subject:"\[AFMUG\] Cambium 450m"

Oh.. so $400 CAD is about $300 USD right now. And if you're talking
3.6GHz, then, yeah, that's about right.

Don't worry, the US$ will collapse after the election.

On 11/2/2016 9:42 PM, George Skorup wrote:
$400 for a 10Mb SM? That sounds more like MSRP. Nobody pays that.
Maybe $400 for an uncapped SM after USD>CAD. Although I suppose the
3.6GHz radios are a little bit more, which I still don't understand to
this day. I guess that big hunk of aluminum heatsink is where the
extra $40 goes.

On 11/2/2016 8:59 PM, Ryan Ray wrote:
I don't even care so much about the AP cost. The SM is still a
killer. Especially in Canada when it's $400 capped to 10Mb? Come on.

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 12:43 PM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com
<mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

But with that one PMP450M AP, you'll use only one channel. Define
expensive. Expensive money-wise? Sure. Expensive spectrum-wise?
Quite the opposite.

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 11/2/2016 8:53 AM, Stefan Englhardt wrote:

A sector Rocket AC Prism with AC Sector Antenna is $350.
Nanobeam AC 19 is $70.

Loading Sector with 20 Users you are at $1750 for AP and CPEs.
(With Litebeam CPEs you’re even cheaper).

With used PMP450 you are at $4950 with limited CPEs.

UBNT AC does TDMA (Mimosa does not) both do no GPS Sync (Dont
know who does when but this is how it is now).

With UBNT AC you can dare to do 20 CPEs / AP and will see very
good results. I would not scale it to > 30 now but looking at
the price of APs this is not neccesary. As it is .ac it might
get an 802.11ax upgrade in the future. UBNT-802.11n products
have an upgradepath which might not be perfect but it is not
dead end like PMP320/FSK.

So yes PMP450 is expensive.

*Von:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *Im Auftrag von *Kurt
Fankhauser
*Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 2. November 2016 15:38
*An:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Betreff:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

I can buy a used PMP450 AP for $1200.00. Add KP Omni for $250 so
$1,400.00. The mimosa A5-18 Omni lists for $999.00 so the PMP450
is not that much more. I've seen used 450 SM's go for $175 for
20mbps ones. I think the Jury is still out on how well the
Mimosa is going to scale. It probably will take years before we
know for sure. I definitely would deploy Mimosa over UBNT AC
right now. Sounds like Mimosa will have sync and anything
without sync these days is basically un-scalable.

Now on the PMP450 being expensive, yes if you add up the initial
expenses upfront costs are more. But you really have an asset
with the 450 because it holds re-sale value very well compared
to 802.11 radios. I just sold some old FSK SM's over the weekend
for 35% of what i paid for them 10 years ago. Assuming the 450
will still have 50-60% of its value 5 years form now, and the
ability to re-coup that money out of the equipment, does it
really costs more? I think factoring the re-sale value down the
road that it costs less

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net
<mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

For sure frame utilization is important. My thoughts are
that if you're loading up that many clients on an AP, maybe
you ought to be offering faster plans or removing other
restrictions instead of loading up more on an AP.

Then again, I don't deploy 450, so I don't have high AP
costs to be worried about.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
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*From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com
<m

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

$400 for a 10Mb SM? That sounds more like MSRP. Nobody pays that. Maybe
$400 for an uncapped SM after USD>CAD. Although I suppose the 3.6GHz
radios are a little bit more, which I still don't understand to this
day. I guess that big hunk of aluminum heatsink is where the extra $40 goes.

On 11/2/2016 8:59 PM, Ryan Ray wrote:
I don't even care so much about the AP cost. The SM is still a killer.
Especially in Canada when it's $400 capped to 10Mb? Come on.

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 12:43 PM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com
<mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

But with that one PMP450M AP, you'll use only one channel. Define
expensive. Expensive money-wise? Sure. Expensive spectrum-wise?
Quite the opposite.

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 11/2/2016 8:53 AM, Stefan Englhardt wrote:

A sector Rocket AC Prism with AC Sector Antenna is $350.
Nanobeam AC 19 is $70.

Loading Sector with 20 Users you are at $1750 for AP and CPEs.
(With Litebeam CPEs you’re even cheaper).

With used PMP450 you are at $4950 with limited CPEs.

UBNT AC does TDMA (Mimosa does not) both do no GPS Sync (Dont
know who does when but this is how it is now).

With UBNT AC you can dare to do 20 CPEs / AP and will see very
good results. I would not scale it to > 30 now but looking at the
price of APs this is not neccesary. As it is .ac it might get an
802.11ax upgrade in the future. UBNT-802.11n products have an
upgradepath which might not be perfect but it is not dead end
like PMP320/FSK.

So yes PMP450 is expensive.

*Von:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *Im Auftrag von *Kurt
Fankhauser
*Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 2. November 2016 15:38
*An:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Betreff:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

I can buy a used PMP450 AP for $1200.00. Add KP Omni for $250 so
$1,400.00. The mimosa A5-18 Omni lists for $999.00 so the PMP450
is not that much more. I've seen used 450 SM's go for $175 for
20mbps ones. I think the Jury is still out on how well the Mimosa
is going to scale. It probably will take years before we know for
sure. I definitely would deploy Mimosa over UBNT AC right now.
Sounds like Mimosa will have sync and anything without sync these
days is basically un-scalable.

Now on the PMP450 being expensive, yes if you add up the initial
expenses upfront costs are more. But you really have an asset
with the 450 because it holds re-sale value very well compared to
802.11 radios. I just sold some old FSK SM's over the weekend for
35% of what i paid for them 10 years ago. Assuming the 450 will
still have 50-60% of its value 5 years form now, and the ability
to re-coup that money out of the equipment, does it really costs
more? I think factoring the re-sale value down the road that it
costs less

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net
<mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

For sure frame utilization is important. My thoughts are that
if you're loading up that many clients on an AP, maybe you
ought to be offering faster plans or removing other
restrictions instead of loading up more on an AP.

Then again, I don't deploy 450, so I don't have high AP costs
to be worried about.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png

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<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com
<mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:13:06 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

2016-11-02 Thread Jon Langeler

Yeah I can deal with an expensive AP or expensive CPE, but not both. And 
sometimes neither.

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Nov 2, 2016, at 9:59 PM, Ryan Ray <ryan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I don't even care so much about the AP cost. The SM is still a killer. 
> Especially in Canada when it's $400 capped to 10Mb? Come on.
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 12:43 PM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> But with that one PMP450M AP, you'll use only one channel. Define expensive. 
>> Expensive money-wise? Sure. Expensive spectrum-wise? Quite the opposite.
>> 
>> 
>> bp
>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>> 
>>> On 11/2/2016 8:53 AM, Stefan Englhardt wrote:
>>> A sector Rocket AC Prism with AC Sector Antenna is $350.  Nanobeam AC 19 is 
>>> $70.
>>> 
>>> Loading Sector with 20 Users you are at $1750 for AP and CPEs. (With 
>>> Litebeam CPEs you’re even cheaper).
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> With used PMP450 you are at $4950 with limited CPEs.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> UBNT AC does TDMA (Mimosa does not) both do no GPS Sync (Dont know who does 
>>> when but this is how it is now).
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> With UBNT AC you can dare to do 20 CPEs / AP and will see very good 
>>> results. I would not scale it to > 30 now but looking at the price of APs 
>>> this is not neccesary. As it is .ac it might get an 802.11ax upgrade in the 
>>> future. UBNT-802.11n products have an upgradepath which might not be 
>>> perfect but it is not dead end like PMP320/FSK.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> So yes PMP450 is expensive.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Kurt Fankhauser
>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 2. November 2016 15:38
>>> An: af@afmug.com
>>> Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> I can buy a used PMP450 AP for $1200.00. Add KP Omni for $250 so $1,400.00. 
>>> The mimosa A5-18 Omni lists for $999.00 so the PMP450 is not that much 
>>> more. I've seen used 450 SM's go for $175 for 20mbps ones. I think the Jury 
>>> is still out on how well the Mimosa is going to scale. It probably will 
>>> take years before we know for sure. I definitely would deploy Mimosa over 
>>> UBNT AC right now. Sounds like Mimosa will have sync and anything without 
>>> sync these days is basically un-scalable.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Now on the PMP450 being expensive, yes if you add up the initial expenses 
>>> upfront costs are more. But you really have an asset with the 450 because 
>>> it holds re-sale value very well compared to 802.11 radios. I just sold 
>>> some old FSK SM's over the weekend for 35% of what i paid for them 10 years 
>>> ago. Assuming the 450 will still have 50-60% of its value 5 years form now, 
>>> and the ability to re-coup that money out of the equipment, does it really 
>>> costs more? I think factoring the re-sale value down the road that it costs 
>>> less
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> For sure frame utilization is important. My thoughts are that if you're 
>>> loading up that many clients on an AP, maybe you ought to be offering 
>>> faster plans or removing other restrictions instead of loading up more on 
>>> an AP.
>>> 
>>> Then again, I don't deploy 450, so I don't have high AP costs to be worried 
>>> about.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> 
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>>> 
>>> The Brothers WISP
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: "Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:13:06 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>>> 
>>> As long as your downlink and uplink frame utilization is not maxing out on 
>>> the 450 you can definitely load 100 subs on an AP. With the 30mhz channel 
>>> width and soon to be 40mhz channel width option with the 450 that will just 
>>> help get more subs on per AP. I personally have had 50 subs on an old FSK 
>>> 2.4AP as recent as 1 year ago. that AP was capping out at 10mbps on the 
>>&g

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

2016-11-02 Thread Ryan Ray

I don't even care so much about the AP cost. The SM is still a killer.
Especially in Canada when it's $400 capped to 10Mb? Come on.


On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 12:43 PM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:

> But with that one PMP450M AP, you'll use only one channel. Define
> expensive. Expensive money-wise? Sure. Expensive spectrum-wise? Quite the
> opposite.
>
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
>
> On 11/2/2016 8:53 AM, Stefan Englhardt wrote:
>
> A sector Rocket AC Prism with AC Sector Antenna is $350.  Nanobeam AC 19
> is $70.
>
> Loading Sector with 20 Users you are at $1750 for AP and CPEs. (With
> Litebeam CPEs you’re even cheaper).
>
>
>
> With used PMP450 you are at $4950 with limited CPEs.
>
>
>
> UBNT AC does TDMA (Mimosa does not) both do no GPS Sync (Dont know who
> does when but this is how it is now).
>
>
>
> With UBNT AC you can dare to do 20 CPEs / AP and will see very good
> results. I would not scale it to > 30 now but looking at the price of APs
> this is not neccesary. As it is .ac it might get an 802.11ax upgrade in the
> future. UBNT-802.11n products have an upgradepath which might not be
> perfect but it is not dead end like PMP320/FSK.
>
>
>
> So yes PMP450 is expensive.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Von:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *Im
> Auftrag von *Kurt Fankhauser
> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 2. November 2016 15:38
> *An:* af@afmug.com
> *Betreff:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>
>
>
> I can buy a used PMP450 AP for $1200.00. Add KP Omni for $250 so
> $1,400.00. The mimosa A5-18 Omni lists for $999.00 so the PMP450 is not
> that much more. I've seen used 450 SM's go for $175 for 20mbps ones. I
> think the Jury is still out on how well the Mimosa is going to scale. It
> probably will take years before we know for sure. I definitely would deploy
> Mimosa over UBNT AC right now. Sounds like Mimosa will have sync and
> anything without sync these days is basically un-scalable.
>
>
>
> Now on the PMP450 being expensive, yes if you add up the initial expenses
> upfront costs are more. But you really have an asset with the 450 because
> it holds re-sale value very well compared to 802.11 radios. I just sold
> some old FSK SM's over the weekend for 35% of what i paid for them 10 years
> ago. Assuming the 450 will still have 50-60% of its value 5 years form now,
> and the ability to re-coup that money out of the equipment, does it really
> costs more? I think factoring the re-sale value down the road that it costs
> less
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
> For sure frame utilization is important. My thoughts are that if you're
> loading up that many clients on an AP, maybe you ought to be offering
> faster plans or removing other restrictions instead of loading up more on
> an AP.
>
> Then again, I don't deploy 450, so I don't have high AP costs to be
> worried about.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> [image: http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[image:
> http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[image:
> http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[image:
> http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png] <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> [image: http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[image:
> http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[image:
> http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> [image: http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[image:
> http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]
>
>
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> --
>
> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:13:06 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>
> As long as your downlink and uplink frame utilization is not maxing out on
> the 450 you can definitely load 100 subs on an AP. With the 30mhz channel
> width and soon to be 40mhz channel width option with the 450 that will just
> help get more subs on per AP. I personally have had 50 subs

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

On this list with the Friday posting.

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 8:17 PM, SmarterBroadband <li...@smarterbroadband.com
> wrote:

> +1
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino Villarini
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 02, 2016 8:30 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>
>
>
> Where are you selling those sms?
>
>
>
> *From: *Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> on behalf of Kurt Fankhauser <
> lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
> *Reply-To: *"af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
> *Date: *Wednesday, November 2, 2016 at 10:38 AM
> *To: *"af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>
>
>
> I can buy a used PMP450 AP for $1200.00. Add KP Omni for $250 so
> $1,400.00. The mimosa A5-18 Omni lists for $999.00 so the PMP450 is not
> that much more. I've seen used 450 SM's go for $175 for 20mbps ones. I
> think the Jury is still out on how well the Mimosa is going to scale. It
> probably will take years before we know for sure. I definitely would deploy
> Mimosa over UBNT AC right now. Sounds like Mimosa will have sync and
> anything without sync these days is basically un-scalable.
>
>
>
> Now on the PMP450 being expensive, yes if you add up the initial expenses
> upfront costs are more. But you really have an asset with the 450 because
> it holds re-sale value very well compared to 802.11 radios. I just sold
> some old FSK SM's over the weekend for 35% of what i paid for them 10 years
> ago. Assuming the 450 will still have 50-60% of its value 5 years form now,
> and the ability to re-coup that money out of the equipment, does it really
> costs more? I think factoring the re-sale value down the road that it costs
> less
>
>
>
>
>
> *Gino Villarini*
>
> President
>
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
> On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
> For sure frame utilization is important. My thoughts are that if you're
> loading up that many clients on an AP, maybe you ought to be offering
> faster plans or removing other restrictions instead of loading up more on
> an AP.
>
> Then again, I don't deploy 450, so I don't have high AP costs to be
> worried about.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
>
> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:13:06 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>
> As long as your downlink and uplink frame utilization is not maxing out on
> the 450 you can definitely load 100 subs on an AP. With the 30mhz channel
> width and soon to be 40mhz channel width option with the 450 that will just
> help get more subs on per AP. I personally have had 50 subs on an old FSK
> 2.4AP as recent as 1 year ago. that AP was capping out at 10mbps on the
> downlink side. I have no doubt that with a 40mhz channel width 450 AP which
> would net about 175-200mbps downlink on average depending on how many subs
> you have running 6x-8x connections and how busy they are that you could
> easily fit 100+subs on that AP. With Medusa and the ability to push
> 300-400mbps per AP I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing some people
> get close to 200 subs on a single AP. Its all about % of frame unitization.
>
>
>
> Now my next question, is Medusa considered Beam Forming? Wasn't the FCC
> originally going to allow higher EIRP on "Smart Antennas." Isn't the Medusa
> about the most smartest AP/Antenna you can get? Just think if the FCC
> allowed a little more power on the Medusa how much more clients you could
> get because the range would be better.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
> I wouldn't load 100 subs onto any platform out there. There's just not
> enough capacity on any of them.
>
> Same frequency. Technology is how they do it. Tons of stuff out there on
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

2016-11-02 Thread SmarterBroadband

+1

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2016 8:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Where are you selling those sms? 

From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> on behalf of Kurt Fankhauser 
<lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 at 10:38 AM
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

I can buy a used PMP450 AP for $1200.00. Add KP Omni for $250 so $1,400.00. The 
mimosa A5-18 Omni lists for $999.00 so the PMP450 is not that much more. I've 
seen used 450 SM's go for $175 for 20mbps ones. I think the Jury is still out 
on how well the Mimosa is going to scale. It probably will take years before we 
know for sure. I definitely would deploy Mimosa over UBNT AC right now. Sounds 
like Mimosa will have sync and anything without sync these days is basically 
un-scalable. 

Now on the PMP450 being expensive, yes if you add up the initial expenses 
upfront costs are more. But you really have an asset with the 450 because it 
holds re-sale value very well compared to 802.11 radios. I just sold some old 
FSK SM's over the weekend for 35% of what i paid for them 10 years ago. 
Assuming the 450 will still have 50-60% of its value 5 years form now, and the 
ability to re-coup that money out of the equipment, does it really costs more? 
I think factoring the re-sale value down the road that it costs less

Gino Villarini

President

Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

For sure frame utilization is important. My thoughts are that if you're loading 
up that many clients on an AP, maybe you ought to be offering faster plans or 
removing other restrictions instead of loading up more on an AP.

Then again, I don't deploy 450, so I don't have high AP costs to be worried 
about.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 

  _  

From: "Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:13:06 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

As long as your downlink and uplink frame utilization is not maxing out on the 
450 you can definitely load 100 subs on an AP. With the 30mhz channel width and 
soon to be 40mhz channel width option with the 450 that will just help get more 
subs on per AP. I personally have had 50 subs on an old FSK 2.4AP as recent as 
1 year ago. that AP was capping out at 10mbps on the downlink side. I have no 
doubt that with a 40mhz channel width 450 AP which would net about 175-200mbps 
downlink on average depending on how many subs you have running 6x-8x 
connections and how busy they are that you could easily fit 100+subs on that 
AP. With Medusa and the ability to push 300-400mbps per AP I wouldn't be 
surprised if we start seeing some people get close to 200 subs on a single AP. 
Its all about % of frame unitization.

Now my next question, is Medusa considered Beam Forming? Wasn't the FCC 
originally going to allow higher EIRP on "Smart Antennas." Isn't the Medusa 
about the most smartest AP/Antenna you can get? Just think if the FCC allowed a 
little more power on the Medusa how much more clients you could get because the 
range would be better.

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

I wouldn't load 100 subs onto any platform out there. There's just not enough 
capacity on any of them.

Same frequency. Technology is how they do it. Tons of stuff out there on how 
beamforming and mu-MIMO works.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrothe

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Or use horns 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Stefan Englhardt" <s...@genias.net> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 3:16:04 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m 

Yes. If you are out of spectrum 450 shines. A UBNT operator has to build 
another tower to hang another sector. 

 Ursprüngliche Nachricht  
Von: Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> 
Datum: 02.11.2016 20:43 (GMT+01:00) 
An: af@afmug.com 
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

2016-11-02 Thread Stefan Englhardt

Yes. If you are out of spectrum 450 shines. A UBNT operator has to build 
another tower to hang another sector.

 Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
Von: Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> 
Datum: 02.11.2016  20:43  (GMT+01:00) 
An: af@afmug.com 
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

2016-11-02 Thread Bill Prince

But with that one PMP450M AP, you'll use only one channel. Define
expensive. Expensive money-wise? Sure. Expensive spectrum-wise? Quite
the opposite.

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 11/2/2016 8:53 AM, Stefan Englhardt wrote:

A sector Rocket AC Prism with AC Sector Antenna is $350. Nanobeam AC
19 is $70.

Loading Sector with 20 Users you are at $1750 for AP and CPEs. (With
Litebeam CPEs you’re even cheaper).

With used PMP450 you are at $4950 with limited CPEs.

UBNT AC does TDMA (Mimosa does not) both do no GPS Sync (Dont know who
does when but this is how it is now).

With UBNT AC you can dare to do 20 CPEs / AP and will see very good
results. I would not scale it to > 30 now but looking at the price of
APs this is not neccesary. As it is .ac it might get an 802.11ax
upgrade in the future. UBNT-802.11n products have an upgradepath which
might not be perfect but it is not dead end like PMP320/FSK.

So yes PMP450 is expensive.

*Von:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *Im Auftrag von *Kurt Fankhauser
*Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 2. November 2016 15:38
*An:* af@afmug.com
*Betreff:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

I can buy a used PMP450 AP for $1200.00. Add KP Omni for $250 so
$1,400.00. The mimosa A5-18 Omni lists for $999.00 so the PMP450 is
not that much more. I've seen used 450 SM's go for $175 for 20mbps
ones. I think the Jury is still out on how well the Mimosa is going to
scale. It probably will take years before we know for sure. I
definitely would deploy Mimosa over UBNT AC right now. Sounds like
Mimosa will have sync and anything without sync these days is
basically un-scalable.

Now on the PMP450 being expensive, yes if you add up the initial
expenses upfront costs are more. But you really have an asset with the
450 because it holds re-sale value very well compared to 802.11
radios. I just sold some old FSK SM's over the weekend for 35% of what
i paid for them 10 years ago. Assuming the 450 will still have 50-60%
of its value 5 years form now, and the ability to re-coup that money
out of the equipment, does it really costs more? I think factoring the
re-sale value down the road that it costs less

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net
<mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

For sure frame utilization is important. My thoughts are that if
you're loading up that many clients on an AP, maybe you ought to
be offering faster plans or removing other restrictions instead of
loading up more on an AP.

Then again, I don't deploy 450, so I don't have high AP costs to
be worried about.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png

<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png

<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

As long as your downlink and uplink frame utilization is not
maxing out on the 450 you can definitely load 100 subs on an AP.
With the 30mhz channel width and soon to be 40mhz channel width
option with the 450 that will just help get more subs on per AP. I
personally have had 50 subs on an old FSK 2.4AP as recent as 1
year ago. that AP was capping out at 10mbps on the downlink side.
I have no doubt that with a 40mhz channel width 450 AP which would
net about 175-200mbps downlink on average depending on how many
subs you have running 6x-8x connections and how busy they are that
you could easily fit 100+subs on that AP. With Medusa and the
ability to push 300-400mbps per AP I wouldn't be surprised if we
start seeing some people get close to 200 subs on a single AP. Its
all about % of frame unitization.

Now my next question, i

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

2016-11-02 Thread Daniel Gerlach

UBNT AC with ETI 12 x Multibeam this is the Magic Key.
http://www.etiworld.com/uploads/3/4/7/8/34786610/5.6_ghz_antenna_12_beam_duopol.pdf


2016-11-02 18:25 GMT+01:00 George Skorup <geo...@cbcast.com>:

> Yep, 2.4 is dead to me.
>
> On 11/2/2016 12:23 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> That would be nice.  While some see 3.65 GHz as the replacement for 900
> MHz, we have been using it to replace 2.4 GHz.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *Kurt Fankhauser
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 2, 2016 12:18 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>
>
>
> Ken,
>
>
>
> I may be mistaken but at Wispalooza I thought I heard cambium say that
> 3.65ghz will be the next frequency they do 450m in, *if* they were to do
> another frequency at all. 2.4Ghz would be the last, not even sure if it
> would even be possible with 900mhz.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
> Yeah, you look at that spare AP capacity and start giving away bandwidth,
> next thing you know it you are spending big bucks to upgrade your 10 mile
> licensed backhauls to carry multi gigabit.
>
>
>
> On a side note, I wish there was a 450m in 3.65 GHz, where we are limited
> both in channel size and total spectrum.  No 30 or 40 MHz channels, we use
> all 10 MHz channels.  Probably not going to see any development like that
> at least until CBRS gets settled.  And I’m very, very reluctant to get on
> the LTE bandwagon, having gone through the hype and disappointment cycle
> with WiMAX, and finding it to be basically a best effort service with
> limited capacity.  Yeah, we can connect and pass data at -85 dBm, but
> customer satisfaction is way lower than our 450 customers, we don’t want to
> connect gamers or VoIP customers, and we can’t sell our higher speed
> packages.  At least we are getting CPEs now that are a little less stupid
> than the Gemteks, but I still dread logging into the basestation, I feel
> like it should be on a VT100 green screen monitor.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Kurt Fankhauser
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:58 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>
>
>
> Make them pay for it though, don't leave money at the table unnecessarily.
> Time Warner could be selling me a 10gig fiber connection over the same
> fiber stand that they are selling me a 1gig. Why are they not giving me
> 10gig? Because I know the fiber can handle it. Its because they can and
> they know that nobody else in the area is offering a 10gig connection right
> now. Simple business. I learned that over the last several years that if
> you under-charge for something, every month that goes by that's money that
> you've lost that you'll never get back.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:47 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
> Because you can?
>
> FWIW: I don't mean 50 instead of 20, I mean 20 instead of 5.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
>
> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:42:25 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>
> Don't offer significantly faster speeds in your area unless your forced to
> by a competitor. If your competitor is offer 3mbps packages then you can
> offer 10mbps packages and be safe. But no sense in offering 50mbps packages
> if their only other option is 1.5mbps. What would the point of that be?
> Your basically giving away bandwidth for free that you don't have to be.
> You could give the customer the option of the 50mbps package but at a much
> higher cost since you don't have any competition offering it.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
> End user experience. If you're putting 50 customers on and you're peaking
> relatively low on the frame

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Yep, 2.4 is dead to me.

On 11/2/2016 12:23 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

That would be nice. While some see 3.65 GHz as the replacement for
900 MHz, we have been using it to replace 2.4 GHz.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Kurt Fankhauser
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 2, 2016 12:18 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Ken,

I may be mistaken but at Wispalooza I thought I heard cambium say that
3.65ghz will be the next frequency they do 450m in, *if* they were to
do another frequency at all. 2.4Ghz would be the last, not even sure
if it would even be possible with 900mhz.

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

Yeah, you look at that spare AP capacity and start giving away
bandwidth, next thing you know it you are spending big bucks to
upgrade your 10 mile licensed backhauls to carry multi gigabit.

On a side note, I wish there was a 450m in 3.65 GHz, where we are
limited both in channel size and total spectrum. No 30 or 40 MHz
channels, we use all 10 MHz channels. Probably not going to see
any development like that at least until CBRS gets settled. And
I’m very, very reluctant to get on the LTE bandwagon, having gone
through the hype and disappointment cycle with WiMAX, and finding
it to be basically a best effort service with limited capacity.
Yeah, we can connect and pass data at -85 dBm, but customer

satisfaction is way lower than our 450 customers, we don’t want to
connect gamers or VoIP customers, and we can’t sell our higher
speed packages. At least we are getting CPEs now that are a
little less stupid than the Gemteks, but I still dread logging
into the basestation, I feel like it should be on a VT100 green
screen monitor.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Kurt Fankhauser
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:58 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Make them pay for it though, don't leave money at the table
unnecessarily. Time Warner could be selling me a 10gig fiber
connection over the same fiber stand that they are selling me a
1gig. Why are they not giving me 10gig? Because I know the fiber
can handle it. Its because they can and they know that nobody else
in the area is offering a 10gig connection right now. Simple
business. I learned that over the last several years that if you
under-charge for something, every month that goes by that's money
that you've lost that you'll never get back.

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:47 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net
<mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

Because you can?

FWIW: I don't mean 50 instead of 20, I mean 20 instead of 5.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

Don't offer significantly faster speeds in your area unless
your forced to by a competitor. If your competitor is offer
3mbps packages then you can offer 10mbps packages and be safe.
But no sense in offering 50mbps packages if their only other
option is 1.5mbps. What would the point of that be? Your
basically giving away bandwidth for free that you don't have
to be. You could give the customer the option of the 50mbps
package but at a much higher cost since you don't have any
competition offering it.

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Mike Hammett
<af...@ics-il.net <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

End user experience. If you're putting 50 customers on and
you're peaking relatively low on the frame utilization,
you could increase what you're offering.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Com

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

2016-11-02 Thread Ken Hohhof

That would be nice.  While some see 3.65 GHz as the replacement for 900 MHz, we 
have been using it to replace 2.4 GHz.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 12:18 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Ken,

I may be mistaken but at Wispalooza I thought I heard cambium say that 3.65ghz 
will be the next frequency they do 450m in, *if* they were to do another 
frequency at all. 2.4Ghz would be the last, not even sure if it would even be 
possible with 900mhz.

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com 
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

Yeah, you look at that spare AP capacity and start giving away bandwidth, next 
thing you know it you are spending big bucks to upgrade your 10 mile licensed 
backhauls to carry multi gigabit.

On a side note, I wish there was a 450m in 3.65 GHz, where we are limited both 
in channel size and total spectrum.  No 30 or 40 MHz channels, we use all 10 
MHz channels.  Probably not going to see any development like that at least 
until CBRS gets settled.  And I’m very, very reluctant to get on the LTE 
bandwagon, having gone through the hype and disappointment cycle with WiMAX, 
and finding it to be basically a best effort service with limited capacity.  
Yeah, we can connect and pass data at -85 dBm, but customer satisfaction is way 
lower than our 450 customers, we don’t want to connect gamers or VoIP 
customers, and we can’t sell our higher speed packages.  At least we are 
getting CPEs now that are a little less stupid than the Gemteks, but I still 
dread logging into the basestation, I feel like it should be on a VT100 green 
screen monitor.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> ] On Behalf 
Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Make them pay for it though, don't leave money at the table unnecessarily. Time 
Warner could be selling me a 10gig fiber connection over the same fiber stand 
that they are selling me a 1gig. Why are they not giving me 10gig? Because I 
know the fiber can handle it. Its because they can and they know that nobody 
else in the area is offering a 10gig connection right now. Simple business. I 
learned that over the last several years that if you under-charge for 
something, every month that goes by that's money that you've lost that you'll 
never get back.

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:47 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net 
<mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote:

Because you can?

FWIW: I don't mean 50 instead of 20, I mean 20 instead of 5.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 

  _  

From: "Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com 
<mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com> >
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:42:25 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Don't offer significantly faster speeds in your area unless your forced to by a 
competitor. If your competitor is offer 3mbps packages then you can offer 
10mbps packages and be safe. But no sense in offering 50mbps packages if their 
only other option is 1.5mbps. What would the point of that be? Your basically 
giving away bandwidth for free that you don't have to be. You could give the 
customer the option of the 50mbps package but at a much higher cost since you 
don't have any competition offering it.

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net 
<mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote:

End user experience. If you're putting 50 customers on and you're peaking 
relatively low on the frame utilization, you could increase what you're 
offering.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
The Broth

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

3GHz 450m is supposed to happen next year. Pretty sure Matt said they're 
going to certify it under Part 90 as well so we can actually use it.


On 11/2/2016 11:07 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
On a side note, I wish there was a 450m in 3.65 GHz, where we are 
limited both in channel size and total spectrum.  No 30 or 40 MHz 
channels, we use all 10 MHz channels.  Probably not going to see any 
development like that at least until CBRS gets settled. And I’m very, 
very reluctant to get on the LTE bandwagon, having gone through the 
hype and disappointment cycle with WiMAX, and finding it to be 
basically a best effort service with limited capacity.  Yeah, we can 
connect and pass data at -85 dBm, but customer satisfaction is way 
lower than our 450 customers, we don’t want to connect gamers or VoIP 
customers, and we can’t sell our higher speed packages.  At least we 
are getting CPEs now that are a little less stupid than the Gemteks, 
but I still dread logging into the basestation, I feel like it should 
be on a VT100 green screen monitor.

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Ken,

I may be mistaken but at Wispalooza I thought I heard cambium say that
3.65ghz will be the next frequency they do 450m in, *if* they were to do
another frequency at all. 2.4Ghz would be the last, not even sure if it
would even be possible with 900mhz.

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

> Yeah, you look at that spare AP capacity and start giving away bandwidth,
> next thing you know it you are spending big bucks to upgrade your 10 mile
> licensed backhauls to carry multi gigabit.
>
>
>
> On a side note, I wish there was a 450m in 3.65 GHz, where we are limited
> both in channel size and total spectrum.  No 30 or 40 MHz channels, we use
> all 10 MHz channels.  Probably not going to see any development like that
> at least until CBRS gets settled.  And I’m very, very reluctant to get on
> the LTE bandwagon, having gone through the hype and disappointment cycle
> with WiMAX, and finding it to be basically a best effort service with
> limited capacity.  Yeah, we can connect and pass data at -85 dBm, but
> customer satisfaction is way lower than our 450 customers, we don’t want to
> connect gamers or VoIP customers, and we can’t sell our higher speed
> packages.  At least we are getting CPEs now that are a little less stupid
> than the Gemteks, but I still dread logging into the basestation, I feel
> like it should be on a VT100 green screen monitor.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Kurt Fankhauser
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:58 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>
>
>
> Make them pay for it though, don't leave money at the table unnecessarily.
> Time Warner could be selling me a 10gig fiber connection over the same
> fiber stand that they are selling me a 1gig. Why are they not giving me
> 10gig? Because I know the fiber can handle it. Its because they can and
> they know that nobody else in the area is offering a 10gig connection right
> now. Simple business. I learned that over the last several years that if
> you under-charge for something, every month that goes by that's money that
> you've lost that you'll never get back.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:47 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
> Because you can?
>
> FWIW: I don't mean 50 instead of 20, I mean 20 instead of 5.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
>
> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:42:25 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>
> Don't offer significantly faster speeds in your area unless your forced to
> by a competitor. If your competitor is offer 3mbps packages then you can
> offer 10mbps packages and be safe. But no sense in offering 50mbps packages
> if their only other option is 1.5mbps. What would the point of that be?
> Your basically giving away bandwidth for free that you don't have to be.
> You could give the customer the option of the 50mbps package but at a much
> higher cost since you don't have any competition offering it.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
> End user experience. If you're putting 50 customers on and you're peaking
> relatively low on the frame utilization, you could increase what you're
> offering.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/theb

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

2016-11-02 Thread Ken Hohhof

Yeah, you look at that spare AP capacity and start giving away bandwidth, next 
thing you know it you are spending big bucks to upgrade your 10 mile licensed 
backhauls to carry multi gigabit.

 

On a side note, I wish there was a 450m in 3.65 GHz, where we are limited both 
in channel size and total spectrum.  No 30 or 40 MHz channels, we use all 10 
MHz channels.  Probably not going to see any development like that at least 
until CBRS gets settled.  And I’m very, very reluctant to get on the LTE 
bandwagon, having gone through the hype and disappointment cycle with WiMAX, 
and finding it to be basically a best effort service with limited capacity.  
Yeah, we can connect and pass data at -85 dBm, but customer satisfaction is way 
lower than our 450 customers, we don’t want to connect gamers or VoIP 
customers, and we can’t sell our higher speed packages.  At least we are 
getting CPEs now that are a little less stupid than the Gemteks, but I still 
dread logging into the basestation, I feel like it should be on a VT100 green 
screen monitor.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

 

Make them pay for it though, don't leave money at the table unnecessarily. Time 
Warner could be selling me a 10gig fiber connection over the same fiber stand 
that they are selling me a 1gig. Why are they not giving me 10gig? Because I 
know the fiber can handle it. Its because they can and they know that nobody 
else in the area is offering a 10gig connection right now. Simple business. I 
learned that over the last several years that if you under-charge for 
something, every month that goes by that's money that you've lost that you'll 
never get back.

 

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:47 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net 
<mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote:

Because you can?

FWIW: I don't mean 50 instead of 20, I mean 20 instead of 5.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 





  _  


From: "Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com 
<mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com> >
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:42:25 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Don't offer significantly faster speeds in your area unless your forced to by a 
competitor. If your competitor is offer 3mbps packages then you can offer 
10mbps packages and be safe. But no sense in offering 50mbps packages if their 
only other option is 1.5mbps. What would the point of that be? Your basically 
giving away bandwidth for free that you don't have to be. You could give the 
customer the option of the 50mbps package but at a much higher cost since you 
don't have any competition offering it.

 

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net 
<mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote:

End user experience. If you're putting 50 customers on and you're peaking 
relatively low on the frame utilization, you could increase what you're 
offering.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 





  _  


From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com> >
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:30:36 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

How is being able to serve 100+ subs from one AP a bad thing?

 

Whether APs are cheap or expensive, we are not in the business of buying APs, 
we are in the business of selling Internet to customers.  More customers = 
good.  If we can do that without buying more APs, what’s wrong with that?

 

 

From: Af [mailto: <mailto:af-boun

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

2016-11-02 Thread Stefan Englhardt

A sector Rocket AC Prism with AC Sector Antenna is $350.  Nanobeam AC 19 is $70.

Loading Sector with 20 Users you are at $1750 for AP and CPEs. (With Litebeam 
CPEs you’re even cheaper).



With used PMP450 you are at $4950 with limited CPEs.



UBNT AC does TDMA (Mimosa does not) both do no GPS Sync (Dont know who does 
when but this is how it is now).



With UBNT AC you can dare to do 20 CPEs / AP and will see very good results. I 
would not scale it to > 30 now but looking at the price of APs this is not 
neccesary. As it is .ac it might get an 802.11ax upgrade in the future. 
UBNT-802.11n products have an upgradepath which might not be perfect but it is 
not dead end like PMP320/FSK.



So yes PMP450 is expensive.







Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Kurt Fankhauser
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 2. November 2016 15:38
An: af@afmug.com
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m



I can buy a used PMP450 AP for $1200.00. Add KP Omni for $250 so $1,400.00. The 
mimosa A5-18 Omni lists for $999.00 so the PMP450 is not that much more. I've 
seen used 450 SM's go for $175 for 20mbps ones. I think the Jury is still out 
on how well the Mimosa is going to scale. It probably will take years before we 
know for sure. I definitely would deploy Mimosa over UBNT AC right now. Sounds 
like Mimosa will have sync and anything without sync these days is basically 
un-scalable.



Now on the PMP450 being expensive, yes if you add up the initial expenses 
upfront costs are more. But you really have an asset with the 450 because it 
holds re-sale value very well compared to 802.11 radios. I just sold some old 
FSK SM's over the weekend for 35% of what i paid for them 10 years ago. 
Assuming the 450 will still have 50-60% of its value 5 years form now, and the 
ability to re-coup that money out of the equipment, does it really costs more? 
I think factoring the re-sale value down the road that it costs less



On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net 
<mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote:

For sure frame utilization is important. My thoughts are that if you're loading 
up that many clients on an AP, maybe you ought to be offering faster plans or 
removing other restrictions instead of loading up more on an AP.

Then again, I don't deploy 450, so I don't have high AP costs to be worried 
about.



-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>





  _


From: "Kurt Fankhauser" < <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com> 
lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
To:  <mailto:af@afmug.com> af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:13:06 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

As long as your downlink and uplink frame utilization is not maxing out on the 
450 you can definitely load 100 subs on an AP. With the 30mhz channel width and 
soon to be 40mhz channel width option with the 450 that will just help get more 
subs on per AP. I personally have had 50 subs on an old FSK 2.4AP as recent as 
1 year ago. that AP was capping out at 10mbps on the downlink side. I have no 
doubt that with a 40mhz channel width 450 AP which would net about 175-200mbps 
downlink on average depending on how many subs you have running 6x-8x 
connections and how busy they are that you could easily fit 100+subs on that 
AP. With Medusa and the ability to push 300-400mbps per AP I wouldn't be 
surprised if we start seeing some people get close to 200 subs on a single AP. 
Its all about % of frame unitization.



Now my next question, is Medusa considered Beam Forming? Wasn't the FCC 
originally going to allow higher EIRP on "Smart Antennas." Isn't the Medusa 
about the most smartest AP/Antenna you can get? Just think if the FCC allowed a 
little more power on the Medusa how much more clients you could get because the 
range would be better.



On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Mike Hammett < <mailto:af...@ics-il.net> 
af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

I wouldn't load 100 subs onto any platform out there. There's just not enough 
capacity on any of them.

Same frequency. Technology is how they do it. Tons of stuff out there on how 
beamforming and mu-MIMO works.



-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsD

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

2016-11-02 Thread Gino Villarini

Where are you selling those sms?

From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Kurt 
Fankhauser <lists.wavel...@gmail.com<mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" 
<af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 at 10:38 AM
To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" <af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

I can buy a used PMP450 AP for $1200.00. Add KP Omni for $250 so $1,400.00. The 
mimosa A5-18 Omni lists for $999.00 so the PMP450 is not that much more. I've 
seen used 450 SM's go for $175 for 20mbps ones. I think the Jury is still out 
on how well the Mimosa is going to scale. It probably will take years before we 
know for sure. I definitely would deploy Mimosa over UBNT AC right now. Sounds 
like Mimosa will have sync and anything without sync these days is basically 
un-scalable.

Now on the PMP450 being expensive, yes if you add up the initial expenses 
upfront costs are more. But you really have an asset with the 450 because it 
holds re-sale value very well compared to 802.11 radios. I just sold some old 
FSK SM's over the weekend for 35% of what i paid for them 10 years ago. 
Assuming the 450 will still have 50-60% of its value 5 years form now, and the 
ability to re-coup that money out of the equipment, does it really costs more? 
I think factoring the re-sale value down the road that it costs less

Gino Villarini

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Mike Hammett 
<af...@ics-il.net<mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
For sure frame utilization is important. My thoughts are that if you're loading 
up that many clients on an AP, maybe you ought to be offering faster plans or 
removing other restrictions instead of loading up more on an AP.

Then again, I don't deploy 450, so I don't have high AP costs to be worried 
about.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "Kurt Fankhauser" 
<lists.wavel...@gmail.com<mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:13:06 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

As long as your downlink and uplink frame utilization is not maxing out on the 
450 you can definitely load 100 subs on an AP. With the 30mhz channel width and 
soon to be 40mhz channel width option with the 450 that will just help get more 
subs on per AP. I personally have had 50 subs on an old FSK 2.4AP as recent as 
1 year ago. that AP was capping out at 10mbps on the downlink side. I have no 
doubt that with a 40mhz channel width 450 AP which would net about 175-200mbps 
downlink on average depending on how many subs you have running 6x-8x 
connections and how busy they are that you could easily fit 100+subs on that 
AP. With Medusa and the ability to push 300-400mbps per AP I wouldn't be 
surprised if we start seeing some people get close to 200 subs on a single AP. 
Its all about % of frame unitization.

Now my next question, is Medusa considered Beam Forming? Wasn't the FCC 
originally going to allow higher EIRP on "Smart Antennas." Isn't the Medusa 
about the most smartest AP/Antenna you can get? Just think if the FCC allowed a 
little more power on the Medusa how much more clients you could get because the 
range would be better.

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Mike Hammett 
<af...@ics-il.net<mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
I wouldn't load 100 subs onto any platform out there. There's just not enough 
capacity on any of them.

Same frequency. Technology is how they do it. Tons of stuff out there on how 
beamforming and mu-MIMO works.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<ht

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Make them pay for it though, don't leave money at the table unnecessarily.
Time Warner could be selling me a 10gig fiber connection over the same
fiber stand that they are selling me a 1gig. Why are they not giving me
10gig? Because I know the fiber can handle it. Its because they can and
they know that nobody else in the area is offering a 10gig connection right
now. Simple business. I learned that over the last several years that if
you under-charge for something, every month that goes by that's money that
you've lost that you'll never get back.

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:47 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

> Because you can?
>
> FWIW: I don't mean 50 instead of 20, I mean 20 instead of 5.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------
> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:42:25 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>
> Don't offer significantly faster speeds in your area unless your forced to
> by a competitor. If your competitor is offer 3mbps packages then you can
> offer 10mbps packages and be safe. But no sense in offering 50mbps packages
> if their only other option is 1.5mbps. What would the point of that be?
> Your basically giving away bandwidth for free that you don't have to be.
> You could give the customer the option of the 50mbps package but at a much
> higher cost since you don't have any competition offering it.
>
> On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
>> End user experience. If you're putting 50 customers on and you're peaking
>> relatively low on the frame utilization, you could increase what you're
>> offering.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:30:36 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>>
>> How is being able to serve 100+ subs from one AP a bad thing?
>>
>>
>>
>> Whether APs are cheap or expensive, we are not in the business of buying
>> APs, we are in the business of selling Internet to customers.  More
>> customers = good.  If we can do that without buying more APs, what’s wrong
>> with that?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:19 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>>
>>
>>
>> For sure frame utilization is important. My thoughts are that if you're
>> loading up that many clients on an AP, maybe you ought to be offering
>> faster plans or removing other restrictions instead of loading up more on
>> an AP.
>>
>> Then again, I don't deploy 450, so I don't have high AP costs to be
>> worried about.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Don't offer significantly faster speeds in your area unless your forced to
by a competitor. If your competitor is offer 3mbps packages then you can
offer 10mbps packages and be safe. But no sense in offering 50mbps packages
if their only other option is 1.5mbps. What would the point of that be?
Your basically giving away bandwidth for free that you don't have to be.
You could give the customer the option of the 50mbps package but at a much
higher cost since you don't have any competition offering it.

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

> End user experience. If you're putting 50 customers on and you're peaking
> relatively low on the frame utilization, you could increase what you're
> offering.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ----------
> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:30:36 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>
> How is being able to serve 100+ subs from one AP a bad thing?
>
>
>
> Whether APs are cheap or expensive, we are not in the business of buying
> APs, we are in the business of selling Internet to customers.  More
> customers = good.  If we can do that without buying more APs, what’s wrong
> with that?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:19 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>
>
>
> For sure frame utilization is important. My thoughts are that if you're
> loading up that many clients on an AP, maybe you ought to be offering
> faster plans or removing other restrictions instead of loading up more on
> an AP.
>
> Then again, I don't deploy 450, so I don't have high AP costs to be
> worried about.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
>
> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:13:06 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>
> As long as your downlink and uplink frame utilization is not maxing out on
> the 450 you can definitely load 100 subs on an AP. With the 30mhz channel
> width and soon to be 40mhz channel width option with the 450 that will just
> help get more subs on per AP. I personally have had 50 subs on an old FSK
> 2.4AP as recent as 1 year ago. that AP was capping out at 10mbps on the
> downlink side. I have no doubt that with a 40mhz channel width 450 AP which
> would net about 175-200mbps downlink on average depending on how many subs
> you have running 6x-8x connections and how busy they are that you could
> easily fit 100+subs on that AP. With Medusa and the ability to push
> 300-400mbps per AP I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing some people
> get close to 200 subs on a single AP. Its all about % of frame unitization.
>
>
>
> Now my next question, is Medusa considered Beam Forming? Wasn't the FCC
> originally going to allow higher EIRP on "Smart Antennas." Isn't the Medusa
> about the most smartest AP/Antenna you can get? Just think if the FCC
> allowed a little more power on the Medusa how much more clients you could
> get because the range would be better.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Because you can? 

FWIW: I don't mean 50 instead of 20, I mean 20 instead of 5. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:42:25 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m 


Don't offer significantly faster speeds in your area unless your forced to by a 
competitor. If your competitor is offer 3mbps packages then you can offer 
10mbps packages and be safe. But no sense in offering 50mbps packages if their 
only other option is 1.5mbps. What would the point of that be? Your basically 
giving away bandwidth for free that you don't have to be. You could give the 
customer the option of the 50mbps package but at a much higher cost since you 
don't have any competition offering it. 


On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




End user experience. If you're putting 50 customers on and you're peaking 
relatively low on the frame utilization, you could increase what you're 
offering. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:30:36 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m 



How is being able to serve 100+ subs from one AP a bad thing? 

Whether APs are cheap or expensive, we are not in the business of buying APs, 
we are in the business of selling Internet to customers. More customers = good. 
If we can do that without buying more APs, what’s wrong with that? 




From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:19 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m 


For sure frame utilization is important. My thoughts are that if you're loading 
up that many clients on an AP, maybe you ought to be offering faster plans or 
removing other restrictions instead of loading up more on an AP. 

Then again, I don't deploy 450, so I don't have high AP costs to be worried 
about. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Kurt Fankhauser" < lists.wavel...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:13:06 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m 


As long as your downlink and uplink frame utilization is not maxing out on the 
450 you can definitely load 100 subs on an AP. With the 30mhz channel width and 
soon to be 40mhz channel width option with the 450 that will just help get more 
subs on per AP. I personally have had 50 subs on an old FSK 2.4AP as recent as 
1 year ago. that AP was capping out at 10mbps on the downlink side. I have no 
doubt that with a 40mhz channel width 450 AP which would net about 175-200mbps 
downlink on average depending on how many subs you have running 6x-8x 
connections and how busy they are that you could easily fit 100+subs on that 
AP. With Medusa and the ability to push 300-400mbps per AP I wouldn't be 
surprised if we start seeing some people get close to 200 subs on a single AP. 
Its all about % of frame unitization. 



Now my next question, is Medusa considered Beam Forming? Wasn't the FCC 
originally going to allow higher EIRP on "Smart Antennas." Isn't the Medusa 
about the most smartest AP/Antenna you can get? Just think if the FCC allowed a 
little more power on the Medusa how much more clients you could get because the 
range would be better. 



On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 






I wouldn't load 100 subs onto any platform out there. There's just not enough 
capacity on any of them. 

Same frequency. Technology is how they do it. Tons of stuff out there on how 
beamforming and mu-MIMO works. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Kurt Fankhauser" < lists.wavel...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2016 9:05:18 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m 

Cambium will never lower SM price until a competitor brings another solution to 
market that you could also load 100subs on and not have the thing choke. 
Hopefully Airfiber PTMP will be that. Also what I don't understand about 
Medusa, since it has a bunch of smaller sectors inside of it,, is the sectors 
inside of it running ABABABAB frequency re-use? Why is the SM's not getting 
interference from the adjacent array if they are all operating on same 20mhz 
frequency? 





On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 9:09 PM, George Skorup < geo...@cbcast.com > wrote: 



Update all SMs on the sector to 15.0.0.1. Hang 450m. Shut off 450 sector and 
turn 450m on. Collect stats and share. :) 

Don't have high expectations if you have a high concentration of SMs in one 
d

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

I can buy a used PMP450 AP for $1200.00. Add KP Omni for $250 so $1,400.00.
The mimosa A5-18 Omni lists for $999.00 so the PMP450 is not that much
more. I've seen used 450 SM's go for $175 for 20mbps ones. I think the Jury
is still out on how well the Mimosa is going to scale. It probably will
take years before we know for sure. I definitely would deploy Mimosa over
UBNT AC right now. Sounds like Mimosa will have sync and anything without
sync these days is basically un-scalable.

Now on the PMP450 being expensive, yes if you add up the initial expenses
upfront costs are more. But you really have an asset with the 450 because
it holds re-sale value very well compared to 802.11 radios. I just sold
some old FSK SM's over the weekend for 35% of what i paid for them 10 years
ago. Assuming the 450 will still have 50-60% of its value 5 years form now,
and the ability to re-coup that money out of the equipment, does it really
costs more? I think factoring the re-sale value down the road that it costs
less

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

> For sure frame utilization is important. My thoughts are that if you're
> loading up that many clients on an AP, maybe you ought to be offering
> faster plans or removing other restrictions instead of loading up more on
> an AP.
>
> Then again, I don't deploy 450, so I don't have high AP costs to be
> worried about.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ----------
> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:13:06 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>
> As long as your downlink and uplink frame utilization is not maxing out on
> the 450 you can definitely load 100 subs on an AP. With the 30mhz channel
> width and soon to be 40mhz channel width option with the 450 that will just
> help get more subs on per AP. I personally have had 50 subs on an old FSK
> 2.4AP as recent as 1 year ago. that AP was capping out at 10mbps on the
> downlink side. I have no doubt that with a 40mhz channel width 450 AP which
> would net about 175-200mbps downlink on average depending on how many subs
> you have running 6x-8x connections and how busy they are that you could
> easily fit 100+subs on that AP. With Medusa and the ability to push
> 300-400mbps per AP I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing some people
> get close to 200 subs on a single AP. Its all about % of frame unitization.
>
> Now my next question, is Medusa considered Beam Forming? Wasn't the FCC
> originally going to allow higher EIRP on "Smart Antennas." Isn't the Medusa
> about the most smartest AP/Antenna you can get? Just think if the FCC
> allowed a little more power on the Medusa how much more clients you could
> get because the range would be better.
>
> On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
>> I wouldn't load 100 subs onto any platform out there. There's just not
>> enough capacity on any of them.
>>
>> Same frequency. Technology is how they do it. Tons of stuff out there on
>> how beamforming and mu-MIMO works.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

End user experience. If you're putting 50 customers on and you're peaking 
relatively low on the frame utilization, you could increase what you're 
offering. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:30:36 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m 



How is being able to serve 100+ subs from one AP a bad thing? 

Whether APs are cheap or expensive, we are not in the business of buying APs, 
we are in the business of selling Internet to customers. More customers = good. 
If we can do that without buying more APs, what’s wrong with that? 




From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:19 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m 


For sure frame utilization is important. My thoughts are that if you're loading 
up that many clients on an AP, maybe you ought to be offering faster plans or 
removing other restrictions instead of loading up more on an AP. 

Then again, I don't deploy 450, so I don't have high AP costs to be worried 
about. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "Kurt Fankhauser" < lists.wavel...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:13:06 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m 


As long as your downlink and uplink frame utilization is not maxing out on the 
450 you can definitely load 100 subs on an AP. With the 30mhz channel width and 
soon to be 40mhz channel width option with the 450 that will just help get more 
subs on per AP. I personally have had 50 subs on an old FSK 2.4AP as recent as 
1 year ago. that AP was capping out at 10mbps on the downlink side. I have no 
doubt that with a 40mhz channel width 450 AP which would net about 175-200mbps 
downlink on average depending on how many subs you have running 6x-8x 
connections and how busy they are that you could easily fit 100+subs on that 
AP. With Medusa and the ability to push 300-400mbps per AP I wouldn't be 
surprised if we start seeing some people get close to 200 subs on a single AP. 
Its all about % of frame unitization. 



Now my next question, is Medusa considered Beam Forming? Wasn't the FCC 
originally going to allow higher EIRP on "Smart Antennas." Isn't the Medusa 
about the most smartest AP/Antenna you can get? Just think if the FCC allowed a 
little more power on the Medusa how much more clients you could get because the 
range would be better. 



On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




I wouldn't load 100 subs onto any platform out there. There's just not enough 
capacity on any of them. 

Same frequency. Technology is how they do it. Tons of stuff out there on how 
beamforming and mu-MIMO works. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Kurt Fankhauser" < lists.wavel...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2016 9:05:18 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m 

Cambium will never lower SM price until a competitor brings another solution to 
market that you could also load 100subs on and not have the thing choke. 
Hopefully Airfiber PTMP will be that. Also what I don't understand about 
Medusa, since it has a bunch of smaller sectors inside of it,, is the sectors 
inside of it running ABABABAB frequency re-use? Why is the SM's not getting 
interference from the adjacent array if they are all operating on same 20mhz 
frequency? 





On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 9:09 PM, George Skorup < geo...@cbcast.com > wrote: 



Update all SMs on the sector to 15.0.0.1. Hang 450m. Shut off 450 sector and 
turn 450m on. Collect stats and share. :) 

Don't have high expectations if you have a high concentration of SMs in one 
direction. But you should really see a difference where they're fairly spread 
out over 60-90 degrees. Remember it's 7x 13-degree beams and tweaking the 
azimuth just a little bit may help balance things out. 

On 11/1/2016 1:58 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote: 



That is 100% why I want to use it.ï¿½ We have an overloaded AP and no new 
frequency.ï¿½ A 3x performance boost will solve the problem.ï¿½ I also hope the 
17 degree beams will reduce interference seen by the AP. 
ï¿½ 


From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of George Skorup 
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:30 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m 
ï¿½ 


The data that Matt showed us at HQ a few weeks ago where an operator (not in 
the US) with over 100 SMs! on a single 450 sector proved that a performance 
boost of 3-3.5x is possible simply by swapping to a 450m sector. And that's 
still using only that single 20MHz channe

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

2016-11-02 Thread Ken Hohhof

How is being able to serve 100+ subs from one AP a bad thing?

 

Whether APs are cheap or expensive, we are not in the business of buying APs, 
we are in the business of selling Internet to customers.  More customers = 
good.  If we can do that without buying more APs, what’s wrong with that?

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:19 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

 

For sure frame utilization is important. My thoughts are that if you're loading 
up that many clients on an AP, maybe you ought to be offering faster plans or 
removing other restrictions instead of loading up more on an AP.

Then again, I don't deploy 450, so I don't have high AP costs to be worried 
about.



-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 




  _  

From: "Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com 
<mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com> >
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:13:06 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

As long as your downlink and uplink frame utilization is not maxing out on the 
450 you can definitely load 100 subs on an AP. With the 30mhz channel width and 
soon to be 40mhz channel width option with the 450 that will just help get more 
subs on per AP. I personally have had 50 subs on an old FSK 2.4AP as recent as 
1 year ago. that AP was capping out at 10mbps on the downlink side. I have no 
doubt that with a 40mhz channel width 450 AP which would net about 175-200mbps 
downlink on average depending on how many subs you have running 6x-8x 
connections and how busy they are that you could easily fit 100+subs on that 
AP. With Medusa and the ability to push 300-400mbps per AP I wouldn't be 
surprised if we start seeing some people get close to 200 subs on a single AP. 
Its all about % of frame unitization.

 

Now my next question, is Medusa considered Beam Forming? Wasn't the FCC 
originally going to allow higher EIRP on "Smart Antennas." Isn't the Medusa 
about the most smartest AP/Antenna you can get? Just think if the FCC allowed a 
little more power on the Medusa how much more clients you could get because the 
range would be better.

 

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net 
<mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote:

I wouldn't load 100 subs onto any platform out there. There's just not enough 
capacity on any of them.

Same frequency. Technology is how they do it. Tons of stuff out there on how 
beamforming and mu-MIMO works.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> 
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 





  _  


From: "Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com 
<mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com> >
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2016 9:05:18 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Cambium will never lower SM price until a competitor brings another solution to 
market that you could also load 100subs on and not have the thing choke. 
Hopefully Airfiber PTMP will be that. Also what I don't understand about 
Medusa, since it has a bunch of smaller sectors inside of it,, is the sectors 
inside of it running ABABABAB frequency re-use? Why is the SM's not getting 
interference from the adjacent array if they are all operating on same 20mhz 
frequency? 

 

On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 9:09 PM, George Skorup <geo...@cbcast.com 
<mailto:geo...@cbcast.com> > wrote:

Update all SMs on the sector to 15.0.0.1. Hang 450m. Shut off 450 sector and 
turn 450m on. Collect stats and share. :)

Don't have high expectations if you have a high concentration of SMs in one 
direction. But you s

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

For sure frame utilization is important. My thoughts are that if you're loading 
up that many clients on an AP, maybe you ought to be offering faster plans or 
removing other restrictions instead of loading up more on an AP. 

Then again, I don't deploy 450, so I don't have high AP costs to be worried 
about. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:13:06 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m 



As long as your downlink and uplink frame utilization is not maxing out on the 
450 you can definitely load 100 subs on an AP. With the 30mhz channel width and 
soon to be 40mhz channel width option with the 450 that will just help get more 
subs on per AP. I personally have had 50 subs on an old FSK 2.4AP as recent as 
1 year ago. that AP was capping out at 10mbps on the downlink side. I have no 
doubt that with a 40mhz channel width 450 AP which would net about 175-200mbps 
downlink on average depending on how many subs you have running 6x-8x 
connections and how busy they are that you could easily fit 100+subs on that 
AP. With Medusa and the ability to push 300-400mbps per AP I wouldn't be 
surprised if we start seeing some people get close to 200 subs on a single AP. 
Its all about % of frame unitization. 


Now my next question, is Medusa considered Beam Forming? Wasn't the FCC 
originally going to allow higher EIRP on "Smart Antennas." Isn't the Medusa 
about the most smartest AP/Antenna you can get? Just think if the FCC allowed a 
little more power on the Medusa how much more clients you could get because the 
range would be better. 


On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




I wouldn't load 100 subs onto any platform out there. There's just not enough 
capacity on any of them. 

Same frequency. Technology is how they do it. Tons of stuff out there on how 
beamforming and mu-MIMO works. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Kurt Fankhauser" < lists.wavel...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2016 9:05:18 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m 


Cambium will never lower SM price until a competitor brings another solution to 
market that you could also load 100subs on and not have the thing choke. 
Hopefully Airfiber PTMP will be that. Also what I don't understand about 
Medusa, since it has a bunch of smaller sectors inside of it,, is the sectors 
inside of it running ABABABAB frequency re-use? Why is the SM's not getting 
interference from the adjacent array if they are all operating on same 20mhz 
frequency? 




On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 9:09 PM, George Skorup < geo...@cbcast.com > wrote: 



Update all SMs on the sector to 15.0.0.1. Hang 450m. Shut off 450 sector and 
turn 450m on. Collect stats and share. :) 

Don't have high expectations if you have a high concentration of SMs in one 
direction. But you should really see a difference where they're fairly spread 
out over 60-90 degrees. Remember it's 7x 13-degree beams and tweaking the 
azimuth just a little bit may help balance things out. 


On 11/1/2016 1:58 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote: 




That is 100% why I want to use it.ï¿½ We have an overloaded AP and no new 
frequency.ï¿½ A 3x performance boost will solve the problem.ï¿½ I also hope the 
17 degree beams will reduce interference seen by the AP. 
ï¿½ 


From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of George Skorup 
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:30 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m 
ï¿½ 


The data that Matt showed us at HQ a few weeks ago where an operator (not in 
the US) with over 100 SMs! on a single 450 sector proved that a performance 
boost of 3-3.5x is possible simply by swapping to a 450m sector. And that's 
still using only that single 20MHz channel in 90 degrees. They created this 
thing for a reason. And that right there is it. Nuckin futs. 

On 11/1/2016 9:17 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: 





Rise Broadband 

? 



ï¿½ 


From: Matt Mangriotis 

Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:08 AM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m 

ï¿½ 

I will say that we have a [very large] customer that will remain nameless, 
which has ~1100 active customers across more than 12 sectors of 450m.ï¿½ They 
are very pleased with the performance. 
ï¿½ 
There are several others that are putting up their first sectors now as 
well.ï¿½ If you run into issues, we are escalating support cases to our team 
that has a lot of experience in deploying this model. 
ï¿½ 
Matt 
ï¿½ 


From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 8:34 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m 
ï¿½ 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

As long as your downlink and uplink frame utilization is not maxing out on
the 450 you can definitely load 100 subs on an AP. With the 30mhz channel
width and soon to be 40mhz channel width option with the 450 that will just
help get more subs on per AP. I personally have had 50 subs on an old FSK
2.4AP as recent as 1 year ago. that AP was capping out at 10mbps on the
downlink side. I have no doubt that with a 40mhz channel width 450 AP which
would net about 175-200mbps downlink on average depending on how many subs
you have running 6x-8x connections and how busy they are that you could
easily fit 100+subs on that AP. With Medusa and the ability to push
300-400mbps per AP I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing some people
get close to 200 subs on a single AP. Its all about % of frame unitization.

Now my next question, is Medusa considered Beam Forming? Wasn't the FCC
originally going to allow higher EIRP on "Smart Antennas." Isn't the Medusa
about the most smartest AP/Antenna you can get? Just think if the FCC
allowed a little more power on the Medusa how much more clients you could
get because the range would be better.

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

> I wouldn't load 100 subs onto any platform out there. There's just not
> enough capacity on any of them.
>
> Same frequency. Technology is how they do it. Tons of stuff out there on
> how beamforming and mu-MIMO works.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ----------
> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Tuesday, November 1, 2016 9:05:18 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>
> Cambium will never lower SM price until a competitor brings another
> solution to market that you could also load 100subs on and not have the
> thing choke. Hopefully Airfiber PTMP will be that. Also what I don't
> understand about Medusa, since it has a bunch of smaller sectors inside of
> it,, is the sectors inside of it running ABABABAB frequency re-use? Why is
> the SM's not getting interference from the adjacent array if they are all
> operating on same 20mhz frequency?
>
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 9:09 PM, George Skorup <geo...@cbcast.com> wrote:
>
>> Update all SMs on the sector to 15.0.0.1. Hang 450m. Shut off 450 sector
>> and turn 450m on. Collect stats and share. :)
>>
>> Don't have high expectations if you have a high concentration of SMs in
>> one direction. But you should really see a difference where they're fairly
>> spread out over 60-90 degrees. Remember it's 7x 13-degree beams and
>> tweaking the azimuth just a little bit may help balance things out.
>>
>> On 11/1/2016 1:58 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote:
>>
>> That is 100% why I want to use it.ï¿½ We have an overloaded AP and no new
>> frequency.ï¿½ A 3x performance boost will solve the problem.ï¿½ I also hope
>> the 17 degree beams will reduce interference seen by the AP.
>>
>> ï¿½
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
>> Behalf Of *George Skorup
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:30 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>>
>> ï¿½
>>
>> The data that Matt showed us at HQ a few weeks ago where an operator (not
>> in the US) with over 100 SMs! on a single 450 sector proved that a
>> performance boost of 3-3.5x is possible simply by swapping to a 450m
>> sector. And that's still using only that single 20MHz channel in 90
>> degrees. They created this thing for a reason. And that right there is it.
>> Nuckin futs.
>>
>> On 11/1/2016 9:17 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> Rise Broadband
>>
>> ?
>>
>> ï¿½
>>
>> *From:* Matt Mangriotis
>>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:08 AM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>>
>> ï¿½
>>
>> I will say that we have a [very large] customer that will

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

I wouldn't load 100 subs onto any platform out there. There's just not enough 
capacity on any of them. 

Same frequency. Technology is how they do it. Tons of stuff out there on how 
beamforming and mu-MIMO works. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2016 9:05:18 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m 


Cambium will never lower SM price until a competitor brings another solution to 
market that you could also load 100subs on and not have the thing choke. 
Hopefully Airfiber PTMP will be that. Also what I don't understand about 
Medusa, since it has a bunch of smaller sectors inside of it,, is the sectors 
inside of it running ABABABAB frequency re-use? Why is the SM's not getting 
interference from the adjacent array if they are all operating on same 20mhz 
frequency? 


On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 9:09 PM, George Skorup < geo...@cbcast.com > wrote: 



Update all SMs on the sector to 15.0.0.1. Hang 450m. Shut off 450 sector and 
turn 450m on. Collect stats and share. :) 

Don't have high expectations if you have a high concentration of SMs in one 
direction. But you should really see a difference where they're fairly spread 
out over 60-90 degrees. Remember it's 7x 13-degree beams and tweaking the 
azimuth just a little bit may help balance things out. 


On 11/1/2016 1:58 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote: 




That is 100% why I want to use it.ï¿½ We have an overloaded AP and no new 
frequency.ï¿½ A 3x performance boost will solve the problem.ï¿½ I also hope the 
17 degree beams will reduce interference seen by the AP. 
ï¿½ 


From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of George Skorup 
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:30 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m 
ï¿½ 


The data that Matt showed us at HQ a few weeks ago where an operator (not in 
the US) with over 100 SMs! on a single 450 sector proved that a performance 
boost of 3-3.5x is possible simply by swapping to a 450m sector. And that's 
still using only that single 20MHz channel in 90 degrees. They created this 
thing for a reason. And that right there is it. Nuckin futs. 

On 11/1/2016 9:17 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: 





Rise Broadband 

? 



ï¿½ 


From: Matt Mangriotis 

Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:08 AM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m 

ï¿½ 

I will say that we have a [very large] customer that will remain nameless, 
which has ~1100 active customers across more than 12 sectors of 450m.ï¿½ They 
are very pleased with the performance. 
ï¿½ 
There are several others that are putting up their first sectors now as 
well.ï¿½ If you run into issues, we are escalating support cases to our team 
that has a lot of experience in deploying this model. 
ï¿½ 
Matt 
ï¿½ 


From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 8:34 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m 
ï¿½ 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_and_Gaston#/media/File:Alphonsegaston.jpg
 
ï¿½ 
ï¿½ 


From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 7:39 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m 
ï¿½ 
Our first 450m should arrive this week.ï¿½ We plan to replace an existing 450 
AP that has 66 customers for our first deployment. 
ï¿½ 
However, I do not want to do this until I have heard that there are some 
installed and working. 
ï¿½ 
Does anyone have 450m up and running.ï¿½ Would you please share your 
experiences and results. 
ï¿½ 
Thanks 
ï¿½ 
Adam 
ï¿½ 
ï¿½ 


ï¿½

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

2016-11-02 Thread Stefan Englhardt

Magic sauce ;-)). The beamformer has to shape it’s beams to get the separation. 
I guess the results are not predictable and may be very different at different 
locations.

Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Forrest Christian (List 
Account)
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 2. November 2016 10:13
An: af <af@afmug.com>
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

My understanding is that as long as it can get enough diversity between two sms 
it will transmit at the same time, up to 7 simultaneous transmissions.  Same 
for rx.

The key word here is diversity.  There are lots of different ways to get 
diversity.   Which of these cambium is able to exploit with the medusa I'm 
still not 100% clear on.  At least direction for sure.

On Nov 2, 2016 3:51 AM, "Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com 
<mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com> > wrote:

how many arrays are in in? 7 or 14? I wonder if it wont transmit on two 
adjacent arrays at the same time

Sent from my iPhone

Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com
tel. 419-562-6405 
fax. 419-617-0110 

> On Nov 1, 2016, at 10:41 PM, George Skorup <geo...@cbcast.com 
> <mailto:geo...@cbcast.com> > wrote:
>
> Because it's capable of transmitting different data on each of the 7 2x2 MIMO 
> emitters in the same frame. aka MU-MIMO. Think about a single 2x2 sector. It 
> can talk to only one SM. Now add another sector facing the same direction. 
> You've doubled your capacity, right? Sure, but you're using twice the 
> spectrum. Put up 3x 30-degree or 5x 20-degree sectors. More spectrum, more 
> hardware. The cost of the hardware adds up, but is kind of a moot point. The 
> spectrum, or lack of, is not so moot.
>
>> On 11/1/2016 9:05 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>> Also what I don't understand about Medusa, since it has a bunch of smaller 
>> sectors inside of it,, is the sectors inside of it running ABABABAB 
>> frequency re-use? Why is the SM's not getting interference from the adjacent 
>> array if they are all operating on same 20mhz frequency?
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

2016-11-02 Thread Forrest Christian (List Account)

My understanding is that as long as it can get enough diversity between two
sms it will transmit at the same time, up to 7 simultaneous transmissions.
Same for rx.

The key word here is diversity.  There are lots of different ways to get
diversity.   Which of these cambium is able to exploit with the medusa I'm
still not 100% clear on.  At least direction for sure.

On Nov 2, 2016 3:51 AM, "Kurt Fankhauser"  wrote:

> how many arrays are in in? 7 or 14? I wonder if it wont transmit on two
> adjacent arrays at the same time
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> Kurt Fankhauser
> Wavelinc Communications
> P.O. Box 126
> Bucyrus, OH 44820
> http://www.wavelinc.com
> tel. 419-562-6405
> fax. 419-617-0110
>
> > On Nov 1, 2016, at 10:41 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
> >
> > Because it's capable of transmitting different data on each of the 7 2x2
> MIMO emitters in the same frame. aka MU-MIMO. Think about a single 2x2
> sector. It can talk to only one SM. Now add another sector facing the same
> direction. You've doubled your capacity, right? Sure, but you're using
> twice the spectrum. Put up 3x 30-degree or 5x 20-degree sectors. More
> spectrum, more hardware. The cost of the hardware adds up, but is kind of a
> moot point. The spectrum, or lack of, is not so moot.
> >
> >> On 11/1/2016 9:05 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
> >> Also what I don't understand about Medusa, since it has a bunch of
> smaller sectors inside of it,, is the sectors inside of it running ABABABAB
> frequency re-use? Why is the SM's not getting interference from the
> adjacent array if they are all operating on same 20mhz frequency?
> >
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Yes, I'm sure there are some tricky algorithms so it finds non adjacent subs
to talk to simultaneously.  They said you would need subs distributed across
the sector to get maximum benefit.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2016 9:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

how many arrays are in in? 7 or 14? I wonder if it wont transmit on two
adjacent arrays at the same time

Sent from my iPhone

Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com
tel. 419-562-6405
fax. 419-617-0110

> On Nov 1, 2016, at 10:41 PM, George Skorup <geo...@cbcast.com> wrote:
> 
> Because it's capable of transmitting different data on each of the 7 2x2
MIMO emitters in the same frame. aka MU-MIMO. Think about a single 2x2
sector. It can talk to only one SM. Now add another sector facing the same
direction. You've doubled your capacity, right? Sure, but you're using twice
the spectrum. Put up 3x 30-degree or 5x 20-degree sectors. More spectrum,
more hardware. The cost of the hardware adds up, but is kind of a moot
point. The spectrum, or lack of, is not so moot.
> 
>> On 11/1/2016 9:05 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>> Also what I don't understand about Medusa, since it has a bunch of
smaller sectors inside of it,, is the sectors inside of it running ABABABAB
frequency re-use? Why is the SM's not getting interference from the adjacent
array if they are all operating on same 20mhz frequency?
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

2016-11-01 Thread Rory Conaway

Most of our traffic is UDP one direction, NetFlix so it doesn’t seem to be an 
issue.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 7:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Are all the clients able to see each other? How are you not sufferig from 
hidden node with that many users on an AP in wifi mode?

Sent from my iPhone

Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com
tel. 419-562-6405
fax. 419-617-0110

On Nov 1, 2016, at 10:40 PM, Rory Conaway 
<r...@triadwireless.net<mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:
WiFi mode.  It has mixed users, C5’s and Ubiquiti.  TDMA isn’t out yet.   We 
are pretty much stuck with that in most of our areas unless we want to replace 
several hundred radios.  New areas are all Mimosa’s so those will be TDMA.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 7:28 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Rory,

Is that Mimosa A5 running in WIFI mode or do you have TDMA firmware for it?

On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 10:20 PM, Rory Conaway 
<r...@triadwireless.net<mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:
I’ve got Mimosa Networks A5s with 50 users running about 14% utilization so 100 
users shouldn’t be a big problem.  We have an A5c going up tomorrow that should 
be pushing the 100 in the next 60 days.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 7:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Cambium will never lower SM price until a competitor brings another solution to 
market that you could also load 100subs on and not have the thing choke. 
Hopefully Airfiber PTMP will be that. Also what I don't understand about 
Medusa, since it has a bunch of smaller sectors inside of it,, is the sectors 
inside of it running ABABABAB frequency re-use? Why is the SM's not getting 
interference from the adjacent array if they are all operating on same 20mhz 
frequency?

On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 9:09 PM, George Skorup 
<geo...@cbcast.com<mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
Update all SMs on the sector to 15.0.0.1. Hang 450m. Shut off 450 sector and 
turn 450m on. Collect stats and share. :)

Don't have high expectations if you have a high concentration of SMs in one 
direction. But you should really see a difference where they're fairly spread 
out over 60-90 degrees. Remember it's 7x 13-degree beams and tweaking the 
azimuth just a little bit may help balance things out.
On 11/1/2016 1:58 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote:
That is 100% why I want to use it.ï¿½ We have an overloaded AP and no new 
frequency.ï¿½ A 3x performance boost will solve the problem.ï¿½ I also hope the 
17 degree beams will reduce interference seen by the AP.
ï¿½
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
ï¿½
The data that Matt showed us at HQ a few weeks ago where an operator (not in 
the US) with over 100 SMs! on a single 450 sector proved that a performance 
boost of 3-3.5x is possible simply by swapping to a 450m sector. And that's 
still using only that single 20MHz channel in 90 degrees. They created this 
thing for a reason. And that right there is it. Nuckin futs.
On 11/1/2016 9:17 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Rise Broadband
?
ï¿½
From: Matt Mangriotis
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:08 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
ï¿½
I will say that we have a [very large] customer that will remain nameless, 
which has ~1100 active customers across more than 12 sectors of 450m.ï¿½ They 
are very pleased with the performance.
ï¿½
There are several others that are putting up their first sectors now as 
well.ï¿½ If you run into issues, we are escalating support cases to our team 
that has a lot of experience in deploying this model.
ï¿½
Matt
ï¿½
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 8:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
ï¿½
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_and_Gaston#/media/File:Alphonsegaston.jpg<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAlphonse_and_Gaston%23%2Fmedia%2FFile%3AAlphonsegaston.jpg=01%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Cbe305b2cb945442e3cad08d401f726bf%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C1=KVm6mRWBg3SiYCVBHxQYPrJliSwuQdAP2VPMOG5mGJo%3D=0>
ï¿½
ï¿½
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 7:39 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
ï¿½
Our first 450m should arrive this

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

how many arrays are in in? 7 or 14? I wonder if it wont transmit on two 
adjacent arrays at the same time

Sent from my iPhone

Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com
tel. 419-562-6405
fax. 419-617-0110

> On Nov 1, 2016, at 10:41 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
> 
> Because it's capable of transmitting different data on each of the 7 2x2 MIMO 
> emitters in the same frame. aka MU-MIMO. Think about a single 2x2 sector. It 
> can talk to only one SM. Now add another sector facing the same direction. 
> You've doubled your capacity, right? Sure, but you're using twice the 
> spectrum. Put up 3x 30-degree or 5x 20-degree sectors. More spectrum, more 
> hardware. The cost of the hardware adds up, but is kind of a moot point. The 
> spectrum, or lack of, is not so moot.
> 
>> On 11/1/2016 9:05 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>> Also what I don't understand about Medusa, since it has a bunch of smaller 
>> sectors inside of it,, is the sectors inside of it running ABABABAB 
>> frequency re-use? Why is the SM's not getting interference from the adjacent 
>> array if they are all operating on same 20mhz frequency?
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Are all the clients able to see each other? How are you not sufferig from 
hidden node with that many users on an AP in wifi mode?

Sent from my iPhone

Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com
tel. 419-562-6405
fax. 419-617-0110

> On Nov 1, 2016, at 10:40 PM, Rory Conaway <r...@triadwireless.net> wrote:
> 
> WiFi mode.  It has mixed users, C5’s and Ubiquiti.  TDMA isn’t out yet.   We 
> are pretty much stuck with that in most of our areas unless we want to 
> replace several hundred radios.  New areas are all Mimosa’s so those will be 
> TDMA.
>  
> Rory
>  
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 7:28 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>  
> Rory,
>  
> Is that Mimosa A5 running in WIFI mode or do you have TDMA firmware for it?
>  
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 10:20 PM, Rory Conaway <r...@triadwireless.net> wrote:
> I’ve got Mimosa Networks A5s with 50 users running about 14% utilization so 
> 100 users shouldn’t be a big problem.  We have an A5c going up tomorrow that 
> should be pushing the 100 in the next 60 days.
>  
> Rory
>  
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 7:05 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>  
> Cambium will never lower SM price until a competitor brings another solution 
> to market that you could also load 100subs on and not have the thing choke. 
> Hopefully Airfiber PTMP will be that. Also what I don't understand about 
> Medusa, since it has a bunch of smaller sectors inside of it,, is the sectors 
> inside of it running ABABABAB frequency re-use? Why is the SM's not getting 
> interference from the adjacent array if they are all operating on same 20mhz 
> frequency?
>  
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 9:09 PM, George Skorup <geo...@cbcast.com> wrote:
> Update all SMs on the sector to 15.0.0.1. Hang 450m. Shut off 450 sector and 
> turn 450m on. Collect stats and share. :)
> 
> Don't have high expectations if you have a high concentration of SMs in one 
> direction. But you should really see a difference where they're fairly spread 
> out over 60-90 degrees. Remember it's 7x 13-degree beams and tweaking the 
> azimuth just a little bit may help balance things out.
> 
> On 11/1/2016 1:58 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote:
> That is 100% why I want to use it.ï¿½ We have an overloaded AP and no new 
> frequency.ï¿½ A 3x performance boost will solve the problem.ï¿½ I also hope 
> the 17 degree beams will reduce interference seen by the AP.
> ï¿½
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:30 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
> ï¿½
> The data that Matt showed us at HQ a few weeks ago where an operator (not in 
> the US) with over 100 SMs! on a single 450 sector proved that a performance 
> boost of 3-3.5x is possible simply by swapping to a 450m sector. And that's 
> still using only that single 20MHz channel in 90 degrees. They created this 
> thing for a reason. And that right there is it. Nuckin futs.
> 
> On 11/1/2016 9:17 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
> Rise Broadband
> ?
> ï¿½
> From: Matt Mangriotis
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:08 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
> ï¿½
> I will say that we have a [very large] customer that will remain nameless, 
> which has ~1100 active customers across more than 12 sectors of 450m.ï¿½ They 
> are very pleased with the performance.
> ï¿½
> There are several others that are putting up their first sectors now as 
> well.ï¿½ If you run into issues, we are escalating support cases to our team 
> that has a lot of experience in deploying this model.
> ï¿½
> Matt
> ï¿½
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 8:34 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
> ï¿½
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_and_Gaston#/media/File:Alphonsegaston.jpg
> ï¿½
> ï¿½
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 7:39 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
> ï¿½
> Our first 450m should arrive this week.ï¿½ We plan to replace an existing 450 
> AP that has 66 customers for our first deployment.
> ï¿½
> However, I do not want to do this until I have heard that there are some 
> installed and working.
> ï¿½
> Does anyone have 450m up and running.ï¿½ Would you please share your 
> experiences and results.
> ï¿½
> Thanks
> ï¿½
> Adam
> ï¿½
> ï¿½
> ï¿½
>  
>  
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

2016-11-01 Thread George Skorup

Because it's capable of transmitting different data on each of the 7 2x2 
MIMO emitters in the same frame. aka MU-MIMO. Think about a single 2x2 
sector. It can talk to only one SM. Now add another sector facing the 
same direction. You've doubled your capacity, right? Sure, but you're 
using twice the spectrum. Put up 3x 30-degree or 5x 20-degree sectors. 
More spectrum, more hardware. The cost of the hardware adds up, but is 
kind of a moot point. The spectrum, or lack of, is not so moot.


On 11/1/2016 9:05 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
Also what I don't understand about Medusa, since it has a bunch of 
smaller sectors inside of it,, is the sectors inside of it running 
ABABABAB frequency re-use? Why is the SM's not getting interference 
from the adjacent array if they are all operating on same 20mhz frequency?

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

2016-11-01 Thread Rory Conaway

WiFi mode.  It has mixed users, C5’s and Ubiquiti.  TDMA isn’t out yet.   We 
are pretty much stuck with that in most of our areas unless we want to replace 
several hundred radios.  New areas are all Mimosa’s so those will be TDMA.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 7:28 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Rory,

Is that Mimosa A5 running in WIFI mode or do you have TDMA firmware for it?

On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 10:20 PM, Rory Conaway 
<r...@triadwireless.net<mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:
I’ve got Mimosa Networks A5s with 50 users running about 14% utilization so 100 
users shouldn’t be a big problem.  We have an A5c going up tomorrow that should 
be pushing the 100 in the next 60 days.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 7:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Cambium will never lower SM price until a competitor brings another solution to 
market that you could also load 100subs on and not have the thing choke. 
Hopefully Airfiber PTMP will be that. Also what I don't understand about 
Medusa, since it has a bunch of smaller sectors inside of it,, is the sectors 
inside of it running ABABABAB frequency re-use? Why is the SM's not getting 
interference from the adjacent array if they are all operating on same 20mhz 
frequency?

On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 9:09 PM, George Skorup 
<geo...@cbcast.com<mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
Update all SMs on the sector to 15.0.0.1. Hang 450m. Shut off 450 sector and 
turn 450m on. Collect stats and share. :)

Don't have high expectations if you have a high concentration of SMs in one 
direction. But you should really see a difference where they're fairly spread 
out over 60-90 degrees. Remember it's 7x 13-degree beams and tweaking the 
azimuth just a little bit may help balance things out.
On 11/1/2016 1:58 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote:
That is 100% why I want to use it.ï¿½ We have an overloaded AP and no new 
frequency.ï¿½ A 3x performance boost will solve the problem.ï¿½ I also hope the 
17 degree beams will reduce interference seen by the AP.
ï¿½
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
ï¿½
The data that Matt showed us at HQ a few weeks ago where an operator (not in 
the US) with over 100 SMs! on a single 450 sector proved that a performance 
boost of 3-3.5x is possible simply by swapping to a 450m sector. And that's 
still using only that single 20MHz channel in 90 degrees. They created this 
thing for a reason. And that right there is it. Nuckin futs.
On 11/1/2016 9:17 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Rise Broadband
?
ï¿½
From: Matt Mangriotis
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:08 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
ï¿½
I will say that we have a [very large] customer that will remain nameless, 
which has ~1100 active customers across more than 12 sectors of 450m.ï¿½ They 
are very pleased with the performance.
ï¿½
There are several others that are putting up their first sectors now as 
well.ï¿½ If you run into issues, we are escalating support cases to our team 
that has a lot of experience in deploying this model.
ï¿½
Matt
ï¿½
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 8:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
ï¿½
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_and_Gaston#/media/File:Alphonsegaston.jpg<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAlphonse_and_Gaston%23%2Fmedia%2FFile%3AAlphonsegaston.jpg=01%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Cbe305b2cb945442e3cad08d401f726bf%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C1=KVm6mRWBg3SiYCVBHxQYPrJliSwuQdAP2VPMOG5mGJo%3D=0>
ï¿½
ï¿½
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 7:39 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
ï¿½
Our first 450m should arrive this week.ï¿½ We plan to replace an existing 450 
AP that has 66 customers for our first deployment.
ï¿½
However, I do not want to do this until I have heard that there are some 
installed and working.
ï¿½
Does anyone have 450m up and running.ï¿½ Would you please share your 
experiences and results.
ï¿½
Thanks
ï¿½
Adam
ï¿½
ï¿½
ï¿½

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Rory,

Is that Mimosa A5 running in WIFI mode or do you have TDMA firmware for it?

On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 10:20 PM, Rory Conaway <r...@triadwireless.net>
wrote:

> I’ve got Mimosa Networks A5s with 50 users running about 14% utilization
> so 100 users shouldn’t be a big problem.  We have an A5c going up tomorrow
> that should be pushing the 100 in the next 60 days.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Kurt Fankhauser
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2016 7:05 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>
>
>
> Cambium will never lower SM price until a competitor brings another
> solution to market that you could also load 100subs on and not have the
> thing choke. Hopefully Airfiber PTMP will be that. Also what I don't
> understand about Medusa, since it has a bunch of smaller sectors inside of
> it,, is the sectors inside of it running ABABABAB frequency re-use? Why is
> the SM's not getting interference from the adjacent array if they are all
> operating on same 20mhz frequency?
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 9:09 PM, George Skorup <geo...@cbcast.com> wrote:
>
> Update all SMs on the sector to 15.0.0.1. Hang 450m. Shut off 450 sector
> and turn 450m on. Collect stats and share. :)
>
> Don't have high expectations if you have a high concentration of SMs in
> one direction. But you should really see a difference where they're fairly
> spread out over 60-90 degrees. Remember it's 7x 13-degree beams and
> tweaking the azimuth just a little bit may help balance things out.
>
> On 11/1/2016 1:58 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote:
>
> That is 100% why I want to use it.ï¿½ We have an overloaded AP and no new
> frequency.ï¿½ A 3x performance boost will solve the problem.ï¿½ I also hope
> the 17 degree beams will reduce interference seen by the AP.
>
> ï¿½
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *George Skorup
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:30 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>
> ï¿½
>
> The data that Matt showed us at HQ a few weeks ago where an operator (not
> in the US) with over 100 SMs! on a single 450 sector proved that a
> performance boost of 3-3.5x is possible simply by swapping to a 450m
> sector. And that's still using only that single 20MHz channel in 90
> degrees. They created this thing for a reason. And that right there is it.
> Nuckin futs.
>
> On 11/1/2016 9:17 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Rise Broadband
>
> ?
>
> ï¿½
>
> *From:* Matt Mangriotis
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:08 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>
> ï¿½
>
> I will say that we have a [very large] customer that will remain nameless,
> which has ~1100 active customers across more than 12 sectors of 450m.ï¿½
> They are very pleased with the performance.
>
> ï¿½
>
> There are several others that are putting up their first sectors now as
> well.ï¿½ If you run into issues, we are escalating support cases to our
> team that has a lot of experience in deploying this model.
>
> ï¿½
>
> Matt
>
> ï¿½
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 8:34 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>
> ï¿½
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_and_Gaston#/media/
> File:Alphonsegaston.jpg
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAlphonse_and_Gaston%23%2Fmedia%2FFile%3AAlphonsegaston.jpg=01%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Cbe305b2cb945442e3cad08d401f726bf%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C1=KVm6mRWBg3SiYCVBHxQYPrJliSwuQdAP2VPMOG5mGJo%3D=0>
>
> ï¿½
>
> ï¿½
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *SmarterBroadband
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 7:39 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>
> ï¿½
>
> Our first 450m should arrive this week.ï¿½ We plan to replace an existing
> 450 AP that has 66 customers for our first deployment.
>
> ï¿½
>
> However, I do not want to do this until I have heard that there are some
> installed and working.
>
> ï¿½
>
> Does anyone have 450m up and running.ï¿½ Would you please share your
> experiences and results.
>
> ï¿½
>
> Thanks
>
> ï¿½
>
> Adam
>
> ï¿½
>
> ï¿½
>
> ï¿½
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

2016-11-01 Thread Rory Conaway

I’ve got Mimosa Networks A5s with 50 users running about 14% utilization so 100 
users shouldn’t be a big problem.  We have an A5c going up tomorrow that should 
be pushing the 100 in the next 60 days.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 7:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Cambium will never lower SM price until a competitor brings another solution to 
market that you could also load 100subs on and not have the thing choke. 
Hopefully Airfiber PTMP will be that. Also what I don't understand about 
Medusa, since it has a bunch of smaller sectors inside of it,, is the sectors 
inside of it running ABABABAB frequency re-use? Why is the SM's not getting 
interference from the adjacent array if they are all operating on same 20mhz 
frequency?

On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 9:09 PM, George Skorup 
<geo...@cbcast.com<mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
Update all SMs on the sector to 15.0.0.1. Hang 450m. Shut off 450 sector and 
turn 450m on. Collect stats and share. :)

Don't have high expectations if you have a high concentration of SMs in one 
direction. But you should really see a difference where they're fairly spread 
out over 60-90 degrees. Remember it's 7x 13-degree beams and tweaking the 
azimuth just a little bit may help balance things out.
On 11/1/2016 1:58 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote:
That is 100% why I want to use it.ï¿½ We have an overloaded AP and no new 
frequency.ï¿½ A 3x performance boost will solve the problem.ï¿½ I also hope the 
17 degree beams will reduce interference seen by the AP.
ï¿½
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
ï¿½
The data that Matt showed us at HQ a few weeks ago where an operator (not in 
the US) with over 100 SMs! on a single 450 sector proved that a performance 
boost of 3-3.5x is possible simply by swapping to a 450m sector. And that's 
still using only that single 20MHz channel in 90 degrees. They created this 
thing for a reason. And that right there is it. Nuckin futs.
On 11/1/2016 9:17 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Rise Broadband
?
ï¿½
From: Matt Mangriotis
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:08 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
ï¿½
I will say that we have a [very large] customer that will remain nameless, 
which has ~1100 active customers across more than 12 sectors of 450m.ï¿½ They 
are very pleased with the performance.
ï¿½
There are several others that are putting up their first sectors now as 
well.ï¿½ If you run into issues, we are escalating support cases to our team 
that has a lot of experience in deploying this model.
ï¿½
Matt
ï¿½
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 8:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
ï¿½
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_and_Gaston#/media/File:Alphonsegaston.jpg<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAlphonse_and_Gaston%23%2Fmedia%2FFile%3AAlphonsegaston.jpg=01%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Cbe305b2cb945442e3cad08d401f726bf%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C1=KVm6mRWBg3SiYCVBHxQYPrJliSwuQdAP2VPMOG5mGJo%3D=0>
ï¿½
ï¿½
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 7:39 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
ï¿½
Our first 450m should arrive this week.ï¿½ We plan to replace an existing 450 
AP that has 66 customers for our first deployment.
ï¿½
However, I do not want to do this until I have heard that there are some 
installed and working.
ï¿½
Does anyone have 450m up and running.ï¿½ Would you please share your 
experiences and results.
ï¿½
Thanks
ï¿½
Adam
ï¿½
ï¿½
ï¿½

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Cambium will never lower SM price until a competitor brings another
solution to market that you could also load 100subs on and not have the
thing choke. Hopefully Airfiber PTMP will be that. Also what I don't
understand about Medusa, since it has a bunch of smaller sectors inside of
it,, is the sectors inside of it running ABABABAB frequency re-use? Why is
the SM's not getting interference from the adjacent array if they are all
operating on same 20mhz frequency?

On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 9:09 PM, George Skorup <geo...@cbcast.com> wrote:

> Update all SMs on the sector to 15.0.0.1. Hang 450m. Shut off 450 sector
> and turn 450m on. Collect stats and share. :)
>
> Don't have high expectations if you have a high concentration of SMs in
> one direction. But you should really see a difference where they're fairly
> spread out over 60-90 degrees. Remember it's 7x 13-degree beams and
> tweaking the azimuth just a little bit may help balance things out.
>
> On 11/1/2016 1:58 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote:
>
> That is 100% why I want to use it.ï¿½ We have an overloaded AP and no new
> frequency.ï¿½ A 3x performance boost will solve the problem.ï¿½ I also hope
> the 17 degree beams will reduce interference seen by the AP.
>
> ï¿½
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *George Skorup
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:30 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>
> ï¿½
>
> The data that Matt showed us at HQ a few weeks ago where an operator (not
> in the US) with over 100 SMs! on a single 450 sector proved that a
> performance boost of 3-3.5x is possible simply by swapping to a 450m
> sector. And that's still using only that single 20MHz channel in 90
> degrees. They created this thing for a reason. And that right there is it.
> Nuckin futs.
>
> On 11/1/2016 9:17 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Rise Broadband
>
> ?
>
> ï¿½
>
> *From:* Matt Mangriotis
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:08 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>
> ï¿½
>
> I will say that we have a [very large] customer that will remain nameless,
> which has ~1100 active customers across more than 12 sectors of 450m.ï¿½
> They are very pleased with the performance.
>
> ï¿½
>
> There are several others that are putting up their first sectors now as
> well.ï¿½ If you run into issues, we are escalating support cases to our
> team that has a lot of experience in deploying this model.
>
> ï¿½
>
> Matt
>
> ï¿½
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 8:34 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>
> ï¿½
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_and_Gaston#/media/
> File:Alphonsegaston.jpg
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAlphonse_and_Gaston%23%2Fmedia%2FFile%3AAlphonsegaston.jpg=01%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Cbe305b2cb945442e3cad08d401f726bf%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C1=KVm6mRWBg3SiYCVBHxQYPrJliSwuQdAP2VPMOG5mGJo%3D=0>
>
> ï¿½
>
> ï¿½
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *SmarterBroadband
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 7:39 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>
> ï¿½
>
> Our first 450m should arrive this week.ï¿½ We plan to replace an existing
> 450 AP that has 66 customers for our first deployment.
>
> ï¿½
>
> However, I do not want to do this until I have heard that there are some
> installed and working.
>
> ï¿½
>
> Does anyone have 450m up and running.ï¿½ Would you please share your
> experiences and results.
>
> ï¿½
>
> Thanks
>
> ï¿½
>
> Adam
>
> ï¿½
>
> ï¿½
>
> ï¿½
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

2016-11-01 Thread George Skorup

Update all SMs on the sector to 15.0.0.1. Hang 450m. Shut off 450 sector
and turn 450m on. Collect stats and share. :)

Don't have high expectations if you have a high concentration of SMs in
one direction. But you should really see a difference where they're
fairly spread out over 60-90 degrees. Remember it's 7x 13-degree beams
and tweaking the azimuth just a little bit may help balance things out.

On 11/1/2016 1:58 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote:

That is 100% why I want to use it. We have an overloaded AP and no
new frequency. A 3x performance boost will solve the problem. I also
hope the 17 degree beams will reduce interference seen by the AP.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *George Skorup
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:30 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

The data that Matt showed us at HQ a few weeks ago where an operator
(not in the US) with over 100 SMs! on a single 450 sector proved that
a performance boost of 3-3.5x is possible simply by swapping to a 450m
sector. And that's still using only that single 20MHz channel in 90
degrees. They created this thing for a reason. And that right there is
it. Nuckin futs.

On 11/1/2016 9:17 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Rise Broadband

ï¿½

*From:*Matt Mangriotis

*Sent:*Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:08 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

ï¿½

I will say that we have a [very large] customer that will remain
nameless, which has ~1100 active customers across more than 12
sectors of 450m.ï¿½ They are very pleased with the performance.

ï¿½

There are several others that are putting up their first sectors
now as well.ï¿½ If you run into issues, we are escalating support
cases to our team that has a lot of experience in deploying this
model.

ï¿½

Matt

ï¿½

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 8:34 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

ï¿½

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_and_Gaston#/media/File:Alphonsegaston.jpg

<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAlphonse_and_Gaston%23%2Fmedia%2FFile%3AAlphonsegaston.jpg=01%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Cbe305b2cb945442e3cad08d401f726bf%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C1=KVm6mRWBg3SiYCVBHxQYPrJliSwuQdAP2VPMOG5mGJo%3D=0>

ï¿½

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*SmarterBroadband
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 7:39 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

ï¿½

Our first 450m should arrive this week.ï¿½ We plan to replace an
existing 450 AP that has 66 customers for our first deployment.

ï¿½

However, I do not want to do this until I have heard that there
are some installed and working.

ï¿½

Does anyone have 450m up and running.ï¿½ Would you please share
your experiences and results.

ï¿½

Thanks

ï¿½

Adam

ï¿½

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

2016-11-01 Thread SmarterBroadband

Sorry typo

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wright
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 12:25 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Arent the beams 7 degrees?

Chris Wright

Network Administrator

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 11:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

That is 100% why I want to use it.  We have an overloaded AP and no new
frequency.  A 3x performance boost will solve the problem.  I also hope the
17 degree beams will reduce interference seen by the AP.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

The data that Matt showed us at HQ a few weeks ago where an operator (not in
the US) with over 100 SMs! on a single 450 sector proved that a performance
boost of 3-3.5x is possible simply by swapping to a 450m sector. And that's
still using only that single 20MHz channel in 90 degrees. They created this
thing for a reason. And that right there is it. Nuckin futs.

On 11/1/2016 9:17 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Rise Broadband

?

ï¿½

From: Matt Mangriotis 

Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:08 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

ï¿½

I will say that we have a [very large] customer that will remain nameless,
which has ~1100 active customers across more than 12 sectors of 450m.ï¿½
They are very pleased with the performance.

ï¿½

There are several others that are putting up their first sectors now as
well.ï¿½ If you run into issues, we are escalating support cases to our team
that has a lot of experience in deploying this model.

ï¿½

Matt

ï¿½

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 8:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

ï¿½

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_and_Gaston#/media/File:Alphonsegaston
.jpg
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikiped
ia.org%2Fwiki%2FAlphonse_and_Gaston%23%2Fmedia%2FFile%3AAlphonsegaston.jpg
ata=01%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Cbe305b2cb945442e3cad08
d401f726bf%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C1=KVm6mRWBg3SiYCVBHxQY
PrJliSwuQdAP2VPMOG5mGJo%3D=0> 

ï¿½

ï¿½

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 7:39 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

ï¿½

Our first 450m should arrive this week.ï¿½ We plan to replace an existing
450 AP that has 66 customers for our first deployment. 

ï¿½

However, I do not want to do this until I have heard that there are some
installed and working.

ï¿½

Does anyone have 450m up and running.ï¿½ Would you please share your
experiences and results.

ï¿½

Thanks

ï¿½

Adam

ï¿½

ï¿½

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

2016-11-01 Thread Chris Wright

Aren't the beams 7 degrees?

Chris Wright
Network Administrator

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 11:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

That is 100% why I want to use it.  We have an overloaded AP and no new 
frequency.  A 3x performance boost will solve the problem.  I also hope the 17 
degree beams will reduce interference seen by the AP.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

The data that Matt showed us at HQ a few weeks ago where an operator (not in 
the US) with over 100 SMs! on a single 450 sector proved that a performance 
boost of 3-3.5x is possible simply by swapping to a 450m sector. And that's 
still using only that single 20MHz channel in 90 degrees. They created this 
thing for a reason. And that right there is it. Nuckin futs.
On 11/1/2016 9:17 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Rise Broadband
?
ï¿½
From: Matt Mangriotis
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:08 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
ï¿½
I will say that we have a [very large] customer that will remain nameless, 
which has ~1100 active customers across more than 12 sectors of 450m.ï¿½ They 
are very pleased with the performance.
ï¿½
There are several others that are putting up their first sectors now as 
well.ï¿½ If you run into issues, we are escalating support cases to our team 
that has a lot of experience in deploying this model.
ï¿½
Matt
ï¿½
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 8:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
ï¿½
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_and_Gaston#/media/File:Alphonsegaston.jpg<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAlphonse_and_Gaston%23%2Fmedia%2FFile%3AAlphonsegaston.jpg=01%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Cbe305b2cb945442e3cad08d401f726bf%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C1=KVm6mRWBg3SiYCVBHxQYPrJliSwuQdAP2VPMOG5mGJo%3D=0>
ï¿½
ï¿½
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 7:39 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
ï¿½
Our first 450m should arrive this week.ï¿½ We plan to replace an existing 450 
AP that has 66 customers for our first deployment.
ï¿½
However, I do not want to do this until I have heard that there are some 
installed and working.
ï¿½
Does anyone have 450m up and running.ï¿½ Would you please share your 
experiences and results.
ï¿½
Thanks
ï¿½
Adam
ï¿½
ï¿½

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

2016-11-01 Thread SmarterBroadband

Exactly. 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 6:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_and_Gaston#/media/File:Alphonsegaston
.jpg

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 7:39 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Our first 450m should arrive this week.  We plan to replace an existing 450
AP that has 66 customers for our first deployment. 

However, I do not want to do this until I have heard that there are some
installed and working.

Does anyone have 450m up and running.  Would you please share your
experiences and results.

Thanks

Adam

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

The other thing I worry about is 14.1.2 was so stable, but here we go with 
15.x.  Can someone else go first?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Ray
Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2016 1:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Now get the SM costs down so it's worthwhile to buy this thing

Sent while mobile

On Nov 1, 2016, at 8:30 AM, George Skorup <geo...@cbcast.com 
<mailto:geo...@cbcast.com> > wrote:

The data that Matt showed us at HQ a few weeks ago where an operator (not in 
the US) with over 100 SMs! on a single 450 sector proved that a performance 
boost of 3-3.5x is possible simply by swapping to a 450m sector. And that's 
still using only that single 20MHz channel in 90 degrees. They created this 
thing for a reason. And that right there is it. Nuckin futs.

On 11/1/2016 9:17 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Rise Broadband

?

ï¿½

From: Matt Mangriotis 

Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:08 AM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

ï¿½

I will say that we have a [very large] customer that will remain nameless, 
which has ~1100 active customers across more than 12 sectors of 450m.ï¿½ They 
are very pleased with the performance.

ï¿½

There are several others that are putting up their first sectors now as 
well.ï¿½ If you run into issues, we are escalating support cases to our team 
that has a lot of experience in deploying this model.

ï¿½

Matt

ï¿½

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 8:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

ï¿½

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_and_Gaston#/media/File:Alphonsegaston.jpg

<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAlphonse_and_Gaston%23%2Fmedia%2FFile%3AAlphonsegaston.jpg=01%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Cbe305b2cb945442e3cad08d401f726bf%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C1=KVm6mRWBg3SiYCVBHxQYPrJliSwuQdAP2VPMOG5mGJo%3D=0>

ï¿½

ï¿½

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 7:39 PM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

ï¿½

Our first 450m should arrive this week.ï¿½ We plan to replace an existing 450 
AP that has 66 customers for our first deployment. 

ï¿½

However, I do not want to do this until I have heard that there are some 
installed and working.

ï¿½

Does anyone have 450m up and running.ï¿½ Would you please share your 
experiences and results.

ï¿½

Thanks

ï¿½

Adam

ï¿½

ï¿½

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

2016-11-01 Thread Ryan Ray

Now get the SM costs down so it's worthwhile to buy this thing


Sent while mobile


> On Nov 1, 2016, at 8:30 AM, George Skorup <geo...@cbcast.com> wrote:
> 
> The data that Matt showed us at HQ a few weeks ago where an operator (not in 
> the US) with over 100 SMs! on a single 450 sector proved that a performance 
> boost of 3-3.5x is possible simply by swapping to a 450m sector. And that's 
> still using only that single 20MHz channel in 90 degrees. They created this 
> thing for a reason. And that right there is it. Nuckin futs.
> 
>> On 11/1/2016 9:17 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>> Rise Broadband
>> ?
>> ï¿½
>> From: Matt Mangriotis
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:08 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>> ï¿½
>> I will say that we have a [very large] customer that will remain nameless, 
>> which has ~1100 active customers across more than 12 sectors of 450m.ï¿½ 
>> They are very pleased with the performance.
>> ï¿½
>> There are several others that are putting up their first sectors now as 
>> well.ï¿½ If you run into issues, we are escalating support cases to our team 
>> that has a lot of experience in deploying this model.
>> ï¿½
>> Matt
>> ï¿½
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
>> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 8:34 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>> ï¿½
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_and_Gaston#/media/File:Alphonsegaston.jpg
>> ï¿½
>> ï¿½
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
>> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 7:39 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m
>> ï¿½
>> Our first 450m should arrive this week.ï¿½ We plan to replace an existing 
>> 450 AP that has 66 customers for our first deployment.
>> ï¿½
>> However, I do not want to do this until I have heard that there are some 
>> installed and working.
>> ï¿½
>> Does anyone have 450m up and running.ï¿½ Would you please share your 
>> experiences and results.
>> ï¿½
>> Thanks
>> ï¿½
>> Adam
>> ï¿½
>> ï¿½
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

2016-11-01 Thread George Skorup

The data that Matt showed us at HQ a few weeks ago where an operator
(not in the US) with over 100 SMs! on a single 450 sector proved that a
performance boost of 3-3.5x is possible simply by swapping to a 450m
sector. And that's still using only that single 20MHz channel in 90
degrees. They created this thing for a reason. And that right there is
it. Nuckin futs.

On 11/1/2016 9:17 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Rise Broadband
?
*From:* Matt Mangriotis
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:08 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

I will say that we have a [very large] customer that will remain
nameless, which has ~1100 active customers across more than 12 sectors
of 450m. They are very pleased with the performance.

There are several others that are putting up their first sectors now
as well. If you run into issues, we are escalating support cases to
our team that has a lot of experience in deploying this model.

Matt

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 8:34 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_and_Gaston#/media/File:Alphonsegaston.jpg
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAlphonse_and_Gaston%23%2Fmedia%2FFile%3AAlphonsegaston.jpg=01%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Cbe305b2cb945442e3cad08d401f726bf%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C1=KVm6mRWBg3SiYCVBHxQYPrJliSwuQdAP2VPMOG5mGJo%3D=0>

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *SmarterBroadband
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 7:39 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Our first 450m should arrive this week. We plan to replace an
existing 450 AP that has 66 customers for our first deployment.

However, I do not want to do this until I have heard that there are
some installed and working.

Does anyone have 450m up and running. Would you please share your
experiences and results.

Thanks

Adam

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

2016-11-01 Thread Chuck McCown

It was a snapchat...

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:28 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Isn't it kind of common knowledge now? I think I heard Anthony Wiener was 
tweeting about it.

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 11/1/2016 7:25 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  You were supposed to say that in your head, not out loud.

  ï¿½

  ï¿½

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2016 9:18 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

  ï¿½

  Rise Broadband

  ?

  ï¿½

  From: Matt Mangriotis 

  Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:08 AM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

  ï¿½

  I will say that we have a [very large] customer that will remain nameless, 
which has ~1100 active customers across more than 12 sectors of 450m.ï¿½ They 
are very pleased with the performance.

  ï¿½

  There are several others that are putting up their first sectors now as 
well.ï¿½ If you run into issues, we are escalating support cases to our team 
that has a lot of experience in deploying this model.

  ï¿½

  Matt

  ï¿½

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
  Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 8:34 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

  ï¿½

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_and_Gaston#/media/File:Alphonsegaston.jpg

  ï¿½

  ï¿½

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
  Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 7:39 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

  ï¿½

  Our first 450m should arrive this week.ï¿½ We plan to replace an existing 450 
AP that has 66 customers for our first deployment. 

  ï¿½

  However, I do not want to do this until I have heard that there are some 
installed and working.

  ï¿½

  Does anyone have 450m up and running.ï¿½ Would you please share your 
experiences and results.

  ï¿½

  Thanks

  ï¿½

  Adam

  ï¿½

  ï¿½

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Well, now youve ruined Cambiums marketing slogan for me:

http://www.cambiumnetworks.com/gomassive/

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2016 9:29 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

 

Isn't it kind of common knowledge now? I think I heard Anthony Wiener was
tweeting about it.

 

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
 

On 11/1/2016 7:25 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

You were supposed to say that in your head, not out loud.

ï¿½

ï¿½

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2016 9:18 AM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

ï¿½

Rise Broadband

?

ï¿½

From: Matt Mangriotis 

Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:08 AM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

ï¿½

I will say that we have a [very large] customer that will remain nameless,
which has ~1100 active customers across more than 12 sectors of 450m.ï¿½
They are very pleased with the performance.

ï¿½

There are several others that are putting up their first sectors now as
well.ï¿½ If you run into issues, we are escalating support cases to our team
that has a lot of experience in deploying this model.

ï¿½

Matt

ï¿½

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 8:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

ï¿½

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_and_Gaston#/media/File:Alphonsegaston
.jpg
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikiped
ia.org%2Fwiki%2FAlphonse_and_Gaston%23%2Fmedia%2FFile%3AAlphonsegaston.jpg
ata=01%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Cbe305b2cb945442e3cad08
d401f726bf%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C1=KVm6mRWBg3SiYCVBHxQY
PrJliSwuQdAP2VPMOG5mGJo%3D=0> 

ï¿½

ï¿½

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 7:39 PM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

ï¿½

Our first 450m should arrive this week.ï¿½ We plan to replace an existing
450 AP that has 66 customers for our first deployment. 

ï¿½

However, I do not want to do this until I have heard that there are some
installed and working.

ï¿½

Does anyone have 450m up and running.ï¿½ Would you please share your
experiences and results.

ï¿½

Thanks

ï¿½

Adam

ï¿½

ï¿½

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

2016-11-01 Thread Bill Prince

Isn't it kind of common knowledge now? I think I heard Anthony Wiener 
was tweeting about it.



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 11/1/2016 7:25 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


You were supposed to say that in your head, not out loud.

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 1, 2016 9:18 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Rise Broadband

?

*From:*Matt Mangriotis

*Sent:*Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:08 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

I will say that we have a [very large] customer that will remain 
nameless, which has ~1100 active customers across more than 12 sectors 
of 450m.  They are very pleased with the performance.


There are several others that are putting up their first sectors now 
as well.  If you run into issues, we are escalating support cases to 
our team that has a lot of experience in deploying this model.


Matt

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 8:34 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_and_Gaston#/media/File:Alphonsegaston.jpg 
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAlphonse_and_Gaston%23%2Fmedia%2FFile%3AAlphonsegaston.jpg=01%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Cbe305b2cb945442e3cad08d401f726bf%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C1=KVm6mRWBg3SiYCVBHxQYPrJliSwuQdAP2VPMOG5mGJo%3D=0>


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *SmarterBroadband
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 7:39 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Cambium 450m

Our first 450m should arrive this week.  We plan to replace an 
existing 450 AP that has 66 customers for our first deployment.


However, I do not want to do this until I have heard that there are 
some installed and working.


Does anyone have 450m up and running.  Would you please share your 
experiences and results.


Thanks

Adam

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m