Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Josh Reynolds]

Recent book came out about this called "Dear Reader"
https://www.amazon.com/Dear-Reader-Unauthorized-Autobiography-Jong/dp/1495283259

On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 8:13 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't fret about North Korea because I do believe their apparent
> craziness is a calculated move and they aren't actually stupid enough to
> start a shooting war.  It does not matter if they build a rocket that can
> reach the U.S., because if they ever used it the response would be
> catastrophic and they know it.  Political scientists think there's a cold
> rationality to NK (really DPRK's) behavior.  Antagonizing other countries
> keeps up the appearance that war is always imminent.  The external threat
> gives them a reason to maintain their status quo internally.
>
> The best case would be if they collapse on their own, and I imagine that's
> what everybody's been hoping for since the 1950's.  Worst case would be if
> they push too far and actually start something.  They would lose, but the
> death on both sides would be horrific.  Out of those options, I would just
> as soon we continue to let them be.  Maybe in the year 2050, someone in
> their administration will wonder where the war is that they've been
> stressing about for a century.  Maybe sooner than that someone will wonder
> if it's really worthwhile to starve their people to prop up their military.
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 9/5/2017 6:25:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...
>
> Saying there is a plan or strategy would be generous I think. It is
> difficult to tell. I do know that for most of my life we have been playing
> the same game with NK and they have been whooping is at it. Seems like
> every president both R and D have fallen for there same BS. I guess they
> think "as long as it all holds together until I get out of office it is ok".
>
> What I mess. The only thing I know is that the stakes are very high. China
> has no reason to help us. If it is bad for the US it is good for them.
>
> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017, 2:57 PM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
>> Nothing is going to happen against China.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Monday, September 4, 2017 10:56:34 AM
>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...
>>
>>
>> I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for North
>> Korea what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China? Will
>> we not be able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on products made
>> in China for our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti products and if i
>> can no longer get those my WISP operations would be severely crippled...
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Jaime Solorza]

Or rescind Ford's 1974 executive order

On Sep 5, 2017 7:14 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't fret about North Korea because I do believe their apparent
> craziness is a calculated move and they aren't actually stupid enough to
> start a shooting war.  It does not matter if they build a rocket that can
> reach the U.S., because if they ever used it the response would be
> catastrophic and they know it.  Political scientists think there's a cold
> rationality to NK (really DPRK's) behavior.  Antagonizing other countries
> keeps up the appearance that war is always imminent.  The external threat
> gives them a reason to maintain their status quo internally.
>
> The best case would be if they collapse on their own, and I imagine that's
> what everybody's been hoping for since the 1950's.  Worst case would be if
> they push too far and actually start something.  They would lose, but the
> death on both sides would be horrific.  Out of those options, I would just
> as soon we continue to let them be.  Maybe in the year 2050, someone in
> their administration will wonder where the war is that they've been
> stressing about for a century.  Maybe sooner than that someone will wonder
> if it's really worthwhile to starve their people to prop up their military.
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 9/5/2017 6:25:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...
>
> Saying there is a plan or strategy would be generous I think. It is
> difficult to tell. I do know that for most of my life we have been playing
> the same game with NK and they have been whooping is at it. Seems like
> every president both R and D have fallen for there same BS. I guess they
> think "as long as it all holds together until I get out of office it is ok".
>
> What I mess. The only thing I know is that the stakes are very high. China
> has no reason to help us. If it is bad for the US it is good for them.
>
> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017, 2:57 PM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
>> Nothing is going to happen against China.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Monday, September 4, 2017 10:56:34 AM
>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...
>>
>>
>> I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for North
>> Korea what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China? Will
>> we not be able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on products made
>> in China for our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti products and if i
>> can no longer get those my WISP operations would be severely crippled...
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Adam Moffett]

I don't fret about North Korea because I do believe their apparent 
craziness is a calculated move and they aren't actually stupid enough to 
start a shooting war.  It does not matter if they build a rocket that 
can reach the U.S., because if they ever used it the response would be 
catastrophic and they know it.  Political scientists think there's a 
cold rationality to NK (really DPRK's) behavior.  Antagonizing other 
countries keeps up the appearance that war is always imminent.  The 
external threat gives them a reason to maintain their status quo 
internally.


The best case would be if they collapse on their own, and I imagine 
that's what everybody's been hoping for since the 1950's.  Worst case 
would be if they push too far and actually start something.  They would 
lose, but the death on both sides would be horrific.  Out of those 
options, I would just as soon we continue to let them be.  Maybe in the 
year 2050, someone in their administration will wonder where the war is 
that they've been stressing about for a century.  Maybe sooner than that 
someone will wonder if it's really worthwhile to starve their people to 
prop up their military.




-- Original Message --
From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 9/5/2017 6:25:02 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless 
radios...


Saying there is a plan or strategy would be generous I think. It is 
difficult to tell. I do know that for most of my life we have been 
playing the same game with NK and they have been whooping is at it. 
Seems like every president both R and D have fallen for there same BS. 
I guess they think "as long as it all holds together until I get out of 
office it is ok".


What I mess. The only thing I know is that the stakes are very high. 
China has no reason to help us. If it is bad for the US it is good for 
them.



On Mon, Sep 4, 2017, 2:57 PM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

Nothing is going to happen against China.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>

Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>

The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 10:56:34 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...


I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for North 
Korea what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China? 
Will we not be able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on 
products made in China for our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti 
products and if i can no longer get those my WISP operations would be 
severely crippled...

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Steve Jones]

My mother in law (sic) had cancer a decade ago, about a year ago she
started losing weight. Alot of whispers, alot of "we shoulds", alot of
plans. When we found out she had gotten to the point she had quit taking
her arthitis meds because it had gotten to the point it made her too sick
and she was "borrowing" tramadol for the pain, the old lady confronted her
and laid down the law, made the appointment and went with her to make sure
she went.
The extreme pain is the multiple rib and pelvis fractures from the bone
cancer.

This is a great analogy for the current nk situation, everybody ignored it,
knew it was bad and getting worse, but nobody actually took any real action
besides some tough talk and no followup here and there. Now this doctor,
who i think is a hack, is the one who has to deal with a mess that almost
every avenue will deal alot of collateral damage. At the end of the day,
the doctor is wholey responsible for the course of care, but the
malignacies progression is outside his control. Its technichally somebody
elses fault, but does not change the fact its got to be dealth with today.
And none of the previous methods were effective, so those paths are
pointless

On Sep 5, 2017 5:59 PM, "Jaime Solorza" <losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:

> As a father, son and brother to combat veterans, I pray for peace.  Every
> day is a challenge for my son and brother...my dad was sniper in Korea...he
> fought ghost in his dreams until his death in 2003.
> I wish we had a better man in charge, all bullshit aside.. don't care
> about party...
>
> On Sep 5, 2017 4:44 PM, "Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The strategy is similar to the stick of dynamite on a pile of more
>> dynamite thats around the support colums under an old folks home in a room
>> filled with tripwires that will shut off the oxygen to half the residents
>> the minute you go in.
>> There is no real strategy to be had, just the inevitable reaction.
>>
>> Last estimate i read was over 1.2 million casualties in the first 5
>> minutes of a military action ala artillery raining down in seoul.
>>
>> The "overwhelming" military response to an aggression from them (the only
>> way china will stay out of it) equates to a mass genocide on our part. This
>> isnt about our normal judicious delivery of freedom rain, this is an
>> advesary that is fully prepared to be extincted.
>>
>> The end of the day its going to be alot about prevailing winds and which
>> nations we want to rain radioactive material on if our missile defense
>> systems are successful.
>>
>> We have a chunk of texas in shambles, a territory about to be decimated
>> and another state in the path. Our west is on fire and our nation is on the
>> verge of a civil war. We just recommitted to a middle east conflict. There
>> really is no better time for the hermit kingdom to get froggy.
>>
>> There really is no way to have a full strategy in play for escalation.
>>
>> But, we have mothballed factories all over this country just itching for
>> a retooling. Radio costs are going to burp, but stabilize.
>>
>> The bad thing i could see happening from the production coming back
>> stateside is a trend back to proprietary everything
>>
>> On Sep 5, 2017 5:25 PM, "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Saying there is a plan or strategy would be generous I think. It is
>>> difficult to tell. I do know that for most of my life we have been playing
>>> the same game with NK and they have been whooping is at it. Seems like
>>> every president both R and D have fallen for there same BS. I guess they
>>> think "as long as it all holds together until I get out of office it is ok".
>>>
>>> What I mess. The only thing I know is that the stakes are very high.
>>> China has no reason to help us. If it is bad for the US it is good for
>>> them.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017, 2:57 PM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nothing is going to happen against China.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>> <https://www.faceb

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Jaime Solorza]

As a father, son and brother to combat veterans, I pray for peace.  Every
day is a challenge for my son and brother...my dad was sniper in Korea...he
fought ghost in his dreams until his death in 2003.
I wish we had a better man in charge, all bullshit aside.. don't care about
party...

On Sep 5, 2017 4:44 PM, "Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The strategy is similar to the stick of dynamite on a pile of more
> dynamite thats around the support colums under an old folks home in a room
> filled with tripwires that will shut off the oxygen to half the residents
> the minute you go in.
> There is no real strategy to be had, just the inevitable reaction.
>
> Last estimate i read was over 1.2 million casualties in the first 5
> minutes of a military action ala artillery raining down in seoul.
>
> The "overwhelming" military response to an aggression from them (the only
> way china will stay out of it) equates to a mass genocide on our part. This
> isnt about our normal judicious delivery of freedom rain, this is an
> advesary that is fully prepared to be extincted.
>
> The end of the day its going to be alot about prevailing winds and which
> nations we want to rain radioactive material on if our missile defense
> systems are successful.
>
> We have a chunk of texas in shambles, a territory about to be decimated
> and another state in the path. Our west is on fire and our nation is on the
> verge of a civil war. We just recommitted to a middle east conflict. There
> really is no better time for the hermit kingdom to get froggy.
>
> There really is no way to have a full strategy in play for escalation.
>
> But, we have mothballed factories all over this country just itching for a
> retooling. Radio costs are going to burp, but stabilize.
>
> The bad thing i could see happening from the production coming back
> stateside is a trend back to proprietary everything
>
> On Sep 5, 2017 5:25 PM, "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Saying there is a plan or strategy would be generous I think. It is
>> difficult to tell. I do know that for most of my life we have been playing
>> the same game with NK and they have been whooping is at it. Seems like
>> every president both R and D have fallen for there same BS. I guess they
>> think "as long as it all holds together until I get out of office it is ok".
>>
>> What I mess. The only thing I know is that the stakes are very high.
>> China has no reason to help us. If it is bad for the US it is good for
>> them.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017, 2:57 PM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Nothing is going to happen against China.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Monday, September 4, 2017 10:56:34 AM
>>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for North
>>> Korea what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China? Will
>>> we not be able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on products made
>>> in China for our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti products and if i
>>> can no longer get those my WISP operations would be severely crippled...
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Steve Jones]

The strategy is similar to the stick of dynamite on a pile of more dynamite
thats around the support colums under an old folks home in a room filled
with tripwires that will shut off the oxygen to half the residents the
minute you go in.
There is no real strategy to be had, just the inevitable reaction.

Last estimate i read was over 1.2 million casualties in the first 5 minutes
of a military action ala artillery raining down in seoul.

The "overwhelming" military response to an aggression from them (the only
way china will stay out of it) equates to a mass genocide on our part. This
isnt about our normal judicious delivery of freedom rain, this is an
advesary that is fully prepared to be extincted.

The end of the day its going to be alot about prevailing winds and which
nations we want to rain radioactive material on if our missile defense
systems are successful.

We have a chunk of texas in shambles, a territory about to be decimated and
another state in the path. Our west is on fire and our nation is on the
verge of a civil war. We just recommitted to a middle east conflict. There
really is no better time for the hermit kingdom to get froggy.

There really is no way to have a full strategy in play for escalation.

But, we have mothballed factories all over this country just itching for a
retooling. Radio costs are going to burp, but stabilize.

The bad thing i could see happening from the production coming back
stateside is a trend back to proprietary everything

On Sep 5, 2017 5:25 PM, "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Saying there is a plan or strategy would be generous I think. It is
> difficult to tell. I do know that for most of my life we have been playing
> the same game with NK and they have been whooping is at it. Seems like
> every president both R and D have fallen for there same BS. I guess they
> think "as long as it all holds together until I get out of office it is ok".
>
> What I mess. The only thing I know is that the stakes are very high. China
> has no reason to help us. If it is bad for the US it is good for them.
>
> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017, 2:57 PM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
>> Nothing is going to happen against China.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Monday, September 4, 2017 10:56:34 AM
>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...
>>
>>
>> I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for North
>> Korea what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China? Will
>> we not be able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on products made
>> in China for our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti products and if i
>> can no longer get those my WISP operations would be severely crippled...
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Bill Prince]

They had a guy on NPR talking about the current "strategy" (or whatever you
want to call it) as the 3rd least desirable option. First least desirable
is a failed state. Second least desirable is a unified Korea.

I guess the rest of us can think of a few more.

-bp

On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 3:28 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

> No, China is tired of NK acting like a drunk teenager, but hasn't learned
> how to be a parent yet.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------
> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Tuesday, September 5, 2017 5:25:02 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless
> radios...
>
> Saying there is a plan or strategy would be generous I think. It is
> difficult to tell. I do know that for most of my life we have been playing
> the same game with NK and they have been whooping is at it. Seems like
> every president both R and D have fallen for there same BS. I guess they
> think "as long as it all holds together until I get out of office it is ok".
>
> What I mess. The only thing I know is that the stakes are very high. China
> has no reason to help us. If it is bad for the US it is good for them.
>
> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017, 2:57 PM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
>> Nothing is going to happen against China.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Monday, September 4, 2017 10:56:34 AM
>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...
>>
>>
>> I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for North
>> Korea what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China? Will
>> we not be able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on products made
>> in China for our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti products and if i
>> can no longer get those my WISP operations would be severely crippled...
>>
>
>


-- 
--
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Mike Hammett]

No, China is tired of NK acting like a drunk teenager, but hasn't learned how 
to be a parent yet. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2017 5:25:02 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios... 


Saying there is a plan or strategy would be generous I think. It is difficult 
to tell. I do know that for most of my life we have been playing the same game 
with NK and they have been whooping is at it. Seems like every president both R 
and D have fallen for there same BS. I guess they think "as long as it all 
holds together until I get out of office it is ok". 
What I mess. The only thing I know is that the stakes are very high. China has 
no reason to help us. If it is bad for the US it is good for them. 


On Mon, Sep 4, 2017, 2:57 PM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Nothing is going to happen against China. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Kurt Fankhauser" < lists.wavel...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 10:56:34 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios... 





I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for North Korea 
what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China? Will we not be 
able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on products made in China for 
our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti products and if i can no longer get 
those my WISP operations would be severely crippled... 

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Lewis Bergman]

Saying there is a plan or strategy would be generous I think. It is
difficult to tell. I do know that for most of my life we have been playing
the same game with NK and they have been whooping is at it. Seems like
every president both R and D have fallen for there same BS. I guess they
think "as long as it all holds together until I get out of office it is ok".

What I mess. The only thing I know is that the stakes are very high. China
has no reason to help us. If it is bad for the US it is good for them.

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017, 2:57 PM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

> Nothing is going to happen against China.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------
> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, September 4, 2017 10:56:34 AM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...
>
>
> I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for North
> Korea what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China? Will
> we not be able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on products made
> in China for our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti products and if i
> can no longer get those my WISP operations would be severely crippled...
>

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Mike Hammett]

Nothing is going to happen against China. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 10:56:34 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios... 


I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for North Korea 
what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China? Will we not be 
able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on products made in China for 
our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti products and if i can no longer get 
those my WISP operations would be severely crippled... 

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[chuck]

I don’t think they are picking up what we are laying down

We will just lay it between the lines here and see if the light bulbs start to 
go on...

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 11:21 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

Any notice how Lentish I have been?  I pray for Divine Intervention.. maybe we 
should return FRB call that we received August 15have a nice day!

On Sep 4, 2017 11:00 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  Lets invoke Lent...

  From: Steve Jones 
  Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 10:44 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

  Foxconn is coming here (IPhone)
  Taiwan is hoping this goes down, their sovereignty is on the table
  Philippines and Malaysia used to produce, probably a lot of shuttered 
factories
  we haven't closed the door on cuba yet
  There is no shortage of slave labor nations, china knows this.
  When you rely on the spoils of slaver and servitude such as we do, its best 
to spread the risk around, and that's what we are poised to do with this. It 
will hurt in the wallet for a time, but in the end, we would be better, 
critical components will make their way back to silicon valley, the rest of the 
stuff will spread out. 

  We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this. 




  On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:

The short version of this, is that for the first time since April
30th, 1975 (end of Vietnam War) the American people might actually
realize we are at war. They've largely been excluded from that fact
for almost 17 years now. This however, would be a much more
conventional battle. We are REALLY good at those, or at least we were
at one time.

The alternative is that North Korean continues their program to
increase their range, accuracy, explosive potential, and eventually a
multi-warhead (MIRV) situation. There have been some links in the past
between NK and Iran, so if NK ends up being successful, Iran would
likely be quick to follow.

None of this is any good.

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Kurt Fankhauser

<lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for North 
Korea
> what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China? Will we 
not
> be able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on products made in
> China for our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti products and if i can
> no longer get those my WISP operations would be severely crippled...

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Jon Langeler]

Trump is just the 'signature', the military is the planner. 

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Sep 4, 2017, at 11:56 AM, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:
> 
> I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for North Korea 
> what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China? Will we not 
> be able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on products made in China 
> for our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti products and if i can no 
> longer get those my WISP operations would be severely crippled...

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Robert Andrews]

It's also Putin's game of choice...  We have a government that is so 
wrapped up in it's own corruption that we can't focus on keeping pace 
with our competitors...


On 09/04/2017 10:30 AM, Rory Conaway wrote:

Good point.  It has distracted us from their other expansionism.

Rory

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 10:28 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

That sounds like the "checkers defense"   I think this is more chess.
Keep us worried about nukes in N. Korea and we won't worry about movements in 
the south china sea...

On 09/04/2017 10:21 AM, Rory Conaway wrote:

There is no way China let's North Korea affect their economy.  They will take 
Kim out long before that happens.

The only reason the Chinese Communist Party stays in power is because of its 
economy.  And that control only works if growth is at 7% or more.  If that 
growth stagnates or their economy gets worse, their power erodes quickly.

The Chinese like having North Korea as a buffer on their border.  They know if 
there is a war, South Korea will take it over and they lose that buffer.  And 
if there is a war, they are going to be blamed and the U.S. is going to be far 
more than just pissed off over this.  Given their 2 choices, I say they take 
Kim out before that happens.

Rory

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 10:03 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...


We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this.


No, that's folly.

It's economic M.A.D. It would crash both the US and Chinese economies... would 
also impact Taiwan / HK.

As far as tech stuff, we'd be fucked for a few years. China has 85-95% of the 
world's rare earth mining capacity used in things we use every day, from 
watches, phones, cars, drones, military equipment, medical equipment, things 
NASA depends on, etc. They have roughly 1/3rd of the world's rare earth 
deposits, but there is no production really spun up anywhere else. We have a 
place in California, and friends in Australia, but those facilities are closed 
due to the low Chinese prices.

If you thought the crashes of 2000/2008 were bad, imagine 25-35% unemployment 
that would largely not be soaked up by newly opened US facilities due to the 
cost of manufacturing here.

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

Foxconn is coming here (IPhone)
Taiwan is hoping this goes down, their sovereignty is on the table
Philippines and Malaysia used to produce, probably a lot of shuttered
factories we haven't closed the door on cuba yet There is no shortage
of slave labor nations, china knows this.
When you rely on the spoils of slaver and servitude such as we do,
its best to spread the risk around, and that's what we are poised to
do with this. It will hurt in the wallet for a time, but in the end,
we would be better, critical components will make their way back to
silicon valley, the rest of the stuff will spread out.

We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this.




On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:


The short version of this, is that for the first time since April
30th, 1975 (end of Vietnam War) the American people might actually
realize we are at war. They've largely been excluded from that fact
for almost 17 years now. This however, would be a much more
conventional battle. We are REALLY good at those, or at least we
were at one time.

The alternative is that North Korean continues their program to
increase their range, accuracy, explosive potential, and eventually
a multi-warhead (MIRV) situation. There have been some links in the
past between NK and Iran, so if NK ends up being successful, Iran
would likely be quick to follow.

None of this is any good.

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Kurt Fankhauser
<lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for
North Korea what does this mean for wireless radios that are made
in China? Will we not be able to import them anymore? We rely quite
a bit on products made in China for our everyday lives. I use alot
of Ubiquiti products and if i can no longer get those my WISP
operations would be severely crippled...

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Robert Andrews]

Inside of a mountain...  Far from fishing grounds.

On 09/04/2017 10:26 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

Anything that would affect the fishing economy there would be no-bueno.

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 12:25 PM, Robert Andrews  wrote:

There is an amazing rare-earth deposit that was supposed to be opened up in
Alaska, but alas, it was deemed to valuable a nature resource..   It could
have been opened up carefully, but instead might end up being opened up in a
mad rush.  guess what would have been better for the environment..

On 09/04/2017 10:03 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:


We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this.



No, that's folly.

It's economic M.A.D. It would crash both the US and Chinese
economies... would also impact Taiwan / HK.

As far as tech stuff, we'd be fucked for a few years. China has 85-95%
of the world's rare earth mining capacity used in things we use every
day, from watches, phones, cars, drones, military equipment, medical
equipment, things NASA depends on, etc. They have roughly 1/3rd of the
world's rare earth deposits, but there is no production really spun up
anywhere else. We have a place in California, and friends in
Australia, but those facilities are closed due to the low Chinese
prices.

If you thought the crashes of 2000/2008 were bad, imagine 25-35%
unemployment that would largely not be soaked up by newly opened US
facilities due to the cost of manufacturing here.

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Steve Jones 
wrote:


Foxconn is coming here (IPhone)
Taiwan is hoping this goes down, their sovereignty is on the table
Philippines and Malaysia used to produce, probably a lot of shuttered
factories
we haven't closed the door on cuba yet
There is no shortage of slave labor nations, china knows this.
When you rely on the spoils of slaver and servitude such as we do, its
best
to spread the risk around, and that's what we are poised to do with this.
It
will hurt in the wallet for a time, but in the end, we would be better,
critical components will make their way back to silicon valley, the rest
of
the stuff will spread out.

We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this.




On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Josh Reynolds 
wrote:



The short version of this, is that for the first time since April
30th, 1975 (end of Vietnam War) the American people might actually
realize we are at war. They've largely been excluded from that fact
for almost 17 years now. This however, would be a much more
conventional battle. We are REALLY good at those, or at least we were
at one time.

The alternative is that North Korean continues their program to
increase their range, accuracy, explosive potential, and eventually a
multi-warhead (MIRV) situation. There have been some links in the past
between NK and Iran, so if NK ends up being successful, Iran would
likely be quick to follow.

None of this is any good.

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Kurt Fankhauser
 wrote:


I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for North
Korea
what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China? Will we
not
be able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on products made in
China for our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti products and if i
can
no longer get those my WISP operations would be severely crippled...

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Rory Conaway]

Good point.  It has distracted us from their other expansionism. 

Rory

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 10:28 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

That sounds like the "checkers defense"   I think this is more chess. 
Keep us worried about nukes in N. Korea and we won't worry about movements in 
the south china sea...

On 09/04/2017 10:21 AM, Rory Conaway wrote:
> There is no way China let's North Korea affect their economy.  They will take 
> Kim out long before that happens.
> 
> The only reason the Chinese Communist Party stays in power is because of its 
> economy.  And that control only works if growth is at 7% or more.  If that 
> growth stagnates or their economy gets worse, their power erodes quickly.
> 
> The Chinese like having North Korea as a buffer on their border.  They know 
> if there is a war, South Korea will take it over and they lose that buffer.  
> And if there is a war, they are going to be blamed and the U.S. is going to 
> be far more than just pissed off over this.  Given their 2 choices, I say 
> they take Kim out before that happens.
> 
> Rory
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 10:03 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...
> 
>> We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this.
> 
> No, that's folly.
> 
> It's economic M.A.D. It would crash both the US and Chinese economies... 
> would also impact Taiwan / HK.
> 
> As far as tech stuff, we'd be fucked for a few years. China has 85-95% of the 
> world's rare earth mining capacity used in things we use every day, from 
> watches, phones, cars, drones, military equipment, medical equipment, things 
> NASA depends on, etc. They have roughly 1/3rd of the world's rare earth 
> deposits, but there is no production really spun up anywhere else. We have a 
> place in California, and friends in Australia, but those facilities are 
> closed due to the low Chinese prices.
> 
> If you thought the crashes of 2000/2008 were bad, imagine 25-35% unemployment 
> that would largely not be soaked up by newly opened US facilities due to the 
> cost of manufacturing here.
> 
> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>> Foxconn is coming here (IPhone)
>> Taiwan is hoping this goes down, their sovereignty is on the table 
>> Philippines and Malaysia used to produce, probably a lot of shuttered 
>> factories we haven't closed the door on cuba yet There is no shortage 
>> of slave labor nations, china knows this.
>> When you rely on the spoils of slaver and servitude such as we do, 
>> its best to spread the risk around, and that's what we are poised to 
>> do with this. It will hurt in the wallet for a time, but in the end, 
>> we would be better, critical components will make their way back to 
>> silicon valley, the rest of the stuff will spread out.
>>
>> We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The short version of this, is that for the first time since April 
>>> 30th, 1975 (end of Vietnam War) the American people might actually 
>>> realize we are at war. They've largely been excluded from that fact 
>>> for almost 17 years now. This however, would be a much more 
>>> conventional battle. We are REALLY good at those, or at least we 
>>> were at one time.
>>>
>>> The alternative is that North Korean continues their program to 
>>> increase their range, accuracy, explosive potential, and eventually 
>>> a multi-warhead (MIRV) situation. There have been some links in the 
>>> past between NK and Iran, so if NK ends up being successful, Iran 
>>> would likely be quick to follow.
>>>
>>> None of this is any good.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Kurt Fankhauser 
>>> <lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for 
>>>> North Korea what does this mean for wireless radios that are made 
>>>> in China? Will we not be able to import them anymore? We rely quite 
>>>> a bit on products made in China for our everyday lives. I use alot 
>>>> of Ubiquiti products and if i can no longer get those my WISP 
>>>> operations would be severely crippled...
>>
>>
> 

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Josh Reynolds]

They may be counting on letting the stakes raise enough until they can
say "Hey, we'll take care of this NK problem for you if you concede
the SC sea..."

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 12:27 PM, Robert Andrews <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
> That sounds like the "checkers defense"   I think this is more chess. Keep
> us worried about nukes in N. Korea and we won't worry about movements in the
> south china sea...
>
> On 09/04/2017 10:21 AM, Rory Conaway wrote:
>>
>> There is no way China let's North Korea affect their economy.  They will
>> take Kim out long before that happens.
>>
>> The only reason the Chinese Communist Party stays in power is because of
>> its economy.  And that control only works if growth is at 7% or more.  If
>> that growth stagnates or their economy gets worse, their power erodes
>> quickly.
>>
>> The Chinese like having North Korea as a buffer on their border.  They
>> know if there is a war, South Korea will take it over and they lose that
>> buffer.  And if there is a war, they are going to be blamed and the U.S. is
>> going to be far more than just pissed off over this.  Given their 2 choices,
>> I say they take Kim out before that happens.
>>
>> Rory
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
>> Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 10:03 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...
>>
>>> We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this.
>>
>>
>> No, that's folly.
>>
>> It's economic M.A.D. It would crash both the US and Chinese economies...
>> would also impact Taiwan / HK.
>>
>> As far as tech stuff, we'd be fucked for a few years. China has 85-95% of
>> the world's rare earth mining capacity used in things we use every day, from
>> watches, phones, cars, drones, military equipment, medical equipment, things
>> NASA depends on, etc. They have roughly 1/3rd of the world's rare earth
>> deposits, but there is no production really spun up anywhere else. We have a
>> place in California, and friends in Australia, but those facilities are
>> closed due to the low Chinese prices.
>>
>> If you thought the crashes of 2000/2008 were bad, imagine 25-35%
>> unemployment that would largely not be soaked up by newly opened US
>> facilities due to the cost of manufacturing here.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Foxconn is coming here (IPhone)
>>> Taiwan is hoping this goes down, their sovereignty is on the table
>>> Philippines and Malaysia used to produce, probably a lot of shuttered
>>> factories we haven't closed the door on cuba yet There is no shortage
>>> of slave labor nations, china knows this.
>>> When you rely on the spoils of slaver and servitude such as we do, its
>>> best to spread the risk around, and that's what we are poised to do
>>> with this. It will hurt in the wallet for a time, but in the end, we
>>> would be better, critical components will make their way back to
>>> silicon valley, the rest of the stuff will spread out.
>>>
>>> We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The short version of this, is that for the first time since April
>>>> 30th, 1975 (end of Vietnam War) the American people might actually
>>>> realize we are at war. They've largely been excluded from that fact
>>>> for almost 17 years now. This however, would be a much more
>>>> conventional battle. We are REALLY good at those, or at least we were
>>>> at one time.
>>>>
>>>> The alternative is that North Korean continues their program to
>>>> increase their range, accuracy, explosive potential, and eventually a
>>>> multi-warhead (MIRV) situation. There have been some links in the
>>>> past between NK and Iran, so if NK ends up being successful, Iran
>>>> would likely be quick to follow.
>>>>
>>>> None of this is any good.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Kurt Fankhauser
>>>> <lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for
>>>>> North Korea what does this mean for wireless radios that are made
>>>>> in China? Will we not be able to import them anymore? We rely quite
>>>>> a bit on products made in China for our everyday lives. I use alot
>>>>> of Ubiquiti products and if i can no longer get those my WISP
>>>>> operations would be severely crippled...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Robert Andrews]

That sounds like the "checkers defense"   I think this is more chess. 
Keep us worried about nukes in N. Korea and we won't worry about 
movements in the south china sea...


On 09/04/2017 10:21 AM, Rory Conaway wrote:

There is no way China let's North Korea affect their economy.  They will take 
Kim out long before that happens.

The only reason the Chinese Communist Party stays in power is because of its 
economy.  And that control only works if growth is at 7% or more.  If that 
growth stagnates or their economy gets worse, their power erodes quickly.

The Chinese like having North Korea as a buffer on their border.  They know if 
there is a war, South Korea will take it over and they lose that buffer.  And 
if there is a war, they are going to be blamed and the U.S. is going to be far 
more than just pissed off over this.  Given their 2 choices, I say they take 
Kim out before that happens.

Rory

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 10:03 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...


We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this.


No, that's folly.

It's economic M.A.D. It would crash both the US and Chinese economies... would 
also impact Taiwan / HK.

As far as tech stuff, we'd be fucked for a few years. China has 85-95% of the 
world's rare earth mining capacity used in things we use every day, from 
watches, phones, cars, drones, military equipment, medical equipment, things 
NASA depends on, etc. They have roughly 1/3rd of the world's rare earth 
deposits, but there is no production really spun up anywhere else. We have a 
place in California, and friends in Australia, but those facilities are closed 
due to the low Chinese prices.

If you thought the crashes of 2000/2008 were bad, imagine 25-35% unemployment 
that would largely not be soaked up by newly opened US facilities due to the 
cost of manufacturing here.

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

Foxconn is coming here (IPhone)
Taiwan is hoping this goes down, their sovereignty is on the table
Philippines and Malaysia used to produce, probably a lot of shuttered
factories we haven't closed the door on cuba yet There is no shortage
of slave labor nations, china knows this.
When you rely on the spoils of slaver and servitude such as we do, its
best to spread the risk around, and that's what we are poised to do
with this. It will hurt in the wallet for a time, but in the end, we
would be better, critical components will make their way back to
silicon valley, the rest of the stuff will spread out.

We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this.




On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:


The short version of this, is that for the first time since April
30th, 1975 (end of Vietnam War) the American people might actually
realize we are at war. They've largely been excluded from that fact
for almost 17 years now. This however, would be a much more
conventional battle. We are REALLY good at those, or at least we were
at one time.

The alternative is that North Korean continues their program to
increase their range, accuracy, explosive potential, and eventually a
multi-warhead (MIRV) situation. There have been some links in the
past between NK and Iran, so if NK ends up being successful, Iran
would likely be quick to follow.

None of this is any good.

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Kurt Fankhauser
<lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for
North Korea what does this mean for wireless radios that are made
in China? Will we not be able to import them anymore? We rely quite
a bit on products made in China for our everyday lives. I use alot
of Ubiquiti products and if i can no longer get those my WISP
operations would be severely crippled...

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Rory Conaway]

Yea, that is a critical issue.  We need to get that mine open.

Rory

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 10:23 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

Then we better get our act back together on rare-earth minerals..

On 09/04/2017 09:44 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
> Foxconn is coming here (IPhone)
> Taiwan is hoping this goes down, their sovereignty is on the table 
> Philippines and Malaysia used to produce, probably a lot of shuttered 
> factories we haven't closed the door on cuba yet There is no shortage 
> of slave labor nations, china knows this.
> When you rely on the spoils of slaver and servitude such as we do, its 
> best to spread the risk around, and that's what we are poised to do 
> with this. It will hurt in the wallet for a time, but in the end, we 
> would be better, critical components will make their way back to 
> silicon valley, the rest of the stuff will spread out.
> 
> We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com 
> <mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:
> 
> The short version of this, is that for the first time since April
> 30th, 1975 (end of Vietnam War) the American people might actually
> realize we are at war. They've largely been excluded from that fact
> for almost 17 years now. This however, would be a much more
> conventional battle. We are REALLY good at those, or at least we were
> at one time.
> 
> The alternative is that North Korean continues their program to
> increase their range, accuracy, explosive potential, and eventually a
> multi-warhead (MIRV) situation. There have been some links in the past
> between NK and Iran, so if NK ends up being successful, Iran would
> likely be quick to follow.
> 
> None of this is any good.
> 
> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Kurt Fankhauser
> <lists.wavel...@gmail.com <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>  > I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for
> North Korea
>  > what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China?
> Will we not
>  > be able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on products
> made in
>  > China for our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti products and
> if i can
>  > no longer get those my WISP operations would be severely crippled...
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Josh Reynolds]

Anything that would affect the fishing economy there would be no-bueno.

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 12:25 PM, Robert Andrews  wrote:
> There is an amazing rare-earth deposit that was supposed to be opened up in
> Alaska, but alas, it was deemed to valuable a nature resource..   It could
> have been opened up carefully, but instead might end up being opened up in a
> mad rush.  guess what would have been better for the environment..
>
> On 09/04/2017 10:03 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>>
>>> We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this.
>>
>>
>> No, that's folly.
>>
>> It's economic M.A.D. It would crash both the US and Chinese
>> economies... would also impact Taiwan / HK.
>>
>> As far as tech stuff, we'd be fucked for a few years. China has 85-95%
>> of the world's rare earth mining capacity used in things we use every
>> day, from watches, phones, cars, drones, military equipment, medical
>> equipment, things NASA depends on, etc. They have roughly 1/3rd of the
>> world's rare earth deposits, but there is no production really spun up
>> anywhere else. We have a place in California, and friends in
>> Australia, but those facilities are closed due to the low Chinese
>> prices.
>>
>> If you thought the crashes of 2000/2008 were bad, imagine 25-35%
>> unemployment that would largely not be soaked up by newly opened US
>> facilities due to the cost of manufacturing here.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Foxconn is coming here (IPhone)
>>> Taiwan is hoping this goes down, their sovereignty is on the table
>>> Philippines and Malaysia used to produce, probably a lot of shuttered
>>> factories
>>> we haven't closed the door on cuba yet
>>> There is no shortage of slave labor nations, china knows this.
>>> When you rely on the spoils of slaver and servitude such as we do, its
>>> best
>>> to spread the risk around, and that's what we are poised to do with this.
>>> It
>>> will hurt in the wallet for a time, but in the end, we would be better,
>>> critical components will make their way back to silicon valley, the rest
>>> of
>>> the stuff will spread out.
>>>
>>> We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Josh Reynolds 
>>> wrote:


 The short version of this, is that for the first time since April
 30th, 1975 (end of Vietnam War) the American people might actually
 realize we are at war. They've largely been excluded from that fact
 for almost 17 years now. This however, would be a much more
 conventional battle. We are REALLY good at those, or at least we were
 at one time.

 The alternative is that North Korean continues their program to
 increase their range, accuracy, explosive potential, and eventually a
 multi-warhead (MIRV) situation. There have been some links in the past
 between NK and Iran, so if NK ends up being successful, Iran would
 likely be quick to follow.

 None of this is any good.

 On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Kurt Fankhauser
  wrote:
>
> I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for North
> Korea
> what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China? Will we
> not
> be able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on products made in
> China for our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti products and if i
> can
> no longer get those my WISP operations would be severely crippled...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Robert Andrews]

There is an amazing rare-earth deposit that was supposed to be opened up 
in Alaska, but alas, it was deemed to valuable a nature resource..   It 
could have been opened up carefully, but instead might end up being 
opened up in a mad rush.  guess what would have been better for the 
environment..


On 09/04/2017 10:03 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this.


No, that's folly.

It's economic M.A.D. It would crash both the US and Chinese
economies... would also impact Taiwan / HK.

As far as tech stuff, we'd be fucked for a few years. China has 85-95%
of the world's rare earth mining capacity used in things we use every
day, from watches, phones, cars, drones, military equipment, medical
equipment, things NASA depends on, etc. They have roughly 1/3rd of the
world's rare earth deposits, but there is no production really spun up
anywhere else. We have a place in California, and friends in
Australia, but those facilities are closed due to the low Chinese
prices.

If you thought the crashes of 2000/2008 were bad, imagine 25-35%
unemployment that would largely not be soaked up by newly opened US
facilities due to the cost of manufacturing here.

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Steve Jones  wrote:

Foxconn is coming here (IPhone)
Taiwan is hoping this goes down, their sovereignty is on the table
Philippines and Malaysia used to produce, probably a lot of shuttered
factories
we haven't closed the door on cuba yet
There is no shortage of slave labor nations, china knows this.
When you rely on the spoils of slaver and servitude such as we do, its best
to spread the risk around, and that's what we are poised to do with this. It
will hurt in the wallet for a time, but in the end, we would be better,
critical components will make their way back to silicon valley, the rest of
the stuff will spread out.

We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this.




On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:


The short version of this, is that for the first time since April
30th, 1975 (end of Vietnam War) the American people might actually
realize we are at war. They've largely been excluded from that fact
for almost 17 years now. This however, would be a much more
conventional battle. We are REALLY good at those, or at least we were
at one time.

The alternative is that North Korean continues their program to
increase their range, accuracy, explosive potential, and eventually a
multi-warhead (MIRV) situation. There have been some links in the past
between NK and Iran, so if NK ends up being successful, Iran would
likely be quick to follow.

None of this is any good.

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Kurt Fankhauser
 wrote:

I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for North
Korea
what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China? Will we
not
be able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on products made in
China for our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti products and if i
can
no longer get those my WISP operations would be severely crippled...

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Robert Andrews]

Then we better get our act back together on rare-earth minerals..

On 09/04/2017 09:44 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

Foxconn is coming here (IPhone)
Taiwan is hoping this goes down, their sovereignty is on the table
Philippines and Malaysia used to produce, probably a lot of shuttered 
factories

we haven't closed the door on cuba yet
There is no shortage of slave labor nations, china knows this.
When you rely on the spoils of slaver and servitude such as we do, its 
best to spread the risk around, and that's what we are poised to do with 
this. It will hurt in the wallet for a time, but in the end, we would be 
better, critical components will make their way back to silicon valley, 
the rest of the stuff will spread out.


We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this.




On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Josh Reynolds > wrote:


The short version of this, is that for the first time since April
30th, 1975 (end of Vietnam War) the American people might actually
realize we are at war. They've largely been excluded from that fact
for almost 17 years now. This however, would be a much more
conventional battle. We are REALLY good at those, or at least we were
at one time.

The alternative is that North Korean continues their program to
increase their range, accuracy, explosive potential, and eventually a
multi-warhead (MIRV) situation. There have been some links in the past
between NK and Iran, so if NK ends up being successful, Iran would
likely be quick to follow.

None of this is any good.

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Kurt Fankhauser
> wrote:
 > I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for
North Korea
 > what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China?
Will we not
 > be able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on products
made in
 > China for our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti products and
if i can
 > no longer get those my WISP operations would be severely crippled...

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Rory Conaway]

There is no way China let's North Korea affect their economy.  They will take 
Kim out long before that happens.  

The only reason the Chinese Communist Party stays in power is because of its 
economy.  And that control only works if growth is at 7% or more.  If that 
growth stagnates or their economy gets worse, their power erodes quickly.  

The Chinese like having North Korea as a buffer on their border.  They know if 
there is a war, South Korea will take it over and they lose that buffer.  And 
if there is a war, they are going to be blamed and the U.S. is going to be far 
more than just pissed off over this.  Given their 2 choices, I say they take 
Kim out before that happens.

Rory

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 10:03 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

> We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this.

No, that's folly.

It's economic M.A.D. It would crash both the US and Chinese economies... would 
also impact Taiwan / HK.

As far as tech stuff, we'd be fucked for a few years. China has 85-95% of the 
world's rare earth mining capacity used in things we use every day, from 
watches, phones, cars, drones, military equipment, medical equipment, things 
NASA depends on, etc. They have roughly 1/3rd of the world's rare earth 
deposits, but there is no production really spun up anywhere else. We have a 
place in California, and friends in Australia, but those facilities are closed 
due to the low Chinese prices.

If you thought the crashes of 2000/2008 were bad, imagine 25-35% unemployment 
that would largely not be soaked up by newly opened US facilities due to the 
cost of manufacturing here.

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Foxconn is coming here (IPhone)
> Taiwan is hoping this goes down, their sovereignty is on the table 
> Philippines and Malaysia used to produce, probably a lot of shuttered 
> factories we haven't closed the door on cuba yet There is no shortage 
> of slave labor nations, china knows this.
> When you rely on the spoils of slaver and servitude such as we do, its 
> best to spread the risk around, and that's what we are poised to do 
> with this. It will hurt in the wallet for a time, but in the end, we 
> would be better, critical components will make their way back to 
> silicon valley, the rest of the stuff will spread out.
>
> We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this.
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:
>>
>> The short version of this, is that for the first time since April 
>> 30th, 1975 (end of Vietnam War) the American people might actually 
>> realize we are at war. They've largely been excluded from that fact 
>> for almost 17 years now. This however, would be a much more 
>> conventional battle. We are REALLY good at those, or at least we were 
>> at one time.
>>
>> The alternative is that North Korean continues their program to 
>> increase their range, accuracy, explosive potential, and eventually a 
>> multi-warhead (MIRV) situation. There have been some links in the 
>> past between NK and Iran, so if NK ends up being successful, Iran 
>> would likely be quick to follow.
>>
>> None of this is any good.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Kurt Fankhauser 
>> <lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for 
>> > North Korea what does this mean for wireless radios that are made 
>> > in China? Will we not be able to import them anymore? We rely quite 
>> > a bit on products made in China for our everyday lives. I use alot 
>> > of Ubiquiti products and if i can no longer get those my WISP 
>> > operations would be severely crippled...
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Our only hope here is China gets serious and steps up and imposes its own
sanctions against North Korea so that we don't have to cut China off from
our economy.

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> > We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this.
>
> No, that's folly.
>
> It's economic M.A.D. It would crash both the US and Chinese
> economies... would also impact Taiwan / HK.
>
> As far as tech stuff, we'd be fucked for a few years. China has 85-95%
> of the world's rare earth mining capacity used in things we use every
> day, from watches, phones, cars, drones, military equipment, medical
> equipment, things NASA depends on, etc. They have roughly 1/3rd of the
> world's rare earth deposits, but there is no production really spun up
> anywhere else. We have a place in California, and friends in
> Australia, but those facilities are closed due to the low Chinese
> prices.
>
> If you thought the crashes of 2000/2008 were bad, imagine 25-35%
> unemployment that would largely not be soaked up by newly opened US
> facilities due to the cost of manufacturing here.
>
> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
> > Foxconn is coming here (IPhone)
> > Taiwan is hoping this goes down, their sovereignty is on the table
> > Philippines and Malaysia used to produce, probably a lot of shuttered
> > factories
> > we haven't closed the door on cuba yet
> > There is no shortage of slave labor nations, china knows this.
> > When you rely on the spoils of slaver and servitude such as we do, its
> best
> > to spread the risk around, and that's what we are poised to do with
> this. It
> > will hurt in the wallet for a time, but in the end, we would be better,
> > critical components will make their way back to silicon valley, the rest
> of
> > the stuff will spread out.
> >
> > We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> The short version of this, is that for the first time since April
> >> 30th, 1975 (end of Vietnam War) the American people might actually
> >> realize we are at war. They've largely been excluded from that fact
> >> for almost 17 years now. This however, would be a much more
> >> conventional battle. We are REALLY good at those, or at least we were
> >> at one time.
> >>
> >> The alternative is that North Korean continues their program to
> >> increase their range, accuracy, explosive potential, and eventually a
> >> multi-warhead (MIRV) situation. There have been some links in the past
> >> between NK and Iran, so if NK ends up being successful, Iran would
> >> likely be quick to follow.
> >>
> >> None of this is any good.
> >>
> >> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Kurt Fankhauser
> >>  wrote:
> >> > I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for North
> >> > Korea
> >> > what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China? Will
> we
> >> > not
> >> > be able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on products made
> in
> >> > China for our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti products and if i
> >> > can
> >> > no longer get those my WISP operations would be severely crippled...
> >
> >
>

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Jaime Solorza]

Any notice how Lentish I have been?  I pray for Divine Intervention.. maybe
we should return FRB call that we received August 15have a nice day!

On Sep 4, 2017 11:00 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> Lets invoke Lent...
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Monday, September 4, 2017 10:44 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless
> radios...
>
> Foxconn is coming here (IPhone)
> Taiwan is hoping this goes down, their sovereignty is on the table
> Philippines and Malaysia used to produce, probably a lot of shuttered
> factories
> we haven't closed the door on cuba yet
> There is no shortage of slave labor nations, china knows this.
> When you rely on the spoils of slaver and servitude such as we do, its
> best to spread the risk around, and that's what we are poised to do with
> this. It will hurt in the wallet for a time, but in the end, we would be
> better, critical components will make their way back to silicon valley, the
> rest of the stuff will spread out.
>
> We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this.
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
> wrote:
>
>> The short version of this, is that for the first time since April
>> 30th, 1975 (end of Vietnam War) the American people might actually
>> realize we are at war. They've largely been excluded from that fact
>> for almost 17 years now. This however, would be a much more
>> conventional battle. We are REALLY good at those, or at least we were
>> at one time.
>>
>> The alternative is that North Korean continues their program to
>> increase their range, accuracy, explosive potential, and eventually a
>> multi-warhead (MIRV) situation. There have been some links in the past
>> between NK and Iran, so if NK ends up being successful, Iran would
>> likely be quick to follow.
>>
>> None of this is any good.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Kurt Fankhauser
>> <lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for North
>> Korea
>> > what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China? Will we
>> not
>> > be able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on products made in
>> > China for our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti products and if i
>> can
>> > no longer get those my WISP operations would be severely crippled...
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Josh Reynolds]

> We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this.

No, that's folly.

It's economic M.A.D. It would crash both the US and Chinese
economies... would also impact Taiwan / HK.

As far as tech stuff, we'd be fucked for a few years. China has 85-95%
of the world's rare earth mining capacity used in things we use every
day, from watches, phones, cars, drones, military equipment, medical
equipment, things NASA depends on, etc. They have roughly 1/3rd of the
world's rare earth deposits, but there is no production really spun up
anywhere else. We have a place in California, and friends in
Australia, but those facilities are closed due to the low Chinese
prices.

If you thought the crashes of 2000/2008 were bad, imagine 25-35%
unemployment that would largely not be soaked up by newly opened US
facilities due to the cost of manufacturing here.

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> Foxconn is coming here (IPhone)
> Taiwan is hoping this goes down, their sovereignty is on the table
> Philippines and Malaysia used to produce, probably a lot of shuttered
> factories
> we haven't closed the door on cuba yet
> There is no shortage of slave labor nations, china knows this.
> When you rely on the spoils of slaver and servitude such as we do, its best
> to spread the risk around, and that's what we are poised to do with this. It
> will hurt in the wallet for a time, but in the end, we would be better,
> critical components will make their way back to silicon valley, the rest of
> the stuff will spread out.
>
> We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this.
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>>
>> The short version of this, is that for the first time since April
>> 30th, 1975 (end of Vietnam War) the American people might actually
>> realize we are at war. They've largely been excluded from that fact
>> for almost 17 years now. This however, would be a much more
>> conventional battle. We are REALLY good at those, or at least we were
>> at one time.
>>
>> The alternative is that North Korean continues their program to
>> increase their range, accuracy, explosive potential, and eventually a
>> multi-warhead (MIRV) situation. There have been some links in the past
>> between NK and Iran, so if NK ends up being successful, Iran would
>> likely be quick to follow.
>>
>> None of this is any good.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Kurt Fankhauser
>>  wrote:
>> > I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for North
>> > Korea
>> > what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China? Will we
>> > not
>> > be able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on products made in
>> > China for our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti products and if i
>> > can
>> > no longer get those my WISP operations would be severely crippled...
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[chuck]

Lets invoke Lent...

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 10:44 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

Foxconn is coming here (IPhone)
Taiwan is hoping this goes down, their sovereignty is on the table
Philippines and Malaysia used to produce, probably a lot of shuttered factories
we haven't closed the door on cuba yet
There is no shortage of slave labor nations, china knows this.
When you rely on the spoils of slaver and servitude such as we do, its best to 
spread the risk around, and that's what we are poised to do with this. It will 
hurt in the wallet for a time, but in the end, we would be better, critical 
components will make their way back to silicon valley, the rest of the stuff 
will spread out. 

We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this. 




On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:

  The short version of this, is that for the first time since April
  30th, 1975 (end of Vietnam War) the American people might actually
  realize we are at war. They've largely been excluded from that fact
  for almost 17 years now. This however, would be a much more
  conventional battle. We are REALLY good at those, or at least we were
  at one time.

  The alternative is that North Korean continues their program to
  increase their range, accuracy, explosive potential, and eventually a
  multi-warhead (MIRV) situation. There have been some links in the past
  between NK and Iran, so if NK ends up being successful, Iran would
  likely be quick to follow.

  None of this is any good.

  On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Kurt Fankhauser

  <lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:
  > I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for North Korea
  > what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China? Will we not
  > be able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on products made in
  > China for our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti products and if i can
  > no longer get those my WISP operations would be severely crippled...

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Steve Jones]

Foxconn is coming here (IPhone)
Taiwan is hoping this goes down, their sovereignty is on the table
Philippines and Malaysia used to produce, probably a lot of shuttered
factories
we haven't closed the door on cuba yet
There is no shortage of slave labor nations, china knows this.
When you rely on the spoils of slaver and servitude such as we do, its best
to spread the risk around, and that's what we are poised to do with this.
It will hurt in the wallet for a time, but in the end, we would be better,
critical components will make their way back to silicon valley, the rest of
the stuff will spread out.

We actually have a great deal of bargaining power in all this.




On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> The short version of this, is that for the first time since April
> 30th, 1975 (end of Vietnam War) the American people might actually
> realize we are at war. They've largely been excluded from that fact
> for almost 17 years now. This however, would be a much more
> conventional battle. We are REALLY good at those, or at least we were
> at one time.
>
> The alternative is that North Korean continues their program to
> increase their range, accuracy, explosive potential, and eventually a
> multi-warhead (MIRV) situation. There have been some links in the past
> between NK and Iran, so if NK ends up being successful, Iran would
> likely be quick to follow.
>
> None of this is any good.
>
> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Kurt Fankhauser
>  wrote:
> > I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for North
> Korea
> > what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China? Will we
> not
> > be able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on products made in
> > China for our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti products and if i
> can
> > no longer get those my WISP operations would be severely crippled...
>

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Josh Reynolds]

The short version of this, is that for the first time since April
30th, 1975 (end of Vietnam War) the American people might actually
realize we are at war. They've largely been excluded from that fact
for almost 17 years now. This however, would be a much more
conventional battle. We are REALLY good at those, or at least we were
at one time.

The alternative is that North Korean continues their program to
increase their range, accuracy, explosive potential, and eventually a
multi-warhead (MIRV) situation. There have been some links in the past
between NK and Iran, so if NK ends up being successful, Iran would
likely be quick to follow.

None of this is any good.

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Kurt Fankhauser
 wrote:
> I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for North Korea
> what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China? Will we not
> be able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on products made in
> China for our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti products and if i can
> no longer get those my WISP operations would be severely crippled...

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Josh Reynolds]

​Edit: I just realized my mail got stuck in draft.​

Walmart and therefore most Americans would be severely impacted by the loss
of cheap goods.

Tech imports come to a halt.

Etc
​.

It's far larger than all that, I'm just touching on a small part of the
surface issues. ​
Nasty, nasty stuff.

At this point though, the alternative to THAT is getting increasingly and
sadly more likely day by day.

South Korea would be in deep shit.

On Sep 4, 2017 10:56 AM, "Kurt Fankhauser"  wrote:

> I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for North
> Korea what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China? Will
> we not be able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on products made
> in China for our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti products and if i
> can no longer get those my WISP operations would be severely crippled...
>

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Bill Prince]

Well, if it is typical for this administration, whatever "plan" they 
come up with will not have been thought through, with little or no 
regard what the whole consequences will be.


Name one thing that you use daily that does not have some component made 
in China.



bp


On 9/4/2017 8:56 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for North 
Korea what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China? 
Will we not be able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on 
products made in China for our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti 
products and if i can no longer get those my WISP operations would be 
severely crippled...

Re: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[chuck]

Walmart much bigger problem

From: Kurt Fankhauser 
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 9:56 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for North Korea 
what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China? Will we not be 
able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on products made in China for 
our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti products and if i can no longer get 
those my WISP operations would be severely crippled...

[AFMUG] North Korea, China, sanctions, and wireless radios...

[Kurt Fankhauser]

I'm starting to get worried if the US tries to punish China for North Korea
what does this mean for wireless radios that are made in China? Will we not
be able to import them anymore? We rely quite a bit on products made in
China for our everyday lives. I use alot of Ubiquiti products and if i can
no longer get those my WISP operations would be severely crippled...