Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

[Rick Harnish]

Correct Mathew.  If any changes are made to the equipment on the tower, you 
lose grandfathering protection.  Makes no sense at all.  You have to keep Wimax 
equipment up or lose protection.  

 

Respectfully,

 

--

Rick Harnish

 

Director of WISP Markets

 

 <https://na.baicells.com/> Baicells Technologies North America, Inc.

Mobile:  (260) 307-4000

 

 <mailto:rick.harn...@na.baicells.com> rick.harn...@na.baicells.com

 <http://www.facebook.com/baicells> www.facebook.com/baicells

 

 

From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Monday, April 2, 2018 5:21 PM
To: af <af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

 

the grandfathering protection was probably overrated anyway, since, as far as I 
know, it only applied to gear that was in the air already at that point... we 
have very little, if any, 3.65ghz stuff still active that was at the time - the 
vast majority of what we have was added after that point anyway.

 

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 4:06 PM, Rick Harnish <rick.harn...@baicells.com 
<mailto:rick.harn...@baicells.com> > wrote:

Actually, to get grandfathering protection when the CBRS band opens up, you had 
to re-register in a new "clean" database by August 7th, 2016.  Here is a list 
of those who obtained Grandfathering Protection.  
https://opendata.fcc.gov/Wireless/ULS-3650-Locations-Default-View/dpvg-tvcx

 

Respectfully,

 

--

Rick Harnish

 

Director of WISP Markets

 

Baicells Technologies North America, Inc. <https://na.baicells.com/> 

Mobile:  (260) 307-4000 <tel:(260)%20307-4000> 

 

rick.harn...@na.baicells.com <mailto:rick.harn...@na.baicells.com> 

www.facebook.com/baicells <http://www.facebook.com/baicells> 

 

 

Respectfully,

 

--

Rick Harnish

 

Director of WISP Markets

 

 <https://na.baicells.com/> Baicells Technologies North America, Inc.

Mobile:  (260) 307-4000 <tel:(260)%20307-4000> 

 

 <mailto:rick.harn...@na.baicells.com> rick.harn...@na.baicells.com

 <http://www.facebook.com/baicells> www.facebook.com/baicells

 

 

From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> > On Behalf Of 
Mathew Howard
Sent: Monday, April 2, 2018 10:29 AM
To: af <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

 

If you do an ABAB channel plan, you can do four sectors per tower on 20mhz 
channels using GPS sync, but that pretty much gives you no room to work with if 
you into interference, so in practice, more using larger that 10mhz channels 
probably isn't going to be realistic long term for most of us. 

 

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 8:23 AM, Dave <dmilho...@wletc.com 
<mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com> > wrote:

50Mhz is not a lot of room for even 2 providers in a county wide area. Because 
customer wants 4k tv to work so either 15mhz or 20mhz wide 
channel spacing is needed how many channels can be squeezed out of that 
including reuse with gps?
Scaling can become a major problem as well for both neighbors. Just another 
band turned to crap after everyone becomes a wisp in your area.

Medusa save us from the nether regions of UHD4k LOL

On 04/01/2018 11:01 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

The problem is that it was impractical to register every subscriber location.  
I registered 60 locations one night and it took me several hours.  There was no 
way I was going to invest that much labor into registrations.  They needed both 
a bulk registration method and to make their registration page respond faster.

 

 

That said, I have had coordination conversations with another registrant.  It 
was friendly, but it was only marginally productive.  We were not able to agree 
on TDD ratios or a plan for dividing the available 50mhz, so basically we kept 
doing our own thing and resolving interference cases individually as they came 
up.  It sounds like some of you have bad neighbors. 

 

 

 

-- Original Message --

From: "Mathew Howard" <mhoward...@gmail.com <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> >

To: "af" <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >

Sent: 3/31/2018 9:48:52 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

 

>From what I've seen, most people are just registering every radio for the 
>entire 50mhz, so it's not like you can use the information in the database to 
>actually coordinate anything (and I think that really is the best option in 
>the current climate, since there's a good chance your going to have to change 
>channels at some point because of newcomers to the area)... then there are 
>also the people that never bother to register anything, or register a few 
>radios and then give up because it's too much work...

 

I'm aware of at least four other companies in our general area that have 
AP/base stations registered, but last I check

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

[Jason McKemie]

We have a very large operator around here that basically monopolizes the
band, but has zero CPEs registered. So I refuse to do it as well, not
posting my customer locations for their consumption when they will not do
the same, especially when theirs probably outnumber mine 30-1. I'm not
really a fan of this band due to interference, but thanks to Baicells I
have actually gotten it to be usable for the first time since I've had the
license - which is about as long as anyone.

On Monday, April 2, 2018, Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Because it's currently illegal to operate a 3.65ghz radio without a
> license... but it's also against the rules to operate a radio that's not
> registered, and most people don't seem care too much about that, so I'm not
> really sure why they bother with the license.
>
> On Mon, Apr 2, 2018, 8:40 PM Rory Conaway <r...@triadwireless.net> wrote:
>
>> So what was the purpose of purchasing licenses today?
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Harnish
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 2, 2018 2:06 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration
>>
>>
>>
>> Actually, to get grandfathering protection when the CBRS band opens up,
>> you had to re-register in a new "clean" database by August 7th, 2016.  Here
>> is a list of those who obtained Grandfathering Protection.
>> https://opendata.fcc.gov/Wireless/ULS-3650-Locations-
>> Default-View/dpvg-tvcx
>>
>>
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>>
>>
>> -[image: BaiCells_Tiny3]-
>>
>> Rick Harnish
>>
>>
>>
>> Director of WISP Markets
>>
>>
>>
>> Baicells Technologies North America, Inc. <https://na.baicells.com/>
>>
>> Mobile:  (260) 307-4000
>>
>>
>>
>> rick.harn...@na.baicells.com
>>
>> www.facebook.com/baicells
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>>
>>
>> -[image: BaiCells_Tiny3]-
>>
>> Rick Harnish
>>
>>
>>
>> Director of WISP Markets
>>
>>
>>
>> Baicells Technologies North America, Inc. <https://na.baicells.com/>
>>
>> Mobile:  (260) 307-4000
>>
>>
>>
>> rick.harn...@na.baicells.com
>>
>> www.facebook.com/baicells
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 2, 2018 10:29 AM
>> *To:* af <af@afmug.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration
>>
>>
>>
>> If you do an ABAB channel plan, you can do four sectors per tower on
>> 20mhz channels using GPS sync, but that pretty much gives you no room to
>> work with if you into interference, so in practice, more using larger that
>> 10mhz channels probably isn't going to be realistic long term for most of
>> us.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 8:23 AM, Dave <dmilho...@wletc.com> wrote:
>>
>> 50Mhz is not a lot of room for even 2 providers in a county wide area.
>> Because customer wants 4k tv to work so either 15mhz or 20mhz wide
>> channel spacing is needed how many channels can be squeezed out of that
>> including reuse with gps?
>> Scaling can become a major problem as well for both neighbors. Just
>> another band turned to crap after everyone becomes a wisp in your area.
>>
>> Medusa save us from the nether regions of UHD4k LOL
>>
>> On 04/01/2018 11:01 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>
>> The problem is that it was impractical to register every subscriber
>> location.  I registered 60 locations one night and it took me several
>> hours.  There was no way I was going to invest that much labor into
>> registrations.  They needed both a bulk registration method and to make
>> their registration page respond faster.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> That said, I have had coordination conversations with another
>> registrant.  It was friendly, but it was only marginally productive.  We
>> were not able to agree on TDD ratios or a plan for dividing the available
>> 50mhz, so basically we kept doing our own thing and resolving interference
>> cases individually as they came up.  It sounds like some of you have bad
>> neighbors.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>>
>> From: "Mathew Howard" <mhoward...@gmail.com>
>>
>> To: "af&q

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

[Steve Jones]

im guessing just prior to the new rules going into effect, the fcc will
hammer every illegal operator out there to clean house, that will be a
joyous day.

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 8:40 PM, Rory Conaway <r...@triadwireless.net> wrote:

> So what was the purpose of purchasing licenses today?
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Harnish
> *Sent:* Monday, April 2, 2018 2:06 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration
>
>
>
> Actually, to get grandfathering protection when the CBRS band opens up,
> you had to re-register in a new "clean" database by August 7th, 2016.  Here
> is a list of those who obtained Grandfathering Protection.
> https://opendata.fcc.gov/Wireless/ULS-3650-Locations-
> Default-View/dpvg-tvcx
>
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
>
>
> -[image: BaiCells_Tiny3]-
>
> Rick Harnish
>
>
>
> Director of WISP Markets
>
>
>
> Baicells Technologies North America, Inc. <https://na.baicells.com/>
>
> Mobile:  (260) 307-4000
>
>
>
> rick.harn...@na.baicells.com
>
> www.facebook.com/baicells
>
>
>
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
>
>
> -[image: BaiCells_Tiny3]-
>
> Rick Harnish
>
>
>
> Director of WISP Markets
>
>
>
> Baicells Technologies North America, Inc. <https://na.baicells.com/>
>
> Mobile:  (260) 307-4000
>
>
>
> rick.harn...@na.baicells.com
>
> www.facebook.com/baicells
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Monday, April 2, 2018 10:29 AM
> *To:* af <af@afmug.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration
>
>
>
> If you do an ABAB channel plan, you can do four sectors per tower on 20mhz
> channels using GPS sync, but that pretty much gives you no room to work
> with if you into interference, so in practice, more using larger that 10mhz
> channels probably isn't going to be realistic long term for most of us.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 8:23 AM, Dave <dmilho...@wletc.com> wrote:
>
> 50Mhz is not a lot of room for even 2 providers in a county wide area.
> Because customer wants 4k tv to work so either 15mhz or 20mhz wide
> channel spacing is needed how many channels can be squeezed out of that
> including reuse with gps?
> Scaling can become a major problem as well for both neighbors. Just
> another band turned to crap after everyone becomes a wisp in your area.
>
> Medusa save us from the nether regions of UHD4k LOL
>
> On 04/01/2018 11:01 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> The problem is that it was impractical to register every subscriber
> location.  I registered 60 locations one night and it took me several
> hours.  There was no way I was going to invest that much labor into
> registrations.  They needed both a bulk registration method and to make
> their registration page respond faster.
>
>
>
>
>
> That said, I have had coordination conversations with another registrant.
> It was friendly, but it was only marginally productive.  We were not able
> to agree on TDD ratios or a plan for dividing the available 50mhz, so
> basically we kept doing our own thing and resolving interference cases
> individually as they came up.  It sounds like some of you have bad
> neighbors.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
>
> From: "Mathew Howard" <mhoward...@gmail.com>
>
> To: "af" <af@afmug.com>
>
> Sent: 3/31/2018 9:48:52 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration
>
>
>
> From what I've seen, most people are just registering every radio for the
> entire 50mhz, so it's not like you can use the information in the database
> to actually coordinate anything (and I think that really is the best option
> in the current climate, since there's a good chance your going to have to
> change channels at some point because of newcomers to the area)... then
> there are also the people that never bother to register anything, or
> register a few radios and then give up because it's too much work...
>
>
>
> I'm aware of at least four other companies in our general area that have
> AP/base stations registered, but last I checked only one of them had any
> customer locations registered... for some reason, a lot of people seem to
> be under the Impression that you only need to register the AP (or eNB, in
> LTE speak), but that's not the case and never was - everything is supposed
> to be registered (there is an exception for mobile devices, but that
> doesn't apply to anything a WISP would be using).
>
>
>
> On Sat, 

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

[Mathew Howard]

Because it's currently illegal to operate a 3.65ghz radio without a
license... but it's also against the rules to operate a radio that's not
registered, and most people don't seem care too much about that, so I'm not
really sure why they bother with the license.

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018, 8:40 PM Rory Conaway <r...@triadwireless.net> wrote:

> So what was the purpose of purchasing licenses today?
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Harnish
> *Sent:* Monday, April 2, 2018 2:06 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration
>
>
>
> Actually, to get grandfathering protection when the CBRS band opens up,
> you had to re-register in a new "clean" database by August 7th, 2016.  Here
> is a list of those who obtained Grandfathering Protection.
> https://opendata.fcc.gov/Wireless/ULS-3650-Locations-Default-View/dpvg-tvcx
>
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
>
>
> -[image: BaiCells_Tiny3]-
>
> Rick Harnish
>
>
>
> Director of WISP Markets
>
>
>
> Baicells Technologies North America, Inc. <https://na.baicells.com/>
>
> Mobile:  (260) 307-4000
>
>
>
> rick.harn...@na.baicells.com
>
> www.facebook.com/baicells
>
>
>
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
>
>
> -[image: BaiCells_Tiny3]-
>
> Rick Harnish
>
>
>
> Director of WISP Markets
>
>
>
> Baicells Technologies North America, Inc. <https://na.baicells.com/>
>
> Mobile:  (260) 307-4000
>
>
>
> rick.harn...@na.baicells.com
>
> www.facebook.com/baicells
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Monday, April 2, 2018 10:29 AM
> *To:* af <af@afmug.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration
>
>
>
> If you do an ABAB channel plan, you can do four sectors per tower on 20mhz
> channels using GPS sync, but that pretty much gives you no room to work
> with if you into interference, so in practice, more using larger that 10mhz
> channels probably isn't going to be realistic long term for most of us.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 8:23 AM, Dave <dmilho...@wletc.com> wrote:
>
> 50Mhz is not a lot of room for even 2 providers in a county wide area.
> Because customer wants 4k tv to work so either 15mhz or 20mhz wide
> channel spacing is needed how many channels can be squeezed out of that
> including reuse with gps?
> Scaling can become a major problem as well for both neighbors. Just
> another band turned to crap after everyone becomes a wisp in your area.
>
> Medusa save us from the nether regions of UHD4k LOL
>
> On 04/01/2018 11:01 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> The problem is that it was impractical to register every subscriber
> location.  I registered 60 locations one night and it took me several
> hours.  There was no way I was going to invest that much labor into
> registrations.  They needed both a bulk registration method and to make
> their registration page respond faster.
>
>
>
>
>
> That said, I have had coordination conversations with another registrant.
> It was friendly, but it was only marginally productive.  We were not able
> to agree on TDD ratios or a plan for dividing the available 50mhz, so
> basically we kept doing our own thing and resolving interference cases
> individually as they came up.  It sounds like some of you have bad
> neighbors.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
>
> From: "Mathew Howard" <mhoward...@gmail.com>
>
> To: "af" <af@afmug.com>
>
> Sent: 3/31/2018 9:48:52 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration
>
>
>
> From what I've seen, most people are just registering every radio for the
> entire 50mhz, so it's not like you can use the information in the database
> to actually coordinate anything (and I think that really is the best option
> in the current climate, since there's a good chance your going to have to
> change channels at some point because of newcomers to the area)... then
> there are also the people that never bother to register anything, or
> register a few radios and then give up because it's too much work...
>
>
>
> I'm aware of at least four other companies in our general area that have
> AP/base stations registered, but last I checked only one of them had any
> customer locations registered... for some reason, a lot of people seem to
> be under the Impression that you only need to register the AP (or eNB, in
> LTE speak), but that's not the case and never was - everything is supposed
> to be registered (there is an exception for mobile dev

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

[Seth Mattinen]

On 4/2/18 6:40 PM, Rory Conaway wrote:

So what was the purpose of purchasing licenses today?



To follow the rules, such as they are.

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

[Rory Conaway]

So what was the purpose of purchasing licenses today?

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rick Harnish
Sent: Monday, April 2, 2018 2:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration


Actually, to get grandfathering protection when the CBRS band opens up, you had 
to re-register in a new "clean" database by August 7th, 2016.  Here is a list 
of those who obtained Grandfathering Protection.  
https://opendata.fcc.gov/Wireless/ULS-3650-Locations-Default-View/dpvg-tvcx


Respectfully,

-[BaiCells_Tiny3]-
Rick Harnish

Director of WISP Markets

Baicells Technologies North America, Inc.<https://na.baicells.com/>
Mobile:  (260) 307-4000

rick.harn...@na.baicells.com<mailto:rick.harn...@na.baicells.com>
www.facebook.com/baicells<http://www.facebook.com/baicells>


Respectfully,

-[BaiCells_Tiny3]-
Rick Harnish

Director of WISP Markets

Baicells Technologies North America, Inc.<https://na.baicells.com/>
Mobile:  (260) 307-4000

rick.harn...@na.baicells.com<mailto:rick.harn...@na.baicells.com>
www.facebook.com/baicells<http://www.facebook.com/baicells>


From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Mathew Howard
Sent: Monday, April 2, 2018 10:29 AM
To: af <af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

If you do an ABAB channel plan, you can do four sectors per tower on 20mhz 
channels using GPS sync, but that pretty much gives you no room to work with if 
you into interference, so in practice, more using larger that 10mhz channels 
probably isn't going to be realistic long term for most of us.

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 8:23 AM, Dave 
<dmilho...@wletc.com<mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:
50Mhz is not a lot of room for even 2 providers in a county wide area. Because 
customer wants 4k tv to work so either 15mhz or 20mhz wide
channel spacing is needed how many channels can be squeezed out of that 
including reuse with gps?
Scaling can become a major problem as well for both neighbors. Just another 
band turned to crap after everyone becomes a wisp in your area.

Medusa save us from the nether regions of UHD4k LOL
On 04/01/2018 11:01 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
The problem is that it was impractical to register every subscriber location.  
I registered 60 locations one night and it took me several hours.  There was no 
way I was going to invest that much labor into registrations.  They needed both 
a bulk registration method and to make their registration page respond faster.


That said, I have had coordination conversations with another registrant.  It 
was friendly, but it was only marginally productive.  We were not able to agree 
on TDD ratios or a plan for dividing the available 50mhz, so basically we kept 
doing our own thing and resolving interference cases individually as they came 
up.  It sounds like some of you have bad neighbors.



-- Original Message --
From: "Mathew Howard" <mhoward...@gmail.com<mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>>
To: "af" <af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Sent: 3/31/2018 9:48:52 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

From what I've seen, most people are just registering every radio for the 
entire 50mhz, so it's not like you can use the information in the database to 
actually coordinate anything (and I think that really is the best option in the 
current climate, since there's a good chance your going to have to change 
channels at some point because of newcomers to the area)... then there are also 
the people that never bother to register anything, or register a few radios and 
then give up because it's too much work...

I'm aware of at least four other companies in our general area that have 
AP/base stations registered, but last I checked only one of them had any 
customer locations registered... for some reason, a lot of people seem to be 
under the Impression that you only need to register the AP (or eNB, in LTE 
speak), but that's not the case and never was - everything is supposed to be 
registered (there is an exception for mobile devices, but that doesn't apply to 
anything a WISP would be using).

On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 6:05 PM, David Coudron 
<david.coud...@advantenon.com<mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:
You need to register the stations, but there is no requirement to coordinate.   
However, depending on how many folks are in your area it still might be a good 
idea to make sure they are up to date on all their registrations.   Sometimes 
we find folks don’t always update their information on the FCC site and you can 
still run into interference.   If there are too many folks in the area, it is 
easier to find open channels and then register.


David Coudron



From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> On Behalf Of TJ 
Trout
Sent: Satu

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

[Mathew Howard]

the grandfathering protection was probably overrated anyway, since, as far
as I know, it only applied to gear that was in the air already at that
point... we have very little, if any, 3.65ghz stuff still active that was
at the time - the vast majority of what we have was added after that point
anyway.

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 4:06 PM, Rick Harnish <rick.harn...@baicells.com>
wrote:

> Actually, to get grandfathering protection when the CBRS band opens up,
> you had to re-register in a new "clean" database by August 7th, 2016.  Here
> is a list of those who obtained Grandfathering Protection.
> https://opendata.fcc.gov/Wireless/ULS-3650-Locations-
> Default-View/dpvg-tvcx
>
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
>
>
> -[image: BaiCells_Tiny3]-
>
> Rick Harnish
>
>
>
> Director of WISP Markets
>
>
>
> Baicells Technologies North America, Inc. <https://na.baicells.com/>
>
> Mobile:  (260) 307-4000
>
>
>
> rick.harn...@na.baicells.com
>
> www.facebook.com/baicells
>
>
>
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
>
>
> -[image: BaiCells_Tiny3]-
>
> Rick Harnish
>
>
>
> Director of WISP Markets
>
>
>
> Baicells Technologies North America, Inc. <https://na.baicells.com/>
>
> Mobile:  (260) 307-4000
>
>
>
> rick.harn...@na.baicells.com
>
> www.facebook.com/baicells
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Monday, April 2, 2018 10:29 AM
> *To:* af <af@afmug.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration
>
>
>
> If you do an ABAB channel plan, you can do four sectors per tower on 20mhz
> channels using GPS sync, but that pretty much gives you no room to work
> with if you into interference, so in practice, more using larger that 10mhz
> channels probably isn't going to be realistic long term for most of us.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 8:23 AM, Dave <dmilho...@wletc.com> wrote:
>
> 50Mhz is not a lot of room for even 2 providers in a county wide area.
> Because customer wants 4k tv to work so either 15mhz or 20mhz wide
> channel spacing is needed how many channels can be squeezed out of that
> including reuse with gps?
> Scaling can become a major problem as well for both neighbors. Just
> another band turned to crap after everyone becomes a wisp in your area.
>
> Medusa save us from the nether regions of UHD4k LOL
>
> On 04/01/2018 11:01 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> The problem is that it was impractical to register every subscriber
> location.  I registered 60 locations one night and it took me several
> hours.  There was no way I was going to invest that much labor into
> registrations.  They needed both a bulk registration method and to make
> their registration page respond faster.
>
>
>
>
>
> That said, I have had coordination conversations with another registrant.
> It was friendly, but it was only marginally productive.  We were not able
> to agree on TDD ratios or a plan for dividing the available 50mhz, so
> basically we kept doing our own thing and resolving interference cases
> individually as they came up.  It sounds like some of you have bad
> neighbors.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
>
> From: "Mathew Howard" <mhoward...@gmail.com>
>
> To: "af" <af@afmug.com>
>
> Sent: 3/31/2018 9:48:52 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration
>
>
>
> From what I've seen, most people are just registering every radio for the
> entire 50mhz, so it's not like you can use the information in the database
> to actually coordinate anything (and I think that really is the best option
> in the current climate, since there's a good chance your going to have to
> change channels at some point because of newcomers to the area)... then
> there are also the people that never bother to register anything, or
> register a few radios and then give up because it's too much work...
>
>
>
> I'm aware of at least four other companies in our general area that have
> AP/base stations registered, but last I checked only one of them had any
> customer locations registered... for some reason, a lot of people seem to
> be under the Impression that you only need to register the AP (or eNB, in
> LTE speak), but that's not the case and never was - everything is supposed
> to be registered (there is an exception for mobile devices, but that
> doesn't apply to anything a WISP would be using).
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 6:05 PM, David Coudron <
> david.coud...@advantenon.com> wrote:
>
> You need to register the stations, but there is no requireme

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

[Rick Harnish]

Actually, to get grandfathering protection when the CBRS band opens up, you had 
to re-register in a new "clean" database by August 7th, 2016.  Here is a list 
of those who obtained Grandfathering Protection.  
https://opendata.fcc.gov/Wireless/ULS-3650-Locations-Default-View/dpvg-tvcx

 

Respectfully,

 

--

Rick Harnish

 

Director of WISP Markets

 

Baicells Technologies North America, Inc. <https://na.baicells.com/> 

Mobile:  (260) 307-4000

 

rick.harn...@na.baicells.com <mailto:rick.harn...@na.baicells.com> 

www.facebook.com/baicells <http://www.facebook.com/baicells> 

 

 

Respectfully,

 

--

Rick Harnish

 

Director of WISP Markets

 

 <https://na.baicells.com/> Baicells Technologies North America, Inc.

Mobile:  (260) 307-4000

 

 <mailto:rick.harn...@na.baicells.com> rick.harn...@na.baicells.com

 <http://www.facebook.com/baicells> www.facebook.com/baicells

 

 

From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Monday, April 2, 2018 10:29 AM
To: af <af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

 

If you do an ABAB channel plan, you can do four sectors per tower on 20mhz 
channels using GPS sync, but that pretty much gives you no room to work with if 
you into interference, so in practice, more using larger that 10mhz channels 
probably isn't going to be realistic long term for most of us. 

 

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 8:23 AM, Dave <dmilho...@wletc.com 
<mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com> > wrote:

50Mhz is not a lot of room for even 2 providers in a county wide area. Because 
customer wants 4k tv to work so either 15mhz or 20mhz wide 
channel spacing is needed how many channels can be squeezed out of that 
including reuse with gps?
Scaling can become a major problem as well for both neighbors. Just another 
band turned to crap after everyone becomes a wisp in your area.

Medusa save us from the nether regions of UHD4k LOL



On 04/01/2018 11:01 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

The problem is that it was impractical to register every subscriber location.  
I registered 60 locations one night and it took me several hours.  There was no 
way I was going to invest that much labor into registrations.  They needed both 
a bulk registration method and to make their registration page respond faster.

 

 

That said, I have had coordination conversations with another registrant.  It 
was friendly, but it was only marginally productive.  We were not able to agree 
on TDD ratios or a plan for dividing the available 50mhz, so basically we kept 
doing our own thing and resolving interference cases individually as they came 
up.  It sounds like some of you have bad neighbors. 

 

 

 

-- Original Message --

From: "Mathew Howard" <mhoward...@gmail.com <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> >

To: "af" <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >

Sent: 3/31/2018 9:48:52 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

 

>From what I've seen, most people are just registering every radio for the 
>entire 50mhz, so it's not like you can use the information in the database to 
>actually coordinate anything (and I think that really is the best option in 
>the current climate, since there's a good chance your going to have to change 
>channels at some point because of newcomers to the area)... then there are 
>also the people that never bother to register anything, or register a few 
>radios and then give up because it's too much work...

 

I'm aware of at least four other companies in our general area that have 
AP/base stations registered, but last I checked only one of them had any 
customer locations registered... for some reason, a lot of people seem to be 
under the Impression that you only need to register the AP (or eNB, in LTE 
speak), but that's not the case and never was - everything is supposed to be 
registered (there is an exception for mobile devices, but that doesn't apply to 
anything a WISP would be using). 

 

On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 6:05 PM, David Coudron <david.coud...@advantenon.com 
<mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com> > wrote:

You need to register the stations, but there is no requirement to coordinate.   
However, depending on how many folks are in your area it still might be a good 
idea to make sure they are up to date on all their registrations.   Sometimes 
we find folks don’t always update their information on the FCC site and you can 
still run into interference.   If there are too many folks in the area, it is 
easier to find open channels and then register.

 

 

David Coudron

 

 

 

From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> > On Behalf Of TJ 
Trout
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2018 1:57 PM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Subject: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

 

I have a NN license but have never used it, what 

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

[Mathew Howard]

If you do an ABAB channel plan, you can do four sectors per tower on 20mhz
channels using GPS sync, but that pretty much gives you no room to work
with if you into interference, so in practice, more using larger that 10mhz
channels probably isn't going to be realistic long term for most of us.

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 8:23 AM, Dave <dmilho...@wletc.com> wrote:

> 50Mhz is not a lot of room for even 2 providers in a county wide area.
> Because customer wants 4k tv to work so either 15mhz or 20mhz wide
> channel spacing is needed how many channels can be squeezed out of that
> including reuse with gps?
> Scaling can become a major problem as well for both neighbors. Just
> another band turned to crap after everyone becomes a wisp in your area.
>
> Medusa save us from the nether regions of UHD4k LOL
>
>
> On 04/01/2018 11:01 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> The problem is that it was impractical to register every subscriber
> location.  I registered 60 locations one night and it took me several
> hours.  There was no way I was going to invest that much labor into
> registrations.  They needed both a bulk registration method and to make
> their registration page respond faster.
>
>
> That said, I have had coordination conversations with another registrant.
> It was friendly, but it was only marginally productive.  We were not able
> to agree on TDD ratios or a plan for dividing the available 50mhz, so
> basically we kept doing our own thing and resolving interference cases
> individually as they came up.  It sounds like some of you have bad
> neighbors.
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Mathew Howard" <mhoward...@gmail.com>
> To: "af" <af@afmug.com>
> Sent: 3/31/2018 9:48:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration
>
> From what I've seen, most people are just registering every radio for the
> entire 50mhz, so it's not like you can use the information in the database
> to actually coordinate anything (and I think that really is the best option
> in the current climate, since there's a good chance your going to have to
> change channels at some point because of newcomers to the area)... then
> there are also the people that never bother to register anything, or
> register a few radios and then give up because it's too much work...
>
> I'm aware of at least four other companies in our general area that have
> AP/base stations registered, but last I checked only one of them had any
> customer locations registered... for some reason, a lot of people seem to
> be under the Impression that you only need to register the AP (or eNB, in
> LTE speak), but that's not the case and never was - everything is supposed
> to be registered (there is an exception for mobile devices, but that
> doesn't apply to anything a WISP would be using).
>
> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 6:05 PM, David Coudron <
> david.coud...@advantenon.com> wrote:
>
>> You need to register the stations, but there is no requirement to
>> coordinate.   However, depending on how many folks are in your area it
>> still might be a good idea to make sure they are up to date on all their
>> registrations.   Sometimes we find folks don’t always update their
>> information on the FCC site and you can still run into interference.   If
>> there are too many folks in the area, it is easier to find open channels
>> and then register.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> David Coudron
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 31, 2018 1:57 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration
>>
>>
>>
>> I have a NN license but have never used it, what is the best
>> practice/process for registering a base when you have other operators with
>> bases registered nearby? Do you need to coordinate anything?
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm looking at deploying in a small town but 2-3 other operators have
>> bases already registered in the area, can I still deploy? Obviously need to
>> do a SA before anything
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> TJ
>>
>
>
> --
>

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

[Mathew Howard]

Anybody who's doing anything with 3.65ghz should check Comsearch's
quicklook tool.

https://solutions.comsearch.com/applications/search_3650/search3650MHZ.jsp


On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 8:46 AM, Dave  wrote:

> At a minimal try to find out who the base station owners are and what they
> are doing because I have seen older C-band station show up as registered
> sites.
> Which is ok because they have filters on their gear to notch out what they
> dont use. If your right in front of the dish it could be an issue otherwise
> should be ok.
>  If its other Wisp then good luck.
>
>
>
>
> On 03/31/2018 01:57 PM, TJ Trout wrote:
>
> I have a NN license but have never used it, what is the best
> practice/process for registering a base when you have other operators with
> bases registered nearby? Do you need to coordinate anything?
>
> I'm looking at deploying in a small town but 2-3 other operators have
> bases already registered in the area, can I still deploy? Obviously need to
> do a SA before anything
>
> Thanks,
>
> TJ
>
>
> --
>

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

[Dave]

At a minimal try to find out who the base station owners are and what 
they are doing because I have seen older C-band station show up as 
registered sites.
Which is ok because they have filters on their gear to notch out what 
they dont use. If your right in front of the dish it could be an issue 
otherwise should be ok.

 If its other Wisp then good luck.




On 03/31/2018 01:57 PM, TJ Trout wrote:
I have a NN license but have never used it, what is the best 
practice/process for registering a base when you have other operators 
with bases registered nearby? Do you need to coordinate anything?


I'm looking at deploying in a small town but 2-3 other operators have 
bases already registered in the area, can I still deploy? Obviously 
need to do a SA before anything


Thanks,

TJ


--

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

[Dave]

50Mhz is not a lot of room for even 2 providers in a county wide area. 
Because customer wants 4k tv to work so either 15mhz or 20mhz wide
channel spacing is needed how many channels can be squeezed out of that 
including reuse with gps?
Scaling can become a major problem as well for both neighbors. Just 
another band turned to crap after everyone becomes a wisp in your area.


Medusa save us from the nether regions of UHD4k LOL


On 04/01/2018 11:01 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
The problem is that it was impractical to register every subscriber 
location.  I registered 60 locations one night and it took me several 
hours.  There was no way I was going to invest that much labor into 
registrations.  They needed both a bulk registration method and to 
make their registration page respond faster.



That said, I have had coordination conversations with another 
registrant.  It was friendly, but it was only marginally productive. 
 We were not able to agree on TDD ratios or a plan for dividing the 
available 50mhz, so basically we kept doing our own thing and 
resolving interference cases individually as they came up.  It sounds 
like some of you have bad neighbors.




-- Original Message --
From: "Mathew Howard" <mhoward...@gmail.com <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>>
To: "af" <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Sent: 3/31/2018 9:48:52 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

From what I've seen, most people are just registering every radio for 
the entire 50mhz, so it's not like you can use the information in the 
database to actually coordinate anything (and I think that really is 
the best option in the current climate, since there's a good chance 
your going to have to change channels at some point because of 
newcomers to the area)... then there are also the people that never 
bother to register anything, or register a few radios and then give 
up because it's too much work...


I'm aware of at least four other companies in our general area that 
have AP/base stations registered, but last I checked only one of them 
had any customer locations registered... for some reason, a lot of 
people seem to be under the Impression that you only need to register 
the AP (or eNB, in LTE speak), but that's not the case and never was 
- everything is supposed to be registered (there is an exception for 
mobile devices, but that doesn't apply to anything a WISP would be 
using).


On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 6:05 PM, David Coudron 
<david.coud...@advantenon.com <mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> 
wrote:


You need to register the stations, but there is no requirement to
coordinate.   However, depending on how many folks are in your
area it still might be a good idea to make sure they are up to
date on all their registrations.   Sometimes we find folks don’t
always update their information on the FCC site and you can still
run into interference.   If there are too many folks in the area,
it is easier to find open channels and then register.

David Coudron

*From:* Af <af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>>
*On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
*Sent:* Saturday, March 31, 2018 1:57 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

I have a NN license but have never used it, what is the best
practice/process for registering a base when you have other
operators with bases registered nearby? Do you need to coordinate
anything?

I'm looking at deploying in a small town but 2-3 other operators
have bases already registered in the area, can I still deploy?
Obviously need to do a SA before anything

Thanks,

TJ




--

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

[Adam Moffett]

The problem is that it was impractical to register every subscriber 
location.  I registered 60 locations one night and it took me several 
hours.  There was no way I was going to invest that much labor into 
registrations.  They needed both a bulk registration method and to make 
their registration page respond faster.



That said, I have had coordination conversations with another 
registrant.  It was friendly, but it was only marginally productive.  We 
were not able to agree on TDD ratios or a plan for dividing the 
available 50mhz, so basically we kept doing our own thing and resolving 
interference cases individually as they came up.  It sounds like some of 
you have bad neighbors.




-- Original Message --
From: "Mathew Howard" <mhoward...@gmail.com>
To: "af" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 3/31/2018 9:48:52 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

From what I've seen, most people are just registering every radio for 
the entire 50mhz, so it's not like you can use the information in the 
database to actually coordinate anything (and I think that really is 
the best option in the current climate, since there's a good chance 
your going to have to change channels at some point because of 
newcomers to the area)... then there are also the people that never 
bother to register anything, or register a few radios and then give up 
because it's too much work...


I'm aware of at least four other companies in our general area that 
have AP/base stations registered, but last I checked only one of them 
had any customer locations registered... for some reason, a lot of 
people seem to be under the Impression that you only need to register 
the AP (or eNB, in LTE speak), but that's not the case and never was - 
everything is supposed to be registered (there is an exception for 
mobile devices, but that doesn't apply to anything a WISP would be 
using).


On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 6:05 PM, David Coudron 
<david.coud...@advantenon.com> wrote:
You need to register the stations, but there is no requirement to 
coordinate.   However, depending on how many folks are in your area it 
still might be a good idea to make sure they are up to date on all 
their registrations.   Sometimes we find folks don’t always update 
their information on the FCC site and you can still run into 
interference.   If there are too many folks in the area, it is easier 
to find open channels and then register.






David Coudron







From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2018 1:57 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration



I have a NN license but have never used it, what is the best 
practice/process for registering a base when you have other operators 
with bases registered nearby? Do you need to coordinate anything?




I'm looking at deploying in a small town but 2-3 other operators have 
bases already registered in the area, can I still deploy? Obviously 
need to do a SA before anything




Thanks,



TJ

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

[Mathew Howard]

>From what I've seen, most people are just registering every radio for the
entire 50mhz, so it's not like you can use the information in the database
to actually coordinate anything (and I think that really is the best option
in the current climate, since there's a good chance your going to have to
change channels at some point because of newcomers to the area)... then
there are also the people that never bother to register anything, or
register a few radios and then give up because it's too much work...

I'm aware of at least four other companies in our general area that have
AP/base stations registered, but last I checked only one of them had any
customer locations registered... for some reason, a lot of people seem to
be under the Impression that you only need to register the AP (or eNB, in
LTE speak), but that's not the case and never was - everything is supposed
to be registered (there is an exception for mobile devices, but that
doesn't apply to anything a WISP would be using).

On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 6:05 PM, David Coudron  wrote:

> You need to register the stations, but there is no requirement to
> coordinate.   However, depending on how many folks are in your area it
> still might be a good idea to make sure they are up to date on all their
> registrations.   Sometimes we find folks don’t always update their
> information on the FCC site and you can still run into interference.   If
> there are too many folks in the area, it is easier to find open channels
> and then register.
>
>
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af  *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 31, 2018 1:57 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration
>
>
>
> I have a NN license but have never used it, what is the best
> practice/process for registering a base when you have other operators with
> bases registered nearby? Do you need to coordinate anything?
>
>
>
> I'm looking at deploying in a small town but 2-3 other operators have
> bases already registered in the area, can I still deploy? Obviously need to
> do a SA before anything
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> TJ
>

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

[David Coudron]

You need to register the stations, but there is no requirement to coordinate.   
However, depending on how many folks are in your area it still might be a good 
idea to make sure they are up to date on all their registrations.   Sometimes 
we find folks don’t always update their information on the FCC site and you can 
still run into interference.   If there are too many folks in the area, it is 
easier to find open channels and then register.


David Coudron



From: Af  On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2018 1:57 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

I have a NN license but have never used it, what is the best practice/process 
for registering a base when you have other operators with bases registered 
nearby? Do you need to coordinate anything?

I'm looking at deploying in a small town but 2-3 other operators have bases 
already registered in the area, can I still deploy? Obviously need to do a SA 
before anything

Thanks,

TJ

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

[Mathew Howard]

Yeah, you just need to register it... I've never known anyone to try
coordinating anything, but at least the database gives you some idea of
what else your dealing with.

On Sat, Mar 31, 2018, 2:07 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 3/31/18 11:57, TJ Trout wrote:
> > I have a NN license but have never used it, what is the best
> > practice/process for registering a base when you have other operators
> > with bases registered nearby? Do you need to coordinate anything?
> >
>
>
> The NN license never really meant anything. It tried to be a database of
> people you should coordinate with, but there's zero enforcement for
> anything.
>
> The only real impact it had was properly registering everything before
> whatever the deadline was meant it will get grandfathered protection
> under the new SAS system. Anyone who didn't do the right thing back in
> the day is now shit out of luck on that.
>

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN base registration

[Seth Mattinen]

On 3/31/18 11:57, TJ Trout wrote:
I have a NN license but have never used it, what is the best 
practice/process for registering a base when you have other operators 
with bases registered nearby? Do you need to coordinate anything?





The NN license never really meant anything. It tried to be a database of 
people you should coordinate with, but there's zero enforcement for 
anything.


The only real impact it had was properly registering everything before 
whatever the deadline was meant it will get grandfathered protection 
under the new SAS system. Anyone who didn't do the right thing back in 
the day is now shit out of luck on that.