Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Windows LO with JAWS

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
As i understand it ...

i think the Apache Open Office licensing is somewhat more proprietary so we
can't legally copy their code.  They can copy our's.

This led to IBM giving Apache a copy of all their accesibility code from
their Lotus Symphony Suite.

Back when Sun owned OpenOffice, back then called OO.o, there were numerous
downstream projects such as IBM's Lotus Symphony, Go-OO (as used in many
versions of Linux), NeoOffice (Mac) and others.  Each added extra code or
re-wrote parts and each had it's own niche market.  When Sun got taken over
by Oracle many of Sun's Open Source projects forked.

Since then most of the old projects downstream of OO.o have merged into
LibreOffice along with nearly all the personnel and community that had been
working on OO.o.  IBM were the exception.  They didn't want to make their
code Free for everyone to copy so they gave it to the Apache Foundation
(Plc?).

However, along with many other office suites and office programs, we
both/all use the same formats as each other.  The "Open Document Format",
known as ODF, unites us in ways that different versions of MS Office have
never been consistent with each other.  Oddly quite a few people work in
both projects so in some ways we are still 1 community but with 2 official
organisations and 2 competing products! :)

Of course we can still all use the older MS Formats (.doc and .xls etc) to
share documents with other people but it's usually best to keep an
'original' in ODF rather than rely on MS's unreliable formats.

The ODF for text-based documents (ie done on word-processors such as
Writer) is .odt - the ODF for spreadsheets is .ods

I may have missed a wrinkle or two but that is all as i understand it.


So hopefully Apache Open Office or IBM's Lotus Symphony should be fine for
Windows.  AOO is the most up-to-date of those and is still free and is
still actively being developed and has a nice community.  Too many "and"s!

Btw this is the first time I've heard of a difference between LibreOffice
on Windows and LibreOffice on Linux.  It's another reason I'm glad of
having moved mostly away from Windows.  I still have dual boots on some
machines but I aalmost entirely use Linux now :)

Good luck and regards from
a Tom :)



On 4 May 2018 23:43, "V Stuart Foote"  wrote:

Blindjourno wrote

> Since you all can take code from OO, can't you take basically, all of
> their accessibility information and use it in LO? I mean, I stopped
> using JAWS years ago, but I heard from other people that JAWS works with
> OO? Would that be a lot of work? Taking all of the accessibility
> information from OO because OO is very accessible, just not updated or
> even nearly as stable.

Apache OpenOffice (AOO) uses the same IAccessible2 API, but unlike
LibreOffice they left the MSAA/IAccessible API in place, so there is
marginal Assistive Technology tool support in AOO with JAWS. And, nothing
that LibreOffice would care to implement--thank you.

Before its demise WindowsEyes had support for select IA2 based
applications--but never LibreOffice or AOO.

VFO/Freedom Scientific's refusal to support accessible events instrumented
with IA2 API has never made much sense to me personally, but their
insistence on Windows applications adopting Microsoft UI Automation (UIA)
brands them as a second rate player in the Free and Open Source Software
arena. It is not their business model--too bad if you are dependent on them.

LibreOffice as an OpenSource and cross platform development project is not
obliged to provide proprietary UIA bindings--an extension to "bridge" IA2 to
UIA could be developed--but we'll leave that to Freedom Scientific to
implement if they choose. We'll concentrate on making the native IA2/ATK &
AT-SPI/NSAccessibility bridges function cross platform against LibreOffices
internal accessibility modules.

For any JAWS user on Windows--LibreOffice is accessible at no cost, simply
install NVDA. Alternatively, ORCA on a Linux will do well, but if you need
more hand holding for a small fee the Hypra project's U.A.S. "Universally
Accessible operating System"  is a first rate Linux Debian distribution.

Enjoy...




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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Sidebar a11y accessibility

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
The diagrams and images look very pretty and make a lot of visual sense to
me.

There is a lot(!) of writing to go through too.  I haven't read much of it
and since accessibility issue don't really affect me i doubt i could really
understand the issues involved.

I did really like the summary of the differences between the main proposals
so i thought i would copy&paste them here;


Ideas Agreed On
"No access to title bar (title or close button) [ Heiko: Yes, Jay: Yes]

Jay & Heiko Disagreements
Heiko disagrees on F6 arriving at the deck
Should hamburger be accessible [ Heiko: No, Jay: Yes ]
"

I am not sure what "hamburger" means in this context!  Are these really the
only main differences?  If so it might be fairly easy for people on this
mailing list to choose between them, hopefully.

Good luck and regards from
Tom :)






On 28 January 2017 at 14:11, Yousuf Philips  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> For those that arent already aware, the design team is working on a11y
> guidelines for the sidebar in the following google doc, and all are welcome
> to comment on the two proposals in it.
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oKabPLLVe9s53i475W1-
> v0QA7cxc_0oT0qfVr68KWjM/edit?usp=sharing
>
> We also plan to have a audio/video discussion about it after next week's
> design meeting on the 2nd of February at 12pm UTC.
>
> Yousuf
>
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[libreoffice-accessibility] Re: [libreoffice-users] Recording devices tab - getting it to work

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I don't know if the Accessibility Mailing List might be able to help more
with this question.  I thought it might be good to forwards it to them jic.


To summarise a bit, it is on an unusually healthy Windows 7 system.
Regards from
Tom :)





On 27 June 2016 at 20:53, charles meyer  wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
> My apologies as this is not a per se Libre question but I can't find a
> solution audio-wise and would greatly appreciate your help.
>
> I'm testing screen recording software.
>
> I installed all the audio drivers from the Toshiba site for my laptop.
>
> But, when I go to test the mic to ascertain if it's working by
> clicking on Hardware and Sound (in Control Panel) and then pressing
> the Recording devices tab I get that hour glass which remains on
> screen for hours and never opens anything to test the mic with.
>
> In fact, on the bottom of that pop-up box the tabs for Configure, Set
> Default, Properties and Apply are all greyed out.
>
> The screen then freezes so if I click the OK or Cancel buttons nothing
> happens.
>
> To unfreeze the screen, I must access Task Manager and shut down Control
> Panel.
>
> I've tried this several times and each time the screen freezes so I
> can't test the mic.
>
> I needed to test the mic to see why it's not recording audio when I
> choose narration for any video screen recording I try.
>
> I'm up to date with all my MS Windows 7 updates (including optional
> updates) as well as all my anti-badware.
>
> All my other programs on this laptop work well and the laptop shows no
> signs of any problems except this one.
>
> I have plenty of RAM and hard drive space.
>
> Any ideas of what I can try next are very much appreciated.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Charles.
>
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[libreoffice-accessibility] Re:

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Is this mailing list still "active" or has it been stopped?  Is there
anywhere for people to discuss LibreOffice, ODF format with particular
emphasis on accessibility features?  Is this mailing list purely meant
to be only about "technical support" for accessibility issues in
LibreOffice?

Is LibreOffice good for people who need accessibility features or is
OpenOffice better, given the code donation given to them by IBM?  Are
people reluctantly using OpenOffice and just waiting for improvements
in LibreOffice so that they can switch back?  Does anyone here have
both AOO and LO on their system so they get the best of each?  (By
"the best" i mean the best for their own particular preferences).
Regards from
Tom :)




On 25 November 2015 at 14:07, Tom Davies  wrote:
> Hi :)
> Sorry i have responded at all.  I'm on the asperger-autism spectrum so
> i'm not good at being friends with people.  Also i have a bit of a
> family crises going on at the moment so i'm trying to support them as
> much as i can.
>
> There is a mailing list for accessibility issues but it's very, very
> quiet.  I keep meaning to check if it's still active but still haven't
> got around to it.  You could try posting to them at;
>
> accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
>
> I think that is the correct address but i'm not even certain of that
> at the moment.
>
> Sorry i have let you down so badly.
> Many apols and regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
> On 10 November 2015 at 18:19, nasrin khaksar  wrote:
>> hi tom.
>> how are you?
>> did you recieve my email?
>> i became very worried because i did not have information and email
>> from you for many days!
>> have a good time and god bless you.
>> i am waiting for your emails!

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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] List Subscription Issues

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I don't know what the issues are.  However it is mostly Microsofty
addresses that have been problematic for you.  I'm not sure if
Micorsoft have started deliberately making things awkward yet though.
I doubt they have started being deliberately obtuse yet.

So, i really don't know what was going wrong with all those MSy addresses
Regards from
Tom :)


On 2 February 2015 at 05:46, David Goldfield  wrote:
> Hello.
> I have successfully managed to join this list via this Gmail address but I
> had some difficulty with other email accounts.
> The address that I wanted to use for this list was
> david dot goldfield at outlook dot com
> substituting the "dot" and "at" for appropriate punctuation. I used the
> address
> accessibility+subscr...@global.libreoffice.org
> with no confirmations. I sent it multiple times with nothing coming back,
> even in Outlook's junk folder. Does anyone know if Outlook is automatically
> filtering out certain messages? I could find no such settings in the
> settings panel but perhaps I was not searching carefully enough.
> Next, I attempted to subscribe with a Verizon account. While I received a
> verification email in ten seconds after sending the subscription request,
> sending an email to the link provided in the message generated a
> confirmation, indicating that my message was invalid.
> Next, I used this Gmail account and the subscription went through without a
> hitch. I admit this isn't a LibreOffice issue but I'm wondering if anyone
> has any theories on why some of these accounts were not cooperating. My
> email client for all of these accounts is Thunderbird although I did try to
> subscribe via the Outlook.com Web site, with no confirmation. Anyway, at
> least I've found an account which will allow me to join this list and I'm
> glad to be able to participate more easily at home.
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] feature suggestion regarding spacing in documents

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
It might be good to post this idea on the OpenOffice forums.  The
Accessibility mailing list here is not very active and people don't
chat much.  I would love that to change and i hope that discussions of
this type of issue might help with that.
Regards from
Tom :)


On 27 January 2015 at 18:04,   wrote:
> I think it might be useful if Orca spoke the line spacing setting if it
> was different than the default when using the "get attribute of current
> character command. Some documents require different line spacing
> settings throughout and it might be useful to be able to get information
> regarding this without having to go to the paragraph settings dialog. An
> obvious drawback of this is that it would obviously make the information
> given a bit more verbose so I am curious what others think about this
> idea.
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Display bindings

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I am wondering if anyone here has been able to have a go to find out
which way they prefer to try to help Niklas with his really good work
in this area.
Regards from
Tom :)


On 16 January 2015 at 18:06, Niklas Johansson  wrote:
> So the change is in the daily builds of LibreOffice. I would like to
> encourage you to try it out and see what you think. I will not push it
> backwards towards LibreOffice 4.4 or earlier at this point, since I think it
> might be good to discuss if this really is what we want.
>
> Exposing the keyboard shortcuts as a part of menu names is what
> traditionally is recommended and what most of the applications is doing (not
> counting ribbon based applications). However looking at ribbon based
> applications like Word or Explorer seem to indicate that only the
> accelerators is exposed but not the keyboard shortcuts.
> The main problem with exposing the keyboard shortcut is that if the
> accelerator is set to be announced it is announced directly after the
> keyboard shortcut, making everything a bit hard to hear. Also if we append
> it to the announcement of the menu item it will always be announced.
>
> Again please try out one of the daily builds and let me know what you think.
> For example this one
> http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/master/Win-x86@42/2015-01-16_01.53.40/libo-master~2015-01-16_01.53.40_LibreOfficeDev_4.5.0.0.alpha0_Win_x86.msi
> The daily build can be installed alongside your current LibreOffice
> installation and will be installed with the name LibreOfficeDev instead of
> just LibreOffice.
>
> Thanks,
> Niklas
>

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[libreoffice-accessibility] Re: Happy Christmas all! :)

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I hope everyone had or is having a good Christmas day, even if you don't
celebrate it as being a special day.

Many regards to all from
Tom :)

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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Display bindings

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Ok, so posting the bug report sounds like a great idea to me.  I think just
go for it!  There is a drop-down in the bug reporting system that lets you
mark it as a "feature request".  I think marking it that way would make
more sense to devs.

Stuart's posts might be useful, or might give you something to add later.

A lot of people just post bug reports without asking anyone else what they
think and it sounds like you are a LOT more experienced with the issues.
So it was really kind to ask what we thought!  Just go for it though :)
Thanks :)
Regards from
Tom :)


On 17 December 2014 at 11:47, Niklas Johansson 
wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> First of, I work on translation myself, alone in translating into Swedish
> at the moment, so I'm well aware of these translation issues. ;)
>
> In this particular case I believe that we can avoid extra workload on the
> translation team. At least when it comes to the change/fix that I have in
> mind. The problem in this case is strictly a Windows accessibility issue
> were the shortcut string is already displayed in the menu entries but not
> forwarded to accessibility tools. Now what I believe needs to be done is to
> find the correct place to actually forward the information, it is already
> forwarded on Mac and Linux. Finding the correct place to change is not that
> easy, but I believe that it can be done without effecting the translation
> team. Again I'm not taking about adding new strings to menu entries just
> use the information that is already present and present it to accessibility
> tools as well.
>
> Note that I'm swamped with work (at my daytime job) and when I get some
> spare time I need to work on the translation and spend time with my ~4
> months old baby girl. This is also one of the reasons why I thought a bug
> should be filed so we can keep track of the bug, and I can add my findings
> as I try to narrow in on the issue. Thereby also making it easier for
> someone else to complete the work if I can't find the time.
>
> Regards,
> Niklas Johansson
>
> Tom Davies skrev den 2014-12-16 14:15:
>
>  Hi :)
>> Ok, so best left for a couple of months.
>>
>> I have a feeling we might have managed to stay "on topic", or at least get
>> back to the original problem!  However that is so rare i can't quite
>> believe it!
>>
>> @ Niklas, does that address the issue at all?
>>
>> Regards from
>> Tom :)
>>
>>
>>
>> On 15 December 2014 at 10:44, Sophie  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Tom, all,
>>> Le 14/12/2014 22:53, Tom Davies a écrit :
>>>
>>>> Hi :)
>>>> L10n lists are currently having a massive argument/discussion
>>>> (discussion
>>>> is more accurate tbh) right now about the disruptive effect of minor
>>>> changes.
>>>>
>>> The problem is minor changes, like capital letters in menu entries, that
>>> concerns only en_US version but because this version is the source for
>>> all the localization, this is also visible in localized versions where
>>> it could be considered as wasted time for localizers.
>>>
>>>> I'm not sure but i suspect that getting such a UI change within the next
>>>> couple of days might play out ok and catch the translators before they
>>>>
>>> have
>>>
>>>> put too much time into too many strings and then finding they need to
>>>> repeat the work.
>>>>
>>>> If it's not likely to be just a couple of days then it'd probably be
>>>>
>>> better
>>>
>>>> for them if this sort of change didn't happen for a few months - or
>>>> longer.  There might be a chance of them automating something like this
>>>>
>>> but
>>>
>>>> it'd take ages to set something up and they haven't agreed on getting
>>>> the
>>>> automation bit sorted.
>>>>
>>> Shortcuts can't be automated as they are localized (Ctrl and Shift). And
>>> the problem with automation is that we need somebody to write the
>>> scripts ;) The same for accelerators, where we need to adapt them to
>>> translated words.
>>> Anyway we will have a discussion about it with developers and UX team,
>>> once we are out of the 4.4.0 rushes.
>>> Cheers
>>> Sophie
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org
>>> Tel:+33683901545
>>> Co-founder - Release coordinator
>>> The Document Foundation
>>>
>>> --
>>> To unsu

Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Display bindings

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Ok, so best left for a couple of months.

I have a feeling we might have managed to stay "on topic", or at least get
back to the original problem!  However that is so rare i can't quite
believe it!

@ Niklas, does that address the issue at all?

Regards from
Tom :)



On 15 December 2014 at 10:44, Sophie  wrote:
>
> Hi Tom, all,
> Le 14/12/2014 22:53, Tom Davies a écrit :
> > Hi :)
> > L10n lists are currently having a massive argument/discussion (discussion
> > is more accurate tbh) right now about the disruptive effect of minor
> > changes.
>
> The problem is minor changes, like capital letters in menu entries, that
> concerns only en_US version but because this version is the source for
> all the localization, this is also visible in localized versions where
> it could be considered as wasted time for localizers.
> >
> > I'm not sure but i suspect that getting such a UI change within the next
> > couple of days might play out ok and catch the translators before they
> have
> > put too much time into too many strings and then finding they need to
> > repeat the work.
> >
> > If it's not likely to be just a couple of days then it'd probably be
> better
> > for them if this sort of change didn't happen for a few months - or
> > longer.  There might be a chance of them automating something like this
> but
> > it'd take ages to set something up and they haven't agreed on getting the
> > automation bit sorted.
>
> Shortcuts can't be automated as they are localized (Ctrl and Shift). And
> the problem with automation is that we need somebody to write the
> scripts ;) The same for accelerators, where we need to adapt them to
> translated words.
> Anyway we will have a discussion about it with developers and UX team,
> once we are out of the 4.4.0 rushes.
> Cheers
> Sophie
>
> --
> Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org
> Tel:+33683901545
> Co-founder - Release coordinator
> The Document Foundation
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Display bindings

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
L10n lists are currently having a massive argument/discussion (discussion
is more accurate tbh) right now about the disruptive effect of minor
changes.

I'm not sure but i suspect that getting such a UI change within the next
couple of days might play out ok and catch the translators before they have
put too much time into too many strings and then finding they need to
repeat the work.

If it's not likely to be just a couple of days then it'd probably be better
for them if this sort of change didn't happen for a few months - or
longer.  There might be a chance of them automating something like this but
it'd take ages to set something up and they haven't agreed on getting the
automation bit sorted.
Regards from
Tom :)



On 12 December 2014 at 17:00, V Stuart Foote  wrote:
>
> @Tom, *,
>
> No, you're asking the right question.  But you do need to look under the
> bonnet from time to time.
>
> Within the LibreOffice code there are two broad classes of keyboard
> accelerators.   One is associated with the .uno action associated with each
> object in the user interface.  The other are specific key functions defined
> globally.
>
> Most of the current implementation can be reviewed here:
> Other than the GenericCommands.xcu, different modules assign "access keys"
> as needed
>
> http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/officecfg/registry/data/org/openoffice/Office/UI/
>
> These are the "global"  "keyboard accelerator/short-cut keys" and each
> LibreOffice module responds in some fashion to them.  The KEY_MOD1 and
> KEY_MOD2 differ depending on OS.
> http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/vcl/source/window/keycod.cxx
>
> The native accessibility bridges handle only the first, the "access keys".
> But does so pretty effectively at this point.
>
> Enhancement would be to do as Mozilla and Adobe (and I assume Google) have
> done,  and simply label each menu item (or button) with its "keyboard
> accelerator/short-cut key" as appropriate for the function.   The rub would
> come with needing to accommodate keys for each OS and possibly  UI issues
> with the  l10n/i18n support.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-accessibility-Display-bindings-tp4131697p4132420.html
> Sent from the Accessibility mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Cycle menus

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I would have expected a pause and then cycle through again.  The same way
as it goes if you use the keyboard arrow-keys.  Do other programs do
something different?
Regards from
Tom :)



On 12 December 2014 at 19:14, MENGUAL Jean-Philippe 
wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Experiencing what suggested V Stuart, which enabled me to precise the
> issue I experience, I had a surprise: on Windows 7, when I reach to the end
> of the menu (e.g. Quit in File menu; or New in File menu), the focus stops
> instead of going to the other side of the menu and begin again scrolling.
> Is it expected that the menu browse is no longer cyclic?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Regards,
>
> --
>
> Jean-Philippe MENGUAL
>
> accelibreinfo, votre partenaire en informatique adaptée aux déficients
> visuels
>
> Mail: te...@accelibreinfo.eu
>
> Site Web: http://www.accelibreinfo.eu
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Display bindings

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Errr, in my questions i am not looking for certainties.  I'm just trying to
get a rough idea of what might be.

I often find that things which initially seem quite easy have some lurking
bug-bear waiting to bite me.  So i'm trying to guess at things that might
have been problems in the past, or might prevent LibreOffice from doing
something like this.

If the answers turn out to be wrong later on then it's likely to be my
fault for asking the wrong questions or not thinking of the right ones.
The worst thing imo would be to put loads of work into getting precise
accurate answers and then find no-one else is interested in going that
route anyway.
Regards from
Tom :)



On 12 December 2014 at 15:55, Tom Davies  wrote:
>
> Hi :)
> If it's trivial and makes it more consistent with other apps then it
> sounds like a really good option.  Such a good option that it worries me
> why it hasn't been done already.  Maybe there is a good reason?
>
> There have been a lot of positive changes in LibreOffice accessibility
> over the last year so maybe that is a factor?  Also maybe other apps (such
> as Firefox) have settled down to being more consistent with each other?
>
> Would such a change create problems for existing users who are used to
> using whatever keyboard short-cuts are currently being used in
> LibreOffice?
>
> If so is it likely to be easy to give people the choice?  At the moment
> there is already a setting in the
> Tools - Options
> that allows people to choose between "LibreOffice dialogues" and "native
> dialogues".  Would something like that be necessary to try to keep the
> existing users happy?  If so would it be easy?
>
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
>
>
> On 12 December 2014 at 15:28, V Stuart Foote 
> wrote:
>>
>> Niklas,
>>
>> Sure, we could  make a distinction as Microsoft does, between the "access
>> key" and a "keyboard accelerator/shortcut-key".
>>
>> But, as you know the majority of AT support in OOo and derivatives like
>> LibreOffice is structured around the accessibleRole assigned to an
>> object--and from that comes accessibleName  and "access key" attributes if
>> any.
>>
>> For objects that have VCL or UI based "access keys" attributes, those are
>> exposed to the UNO Accessibility API as the object is navigated, and the
>> respective native accessibility bridge handles it--as the user has
>> configured.
>>
>> Menu items and GUI widgets (buttons, spinners, etc.)  that do not have an
>> "access key" assigned will sound either the objects name or it's tooltip.
>> Those that do, will also sound the name and the "access key".
>>
>> With the shift of most of the GUI to UI, most "access keys" no longer are
>> +letter combinations. Rather they are just the letter -- and that
>> might
>> need to be adjusted at some point.
>>
>> But global "keyboard accelerator/shortcuts-keys",  normally structured
>> with
>> +letter, or ++letter are not otherwise exposed to AT as
>> they are not associated with the UI object.
>>
>> Anyhow, looking at a Firefox session, there they have simply adjusted the
>> objects accessibleName  and are appending the global shortcut-key to the
>> name!   Nothing special.  The "access key" associated with the accessible
>> object is exposed with AT.  It is exactly the same with Adobe Reader.
>>
>> So, we could do the same, pretty trivial as it is only label changes, and
>> some coordination with the l10n/i18n teams.
>>
>> Stuart
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-accessibility-Display-bindings-tp4131697p4132408.html
>> Sent from the Accessibility mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>> --
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>> deleted
>>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Display bindings

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
If it's trivial and makes it more consistent with other apps then it sounds
like a really good option.  Such a good option that it worries me why it
hasn't been done already.  Maybe there is a good reason?

There have been a lot of positive changes in LibreOffice accessibility over
the last year so maybe that is a factor?  Also maybe other apps (such as
Firefox) have settled down to being more consistent with each other?

Would such a change create problems for existing users who are used to
using whatever keyboard short-cuts are currently being used in
LibreOffice?

If so is it likely to be easy to give people the choice?  At the moment
there is already a setting in the
Tools - Options
that allows people to choose between "LibreOffice dialogues" and "native
dialogues".  Would something like that be necessary to try to keep the
existing users happy?  If so would it be easy?

Regards from
Tom :)




On 12 December 2014 at 15:28, V Stuart Foote  wrote:
>
> Niklas,
>
> Sure, we could  make a distinction as Microsoft does, between the "access
> key" and a "keyboard accelerator/shortcut-key".
>
> But, as you know the majority of AT support in OOo and derivatives like
> LibreOffice is structured around the accessibleRole assigned to an
> object--and from that comes accessibleName  and "access key" attributes if
> any.
>
> For objects that have VCL or UI based "access keys" attributes, those are
> exposed to the UNO Accessibility API as the object is navigated, and the
> respective native accessibility bridge handles it--as the user has
> configured.
>
> Menu items and GUI widgets (buttons, spinners, etc.)  that do not have an
> "access key" assigned will sound either the objects name or it's tooltip.
> Those that do, will also sound the name and the "access key".
>
> With the shift of most of the GUI to UI, most "access keys" no longer are
> +letter combinations. Rather they are just the letter -- and that
> might
> need to be adjusted at some point.
>
> But global "keyboard accelerator/shortcuts-keys",  normally structured with
> +letter, or ++letter are not otherwise exposed to AT as
> they are not associated with the UI object.
>
> Anyhow, looking at a Firefox session, there they have simply adjusted the
> objects accessibleName  and are appending the global shortcut-key to the
> name!   Nothing special.  The "access key" associated with the accessible
> object is exposed with AT.  It is exactly the same with Adobe Reader.
>
> So, we could do the same, pretty trivial as it is only label changes, and
> some coordination with the l10n/i18n teams.
>
> Stuart
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-accessibility-Display-bindings-tp4131697p4132408.html
> Sent from the Accessibility mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> --
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> deleted
>
>

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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Display bindings

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Errr, excluding Stuart and others who work on Accessibility Issues and the
ones working on Base who are all total stars.  Especially Stuart imo
Regards from
Tom :)



On 12 December 2014 at 14:07, Tom Davies  wrote:
>
> Hi :)
> I suspect that calling it an "Enhancement Request" might make people see
> it in a more positive way.  "Bug report" sounds like a grumbly aunt or
> something.
>
> Also if it's something that LO has not had before then it is an
> enhancement.  It's not like it was something that got broken or doesn't
> quite work as it should.
>
> I am struggling to work out how devs think but i am beginning to think the
> above might be getting closer to it.
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
>
> On 12 December 2014 at 13:47, Niklas Johansson 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> I still believe there is a bug or maybe we should call it an enhancement
>> request. It is true that accelerators are exposed properly through
>> IAccessible::get_accKeyboardShortcut, as they should. But reading
>> Microsoft notes [1] on the matter suggests that one should expose the
>> keyboard shortcut, aka Ctrl + O, together with the menu item name. This is
>> also how, for example, Firefox, Chrome, Internet Explorer, Acrobat Reader
>> does it. Am I missing some reason as to why we would not want to do the
>> same.
>>
>> However Stuarts instructions in the previous mail is enough to quickly
>> get around in LibreOffice. Note also that there are extensive information
>> on keyboard shortcuts in the LibreOffice help. Se for example:
>> https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/General_Shortcut_Keys_in
>> or:
>> https://help.libreoffice.org/Writer/Shortcut_Keys_for_Writer
>>
>>
>> [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/
>> dd318482%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
>>
>> Regards,
>> Niklas Johansson
>>
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscribe@
>> global.libreoffice.org
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>> deleted
>>
>>

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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Display bindings

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I suspect that calling it an "Enhancement Request" might make people see it
in a more positive way.  "Bug report" sounds like a grumbly aunt or
something.

Also if it's something that LO has not had before then it is an
enhancement.  It's not like it was something that got broken or doesn't
quite work as it should.

I am struggling to work out how devs think but i am beginning to think the
above might be getting closer to it.
Regards from
Tom :)



On 12 December 2014 at 13:47, Niklas Johansson 
wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> I still believe there is a bug or maybe we should call it an enhancement
> request. It is true that accelerators are exposed properly through
> IAccessible::get_accKeyboardShortcut, as they should. But reading
> Microsoft notes [1] on the matter suggests that one should expose the
> keyboard shortcut, aka Ctrl + O, together with the menu item name. This is
> also how, for example, Firefox, Chrome, Internet Explorer, Acrobat Reader
> does it. Am I missing some reason as to why we would not want to do the
> same.
>
> However Stuarts instructions in the previous mail is enough to quickly get
> around in LibreOffice. Note also that there are extensive information on
> keyboard shortcuts in the LibreOffice help. Se for example:
> https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/General_Shortcut_Keys_in
> or:
> https://help.libreoffice.org/Writer/Shortcut_Keys_for_Writer
>
>
> [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/
> dd318482%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
>
> Regards,
> Niklas Johansson
>
>
> --
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>
>

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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Display bindings

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I am not even sure what "the bindings" are.  I don't 'see' them, or at
least i'm not aware of seeing them.
Regards from
Tom :)

On 6 December 2014 at 16:55, MENGUAL Jean-Philippe 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Still NVDA 2014.4, LO 4.3.4, Windows 7: is there a setting to display
> binding next to the commands which have one? Thus, on Linux, next to Open,
> I read Ctrl+O). I cannot read this info on NVDA. Is that a NVDA option? A
> LibreOffice option? Or just a bug? Do sighted people see the binding
> displayed? If it's a bug, does it concern NVDA? LibreOffice?
>
> Regards,
>
> --
>
> Jean-Philippe MENGUAL
>
> accelibreinfo, votre partenaire en informatique adaptée aux déficients
> visuels
>
> Mail: te...@accelibreinfo.eu
>
> Site Web: http://www.accelibreinfo.eu
>
>
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> deleted
>

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Re: Re : [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: LO and Mac

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Thanks :))

I didn't know about Alt being a way to get into or out of
menus/ribbon-bar.  On Ubuntu it brings up the "HUD" which allows people to
type in what they want to do, instead of having to search through menus.  I
had forgotten the Alt F4 for closing a window/console.  I have often used
Ctrl w to close a document/tab but keep the main window open = usually most
useful in a web-browser but still useful in other apps sometimes.

I think even just knowing a few greatly helps people, even fully sighted
users gain a lot by using them.


Errr, i just found this ZdNet article
http://www.zdnet.com/article/intel-stephen-hawking-aim-to-spur-assistive-technology-development/

I think getting a celebrity actively promoting assistive technologies might
be a help.  Stephen Hawkings seems to have quite a reputation for being a
curious mix of friendly but demanding and seems good at breaking down
barriers.  There are a couple of things that worry me.  IBM's involvement
suggests it's going to be entirely proprietary and even though there is a
suggestion of it being free now it makes me wonder how long it would stay
that way.  On the other hand IBM have done some good for OpenSource too so
i'm not sure.

Regards from
Tom :)



On 3 December 2014 at 13:41, David Goldfield  wrote:

> Hi.
> I've been a screen reader user since 1991 when I started out with DOS 3.X
> and so I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have about this topic.
>


> When you are dependent on using a screen reader, it helps if you can
> memorize shortcut keys. The more keys you can memorize, the more efficient
> you will likely be with computer navigation. For people who just don't do
> well in memorizing shortcut keys, teaching them how to use a program's menu
> bar or ribbon UI can be of great help, as this presents a simple way of
> getting to all of the commands contained within a given program. Many
> shortcut keys are quite intuitive and easy to remember: ctrl-S for save,
> ctrl-O for open, ctrl-P for print, etc. The alt key places focus in or out
> of the menu/ribbons and alt-f4, at least in Windows, is used to close the
> currently active window or, in many cases, running app.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Tom Davies [mailto:tomc...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 6:15 AM
> To: MENGUAL Jean-Philippe
> Cc: Alex Thurgood; Accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
> Subject: Re: Re : [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: LO and Mac
>
> Hi :)
> I am mildly curious about how people work with screen-readers when they
> are completely dependant on them.
>
> I can often work without a mouse by using some keyboard short-cuts and
> using tab to go through menus.  To some extent i've memorised some of 'the'
> keyboard (thanks to Mavis Beacon and other touch-typing courses) so i could
> probably find the tab key without needing to see it but a lot of times i
> would be completely stuck
>
> I was hoping that being on this mailing list might reveal some tricks that
> a lot of people use but mostly it's been really technical stuff here.
> No-one here seems to need or ask questions about just workflow or for hints
> and tips, yet.  Maybe that will change once LO is easier to set-up for
> accessibility, ie once java dependence is no longer an issue.
>
> I've been quite glad to see the highly technical answers too, of course
> but it's all just beyond me.  Luckily i've not had to set-up a system for
> anyone needing it but i keep having little trial-runs at it.  One day i
> should make a serious attempt and maybe then things will become a lot
> clearer.
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
>
> On 3 December 2014 at 09:38, MENGUAL Jean-Philippe  >
> wrote:
>
> > Hi.
> >
> > Thanks for this info. Actually I wonder how LO behaves with "Voiceover",
> > that is, is it possible to browse between toolbars, in the menus, the
> > dialogs, etc. For example, is it easy to handle styles and characters
> > formatting?
> >
> > The question is asked to me by a blind user to do tests. I am aware of
> > the lack of resource for this architecture, but I wonder if someone
> > tested anyway;
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > - Alex Thurgood  a écrit :
> > > Le 03/12/2014 00:52, MENGUAL Jean-Philippe a écrit :
> > >
> > > Hi Jean-Philippe
> > >
> > >
> > > > Does someone is LibreOffice is accessible with VoiceOver as 4.3.4?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Accessible in which way ?
> > >
> > > My recent testing of VoiceOver on OSX 10.10.1 and LO 4334 and master
> > > build 4.5.0 alpha shows that it mostly works for announcing text
>

[libreoffice-accessibility] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Sphinx - voice translation - Linux

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
For people following the "Voice Recognition" threads i thought you might
find this post interesting.  If it's true then it explains a lot =
especially about how this area seems to have gone backwards over the last
20 or so years instead of forwards.

I wonder if anything could be done about it?  Surely they are breaking
"equality" legislation in many countries.  I think that is too much of any
of us to take on and i'm sure people have already tried but it might be
worth someone exploring someday.
Good luck and regards from
Tom :)



On 3 December 2014 at 16:04, jonathon  wrote:

>
>
> On 03/12/14 12:55, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote:
>
> > Is there any FREE ones that work well for Windows?
>
> No.
> The entire field is wrapped up in mathematical algorithms that have been
> illegally granted patents.
>
> >   That is what the speech recognition really us needed.
>
> All of that was available, before Nuance decided that they would help
> those with a11y requirements by ensuring that R&D was stopped, and
> working products were pulled from the market place.
>
> Indeed, the achievement that Nuance is proudest of, is that those with
> a11y needs no longer have the tools that would help them.
>
> jonathon
>
>
>
>
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Re: Re : [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: LO and Mac

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I am mildly curious about how people work with screen-readers when they are
completely dependant on them.

I can often work without a mouse by using some keyboard short-cuts and
using tab to go through menus.  To some extent i've memorised some of 'the'
keyboard (thanks to Mavis Beacon and other touch-typing courses) so i could
probably find the tab key without needing to see it but a lot of times i
would be completely stuck

I was hoping that being on this mailing list might reveal some tricks that
a lot of people use but mostly it's been really technical stuff here.
No-one here seems to need or ask questions about just workflow or for hints
and tips, yet.  Maybe that will change once LO is easier to set-up for
accessibility, ie once java dependence is no longer an issue.

I've been quite glad to see the highly technical answers too, of course but
it's all just beyond me.  Luckily i've not had to set-up a system for
anyone needing it but i keep having little trial-runs at it.  One day i
should make a serious attempt and maybe then things will become a lot
clearer.
Regards from
Tom :)



On 3 December 2014 at 09:38, MENGUAL Jean-Philippe 
wrote:

> Hi.
>
> Thanks for this info. Actually I wonder how LO behaves with voiceover,
> that is, is it possible to browse between toolbars, in the menus, the
> dialogs, etc. For example, is it easy to handle styles and charachters
> formatting?
>
> The question is asked to me by a blind user to do tests. I am aware of the
> lack of resource for this architectuure, but I wonder if someone tested
> anyway;
>
> Regards
>
> - Alex Thurgood  a écrit :
> > Le 03/12/2014 00:52, MENGUAL Jean-Philippe a écrit :
> >
> > Hi Jean-Philippe
> >
> >
> > > Does someone is LibreOffice is accessible with VoiceOver as 4.3.4?
> > >
> >
> > Accessible in which way ?
> >
> > My recent testing of VoiceOver on OSX 10.10.1 and LO 4334 and master
> > build 4.5.0 alpha shows that it mostly works for announcing text
> > paragraphs from a pre-existing Writer document and using keyboard
> > commands to jump from one text block to another.
> >
> > I haven't tested speech input, if that is what you are asking about.
> > There is an open, as yet unconfirmed, bug report that speech input
> > stopped working with LO 4.3.
> >
> > The simple fact of the matter is that there are very few Mac QA testers,
> > and even fewer that use or need VoiceOver, one of the reasons being that
> > assistive technology tools tended to cause LO to crash in previous
> > versions, and thus general advice was to deactivate them when using LO.
> >
> >
> > Alex
> >
> >
> > --
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[libreoffice-accessibility] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Sphinx - voice translation - Linux

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I am wondering if anyone here uses any speech recognition packages or has
any idea about which ones work well.  I think the preference is for
something working well on Linux but it might be interesting to hear about
others.

I am fairly sure Macs used to have something about 20 years ago.  Also
vague memory of "Dragon" or something but really can't remember.
Regards from
Tom :)



On 2 December 2014 at 21:47, Eric  wrote:

>
> On 12/2/2014 3:08 PM, charles meyer wrote:
>
>> Hi Tom,
>>
>> I spoke with someone who uses Linux and they shared that Sphinx -
>> voice translation is new so many may not have tried it yet.
>>
>> Sorry for jumping the gun, so to speak.
>>
>
> It's speech recognition, not voice translation. If I throw you off the top
> of the building, I'm going to hear your voice. If I push you near the edge
> of the roof, I would hear your speech..
>
> Sphinx has been around for at least 15 years in different forms. It has
> been, and probably always will be a system designed for IVR (interactive
> voice response, "speak or press one to get ignored by a customer service
> representative"). It is not and never will be a system for general-purpose
> speech recognition.
>
> The only useful speech recognition packages are NaturallySpeaking with a
> not very close runner-up of Windows speech recognition. Google speech
> recognition would be in the running if it wasn't bound to a very limited
> number of apps with no user accessible grammars. I'm currently
> experimenting with running Windows in a KVM virtual machine, running
> NaturallySpeaking there and find a way to see the output of
> NaturallySpeaking back to the Linux host OS.  If I can get the audio stream
> clean enough, it looks like a promising technique for adding speech
> recognition to Linux
>
> Now all I need some help to figure out what I don't know about injecting
> keystrokes into linux and may be help with fixing up KVM so it passes audio
> cleanly under most conditions.
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Definite Progress/Calc Accessibility Issues with NVDA

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Nice work-around!!  How the heck did you find that?!?!! :)))

It's not a fix but it's good to have something that does do the trick!
Nicely found!
Congrats and regards from
Tom :)



On 3 November 2014 14:46, David Goldfield  wrote:

> I added a comment to bug 81264 but I am so excited I wanted to post this
> to the list as well.  I just did some testing with Calc
> Version: 4.4.0.0.alpha1+
> Build ID: d9473f25380c627966b4406cc4cdfaafcf44bc37
> TinderBox: Win-x86@51-TDF, Branch:MASTER, Time: 2014-11-03_04:24:26
> with the latest NVDA master build.
> Pressing the f2 followed by escape still does not reliably read cell
> coordinates or data as I move through the spreadsheet with arrow keys.
> However, at that point if I use ctrl-alt-N to exit and restart NVDA and
> place focus back into the spreadsheet, arrow keys work reliably and I can
> hear cell coordinates and any data which may be contained within the cell.
> I hope that information might be of some use.
>
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[libreoffice-accessibility]

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
The Documentation Team have suddenly galvanised into action and got really
close to completing the Writer Guide.

Just 2 more chapters to review!
Ch 12 = Table of Contents and Indexes
Appendix A = Keyboard Short-cuts

The main one you could almost certainly help with is the "Appendix A".

If you tend to use the keyboard and rarely touch the mouse then it might be
really easy to check the instructions are correct.  If you commonly use
other keyboard short-cuts then it might be possible to add those into the
guide and that might help a lot of other people

There is a guide on how to get started in the Documentation Team!
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development

But just send an email to
documentat...@global.libreoffice.org
and hopefully people there might be able to help you get started.  They
might not be used to dealing with people using screen-readers so please be
gentle with them!  Just let them know how to improve.


If your accessibility issue is not about using the mouse then you could
still be very useful.
Good luck and many regards from
Tom :)

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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] More Inconsistent Accessibility Issues with LibreOffice Calc 4.3 RC1 and Screen readers

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Has there been any move on this topic?

Please can someone post a proper bug-report about it?
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/BugReport

The initial report doesn't need to cover all the things asked for in that
wiki-guide because it's fairly easy to add new comments later.  The
important thing is to get a new report started so that others can add to
it.  The wiki guide helps find if there is already an existing report and
if there is one then adding to it can be much more helpful and easier than
creating a "duplicate thread"

I kinda hope that the devs are not reading all the mailing-lists all the
time because if they are then i'd be annoyed that they aren't working on
"my favourite bug" instead!! :)  (on the other hand it is nice to get a bit
of feedback sometimes so there is probably a balance somewhere)
Regards from
Tom :)





On 27 June 2014 20:26, Kevin Cussick 
wrote:

> Hi,   thanks for this post,  this is very useful.  I am not a programer
> but I can do the same as you and test things.  I have been wanting open
> office and Lo to just work out of the box for years now it is more or less
> happening I am excited good post and I am sure someone from the dev team
> will read and maybe be able to try and fix with a patch.
>
>
> On 27/06/2014 17:07, David Goldfield wrote:
>
>> I have some additional findings to report regarding screen reader
>> accessibility of Calc 4.3 and screen readers.
>> As I indicated in an early message, I receive little or no feedback when
>> navigating through spreadsheets using the latest Calc RC along with NVDA
>> 2014.2, although accessibility is not broken in OpenOffice 4.1 and I
>> assumed that both LibreOffice and OpenOffice were using the same code for
>> Iaccessible2 support.
>> For kicks, I wanted to see how Calc would interact with the latest build
>> of JAWS 15.
>> When I tried navigating through a Calc spreadsheet using JAWS, the
>> behavior was different and, on the whole, more positive.
>> When I first opened Calc with JAWS running, JAWS treated the spreadsheet
>> as though it was a Web page or HTML document and I had to turn off the
>> virtual cursor.
>> Once I did this, audible feedback while using arrow keys to navigate the
>> spreadsheet also yielded no results.
>> However, when I pressed the alt key to open the menu bar followed by a
>> second press of the alt key to close it, JAWS read the spreadsheet data and
>> cell information perfectly, as it would with programs such as Excel.
>> I was intrigued and closed Calc.
>> After reopening Calc, JAWS did not go into its Web page browse mode but
>> still did not produce feedback while navigating through the spreadsheet.
>> Once again, I pressed the alt key twice, to move focus to and then away
>> from Calc's menu bar.
>> As I expected, audible navigation worked perfectly, allowing me to hear
>> cell coordinates and any data contained within the cell.
>> Even more curious, I wanted to see if I could get NVDA and Calc to
>> cooperate by moving focus away from and then back to the spreadsheet.
>> I closed JAWS and started NVDA.
>> I opened Calc and pressed the alt key twice, once to access the menu bar
>> and a second time to move focus away from the menu bar back to the
>> workbook.  Unfortunately, NVDA would still not read any data or cell
>> coordinates in the workbook.  I don't know if this information is of any
>> use to any of the developers who may be reading this but I thought I should
>> pass this along.
>> While I don't have JAWS on my home computer, I do have NVDA and would be
>> happy to run specific tests if I can be of any assistance.
>> I've also gone into the view menu to try and turn off unnecessary or at
>> least unneeded toolbars, as this can sometimes make a difference.  As an
>> example, I vaguely remember that the formula bar might have been
>> responsible for producing too much audible feedback in one of the earlier
>> versions of Calc.  Again, if there are specific settings any of you would
>> like me to try please let me know.  As a user and trainer for other users
>> of this technology, I am quite excited at seeing more accessibility being
>> implemented in these suites and I'd like to do anything I can to assist in
>> making this happen.  I'm not a programmer but I'm happy to test and report
>> findings.
>>
>>
>>
>> David Goldfield
>> Computer Technology Instructor
>> 919 Walnut Street
>> 4th Floor
>> Philadelphia, PA  19107
>>
>> 215-627-0600 ext 3277
>> FAX:  215-922-0692
>>
>> dgold...@asb.org<mailto:dgold...@asb

Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Removing commands from formatting menu

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Cool!  Thanks for clarifying that. :)

I think it would be great if people from here could join the Design Team so
that the team can benefit from the experience or thoughts of people here.
Similarly other teams would benefit hugely from advice about accessibility
issues even if it's just to make the other teams more aware of some
issues.
Regards from
Tom :)



On 10 July 2014 18:27, V Stuart Foote  wrote:

> Tom,
>
> You missed the point, admittedly subtle.
>
> David was responding to Mirek's request for help with a Design team issue.
>   Thank you David, by the way for the offer.
>
> David does not need the aggravation of following the Design or Marketing
> mail lists.
>
> Stuart
>
> ____
> From: Tom Davies 
> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 11:55 AM
> To: David Goldfield
> Cc: Mirek M.; accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Removing commands from formatting
> menu
>
> Hi :)
> I think just registering for the design team's mailing list would be
> great.  It might be good to also register with the wider marketing team but
> the main one would be the design team.
>
> Errr, to register for the other mailing lists just follow the same process
> as you did for registering for this mailing list.
> Good luck and regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
>
> On 10 July 2014 17:29, David Goldfield  wrote:
>
> > Mirek,
> > I'm not a Libreoffice expert but I'm visually impaired, have access to
> > three screen readers and I use NVDA as my screen reader of choice.  I'm
> an
> > assistive technology trainer, having been in the field for over 20 years.
> >  I'd be honored to assist, if I can.  You can visit my Web site to learn
> > more about what I know and what I do, if needed.
> > http://www.davidgoldfield.info
> >
> >
> >
> > David Goldfield
> > Computer Technology Instructor
> > Associated Services for the Blind & Visually Impaired
> > 919 Walnut Street
> > 4th Floor
> > Philadelphia
> > PA 19107
> >
> > Tel. 215-627-0600 ext 3277
> > Fax. 215-922-0692
> >
> > mailto:dgold...@asb.org
> > http://www.asb.org
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Mirek M. [mailto:maz...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 12:22 PM
> > To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
> > Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] Removing commands from formatting
> menu
> >
> > Hi guys,
> > Michael Meeks mentioned in
> > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=81132 that context menus
> have
> > a special purpose for a11y. Could anyone here please clue us in as to
> what
> > role they serve and in which scenarios they are used, preferably in a
> > comment in the bug report?
> >
> > Also, the design team could really use a person knowledgeable in
> > LibreOffice's accessibility features and in accessibility problems in
> > general. Would anyone here like to help us there?
> >
> > --
>

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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Removing commands from formatting menu

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I think just registering for the design team's mailing list would be
great.  It might be good to also register with the wider marketing team but
the main one would be the design team.

Errr, to register for the other mailing lists just follow the same process
as you did for registering for this mailing list.
Good luck and regards from
Tom :)



On 10 July 2014 17:29, David Goldfield  wrote:

> Mirek,
> I'm not a Libreoffice expert but I'm visually impaired, have access to
> three screen readers and I use NVDA as my screen reader of choice.  I'm an
> assistive technology trainer, having been in the field for over 20 years.
>  I'd be honored to assist, if I can.  You can visit my Web site to learn
> more about what I know and what I do, if needed.
> http://www.davidgoldfield.info
>
>
>
> David Goldfield
> Computer Technology Instructor
> Associated Services for the Blind & Visually Impaired
> 919 Walnut Street
> 4th Floor
> Philadelphia
> PA 19107
>
> Tel. 215-627-0600 ext 3277
> Fax. 215-922-0692
>
> mailto:dgold...@asb.org
> http://www.asb.org
> -Original Message-
> From: Mirek M. [mailto:maz...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 12:22 PM
> To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
> Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] Removing commands from formatting menu
>
> Hi guys,
> Michael Meeks mentioned in
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=81132 that context menus have
> a special purpose for a11y. Could anyone here please clue us in as to what
> role they serve and in which scenarios they are used, preferably in a
> comment in the bug report?
>
> Also, the design team could really use a person knowledgeable in
> LibreOffice's accessibility features and in accessibility problems in
> general. Would anyone here like to help us there?
>
> --
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Base and Orca Issue

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
You might get more answers at the Ask LO bot thing or on the Apache Open
Office forums.
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewforum.php?f=13
or on the Users mailing-list here

Good luck and regards from
Tom :)



On 23 June 2014 18:27, Hunter Jozwiak  wrote:

> Hi all,
> I am trying to input records in to a database I've made via a form so
> I can learn how to use databases under LibreOffice. I was able to make
> the forms and tables easily enough, but when I press enter on the
> form, Orca won't speak anything. Am I doing things wrong?
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Can't get a spred sheet to work in the latest master with the ia2 support but reads just fine using open office beta.

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Sorry!!  I didn't realise you had replied off-list! :(  Please try to use
"Reply to all" rather than just reply in future!

To all:  Kevin's answer indicates that
1.  he is using Windows.
2.  the file worked in Open Office 4.1.x probably 4.1.0

We are not sure which version of java bridge is being used.  Is there a
default one?  Does Open Office 4.1.0 use one?

The file might have started life as a MS Office file, probably an Excel
file but probably using the older MS format, .xls rather than .xlsX.  We
are not certain what format it is in at the moment.

Any tips and tricks would be welcomed!  Has anyone on this mailing list
dealt with similar issues?  Any pointers or nudges in roughly the right
directions or even just ideas on what might be worth trying (even if that
turns out to be wrong) would be great!

Good luck all and "happy easter" to those who celebrate it (and everyone
else too).
Regards from
Tom :)




On 13 April 2014 20:17, Kevin Cussick  wrote:

> Hi,   I am using what ever the latest java access bridge is.   but I am
> not really using it as I am using the master branch this as far as I am
> aware does not even need the dreaded access bridge.   no I am only
> interested in this spread sheet that I have. it worked in ms access or what
> ever it is called,   it also worked in the beta 4.10 of open office calc
> and this is why I am asking why it is not showing anything in lo thanks for
> any tips and tricks.
>
> On 11/04/2014 14:12, Tom Davies wrote:
>
>> Hi :)
>> I guess you have tried a fresh new spreadsheet with things in only a
>> couple of cells?  Does the little fresh-start one fare any better?
>>
>> The way you ask it sounds like the spreadsheet used to work fine in
>> LibreOffice?  Can you remember one of the versions it did used to work on?
>>
>> Does the 4.1 branch still use the Java bridge?  I think it's only the
>> 4.2 that can use the non-Java one and even then only when the
>> experimental features option is ticked?  So, i guess another question is
>> what version of the Java access bridge are you using?
>>
>> I'm not sure about all this tbh but hopefully some version numbers of
>> things might help.  Also which OS are you using?  Xp?  Ubuntu?
>> Regards from
>> Tom :)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11 April 2014 11:46, Kevin Cussick
>> > <mailto:the.big.white.sheph...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> As the subject says can't get anything to read using this spread
>> sheet it works just fine using open office beta 4.10 with the ia2
>> support can anyone help I could send the document but would rather
>> do this to one of the devs as it is a little sensitive.  it has
>> names and addresses of members of my ham radio club on it. thanks
>> for any help given.
>>
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Can't get a spred sheet to work in the latest master with the ia2 support but reads just fine using open office beta.

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I guess you have tried a fresh new spreadsheet with things in only a couple
of cells?  Does the little fresh-start one fare any better?

The way you ask it sounds like the spreadsheet used to work fine in
LibreOffice?  Can you remember one of the versions it did used to work on?

Does the 4.1 branch still use the Java bridge?  I think it's only the 4.2
that can use the non-Java one and even then only when the experimental
features option is ticked?  So, i guess another question is what version of
the Java access bridge are you using?

I'm not sure about all this tbh but hopefully some version numbers of
things might help.  Also which OS are you using?  Xp?  Ubuntu?
Regards from
Tom :)






On 11 April 2014 11:46, Kevin Cussick  wrote:

> As the subject says can't get anything to read using this spread sheet it
> works just fine using open office beta 4.10 with the ia2 support can anyone
> help I could send the document but would rather do this to one of the devs
> as it is a little sensitive.  it has names and addresses of members of my
> ham radio club on it. thanks for any help given.
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] How to enable focus & caret tracking with Gnome magnifier

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Sorry about the spam there.  It is probably best to avoid replying to
the "original poster"!
Regards from
Tom :)


On 28 March 2014 03:15, repl  wrote:
> there are so many [URL=http://www.trikotsschweiz.eu/]Billige Trikots Sale
>
> [/URL] customs that retro NFL jerseys characterize the NFL only at that 。
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-accessibility-How-to-enable-focus-caret-tracking-with-Gnome-magnifier-tp4099081p4103261.html
> Sent from the Accessibility mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Question about Downloading LibreOffice/Where's the Helppack?

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Yes, i noticed that too!  The help-packs are really good when
translated into other languages but if you use English ones normally
then you are better off using the full published guides, which you can
download for free from;
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications
Regards from
Tom :)


On 7 March 2014 14:02, David Goldfield  wrote:
> Hi.
> I see that libreoffice.org has a new Web page.  In the download section I'm 
> unable to find the link to download the external helppack file.  Has this 
> been removed?
>
>
> David Goldfield
> Computer Technology Instructor
> 919 Walnut Street
> 4th Floor
> Philadelphia, PA  19107
>
> 215-627-0600 ext 3277
> FAX:  215-922-0692
>
> dgold...@asb.org<mailto:dgold...@asb.org>
> www.asb.org<http://www.asb.org>
>
>
> Serving Philadelphia's and the nation's blind and visually impaired 
> population since 1874.
>
>  
> www.asb.org<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Associated-Services-for-the-Blind/234389409941928>
>   www.asb.org<http://twitter.com/ASBPhiladelphia>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[libreoffice-accessibility] Fwd: [tdf-announce] LibreOffice Conference 2014 Call for Paper

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Wow!!

Accessibility is 5th on the list!  I've not noticed where it's been
positioned before but it feels like a good opportunity for someone
from this mailing list to present a proposal on any relevant issue.
Perhaps quite a few people on this list have useful things to say or
could form a work-group to present something together?

How does this all work?  I take it this first stage is to 'just' write
a paper and send it in.  What normally happens next?  Apparently there
might be some funds available to cover travel and accommodation if
that is relevant (ie if it's not some sort of video conference or
something).  I'm not sure how much but it's something that you could
explore or ask about on the marketing mailing list or somewhere.
Regards from
Tom :)



On 5 March 2014 16:08, Italo Vignoli  wrote:
> The Document Foundation announces that the Call for Papers for the
> LibreOffice Conference 2014 is now open. The event will be organized in
> Bern, Switzerland, from September 3 to 5, at Bern University.
>
> TDF Members and Volunteers are invited to submit their proposals by May
> 15, 2014, to guarantee that they will be considered for inclusion in the
> conference program, base on the following tracks:
>
> a) Development, APIs, Extensions
> b) Quality Assurance
> c) Localization and Native Language Projects
> d) Design
> e) Accessibility
> f) Certification for Migrations and Trainings
> g) Enterprise Deployments and Migrations
> h) Open Document Format (ODF)
>
> The Call for Paper page is available at the following address:
> http://conference.libreoffice.org/2014/call-for-papers.
>
> Proposals, including a short bio of the speaker (max 500 characters) as
> well as a short abstract of the contents (max 1,000 characters), should
> be sent to the program committee address: confere...@libreoffice.org.
>
> Presentations, case studies, workshops and technical talks will discuss
> a subject in depth, and will last 60 minutes (including Q&A). Lightning
> talks will cover a specific topic and will last 20 minutes (including
> Q&A). Sessions will be streamed live and recorded for download.
>
> Whether you are a seasoned presenter, or have never stood up in public
> before, if you have something interesting to share about LibreOffice we
> definitely want to hear from you.
>
> --
> Italo Vignoli - The Document Foundation
> mob IT +39.348.5653829 - mob EU +39.392.7481795
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] How to return accessible LibreOffice ? (Beginner)

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Ok, for your required work, at least for the exams, it sounds as
though Christophe's answer (to file-export to tagged Pdf) does the
trick.

For students to use LibreOffice for there own work is going to need a
few things set-up.  That is more likely to be with screen-readers and
headphones and shouldn't be too tough.  Jaws and Dolphin sound
familiar.  I think others on this mailing list are using those too.
I've not heard of "beach squalls".

I'm not sure if you already know but the French Gendarmerie are
planning to move to LibreOffice too.  I'm not sure how far along they
have got.  It might be good to have some sort of collaboration to help
them or you or both to overcome such issues.

Normally large-scale migrations contact our Board and arrange for help
from them.  I'm not sure how much it costs but i suspect it wouldn't
be much compared against license fees!  Also it's good to contact the
Free Software Foundation especially if you are considering moving to
other Open Source programs at the same time or even a full-scale
migration away from Windows.  However FSF does seem to have helped
organisations just do a migration to LibreOffice/OpenOffice while
keepign everything else the same afaik.

Here is how to contact our BoD
http://www.documentfoundation.org/contact/
Here's the home-page of FSF but i'm not sure how to get from there to
asking them for support
https://fsf.org/

Regards from
Tom :)






On 5 March 2014 11:55, Doriane-france  wrote:
> Thank you to have delivered my message and to have answered it. I asked for
> one person in France which redirected me here.
>
> To answer the questions that I understood:
> It's not me who chosen the material which will be used (as reader of screen
> or beach squalls), my recquiert work to present all the possible solutions
> to adapt a computer to a blind pupils or which sees bad. We have Jaws at
> arrangement, Dolphin Guide, and a beach squalls. The rest of the material
> will once be ordered my ended research work. Do not know on which operating
> system will be based the adaptation, but for the moment it is mainly on
> Windows 7. And for LibreOffice, we work on the version 4.1.5.3. It will be
> the same for the pupils.
>
> I am sorry I cannot give you more informations but they are my superiors
> which shall decide when I would have presented all the possible solutions.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/How-to-return-accessible-LibreOffice-Beginner-tp4100083p4100114.html
> Sent from the Accessibility mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] How to return accessible LibreOffice ? (Beginner)

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
The "tagged Pdf" route is probably the best answer!

For editable documents, and further to Christophe's answer, the 4.0.6
is a very good and very stable version of LibreOffice.  4.0.3, 4.0.4,
4.0.5 are also excellent and very stable but the higher that 3rd digit
the better for stability.

So the 4.1.4 is great too (for the same reasoning, ie that the 3rd
digit is quite high) but if those Extensions do not work well with it
then it might be worth stepping back to 4.0.6.

It is possible to install more than 1 version of LIbreOffice on a
machine but that might over complicate the issue so maybe best for
just a handful or even just a few machine rather than all of them!
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Installing_in_parallel#Windows

Regards from
Tom :)






On 5 March 2014 10:56, Christophe Strobbe  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 5/03/2014 8:39, Doriane-france wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I am French, I work in a university and I have to adapt an examination which
>> takes place on computer to visual deficient  people. A big part of the
>> examination is made with LibreOffice, and I would want to know how to return
>> LibreOffice an accessible maximum.
>> For this, I know the PDF / UA project, where is this standard? Is he going
>> to have extensions or anything there?
> You can make LibreOffice export tagged PDF by checking the checkbox
> "tagged PDF" ("PDF marqué") in the PDF export dialog. (See the fuller
> explanation at <http://adod.idrc.ocad.ca/oowriter#tech12>.) After the
> first time, LibreOffice should remember this setting.
> PDF/UA is not a new PDF format; it is a standard that describes the many
> elements that are mostly optional in the PDF standard ( ISO 32000-1) but
> that are required for accessibility. So even when an application does
> not say it implements PDF/UA it is still possible that it outputs
> accessible PDF.
>
>
>> The extension AccessODF verifies the accessibility of my created documents,
>> odt2braille and odt2daisy are also installed, but there would be of other
>> one options, extensions or methods to make accessible LibreOffice to the
>> persons with visual impairment ?
>
> I am delighted to see that people are using AccessODF, odt2braille and
> odt2daisy!
> Since these extensions are still incompatible with LibreOffice 4.1 and
> more recent versions, I assume you are using LibreOffice 4.0 or an older
> version.
> The only other extension related to accessibility that I am aware of is
> "Read Text":
> <http://extensions.libreoffice.org/extension-center/read-text>.
>
> One thing to know about AccessODF, odt2braille and odt2daisy is that
> they are written in Java and are not very accessible to screen readers
> on Windows (especially AccessODF).
>
> If you have any other questions about these extensions, you can also
> send them directly to me in French. If you want to discuss accessibility
> and open source software generally in French, I can recommend the list
> "Liberté 0": see <http://liberte0.org/>.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Christophe
>
>
>>
>> Could you help me please?
>>
>> Thank you in advance and please excuse me if my English is not correct.
>>
>>
> --
> Christophe Strobbe
> Akademischer Mitarbeiter
> Adaptive User Interfaces Research Group
> Hochschule der Medien
> Nobelstraße 10
> 70569 Stuttgart
> Tel. +49 711 8923 2749
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] How to return accessible LibreOffice ? (Beginner)

[Tom Davies]

HI :)
I have forwarded this message to the international translators so they
can hopefully pass it on to the French mailing list.  Also forwarded
it to the Users List just in case anyone there can help.  It would be
best dealt with on this list if possible but there is seldom much
traffic here.


I'm not much involved in Accessibility issues so i would want to know
1.  which version of LibreOffice?  or lots of versions?
2.  Which OS, Windows 7?  Ubuntu?  Mac?
3.  is it for a known specific student with a specific known set of
requirements?
4.  Do you already have braille devices?  Would a screen-reader be better?

I'm not sure if all those questions are relevant or possible to answer
(due to possible confidentiality issues with question 3)


The timing of this might be a factor because it's all about to get a
whole lot easier in a few months time (with the LibreOffice 4.3.0
release) but my guess is that the systems need to be in place as soon
as possible to allow them time to check they work adequately.  Also i
avoid the ".0" releases and wait until it becomes more stable with the
4.3.4 and that sounds like it might be a year away.
Regards from
Tom :)



On 5 March 2014 07:39, Doriane-france  wrote:
> Hello,
> I am French, I work in a university and I have to adapt an examination which
> takes place on computer to visual deficient  people. A big part of the
> examination is made with LibreOffice, and I would want to know how to return
> LibreOffice an accessible maximum.
> For this, I know the PDF / UA project, where is this standard? Is he going
> to have extensions or anything there?
>
> The extension AccessODF verifies the accessibility of my created documents,
> odt2braille and odt2daisy are also installed, but there would be of other
> one options, extensions or methods to make accessible LibreOffice to the
> persons with visual impairment ?
>
> Could you help me please?
>
> Thank you in advance and please excuse me if my English is not correct.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/How-to-return-accessible-LibreOffice-Beginner-tp4100083.html
> Sent from the Accessibility mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] How to enable focus & caret tracking with Gnome magnifier

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I think it is a good idea to post a bug report about it anyway
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BugReport
But in that report mention that you think the bug might well be in
Orca or Gnome Magnifier instead.

I suspect that the whole issue might be resolved in the 4.3.x branch
but it wouldn't hurt to have the bug report posted already in case the
problem does need to be solved for that branch too.
Regards from
Tom :)





On 3 March 2014 11:28, Niklas Johansson  wrote:
> Hello again, Bas
>
> I just did a quick test with Fedora 20. A quick and dirty solution to get
> Gnome magnifier to track focus, is to start Orca sreen reader just before
> you start LibreOffice. Once LibreOffice is running you can deactivate Orca
> again. I hope someone has a better tip on how to make LibreOffice expose
> accessible events (isn't there a environment variable that can be set?)
>
> I consider this a bug but I'm not sure if it is LibreOffice that needs to
> read some extra configuration to see if Gnome magnifier is running or the
> other way around.
>
> Regards,
> Niklas Johansson
>
> Bas Cancrinus skrev 2014-03-02 17:24:
>>
>> Hi Niklas,
>>
>> Thanks for your reply. Yes, I have the Gnome magnifier running before I
>> run
>> LibO.
>> Any other ideas?
>>
>> Cheers, Bas
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 5:44 PM, Niklas Johansson
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Bas
>>>
>>> Do you have Gnome Magnifier running when you start LibreOffice?
>>>
>>> If I'm not mistaken LibreOffice checks if there are any
>>> accessibility applications running when it starts up. If it finds any
>>> then
>>> it starts sending accessibility events otherwise it does not.
>>>
>>> On Feodora you should not have to change any option from within
>>> LibreOffice to enable accessibility.
>>>
>>> /Niklas
>>>
>>> lördagen den 1:e mars 2014 skrev Bas Cancrinus :
>>>
>>> Hi Tom,
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately I haven't. I appreciate any help with this issue very
>>>> much!
>>>>
>>>> Cheers, Bas
>>>>
>>>>> Op 27 feb. 2014 om 22:51 heeft Tom Davies  het
>>>>
>>>> volgende geschreven:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi :)
>>>>> Sorry for the lack of responses!  Have you managed to fix this issue
>>>>
>>>> yet?
>>>>>
>>>>> Apologies and regards from
>>>>> Tom :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 26 February 2014 10:57, Bas Cancrinus  wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> I'm on Fedora 20 and I'm trying to get focus & caret tracking with the
>>>>>> Gnome magnifier. The magnifier doesn't respond to any event in LibO
>>>>>> now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LibO should work out of the box with the Gnome magnifier according to:
>>>>>> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Accessibility#GNOME
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But the option "Enable assistive technologies" is not there
>>>>>> (v4.1.5.3).
>>>>>> How to proceed?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many thanks in advance!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers, Bas
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> To unsubscribe e-mail to:
>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> deleted
>>>>
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>>>> deleted
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>>>>
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] A11y status of libreoffice

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Thanks Stuart!  I was wondering what was going on with all that!  The
new code donation seems like a huge thing to implement all at once,
especially given all the other huge additions and changes in 4.2.0.
Good to hear they are migrating the accessibility additions over a
much longer time-frame to give more chance for testing.

Would it be good to ask the Users Mailing List to give the 4.3.0
builds more test-driving and trouble-shooting?  It might be a good
opportunity to try to recruit more people to QA bug-squad.
Regards from
Tom :)



On 2 March 2014 03:23, V Stuart Foote  wrote:
> @Jean-Phillippe,
>
> For the 4.2 release, the LibreOffice ESC elected to keep support of  JRE Java 
> Accessibility API using the Java Access Bridge.
>
> The IAccessible2 based Assistive Technology support is activated from Tools 
> --> Options --> Advanced Optional (unstable) options  'Enable experimental 
> features' check box.  Navigate to that panel and check the box, then restart 
> LibreOffice.
>
> When it comes back up it will be running with IAccessible2 enabled AT support.
>
> The next LibreOffice release, 4.3 --and the current 'master' builds-- have 
> already removed support for Java accessibility bridge based AT support, as 
> has been done for the Apache OpenOffice project for their upcomming AOO 4.1 
> release.
>
> The IAccessible2 AT will interact with current JAWS or NVDA screen reader 
> support.   WindowEyes 8.4 does not render either projects use of  
> IAccessible2 correctly.
>
> Stuart
>
>
> 
> From: MENGUAL Jean-Philippe 
> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 8:35 PM
> To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
> Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] A11y status of libreoffice
>
> Hi,
>
> New info arrive to me about libreoffice accessibility, but they are
> confusing and my tests are not relevant. So I'd like you to make a point
> for me about accessibipty in libreoffice 4.2. Does it need Java Access
> Bridge? I had understood no, but without it, I cannot access to the
> menubar and interact with Writer.
>
> Does it work with Jaws? And NVDA? Is there a mandatory checkbox in
> Options menu? Does it make LibreOffice accessible without Java Access
> Bridge?
>
> Thanp for all your answers.
>
> Regards,
> --
> Jean-Philippe MENGUAL
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] How to enable focus & caret tracking with Gnome magnifier

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Sorry for the lack of responses!  Have you managed to fix this issue yet?
Apologies and regards from
Tom :)


On 26 February 2014 10:57, Bas Cancrinus  wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm on Fedora 20 and I'm trying to get focus & caret tracking with the
> Gnome magnifier. The magnifier doesn't respond to any event in LibO
> now.
>
> LibO should work out of the box with the Gnome magnifier according to:
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Accessibility#GNOME
>
> But the option "Enable assistive technologies" is not there (v4.1.5.3).
> How to proceed?
>
> Many thanks in advance!
>
> Cheers, Bas
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Changes in the LO 4.3-dev start screen, intentilnal or bug?

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Needs "Reply to all" instead of just "Reply to" nowadays
Regards from
Tom :)

On 19 February 2014 16:16, Marco Zehe  wrote:
> Umm, that was definitely meant to go to the list! :) Sorry about that!
>
> Marco
>
> On 2/19/2014 5:14 PM, V Stuart Foote wrote:
>> Marco replied to my question in PM, useful info.  I'd read the NVDA manuals
>> but it didn't click to expose parent/child relations like this... very
>> helpful as always following in AccProbe is very tedious.
>>
>>  Thanks!
>>
>>
>>> Yes, you can use the Object Navigation commands to traverse up and down
>>> the object hierarchy. Insert+NumPad8 will move to the parent,
>>> Insert+NumPad 2 will move to the first child, Insert+NumPad 6 and 4 will
>>> move to the next/previous object respectively. Insert+F1 will then act
>>> on the current navigator object, which then is not the same as the
>>> focused object. To reset the navigator object to the focused object,
>>> either move the focus, or press Insert+NumPad Minus.
>>>
>>> There are also laptop layout key commands for these actions, but they
>>> escape me at the moment. The keyboard reference should help.
>>>
>>> Marco
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-accessibility-Changes-in-the-LO-4-3-dev-start-screen-intentilnal-or-bug-tp4097697p4097943.html
>> Sent from the Accessibility mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Accessible Descriptions have disappeared from most controls in LibreOffice-dev 4.3

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Good work!  Thanks for giving an easy link to your bug-report :)

Good to hear Stuart has already responded;
"V Stuart Foote 2014-02-18 14:55:14 UTC

As best I recall, the additional descriptions have never been present
on the master branch builds -- rather are added in for Christian's
(Cloph) TDF 'release' builds with the L10n translation tables.

Would it be desirable to have at least the untranslated descriptions
present for TB builds of master?

Christian, is that a compile flag that could be set for the other TBs?
"

So i think he is saying that assistive technologies are usually absent
at this stage and usually get added later = just in time for proper
beta-testing.  It's good to hear that people are getting ahead and
trying to test already!

Thanks and regards from
Tom :)



On 18 February 2014 11:01, Marco Zehe  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I found that the accessible descriptions, providing additional
> information to assistive technologies such as screen readers for the
> blind, have disappeared from most controls. I filed a bug accordingly,
> since this feels like an unintentional change to me.
>
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=75151
>
> Marco
>
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Changes in the LO 4.3-dev start screen, intentilnal or bug?

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I am not even sure how to check on this but has anyone else tried
running the 4.3.0 pre-beta-test release and able to see if there is a
dialogue in the right place?

Errr, Marco posted this to the Accessibility list so please make sure
he is cc'd (or in the "To" field) into all replies!
Thanks and regards from
tom :)

On 18 February 2014 09:06, Marco Zehe  wrote:
> Hi there!
>
> While testing the latest 4.3-dev build for a change related to bug
> 74284, I noticed that the following Option pane from LibreOffice 4.2.0
> is no longer present in LibreOffice 4.3.0-dev, even from before the
> mentioned commit:
>
> Developer info for navigator object:
> name: u''
> role: ROLE_OPTIONPANE
> states:
> isFocusable: False
> hasFocus: False
> Python object: 
> Python class mro: (,  'NVDAObjects.window.Window'>, ,  'baseObject.ScriptableObject'>, ,
> )
> description: u'Click an icon to open a new document or a file dialog.'
> location: (122, 186, 1418, 758)
> value: None
> appModule: <'soffice' (appName u'soffice', process ID 4320) at address
> 56b1cb0>
> appModule.productName: u'LibreOffice'
> appModule.productVersion: u'4.2.0.4'
> TextInfo: 
> windowHandle: 524558L
> windowClassName: u'SALFRAME'
> windowControlID: 0
> windowStyle: 349110272
> windowThreadID: 4328
> windowText: u'LibreOffice'
> displayText: u''
> IAccessibleObject: 
> IAccessibleChildID: 0
> IAccessible event parameters: windowHandle=524558L, objectID=-4, childID=-62
> IAccessible accName: u''
> IAccessible accRole: ROLE_SYSTEM_CLIENT
> IAccessible accState:  (0)
> IAccessible accDescription: u'Click an icon to open a new document or a
> file dialog.'
> IAccessible accValue: None
> IAccessible2 windowHandle: 524558
> IAccessible2 uniqueID: -62
> IAccessible2 role: IA2_ROLE_OPTION_PANE
> IAccessible2 states:  (0)
> IAccessible2 attributes: exception: (-2147467259, 'Unspecified error',
> (None, None, None, 0, None))
>
> Has this option pane really been removed from 4.3-dev visually, or is it
> just no longer accessible via a bug that was introduced?
>
> Regards,
> Marco
>
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] OT autocorrect from MS word

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Surely you can just copy & paste the whole of the Open Office "User
Profile" to where Libre Office puts their one?
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UserProfile

I am not sure if this is the "right" or "best" answer but i'm just
curious if it is easy enough to do and helps?
Regards from
Tom :)


On 10 January 2014 17:53, Robert Kingett  wrote:
> I'm just wondering if there's a way that I can import my autocorrect entries
> from Microsoft Office Word to libreoffice, with an extension or add on?
> because of my cerebral palsy I rely on those autocorrect entries to speed up
> typing and improve things overall.
>
> On a different note, is there a way I can import autocorrect entris from
> open office into libre office?
>
>
> ---
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> protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
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[libreoffice-accessibility] Happy 2014 and Calendar

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I'm guessing quite a lot of you are already well into 2014 (or
whichever year number you have recently moved into) but for those of
us who aren't yet, here is another message of good-will from Eliane
and i guess it does go for everyone who is already in their new year
already too.

Happy New Year all, especially each of you  :D
Regards from
Tom :)




On 30 December 2013 20:59, Eliane Domingos de Sousa
 wrote:
> Dear Community,
>
> I would like to wish you all a magnific and splendid new year!
>
> 2014 is coming and it's time to celebrate.
>
> I offer for you this simple card and calendar:
>
> Card:
> https://owncloud.documentfoundation.org/public.php?service=files&t=2411f4e6c737a523e639dd01750b8113
>
> Calendar:
> https://owncloud.documentfoundation.org/public.php?service=files&t=df37a6b4294ff4ff0a0a686f71731fe3
>
> I'm sharing the source file and feel free to use.
>
> Card:
> SVG file:
> https://owncloud.documentfoundation.org/public.php?service=files&t=89566bb10ea5269d2082b03f8e080367
>
> Calendar:
> SVG file:
> https://owncloud.documentfoundation.org/public.php?service=files&t=fb01a48e1f06ceceac91d831664d6c77
>
> Best,
>
> --
> Eliane Domingos de Sousa
> Comunidade LibreOffice Brasil
> Brazilian LibreOffice Community
> Liberte-se, para editar textos, planilhas e apresentações
> usehttp://pt-br.libreoffice.org/  é totalmente de graça.
>
> Experimente o sistema de perguntas e respostas da Comunidade LibreOffice
> Brasil:http://ask.libreoffice.org/pt-br/questions/
>

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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] specialized configuration for LO

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Dragon's "Naturally Speaking" is for PC but has been ported to Mac
too.  Are you using Dragon on Windows?  I'm not sure if it makes a
difference but it might help to know if that is X.P., Vista, Win 7 or
Win 8 or Win 8.1
Regards from
Tom :)

On 25 December 2013 07:16, Eric  wrote:
> I'm trying to figure out if I can customize my instance of LO to work with
> NaturallySpeaking the way it wanted to.
>
> I need an editor for recording little bits of data such as task logs or
> incremental notes. It needs to have the following behavior:
>
> Only one instance of the editor plus file open at any time. If I give a
> command such as "log task", the first time, the editors brought up with a
> file in it, cursor at end of file. Second or more times, the editor with
> that file in it is brought to to focus. this should be independent of normal
> use for LO
>
> File data is saved any time I'm not dictating. For example, at the end of a
> recognition sequence or after a few seconds of no activity.
>
> Can I make LO act like this?
>
>
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[libreoffice-accessibility] Re: [libreoffice-users] help

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I am trying to forwards this to the "Accessibility" mailing list just
in case anyone there has a good answer.
Regards from
Tom :)

On 15 December 2013 18:25, Markus Rakstad-Larsen  wrote:
> Hi, i need help with a problem i found in libreoffice. I wanted to use the 
> program ware to convert documents into pef files so i can emboss them on my 
> braille embosser. The issue is that i’m blind and have to use voiceover on my 
> mac. When i started libreoffice and open the extension file for braille 
> everything worked perfectly, but when i shall set the settings for the 
> embosser conversion in format menu (braille) the problem came. The 
> popup-buttons dint work with the screenreader witch  means that i can’t get 
> the settings done. I asked for help and thought that this might just be one 
> time i need to adjust this parameters so thats okay. Than i should open the 
> file-menu and hit export to braille. I did so and the problem came again. 
> Here i need to select the filetype (per) each time i shall export something 
> and the popup thing dosnt work. What to do?
>
> Best regards Markus.
>
>
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[libreoffice-accessibility] Re: [MariaDB Announce] MariaDB Java Client 1.1.4 Released

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I don't know if anyone uses MariaDb as a back-end for Base here but i thought 
maybe a few people might be interested in this recent announcement from them.  

Regards from 
Tom :)  





 From: MariaDB Announce List 
To: annou...@mariadb.org 
Sent: Tuesday, 10 September 2013, 18:21
Subject: [MariaDB Announce] MariaDB Java Client 1.1.4 Released
 

The MariaDB project is pleased to announce the immediate availability
of the MariaDB Java Client 1.1.4. This is a Stable (GA) release.

- - Links  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

MariaDB Java Client 1.1.4
  - Release Notes:
      https://mariadb.com/kb/en/mariadb-java-client-114-release-notes/
  - Changelog:
      https://mariadb.com/kb/en/mariadb-java-client-114-changelog/
  - Downloads:
      https://downloads.mariadb.org/client-java/1.1.4/

  Overview of the MariaDB Java Client:
      https://kb.askmonty.org/en/about-the-mariadb-java-client/


- - Quality - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The project always strives for quality, but in reality, nothing is
perfect. Please take time to report any issues you encounter at:

  http://mariadb.org/jira


- - Support MariaDB - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

If you would like to contribute to MariaDB, please see our
"contributing" and "donations" pages. We also have merchandise
available in a cafepress store.

- https://kb.askmonty.org/en/contributing

- https://mariadb.org/en/donate/

- http://www.cafepress.com/mariadb

We hope you enjoy MariaDB!

-- 
MariaDB
        Website - http://mariadb.org
        Twitter - http://twitter.com/mariadb
        Google+ - http://google.com/+mariadb
       Facebook - http://fb.com/MariaDB.dbms
  Knowledge Base - http://mariadb.com/kb
___
announce mailing list
annou...@mariadb.org
https://lists.askmonty.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/announce
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[libreoffice-accessibility] "Annual LibreOffice Conference", call for Papers extended until August 22

[Tom Davies]

>>
>> From: "announce+h...@documentfoundation.org" 
>> 
>>To: tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk 
>>Sent: Friday, 9 August 2013, 17:22
>>Subject: Subject: Digest of annou...@documentfoundation.org issue 145 (160)
>> 
>>
>>Topics (messages 160 through 160):
>>- [tdf-announce] Call for Papers extended until August 22
>>-       160 - Florian Effenberger 
>>- 
>>Dear community,
>>
>>from September 24 to 27, this year's annual LibreOffice Conference takes 
>>place in Milano, Italy. It is the major annual event for all LibreOffice 
>>contributors, supporters, adopters and users, and will be jointly hosted 
>>by the Milan University together with the LibreOffice community.
>>
>>We hereby announce that the Call for Papers will be extended until 
>>August 22, and invite all of you to send in your talk proposals for the 
>>conference.
>>
>>Whether you've been developing cool and exciting features, are using 
>>LibreOffice in your corporation, or would like to talk about the 
>>OpenDocument
 format ecosystem at large, send in your talk and present it 
>>to a large and diverse audience at LibOCon 2013!
>>
>>All details to the CfP are available at 
>>http://conference.libreoffice.org/2013/en/call-for-papers
>>
>>Looking forward to your proposals!
>>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] [Software Livre Brasil] Vitorio Furusho quer ser seu(sua) amigo(a).

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I know Brasil is keen on OpenSource and often calls it "Libre" or "Livre" but i 
don't know whether this is worth signing up for even if you speak Brasilian 
version of Portugese.  It might even be spam.  The website link looked kinda Ok 
in Gnu&Linux but i would be wary and not open it in Windows jic.  

Also please don't send emails to the "no reply" address that appears to have 
written to us in the first place

Regards from 
Tom :)  







>
> From: Software Livre Brasil 
>To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Thursday, 8 August 2013, 5:53
>Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] [Software Livre Brasil] Vitorio Furusho 
>quer ser seu(sua) amigo(a).
> 
>
>Olá accessibility@global.libreoffice.org,
>
>Vitorio Furusho está te convidando a participar do Software Livre Brasil.
>
>Para aceitar o convite, por favor siga este link:
>
>http://softwarelivre.org/account/signup?invitation_code=l33p5zp68x3pzbqaxs3yi9uttjodpog5lg9a
>
>--
>Software Livre Brasil
>
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Komercinis Pasiulymas

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Sorry about that one!  It translates to 

"
Hi, would like to offer equipment - Mobile conditioning, dehumidifiers, 
humidifiers, air purifiers are able to improve the air in your premises.
 Attachments can find the price list with prices. If your not interested
 in this letter to let you time and sugaisinomu paparasciausiai please 
delete this message.
"

Apols and regards from another moderator
Tom :)  





>
> From: Svarus Oras 
>To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Wednesday, 7 August 2013, 5:08
>Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] Komercinis Pasiulymas
> 
>
>Sveiki, Noretume pasiulyti irenginius - mobilius kondicionierius, sausintuvus, 
>drekintuvus, oro valytuvus kurie galetu pagerinti ora Jusu patalpose. 
>Prisegtuke rasite kainorasti su kainomis. Jeigu Jusu sis laiskas nesudomino 
>atleiskite kad sugaisinomu Jusu laika ir prasome paparasciausiai istrinti si 
>laiska.
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>
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Improvements to Mac Accessibility

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
+1
from me too.  Also many thanks to Niklas Johansson and Stuart and to the rest 
of their team too.  It's great to hear about such advances as it's a real boost 
to morale.

Regards from
Tom :)  




>
> From: V Stuart Foote 
>To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Sunday, 4 August 2013, 20:47
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Improvements to Mac Accessibility
> 
>
>Yes, indeed! 
>
>A great welcome to Boris Dušek who has dived in and is unwinding some of the
>long standing NSAccessibility bridge issues supporting the OSX builds.
>
>Stuart
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>View this message in context: 
>http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-accessibility-Improvements-to-Mac-Accessibility-tp4068371p4068807.html
>Sent from the Accessibility mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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>
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Java JRE 7 based Java Access Bridge is now functional

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
+1
A big thank you to David O.  Also thanks to Stuart for keeping on chasing this 
up, his hard work, advocating for us and keeping us informed.  
many thanks Stuart and David O! :D
Regards from 
Tom :)  





>
> From: V Stuart Foote 
>To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Sunday, 14 July 2013, 17:13
>Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] Java JRE 7 based Java Access Bridge is 
>now functional
> 
>
>Folks,
>
>The Java Access Bridge  v2.0.3 incorporated into Java 7 runtimes since JRE
>1.7u6 will now work with the Java Accessibility API on Windows to provide
>LibreOffice (and Apache OpenOffice) support using Assistive Technologies
>like JAWS or NVDA.
>
>LibreOffice users on Windows OSs,  needing accessibility support are no
>longer limited to use of a Java 6 runtime--and its dificult to configure
>Java Access Bridge v2.0.2.   We can safely upgrade to a current JRE 1.7
>release and activate the access bridge with a "jabswitch -enable" command
>entered from an elevated permission command prompt, or using the Windows
>Ease of Access Center. See these  activation instructions
><http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/access/enable_and_test.html>
>  
>from Oracle
>
>Technical details of the issue are in FDO  bug 58995
><https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58995>   or Apache OpenOffice 
>bug 121510 <https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121510>  .
>
>A big thank you for some dedicated debug and patch work by David O!
>
>Stuart
>
>
>
>
>--
>View this message in context: 
>http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Java-JRE-7-based-Java-Access-Bridge-is-now-functional-tp4065392.html
>Sent from the Accessibility mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Backend APIs to work in headless mode

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Oops.  I think you are right and that makes it my 2nd mistake on the moderators 
list
Apols and regards from 
Tom :)  





>
> From: Sophie Gautier 
>To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Wednesday, 26 June 2013, 12:19
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Backend APIs to work in headless mode
> 
>
>Hi Tom,
>On 26/06/2013 13:14, Tom Davies wrote:
>> Hi :) Your message appears to be truncated and unfinshed so please 
>> let us know what your full questions is.
>
>Well considering his other mail on the website list where he said to be
>Joel Madero, I consider his mail as spam (why I didn't let it go through).
>
>Kind regards
>Sophie
>
>-- 
>Sophie Gautier 
>Tel:+33683901545
>Membership & Certification Committee Member - Co-founder
>The Document Foundation
>
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>
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Backend APIs to work in headless mode

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Your message appears to be truncated and unfinshed so please let us know what 
your full questions is.  

Also you are not fully subscribed at the moment. There should be a confirmation 
email in your junk/spam mail folder that you need to reply to.  You don't need 
to write anything in that reply as it doesn't get read by anyone.  A "Bot" 
receives it and then completes the registration process automatically.  

Regards from  
Tom :)  





>
> From: tingliu 
>To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Wednesday, 26 June 2013, 9:57
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Backend APIs to work in headless mode
> 
>
>I am using JODConverter from Google project along with Open Office at the 
>
>
>
>___
>WOW Gold <http://mmo4k.com/wow-gold-kaufen-4/WoW-Gold-kaufen-5/>  | Wow Gold
>Kaufen <http://mmo4k.com/wow-gold-kaufen-4/WoW-Gold-kaufen-5/>  | Aion Kinah
><http://mmo4k.com/aion-kinah-566/aion-kinah-kaufen/aion-kinah-1967/>  |
>Diablo 3 Gold Kaufen <http://mmo4k.com/Diablo-3-gold/>  
>
>
>
>--
>View this message in context: 
>http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-accessibility-Backend-APIs-to-work-in-headless-mode-tp2918215p4063069.html
>Sent from the Accessibility mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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[libreoffice-accessibility] Big Bug Hunt, 20th June to 5th July

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Ooops!!  I forgot to let people here know about the QA competition! :(  There 
are "LibreOffice" t shirts to be won!  


Seems like the race is on to triage bugs quickly, perhaps a chance to "raise 
the profile" of your 'favourite' bugs!  The competition runs until 5th July so 
other people may have had a good head-start but there is still plenty of time 
left to make a significant dent in the outstanding bugs! :)

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Projects/Bug_Triage_Contest


Hmm, actually now that so many more people are aware of what to do to triage it 
might be easier to get help if you have never done anything like it before. ;)  


Note that triage does not involve any coding skills.  It's about routine office 
administration type of stuff such as making sure duplicates are correctly 
linked.  The most technical bit might be trying to work out what level of 
priority or urgency to give  a bug but i suspect that you only have to do the 
bits you feel comfortable doing to free-up other people to do the bits they can 
do.  


Good luck and happy hunting to all! :D
Regards from 
Tom :)  






>
> From: Joel Madero 
>To: Libreoffice-qa ; 
>"us...@global.libreoffice.org" ; libreoffice-dev 
> 
>Sent: Friday, 21 June 2013, 19:35
>Subject: [libreoffice-users] Bug Confirmation Event Update
> 
>
>Hi All,
>
>Quick update: those of you participating our doing an incredible job, if
>others want to join I encourage you more than ever to do so, it's really
>been a great experience for me and has once again provided proof that
>together, we can get a tremendous amount done.
>
>In less than 2 days (42.5 hours there about) we're down 98 bugs in the list
>which is about 8.2% of the total count, my personal goal -- which I admit I
>thought was a bit naive and hoping for too much - was to get the list down
>by 25% or about 300 bugs, obviously I underestimated.
>
>
>Thanks to those participating, for those thinking about it, please join!
>https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Projects/Bug_Triage_Contest
>
>and the QA IRC channel (#libreoffice-qa) is very active if you'd like to
>come and see one of the components which makes the wheels move forward.
>
>
>Warm Regards,
>Joel
>
>-- 
>*Joel Madero*
>LibreOffice QA Volunteer
>jmadero@gmail.com
>
>
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[libreoffice-accessibility] [ANN] LibreOffice 4.1.0 RC1 available

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Ok, so the release has been officially announced now so new downloads of it now 
should work normally and be possible to install alongside other versions as 
Stuart was describing yday.  


Many apologies for the extra traffic and confusion!  I thought there would be a 
few days or even a week before this release was made official.  

Apols and regards from
Tom :)  






>
> From: Thorsten Behrens 
>To: LibreOffice ; 
>l...@global.libreoffice.org; proje...@global.libreoffice.org; 
>libreoffice...@lists.freedesktop.org 
>Sent: Friday, 21 June 2013, 17:44
>Subject: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANN] LibreOffice 4.1.0 RC1 available
> 
>
>Dear Community,
>
>The Document Foundation is pleased to announce the first release
>candidate of our new LibreOffice 4.1. The upcoming 4.1 will be our
>sixth major release in two and a half years, and comes with a nice set
>of new features. Please be aware that LibreOffice 4.1 RC1 is not ready
>yet for production use, you should continue to use LibreOffice 4.0.4
>for that.
>
>For further milestones towards 4.1, please refer to our release plan
>timings here:
>
>https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan/4.1#4.1.0_release
>
>You can find a (work-in-progress) list of new features for 4.1 on this
>page - please feel free to extend with stuff we've missed, or amend
>text-only descriptions with nice screenshots:
>
>https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.1
>
>The release is available for Windows, Linux and Mac OS X from our QA
>builds download page at
>
>  http://www.libreoffice.org/download/pre-releases/
>
>Should you find bugs, please report them to the FreeDesktop Bugzilla:
>
>  https://bugs.freedesktop.org
>
>A good way to assess the release candidate quality is to run some
>specific manual tests on it, our TCM wiki page has more details:
>
>http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Testing/Regression_Tests#Full_Regression_Test
>
>For other ways to get involved with this exciting project - you can
>e.g. contribute code:
>
>  http://www.libreoffice.org/get-involved/developers/
>
>translate LibreOffice to your language:
>
>  http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice_Localization_Guide
>
>or help with funding our operations:
>
>  http://donate.libreoffice.org/
>
>A list of known issues and fixed bugs with 4.1.0 RC1 is available
>from our wiki:
>
>  http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Releases/4.1.0/RC1
>
>Let us close again with a BIG Thank You! to all of you having
>contributed to the LibreOffice project - this release would not have
>been possible without your help.
>
>Yours,
>
>The Document Foundation Board of Directors
>
>The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
>Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
>Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: LibreOffice 4.1.0 RC1 test builds available

[Tom]

Hi :)
It is just that there appears to be a warning in the announcement
"NOTE: This build is in a release configuration and _will_ replace your
existing LibreOffice install on Windows. "
It's about 75% of the way down the announcement and not at all obvious which
is why i didn't notice it at first.  

Regards from
Tom :)  



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[libreoffice-accessibility] Re: LibreOffice 4.1.0 RC1 test builds available

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I have only just noticed that on Windows you can't do a parallel install of 
this version.  So, if you are using Windows then please find some other way of 
testing it.  Perhaps on a spare or old machine?
Regards from 
Tom :)  





>
> From: Tom Davies 
>To: "accessibility@global.libreoffice.org" 
> 
>Sent: Friday, 21 June 2013, 1:50
>Subject: LibreOffice 4.1.0 RC1 test builds available
> 
>
>
>Hi :)
>The 4.1.0 beta-test is available for testing but please don't tell too many 
>people because it's only hosted on a small server that can't cope with much 
>traffic.  This is an excellent time to test the 4.1.0 but please avoid wiping 
>out your old version just in case this version doesn't work well enough!  You 
>could try installing it alongside, as a parallel install or even better would 
>be to use a spare machine or something to test it on.  
>
>
>
>Right now and for the next 15-20 days is when the most people will be trying 
>to make sure the 4.1.0 works well and gets as many bugs fixed as possible.  
>
>Good luck and many regards from 
>
>Tom :)  
>
>
>
>
>>
>> From: Fridrich Strba 
>>To: LibreOffice ; 
>>l...@global.libreoffice.org; proje...@global.libreoffice.org; Libreoffice-qa 
>> 
>>Sent: Thursday, 20 June 2013, 13:44
>>Subject: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANN] LibreOffice 4.1.0 RC1 test builds available
>> 
>>
>>Hi *,
>>
>>for the upcoming new version 4.1.0, the RC1 builds now start to be
>>available on pre-releases.
 This build is slated to be first release
>>candidate build on the way towards 4.1.0, please refer to our release
>>plan timings here:
>>
>>http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan#4.1_release
>>
>>Builds are now being uploaded to a public (but non-mirrored - so don't
>>spread news too widely!) place, as soon as they're available. Grab
>>them here:
>>
>>http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/pre-releases/
>>
>>If you've a bit of time, please give them a try & report *critical*
>>bugs not yet in bugzilla here, so we can incorporate them into the
>>release notes. Please note that it takes approximately 24 hours to
>>populate the mirrors, so that's about the time we have to collect
>>feedback.
>>
>>NOTE: This build is in a release configuration and _will_ replace
 your
>>existing LibreOffice install on Windows.
>>
>>The list of fixed bugs relative to 4.1.0 beta2 is here:
>>
>>http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/pre-releases/src/bugs-libreoffice-4-1-release-4.1.0.1.log
>>
>>
>>So playing with the areas touched there also greatly appreciated - and
>>validation that those bugs are really fixed.
>>
>>Thanks a lot for your help,
>>Fridrich
>>
>>___
>>LibreOffice mailing list
>>libreoff...@lists.freedesktop.org
>>http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Seeking for list moderators

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Me too.  Stuart is likely to be much better than me at this but if i can 
support him a bit then that would be fantastic.  


So, if you could make me and Stuart both moderators of the Accessibility List 
that would be excellent.  Is there a limit on number of people?  If so i would 
happily stand down if someone else wants to do it because there are other lists 
i could moderate instead if required.  So, i wouldn't be hurt or anything.  

Regards from 

Tom :)  





>
> From: V Stuart Foote 
>To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Sunday, 5 May 2013, 17:38
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Seeking for list moderators
> 
>
>Florian,
>
>Happy to moderate this list.
>
>Stuart
>
>
>
>--
>View this message in context: 
>http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-accessibility-Seeking-for-list-moderators-tp4053726p4053961.html
>Sent from the Accessibility mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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>
>
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Possilbe UNO Accessibility API -Java Access Bridge issue in current build of Master while using NVDA for AT

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Thanks :)  That is all good.  I only went off-list in case it was a real 
mistake = to let you have a chance to deal with it yourself.  Some people get 
embarrassed by such things in public.  Also it would have been the first typo 
like that i've seen Stuart make (i think).  
Regards from 
Tom :)  





>
> From: V Stuart Foote 
>To: Tom Davies ; 
>"accessibility@global.libreoffice.org"  
>Sent: Tuesday, 23 April 2013, 11:31
>Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] Possible UNO Accessibility API -Java 
>Access Bridge issue in current build of Master while using NVDA  for AT
> 
>
>Hi Tom,
>
>No it was an issue with the 4.1.0 daily builds of master. The bug listed, 
>fdo#63680, deals with indeterminant crashes of Writer on Windows builds of 
>master--the last viable TinderBox build occurred 8 April, so this issue has 
>been on the Most Annoying Bugs list for the 4.1 development.
>
>Also, turned out to be a problem over on the NV Access, NVDA side where one of 
>the modules for handling Java Access Bridge based content was misconfigured in 
>their upcoming 2013.1 release as compared to the stable 2012.3.1 version--that 
>has been corrected.
>
>With the TDF and LibreOffice with 3.6.7, 4.0.3 and ongoing development of 
>master (currently notated 4.1.0+ alpha) I cycle through all the branches 
>testing for Windows (and occasionally Linux and OSX builds) looking at general 
>usability and trying to identify accessibility issues.
>
>At any time I will have  4 or 5 LibreOffice or Apache OpenOffice installations 
>and assistive technologies loaded. Not too difficult to accomplish, just have 
>to pay attention to configuration and understand when registry and user 
>profiles have to be removed or relocated.
>
>This Wiki entry is helpful for anyone interested, always looking for committed 
>QA participants who can work an issue:
>
>Installing several versions of LibreOffice in parallel - The Document 
>Foundation Wiki<https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Installing_in_parallel>
>
>Stuart
>
>p.s. -- hope you don't mind that I put your note back on-list, figure some 
>folks might have been confused and would benefit from an explanation.
>
>
>
>From: Tom Davies [tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk]
>Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 5:05 AM
>To: V Stuart Foote
>Subject: off-list 4.0.1 alpha? Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Possilbe UNO 
>Accessibility API - Java Access Bridge issue in current build of Master while 
>using NVDA for AT
>
>Hi :)
>I don't think anyone noticed or else they understood what you meant but i take 
>it you meant the 4.0.1 rather than the 4.1.0?  I don't think the 4.1.0 is out 
>yet?
>Regards from
>Tom :)
>
>
>
>From: V Stuart Foote 
>To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
>Sent: Saturday, 20 April 2013, 22:05
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Possilbe UNO Accessibility API - Java 
>Access Bridge issue in current build of Master while using NVDA for AT
>
>So is not an issue with accessibility API and Java Access Bridge  - problem
>confirmed  to be issue of  FDO#63680
><https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=63680>  against LibreOffice
>4.1.0 alpha build TB 6 build on 2013-04-18 where Writer is crashing.
>
>Not JAB and UAA related as issue occurs even when they are not enabled.
>
>
>
>
>--
>View this message in context: 
>http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-accessibility-Possilbe-UNO-Accessibility-API-Java-Access-Bridge-issue-in-current-build-oT-tp4050948p4051299.html
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Programmers are unable to extract pressed keys and text sequences in LibreOffice 4.x.

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Have you been able to solve this already?  Did you get any answers?  Many 
apologies but i think the low traffic list went very quiet over Easter.  
Normally it relies on 1 or 2 total stars and if they are not around the rest of 
us feel a bit helpless.

I am forwarding this to the Users List just in case someone there can help
Apols and regards from 
Tom :)  





>
> From: Olav Dahlum 
>To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 13:15
>Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] Programmers are unable to extract pressed 
>keys and text sequences in LibreOffice 4.x.
> 
>
>Software like Lingdys and Lingright from http://lingit.no/ are unable to
>work with 4.x.
>Torbjørn Norgård  told me that no text sequences or
>pressed keys can be extracted and thus the software are unable to assist
>the user. I know that some older accessibility API's etc was removed, but
>could someone shed some more light on this subject?
>
>-- 
>Olav Dahlum
>
>PGP key ID: 0xA6BD1795
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] New to the list,,,

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
It is very low traffic but just post each question as a separate thread, if 
possible, and you might find answers happen within a day or so.  It would be 
nice if the team was more active and took charge more but there are some good 
people here doing some great stuff behind the scenes.
Good luck, welcome in and regards from 
Tom :)  





>
> From: Keith Reedy 
>To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Tuesday, 9 April 2013, 16:04
>Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] New to the list,,,
> 
>Hello every one,
>
>I have just been on the list for a few days and as of yet I have seen no 
>traffic, so, I am guessing that this is a low traffic list and that is a good 
>thing.
>
>I am Keith Reedy director of Bibles for the Blind in the US,
>www.biblesfortheblind.org
>
>We have just begun to use LibreOffice with the ODT to Braille extension to 
>translate print documents in to braille.  I would like to talk with some one 
>who is using LibreOffice in the same manner about a couple of things I have 
>found to see if some one has found a workaround.
>
>I am using an iMac with OS 10.8 and we do have a couple of 10.6 iMacs on site 
>as well.
>
>Thanks.
>Keith Reedy
>keithre...@fastmail.net
>
>
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] introduction

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
If you are not sure if someone is subscribed to a list you can always include 
them in the CC or To fields to make sure they do get the message so i have put 
Jonathan in the To field so he gets to see the thread so far.  


I also found this quote from the Users List
"
From: Samuel Mehrbrodt 
To: 

Hi,

Do you have a favorite bug you want to get solved, but cannot do it
yourself? You would even pay some money, but cannot contract a Company
for this?

Here's a simple way how to do this, thanks to www.freedomsponsors.org
<http://www.freedomsponsors.org>

1. Login on www.freedomsponsors.org <http://www.freedomsponsors.org>
2. Copy the URL from Bugzilla and Sponsor it in FreedomSponsors!
3. Enter the amount you are willing to pay and publish the Issue
4. You'll get notified when someone solves the bug so you can pay him

Your advantage is, that you have to pay only when the Issue has been
resolved, so there is no risk with that. Payments are done via Paypal.
Others can join and add their offer to the bug.

Here
<http://www.freedomsponsors.org/core/issue/?s=&project_id=149&project_name=LibreOffice>
 
are some existing LibreOffice Issues, if you want to support them.

All the best,
Samuel
"

(thanks to Hylton)

I'm not sure if it helps but it might be a good route.  


Is it time-effective to fix bugs with the current java-based system when the 
rest of the project is moving away from Java on the grounds that Java keeps 
breaking down or having serious problems?  Is it possible to use funding to 
kick-start a re-write in Python or C++ or something?   Is there funding?  

Regards from
Tom :)  





>
> From: Caolán McNamara 
>To: Sophie Gautier  
>Cc: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org; libreoffice 
> 
>Sent: Friday, 22 February 2013, 11:27
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] introduction
> 
>On Fri, 2013-02-22 at 09:29 +0100, Sophie Gautier wrote:
>> Hi Jonathan,
>> 
>> Thanks a lot for your proposal. I'm sending your mail to the developers
>> list so we are sure they are aware of it.
>> 
>> Kind regards
>> Sophie
>> On 21/02/2013 23:33, Jonathan Nadeau wrote:
>> > Hello list,
>> > 
>> > My name is Jonathan Nadeau and I'm the executive director of the
>> > Accessible Computing Foundation located here
>> > 
>> > http://www.accessiblecomputingfoundation.org
>> > 
>> > I'm looking to fund some developers to fix some accessibility bugs with
>> > Libreoffice and the Orca screen reader.
>
>Nadeau isn't cc'ed on Sophie's original email and I don't know if he's
>subscribed to any of these email lists, but I think it's worth
>mentioning that the work in progress of moving our dialogs to the gtk
>builder file format now makes it super super easy to: 
>a) set that a label is the right mnemonic widget for something else,
>which sets up the default a11y label for, label by relationships between
>them
>b) add a11y descriptions, a11y names, explicit label-for, label-by and
>member-of etc relations
>
>I'm not particularly a11y experienced, but I fired up orca a few weeks
>ago and tweaked our a11y support a bit until it read out the
>"format->title page" dialog the same way as it would read it if it was a
>native gtk dialog.
>
>Obviously there's a lot more a11y-wise to just our dialogs, but at least
>for those new-format dialogs anyone with experience in tweaking gtk a11y
>issues via glade can directly apply that experience to our new dialogs.
>
>C.
>
>
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[libreoffice-accessibility] Re: [libreoffice-users] Accessibility issues - BLIND USER

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Sorry i didn't forward this to the right list earlier!  Have you had any luck 
solving the problems?  I'm not sure if you are subscribed to the right lists so 
i have made sure you are being CC'd so that you get the responses.
Apols and regards from
Tom :)  





>
> From: les 
>To: Wes Will  
>Cc: LibreOffice User Support Mailing List  
>Sent: Wednesday, 20 February 2013, 17:03
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Accessibility issues - BLIND USER
> 
>Hi, Wes,    
>    There is an Braille institute in LA, just off the 101 near Universal
>City as I recall.  They should be able to shed some light on these
>issues.  
>    Here is their EMAIL address:
>    l...@brailleinstitute.org
>
>
>    Or you can contact a local institute near where you live and they might
>be able to help.  
>
>    There are other options in California, but I just know a bit because my
>wife had a vision impaired friend.
>
>    As my own vision is failing and I have a friend whose vision is also
>failing, this topic will become more and more important to me as well.
>Screen readers suck on even their best days, but given the
>alternatives
>
>Good luck.
>
>LesH
>On Wed, 2013-02-20 at 01:33 -0600, Wes Will wrote:
>> Greetings.  Just signed up for the list.  Have NOT had the time yet to 
>> get to the archives and dig for prior messages to this list regarding 
>> blind users, so if this is already old news, please forgive me and drop 
>> a link to the pertinent archives.
>> 
>> I will assuredly be delving for this topic as soon as it is possible. 
>> I'll likely wait for daylight, it is presently 0100 hours here (U.S. 
>> CST) and it has been a long day.
>> 
>> The problem is that I have been talking LibreOffice up to the heavens to 
>> a blind friend.  He is stuck in a WinBlows environment, has the 
>> latest-version-but-one of the JAWS screen reader, and has been scorched 
>> by M$ Turd one too many times.  It -does- read through his screen 
>> reader, but their "ribbon" foolishness has made the thing completely and 
>> utterly useless to him.  Simple things that he has always been able to 
>> do with a keyboard shortcut (Ctrl-O for opening a new document for 
>> instance) no longer work.  One keyboard command might do one thing if a 
>> certain 'ribbon component' is active, and a completely different thing 
>> if another is active.  He needs a reliable productivity suite, and I 
>> think LibreOffice -ought- to be perfect for him.
>> 
>> Except that it ISN'T.  He installed it, and was greeted with SILENCE 
>> from his screen reader.  Keyboard commands, like that Ctrl-O, work fine. 
>>   It just won't read the screen to him.  Nightmare time for a totally 
>> blind person who just wants it to talk to him like all the other 
>> applications he uses.
>> 
>> So I start looking, and I find that there is a REQUIRED additional JAVA 
>> API that must be installed.  Roadblock ONE.  It's on an Oracle site, 
>> which ISN'T all that 'blind friendly' and requires license acceptance 
>> via a bloody MOUSE CLICK on the web page.  "MOUSE" and "BLIND" do NOT go 
>> together.  I can get him by that, eventually, by downloading it myself 
>> (done) and sending it to him, but then it goes to roadblock TWO.  The 
>> API installer is NOT 'blind friendly' either, requiring that he unzip 
>> the package, find the correct file for his OS, start it, and then answer 
>> (BY MOUSE-CLICKS AGAIN!!) several pages of information.  I cannot walk 
>> him through this, as I do NOT use Microsoft ANYTHING.  I cannot simply 
>> do it for him - he is in California and I am in Illinois.  There is a 
>> 3000 kilometer gap between his keyboard and my hand.
>> 
>> Is there ANY WAY that the correct API can be embedded into the 
>> LibreOffice package, or put there as an option in the install process?
>> 
>> I.E. start the LibreOffice install; somewhere near the beginning be 
>> presented with "Add Accessibility Java Extension API to LibreOffice;" 
>> select "Accept Oracle License Agreement;" Continue installation WITH the 
>> added Java API automatically being unpacked and installed in the proper 
>> place.
>> 
>> Or even a previously-accessibility-extended-install version of the 
>> LibreOffice suite installer.
>> 
>> Can anyone get me past these roadblocks?  I'm at a loss here, I DO think 
>> that FOSS software will work well for him, but getting it to actually 
>> WORK in the screen reader environment i

Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Office 3.6 and Orca 3.7

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Did you manage to solve this in the end?  Sorry, i lost track a bit during the 
snows here.
Apols and regards from
Tom :)  





>
> From: Fernando Botelho 
>To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Wednesday, 23 January 2013, 12:07
>Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] Office 3.6 and Orca 3.7
> 
>Hi everyone,
>
>I am having difficulty with:
>libreoffice_1:3.6.2~rc2-0ubuntu4_all.deb
>
>The problem is that the Orca screen reader is not able to read cell 
>coordinates in Calc as it used to back in OpenOfice. The Orca and at-spi 
>versions I am using are:
>gnome-orca_3.7.0.94-0ubuntu0.1_all.deb
>and
>at-spi2-core_2.6.1-0ubuntu0.1_i386.deb
>
>The files that seem to be involved are:
>/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/orca/scripts/apps/soffice/speech_generator.py
>/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/orca/scripts/apps/soffice/braille_generator.py
>
>Functions that have the bug:
>def _generateRowHeader(self, obj, **args)
>def _generateNewRowHeader(self, obj, **args)
>def _generateColumnHeader(self, obj, **args)
>def _generateNewColumnHeader(self, obj, **args)
>
>Specific line in the code:
>table in self._script.dynamicRowHeaders
>
>
>In this line table is searched as a dictionary key:
>self._script.dynamicRowHeaders
>
>
>The expectation is that the keys be constant  whereas a variable of the table 
>type is not.
>
>So this error is generated:
>type Table is unhashable
>
>For this reason, apparently, Orca does not speak the cell info it should.
>
>As this is fairly basic funcionality, I imagine someone has already figured it 
>out. Can someone point me to the solution or patch?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Fernando
>
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Re: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Funding Priorities List update and need help

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Wow!!  I really like that idea too! :)  
Regards from 
Tom :)  





>
> From: Fernando Botelho 
>To: V Stuart Foote  
>Cc: "accessibility@global.libreoffice.org" 
> 
>Sent: Thursday, 31 January 2013, 11:55
>Subject: Re: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: 
>Funding Priorities List update and need help
> 
>Hi everyone,
>
>I am new on the list, but I just want to add my two cents on what Stuart is 
>suggesting.
>
>First, I am in agreement. Second, I would like to suggest that 
>accessibility-related bugs be ranked, even if informally, so that when smaller 
>projects such as my own--which will not be able to fund a big-picture 
>accessibility push throughout the project--might be able to fund specific bug 
>fixing.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Fernando
>_
>Fernando H. F. Botelho, Ashoka Fellow
>
>Director - F123
>http://F123.org/en/
>http://YouTube.com/user/F123Fernando?feature=CBAQwRs%3D
>
>2012 Social Entrepreneur of the Future - Folha de São Paulo
>2012 Make More Health Fellow - Boehringer Ingelheim
>2010 Winner "A World of Solutions" - Inter-American Development Bank
>
>GoogleTalk: fhfbotelho
>
>Facebook.com/F123.org           | Linkedin.com/in/f123org
>Google+: Plus.Google.com/s/F123 | Twitter: @F123org
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Funding Priorities List update and need help

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I think it would be good for someone else here to put that forwards to the BoD 
discuss list.  They don't take much notice of me.  Stuart is there any chance 
you could champion that request through the BoD discuss list?

Personally i think it would be great if they had several different requests for 
how to spend/invest money to help with accessibility issues.  If those 
different ideas were for different amounts of money then it might help them 
pick and choose 1 for now and perhaps others later.  

A "Community Development" person would not be directly involved with doing 
coding work or anything like that.  Their main work would be to 
 * attract people into the team, 
 * "raise the profile" (get people familiar with the idea of and hopefully help 
them realise it is a LOT more important than they currently realise) of the 
team generally both inside TDF and externally, 
 * raise the profile of accessibility issues and what could be done to help 
(for example the websites team might find some advice useful and the docs team 
might find advice helpful too), 
 * perhaps approach outside projects that are good at improving accessibility 
issues in projects and get some help or 
 * maybe seek  funding opportunities and 
 * to liaise  between the different  people involved on different lists so that 
  1.  people here know of developments and 
  2.  so that people doing the work don't feel quite so isolated and 
under-appreciated when they are working on accessibility issues.  

Err all that sort of thing, or at least to help build up the team and kinda 
help other people to do those 'tasks'.  I am not sure i would be good at the 
job because
  1.  I have a tendency to annoy people and am already "in the bad books" of 
various people in the BoD
  2.  I don't directly experience the issues that need to be worked on so i 
only understand the problem AFTER someone has told me about it, which is kinda 
too late.  We need someone to pre-empt or instantly understand issues and be 
able to deal with FUD quickly by understanding the reality.  

So, most of those things are things that Stuart does naturally or could do 
better if we were able to support him better rather than relying on him finding 
time outside of work and other commitments.  Ideally by supporting him better.  

Regards from
Tom :)  





>
> From: V Stuart Foote 
>To: "accessibility@global.libreoffice.org" 
> 
>Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2013, 16:56
>Subject: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: 
>Funding Priorities List update and need help
> 
>Tom, and other Accessibility advocates...
>
>Thanks, but I view my personal role as QA and have really only had to focus on 
>the Windows & Java Accessibility Bridge side because of the exceptional QA and 
>development work being done by Roman Eisele with the OSX Apple Accessibility 
>API, and by Joanmarie Diggs on the Linux A11y AT-SPI & ATK support delivered 
>via Gnome ORCA. 
>
>In truth changes are needed with the underlying UNO Accessibility API (a 
>derivative of an old Java design) to incorporate ongoing work of the A11y 
>group, Microsoft, Apple and Google and to ensure that LibreOffice assistive 
>technologies span all the development platforms with a consistent API that 
>integrates with all LibreOffice components and implements accessibility roles 
>needed by a broader range of AT.
>
>This might be handled by a "Community Development" person, but the scope of a 
>reengineering of the the underlying UNO Accessibility API suggests this will 
>need the administrative resources of a full committee of developers and AT 
>interface designers overseen by the TDF board.  
>
>The TDF board can't raise enough funds to pay to have this done, so the 
>challenge is making the case that the future of accessibility support for 
>LibreOffice does not lay with the status quo, that waiting for IAccessibile2 
>from the IBM Symphony contribution is only a Band-Aid, and that a substantive 
>redesign of the internal API implementing more AT roles while accommodating a 
>wider range of external interfaces better positions all LibreOffice products 
>as fully accessible.
>
>If the TDF is going to spend any money. Suggest pay to prepare statement of 
>preliminary requirements and AT design goals describing what currently exists, 
>while identifying what roles and functions are missing from the core UNO 
>Accessibility API for full support of the external accessibility APIs.  That 
>would be money well spent on AT and give the developers and GUI designers a 
>solid starting point.
>
>Stuart
>
>___
>From: Tom Davies [tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk]
>Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 201

Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Funding Priorities List update and need help

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
This is exactly why i think the Accessibility Team really needs a "Community 
Development" person to be employed either directly by TDF or by one of the 
supporter organisations and then loaned to TDF.  Part-time, even just 2 days a 
week would be a huge boost.  

We need more people in this team and need them to be more active.  At the 
moment it feels like it's only due to Stuart that anyone is doing anything and 
most of that work seems to be being done directly by him.  I think that if the 
post was created then it would be good to give Stuart an interview for the 
position.  
Regards from
Tom :)  





>
> From: Marc Paré 
>To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Saturday, 19 January 2013, 3:57
>Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Funding 
>Priorities List update and need help
> 
>Hi Tom,
>
>Le 2013-01-17 05:46, Tom Davies a écrit :
>> Hi :)
>> I wondered if anyone here is interested in putting forwards ideas for where 
>> money should be targeted to improve accessibility.  No-one on this list 
>> backed my ideas so i couldn't put them forwards.  Is everyone happy with 
>> accessibility in LibreOffice?  Is it all working perfectly all the time?
>> 
>> Regards from
>> Tom :)
>> 
>
>Be aware that Florian has stated that a funding suggestion needs to be backed 
>by someone who will assume leadership/responsibility for any request from 
>start to end. IMO, there should also be a clear accessibility team, which 
>could just be 2-3 people who make it a point to advance accessibility issues.
>
>For example, you could have accessibility bugs sent to this list and help QA 
>with bug quashing -- some of this is easy to do such as "confirming" that the 
>bugs do happen on other people's boxes and OS's OR helping test out possible 
>fixes to the bugs etc. We do this with the Website list and it has been quite 
>the success.
>
>Sometimes when people see positive movement in a group it will inspire others 
>to follow and to help out.
>
>As you know accessibility is quite important in getting LibreOffice accepted 
>in large institutional settings (educational/governments etc.). I am sure that 
>the TDF would be interested in getting proposals from the accessibility team 
>and helping out.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Marc
>
>
>-- Marc Paré
>m...@marcpare.com
>http://www.parEntreprise.com
>parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF)
>parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org
>
>
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[libreoffice-accessibility] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Funding Priorities List update and need help

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I wondered if anyone here is interested in putting forwards ideas for where 
money should be targeted to improve accessibility.  No-one on this list backed 
my ideas so i couldn't put them forwards.  Is everyone happy with accessibility 
in LibreOffice?  Is it all working perfectly all the time?  

Regards from
Tom :)  





>
> From: Marc Paré 
>To: market...@global.libreoffice.org 
>
>
>
>> I just realized that I forgot to include the link to the wiki page. Any
>> help with this would be appreciated!
>>
>> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Funding_Priorities
>>
>
>
>
>The funding requests are tabled on the steering-discuss list and I 
>believe only Charles suggestion to place ads on FB is on it. The others 
>do not have an approximate $$$ amount and were obviously not tabled.
>
>We need to work on the amounts so that we can work on marketing 
>projects. Help from anyone on this marketing list would be really 
>appreciated. 
>
>
>
>Now is the time to do it, the project has the money!
>
>Cheers,
>
>Marc
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] where's the accessibility?

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Would it be possible for someone to copy the code en-masse to make sure we get 
it all.  Then we can pick through what bits we can't keep later?
Regards from
Tom :)  





>
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton 
>To: 'Simon Eigeldinger' ; 
>accessibility@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Thursday, 20 December 2012, 18:46
>Subject: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] where's the accessibility?
> 
>Some Symphony code has been donated to Apache OpenOffice, including the 
>IAccessibility2 support.  The IP in the code needs to be cleaned up; the 
>current approach is to clean the license as it is integrated into AOO.  One of 
>the Symphony-experienced developers just set up a branch to do the 
>IAccessibility2 integration, which would then be available under Apache ALv2 
>license. 
>
>It is difficult to know how this work will advance to readiness for 
>integration into a release, although it might be available for cherry-picking 
>into LibreOffice before that.
>
>For anyone wanting to follow-along at home, the code branch is in the AOO SVN 
>at
><https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/branches/ia2/>.  I haven't paid 
>attention enough to know if any check-ins have happened yet.
>
>- Dennis
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Simon Eigeldinger [mailto:simon.eigeldin...@vol.at] 
>Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 10:06
>To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] where's the accessibility?
>
>hi,
>
>i just had time to check it out a little bit better.
>
>here are some examples:
>
>Using NVDA daily build Main 5723, java 7 update 9 with accessibility bridge:
>
>Writer:
>Start writer and then open the export as pdf dialog. you might be 
>figuring out that you can't navigate the dialog with the tab key. or 
>actually you can but the accessibility bridge seems not to know what to 
>do with that dialog at all.
>also when you wrote something and you exit you can't read the dialog 
>where it asks you if it should save the changes to the document.
>
>calc:
>start calc then enter some numbers for example in a1 you type 422 then 
>you down arrow to go to the next cell and enter 319 in a2. then you 
>arrow back up again to a1 and you might figure out that the screenreader 
>kind of gets interupted by saying something of toolbar and other stuff.
>
>
>there are also more things like it seems that the options dialog seems 
>not to be accessible sometimes.
>
>i read somewhere that IBM symphony has been discontinued and IBM might 
>donate some code to LibreOffice.
>Let's hope they also donate the accessibility code as well cause i heard 
>it works nicely with windows screenreaders.
>
>greetings,
>simon
>
>
>
>
>Am 11.12.2012 20:07, schrieb V Stuart Foote:
>> Simon,
>>
>> Good that you now have working Accessibility with LibreOffice Assistive
>> Technology tools.  But as you've now experienced for Windows users there are
>> warts between what is implemented in the UNO Accessibility API (UAA)  and
>> what is passed to Java Accessibility API (JAA) via the Java Access Bridge.
>>
>> Try to identify specifics of what you believe is not working.  Also,  work
>> against an example document that you can share with developers and QA
>> volunteers. Be specific as it would need to be reproducible and we'll need
>> to be able to isolate the accessibility component that is involved.  In a
>> sense build a test case, one that could be tested on Windows as well as on
>> Linux and OSX.
>>
>> Stuart
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
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>>
>
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[libreoffice-accessibility] Funding proposals

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Is there any chance of someone putting forwards a couple of funding proposals 
from the Accessibility List, perhaps as a Team effort?  I think less than 1 
line, just a sentence with a hopeful guess at how much cash might be needed.  A 
few different proposals with very different amounts might help.  If we had 
success with a smaller budget the larger items might happen later.  


I kinda see Stuart as a potential team leader as he seems to have done an 
excellent job at that in the past (although that was more by accident rather 
than being deliberate and i'm not sure he was keen on finding himself in that 
position).  

So far there have been 2 suggestions and i think either would cost a lot.  I 
can't remember the other one but mine was 

1.  to employ a part-time or full-time dev team leader or supervisor with part 
of her/his remit being to inspire people to volunteer and  join her/his team 
for working on code for Accessibility issues.  


1.  a)  Part of my suggestion was that another part of their job might be to 
decide on whether it's better to start again from scratch and write new code 
that doesn't depend on Java except perhaps to link to java tools used in 
whichever OS.  Such a rewrite would take ages before it could be brought into 
main branch or even as a working Extension so the existing tools would need to 
be maintained adequately (not hugely well but enough to work with) until that 
part was completed.  I'm not sure if it's even possible or if it's the way 
accessibility already works in LO.  So, i think leave that decision up to 
whoever TDF employed to lead the team (which doesn't really exist much yet).  
They might want to delay that decision or use it to help attract people to this 
part of the project.  Either way seems good to me.  

So, does anyone agree with me about putting forwards a proposal to employ a dev 
team-leader of some sort?  Can we have a vote on that?  Anyone else have other 
ideas we could put forwards?  Can anyone remember the other idea that was put 
forwards?  I vaguely remember it being good but then lost track of it! :(


Regards from
Tom :) 

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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest LibreOffice and Java access Bridge

[Tom Randall]

Sounds as though they are making progress which is a good thing.  I will try 
this latest one with Supernova in the next day or so and let you all know if 
it behaves the same way.


Best regards,

Tom

-Original Message- 
From: David Goldfield

Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 6:43 AM
To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest LibreOffice and Java access 
Bridge


Hello.
This is regarding Libreoffice 3.6.4 and its support for assistive 
technology.
I'm using a Windows 7 Pro 32-bit machine installing the latest version of 
Java from the Ninite installer; JAB is enabled via the control panel under 
Ease of Access.

My screen reader is NVDA 2012.3.
While installing this latest version I was careful to check the box for 
enabling support for assistive technology.
When I loaded Writer I received no feedback while navigating through menus. 
I know the keystrokes for enabling a.t. support in the Options dialog and I 
did this and then restarted Writer: this time I received a little more 
feedback.  This means that it is likely that a.t. support was in fact 
disabled even though I checked the appropriate box during installation.
I have checked with a sighted person who verifies that a.t. support is 
enabled in the options dialog.
While menus spoke and I can receive text feedback while moving through a 
document dialog boxes are usually silent except for standard dialogs such as 
the Open dialog.
As an example when I press alt-f4 I am prompted on whether I want to save 
changes to my open document.  when I press the tab key I hear nothing where 
I should hear the names of the buttons as they gain focus.
I also notice that when Writer opens I rarely receive feedback in the first 
document.  when I open subsequent documents some audio feedback is 
presented.  Can anyone verify these findings?



David Goldfield
Computer Technology Instructor
919 Walnut Street
4th Floor
Philadelphia, PA  19107

215-627-0600 ext 3277
FAX:  215-922-0692

dgold...@asb.org<mailto:dgold...@asb.org>
www.asb.org<http://www.asb.org/>

[cid:642253614@06122012-0D58]

Serving Philadelphia's and the nation's blind and visually impaired 
population since 1874.


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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice and VoiceOver

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Yes, but i think it costs.  More importantly it is still based on OpenOffice 
instead of LibreOffice and has only just reached 3.3.  Also it doesn't state 
which version of OpenOffice it is based on.  

Their downloads page is
http://www.neooffice.org/neojava/en/download.php#download
The 3.3 is the 3rd link on the page

Regards from
Tom :)  





>
> From: Alex Midence 
>To: 'Tom Davies' ; 
>accessibility@global.libreoffice.org; 'Patrick Adams'  
>Sent: Thursday, 29 November 2012, 18:45
>Subject: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: 
>LibreOffice and VoiceOver
> 
>Isn't there some port of open/libreoffice specifically designed for the Mac
>called Neo Office or something like that?  Might that work for him?
>
>Alex M
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Tom Davies [mailto:tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk] 
>Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 11:07 AM
>To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org; Patrick Adams
>Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice
>and VoiceOver
>
>Hi :)
>I am just forwarding this to the Accessibility List just in case anyone here
>knows something Alex doesn't.  Alex is usually very up-to-date but i can
>always hope that things are better on Mac.  
>
>Regards from 
>Tom :)  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> From: Alexander Thurgood 
>>To: us...@global.libreoffice.org 
>>Sent: Thursday, 29 November 2012, 16:38
>>Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice and VoiceOver
>> 
>>Le 29/11/12 16:21, Patrick Adams a écrit :
>>
>>Hi Patrick,
>>
>>>
>>> Please someone tell me this maybe a faulty installation and what I can do
>about that (yes I can download again but don't want to waste time if this
>lack of accessibility for VoiceOver is reality. Or perhaps there are some
>settings that need altering, I could not make any sense of the settings
>window, nothing worked and nothing led to anywhere.
>>> 
>>> Can anyone help?
>>
>>Sorry to disappoint you, but LibreOffice is not "fully accessible" on
>>the Mac. Your experience pretty much sums up the limited support for
>>people with disabilities on that platform attempting to use LibreOffice.
>>
>>In addition, using VoiceOver and other accessibility tools with
>>LibreOffice is known to cause random crashes. The reason is that the
>>accessibility calls rely on an obsolescent programming interface which
>>has since officially been declared deprecated by Apple, so until someone
>>within the project manages to convince a Mac developer to join and help
>>fix those issues, your problems will not be solved. There are or were
>>plans to integrate IBM's developments for Symphony of a newer
>>accessibility API into LibreOffice, but that has not happened for the
>>moment as far as I know, and yet we keep hearing about it every now and
>>then.
>>
>>
>>For the time being, your best bet is to stick to the application that
>>currently works best for you, but I sincerely doubt that that
>>application is LibreOffice.
>>
>>
>>
>>Alex
>>
>>
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[libreoffice-accessibility] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice and VoiceOver

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I am just forwarding this to the Accessibility List just in case anyone here 
knows something Alex doesn't.  Alex is usually very up-to-date but i can always 
hope that things are better on Mac.  

Regards from 
Tom :)  






>
> From: Alexander Thurgood 
>To: us...@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Thursday, 29 November 2012, 16:38
>Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice and VoiceOver
> 
>Le 29/11/12 16:21, Patrick Adams a écrit :
>
>Hi Patrick,
>
>>
>> Please someone tell me this maybe a faulty installation and what I can do 
>> about that (yes I can download again but don't want to waste time if this 
>> lack of accessibility for VoiceOver is reality. Or perhaps there are some 
>> settings that need altering, I could not make any sense of the settings 
>> window, nothing worked and nothing led to anywhere.
>> 
>> Can anyone help?
>
>Sorry to disappoint you, but LibreOffice is not "fully accessible" on
>the Mac. Your experience pretty much sums up the limited support for
>people with disabilities on that platform attempting to use LibreOffice.
>
>In addition, using VoiceOver and other accessibility tools with
>LibreOffice is known to cause random crashes. The reason is that the
>accessibility calls rely on an obsolescent programming interface which
>has since officially been declared deprecated by Apple, so until someone
>within the project manages to convince a Mac developer to join and help
>fix those issues, your problems will not be solved. There are or were
>plans to integrate IBM's developments for Symphony of a newer
>accessibility API into LibreOffice, but that has not happened for the
>moment as far as I know, and yet we keep hearing about it every now and
>then.
>
>
>For the time being, your best bet is to stick to the application that
>currently works best for you, but I sincerely doubt that that
>application is LibreOffice.
>
>
>
>Alex
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: Funding Wishlist

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I have no idea how to submit a funding request nor how to prepare one.  Also i 
have no idea how much a developer-coordinator/supervisor might cost.  Is there 
anyone on the list that might be able to get it together?  If not then i guess 
accessibility is just not going to get any investment.  
Regards from
Tom :)  





>
> From: Florian Effenberger 
>To: m...@marcpare.com 
>Cc: LibO Mailing List Accessibility  
>Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 14:41
>Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: Funding Wishlist
> 
>Hi Marc,
>
>Marc Paré wrote on 2012-11-20 16:48:
>> This may be more a question to Florian as well as the accessibility team.
>> 
>> As LibreOffice Accessibility is a barrier to the acceptance of
>> LibreOffice in many governmental/educational/institutional systems
>> worldwide, would it reasonable if there was a funding request for dev
>> outsourcing for a particular area of accessibility where code
>> development is lagging?
>
>I think, in general this is possible. It of course depends on the amount of 
>money this costs, but I wouldn't exclude it per se. :-) Same is true for 
>attending conferences - anyting that is to the good of the community and 
>foundation, it is fundable.
>
>Florian
>
>-- Florian Effenberger, Chairman of the Board (Vorstandsvorsitzender)
>Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108
>The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
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>
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: Funding Wishlist

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
The problem is that a major re-write is needed.  

If we point at little specific things that need changing then the list is 
long.  A re-write would probably take a lot less work.  Another problem with 
focussing on 1 or 2 specific issues is that the work has already been done in 
the IBM code so it's a bit dis-heartening and how carefully do people have to 
work at solving the same problems in a different way to avoid licensing issues 
but still using the Java programming language that the rest of the project is 
moving away from.  A third issue is even if the work does get done for 1 or 2 
little things then that still leaves the whole thing in much the same mess that 
it's already in.  

Regards from
Tom :)  





>
> From: Marc Paré 
>To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Thursday, 22 November 2012, 15:09
>Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: Funding Wishlist
> 
>Le 2012-11-22 06:30, Tom Davies a écrit :
>> Hi :)
>> +1
>> 
>> I like the sound of ...
>> "It is sometimes good to meet as a team with 3rd party software
>> providers to see what kind of progress or what type of cooperative
>> development could take place."
>> 
>> Could TDF buy dev time from RedHat or SUSE or Canonical or another supporter 
>> of TDF or at least someone that  does understand OpenSource and is able to 
>> work alongside volunteers and inspire them and perhaps build-up a team.
>> 
>> 
>> So, what i would like to see is a person working at a slightly higher level 
>> than a dev but focussing on developing a team to work on accessibility 
>> issues.  Perhaps only part-time but with a job title such as
>> 
>> "Community Development Officer" (for Accessibility) or
>> "Development Co-ordinator" or
>> "Development Lead"
>> 
>> Waiting for a volunteer to happen to take interest has got nowhere is 2 
>> years although a few people have put in a lot of hard-work and done some 
>> great things (most recently Stuart but there have been others).
>> 
>> Regards from
>> Tom :)
>> 
>
>Doesn't hurt to ask. IMO, if there were a particular function that you wanted 
>to hire a coder in order to complete, this would probably be accepted quicker 
>rather than just getting someone to work on the accessibility issues in 
>general, But, it would not hurt to submit 2 items such at these.
>
>IMO, I would try to raise the accessibility profile with more specific 
>accessibility meetings and encourage 3rd party participation. For example, 
>Dragon Speaking devs may be interested in helping out making their suite 
>compatible to LibreOffice if some of our devs were to help out.
>
>But whatever the accessibility team decides to submit. Remember Florian's 
>suggestion that the requests "should be reasonable."
>
>BTW ... the following teams are now actively working on wishlist items: 
>website-infrastructure; developers; marketing;
>
>Cheers,
>
>Marc
>
>
>-- Marc Paré
>m...@marcpare.com
>http://www.parEntreprise.com
>parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF)
>parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: Funding Wishlist

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
+1

I like the sound of ... 
"It is sometimes good to meet as a team with 3rd party software 
providers to see what kind of progress or what type of cooperative 
development could take place."

Could TDF buy dev time from RedHat or SUSE or Canonical or another supporter of 
TDF or at least someone that  does understand OpenSource and is able to work 
alongside volunteers and inspire them and perhaps build-up a team.  


So, what i would like to see is a person working at a slightly higher level 
than a dev but focussing on developing a team to work on accessibility issues.  
Perhaps only part-time but with a job title such as 

"Community Development Officer" (for Accessibility) or
"Development Co-ordinator" or
"Development Lead" 

Waiting for a volunteer to happen to take interest has got nowhere is 2 years 
although a few people have put in a lot of hard-work and done some great things 
(most recently Stuart but there have been others).  

Regards from
Tom :)  





>
> From: Marc Paré 
>To: LibO Mailing List Accessibility ; 
>Florian Effenberger  
>Sent: Tuesday, 20 November 2012, 15:48
>Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: Funding Wishlist
> 
>This may be more a question to Florian as well as the accessibility team.
>
>As LibreOffice Accessibility is a barrier to the acceptance of LibreOffice in 
>many governmental/educational/institutional systems worldwide, would it 
>reasonable if there was a funding request for dev outsourcing for a particular 
>area of accessibility where code development is lagging?
>
>To the accessibility team, if there was funding available for such a thing, 
>what would your items be and in order of preference. I know in my local school 
>boards Dragon Speaking is a requirement, that is, unless there is an 
>equivalent replacement.
>
>What items would you suggest?
>
>===
>
>Another funding wishlist item could be that the TDF/LibreOffice help fund an 
>Accessibility conference where some of the leading members of the 
>accessibility team along with other interested partners could meet to try to 
>solve bottlenecks in development for LibreOffice.
>
>It is sometimes good to meet as a team with 3rd party software providers to 
>see what kind of progress or what type of cooperative development could take 
>place.
>
>===
>
>Would there be any other items that you could think of to put on your wishlist?
>
>Cheers,
>
>Marc
>
>
>-- Marc Paré
>m...@marcpare.com
>http://www.parEntreprise.com
>parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF)
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: Funding Wishlist

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)  

+1
Accessibility is important.  Unfortunately in LO it seems to heavily and 
thoroughly depend on Java which the entire rest of the project is trying to 
break free from.  


Apparently under Apache their version of OpenOffice is going to acquire all the 
accessibility stuff from IBM.  AOO's version 4.0 (due out around February?) is 
apparently going to incorporate all that in a new UI.  I'm not convinced they 
will actually manage it or even that  the rumour is true.  

A side issue is that Impress seems to attract far less devs-time and doesn't 
seem to be as excellent as Writer, Calc or Draw.  However i tend to feel the 
same about PowerPoint too.  PP seems to have more functionality but it's a Pita 
to use and not just because of the usual MS issues.  There are a lot of 
independent programs that do a far better job of producing and running 
slide-shows.  I keep losing the lists that people give me but even your package 
manager might give some good ideas.  
Regards from
Tom :)  





>
> From: Alex Midence 
>To: 'Christophe Strobbe' ; m...@marcpare.com; 'LibO 
>Mailing List Accessibility' ; 'Florian 
>Effenberger'  
>Sent: Tuesday, 20 November 2012, 17:40
>Subject: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: Funding Wishlist
> 
>Hi,
>One area that I'd like addressed is Impress accessibility in Linux.  The 
>authoring and presenting experience is far behind that which can be had using 
>MS tools on Windows with a screen reader.  I am a professional trainer and use 
>presentation software every day.  If my company were to move away from 
>Microsoft and embrace either Libre or Open Office, it would be a disaster for 
>me as I rely heavily on Powerpoint to do my job.  
>
>I'd certainly like for all the
 accessibility stuff to be fixed in Windows but others have mentioned it so, I 
thought I'd bring up something far more close to home for me.  
>
>Thanks.
>Alex
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Christophe Strobbe [mailto:stro...@hdm-stuttgart.de] 
>Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 10:39 AM
>To: m...@marcpare.com; LibO Mailing List Accessibility; Florian Effenberger
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: Funding Wishlist
>
>Hi,
>
>
>(I was away from this list for a while because I moved to a different employer 
>and a different country earlier this year.)
>
>
>Am Di, 20.11.2012, 16:48 schrieb Marc Paré:
>> (...)
>> To the accessibility team, if there was funding available for such a 
>> thing, what would your items be and in order of
 preference. I know in 
>> my local school boards Dragon Speaking is a requirement, that is, 
>> unless there is an equivalent replacement.
>>
>
>That's an interesting question, since I prepared a presentation on LibreOffice 
>accessibility for FOSDEM 2012 but I had to cancel it (force majeure, 
>basically).
>
>The issues can be divided into two categories:
>1. The accessibility of LibreOffice itself. The most important blocker is the 
>missing implementation of IAccessible2 (the Java Accessibility API is not 
>sufficiently supported on Windows). There are also a few issues on Gnome. (My 
>presentation for FOSDEM contained bug IDs etc.) 2. Features that allow you to 
>create accessible content - not only accessible ODF documents, but also 
>formats that you can "save as" or export, e.g. HTML and PDF.  (Again, my 
>presentation for FOSDEM contained bug IDs etc.)
>
>I would say that the IAccessible2 issue is the biggest one. It's been a
 while since I was involved in discussions about this, but the LibreOffice 
developers were basically waiting for the IAccessible2 implementation in 
OpenOffice.org, which they would then borrow. (In order to avoid duplication of 
efforts.)
>
>I'm sure other list members will chime in with comments.
>
>
>
>>
>> Another funding wishlist item could be that the TDF/LibreOffice help 
>> fund an Accessibility conference where some of the leading members of 
>> the accessibility team along with other interested partners could meet 
>> to try to solve bottlenecks in development for LibreOffice.
>
>Not sure if it necessary to fund a conference. Do you mean travel costs?
>The LibreOffice conferences should be good opportunities, but my experience in 
>Paris last year was that it is difficult to get developers to attend an 
>accessibility presentation when there are technical tracks running in parallel.
>
>
>>
>> It
 is sometimes good to meet as a team with 3rd party software 
>> providers to see what kind of progress or what type of cooperative 
>> development could take place.
>
>This reminds me of earlier work to enable OOo support 

[libreoffice-accessibility] Sophie's blog Fw: [libreoffice-marketing] Sophie's blog article on LibreOffice Marketing contributors

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
There have been a number of interesting articles about LibreOffice recently.  I 
keep meaning to pass a list of the links on to the Users List and perhaps 
relevant ones in a list to other mailing lists too.  


Sophie's blog is interesting because she was one of the original founders.  
Marc also updates the events calendar.  
1.    If you find there is an event locally then please do drop in and meet 
people from TDF and other LibreOffice users.  Make yourself known.  Perhaps 
grab some swag, perhaps help out for half an hour or so.  
2.    If your work sends you to an event that might have a TDF and LO presence 
then you can check the calendar and you'd be welcomed at the TDF, LO stall.  
3.    If you hear of an event that you think should be on the calendar 
then state your case to the marketing list and let them know how much 
help you could give.  There is talk of having a "go bag" of marketing 
materials (perhaps including a roller-banner) that could be mailed to a 
local-users group for such events.  
4.    If you fancy making a special effort to travel to one of the events then 
it would be smart to join the marketing list for a bit and perhaps see if 
others are going from your area or what arrangements other people have made 
(especially if you need to stay overnight.  For one event an excellent cafe 
allowed people to use their premises overnight so doubtless nearly everyone 
woke up to wonderful smells and fantastic coffee.  At other events it might 
have been possible to get a group discount at a hotel, perhaps making all the 
rooms on one floor into conference quarters).  

Regards from
Tom :)  




- Forwarded Message -
>From: Marc Paré 
>To: market...@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Saturday, 10 November 2012, 10:24
>Subject: [libreoffice-marketing] Sophie's blog article on LibreOffice 
>Marketing contributors
> 
>So, you are on the marketing list, either contributing with discussions on 
>marketing; either on the sidelines, just curious to see what we do; on the 
>sidelines not knowing what to do or how to do it ...
>
>Have a read of Sophie's blog article on marketing. This may clear up some 
>aspects of our marketing team's job.[1]
>
>If you see somewhere you can help out, even if it is just for one little 
>request for help or even helping out with larger time-consuming requests ... 
>any help is appreciated. Even better if you think you can help representing 
>LibreOffice at conferences; check out our international events calendar and 
>you may find an upcoming conference happening near you.[2]
>
>Have a read of the blog article. It is really worth it!
>
>Cheers,
>
>Marc
>
>[1] 
>http://sophiegautier.com/blog/index.php/2012/11/08/181-are-you-a-contributor-part-4-marketing
>[2] 
>http://www.libreoffice.org/about-us/libreoffice-international-events-calendar/
>
>
>-- Marc Paré
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Reality Check - Windows Java Accessibility API non-functional for ALL LibreOffice 3.6.x releases to date

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Good work Stuart!  Again!  :)  
Many thanks and regards from
Tom :)  





>
> From: V Stuart Foote 
>To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Thursday, 25 October 2012, 16:51
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Reality Check - Windows Java 
>Accessibility API non-functional for ALL LibreOffice 3.6.x releases to date
> 
>Developers identified a major component of the Java Accessibility - JAB code
>that got dropped during restructuring of source build process.  A patch for 
>fdo#53474 <https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53474>   is being
>tested and will for certain be included the 3.6.4 release. 
>
>I have asked that it be back ported into the LibO 3.6.3 build with creation
>of an additional release candidate rc3 build. Don't know yet if that will
>take as it could break the Oct 29 - Nov 4  release target.
>
>Meanwhile, the LibO 3.5.7 build should be fully functional (as far as Java
>Accessibility & JAB role mappings allow) for users in need of Assistive
>Technology.
>
>Stuart
>
>
>
>--
>View this message in context: 
>http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-accessibility-Latest-Libo-Won-t-Play-Nice-with-my-JRE-tp4011307p4015337.html
>Sent from the Accessibility mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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>
>
>
>
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[libreoffice-accessibility] Re: [libreoffice-users] Survey about newcomer experience - Thank you + reminder

[Tom Davies]

>
> From: kevouze 
>To: us...@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Thursday, 25 October 2012, 21:04
>Subject: [libreoffice-users] Survey about newcomer experience - Thank you + 
>reminder
> 
>Thank you!
>Thank you to all who took part in the survey. Your contribution has been
>greatly appreciated and will help understand better the experience of
>newcomers in the LibO community. Everybody has been hugely supportive.
>
>You can still participate If you have not filled in the survey yet, there is
>still time to participate. The survey will be live until October 29. 
>
>Here is the direct  link
>  .
>
>The conditions to participate are simply to be contributing to LibO and to
>have joined LibO within the last 2 years (and you were not part of OO
>before).
>
>Thanks again for all!
>
>Kevin
>
>ps: I you want to know more about the details of the project, there is a lot
>of information on my  blog   .
>
>
>
>
>
>-
>Kevin Carillo
>
>School of Information Management
>Victoria University of Wellington
>PO Box 600, Wellington NEW ZEALAND
>(04) 463 5233 ext. 8679 | Room RH401
>kevin.cari...@sim.vuw.ac.nz
>http://kevincarillo.org
>--
>View this message in context: 
>http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Survey-about-newcomer-experience-Thank-you-reminder-tp4015371.html
>Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>-- 
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>
>
>
>
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[libreoffice-accessibility] Re: [libreoffice-users] RE: Survey about newcomer experience for LibreOffice project contributors

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Most studies about desktop users are funded  by MS.  It's pretty rare to see 
one that mentions OpenSource at all.  Mysteriously, the ones that get published 
tend to favour MS, so it's really quite amazing to find one that might be 
independent and might even discover some truths.  So, I think anyone that can 
take the survey might well be helping both us and the people doing the survey.  

https://limesurvey.sim.vuw.ac.nz/index.php?sid=14153%E2%8C%A9=en

It doesn't take long to complete the survey and it can be done in chunks quite 
easily.  I think we should support it so i am forwarding it to another couple 
of lists.  It's interesting that their definition of 'newcomer' (they mean 
someone in LO around 2 years or less) covers just about everyone using LO.  I 
wasn't in OpenOffice.org but i get the impression that there are significant 
differences in infrastructure, attitudes and approach.  Also their definition 
of "member" is a lot more open than TDF's so if 
you are not officially a member then you can probably still fill it in.  

Regards from
Tom Davies  





- Forwarded Message -
>From: kevouze 
>To: us...@global.libreoffice.org
>Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012, 0:48
>Subject: [libreoffice-users] RE: Survey about newcomer experience for 
>LibreOffice project contributors
>
>Thanks, Tom.
>I have used LimeSurvey to design the survey and it is indeed under a GPL 
>license. For those who want to save the survey and carry on some time later, 
>you just have to click on the ‘Resume later’ button and you will get a popup 
>asking you to enter your email address (don’t worry, I am not saving the email 
>addresses, it is all happening within LimeSurvey and I have no control). You 
>will then be sent an email giving you a link which when clicked will take you 
>exactly where you had left the survey.
>
>I thought it was some convenient feature for those who are pretty  busy and 
>cannot dedicate 20 minutes in one go.
>
>Please everyone, do not hesitate to give me any feedback about survey. 
>Feedback is always good!
>
>Kevin
>
>From: Tom Davies 
>Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012 12:39 p.m.
>To: Kevin Carillo
>Subject: RE: Survey about newcomer experience for LibreOffice project 
>contributors
>
>Hi :)
>The survey software is apparently released under a GPL licence and you can 
>save the survey at any point and then carry on later.  It doesn't need to take 
>much time although i can imagine a few people agonising over non-Yes/No 
>questions.  It's multiple choice so just whizz through and then maybe glance 
>over the page and make corrections
>
>It seems like a good thing to do but it's a free choice
>Regards from
>Tom :)
>
>
>--- On Wed, 17/10/12, Kevin Carillo <[hidden email]>
>Date: Wednesday, 17 October, 2012, 22:11
>
>Thanks for those who have already taken part in the survey.
>
>It has been brought to my attention that several questions refer to the notion 
>of membership within the LibreOffice community. By membership I am not asking 
>about TDF membership, instead I am referring to the point when you began 
>contributing to the LibreOffice software project (developing, reporting bugs, 
>writing documentation, etc...). TDF members however fully qualify for taking 
>part in the survey. It will be interesting to compare both types of newcomer 
>experience.
>
>However, regular users are not included. I am definitely not saying that 
>LibreOffice users are not important for the community (since LibO would not 
>exist without its users) but simply that the survey targets the experience of 
>new contributors when joining the LibO project. It encompasses the tasks they 
>had to undertake to learn how to contribute as well as the interactions with 
>other community members while learning about how to contribute to the software 
>project.
>
>Potential survey participants shall have joined the LibO community within the 
>last 2 years. LibO celebrated its 2-year birthday recently, and you may argue 
>that everyone in LibO then joined within the last 2 years. The survey applies 
>to people who joined the LibO community since it was created but who were not 
>previously involved in the OpenOffice project.
>
>The survey description has been updated to clarify both aspects.
>
>For those who are at the LibO conference right now, have fun!
>
>Kevin (kevouze on irc)
>
>
>From: Tom Davies 
>Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012 5:21 a.m.
>To: Joel Madero
>Cc: Kevin Carillo; 
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Survey about newcomer experience for 
>LibreOffice project contributors
>
>Hi :)
>Hmmm, i still haven't looked but would be very disappointed if it really is 
>only official membe

Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Reality Check - Windows Java Accessibility API non-functional for ALL LibreOffice 3.6.x releases to date

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
+1
A huge +1 really.  Just +1 doesn't really get close!  Definitely impressive 
work from Stuart there!  "Above and beyond" gets closer.  

I tried voting but found that really unclear, and i have been editing wiki's 
for a while now.  I was able to add a comment in support but i'm not sure if 
it's the type of thing they are looking for.  

Stuart also gave links to the relevant bug-reports and i have a feeling it 
might be easier to post comments there but only if they help the devs get 
closer to fixing the problems, such as version number of LO you are using and 
which OS (Windows Xp, Ubuntu or whatever)

I think the wiki wanted more conversational type comments but i wasn't sure 
what i should say.  
Regards from
Tom :)  



--- On Mon, 15/10/12, Kevin Cussick  
wrote:

From: Kevin Cussick 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Reality Check - Windows Java 
Accessibility API non-functional for ALL LibreOffice 3.6.x releases to date
To: "V Stuart Foote" 
Cc: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org, libreoff...@lists.freedesktop.org, 
us...@glogal.libreoffice.org
Date: Monday, 15 October, 2012, 20:04

Hello,

No apology needed Stuart. You have done more than most and i would like 
to take this opportunity to thank you on list.

I knew the LO was not right but I now am pleased that someone from LO is 
now agreeing with me. Anyway. moving on, I will take a look at the link to 
vote on the ticket to get accessibleIa2 added into the code for LO.  Let 
me once again thank you for all your effort and hard work on this. OK we 
don't have the result we would like but now we know we can maybe try and 
get a fix for it.

On 15/10/2012 01:10, V Stuart Foote wrote:
> LibreOffice versions 3.6.0 and later have not correctly implemented the Java 
> Access Bridge (JAB) modules used to expose the Java Accessibility API roles 
> for Windows users.
>
> It took me a little while to work out the testing methods, but the Oracle 
> test utilities JavaFerret-32 and JavaMonkey-32 show that LibreOffice is not 
> implementing the Java Accessibility API and therefore does not expose 
> accessibility roles to Assistive Technologies.
>
> Neither JAB v.2.0.2 or v 2.0.3, nor current JRE version 1.6u35 or 1.7u7 will 
> make a difference.
>
> I tested LibreOffice builds 3.6.0.4, 3.6.1.2, 3.6.2.2, and 3.6.3.1 none of 
> which are functional.
>
> In addition today I completed testing of ALL builds of LibreOffice from 3.4.5 
> to 3.5.7rc2.  With exception of the 3.5.0 build they all correctly map Java 
> Accessibility API roles to UNO Accessibility roles.
>
> The Java Accessibility API is not as comprehensive as the IAccessible2 role 
> mappings provided by IBM Lotus Symphony 3.0.1, but it is functional for the 
> 3.4 and 3.5 releases of LibreOffice.  And, for these versions Windows  
> Assistive Technologies will work. For example, the Windows NVDA screen reader 
> will function with cursor control and component announcements for the entire 
> document tree.
>
> Windows versions of LibreOffice 3.6, including the current build 3.6.3 rc1, 
> are NOT USEABLE with Assistive Technologies and they have not been usable 
> with Windows Assistive Technologies at any point.
>
> For folks that I've mislead with my insistence that all is well with 
> LibreOffice 3.6 and Java Access Bridge and JRE with use of Assistive 
> Technologies like NVDA screen reader I was wrong--I apologize.
> I've updated the FDO#53474 (http:  bug report 
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53474 ) and would encourage 
> folks to vote, i.e. comment on, the enhancement to implement IAccessible2 
> API  ( http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Vote_for_Enhancement ) for Windows 
> builds by incorporating the IBM contributed Symphony code base as a 
> replacement of the Java Accessibility API as that is probably the fastest 
> means of bringing Windows builds of LibreOffice to the same functional level 
> as Linux builds that use the ATK AT-SPI accessibility APIs.
>
> Stuart
>


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Extension or script? Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with myJRE

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I think that is a brilliant idea!  The great thing about hindsight is that 
things seem so obvious afterwards.  


Can you post a bug-report and make it into a feature request?  One of the 
drop-down menus is supposed to have "feature request" as one of the choices but 
it might be easier to just add
[feature request]

into the subject-line.  Someone on the User List said they couldn't find the 
option in any of the drop-downs and wanted me to post a screen-shot showing it 
but i'm no good at posting bug-reports and find their whole interface really 
difficult to work out.  So, i just advised putting the extra bit in the 
subject-line and let the devs sort the drop-downs.  I feel a bit bad and guilty 
because i know they are busy!

Regards from
Tom :)  






>
> From: Kevin Cussick 
>To: Tom Davies  
>Sent: Thursday, 11 October 2012, 19:00
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with myJRE
> 
>Yes Stewart thanks for your hard work I did all you asked I still have 
>no access. It would maybe a nice idea if someone could write a batch 
>file that could sort out the java environment, and or maybe even if lo 
>cam with jre7 it would make it a rather large download but if it cam 
>with it maybe it could just install it all and just bloody work. what do 
>folks think? is this to daft this idea I am not a programer so I am just 
>putting the question out there again thanks for your work on this but it 
>didn't work for me.
>
>On 11/10/2012 18:09, Tom Davies wrote:
>> Hi :)
>> Blimey!!  Thanks for putting a lot of work into this!  It's amazing to feel 
>> that things are moving forwards after such a long time of what felt like 
>> inactivity.  I'm sure some devs have been working on things behind the 
>> scenes but we seldom hear about that side of things on this list.
>>
>> Many regards and thanks from
>> Tom :)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> 
>>> From: V Stuart Foote 
>>> To: David Goldfield ; 
>>> accessibility@global.libreoffice.org; libreoff...@lists.freedesktop.org
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 9 October 2012, 16:25
>>> Subject: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with 
>>> myJRE
>>>
>>> David,
>>>
>>> I spent yesterday working through some of the permutations.
>>>
>>> I resolved a couple of my own questions.  First, that  Python based NVDA 
>>> functions independent of the Java Runtime Environment - Java Access Bridge.
>>>
>>> NVDA does require the JRE and Java Access Bridge to properly control 
>>> programs that are implemented with the Java Access Bridge API, 
>>> unfortunately that includes LibreOffice.
>>>
>>> But NVDA will remain functional with the JRE & JAB removed. NVDA only needs 
>>> to be momentarily shut down when uninstalling the JAB & JRE and can be 
>>> restarted as the uninstall completes.
>>>
>>> =-=-=
>>>
>>> Another issue, per-user LibreOffice profile from past installation attempts 
>>> or prior versions must be removed.
>>>
>>> Uninstallation of LibreOffice leaves the per-user configuration files 
>>> intact.
>>>
>>> This is intentional from the LibreOffice developers perspective--but it 
>>> adversely affects installation or re-installation of LibreOffice with 
>>> accessibility tools and needs to be rebuilt cleanly.
>>>
>>> The per-user configuration is located at:
>>>
>>> C:\Users\\AppData\Roaming\LibreOffice
>>>
>>> Simply delete the LibreOffice folder and subfolders. And proceed with 
>>> removal and reinstallation of the JRE, enabling the JAB, and lastly 
>>> installing LibreOffice with AT enabled.
>>>
>>> =-=-=
>>>
>>> Finally, I am curious as to how incomplete the Flat Review LibreOffice JAB 
>>> based Assistive Technology tools are compared to the Windows IAccessible2 
>>> based tools, or Linux AT-SPI based, or even the Apple Accessibility API 
>>> based renderings.
>>>
>>> Since IBM continues to develop and distribute the Lotus Symphony suite, 
>>> current release is 3.0.1 and is free to download and  use.
>>>
>>> http://symphony.lotus.com/software/lotus/symphony/home.nsf/home/ 
>>> <http://symphony.lotus.com/software/lotus/symphony/home.nsf/home/>
>>>
>>> I grabbed a set of Windows installers (32-bit), and the FixPack1 for 3.0.1 
>>> from
>>>
>>> http://w

Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with myJRE

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Blimey!!  Thanks for putting a lot of work into this!  It's amazing to feel 
that things are moving forwards after such a long time of what felt like 
inactivity.  I'm sure some devs have been working on things behind the scenes 
but we seldom hear about that side of things on this list.  

Many regards and thanks from
Tom :)  






>
> From: V Stuart Foote 
>To: David Goldfield ; accessibility@global.libreoffice.org; 
>libreoff...@lists.freedesktop.org 
>Sent: Tuesday, 9 October 2012, 16:25
>Subject: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with myJRE
> 
>David,
>
>I spent yesterday working through some of the permutations.
>
>I resolved a couple of my own questions.  First, that  Python based NVDA 
>functions independent of the Java Runtime Environment - Java Access Bridge. 
>
>NVDA does require the JRE and Java Access Bridge to properly control programs 
>that are implemented with the Java Access Bridge API, unfortunately that 
>includes LibreOffice. 
>
>But NVDA will remain functional with the JRE & JAB removed. NVDA only needs to 
>be momentarily shut down when uninstalling the JAB & JRE and can be restarted 
>as the uninstall completes.
>
>=-=-=
>
>Another issue, per-user LibreOffice profile from past installation attempts or 
>prior versions must be removed.  
>
>Uninstallation of LibreOffice leaves the per-user configuration files intact. 
>
>This is intentional from the LibreOffice developers perspective--but it 
>adversely affects installation or re-installation of LibreOffice with 
>accessibility tools and needs to be rebuilt cleanly.
>
>The per-user configuration is located at:
>
>C:\Users\\AppData\Roaming\LibreOffice
>
>Simply delete the LibreOffice folder and subfolders. And proceed with removal 
>and reinstallation of the JRE, enabling the JAB, and lastly installing 
>LibreOffice with AT enabled.
>
>=-=-=
>
>Finally, I am curious as to how incomplete the Flat Review LibreOffice JAB 
>based Assistive Technology tools are compared to the Windows IAccessible2 
>based tools, or Linux AT-SPI based, or even the Apple Accessibility API based 
>renderings.
>
>Since IBM continues to develop and distribute the Lotus Symphony suite, 
>current release is 3.0.1 and is free to download and  use.
>
>http://symphony.lotus.com/software/lotus/symphony/home.nsf/home/ 
><http://symphony.lotus.com/software/lotus/symphony/home.nsf/home/>  
>
>I grabbed a set of Windows installers (32-bit), and the FixPack1 for 3.0.1 from
>
>http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/downloads/ls/symphony/ 
><http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/downloads/ls/symphony/> 
>
>In a side by side comparison using NVDA and the same .odt document -- the 
>IAccessible2 based Symphony clearly accessed more of the MSAA-IAccessible 
>roles than did the Java Access Bridge based LibreOffice.  Cursor navigation, 
>and object based mode functioned--as did reporting of font changes, style and 
>header levels and voicing of program annotations like spelling errors. Clearly 
>under NVDA Symphony Document is more useable as an editor. Similar results in 
>the Spreadsheet compared to Calc.
>
>=-=-=
>
>I'm going to press on and do the same comparison between a Linux Orca session 
>of LibreOffice's  AT-SPI based interface, and Symphony (in both Windows and 
>Linux versions)--but suspect it will simply confirm there are serious 
>shortcomings to the Java Access Bridge -- UNO a11y  role mappings in 
>LibreOffice on the Windows side. 
>
>I can't say if this has been the state since inception, or is a recent change 
>but will have a little better feel of what roles are working in Linux  with 
>ATK side versus in Windows with JAB and may then be able to rationally present 
>the case of regression or needed enhancement to the developers. There is an 
>open metabug on the Linux AT-SPI ATK AT-SPI2 side for Orca  , maybe we need 
>something similar on the Windows JAB side.( 
>https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_activity.cgi?id=36549 )
>
>=-=-=
>
>In the interim, until the Java Access Bridge based Windows functions are 
>corrected--or until LibreOffice moves fully to and UNO a11y role -  
>IAccessible2  role mapping under the IBM Symphony contribution--you may want 
>to look at using the free IBM Symphony 3.0.1--of course that leaves you 
>without Draw, Base or an Equation editor.
>
>Stuart
>
>p.s.  CC'd to the Dev list--looking to contact whomever has the best grasp of 
>the JRE Java Access Bridge based Assistive Technologies used on the Windows 
>side mappings of the UNO a11y  roles.  Difficult to tell what is not working 
>as intended, versus what has never been implemented, v

Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my JRE

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Is there something 'obvious'?  Is your other screen-reader also java-based?  Do 
you have other java stuff on your machine?  Any previous versions of java 
lurking around?  


If we can update the 

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq/Java
to expand it to possibly deal with Kevin's and your situations then that would 
be fantastic.  I think people are reading the page and finding it helpful.  
Each time i go there it's had another 30-40 hits.  If it works for most people 
but is not quite right for a few then that's fine but it would be even better 
if you could help get the page working for more people.  


Err, it has taken me all day to write this so if Stuart has given better advice 
earlier please ignore this email.  I keep getting distracted, sorry.  

Apols and regards from
Tom :) 





>
> From: David Goldfield 
>To: V Stuart Foote  
>Cc: "accessibility@global.libreoffice.org" 
> 
>Sent: Tuesday, 9 October 2012, 14:15
>Subject: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my 
>JRE
> 
>Hello.
>I uninstalled the components in the order in which you suggested.  Using 
>another installed screen reader I reinstalled all software in the order 
>suggested and ensured that the a.t. support checkbox was checked when 
>installing Libreoffice 3.6.  I also enabled JAB via the control panel under 
>accessibility settings but I still find that I have no access with LO 3.6 and 
>NVDA 2012.2.1.
>David 
>
>
>David Goldfield
>Computer Technology Instructor
>919 Walnut Street
>4th Floor
>Philadelphia, PA  19107
>
>215-627-0600 ext 3277
>FAX:  215-922-0692
>
>mailto:dgold...@asb.org 
>http://www.asb.org
>
>
>Serving Philadelphia's and the nation's blind and visually impaired population 
>since 1874.
>
> 
>-Original Message-
>From: V Stuart Foote [mailto:vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu] 
>Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 9:05 PM
>To: Kevin Cussick; accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
>Subject: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my 
>JRE
>
>Kevin,
>
>Golly. I hate to keep harping on this.  And I know it must seem like we are 
>asking you to jump through hoops.
>
>But as Tom notes the effort is to clear it everything off and start clean from 
>a known state. In your latest attempt you've ended up non-functional.
>
>To have a correct outcome, the install order IS important. LibreOffice gets 
>install LAST.
>
>Remove in this order:  
>
>  1.   LibreOffice 
>   2.  NVDA 
>   3.  Java Access Bridge 
>   4.  Java Runtime Environment
>
>Install in this order
>
>    1. Java Runtime Environment
>    2. Java Access Bridge
>    3. NVDA
>    4. LibreOffice
>
>But note this:  with JRE 1.7u7, the Java Access Bridge v2.0.3 is installed 
>automatically and just needs to be enabled with a "jabswitch.exe /enable" 
>command.   Only for JRE 1.6 do you still need to use the JWin utility to 
>install and configure Java Access Bridge v2.0.2.  
>
>In other words you should no longer use the JWin program with JRE 1.7 greater 
>than update 6. Rather, simply enable the built in Java Access Bridge and then 
>install NVDA and finally LibreOffice.
>
>Also, during LibreOffice 3.6 installation, on the last page of Installation 
>Wizard configuration "Ready to Install the Program" there will be two check 
>boxes 1) "Create a start link on desktop", and 2) "Support assistive 
>technology tools"  Check that box and then select the Install button.
>
>The assistive technology checkbox is off by default--and must be checked to 
>enable assistive technology in LibreOffice without navigating the Tools -> 
>Options -> Accessibility and Tools -> Options Java menus.  
>
>Without the Accessibility "Support assistive technology tools" checked, NVDA 
>will read the outside frame elements of LibreOffice-but will not be able to 
>read or navigate text within the components.
>
>Stuart
>
>
>
>
>From: Kevin Cussick [mailto:the.big.white.sheph...@googlemail.com]
>Sent: Sun 10/7/2012 5:47 PM
>To: Tom Davies
>Cc: V Stuart Foote; Kevin Cussick; accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my 
>JRE
>
>
>
>Hello,
>
>OK I uninstalled Lo, uninstalled the java7 TM update I think it was installed 
>nvda I can't see anything that relates to access bridge, because the java7 
>just downloads it with window's anyway. rebooted the PC installed lo, 
>installed the downloaded java.exe 32 bit it is version 7,rebooted the PC but 
>bef

Re: Nvda list, was: Fw: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my JRE

[Tom Davies]

Hi :(
Sorry to hear it wouldn't work :(  Thanks for trying it twice through :)  You 
say you do have an alternative to LO already working on your machine?  If so 
then definitely stick with that but lets hope you can return to LO sometime 
when various issues have been resolved! :)
Many thanks, apols and regards from
Tom :)  


--- On Mon, 8/10/12, Kevin Cussick  
wrote:

From: Kevin Cussick 
Subject: Re: Nvda list, was: Fw: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo 
Won't Play Nice with my JRE
To: "Tom Davies" 
Cc: "Kevin Cussick" , 
accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Monday, 8 October, 2012, 13:56

Hello,

I think I just sent the last e-mail only to you. sorry. anyway in spite 
of me doing every thing I have been asked to do and in the order as well 
lo still dose not work I am now giving up on this enough is enough.

On 08/10/2012 13:51, Tom Davies wrote:
> Hi :)
> Thanks! :)  I added the link to the end of the wiki-page
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Accessibility
> and the new section appeared in the T.o.C.!  I put a link to the
> java-bridge page in the intro.  Feel free to edit of course.
>
> Finally added a section to the wiki's home-page
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Main_Page
> You might want to edit that one but i thought it might be good to try to
> encourage people to try out the accessibility features even if they
> don't really need them for themselves yet.  More people using them might
> boost the amount of people working on the problems, maybe?
>
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
> --- On *Mon, 8/10/12, Kevin Cussick
> //* wrote:
>
>
>     From: Kevin Cussick 
>     Subject: Re: Nvda list, was: Fw: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility]
>     Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my JRE
>     To: "Tom Davies" 
>     Cc: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
>     Date: Monday, 8 October, 2012, 12:25
>
>     Hello,
>
>     Here is the page where you can subscribe to a few e-mail lists for nvda
>     including support hope this is what your looking for.
>     http://www.nvda-project.org/wiki/Support
>
>     On 08/10/2012 11:44, Tom Davies wrote:
>      > Hi :)
>      > How do you join the Nvda list?  Where is it?
>      >
>      > Would it be a good idea to create a wiki-page to introduce people
>     to accessibility issue related to LO (and perhaps wider?).  The
>     documentation mailing list has a ton of wiki-pages about all sorts
>     of things to help them keep track of different things and to help
>     people join in with what they are doing.  The java-bridge page seems
>     reasonably popular already even though it's not widely known about.
>     Would it be useful to have an accessibility wiki-page that links to
>     various external in internal sources?
>      >
>      > I could set-up a page if that would help but you guys & ladies
>     might have to add useful content.  Pretty much anything you have
>     found useful might be useful to other people however trivial or
>     obvious it might have seemed to you.  Also i don't quite understand
>     how to get a table-of-contents onto wiki-pages here.  Perhaps this
>     address would be good?
>      > https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Accessibility
>      >
>      > Ooops, lol!  The page already exists but it seems you have a lot
>     to add including the link to the java-bridge page and it might be
>     good to add a link to that page from somewhere sensible on the main
>     home-page
>      > https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Main_Page
>      > Regards from
>      > Tom :)
>      >
>      >
>      > --- On Mon, 8/10/12, V Stuart Foote      > wrote:
>      >
>      > From: V Stuart Foote      >
>      > Subject: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play
>     Nice with my JRE
>      > To: "Kevin Cussick"      >,
>     accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
>     
>      > Date: Monday, 8 October, 2012, 2:05
>      >
>      > Kevin,
>      >
>      > Golly. I hate to keep harping on this.  And I know it must seem
>     like we are asking you to jump through hoops.
>      >
>      > But as Tom notes the effort is to clear it everything off and
>     start clean from a known state. In your latest attempt you've ended
>     up non-functional.
>      >
>      > To have a correct outcome, the install order IS important.
>     LibreOffice gets install LAST.
>      >
>      > Remove in this order:
>      >
>      >    1.   LibreOffice
>      >     2.  NVDA
>      >     3.  Java Access Bridge
>      >     4.  Java Runtime Environment
> 

Re: Nvda list, was: Fw: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my JRE

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
A quick search of the Nvda web-site shows they don't list Libre Office yet.  
They still only have Open Office and they call it OpenOffice.org although it's 
recently become AOO = Apache OpenOffice.  

Can someone on their lists ask them to update?  Perhaps give them this link to 
the relevant page on LO's wiki?
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Accessibility
I think their advice for Open Office is equally relevant to LibreOffice so 
perhaps make it 1 section called something like
"Apache's OpenOffice and TDF's LibreOffice"
They have a line about recommending people use IBM's Lotus Symphony which is no 
longer available afaik and the code is not in AOO just yet.  It might take 
quite a long time to appear.  

They say there is a problem reading OOo's read-only documents.  Is that still a 
problem?  Are LO's difficult to read too?
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications
The documentation team started to put a lot of work into trying to make them 
easier but they may have forgotten or got side-tracked.  

Also Nvda's own guide only seems to be available in html format.  Would they 
like help from LO's team to get it into a nice Pdf and/or Odt format?  Perhaps 
help with getting them available as printed books through Lulu?  The docs team 
generated a little cash that way but more importantly got their guides out to a 
wider audience.  I wonder if Lulu could print in braille?  Does anyone here 
translate LO or OO's guides into braille?  If so which languages?  

Wow!  Lots more questions!
Regards from
Tom :)  


--- On Mon, 8/10/12, Kevin Cussick  
wrote:

From: Kevin Cussick 
Subject: Re: Nvda list, was: Fw: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo 
Won't Play Nice with my JRE
To: "Tom Davies" 
Cc: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Monday, 8 October, 2012, 12:25

Hello,

Here is the page where you can subscribe to a few e-mail lists for nvda 
including support hope this is what your looking for. 
http://www.nvda-project.org/wiki/Support

On 08/10/2012 11:44, Tom Davies wrote:
> Hi :)
> How do you join the Nvda list?  Where is it?
>
> Would it be a good idea to create a wiki-page to introduce people to 
> accessibility issue related to LO (and perhaps wider?).  The documentation 
> mailing list has a ton of wiki-pages about all sorts of things to help them 
> keep track of different things and to help people join in with what they are 
> doing.  The java-bridge page seems reasonably popular already even though 
> it's not widely known about.  Would it be useful to have an accessibility 
> wiki-page that links to various external in internal sources?
>
> I could set-up a page if that would help but you guys & ladies might have to 
> add useful content.  Pretty much anything you have found useful might be 
> useful to other people however trivial or obvious it might have seemed to 
> you.  Also i don't quite understand how to get a table-of-contents onto 
> wiki-pages here.  Perhaps this address would be good?
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Accessibility
>
> Ooops, lol!  The page already exists but it seems you have a lot to add 
> including the link to the java-bridge page and it might be good to add a link 
> to that page from somewhere sensible on the main home-page
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Main_Page
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
> --- On Mon, 8/10/12, V Stuart Foote  wrote:
>
> From: V Stuart Foote 
> Subject: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my 
> JRE
> To: "Kevin Cussick" , 
> accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
> Date: Monday, 8 October, 2012, 2:05
>
> Kevin,
>
> Golly. I hate to keep harping on this.  And I know it must seem like we are 
> asking you to jump through hoops.
>
> But as Tom notes the effort is to clear it everything off and start clean 
> from a known state. In your latest attempt you've ended up non-functional.
>
> To have a correct outcome, the install order IS important. LibreOffice gets 
> install LAST.
>
> Remove in this order:
>
>    1.   LibreOffice
>     2.  NVDA
>     3.  Java Access Bridge
>     4.  Java Runtime Environment
>
> Install in this order
>
>      1. Java Runtime Environment
>      2. Java Access Bridge
>      3. NVDA
>      4. LibreOffice
>
> But note this:  with JRE 1.7u7, the Java Access Bridge v2.0.3 is installed 
> automatically and just needs to be enabled with a "jabswitch.exe /enable" 
> command.   Only for JRE 1.6 do you still need to use the JWin utility to 
> install and configure Java Access Bridge v2.0.2.
>
> In other words you should no longer use the JWin program with JRE 1.7 greater 
> than update 6. Rather, simply enable the built in Ja

Re: Nvda list, was: Fw: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my JRE

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Thanks! :)  I added the link to the end of the wiki-page
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Accessibility
and the new section appeared in the T.o.C.!  I put a link to the java-bridge 
page in the intro.  Feel free to edit of course.  

Finally added a section to the wiki's home-page
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Main_Page
You might want to edit that one but i thought it might be good to try to 
encourage people to try out the accessibility features even if they don't 
really need them for themselves yet.  More people using them might boost the 
amount of people working on the problems, maybe?

Regards from
Tom :)  


--- On Mon, 8/10/12, Kevin Cussick  
wrote:

From: Kevin Cussick 
Subject: Re: Nvda list, was: Fw: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo 
Won't Play Nice with my JRE
To: "Tom Davies" 
Cc: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Monday, 8 October, 2012, 12:25

Hello,

Here is the page where you can subscribe to a few e-mail lists for nvda 
including support hope this is what your looking for. 
http://www.nvda-project.org/wiki/Support

On 08/10/2012 11:44, Tom Davies wrote:
> Hi :)
> How do you join the Nvda list?  Where is it?
>
> Would it be a good idea to create a wiki-page to introduce people to 
> accessibility issue related to LO (and perhaps wider?).  The documentation 
> mailing list has a ton of wiki-pages about all sorts of things to help them 
> keep track of different things and to help people join in with what they are 
> doing.  The java-bridge page seems reasonably popular already even though 
> it's not widely known about.  Would it be useful to have an accessibility 
> wiki-page that links to various external in internal sources?
>
> I could set-up a page if that would help but you guys & ladies might have to 
> add useful content.  Pretty much anything you have found useful might be 
> useful to other people however trivial or obvious it might have seemed to 
> you.  Also i don't quite understand how to get a table-of-contents onto 
> wiki-pages here.  Perhaps this address would be good?
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Accessibility
>
> Ooops, lol!  The page already exists but it seems you have a lot to add 
> including the link to the java-bridge page and it might be good to add a link 
> to that page from somewhere sensible on the main home-page
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Main_Page
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
> --- On Mon, 8/10/12, V Stuart Foote  wrote:
>
> From: V Stuart Foote 
> Subject: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my 
> JRE
> To: "Kevin Cussick" , 
> accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
> Date: Monday, 8 October, 2012, 2:05
>
> Kevin,
>
> Golly. I hate to keep harping on this.  And I know it must seem like we are 
> asking you to jump through hoops.
>
> But as Tom notes the effort is to clear it everything off and start clean 
> from a known state. In your latest attempt you've ended up non-functional.
>
> To have a correct outcome, the install order IS important. LibreOffice gets 
> install LAST.
>
> Remove in this order:
>
>    1.   LibreOffice
>     2.  NVDA
>     3.  Java Access Bridge
>     4.  Java Runtime Environment
>
> Install in this order
>
>      1. Java Runtime Environment
>      2. Java Access Bridge
>      3. NVDA
>      4. LibreOffice
>
> But note this:  with JRE 1.7u7, the Java Access Bridge v2.0.3 is installed 
> automatically and just needs to be enabled with a "jabswitch.exe /enable" 
> command.   Only for JRE 1.6 do you still need to use the JWin utility to 
> install and configure Java Access Bridge v2.0.2.
>
> In other words you should no longer use the JWin program with JRE 1.7 greater 
> than update 6. Rather, simply enable the built in Java Access Bridge and then 
> install NVDA and finally LibreOffice.
>
> Also, during LibreOffice 3.6 installation, on the last page of Installation 
> Wizard configuration "Ready to Install the Program" there will be two check 
> boxes 1) "Create a start link on desktop", and 2) "Support assistive 
> technology tools"  Check that box and then select the Install button.
>
> The assistive technology checkbox is off by default--and must be checked to 
> enable assistive technology in LibreOffice without navigating the Tools -> 
> Options -> Accessibility and Tools -> Options Java menus.
>
> Without the Accessibility "Support assistive technology tools" checked, NVDA 
> will read the outside frame elements of LibreOffice-but will not be able to 
> read or navigate text within the components.
>
> Stuart
>
>
> 
>
> From: Kevin Cussick [

Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my JRE

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I try to pop in to a few local ones from time-to-time just to listen in on how 
sensbile and accurate their banter is.  Sometimes ask a few questions just to 
hear their responses.  In my town we are lucky to have a few that are a 
hilarious joke and another couple that are really quite knowledgeable.  
Regards from
Tom :)  


--- On Mon, 8/10/12, Kevin Cussick  
wrote:

From: Kevin Cussick 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my JRE
To: "Tom Davies" 
Cc: "V Stuart Foote" , "Kevin Cussick" 
, accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Monday, 8 October, 2012, 12:29

Na mate thanks I will do it my self, the problems I have had in the 
early days with computer shops that know nothing about accessibility is 
not going to get me running to them any time soon thanks anyway.

On 08/10/2012 12:23, Tom Davies wrote:
> Hi :)
> Is it possible to get someone local to help you with this?  Can you
> uninstall again but make sure it's in the right order and then reinstall
> in the right order?
>
> I take it that it's going to make the machine unusable for you for a
> while after certain things are uninstalled so it would be great to get
> someone else to do that part.  Given that you have reached this list you
> are probably more of a techie than most people you know but maybe
> someone you know can follow instructions well?  Maybe a local computer
> shop or someone advertising doing home-repairs?
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
> --- On *Mon, 8/10/12, Kevin Cussick
> //* wrote:
>
>
>     From: Kevin Cussick 
>     Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice
>     with my JRE
>     To: "V Stuart Foote" 
>     Cc: "Kevin Cussick" ,
>     accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
>     Date: Monday, 8 October, 2012, 11:54
>
>     Hello,
>
>     Thanks for your very informative post.
>
>     I have done everything correctly but maybe the way I uninstalled and
>     reinstalled is wrong. in your last post it did say to download the
>     J-win installer now your saying not to do it?
>
>     Oh dear this is getting mad, anyway I will put your mail into a text
>     file and thank you once again for both your help and your patients.
>     I don't really hold out much hope but I will giver it 1 last try. I
>     will ask over on the nvda dev list if I should run the portable nvda
>     I don't really see this doing any harm but will ask anyway. I did
>     switch the check box on for accessibility in lo.
>
>     On 08/10/2012 02:05, V Stuart Foote wrote:
>      > Kevin,
>      > Golly. I hate to keep harping on this.  And I know it must seem
>     like we
>      > are asking you to jump through hoops.
>      > But as Tom notes the effort is to clear it everything off and start
>      > clean from a known state. In your latest attempt you've ended up
>      > non-functional.
>      > To have a correct outcome, the install order IS important.
>     LibreOffice
>      > gets install LAST.
>      > Remove in this order:
>      >    1.   LibreOffice
>      >     2.  NVDA
>      >     3.  Java Access Bridge
>      >     4.  Java Runtime Environment
>      > Install in this order
>      >      1. Java Runtime Environment
>      >      2. Java Access Bridge
>      >      3. NVDA
>      >   4. LibreOffice
>      > But note this:  with JRE 1.7u7, the Java Access Bridge v2.0.3 is
>      > installed automatically and just needs to be enabled with a
>      > "jabswitch.exe /enable" command. Only for JRE 1.6 do you still
>     need to
>      > use the JWin utility to install and configure Java Access Bridge
>     v2.0.2.
>      > In other words you should no longer use the JWin program with JRE
>      > 1.7 greater than update 6. Rather, simply enable the built in Java
>      > Access Bridge and then install NVDA and finally LibreOffice.
>      > Also, during LibreOffice 3.6 installation, on the last page of
>      > Installation Wizard configuration "Ready to Install the Program"
>     there
>      > will be two check boxes 1) "Create a start link on desktop", and
>      > 2) "Support assistive technology tools"  Check that box and then
>     select
>      > the Install button.
>      > The assistive technology checkbox is off by default--and must be
>     checked
>      > to enable assistive technology in LibreOffice without navigating the
>      > Tools -> Options -> Accessibility and Tools -> Options Java menus.
>      > Without the Accessibility "Support assistive technology tools"
>

Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my JRE

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Is it possible to get someone local to help you with this?  Can you uninstall 
again but make sure it's in the right order and then reinstall in the right 
order?  

I take it that it's going to make the machine unusable for you for a while 
after certain things are uninstalled so it would be great to get someone else 
to do that part.  Given that you have reached this list you are probably more 
of a techie than most people you know but maybe someone you know can follow 
instructions well?  Maybe a local computer shop or someone advertising doing 
home-repairs?  
Regards from
Tom :)  


--- On Mon, 8/10/12, Kevin Cussick  
wrote:

From: Kevin Cussick 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my JRE
To: "V Stuart Foote" 
Cc: "Kevin Cussick" , 
accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Monday, 8 October, 2012, 11:54

Hello,

Thanks for your very informative post.

I have done everything correctly but maybe the way I uninstalled and 
reinstalled is wrong. in your last post it did say to download the J-win 
installer now your saying not to do it?

Oh dear this is getting mad, anyway I will put your mail into a text file and 
thank you once again for both your help and your patients. I don't really hold 
out much hope but I will giver it 1 last try. I will ask over on the nvda dev 
list if I should run the portable nvda I don't really see this doing any harm 
but will ask anyway. I did switch the check box on for accessibility in lo.

On 08/10/2012 02:05, V Stuart Foote wrote:
> Kevin,
> Golly. I hate to keep harping on this.  And I know it must seem like we
> are asking you to jump through hoops.
> But as Tom notes the effort is to clear it everything off and start
> clean from a known state. In your latest attempt you've ended up
> non-functional.
> To have a correct outcome, the install order IS important. LibreOffice
> gets install LAST.
> Remove in this order:
>    1.   LibreOffice
>     2.  NVDA
>     3.  Java Access Bridge
>     4.  Java Runtime Environment
> Install in this order
>      1. Java Runtime Environment
>      2. Java Access Bridge
>      3. NVDA
>      4. LibreOffice
> But note this:  with JRE 1.7u7, the Java Access Bridge v2.0.3 is
> installed automatically and just needs to be enabled with a
> "jabswitch.exe /enable" command. Only for JRE 1.6 do you still need to
> use the JWin utility to install and configure Java Access Bridge v2.0.2.
> In other words you should no longer use the JWin program with JRE
> 1.7 greater than update 6. Rather, simply enable the built in Java
> Access Bridge and then install NVDA and finally LibreOffice.
> Also, during LibreOffice 3.6 installation, on the last page of
> Installation Wizard configuration "Ready to Install the Program" there
> will be two check boxes 1) "Create a start link on desktop", and
> 2) "Support assistive technology tools"  Check that box and then select
> the Install button.
> The assistive technology checkbox is off by default--and must be checked
> to enable assistive technology in LibreOffice without navigating the
> Tools -> Options -> Accessibility and Tools -> Options Java menus.
> Without the Accessibility "Support assistive technology tools" checked,
> NVDA will read the outside frame elements of LibreOffice-but will not be
> able to read or navigate text within the components.
> Stuart
> //
> 
> *From:* Kevin Cussick [mailto:the.big.white.sheph...@googlemail.com]
> *Sent:* Sun 10/7/2012 5:47 PM
> *To:* Tom Davies
> *Cc:* V Stuart Foote; Kevin Cussick; accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
> *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice
> with my JRE
> 
> Hello,
> 
> OK I uninstalled Lo, uninstalled the java7 TM update I think it was
> installed nvda I can't see anything that relates to access bridge,
> because the java7 just downloads it with window's anyway. rebooted the
> PC installed lo, installed the downloaded java.exe 32 bit it is version
> 7,rebooted the PC but before doing so checked that the java switch was
> checked it was, then reinstalled Nvda I used the portable version of
> nvda this dose not use anything that Java would be needing anyway. It's
> getting late so struggling to keep focused, anyway the result is that I
> did not get lo working oh nearly forgot after rebooting but before
> installing nvda again I downloaded the jwin program ran it and ran the
> have ferret.exe file as well, but as said nothing what now? thanks in
> advance but I am about to give up If I hear that anyone else has this
> latest stable version running with java7 and the access bridge t

Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] bug 50926

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Looks fine to me although i'm not a dev.  As you already know i have pushed the 
question to the Users List because there are a few people there that might well 
know better.  They might take an interest and be more helpful about getting the 
message to the devs too with any luck.  
Good luck and regards from
Tom :)
 

--- On Mon, 8/10/12, Peter Rayner  wrote:

From: Peter Rayner 
Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] bug 50926
To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Monday, 8 October, 2012, 1:55

A few of us are having a problem with interaction between libreoffice
writer and orca. I filed a bug at
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50926 
in early June but there's no action shown against it. Did I file this
wrongly (my first freedesktop bug report) or is there anything else I
can do to help progress this?
thanks in advance
Peter


-- 
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room 343 
School of Earth Sciences, University of Melbourne, 3010, Vic, Australia
tel: work: +61 (0)3 8344 9708; fax: +61 (0)3 8344 7761 
mobile +61 402 752 379, skype: petermorag 
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and
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] bug 50926

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)  
I'm not sure how to forwards this to the devs list.  

There has been some talk of getting accessibility bugs marked out to 
differentiate them from others and perhaps raise the priority on them to 
hopefully get them fixed faster.  

Thanks to IBM's gift of their Lotus Symphony code to Apache AOO is going to 
have a major boost to it's accessibility and that is going to give AOO a 
significant advantage in corporate environments.  So, accessibility needs to be 
a priority (along with Base) for LO imo. 
Regards from
Tom :)  



--- On Mon, 8/10/12, Peter Rayner  wrote:

From: Peter Rayner 
Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] bug 50926
To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Monday, 8 October, 2012, 1:55

A few of us are having a problem with interaction between libreoffice
writer and orca. I filed a bug at
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50926 
in early June but there's no action shown against it. Did I file this
wrongly (my first freedesktop bug report) or is there anything else I
can do to help progress this?
thanks in advance
Peter


-- 
Peter Rayner
School of Earth Sciences, University of Melbourne, 3010, Vic, Australia
skype: petermorag 
mail-to: pray...@unimelb.edu.au

and
CLIMMOD ENGINEERING
http://www.climmod.com
mail-to: peter.ray...@climmod.com


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Nvda list, was: Fw: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my JRE

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)  
How do you join the Nvda list?  Where is it?  

Would it be a good idea to create a wiki-page to introduce people to 
accessibility issue related to LO (and perhaps wider?).  The documentation 
mailing list has a ton of wiki-pages about all sorts of things to help them 
keep track of different things and to help people join in with what they are 
doing.  The java-bridge page seems reasonably popular already even though it's 
not widely known about.  Would it be useful to have an accessibility wiki-page 
that links to various external in internal sources?  

I could set-up a page if that would help but you guys & ladies might have to 
add useful content.  Pretty much anything you have found useful might be useful 
to other people however trivial or obvious it might have seemed to you.  Also i 
don't quite understand how to get a table-of-contents onto wiki-pages here.  
Perhaps this address would be good?
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Accessibility

Ooops, lol!  The page already exists but it seems you have a lot to add 
including the link to the java-bridge page and it might be good to add a link 
to that page from somewhere sensible on the main home-page
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Main_Page
Regards from
Tom :)  


--- On Mon, 8/10/12, V Stuart Foote  wrote:

From: V Stuart Foote 
Subject: RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my JRE
To: "Kevin Cussick" , 
accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Monday, 8 October, 2012, 2:05

Kevin,
 
Golly. I hate to keep harping on this.  And I know it must seem like we are 
asking you to jump through hoops.
 
But as Tom notes the effort is to clear it everything off and start clean from 
a known state. In your latest attempt you've ended up non-functional.
 
To have a correct outcome, the install order IS important. LibreOffice gets 
install LAST.
 
Remove in this order:  
 
  1.   LibreOffice 
   2.  NVDA 
   3.  Java Access Bridge 
   4.  Java Runtime Environment
 
Install in this order
 
    1. Java Runtime Environment
    2. Java Access Bridge
    3. NVDA
    4. LibreOffice
 
But note this:  with JRE 1.7u7, the Java Access Bridge v2.0.3 is installed 
automatically and just needs to be enabled with a "jabswitch.exe /enable" 
command.   Only for JRE 1.6 do you still need to use the JWin utility to 
install and configure Java Access Bridge v2.0.2.  
 
In other words you should no longer use the JWin program with JRE 1.7 greater 
than update 6. Rather, simply enable the built in Java Access Bridge and then 
install NVDA and finally LibreOffice.
 
Also, during LibreOffice 3.6 installation, on the last page of Installation 
Wizard configuration "Ready to Install the Program" there will be two check 
boxes 1) "Create a start link on desktop", and 2) "Support assistive technology 
tools"  Check that box and then select the Install button.
 
The assistive technology checkbox is off by default--and must be checked to 
enable assistive technology in LibreOffice without navigating the Tools -> 
Options -> Accessibility and Tools -> Options Java menus.  
 
Without the Accessibility "Support assistive technology tools" checked, NVDA 
will read the outside frame elements of LibreOffice-but will not be able to 
read or navigate text within the components.
 
Stuart




From: Kevin Cussick [mailto:the.big.white.sheph...@googlemail.com]
Sent: Sun 10/7/2012 5:47 PM
To: Tom Davies
Cc: V Stuart Foote; Kevin Cussick; accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my JRE



Hello,

OK I uninstalled Lo, uninstalled the java7 TM update I think it was
installed nvda I can't see anything that relates to access bridge,
because the java7 just downloads it with window's anyway. rebooted the
PC installed lo, installed the downloaded java.exe 32 bit it is version
7,rebooted the PC but before doing so checked that the java switch was
checked it was, then reinstalled Nvda I used the portable version of
nvda this dose not use anything that Java would be needing anyway. It's
getting late so struggling to keep focused, anyway the result is that I
did not get lo working oh nearly forgot after rebooting but before
installing nvda again I downloaded the jwin program ran it and ran the
have ferret.exe file as well, but as said nothing what now? thanks in
advance but I am about to give up If I hear that anyone else has this
latest stable version running with java7 and the access bridge then I am
happy to take instruction on how to fix it, but if not I think I have
reached the end of the road.

I have a feeling it is a problem with lo and u as well as has been said
on the Nvda list. but I hope to be proved wrong thanks for all your help
all who have tried to help.




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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my JRE

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Instructions are here
http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
The link does appear at the bottom of each email. 

The unsubscribe renders badly in most email clients because they ignore the 
"plus sign" and what goes before it but the address to email is the entirety of 
the line below:  
accessibility+h...@global.libreoffice.org

Note that if you just click on that address then it probably puts the wrong 
email address in your email client, unless you are using Thunder bird or Claws 
or similar.  You need to have the "accessibility+" part at the beginning of the 
address.  

It's a shame to lose you but good luck and have fun!  
Regards from
Tom :)  


--- On Mon, 8/10/12, Jaap van de Putte  wrote:

From: Jaap van de Putte 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my JRE
To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Monday, 8 October, 2012, 6:39

Hi,

How can I unsubscribe from this list? Why is there not a normal unsubscribe 
link at the bottom of each mail?

Jaap


Op 8-10-2012 0:47, Kevin Cussick schreef:
> Hello,
> 
> OK I uninstalled Lo, uninstalled the java7 TM update I think it was installed 
> nvda I can't see anything that relates to access bridge, because the java7 
> just downloads it with window's anyway. rebooted the PC installed lo, 
> installed the downloaded java.exe 32 bit it is version 7,rebooted the PC but 
> before doing so checked that the java switch was checked it was, then 
> reinstalled Nvda I used the portable version of nvda this dose not use 
> anything that Java would be needing anyway. It's getting late so struggling 
> to keep focused, anyway the result is that I did not get lo working oh nearly 
> forgot after rebooting but before installing nvda again I downloaded the jwin 
> program ran it and ran the have ferret.exe file as well, but as said nothing 
> what now? thanks in advance but I am about to give up If I hear that anyone 
> else has this latest stable version running with java7 and the access bridge 
> then I am happy to take instruction on how to fix it, but if
 not I think I have reached the end of the road.
> 
> I have a feeling it is a problem with lo and u as well as has been said on 
> the Nvda list. but I hope to be proved wrong thanks for all your help all who 
> have tried to help.
> 
> On 07/10/2012 22:59, Tom Davies wrote:
>> Hi :)
>> I think the point was to completely clear your system of all of it so
>> that you could get a fresh start.
>> 
>> I think a lot of the programs that combine to give accessibility are
>> inter-related and when it goes wrong it's because one bit is pointing at
>> some old version that has been removed or upgraded without all the other
>> bits noticing.  I think the idea is to have a poke around and try to
>> find if it's something obvious but if/when that fails, as it did in your
>> case, then it's better to just wipe the slate clean rather than to try
>> to trouble-shoot through tons of detail.
>> 
>> Note that i am fairly clueless about all this but it seems to have
>> worked for quite a few people on this list so far.
>> Regards from
>> Tom :)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --- On *Sun, 7/10/12, Kevin Cussick
>> //* wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>     From: Kevin Cussick 
>>     Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice
>>     with my JRE
>>     To: "V Stuart Foote" 
>>     Cc: "Kevin Cussick" ,
>>     accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
>>     Date: Sunday, 7 October, 2012, 21:44
>> 
>>     Hello,
>> 
>>     Forgot to ask in another e-mail you say we should uninstall Nvda.
>>     why? or if we uninstall the installer can we run the portable
>>     version so we get some good access to get this software up and
>>     running? with thanks as always.
>> 
>>     On 06/10/2012 20:01, V Stuart Foote wrote:
>> > Kevin.
>> > That is an Oracle issue with really crappy URLs.  Your web
>>     browser, or
>> > mail reader, simply inserted a line break at the hyphen! The fully
>> > functional URL is:
>> >
>>     
>>http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jre7u7-downloads-1836441.html
>> > You are most welcome for the continued assistance.
>> > And, if you are able to contribute clearer and more intelligible
>> > instructions for visually impaired users, please do so--I'm not
>>     sure I
>> > can make it any simpler to follow. Sorry.
>> > Stuart
>> >
>>     
>> &g

Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my JRE

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I think the point was to completely clear your system of all of it so that you 
could get a fresh start.  

I think a lot of the programs that combine to give accessibility are 
inter-related and when it goes wrong it's because one bit is pointing at some 
old version that has been removed or upgraded without all the other bits 
noticing.  I think the idea is to have a poke around and try to find if it's 
something obvious but if/when that fails, as it did in your case, then it's 
better to just wipe the slate clean rather than to try to trouble-shoot through 
tons of detail.  

Note that i am fairly clueless about all  this but it seems to have worked for 
quite a few people on this list so far.  
Regards from
Tom :)  



--- On Sun, 7/10/12, Kevin Cussick  
wrote:

From: Kevin Cussick 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice with my JRE
To: "V Stuart Foote" 
Cc: "Kevin Cussick" , 
accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Sunday, 7 October, 2012, 21:44

Hello,

Forgot to ask in another e-mail you say we should uninstall Nvda. why? or if we 
uninstall the installer can we run the portable version so we get some good 
access to get this software up and running? with thanks as always.

On 06/10/2012 20:01, V Stuart Foote wrote:
> Kevin.
> That is an Oracle issue with really crappy URLs.  Your web browser, or
> mail reader, simply inserted a line break at the hyphen! The fully
> functional URL is:
> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jre7u7-downloads-1836441.html
> You are most welcome for the continued assistance.
> And, if you are able to contribute clearer and more intelligible
> instructions for visually impaired users, please do so--I'm not sure I
> can make it any simpler to follow. Sorry.
> Stuart
> 
> *From:* Kevin Cussick [mailto:the.big.white.sheph...@googlemail.com]
> *Sent:* Sat 10/6/2012 1:46 PM
> *To:* V Stuart Foote
> *Cc:* David Goldfield; accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
> *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Latest Libo Won't Play Nice
> with my JRE
> 
> What a lot of hoops we are expected to jump threw just use your
> program really if the sited user had to do this open office and lo
> would not be on the market more than 24 hours! and this link dose not
> work 404 page not found.
> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jre7u7-downloads
> 

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[libreoffice-accessibility] Java access bridge again.

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
We have been discussing this off-list for a while but i'm cc'ing it back to the 
list now in the hope that someone might be able to help
Regards from
Tom :)  






>
> From: Kevin Cussick 
>To: Tom Davies  
>Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 10:48
>Subject: Re: Any luck so far?  Re: Can't get Libra office working with Java 
>access bridge and java7.
> 
>Hello,
>
>Yes your correct I might just try 1 last  thing and add the path to the 
>.ja32 file do you think this might fix it?  If not then I will not waste 
>any more time with this software, it's a bloody shame as the devs have 
>put in the switch at the install stage it would seem that that switch 
>does not seem to work anyway.  My sighted daughter looked under the 
>accessibility settings in LO, the box was not checked in spite of me 
>checking it, but this might be because of the java issues.  Ok, thanks for 
>your help and if you do hear any more about this please pass it along if 
>I miss it.  I did not check am I posting to the list or just replying to 
>you?  Have a nice week and thanks for your interest in this saga.
>
>On 02/10/2012 20:09, Tom Davies wrote:
>> Hi :)
>> Ahh, i hope you have found something that does work.  I also hope that
>> LO (and AOO) fix whatever problem it is that is blocking or creating
>> problems for the bridge.  Even better would be if they re-wrote all the
>> accessibility stuff in python instead of java but i'm not going to hold
>> my breath waiting for that!!
>>
>> There is only so long that you can beat your head against a wall.  It's
>> best to move on and then maybe check back later in a few months or maybe
>> a year or something
>> Apols and regards from
>> Tom :)
>>
>>
>>     
>>     *From:* Kevin Cussick 
>>     *To:* Tom Davies 
>>     *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 October 2012, 18:15
>>     *Subject:* Re: Any luck so far? Re: Can't get Libra office working
>>     with Java access bridge and java7.
>>
>>     Hi tom I did put an e-mail but it went all wrong because I had been
>>     playing around with another program.
>>
>>     I am sorry to say that Libre Office is not an option at this time
>>     for me.
>>
>>     I did delete the java XML file and started again but no joy at this
>>     time. I have heard and I stress I have only heard that ooo and
>>     therefore
>>     libo have omitted something in the code of the latest version of there
>>     program. I don't know if this is true or not but I have heard this on
>>     other lists. and this is why it will not work, if anyone has got this
>>     working and want to chat and try and get it working my skype name is
>>    
>
>
>
>
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[libreoffice-accessibility] Can't get Libra office working with Java access bridge and java7.

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
The question did get to the list originally but the list was unusually quiet at 
the time after an unusually busy period during the paralympics

Hopefully someone here can remember how to fix the java-bridge or hopefully 
this wiki-page might help
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq/Java
I think it's a work-in-progress.    
Regards from
Tom :)  



--- On Sat, 29/9/12, Kevin Cussick  
wrote:



>     Hope this gets to the list.
>
>     I use Nvda and I can't get Libra office working with java access
>     bridge that should come with java-7.
>
>     I have installed libra office switched on the accessibility during
>     the install I have under use the computer without a display checked
>     to have the access bridge switched on, I have open office pointing
>     to c:programfilesjava7 please this might not be the exact path to
>     the jre I need to install, but I can assure you it is pointing at
>     the jre-7 folder anyway I have been told that Libra office has
>     forgotten to put the accessibility into the latest version, I have
>     tried older versions 5.0 I think. anyway this dose not work either.
>     some help would be nice thanks in advance. I asked about a year ago
>     but is there no further progress on Ia2 getting ported into libra
>     office? thanks for any help in advance.
>


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[libreoffice-accessibility] What's New in Evolution 3.6

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
There has been some discussion on the Users List about email clients.  It seems 
LibreOffice is compatible with quite a few and people might be interested to 
hear about a new release of one of the larger ones.  Larger and more like a 
drop-in replacement for MS Outlook.  It's not a new project but it's still 
developing quite fast.  

Regards from
Tom :)  





>
> From: Matthew Barnes 
>To: evolution-l...@gnome.org 
>Sent: Wednesday, 19 September 2012, 15:13
>Subject: [Evolution] What's New in Evolution 3.6
> 
>I've never been very good about posting release announcements, but
>Evolution 3.6.0 is set to be released next week and it's a pretty big
>release for us.  I just wanted to highlight a couple major changes so
>you know what to expect.
>
>
>Hello, WebKit!
>--
>
>We're in the process of abandoning our ancient HTML renderer (GtkHtml)
>for WebKit/GTK+.  We're spreading this across two releases just because
>it's such a large workload.  Dan Vrátil did most of the WebKit porting
>and he's an absolute superhero for doing so.
>
>Evolution 3.6 will render received mail using WebKit/GTK+.  That means
>HTML mails containing CSS will finally be displayed correctly, since our
>old HTML renderer had no CSS support.
>
>The email composer in Evolution 3.6 will still use GtkHtml, but Dan
>already has a branch ready to merge which ports the composer to WebKit,
>so we'll spend the entire 3.7 development cycle testing that and shaking
>out the bugs in time for Evolution 3.8 next spring.
>
>
>Goodbye GConf!
>--
>
>Evolution mostly moved from GConf to dconf (aka GSettings) in 3.4, but
>account settings were still kept in GConf in those nasty XML blobs that
>everyone hates, including myself.  This is because I was taking my sweet
>time to finish a complete overhaul of our account storage format, which
>I had actually started all the way back in the GNOME 2.32 era.
>
>Evolution 3.6 will move your account data to plain text files which live
>in $HOME/.config/evolution/sources.  Evolution-Data-Server 3.6 will also
>introduce a new D-Bus service which will serve these files to Evolution,
>GNOME Contacts, GNOME Shell and any other E-D-S client, and also handle
>various other miscellaneous chores like talking to GNOME Online Accounts
>and cleaning up old data after you delete an account.
>
>WARNING: Because our data migration is always one-way only (forward),
>         and because Evolution 3.4 does not know the new account storage
>         format or the new storage location in 3.6, downgrading from 3.6
>         back to 3.4 is going to be problematic.
>
>         Similar to when we moved files from $HOME/.evolution to the
>         standard XDG base directories back in 2.32, downgrading from
>         3.6 won't technically lose your account settings, but older
>         versions won't be able to find them.  So be aware of this.
>
>
>Smaller Development Team
>
>
>And now for some sad news.  Since Evolution 3.4 was released we've had a
>significant reduction in our development team.  SUSE decided to cut all
>funding of Evolution development and reassigned its (formerly Novell)
>Evolution developers elsewhere.
>
>That leaves just myself, Milan Crha and Dan Vrátil (all Red Hatters).
>However Dan is in the process transitioning over to Red Hat's KDE team,
>leaving myself and Milan as the only remaining full time developers for
>the moment.
>
>Red Hat does have an open position in the Brno, Czech Republic office
>for a new full-time Evolution developer [1], if anyone is interested.
>
>Unfortunately this staff reduction caused a few software causalities:
>
>* Evolution-GroupWise is now unmaintained and will not see a 3.6
>  release.  The SUSE team had been maintaining this prior to their
>  reassignment, and unfortunately we just don't have adequate resources
>  to keep it going.  If anyone would like to take over maintainership,
>  I'd be happy to assist with getting the module back up to speed.
>
>* Evolution-Exchange is also cut for the same reasons.  That's the old
>  Ximian Connector, which talks to Exchange 2003 via Outlook Web Access
>  but doesn't work with Exchange 2007 or later.
>
>  For Exchange integration, most of our development focus is now on the
>  Exchange Web Services module (Evolution-EWS), but Evolution-MAPI is
>  still being maintained since it works with Exchange 2003 as well as
>  2007 and 2010.
>
>  With only two full-time developers left, we just felt that maintaining
>  three different Microsoft Exchange backends was getting ridiculous and
&g

Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Java Accessibility Bridge - JRE support Wiki

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
It looks nice.  Very simple and straight-forwards once you get past all the 
standard menus and stuff at the top of the page.  

I've not put links to the wiki-page anywhere so people can only get to it from 
clicking on one of the links in the various emails about it or by editing the 
url address at the top of their web-browser.  It's quite useful to point people 
to though if you are answering questions on mailing-lists or in forums.  

Regards from
Tom :)  





>
> From: V Stuart Foote 
>To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Sunday, 9 September 2012, 18:55
>Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] Java Accessibility Bridge - JRE support 
>Wiki
> 
>I've revised the  https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq/Java Wiki post on
>JRE 1.6.u35 and JRE 1.7u7 and Java
>Access Bridge configuration.
>
>My one continuing suggestion--have a single 32-bit JRE (1.6 or 1.7)
>configured for use with LibreOffice, doesn't matter too much which
>branch--but just one.
>
>Please correct, expand and clarify as needed.
>
>Stuart
>
>
>
>
>--
>View this message in context: 
>http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Java-Accessibility-Bridge-JRE-support-Wiki-tp4006402.html
>Sent from the Accessibility mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>-- 
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>
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>
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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] wiki.documentfoundation.org - Vote_for_Enhancement: Implement the IAccessible2 accessibility API

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I think you have to edit the wiki to add your own comment in a relevant place.  
If you can check out other items on the page you find that some have 3 or 4 
reasons why their idea should be dealt with.  


I was thinking about adding something about organisations needing to be able to 
show the software they use could theoretically be used by people by people that 
have accessibility issues.  Given real discrimination out there they probably 
wont have to show it really all works but at least it's a 1st step to breaking 
down some of the discriminatory practices by reducing the amount of excuses 
they can invent.  

Regards from
Tom :)  





>
> From: Jaap van de Putte 
>To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Tuesday, 4 September 2012, 7:44
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] wiki.documentfoundation.org - 
>Vote_for_Enhancement: Implement the IAccessible2 accessibility API
> 
>Hi,
>
>I would like to vote and I have looked on the wiki page but I do not 
>know how to vote there 
>
>Jaap van de Putte
>
>Op 3-9-2012 21:48, V Stuart Foote schreef:
>> Folks,
>>
>> I've placed Bug 39956 - Implement the IAccessible2 accessibility API onto 
>> the Document Foundation Vote for Enhancements wiki found here:
>>
>> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Vote_for_Enhancement
>>
>> Most folks would be surprised to find just how spotty and incomplete 
>> Accessibility and Assistive Technology tools offered with LibreOffice are. 
>> But, I think all can agree that the current UNO - Java Accessibility Bridge 
>> continues to present Java Runtime Environment configuration issues for 
>> Windows. While Linux/Unix users supported with ATK and AT-SPI have had it 
>> better, there are a fair number of unresolved AT issues that affect all 
>> LibO/AOo users. Emerging AT-SPI2 efforts of the Open Accessibility (A11y) 
>> Group that require integration into LibreOffice are backing up.
>>
>> Implementing IAccessibility2 (NOT a trivial technical issue) would improve 
>> accessibility and Assistive Technology tools across all implementations of 
>> LibreOffice, and during the effort would present an opportunity to fully 
>> implement A11y recommendations.
>>
>> Please review the issues affecting this often overlooked aspect of 
>> LibreOffice, and let the BOD and Developer community know more consistent 
>> and complete accessibility support is an effort worth pursuing by commenting 
>> on the "Vote for Enhancements" wiki.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Stuart
>>
>> refs:
>>
>> http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/accessibility/iaccessible2/overview
>> http://www.openoffice.org/api/docs/common/ref/com/sun/star/accessibility/module-ix.html
>> http://www.linuxfoundation.org/news-media/announcements/2010/07/linux-foundation-delivers-new-licensing-terms-testing-tools-accessi
>> http://developer.gnome.org/accessibility-devel-guide/stable/gad-how-it-works.html.en
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
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