[AFMUG] 450m "MUX Gain"

[Adam Moffett]

In the Cambium capacity planner you can set a "MUX Gain" value to 
account for MU-MIMO.  It seems to simply multiply the system capacity by 
the MUX gain. The default value is 3.0.


Has anyone experienced an actual trippling of capacity with the 450m?


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Caldo Tlalpeno

[Jaime Solorza]

Yes...use clean chicken breasts..shred them...boil in water with consume'
(tomato boullion chicken flavor) add garbanzo beans  ..then cooked
rice... little salt...
Once cook... chicken and beans are soft...then add some white
cheese..(muenster will do) and avocado...fresh corn tortillasyum yum
yumpsst.. don't tell my wife...she didn't let me capture her cooking
it...

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 6:22 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> Now that looks like a good treat for a cool evening
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 6:25 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> Chicken breast , garbanzo, rice, consume', avocado...cheese.  Tortillas
>> de maiz.  bubbly
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

[chuck]

How do they charge for it?  Can you do work for the next guy over?

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 6:20 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

I would bet they would be able to get something arranged. You never know if you 
don't ask. I know one isp in the same boat, 150 towers, lots of hills, I can 
see the price being too high. But the other part where they help identify best 
locations to cover from may be worth it. Less towers and more coverage is 
always good. Planting people seeds would be good too. But they're hard to keep 
watered.

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 6:50 PM SmarterBroadband  wrote:

  I would love to give it a go.   But the pricing model of per site does not 
work for us.  We have to have many small sites because of hills and trees , 
over 90 currently.   I can see if you had a few mega sites it could make sense.



  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
  Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 10:15 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat



  much much more than free

  but much much less input and much much much more output

  I had the same question, and skepticism, until i saw the data and applied it 
to our real world.

  The way I look at it, radio mobile costs zero. A no line of site generates 
zero, so thats a wash on its face. but the truck rolled and other jobs werent 
done, so theres a net loss. that in itself probably scales to the price over 
the course of the customer we missed.



  On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 12:10 PM  wrote:

What does it cost?  More than Radio Mobile...?



From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:04 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: [AFMUG] CNHeat



I dont know if many of you degenerates over here still do this pasky WISP 
stuff, but I am demoing CNHeat, this is a literal game changer, we took a no 
line of site this morning to install. we would have walked away, btu happened 
to have the CNHeat for the location. found the spot, great signal (we actually 
missed it because walking the roof and the scan time didnt grab it) 



there was  a marginal spot we considered, this would have been bad long 
term.



we went through migrating a few hundred customers off 320 to EPMp the last 
few months, this would have been a godsend, half of them will need to be 
revisited in spring when leaves come out, but we were pressing to clear 320 to 
make room for 450 cbrs stuff



your installer can walk out the door each morning with a picture and have a 
best location target, install survey times will be minimized and youll know 
youre well beyond first good spot, and on the probably best spot.



I dont come across a product im this excited about too often. If I had the 
time id go look at the last years NLOS and see where we missed revenue options. 
And this is just IDENTIFY the other two components are crazy perfect too



like anything, youll need to know how to look at the data, and its only as 
good as the data you put in, I think we are all familiar with that here.



This is nowhere near free, but i think abut how much less I can do on my 
Access points because of marginal installs, and how much we have lost in NLOS 
that didnt need to be




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Robert]

We looked at that a week ago and asked the same question and came up 
with a plausible answer.   China mobile services are 90% month to month 
and with people confined to their domiciles they can switch to wifi 
calling and cancel service.


On 3/24/20 1:14 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
Regarding the China numbers... there are 3 Chinese mobile telephone 
companies, all owned by the government.


In February, they reported a TOTAL (all 3) loss of 10 million + lines.
Now, you can attribute some of those to job loss... but not all of them.

Deaths?  I suspect the death count in China is massively underreported.




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Adam Moffett]

HrmmmIt looks like I conflated a total unemployment figure from 
December with an "Urban unemployment" figure from February. My numbers 
are a little off kilter.  Allegedly so are theirs. Apparently the "urban 
unemployment" number is considered a very low count because there are 
200 million migrant workers who don't count as "urban" in their census.  
Apparently they don't know how many unemployed they really have.


In any case the scale of the numbers over there is big enough that 20 
million phone subscriptions isn't far from a rounding error.



On 3/24/2020 8:46 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-23/china-s-mobile-carriers-lose-15-million-users-as-virus-bites 



Apparently it's about 20 million mobile phone subscriptions canceled 
over the course of January and February combined.  Except they have 
1.6 Billion mobile subscriptions.  That's about 0.6% drop each month.  
If you had 2000 subscribers that'd be like 12 cancelling in January 
and 12 cancelling in February.  You would probably notice, but it's 
not as insane as the raw number would imply.


They have a workforce of around 750,000,000. 
https://tradingeconomics.com/china/employed-persons



Their unemployment rate went from 3.6% in December to 6.2% in 
February. 
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/16/china-economy-millions-lose-their-jobs-as-unemployment-spikes.html


A change of 2.5%, which is 18,750,000 people.  How many of them paid 
for a phone for a spouse/kid/girlfriend?


Sorry, I'm thinking that 20,000,000 mobile phone subscriptions lost 
actually seems to add up just fine.




On 3/24/2020 4:14 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
Regarding the China numbers... there are 3 Chinese mobile telephone 
companies, all owned by the government.


In February, they reported a TOTAL (all 3) loss of 10 million + lines.
Now, you can attribute some of those to job loss... but not all of them.

Deaths?  I suspect the death count in China is massively underreported.



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Adam Moffett]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-23/china-s-mobile-carriers-lose-15-million-users-as-virus-bites

Apparently it's about 20 million mobile phone subscriptions canceled 
over the course of January and February combined.  Except they have 1.6 
Billion mobile subscriptions.  That's about 0.6% drop each month.  If 
you had 2000 subscribers that'd be like 12 cancelling in January and 12 
cancelling in February.  You would probably notice, but it's not as 
insane as the raw number would imply.


They have a workforce of around 750,000,000. 
https://tradingeconomics.com/china/employed-persons



Their unemployment rate went from 3.6% in December to 6.2% in February. 
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/16/china-economy-millions-lose-their-jobs-as-unemployment-spikes.html


A change of 2.5%, which is 18,750,000 people.  How many of them paid for 
a phone for a spouse/kid/girlfriend?


Sorry, I'm thinking that 20,000,000 mobile phone subscriptions lost 
actually seems to add up just fine.




On 3/24/2020 4:14 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
Regarding the China numbers... there are 3 Chinese mobile telephone 
companies, all owned by the government.


In February, they reported a TOTAL (all 3) loss of 10 million + lines.
Now, you can attribute some of those to job loss... but not all of them.

Deaths?  I suspect the death count in China is massively underreported.



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

[SmarterBroadband]

Pay per successful install would be good.   Win-win.

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 5:20 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

 

I would bet they would be able to get something arranged. You never know if you 
don't ask. I know one isp in the same boat, 150 towers, lots of hills, I can 
see the price being too high. But the other part where they help identify best 
locations to cover from may be worth it. Less towers and more coverage is 
always good. Planting people seeds would be good too. But they're hard to keep 
watered.

 

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 6:50 PM SmarterBroadband mailto:li...@sbb.net> > wrote:

I would love to give it a go.   But the pricing model of per site does not work 
for us.  We have to have many small sites because of hills and trees , over 90 
currently.   I can see if you had a few mega sites it could make sense.

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com  ] On 
Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 10:15 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

 

much much more than free

but much much less input and much much much more output

I had the same question, and skepticism, until i saw the data and applied it to 
our real world.

The way I look at it, radio mobile costs zero. A no line of site generates 
zero, so thats a wash on its face. but the truck rolled and other jobs werent 
done, so theres a net loss. that in itself probably scales to the price over 
the course of the customer we missed.

 

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 12:10 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

What does it cost?  More than Radio Mobile...?

 

From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:04 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: [AFMUG] CNHeat

 

I dont know if many of you degenerates over here still do this pasky WISP 
stuff, but I am demoing CNHeat, this is a literal game changer, we took a no 
line of site this morning to install. we would have walked away, btu happened 
to have the CNHeat for the location. found the spot, great signal (we actually 
missed it because walking the roof and the scan time didnt grab it) 

 

there was  a marginal spot we considered, this would have been bad long term.

 

we went through migrating a few hundred customers off 320 to EPMp the last few 
months, this would have been a godsend, half of them will need to be revisited 
in spring when leaves come out, but we were pressing to clear 320 to make room 
for 450 cbrs stuff

 

your installer can walk out the door each morning with a picture and have a 
best location target, install survey times will be minimized and youll know 
youre well beyond first good spot, and on the probably best spot.

 

I dont come across a product im this excited about too often. If I had the time 
id go look at the last years NLOS and see where we missed revenue options. And 
this is just IDENTIFY the other two components are crazy perfect too

 

like anything, youll need to know how to look at the data, and its only as good 
as the data you put in, I think we are all familiar with that here.

 

This is nowhere near free, but i think abut how much less I can do on my Access 
points because of marginal installs, and how much we have lost in NLOS that 
didnt need to be


  _  


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Caldo Tlalpeno

[Steve Jones]

Now that looks like a good treat for a cool evening

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 6:25 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Chicken breast , garbanzo, rice, consume', avocado...cheese.  Tortillas de
> maiz.  bubbly
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

[Steve Jones]

I would bet they would be able to get something arranged. You never know if
you don't ask. I know one isp in the same boat, 150 towers, lots of hills,
I can see the price being too high. But the other part where they help
identify best locations to cover from may be worth it. Less towers and more
coverage is always good. Planting people seeds would be good too. But
they're hard to keep watered.

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 6:50 PM SmarterBroadband  wrote:

> I would love to give it a go.   But the pricing model of per site does not
> work for us.  We have to have many small sites because of hills and trees ,
> over 90 currently.   I can see if you had a few mega sites it could make
> sense.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 24, 2020 10:15 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>
>
>
> much much more than free
>
> but much much less input and much much much more output
>
> I had the same question, and skepticism, until i saw the data and applied
> it to our real world.
>
> The way I look at it, radio mobile costs zero. A no line of site generates
> zero, so thats a wash on its face. but the truck rolled and other jobs
> werent done, so theres a net loss. that in itself probably scales to the
> price over the course of the customer we missed.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 12:10 PM  wrote:
>
> What does it cost?  More than Radio Mobile...?
>
>
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:04 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] CNHeat
>
>
>
> I dont know if many of you degenerates over here still do this pasky WISP
> stuff, but I am demoing CNHeat, this is a literal game changer, we took a
> no line of site this morning to install. we would have walked away, btu
> happened to have the CNHeat for the location. found the spot, great signal
> (we actually missed it because walking the roof and the scan time didnt
> grab it)
>
>
>
> there was  a marginal spot we considered, this would have been bad long
> term.
>
>
>
> we went through migrating a few hundred customers off 320 to EPMp the last
> few months, this would have been a godsend, half of them will need to be
> revisited in spring when leaves come out, but we were pressing to clear 320
> to make room for 450 cbrs stuff
>
>
>
> your installer can walk out the door each morning with a picture and have
> a best location target, install survey times will be minimized and youll
> know youre well beyond first good spot, and on the probably best spot.
>
>
>
> I dont come across a product im this excited about too often. If I had the
> time id go look at the last years NLOS and see where we missed revenue
> options. And this is just IDENTIFY the other two components are crazy
> perfect too
>
>
>
> like anything, youll need to know how to look at the data, and its only as
> good as the data you put in, I think we are all familiar with that here.
>
>
>
> This is nowhere near free, but i think abut how much less I can do on my
> Access points because of marginal installs, and how much we have lost in
> NLOS that didnt need to be
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

[SmarterBroadband]

I would love to give it a go.   But the pricing model of per site does not work 
for us.  We have to have many small sites because of hills and trees , over 90 
currently.   I can see if you had a few mega sites it could make sense.

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 10:15 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

 

much much more than free

but much much less input and much much much more output

I had the same question, and skepticism, until i saw the data and applied it to 
our real world.

The way I look at it, radio mobile costs zero. A no line of site generates 
zero, so thats a wash on its face. but the truck rolled and other jobs werent 
done, so theres a net loss. that in itself probably scales to the price over 
the course of the customer we missed.

 

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 12:10 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

What does it cost?  More than Radio Mobile...?

 

From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:04 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: [AFMUG] CNHeat

 

I dont know if many of you degenerates over here still do this pasky WISP 
stuff, but I am demoing CNHeat, this is a literal game changer, we took a no 
line of site this morning to install. we would have walked away, btu happened 
to have the CNHeat for the location. found the spot, great signal (we actually 
missed it because walking the roof and the scan time didnt grab it) 

 

there was  a marginal spot we considered, this would have been bad long term.

 

we went through migrating a few hundred customers off 320 to EPMp the last few 
months, this would have been a godsend, half of them will need to be revisited 
in spring when leaves come out, but we were pressing to clear 320 to make room 
for 450 cbrs stuff

 

your installer can walk out the door each morning with a picture and have a 
best location target, install survey times will be minimized and youll know 
youre well beyond first good spot, and on the probably best spot.

 

I dont come across a product im this excited about too often. If I had the time 
id go look at the last years NLOS and see where we missed revenue options. And 
this is just IDENTIFY the other two components are crazy perfect too

 

like anything, youll need to know how to look at the data, and its only as good 
as the data you put in, I think we are all familiar with that here.

 

This is nowhere near free, but i think abut how much less I can do on my Access 
points because of marginal installs, and how much we have lost in NLOS that 
didnt need to be


  _  


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CNHeat

[Steve Jones]

Thanks

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 4:04 PM John Seaman via AF  wrote:

> Here is a really good youtube demo of cnHeat, presented by a wisp
> operator, Joseph Glende of Hiawatha Broadband:
>
>
> https://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t5/cnHeat/Joseph-Glende-of-Hiawatha-Broadband-Shares-How-cnHeat-Helping/td-p/116220
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Brian Webster
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:08 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>
>
>
> What data are they using to model the trees?
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 24, 2020 1:22 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>
>
>
> In your land of deserts and plains overlooked by mountains you might not
> need to pay for CnHeat.
>
> In lands where trees grow CnHeat is free.  Paid for by the new customers
> and time saved.
>
> It's not a statistical Langley-Rice prediction like Radio Mobile.
> Obstructions are treated like an impenetrable wall, but they have 3D models
> of every damn tree and building.  Like Steve says, it can light up the
> exact spot on the house where the SM needs to go to get line of sight.
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> On 3/24/2020 1:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> What does it cost?  More than Radio Mobile...?
>
>
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:04 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] CNHeat
>
>
>
> I dont know if many of you degenerates over here still do this pasky WISP
> stuff, but I am demoing CNHeat, this is a literal game changer, we took a
> no line of site this morning to install. we would have walked away, btu
> happened to have the CNHeat for the location. found the spot, great signal
> (we actually missed it because walking the roof and the scan time didnt
> grab it)
>
>
>
> there was  a marginal spot we considered, this would have been bad long
> term.
>
>
>
> we went through migrating a few hundred customers off 320 to EPMp the last
> few months, this would have been a godsend, half of them will need to be
> revisited in spring when leaves come out, but we were pressing to clear 320
> to make room for 450 cbrs stuff
>
>
>
> your installer can walk out the door each morning with a picture and have
> a best location target, install survey times will be minimized and youll
> know youre well beyond first good spot, and on the probably best spot.
>
>
>
> I dont come across a product im this excited about too often. If I had the
> time id go look at the last years NLOS and see where we missed revenue
> options. And this is just IDENTIFY the other two components are crazy
> perfect too
>
>
>
> like anything, youll need to know how to look at the data, and its only as
> good as the data you put in, I think we are all familiar with that here.
>
>
>
> This is nowhere near free, but i think abut how much less I can do on my
> Access points because of marginal installs, and how much we have lost in
> NLOS that didnt need to be
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CNHeat

[John Seaman via AF]

Here is a really good youtube demo of cnHeat, presented by a wisp operator, 
Joseph Glende of Hiawatha Broadband:
https://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t5/cnHeat/Joseph-Glende-of-Hiawatha-Broadband-Shares-How-cnHeat-Helping/td-p/116220



From: AF  On Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:08 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

What data are they using to model the trees?

Thank you,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 1:22 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat


In your land of deserts and plains overlooked by mountains you might not need 
to pay for CnHeat.

In lands where trees grow CnHeat is free.  Paid for by the new customers and 
time saved.

It's not a statistical Langley-Rice prediction like Radio Mobile.  Obstructions 
are treated like an impenetrable wall, but they have 3D models of every damn 
tree and building.  Like Steve says, it can light up the exact spot on the 
house where the SM needs to go to get line of sight.

-Adam




On 3/24/2020 1:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
What does it cost?  More than Radio Mobile...?

From: Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:04 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: [AFMUG] CNHeat

I dont know if many of you degenerates over here still do this pasky WISP 
stuff, but I am demoing CNHeat, this is a literal game changer, we took a no 
line of site this morning to install. we would have walked away, btu happened 
to have the CNHeat for the location. found the spot, great signal (we actually 
missed it because walking the roof and the scan time didnt grab it)

there was  a marginal spot we considered, this would have been bad long term.

we went through migrating a few hundred customers off 320 to EPMp the last few 
months, this would have been a godsend, half of them will need to be revisited 
in spring when leaves come out, but we were pressing to clear 320 to make room 
for 450 cbrs stuff

your installer can walk out the door each morning with a picture and have a 
best location target, install survey times will be minimized and youll know 
youre well beyond first good spot, and on the probably best spot.

I dont come across a product im this excited about too often. If I had the time 
id go look at the last years NLOS and see where we missed revenue options. And 
this is just IDENTIFY the other two components are crazy perfect too

like anything, youll need to know how to look at the data, and its only as good 
as the data you put in, I think we are all familiar with that here.

This is nowhere near free, but i think abut how much less I can do on my Access 
points because of marginal installs, and how much we have lost in NLOS that 
didnt need to be

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Steve Jones]

so you dont trust chinas health numbers, but you do trust chinas mobile
numbers? please provide a link to the related links to documentation of the
10 million lines dropped


On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 3:15 PM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> Regarding the China numbers... there are 3 Chinese mobile telephone
> companies, all owned by the government.
>
> In February, they reported a TOTAL (all 3) loss of 10 million + lines.
> Now, you can attribute some of those to job loss... but not all of them.
>
> Deaths?  I suspect the death count in China is massively underreported.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Adam Moffett]

Source for this info?

On 3/24/2020 4:14 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
Regarding the China numbers... there are 3 Chinese mobile telephone 
companies, all owned by the government.


In February, they reported a TOTAL (all 3) loss of 10 million + lines.
Now, you can attribute some of those to job loss... but not all of them.

Deaths?  I suspect the death count in China is massively underreported.



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Matt Hoppes]

Regarding the China numbers... there are 3 Chinese mobile telephone 
companies, all owned by the government.


In February, they reported a TOTAL (all 3) loss of 10 million + lines.
Now, you can attribute some of those to job loss... but not all of them.

Deaths?  I suspect the death count in China is massively underreported.

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Matt Hoppes]

They shot their one and only infected person.

On 3/19/20 2:37 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I still believe North Korea has a huge problem that they are covering 
up.  Especially in the labor camps.  Communal sleeping barns etc.  No 
sanitation facilities.

*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 12:34 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

Only if they attribute it properly. There is plenty of data to indicate 
that deaths have been incorrectly attributed,


bp


On 3/19/2020 11:09 AM, James Howard wrote:

the death count is the death count



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Steve Jones]

If this were true, I would have died from the common cold years ago

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 2:26 PM Robert  wrote:

> Heavy drinking lowers your immunity...  fact.
>
> On 3/24/20 12:14 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> It's because they're constantly soaked in Vodka
> On 3/24/2020 3:07 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
>
> They were interviewing someone from the Russian Health Ministry (or
> something like that) on NPR yesterday. The person stated that Russia had a
> natural immunity to this virus because they are so sparsely populated and
> people don't travel much.
>
> That said, 90% of their population is in a very few cities, and I think
> that a lot of people come & go from Russia (those cities). But I'm no
> expert. I still think it's pretty odd that they've only recorded one corona
> death. The NPR person speculated that the actual corona deaths were just
> being recorded as "pneumonia". The Russian official disputed that.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 3/20/2020 12:58 PM, Robert wrote:
>
> i.e. 80% unreported unless you are someone famous or very rich...   Sounds
> like that doctor that was saying over 50K cases in the US four days ago was
> spot on...
>
> On 3/20/20 10:52 AM, Craig Baird wrote:
>
> Based on recent experience, I don't think the published infection rates
> are anywhere close to accurate.  Why do I say that?  My 10 yo. daughter
> came down with something yesterday morning.  She came in our bedroom
> coughing, wheezing and short of breath.  She had a low-grade fever around
> 100.  We have several kids with asthma, so we gave her a breathing
> treatment using a nebulizer with albuterol sulfate.  Then we called our
> local clinic to see if we could get her into a doctor.  After telling the
> attendant about the situation, instead of making an appointment, she
> referred us to a Utah state COVID-19 hotline.  We called that hotline, and
> repeated the symptoms.  That person told us that due because test kits are
> in short supply, unless there is severe illness, they are telling everyone
> who calls to simply self-quarantine, and call back if things get worse.
>
> How can you rely on any infection statistics if they're only sampling
> those that are severely affected?  It's obvious to me that the published
> statistics don't represent the number of people infected.  Rather, they
> represent the number of severely ill people who are infected.  Those with
> mild illness are not being included in the data.  At least in Utah.
>
> Craig
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 8:34 AM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> So far population infection rates haven't hit more than 1 percent
>> anywhere have they
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 12:07 AM Kurt Fankhauser 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm on the county health board here, they are extremely worried about
>>> what is to come. They say the "peak" and "flattening" isn't expected till
>>> Mid May. They have not released that to the public yet because they don't
>>> want to create panic but sounds like this lockdown could be a new way of
>>> life for at least a few months. They are also talking about the possibility
>>> of refrigerated semi trailers for the dead bodies if they get that many.
>>> Our county population is over 40,000 and between the two hospitals here
>>> they have only 8 ventilators. If just one half of 1 percent of the
>>> population here needs critical care that is over 200 people. The two
>>> hospitals here are only setup for a couple dozen ICU beds each.
>>> Traditionally trauma patients that come in here are forwarded to one of the
>>> bigger cities which will not be an option due to overstretched resources in
>>> the bigger cities and them having even bigger problems than us. Consider
>>> that some of the data suggests 10-20% of the infected will need
>>> hospitalized you start to grasp the real threat to the healthcare system.
>>> Trump knows all this, he was probably briefed with the numbers over a month
>>> ago. He would not be tanking the economy right now if this wasn't a real
>>> threat of happening. If it wasn't for the travel ban we would probably be
>>> right there with Italy as we speak...
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 12:21 AM Mathew Howard 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 It's especially bad when revolting people revolt...

 On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 11:01 PM Jason McKemie <
 j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> People are revolting, but they will start to revolt...
>
> On Thursday, March 19, 2020, James Howard  wrote:
>
>> are you saying that you're not revolting now?   Makes me think of the
>> 3 Stooges line "I resemble that remark"..
>>
>> Oh wait.  Did you mean that people will start to revolt?  Hmmm  I
>> thought you meant people were going to be revolting and most people 
>> already
>> are.
>> --
>> *From:* AF  on behalf of Jason McKemie <
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 8:37:51 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Adam Moffett]

90% of sarcasm is lost when delivered in text form ... fact.

On 3/24/2020 3:25 PM, Robert wrote:

Heavy drinking lowers your immunity...  fact.

On 3/24/20 12:14 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:


It's because they're constantly soaked in Vodka

On 3/24/2020 3:07 PM, Bill Prince wrote:



They were interviewing someone from the Russian Health Ministry (or 
something like that) on NPR yesterday. The person stated that Russia 
had a natural immunity to this virus because they are so sparsely 
populated and people don't travel much.


That said, 90% of their population is in a very few cities, and I 
think that a lot of people come & go from Russia (those cities). But 
I'm no expert. I still think it's pretty odd that they've only 
recorded one corona death. The NPR person speculated that the actual 
corona deaths were just being recorded as "pneumonia". The Russian 
official disputed that.



bp


On 3/20/2020 12:58 PM, Robert wrote:
i.e. 80% unreported unless you are someone famous or very rich...   
Sounds like that doctor that was saying over 50K cases in the US 
four days ago was spot on...


On 3/20/20 10:52 AM, Craig Baird wrote:
Based on recent experience, I don't think the published infection 
rates are anywhere close to accurate.  Why do I say that?  My 10 
yo. daughter came down with something yesterday morning.  She came 
in our bedroom coughing, wheezing and short of breath.  She had a 
low-grade fever around 100.  We have several kids with asthma, so 
we gave her a breathing treatment using a nebulizer with albuterol 
sulfate.  Then we called our local clinic to see if we could get 
her into a doctor. After telling the attendant about the 
situation, instead of making an appointment, she referred us to a 
Utah state COVID-19 hotline.  We called that hotline, and repeated 
the symptoms.  That person told us that due because test kits are 
in short supply, unless there is severe illness, they are telling 
everyone who calls to simply self-quarantine, and call back if 
things get worse.


How can you rely on any infection statistics if they're only 
sampling those that are severely affected?  It's obvious to me 
that the published statistics don't represent the number of people 
infected.  Rather, they represent the number of severely ill 
people who are infected.  Those with mild illness are not being 
included in the data.  At least in Utah.


Craig


On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 8:34 AM Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:


So far population infection rates haven't hit more than 1
percent anywhere have they

On Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 12:07 AM Kurt Fankhauser
mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

I'm on the county health board here, they are
extremely worried about what is to come. They say the
"peak" and "flattening" isn't expected till Mid May. They
have not released that to the public yet because they
don't want to create panic but sounds like this lockdown
could be a new way of life for at least a few months. They
are also talking about the possibility of
refrigerated semi trailers for the dead bodies if they get
that many. Our county population is over 40,000 and
between the two hospitals here they have only 8
ventilators. If just one half of 1 percent of the
population here needs critical care that is over 200
people. The two hospitals here are only setup for a couple
dozen ICU beds each. Traditionally trauma patients that
come in here are forwarded to one of the bigger cities
which will not be an option due to overstretched resources
in the bigger cities and them having even bigger problems
than us. Consider that some of the data suggests 10-20% of
the infected will need hospitalized you start to grasp the
real threat to the healthcare system. Trump knows all
this, he was probably briefed with the numbers over a
month ago. He would not be tanking the economy right now
if this wasn't a real threat of happening. If it wasn't
for the travel ban we would probably be right there with
Italy as we speak...

On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 12:21 AM Mathew Howard
mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:

It's especially bad when revolting people revolt...

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 11:01 PM Jason McKemie
mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>> wrote:

People are revolting, but they will start to revolt...

On Thursday, March 19, 2020, James Howard
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>>
wrote:

are you saying that you're not revolting now? 
 Makes me think of the 3 Stooges line "I
resemble that remark"..

Oh wait.  Did you mean that people will start
to revolt? Hmmm  I thought 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Robert]

Heavy drinking lowers your immunity...  fact.

On 3/24/20 12:14 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:


It's because they're constantly soaked in Vodka

On 3/24/2020 3:07 PM, Bill Prince wrote:



They were interviewing someone from the Russian Health Ministry (or 
something like that) on NPR yesterday. The person stated that Russia 
had a natural immunity to this virus because they are so sparsely 
populated and people don't travel much.


That said, 90% of their population is in a very few cities, and I 
think that a lot of people come & go from Russia (those cities). But 
I'm no expert. I still think it's pretty odd that they've only 
recorded one corona death. The NPR person speculated that the actual 
corona deaths were just being recorded as "pneumonia". The Russian 
official disputed that.



bp


On 3/20/2020 12:58 PM, Robert wrote:
i.e. 80% unreported unless you are someone famous or very rich...   
Sounds like that doctor that was saying over 50K cases in the US 
four days ago was spot on...


On 3/20/20 10:52 AM, Craig Baird wrote:
Based on recent experience, I don't think the published infection 
rates are anywhere close to accurate. Why do I say that?  My 10 yo. 
daughter came down with something yesterday morning.  She came in 
our bedroom coughing, wheezing and short of breath.  She had a 
low-grade fever around 100.  We have several kids with asthma, so 
we gave her a breathing treatment using a nebulizer with albuterol 
sulfate.  Then we called our local clinic to see if we could get 
her into a doctor. After telling the attendant about the situation, 
instead of making an appointment, she referred us to a Utah state 
COVID-19 hotline.  We called that hotline, and repeated the 
symptoms.  That person told us that due because test kits are in 
short supply, unless there is severe illness, they are telling 
everyone who calls to simply self-quarantine, and call back if 
things get worse.


How can you rely on any infection statistics if they're only 
sampling those that are severely affected? It's obvious to me that 
the published statistics don't represent the number of people 
infected.  Rather, they represent the number of severely ill people 
who are infected.  Those with mild illness are not being included 
in the data.  At least in Utah.


Craig


On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 8:34 AM Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:


So far population infection rates haven't hit more than 1
percent anywhere have they

On Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 12:07 AM Kurt Fankhauser
mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I'm on the county health board here, they are
extremely worried about what is to come. They say the
"peak" and "flattening" isn't expected till Mid May. They
have not released that to the public yet because they don't
want to create panic but sounds like this lockdown could be
a new way of life for at least a few months. They are also
talking about the possibility of refrigerated semi trailers
for the dead bodies if they get that many. Our county
population is over 40,000 and between the two hospitals
here they have only 8 ventilators. If just one half of 1
percent of the population here needs critical care that is
over 200 people. The two hospitals here are only setup for
a couple dozen ICU beds each. Traditionally trauma patients
that come in here are forwarded to one of the bigger cities
which will not be an option due to overstretched resources
in the bigger cities and them having even bigger problems
than us. Consider that some of the data suggests 10-20% of
the infected will need hospitalized you start to grasp the
real threat to the healthcare system. Trump knows all this,
he was probably briefed with the numbers over a month ago.
He would not be tanking the economy right now if this
wasn't a real threat of happening. If it wasn't for the
travel ban we would probably be right there with Italy as
we speak...

On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 12:21 AM Mathew Howard
mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:

It's especially bad when revolting people revolt...

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 11:01 PM Jason McKemie
mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>> wrote:

People are revolting, but they will start to revolt...

On Thursday, March 19, 2020, James Howard
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

are you saying that you're not revolting now? 
 Makes me think of the 3 Stooges line "I
resemble that remark"..

Oh wait.  Did you mean that people will start
to revolt? Hmmm  I thought you meant people
were going to be revolting and most people
already are.
  

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Bill Prince]

  
  
120 proof.


bp



On 3/24/2020 12:14 PM, Adam Moffett
  wrote:


  
  It's because they're constantly soaked in Vodka
  
  On 3/24/2020 3:07 PM, Bill Prince
wrote:
  
  



They were interviewing someone from the Russian Health
  Ministry (or something like that) on NPR yesterday. The person
  stated that Russia had a natural immunity to this virus
  because they are so sparsely populated and people don't travel
  much.
That said, 90% of their population is in a very few cities,
  and I think that a lot of people come & go from Russia
  (those cities). But I'm no expert. I still think it's pretty
  odd that they've only recorded one corona death. The NPR
  person speculated that the actual corona deaths were just
  being recorded as "pneumonia". The Russian official disputed
  that.


bp



On 3/20/2020 12:58 PM, Robert
  wrote:


  
  i.e. 80% unreported unless you are someone famous or very
rich...   Sounds like that doctor that was saying over 50K
cases in the US four days ago was spot on...
  
  On 3/20/20 10:52 AM, Craig Baird
wrote:
  
  

Based on recent experience, I don't think the
  published infection rates are anywhere close to accurate. 
  Why do I say that?  My 10 yo. daughter came down with
  something yesterday morning.  She came in our bedroom
  coughing, wheezing and short of breath.  She had a
  low-grade fever around 100.  We have several kids with
  asthma, so we gave her a breathing treatment using a
  nebulizer with albuterol sulfate.  Then we called our
  local clinic to see if we could get her into a doctor. 
  After telling the attendant about the situation, instead
  of making an appointment, she referred us to a Utah state
  COVID-19 hotline.  We called that hotline, and repeated
  the symptoms.  That person told us that due because test
  kits are in short supply, unless there is severe illness,
  they are telling everyone who calls to simply
  self-quarantine, and call back if things get worse.
  
  
  How can you rely on any infection statistics if
they're only sampling those that are severely affected? 
It's obvious to me that the published statistics don't
represent the number of people infected.  Rather, they
represent the number of severely ill people who are
infected.  Those with mild illness are not being
included in the data.  At least in Utah.
  
  
  Craig
  
  



  On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at
8:34 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:
  
  
So far population infection rates
  haven't hit more than 1 percent anywhere have they 


  On Fri, Mar 20,
2020, 12:07 AM Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:
  
  
I'm on the county health board here,
  they are extremely worried about what is to come.
  They say the "peak" and "flattening" isn't
  expected till Mid May. They have not released that
  to the public yet because they don't want to
  create panic but sounds like this lockdown could
  be a new way of life for at least a few months.
  They are also talking about the possibility of
  refrigerated semi trailers for the dead bodies if
  they get that many. Our county population is over
  40,000 and between the two hospitals here they
  have only 8 ventilators. If just one half of 1
  percent of the population here needs critical care
  that is over 200 people. The two hospitals here
  are only setup for a couple dozen ICU beds each.
  Traditionally trauma patients that come in here
  are forwarded to one of the bigger cities which
  will not be an option due to overstretched
  resources in the bigger cities and them having
  even bigger problems than us. Consider that some
  

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Adam Moffett]

It's because they're constantly soaked in Vodka

On 3/24/2020 3:07 PM, Bill Prince wrote:



They were interviewing someone from the Russian Health Ministry (or 
something like that) on NPR yesterday. The person stated that Russia 
had a natural immunity to this virus because they are so sparsely 
populated and people don't travel much.


That said, 90% of their population is in a very few cities, and I 
think that a lot of people come & go from Russia (those cities). But 
I'm no expert. I still think it's pretty odd that they've only 
recorded one corona death. The NPR person speculated that the actual 
corona deaths were just being recorded as "pneumonia". The Russian 
official disputed that.



bp


On 3/20/2020 12:58 PM, Robert wrote:
i.e. 80% unreported unless you are someone famous or very rich...   
Sounds like that doctor that was saying over 50K cases in the US four 
days ago was spot on...


On 3/20/20 10:52 AM, Craig Baird wrote:
Based on recent experience, I don't think the published infection 
rates are anywhere close to accurate. Why do I say that?  My 10 yo. 
daughter came down with something yesterday morning.  She came in 
our bedroom coughing, wheezing and short of breath.  She had a 
low-grade fever around 100.  We have several kids with asthma, so we 
gave her a breathing treatment using a nebulizer with albuterol 
sulfate.  Then we called our local clinic to see if we could get her 
into a doctor.  After telling the attendant about the situation, 
instead of making an appointment, she referred us to a Utah state 
COVID-19 hotline.  We called that hotline, and repeated the 
symptoms.  That person told us that due because test kits are in 
short supply, unless there is severe illness, they are telling 
everyone who calls to simply self-quarantine, and call back if 
things get worse.


How can you rely on any infection statistics if they're only 
sampling those that are severely affected?  It's obvious to me that 
the published statistics don't represent the number of people 
infected.  Rather, they represent the number of severely ill people 
who are infected.  Those with mild illness are not being included in 
the data.  At least in Utah.


Craig


On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 8:34 AM Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:


So far population infection rates haven't hit more than 1
percent anywhere have they

On Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 12:07 AM Kurt Fankhauser
mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I'm on the county health board here, they are
extremely worried about what is to come. They say the "peak"
and "flattening" isn't expected till Mid May. They have not
released that to the public yet because they don't want to
create panic but sounds like this lockdown could be a new
way of life for at least a few months. They are also talking
about the possibility of refrigerated semi trailers for the
dead bodies if they get that many. Our county population is
over 40,000 and between the two hospitals here they have
only 8 ventilators. If just one half of 1 percent of the
population here needs critical care that is over 200 people.
The two hospitals here are only setup for a couple dozen ICU
beds each. Traditionally trauma patients that come in here
are forwarded to one of the bigger cities which will not be
an option due to overstretched resources in the bigger
cities and them having even bigger problems than us.
Consider that some of the data suggests 10-20% of the
infected will need hospitalized you start to grasp the real
threat to the healthcare system. Trump knows all this, he
was probably briefed with the numbers over a month ago. He
would not be tanking the economy right now if this wasn't a
real threat of happening. If it wasn't for the travel ban we
would probably be right there with Italy as we speak...

On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 12:21 AM Mathew Howard
mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:

It's especially bad when revolting people revolt...

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 11:01 PM Jason McKemie
mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>> wrote:

People are revolting, but they will start to revolt...

On Thursday, March 19, 2020, James Howard
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

are you saying that you're not revolting now? 
 Makes me think of the 3 Stooges line "I
resemble that remark"..

Oh wait.  Did you mean that people will start to
revolt?  Hmmm  I thought you meant people
were going to be revolting and most people
already are.


   

Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Bill Prince]

  
  


They were interviewing someone from the Russian Health Ministry
  (or something like that) on NPR yesterday. The person stated that
  Russia had a natural immunity to this virus because they are so
  sparsely populated and people don't travel much.
That said, 90% of their population is in a very few cities, and I
  think that a lot of people come & go from Russia (those
  cities). But I'm no expert. I still think it's pretty odd that
  they've only recorded one corona death. The NPR person speculated
  that the actual corona deaths were just being recorded as
  "pneumonia". The Russian official disputed that.


bp



On 3/20/2020 12:58 PM, Robert wrote:


  
  i.e. 80% unreported unless you are someone famous or very
rich...   Sounds like that doctor that was saying over 50K cases
in the US four days ago was spot on...
  
  On 3/20/20 10:52 AM, Craig Baird
wrote:
  
  

Based on recent experience, I don't think the
  published infection rates are anywhere close to accurate.  Why
  do I say that?  My 10 yo. daughter came down with something
  yesterday morning.  She came in our bedroom coughing, wheezing
  and short of breath.  She had a low-grade fever around 100. 
  We have several kids with asthma, so we gave her a breathing
  treatment using a nebulizer with albuterol sulfate.  Then we
  called our local clinic to see if we could get her into a
  doctor.  After telling the attendant about the situation,
  instead of making an appointment, she referred us to a Utah
  state COVID-19 hotline.  We called that hotline, and repeated
  the symptoms.  That person told us that due because test kits
  are in short supply, unless there is severe illness, they are
  telling everyone who calls to simply self-quarantine, and call
  back if things get worse.
  
  
  How can you rely on any infection statistics if they're
only sampling those that are severely affected?  It's
obvious to me that the published statistics don't represent
the number of people infected.  Rather, they represent the
number of severely ill people who are infected.  Those with
mild illness are not being included in the data.  At least
in Utah.
  
  
  Craig
  
  



  On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 8:34
AM Steve Jones 
wrote:
  
  
So far population infection rates haven't
  hit more than 1 percent anywhere have they 


  On Fri, Mar 20, 2020,
12:07 AM Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:
  
  
I'm on the county health board here, they
  are extremely worried about what is to come. They say
  the "peak" and "flattening" isn't expected till Mid
  May. They have not released that to the public yet
  because they don't want to create panic but sounds
  like this lockdown could be a new way of life for at
  least a few months. They are also talking about the
  possibility of refrigerated semi trailers for the dead
  bodies if they get that many. Our county population is
  over 40,000 and between the two hospitals here they
  have only 8 ventilators. If just one half of 1 percent
  of the population here needs critical care that is
  over 200 people. The two hospitals here are only setup
  for a couple dozen ICU beds each. Traditionally trauma
  patients that come in here are forwarded to one of the
  bigger cities which will not be an option due to
  overstretched resources in the bigger cities and them
  having even bigger problems than us. Consider that
  some of the data suggests 10-20% of the infected will
  need hospitalized you start to grasp the real threat
  to the healthcare system. Trump knows all this, he was
  probably briefed with the numbers over a month ago. He
  would not be tanking the economy right now if this
  wasn't a real threat of happening. If it wasn't for
  the travel ban we would probably be right there with
  Italy as we speak...


  On Fri, Mar 20, 2020
at 12:21 AM Mathew Howard 
wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

[Steve Jones]

Our LIDAR data is fairly recent, it is dependent on that... see how I talk
about LIDAR like a champ now because of that previous thread. He was able
to tell me when it was obtained, and apparently our area was easy to get,
the CNHeat guy knows way more about all that than I do.
Showing this to the boss and talking about it from the owners perspective,
he sees it as a valuable investment for a multitude of resent up to
presales. thats a pretty tall glass to have filled that quickly

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 12:26 PM  wrote:

> I hope this proves to be true for all the data points it discovers.  I
> don’t doubt Steve’s experience, but it is one data point so far.
> If this works well it will be a hugely valuable tool.
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:21 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat
>
>
> In your land of deserts and plains overlooked by mountains you might not
> need to pay for CnHeat.
>
> In lands where trees grow CnHeat is free.  Paid for by the new customers
> and time saved.
>
> It's not a statistical Langley-Rice prediction like Radio Mobile.
> Obstructions are treated like an impenetrable wall, but they have 3D models
> of every damn tree and building.  Like Steve says, it can light up the
> exact spot on the house where the SM needs to go to get line of sight.
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
> On 3/24/2020 1:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> What does it cost?  More than Radio Mobile...?
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:04 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] CNHeat
>
> I dont know if many of you degenerates over here still do this pasky WISP
> stuff, but I am demoing CNHeat, this is a literal game changer, we took a
> no line of site this morning to install. we would have walked away, btu
> happened to have the CNHeat for the location. found the spot, great signal
> (we actually missed it because walking the roof and the scan time didnt
> grab it)
>
> there was  a marginal spot we considered, this would have been bad long
> term.
>
> we went through migrating a few hundred customers off 320 to EPMp the last
> few months, this would have been a godsend, half of them will need to be
> revisited in spring when leaves come out, but we were pressing to clear 320
> to make room for 450 cbrs stuff
>
> your installer can walk out the door each morning with a picture and have
> a best location target, install survey times will be minimized and youll
> know youre well beyond first good spot, and on the probably best spot.
>
> I dont come across a product im this excited about too often. If I had the
> time id go look at the last years NLOS and see where we missed revenue
> options. And this is just IDENTIFY the other two components are crazy
> perfect too
>
> like anything, youll need to know how to look at the data, and its only as
> good as the data you put in, I think we are all familiar with that here.
>
> This is nowhere near free, but i think abut how much less I can do on my
> Access points because of marginal installs, and how much we have lost in
> NLOS that didnt need to be
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: From our kitchen to yours

[Jaime Solorza]

Never tried that...maybe on Friday...

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 12:33 PM  wrote:

> At least I got a homemade shrimp quesadilla this morning...
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:40 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: From our kitchen to yours
>
> Chilaquiles y huevo..
> Corn tortillas, cheese, enchilada sauce, cooking oil...(optional- white
> onion , we didn't use this time.)
>
> Cut tortillas into small chunks, cook in oil for a bit, pour in sauce,
> cook for a bit, add freshly graded cheese...cook until cheese melts a bit,
> serve with eggs of your choice.  Add cheese..
> Voila.
> Enjoy and peace
> Later this afternoon, Caldo Tlapeno
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Looking for a wisp

[dave]

yES! I Believe you are it..


On 3/24/20 1:27 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Looking for a wisp That fits my description, what's up?


--
Best regards,
Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com 

--

Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 12:47:38 PM, you wrote:


Hey to the borg!
Does anyone know the Fiber company in florida that has won a few 
grants for doing fiber. For the life of me cannot remember his name 
but I would see him at wispapalooza every year and I think he was at 
an Animal farm show as well.

Thank you

--




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: From our kitchen to yours

[chuck]

At least I got a homemade shrimp quesadilla this morning...

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:40 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: From our kitchen to yours

Chilaquiles y huevo.. 
Corn tortillas, cheese, enchilada sauce, cooking oil...(optional- white onion , 
we didn't use this time.)

Cut tortillas into small chunks, cook in oil for a bit, pour in sauce, cook for 
a bit, add freshly graded cheese...cook until cheese melts a bit, serve with 
eggs of your choice.  Add cheese..
Voila.
Enjoy and peace
Later this afternoon, Caldo Tlapeno



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Looking for a wisp

[Mike Hammett]

What an unfortunate typo... 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Mike Hammett"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 1:18:58 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Looking for a wisp 


Mark Myakkka (or something like that)? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "dave"  
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:47:38 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Looking for a wisp 

Hey to the borg! 
Does anyone know the Fiber company in florida that has won a few grants for 
doing fiber. For the life of me cannot remember his name but I would see him at 
wispapalooza every year and I think he was at an Animal farm show as well. 
Thank you 


-- 

-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 


-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Looking for a wisp

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Title: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Looking for a wisp


That fits my description, what's up?


--
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com

--

Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 12:47:38 PM, you wrote:





Hey to the borg!
Does anyone know the Fiber company in florida that has won a few grants for doing fiber. For the life of me cannot remember his name but I would see him at wispapalooza every year and I think he was at an Animal farm show as well. 
Thank you 

-- 



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Looking for a wisp

[Mike Hammett]

Mark Myakkka (or something like that)? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "dave"  
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:47:38 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Looking for a wisp 

Hey to the borg! 
Does anyone know the Fiber company in florida that has won a few grants for 
doing fiber. For the life of me cannot remember his name but I would see him at 
wispapalooza every year and I think he was at an Animal farm show as well. 
Thank you 


-- 

-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] CNHeat

[Ray Savich via AF]

Sounds great Steve – can you post your story and photos/screen shots to the 
Cambium Community?
http://community.cambiumnetworks.com/

Thanks
Ray

[cid:image002.jpg@01D601DE.2459A2F0]

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [ External ] [AFMUG] CNHeat

I dont know if many of you degenerates over here still do this pasky WISP 
stuff, but I am demoing CNHeat, this is a literal game changer, we took a no 
line of site this morning to install. we would have walked away, btu happened 
to have the CNHeat for the location. found the spot, great signal (we actually 
missed it because walking the roof and the scan time didnt grab it)

there was  a marginal spot we considered, this would have been bad long term.

we went through migrating a few hundred customers off 320 to EPMp the last few 
months, this would have been a godsend, half of them will need to be revisited 
in spring when leaves come out, but we were pressing to clear 320 to make room 
for 450 cbrs stuff

your installer can walk out the door each morning with a picture and have a 
best location target, install survey times will be minimized and youll know 
youre well beyond first good spot, and on the probably best spot.

I dont come across a product im this excited about too often. If I had the time 
id go look at the last years NLOS and see where we missed revenue options. And 
this is just IDENTIFY the other two components are crazy perfect too

like anything, youll need to know how to look at the data, and its only as good 
as the data you put in, I think we are all familiar with that here.

This is nowhere near free, but i think abut how much less I can do on my Access 
points because of marginal installs, and how much we have lost in NLOS that 
didnt need to be
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

[Brian Webster]

What data are they using to model the trees?

 

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 1:22 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

 

In your land of deserts and plains overlooked by mountains you might not need 
to pay for CnHeat.  

In lands where trees grow CnHeat is free.  Paid for by the new customers and 
time saved. 

It's not a statistical Langley-Rice prediction like Radio Mobile.  Obstructions 
are treated like an impenetrable wall, but they have 3D models of every damn 
tree and building.  Like Steve says, it can light up the exact spot on the 
house where the SM needs to go to get line of sight.

-Adam

 

 

On 3/24/2020 1:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

What does it cost?  More than Radio Mobile...?

 

From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:04 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: [AFMUG] CNHeat

 

I dont know if many of you degenerates over here still do this pasky WISP 
stuff, but I am demoing CNHeat, this is a literal game changer, we took a no 
line of site this morning to install. we would have walked away, btu happened 
to have the CNHeat for the location. found the spot, great signal (we actually 
missed it because walking the roof and the scan time didnt grab it) 

 

there was  a marginal spot we considered, this would have been bad long term.

 

we went through migrating a few hundred customers off 320 to EPMp the last few 
months, this would have been a godsend, half of them will need to be revisited 
in spring when leaves come out, but we were pressing to clear 320 to make room 
for 450 cbrs stuff

 

your installer can walk out the door each morning with a picture and have a 
best location target, install survey times will be minimized and youll know 
youre well beyond first good spot, and on the probably best spot.

 

I dont come across a product im this excited about too often. If I had the time 
id go look at the last years NLOS and see where we missed revenue options. And 
this is just IDENTIFY the other two components are crazy perfect too

 

like anything, youll need to know how to look at the data, and its only as good 
as the data you put in, I think we are all familiar with that here.

 

This is nowhere near free, but i think abut how much less I can do on my Access 
points because of marginal installs, and how much we have lost in NLOS that 
didnt need to be


  _  


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

[chuck]

I hope this proves to be true for all the data points it discovers.  I don’t 
doubt Steve’s experience, but it is one data point so far.
If this works well it will be a hugely valuable tool.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:21 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

In your land of deserts and plains overlooked by mountains you might not need 
to pay for CnHeat.  

In lands where trees grow CnHeat is free.  Paid for by the new customers and 
time saved. 


It's not a statistical Langley-Rice prediction like Radio Mobile.  Obstructions 
are treated like an impenetrable wall, but they have 3D models of every damn 
tree and building.  Like Steve says, it can light up the exact spot on the 
house where the SM needs to go to get line of sight.

-Adam





On 3/24/2020 1:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  What does it cost?  More than Radio Mobile...?

  From: Steve Jones 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:04 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: [AFMUG] CNHeat

  I dont know if many of you degenerates over here still do this pasky WISP 
stuff, but I am demoing CNHeat, this is a literal game changer, we took a no 
line of site this morning to install. we would have walked away, btu happened 
to have the CNHeat for the location. found the spot, great signal (we actually 
missed it because walking the roof and the scan time didnt grab it) 

  there was  a marginal spot we considered, this would have been bad long term.

  we went through migrating a few hundred customers off 320 to EPMp the last 
few months, this would have been a godsend, half of them will need to be 
revisited in spring when leaves come out, but we were pressing to clear 320 to 
make room for 450 cbrs stuff

  your installer can walk out the door each morning with a picture and have a 
best location target, install survey times will be minimized and youll know 
youre well beyond first good spot, and on the probably best spot.

  I dont come across a product im this excited about too often. If I had the 
time id go look at the last years NLOS and see where we missed revenue options. 
And this is just IDENTIFY the other two components are crazy perfect too

  like anything, youll need to know how to look at the data, and its only as 
good as the data you put in, I think we are all familiar with that here.

  This is nowhere near free, but i think abut how much less I can do on my 
Access points because of marginal installs, and how much we have lost in NLOS 
that didnt need to be

--
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


   



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

[Adam Moffett]

In your land of deserts and plains overlooked by mountains you might not 
need to pay for CnHeat.


In lands where trees grow CnHeat is free.  Paid for by the new customers 
and time saved.


It's not a statistical Langley-Rice prediction like Radio Mobile.  
Obstructions are treated like an impenetrable wall, but they have 3D 
models of every damn tree and building.  Like Steve says, it can light 
up the exact spot on the house where the SM needs to go to get line of 
sight.


-Adam



On 3/24/2020 1:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

What does it cost?  More than Radio Mobile...?
*From:* Steve Jones
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:04 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* [AFMUG] CNHeat
I dont know if many of you degenerates over here still do this pasky 
WISP stuff, but I am demoing CNHeat, this is a literal game changer, 
we took a no line of site this morning to install. we would have 
walked away, btu happened to have the CNHeat for the location. found 
the spot, great signal (we actually missed it because walking the roof 
and the scan time didnt grab it)
there was  a marginal spot we considered, this would have been bad 
long term.
we went through migrating a few hundred customers off 320 to EPMp the 
last few months, this would have been a godsend, half of them will 
need to be revisited in spring when leaves come out, but we were 
pressing to clear 320 to make room for 450 cbrs stuff
your installer can walk out the door each morning with a picture and 
have a best location target, install survey times will be minimized 
and youll know youre well beyond first good spot, and on the probably 
best spot.
I dont come across a product im this excited about too often. If I had 
the time id go look at the last years NLOS and see where we missed 
revenue options. And this is just IDENTIFY the other two components 
are crazy perfect too
like anything, youll need to know how to look at the data, and its 
only as good as the data you put in, I think we are all familiar with 
that here.
This is nowhere near free, but i think abut how much less I can do on 
my Access points because of marginal installs, and how much we have 
lost in NLOS that didnt need to be



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

[Steve Jones]

much much more than free
but much much less input and much much much more output
I had the same question, and skepticism, until i saw the data and applied
it to our real world.
The way I look at it, radio mobile costs zero. A no line of site generates
zero, so thats a wash on its face. but the truck rolled and other jobs
werent done, so theres a net loss. that in itself probably scales to the
price over the course of the customer we missed.

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 12:10 PM  wrote:

> What does it cost?  More than Radio Mobile...?
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:04 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] CNHeat
>
> I dont know if many of you degenerates over here still do this pasky WISP
> stuff, but I am demoing CNHeat, this is a literal game changer, we took a
> no line of site this morning to install. we would have walked away, btu
> happened to have the CNHeat for the location. found the spot, great signal
> (we actually missed it because walking the roof and the scan time didnt
> grab it)
>
> there was  a marginal spot we considered, this would have been bad long
> term.
>
> we went through migrating a few hundred customers off 320 to EPMp the last
> few months, this would have been a godsend, half of them will need to be
> revisited in spring when leaves come out, but we were pressing to clear 320
> to make room for 450 cbrs stuff
>
> your installer can walk out the door each morning with a picture and have
> a best location target, install survey times will be minimized and youll
> know youre well beyond first good spot, and on the probably best spot.
>
> I dont come across a product im this excited about too often. If I had the
> time id go look at the last years NLOS and see where we missed revenue
> options. And this is just IDENTIFY the other two components are crazy
> perfect too
>
> like anything, youll need to know how to look at the data, and its only as
> good as the data you put in, I think we are all familiar with that here.
>
> This is nowhere near free, but i think abut how much less I can do on my
> Access points because of marginal installs, and how much we have lost in
> NLOS that didnt need to be
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CNHeat

[chuck]

What does it cost?  More than Radio Mobile...?

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:04 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] CNHeat

I dont know if many of you degenerates over here still do this pasky WISP 
stuff, but I am demoing CNHeat, this is a literal game changer, we took a no 
line of site this morning to install. we would have walked away, btu happened 
to have the CNHeat for the location. found the spot, great signal (we actually 
missed it because walking the roof and the scan time didnt grab it) 

there was  a marginal spot we considered, this would have been bad long term.

we went through migrating a few hundred customers off 320 to EPMp the last few 
months, this would have been a godsend, half of them will need to be revisited 
in spring when leaves come out, but we were pressing to clear 320 to make room 
for 450 cbrs stuff

your installer can walk out the door each morning with a picture and have a 
best location target, install survey times will be minimized and youll know 
youre well beyond first good spot, and on the probably best spot.

I dont come across a product im this excited about too often. If I had the time 
id go look at the last years NLOS and see where we missed revenue options. And 
this is just IDENTIFY the other two components are crazy perfect too

like anything, youll need to know how to look at the data, and its only as good 
as the data you put in, I think we are all familiar with that here.

This is nowhere near free, but i think abut how much less I can do on my Access 
points because of marginal installs, and how much we have lost in NLOS that 
didnt need to be



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT People

[chuck]

Didn’t notice it was a link.  

From: Carl Peterson 
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 10:36 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT People

That's from the article Lewis posted above my comment... 

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 11:33 AM  wrote:

  Several years back, NPR – possibly This American Life – had l long bit about 
a company that is paid by the Guvmnt to help people qualify for disability.  In 
other words to find any trick possible to get them on disability.  Fascinating. 
 
  Tax dollars at work.  

  Found it.  An excerpt:
  "Just out of curiosity, what is your disability?" the judge asked from the 
bench.
  "I have high blood pressure," the man said.
  "So do I," the judge said. "What else?"
  "I have diabetes."
  "So do I."

  https://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/


  From: Lewis Bergman 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 9:46 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT People

  Well, here is a great discussion on the Subject of Disability, unemployment, 
and the fleecing we are getting 
  It is an NPR article so I doubt many would call it conservatively biased. The 
fact is, when people run out of other types of programs, like welfare, they go 
straight for disability,.

  Wish I could get my wife on that train. She recently joined the ranks fo the 
unemployed due to her retail job closing shop but I can't seem to get her to 
either look for a job or file for unemployment. I have paid for unemployment 
for decades and never used it. I guess this is anecdotal study on human nature. 
Until someone experiences negative consequences they feel no need to do 
anything. Well, some people.

  On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 10:13 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

Some eligible disabilities would be very easy to fake.  Agoraphobia for 
example.  


I have no data on how prevalent such fakery really is.  Different political 
groups will tell us different stories on that...but it's certainly not hard to 
do.  


An average disability payment is $1258/month (anywhere from $800-$3000 
based on a formula with a lot of factors).  If your only income is disability 
then you probably also qualify for HEAP and SNAP.   HEAP would get you 
$375/month if you have gas heat (more for oil or propane, but presumably 
because those cost moreI wouldn't know). OR it would get you $35/month if 
you have utilities included in your rent. SNAP could provide up to $194/month 
for a single person in NY.  

If I'm a single person with an average disability payment, getting $35 from 
HEAP and $194 from SNAP then that's roughly equal to $9.29/hour.  You wouldn't 
pay income tax on that, but a person making $9/hour is getting pretty much 
everything refunded every April anywayso it's really about the same.  You 
won't live a good life, but you won't have to take any crap from The Man 
either.  


If you have a child or two you can get another few hundred from TANF, but 
TANF requires you to work and/or look for work so you have to optimize that one 
by working exactly the right amount and then get fired.  Ideally get those kids 
diagnosed with autism or some such so you can start collecting disability 
checks on their behalf toothen you don't have to worry about optimizing 
TANF anymore.  You only get 5 years of TANF, but if you can't at least one 
doctor to say your kids has a disability within 5 years then you probably 
aren't trying hard.  Medicare is paying for these doctor visits, so just keep 
going and make sure to complain about all the right symptoms.

On the one hand I have a brother with >100% disability due to injuries 
sustained in Afghanistan, so I'm not saying these programs should go away.  On 
the other hand I have an ex-sister in law who gets a disability check for her 
psychological issues, and also has 3 children diagnosed with autism, so she 
gets additional benefits for the 3 of them.   I think her real disability is 
being an unreasonable person and I think childhood autism symptoms look 
suspiciously like the standard behavior of bratty kids you aren't paying any 
attention to. 


Again, I don't know how many people like that are out there (hopefully not 
too many), but there's definitely a road-map already laid out for your friend's 
daughter to be able to live a frugal, but not uncomfortable life without having 
to work 40 hours and contribute to society.







On 3/24/2020 12:22 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

   

  a friend of a friend recently told me of a story they're having to deal 
with.  Daughter "got into a bad situation" and was offered a roof where 
relative was living in another state.  After making the "mad dash" to "rescue" 
her, she's being very difficult.  They tried to help find her a job.  She 
wasn't interested.  Had apparently been watching too much bernie sanders or 
something.  Explained the job.  Response was how dare you interrupt my private 
time.  Tell you what, i'll consider the job for no more 

Re: [AFMUG] CNMaestro Defaulting EPMP AP

[Steve Jones]

I wonder if you did them all at once if the other three coming up
disnt current draw your power source and convince the AP that the power
sequence had been triggered

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 12:03 PM dave  wrote:

> I had seen this very same thing.. What I found out was the firmware on the
> ap was in the 2.6 range and jumping to 3.56 I believe may have caused the
> hiccup.
> Not 100% on that but it was the only thing I could see that was different
> because the others had 3.15 on them
>
>
> On 3/24/20 11:56 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
>
> I have used CNMaestro before, mainly for controlling E4XX AP's, but I'm
> just starting to get back into it now for more network
> management/upgrades.  I was adding one of my EPMP sites in and upgrading
> firmware via CNMaestro.  One of the 4 AP's at a site reset itself to
> Default when the firmware updated from CNMaestro, the other 3 AP's were
> fine.  I had already manually updated the firmware to 3.5.6 so that it
> could connect to CNMaestro, so everything had been recently rebooted.  Has
> anyone seen this before?This was a batch upgrade where I told it to
> update all the AP's and SM's, and only 1 defaulted.  Now I'm a little wary
> of putting some of my bigger sites in.
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CNMaestro Defaulting EPMP AP

[Nate Burke]

It looks like you can't connect a new device to CNMaestro unless it's a 
minimum 3.5.6, so I have to manually upgrade everything to get it to 
that point to enter it in.  Interesting is that radios running 3.5.1 
that were already in CNMaestro are still connected and can be upgraded.


On 3/24/2020 12:02 PM, dave wrote:
I had seen this very same thing.. What I found out was the firmware on 
the ap was in the 2.6 range and jumping to 3.56 I believe may have 
caused the hiccup.
Not 100% on that but it was the only thing I could see that was 
different because the others had 3.15 on them



On 3/24/20 11:56 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
I have used CNMaestro before, mainly for controlling E4XX AP's, but 
I'm just starting to get back into it now for more network 
management/upgrades.  I was adding one of my EPMP sites in and 
upgrading firmware via CNMaestro.  One of the 4 AP's at a site reset 
itself to Default when the firmware updated from CNMaestro, the other 
3 AP's were fine.  I had already manually updated the firmware to 
3.5.6 so that it could connect to CNMaestro, so everything had been 
recently rebooted.  Has anyone seen this before?This was a batch 
upgrade where I told it to update all the AP's and SM's, and only 1 
defaulted.  Now I'm a little wary of putting some of my bigger sites in.








-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] CNHeat

[Steve Jones]

I dont know if many of you degenerates over here still do this pasky WISP
stuff, but I am demoing CNHeat, this is a literal game changer, we took a
no line of site this morning to install. we would have walked away, btu
happened to have the CNHeat for the location. found the spot, great signal
(we actually missed it because walking the roof and the scan time didnt
grab it)

there was  a marginal spot we considered, this would have been bad long
term.

we went through migrating a few hundred customers off 320 to EPMp the last
few months, this would have been a godsend, half of them will need to be
revisited in spring when leaves come out, but we were pressing to clear 320
to make room for 450 cbrs stuff

your installer can walk out the door each morning with a picture and have a
best location target, install survey times will be minimized and youll know
youre well beyond first good spot, and on the probably best spot.

I dont come across a product im this excited about too often. If I had the
time id go look at the last years NLOS and see where we missed revenue
options. And this is just IDENTIFY the other two components are crazy
perfect too

like anything, youll need to know how to look at the data, and its only as
good as the data you put in, I think we are all familiar with that here.

This is nowhere near free, but i think abut how much less I can do on my
Access points because of marginal installs, and how much we have lost in
NLOS that didnt need to be
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CNMaestro Defaulting EPMP AP

[dave]

I had seen this very same thing.. What I found out was the firmware on 
the ap was in the 2.6 range and jumping to 3.56 I believe may have 
caused the hiccup.
Not 100% on that but it was the only thing I could see that was 
different because the others had 3.15 on them



On 3/24/20 11:56 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
I have used CNMaestro before, mainly for controlling E4XX AP's, but 
I'm just starting to get back into it now for more network 
management/upgrades.  I was adding one of my EPMP sites in and 
upgrading firmware via CNMaestro.  One of the 4 AP's at a site reset 
itself to Default when the firmware updated from CNMaestro, the other 
3 AP's were fine.  I had already manually updated the firmware to 
3.5.6 so that it could connect to CNMaestro, so everything had been 
recently rebooted.  Has anyone seen this before?    This was a batch 
upgrade where I told it to update all the AP's and SM's, and only 1 
defaulted.  Now I'm a little wary of putting some of my bigger sites in.




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] CNMaestro Defaulting EPMP AP

[Nate Burke]

I have used CNMaestro before, mainly for controlling E4XX AP's, but I'm 
just starting to get back into it now for more network 
management/upgrades.  I was adding one of my EPMP sites in and upgrading 
firmware via CNMaestro.  One of the 4 AP's at a site reset itself to 
Default when the firmware updated from CNMaestro, the other 3 AP's were 
fine.  I had already manually updated the firmware to 3.5.6 so that it 
could connect to CNMaestro, so everything had been recently rebooted.  
Has anyone seen this before?This was a batch upgrade where I told it 
to update all the AP's and SM's, and only 1 defaulted.  Now I'm a little 
wary of putting some of my bigger sites in.


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] OT: Looking for a wisp

[dave]

Hey to the borg!
Does anyone know the Fiber company in florida that has won a few grants 
for doing fiber. For the life of me cannot remember his name but I would 
see him at wispapalooza every year and I think he was at an Animal farm 
show as well.

Thank you

--
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT People

[Carl Peterson]

That's from the article Lewis posted above my comment...

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 11:33 AM  wrote:

> Several years back, NPR – possibly This American Life – had l long bit
> about a company that is paid by the Guvmnt to help people qualify for
> disability.  In other words to find any trick possible to get them on
> disability.  Fascinating.
> Tax dollars at work.
>
> Found it.  An excerpt:
> "Just out of curiosity, what is your disability?" the judge asked from the
> bench.
> "I have high blood pressure," the man said.
> "So do I," the judge said. "What else?"
> "I have diabetes."
> "So do I."
>
> https://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/
>
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 24, 2020 9:46 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT People
>
> Well, here is a great discussion on the Subject of Disability,
> unemployment, and the fleecing we are getting
> 
> It is an NPR article so I doubt many would call it conservatively biased.
> The fact is, when people run out of other types of programs, like welfare,
> they go straight for disability,.
>
> Wish I could get my wife on that train. She recently joined the ranks fo
> the unemployed due to her retail job closing shop but I can't seem to get
> her to either look for a job or file for unemployment. I have paid for
> unemployment for decades and never used it. I guess this is anecdotal study
> on human nature. Until someone experiences negative consequences they feel
> no need to do anything. Well, some people.
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 10:13 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> Some eligible disabilities would be very easy to fake.  Agoraphobia for
>> example.
>>
>> I have no data on how prevalent such fakery really is.  Different
>> political groups will tell us different stories on that...but it's
>> certainly not hard to do.
>>
>> An average disability payment is $1258/month (anywhere from $800-$3000
>> based on a formula with a lot of factors).  If your only income is
>> disability then you probably also qualify for HEAP and SNAP.   HEAP would
>> get you $375/month if you have gas heat (more for oil or propane, but
>> presumably because those cost moreI wouldn't know). OR it would get you
>> $35/month if you have utilities included in your rent. SNAP could provide
>> up to $194/month for a single person in NY.
>>
>> If I'm a single person with an average disability payment, getting $35
>> from HEAP and $194 from SNAP then that's roughly equal to $9.29/hour.  You
>> wouldn't pay income tax on that, but a person making $9/hour is getting
>> pretty much everything refunded every April anywayso it's really about
>> the same.  You won't live a good life, but you won't have to take any crap
>> from The Man either.
>>
>> If you have a child or two you can get another few hundred from TANF, but
>> TANF requires you to work and/or look for work so you have to optimize that
>> one by working exactly the right amount and then get fired.  Ideally get
>> those kids diagnosed with autism or some such so you can start collecting
>> disability checks on their behalf toothen you don't have to worry about
>> optimizing TANF anymore.  You only get 5 years of TANF, but if you can't at
>> least one doctor to say your kids has a disability within 5 years then you
>> probably aren't trying hard.  Medicare is paying for these doctor visits,
>> so just keep going and make sure to complain about all the right symptoms.
>>
>> On the one hand I have a brother with >100% disability due to injuries
>> sustained in Afghanistan, so I'm not saying these programs should go away.
>> On the other hand I have an ex-sister in law who gets a disability check
>> for her psychological issues, and also has 3 children diagnosed with
>> autism, so she gets additional benefits for the 3 of them.   I think her
>> real disability is being an unreasonable person and I think childhood
>> autism symptoms look suspiciously like the standard behavior of bratty kids
>> you aren't paying any attention to.
>>
>> Again, I don't know how many people like that are out there (hopefully
>> not too many), but there's definitely a road-map already laid out for your
>> friend's daughter to be able to live a frugal, but not uncomfortable life
>> without having to work 40 hours and contribute to society.
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 3/24/2020 12:22 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> a friend of a friend recently told me of a story they're having to deal
>> with.  Daughter "got into a bad situation" and was offered a roof where
>> relative was living in another state.  After making the "mad dash" to
>> "rescue" her, she's being very difficult.  They tried to help find her a
>> job.  She wasn't interested.  Had apparently been watching too much bernie
>> sanders or something.  Explained the job.  Response was how dare you
>> interrupt my private time.  Tell you what, i'll consider the job for no
>> more than $15 an hour.  Friend explained 

Re: [AFMUG] OT People

[chuck]

Several years back, NPR – possibly This American Life – had l long bit about a 
company that is paid by the Guvmnt to help people qualify for disability.  In 
other words to find any trick possible to get them on disability.  Fascinating. 
 
Tax dollars at work.  

Found it.  An excerpt:
"Just out of curiosity, what is your disability?" the judge asked from the 
bench.
"I have high blood pressure," the man said.
"So do I," the judge said. "What else?"
"I have diabetes."
"So do I."

https://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/


From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 9:46 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT People

Well, here is a great discussion on the Subject of Disability, unemployment, 
and the fleecing we are getting 
It is an NPR article so I doubt many would call it conservatively biased. The 
fact is, when people run out of other types of programs, like welfare, they go 
straight for disability,.

Wish I could get my wife on that train. She recently joined the ranks fo the 
unemployed due to her retail job closing shop but I can't seem to get her to 
either look for a job or file for unemployment. I have paid for unemployment 
for decades and never used it. I guess this is anecdotal study on human nature. 
Until someone experiences negative consequences they feel no need to do 
anything. Well, some people.

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 10:13 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

  Some eligible disabilities would be very easy to fake.  Agoraphobia for 
example.  


  I have no data on how prevalent such fakery really is.  Different political 
groups will tell us different stories on that...but it's certainly not hard to 
do.  


  An average disability payment is $1258/month (anywhere from $800-$3000 based 
on a formula with a lot of factors).  If your only income is disability then 
you probably also qualify for HEAP and SNAP.   HEAP would get you $375/month if 
you have gas heat (more for oil or propane, but presumably because those cost 
moreI wouldn't know). OR it would get you $35/month if you have utilities 
included in your rent. SNAP could provide up to $194/month for a single person 
in NY.  

  If I'm a single person with an average disability payment, getting $35 from 
HEAP and $194 from SNAP then that's roughly equal to $9.29/hour.  You wouldn't 
pay income tax on that, but a person making $9/hour is getting pretty much 
everything refunded every April anywayso it's really about the same.  You 
won't live a good life, but you won't have to take any crap from The Man 
either.  


  If you have a child or two you can get another few hundred from TANF, but 
TANF requires you to work and/or look for work so you have to optimize that one 
by working exactly the right amount and then get fired.  Ideally get those kids 
diagnosed with autism or some such so you can start collecting disability 
checks on their behalf toothen you don't have to worry about optimizing 
TANF anymore.  You only get 5 years of TANF, but if you can't at least one 
doctor to say your kids has a disability within 5 years then you probably 
aren't trying hard.  Medicare is paying for these doctor visits, so just keep 
going and make sure to complain about all the right symptoms.

  On the one hand I have a brother with >100% disability due to injuries 
sustained in Afghanistan, so I'm not saying these programs should go away.  On 
the other hand I have an ex-sister in law who gets a disability check for her 
psychological issues, and also has 3 children diagnosed with autism, so she 
gets additional benefits for the 3 of them.   I think her real disability is 
being an unreasonable person and I think childhood autism symptoms look 
suspiciously like the standard behavior of bratty kids you aren't paying any 
attention to. 


  Again, I don't know how many people like that are out there (hopefully not 
too many), but there's definitely a road-map already laid out for your friend's 
daughter to be able to live a frugal, but not uncomfortable life without having 
to work 40 hours and contribute to society.


  




  On 3/24/2020 12:22 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

 

a friend of a friend recently told me of a story they're having to deal 
with.  Daughter "got into a bad situation" and was offered a roof where 
relative was living in another state.  After making the "mad dash" to "rescue" 
her, she's being very difficult.  They tried to help find her a job.  She 
wasn't interested.  Had apparently been watching too much bernie sanders or 
something.  Explained the job.  Response was how dare you interrupt my private 
time.  Tell you what, i'll consider the job for no more than $15 an hour.  
Friend explained no job starts at $15 an hour, at least not around here.  Maybe 
you can start at $8 or $9 but then you have to get some experience and maybe 
over time you'll get raises to higher levels.

Response was something about how in her other life she worked at a grocery 
store, a union 

Re: [AFMUG] OT People

[Carl Peterson]

It is hard to separate the chaff from the wheat.  The same goes for
corporate bailouts and interest free money.  Some might actually be needed,
but plenty of it goes straight into the pockets of shareholders in the from
of stock buyback or is lent right back to the treasury (buying up
government debt) at interest.  There is a tendency to look down at
individuals that work the system, but corporations that work the system are
doing their duty to maximize shareholder value.  Something pretty perverse
about that.

Any way you write the law, it will be worked to benefit those who don't
need it.  The more restrictive it is, the more it will benefit those who
are good at working the system which often isn't those who actually need
it.  This goes for corporate bailouts and interest free money even more
so.  Plenty of small businesses are really going to need help but if the
conditions are too onerous they won't have the ability to jump through all
the hoops.



On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 10:47 AM Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> Well, here is a great discussion on the Subject of Disability,
> unemployment, and the fleecing we are getting
> 
> It is an NPR article so I doubt many would call it conservatively biased.
> The fact is, when people run out of other types of programs, like welfare,
> they go straight for disability,.
>
> Wish I could get my wife on that train. She recently joined the ranks fo
> the unemployed due to her retail job closing shop but I can't seem to get
> her to either look for a job or file for unemployment. I have paid for
> unemployment for decades and never used it. I guess this is anecdotal study
> on human nature. Until someone experiences negative consequences they feel
> no need to do anything. Well, some people.
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 10:13 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> Some eligible disabilities would be very easy to fake.  Agoraphobia for
>> example.
>>
>> I have no data on how prevalent such fakery really is.  Different
>> political groups will tell us different stories on that...but it's
>> certainly not hard to do.
>>
>> An average disability payment is $1258/month (anywhere from $800-$3000
>> based on a formula with a lot of factors).  If your only income is
>> disability then you probably also qualify for HEAP and SNAP.   HEAP would
>> get you $375/month if you have gas heat (more for oil or propane, but
>> presumably because those cost moreI wouldn't know). OR it would get you
>> $35/month if you have utilities included in your rent. SNAP could provide
>> up to $194/month for a single person in NY.
>>
>> If I'm a single person with an average disability payment, getting $35
>> from HEAP and $194 from SNAP then that's roughly equal to $9.29/hour.  You
>> wouldn't pay income tax on that, but a person making $9/hour is getting
>> pretty much everything refunded every April anywayso it's really about
>> the same.  You won't live a good life, but you won't have to take any crap
>> from The Man either.
>>
>> If you have a child or two you can get another few hundred from TANF, but
>> TANF requires you to work and/or look for work so you have to optimize that
>> one by working exactly the right amount and then get fired.  Ideally get
>> those kids diagnosed with autism or some such so you can start collecting
>> disability checks on their behalf toothen you don't have to worry about
>> optimizing TANF anymore.  You only get 5 years of TANF, but if you can't at
>> least one doctor to say your kids has a disability within 5 years then you
>> probably aren't trying hard.  Medicare is paying for these doctor visits,
>> so just keep going and make sure to complain about all the right symptoms.
>>
>> On the one hand I have a brother with >100% disability due to injuries
>> sustained in Afghanistan, so I'm not saying these programs should go away.
>> On the other hand I have an ex-sister in law who gets a disability check
>> for her psychological issues, and also has 3 children diagnosed with
>> autism, so she gets additional benefits for the 3 of them.   I think her
>> real disability is being an unreasonable person and I think childhood
>> autism symptoms look suspiciously like the standard behavior of bratty kids
>> you aren't paying any attention to.
>>
>> Again, I don't know how many people like that are out there (hopefully
>> not too many), but there's definitely a road-map already laid out for your
>> friend's daughter to be able to live a frugal, but not uncomfortable life
>> without having to work 40 hours and contribute to society.
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 3/24/2020 12:22 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> a friend of a friend recently told me of a story they're having to deal
>> with.  Daughter "got into a bad situation" and was offered a roof where
>> relative was living in another state.  After making the "mad dash" to
>> "rescue" her, she's being very difficult.  They tried to help find her a
>> job.  She wasn't interested.  Had 

Re: [AFMUG] OT People

[Lewis Bergman]

Well, here is a great discussion on the Subject of Disability,
unemployment, and the fleecing we are getting

It is an NPR article so I doubt many would call it conservatively biased.
The fact is, when people run out of other types of programs, like welfare,
they go straight for disability,.

Wish I could get my wife on that train. She recently joined the ranks fo
the unemployed due to her retail job closing shop but I can't seem to get
her to either look for a job or file for unemployment. I have paid for
unemployment for decades and never used it. I guess this is anecdotal study
on human nature. Until someone experiences negative consequences they feel
no need to do anything. Well, some people.

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 10:13 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Some eligible disabilities would be very easy to fake.  Agoraphobia for
> example.
>
> I have no data on how prevalent such fakery really is.  Different
> political groups will tell us different stories on that...but it's
> certainly not hard to do.
>
> An average disability payment is $1258/month (anywhere from $800-$3000
> based on a formula with a lot of factors).  If your only income is
> disability then you probably also qualify for HEAP and SNAP.   HEAP would
> get you $375/month if you have gas heat (more for oil or propane, but
> presumably because those cost moreI wouldn't know). OR it would get you
> $35/month if you have utilities included in your rent. SNAP could provide
> up to $194/month for a single person in NY.
>
> If I'm a single person with an average disability payment, getting $35
> from HEAP and $194 from SNAP then that's roughly equal to $9.29/hour.  You
> wouldn't pay income tax on that, but a person making $9/hour is getting
> pretty much everything refunded every April anywayso it's really about
> the same.  You won't live a good life, but you won't have to take any crap
> from The Man either.
>
> If you have a child or two you can get another few hundred from TANF, but
> TANF requires you to work and/or look for work so you have to optimize that
> one by working exactly the right amount and then get fired.  Ideally get
> those kids diagnosed with autism or some such so you can start collecting
> disability checks on their behalf toothen you don't have to worry about
> optimizing TANF anymore.  You only get 5 years of TANF, but if you can't at
> least one doctor to say your kids has a disability within 5 years then you
> probably aren't trying hard.  Medicare is paying for these doctor visits,
> so just keep going and make sure to complain about all the right symptoms.
>
> On the one hand I have a brother with >100% disability due to injuries
> sustained in Afghanistan, so I'm not saying these programs should go away.
> On the other hand I have an ex-sister in law who gets a disability check
> for her psychological issues, and also has 3 children diagnosed with
> autism, so she gets additional benefits for the 3 of them.   I think her
> real disability is being an unreasonable person and I think childhood
> autism symptoms look suspiciously like the standard behavior of bratty kids
> you aren't paying any attention to.
>
> Again, I don't know how many people like that are out there (hopefully not
> too many), but there's definitely a road-map already laid out for your
> friend's daughter to be able to live a frugal, but not uncomfortable life
> without having to work 40 hours and contribute to society.
>
> 
>
>
> On 3/24/2020 12:22 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>
> 
>
> a friend of a friend recently told me of a story they're having to deal
> with.  Daughter "got into a bad situation" and was offered a roof where
> relative was living in another state.  After making the "mad dash" to
> "rescue" her, she's being very difficult.  They tried to help find her a
> job.  She wasn't interested.  Had apparently been watching too much bernie
> sanders or something.  Explained the job.  Response was how dare you
> interrupt my private time.  Tell you what, i'll consider the job for no
> more than $15 an hour.  Friend explained no job starts at $15 an hour, at
> least not around here.  Maybe you can start at $8 or $9 but then you have
> to get some experience and maybe over time you'll get raises to higher
> levels.
>
> Response was something about how in her other life she worked at a grocery
> store, a union was involved, union didn't do anything, didn't get backpay
> she was owed, etc this, etc that, yadda yadda
>
> todays update - - apparently she sat on hold for two hours to apply for
> disability benefits.   i asked my friend what disability?  he laughed,
> shook his head, and said i have no idea.
>
> what on earth is going on??? lol
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent:* Monday, March 23, 2020 3:24 PM
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT People
>
> Had to fire a guy today.  He had a checkered past.  Drugs, prison etc.
> I gave him a 

Re: [AFMUG] OT People

[Adam Moffett]

Oh I forgot about section 8 HUD housingwhat they call "projects" in 
the city.  You'll get help with rent, but you have to live in a property 
which is participating in the HUD program, so you may have to be willing 
to live in a ghetto.  Some of those ghetto properties are in such high 
demand they have a waiting listmy mother was the manager at one of 
them.  She came home with a lot of stories.



On 3/24/2020 11:12 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:


Some eligible disabilities would be very easy to fake. Agoraphobia for 
example.


I have no data on how prevalent such fakery really is. Different 
political groups will tell us different stories on that...but it's 
certainly not hard to do.


An average disability payment is $1258/month (anywhere from $800-$3000 
based on a formula with a lot of factors).  If your only income is 
disability then you probably also qualify for HEAP and SNAP.   HEAP 
would get you $375/month if you have gas heat (more for oil or 
propane, but presumably because those cost moreI wouldn't know). 
OR it would get you $35/month if you have utilities included in your 
rent. SNAP could provide up to $194/month for a single person in NY.


If I'm a single person with an average disability payment, getting $35 
from HEAP and $194 from SNAP then that's roughly equal to $9.29/hour.  
You wouldn't pay income tax on that, but a person making $9/hour is 
getting pretty much everything refunded every April anywayso it's 
really about the same.  You won't live a good life, but you won't have 
to take any crap from The Man either.


If you have a child or two you can get another few hundred from TANF, 
but TANF requires you to work and/or look for work so you have to 
optimize that one by working exactly the right amount and then get 
fired.  Ideally get those kids diagnosed with autism or some such so 
you can start collecting disability checks on their behalf toothen 
you don't have to worry about optimizing TANF anymore.  You only get 5 
years of TANF, but if you can't at least one doctor to say your kids 
has a disability within 5 years then you probably aren't trying hard.  
Medicare is paying for these doctor visits, so just keep going and 
make sure to complain about all the right symptoms.


On the one hand I have a brother with >100% disability due to injuries 
sustained in Afghanistan, so I'm not saying these programs should go 
away.  On the other hand I have an ex-sister in law who gets a 
disability check for her psychological issues, and also has 3 children 
diagnosed with autism, so she gets additional benefits for the 3 of 
them.   I think her real disability is being an unreasonable person 
and I think childhood autism symptoms look suspiciously like the 
standard behavior of bratty kids you aren't paying any attention to.


Again, I don't know how many people like that are out there (hopefully 
not too many), but there's definitely a road-map already laid out for 
your friend's daughter to be able to live a frugal, but not 
uncomfortable life without having to work 40 hours and contribute to 
society.





On 3/24/2020 12:22 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:


a friend of a friend recently told me of a story they're having to 
deal with.  Daughter "got into a bad situation" and was offered a 
roof where relative was living in another state.  After making the 
"mad dash" to "rescue" her, she's being very difficult.  They tried 
to help find her a job.  She wasn't interested.  Had apparently been 
watching too much bernie sanders or something. Explained the job.  
Response was how dare you interrupt my private time.  Tell you what, 
i'll consider the job for no more than $15 an hour.  Friend explained 
no job starts at $15 an hour, at least not around here.  Maybe you 
can start at $8 or $9 but then you have to get some experience and 
maybe over time you'll get raises to higher levels.
Response was something about how in her other life she worked at a 
grocery store, a union was involved, union didn't do anything, didn't 
get backpay she was owed, etc this, etc that, yadda yadda
todays update - - apparently she sat on hold for two hours to apply 
for disability benefits.   i asked my friend what disability?  he 
laughed, shook his head, and said i have no idea.

what on earth is going on??? lol

- Original Message -
*From:* ch...@wbmfg.com 
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Sent:* Monday, March 23, 2020 3:24 PM
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT People

Had to fire a guy today.  He had a checkered past. Drugs, prison
etc.
I gave him a shot, lots of training, (at least now he can have a
career, he was doing asbestos removal when I hired him).
Seems that he shoplifted at one of our favorite supply houses.
They had eyes on him when he went in, security footage of him
standing by a rack of stuff and when he turned away things were gone.
The front of his coat was bulging when he 

Re: [AFMUG] OT People

[Adam Moffett]

Some eligible disabilities would be very easy to fake. Agoraphobia for 
example.


I have no data on how prevalent such fakery really is.  Different 
political groups will tell us different stories on that...but it's 
certainly not hard to do.


An average disability payment is $1258/month (anywhere from $800-$3000 
based on a formula with a lot of factors).  If your only income is 
disability then you probably also qualify for HEAP and SNAP.   HEAP 
would get you $375/month if you have gas heat (more for oil or propane, 
but presumably because those cost moreI wouldn't know). OR it would 
get you $35/month if you have utilities included in your rent. SNAP 
could provide up to $194/month for a single person in NY.


If I'm a single person with an average disability payment, getting $35 
from HEAP and $194 from SNAP then that's roughly equal to $9.29/hour.  
You wouldn't pay income tax on that, but a person making $9/hour is 
getting pretty much everything refunded every April anywayso it's 
really about the same.  You won't live a good life, but you won't have 
to take any crap from The Man either.


If you have a child or two you can get another few hundred from TANF, 
but TANF requires you to work and/or look for work so you have to 
optimize that one by working exactly the right amount and then get 
fired.  Ideally get those kids diagnosed with autism or some such so you 
can start collecting disability checks on their behalf toothen you 
don't have to worry about optimizing TANF anymore.  You only get 5 years 
of TANF, but if you can't at least one doctor to say your kids has a 
disability within 5 years then you probably aren't trying hard.  
Medicare is paying for these doctor visits, so just keep going and make 
sure to complain about all the right symptoms.


On the one hand I have a brother with >100% disability due to injuries 
sustained in Afghanistan, so I'm not saying these programs should go 
away.  On the other hand I have an ex-sister in law who gets a 
disability check for her psychological issues, and also has 3 children 
diagnosed with autism, so she gets additional benefits for the 3 of 
them.   I think her real disability is being an unreasonable person and 
I think childhood autism symptoms look suspiciously like the standard 
behavior of bratty kids you aren't paying any attention to.


Again, I don't know how many people like that are out there (hopefully 
not too many), but there's definitely a road-map already laid out for 
your friend's daughter to be able to live a frugal, but not 
uncomfortable life without having to work 40 hours and contribute to 
society.





On 3/24/2020 12:22 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:


a friend of a friend recently told me of a story they're having to 
deal with.  Daughter "got into a bad situation" and was offered a roof 
where relative was living in another state.  After making the "mad 
dash" to "rescue" her, she's being very difficult.  They tried to help 
find her a job.  She wasn't interested.  Had apparently been 
watching too much bernie sanders or something.  Explained the job. 
Response was how dare you interrupt my private time.  Tell you what, 
i'll consider the job for no more than $15 an hour. Friend explained 
no job starts at $15 an hour, at least not around here.  Maybe you can 
start at $8 or $9 but then you have to get some experience and maybe 
over time you'll get raises to higher levels.
Response was something about how in her other life she worked at a 
grocery store, a union was involved, union didn't do anything, didn't 
get backpay she was owed, etc this, etc that, yadda yadda
todays update - - apparently she sat on hold for two hours to apply 
for disability benefits.   i asked my friend what disability?  he 
laughed, shook his head, and said i have no idea.

what on earth is going on??? lol

- Original Message -
*From:* ch...@wbmfg.com 
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Sent:* Monday, March 23, 2020 3:24 PM
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT People

Had to fire a guy today.  He had a checkered past. Drugs, prison etc.
I gave him a shot, lots of training, (at least now he can have a
career, he was doing asbestos removal when I hired him).
Seems that he shoplifted at one of our favorite supply houses.
They had eyes on him when he went in, security footage of him
standing by a rack of stuff and when he turned away things were gone.
The front of his coat was bulging when he left.
He visited the john, after he left they went in there and found
some tags etc etc etc.
I told them I would pay for the stuff.  They sent me an itemized
bill with the exact stuff he took.
Of course he wasn’t there, didn’t do it, didn’t steal, thought
about stealing this stuff but didn’t do it.
Wrongly accused, can he talk to the vendor etc etc.
I first found out when the vendor called me and told me he is
permanently 

Re: [AFMUG] OT People

[Cameron Crum]

That is where you provide one last piece of help in packing her bag and
then booting her out the door. I have personal experience with this.
Sometimes sink or swim is the only course of action and in some cases,
there is no saving them.

On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 11:23 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
wrote:

>
> a friend of a friend recently told me of a story they're having to deal
> with.  Daughter "got into a bad situation" and was offered a roof where
> relative was living in another state.  After making the "mad dash" to
> "rescue" her, she's being very difficult.  They tried to help find her a
> job.  She wasn't interested.  Had apparently been watching too much bernie
> sanders or something.  Explained the job.  Response was how dare you
> interrupt my private time.  Tell you what, i'll consider the job for no
> more than $15 an hour.  Friend explained no job starts at $15 an hour, at
> least not around here.  Maybe you can start at $8 or $9 but then you have
> to get some experience and maybe over time you'll get raises to higher
> levels.
>
> Response was something about how in her other life she worked at a grocery
> store, a union was involved, union didn't do anything, didn't get backpay
> she was owed, etc this, etc that, yadda yadda
>
> todays update - - apparently she sat on hold for two hours to apply for
> disability benefits.   i asked my friend what disability?  he laughed,
> shook his head, and said i have no idea.
>
> what on earth is going on??? lol
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent:* Monday, March 23, 2020 3:24 PM
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT People
>
> Had to fire a guy today.  He had a checkered past.  Drugs, prison etc.
> I gave him a shot, lots of training, (at least now he can have a career,
> he was doing asbestos removal when I hired him).
>
> Seems that he shoplifted at one of our favorite supply houses.
> They had eyes on him when he went in, security footage of him standing by
> a rack of stuff and when he turned away things were gone.
> The front of his coat was bulging when he left.
> He visited the john, after he left they went in there and found some tags
> etc etc etc.
> I told them I would pay for the stuff.  They sent me an itemized bill with
> the exact stuff he took.
>
> Of course he wasn’t there, didn’t do it, didn’t steal, thought about
> stealing this stuff but didn’t do it.
> Wrongly accused, can he talk to the vendor etc etc.
> I first found out when the vendor called me and told me he is permanently
> banned from their place.
>
> He was a parolee.  We even removed a bullet from his back that the cops
> had put there.
> It was bothering him and he could not get anyone to cut it out.  He didn’t
> want to spend the money to do it right.
> So one evening after work he was complaining about it to the crew.
> My son the mechanic scrubbed up, got out the betadyne, scalpel, forceps
> and out it came.
> (howz that for a company health plan).
>
> I have hired a bunch of guys like him over the years.  It rarely works
> out.  I have written letters to judges, hired lawyers, got sentences
> reduced, got people sprung from jail.
> Very few figure out how to leverage the chances I have given.
>
> Sucks losing the training time I have invested...
> Sucks losing an employee that knows how to do some valuable things.
> Sucks seeing humans continue to screw up their lives.
>
> About 20 years ago I was complaining about this same thing to someone.
> I told him I was not going to do this anymore.
> He said: “yes, you will keep doing it”.  Nope, done.
> I guess he was right, I kept doing it.  I will probably do it again.  I
> think I am an idiot sometimes.
>
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com