Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Josh Luthman]

What is "true fuel"?  Do you use it like stabilizer or is it a cleaner?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/TruFuel-TruFuel-4-Cycle-Ethanol-Free-Fuel-6527238/203571144#product-overview

>Our gas generator has a fuel cut-off switch, and we use that to shut off
the fuel to the carburetor. That way, we run the carb "dry", which reduces
the chances of gumming up the jet(s).

That's what my dad taught me to do years ago but both of my techs are
saying you don't want to do that.  I forget why, but it was suggested to me
that I shut the fuel off and when the carb was empty turn the engine switch
off.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 11:07 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> I wouldn't get too hung up on the presence of lack of presence of ethanol.
> Sure ethanol will make the fuel more susceptible to water in the fuel, but
> I think you may have something more simple wrong with the generator like a
> clogged jet or something. It's able to run OK with no/low load, but as soon
> as you add a load, it needs to be choked. That is a sign of insufficient
> fuel for the power demand.
>
> Our gas generator has a fuel cut-off switch, and we use that to shut off
> the fuel to the carburetor. That way, we run the carb "dry", which reduces
> the chances of gumming up the jet(s).
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 9/22/2020 7:07 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> So a likely problem is the fuel is old/stabil isn't working or the
> generator really doesn't like corn?
>
> Would premium fuel help or just skip straight to 0% ethanol?
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 8:24 PM  wrote:
>
>> A bit of choke can mean that it is starved for fuel.  The choke makes it
>> a richer mixture.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 5:36 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>>
>> Well it starts no problem, it just doesn't like running the UPS without a
>> bit of choke =/
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 6:15 PM Robert Andrews 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I heart Sta-BIL...  Ski boat, untouched for 5 years.  Full tank, Sta-BIL
>>> in a little extra proportion.  Connected new battery, Jumped in, turned
>>> key, started.  That doesn't happen with untreated gas...
>>>
>>> On 09/21/2020 12:36 PM, Larry Smith wrote:
>>> > I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel stabilizer.
>>> > Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers, anything
>>> > that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with ethanol
>>> > fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Robert]

How about 3K HP and 4K torque..  for a bit...

https://www.facebook.com/dylan.halverson.77/videos/3826021310770970

On 9/22/20 8:28 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:


Josh's new generator:

https://youtu.be/bvyeA7xHABo?t=48


On 9/22/2020 10:55 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Nitromethane.
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 22, 2020 8:07 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
So a likely problem is the fuel is old/stabil isn't working or the 
generator really doesn't like corn?


Would premium fuel help or just skip straight to 0% ethanol?
Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 8:24 PM  wrote:

A bit of choke can mean that it is starved for fuel.  The choke
makes it a richer mixture.
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 5:36 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
Well it starts no problem, it just doesn't like running the UPS
without a bit of choke =/
Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 6:15 PM Robert Andrews
 wrote:

I heart Sta-BIL...  Ski boat, untouched for 5 years.  Full
tank, Sta-BIL
in a little extra proportion.  Connected new battery, Jumped
in, turned
key, started.  That doesn't happen with untreated gas...

On 09/21/2020 12:36 PM, Larry Smith wrote:
> I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel
stabilizer.
> Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers,
anything
> that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with
ethanol
> fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.
>

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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Bill Prince]

  
  
It looks like (to me) they routed the blower drive belt around
  the wrong side of the idler pulley.


bp

On 9/22/2020 8:28 AM, Adam Moffett
  wrote:


  
  Josh's new generator:
  https://youtu.be/bvyeA7xHABo?t=48
  
  
  On 9/22/2020 10:55 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
  
  


  
Nitromethane.

  
 

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2020 8:07 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
  Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power
supply questions

  
   


  So a likely problem is the fuel is
old/stabil isn't working or the generator really doesn't
like corn?

Would premium fuel help or just skip straight to 0%
ethanol?

  

   
  Josh Luthman
  24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373
  

 
  
   
  
On Mon, Sep 21, 2020
  at 8:24 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com>
  wrote:


  

  
A bit of choke can mean that it is starved
  for fuel.  The choke makes it a richer
  mixture.  
 

  
 

  From: Josh Luthman
  
  Sent: Monday, September 21,
2020 5:36 PM
  To: AnimalFarm
  Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator
power supply questions

  
   


  Well it starts no problem, it
just doesn't like running the UPS without a
bit of choke =/

  

   
  Josh Luthman
  24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373
  

 
  
   
  
On Mon,
  Sep 21, 2020 at 6:15 PM Robert Andrews
  <i...@avantwireless.com>
  wrote:

I heart Sta-BIL...  Ski
  boat, untouched for 5 years.  Full tank,
  Sta-BIL 
  in a little extra proportion.  Connected
  new battery, Jumped in, turned 
  key, started.  That doesn't happen with
  untreated gas...
  
  On 09/21/2020 12:36 PM, Larry Smith wrote:
  > I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL
  360 Marine fuel stabilizer.
  > Use it in our golf cart, boat,
  motorcycles, lawn mowers, anything
  > that can (and likely) does sit for
  any period of time with ethanol
  > fuel in it.  It seems to actually
  work.
  > 
  
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Adam Moffett]

Josh's new generator:

https://youtu.be/bvyeA7xHABo?t=48


On 9/22/2020 10:55 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Nitromethane.
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 22, 2020 8:07 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
So a likely problem is the fuel is old/stabil isn't working or the 
generator really doesn't like corn?


Would premium fuel help or just skip straight to 0% ethanol?
Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 8:24 PM  wrote:

A bit of choke can mean that it is starved for fuel.  The choke
makes it a richer mixture.
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 5:36 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
Well it starts no problem, it just doesn't like running the UPS
without a bit of choke =/
Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 6:15 PM Robert Andrews
 wrote:

I heart Sta-BIL...  Ski boat, untouched for 5 years.  Full
tank, Sta-BIL
in a little extra proportion.  Connected new battery, Jumped
in, turned
key, started.  That doesn't happen with untreated gas...

On 09/21/2020 12:36 PM, Larry Smith wrote:
> I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel
stabilizer.
> Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers,
anything
> that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with
ethanol
> fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.
>

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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[chuck]

Drag chute too.

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2020 9:23 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

You'd better give that genny a hot rod paint job and put some huge exhaust 
stacks on it.  Your UPS might still not work, but you'll feel like a badass.


On 9/22/2020 10:55 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Nitromethane.

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2020 8:07 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

  So a likely problem is the fuel is old/stabil isn't working or the generator 
really doesn't like corn?

  Would premium fuel help or just skip straight to 0% ethanol?


  Josh Luthman
  24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 8:24 PM  wrote:

A bit of choke can mean that it is starved for fuel.  The choke makes it a 
richer mixture.  


From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 5:36 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

Well it starts no problem, it just doesn't like running the UPS without a 
bit of choke =/


Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 6:15 PM Robert Andrews  
wrote:

  I heart Sta-BIL...  Ski boat, untouched for 5 years.  Full tank, Sta-BIL 
  in a little extra proportion.  Connected new battery, Jumped in, turned 
  key, started.  That doesn't happen with untreated gas...

  On 09/21/2020 12:36 PM, Larry Smith wrote:
  > I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel stabilizer.
  > Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers, anything
  > that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with ethanol
  > fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.
  > 

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  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Adam Moffett]

You'd better give that genny a hot rod paint job and put some huge 
exhaust stacks on it.  Your UPS might still not work, but you'll feel 
like a badass.


On 9/22/2020 10:55 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Nitromethane.
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 22, 2020 8:07 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
So a likely problem is the fuel is old/stabil isn't working or the 
generator really doesn't like corn?


Would premium fuel help or just skip straight to 0% ethanol?
Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 8:24 PM  wrote:

A bit of choke can mean that it is starved for fuel.  The choke
makes it a richer mixture.
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 5:36 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
Well it starts no problem, it just doesn't like running the UPS
without a bit of choke =/
Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 6:15 PM Robert Andrews
 wrote:

I heart Sta-BIL...  Ski boat, untouched for 5 years.  Full
tank, Sta-BIL
in a little extra proportion.  Connected new battery, Jumped
in, turned
key, started.  That doesn't happen with untreated gas...

On 09/21/2020 12:36 PM, Larry Smith wrote:
> I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel
stabilizer.
> Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers,
anything
> that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with
ethanol
> fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.
>

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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Robert]

Methane?

On 9/22/20 7:59 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Maybe find a middle ground?

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 10:56 AM <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:


Nitromethane.
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 22, 2020 8:07 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
So a likely problem is the fuel is old/stabil isn't working or the
generator really doesn't like corn?

Would premium fuel help or just skip straight to 0% ethanol?
Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 8:24 PM  wrote:

A bit of choke can mean that it is starved for fuel.  The
choke makes it a richer mixture.
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 5:36 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
Well it starts no problem, it just doesn't like running the
UPS without a bit of choke =/
Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 6:15 PM Robert Andrews
 wrote:

I heart Sta-BIL...  Ski boat, untouched for 5 years.  Full
tank, Sta-BIL
in a little extra proportion. Connected new battery,
Jumped in, turned
key, started.  That doesn't happen with untreated gas...

On 09/21/2020 12:36 PM, Larry Smith wrote:
> I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel
stabilizer.
> Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers,
anything
> that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time
with ethanol
> fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.
>

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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Bill Prince]

  
  
I wouldn't get too hung up on the presence of lack of presence of
  ethanol. Sure ethanol will make the fuel more susceptible to water
  in the fuel, but I think you may have something more simple wrong
  with the generator like a clogged jet or something. It's able to
  run OK with no/low load, but as soon as you add a load, it needs
  to be choked. That is a sign of insufficient fuel for the power
  demand. 

Our gas generator has a fuel cut-off switch, and we use that to
  shut off the fuel to the carburetor. That way, we run the carb
  "dry", which reduces the chances of gumming up the jet(s).

bp

On 9/22/2020 7:07 AM, Josh Luthman
  wrote:


  
  So a likely problem is the fuel is old/stabil isn't
working or the generator really doesn't like corn?

Would premium fuel help or just skip straight to 0% ethanol?

  

  
  
  Josh Luthman
  24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373
  


  
  
  
On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 8:24
  PM <ch...@wbmfg.com>
  wrote:


  

  
A bit of choke can mean that it is starved for
  fuel.  The choke makes it a richer mixture.  
 

  
 

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 5:36
PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave
  Users Group 
          Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power
supply questions

  
   


  Well it starts no problem, it just
doesn't like running the UPS without a bit of choke
=/

  

   
  Josh Luthman
  24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373
  

 
  
   
  
On Mon, Sep 21,
  2020 at 6:15 PM Robert Andrews <i...@avantwireless.com>
  wrote:

I heart
  Sta-BIL...  Ski boat, untouched for 5 years.  Full
  tank, Sta-BIL 
  in a little extra proportion.  Connected new
  battery, Jumped in, turned 
  key, started.  That doesn't happen with untreated
  gas...
  
  On 09/21/2020 12:36 PM, Larry Smith wrote:
  > I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360
  Marine fuel stabilizer.
  > Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles,
  lawn mowers, anything
  > that can (and likely) does sit for any period
  of time with ethanol
  > fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.
  > 
  
  -- 
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  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  
  
  
  
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Jason Wilson]

I would run it dry then put a gallon of true fuel through it and see how it
runs.

On Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 07:08 Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> So a likely problem is the fuel is old/stabil isn't working or the
> generator really doesn't like corn?
>
> Would premium fuel help or just skip straight to 0% ethanol?
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 8:24 PM  wrote:
>
>> A bit of choke can mean that it is starved for fuel.  The choke makes it
>> a richer mixture.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 5:36 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>>
>> Well it starts no problem, it just doesn't like running the UPS without a
>> bit of choke =/
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 6:15 PM Robert Andrews 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I heart Sta-BIL...  Ski boat, untouched for 5 years.  Full tank, Sta-BIL
>>> in a little extra proportion.  Connected new battery, Jumped in, turned
>>> key, started.  That doesn't happen with untreated gas...
>>>
>>> On 09/21/2020 12:36 PM, Larry Smith wrote:
>>> > I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel stabilizer.
>>> > Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers, anything
>>> > that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with ethanol
>>> > fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Josh Luthman]

Maybe find a middle ground?

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 10:56 AM  wrote:

> Nitromethane.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 22, 2020 8:07 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>
> So a likely problem is the fuel is old/stabil isn't working or the
> generator really doesn't like corn?
>
> Would premium fuel help or just skip straight to 0% ethanol?
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 8:24 PM  wrote:
>
>> A bit of choke can mean that it is starved for fuel.  The choke makes it
>> a richer mixture.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 5:36 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>>
>> Well it starts no problem, it just doesn't like running the UPS without a
>> bit of choke =/
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 6:15 PM Robert Andrews 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I heart Sta-BIL...  Ski boat, untouched for 5 years.  Full tank, Sta-BIL
>>> in a little extra proportion.  Connected new battery, Jumped in, turned
>>> key, started.  That doesn't happen with untreated gas...
>>>
>>> On 09/21/2020 12:36 PM, Larry Smith wrote:
>>> > I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel stabilizer.
>>> > Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers, anything
>>> > that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with ethanol
>>> > fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[chuck]

Nitromethane.

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2020 8:07 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

So a likely problem is the fuel is old/stabil isn't working or the generator 
really doesn't like corn?

Would premium fuel help or just skip straight to 0% ethanol?


Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 8:24 PM  wrote:

  A bit of choke can mean that it is starved for fuel.  The choke makes it a 
richer mixture.  


  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 5:36 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

  Well it starts no problem, it just doesn't like running the UPS without a bit 
of choke =/


  Josh Luthman
  24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 6:15 PM Robert Andrews  wrote:

I heart Sta-BIL...  Ski boat, untouched for 5 years.  Full tank, Sta-BIL 
in a little extra proportion.  Connected new battery, Jumped in, turned 
key, started.  That doesn't happen with untreated gas...

On 09/21/2020 12:36 PM, Larry Smith wrote:
> I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel stabilizer.
> Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers, anything
> that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with ethanol
> fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.
> 

-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Josh Luthman]

So a likely problem is the fuel is old/stabil isn't working or the
generator really doesn't like corn?

Would premium fuel help or just skip straight to 0% ethanol?

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 8:24 PM  wrote:

> A bit of choke can mean that it is starved for fuel.  The choke makes it a
> richer mixture.
>
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 5:36 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>
> Well it starts no problem, it just doesn't like running the UPS without a
> bit of choke =/
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 6:15 PM Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
>> I heart Sta-BIL...  Ski boat, untouched for 5 years.  Full tank, Sta-BIL
>> in a little extra proportion.  Connected new battery, Jumped in, turned
>> key, started.  That doesn't happen with untreated gas...
>>
>> On 09/21/2020 12:36 PM, Larry Smith wrote:
>> > I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel stabilizer.
>> > Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers, anything
>> > that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with ethanol
>> > fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.
>> >
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[chuck]

A bit of choke can mean that it is starved for fuel.  The choke makes it a 
richer mixture.  


From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 5:36 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

Well it starts no problem, it just doesn't like running the UPS without a bit 
of choke =/


Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 6:15 PM Robert Andrews  wrote:

  I heart Sta-BIL...  Ski boat, untouched for 5 years.  Full tank, Sta-BIL 
  in a little extra proportion.  Connected new battery, Jumped in, turned 
  key, started.  That doesn't happen with untreated gas...

  On 09/21/2020 12:36 PM, Larry Smith wrote:
  > I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel stabilizer.
  > Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers, anything
  > that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with ethanol
  > fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.
  > 

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Josh Luthman]

Well it starts no problem, it just doesn't like running the UPS without a
bit of choke =/

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 6:15 PM Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> I heart Sta-BIL...  Ski boat, untouched for 5 years.  Full tank, Sta-BIL
> in a little extra proportion.  Connected new battery, Jumped in, turned
> key, started.  That doesn't happen with untreated gas...
>
> On 09/21/2020 12:36 PM, Larry Smith wrote:
> > I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel stabilizer.
> > Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers, anything
> > that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with ethanol
> > fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.
> >
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Robert Andrews]

 Prist is ( it's still around ) a fuel de-icer.  Not sure how that 
compares to the process Sta-BIL does.


On 09/21/2020 12:38 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
There used to be a product for airplanes.  Prist or something like that. 
Supposedly the best.  But that was back in the 1970s...


-Original Message- From: Larry Smith
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 1:36 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel stabilizer.
Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers, anything
that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with ethanol
fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.



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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Robert Andrews]

I heart Sta-BIL...  Ski boat, untouched for 5 years.  Full tank, Sta-BIL 
in a little extra proportion.  Connected new battery, Jumped in, turned 
key, started.  That doesn't happen with untreated gas...


On 09/21/2020 12:36 PM, Larry Smith wrote:

I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel stabilizer.
Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers, anything
that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with ethanol
fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.



--
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Ken Hohhof]

The nearest Casey’s used to have 87 and 89 octane both with 10% ethanol, plus 
diesel.  So I have to guy gas for the Subaru at the BP in the next town.

 

Then the Casey’s switched to 87 ethanol and 91 no ethanol.  Which was great 
because I would buy gas for the generators, lawnmowers, snowblowers, etc.

 

Now they’ve switched to 87 and 93, no longer have gas without ethanol.  So 
theoretically I can fill up the Subaru, but I’m back to looking for a source of 
gas without ethanol.  It’s farming country so I can’t badmouth ethanol.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 3:09 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

 

back when gas wasn't cut with corn and it didn't go bad anyway =) all of the 
stabilization products worked great

 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:39 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

There used to be a product for airplanes.  Prist or something like that. 
Supposedly the best.  But that was back in the 1970s...

-Original Message- 
From: Larry Smith
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 1:36 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel stabilizer.
Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers, anything
that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with ethanol
fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.

-- 
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net <mailto:lesm...@ecsis.net> 

On Mon September 21 2020 13:20, Adam Moffett wrote:
> Yeahengine maintenance on a generator is skipped more often than
> not.  Go ahead and pay extra for the synthetic oil because you have to
> admit to yourself that you're not going to remember to change it.  Also
> after the outage just let it run until the tank is empty because
> realistically you aren't going to drain and replace the fuel either.
>
> On 9/21/2020 2:14 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> > Generators often sit with stale fuel in them, get overdue for oil
> > changes, etc.

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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Probably separate, but you'd have to look. If there is a separate
  choke control, then the throttle is probably set by a governor.


bp

On 9/21/2020 1:24 PM, Josh Luthman
  wrote:


  
  There's no throttle, I guess it's tied to choke? 
Not really my area of knowledge at all...

  

  
  
  Josh Luthman
  24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373
  


  
  
  
On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 1:25
  PM Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote:


  Does the choke also
open the throttle?   That’s common on car engines, no idea
if it does on a generator.   That little bit of choke might
be kicking the speed up just enough to make the UPS happy.


Mark
  

  On Sep 21, 2020, at 1:13 PM, Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
wrote:
  
  
So you're thinking the 110v is
  probably its output and not relevant?  Carb issue
  could be causing it to bog down like that and it
  gets resolved by closing the choke a bit?
  

  

  
  
  It's labeled for 6250 running watts
and if I'm doing ~1500 that seems odd
that it'd be an overloading issue.
  
  
  Josh Luthman
  24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373
  


  



  On Mon, Sep 21,
2020 at 12:24 PM TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com>
wrote:
  
  
or maybe the 110v side is
  overloaded, maybe try running @ 220


  On Mon, Sep
21, 2020 at 9:22 AM <ch...@wbmfg.com>
wrote:
  
  

  

  Sounds like you have a carburetor
issue.  Maybe some plugged up
metering jets due to varnish.  
  

   
  
From: Josh
Luthman 
Sent: Monday,
  September 21, 2020 10:13 AM
To: AnimalFarm
Microwave Users Group 
        Subject: Re: [AFMUG]
      Generator power supply
  questions
  

 
  
  
None of our
  generators or any one I've seen
  let's you adjust voltage.  The
  ones we have are all TroyBilt-ish
  with Briggs engines.
  
The UPS did switch to the
generator when I lowered the
choke ~10%.  But it would not
use the generator at full open
and the generator sounded like
   

Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Larry Smith]

Yea, that's the regular stuff, I use the STA-BIL 22239 which
is labeled Marine Fuel Stabilizer.  Seems to work better in
environments with lots of water.

Either work just about as well I am sure, main thing with
ethanol based fuel is that you use one (stabilizer).

-- 
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net

On Mon September 21 2020 15:23, Josh Luthman wrote:
> We do put fuel stabil in it.  Looks like this:
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/STA-BIL-22208-Storage-Fuel-Stabilizer-8-fl-oz/16
>879745?wmlspartner=wlpa=0=1410&=227019318
>115==g=c=42529873352=aud-834279576166:pla-81187482992
>5=9015806pla=8175035=local=16879745=s
>em=Cj0KCQjwnqH7BRDdARIsACTSAduVLGNkTKxISk3QDHRBZ32cOrZ-mhsFE5F8b5RgSj5
>xVYUhZubqhZ4aApp1EALw_wcB
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:09 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
> > back when gas wasn't cut with corn and it didn't go bad anyway =) all of
> > the stabilization products worked great
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:39 PM  wrote:
> >> There used to be a product for airplanes.  Prist or something like that.
> >> Supposedly the best.  But that was back in the 1970s...
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Larry Smith
> >> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 1:36 PM
> >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
> >>
> >> I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel stabilizer.
> >> Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers, anything
> >> that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with ethanol
> >> fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Larry Smith
> >> lesm...@ecsis.net
> >>
> >> On Mon September 21 2020 13:20, Adam Moffett wrote:
> >> > Yeahengine maintenance on a generator is skipped more often than
> >> > not.  Go ahead and pay extra for the synthetic oil because you have to
> >> > admit to yourself that you're not going to remember to change it. 
> >> > Also after the outage just let it run until the tank is empty because
> >> > realistically you aren't going to drain and replace the fuel either.
> >> >
> >> > On 9/21/2020 2:14 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> >> > > Generators often sit with stale fuel in them, get overdue for oil
> >> > > changes, etc.
> >>
> >> --
> >> AF mailing list
> >> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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> >
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Josh Luthman]

This particular generator is probably 2 years old.  The other ones are
probably closer to 12 years old and have 0 problems =/

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 3:31 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> How long have you had the generator? The first thing to have problems on a
> gas generator is usually the carburetor (and/or the fuel system). The only
> thing we've had to service on our gas generators is carbs, filters, and oil
> changes.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 9/21/2020 8:03 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> Before the UPS units were plugged in, it ran just fine.  Once they were
> plugged in it sounded like it was struggling/running out of gas - this was
> resolved by closing the choke a little bit.  Do you think that's a
> frequency problem?
>
> 110vac at the UPS.  I didn't measure what was coming out of the generator.
>
> 6 amps per UPS load.  It charges very slowly so maybe 7-8 amps.  Still,
> well within the 20 amp circuit limit.  Generator has a 220v 30 amp plug as
> well.  It's an 8500w unit.  This is it:
> https://www.lowes.com/pd/Troy-Bilt-6250-8500-Watt-Gasoline-Portable-Generator-with-Briggs-Stratton-Engine/4732729
>
> UPS is two 1500va APC- Smart UPS 1500VA.  It's an OLDER version of this:
> https://www.amazon.com/APC-Smart-UPS-SMX1500RM2U-1500VA-System/dp/B002TIR2Z2/
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:44 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> 110v at the generator or the other end of the 175 feet of 10 AWG wire?
>>
>>
>>
>> And total load is 5-6 amps each including the UPS charging the
>> batteries?  What kind of UPS?  Something like an APC will have a relatively
>> low charging current, other setups may be quite a bit higher.  I know our
>> Alpha UPS units have programmable charging current and I had to lower it in
>> case the only generator I have available is our smallest Honda 1000 VA,
>> otherwise the generator would run for a minute or two and then trip on
>> overload.
>>
>>
>>
>> Doing the math on voltage drop in the wire, 10 AWG is around 1 ohm per
>> 1000 feet, and you have 350 feet of wire including hot and neutral.  So
>> 0.35 ohm times 5.5 amps is 2 volts.  Assuming the generator is putting out
>> 120 volts, that wouldn’t account for a 10 volt drop.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sounds like you suspect the generator can’t handle the load and as a
>> result is putting out low voltage.
>>
>>
>>
>> What kind of generator is this?  Is it an inverter style?  What is the VA
>> rating?  If it’s just a standard generator for power tools and stuff, a UPS
>> will sometimes find the voltage or frequency out of spec or unstable and
>> refuse to run off it.  If it’s just an APC UPS or something like that,
>> sometimes they have a sensitivity setting that you can set lower.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 9:22 AM
>> *To:* AFMUG 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>>
>>
>>
>> So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They
>> unplugged it all so that wing had nothing.
>>
>>
>>
>> As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other
>> phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains
>> and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and
>> the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going
>> on here.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator,
>> two runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
>>
>>
>> What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as
>> simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open
>> choke.
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> --
>> AF mailing list
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Josh Luthman]

There's no throttle, I guess it's tied to choke?  Not really my area of
knowledge at all...

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 1:25 PM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:

> Does the choke also open the throttle?   That’s common on car engines, no
> idea if it does on a generator.   That little bit of choke might be kicking
> the speed up just enough to make the UPS happy.
>
> Mark
>
> On Sep 21, 2020, at 1:13 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> So you're thinking the 110v is probably its output and not relevant?  Carb
> issue could be causing it to bog down like that and it gets resolved by
> closing the choke a bit?
>
> It's labeled for 6250 running watts and if I'm doing ~1500 that seems odd
> that it'd be an overloading issue.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:24 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> or maybe the 110v side is overloaded, maybe try running @ 220
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 9:22 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Sounds like you have a carburetor issue.  Maybe some plugged up metering
>>> jets due to varnish.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 10:13 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>>>
>>> None of our generators or any one I've seen let's you adjust voltage.
>>> The ones we have are all TroyBilt-ish with Briggs engines.
>>>
>>> The UPS did switch to the generator when I lowered the choke ~10%.  But
>>> it would not use the generator at full open and the generator sounded like
>>> it was bogging down.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:57 AM  wrote:
>>>
>>>> But engine speed will affect voltage.  At least on older units.
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: Mark Radabaugh
>>>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:40 AM
>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>>>>
>>>> Not sure what the generator is but most have the ability to adjust the
>>>> output voltage and frequency.   If you have the option you could just
>>>> crank
>>>> the generator output voltage up enough to make the UPS happy.   Note
>>>> that is
>>>> done by adjusting the excitation voltage, not the speed of the engine.
>>>> Engine speed changes frequency.  (All of this assumes a traditional
>>>> generator, not a inverter style generator like the small Honda’s)
>>>>
>>>> ark
>>>>
>>>> > On Sep 21, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Josh Luthman <
>>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They
>>>> unplugged
>>>> > it all so that wing had nothing.
>>>> >
>>>> > As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the
>>>> other
>>>> > phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator
>>>> complains
>>>> > and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke
>>>> and
>>>> > the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's
>>>> going
>>>> > on here.
>>>> >
>>>> > I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the
>>>> generator, two
>>>> > runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
>>>> >
>>>> > What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as
>>>> > simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full
>>>> open
>>>> > choke.
>>>> >
>>>> > Josh Luthman
>>>> > 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>>>> > Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>> > 1100 Wayne St
>>>> > Suite 1337
>>>> > Troy, OH 45373
>>>> > --
>>>> > AF mailing list
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>>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Josh Luthman]

We do put fuel stabil in it.  Looks like this:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/STA-BIL-22208-Storage-Fuel-Stabilizer-8-fl-oz/16879745?wmlspartner=wlpa=0=1410&=227019318115==g=c=42529873352=aud-834279576166:pla-81187482992=9015806pla=8175035=local=16879745=sem=Cj0KCQjwnqH7BRDdARIsACTSAduVLGNkTKxISk3QDHRBZ32cOrZ-mhsFE5F8b5RgSj5xVYUhZubqhZ4aApp1EALw_wcB

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:09 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> back when gas wasn't cut with corn and it didn't go bad anyway =) all of
> the stabilization products worked great
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:39 PM  wrote:
>
>> There used to be a product for airplanes.  Prist or something like that.
>> Supposedly the best.  But that was back in the 1970s...
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Larry Smith
>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 1:36 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>>
>> I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel stabilizer.
>> Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers, anything
>> that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with ethanol
>> fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.
>>
>> --
>> Larry Smith
>> lesm...@ecsis.net
>>
>> On Mon September 21 2020 13:20, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> > Yeahengine maintenance on a generator is skipped more often than
>> > not.  Go ahead and pay extra for the synthetic oil because you have to
>> > admit to yourself that you're not going to remember to change it.  Also
>> > after the outage just let it run until the tank is empty because
>> > realistically you aren't going to drain and replace the fuel either.
>> >
>> > On 9/21/2020 2:14 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>> > > Generators often sit with stale fuel in them, get overdue for oil
>> > > changes, etc.
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[TJ Trout]

back when gas wasn't cut with corn and it didn't go bad anyway =) all of
the stabilization products worked great

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:39 PM  wrote:

> There used to be a product for airplanes.  Prist or something like that.
> Supposedly the best.  But that was back in the 1970s...
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Larry Smith
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 1:36 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>
> I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel stabilizer.
> Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers, anything
> that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with ethanol
> fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.
>
> --
> Larry Smith
> lesm...@ecsis.net
>
> On Mon September 21 2020 13:20, Adam Moffett wrote:
> > Yeahengine maintenance on a generator is skipped more often than
> > not.  Go ahead and pay extra for the synthetic oil because you have to
> > admit to yourself that you're not going to remember to change it.  Also
> > after the outage just let it run until the tank is empty because
> > realistically you aren't going to drain and replace the fuel either.
> >
> > On 9/21/2020 2:14 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> > > Generators often sit with stale fuel in them, get overdue for oil
> > > changes, etc.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Larry Smith]

I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel stabilizer.
Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers, anything
that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with ethanol
fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.

-- 
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net

On Mon September 21 2020 13:20, Adam Moffett wrote:
> Yeahengine maintenance on a generator is skipped more often than
> not.  Go ahead and pay extra for the synthetic oil because you have to
> admit to yourself that you're not going to remember to change it.  Also
> after the outage just let it run until the tank is empty because
> realistically you aren't going to drain and replace the fuel either.
>
> On 9/21/2020 2:14 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> > Generators often sit with stale fuel in them, get overdue for oil
> > changes, etc.

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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Bill Prince]

  
  
How long have you had the generator? The first thing to have
  problems on a gas generator is usually the carburetor (and/or the
  fuel system). The only thing we've had to service on our gas
  generators is carbs, filters, and oil changes.


bp

On 9/21/2020 8:03 AM, Josh Luthman
  wrote:


  
  
Before the UPS units were plugged in, it ran just fine. 
  Once they were plugged in it sounded like it was
  struggling/running out of gas - this was resolved by closing
  the choke a little bit.  Do you think that's a frequency
  problem?


110vac at the UPS.  I didn't measure what was coming out of the
generator.


6 amps per UPS load.  It charges very slowly so maybe 7-8
  amps.  Still, well within the 20 amp circuit limit.  Generator
  has a 220v 30 amp plug as well.  It's an 8500w unit.  This is
  it: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Troy-Bilt-6250-8500-Watt-Gasoline-Portable-Generator-with-Briggs-Stratton-Engine/4732729


UPS is two 1500va APC- Smart UPS 1500VA.  It's an OLDER
  version of this: https://www.amazon.com/APC-Smart-UPS-SMX1500RM2U-1500VA-System/dp/B002TIR2Z2/
  

  


Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

  
  

  
  
  
On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:44
  AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:


  

  110v at the generator or the other
end of the 175 feet of 10 AWG wire?
   
  And total load is 5-6 amps each
including the UPS charging the batteries?  What kind of
UPS?  Something like an APC will have a relatively low
charging current, other setups may be quite a bit
higher.  I know our Alpha UPS units have programmable
charging current and I had to lower it in case the only
generator I have available is our smallest Honda 1000
VA, otherwise the generator would run for a minute or
two and then trip on overload.
   
  Doing the math on voltage drop in the
wire, 10 AWG is around 1 ohm per 1000 feet, and you have
350 feet of wire including hot and neutral.  So 0.35 ohm
times 5.5 amps is 2 volts.  Assuming the generator is
putting out 120 volts, that wouldn’t account for a 10
volt drop.
   
  Sounds like you suspect the generator
can’t handle the load and as a result is putting out low
voltage.
   
  What kind of generator is this?  Is
it an inverter style?  What is the VA rating?  If it’s
just a standard generator for power tools and stuff, a
UPS will sometimes find the voltage or frequency out of
spec or unstable and refuse to run off it.  If it’s just
an APC UPS or something like that, sometimes they have a
sensitivity setting that you can set lower.
   
   
  
From: AF 
  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
  Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:22 AM
  To: AFMUG 
  Subject: [AFMUG] Generator power supply
  questions
  
   
  
So Friday we have another 3 phase
  go down in the building.  They unplugged it all so
  that wing had nothing.

   


  As a precaution I start up the
generator.  When they're cutting the other phases we
are using I move it to the generator.  The generator
complains and the UPS units don't switch over.  I
drop it to say 90% open choke and the UPS switches
over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's
going on here.


   


  I have 175 feet of 10 gauge
(times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, two runs
of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps
each.


  
What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd
like to 

Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Adam Moffett]

Yeahengine maintenance on a generator is skipped more often than 
not.  Go ahead and pay extra for the synthetic oil because you have to 
admit to yourself that you're not going to remember to change it.  Also 
after the outage just let it run until the tank is empty because 
realistically you aren't going to drain and replace the fuel either.



On 9/21/2020 2:14 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Generators often sit with stale fuel in them, get overdue for oil 
changes, etc. 


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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Ken Hohhof]

I’ve had cases where a UPS would cycle back and forth between trying to run off 
the generator and off batteries, each time it would try to run off the 
generator it would bog down the generator and the voltage would drop and the 
UPS would sense undervoltage and kick back to batteries and it would just 
thrash like that.  That was years ago, the last time I tried to use a 
conventional generator.  Doesn’t sound like your problem though.

 

It’s also possible the generator has a problem, needs a tuneup or something.  
Generators often sit with stale fuel in them, get overdue for oil changes, etc. 
 Can it run a load close to its rated capacity OK, like 6000 watts of electric 
heaters or something?  Can it run a sump pump?  I had a brand new generator 
once that would run but not with a significant load, turns out it had a spark 
plug cracked in shipment.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 12:14 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

 

So you're thinking the 110v is probably its output and not relevant?  Carb 
issue could be causing it to bog down like that and it gets resolved by closing 
the choke a bit?

 

It's labeled for 6250 running watts and if I'm doing ~1500 that seems odd that 
it'd be an overloading issue.

 

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:24 PM TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com> > wrote:

or maybe the 110v side is overloaded, maybe try running @ 220

 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 9:22 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

Sounds like you have a carburetor issue.  Maybe some plugged up metering jets 
due to varnish.  

 

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 10:13 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

 

None of our generators or any one I've seen let's you adjust voltage.  The ones 
we have are all TroyBilt-ish with Briggs engines. 


The UPS did switch to the generator when I lowered the choke ~10%.  But it 
would not use the generator at full open and the generator sounded like it was 
bogging down.


 

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:57 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

But engine speed will affect voltage.  At least on older units.

-Original Message- 
From: Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:40 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

Not sure what the generator is but most have the ability to adjust the 
output voltage and frequency.   If you have the option you could just crank 
the generator output voltage up enough to make the UPS happy.   Note that is 
done by adjusting the excitation voltage, not the speed of the engine. 
Engine speed changes frequency.  (All of this assumes a traditional 
generator, not a inverter style generator like the small Honda’s)

ark

> On Sep 21, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Josh Luthman  <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> > 
> wrote:
>
> So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They unplugged 
> it all so that wing had nothing.
>
> As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other 
> phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains 
> and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and 
> the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going 
> on here.
>
> I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, two 
> runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
>
> What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as 
> simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open 
> choke.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Adam Moffett]

Our emergency generator now is a 20KW diesel.  The UPS's like that one 
just fine.


I've wondered sometimes if it's not about how many Watts it could make, 
but about the number of cylinders.  If you have a 2 cylinder engine then 
it seems like all the power for one side of the stator would end up 
coming from one cylinder.  That would seem to account for the engine 
running rougher when the load was uneven.  A 2 cylinder 4-stroke is also 
coasting on momentum half of the time, so the resitance on the stator 
must be slowing the rotation between power strokes and then it must 
burst back to full speed during the power stroke.  That would also seem 
to lead to rough running and fluctuating frequency.


That's speculation on my part, but Incidentally the 20KW diesel is 4 
cylinders.



On 9/21/2020 1:56 PM, Jason Wilson wrote:
Some UPS don't care for an unregulated AC. Either run your current 
generator through a line conditioner or go with inverter generators. 
The latter would be my choice and is what I use. Way back in the day I 
had cisco t1 routers that would not run on a 6kw portable generator. I 
had to use my truck inverter to power the site.


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 10:49 Adam Moffett > wrote:


Ken's answer of "use an inverter generator" is probably the
simplest thing.  You'll have way fewer problems than with any
other portable generator.  Also "dramatically oversize the
generator" would be a good solution too.

Half the windings on the generator give you a 110v phase.  The
other half give you the other 110v phase. Both together gives you
the 220v.

Are both UPS's about 5-6 amps, or is one much heavier loaded than
the other?  Are they both on the same phase or are they on
opposite phases?  A wiring diagram for the Troy-Bilt 6250 shows
two separate circuit breakers feeding two separate duplexes, so
you'd want to distribute load across them both.

If one phase has more load than the other, then there's more
resistance on one side of the stator.  That'll make the engine run
rough and that'll make the frequency unstable. Lights and power
tools won't care, but UPS's will.  If that was the issue, then the
engine would run better with a 220v UPS.  If the imbalance is real
bad you can even stall the engine. A bigger engine won't care so
much, and an inverter generator doesn't have this issue at all. 
At one time when the server room had to run on a 6KW generator I
had lots of problems until I carefully balanced the loadsso
there's my anecdotal/experimental evidence.

There might also be a sensitivity setting on the UPS. I'm not sure
about that specific model, but on some of them you can get into
the management software and change them to be less sensitive about
the AC input.

-Adam




On 9/21/2020 10:22 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They
unplugged it all so that wing had nothing.

As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting
the other phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The
generator complains and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop
it to say 90% open choke and the UPS switches over - but it's
only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going on here.

I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the
generator, two runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6
amps each.

What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it
as simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it
from full open choke.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Jason Wilson]

Some UPS don't care for an unregulated AC. Either run your current
generator through a line conditioner or go with inverter generators. The
latter would be my choice and is what I use. Way back in the day I had
cisco t1 routers that would not run on a 6kw portable generator. I had to
use my truck inverter to power the site.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 10:49 Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Ken's answer of "use an inverter generator" is probably the simplest
> thing.  You'll have way fewer problems than with any other portable
> generator.  Also "dramatically oversize the generator" would be a good
> solution too.
>
> Half the windings on the generator give you a 110v phase.  The other half
> give you the other 110v phase.  Both together gives you the 220v.
>
> Are both UPS's about 5-6 amps, or is one much heavier loaded than the
> other?  Are they both on the same phase or are they on opposite phases?  A
> wiring diagram for the Troy-Bilt 6250 shows two separate circuit breakers
> feeding two separate duplexes, so you'd want to distribute load across them
> both.
>
> If one phase has more load than the other, then there's more resistance on
> one side of the stator.  That'll make the engine run rough and that'll make
> the frequency unstable. Lights and power tools won't care, but UPS's will.
> If that was the issue, then the engine would run better with a 220v UPS.
> If the imbalance is real bad you can even stall the engine. A bigger engine
> won't care so much, and an inverter generator doesn't have this issue at
> all.  At one time when the server room had to run on a 6KW generator I had
> lots of problems until I carefully balanced the loadsso there's my
> anecdotal/experimental evidence.
>
> There might also be a sensitivity setting on the UPS.  I'm not sure about
> that specific model, but on some of them you can get into the management
> software and change them to be less sensitive about the AC input.
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
> On 9/21/2020 10:22 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They unplugged
> it all so that wing had nothing.
>
> As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other
> phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains
> and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and
> the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going
> on here.
>
> I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, two
> runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
>
> What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as
> simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open
> choke.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Adam Moffett]

Ken's answer of "use an inverter generator" is probably the simplest 
thing.  You'll have way fewer problems than with any other portable 
generator.  Also "dramatically oversize the generator" would be a good 
solution too.


Half the windings on the generator give you a 110v phase.  The other 
half give you the other 110v phase.  Both together gives you the 220v.


Are both UPS's about 5-6 amps, or is one much heavier loaded than the 
other?  Are they both on the same phase or are they on opposite phases?  
A wiring diagram for the Troy-Bilt 6250 shows two separate circuit 
breakers feeding two separate duplexes, so you'd want to distribute load 
across them both.


If one phase has more load than the other, then there's more resistance 
on one side of the stator.  That'll make the engine run rough and 
that'll make the frequency unstable. Lights and power tools won't care, 
but UPS's will.  If that was the issue, then the engine would run better 
with a 220v UPS.  If the imbalance is real bad you can even stall the 
engine. A bigger engine won't care so much, and an inverter generator 
doesn't have this issue at all. At one time when the server room had to 
run on a 6KW generator I had lots of problems until I carefully balanced 
the loadsso there's my anecdotal/experimental evidence.


There might also be a sensitivity setting on the UPS.  I'm not sure 
about that specific model, but on some of them you can get into the 
management software and change them to be less sensitive about the AC 
input.


-Adam




On 9/21/2020 10:22 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They 
unplugged it all so that wing had nothing.


As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the 
other phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator 
complains and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% 
open choke and the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like 
to know what's going on here.


I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, 
two runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.


What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as 
simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full 
open choke.


Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Mark Radabaugh]

Does the choke also open the throttle?   That’s common on car engines, no idea 
if it does on a generator.   That little bit of choke might be kicking the 
speed up just enough to make the UPS happy.

Mark

> On Sep 21, 2020, at 1:13 PM, Josh Luthman  wrote:
> 
> So you're thinking the 110v is probably its output and not relevant?  Carb 
> issue could be causing it to bog down like that and it gets resolved by 
> closing the choke a bit?
> 
> It's labeled for 6250 running watts and if I'm doing ~1500 that seems odd 
> that it'd be an overloading issue.
> 
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> 
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:24 PM TJ Trout  <mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> wrote:
> or maybe the 110v side is overloaded, maybe try running @ 220
> 
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 9:22 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
> wrote:
> Sounds like you have a carburetor issue.  Maybe some plugged up metering jets 
> due to varnish. 
>  
> From: Josh Luthman <>
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 10:13 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>  
> None of our generators or any one I've seen let's you adjust voltage.  The 
> ones we have are all TroyBilt-ish with Briggs engines.
> 
> The UPS did switch to the generator when I lowered the choke ~10%.  But it 
> would not use the generator at full open and the generator sounded like it 
> was bogging down.
>  
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>  
>  
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:57 AM > wrote:
> But engine speed will affect voltage.  At least on older units.
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: Mark Radabaugh
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:40 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
> 
> Not sure what the generator is but most have the ability to adjust the 
> output voltage and frequency.   If you have the option you could just crank 
> the generator output voltage up enough to make the UPS happy.   Note that is 
> done by adjusting the excitation voltage, not the speed of the engine. 
> Engine speed changes frequency.  (All of this assumes a traditional 
> generator, not a inverter style generator like the small Honda’s)
> 
> ark
> 
> > On Sep 21, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Josh Luthman > 
> > wrote:
> >
> > So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They unplugged 
> > it all so that wing had nothing.
> >
> > As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other 
> > phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains 
> > and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and 
> > the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going 
> > on here.
> >
> > I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, two 
> > runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
> >
> > What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as 
> > simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open 
> > choke.
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> > -- 
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com <>
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Josh Luthman]

So you're thinking the 110v is probably its output and not relevant?  Carb
issue could be causing it to bog down like that and it gets resolved by
closing the choke a bit?

It's labeled for 6250 running watts and if I'm doing ~1500 that seems odd
that it'd be an overloading issue.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:24 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> or maybe the 110v side is overloaded, maybe try running @ 220
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 9:22 AM  wrote:
>
>> Sounds like you have a carburetor issue.  Maybe some plugged up metering
>> jets due to varnish.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 10:13 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>>
>> None of our generators or any one I've seen let's you adjust voltage.
>> The ones we have are all TroyBilt-ish with Briggs engines.
>>
>> The UPS did switch to the generator when I lowered the choke ~10%.  But
>> it would not use the generator at full open and the generator sounded like
>> it was bogging down.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:57 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> But engine speed will affect voltage.  At least on older units.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Mark Radabaugh
>>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:40 AM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>>>
>>> Not sure what the generator is but most have the ability to adjust the
>>> output voltage and frequency.   If you have the option you could just
>>> crank
>>> the generator output voltage up enough to make the UPS happy.   Note
>>> that is
>>> done by adjusting the excitation voltage, not the speed of the engine.
>>> Engine speed changes frequency.  (All of this assumes a traditional
>>> generator, not a inverter style generator like the small Honda’s)
>>>
>>> ark
>>>
>>> > On Sep 21, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They
>>> unplugged
>>> > it all so that wing had nothing.
>>> >
>>> > As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the
>>> other
>>> > phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator
>>> complains
>>> > and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke
>>> and
>>> > the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's
>>> going
>>> > on here.
>>> >
>>> > I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator,
>>> two
>>> > runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
>>> >
>>> > What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as
>>> > simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full
>>> open
>>> > choke.
>>> >
>>> > Josh Luthman
>>> > 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>>> > Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> > 1100 Wayne St
>>> > Suite 1337
>>> > Troy, OH 45373
>>> > --
>>> > AF mailing list
>>> > AF@af.afmug.com
>>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Ken Hohhof]

I gave up long ago trying to be cheap and run a UPS or any electronics off that 
kind of generator which is meant for power tools and has mechanical governors 
for voltage and frequency.  I would just pay the money for a Honda EU2200i or 
similar inverter style generator and be done with it.

 

My next door neighbor after our last power outage bought something off Amazon 
that was an inverter style trifuel generator instead of the Honda, but I don’t 
have any feedback from him on how it worked out.  Obviously the advantage being 
right out of the box it could run on either gasoline or propane.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 10:04 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

 

Before the UPS units were plugged in, it ran just fine.  Once they were plugged 
in it sounded like it was struggling/running out of gas - this was resolved by 
closing the choke a little bit.  Do you think that's a frequency problem?

 

110vac at the UPS.  I didn't measure what was coming out of the generator.

 

6 amps per UPS load.  It charges very slowly so maybe 7-8 amps.  Still, well 
within the 20 amp circuit limit.  Generator has a 220v 30 amp plug as well.  
It's an 8500w unit.  This is it: 
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Troy-Bilt-6250-8500-Watt-Gasoline-Portable-Generator-with-Briggs-Stratton-Engine/4732729

 

UPS is two 1500va APC- Smart UPS 1500VA.  It's an OLDER version of this: 
https://www.amazon.com/APC-Smart-UPS-SMX1500RM2U-1500VA-System/dp/B002TIR2Z2/


 

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:44 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

110v at the generator or the other end of the 175 feet of 10 AWG wire?

 

And total load is 5-6 amps each including the UPS charging the batteries?  What 
kind of UPS?  Something like an APC will have a relatively low charging 
current, other setups may be quite a bit higher.  I know our Alpha UPS units 
have programmable charging current and I had to lower it in case the only 
generator I have available is our smallest Honda 1000 VA, otherwise the 
generator would run for a minute or two and then trip on overload.

 

Doing the math on voltage drop in the wire, 10 AWG is around 1 ohm per 1000 
feet, and you have 350 feet of wire including hot and neutral.  So 0.35 ohm 
times 5.5 amps is 2 volts.  Assuming the generator is putting out 120 volts, 
that wouldn’t account for a 10 volt drop.

 

Sounds like you suspect the generator can’t handle the load and as a result is 
putting out low voltage.

 

What kind of generator is this?  Is it an inverter style?  What is the VA 
rating?  If it’s just a standard generator for power tools and stuff, a UPS 
will sometimes find the voltage or frequency out of spec or unstable and refuse 
to run off it.  If it’s just an APC UPS or something like that, sometimes they 
have a sensitivity setting that you can set lower.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:22 AM
To: AFMUG mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

 

So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They unplugged it 
all so that wing had nothing.

 

As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other 
phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains and 
the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and the UPS 
switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going on here.

 

I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, two runs 
of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.


What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as simple as 
possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open choke.

 

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[TJ Trout]

or maybe the 110v side is overloaded, maybe try running @ 220

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 9:22 AM  wrote:

> Sounds like you have a carburetor issue.  Maybe some plugged up metering
> jets due to varnish.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 10:13 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>
> None of our generators or any one I've seen let's you adjust voltage.  The
> ones we have are all TroyBilt-ish with Briggs engines.
>
> The UPS did switch to the generator when I lowered the choke ~10%.  But it
> would not use the generator at full open and the generator sounded like it
> was bogging down.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:57 AM  wrote:
>
>> But engine speed will affect voltage.  At least on older units.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Mark Radabaugh
>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:40 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>>
>> Not sure what the generator is but most have the ability to adjust the
>> output voltage and frequency.   If you have the option you could just
>> crank
>> the generator output voltage up enough to make the UPS happy.   Note that
>> is
>> done by adjusting the excitation voltage, not the speed of the engine.
>> Engine speed changes frequency.  (All of this assumes a traditional
>> generator, not a inverter style generator like the small Honda’s)
>>
>> ark
>>
>> > On Sep 21, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Josh Luthman 
>>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They
>> unplugged
>> > it all so that wing had nothing.
>> >
>> > As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the
>> other
>> > phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator
>> complains
>> > and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke
>> and
>> > the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's
>> going
>> > on here.
>> >
>> > I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator,
>> two
>> > runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
>> >
>> > What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as
>> > simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full
>> open
>> > choke.
>> >
>> > Josh Luthman
>> > 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> > Direct: 937-552-2343
>> > 1100 Wayne St
>> > Suite 1337
>> > Troy, OH 45373
>> > --
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[chuck]

Sounds like you have a carburetor issue.  Maybe some plugged up metering jets 
due to varnish.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 10:13 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

None of our generators or any one I've seen let's you adjust voltage.  The ones 
we have are all TroyBilt-ish with Briggs engines. 

The UPS did switch to the generator when I lowered the choke ~10%.  But it 
would not use the generator at full open and the generator sounded like it was 
bogging down.


Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:57 AM  wrote:

  But engine speed will affect voltage.  At least on older units.

  -Original Message- 
  From: Mark Radabaugh
  Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:40 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

  Not sure what the generator is but most have the ability to adjust the 
  output voltage and frequency.   If you have the option you could just crank 
  the generator output voltage up enough to make the UPS happy.   Note that is 
  done by adjusting the excitation voltage, not the speed of the engine. 
  Engine speed changes frequency.  (All of this assumes a traditional 
  generator, not a inverter style generator like the small Honda’s)

  ark

  > On Sep 21, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Josh Luthman  
  > wrote:
  >
  > So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They unplugged 
  > it all so that wing had nothing.
  >
  > As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other 
  > phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains 
  > and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and 
  > the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going 
  > on here.
  >
  > I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, two 
  > runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
  >
  > What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as 
  > simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open 
  > choke.
  >
  > Josh Luthman
  > 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
  > Direct: 937-552-2343
  > 1100 Wayne St
  > Suite 1337
  > Troy, OH 45373
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Josh Luthman]

None of our generators or any one I've seen let's you adjust voltage.  The
ones we have are all TroyBilt-ish with Briggs engines.

The UPS did switch to the generator when I lowered the choke ~10%.  But it
would not use the generator at full open and the generator sounded like it
was bogging down.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:57 AM  wrote:

> But engine speed will affect voltage.  At least on older units.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Radabaugh
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:40 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>
> Not sure what the generator is but most have the ability to adjust the
> output voltage and frequency.   If you have the option you could just
> crank
> the generator output voltage up enough to make the UPS happy.   Note that
> is
> done by adjusting the excitation voltage, not the speed of the engine.
> Engine speed changes frequency.  (All of this assumes a traditional
> generator, not a inverter style generator like the small Honda’s)
>
> ark
>
> > On Sep 21, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Josh Luthman 
>
> > wrote:
> >
> > So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They
> unplugged
> > it all so that wing had nothing.
> >
> > As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the
> other
> > phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains
> > and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke
> and
> > the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's
> going
> > on here.
> >
> > I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator,
> two
> > runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
> >
> > What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as
> > simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full
> open
> > choke.
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> > --
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>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[chuck]

But engine speed will affect voltage.  At least on older units.

-Original Message- 
From: Mark Radabaugh

Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:40 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

Not sure what the generator is but most have the ability to adjust the 
output voltage and frequency.   If you have the option you could just crank 
the generator output voltage up enough to make the UPS happy.   Note that is 
done by adjusting the excitation voltage, not the speed of the engine. 
Engine speed changes frequency.  (All of this assumes a traditional 
generator, not a inverter style generator like the small Honda’s)


ark

On Sep 21, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:


So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They unplugged 
it all so that wing had nothing.


As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other 
phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains 
and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and 
the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going 
on here.


I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, two 
runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.


What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as 
simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open 
choke.


Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Mark Radabaugh]

Not sure what the generator is but most have the ability to adjust the output 
voltage and frequency.   If you have the option you could just crank the 
generator output voltage up enough to make the UPS happy.   Note that is done 
by adjusting the excitation voltage, not the speed of the engine.   Engine 
speed changes frequency.  (All of this assumes a traditional generator, not 
a inverter style generator like the small Honda’s)

 ark

> On Sep 21, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Josh Luthman  
> wrote:
> 
> So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They unplugged it 
> all so that wing had nothing.
> 
> As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other 
> phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains and 
> the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and the UPS 
> switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going on here.
> 
> I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, two 
> runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
> 
> What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as simple 
> as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open choke.
> 
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Josh Luthman]

I set mine to low when I install them due to that same post I've seen over
the years.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:00 AM Larry Smith  wrote:

> We had to set the sensitivity (sp?) setting on all our APC
> UPS to medium (drop from default of HIGH) or they would
> not accept the generator current (would stay on battery).
>
> --
> Larry Smith
> lesm...@ecsis.net
>
> On Mon September 21 2020 09:43, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> > 110v at the generator or the other end of the 175 feet of 10 AWG wire?
> >
> >
> >
> > And total load is 5-6 amps each including the UPS charging the
> batteries?
> > What kind of UPS?  Something like an APC will have a relatively low
> > charging current, other setups may be quite a bit higher.  I know our
> Alpha
> > UPS units have programmable charging current and I had to lower it in
> case
> > the only generator I have available is our smallest Honda 1000 VA,
> > otherwise the generator would run for a minute or two and then trip on
> > overload.
> >
> >
> >
> > Doing the math on voltage drop in the wire, 10 AWG is around 1 ohm per
> 1000
> > feet, and you have 350 feet of wire including hot and neutral.  So 0.35
> ohm
> > times 5.5 amps is 2 volts.  Assuming the generator is putting out 120
> > volts, that wouldn’t account for a 10 volt drop.
> >
> >
> >
> > Sounds like you suspect the generator can’t handle the load and as a
> result
> > is putting out low voltage.
> >
> >
> >
> > What kind of generator is this?  Is it an inverter style?  What is the VA
> > rating?  If it’s just a standard generator for power tools and stuff, a
> UPS
> > will sometimes find the voltage or frequency out of spec or unstable and
> > refuse to run off it.  If it’s just an APC UPS or something like that,
> > sometimes they have a sensitivity setting that you can set lower.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:22 AM
> > To: AFMUG 
> > Subject: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
> >
> >
> >
> > So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They
> unplugged
> > it all so that wing had nothing.
> >
> >
> >
> > As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other
> > phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains
> > and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and
> > the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's
> going
> > on here.
> >
> >
> >
> > I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator,
> two
> > runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
> >
> >
> > What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as
> simple
> > as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open choke.
> >
> >
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Josh Luthman]

Before the UPS units were plugged in, it ran just fine.  Once they were
plugged in it sounded like it was struggling/running out of gas - this was
resolved by closing the choke a little bit.  Do you think that's a
frequency problem?

110vac at the UPS.  I didn't measure what was coming out of the generator.

6 amps per UPS load.  It charges very slowly so maybe 7-8 amps.  Still,
well within the 20 amp circuit limit.  Generator has a 220v 30 amp plug as
well.  It's an 8500w unit.  This is it:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Troy-Bilt-6250-8500-Watt-Gasoline-Portable-Generator-with-Briggs-Stratton-Engine/4732729

UPS is two 1500va APC- Smart UPS 1500VA.  It's an OLDER version of this:
https://www.amazon.com/APC-Smart-UPS-SMX1500RM2U-1500VA-System/dp/B002TIR2Z2/

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:44 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> 110v at the generator or the other end of the 175 feet of 10 AWG wire?
>
>
>
> And total load is 5-6 amps each including the UPS charging the batteries?
> What kind of UPS?  Something like an APC will have a relatively low
> charging current, other setups may be quite a bit higher.  I know our Alpha
> UPS units have programmable charging current and I had to lower it in case
> the only generator I have available is our smallest Honda 1000 VA,
> otherwise the generator would run for a minute or two and then trip on
> overload.
>
>
>
> Doing the math on voltage drop in the wire, 10 AWG is around 1 ohm per
> 1000 feet, and you have 350 feet of wire including hot and neutral.  So
> 0.35 ohm times 5.5 amps is 2 volts.  Assuming the generator is putting out
> 120 volts, that wouldn’t account for a 10 volt drop.
>
>
>
> Sounds like you suspect the generator can’t handle the load and as a
> result is putting out low voltage.
>
>
>
> What kind of generator is this?  Is it an inverter style?  What is the VA
> rating?  If it’s just a standard generator for power tools and stuff, a UPS
> will sometimes find the voltage or frequency out of spec or unstable and
> refuse to run off it.  If it’s just an APC UPS or something like that,
> sometimes they have a sensitivity setting that you can set lower.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 9:22 AM
> *To:* AFMUG 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>
>
>
> So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They unplugged
> it all so that wing had nothing.
>
>
>
> As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other
> phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains
> and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and
> the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going
> on here.
>
>
>
> I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, two
> runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
>
>
> What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as
> simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open
> choke.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Larry Smith]

We had to set the sensitivity (sp?) setting on all our APC
UPS to medium (drop from default of HIGH) or they would
not accept the generator current (would stay on battery).

-- 
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net

On Mon September 21 2020 09:43, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> 110v at the generator or the other end of the 175 feet of 10 AWG wire?
>
>
>
> And total load is 5-6 amps each including the UPS charging the batteries? 
> What kind of UPS?  Something like an APC will have a relatively low
> charging current, other setups may be quite a bit higher.  I know our Alpha
> UPS units have programmable charging current and I had to lower it in case
> the only generator I have available is our smallest Honda 1000 VA,
> otherwise the generator would run for a minute or two and then trip on
> overload.
>
>
>
> Doing the math on voltage drop in the wire, 10 AWG is around 1 ohm per 1000
> feet, and you have 350 feet of wire including hot and neutral.  So 0.35 ohm
> times 5.5 amps is 2 volts.  Assuming the generator is putting out 120
> volts, that wouldn’t account for a 10 volt drop.
>
>
>
> Sounds like you suspect the generator can’t handle the load and as a result
> is putting out low voltage.
>
>
>
> What kind of generator is this?  Is it an inverter style?  What is the VA
> rating?  If it’s just a standard generator for power tools and stuff, a UPS
> will sometimes find the voltage or frequency out of spec or unstable and
> refuse to run off it.  If it’s just an APC UPS or something like that,
> sometimes they have a sensitivity setting that you can set lower.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:22 AM
> To: AFMUG 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>
>
>
> So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They unplugged
> it all so that wing had nothing.
>
>
>
> As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other
> phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains
> and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and
> the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going
> on here.
>
>
>
> I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, two
> runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
>
>
> What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as simple
> as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open choke.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373

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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Ken Hohhof]

110v at the generator or the other end of the 175 feet of 10 AWG wire?

 

And total load is 5-6 amps each including the UPS charging the batteries?  What 
kind of UPS?  Something like an APC will have a relatively low charging 
current, other setups may be quite a bit higher.  I know our Alpha UPS units 
have programmable charging current and I had to lower it in case the only 
generator I have available is our smallest Honda 1000 VA, otherwise the 
generator would run for a minute or two and then trip on overload.

 

Doing the math on voltage drop in the wire, 10 AWG is around 1 ohm per 1000 
feet, and you have 350 feet of wire including hot and neutral.  So 0.35 ohm 
times 5.5 amps is 2 volts.  Assuming the generator is putting out 120 volts, 
that wouldn’t account for a 10 volt drop.

 

Sounds like you suspect the generator can’t handle the load and as a result is 
putting out low voltage.

 

What kind of generator is this?  Is it an inverter style?  What is the VA 
rating?  If it’s just a standard generator for power tools and stuff, a UPS 
will sometimes find the voltage or frequency out of spec or unstable and refuse 
to run off it.  If it’s just an APC UPS or something like that, sometimes they 
have a sensitivity setting that you can set lower.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:22 AM
To: AFMUG 
Subject: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

 

So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They unplugged it 
all so that wing had nothing.

 

As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other 
phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains and 
the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and the UPS 
switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going on here.

 

I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, two runs 
of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.


What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as simple as 
possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open choke.

 

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Chuck McCown]

I would guess your frequency was high and that may have bothered the ups. 
Dropping it lowered the freq and the voltage both.  110 volts is ok.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 21, 2020, at 8:23 AM, Josh Luthman  wrote:
> 
> 
> So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They unplugged it 
> all so that wing had nothing.
> 
> As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other 
> phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains and 
> the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and the UPS 
> switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going on here.
> 
> I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, two 
> runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
> 
> What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as simple 
> as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open choke.
> 
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

[Sterling Jacobson]

Ok, those are good options.

A bit more expensive, but probably better to get a larger gen.

I like how Kohler still has a catch phrase, “Bold new Kohler design…” lol

From: AF  On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 5:19 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

These are 12Kw and look to be smaller than the Generac?

https://www.nationwidegenerators.com/briggs-stratton-40517-12kw-generator/

https://www.nationwidegenerators.com/kohler-12resv-120-240v-1ph-generator-with-oncue-generator-management-system/



From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:59 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

Good points.

Still, need a small form factor due to the building owner being obtuse about 
having a Gen on the back sidewalk.

So I’ll just wire the rack and maybe the lights for now and test it out.

3kw real output should cover those.

Also, I don’t want to have to excessively re-run my gas line to the unit, so 
the smaller NG gen the better and hopefully use the existing line given I’m not 
going to power the heat unit from NG at the same time the gen is on.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 9, 2020 7:03 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

If your HVAC is 240 then you have more HVAC load than that generator can pull 
on just that one load.

40 amps x 240 Volts is 9600 Watts.

7.5 kW generac will only deliver 31 amps at 240 VAC  And you really don’t want 
to load a generator up that much.  50% is a good derating factor.  Also,  
generators publish their power output at sea level.

Knock off 3% for every 1000’ above sea level and 2% for every 10 degrees above 
70 degrees F
Rounding up, you are close to 5000’ so that is 15% lost for altitude and in the 
summer at 110 degrees that is another 8%.
So you lose as much as 23% of capacity  on a hot summer day.  Worse if you 
power it from natural gas.

I would add up all your loads, add 50% for growth then double that figure for 
not loading the generator too much and to account for derating.

The installation is the expensive part.  Don’t scrimp on kW at this stage of 
the game.  Sounds to me like you need a 20 kW or more depending on your true 
HVAC loads.

From: Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 6:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: [AFMUG] Generator for office

I need a smaller footprint generator for my 1300 sqr foot office.

Was thinking of getting the 50A 7.5KW Generac 6998 for $2050.00 that includes 
the 50A transfer switch.

I think my breakers has several 20A switches and 40A for the HVAC.

Not sure if this would cover the power needed for the whole unit, or just the 
fiber cabinet/rack I have that has max 20A circuit to it?

The next highest power draw is probably the HVAC and/or water heater.

The lights only draw about 500W since I switched them all to LED.



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Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

[Seth Mattinen]

On 2/10/20 15:58, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
Still, need a small form factor due to the building owner being obtuse 
about having a Gen on the back sidewalk.





Ask if you can put it inside. Mine (Cummins diesel) are inside.

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Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

[chuck]

Going from a 7.5 to a 15 kW is not physically that much larger.  

How about in the tree strip behind your building?
Or sacrifice a parking space.  

From: Sterling Jacobson 
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 5:13 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

They said no for roof installation.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 5:11 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

 

Roof?

 

From: Sterling Jacobson 

Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 4:58 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

 

Good points.

 

Still, need a small form factor due to the building owner being obtuse about 
having a Gen on the back sidewalk.

 

So I’ll just wire the rack and maybe the lights for now and test it out.

 

3kw real output should cover those.

 

Also, I don’t want to have to excessively re-run my gas line to the unit, so 
the smaller NG gen the better and hopefully use the existing line given I’m not 
going to power the heat unit from NG at the same time the gen is on.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Sunday, February 9, 2020 7:03 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

 

If your HVAC is 240 then you have more HVAC load than that generator can pull 
on just that one load.  

 

40 amps x 240 Volts is 9600 Watts.  

 

7.5 kW generac will only deliver 31 amps at 240 VAC  And you really don’t want 
to load a generator up that much.  50% is a good derating factor.  Also,  
generators publish their power output at sea level.  

 

Knock off 3% for every 1000’ above sea level and 2% for every 10 degrees above 
70 degrees F

Rounding up, you are close to 5000’ so that is 15% lost for altitude and in the 
summer at 110 degrees that is another 8%.  

So you lose as much as 23% of capacity  on a hot summer day.  Worse if you 
power it from natural gas.  

 

I would add up all your loads, add 50% for growth then double that figure for 
not loading the generator too much and to account for derating.  

 

The installation is the expensive part.  Don’t scrimp on kW at this stage of 
the game.  Sounds to me like you need a 20 kW or more depending on your true 
HVAC loads.  

 

From: Sterling Jacobson 

Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 6:04 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: [AFMUG] Generator for office

 

I need a smaller footprint generator for my 1300 sqr foot office.

 

Was thinking of getting the 50A 7.5KW Generac 6998 for $2050.00 that includes 
the 50A transfer switch.

 

I think my breakers has several 20A switches and 40A for the HVAC.

 

Not sure if this would cover the power needed for the whole unit, or just the 
fiber cabinet/rack I have that has max 20A circuit to it?

 

The next highest power draw is probably the HVAC and/or water heater.

 

The lights only draw about 500W since I switched them all to LED.

 

 




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Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

[SmarterBroadband]

These are 12Kw and look to be smaller than the Generac?

 

https://www.nationwidegenerators.com/briggs-stratton-40517-12kw-generator/

 

https://www.nationwidegenerators.com/kohler-12resv-120-240v-1ph-generator-with-oncue-generator-management-system/

 

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:59 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

 

Good points.

 

Still, need a small form factor due to the building owner being obtuse about 
having a Gen on the back sidewalk.

 

So I’ll just wire the rack and maybe the lights for now and test it out.

 

3kw real output should cover those.

 

Also, I don’t want to have to excessively re-run my gas line to the unit, so 
the smaller NG gen the better and hopefully use the existing line given I’m not 
going to power the heat unit from NG at the same time the gen is on.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> 
Sent: Sunday, February 9, 2020 7:03 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

 

If your HVAC is 240 then you have more HVAC load than that generator can pull 
on just that one load.  

 

40 amps x 240 Volts is 9600 Watts.  

 

7.5 kW generac will only deliver 31 amps at 240 VAC  And you really don’t want 
to load a generator up that much.  50% is a good derating factor.  Also,  
generators publish their power output at sea level.  

 

Knock off 3% for every 1000’ above sea level and 2% for every 10 degrees above 
70 degrees F

Rounding up, you are close to 5000’ so that is 15% lost for altitude and in the 
summer at 110 degrees that is another 8%.  

So you lose as much as 23% of capacity  on a hot summer day.  Worse if you 
power it from natural gas.  

 

I would add up all your loads, add 50% for growth then double that figure for 
not loading the generator too much and to account for derating.  

 

The installation is the expensive part.  Don’t scrimp on kW at this stage of 
the game.  Sounds to me like you need a 20 kW or more depending on your true 
HVAC loads.  

 

From: Sterling Jacobson 

Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 6:04 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: [AFMUG] Generator for office

 

I need a smaller footprint generator for my 1300 sqr foot office.

 

Was thinking of getting the 50A 7.5KW Generac 6998 for $2050.00 that includes 
the 50A transfer switch.

 

I think my breakers has several 20A switches and 40A for the HVAC.

 

Not sure if this would cover the power needed for the whole unit, or just the 
fiber cabinet/rack I have that has max 20A circuit to it?

 

The next highest power draw is probably the HVAC and/or water heater.

 

The lights only draw about 500W since I switched them all to LED.

 

 

  _  

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Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

[Sterling Jacobson]

They said no for roof installation.

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 5:11 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

Roof?

From: Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 4:58 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

Good points.

Still, need a small form factor due to the building owner being obtuse about 
having a Gen on the back sidewalk.

So I’ll just wire the rack and maybe the lights for now and test it out.

3kw real output should cover those.

Also, I don’t want to have to excessively re-run my gas line to the unit, so 
the smaller NG gen the better and hopefully use the existing line given I’m not 
going to power the heat unit from NG at the same time the gen is on.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 9, 2020 7:03 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

If your HVAC is 240 then you have more HVAC load than that generator can pull 
on just that one load.

40 amps x 240 Volts is 9600 Watts.

7.5 kW generac will only deliver 31 amps at 240 VAC  And you really don’t want 
to load a generator up that much.  50% is a good derating factor.  Also,  
generators publish their power output at sea level.

Knock off 3% for every 1000’ above sea level and 2% for every 10 degrees above 
70 degrees F
Rounding up, you are close to 5000’ so that is 15% lost for altitude and in the 
summer at 110 degrees that is another 8%.
So you lose as much as 23% of capacity  on a hot summer day.  Worse if you 
power it from natural gas.

I would add up all your loads, add 50% for growth then double that figure for 
not loading the generator too much and to account for derating.

The installation is the expensive part.  Don’t scrimp on kW at this stage of 
the game.  Sounds to me like you need a 20 kW or more depending on your true 
HVAC loads.

From: Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 6:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: [AFMUG] Generator for office

I need a smaller footprint generator for my 1300 sqr foot office.

Was thinking of getting the 50A 7.5KW Generac 6998 for $2050.00 that includes 
the 50A transfer switch.

I think my breakers has several 20A switches and 40A for the HVAC.

Not sure if this would cover the power needed for the whole unit, or just the 
fiber cabinet/rack I have that has max 20A circuit to it?

The next highest power draw is probably the HVAC and/or water heater.

The lights only draw about 500W since I switched them all to LED.



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Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

[chuck]

Roof?

From: Sterling Jacobson 
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 4:58 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

Good points.

 

Still, need a small form factor due to the building owner being obtuse about 
having a Gen on the back sidewalk.

 

So I’ll just wire the rack and maybe the lights for now and test it out.

 

3kw real output should cover those.

 

Also, I don’t want to have to excessively re-run my gas line to the unit, so 
the smaller NG gen the better and hopefully use the existing line given I’m not 
going to power the heat unit from NG at the same time the gen is on.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Sunday, February 9, 2020 7:03 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

 

If your HVAC is 240 then you have more HVAC load than that generator can pull 
on just that one load.  

 

40 amps x 240 Volts is 9600 Watts.  

 

7.5 kW generac will only deliver 31 amps at 240 VAC  And you really don’t want 
to load a generator up that much.  50% is a good derating factor.  Also,  
generators publish their power output at sea level.  

 

Knock off 3% for every 1000’ above sea level and 2% for every 10 degrees above 
70 degrees F

Rounding up, you are close to 5000’ so that is 15% lost for altitude and in the 
summer at 110 degrees that is another 8%.  

So you lose as much as 23% of capacity  on a hot summer day.  Worse if you 
power it from natural gas.  

 

I would add up all your loads, add 50% for growth then double that figure for 
not loading the generator too much and to account for derating.  

 

The installation is the expensive part.  Don’t scrimp on kW at this stage of 
the game.  Sounds to me like you need a 20 kW or more depending on your true 
HVAC loads.  

 

From: Sterling Jacobson 

Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 6:04 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: [AFMUG] Generator for office

 

I need a smaller footprint generator for my 1300 sqr foot office.

 

Was thinking of getting the 50A 7.5KW Generac 6998 for $2050.00 that includes 
the 50A transfer switch.

 

I think my breakers has several 20A switches and 40A for the HVAC.

 

Not sure if this would cover the power needed for the whole unit, or just the 
fiber cabinet/rack I have that has max 20A circuit to it?

 

The next highest power draw is probably the HVAC and/or water heater.

 

The lights only draw about 500W since I switched them all to LED.

 

 




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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




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Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

[Sterling Jacobson]

Good points.

Still, need a small form factor due to the building owner being obtuse about 
having a Gen on the back sidewalk.

So I’ll just wire the rack and maybe the lights for now and test it out.

3kw real output should cover those.

Also, I don’t want to have to excessively re-run my gas line to the unit, so 
the smaller NG gen the better and hopefully use the existing line given I’m not 
going to power the heat unit from NG at the same time the gen is on.


From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Sunday, February 9, 2020 7:03 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

If your HVAC is 240 then you have more HVAC load than that generator can pull 
on just that one load.

40 amps x 240 Volts is 9600 Watts.

7.5 kW generac will only deliver 31 amps at 240 VAC  And you really don’t want 
to load a generator up that much.  50% is a good derating factor.  Also,  
generators publish their power output at sea level.

Knock off 3% for every 1000’ above sea level and 2% for every 10 degrees above 
70 degrees F
Rounding up, you are close to 5000’ so that is 15% lost for altitude and in the 
summer at 110 degrees that is another 8%.
So you lose as much as 23% of capacity  on a hot summer day.  Worse if you 
power it from natural gas.

I would add up all your loads, add 50% for growth then double that figure for 
not loading the generator too much and to account for derating.

The installation is the expensive part.  Don’t scrimp on kW at this stage of 
the game.  Sounds to me like you need a 20 kW or more depending on your true 
HVAC loads.

From: Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 6:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: [AFMUG] Generator for office

I need a smaller footprint generator for my 1300 sqr foot office.

Was thinking of getting the 50A 7.5KW Generac 6998 for $2050.00 that includes 
the 50A transfer switch.

I think my breakers has several 20A switches and 40A for the HVAC.

Not sure if this would cover the power needed for the whole unit, or just the 
fiber cabinet/rack I have that has max 20A circuit to it?

The next highest power draw is probably the HVAC and/or water heater.

The lights only draw about 500W since I switched them all to LED.



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Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

[Josh Luthman]

I'm asking out of curiosity.  My house is gas heat, so it's on a 15 amp
breaker (for the control board/thermostat).  My parents are on a mini split
and pellet stove.  Haven't seen a 40A hvac in a ~1300 sqft space.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 10:15 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> It's likely that there isn't 40A load on the 40A breaker.  The A/C
> installer would have sized it high if they had any brains.   However, the
> full picture here is that a bigger generator might cost a few thousand
> more, but buying it too small means buying it twice.
>
> If you cut it too close you can have the engine have trouble starting,
> stall when loads change, and wear out sooner than expected.  IMO you don't
> want "big enough", you want "excessively big".  I know I've harped on this
> point before, but if your two hot legs are unbalanced then there's more
> resistance on one side of the generator than the otherthe smaller the
> generator the easier it is to have problems with that.  How many people are
> bothering to check how well balanced the two hot legs are on their electric
> panel?  I got educated about that problem by an 8Kw generator with 13A on
> one leg and 2A on the other.  The engine ran noisy and stalled every few
> minutes, and we had to hastily rewire to fix it.  A bigger engine wouldn't
> have cared so much.  Chuck's suggestion of ((load + 50%) *2) is good sense
> for all of the above reasons.
>
> Also pick a Sunday morning sometime and shut off your main breaker for a
> few hours to see how well your generator carries everything.  You can turn
> the breaker back on if there's a problem, but if there's a problem during
> an outage you just have to suffer until it's over.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> On 2/10/2020 9:59 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> Is that 40A HVAC an electric heater or something?  That's massive.
>
> I have a 30A two ton mini split that only pulls about 9 amps (110) at full
> throttle heat.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 9:04 AM  wrote:
>
>> If your HVAC is 240 then you have more HVAC load than that generator can
>> pull on just that one load.
>>
>> 40 amps x 240 Volts is 9600 Watts.
>>
>> 7.5 kW generac will only deliver 31 amps at 240 VAC  And you really don’t
>> want to load a generator up that much.  50% is a good derating factor.
>> Also,  generators publish their power output at sea level.
>>
>> Knock off 3% for every 1000’ above sea level and 2% for every 10 degrees
>> above 70 degrees F
>> Rounding up, you are close to 5000’ so that is 15% lost for altitude and
>> in the summer at 110 degrees that is another 8%.
>> So you lose as much as 23% of capacity  on a hot summer day.  Worse if
>> you power it from natural gas.
>>
>> I would add up all your loads, add 50% for growth then double that figure
>> for not loading the generator too much and to account for derating.
>>
>> The installation is the expensive part.  Don’t scrimp on kW at this stage
>> of the game.  Sounds to me like you need a 20 kW or more depending on your
>> true HVAC loads.
>>
>> *From:* Sterling Jacobson
>> *Sent:* Saturday, February 8, 2020 6:04 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Generator for office
>>
>>
>> I need a smaller footprint generator for my 1300 sqr foot office.
>>
>>
>>
>> Was thinking of getting the 50A 7.5KW Generac 6998 for $2050.00 that
>> includes the 50A transfer switch.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think my breakers has several 20A switches and 40A for the HVAC.
>>
>>
>>
>> Not sure if this would cover the power needed for the whole unit, or just
>> the fiber cabinet/rack I have that has max 20A circuit to it?
>>
>>
>>
>> The next highest power draw is probably the HVAC and/or water heater.
>>
>>
>>
>> The lights only draw about 500W since I switched them all to LED.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

[Adam Moffett]

It's likely that there isn't 40A load on the 40A breaker.  The A/C 
installer would have sized it high if they had any brains. However, the 
full picture here is that a bigger generator might cost a few thousand 
more, but buying it too small means buying it twice.


If you cut it too close you can have the engine have trouble starting, 
stall when loads change, and wear out sooner than expected.  IMO you 
don't want "big enough", you want "excessively big".  I know I've harped 
on this point before, but if your two hot legs are unbalanced then 
there's more resistance on one side of the generator than the 
otherthe smaller the generator the easier it is to have problems 
with that.  How many people are bothering to check how well balanced the 
two hot legs are on their electric panel?  I got educated about that 
problem by an 8Kw generator with 13A on one leg and 2A on the other.  
The engine ran noisy and stalled every few minutes, and we had to 
hastily rewire to fix it.  A bigger engine wouldn't have cared so much.  
Chuck's suggestion of ((load + 50%) *2) is good sense for all of the 
above reasons.


Also pick a Sunday morning sometime and shut off your main breaker for a 
few hours to see how well your generator carries everything.  You can 
turn the breaker back on if there's a problem, but if there's a problem 
during an outage you just have to suffer until it's over.


-Adam


On 2/10/2020 9:59 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Is that 40A HVAC an electric heater or something? That's massive.

I have a 30A two ton mini split that only pulls about 9 amps (110) at 
full throttle heat.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 9:04 AM > wrote:


If your HVAC is 240 then you have more HVAC load than that
generator can pull on just that one load.
40 amps x 240 Volts is 9600 Watts.
7.5 kW generac will only deliver 31 amps at 240 VAC  And you
really don’t want to load a generator up that much.  50% is a good
derating factor.  Also, generators publish their power output at
sea level.
Knock off 3% for every 1000’ above sea level and 2% for every 10
degrees above 70 degrees F
Rounding up, you are close to 5000’ so that is 15% lost for
altitude and in the summer at 110 degrees that is another 8%.
So you lose as much as 23% of capacity  on a hot summer day. 
Worse if you power it from natural gas.
I would add up all your loads, add 50% for growth then double that
figure for not loading the generator too much and to account for
derating.
The installation is the expensive part.  Don’t scrimp on kW at
this stage of the game.  Sounds to me like you need a 20 kW or
more depending on your true HVAC loads.
*From:* Sterling Jacobson
*Sent:* Saturday, February 8, 2020 6:04 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Generator for office

I need a smaller footprint generator for my 1300 sqr foot office.

Was thinking of getting the 50A 7.5KW Generac 6998 for $2050.00
that includes the 50A transfer switch.

I think my breakers has several 20A switches and 40A for the HVAC.

Not sure if this would cover the power needed for the whole unit,
or just the fiber cabinet/rack I have that has max 20A circuit to it?

The next highest power draw is probably the HVAC and/or water heater.

The lights only draw about 500W since I switched them all to LED.


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Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

[Josh Luthman]

Is that 40A HVAC an electric heater or something?  That's massive.

I have a 30A two ton mini split that only pulls about 9 amps (110) at full
throttle heat.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 9:04 AM  wrote:

> If your HVAC is 240 then you have more HVAC load than that generator can
> pull on just that one load.
>
> 40 amps x 240 Volts is 9600 Watts.
>
> 7.5 kW generac will only deliver 31 amps at 240 VAC  And you really don’t
> want to load a generator up that much.  50% is a good derating factor.
> Also,  generators publish their power output at sea level.
>
> Knock off 3% for every 1000’ above sea level and 2% for every 10 degrees
> above 70 degrees F
> Rounding up, you are close to 5000’ so that is 15% lost for altitude and
> in the summer at 110 degrees that is another 8%.
> So you lose as much as 23% of capacity  on a hot summer day.  Worse if you
> power it from natural gas.
>
> I would add up all your loads, add 50% for growth then double that figure
> for not loading the generator too much and to account for derating.
>
> The installation is the expensive part.  Don’t scrimp on kW at this stage
> of the game.  Sounds to me like you need a 20 kW or more depending on your
> true HVAC loads.
>
> *From:* Sterling Jacobson
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 8, 2020 6:04 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Generator for office
>
>
> I need a smaller footprint generator for my 1300 sqr foot office.
>
>
>
> Was thinking of getting the 50A 7.5KW Generac 6998 for $2050.00 that
> includes the 50A transfer switch.
>
>
>
> I think my breakers has several 20A switches and 40A for the HVAC.
>
>
>
> Not sure if this would cover the power needed for the whole unit, or just
> the fiber cabinet/rack I have that has max 20A circuit to it?
>
>
>
> The next highest power draw is probably the HVAC and/or water heater.
>
>
>
> The lights only draw about 500W since I switched them all to LED.
>
>
>
>
>
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator for office

[chuck]

If your HVAC is 240 then you have more HVAC load than that generator can pull 
on just that one load.  

40 amps x 240 Volts is 9600 Watts.  

7.5 kW generac will only deliver 31 amps at 240 VAC  And you really don’t want 
to load a generator up that much.  50% is a good derating factor.  Also,  
generators publish their power output at sea level.  

Knock off 3% for every 1000’ above sea level and 2% for every 10 degrees above 
70 degrees F
Rounding up, you are close to 5000’ so that is 15% lost for altitude and in the 
summer at 110 degrees that is another 8%.  
So you lose as much as 23% of capacity  on a hot summer day.  Worse if you 
power it from natural gas.  

I would add up all your loads, add 50% for growth then double that figure for 
not loading the generator too much and to account for derating.  

The installation is the expensive part.  Don’t scrimp on kW at this stage of 
the game.  Sounds to me like you need a 20 kW or more depending on your true 
HVAC loads.  

From: Sterling Jacobson 
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 6:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Generator for office

I need a smaller footprint generator for my 1300 sqr foot office.

 

Was thinking of getting the 50A 7.5KW Generac 6998 for $2050.00 that includes 
the 50A transfer switch.

 

I think my breakers has several 20A switches and 40A for the HVAC.

 

Not sure if this would cover the power needed for the whole unit, or just the 
fiber cabinet/rack I have that has max 20A circuit to it?

 

The next highest power draw is probably the HVAC and/or water heater.

 

The lights only draw about 500W since I switched them all to LED.

 

 




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Re: [AFMUG] Generator advice..

[Josh Baird]

Same as the one that I posted about?  The 7043?

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 10:09 AM can...@believewireless.net <
p...@believewireless.net> wrote:

> We are using the same generator and it is working just fine for our
> office. It handles our servers, heat and A/C without issues.
>
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 3:52 AM Mike Meluskey  wrote:
>
>> In the islands we get lots of power outages.
>> Our go-to generator for a site like you described is a 12.5kw diesel
>> generator.
>> Diesel is much easier to re-fuel after a disaster (ie. Cat5 Hurricane).
>> I became an expert at re-fueling, oil changes, priming, clogged fuel
>> filters, etc. after Hurricane Maria.
>> People with propane/natural gas generators could not get them re-filled
>> easily during our 2 - 3 months with no Utility power. Generac’s did not
>> hold up well, lots of fried circuit boards.
>>
>> Again, this was on a small island in the Caribbean. Generac natural gas
>> generators might be a good fit for your environment.
>>
>> On 30 Jan 2020, at 18:59, Nate Burke wrote:
>>
>> We've seen that too, running an (industrial) 120v garage door opener,
>> pulled one leg out of phase/voltage enough with the starting current that
>> the control board shutdown the generator (15kw diesel).   It ran a 5ton
>> 240v AC unit cycling on and off just fine.
>>
>> On 1/30/2020 4:49 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>
>> Using 240V AC may help with that.
>>
>> We had trouble where the generator had way more load on one hot leg than
>> the other.  It ran rough and stalled often.
>>
>>
>> On 1/30/2020 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> The only reason you might have trouble is the air conditioning starting
>> load.  I have seen them cause a generator to stall and die before.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 30, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Josh Baird 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> We're shopping for a generator for one of our larger POP's.  The
>> electrical contractor is recommending this:
>>
>>
>> 
>> https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/home-backup-generators/guardian-series/22kw-7043-whole-house-switch-wifi-enabled
>>
>> This would be supporting 4 30A circuits (powering 4 APC UPS) that are
>> currently drawing about 30A between them (powering network gear and
>> servers).  There is also one of the on-wall indoor/outdoor air conditioners
>> in this room - unsure what it's drawing.
>>
>> The contractor also seems to think that this generator, with a second
>> transfer switch can power the remainder of the small building which
>> includes some lighting, a refrigerator and some small electronics like
>> PC's, etc.
>>
>> Can someone who actually knows something about generators and this kind
>> of stuff give me some advice here?  Will this generator support our load
>> and not fall over?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator advice..

[Adam Moffett]

I should have thought of that.

On 1/31/2020 10:28 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
That is why I remote the battery inside to a heated area and put a 
better charger on it than comes with the generator. 


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Re: [AFMUG] Generator advice..

[Nate Burke]

We have a couple of the dualfuel generators.  I really like them. We've 
only ever used them with propane.  Small enough to carry around, and 
will run for over a day on a 30lb tank (with our normal site load), and 
we're somewhat suburban, so within 30 minutes I can get to a store that 
does propane tank exchanges.The thing I don't like about them is 
there is no 'weather proofing' on them. The outlets are just exposed on 
the side, along with all the control switches.  Maybe they're all 
sealed, but nothing says that.  I'm always worried about deploying them 
in a rain storm.  All the promo pieces show people using them on their 
picnics and RV's on bright sunny summer days.  Years ago, I had one of 
my gas generators fail during a sunny afternoon power outage.  At a 
landscaper, the tree sprinklers decided to turn on, and shorted out the 
generator, so I think that heavy rain might do the same thing.  Some 
simple weatherproofing would have prevented that, but I haven't seen any 
small portable generators that have that.


On 1/31/2020 9:28 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

The problems I have with diesels are as follow:
The fuel goes stale.  You can treat it but it still has problems with 
age.  Most of us want a large tank, but with just short weekly 
exercise cycles that fuel might be in the tank for years.
The fuel poses a hazardous clean up risk.  Both with refueling and 
with a fuel line break.  Huge problem if you are in a national forest 
or really any public land.
Fuels can gel and make the generator not start in zero and below zero 
conditions.  Also diesels are just notoriously hard to start when cold.
All liquid cooled generators I have ever seen have block heaters, but 
Murphy says that block heaters and engine start batteries will always 
fail prior to actually needing the generator.  I think I have had more 
trouble with the trickle chargers for the engine start batts than 
anything else. That is why I remote the battery inside to a heated 
area and put a better charger on it than comes with the generator.

But you can refuel them yourself.
There are tri fuel generator carburetors that will take gasoline, 
natural gas and propane.  To me that is the ultimate in redundant 
backups.

*From:* Nate Burke
*Sent:* Friday, January 31, 2020 8:14 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Generator advice..
What brand Diesel generator are you using?  Are they permanent or 
portable?


On 1/31/2020 2:51 AM, Mike Meluskey wrote:


In the islands we get lots of power outages.
Our go-to generator for a site like you described is a 12.5kw diesel 
generator.

Diesel is much easier to re-fuel after a disaster (ie. Cat5 Hurricane).
I became an expert at re-fueling, oil changes, priming, clogged fuel 
filters, etc. after Hurricane Maria.
People with propane/natural gas generators could not get them 
re-filled easily during our 2 - 3 months with no Utility power. 
Generac’s did not hold up well, lots of fried circuit boards.


Again, this was on a small island in the Caribbean. Generac natural 
gas generators might be a good fit for your environment.


On 30 Jan 2020, at 18:59, Nate Burke wrote:

We've seen that too, running an (industrial) 120v garage door
opener, pulled one leg out of phase/voltage enough with the
starting current that the control board shutdown the generator
(15kw diesel).   It ran a 5ton 240v AC unit cycling on and off
just fine.

On 1/30/2020 4:49 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:


Using 240V AC may help with that.

We had trouble where the generator had way more load on one hot
leg than the other.  It ran rough and stalled often.

On 1/30/2020 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

The only reason you might have trouble is the air conditioning
starting load.  I have seen them cause a generator to stall and
die before.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 30, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Josh Baird
mailto:joshba...@gmail.com wrote:


We're shopping for a generator for one of our larger POP's. 
The electrical contractor is recommending this:


https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/home-backup-generators/guardian-series/22kw-7043-whole-house-switch-wifi-enabled
This would be supporting 4 30A circuits (powering 4 APC UPS)
that are currently drawing about 30A between them (powering
network gear and servers).  There is also one of the on-wall
indoor/outdoor air conditioners in this room - unsure what
it's drawing.
The contractor also seems to think that this generator, with a
second transfer switch can power the remainder of the small
building which includes some lighting, a refrigerator and some
small electronics like PC's, etc.
Can someone who actually knows something about generators and
this kind of stuff give me some advice here?  Will this
generator support our load and not fall over?
Thanks!
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator advice..

[chuck]

The problems I have with diesels are as follow:

The fuel goes stale.  You can treat it but it still has problems with age.  
Most of us want a large tank, but with just short weekly exercise cycles that 
fuel might be in the tank for years.  

The fuel poses a hazardous clean up risk.  Both with refueling and with a fuel 
line break.  Huge problem if you are in a national forest or really any public 
land.  

Fuels can gel and make the generator not start in zero and below zero 
conditions.  Also diesels are just notoriously hard to start when cold.  

All liquid cooled generators I have ever seen have block heaters, but Murphy 
says that block heaters and engine start batteries will always fail prior to 
actually needing the generator.  I think I have had more trouble with the 
trickle chargers for the engine start batts than anything else.  That is why I 
remote the battery inside to a heated area and put a better charger on it than 
comes with the generator.  

But you can refuel them yourself. 

There are tri fuel generator carburetors that will take gasoline, natural gas 
and propane.  To me that is the ultimate in redundant backups.  

From: Nate Burke 
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 8:14 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator advice..

What brand Diesel generator are you using?  Are they permanent or portable?  


On 1/31/2020 2:51 AM, Mike Meluskey wrote:

  In the islands we get lots of power outages.
  Our go-to generator for a site like you described is a 12.5kw diesel 
generator.
  Diesel is much easier to re-fuel after a disaster (ie. Cat5 Hurricane).
  I became an expert at re-fueling, oil changes, priming, clogged fuel filters, 
etc. after Hurricane Maria.
  People with propane/natural gas generators could not get them re-filled 
easily during our 2 - 3 months with no Utility power. Generac’s did not hold up 
well, lots of fried circuit boards.

  Again, this was on a small island in the Caribbean. Generac natural gas 
generators might be a good fit for your environment.

  On 30 Jan 2020, at 18:59, Nate Burke wrote:

We've seen that too, running an (industrial) 120v garage door opener, 
pulled one leg out of phase/voltage enough with the starting current that the 
control board shutdown the generator (15kw diesel).   It ran a 5ton 240v AC 
unit cycling on and off just fine.  


On 1/30/2020 4:49 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

  Using 240V AC may help with that.

  We had trouble where the generator had way more load on one hot leg than 
the other.  It ran rough and stalled often.



  On 1/30/2020 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

The only reason you might have trouble is the air conditioning starting 
load.  I have seen them cause a generator to stall and die before.


Sent from my iPhone


  On Jan 30, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Josh Baird mailto:joshba...@gmail.com 
wrote:


   
  We're shopping for a generator for one of our larger POP's.  The 
electrical contractor is recommending this: 

  
https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/home-backup-generators/guardian-series/22kw-7043-whole-house-switch-wifi-enabled


  This would be supporting 4 30A circuits (powering 4 APC UPS) that are 
currently drawing about 30A between them (powering network gear and servers).  
There is also one of the on-wall indoor/outdoor air conditioners in this room - 
unsure what it's drawing.

  The contractor also seems to think that this generator, with a second 
transfer switch can power the remainder of the small building which includes 
some lighting, a refrigerator and some small electronics like PC's, etc.

  Can someone who actually knows something about generators and this 
kind of stuff give me some advice here?  Will this generator support our load 
and not fall over?

  Thanks!
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator advice..

[Mike Meluskey]

We were buying Hardy Diesel, with Perkins engines.
Permanent.
Two at our main hub tower.

On 31 Jan 2020, at 11:14, Nate Burke wrote:

What brand Diesel generator are you using?  Are they permanent or 
portable?


On 1/31/2020 2:51 AM, Mike Meluskey wrote:


In the islands we get lots of power outages.
Our go-to generator for a site like you described is a 12.5kw diesel 
generator.
Diesel is much easier to re-fuel after a disaster (ie. Cat5 
Hurricane).
I became an expert at re-fueling, oil changes, priming, clogged fuel 
filters, etc. after Hurricane Maria.
People with propane/natural gas generators could not get them 
re-filled easily during our 2 - 3 months with no Utility power. 
Generac’s did not hold up well, lots of fried circuit boards.


Again, this was on a small island in the Caribbean. Generac natural 
gas generators might be a good fit for your environment.


On 30 Jan 2020, at 18:59, Nate Burke wrote:

We've seen that too, running an (industrial) 120v garage door
opener, pulled one leg out of phase/voltage enough with the
starting current that the control board shutdown the generator
(15kw diesel).   It ran a 5ton 240v AC unit cycling on and off
just fine.

On 1/30/2020 4:49 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:


Using 240V AC may help with that.

We had trouble where the generator had way more load on one hot
leg than the other.  It ran rough and stalled often.


On 1/30/2020 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

The only reason you might have trouble is the air conditioning
starting load.  I have seen them cause a generator to stall and
die before.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 30, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Josh Baird 
wrote:


We're shopping for a generator for one of our larger POP's.
 The electrical contractor is recommending this:



https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/home-backup-generators/guardian-series/22kw-7043-whole-house-switch-wifi-enabled

This would be supporting 4 30A circuits (powering 4 APC UPS)
that are currently drawing about 30A between them (powering
network gear and servers).  There is also one of the on-wall
indoor/outdoor air conditioners in this room - unsure what 
it's

drawing.

The contractor also seems to think that this generator, with a
second transfer switch can power the remainder of the small
building which includes some lighting, a refrigerator and some
small electronics like PC's, etc.

Can someone who actually knows something about generators and
this kind of stuff give me some advice here?  Will this
generator support our load and not fall over?

Thanks!
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator advice..

[Nate Burke]

What brand Diesel generator are you using?  Are they permanent or portable?

On 1/31/2020 2:51 AM, Mike Meluskey wrote:


In the islands we get lots of power outages.
Our go-to generator for a site like you described is a 12.5kw diesel 
generator.

Diesel is much easier to re-fuel after a disaster (ie. Cat5 Hurricane).
I became an expert at re-fueling, oil changes, priming, clogged fuel 
filters, etc. after Hurricane Maria.
People with propane/natural gas generators could not get them 
re-filled easily during our 2 - 3 months with no Utility power. 
Generac’s did not hold up well, lots of fried circuit boards.


Again, this was on a small island in the Caribbean. Generac natural 
gas generators might be a good fit for your environment.


On 30 Jan 2020, at 18:59, Nate Burke wrote:

We've seen that too, running an (industrial) 120v garage door
opener, pulled one leg out of phase/voltage enough with the
starting current that the control board shutdown the generator
(15kw diesel).   It ran a 5ton 240v AC unit cycling on and off
just fine.

On 1/30/2020 4:49 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:


Using 240V AC may help with that.

We had trouble where the generator had way more load on one hot
leg than the other.  It ran rough and stalled often.


On 1/30/2020 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

The only reason you might have trouble is the air conditioning
starting load.  I have seen them cause a generator to stall and
die before.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 30, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Josh Baird 
wrote:


We're shopping for a generator for one of our larger POP's. 
The electrical contractor is recommending this:



https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/home-backup-generators/guardian-series/22kw-7043-whole-house-switch-wifi-enabled

This would be supporting 4 30A circuits (powering 4 APC UPS)
that are currently drawing about 30A between them (powering
network gear and servers).  There is also one of the on-wall
indoor/outdoor air conditioners in this room - unsure what it's
drawing.

The contractor also seems to think that this generator, with a
second transfer switch can power the remainder of the small
building which includes some lighting, a refrigerator and some
small electronics like PC's, etc.

Can someone who actually knows something about generators and
this kind of stuff give me some advice here?  Will this
generator support our load and not fall over?

Thanks!
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator advice..

[can...@believewireless.net]

We are using the same generator and it is working just fine for our office.
It handles our servers, heat and A/C without issues.

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 3:52 AM Mike Meluskey  wrote:

> In the islands we get lots of power outages.
> Our go-to generator for a site like you described is a 12.5kw diesel
> generator.
> Diesel is much easier to re-fuel after a disaster (ie. Cat5 Hurricane).
> I became an expert at re-fueling, oil changes, priming, clogged fuel
> filters, etc. after Hurricane Maria.
> People with propane/natural gas generators could not get them re-filled
> easily during our 2 - 3 months with no Utility power. Generac’s did not
> hold up well, lots of fried circuit boards.
>
> Again, this was on a small island in the Caribbean. Generac natural gas
> generators might be a good fit for your environment.
>
> On 30 Jan 2020, at 18:59, Nate Burke wrote:
>
> We've seen that too, running an (industrial) 120v garage door opener,
> pulled one leg out of phase/voltage enough with the starting current that
> the control board shutdown the generator (15kw diesel).   It ran a 5ton
> 240v AC unit cycling on and off just fine.
>
> On 1/30/2020 4:49 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> Using 240V AC may help with that.
>
> We had trouble where the generator had way more load on one hot leg than
> the other.  It ran rough and stalled often.
>
>
> On 1/30/2020 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> The only reason you might have trouble is the air conditioning starting
> load.  I have seen them cause a generator to stall and die before.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 30, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Josh Baird 
>  wrote:
>
> 
> We're shopping for a generator for one of our larger POP's.  The
> electrical contractor is recommending this:
>
>
> 
> https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/home-backup-generators/guardian-series/22kw-7043-whole-house-switch-wifi-enabled
>
> This would be supporting 4 30A circuits (powering 4 APC UPS) that are
> currently drawing about 30A between them (powering network gear and
> servers).  There is also one of the on-wall indoor/outdoor air conditioners
> in this room - unsure what it's drawing.
>
> The contractor also seems to think that this generator, with a second
> transfer switch can power the remainder of the small building which
> includes some lighting, a refrigerator and some small electronics like
> PC's, etc.
>
> Can someone who actually knows something about generators and this kind of
> stuff give me some advice here?  Will this generator support our load and
> not fall over?
>
> Thanks!
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator advice..

[Mike Meluskey]

In the islands we get lots of power outages.
Our go-to generator for a site like you described is a 12.5kw diesel 
generator.

Diesel is much easier to re-fuel after a disaster (ie. Cat5 Hurricane).
I became an expert at re-fueling, oil changes, priming, clogged fuel 
filters, etc. after Hurricane Maria.
People with propane/natural gas generators could not get them re-filled 
easily during our 2 - 3 months with no Utility power.  Generac’s did 
not hold up well, lots of fried circuit boards.


Again, this was on a small island in the Caribbean.  Generac natural gas 
generators might be a good fit for your environment.


On 30 Jan 2020, at 18:59, Nate Burke wrote:

We've seen that too, running an (industrial) 120v garage door opener, 
pulled one leg out of phase/voltage enough with the starting current 
that the control board shutdown the generator (15kw diesel).   It ran 
a 5ton 240v AC unit cycling on and off just fine.


On 1/30/2020 4:49 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:


Using 240V AC may help with that.

We had trouble where the generator had way more load on one hot leg 
than the other.  It ran rough and stalled often.



On 1/30/2020 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
The only reason you might have trouble is the air conditioning 
starting load.  I have seen them cause a generator to stall and die 
before.


Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 30, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Josh Baird  
wrote:



We're shopping for a generator for one of our larger POP's.  The 
electrical contractor is recommending this:


https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/home-backup-generators/guardian-series/22kw-7043-whole-house-switch-wifi-enabled

This would be supporting 4 30A circuits (powering 4 APC UPS) that 
are currently drawing about 30A between them (powering network gear 
and servers).  There is also one of the on-wall indoor/outdoor air 
conditioners in this room - unsure what it's drawing.


The contractor also seems to think that this generator, with a 
second transfer switch can power the remainder of the small 
building which includes some lighting, a refrigerator and some 
small electronics like PC's, etc.


Can someone who actually knows something about generators and this 
kind of stuff give me some advice here?  Will this generator 
support our load and not fall over?


Thanks!
--
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com









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Re: [AFMUG] Generator advice..

[Nate Burke]

We've seen that too, running an (industrial) 120v garage door opener, 
pulled one leg out of phase/voltage enough with the starting current 
that the control board shutdown the generator (15kw diesel).   It ran a 
5ton 240v AC unit cycling on and off just fine.


On 1/30/2020 4:49 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:


Using 240V AC may help with that.

We had trouble where the generator had way more load on one hot leg 
than the other.  It ran rough and stalled often.



On 1/30/2020 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
The only reason you might have trouble is the air conditioning 
starting load.  I have seen them cause a generator to stall and die 
before.


Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 30, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:


We're shopping for a generator for one of our larger POP's.  The 
electrical contractor is recommending this:


https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/home-backup-generators/guardian-series/22kw-7043-whole-house-switch-wifi-enabled

This would be supporting 4 30A circuits (powering 4 APC UPS) that 
are currently drawing about 30A between them (powering network gear 
and servers).  There is also one of the on-wall indoor/outdoor air 
conditioners in this room - unsure what it's drawing.


The contractor also seems to think that this generator, with a 
second transfer switch can power the remainder of the small building 
which includes some lighting, a refrigerator and some small 
electronics like PC's, etc.


Can someone who actually knows something about generators and this 
kind of stuff give me some advice here?  Will this generator support 
our load and not fall over?


Thanks!
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator advice..

[Adam Moffett]

Using 240V AC may help with that.

We had trouble where the generator had way more load on one hot leg than 
the other.  It ran rough and stalled often.



On 1/30/2020 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
The only reason you might have trouble is the air conditioning 
starting load.  I have seen them cause a generator to stall and die 
before.


Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 30, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:


We're shopping for a generator for one of our larger POP's.  The 
electrical contractor is recommending this:


https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/home-backup-generators/guardian-series/22kw-7043-whole-house-switch-wifi-enabled

This would be supporting 4 30A circuits (powering 4 APC UPS) that are 
currently drawing about 30A between them (powering network gear and 
servers).  There is also one of the on-wall indoor/outdoor air 
conditioners in this room - unsure what it's drawing.


The contractor also seems to think that this generator, with a second 
transfer switch can power the remainder of the small building which 
includes some lighting, a refrigerator and some small electronics 
like PC's, etc.


Can someone who actually knows something about generators and this 
kind of stuff give me some advice here?  Will this generator support 
our load and not fall over?


Thanks!
--
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator advice..

[Chuck McCown]

The only reason you might have trouble is the air conditioning starting load.  
I have seen them cause a generator to stall and die before.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 30, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:
> 
> 
> We're shopping for a generator for one of our larger POP's.  The electrical 
> contractor is recommending this:
> 
> https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/home-backup-generators/guardian-series/22kw-7043-whole-house-switch-wifi-enabled
> 
> This would be supporting 4 30A circuits (powering 4 APC UPS) that are 
> currently drawing about 30A between them (powering network gear and servers). 
>  There is also one of the on-wall indoor/outdoor air conditioners in this 
> room - unsure what it's drawing.
> 
> The contractor also seems to think that this generator, with a second 
> transfer switch can power the remainder of the small building which includes 
> some lighting, a refrigerator and some small electronics like PC's, etc.
> 
> Can someone who actually knows something about generators and this kind of 
> stuff give me some advice here?  Will this generator support our load and not 
> fall over?
> 
> Thanks!
> -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator advice.

[Ryan McAfee]

I have this 22kw on LP (no wifi), 3 years old, running the whole house. So
far I love it.
It's also running my tower a few hundred feet from the house. No issues
with the servers I run on it.
My mini-split is fine with it as is my big whole-house heat-pump (never
tried it with the heat strips on, though).

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 3:16 PM  wrote:

>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 16:15:46 -0500
> From: Josh Baird 
> To: AFMUG 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Generator advice..
> Message-ID:
>  own8hjzp3tjyrq...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> We're shopping for a generator for one of our larger POP's.  The electrical
> contractor is recommending this:
>
>
> https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/home-backup-generators/guardian-series/22kw-7043-whole-house-switch-wifi-enabled
>
> This would be supporting 4 30A circuits (powering 4 APC UPS) that are
> currently drawing about 30A between them (powering network gear and
> servers).  There is also one of the on-wall indoor/outdoor air conditioners
> in this room - unsure what it's drawing.
>
> The contractor also seems to think that this generator, with a second
> transfer switch can power the remainder of the small building which
> includes some lighting, a refrigerator and some small electronics like
> PC's, etc.
>
> Can someone who actually knows something about generators and this kind of
> stuff give me some advice here?  Will this generator support our load and
> not fall over?
>
> Thanks!
> -- next part --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/private/af_af.afmug.com/attachments/20200130/2f642504/attachment.html
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> End of AF Digest, Vol 20, Issue 515
> ***
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Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

[Sean Heskett]

not sure yet gino, he's building a quote based on the solar sites we have.
 i'll let you know what i find out.  doesn't look promising tho.

On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 10:59 AM Gino A. Villarini 
wrote:

> $20k for a single 250W unit?
>
>
>
> *From: *AF  on behalf of Sean Heskett <
> af...@zirkel.us>
> *Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Date: *Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at 11:19 AM
> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions
>
>
>
> called the guy, he said ~$20k but considering that we have now run thru 2
> x $5k generators in the last few years at our current sites that might not
> be so bad.  he's sending more info
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 10, 2019 at 10:01 AM Gino A. Villarini 
> wrote:
>
> Any idea on pricing?
>
>
>
> *Gino** Villarini *
> Founder/President
> @gvillarini
> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
> m:
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. aeronet-logo] <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. inc500]
> <https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. fb-logo]
> <https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr/>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. insta-logo]
> <https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/?hl=en>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. in-logo]
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. tw-logo]
> <https://twitter.com/AeroNetPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor>
>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. yt-logo]
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr2Q9WBrAYVm3Fn970Jd6VA>
>
> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>
> *From: *AF  on behalf of Ken Hohhof <
> af...@kwisp.com>
> *Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Date: *Monday, September 9, 2019 at 8:09 PM
> *To: *'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions
>
>
>
> I seem to  remember there was discussion here about fuel cells at one
> point.  Doing a Google search and clicking on a result at random, I see
> this:
>
> http://www.redhawkenergy.net/adaptivesofc.html
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Daniel White
> *Sent:* Monday, September 9, 2019 6:59 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions
>
>
>
> The Long Lines sites I've visited in Colorado at that altitude had diesel
> generators but they were also not off-grid.  I know the comm site at
> Almagre Mountain was a huge remediation issue with the diesel tanks there.
>
> Check out the Cummins Onan 5.5HGJAE-2144.  Since it is designed for RV
> type applications it has a dedicated exhaust port.
>
>
>
> *Error! Filename not specified.*
>
>
> *Daniel White *Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations
>
> *phone:* +1 (702) 470-2766
> *direct:* +1 (702) 470-2770
>
> Sean Heskett wrote on 9/9/19 16:13:
>
> Hello fellow borg members,
>
>
>
> We will be building an off grid (solar) tower site at 10,000 feet MSL that
> receives over 500 inches of snow and has a typical settled snow depth of 10
> feet. (I know, we are crazy, but people need internet lol ;)
>
>
>
> Because of the deep snow it will be necessary to put the generator inside
> the telecom shelter that we are building, otherwise it would get buried.
> It also needs to be propane because at that altitude and temp diesel fuel
> will gel up and refuse to start. At other sites we have typically used a
> Generac Ecogen 15kW propane generator.  Everyone I talk to says "you can't
> put a generator indoors" but in this case I have to, and this isn't living
> space this is a telecom shelter on the top of a mountain.  The Ecogen seems
> un-good for this application because it doesn't seem to have one small
> exhaust port, it's the whole side of the unit.
>
>
>
> So i'm looking for a propane generator that is:
>
> 1. 5kW or bigger
>
> 2.  has 2 wire start (it needs to be smart enough to handle the choke and
> throttle etc. to start when i close a relay)
>
> 3. can be installed inside the shelter
>
> 4. is super reliable because i don't want to visit this site in the winter
>
>
>
> any ideas??
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> sean
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Disclaimer*
>
> The information contained in this communication from the sender is
> confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others
> authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or

Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

[Gino A. Villarini]

$20k for a single 250W unit?

From: AF  on behalf of Sean Heskett 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Date: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at 11:19 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

called the guy, he said ~$20k but considering that we have now run thru 2 x $5k 
generators in the last few years at our current sites that might not be so bad. 
 he's sending more info

On Tue, Sep 10, 2019 at 10:01 AM Gino A. Villarini 
mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>> wrote:
Any idea on pricing?


Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
m:
[Image removed by sender. aeronet-logo]<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
[Image removed by sender. inc500]<https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet>
[Image removed by sender. fb-logo]<https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr/>
[Image removed by sender. 
insta-logo]<https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/?hl=en>
[Image removed by sender. 
in-logo]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp>
[Image removed by sender. 
tw-logo]<https://twitter.com/AeroNetPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor>
[Image removed by sender. 
yt-logo]<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr2Q9WBrAYVm3Fn970Jd6VA>
www.aeronetpr.com<http://www.aeronetpr.com> | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 
Guaynabo, PR 00968
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> on behalf of 
Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Date: Monday, September 9, 2019 at 8:09 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

I seem to  remember there was discussion here about fuel cells at one point.  
Doing a Google search and clicking on a result at random, I see this:
http://www.redhawkenergy.net/adaptivesofc.html<http://www.redhawkenergy.net/adaptivesofc.html>


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Daniel White
Sent: Monday, September 9, 2019 6:59 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

The Long Lines sites I've visited in Colorado at that altitude had diesel 
generators but they were also not off-grid.  I know the comm site at Almagre 
Mountain was a huge remediation issue with the diesel tanks there.

Check out the Cummins Onan 5.5HGJAE-2144.  Since it is designed for RV type 
applications it has a dedicated exhaust port.

Error! Filename not specified.
Daniel White
Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations
phone: +1 (702) 470-2766
direct: +1 (702) 470-2770
Sean Heskett wrote on 9/9/19 16:13:

Hello fellow borg members,

We will be building an off grid (solar) tower site at 10,000 feet MSL that 
receives over 500 inches of snow and has a typical settled snow depth of 10 
feet. (I know, we are crazy, but people need internet lol ;)

Because of the deep snow it will be necessary to put the generator inside the 
telecom shelter that we are building, otherwise it would get buried.  It also 
needs to be propane because at that altitude and temp diesel fuel will gel up 
and refuse to start. At other sites we have typically used a Generac Ecogen 
15kW propane generator.  Everyone I talk to says "you can't put a generator 
indoors" but in this case I have to, and this isn't living space this is a 
telecom shelter on the top of a mountain.  The Ecogen seems un-good for this 
application because it doesn't seem to have one small exhaust port, it's the 
whole side of the unit.

So i'm looking for a propane generator that is:
1. 5kW or bigger
2.  has 2 wire start (it needs to be smart enough to handle the choke and 
throttle etc. to start when i close a relay)
3. can be installed inside the shelter
4. is super reliable because i don't want to visit this site in the winter

any ideas??

Thanks,
sean






Disclaimer

The information contained in this communication from the sender is 
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Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

[chuck]

All the generators I put inside were all generacs with automatic transfer 
switches.  15 to 30 kW.  But you will need to pay attention to cooling air flow 
and make sure to duct it appropriately.  The liquid cooled units are easier to 
duct.  

From: Sean Heskett 
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 9:16 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

yes thank you for bringing up the carbon monoxide risks.  that's why i'm 
looking for a generator that's deigned to be installed inside.  when i call 
generac they say no, can't be done unless you order the generator that can 
literally power a small city. 

we are working with an architect to design the building with the generator in a 
separate well ventilated room.  but he needs to design around what generator we 
are using, hence my search.  we need one with an exhaust pipe that can be 
connected to an outdoor vent.  since it's  a solar site the generator won't be 
running much, it's just there to boost the batts when we get long periods of no 
sun.  when the generator is running extra fans will turn on.  also the building 
will be equipped with CO detectors.  

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 6:51 PM Robert  wrote:

  Please don't put it in an area that any personnel are likely to take shelter 
in.   We lost two good radio techs out this way last year due to that.  Was 
supposed to be safe for them.  Killed them before they could drink 1/2 cup of 
coffee...


  On 9/9/19 4:58 PM, Daniel White wrote:

The Long Lines sites I've visited in Colorado at that altitude had diesel 
generators but they were also not off-grid.  I know the comm site at Almagre 
Mountain was a huge remediation issue with the diesel tanks there.

Check out the Cummins Onan 5.5HGJAE-2144.  Since it is designed for RV type 
applications it has a dedicated exhaust port.


 Daniel White
Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations 
phone: +1 (702) 470-2766
direct: +1 (702) 470-2770
   
 

Sean Heskett wrote on 9/9/19 16:13:

  Hello fellow borg members, 

  We will be building an off grid (solar) tower site at 10,000 feet MSL 
that receives over 500 inches of snow and has a typical settled snow depth of 
10 feet. (I know, we are crazy, but people need internet lol ;)  

  Because of the deep snow it will be necessary to put the generator inside 
the telecom shelter that we are building, otherwise it would get buried.  It 
also needs to be propane because at that altitude and temp diesel fuel will gel 
up and refuse to start. At other sites we have typically used a Generac Ecogen 
15kW propane generator.  Everyone I talk to says "you can't put a generator 
indoors" but in this case I have to, and this isn't living space this is a 
telecom shelter on the top of a mountain.  The Ecogen seems un-good for this 
application because it doesn't seem to have one small exhaust port, it's the 
whole side of the unit.  

  So i'm looking for a propane generator that is:
  1. 5kW or bigger
  2.  has 2 wire start (it needs to be smart enough to handle the choke and 
throttle etc. to start when i close a relay)
  3. can be installed inside the shelter
  4. is super reliable because i don't want to visit this site in the winter

  any ideas??

  Thanks,
  sean


   




 


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Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

[Sean Heskett]

called the guy, he said ~$20k but considering that we have now run thru 2 x
$5k generators in the last few years at our current sites that might not be
so bad.  he's sending more info

On Tue, Sep 10, 2019 at 10:01 AM Gino A. Villarini 
wrote:

> Any idea on pricing?
>
>
>
> *Gino*
> *Villarini *Founder/President
> @gvillarini
> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
> m:
> [image: aeronet-logo] <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> [image: inc500]
> <https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet> [image: fb-logo]
> <https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr/>  [image: insta-logo]
> <https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/?hl=en>  [image: in-logo]
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp>  [image:
> tw-logo]
> <https://twitter.com/AeroNetPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor>
>   [image: yt-logo]
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr2Q9WBrAYVm3Fn970Jd6VA>
> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>
> *From: *AF  on behalf of Ken Hohhof <
> af...@kwisp.com>
> *Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Date: *Monday, September 9, 2019 at 8:09 PM
> *To: *'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions
>
>
>
> I seem to  remember there was discussion here about fuel cells at one
> point.  Doing a Google search and clicking on a result at random, I see
> this:
>
> http://www.redhawkenergy.net/adaptivesofc.html
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Daniel White
> *Sent:* Monday, September 9, 2019 6:59 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions
>
>
>
> The Long Lines sites I've visited in Colorado at that altitude had diesel
> generators but they were also not off-grid.  I know the comm site at
> Almagre Mountain was a huge remediation issue with the diesel tanks there.
>
> Check out the Cummins Onan 5.5HGJAE-2144.  Since it is designed for RV
> type applications it has a dedicated exhaust port.
>
>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. photograph]
>
>
> *Daniel White *Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations
>
> *phone:* +1 (702) 470-2766
> *direct:* +1 (702) 470-2770
>
> Sean Heskett wrote on 9/9/19 16:13:
>
>
> Hello fellow borg members,
>
>
>
> We will be building an off grid (solar) tower site at 10,000 feet MSL that
> receives over 500 inches of snow and has a typical settled snow depth of 10
> feet. (I know, we are crazy, but people need internet lol ;)
>
>
>
> Because of the deep snow it will be necessary to put the generator inside
> the telecom shelter that we are building, otherwise it would get buried.
> It also needs to be propane because at that altitude and temp diesel fuel
> will gel up and refuse to start. At other sites we have typically used a
> Generac Ecogen 15kW propane generator.  Everyone I talk to says "you can't
> put a generator indoors" but in this case I have to, and this isn't living
> space this is a telecom shelter on the top of a mountain.  The Ecogen seems
> un-good for this application because it doesn't seem to have one small
> exhaust port, it's the whole side of the unit.
>
>
>
> So i'm looking for a propane generator that is:
>
> 1. 5kW or bigger
>
> 2.  has 2 wire start (it needs to be smart enough to handle the choke and
> throttle etc. to start when i close a relay)
>
> 3. can be installed inside the shelter
>
> 4. is super reliable because i don't want to visit this site in the winter
>
>
>
> any ideas??
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> sean
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Disclaimer*
>
> The information contained in this communication from the sender is
> confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others
> authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in
> relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may
> be unlawful.
>
> This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been
> automatically archived by *Mimecast Ltd*, an innovator in Software as a
> Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a *safer* and *more useful* place
> for your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and
> compliance. To find out more Click Here
> <http://www.mimecast.com/products/>.
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Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

[Sean Heskett]

yes thank you for bringing up the carbon monoxide risks.  that's why i'm
looking for a generator that's deigned to be installed inside.  when i call
generac they say no, can't be done unless you order the generator that can
literally power a small city.

we are working with an architect to design the building with the generator
in a separate well ventilated room.  but he needs to design around what
generator we are using, hence my search.  we need one with an exhaust pipe
that can be connected to an outdoor vent.  since it's  a solar site the
generator won't be running much, it's just there to boost the batts when we
get long periods of no sun.  when the generator is running extra fans will
turn on.  also the building will be equipped with CO detectors.

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 6:51 PM Robert  wrote:

> Please don't put it in an area that any personnel are likely to take
> shelter in.   We lost two good radio techs out this way last year due to
> that.  Was supposed to be safe for them.  Killed them before they could
> drink 1/2 cup of coffee...
>
> On 9/9/19 4:58 PM, Daniel White wrote:
>
> The Long Lines sites I've visited in Colorado at that altitude had diesel
> generators but they were also not off-grid.  I know the comm site at
> Almagre Mountain was a huge remediation issue with the diesel tanks there.
>
> Check out the Cummins Onan 5.5HGJAE-2144.  Since it is designed for RV
> type applications it has a dedicated exhaust port.
>
> [image: photograph]
> Daniel White
> Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations
> phone: +1 (702) 470-2766
> direct: +1 (702) 470-2770
> Sean Heskett wrote on 9/9/19 16:13:
>
> Hello fellow borg members,
>
> We will be building an off grid (solar) tower site at 10,000 feet MSL that
> receives over 500 inches of snow and has a typical settled snow depth of 10
> feet. (I know, we are crazy, but people need internet lol ;)
>
> Because of the deep snow it will be necessary to put the generator inside
> the telecom shelter that we are building, otherwise it would get buried.
> It also needs to be propane because at that altitude and temp diesel fuel
> will gel up and refuse to start. At other sites we have typically used a
> Generac Ecogen 15kW propane generator.  Everyone I talk to says "you can't
> put a generator indoors" but in this case I have to, and this isn't living
> space this is a telecom shelter on the top of a mountain.  The Ecogen seems
> un-good for this application because it doesn't seem to have one small
> exhaust port, it's the whole side of the unit.
>
> So i'm looking for a propane generator that is:
> 1. 5kW or bigger
> 2.  has 2 wire start (it needs to be smart enough to handle the choke and
> throttle etc. to start when i close a relay)
> 3. can be installed inside the shelter
> 4. is super reliable because i don't want to visit this site in the winter
>
> any ideas??
>
> Thanks,
> sean
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

[Gino A. Villarini]

Any idea on pricing?


Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
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Guaynabo, PR 00968
From: AF  on behalf of Ken Hohhof 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Date: Monday, September 9, 2019 at 8:09 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

I seem to  remember there was discussion here about fuel cells at one point.  
Doing a Google search and clicking on a result at random, I see this:
http://www.redhawkenergy.net/adaptivesofc.html<http://www.redhawkenergy.net/adaptivesofc.html>


From: AF  On Behalf Of Daniel White
Sent: Monday, September 9, 2019 6:59 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

The Long Lines sites I've visited in Colorado at that altitude had diesel 
generators but they were also not off-grid.  I know the comm site at Almagre 
Mountain was a huge remediation issue with the diesel tanks there.

Check out the Cummins Onan 5.5HGJAE-2144.  Since it is designed for RV type 
applications it has a dedicated exhaust port.

[cid:~WRD000.jpg]

Daniel White
Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations

phone: +1 (702) 470-2766
direct: +1 (702) 470-2770



Sean Heskett wrote on 9/9/19 16:13:


Hello fellow borg members,

We will be building an off grid (solar) tower site at 10,000 feet MSL that 
receives over 500 inches of snow and has a typical settled snow depth of 10 
feet. (I know, we are crazy, but people need internet lol ;)

Because of the deep snow it will be necessary to put the generator inside the 
telecom shelter that we are building, otherwise it would get buried.  It also 
needs to be propane because at that altitude and temp diesel fuel will gel up 
and refuse to start. At other sites we have typically used a Generac Ecogen 
15kW propane generator.  Everyone I talk to says "you can't put a generator 
indoors" but in this case I have to, and this isn't living space this is a 
telecom shelter on the top of a mountain.  The Ecogen seems un-good for this 
application because it doesn't seem to have one small exhaust port, it's the 
whole side of the unit.

So i'm looking for a propane generator that is:
1. 5kW or bigger
2.  has 2 wire start (it needs to be smart enough to handle the choke and 
throttle etc. to start when i close a relay)
3. can be installed inside the shelter
4. is super reliable because i don't want to visit this site in the winter

any ideas??

Thanks,
sean

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Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

[chuck]

In snow country I have mounted outdoor rated generators on an 8’ tall pedestal. 
 

From: Daniel White 
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2019 8:36 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

Every indoor generator I've ever seen has been in a separate, ventilated room 
from the telecom equipment.  I'd also rig up an exhaust fan as well if the 
generator is running.  Even better would be to put it in a separate building if 
you are building from scratch.


 Daniel White
Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations 
phone: +1 (702) 470-2766
direct: +1 (702) 470-2770
   
 

Chuck McCown wrote on 9/9/19 19:03:

  That’s horrible.  We always had the generators in a separate room.  One end 
of the shelter was walled off just for the generator.  But good point, 
sometimes you get stranded on mountaintops.  I have had carbon monoxide 
poisoning twice and did not notice it coming on.  Obviously I was lucky both 
times.  

  I guess a good CO detector would be a must.  

  From: Robert 
  Sent: Monday, September 09, 2019 6:51 PM
  To: af@af.afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

  Please don't put it in an area that any personnel are likely to take shelter 
in.   We lost two good radio techs out this way last year due to that.  Was 
supposed to be safe for them.  Killed them before they could drink 1/2 cup of 
coffee...


  On 9/9/19 4:58 PM, Daniel White wrote:

The Long Lines sites I've visited in Colorado at that altitude had diesel 
generators but they were also not off-grid.  I know the comm site at Almagre 
Mountain was a huge remediation issue with the diesel tanks there.

Check out the Cummins Onan 5.5HGJAE-2144.  Since it is designed for RV type 
applications it has a dedicated exhaust port.


 Daniel White
Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations 
phone: +1 (702) 470-2766
direct: +1 (702) 470-2770
   
 

Sean Heskett wrote on 9/9/19 16:13:

  Hello fellow borg members, 

  We will be building an off grid (solar) tower site at 10,000 feet MSL 
that receives over 500 inches of snow and has a typical settled snow depth of 
10 feet. (I know, we are crazy, but people need internet lol ;)  

  Because of the deep snow it will be necessary to put the generator inside 
the telecom shelter that we are building, otherwise it would get buried.  It 
also needs to be propane because at that altitude and temp diesel fuel will gel 
up and refuse to start. At other sites we have typically used a Generac Ecogen 
15kW propane generator.  Everyone I talk to says "you can't put a generator 
indoors" but in this case I have to, and this isn't living space this is a 
telecom shelter on the top of a mountain.  The Ecogen seems un-good for this 
application because it doesn't seem to have one small exhaust port, it's the 
whole side of the unit.  

  So i'm looking for a propane generator that is:
  1. 5kW or bigger
  2.  has 2 wire start (it needs to be smart enough to handle the choke and 
throttle etc. to start when i close a relay)
  3. can be installed inside the shelter
  4. is super reliable because i don't want to visit this site in the winter

  any ideas??

  Thanks,
  sean


   







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Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

[Daniel White]

Every indoor generator I've ever seen has been in a separate, ventilated 
room from the telecom equipment.  I'd also rig up an exhaust fan as well 
if the generator is running.  Even better would be to put it in a 
separate building if you are building from scratch.


photograph  
Daniel White
Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations
phone: +1 (702) 470-2766
direct:+1 (702) 470-2770

Chuck McCown wrote on 9/9/19 19:03:
That’s horrible.  We always had the generators in a separate room.  
One end of the shelter was walled off just for the generator. But good 
point, sometimes you get stranded on mountaintops.  I have had carbon 
monoxide poisoning twice and did not notice it coming on. Obviously I 
was lucky both times.

I guess a good CO detector would be a must.
*From:* Robert
*Sent:* Monday, September 09, 2019 6:51 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions
Please don't put it in an area that any personnel are likely to take 
shelter in.   We lost two good radio techs out this way last year due 
to that.  Was supposed to be safe for them.  Killed them before they 
could drink 1/2 cup of coffee...


On 9/9/19 4:58 PM, Daniel White wrote:
The Long Lines sites I've visited in Colorado at that altitude had 
diesel generators but they were also not off-grid.  I know the comm 
site at Almagre Mountain was a huge remediation issue with the diesel 
tanks there.


Check out the Cummins Onan 5.5HGJAE-2144.  Since it is designed for 
RV type applications it has a dedicated exhaust port.


photograph  
Daniel White
Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations
phone:+1 (702) 470-2766
direct:+1 (702) 470-2770

Sean Heskett wrote on 9/9/19 16:13:

Hello fellow borg members,
We will be building an off grid (solar) tower site at 10,000 feet 
MSL that receives over 500 inches of snow and has a typical settled 
snow depth of 10 feet. (I know, we are crazy, but people need 
internet lol ;)
Because of the deep snow it will be necessary to put the generator 
inside the telecom shelter that we are building, otherwise it would 
get buried.  It also needs to be propane because at that altitude 
and temp diesel fuel will gel up and refuse to start. At other sites 
we have typically used a Generac Ecogen 15kW propane generator.  
Everyone I talk to says "you can't put a generator indoors" but in 
this case I have to, and this isn't living space this is a telecom 
shelter on the top of a mountain.  The Ecogen seems un-good for this 
application because it doesn't seem to have one small exhaust port, 
it's the whole side of the unit.

So i'm looking for a propane generator that is:
1. 5kW or bigger
2.  has 2 wire start (it needs to be smart enough to handle the 
choke and throttle etc. to start when i close a relay)

3. can be installed inside the shelter
4. is super reliable because i don't want to visit this site in the 
winter

any ideas??
Thanks,
sean








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Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

[Seth Mattinen]

On 9/9/19 6:03 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
That’s horrible.  We always had the generators in a separate room.  One 
end of the shelter was walled off just for the generator. But good 
point, sometimes you get stranded on mountaintops.  I have had carbon 
monoxide poisoning twice and did not notice it coming on.  Obviously I 
was lucky both times.



RENO, Nev. (News 4 & Fox 11) — The Washoe County Medical Examiner's 
Office has identified the cause of death for both of bodies found in a 
building on Peavine Mountain on Thursday, Feb. 28.


On March 1, 62-year-old John Finkbohner was found dead along with 
Herbert Primosch, 74, of Tahoe City in a “maintenance type building” 
near the top of the mountain.


The second man has been identified as Herbert Primosch, 74, of Tahoe City.

A spokesman with the examiner’s office said the both men died of carbon 
monoxide poisoning. Their deaths were determined to be accidental.


Most of the buildings located on the mountain are used for 
communications to support several radio transmitters.


https://mynews4.com/news/local/two-bodies-found-on-peavine-mountain

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Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

[Chuck McCown]

That’s horrible.  We always had the generators in a separate room.  One end of 
the shelter was walled off just for the generator.  But good point, sometimes 
you get stranded on mountaintops.  I have had carbon monoxide poisoning twice 
and did not notice it coming on.  Obviously I was lucky both times.  

I guess a good CO detector would be a must.  

From: Robert 
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2019 6:51 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

Please don't put it in an area that any personnel are likely to take shelter 
in.   We lost two good radio techs out this way last year due to that.  Was 
supposed to be safe for them.  Killed them before they could drink 1/2 cup of 
coffee...


On 9/9/19 4:58 PM, Daniel White wrote:

  The Long Lines sites I've visited in Colorado at that altitude had diesel 
generators but they were also not off-grid.  I know the comm site at Almagre 
Mountain was a huge remediation issue with the diesel tanks there.

  Check out the Cummins Onan 5.5HGJAE-2144.  Since it is designed for RV type 
applications it has a dedicated exhaust port.


   Daniel White
  Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations 
  phone: +1 (702) 470-2766
  direct: +1 (702) 470-2770
 
   

  Sean Heskett wrote on 9/9/19 16:13:

Hello fellow borg members, 

We will be building an off grid (solar) tower site at 10,000 feet MSL that 
receives over 500 inches of snow and has a typical settled snow depth of 10 
feet. (I know, we are crazy, but people need internet lol ;)  

Because of the deep snow it will be necessary to put the generator inside 
the telecom shelter that we are building, otherwise it would get buried.  It 
also needs to be propane because at that altitude and temp diesel fuel will gel 
up and refuse to start. At other sites we have typically used a Generac Ecogen 
15kW propane generator.  Everyone I talk to says "you can't put a generator 
indoors" but in this case I have to, and this isn't living space this is a 
telecom shelter on the top of a mountain.  The Ecogen seems un-good for this 
application because it doesn't seem to have one small exhaust port, it's the 
whole side of the unit.  

So i'm looking for a propane generator that is:
1. 5kW or bigger
2.  has 2 wire start (it needs to be smart enough to handle the choke and 
throttle etc. to start when i close a relay)
3. can be installed inside the shelter
4. is super reliable because i don't want to visit this site in the winter

any ideas??

Thanks,
sean


 




   





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Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

[Robert]

Please don't put it in an area that any personnel are likely to take 
shelter in.   We lost two good radio techs out this way last year due to 
that.  Was supposed to be safe for them.  Killed them before they could 
drink 1/2 cup of coffee...


On 9/9/19 4:58 PM, Daniel White wrote:
The Long Lines sites I've visited in Colorado at that altitude had 
diesel generators but they were also not off-grid.  I know the comm 
site at Almagre Mountain was a huge remediation issue with the diesel 
tanks there.


Check out the Cummins Onan 5.5HGJAE-2144.  Since it is designed for RV 
type applications it has a dedicated exhaust port.


photograph  
Daniel White
Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations
phone: +1 (702) 470-2766
direct:+1 (702) 470-2770

Sean Heskett wrote on 9/9/19 16:13:

Hello fellow borg members,

We will be building an off grid (solar) tower site at 10,000 feet MSL 
that receives over 500 inches of snow and has a typical settled snow 
depth of 10 feet. (I know, we are crazy, but people need internet lol ;)


Because of the deep snow it will be necessary to put the generator 
inside the telecom shelter that we are building, otherwise it would 
get buried.  It also needs to be propane because at that altitude and 
temp diesel fuel will gel up and refuse to start. At other sites we 
have typically used a Generac Ecogen 15kW propane generator. Everyone 
I talk to says "you can't put a generator indoors" but in this case I 
have to, and this isn't living space this is a telecom shelter on the 
top of a mountain. The Ecogen seems un-good for this application 
because it doesn't seem to have one small exhaust port, it's the 
whole side of the unit.


So i'm looking for a propane generator that is:
1. 5kW or bigger
2.  has 2 wire start (it needs to be smart enough to handle the choke 
and throttle etc. to start when i close a relay)

3. can be installed inside the shelter
4. is super reliable because i don't want to visit this site in the 
winter


any ideas??

Thanks,
sean








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Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

[chuck]

Last time I looked in to them they are not suitable for super cold sites.  They 
make copious amounts of water which tends to freeze them up.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Monday, September 9, 2019 6:08 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

I seem to  remember there was discussion here about fuel cells at one point.  
Doing a Google search and clicking on a result at random, I see this:

http://www.redhawkenergy.net/adaptivesofc.html

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Daniel White
Sent: Monday, September 9, 2019 6:59 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

 

The Long Lines sites I've visited in Colorado at that altitude had diesel 
generators but they were also not off-grid.  I know the comm site at Almagre 
Mountain was a huge remediation issue with the diesel tanks there.

Check out the Cummins Onan 5.5HGJAE-2144.  Since it is designed for RV type 
applications it has a dedicated exhaust port.

 


 Daniel White
Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations
   
phone: +1 (702) 470-2766
direct: +1 (702) 470-2770
   
 
 

Sean Heskett wrote on 9/9/19 16:13:



  Hello fellow borg members,

   

  We will be building an off grid (solar) tower site at 10,000 feet MSL that 
receives over 500 inches of snow and has a typical settled snow depth of 10 
feet. (I know, we are crazy, but people need internet lol ;)  

   

  Because of the deep snow it will be necessary to put the generator inside the 
telecom shelter that we are building, otherwise it would get buried.  It also 
needs to be propane because at that altitude and temp diesel fuel will gel up 
and refuse to start. At other sites we have typically used a Generac Ecogen 
15kW propane generator.  Everyone I talk to says "you can't put a generator 
indoors" but in this case I have to, and this isn't living space this is a 
telecom shelter on the top of a mountain.  The Ecogen seems un-good for this 
application because it doesn't seem to have one small exhaust port, it's the 
whole side of the unit.  

   

  So i'm looking for a propane generator that is:

  1. 5kW or bigger

  2.  has 2 wire start (it needs to be smart enough to handle the choke and 
throttle etc. to start when i close a relay)

  3. can be installed inside the shelter

  4. is super reliable because i don't want to visit this site in the winter

   

  any ideas??

   

  Thanks,

  sean

   





 




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Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

[Ken Hohhof]

I seem to  remember there was discussion here about fuel cells at one point.  
Doing a Google search and clicking on a result at random, I see this:

http://www.redhawkenergy.net/adaptivesofc.html

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Daniel White
Sent: Monday, September 9, 2019 6:59 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

 

The Long Lines sites I've visited in Colorado at that altitude had diesel 
generators but they were also not off-grid.  I know the comm site at Almagre 
Mountain was a huge remediation issue with the diesel tanks there.

Check out the Cummins Onan 5.5HGJAE-2144.  Since it is designed for RV type 
applications it has a dedicated exhaust port.

 


  
<https://atheral.co/wp-content/uploads/Atheral-Logo-Vertical-Grad-150px-x-86px.png>
 


Daniel White
Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations


phone: +1 (702) 470-2766
direct: +1 (702) 470-2770



Sean Heskett wrote on 9/9/19 16:13:



Hello fellow borg members,

 

We will be building an off grid (solar) tower site at 10,000 feet MSL that 
receives over 500 inches of snow and has a typical settled snow depth of 10 
feet. (I know, we are crazy, but people need internet lol ;)  

 

Because of the deep snow it will be necessary to put the generator inside the 
telecom shelter that we are building, otherwise it would get buried.  It also 
needs to be propane because at that altitude and temp diesel fuel will gel up 
and refuse to start. At other sites we have typically used a Generac Ecogen 
15kW propane generator.  Everyone I talk to says "you can't put a generator 
indoors" but in this case I have to, and this isn't living space this is a 
telecom shelter on the top of a mountain.  The Ecogen seems un-good for this 
application because it doesn't seem to have one small exhaust port, it's the 
whole side of the unit.  

 

So i'm looking for a propane generator that is:

1. 5kW or bigger

2.  has 2 wire start (it needs to be smart enough to handle the choke and 
throttle etc. to start when i close a relay)

3. can be installed inside the shelter

4. is super reliable because i don't want to visit this site in the winter

 

any ideas??

 

Thanks,

sean

 





 

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Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I haven't had a chance to use one of these in production, but several
customers I've talked to at packetflux have reported using a RV generator
with good success.   You'll need to arrange for sufficient ventilation
through louvers, etc..   The exhaust can be through an extended tailpipe.

-forrest

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 4:14 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:

> Hello fellow borg members,
>
> We will be building an off grid (solar) tower site at 10,000 feet MSL that
> receives over 500 inches of snow and has a typical settled snow depth of 10
> feet. (I know, we are crazy, but people need internet lol ;)
>
> Because of the deep snow it will be necessary to put the generator inside
> the telecom shelter that we are building, otherwise it would get buried.
> It also needs to be propane because at that altitude and temp diesel fuel
> will gel up and refuse to start. At other sites we have typically used a
> Generac Ecogen 15kW propane generator.  Everyone I talk to says "you can't
> put a generator indoors" but in this case I have to, and this isn't living
> space this is a telecom shelter on the top of a mountain.  The Ecogen seems
> un-good for this application because it doesn't seem to have one small
> exhaust port, it's the whole side of the unit.
>
> So i'm looking for a propane generator that is:
> 1. 5kW or bigger
> 2.  has 2 wire start (it needs to be smart enough to handle the choke and
> throttle etc. to start when i close a relay)
> 3. can be installed inside the shelter
> 4. is super reliable because i don't want to visit this site in the winter
>
> any ideas??
>
> Thanks,
> sean
>
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Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

[Daniel White]

The Long Lines sites I've visited in Colorado at that altitude had 
diesel generators but they were also not off-grid.  I know the comm site 
at Almagre Mountain was a huge remediation issue with the diesel tanks 
there.


Check out the Cummins Onan 5.5HGJAE-2144.  Since it is designed for RV 
type applications it has a dedicated exhaust port.


photograph  
Daniel White
Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations
phone: +1 (702) 470-2766
direct:+1 (702) 470-2770

Sean Heskett wrote on 9/9/19 16:13:

Hello fellow borg members,

We will be building an off grid (solar) tower site at 10,000 feet MSL 
that receives over 500 inches of snow and has a typical settled snow 
depth of 10 feet. (I know, we are crazy, but people need internet lol ;)


Because of the deep snow it will be necessary to put the generator 
inside the telecom shelter that we are building, otherwise it would 
get buried.  It also needs to be propane because at that altitude and 
temp diesel fuel will gel up and refuse to start. At other sites we 
have typically used a Generac Ecogen 15kW propane generator.  Everyone 
I talk to says "you can't put a generator indoors" but in this case I 
have to, and this isn't living space this is a telecom shelter on the 
top of a mountain. The Ecogen seems un-good for this application 
because it doesn't seem to have one small exhaust port, it's the whole 
side of the unit.


So i'm looking for a propane generator that is:
1. 5kW or bigger
2.  has 2 wire start (it needs to be smart enough to handle the choke 
and throttle etc. to start when i close a relay)

3. can be installed inside the shelter
4. is super reliable because i don't want to visit this site in the winter

any ideas??

Thanks,
sean





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Re: [AFMUG] generator suggestions

[Lewis Bergman]

Most of the larger sites with very large gensets, including all of
Verizon's and AT"s LATA switching sites have generators indoors. It
sounds like you better put the exhaust and intake pretty high on the
building. I think most with transfer switches, exercise and such are 7kw to
10kw.

I would think that Ecogen would work here too and they likely have an
indoor adapter kit.
On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 5:14 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:

> Hello fellow borg members,
>
> We will be building an off grid (solar) tower site at 10,000 feet MSL that
> receives over 500 inches of snow and has a typical settled snow depth of 10
> feet. (I know, we are crazy, but people need internet lol ;)
>
> Because of the deep snow it will be necessary to put the generator inside
> the telecom shelter that we are building, otherwise it would get buried.
> It also needs to be propane because at that altitude and temp diesel fuel
> will gel up and refuse to start. At other sites we have typically used a
> Generac Ecogen 15kW propane generator.  Everyone I talk to says "you can't
> put a generator indoors" but in this case I have to, and this isn't living
> space this is a telecom shelter on the top of a mountain.  The Ecogen seems
> un-good for this application because it doesn't seem to have one small
> exhaust port, it's the whole side of the unit.
>
> So i'm looking for a propane generator that is:
> 1. 5kW or bigger
> 2.  has 2 wire start (it needs to be smart enough to handle the choke and
> throttle etc. to start when i close a relay)
> 3. can be installed inside the shelter
> 4. is super reliable because i don't want to visit this site in the winter
>
> any ideas??
>
> Thanks,
> sean
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator

[Lewis Bergman]

That was definitely the case

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 12:58 PM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Maybe the private power generator was better quality than the public
> government run service?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 11:15 AM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
>> The typical standard is a generator should be able to produce twice the
>> amperage of the load you expect. Maybe thats because genset guys like
>> selling bigger generators but all the docs I have seen from UPS
>> manufacturers state the same thing. They all produce cleaner power at the
>> mid range of what they are capable of.
>>
>> When we had a 100kva genset on a 25kva load you could always tell when it
>> went from power company 408 to genset because all three legs of power would
>> become perfect and in balance for the period it ran. Once it flipped back
>> to mains power they converted back to their normal out of whack state.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 9:25 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> It will run cooler too.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> > On Aug 12, 2019, at 8:53 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I might be a weirdo, but I figure a 50amp subpanel is 12kva, so I got
>>> a 16kva generator for the 50 amp sub-panel fed by a 50 amp breaker from the
>>> main panel.
>>> >
>>> > The reason for the generator being bigger than the sub-panel is that
>>> you can't put 12kva on the 12kva generator unless you perfectly balance
>>> both hot legs.  Since that won't happen, I bump the generator up a notch.
>>> It's a sub-panel so if someone ever trips the 50amp breaker we'll know
>>> right away that there's more load than the generator could handle rather
>>> than finding out when the power is out and nobody's there.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> On 8/12/2019 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>> >> I would get the one larger than you need with an automatic transfer
>>> switch.  I have had ok luck with geneac units.  You want it large enough to
>>> be able to start the hvac system,
>>> >>
>>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>>> >>
>>> >>> On Aug 11, 2019, at 9:51 PM, Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT) <
>>> r...@latrobeit.com.au> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --_000_98489c14e6d04e6dbe7ba554592e77b2latrobeitcomau_
>>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>> >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Hi Guys
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I'm after a small 5kva generator for the server room
>>> >>> Will be feeding a 3kva ups.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Do you think its required to get an inverter generator?
>>> >>> Being is only going to be used as a charger and the UPS will clean
>>> the powe=
>>> >>> r up.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Thanks
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Rhys
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --_000_98489c14e6d04e6dbe7ba554592e77b2latrobeitcomau_
>>> >>> Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
>>> >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>> >>>
>>> >>> >> xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micr=
>>> >>> osoft-com:office:office"
>>> xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
>>> >>> xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/offi
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > AF mailing list
>>> > AF@af.afmug.com
>>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lewis Bergman
>> 325-439-0533 Cell
>> --
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator

[Josh Luthman]

Maybe the private power generator was better quality than the public
government run service?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 11:15 AM Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> The typical standard is a generator should be able to produce twice the
> amperage of the load you expect. Maybe thats because genset guys like
> selling bigger generators but all the docs I have seen from UPS
> manufacturers state the same thing. They all produce cleaner power at the
> mid range of what they are capable of.
>
> When we had a 100kva genset on a 25kva load you could always tell when it
> went from power company 408 to genset because all three legs of power would
> become perfect and in balance for the period it ran. Once it flipped back
> to mains power they converted back to their normal out of whack state.
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 9:25 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> It will run cooler too.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Aug 12, 2019, at 8:53 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>> >
>> > I might be a weirdo, but I figure a 50amp subpanel is 12kva, so I got a
>> 16kva generator for the 50 amp sub-panel fed by a 50 amp breaker from the
>> main panel.
>> >
>> > The reason for the generator being bigger than the sub-panel is that
>> you can't put 12kva on the 12kva generator unless you perfectly balance
>> both hot legs.  Since that won't happen, I bump the generator up a notch.
>> It's a sub-panel so if someone ever trips the 50amp breaker we'll know
>> right away that there's more load than the generator could handle rather
>> than finding out when the power is out and nobody's there.
>> >
>> >
>> >> On 8/12/2019 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>> >> I would get the one larger than you need with an automatic transfer
>> switch.  I have had ok luck with geneac units.  You want it large enough to
>> be able to start the hvac system,
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >>> On Aug 11, 2019, at 9:51 PM, Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT) <
>> r...@latrobeit.com.au> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> --_000_98489c14e6d04e6dbe7ba554592e77b2latrobeitcomau_
>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi Guys
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm after a small 5kva generator for the server room
>> >>> Will be feeding a 3kva ups.
>> >>>
>> >>> Do you think its required to get an inverter generator?
>> >>> Being is only going to be used as a charger and the UPS will clean
>> the powe=
>> >>> r up.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks
>> >>>
>> >>> Rhys
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --_000_98489c14e6d04e6dbe7ba554592e77b2latrobeitcomau_
>> >>> Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> >>>
>> >>> > xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micr=
>> >>> osoft-com:office:office"
>> xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
>> >>> xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/offi
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > AF mailing list
>> > AF@af.afmug.com
>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Lewis Bergman
> 325-439-0533 Cell
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator

[Lewis Bergman]

The typical standard is a generator should be able to produce twice the
amperage of the load you expect. Maybe thats because genset guys like
selling bigger generators but all the docs I have seen from UPS
manufacturers state the same thing. They all produce cleaner power at the
mid range of what they are capable of.

When we had a 100kva genset on a 25kva load you could always tell when it
went from power company 408 to genset because all three legs of power would
become perfect and in balance for the period it ran. Once it flipped back
to mains power they converted back to their normal out of whack state.

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 9:25 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> It will run cooler too.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 12, 2019, at 8:53 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> >
> > I might be a weirdo, but I figure a 50amp subpanel is 12kva, so I got a
> 16kva generator for the 50 amp sub-panel fed by a 50 amp breaker from the
> main panel.
> >
> > The reason for the generator being bigger than the sub-panel is that you
> can't put 12kva on the 12kva generator unless you perfectly balance both
> hot legs.  Since that won't happen, I bump the generator up a notch.  It's
> a sub-panel so if someone ever trips the 50amp breaker we'll know right
> away that there's more load than the generator could handle rather than
> finding out when the power is out and nobody's there.
> >
> >
> >> On 8/12/2019 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
> >> I would get the one larger than you need with an automatic transfer
> switch.  I have had ok luck with geneac units.  You want it large enough to
> be able to start the hvac system,
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Aug 11, 2019, at 9:51 PM, Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT) <
> r...@latrobeit.com.au> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> --_000_98489c14e6d04e6dbe7ba554592e77b2latrobeitcomau_
> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> >>>
> >>> Hi Guys
> >>>
> >>> I'm after a small 5kva generator for the server room
> >>> Will be feeding a 3kva ups.
> >>>
> >>> Do you think its required to get an inverter generator?
> >>> Being is only going to be used as a charger and the UPS will clean the
> powe=
> >>> r up.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>>
> >>> Rhys
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --_000_98489c14e6d04e6dbe7ba554592e77b2latrobeitcomau_
> >>> Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
> >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> >>>
> >>>  xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micr=
> >>> osoft-com:office:office"
> xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
> >>> xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/offi
> >
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
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>


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Re: [AFMUG] Generator

[Chuck McCown]

It will run cooler too.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 12, 2019, at 8:53 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> I might be a weirdo, but I figure a 50amp subpanel is 12kva, so I got a 16kva 
> generator for the 50 amp sub-panel fed by a 50 amp breaker from the main 
> panel.
> 
> The reason for the generator being bigger than the sub-panel is that you 
> can't put 12kva on the 12kva generator unless you perfectly balance both hot 
> legs.  Since that won't happen, I bump the generator up a notch.  It's a 
> sub-panel so if someone ever trips the 50amp breaker we'll know right away 
> that there's more load than the generator could handle rather than finding 
> out when the power is out and nobody's there.
> 
> 
>> On 8/12/2019 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>> I would get the one larger than you need with an automatic transfer switch.  
>> I have had ok luck with geneac units.  You want it large enough to be able 
>> to start the hvac system,
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Aug 11, 2019, at 9:51 PM, Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT)  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> --_000_98489c14e6d04e6dbe7ba554592e77b2latrobeitcomau_
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>> 
>>> Hi Guys
>>> 
>>> I'm after a small 5kva generator for the server room
>>> Will be feeding a 3kva ups.
>>> 
>>> Do you think its required to get an inverter generator?
>>> Being is only going to be used as a charger and the UPS will clean the powe=
>>> r up.
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> 
>>> Rhys
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --_000_98489c14e6d04e6dbe7ba554592e77b2latrobeitcomau_
>>> Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>> 
>>> >> osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
>>> xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/offi
> 
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator

[Adam Moffett]

I might be a weirdo, but I figure a 50amp subpanel is 12kva, so I got a 
16kva generator for the 50 amp sub-panel fed by a 50 amp breaker from 
the main panel.


The reason for the generator being bigger than the sub-panel is that you 
can't put 12kva on the 12kva generator unless you perfectly balance both 
hot legs.  Since that won't happen, I bump the generator up a notch.  
It's a sub-panel so if someone ever trips the 50amp breaker we'll know 
right away that there's more load than the generator could handle rather 
than finding out when the power is out and nobody's there.



On 8/12/2019 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I would get the one larger than you need with an automatic transfer switch.  I 
have had ok luck with geneac units.  You want it large enough to be able to 
start the hvac system,

Sent from my iPhone


On Aug 11, 2019, at 9:51 PM, Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT)  
wrote:

--_000_98489c14e6d04e6dbe7ba554592e77b2latrobeitcomau_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Guys

I'm after a small 5kva generator for the server room
Will be feeding a 3kva ups.

Do you think its required to get an inverter generator?
Being is only going to be used as a charger and the UPS will clean the powe=
r up.

Thanks

Rhys



--_000_98489c14e6d04e6dbe7ba554592e77b2latrobeitcomau_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

http://schemas.microsoft.com/offi



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Re: [AFMUG] Generator

[Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT)]

Thanks for the responses.
So looks like just a basic avr generator will be fine as long as it’s sized 
correctly 

Thanks again

Rhys 



Sent from my iPhone

> On 12 Aug 2019, at 11:36 pm, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> I would get the one larger than you need with an automatic transfer switch.  
> I have had ok luck with geneac units.  You want it large enough to be able to 
> start the hvac system,
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 11, 2019, at 9:51 PM, Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT)  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> --_000_98489c14e6d04e6dbe7ba554592e77b2latrobeitcomau_
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> 
>> Hi Guys
>> 
>> I'm after a small 5kva generator for the server room
>> Will be feeding a 3kva ups.
>> 
>> Do you think its required to get an inverter generator?
>> Being is only going to be used as a charger and the UPS will clean the powe=
>> r up.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Rhys
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --_000_98489c14e6d04e6dbe7ba554592e77b2latrobeitcomau_
>> Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> 
>> > osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
>> xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/offi

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Re: [AFMUG] Generator

[Josh Luthman]

This is what I do, 5-6kva generator per 2200va UPS.  There are two
generators and two UPS in my case.

I'm not worried about cooling since there's not enough output (the size is
mostly for large battery capacity).  It's in the bottom middle of the
building, the heat just rises right out.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 8:16 AM can...@believewireless.net <
p...@believewireless.net> wrote:

> You don't need an inverter generator but you may need to adjust the
> sensitivity in the
> UPS. Our Tripplites work fine but APC needs to be adjusted.
>
> On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 11:51 PM Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT) <
> r...@latrobeit.com.au> wrote:
>
>> Hi Guys
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m after a small 5kva generator for the server room
>>
>> Will be feeding a 3kva ups.
>>
>>
>>
>> Do you think its required to get an inverter generator?
>>
>> Being is only going to be used as a charger and the UPS will clean the
>> power up.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Rhys
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator

[Chuck McCown]

I would get the one larger than you need with an automatic transfer switch.  I 
have had ok luck with geneac units.  You want it large enough to be able to 
start the hvac system,

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 11, 2019, at 9:51 PM, Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT)  
> wrote:
> 
> --_000_98489c14e6d04e6dbe7ba554592e77b2latrobeitcomau_
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> Hi Guys
> 
> I'm after a small 5kva generator for the server room
> Will be feeding a 3kva ups.
> 
> Do you think its required to get an inverter generator?
> Being is only going to be used as a charger and the UPS will clean the powe=
> r up.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Rhys
> 
> 
> 
> --_000_98489c14e6d04e6dbe7ba554592e77b2latrobeitcomau_
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
>  osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
> xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/offi

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Re: [AFMUG] Generator

[can...@believewireless.net]

You don't need an inverter generator but you may need to adjust the
sensitivity in the
UPS. Our Tripplites work fine but APC needs to be adjusted.

On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 11:51 PM Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT) <
r...@latrobeit.com.au> wrote:

> Hi Guys
>
>
>
> I’m after a small 5kva generator for the server room
>
> Will be feeding a 3kva ups.
>
>
>
> Do you think its required to get an inverter generator?
>
> Being is only going to be used as a charger and the UPS will clean the
> power up.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Rhys
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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