't. In a music community that is struggling to stay afloat, 
 the locals personally involved in the community (record shops, 
 promoters, local djs, music lovers, etc) are obviously going to take 
 note of who is helping out.

 Nobody can speak for Mills' personal reasons for not djing in the US, 
 but it is more than that, it is his actions that show no desire to 
 mend whatever problems kept him from djing here, and no desire to keep 
 in touch with the issues affecting the changing face of the local 
 scene. Until he proves otherwise, it would be hard not to judge him as 
 such. Nobody is saying he is obligated to do anything- but by choosing 
 to ignore the local scene, regardless of the reason, he is bound to 
 receive criticism - and the fact that he does not openly discuss his 
 reasons leaves even more room for criticism..

 As mentioned, UR is a good example of a successful techno-outfit from 
 the early days that has NOT forgotten the value of the community, 
 despite the decline of the stateside techno scene. After the move to 
 the new building they set up facilities for community workshops, a new 
 website/discussion boards, still doing local shows on a regular basis, 
 and still very vocal in the ongoing community dialogue. These actions 
 speak loudly to locals.

 I don't think Mills owes anybody anything, but knowing the state of 
 the Detroit and Chicago techno scenes, and knowing how apathetic the 
 rest of the music community is to the struggling techno community- you 
 can see where the techno community gets frustrated with the lack of 
 support, not just from Mills, but from any number of sources. Not 
 saying he should dj 'x' amont of times per year, or make specific 
 public appearances, but any actions that show a general concern are 
 appreciated. So many american artists/djs see that americans are not 
 into dance culture, and instead of trying to address that issue 
 locally, they just pack their flight-case and head off to Europe. 
 Meanwhile, the other 99% of the community who cannot afford to follow 
 along are stuck trying to keep the local scene afloat. I don't think 
 many people hate Mills over this, but it is a sensitive issue for 
 locals and frustrations are occasionally vented when the issue comes 
 up.

 peace,
 p

 
  - Original Message -
  From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
  Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 7:53 PM
  Subject: Re: (313) axis
 
 
  
   the man lives in chicago and people dont see him there doing
  what he's
  love
   for. if you cant understand that, maybe sit back and try ot
  open your
  mind
   and at least see things from the perspective of another instead of 
   brow-beating them into taking on your own beliefs. how do you
  know these
   people wouldnt say it to his face? I know lots of people I'd go
  off on in
   person given the chance :)
  
  
  
  
   - Original Message -
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
   Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:51 PM
   Subject: Re: (313) axis
  
  
why don't people attack jeff when they meet him in person
  instead of
  kiss
a**
   
- Original Message -
From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: (313) axis

[Mark S . Krüx]

PG Regardless, last time he was here in
 NYC, a few months ago, he was amazing and played for almost 5 hours. Too
bad
 there were only about 4-500 people there to enjoy it.

Better those 500 than the 1000 idiots that usually show up...

The vibe and the music were on another level that night.

Re: (313) axis

[alugo]

Hi KJ, I'd really like to hear what he is doing for the community. While I 
agree wiuth the fact that there is no law out there that says he has to do 
anything, I would really like to know what the perception is as to what he 
is doing (a lot of). 

The argument that he has more overhead than others so has to charge more, 
is insane to say the least. Maybe smaller labels are not doing adverts in 
full color in magazines, but they are doing way more for this community 
at this point by providing variety. I wonder what Jeff and Mad Mike would 
have thought of someone charging this much for a record 10 years ago. Do 
you think he is helping or supporting this community in any way by doing 
so? If yes, then buy 10 copies. My standing argument that I have discussed 
with many people on and off this list is that these same originators, or 
whatever you may call them, are where they are because of many of your 
hard earned dollars. While this in no way makes him beholding to his fans, 
many of the ideologies that have been spewed about what techno is really 
about have been overshadowed by capitalism. No one is saying that he 
should not make any money. That's great! Everyone should be so lucky. But 
what if he and others in his position could take it further than that! 
Galvanize this community through festivals (lukewarm overall), seminars, 
clubs (gasp!), and the development of new players in the game. There is so 
much more that could have been done by him and others to truly place them 
on a pedestal, which many people here have done. One expects more from 
icons. If he's trying to make a difference, them I'm smoking crack. There 
are thousands of producers out there trying to make a difference at this 
stage. This verbage is tired when not followed by action worthy of 
support.

In any other industry, as stated in the email below, someone of his 
stature would have more control of the final price of his product. I 
guarantee that if he was against the selling of his product for this 
price, he could blacklist some distributors without blinking an eye. That, 
again, would be something admirable to see. I, for one, won't be holding 
my breath. The only way to deal with this situation is to leave your cash 
in you wallet or purse. If you don't want too, that's fine, but just 
remember how much you paid for this record when the next one is even 
higher. If I were a Mills fan that wanted to buy everything he ever did, I 
would consider this a slap in the face. That's my opinion...

The following statement is the most refreshing one I have seen on here in 
a long time:

Atomly wrote:

I think artists/musicians/whatever have a responsibility to their
community beyond just releasing records-- art is not created inside some
sort of a vacuum.  You may disagree with me, and that's fine, but that's
how I feel and that influences how and where I spend my money. 

I think that Jeff Mills has a certain responsibility to help foster the
American electronic music scene being that he is an electronic musician
from the United States.  It's like he took what he needed from
Detroit/Chicago and then just turned his back on them.  It's not like he
invented techno, despite what some of you may think, but rather was
introduced to a fertile art scene and is not acting to maintain that
scene at all but instead is essentially plundering and pilfering
whatever he can from the apparently willing fans.


Kudos to you for the above. Many people here think this is a negative 
statement, but it is true of so many people other than Jeff Mills. 

Anybody is capable of saving a life, Badi. If I have to wait around for 
him to do it, I'd be dead. :)

I don't dislike him Jeff as a person, but I think a lot of moral 
flexibility has been given to these icons in this community. This has 
become a class/caste system in the worst sense. If any one of 100 other 
producers in Detroit would come out with a record at this price, you all 
would die of laughter. But I guess him spending x hours in the studio is 
infintely more valuable, and the price has been passed along to you, the 
consumer. Hmm, I wonder if it sounds better to your ears the more 
expensive a record is.. 

Peace,
Alex




atomly [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
01/14/2004 03:43 PM

To
313@hyperreal.org
cc

Subject
Re: (313) axis






[kj at technotourist dot org [EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Yes this is a statement, Jeff Mills invests a lot of his money back
 into Detroit and to help the people who need it. He is doing a lot for
 the community!

He sure hasn't done much for Chicago, having lived here for years.  I
see him hang out at the bar when Derrick May or Cisco Ferreira plays
here and that's about it.  The man could singlehandedly redefine
the American techno scene but won't because he's too full of himself to
care.

 Also keep in mind that after he drops the records at the distributors 
 he kinda looses control about the price. A lot of shops want to cash in 
 on limited edition Axis records

Re: (313) axis

[badi]

From: atomly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Jeff Mills hasn't played in Chicago since 1993? despite living here for
 years.

 I think artists/musicians/whatever have a responsibility to their
 community beyond just releasing records-- art is not created inside some
 sort of a vacuum.

hold up hold up...was that you i saw chillin over at ida b wells...oh wait
maybe that was cabrini green...i'm getting older i forget...maybe somewhere
over on the west side...

what community are you from? what responsibility does he have to you?

 I think that Jeff Mills has a certain responsibility to help foster the
 American electronic music scene being that he is an electronic musician
 from the United States.


o...now i see...b*tched lover.!


yeah baby...let that envy shine through...huh...yeah, now rub a lil o
that ignorance in thereyup...
now you beautiful


you wanna talk about the price of the records that's fair...condeming him as
a person is going too far...

Re: (313) axis

[badi]

alex,

on this point...

There are thousands of producers out there trying to make a difference at
this stage.

i would stand shoulder to shoulder with you and wage battle against nearly
all of them (you know who i mean)

but...i feel the price is a different point...

|
|b)

Re: (313) axis

[yussel]

 he might
 have to save your life one day...

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!





bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha




hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe.

ouch






 wake up!

Re: (313) axis

[/0]

why dont you calm down and let people speak their opinion without attacking
them.
- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: (313) axis


 From: atomly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Jeff Mills hasn't played in Chicago since 1993? despite living here for
  years.

  I think artists/musicians/whatever have a responsibility to their
  community beyond just releasing records-- art is not created inside some
  sort of a vacuum.

 hold up hold up...was that you i saw chillin over at ida b wells...oh wait
 maybe that was cabrini green...i'm getting older i forget...maybe
somewhere
 over on the west side...

 what community are you from? what responsibility does he have to you?

  I think that Jeff Mills has a certain responsibility to help foster the
  American electronic music scene being that he is an electronic musician
  from the United States.


 o...now i see...b*tched lover.!


 yeah baby...let that envy shine through...huh...yeah, now rub a lil o
 that ignorance in thereyup...
 now you beautiful


 you wanna talk about the price of the records that's fair...condeming him
as
 a person is going too far...

Re: (313) axis

[badi]

why don't people attack jeff when they meet him in person instead of kiss
a**

- Original Message -
From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: (313) axis


 why dont you calm down and let people speak their opinion without
attacking
 them.
 - Original Message -
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:32 PM
 Subject: Re: (313) axis


  From: atomly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Jeff Mills hasn't played in Chicago since 1993? despite living here
for
   years.
 
   I think artists/musicians/whatever have a responsibility to their
   community beyond just releasing records-- art is not created inside
some
   sort of a vacuum.
 
  hold up hold up...was that you i saw chillin over at ida b wells...oh
wait
  maybe that was cabrini green...i'm getting older i forget...maybe
 somewhere
  over on the west side...
 
  what community are you from? what responsibility does he have to you?
 
   I think that Jeff Mills has a certain responsibility to help foster
the
   American electronic music scene being that he is an electronic
musician
   from the United States.
 
 
  o...now i see...b*tched lover.!
 
 
  yeah baby...let that envy shine through...huh...yeah, now rub a lil
o
  that ignorance in thereyup...
  now you beautiful
 
 
  you wanna talk about the price of the records that's fair...condeming
him
 as
  a person is going too far...
 

Re: (313) axis

[yussel]

um.


done that.






On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 why don't people attack jeff when they meet him in person instead of kiss
 a**

 - Original Message -
 From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
 Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 6:17 PM
 Subject: Re: (313) axis


  why dont you calm down and let people speak their opinion without
 attacking
  them.
  - Original Message -
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: 313@hyperreal.org
  Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:32 PM
  Subject: Re: (313) axis
 
 
   From: atomly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jeff Mills hasn't played in Chicago since 1993? despite living here
 for
years.
  
I think artists/musicians/whatever have a responsibility to their
community beyond just releasing records-- art is not created inside
 some
sort of a vacuum.
  
   hold up hold up...was that you i saw chillin over at ida b wells...oh
 wait
   maybe that was cabrini green...i'm getting older i forget...maybe
  somewhere
   over on the west side...
  
   what community are you from? what responsibility does he have to you?
  
I think that Jeff Mills has a certain responsibility to help foster
 the
American electronic music scene being that he is an electronic
 musician
from the United States.
  
  
   o...now i see...b*tched lover.!
  
  
   yeah baby...let that envy shine through...huh...yeah, now rub a lil
 o
   that ignorance in thereyup...
   now you beautiful
  
  
   you wanna talk about the price of the records that's fair...condeming
 him
  as
   a person is going too far...
  

Re: (313) axis

[Kent williams]

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Do you know when the last time Jeff Mills was hired to play in Chicago? Or
 the last time he was offered to play there?

Anyone who wants to book Jeff Mills has to get through his manager.
Easier said than done.  Frederic has told me flat out that Jeff won't
play in the US. Since I tried to talk to him about playing here, Mills
has played Detroit once, and NYC a few times.

Chicago isn't a techno town. Mani and Ken and Karl try and do stuff, but
appearances by Detroit artists in Chicago are few and far between.
Since the rave scene in Chicago is dead, and the big clubs are aimed
at the meathead crowd, the market just isn't there.

Matt McQueen would know more about it...

Re: (313) axis

[/0]

the man lives in chicago and people dont see him there doing what he's love
for.  if you cant understand that, maybe sit back and try ot open your mind
and at least see things from the perspective of another instead of
brow-beating them into taking on your own beliefs.  how do you know these
people wouldnt say it to his face?  I know lots of people I'd go off on in
person given the chance :)




- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: (313) axis


 why don't people attack jeff when they meet him in person instead of kiss
 a**

 - Original Message -
 From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
 Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 6:17 PM
 Subject: Re: (313) axis


  why dont you calm down and let people speak their opinion without
 attacking
  them.
  - Original Message -
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: 313@hyperreal.org
  Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:32 PM
  Subject: Re: (313) axis
 
 
   From: atomly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jeff Mills hasn't played in Chicago since 1993? despite living here
 for
years.
  
I think artists/musicians/whatever have a responsibility to their
community beyond just releasing records-- art is not created inside
 some
sort of a vacuum.
  
   hold up hold up...was that you i saw chillin over at ida b wells...oh
 wait
   maybe that was cabrini green...i'm getting older i forget...maybe
  somewhere
   over on the west side...
  
   what community are you from? what responsibility does he have to you?
  
I think that Jeff Mills has a certain responsibility to help foster
 the
American electronic music scene being that he is an electronic
 musician
from the United States.
  
  
   o...now i see...b*tched lover.!
  
  
   yeah baby...let that envy shine through...huh...yeah, now rub a
lil
 o
   that ignorance in thereyup...
   now you beautiful
  
  
   you wanna talk about the price of the records that's fair...condeming
 him
  as
   a person is going too far...
  

Re: (313) axis

[badi]

 for.  if you cant understand that, maybe sit back and try ot open your
mind
 and at least see things from the perspective of another instead of
 brow-beating them into taking on your own beliefs.

the only belief i espoused is that no one here has the right to condem the
man...i don't even know him, or buy his music, but damn does he really owe
anyone to play in whatever city he lives in...for the sake of some supposed
artistic community...this is simply nonsense...why can't i express that as
an opinion...

- Original Message -
From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: (313) axis



 the man lives in chicago and people dont see him there doing what he's
love
 for.  if you cant understand that, maybe sit back and try ot open your
mind
 and at least see things from the perspective of another instead of
 brow-beating them into taking on your own beliefs.  how do you know these
 people wouldnt say it to his face?  I know lots of people I'd go off on in
 person given the chance :)




 - Original Message -
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
 Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:51 PM
 Subject: Re: (313) axis


  why don't people attack jeff when they meet him in person instead of
kiss
  a**
 
  - Original Message -
  From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
  Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 6:17 PM
  Subject: Re: (313) axis
 
 
   why dont you calm down and let people speak their opinion without
  attacking
   them.
   - Original Message -
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: 313@hyperreal.org
   Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:32 PM
   Subject: Re: (313) axis
  
  
From: atomly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Jeff Mills hasn't played in Chicago since 1993? despite living
here
  for
 years.
   
 I think artists/musicians/whatever have a responsibility to their
 community beyond just releasing records-- art is not created
inside
  some
 sort of a vacuum.
   
hold up hold up...was that you i saw chillin over at ida b
wells...oh
  wait
maybe that was cabrini green...i'm getting older i forget...maybe
   somewhere
over on the west side...
   
what community are you from? what responsibility does he have to
you?
   
 I think that Jeff Mills has a certain responsibility to help
foster
  the
 American electronic music scene being that he is an electronic
  musician
 from the United States.
   
   
o...now i see...b*tched lover.!
   
   
yeah baby...let that envy shine through...huh...yeah, now rub a
 lil
  o
that ignorance in thereyup...
now you beautiful
   
   
you wanna talk about the price of the records that's
fair...condeming
  him
   as
a person is going too far...
   
 

Re: (313) axis

[badi]

 I know lots of people I'd go off on in
 person given the chance :)

better that, than on this list where he probably is not...cowardice...i've
seen this played out many times...

like i said...the issue of the fair pricing is valid...talk about his
character is reaching...

Re: (313) axis

[/0]

o...now i see...b*tched lover.!


yeah baby...let that envy shine through...huh...yeah, now rub a lil o
that ignorance in thereyup...
now you beautiful

---
look familiar?  why demean someone for expressing their opinion

the end,
_j

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 1:02 AM
Subject: Re: (313) axis


  for.  if you cant understand that, maybe sit back and try ot open your
 mind
  and at least see things from the perspective of another instead of
  brow-beating them into taking on your own beliefs.

 the only belief i espoused is that no one here has the right to condem the
 man...i don't even know him, or buy his music, but damn does he really owe
 anyone to play in whatever city he lives in...for the sake of some
supposed
 artistic community...this is simply nonsense...why can't i express that as
 an opinion...

 - Original Message -
 From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
 Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 7:53 PM
 Subject: Re: (313) axis


 
  the man lives in chicago and people dont see him there doing what he's
 love
  for.  if you cant understand that, maybe sit back and try ot open your
 mind
  and at least see things from the perspective of another instead of
  brow-beating them into taking on your own beliefs.  how do you know
these
  people wouldnt say it to his face?  I know lots of people I'd go off on
in
  person given the chance :)
 
 
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
  Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:51 PM
  Subject: Re: (313) axis
 
 
   why don't people attack jeff when they meet him in person instead of
 kiss
   a**
  
   - Original Message -
   From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
   Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 6:17 PM
   Subject: Re: (313) axis
  
  
why dont you calm down and let people speak their opinion without
   attacking
them.
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: (313) axis
   
   
 From: atomly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Jeff Mills hasn't played in Chicago since 1993? despite living
 here
   for
  years.

  I think artists/musicians/whatever have a responsibility to
their
  community beyond just releasing records-- art is not created
 inside
   some
  sort of a vacuum.

 hold up hold up...was that you i saw chillin over at ida b
 wells...oh
   wait
 maybe that was cabrini green...i'm getting older i forget...maybe
somewhere
 over on the west side...

 what community are you from? what responsibility does he have to
 you?

  I think that Jeff Mills has a certain responsibility to help
 foster
   the
  American electronic music scene being that he is an electronic
   musician
  from the United States.


 o...now i see...b*tched lover.!


 yeah baby...let that envy shine through...huh...yeah, now rub
a
  lil
   o
 that ignorance in thereyup...
 now you beautiful


 you wanna talk about the price of the records that's
 fair...condeming
   him
as
 a person is going too far...

  

Re: (313) axis

[badi]

 um.
 
 
 done that.

good...

good job mate...

Re: (313) axis

[badi]

 o...now i see...b*tched lover.!


 yeah baby...let that envy shine through...huh...yeah, now rub a lil o
 that ignorance in thereyup...
 now you beautiful

 ---
 look familiar?  why demean someone for expressing their opinion

 the end,
 _j



where in there is a reference to my beliefs???
i don't deny that it's a bit mean...ok i'll apologize for that...but i have
a right to what i said as well...

Re: (313) axis

[/0]

that you do

lets end it now, have a good night :)

www.emmrecords.com/~fux/web.php

flip through my works in progress and melt your brain

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 1:14 AM
Subject: Re: (313) axis


  o...now i see...b*tched lover.!
 
 
  yeah baby...let that envy shine through...huh...yeah, now rub a lil
o
  that ignorance in thereyup...
  now you beautiful
 
  ---
  look familiar?  why demean someone for expressing their opinion
 
  the end,
  _j



 where in there is a reference to my beliefs???
 i don't deny that it's a bit mean...ok i'll apologize for that...but i
have
 a right to what i said as well...

Re: (313) axis

[badi]

very well...

i've sent you some of my work as well i believe...

RE: (313) axis

[David Powers]

Well, just as a contrast, I live in Chicago in Logan Square.

Recently Derrick Carter played a set three blocks from my house.  For
FREE.  

He just showed up at Streetside, the neighborhood bar which has a DJ
every night and never charges cover.  Apparently he owed a favor to the
guys that play that night, but whatever, I mean it is a free venue.  If
you play there it is cus you love the music.  I really, really respect
that...  And I don't think it at all detracts from Derrick's ability to
make a living.  

Now, nobody makes you buy a Jeff Mills record, and he has a right to run
his business as he chooses.  But guess what, people notice things like
that.  Some of us try and be very choosy and smart consumers watching
who are dollars support.  (I also don't eat McDonald's or Coke).  So I'm
not gonna bitch about the price of a Mills record.  It's a luxury, some
people have nowhere to live.  But guess what, there's plenty of great
music.  I JUST WON'T BUY THE RECORD.  I'd actually much rather support
UR.  Beyond that, there are plenty of lesser known people and some are
up on his level, so much of this is just HYPE.  Don't be the dumb
consumer.  Support what you believe in and stay away from the rest.
Maybe his overpricing is even good, if it means that less knowledgeable
people buy HIS record, whereas you go out and find something really
worth your money!  

~David


-Original Message-
From: atomly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 4:18 PM
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: (313) axis

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 I agree - all those Jeff Mills records I and thousands of other people
 own and enjoy in our living rooms - not to mention all of us who use
 his records to make other people dance, plus the fantastic DJ sets
 we've experienced, and his and Robert Hoods practical invention of the
 minimal techno style don't amount to much. We've been duped.
 
 I think Jeff Mills owes us all a personal apology for robbing us all
 these years of a lot - whatever that a lot may be.

Well isn't that a pompous response?

Jeff Mills hasn't played in Chicago since 1993? despite living here for
years.  You may remember that he reluctantly agreed to play a show in
Detroit in 2000 after not performing there for years, even though he's
from there, and then cancelled it because it didn't sell enough tickets.
The event finally happened years later, but not until after he had acted
like a total prima donna.

I think artists/musicians/whatever have a responsibility to their
community beyond just releasing records-- art is not created inside some
sort of a vacuum.  You may disagree with me, and that's fine, but that's
how I feel and that influences how and where I spend my money.  

I think that Jeff Mills has a certain responsibility to help foster the
American electronic music scene being that he is an electronic musician
from the United States.  It's like he took what he needed from
Detroit/Chicago and then just turned his back on them.  It's not like he
invented techno, despite what some of you may think, but rather was
introduced to a fertile art scene and is not acting to maintain that
scene at all but instead is essentially plundering and pilfering
whatever he can from the apparently willing fans.

-- 
:: atomly ::

[ [EMAIL PROTECTED] : www.atomly.com ...
[ atomiq records : po box 805319 chicago il 60680 : 312.804.5389 ...
[ e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for atomly info and updates
...

RE: (313) axis

[Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)]

Embarassed about what?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 14 January 2004 11:43 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: /0; 313@hyperreal.org; atomly
Subject: Re: (313) axis


having been disappointed (borderline embarrased) the last 3 times I've
seen mills- i don't think you could pay me to leave the house and go see
him.

maybe if i was already there...

or if everyoen i know was going, making it more of a social thing.

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





 I guess its his choice

 exactly.

 I still would pay 15 bux to go see him

 as would I

 I think too many people expect too much from him or come to his shows with
 expectations of what a Jeff Mills show is and then when he doesn't deliver
 their preconceived notion they get in his face. I know it's happened
 because he's mentioned it on his discussion board.

 I don't think Detroit is under him - possibly he thinks it's behind him,
 as in his past. Maybe there's bad memories - who the f*ck but Jeff Mills
 and those whom he's told really know so people should just let the man be
 and go see him where he *does* play.

 and the high price on the limited 3x12 - well maybe he figures he has to
 make his money NOW because maybe he figures who ever is going to buy it
 will upload it to soulseek or what ever file share they are using and then
 everyone will have it for free.

 MEK



   /0
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:   atomly
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   mi.net  cc:
313@hyperreal.org
Subject:  Re: (313) axis
   01/14/04 05:20 PM






 its his loss at this point.  maybe he's afraid he cant compete with the
new
 talents coming out of detroit now.  maybe detroits under him.  I guess its
 his choice, theres more gig opportunity than there is mills to go around

 even tho he still plays the same records as 3 years ago, I still would pay
 15 bux to go see him if he could stomach a night in detroit :)



 - Original Message -
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: atomly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
 Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 5:49 PM
 Subject: Re: (313) axis


 
 
 
 
  Well isn't that a pompous response?
 
  No - it wasn't pompous, it was sarcastic. Crack a dictionary.
 
  Do you know when the last time Jeff Mills was hired to play in Chicago?
 Or
  the last time he was offered to play there?
  Just because he's from Detroit or lives in Chicago doesn't obligate him
 to
  play there - I could imagine that there *could* exist for him many
 personal
  issues with people in Detroit (or Chicago) that would cause him to say
to
  himself - you know, self, I'd only go back to Detroit if I was given a
  million dollars
 
  I think artists/musicians/whatever have a responsibility to their
  community beyond just releasing records--
 
  As several people have stated - Jeff does give back to his community -
he
  just doesn't do it in the public eye for loads of attention or to get
the
  ok from people like yourself. It's called being humble.
 
  but instead is essentially plundering and pilfering
  whatever he can from the apparently willing fans.
 
  I'd still like to know what you think you are personally being robbed
of.
  You've seen him at a bar - are you pissed because he's relaxing instead
 of
  DJing?
 
  I've known many DJs and artists who live in Minneapolis but don't play
  here. They prefer to play in Europe or other cities because they get a
  better response and they like to keep the city they live in as a sort of
  quiet retreat from where they perform.
 
  makes sense to me
  MEK
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
atomly
[EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
 313@hyperreal.org
m   cc:
 Subject:  Re: (313) axis
01/14/04 04:18 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   I agree - all those Jeff Mills records I and thousands of other people
   own and enjoy in our living rooms - not to mention all of us who use
   his records to make other people dance, plus the fantastic DJ sets
   we've experienced, and his and Robert Hoods practical invention of the
   minimal techno style don't amount to much. We've been duped.
  
   I think Jeff Mills owes us all a personal apology for robbing us all
   these years of a lot - whatever that a lot may be.
 
  Well isn't that a pompous response?
 
  Jeff Mills hasn't played in Chicago since 1993? despite living here for
  years.  You may remember that he reluctantly agreed to play a show in
  Detroit in 2000 after not performing there for years, even though he's
  from there, and then cancelled it because it didn't sell enough tickets.
  The event finally happened years later, but not until after he had acted
  like a total prima donna.
 
  I think artists/musicians

Re: (313) axis

[Martin]

From LD:

Ryan:
From the Axis Shop it was about £5 or £6 a piece.
From UK shops 2 weeks ago, about £8-9.
Now, mysteriously, the same vendors are knocking them out for the above
mentioned prices. I know people have been dissing Mills for this, but it's
plain to see that the mark ups has been added by the shops. 




14/1/04 6:17 PM Cobert, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 and there's a series of albums, both classic and recent ones, sold in pack of
 two or four on the website...
 Gwendal
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Mittwoch, 14. Januar 2004 18:55
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: Re: (313) axis
 
 
 
 Us Yanks better take advantage of Warp's 7-quid-per-album MP3 deal now;
 
 just to let you all know if you're interested, theres a warp back catalogue
 cd campaign going on in the UK at the minute.
 I think all the CD's are 8.99 (maybe a little cheaper)
 you can get them at www.piccadillyrecords.com, and also www.boomkat.com, I
 guess at warp too.
 _
 
 - End of message text 
 
 This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
 individual, non-business capacity and is not on
 behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.
 
 PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
 e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
 telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you
 give your consent to such monitoring
 
 
 
 

RE: (313) axis

[Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)]

I'd just like to point out that the above mentioned prices were in
reference to the prices that Martin mentioned on LD, namely £12 per piece.

-Original Message-
From: Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 15 January 2004 9:43 
To: Cobert, Gwendal; 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: (313) axis


From LD:

Ryan:
From the Axis Shop it was about £5 or £6 a piece.
From UK shops 2 weeks ago, about £8-9.
Now, mysteriously, the same vendors are knocking them out for the above
mentioned prices. I know people have been dissing Mills for this, but it's
plain to see that the mark ups has been added by the shops. 




14/1/04 6:17 PM Cobert, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 and there's a series of albums, both classic and recent ones, sold in pack
of
 two or four on the website...
 Gwendal
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Mittwoch, 14. Januar 2004 18:55
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: Re: (313) axis
 
 
 
 Us Yanks better take advantage of Warp's 7-quid-per-album MP3 deal now;
 
 just to let you all know if you're interested, theres a warp back
catalogue
 cd campaign going on in the UK at the minute.
 I think all the CD's are 8.99 (maybe a little cheaper)
 you can get them at www.piccadillyrecords.com, and also www.boomkat.com, I
 guess at warp too.
 _
 
 - End of message text 
 
 This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
 individual, non-business capacity and is not on
 behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.
 
 PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
 e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
 telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you
 give your consent to such monitoring
 
 
 
 



***
Opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and 
not Entergy-Koch Trading Limited or its affiliated companies. 
This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies 
and forwarded copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently 
transmitted from the Company, are confidential and solely for the 
use of the intended recipient. It may contain material protected by 
attorney-client privilege. If you are not listed on the To or Cc 
lines of the original email (or are not the person responsible for 
delivering to an intended recipient), then you are not an intended 
recipient and have received this email in error.  Any use by an 
unintended recipient is strictly prohibited.

If you have received this email in error please notify the IT manager 
by telephone on +44 (0)20 7337 8300 or via email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], attaching this message. Please 
then delete this email and all attachments, and destroy any copies 
thereof.  Thank you.
***

Re: (313) axis

[Marsel van der Wielen]

this is not completely true

as to the shops, they are offered pretty expensive by the several
distributors
and they offer it more expensive, as they but it in more expensive
and of course shops take their own margin.

- Original Message - 
From: Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Cobert, Gwendal [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: (313) axis


From LD:

Ryan:
From the Axis Shop it was about £5 or £6 a piece.
From UK shops 2 weeks ago, about £8-9.
Now, mysteriously, the same vendors are knocking them out for the above
mentioned prices. I know people have been dissing Mills for this, but it's
plain to see that the mark ups has been added by the shops.




14/1/04 6:17 PM Cobert, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 and there's a series of albums, both classic and recent ones, sold in pack
of
 two or four on the website...
 Gwendal

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Mittwoch, 14. Januar 2004 18:55
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: Re: (313) axis



 Us Yanks better take advantage of Warp's 7-quid-per-album MP3 deal now;

 just to let you all know if you're interested, theres a warp back
catalogue
 cd campaign going on in the UK at the minute.
 I think all the CD's are 8.99 (maybe a little cheaper)
 you can get them at www.piccadillyrecords.com, and also www.boomkat.com, I
 guess at warp too.
 _

 - End of message text 

 This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
 individual, non-business capacity and is not on
 behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

 PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
 e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
 telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you
 give your consent to such monitoring

Re: (313) axis

[Martin]

One of the lads has just seen these in a shop in Sheffield for £14!



15/1/04 9:52 AM Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 I'd just like to point out that the above mentioned prices were in
 reference to the prices that Martin mentioned on LD, namely £12 per piece.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 15 January 2004 9:43
 To: Cobert, Gwendal; 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: Re: (313) axis
 
 
 From LD:
 
 Ryan:
 From the Axis Shop it was about £5 or £6 a piece.
 From UK shops 2 weeks ago, about £8-9.
 Now, mysteriously, the same vendors are knocking them out for the above
 mentioned prices. I know people have been dissing Mills for this, but it's
 plain to see that the mark ups has been added by the shops. 
 
 
 
 
 14/1/04 6:17 PM Cobert, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 and there's a series of albums, both classic and recent ones, sold in pack
 of
 two or four on the website...
 Gwendal
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Mittwoch, 14. Januar 2004 18:55
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: Re: (313) axis
 
 
 
 Us Yanks better take advantage of Warp's 7-quid-per-album MP3 deal now;
 
 just to let you all know if you're interested, theres a warp back
 catalogue
 cd campaign going on in the UK at the minute.
 I think all the CD's are 8.99 (maybe a little cheaper)
 you can get them at www.piccadillyrecords.com, and also www.boomkat.com, I
 guess at warp too.
 _
 
 - End of message text 
 
 This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
 individual, non-business capacity and is not on
 behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.
 
 PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
 e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
 telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you
 give your consent to such monitoring
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 **
 *
 Opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and
 not Entergy-Koch Trading Limited or its affiliated companies.
 This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies
 and forwarded copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently
 transmitted from the Company, are confidential and solely for the
 use of the intended recipient. It may contain material protected by
 attorney-client privilege. If you are not listed on the To or Cc
 lines of the original email (or are not the person responsible for
 delivering to an intended recipient), then you are not an intended
 recipient and have received this email in error.  Any use by an
 unintended recipient is strictly prohibited.
 
 If you have received this email in error please notify the IT manager
 by telephone on +44 (0)20 7337 8300 or via email to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED], attaching this message. Please
 then delete this email and all attachments, and destroy any copies
 thereof.  Thank you.
 **
 *
 
 

RE: (313) axis

[Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)]

How do you explain the rise of £3/4 in the last couple of weeks from the
same shops?

-Original Message-
From: Marsel van der Wielen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 15 January 2004 9:54 
To: 313
Subject: Re: (313) axis



this is not completely true

as to the shops, they are offered pretty expensive by the several
distributors
and they offer it more expensive, as they but it in more expensive
and of course shops take their own margin.

- Original Message - 
From: Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Cobert, Gwendal [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: (313) axis


From LD:

Ryan:
From the Axis Shop it was about £5 or £6 a piece.
From UK shops 2 weeks ago, about £8-9.
Now, mysteriously, the same vendors are knocking them out for the above
mentioned prices. I know people have been dissing Mills for this, but it's
plain to see that the mark ups has been added by the shops.




14/1/04 6:17 PM Cobert, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 and there's a series of albums, both classic and recent ones, sold in pack
of
 two or four on the website...
 Gwendal

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Mittwoch, 14. Januar 2004 18:55
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: Re: (313) axis



 Us Yanks better take advantage of Warp's 7-quid-per-album MP3 deal now;

 just to let you all know if you're interested, theres a warp back
catalogue
 cd campaign going on in the UK at the minute.
 I think all the CD's are 8.99 (maybe a little cheaper)
 you can get them at www.piccadillyrecords.com, and also www.boomkat.com, I
 guess at warp too.
 _

 - End of message text 

 This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
 individual, non-business capacity and is not on
 behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

 PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
 e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
 telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you
 give your consent to such monitoring








***
Opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and 
not Entergy-Koch Trading Limited or its affiliated companies. 
This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies 
and forwarded copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently 
transmitted from the Company, are confidential and solely for the 
use of the intended recipient. It may contain material protected by 
attorney-client privilege. If you are not listed on the To or Cc 
lines of the original email (or are not the person responsible for 
delivering to an intended recipient), then you are not an intended 
recipient and have received this email in error.  Any use by an 
unintended recipient is strictly prohibited.

If you have received this email in error please notify the IT manager 
by telephone on +44 (0)20 7337 8300 or via email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], attaching this message. Please 
then delete this email and all attachments, and destroy any copies 
thereof.  Thank you.
***

Re: (313) axis

[Matt Chester]

That's a little unfair - if they're being sold to to distributors at the
same price as from the Axis store, then of course there's going to be a big
markup by the time they reach us - for a standard priced release, a
distributor takes about 30% of the final price, and the store the same.
It's all about what price they are being sold to the distributor that
determines the final sale price.

And as has been mentioned before, any label can stop their distributor from
marking the prices up above normal, let alone Axis.


- Original Message -
From: Martin
To: Cobert, Gwendal ; 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: (313) axis


From LD:

Ryan:
From the Axis Shop it was about £5 or £6 a piece.
From UK shops 2 weeks ago, about £8-9.
Now, mysteriously, the same vendors are knocking them out for the above
mentioned prices. I know people have been dissing Mills for this, but it's
plain to see that the mark ups has been added by the shops.




14/1/04 6:17 PM Cobert, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 and there's a series of albums, both classic and recent ones, sold in pack
of
 two or four on the website...
 Gwendal

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Mittwoch, 14. Januar 2004 18:55
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: Re: (313) axis



 Us Yanks better take advantage of Warp's 7-quid-per-album MP3 deal now;

 just to let you all know if you're interested, theres a warp back
catalogue
 cd campaign going on in the UK at the minute.
 I think all the CD's are 8.99 (maybe a little cheaper)
 you can get them at www.piccadillyrecords.com, and also www.boomkat.com, I
 guess at warp too.
 _

 - End of message text 

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Re: (313) axis

[Marsel van der Wielen]

no idea, ask them

rise or lower?

with rise
it could be the release was sold out at one distributor
so they did find another one, but more expensive

or visa versa
they did find another one, but more cheap

- Original Message - 
From: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Marsel van der Wielen' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 10:55 AM
Subject: RE: (313) axis


How do you explain the rise of £3/4 in the last couple of weeks from the
same shops?

-Original Message-
From: Marsel van der Wielen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 15 January 2004 9:54
To: 313
Subject: Re: (313) axis



this is not completely true

as to the shops, they are offered pretty expensive by the several
distributors
and they offer it more expensive, as they but it in more expensive
and of course shops take their own margin.

- Original Message - 
From: Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Cobert, Gwendal [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: (313) axis


From LD:

Ryan:
From the Axis Shop it was about £5 or £6 a piece.
From UK shops 2 weeks ago, about £8-9.
Now, mysteriously, the same vendors are knocking them out for the above
mentioned prices. I know people have been dissing Mills for this, but it's
plain to see that the mark ups has been added by the shops.




14/1/04 6:17 PM Cobert, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 and there's a series of albums, both classic and recent ones, sold in pack
of
 two or four on the website...
 Gwendal

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Mittwoch, 14. Januar 2004 18:55
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: Re: (313) axis



 Us Yanks better take advantage of Warp's 7-quid-per-album MP3 deal now;

 just to let you all know if you're interested, theres a warp back
catalogue
 cd campaign going on in the UK at the minute.
 I think all the CD's are 8.99 (maybe a little cheaper)
 you can get them at www.piccadillyrecords.com, and also www.boomkat.com, I
 guess at warp too.
 _

 - End of message text 

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 individual, non-business capacity and is not on
 behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

 PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
 e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
 telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you
 give your consent to such monitoring









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Opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and
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This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies
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If you have received this email in error please notify the IT manager
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***

Re: (313) axis

[Matt Chester]

Remember also that some small distributors actually buy from the larger ones
rather than the label directly, which can add another 10-20% to the final
sale price...

- Original Message -
From: Marsel van der Wielen
To: 313
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: (313) axis



no idea, ask them

rise or lower?

with rise
it could be the release was sold out at one distributor
so they did find another one, but more expensive

or visa versa
they did find another one, but more cheap

- Original Message -
From: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Marsel van der Wielen' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 10:55 AM
Subject: RE: (313) axis


How do you explain the rise of £3/4 in the last couple of weeks from the
same shops?

-Original Message-
From: Marsel van der Wielen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 15 January 2004 9:54
To: 313
Subject: Re: (313) axis



this is not completely true

as to the shops, they are offered pretty expensive by the several
distributors
and they offer it more expensive, as they but it in more expensive
and of course shops take their own margin.

- Original Message -
From: Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Cobert, Gwendal [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: (313) axis


From LD:

Ryan:
From the Axis Shop it was about £5 or £6 a piece.
From UK shops 2 weeks ago, about £8-9.
Now, mysteriously, the same vendors are knocking them out for the above
mentioned prices. I know people have been dissing Mills for this, but it's
plain to see that the mark ups has been added by the shops.




14/1/04 6:17 PM Cobert, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 and there's a series of albums, both classic and recent ones, sold in pack
of
 two or four on the website...
 Gwendal

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Mittwoch, 14. Januar 2004 18:55
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: Re: (313) axis



 Us Yanks better take advantage of Warp's 7-quid-per-album MP3 deal now;

 just to let you all know if you're interested, theres a warp back
catalogue
 cd campaign going on in the UK at the minute.
 I think all the CD's are 8.99 (maybe a little cheaper)
 you can get them at www.piccadillyrecords.com, and also www.boomkat.com, I
 guess at warp too.
 _

 - End of message text 

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 behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

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 telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you
 give your consent to such monitoring









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This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies
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If you have received this email in error please notify the IT manager
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RE: (313) axis

[Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)]

That's plausible, of course, but it strikes me as strange.
These are limited releases, and I reckon that any shop who wanted to stock
them would have bought as many as they could in the first instance. How
likely is it that Distributors would still be sitting on any after 4 weeks??
It's possible, but it doesn't seem likely. This is speculative, of course-
as is this whole thread, really.

-Original Message-
From: Marsel van der Wielen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 15 January 2004 9:58 
To: 313
Subject: Re: (313) axis



no idea, ask them

rise or lower?

with rise
it could be the release was sold out at one distributor
so they did find another one, but more expensive

or visa versa
they did find another one, but more cheap

- Original Message - 
From: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Marsel van der Wielen' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 10:55 AM
Subject: RE: (313) axis


How do you explain the rise of £3/4 in the last couple of weeks from the
same shops?

-Original Message-
From: Marsel van der Wielen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 15 January 2004 9:54
To: 313
Subject: Re: (313) axis



this is not completely true

as to the shops, they are offered pretty expensive by the several
distributors
and they offer it more expensive, as they but it in more expensive
and of course shops take their own margin.

- Original Message - 
From: Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Cobert, Gwendal [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: (313) axis


From LD:

Ryan:
From the Axis Shop it was about £5 or £6 a piece.
From UK shops 2 weeks ago, about £8-9.
Now, mysteriously, the same vendors are knocking them out for the above
mentioned prices. I know people have been dissing Mills for this, but it's
plain to see that the mark ups has been added by the shops.




14/1/04 6:17 PM Cobert, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 and there's a series of albums, both classic and recent ones, sold in pack
of
 two or four on the website...
 Gwendal

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Mittwoch, 14. Januar 2004 18:55
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: Re: (313) axis



 Us Yanks better take advantage of Warp's 7-quid-per-album MP3 deal now;

 just to let you all know if you're interested, theres a warp back
catalogue
 cd campaign going on in the UK at the minute.
 I think all the CD's are 8.99 (maybe a little cheaper)
 you can get them at www.piccadillyrecords.com, and also www.boomkat.com, I
 guess at warp too.
 _

 - End of message text 

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 behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

 PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
 e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
 telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you
 give your consent to such monitoring









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Opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and
not Entergy-Koch Trading Limited or its affiliated companies.
This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies
and forwarded copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently
transmitted from the Company, are confidential and solely for the
use of the intended recipient. It may contain material protected by
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delivering to an intended recipient), then you are not an intended
recipient and have received this email in error.  Any use by an
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If you have received this email in error please notify the IT manager
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***
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This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies 
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Re: (313) axis

[innercity]

if shops are suddenly adding #3+ after selling at a tenner for several weeks
then they're taking the mick. we were offered these by several distributors
all at the same price meaning the lowest we could sell at was #9.99 which we
did. as did the other quality stores such as rubadub, aidy@ vu, hedonism
etc...

i know from experience in leeds that certain shops associate detroit with
high cost and rareness (is that a word?) and just double their cost price to
make the selling price. they're usually the funky house and cheese stores
out to make a few quid from techno while it's popular.

simple answer is don't buy from these places and
only support those who've supported the music from day one where you'll
always get a fair price.




- Original Message -
From: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Marsel van der Wielen' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 9:55 AM
Subject: RE: (313) axis


How do you explain the rise of #3/4 in the last couple of weeks from the
same shops?

-Original Message-
From: Marsel van der Wielen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 15 January 2004 9:54
To: 313
Subject: Re: (313) axis



this is not completely true

as to the shops, they are offered pretty expensive by the several
distributors
and they offer it more expensive, as they but it in more expensive
and of course shops take their own margin.

- Original Message -
From: Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Cobert, Gwendal [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: (313) axis


From LD:

Ryan:
From the Axis Shop it was about #5 or #6 a piece.
From UK shops 2 weeks ago, about #8-9.
Now, mysteriously, the same vendors are knocking them out for the above
mentioned prices. I know people have been dissing Mills for this, but it's
plain to see that the mark ups has been added by the shops.




14/1/04 6:17 PM Cobert, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 and there's a series of albums, both classic and recent ones, sold in pack
of
 two or four on the website...
 Gwendal

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Mittwoch, 14. Januar 2004 18:55
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: Re: (313) axis



 Us Yanks better take advantage of Warp's 7-quid-per-album MP3 deal now;

 just to let you all know if you're interested, theres a warp back
catalogue
 cd campaign going on in the UK at the minute.
 I think all the CD's are 8.99 (maybe a little cheaper)
 you can get them at www.piccadillyrecords.com, and also www.boomkat.com, I
 guess at warp too.
 _

 - End of message text 

 This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
 individual, non-business capacity and is not on
 behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

 PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
 e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
 telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you
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This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies
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If you have received this email in error please notify the IT manager
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then delete this email and all attachments, and destroy any copies
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***

Re: (313) axis

[alex . bond]

Tom said
Here's a hypotherical question - would you have bought the Kai Alce record
if it had been released on a label other than Mahogani?
What if it was an import from Europe on a label you'd never heard of, with
no association to
KDJ whatsoever?

Right, I gotta hold my hands up here.
I'd say almost certainly not. (if it was again a one sided thing - maybe if
it was a full ep though)
I picked up the trackmode by the same guy.

I'm just curious as to what extent the fact that it has
KDJ's blessing would influence your decision to buy a record.

I think sometimes, with this label in particular I feel like I HAVE to pick
it up early doors because I haven't got a hope in hell of getting it later.
Sometimes in the past I've slept on things, only to hear them in a club, or
on a mix-tape, and then really really want them.

I liked the track. But, I haven't been buying hardly any records lately as
I'm skint. But, I did pick this up for the reason above, I could have quite
easily left it, and probably would have if it was on another label and I
knew I could pick it up later if it took my fancy. Obviously had I not
picked it up, I wouldnt be able to get it 6 months down the line.

so. that makes me a bit of a saddo really. or a di*khead, or a hypocrite?
hmm, oh well.

But, I swear, if all those people who dont even like house music and buy
moodymann records on sight didn't - then I might not have to do it. So I'll
blame them to make myself feel better.

I didn't buy the Mills though. So obviously I didn't feel I needed that for
some reason.

Jesus, I don't know.

_

- End of message text 

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
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behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
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RE: (313) axis

[Cobert, Gwendal]

Oh yeah, a small irritating thing about this site : they never say whether the 
tracks are those from the vinyl EP or the CD version - they used to be quite 
different, esp with the early releases. Just bitching.
Gwendal

-Original Message-
From: Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Mittwoch, 14. Januar 2004 17:37
To: atomly; 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: (313) axis


My view is no one is making you buy it, so don't.

I've no idea what Jeff's running costs are or what he needs to make back to
break even but we went thru this with Peacefrog...

Oh and warps bleep is now live:
https://www.warprecords.com/bleep




14/1/04 5:00 PM [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 [Matt Chester [EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 At the moment, if I press up 800 copies of a release it costs about
 ?1200 (less in N.America), and on a standard price to distributors
 (which = about ?5.50 in the stores) it takes about 500 sales to break
 even.  So to double that price and claim it's to cover costs is
 ridiculous.  Whilst the figures for a small independant label are
 tight as hell, I seriously doubt raising the prices will help -
 distributors and stores would take an accordingly higher cut, and
 sales would probably drop a bit as people find their addictions harder
 and harder to sustain.
 
 But the man isn't trying to just break even.  You're forgetting about
 packaging, press, etc. costs, overhead for the label (employees and
 such) and the fact that Jeff Mills actually wants to make a living off
 of this.  If he sold them for cost, it wouldn't get him anywhere.
 
 That's one thing that always struck me as odd.  I don't know how many
 times I've heard people grumble about labels or promoters making money
 off of music (not to say you were saying this or that Axis is charging
 any sort of a fair price, this is just a tangent)-- I know I even did as
 a punk teenager.  After throwing shows and releasing records, I think
 it's absurd to ask people to put that much of their money at risk and to
 devote that much time and effort to something and only be able to barely
 break even, otherwise they're a sellout.

RE: (313) axis

[Sean Creen]

I ordered See/The/Light from the Axis website and it came to slightly over
20 quid, including postage. Seems pretty reasonable to me. If a shop is
over-charging, don't use it...

Sean.

Re: (313) axis

[Michael . Elliot-Knight]

There's your answer Atomly.
I guess we'll just have to live with the fact that Jeff won't play in the
US - it's his choice and his right to choose where he lives and where he
plays and as long as he pays his taxes he's under no obligation to do
differently. I'm sure he's not the only one who does this - Europe just has
a better appreciation of the music but maybe America/Chicago has a higher
standard of living (for him). He charges more for a particular record -
don't buy it if you don't want to.

MEK



  
  Kent williams 
  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:   313 list 
313@hyperreal.org 
   cc:  
  
  01/14/04 09:26 PMSubject:  Re: (313) axis 
  

  

  




On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Do you know when the last time Jeff Mills was hired to play in Chicago?
Or
 the last time he was offered to play there?

Anyone who wants to book Jeff Mills has to get through his manager.
Easier said than done.  Frederic has told me flat out that Jeff won't
play in the US. Since I tried to talk to him about playing here, Mills
has played Detroit once, and NYC a few times.

Chicago isn't a techno town. Mani and Ken and Karl try and do stuff, but
appearances by Detroit artists in Chicago are few and far between.
Since the rave scene in Chicago is dead, and the big clubs are aimed
at the meathead crowd, the market just isn't there.

Matt McQueen would know more about it...

Re: (313) axis

[pleidy]

- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 the only belief i espoused is that no one here has the right to 
 condem the 
 man...i don't even know him, or buy his music, but damn does he 
 really owe 
 anyone to play in whatever city he lives in

I've been watching from the sidelines, but wanted to comment on what atomly and 
a few others touched on. Mills, Derrick Carter, UR or any other artist are not 
obligated to do anything for the community, but some artists do show interest 
in keeping their community alive and some don't. In a music community that is 
struggling to stay afloat, the locals personally involved in the community 
(record shops, promoters, local djs, music lovers, etc) are obviously going to 
take note of who is helping out. 

Nobody can speak for Mills' personal reasons for not djing in the US, but it is 
more than that, it is his actions that show no desire to mend whatever problems 
kept him from djing here, and no desire to keep in touch with the issues 
affecting the changing face of the local scene. Until he proves otherwise, it 
would be hard not to judge him as such. Nobody is saying he is obligated to do 
anything- but by choosing to ignore the local scene, regardless of the reason, 
he is bound to receive criticism - and the fact that he does not openly discuss 
his reasons leaves even more room for criticism..

As mentioned, UR is a good example of a successful techno-outfit from the early 
days that has NOT forgotten the value of the community, despite the decline of 
the stateside techno scene. After the move to the new building they set up 
facilities for community workshops, a new website/discussion boards, still 
doing local shows on a regular basis, and still very vocal in the ongoing 
community dialogue. These actions speak loudly to locals.

I don't think Mills owes anybody anything, but knowing the state of the Detroit 
and Chicago techno scenes, and knowing how apathetic the rest of the music 
community is to the struggling techno community- you can see where the techno 
community gets frustrated with the lack of support, not just from Mills, but 
from any number of sources. Not saying he should dj 'x' amont of times per 
year, or make specific public appearances, but any actions that show a general 
concern are appreciated. So many american artists/djs see that americans are 
not into dance culture, and instead of trying to address that issue locally, 
they just pack their flight-case and head off to Europe. Meanwhile, the other 
99% of the community who cannot afford to follow along are stuck trying to keep 
the local scene afloat. I don't think many people hate Mills over this, but it 
is a sensitive issue for locals and frustrations are occasionally vented when 
the issue comes up.

peace,
p

 
 - Original Message - 
 From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org 
 Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 7:53 PM 
 Subject: Re: (313) axis 
 
 
  
  the man lives in chicago and people dont see him there doing 
 what he's 
 love 
  for. if you cant understand that, maybe sit back and try ot 
 open your 
 mind 
  and at least see things from the perspective of another instead of 
  brow-beating them into taking on your own beliefs. how do you 
 know these 
  people wouldnt say it to his face? I know lots of people I'd go 
 off on in 
  person given the chance :) 
  
  
  
  
  - Original Message - 
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:51 PM 
  Subject: Re: (313) axis 
  
  
   why don't people attack jeff when they meet him in person 
 instead of 
 kiss 
   a** 
   
   - Original Message - 
   From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org 
   Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 6:17 PM 
   Subject: Re: (313) axis 
   
   
why dont you calm down and let people speak their opinion 
 without  attacking 
them. 
- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: 313@hyperreal.org 
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:32 PM 
Subject: Re: (313) axis 


 From: atomly [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Jeff Mills hasn't played in Chicago since 1993? despite 
 livinghere 
   for 
  years. 
 
  I think artists/musicians/whatever have a responsibility 
 to their 
  community beyond just releasing records-- art is not created 
 inside 
   some 
  sort of a vacuum. 
 
 hold up hold up...was that you i saw chillin over at ida b 
 wells...oh 
   wait 
 maybe that was cabrini green...i'm getting older i 
 forget...maybe   somewhere 
 over on the west side... 
 
 what community are you from? what responsibility does he 
 have to 
 you? 
 
  I think that Jeff Mills has a certain responsibility to help 
 foster 
   the 
  American electronic music scene being that he is an 
 electronic  musician 
  from the United States

Re: (313) axis

[Michael . Elliot-Knight]

But what if he and others in his position could take it further than that!

Galvanize this community through festivals (lukewarm overall), seminars,
clubs (gasp!), and the development of new players in the game.


Uh, yeah - he does all of this. It's called Musik und Machine.
http://www.musikundmaschine.com/index_flash.html

not many other individual artists have done this so I think Jeff is
actually on the forefront of doing exactly what you're asking him to do.


MEK

RE: (313) axis

[Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)]

Mills is a hot topic today!! :P

There is an interesting discussion occuring here:
http://www.littledetroit.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1491 regards the
upcoming DVD release. (I would be interested to hear opinions from 313
members). I will say though, and it is ONLY my opinion, that Mills is
seemingly getting a battering for no other reason than the fact that it's
Jeff Mills.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 15 January 2004 3:03 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: (313) axis






But what if he and others in his position could take it further than that!

Galvanize this community through festivals (lukewarm overall), seminars,
clubs (gasp!), and the development of new players in the game.


Uh, yeah - he does all of this. It's called Musik und Machine.
http://www.musikundmaschine.com/index_flash.html

not many other individual artists have done this so I think Jeff is
actually on the forefront of doing exactly what you're asking him to do.


MEK



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This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies 
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Re: (313) axis

[Michael . Elliot-Knight]

sorry - the whole idea that he should play in one city or another just
because he lives there and you or some else sees him there is selfish.
Mills is not some toy to be turned on whenever you feel like playing - get
real. I can understand wanting to see him but I can also put myself in the
shoes of the person we are actually talking about. Yes - he lives in
Chicago. No - he doesn't play there. Get over it.
He certainly won't play there if you get up in his face about it.

MEK



  
  /0  
  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED], 
313@hyperreal.org
  mi.net  cc:  
  
   Subject:  Re: (313) axis 
  
  01/14/04 09:53 PM 
  

  

  





the man lives in chicago and people dont see him there doing what he's love
for.  if you cant understand that, maybe sit back and try ot open your mind
and at least see things from the perspective of another instead of
brow-beating them into taking on your own beliefs.  how do you know these
people wouldnt say it to his face?  I know lots of people I'd go off on in
person given the chance :)




- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: (313) axis


 why don't people attack jeff when they meet him in person instead of kiss
 a**

 - Original Message -
 From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
 Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 6:17 PM
 Subject: Re: (313) axis


  why dont you calm down and let people speak their opinion without
 attacking
  them.
  - Original Message -
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: 313@hyperreal.org
  Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:32 PM
  Subject: Re: (313) axis
 
 
   From: atomly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jeff Mills hasn't played in Chicago since 1993? despite living here
 for
years.
  
I think artists/musicians/whatever have a responsibility to their
community beyond just releasing records-- art is not created inside
 some
sort of a vacuum.
  
   hold up hold up...was that you i saw chillin over at ida b wells...oh
 wait
   maybe that was cabrini green...i'm getting older i forget...maybe
  somewhere
   over on the west side...
  
   what community are you from? what responsibility does he have to you?
  
I think that Jeff Mills has a certain responsibility to help foster
 the
American electronic music scene being that he is an electronic
 musician
from the United States.
  
  
   o...now i see...b*tched lover.!
  
  
   yeah baby...let that envy shine through...huh...yeah, now rub a
lil
 o
   that ignorance in thereyup...
   now you beautiful
  
  
   you wanna talk about the price of the records that's fair...condeming
 him
  as
   a person is going too far...
  

Re: (313) axis

[Martin]

And I would agree, Clarke gets it, Juan does and Jeff seems to get targeted
every single month. How do people find the time to worry more about what
these guys do than making a difference by making tunes, promoting or adding
to the scene...

Martin


15/1/04 3:05 PM Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Mills is a hot topic today!! :P
 
 There is an interesting discussion occuring here:
 http://www.littledetroit.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1491 regards the
 upcoming DVD release. (I would be interested to hear opinions from 313
 members). I will say though, and it is ONLY my opinion, that Mills is
 seemingly getting a battering for no other reason than the fact that it's
 Jeff Mills.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 15 January 2004 3:03
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: Re: (313) axis
 
 
 
 
 
 
 But what if he and others in his position could take it further than that!
 
 Galvanize this community through festivals (lukewarm overall), seminars,
 clubs (gasp!), and the development of new players in the game.
 
 
 Uh, yeah - he does all of this. It's called Musik und Machine.
 http://www.musikundmaschine.com/index_flash.html
 
 not many other individual artists have done this so I think Jeff is
 actually on the forefront of doing exactly what you're asking him to do.
 
 
 MEK
 
 
 
 **
 *
 Opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and
 not Entergy-Koch Trading Limited or its affiliated companies.
 This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies
 and forwarded copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently
 transmitted from the Company, are confidential and solely for the
 use of the intended recipient. It may contain material protected by
 attorney-client privilege. If you are not listed on the To or Cc
 lines of the original email (or are not the person responsible for
 delivering to an intended recipient), then you are not an intended
 recipient and have received this email in error.  Any use by an
 unintended recipient is strictly prohibited.
 
 If you have received this email in error please notify the IT manager
 by telephone on +44 (0)20 7337 8300 or via email to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED], attaching this message. Please
 then delete this email and all attachments, and destroy any copies
 thereof.  Thank you.
 **
 *
 
 

Re: (313) axis

[pleidy]

- Original Message -

 But what if he and others in his position could take it further 
 than that!
 
 Galvanize this community through festivals (lukewarm overall), 
 seminars,clubs (gasp!), and the development of new players in the 
 game.
 
 Uh, yeah - he does all of this. It's called Musik und Machine.
 http://www.musikundmaschine.com/index_flash.html

Thats in Germany though. To simplify my previous post in light of the last 
couple posts: I sort of see this issue as comparable to the difference between 
socialism and capitalism. The capitalists head over to Europe where the capital 
is at for the dance music industry. The socialists are community driven and are 
in it primarily for the general welfare and progression of the local community. 
Of course there are many in-betweens, but underground music scenes have 
traditionally avoided capitlist structures- sometimes as a philosophical 
reaction against the state of the mainstream music industry, and sometimes as 
an involuntary action due to lack of resources. When it comes down to business, 
there are many opposing viewpoints both within and outside the underground 
community. I think the opinions in this thread have been reflecting those 
various philosophies of the dance community and are all worthy of consideration.

Re: (313) axis

[alugo]

Thank you pleidy, for understanding and expanding on my point.

Peace,
Alex
 - Original Message -
 
  But what if he and others in his position could take it further 
  than that!
  
  Galvanize this community through festivals (lukewarm overall), 
  seminars,clubs (gasp!), and the development of new players in the 
  game.
  
  Uh, yeah - he does all of this. It's called Musik und Machine.
  http://www.musikundmaschine.com/index_flash.html
 
 Thats in Germany though. To simplify my previous post in light of the last 
 couple posts: I sort of see this issue as comparable to the difference 
 between 
 socialism and capitalism. The capitalists head over to Europe where the 
 capital 
 is at for the dance music industry. The socialists are community driven and 
 are 
 in it primarily for the general welfare and progression of the local 
 community. 
 Of course there are many in-betweens, but underground music scenes have 
 traditionally avoided capitlist structures- sometimes as a philosophical 
 reaction against the state of the mainstream music industry, and sometimes as 
 an 
 involuntary action due to lack of resources. When it comes down to business, 
 there are many opposing viewpoints both within and outside the underground 
 community. I think the opinions in this thread have been reflecting those 
 various philosophies of the dance community and are all worthy of 
 consideration.
 
 

Re: (313) axis

[badi]

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

i think your name is peter right? ok...you make a rational argument...the
argument that he could 'single handedly transform the american scene' is
not...nor is it true...moby could transform the american scene before jeff
mills...but, if jeff mills spends the majority of his time in europe playing
shows and throwing festivals it's because that's who gives him the most
support...when americans buy as much of his music as europe does...i'm sure
he'll spend more time here...that's business...as far as the community
goes...they're never satisfied...if he was a perfect hero they would still
complain...or they would be silent...the sentiments 'against' jeff mills are
far stronger than the sentiments 'for' the very gallant efforts of derrick
may for putting up his own money to make the movement festival...
what makes this a community?...do they call radio stations? do they mail
letters to congress so they can have festivals and venues? or do they just
collect records, go to clubs to see said artists and make music themselves?
the people in this community treat each other like sh*t most of the time and
totally ignore each other the rest...i think alex mentioned the unrecognized
producers...let me say this...this so called community 'could' be the answer
to the big-shots ignoring the little guys, but the 'community' ignores them
too!

- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 7:46 AM
Subject: Re: (313) axis


 - Original Message -

  But what if he and others in his position could take it further
  than that!
 
  Galvanize this community through festivals (lukewarm overall),
  seminars,clubs (gasp!), and the development of new players in the
  game.
 
  Uh, yeah - he does all of this. It's called Musik und Machine.
  http://www.musikundmaschine.com/index_flash.html

 Thats in Germany though. To simplify my previous post in light of the last
couple posts: I sort of see this issue as comparable to the difference
between socialism and capitalism. The capitalists head over to Europe where
the capital is at for the dance music industry. The socialists are community
driven and are in it primarily for the general welfare and progression of
the local community. Of course there are many in-betweens, but underground
music scenes have traditionally avoided capitlist structures- sometimes as a
philosophical reaction against the state of the mainstream music industry,
and sometimes as an involuntary action due to lack of resources. When it
comes down to business, there are many opposing viewpoints both within and
outside the underground community. I think the opinions in this thread have
been reflecting those various philosophies of the dance community and are
all worthy of consideration.

Re: (313) axis

[Thomas D. Cox, Jr.]

-- Original Message --
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date:  Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:59:25 -0800

but, if jeff mills spends the majority of his time in europe 
playing
shows and throwing festivals it's because that's who gives him 
the most
support...when americans buy as much of his music as europe 
does...i'm sure
he'll spend more time here...that's business...

that actually makes no business sense at all. making more sense 
would be dividing your time so that you make your existing 
customers happy but also making inroads to getting new fans by 
playing places where you might not sell as many records. i have no 
qualms with mr mills record pricing or whatever, but i do think it 
makes no sense to live in the US at least part of the time yet 
spend no time building a fanbase here. 

tom 


andythepooh.com


 
   

RE: (313) axis

[Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)]

...but if Mills has been in the ascendancy for 10-15 years, perhaps it would
have already happened by now, if it was going to at all?

-Original Message-
From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 15 January 2004 4:45 
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: (313) axis


-- Original Message --
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date:  Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:59:25 -0800

but, if jeff mills spends the majority of his time in europe 
playing
shows and throwing festivals it's because that's who gives him 
the most
support...when americans buy as much of his music as europe 
does...i'm sure
he'll spend more time here...that's business...

that actually makes no business sense at all. making more sense 
would be dividing your time so that you make your existing 
customers happy but also making inroads to getting new fans by 
playing places where you might not sell as many records. i have no 
qualms with mr mills record pricing or whatever, but i do think it 
makes no sense to live in the US at least part of the time yet 
spend no time building a fanbase here. 

tom 


andythepooh.com


 
   



***
Opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and 
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This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies 
and forwarded copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently 
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Re: (313) axis

[Dennis DeSantis]

Thomas D. Cox, Jr. wrote:

that actually makes no business sense at all. making more sense 
would be dividing your time so that you make your existing 
customers happy but also making inroads to getting new fans by 
playing places where you might not sell as many records. i have no 
qualms with mr mills record pricing or whatever, but i do think it 
makes no sense to live in the US at least part of the time yet 
spend no time building a fanbase here. 


When Mills spoke at Musik und Maschine this summer, the sense I got was 
that he felt he was playing TOO much.  In that situation, he's probably 
attempting to maximize his profits per gig, rather than trying to

to cultivate a market.

--
Dennis DeSantis
www.dennisdesantis.com

RE: (313) axis

[Thomas D. Cox, Jr.]

-- Original Message --
From: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT) [EMAIL PROTECTED]

...but if Mills has been in the ascendancy for 10-15 years, 
perhaps it would
have already happened by now, if it was going to at all?

yeah giving up must be the thing to do. not. 

i dont think jeff would have any problems selling out shows in 
bigger cities in the US. europe is different because of the close 
proximity of well populated cities and countries to each other and 
the cheapness of plane and train travel. here, if he stuck to the 
big cities, he would have tons of fans and work on gaining even 
more. 

tom 


andythepooh.com


 
   

RE: (313) axis

[Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)]

yeah giving up must be the thing to do. not.

I never said that!!

-Original Message-
From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 15 January 2004 4:52 
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: (313) axis


-- Original Message --
From: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT) [EMAIL PROTECTED]

...but if Mills has been in the ascendancy for 10-15 years, 
perhaps it would
have already happened by now, if it was going to at all?

yeah giving up must be the thing to do. not. 

i dont think jeff would have any problems selling out shows in 
bigger cities in the US. europe is different because of the close 
proximity of well populated cities and countries to each other and 
the cheapness of plane and train travel. here, if he stuck to the 
big cities, he would have tons of fans and work on gaining even 
more. 

tom 


andythepooh.com


 
   



***
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Re: (313) axis

[Thomas D. Cox, Jr.]

-- Original Message --
From: Dennis DeSantis [EMAIL PROTECTED]

When Mills spoke at Musik und Maschine this summer, the sense I 
got was 
that he felt he was playing TOO much.  In that situation, he's 
probably 
attempting to maximize his profits per gig, rather than trying to
to cultivate a market.

maybe hes playing too much to the same people over and over. how 
many times has he played at Lost in the past year? he's never in 
the past 7 years (and i think maybe ever) played within a 4 hour 
drive from pittsburgh. his set at movement was the closest i can 
remember recently, and detroit is a 5 hour drive from here. that 
means that most people who are fans from columbus, cincinatti, 
cleveland, etc have probably never seen him unless they drove to 
detroit. but thats a pretty decent sized market to basically 
neglect despite its relative proximity to places he has lived. 
instead he'll play lost again, or whatever hip techno club there 
is in germany again. its kind of annoying, really. 

tom 


andythepooh.com


 
   

RE: (313) axis

[Thomas D. Cox, Jr.]

-- Original Message --
From: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT) [EMAIL PROTECTED]

yeah giving up must be the thing to do. not.

I never said that!!

i know you didnt, but it certainly seems like thats what mr mills 
is saying by not playing here. 

tom 


andythepooh.com


 
   

RE: (313) axis

[Sean Creen]

tom wrote:

but thats a pretty decent sized market to basically
neglect despite its relative proximity to places he has lived.
instead he'll play lost again, or whatever hip techno club there
is in germany again. its kind of annoying, really. 

He'll play wherever he's booked to play, which as has already been
mentioned, is largely down to his agent. Agents form relationships with
promoters and the same acts tend to deal with the same promoters over a
period of time. I don't think its necessarily something to take personally.
I share your frustration a lot of the time. It takes a long time for a lot
of DJs to play here in Belfast (Mills hadn't done until pretty recently),
but once they do play, they tend to return to the same club multiple times.

RE: (313) axis

[Gary . Girard]

Didn't Mills avoid the U.K for years due to visa problems?

I thought it was only the last couple of years that he'd been playing here
regularly again.




Sean Creen

[EMAIL PROTECTED]   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 
313@hyperreal.org  
nwave.comcc:   

  Fax to:   

15/01/2004Subject: RE: (313) axis   

16:55   









tom wrote:

but thats a pretty decent sized market to basically
neglect despite its relative proximity to places he has lived.
instead he'll play lost again, or whatever hip techno club there
is in germany again. its kind of annoying, really. 

He'll play wherever he's booked to play, which as has already been
mentioned, is largely down to his agent. Agents form relationships with
promoters and the same acts tend to deal with the same promoters over a
period of time. I don't think its necessarily something to take personally.
I share your frustration a lot of the time. It takes a long time for a lot
of DJs to play here in Belfast (Mills hadn't done until pretty recently),
but once they do play, they tend to return to the same club multiple times.

RE: (313) axis

[placid]

-Original Message-
Didn't Mills avoid the U.K for years due to visa problems?

The interest rate they charge is disgusting...

Re: (313) axis

[alugo]

As commendable as you may find that, I don't think Berlin has any problems 
with its community as far as techno support goes. I was speaking of 
Detroit when I wrote community.

Peace,
Alex



[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
01/15/2004 10:03 AM

To
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc
313@hyperreal.org
Subject
Re: (313) axis










But what if he and others in his position could take it further than 
that!

Galvanize this community through festivals (lukewarm overall), seminars,
clubs (gasp!), and the development of new players in the game.


Uh, yeah - he does all of this. It's called Musik und Machine.
http://www.musikundmaschine.com/index_flash.html

not many other individual artists have done this so I think Jeff is
actually on the forefront of doing exactly what you're asking him to do.


MEK

Re: (313) axis

[badi]

my earlier post was in haste because unlike mr mills i'm not rich so i had a
job interview...maybe someday as many people will buy some music from me :)

 I think the opinions in this thread have been reflecting those various
philosophies of the dance community and are all worthy of consideration.
absolutley, but you make rational arguments while others assinate
character...


The capitalists head over to Europe where the capital is at for the dance
music industry.
The socialists are community driven and are in it primarily for the general
welfare and progression of the local community.

ok...as an artist who has been to europe to do shows i can speak to this a
littlewhile i haven't seen 6-10,000 per show, i have felt the general
warmth and appreciative attitude from the audiences...so socially the
environment is better as well...it also is an eye opener to walk into a cafe
and hear electronic music as the background music, or to watch the news and
hear a recognizable electronic song as the backdrop for a lead in...there
are lots of social reasons to go to europe if you do electronic music as
well...

there are many reasons electronic music doesn't fare better in the US...some
political, some cultural, but some of it has to do with the attitudes of the
people who follow it in the states...placing the fate of electronic music on
jeff mills is niether accurate nor healthy (psychologically)

Re: (313) axis

[yussel]

 Matt McQueen would know more about it...

No offence to Matt, but I don;t think he really goes out to much in
chicago.

Atomly goes out every night0 so he would probably know better.

RE: (313) axis

[yussel]

embarrassed for him for crashing mixes and distroting the system.
embarrassed for the mindless people who didn't seem to notice.
embarrassed for my friends who got wasted just to enjoy
themselves (once it was clear the music wouldn't do)
embarrassed for the out-of-towners who travelled miles for something
special
embarrassed for the soundguy who wasn't 'allowed' to make the most obvious
technical corrections to the mixer that Mills had jacked
embarrassed for this culture for continuing to hold up someone who so
clearly doesn't deserve it anymore
embarrassed for myself for never learning my lesson and continuing to
bother

fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, fool me three
times...




On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT) wrote:

 Embarassed about what?

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 14 January 2004 11:43
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: /0; 313@hyperreal.org; atomly
 Subject: Re: (313) axis


 having been disappointed (borderline embarrased) the last 3 times I've
 seen mills- i don't think you could pay me to leave the house and go see
 him.

 maybe if i was already there...

 or if everyoen i know was going, making it more of a social thing.

 On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 
 
 
  I guess its his choice
 
  exactly.
 
  I still would pay 15 bux to go see him
 
  as would I
 
  I think too many people expect too much from him or come to his shows with
  expectations of what a Jeff Mills show is and then when he doesn't deliver
  their preconceived notion they get in his face. I know it's happened
  because he's mentioned it on his discussion board.
 
  I don't think Detroit is under him - possibly he thinks it's behind him,
  as in his past. Maybe there's bad memories - who the f*ck but Jeff Mills
  and those whom he's told really know so people should just let the man be
  and go see him where he *does* play.
 
  and the high price on the limited 3x12 - well maybe he figures he has to
  make his money NOW because maybe he figures who ever is going to buy it
  will upload it to soulseek or what ever file share they are using and then
  everyone will have it for free.
 
  MEK
 
 
 
/0
[EMAIL PROTECTED]To:   atomly
 [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mi.net  cc:
 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject:  Re: (313) axis
01/14/04 05:20 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
  its his loss at this point.  maybe he's afraid he cant compete with the
 new
  talents coming out of detroit now.  maybe detroits under him.  I guess its
  his choice, theres more gig opportunity than there is mills to go around
 
  even tho he still plays the same records as 3 years ago, I still would pay
  15 bux to go see him if he could stomach a night in detroit :)
 
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: atomly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
  Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 5:49 PM
  Subject: Re: (313) axis
 
 
  
  
  
  
   Well isn't that a pompous response?
  
   No - it wasn't pompous, it was sarcastic. Crack a dictionary.
  
   Do you know when the last time Jeff Mills was hired to play in Chicago?
  Or
   the last time he was offered to play there?
   Just because he's from Detroit or lives in Chicago doesn't obligate him
  to
   play there - I could imagine that there *could* exist for him many
  personal
   issues with people in Detroit (or Chicago) that would cause him to say
 to
   himself - you know, self, I'd only go back to Detroit if I was given a
   million dollars
  
   I think artists/musicians/whatever have a responsibility to their
   community beyond just releasing records--
  
   As several people have stated - Jeff does give back to his community -
 he
   just doesn't do it in the public eye for loads of attention or to get
 the
   ok from people like yourself. It's called being humble.
  
   but instead is essentially plundering and pilfering
   whatever he can from the apparently willing fans.
  
   I'd still like to know what you think you are personally being robbed
 of.
   You've seen him at a bar - are you pissed because he's relaxing instead
  of
   DJing?
  
   I've known many DJs and artists who live in Minneapolis but don't play
   here. They prefer to play in Europe or other cities because they get a
   better response and they like to keep the city they live in as a sort of
   quiet retreat from where they perform.
  
   makes sense to me
   MEK
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 atomly
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
  313@hyperreal.org
 m   cc:
  Subject:  Re: (313) axis
 01/14/04 04:18 PM
  
  
  
  
  
  
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I agree - all those Jeff Mills records I

Re: (313) axis

[yussel]

 Jesus, I don't know.

the most sage-like thing said this week.



 _

 - End of message text 

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Re: (313) axis

[Rebelbass/bookings]

hello. we posted this issue a while ago op my (dutch) weblog.
it has something to do with the distributers.. One claims that they have the
exclusive rights for europe. (it was a belgium distributer) later on I had a
conversation with some shop owners, who claimed that if they wanted to make
any profit they had to marge on the records up to 80%.

We also tried to ask axis for an explanation. but it did not work out so
far.

kind regards
aida

-- 
kijk ondertussen op:
Rebelbass weblog @ 3voor12: http://www.3voor12.vpro.nl/rebelbass
Rebelbass home:  http://www.rebelbass.com

 So, how come that new Jeff Mills project is £10.99 per twelve?
 
 That's £32.97 if you want the triple LP. ($60.50 Eu47.80)
 
 See The Light. I certainly have Jeff, I've seen your porsche and all, you
 thieving git.
 
 and that Mahogani. £7.49 for half a one sided 12?
 pah.
 
 Is there a reason? am I missing something?
 
 answers on a postcard please.
 
 many thanks.
 
 alex
 *pricing watchdog co-ordinator*
 or
 *moaning dumb fool mug punter*
 
 _
 
 - End of message text 
 
 This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
 individual, non-business capacity and is not on
 behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.
 
 PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
 e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
 telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you
 give your consent to such monitoring
 
 
 
 
 

RE: (313) axis

[Robert Taylor]

He will be soon be advertising in the colour supplements of  Sunday newsapapers.
The latest EP by internationally acclaimed DJ and recording artist, Jeffrey 
Mills, comes to you individually numbered and with a genuine certificate of 
authenticity. Yours for only £2.99 in 24 individual monthly payments.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 2:48 PM
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: (313) axis


So, how come that new Jeff Mills project is £10.99 per twelve?

That's £32.97 if you want the triple LP. ($60.50 Eu47.80)

See The Light. I certainly have Jeff, I've seen your porsche and all, you
thieving git.

and that Mahogani. £7.49 for half a one sided 12?
pah.

Is there a reason? am I missing something?

answers on a postcard please.

many thanks.

alex
*pricing watchdog co-ordinator*
or
*moaning dumb fool mug punter*

_

- End of message text 

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you
give your consent to such monitoring




#
Note:

Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily 
represent 
those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This 
email 
and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of 
the 
individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this 
email in 
error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thank You.
#

RE: (313) axis

[Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)]

Mahogani

What is this, Alex??

I agree, the prices are pretty steep. They were approx £8 a go, a month ago
- the price is increasing steadily.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 14 January 2004 2:48 
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: (313) axis


So, how come that new Jeff Mills project is £10.99 per twelve?

That's £32.97 if you want the triple LP. ($60.50 Eu47.80)

See The Light. I certainly have Jeff, I've seen your porsche and all, you
thieving git.

and that Mahogani. £7.49 for half a one sided 12?
pah.

Is there a reason? am I missing something?

answers on a postcard please.

many thanks.

alex
*pricing watchdog co-ordinator*
or
*moaning dumb fool mug punter*

_

- End of message text 

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you
give your consent to such monitoring





***
Opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and 
not Entergy-Koch Trading Limited or its affiliated companies. 
This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies 
and forwarded copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently 
transmitted from the Company, are confidential and solely for the 
use of the intended recipient. It may contain material protected by 
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***

Re: (313) axis

[Rebelbass/bookings]

oyes, and one shopowner told us that there were only 1000 copys worldwide..
I  think he saw another kind of light...
;)

 Mahogani
 
 What is this, Alex??
 
 I agree, the prices are pretty steep. They were approx £8 a go, a month ago
 - the price is increasing steadily.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 14 January 2004 2:48
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: (313) axis
 
 
 So, how come that new Jeff Mills project is £10.99 per twelve?
 
 That's £32.97 if you want the triple LP. ($60.50 Eu47.80)
 
 See The Light. I certainly have Jeff, I've seen your porsche and all, you
 thieving git.
 
 and that Mahogani. £7.49 for half a one sided 12?
 pah.
 
 Is there a reason? am I missing something?
 
 answers on a postcard please.
 
 many thanks.
 
 alex
 *pricing watchdog co-ordinator*
 or
 *moaning dumb fool mug punter*
 
 _
 
 - End of message text 
 
 This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
 individual, non-business capacity and is not on
 behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.
 
 PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
 e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
 telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you
 give your consent to such monitoring
 
 
 
 
 
 **
 *
 Opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and
 not Entergy-Koch Trading Limited or its affiliated companies.
 This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies
 and forwarded copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently
 transmitted from the Company, are confidential and solely for the
 use of the intended recipient. It may contain material protected by
 attorney-client privilege. If you are not listed on the To or Cc
 lines of the original email (or are not the person responsible for
 delivering to an intended recipient), then you are not an intended
 recipient and have received this email in error.  Any use by an
 unintended recipient is strictly prohibited.
 
 If you have received this email in error please notify the IT manager
 by telephone on +44 (0)20 7337 8300 or via email to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED], attaching this message. Please
 then delete this email and all attachments, and destroy any copies
 thereof.  Thank you.
 **
 *
 
 
 

RE: (313) axis

[robin]

hmmm well it's these kind of things that make me grumble too. the
argument that if you don't like the price don't buy it doesn't wash
either (vinyl is an addiction to most around here)...

so mebbe vinyl is becoming more of a niche thing (most independent stuff
has runs of say 1500 if yer lucky) and this is a way of recouping the
costs. if you follow that through we're looking at a new price for 12s
aren't we? but won't this mean vinyl becomes more niche?

the above angle only holds for mahogani tho, not axis due to their
respective sizes.


robin...

- So, how come that new Jeff Mills project is £10.99 per twelve?
- 
- That's £32.97 if you want the triple LP. ($60.50 Eu47.80)
- 
- See The Light. I certainly have Jeff, I've seen your 
- porsche and all, you
- thieving git.
- 
- and that Mahogani. £7.49 for half a one sided 12?
- pah.
- 
- Is there a reason? am I missing something?
- 
- answers on a postcard please.
- 
- many thanks.
- 
- alex
- *pricing watchdog co-ordinator*
- or
- *moaning dumb fool mug punter*

Re: (313) axis

[Tom Churchill]

 So, how come that new Jeff Mills project is £10.99 per twelve?

It's ridiculous isn't it? Supposedly it's because they're limited to 2000
copies. But going by that logic, I could sell Emoticon stuff for £20 because
they're limited to 500 copies!

Also there's a message on the sleeve saying 'Support those who try to make a
difference' - well I'd be more inclined to support him if he charged the
same for his records as every other struggling independent.

 and that Mahogani. £7.49 for half a one sided 12?

Yeah, they really are taking the p!ss with that...

Re: (313) axis

[Matt Chester]

I'm sorry, but I see no decent excuses for this kind of pricing whatsoever,
especially for a label as huge as Axis.  As was the case with the Peacefrog
limited editions, it's blatently just using peoples addiction to rare vinyl
as an excuse for jacking the prices through the roof to make a large profit.
I'm all for limited releases, but it's just cheap to charge more for them.

At the moment, if I press up 800 copies of a release it costs about £1200
(less in N.America), and on a standard price to distributors (which = about
£5.50 in the stores) it takes about 500 sales to break even.  So to double
that price and claim it's to cover costs is ridiculous.  Whilst the figures
for a small independant label are tight as hell, I seriously doubt raising
the prices will help - distributors and stores would take an accordingly
higher cut, and sales would probably drop a bit as people find their
addictions harder and harder to sustain.

For Axis, it strikes me as pure greed - they know damn well that they will
sell out every single copy, and the profit to them will be huge (percentage
wise, at least).  The bit about prices being forced up by the distributors
is ridiculous - a label with the clout of Jeff's can easily keep their
distributor to a set standard markup.  It just seems like elitism - he knows
people lap up everything he puts out, and can basically charge what he
wants.   People might complain, but they'll still shell out...  Leaving less
cash to support other, smaller outfits...

Gr ;-)


- Original Message -
From: robin
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 3:00 PM
Subject: RE: (313) axis



hmmm well it's these kind of things that make me grumble too. the
argument that if you don't like the price don't buy it doesn't wash
either (vinyl is an addiction to most around here)...

so mebbe vinyl is becoming more of a niche thing (most independent stuff
has runs of say 1500 if yer lucky) and this is a way of recouping the
costs. if you follow that through we're looking at a new price for 12s
aren't we? but won't this mean vinyl becomes more niche?

the above angle only holds for mahogani tho, not axis due to their
respective sizes.


robin...

- So, how come that new Jeff Mills project is £10.99 per twelve?
-
- That's £32.97 if you want the triple LP. ($60.50 Eu47.80)
-
- See The Light. I certainly have Jeff, I've seen your
- porsche and all, you
- thieving git.
-
- and that Mahogani. £7.49 for half a one sided 12?
- pah.
-
- Is there a reason? am I missing something?
-
- answers on a postcard please.
-
- many thanks.
-
- alex
- *pricing watchdog co-ordinator*
- or
- *moaning dumb fool mug punter*

RE: (313) axis

[placid]

Can we have a quick show of hands...  who bought see / the / light...

*hand goes up*

although I got mine from the axis shop along with the 'alarms' and
'condor to mallorca' remixes...

-Original Message-
From: Matt Chester [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 14 January 2004 15:35
To: 313 Detroit
Subject: Re: (313) axis

I'm sorry, but I see no decent excuses for this kind of pricing
whatsoever,
especially for a label as huge as Axis.  As was the case with the
Peacefrog
limited editions, it's blatently just using peoples addiction to rare
vinyl
as an excuse for jacking the prices through the roof to make a large
profit.
I'm all for limited releases, but it's just cheap to charge more for
them.

At the moment, if I press up 800 copies of a release it costs about
£1200
(less in N.America), and on a standard price to distributors (which =
about
£5.50 in the stores) it takes about 500 sales to break even.  So to
double
that price and claim it's to cover costs is ridiculous.  Whilst the
figures
for a small independant label are tight as hell, I seriously doubt
raising
the prices will help - distributors and stores would take an accordingly
higher cut, and sales would probably drop a bit as people find their
addictions harder and harder to sustain.

For Axis, it strikes me as pure greed - they know damn well that they
will
sell out every single copy, and the profit to them will be huge
(percentage
wise, at least).  The bit about prices being forced up by the
distributors
is ridiculous - a label with the clout of Jeff's can easily keep their
distributor to a set standard markup.  It just seems like elitism - he
knows
people lap up everything he puts out, and can basically charge what he
wants.   People might complain, but they'll still shell out...  Leaving
less
cash to support other, smaller outfits...

Gr ;-)


- Original Message -
From: robin
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 3:00 PM
Subject: RE: (313) axis



hmmm well it's these kind of things that make me grumble too. the
argument that if you don't like the price don't buy it doesn't wash
either (vinyl is an addiction to most around here)...

so mebbe vinyl is becoming more of a niche thing (most independent stuff
has runs of say 1500 if yer lucky) and this is a way of recouping the
costs. if you follow that through we're looking at a new price for 12s
aren't we? but won't this mean vinyl becomes more niche?

the above angle only holds for mahogani tho, not axis due to their
respective sizes.


robin...

- So, how come that new Jeff Mills project is £10.99 per twelve?
-
- That's £32.97 if you want the triple LP. ($60.50 Eu47.80)
-
- See The Light. I certainly have Jeff, I've seen your
- porsche and all, you
- thieving git.
-
- and that Mahogani. £7.49 for half a one sided 12?
- pah.
-
- Is there a reason? am I missing something?
-
- answers on a postcard please.
-
- many thanks.
-
- alex
- *pricing watchdog co-ordinator*
- or
- *moaning dumb fool mug punter*

Re: (313) axis

[alex . bond]

Right, everyone made some very interesting points there.

Aida, thanks for the info. I sort of half thought it would be something
like that.

Right, so say in the future the price of vinyl HAS to go up. I reckon
pretty much everyone that buys records would be prepared to pay a little
extra, just to get their vinyl - it's like Robin says, its becoming a niche
market.

BUT, what I can't stomach, is exactly what Tom says..
Also there's a message on the sleeve saying 'Support those who try to make
a
difference' - well I'd be more inclined to support him if he charged the
same for his records as every other struggling independent.

There's loads of little independents that bust their asses (Tom - yours is
one for sure) and still put their records out for the standard price.
Jesus, how come I can buy say, a strand record on delsin (wicked artist
from detroit) for £5.99 or whatever. I mean, Jeff makes his own material
for his label. I appreciate he has to see himself getting paid for the time
he spends in the studio on whatever project he is doing, but come on. All
these little independants are paying small advances to people, taking a
real risk. He doesn't even have to do that.

I can't for the life of me see why he has to charge extra - I just can't
see it. There's no posh gatefold sleeve, the vinyl isn't better quality
than any where else. And the ltd thing just isn't any sort of argument in
my book at all. Hey, if you want to do something ltd, then so be it -
you're going to make less money than if you sell 5000, thats just the way
it is. I wonder if he maybe thinks genuinely that the punter wants a ltd
record? If so, I'm pretty sure he got bad advice there.

(But for the real reason, I suppose we should blame ebay and the people
who bid
insane amounts even for currently available releases..)

Yes! deffo. Thats a real factor in especially the Mahogani records - they
get snapped up as everyone knows they'll be worth more in the future. All
these electronica kids who obsessively buy Moodymann, and don't even buy
ANY other house or garage cos they don't like it wind me up. They even
'hate' disco. Seems backwards to me when moodymanns records are all disco.
they're just jumping the bandwagon forcing prices up.

 and that Mahogani. £7.49 for half a one sided 12?
Yeah, they really are taking the p!ss with that...

innit. this mug bought one as well. Not for the first time either.
p.s Ryan - Mahogani is moodymann's label.

MattFor Axis, it strikes me as pure greed - they know damn well that they
will
sell out every single copy, and the profit to them will be huge
(percentage
wise, at least).  The bit about prices being forced up by the distributors
is ridiculous - a label with the clout of Jeff's can easily keep their
distributor to a set standard markup.  It just seems like elitism - he
knows
people lap up everything he puts out, and can basically charge what he
wants.   People might complain, but they'll still shell out...  Leaving
less
cash to support other, smaller outfits...
Gr ;-)

Spot on. I certainly can't see another reason.

alex
_

- End of message text 

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you
give your consent to such monitoring

Re: (313) axis

[Matt Chester]

Not me, can't afford it ;-)

- Original Message -
From: placid
To: 'Matt Chester' ; '313 Detroit'
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 3:38 PM
Subject: RE: (313) axis


Can we have a quick show of hands...  who bought see / the / light...

*hand goes up*

although I got mine from the axis shop along with the 'alarms' and
'condor to mallorca' remixes...

-Original Message-
From: Matt Chester [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 14 January 2004 15:35
To: 313 Detroit
Subject: Re: (313) axis

I'm sorry, but I see no decent excuses for this kind of pricing
whatsoever,
especially for a label as huge as Axis.  As was the case with the
Peacefrog
limited editions, it's blatently just using peoples addiction to rare
vinyl
as an excuse for jacking the prices through the roof to make a large
profit.
I'm all for limited releases, but it's just cheap to charge more for
them.

At the moment, if I press up 800 copies of a release it costs about
£1200
(less in N.America), and on a standard price to distributors (which =
about
£5.50 in the stores) it takes about 500 sales to break even.  So to
double
that price and claim it's to cover costs is ridiculous.  Whilst the
figures
for a small independant label are tight as hell, I seriously doubt
raising
the prices will help - distributors and stores would take an accordingly
higher cut, and sales would probably drop a bit as people find their
addictions harder and harder to sustain.

For Axis, it strikes me as pure greed - they know damn well that they
will
sell out every single copy, and the profit to them will be huge
(percentage
wise, at least).  The bit about prices being forced up by the
distributors
is ridiculous - a label with the clout of Jeff's can easily keep their
distributor to a set standard markup.  It just seems like elitism - he
knows
people lap up everything he puts out, and can basically charge what he
wants.   People might complain, but they'll still shell out...  Leaving
less
cash to support other, smaller outfits...

Gr ;-)


- Original Message -
From: robin
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 3:00 PM
Subject: RE: (313) axis



hmmm well it's these kind of things that make me grumble too. the
argument that if you don't like the price don't buy it doesn't wash
either (vinyl is an addiction to most around here)...

so mebbe vinyl is becoming more of a niche thing (most independent stuff
has runs of say 1500 if yer lucky) and this is a way of recouping the
costs. if you follow that through we're looking at a new price for 12s
aren't we? but won't this mean vinyl becomes more niche?

the above angle only holds for mahogani tho, not axis due to their
respective sizes.


robin...

- So, how come that new Jeff Mills project is £10.99 per twelve?
-
- That's £32.97 if you want the triple LP. ($60.50 Eu47.80)
-
- See The Light. I certainly have Jeff, I've seen your
- porsche and all, you
- thieving git.
-
- and that Mahogani. £7.49 for half a one sided 12?
- pah.
-
- Is there a reason? am I missing something?
-
- answers on a postcard please.
-
- many thanks.
-
- alex
- *pricing watchdog co-ordinator*
- or
- *moaning dumb fool mug punter*