subject:"Re\: \[AFMUG\] Mikrotik Pros\/Cons and recomendations"

Level 4 does pretty much everything.  Level 5 and 6 enable 500/unlimited
(from 200) tunnels and more user manager sessions.
http://wiki.mikrotik.com/index.php?title=Manual:Licenseredirect=no#License_Levels

Is this 2008 or something?  I thought everyone had been using Mikrotik for
many years.

MT switches are not as good in any form as an HP switch from what I've
heard.

MT would be good for OSPF/BGP.

MT hardware is not MT software.  A good x86 box (OEM, Baltic, Titan, etc)
should have no problems.  Routerboards for $39 can have flaky ports.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 3:26 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
wrote:

 After poking around at many different brands, it seems Mikrotik is the
 right fit for our network and budget.

 I dont fully understand the licensing tiers

 Is there a sizing chart on these?

 Is the interface similar between the router models and the switch models?
 Are the mikrotik switches comparable to the HP procurve in reliability?

 It would be the bees knees to see out network more universal as far as
 management interfaces go, we have three purposes for routers:

 our upstream routers, which we have 2, will ultimately be running OSPF
 internally and BGP externally (current thought) 200mbps-1gbps projected
 need through the next couple of years.

 Our network/POP routers ranging from 1 customer at a POP to 150

 A residential solution comparable to the UBNT AirRouters (1-25mbps rate
 plans) wifi capable.

 If the switches have similar interfaces, we would look toward replacing a
 combination of UBNT toughswitch POE, and a variety of HP procurves from
 1810G to 2510G and their other POE models.



 I note alot of discussion regarding MT ethernet negotiation flakiness, how
 much of an impact does this present? Right now we have imagestream and
 fortigate on the network, and have zero issues with that.


 The decision to go toward mikrotik is primarily based on cost and
 community support availability within the industry. (this consideration has
 alot to do with a single point of administrative failure in only having one
 person, me, training to design, maintain, support, and grow the network, in
 the event i became absent from the picture) The winbox interface and
 feature availability within was also a primary consideration for support
 staff.

 I would like to her from people entrenched in MT who love/hate it, anybody
 who turned their back on it, and anybody who moved toward it.



 --
 If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
 as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

2015-03-30 Thread Bill Prince

We do 99% of what we need on MT level 4. You only need level 5 or 6 if 
you have a bunch of tunnels. Get what you need mainly based on 
throughput and simultaneous connections. A lowly RB493 easily handles 
tens of thousands simultaneous connections, and a X86 router probably 
another order of magnitude. I think the typical connection table on any 
of the newer boards can get up around 500,000 connections.


If you have solar powered sites, I think that MT is the only game in town.

I've had limited success with their switches, and I do not consider them 
a robust solution. So if you need decent switches in your 
infrastructure, and you like your Procurves, stick with them. That said, 
I have stuck in quite a few routerboards and used them as switches no 
problem.


bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com

On 3/30/2015 12:26 PM, That One Guy wrote:
After poking around at many different brands, it seems Mikrotik is the 
right fit for our network and budget.


I dont fully understand the licensing tiers

Is there a sizing chart on these?

Is the interface similar between the router models and the switch 
models? Are the mikrotik switches comparable to the HP procurve in 
reliability?


It would be the bees knees to see out network more universal as far as 
management interfaces go, we have three purposes for routers:


our upstream routers, which we have 2, will ultimately be running OSPF 
internally and BGP externally (current thought) 200mbps-1gbps 
projected need through the next couple of years.


Our network/POP routers ranging from 1 customer at a POP to 150

A residential solution comparable to the UBNT AirRouters (1-25mbps 
rate plans) wifi capable.


If the switches have similar interfaces, we would look toward 
replacing a combination of UBNT toughswitch POE, and a variety of HP 
procurves from 1810G to 2510G and their other POE models.




I note alot of discussion regarding MT ethernet negotiation flakiness, 
how much of an impact does this present? Right now we have imagestream 
and fortigate on the network, and have zero issues with that.



The decision to go toward mikrotik is primarily based on cost and 
community support availability within the industry. (this 
consideration has alot to do with a single point of administrative 
failure in only having one person, me, training to design, maintain, 
support, and grow the network, in the event i became absent from the 
picture) The winbox interface and feature availability within was also 
a primary consideration for support staff.


I would like to her from people entrenched in MT who love/hate it, 
anybody who turned their back on it, and anybody who moved toward it.




--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

2015-03-30 Thread Gabriel Pike

We use Mikrotiks for all of our routers. We have a similar set up to the one 
you describe. I have 2 WAN routers doing BGP and iBGP between them with OSPF 
for internal routing. I really like Mikrotiks. I was trained with Cisco 
products in College but Mikrotiks were an easy transition. We use mostly RB 
1100AHx2’s but I am about to upgrade our core routers to CCR series. We take in 
300Mbps through both internet feeds and I am starting to max the CPU of the 
1100AHX2’s.

 

 

Regards,

 

Gabriel Pike

Network Support and Engineering

MTCNA

 http://dmcibb.net/ DMCI Broadband, LLC

gabrielp...@dmcibb.net

 

877.936.2422

Ext. 103

 

 

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 4:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

 

Generally you use x86 for the purchase of a license.  That's where they started 
their business.  Baltic/Titan/etc have their suggested models which are just 
x86 machines with RouterOS on them already.  I'd use these 1000x before I 
touched ImageStream at tower sites.




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 4:00 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:

Are you guys saying, you purchase the router OS and put it on third party 
hardware over using their hardware? What hardware do you find yourselves using, 
if not routerboard?

 

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Bill Prince part15...@gmail.com wrote:

We do 99% of what we need on MT level 4. You only need level 5 or 6 if you have 
a bunch of tunnels. Get what you need mainly based on throughput and 
simultaneous connections. A lowly RB493 easily handles tens of thousands 
simultaneous connections, and a X86 router probably another order of magnitude. 
I think the typical connection table on any of the newer boards can get up 
around 500,000 connections.

If you have solar powered sites, I think that MT is the only game in town.

I've had limited success with their switches, and I do not consider them a 
robust solution. So if you need decent switches in your infrastructure, and you 
like your Procurves, stick with them. That said, I have stuck in quite a few 
routerboards and used them as switches no problem.




bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
 

On 3/30/2015 12:26 PM, That One Guy wrote:

After poking around at many different brands, it seems Mikrotik is the right 
fit for our network and budget. 

 

I dont fully understand the licensing tiers

 

Is there a sizing chart on these? 

 

Is the interface similar between the router models and the switch models? Are 
the mikrotik switches comparable to the HP procurve in reliability?

 

It would be the bees knees to see out network more universal as far as 
management interfaces go, we have three purposes for routers:

 

our upstream routers, which we have 2, will ultimately be running OSPF 
internally and BGP externally (current thought) 200mbps-1gbps projected need 
through the next couple of years.

 

Our network/POP routers ranging from 1 customer at a POP to 150

 

A residential solution comparable to the UBNT AirRouters (1-25mbps rate plans) 
wifi capable.

 

If the switches have similar interfaces, we would look toward replacing a 
combination of UBNT toughswitch POE, and a variety of HP procurves from 1810G 
to 2510G and their other POE models.

 

 

 

I note alot of discussion regarding MT ethernet negotiation flakiness, how much 
of an impact does this present? Right now we have imagestream and fortigate on 
the network, and have zero issues with that.

 

 

The decision to go toward mikrotik is primarily based on cost and community 
support availability within the industry. (this consideration has alot to do 
with a single point of administrative failure in only having one person, me, 
training to design, maintain, support, and grow the network, in the event i 
became absent from the picture) The winbox interface and feature availability 
within was also a primary consideration for support staff.

 

I would like to her from people entrenched in MT who love/hate it, anybody who 
turned their back on it, and anybody who moved toward it.

 




 

-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

 





 

-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

2015-03-30 Thread Paul McCall

Steve…. Do you trust me?   Mikrotik all the way, just DO  IT!  …
routerboard.com has all the models.

slicker than owl-snot on linoleum floor ☺One of the best things we ever did 
for our network

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of That One Guy
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 3:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

After poking around at many different brands, it seems Mikrotik is the right 
fit for our network and budget.

I dont fully understand the licensing tiers

Is there a sizing chart on these?

Is the interface similar between the router models and the switch models? Are 
the mikrotik switches comparable to the HP procurve in reliability?

It would be the bees knees to see out network more universal as far as 
management interfaces go, we have three purposes for routers:

our upstream routers, which we have 2, will ultimately be running OSPF 
internally and BGP externally (current thought) 200mbps-1gbps projected need 
through the next couple of years.

Our network/POP routers ranging from 1 customer at a POP to 150

A residential solution comparable to the UBNT AirRouters (1-25mbps rate plans) 
wifi capable.

If the switches have similar interfaces, we would look toward replacing a 
combination of UBNT toughswitch POE, and a variety of HP procurves from 1810G 
to 2510G and their other POE models.

I note alot of discussion regarding MT ethernet negotiation flakiness, how much 
of an impact does this present? Right now we have imagestream and fortigate on 
the network, and have zero issues with that.

The decision to go toward mikrotik is primarily based on cost and community 
support availability within the industry. (this consideration has alot to do 
with a single point of administrative failure in only having one person, me, 
training to design, maintain, support, and grow the network, in the event i 
became absent from the picture) The winbox interface and feature availability 
within was also a primary consideration for support staff.

I would like to her from people entrenched in MT who love/hate it, anybody who 
turned their back on it, and anybody who moved toward it.

--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

Pricewise per site POP router, we have always been at the 4-700 dollar
range between the old imagestreams and the Fortigates, of course that was
before the funds got pulled out from under me. Apparently the powers that
be have revalued this and are putting the funds on the carrot sticks. This
is a current decision we are still mulling over as a Powercode user, this
puts us at a price rage where we can do BMUs at each POP, which from they
powercode management and accounting perspective is the way to go, but it
robs us of flexibility and toolsets at the site decisions.

At the price-points with MT, the specs annihilate Fortigate and Imagestream
(guessing on imagestrem since we no longer do business with them)

I dont know the difference between the RB and CCR lines, is this a
transition, to where it will all be CCR in the future, or just separate
featuresets and levels of robustness?

I like that MT software is available stand alone, because we can set up a
virtual lab for a decent price, where other vendors we could not.

Paul, I trust, he never rips us off on repairs.



On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Paul McCall pa...@pdmnet.net wrote:

  Steve…. Do you trust me?   Mikrotik all the way, just DO  IT!  …
 routerboard.com has all the models.



 slicker than owl-snot on linoleum floor JOne of the best things we
 ever did for our network



 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *That One Guy
 *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 3:27 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations



 After poking around at many different brands, it seems Mikrotik is the
 right fit for our network and budget.



 I dont fully understand the licensing tiers



 Is there a sizing chart on these?



 Is the interface similar between the router models and the switch models?
 Are the mikrotik switches comparable to the HP procurve in reliability?



 It would be the bees knees to see out network more universal as far as
 management interfaces go, we have three purposes for routers:



 our upstream routers, which we have 2, will ultimately be running OSPF
 internally and BGP externally (current thought) 200mbps-1gbps projected
 need through the next couple of years.



 Our network/POP routers ranging from 1 customer at a POP to 150



 A residential solution comparable to the UBNT AirRouters (1-25mbps rate
 plans) wifi capable.



 If the switches have similar interfaces, we would look toward replacing a
 combination of UBNT toughswitch POE, and a variety of HP procurves from
 1810G to 2510G and their other POE models.







 I note alot of discussion regarding MT ethernet negotiation flakiness, how
 much of an impact does this present? Right now we have imagestream and
 fortigate on the network, and have zero issues with that.





 The decision to go toward mikrotik is primarily based on cost and
 community support availability within the industry. (this consideration has
 alot to do with a single point of administrative failure in only having one
 person, me, training to design, maintain, support, and grow the network, in
 the event i became absent from the picture) The winbox interface and
 feature availability within was also a primary consideration for support
 staff.



 I would like to her from people entrenched in MT who love/hate it, anybody
 who turned their back on it, and anybody who moved toward it.






 --

 If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
 as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.




-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

Generally you use x86 for the purchase of a license.  That's where they
started their business.  Baltic/Titan/etc have their suggested models
which are just x86 machines with RouterOS on them already.  I'd use these
1000x before I touched ImageStream at tower sites.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 4:00 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Are you guys saying, you purchase the router OS and put it on third party
 hardware over using their hardware? What hardware do you find yourselves
 using, if not routerboard?

 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Bill Prince part15...@gmail.com wrote:

  We do 99% of what we need on MT level 4. You only need level 5 or 6 if
 you have a bunch of tunnels. Get what you need mainly based on throughput
 and simultaneous connections. A lowly RB493 easily handles tens of
 thousands simultaneous connections, and a X86 router probably another order
 of magnitude. I think the typical connection table on any of the newer
 boards can get up around 500,000 connections.

 If you have solar powered sites, I think that MT is the only game in town.

 I've had limited success with their switches, and I do not consider them
 a robust solution. So if you need decent switches in your infrastructure,
 and you like your Procurves, stick with them. That said, I have stuck in
 quite a few routerboards and used them as switches no problem.

 bp
 part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com


 On 3/30/2015 12:26 PM, That One Guy wrote:

 After poking around at many different brands, it seems Mikrotik is the
 right fit for our network and budget.

  I dont fully understand the licensing tiers

  Is there a sizing chart on these?

  Is the interface similar between the router models and the switch
 models? Are the mikrotik switches comparable to the HP procurve in
 reliability?

  It would be the bees knees to see out network more universal as far as
 management interfaces go, we have three purposes for routers:

  our upstream routers, which we have 2, will ultimately be running OSPF
 internally and BGP externally (current thought) 200mbps-1gbps projected
 need through the next couple of years.

  Our network/POP routers ranging from 1 customer at a POP to 150

  A residential solution comparable to the UBNT AirRouters (1-25mbps rate
 plans) wifi capable.

  If the switches have similar interfaces, we would look toward replacing
 a combination of UBNT toughswitch POE, and a variety of HP procurves from
 1810G to 2510G and their other POE models.



  I note alot of discussion regarding MT ethernet negotiation flakiness,
 how much of an impact does this present? Right now we have imagestream and
 fortigate on the network, and have zero issues with that.


  The decision to go toward mikrotik is primarily based on cost and
 community support availability within the industry. (this consideration has
 alot to do with a single point of administrative failure in only having one
 person, me, training to design, maintain, support, and grow the network, in
 the event i became absent from the picture) The winbox interface and
 feature availability within was also a primary consideration for support
 staff.

  I would like to her from people entrenched in MT who love/hate it,
 anybody who turned their back on it, and anybody who moved toward it.



  --
   If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
 team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.





 --
 If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
 as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

Baltic's x86:
http://www.balticnetworks.com/manufacturers/maxxwave/routermaxx-routers-powered-by-mikrotik.html

Search MikroNOC here: www.titanwirelessonline.com/category-s/232.htm

They have boards and cases ala cate and of course the rb2011 has a board,
indoor, rack option - a great product depending on size.
http://routerboard.com/

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 4:22 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
wrote:

Now Im thoroughly confused, do you happen to have a link to some of those
products?

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 3:04 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
wrote:

Generally you use x86 for the purchase of a license. That's where they
started their business. Baltic/Titan/etc have their suggested models
which are just x86 machines with RouterOS on them already. I'd use these
1000x before I touched ImageStream at tower sites.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 4:00 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
wrote:

Are you guys saying, you purchase the router OS and put it on third
party hardware over using their hardware? What hardware do you find
yourselves using, if not routerboard?

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Bill Prince part15...@gmail.com
wrote:

We do 99% of what we need on MT level 4. You only need level 5 or 6 if
you have a bunch of tunnels. Get what you need mainly based on throughput
and simultaneous connections. A lowly RB493 easily handles tens of
thousands simultaneous connections, and a X86 router probably another order
of magnitude. I think the typical connection table on any of the newer
boards can get up around 500,000 connections.

If you have solar powered sites, I think that MT is the only game in
town.

I've had limited success with their switches, and I do not consider
them a robust solution. So if you need decent switches in your
infrastructure, and you like your Procurves, stick with them. That said, I
have stuck in quite a few routerboards and used them as switches no
problem.

bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com

On 3/30/2015 12:26 PM, That One Guy wrote:

After poking around at many different brands, it seems Mikrotik is the
right fit for our network and budget.

I dont fully understand the licensing tiers

Is there a sizing chart on these?

Is the interface similar between the router models and the switch
models? Are the mikrotik switches comparable to the HP procurve in
reliability?

It would be the bees knees to see out network more universal as far
as management interfaces go, we have three purposes for routers:

our upstream routers, which we have 2, will ultimately be running
OSPF internally and BGP externally (current thought) 200mbps-1gbps
projected need through the next couple of years.

Our network/POP routers ranging from 1 customer at a POP to 150

A residential solution comparable to the UBNT AirRouters (1-25mbps
rate plans) wifi capable.

If the switches have similar interfaces, we would look toward
replacing a combination of UBNT toughswitch POE, and a variety of HP
procurves from 1810G to 2510G and their other POE models.

I note alot of discussion regarding MT ethernet negotiation
flakiness, how much of an impact does this present? Right now we have
imagestream and fortigate on the network, and have zero issues with that.

The decision to go toward mikrotik is primarily based on cost and
community support availability within the industry. (this consideration has
alot to do with a single point of administrative failure in only having one
person, me, training to design, maintain, support, and grow the network, in
the event i became absent from the picture) The winbox interface and
feature availability within was also a primary consideration for support
staff.

I would like to her from people entrenched in MT who love/hate it,
anybody who turned their back on it, and anybody who moved toward it.

--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

Are you guys saying, you purchase the router OS and put it on third party
hardware over using their hardware? What hardware do you find yourselves
using, if not routerboard?

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Bill Prince part15...@gmail.com wrote:

  We do 99% of what we need on MT level 4. You only need level 5 or 6 if
 you have a bunch of tunnels. Get what you need mainly based on throughput
 and simultaneous connections. A lowly RB493 easily handles tens of
 thousands simultaneous connections, and a X86 router probably another order
 of magnitude. I think the typical connection table on any of the newer
 boards can get up around 500,000 connections.

 If you have solar powered sites, I think that MT is the only game in town.

 I've had limited success with their switches, and I do not consider them a
 robust solution. So if you need decent switches in your infrastructure, and
 you like your Procurves, stick with them. That said, I have stuck in quite
 a few routerboards and used them as switches no problem.

 bp
 part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com


 On 3/30/2015 12:26 PM, That One Guy wrote:

 After poking around at many different brands, it seems Mikrotik is the
 right fit for our network and budget.

  I dont fully understand the licensing tiers

  Is there a sizing chart on these?

  Is the interface similar between the router models and the switch
 models? Are the mikrotik switches comparable to the HP procurve in
 reliability?

  It would be the bees knees to see out network more universal as far as
 management interfaces go, we have three purposes for routers:

  our upstream routers, which we have 2, will ultimately be running OSPF
 internally and BGP externally (current thought) 200mbps-1gbps projected
 need through the next couple of years.

  Our network/POP routers ranging from 1 customer at a POP to 150

  A residential solution comparable to the UBNT AirRouters (1-25mbps rate
 plans) wifi capable.

  If the switches have similar interfaces, we would look toward replacing
 a combination of UBNT toughswitch POE, and a variety of HP procurves from
 1810G to 2510G and their other POE models.



  I note alot of discussion regarding MT ethernet negotiation flakiness,
 how much of an impact does this present? Right now we have imagestream and
 fortigate on the network, and have zero issues with that.


  The decision to go toward mikrotik is primarily based on cost and
 community support availability within the industry. (this consideration has
 alot to do with a single point of administrative failure in only having one
 person, me, training to design, maintain, support, and grow the network, in
 the event i became absent from the picture) The winbox interface and
 feature availability within was also a primary consideration for support
 staff.

  I would like to her from people entrenched in MT who love/hate it,
 anybody who turned their back on it, and anybody who moved toward it.



  --
   If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
 team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.





-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

2015-03-30 Thread Butch Evans


On 03/30/2015 02:26 PM, That One Guy wrote:

After poking around at many different brands, it seems Mikrotik is the
right fit for our network and budget.


LOTS of good questions here.  My thoughts inline.


I dont fully understand the licensing tiers


For the most part, if you are purchasing the appropriate routerboard 
product (CCR vs rb750), the right license will be preinstalled.  The 
licensing is interesting mostly if you are installing on an X86 router. 
 For the most part, Level 4 is the most appropriate choice, unless you 
are running large hotspots or aggregating your pppoe sessions to a 
single router.  I can give a more detailed answer with more specific 
details of your network requirements.



Is there a sizing chart on these?


Not really.  Here's the easiest way to say this, though:
RB7XX and RB9XX are CPE
RB1100 (and similar), along with CCR are intended to be infrastructure.
RB450 works well as a tower router, but the cost difference to move to 
an 1100 should be considered carefully, as the 1100 is a much more 
powerful solution and has the added benefit of more ethernet ports.



Is the interface similar between the router models and the switch
models? Are the mikrotik switches comparable to the HP procurve in
reliability?


CRS devices run the exact same software as the routers, so the interface 
is exactly the same.  If you are going to use them in switched mode, 
however, I am a fan of HP and even secondary market Cisco for switching.



It would be the bees knees to see out network more universal as far as
management interfaces go, we have three purposes for routers:

our upstream routers, which we have 2, will ultimately be running OSPF
internally and BGP externally (current thought) 200mbps-1gbps projected
need through the next couple of years.


Upstream - CCR or 1100ahX2 (minimum)


Our network/POP routers ranging from 1 customer at a POP to 150


RB450 or RB1100 would fit this need.  Depends mostly upon the port count 
requirement.  Also, the RB2100 series would work well here.  Any of 
these would handle this need easily.



A residential solution comparable to the UBNT AirRouters (1-25mbps rate
plans) wifi capable.


RB9XX is intended for this purpose.  As much a fan as I am for RouterOS, 
I cannot say that MT products compare for wireless on an equal plain 
with UBNT.  One possible solution would be something like the RB750 (or 
rb951) + Unifi for the wireless.  If the home is small enough to only 
need one AP, then the RB951 is easily enough.  Specifically, the 
RB951-2n or the RB9511G-2HnD (higher power output). For larger homes, 
the RB2100-2HnD-IN is better still.



If the switches have similar interfaces, we would look toward replacing
a combination of UBNT toughswitch POE, and a variety of HP procurves
from 1810G to 2510G and their other POE models.


If you do much with VLANs, then I'd (personally) stick with HP or Cisco.


I note alot of discussion regarding MT ethernet negotiation flakiness,
how much of an impact does this present? Right now we have imagestream
and fortigate on the network, and have zero issues with that.


This is pretty specific to certain routerboard models and other gear.  I 
am a fan of hard coding all interfaces on infrastructure gear, so this 
is not really an issue if you do things the right way (yes, I know 
this can start a religious war).  My experience is that this does not 
happen with better ethernet chipsets, such as you would install in an 
X86 device.



I would like to her from people entrenched in MT who love/hate it,
anybody who turned their back on it, and anybody who moved toward it.


As you know, I am a big fan of RouterOS, but only where it makes sense.

--
Butch Evans
702-537-0979
Network Support and Engineering
http://store.wispgear.net/
http://www.butchevans.com/

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

RB 1100AHx2 was what I was looking at, on the edge, our current bigger pipe
is only 300mbps today, so that would seem sufficient based on your
description of use, since the other is smaller, at this price migrating it
down into the network if we hit growth quickly wouldnt be a dealbreaker.
Its unlikely we would be doing much beyond routing, no shaping or anything
of that nature anywhere in the near term.

Josh hating on the hardware does concern me though.

We had dicked around with a few RB 750 in the past for a couple test cases,
looking more toward replacing wired Dlinks for residential customers, but
had to use it in a pinch at a small site, never saw any issue and liked the
toolsets. Is there a comparable unit to the Air Routers for a residential
solution (we normally provide an air router unless the customer wants to
use their own, we bridge the CPE radios on all but a handful of customers)
The two main things we prefer out of the Air router is the ability to
disable the reset button, and the wireless coverage is sufficient for a
free consumer router) would have to hit the same pricepoint as the
airrouter. Torch at the customer is a selling point though. out of
curiousity, one thing we couldnt do with air router was tiered users on the
device. We wanted to be able to give the customer a login where they can do
whatever they want with the exception of changing the WAN config away from
DHCP, or changing our remote access to the device. can you do this in MT?



On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Gabriel Pike gabriel.wi...@dmcibb.net
wrote:

 We use Mikrotiks for all of our routers. We have a similar set up to the
 one you describe. I have 2 WAN routers doing BGP and iBGP between them with
 OSPF for internal routing. I really like Mikrotiks. I was trained with
 Cisco products in College but Mikrotiks were an easy transition. We use
 mostly RB 1100AHx2’s but I am about to upgrade our core routers to CCR
 series. We take in 300Mbps through both internet feeds and I am starting to
 max the CPU of the 1100AHX2’s.





 Regards,



 Gabriel Pike

 Network Support and Engineering

 MTCNA

 DMCI Broadband, LLC http://dmcibb.net/

 gabrielp...@dmcibb.net



 877.936.2422

 Ext. 103









 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
 *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 4:04 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations



 Generally you use x86 for the purchase of a license.  That's where they
 started their business.  Baltic/Titan/etc have their suggested models
 which are just x86 machines with RouterOS on them already.  I'd use these
 1000x before I touched ImageStream at tower sites.




 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373



 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 4:00 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Are you guys saying, you purchase the router OS and put it on third party
 hardware over using their hardware? What hardware do you find yourselves
 using, if not routerboard?



 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Bill Prince part15...@gmail.com wrote:

 We do 99% of what we need on MT level 4. You only need level 5 or 6 if you
 have a bunch of tunnels. Get what you need mainly based on throughput and
 simultaneous connections. A lowly RB493 easily handles tens of thousands
 simultaneous connections, and a X86 router probably another order of
 magnitude. I think the typical connection table on any of the newer boards
 can get up around 500,000 connections.

 If you have solar powered sites, I think that MT is the only game in town.

 I've had limited success with their switches, and I do not consider them a
 robust solution. So if you need decent switches in your infrastructure, and
 you like your Procurves, stick with them. That said, I have stuck in quite
 a few routerboards and used them as switches no problem.


 bp

 part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com



 On 3/30/2015 12:26 PM, That One Guy wrote:

 After poking around at many different brands, it seems Mikrotik is the
 right fit for our network and budget.



 I dont fully understand the licensing tiers



 Is there a sizing chart on these?



 Is the interface similar between the router models and the switch models?
 Are the mikrotik switches comparable to the HP procurve in reliability?



 It would be the bees knees to see out network more universal as far as
 management interfaces go, we have three purposes for routers:



 our upstream routers, which we have 2, will ultimately be running OSPF
 internally and BGP externally (current thought) 200mbps-1gbps projected
 need through the next couple of years.



 Our network/POP routers ranging from 1 customer at a POP to 150



 A residential solution comparable to the UBNT AirRouters (1-25mbps rate
 plans) wifi capable.



 If the switches have similar interfaces, we would look toward replacing a
 combination of UBNT toughswitch POE, and a variety of HP procurves from
 1810G to 2510G

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

2015-03-30 Thread Gabriel Pike

In answer to a separate instance in the router for customers, yes. Metarouter 
is the feature. 

 

http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Metarouter

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of That One Guy
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 5:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

 

RB 1100AHx2 was what I was looking at, on the edge, our current bigger pipe is 
only 300mbps today, so that would seem sufficient based on your description of 
use, since the other is smaller, at this price migrating it down into the 
network if we hit growth quickly wouldnt be a dealbreaker. Its unlikely we 
would be doing much beyond routing, no shaping or anything of that nature 
anywhere in the near term.

 

Josh hating on the hardware does concern me though.

 

We had dicked around with a few RB 750 in the past for a couple test cases, 
looking more toward replacing wired Dlinks for residential customers, but had 
to use it in a pinch at a small site, never saw any issue and liked the 
toolsets. Is there a comparable unit to the Air Routers for a residential 
solution (we normally provide an air router unless the customer wants to use 
their own, we bridge the CPE radios on all but a handful of customers) The two 
main things we prefer out of the Air router is the ability to disable the reset 
button, and the wireless coverage is sufficient for a free consumer router) 
would have to hit the same pricepoint as the airrouter. Torch at the customer 
is a selling point though. out of curiousity, one thing we couldnt do with air 
router was tiered users on the device. We wanted to be able to give the 
customer a login where they can do whatever they want with the exception of 
changing the WAN config away from DHCP, or changing our remote access to the 
device. can you do this in MT?

 

 

 

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Gabriel Pike gabriel.wi...@dmcibb.net wrote:

We use Mikrotiks for all of our routers. We have a similar set up to the one 
you describe. I have 2 WAN routers doing BGP and iBGP between them with OSPF 
for internal routing. I really like Mikrotiks. I was trained with Cisco 
products in College but Mikrotiks were an easy transition. We use mostly RB 
1100AHx2’s but I am about to upgrade our core routers to CCR series. We take in 
300Mbps through both internet feeds and I am starting to max the CPU of the 
1100AHX2’s.

 

 

Regards,

 

Gabriel Pike

Network Support and Engineering

MTCNA

DMCI Broadband, LLC http://dmcibb.net/ 

gabrielp...@dmcibb.net

 

877.936.2422

Ext. 103

 

 

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 4:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

 

Generally you use x86 for the purchase of a license.  That's where they started 
their business.  Baltic/Titan/etc have their suggested models which are just 
x86 machines with RouterOS on them already.  I'd use these 1000x before I 
touched ImageStream at tower sites.




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 4:00 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:

Are you guys saying, you purchase the router OS and put it on third party 
hardware over using their hardware? What hardware do you find yourselves using, 
if not routerboard?

 

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Bill Prince part15...@gmail.com wrote:

We do 99% of what we need on MT level 4. You only need level 5 or 6 if you have 
a bunch of tunnels. Get what you need mainly based on throughput and 
simultaneous connections. A lowly RB493 easily handles tens of thousands 
simultaneous connections, and a X86 router probably another order of magnitude. 
I think the typical connection table on any of the newer boards can get up 
around 500,000 connections.

If you have solar powered sites, I think that MT is the only game in town.

I've had limited success with their switches, and I do not consider them a 
robust solution. So if you need decent switches in your infrastructure, and you 
like your Procurves, stick with them. That said, I have stuck in quite a few 
routerboards and used them as switches no problem.



bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
 

On 3/30/2015 12:26 PM, That One Guy wrote:

After poking around at many different brands, it seems Mikrotik is the right 
fit for our network and budget. 

 

I dont fully understand the licensing tiers

 

Is there a sizing chart on these? 

 

Is the interface similar between the router models and the switch models? Are 
the mikrotik switches comparable to the HP procurve in reliability?

 

It would be the bees knees to see out network more universal as far as 
management interfaces go, we have three purposes for routers:

 

our upstream routers, which we have 2, will ultimately be running OSPF 
internally and BGP externally (current thought) 200mbps-1gbps projected need 
through the next

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

2015-03-30 Thread Dennis Burgess

Steve,

I would suggest listening to the people here as well as maybe getting a WISP 
consulting company to steer you in the right direction . Also the MT vendor 
should be able to give you all of the recommendations that you need on 
hardware. . Lots of options, however, you may be able to get off with less 
expensive routers but that’s depends on what you are doing, and/or what you are 
planning for.



Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc.
den...@linktechs.netmailto:den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – 
www.linktechs.nethttp://www.linktechs.net

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of That One Guy
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 2:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

After poking around at many different brands, it seems Mikrotik is the right 
fit for our network and budget.

I dont fully understand the licensing tiers

Is there a sizing chart on these?

Is the interface similar between the router models and the switch models? Are 
the mikrotik switches comparable to the HP procurve in reliability?

It would be the bees knees to see out network more universal as far as 
management interfaces go, we have three purposes for routers:

our upstream routers, which we have 2, will ultimately be running OSPF 
internally and BGP externally (current thought) 200mbps-1gbps projected need 
through the next couple of years.

Our network/POP routers ranging from 1 customer at a POP to 150

A residential solution comparable to the UBNT AirRouters (1-25mbps rate plans) 
wifi capable.

If the switches have similar interfaces, we would look toward replacing a 
combination of UBNT toughswitch POE, and a variety of HP procurves from 1810G 
to 2510G and their other POE models.



I note alot of discussion regarding MT ethernet negotiation flakiness, how much 
of an impact does this present? Right now we have imagestream and fortigate on 
the network, and have zero issues with that.


The decision to go toward mikrotik is primarily based on cost and community 
support availability within the industry. (this consideration has alot to do 
with a single point of administrative failure in only having one person, me, 
training to design, maintain, support, and grow the network, in the event i 
became absent from the picture) The winbox interface and feature availability 
within was also a primary consideration for support staff.

I would like to her from people entrenched in MT who love/hate it, anybody who 
turned their back on it, and anybody who moved toward it.



--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

2015-03-30 Thread Ken Hohhof

I haven’t had any failures with RB951, we do use the G version FWIW.

I’ve had 2 out-of-box failures with RB2011, one the CPU heatsink was rattling 
around inside (there was a metal shaving under the sticky tape), another had a 
dead port.

CRS125 is essentially the same CPU as RB2011, more ports and all gigabit, if 
you are using it as a 1U tower router and don’t need WiFi.  RB2011 is smaller 
and less expensive.

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 4:25 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

My last employer was providing AIrRouters for customer premesis.  This employer 
is using RB951.  I think there are more DOA's and early failures with the 
RB951, or at least the same.

So yeah, you get what you pay for.  It's like that Russian guy said in 
Armageddon:  American component, Russian componentall made in Taiwan.

RB2011 is pretty much the Swiss Army knife of routers.  CCR has lots of cajones 
(up to 32!).  951 is meh.  The little switches that run SwitchOS are meh.  

The CRS switches are nice because you get the same user interface as the 
routers, but I find I have to keep reminding people that they are a lousy 
router and don't use them as a router.  Configure it as a switch and you have 
wire speed on every port.  Configure it like a router and you have a 450 with 
lots of ports.



On 3/30/2015 5:06 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

  Hating? No!  Just don't expect a $39 Routerboard to be as durable as your 
$1000 ImageStream. 

  The rb2011 rocks.  I've got nothing but good things to say about it.

  The 100s and 500s from years and years back kind of irritated me.  The 400s 
have been running for years, though, and have been fantastic!


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 5:02 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com 
wrote:

RB 1100AHx2 was what I was looking at, on the edge, our current bigger pipe 
is only 300mbps today, so that would seem sufficient based on your description 
of use, since the other is smaller, at this price migrating it down into the 
network if we hit growth quickly wouldnt be a dealbreaker. Its unlikely we 
would be doing much beyond routing, no shaping or anything of that nature 
anywhere in the near term.



Josh hating on the hardware does concern me though.


We had dicked around with a few RB 750 in the past for a couple test cases, 
looking more toward replacing wired Dlinks for residential customers, but had 
to use it in a pinch at a small site, never saw any issue and liked the 
toolsets. Is there a comparable unit to the Air Routers for a residential 
solution (we normally provide an air router unless the customer wants to use 
their own, we bridge the CPE radios on all but a handful of customers) The two 
main things we prefer out of the Air router is the ability to disable the reset 
button, and the wireless coverage is sufficient for a free consumer router) 
would have to hit the same pricepoint as the airrouter. Torch at the customer 
is a selling point though. out of curiousity, one thing we couldnt do with air 
router was tiered users on the device. We wanted to be able to give the 
customer a login where they can do whatever they want with the exception of 
changing the WAN config away from DHCP, or changing our remote access to the 
device. can you do this in MT?





On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Gabriel Pike gabriel.wi...@dmcibb.net 
wrote:

  We use Mikrotiks for all of our routers. We have a similar set up to the 
one you describe. I have 2 WAN routers doing BGP and iBGP between them with 
OSPF for internal routing. I really like Mikrotiks. I was trained with Cisco 
products in College but Mikrotiks were an easy transition. We use mostly RB 
1100AHx2’s but I am about to upgrade our core routers to CCR series. We take in 
300Mbps through both internet feeds and I am starting to max the CPU of the 
1100AHX2’s.





  Regards,



  Gabriel Pike

  Network Support and Engineering

  MTCNA

  DMCI Broadband, LLC

  gabrielp...@dmcibb.net



  877.936.2422

  Ext. 103









  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
  Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 4:04 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations



  Generally you use x86 for the purchase of a license.  That's where they 
started their business.  Baltic/Titan/etc have their suggested models which 
are just x86 machines with RouterOS on them already.  I'd use these 1000x 
before I touched ImageStream at tower sites.





  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373



  On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 4:00 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com 
wrote:

  Are you guys saying, you purchase the router OS and put it on third party

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

2015-03-30 Thread Gilbert Gutierrez

I would also suggest getting a WISP consulting company involved if you 
have questions on what products to use. BGP can be an issue with full 
routes on a CCR due to the way RouterOS is designed with that processor. 
x86 processor handles BGP great. With that being said, I have over a 
Gigabit of traffic flowing over some CCR routers with full routing 
tables from 2 providers and it works fine (for well over a year). I have 
a third provider with one of Dennis' x86 machines and it also works great.


Gilbert T. Gutierrez, Jr.
Operations Manager
Phoenix Internet

On 3/30/2015 2:51 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote:


Steve,

I would suggest listening to the people here as well as maybe getting 
a WISP consulting company to steer you in the right direction . Also 
the MT vendor should be able to give you all of the recommendations 
that you need on hardware. . Lots of options, however, you may be able 
to get off with less expensive routers but that’s depends on what you 
are doing, and/or what you are planning for.


Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc.

den...@linktechs.net mailto:den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – 
www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *That One Guy
*Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 2:27 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

After poking around at many different brands, it seems Mikrotik is the 
right fit for our network and budget.


I dont fully understand the licensing tiers

Is there a sizing chart on these?

Is the interface similar between the router models and the switch 
models? Are the mikrotik switches comparable to the HP procurve in 
reliability?


It would be the bees knees to see out network more universal as far as 
management interfaces go, we have three purposes for routers:


our upstream routers, which we have 2, will ultimately be running OSPF 
internally and BGP externally (current thought) 200mbps-1gbps 
projected need through the next couple of years.


Our network/POP routers ranging from 1 customer at a POP to 150

A residential solution comparable to the UBNT AirRouters (1-25mbps 
rate plans) wifi capable.


If the switches have similar interfaces, we would look toward 
replacing a combination of UBNT toughswitch POE, and a variety of HP 
procurves from 1810G to 2510G and their other POE models.


I note alot of discussion regarding MT ethernet negotiation flakiness, 
how much of an impact does this present? Right now we have imagestream 
and fortigate on the network, and have zero issues with that.


The decision to go toward mikrotik is primarily based on cost and 
community support availability within the industry. (this 
consideration has alot to do with a single point of administrative 
failure in only having one person, me, training to design, maintain, 
support, and grow the network, in the event i became absent from the 
picture) The winbox interface and feature availability within was also 
a primary consideration for support staff.


I would like to her from people entrenched in MT who love/hate it, 
anybody who turned their back on it, and anybody who moved toward it.



--

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

2015-03-30 Thread Ty Featherling

I went from a big flat network to one with a Mikrotik at every tower and
the core run on Mikrotik CCR1036s, I love them all and have had only a few
weird issues that replacing hardware fixed. I just installed my first
CCR1009, the baby brother to the full power 1036 and I freaking love this
thing. I put it at a site that was running an RB450. At 80mbps peak usage I
was seeing 80+% CPU on the 450 and was dropping packets. With the CCR1009,
that same load sits at 2%CPU. And it is only $500. That might sound like a
lot but it will handle all I ever intend to throw at it for years and I
won't be concerned that it isn't enough router.

I have had zero issues with my CCRs and love my RB450, RB2011, RB493, and
even a few RB750s. Great stuff and super flexible. I can do things now that
I never could before and I have a swiss army knife at every tower that can
be used to creatively solve all kinds of problems without ever leaving my
desk.

-Ty

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 4:25 PM, Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:

  My last employer was providing AIrRouters for customer premesis.  This
 employer is using RB951.  I think there are more DOA's and early failures
 with the RB951, or at least the same.

 So yeah, you get what you pay for.  It's like that Russian guy said in
 Armageddon:  American component, Russian componentall made in Taiwan.

 RB2011 is pretty much the Swiss Army knife of routers.  CCR has lots of
 cajones (up to 32!).  951 is meh.  The little switches that run SwitchOS
 are meh.

 The CRS switches are nice because you get the same user interface as the
 routers, but I find I have to keep reminding people that they are a lousy
 router and don't use them as a router.  Configure it as a switch and you
 have wire speed on every port.  Configure it like a router and you have a
 450 with lots of ports.


 On 3/30/2015 5:06 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

 Hating? No!  Just don't expect a $39 Routerboard to be as durable as your
 $1000 ImageStream.

  The rb2011 rocks.  I've got nothing but good things to say about it.

  The 100s and 500s from years and years back kind of irritated me.  The
 400s have been running for years, though, and have been fantastic!


  Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 5:02 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 RB 1100AHx2 was what I was looking at, on the edge, our current bigger
 pipe is only 300mbps today, so that would seem sufficient based on your
 description of use, since the other is smaller, at this price migrating it
 down into the network if we hit growth quickly wouldnt be a dealbreaker.
 Its unlikely we would be doing much beyond routing, no shaping or anything
 of that nature anywhere in the near term.

  Josh hating on the hardware does concern me though.

  We had dicked around with a few RB 750 in the past for a couple test
 cases, looking more toward replacing wired Dlinks for residential
 customers, but had to use it in a pinch at a small site, never saw any
 issue and liked the toolsets. Is there a comparable unit to the Air Routers
 for a residential solution (we normally provide an air router unless the
 customer wants to use their own, we bridge the CPE radios on all but a
 handful of customers) The two main things we prefer out of the Air router
 is the ability to disable the reset button, and the wireless coverage is
 sufficient for a free consumer router) would have to hit the same
 pricepoint as the airrouter. Torch at the customer is a selling point
 though. out of curiousity, one thing we couldnt do with air router was
 tiered users on the device. We wanted to be able to give the customer a
 login where they can do whatever they want with the exception of changing
 the WAN config away from DHCP, or changing our remote access to the device.
 can you do this in MT?



 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Gabriel Pike gabriel.wi...@dmcibb.net
 wrote:

  We use Mikrotiks for all of our routers. We have a similar set up to
 the one you describe. I have 2 WAN routers doing BGP and iBGP between them
 with OSPF for internal routing. I really like Mikrotiks. I was trained with
 Cisco products in College but Mikrotiks were an easy transition. We use
 mostly RB 1100AHx2’s but I am about to upgrade our core routers to CCR
 series. We take in 300Mbps through both internet feeds and I am starting to
 max the CPU of the 1100AHX2’s.





 Regards,



 Gabriel Pike

 Network Support and Engineering

 MTCNA

 DMCI Broadband, LLC http://dmcibb.net/

 gabrielp...@dmcibb.net



 877.936.2422

 Ext. 103









 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
 *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 4:04 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations



 Generally you use x86 for the purchase of a license.  That's where they
 started their business.  Baltic/Titan/etc have their suggested models
 which are just x86

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

2015-03-30 Thread George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting)

I have a lot of towers with RB1100AHx2's and use a few ports for routed 
backhauls, then bridge the rest for APs and other PTPs. So no real 
switch at most sites. I really don't need wire-speed switching between 
APs anyway. Some smaller sites using RB493AH  G's doing the same thing.


Do not try to use a CRS as a router. Do not try to use a CCR as a 
switch. These are not Cisco's.


On 3/30/2015 6:06 PM, That One Guy wrote:
We have a Mikrotik friendly consultant lined up for the BGP 
implementation. Our purpose in BGP right now is to have versatility 
among our /24 and our extremely mismatched bandwidth between 
providers. because we are currently statically routed, we are using 
all our IP4 space on our smaller provider, and forced to NAT the 
majority of our customers behind some of our bigger providers IP 
space, I believe we are paying more for the smaller pipe than we are 
for the much larger one, but we have limited options amongst our high 
capacity backhaul locations... but that a whole other discussion.


I am trying to become familiar with the MT line of products so that 
the hardware decisions are our own and not solely at the whim of the 
consultant. The input from this list on hardware bears much more 
weight on those decisions than that of a consultant.


Regarding their line of switches, Im conflicted here, if I stick to 
using them as a switch is the consensus that they are good or bad?




On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 4:51 PM, Dennis Burgess 
dmburg...@linktechs.net mailto:dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote:


Steve,

I would suggest listening to the people here as well as maybe
getting a WISP consulting company to steer you in the right
direction . Also the MT vendor should be able to give you all of
the recommendations that you need on hardware. . Lots of options,
however, you may be able to get off with less expensive routers
but that’s depends on what you are doing, and/or what you are
planning for.

Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc.

den...@linktechs.net mailto:den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270
tel:314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *That One Guy
*Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 2:27 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

After poking around at many different brands, it seems Mikrotik is
the right fit for our network and budget.

I dont fully understand the licensing tiers

Is there a sizing chart on these?

Is the interface similar between the router models and the switch
models? Are the mikrotik switches comparable to the HP procurve in
reliability?

It would be the bees knees to see out network more universal as
far as management interfaces go, we have three purposes for routers:

our upstream routers, which we have 2, will ultimately be running
OSPF internally and BGP externally (current thought) 200mbps-1gbps
projected need through the next couple of years.

Our network/POP routers ranging from 1 customer at a POP to 150

A residential solution comparable to the UBNT AirRouters (1-25mbps
rate plans) wifi capable.

If the switches have similar interfaces, we would look toward
replacing a combination of UBNT toughswitch POE, and a variety of
HP procurves from 1810G to 2510G and their other POE models.

I note alot of discussion regarding MT ethernet negotiation
flakiness, how much of an impact does this present? Right now we
have imagestream and fortigate on the network, and have zero
issues with that.

The decision to go toward mikrotik is primarily based on cost and
community support availability within the industry. (this
consideration has alot to do with a single point of administrative
failure in only having one person, me, training to design,
maintain, support, and grow the network, in the event i became
absent from the picture) The winbox interface and feature
availability within was also a primary consideration for support
staff.

I would like to her from people entrenched in MT who love/hate it,
anybody who turned their back on it, and anybody who moved toward it.


-- 


If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see
your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of
the team.




--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

Are you taking full routing tables from your provider(s) on the edge?  If
so, I would probably re-think your thoughts on going with something like a
RB 1100AH in this role.

Take a look at the 951's for customer CPE routers.

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 5:02 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
wrote:

 RB 1100AHx2 was what I was looking at, on the edge, our current bigger
 pipe is only 300mbps today, so that would seem sufficient based on your
 description of use, since the other is smaller, at this price migrating it
 down into the network if we hit growth quickly wouldnt be a dealbreaker.
 Its unlikely we would be doing much beyond routing, no shaping or anything
 of that nature anywhere in the near term.

 Josh hating on the hardware does concern me though.

 We had dicked around with a few RB 750 in the past for a couple test
 cases, looking more toward replacing wired Dlinks for residential
 customers, but had to use it in a pinch at a small site, never saw any
 issue and liked the toolsets. Is there a comparable unit to the Air Routers
 for a residential solution (we normally provide an air router unless the
 customer wants to use their own, we bridge the CPE radios on all but a
 handful of customers) The two main things we prefer out of the Air router
 is the ability to disable the reset button, and the wireless coverage is
 sufficient for a free consumer router) would have to hit the same
 pricepoint as the airrouter. Torch at the customer is a selling point
 though. out of curiousity, one thing we couldnt do with air router was
 tiered users on the device. We wanted to be able to give the customer a
 login where they can do whatever they want with the exception of changing
 the WAN config away from DHCP, or changing our remote access to the device.
 can you do this in MT?



 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Gabriel Pike gabriel.wi...@dmcibb.net
 wrote:

 We use Mikrotiks for all of our routers. We have a similar set up to the
 one you describe. I have 2 WAN routers doing BGP and iBGP between them with
 OSPF for internal routing. I really like Mikrotiks. I was trained with
 Cisco products in College but Mikrotiks were an easy transition. We use
 mostly RB 1100AHx2’s but I am about to upgrade our core routers to CCR
 series. We take in 300Mbps through both internet feeds and I am starting to
 max the CPU of the 1100AHX2’s.





 Regards,



 Gabriel Pike

 Network Support and Engineering

 MTCNA

 DMCI Broadband, LLC http://dmcibb.net/

 gabrielp...@dmcibb.net



 877.936.2422

 Ext. 103









 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
 *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 4:04 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations



 Generally you use x86 for the purchase of a license.  That's where they
 started their business.  Baltic/Titan/etc have their suggested models
 which are just x86 machines with RouterOS on them already.  I'd use these
 1000x before I touched ImageStream at tower sites.




 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373



 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 4:00 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Are you guys saying, you purchase the router OS and put it on third party
 hardware over using their hardware? What hardware do you find yourselves
 using, if not routerboard?



 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Bill Prince part15...@gmail.com wrote:

 We do 99% of what we need on MT level 4. You only need level 5 or 6 if
 you have a bunch of tunnels. Get what you need mainly based on throughput
 and simultaneous connections. A lowly RB493 easily handles tens of
 thousands simultaneous connections, and a X86 router probably another order
 of magnitude. I think the typical connection table on any of the newer
 boards can get up around 500,000 connections.

 If you have solar powered sites, I think that MT is the only game in town.

 I've had limited success with their switches, and I do not consider them
 a robust solution. So if you need decent switches in your infrastructure,
 and you like your Procurves, stick with them. That said, I have stuck in
 quite a few routerboards and used them as switches no problem.


 bp

 part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com



 On 3/30/2015 12:26 PM, That One Guy wrote:

 After poking around at many different brands, it seems Mikrotik is the
 right fit for our network and budget.



 I dont fully understand the licensing tiers



 Is there a sizing chart on these?



 Is the interface similar between the router models and the switch models?
 Are the mikrotik switches comparable to the HP procurve in reliability?



 It would be the bees knees to see out network more universal as far as
 management interfaces go, we have three purposes for routers:



 our upstream routers, which we have 2, will ultimately be running OSPF
 internally and BGP externally (current thought) 200mbps-1gbps projected
 need through the next couple of years

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

2015-03-30 Thread Adam Moffett

My last employer was providing AIrRouters for customer premesis. This 
employer is using RB951.  I think there are more DOA's and early 
failures with the RB951, or at least the same.


So yeah, you get what you pay for.  It's like that Russian guy said in 
Armageddon:  American component, Russian componentall made in Taiwan.


RB2011 is pretty much the Swiss Army knife of routers.  CCR has lots of 
cajones (up to 32!).  951 is meh.  The little switches that run 
SwitchOS are meh.


The CRS switches are nice because you get the same user interface as the 
routers, but I find I have to keep reminding people that they are a 
lousy router and don't use them as a router.  Configure it as a switch 
and you have wire speed on every port.  Configure it like a router and 
you have a 450 with lots of ports.



On 3/30/2015 5:06 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Hating? No!  Just don't expect a $39 Routerboard to be as durable as 
your $1000 ImageStream.


The rb2011 rocks.  I've got nothing but good things to say about it.

The 100s and 500s from years and years back kind of irritated me.  The 
400s have been running for years, though, and have been fantastic!



Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 5:02 PM, That One Guy 
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:


RB 1100AHx2 was what I was looking at, on the edge, our current
bigger pipe is only 300mbps today, so that would seem sufficient
based on your description of use, since the other is smaller, at
this price migrating it down into the network if we hit growth
quickly wouldnt be a dealbreaker. Its unlikely we would be doing
much beyond routing, no shaping or anything of that nature
anywhere in the near term.

Josh hating on the hardware does concern me though.

We had dicked around with a few RB 750 in the past for a couple
test cases, looking more toward replacing wired Dlinks for
residential customers, but had to use it in a pinch at a small
site, never saw any issue and liked the toolsets. Is there a
comparable unit to the Air Routers for a residential solution (we
normally provide an air router unless the customer wants to use
their own, we bridge the CPE radios on all but a handful of
customers) The two main things we prefer out of the Air router is
the ability to disable the reset button, and the wireless coverage
is sufficient for a free consumer router) would have to hit the
same pricepoint as the airrouter. Torch at the customer is a
selling point though. out of curiousity, one thing we couldnt do
with air router was tiered users on the device. We wanted to be
able to give the customer a login where they can do whatever they
want with the exception of changing the WAN config away from DHCP,
or changing our remote access to the device. can you do this in MT?



On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Gabriel Pike
gabriel.wi...@dmcibb.net mailto:gabriel.wi...@dmcibb.net wrote:

We use Mikrotiks for all of our routers. We have a similar set
up to the one you describe. I have 2 WAN routers doing BGP and
iBGP between them with OSPF for internal routing. I really
like Mikrotiks. I was trained with Cisco products in College
but Mikrotiks were an easy transition. We use mostly RB
1100AHx2’s but I am about to upgrade our core routers to CCR
series. We take in 300Mbps through both internet feeds and I
am starting to max the CPU of the 1100AHX2’s.

Regards,

Gabriel Pike

Network Support and Engineering

MTCNA

DMCI Broadband, LLC http://dmcibb.net/

gabrielp...@dmcibb.net mailto:gabrielp...@dmcibb.net

877.936.2422 tel:877.936.2422

Ext. 103

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 4:04 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

Generally you use x86 for the purchase of a license.  That's
where they started their business. Baltic/Titan/etc have their
suggested models which are just x86 machines with RouterOS
on them already.  I'd use these 1000x before I touched
ImageStream at tower sites.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 tel:937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343 tel:937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 4:00 PM, That One Guy
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
wrote:

Are you guys saying, you purchase the router OS and put it on
third party hardware over using their hardware? What hardware
do you find yourselves using, if not routerboard?

On Mon, Mar

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

2015-03-30 Thread Mathew Howard

I agree, if you're running BGP with full routes, you would want to use an
x86 box (like the ones from Baltic or Titan) on the edge. An RB2011 will
probably be more than enough horsepower for most POP routers.

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 4:23 PM, Josh Baird joshba...@gmail.com wrote:

 Are you taking full routing tables from your provider(s) on the edge?  If
 so, I would probably re-think your thoughts on going with something like a
 RB 1100AH in this role.

 Take a look at the 951's for customer CPE routers.

 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 5:02 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 RB 1100AHx2 was what I was looking at, on the edge, our current bigger
 pipe is only 300mbps today, so that would seem sufficient based on your
 description of use, since the other is smaller, at this price migrating it
 down into the network if we hit growth quickly wouldnt be a dealbreaker.
 Its unlikely we would be doing much beyond routing, no shaping or anything
 of that nature anywhere in the near term.

 Josh hating on the hardware does concern me though.

 We had dicked around with a few RB 750 in the past for a couple test
 cases, looking more toward replacing wired Dlinks for residential
 customers, but had to use it in a pinch at a small site, never saw any
 issue and liked the toolsets. Is there a comparable unit to the Air Routers
 for a residential solution (we normally provide an air router unless the
 customer wants to use their own, we bridge the CPE radios on all but a
 handful of customers) The two main things we prefer out of the Air router
 is the ability to disable the reset button, and the wireless coverage is
 sufficient for a free consumer router) would have to hit the same
 pricepoint as the airrouter. Torch at the customer is a selling point
 though. out of curiousity, one thing we couldnt do with air router was
 tiered users on the device. We wanted to be able to give the customer a
 login where they can do whatever they want with the exception of changing
 the WAN config away from DHCP, or changing our remote access to the device.
 can you do this in MT?



 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Gabriel Pike gabriel.wi...@dmcibb.net
 wrote:

 We use Mikrotiks for all of our routers. We have a similar set up to the
 one you describe. I have 2 WAN routers doing BGP and iBGP between them with
 OSPF for internal routing. I really like Mikrotiks. I was trained with
 Cisco products in College but Mikrotiks were an easy transition. We use
 mostly RB 1100AHx2’s but I am about to upgrade our core routers to CCR
 series. We take in 300Mbps through both internet feeds and I am starting to
 max the CPU of the 1100AHX2’s.





 Regards,



 Gabriel Pike

 Network Support and Engineering

 MTCNA

 DMCI Broadband, LLC http://dmcibb.net/

 gabrielp...@dmcibb.net



 877.936.2422

 Ext. 103









 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
 *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 4:04 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations



 Generally you use x86 for the purchase of a license.  That's where they
 started their business.  Baltic/Titan/etc have their suggested models
 which are just x86 machines with RouterOS on them already.  I'd use these
 1000x before I touched ImageStream at tower sites.




 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373



 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 4:00 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Are you guys saying, you purchase the router OS and put it on third
 party hardware over using their hardware? What hardware do you find
 yourselves using, if not routerboard?



 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Bill Prince part15...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 We do 99% of what we need on MT level 4. You only need level 5 or 6 if
 you have a bunch of tunnels. Get what you need mainly based on throughput
 and simultaneous connections. A lowly RB493 easily handles tens of
 thousands simultaneous connections, and a X86 router probably another order
 of magnitude. I think the typical connection table on any of the newer
 boards can get up around 500,000 connections.

 If you have solar powered sites, I think that MT is the only game in
 town.

 I've had limited success with their switches, and I do not consider them
 a robust solution. So if you need decent switches in your infrastructure,
 and you like your Procurves, stick with them. That said, I have stuck in
 quite a few routerboards and used them as switches no problem.


 bp

 part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com



 On 3/30/2015 12:26 PM, That One Guy wrote:

 After poking around at many different brands, it seems Mikrotik is the
 right fit for our network and budget.



 I dont fully understand the licensing tiers



 Is there a sizing chart on these?



 Is the interface similar between the router models and the switch
 models? Are the mikrotik switches comparable to the HP procurve in
 reliability?



 It would be the bees knees to see

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

Hating? No!  Just don't expect a $39 Routerboard to be as durable as your
$1000 ImageStream.

The rb2011 rocks.  I've got nothing but good things to say about it.

The 100s and 500s from years and years back kind of irritated me.  The 400s
have been running for years, though, and have been fantastic!


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 5:02 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
wrote:

 RB 1100AHx2 was what I was looking at, on the edge, our current bigger
 pipe is only 300mbps today, so that would seem sufficient based on your
 description of use, since the other is smaller, at this price migrating it
 down into the network if we hit growth quickly wouldnt be a dealbreaker.
 Its unlikely we would be doing much beyond routing, no shaping or anything
 of that nature anywhere in the near term.

 Josh hating on the hardware does concern me though.

 We had dicked around with a few RB 750 in the past for a couple test
 cases, looking more toward replacing wired Dlinks for residential
 customers, but had to use it in a pinch at a small site, never saw any
 issue and liked the toolsets. Is there a comparable unit to the Air Routers
 for a residential solution (we normally provide an air router unless the
 customer wants to use their own, we bridge the CPE radios on all but a
 handful of customers) The two main things we prefer out of the Air router
 is the ability to disable the reset button, and the wireless coverage is
 sufficient for a free consumer router) would have to hit the same
 pricepoint as the airrouter. Torch at the customer is a selling point
 though. out of curiousity, one thing we couldnt do with air router was
 tiered users on the device. We wanted to be able to give the customer a
 login where they can do whatever they want with the exception of changing
 the WAN config away from DHCP, or changing our remote access to the device.
 can you do this in MT?



 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Gabriel Pike gabriel.wi...@dmcibb.net
 wrote:

 We use Mikrotiks for all of our routers. We have a similar set up to the
 one you describe. I have 2 WAN routers doing BGP and iBGP between them with
 OSPF for internal routing. I really like Mikrotiks. I was trained with
 Cisco products in College but Mikrotiks were an easy transition. We use
 mostly RB 1100AHx2’s but I am about to upgrade our core routers to CCR
 series. We take in 300Mbps through both internet feeds and I am starting to
 max the CPU of the 1100AHX2’s.





 Regards,



 Gabriel Pike

 Network Support and Engineering

 MTCNA

 DMCI Broadband, LLC http://dmcibb.net/

 gabrielp...@dmcibb.net



 877.936.2422

 Ext. 103









 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
 *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 4:04 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations



 Generally you use x86 for the purchase of a license.  That's where they
 started their business.  Baltic/Titan/etc have their suggested models
 which are just x86 machines with RouterOS on them already.  I'd use these
 1000x before I touched ImageStream at tower sites.




 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373



 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 4:00 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Are you guys saying, you purchase the router OS and put it on third party
 hardware over using their hardware? What hardware do you find yourselves
 using, if not routerboard?



 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Bill Prince part15...@gmail.com wrote:

 We do 99% of what we need on MT level 4. You only need level 5 or 6 if
 you have a bunch of tunnels. Get what you need mainly based on throughput
 and simultaneous connections. A lowly RB493 easily handles tens of
 thousands simultaneous connections, and a X86 router probably another order
 of magnitude. I think the typical connection table on any of the newer
 boards can get up around 500,000 connections.

 If you have solar powered sites, I think that MT is the only game in town.

 I've had limited success with their switches, and I do not consider them
 a robust solution. So if you need decent switches in your infrastructure,
 and you like your Procurves, stick with them. That said, I have stuck in
 quite a few routerboards and used them as switches no problem.


 bp

 part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com



 On 3/30/2015 12:26 PM, That One Guy wrote:

 After poking around at many different brands, it seems Mikrotik is the
 right fit for our network and budget.



 I dont fully understand the licensing tiers



 Is there a sizing chart on these?



 Is the interface similar between the router models and the switch models?
 Are the mikrotik switches comparable to the HP procurve in reliability?



 It would be the bees knees to see out network more universal as far as
 management interfaces go, we have three purposes for routers:



 our upstream

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

2015-03-30 Thread Ty Featherling

Good point to make there Ken. Steve, make sure you buy the G for gigabit
versions of the router when available. Not only will you get gigabit ports
but you also get a faster processor. I do love the CRS125 as long as you
know what it is and don't think it is something it isn't. Like you said it
is just link a 450 or maybe a 2011 but with more ports.

-Ty


On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 4:35 PM, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com wrote:

   I haven’t had any failures with RB951, we do use the G version FWIW.

 I’ve had 2 out-of-box failures with RB2011, one the CPU heatsink was
 rattling around inside (there was a metal shaving under the sticky tape),
 another had a dead port.

 CRS125 is essentially the same CPU as RB2011, more ports and all gigabit,
 if you are using it as a 1U tower router and don’t need WiFi.  RB2011 is
 smaller and less expensive.

  *From:* Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com
 *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 4:25 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

 My last employer was providing AIrRouters for customer premesis.  This
 employer is using RB951.  I think there are more DOA's and early failures
 with the RB951, or at least the same.

 So yeah, you get what you pay for.  It's like that Russian guy said in
 Armageddon:  American component, Russian componentall made in Taiwan.

 RB2011 is pretty much the Swiss Army knife of routers.  CCR has lots of
 cajones (up to 32!).  951 is meh.  The little switches that run SwitchOS
 are meh.

 The CRS switches are nice because you get the same user interface as the
 routers, but I find I have to keep reminding people that they are a lousy
 router and don't use them as a router.  Configure it as a switch and you
 have wire speed on every port.  Configure it like a router and you have a
 450 with lots of ports.


 On 3/30/2015 5:06 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

 Hating? No!  Just don't expect a $39 Routerboard to be as durable as your
 $1000 ImageStream.

 The rb2011 rocks.  I've got nothing but good things to say about it.

 The 100s and 500s from years and years back kind of irritated me.  The
 400s have been running for years, though, and have been fantastic!


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 5:02 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 RB 1100AHx2 was what I was looking at, on the edge, our current bigger
 pipe is only 300mbps today, so that would seem sufficient based on your
 description of use, since the other is smaller, at this price migrating it
 down into the network if we hit growth quickly wouldnt be a dealbreaker.
 Its unlikely we would be doing much beyond routing, no shaping or anything
 of that nature anywhere in the near term.

 Josh hating on the hardware does concern me though.

 We had dicked around with a few RB 750 in the past for a couple test
 cases, looking more toward replacing wired Dlinks for residential
 customers, but had to use it in a pinch at a small site, never saw any
 issue and liked the toolsets. Is there a comparable unit to the Air Routers
 for a residential solution (we normally provide an air router unless the
 customer wants to use their own, we bridge the CPE radios on all but a
 handful of customers) The two main things we prefer out of the Air router
 is the ability to disable the reset button, and the wireless coverage is
 sufficient for a free consumer router) would have to hit the same
 pricepoint as the airrouter. Torch at the customer is a selling point
 though. out of curiousity, one thing we couldnt do with air router was
 tiered users on the device. We wanted to be able to give the customer a
 login where they can do whatever they want with the exception of changing
 the WAN config away from DHCP, or changing our remote access to the device.
 can you do this in MT?



 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Gabriel Pike gabriel.wi...@dmcibb.net
 wrote:

  We use Mikrotiks for all of our routers. We have a similar set up to
 the one you describe. I have 2 WAN routers doing BGP and iBGP between them
 with OSPF for internal routing. I really like Mikrotiks. I was trained with
 Cisco products in College but Mikrotiks were an easy transition. We use
 mostly RB 1100AHx2’s but I am about to upgrade our core routers to CCR
 series. We take in 300Mbps through both internet feeds and I am starting to
 max the CPU of the 1100AHX2’s.





 Regards,



 Gabriel Pike

 Network Support and Engineering

 MTCNA

 DMCI Broadband, LLC http://dmcibb.net/

 gabrielp...@dmcibb.net



 877.936.2422

 Ext. 103









 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
 *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 4:04 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations



 Generally you use x86 for the purchase of a license.  That's where they
 started their business.  Baltic/Titan/etc have their suggested models
 which are just x86 machines

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

We have a Mikrotik friendly consultant lined up for the BGP implementation.
Our purpose in BGP right now is to have versatility among our /24 and our
extremely mismatched bandwidth between providers. because we are currently
statically routed, we are using all our IP4 space on our smaller provider,
and forced to NAT the majority of our customers behind some of our bigger
providers IP space, I believe we are paying more for the smaller pipe than
we are for the much larger one, but we have limited options amongst our
high capacity backhaul locations... but that a whole other discussion.

I am trying to become familiar with the MT line of products so that the
hardware decisions are our own and not solely at the whim of the
consultant. The input from this list on hardware bears much more weight on
those decisions than that of a consultant.

Regarding their line of switches, Im conflicted here, if I stick to using
them as a switch is the consensus that they are good or bad?



On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 4:51 PM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net
wrote:

  Steve,



 I would suggest listening to the people here as well as maybe getting a
 WISP consulting company to steer you in the right direction . Also the MT
 vendor should be able to give you all of the recommendations that you need
 on hardware. . Lots of options, however, you may be able to get off with
 less expensive routers but that’s depends on what you are doing, and/or
 what you are planning for.







 Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc.

 den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net



 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *That One Guy
 *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 2:27 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations



 After poking around at many different brands, it seems Mikrotik is the
 right fit for our network and budget.



 I dont fully understand the licensing tiers



 Is there a sizing chart on these?



 Is the interface similar between the router models and the switch models?
 Are the mikrotik switches comparable to the HP procurve in reliability?



 It would be the bees knees to see out network more universal as far as
 management interfaces go, we have three purposes for routers:



 our upstream routers, which we have 2, will ultimately be running OSPF
 internally and BGP externally (current thought) 200mbps-1gbps projected
 need through the next couple of years.



 Our network/POP routers ranging from 1 customer at a POP to 150



 A residential solution comparable to the UBNT AirRouters (1-25mbps rate
 plans) wifi capable.



 If the switches have similar interfaces, we would look toward replacing a
 combination of UBNT toughswitch POE, and a variety of HP procurves from
 1810G to 2510G and their other POE models.







 I note alot of discussion regarding MT ethernet negotiation flakiness, how
 much of an impact does this present? Right now we have imagestream and
 fortigate on the network, and have zero issues with that.





 The decision to go toward mikrotik is primarily based on cost and
 community support availability within the industry. (this consideration has
 alot to do with a single point of administrative failure in only having one
 person, me, training to design, maintain, support, and grow the network, in
 the event i became absent from the picture) The winbox interface and
 feature availability within was also a primary consideration for support
 staff.



 I would like to her from people entrenched in MT who love/hate it, anybody
 who turned their back on it, and anybody who moved toward it.






 --

 If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
 as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.




-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

Great input guys, I truly appreciate it.

On the RB110 AH, I see Includes switch to enable Ethernet bypass mode in
two ports What is this? Tell me it turns those two ports into a couple if
the router fails, that would be nice if we opt to fully route our backhauls.

Currently, at the sites we have routers at, we have all the backhauls and
our battery backup coming into a switch ( had a failed RSTP implementation
previously, then moved to manual redundant failover), this connects the a
port on a router, then the interior port of the router connects to a switch
that houses the site APs. assuming I dont exceed the number of ports in the
device I can still bridge ports and achieve essentially the same thing,
freeing up both battery consumption and cost? I like the modular approach
of three things (APs tend to be the source of lighting taking out the
internal switch, but leaving the backhauls intact), but it does add
substantial hurt when lighting strikes in replacement costs, especially at
small sites.

We have imagestream rebel routers for our two primary, we have never had
any performance issue or trouble out of them. Without actually going and
looking at the specs on the two I think I would be safe at this point to
replace them with the RB110AH, and move them downstream replacing them with
these CCRs or a third party hardware as we progress to a respectable
network if there is any impact?

This would be a preferred POP router as well, with the option of smaller
sites using a smaller (cheaper) unit until the site demanded it.

For the customer, we only provide the air router for cheap wireless, with
no guarantees on coverage, we set the ESSID based on their name and the key
based on their MAC, no exceptions, policy is if theyre having problems, we
shut the wireless off and have them purchase their own AP or wireless
router and replace ours, seeking in house wireless support from that
vendor. If we can source the RB951-2N at a comparable price to the air
router, then with our wireless policy in mind it is a sufficient
replacement with more potential features including gigabit ethernet?


Getting the routed network components under a single interface has a huge
amount of benefit to me in regard to getting my guys capable of replacing
me if that came to pass. The current network requires familiarity with too
many brands and too many interfaces to have an unmotivated second. If I get
hit by a bus tomorrow, the company could reach out to the community to get
a handle on the design even without my poorly documented notes.




On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 6:06 PM, Gilbert Gutierrez 
mailing-li...@phoenixinternet.net wrote:

  I would also suggest getting a WISP consulting company involved if you
 have questions on what products to use. BGP can be an issue with full
 routes on a CCR due to the way RouterOS is designed with that processor.
 x86 processor handles BGP great. With that being said, I have over a
 Gigabit of traffic flowing over some CCR routers with full routing tables
 from 2 providers and it works fine (for well over a year). I have a third
 provider with one of Dennis' x86 machines and it also works great.

 Gilbert T. Gutierrez, Jr.
 Operations Manager
 Phoenix Internet

 On 3/30/2015 2:51 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

  Steve,



 I would suggest listening to the people here as well as maybe getting a
 WISP consulting company to steer you in the right direction . Also the MT
 vendor should be able to give you all of the recommendations that you need
 on hardware. . Lots of options, however, you may be able to get off with
 less expensive routers but that’s depends on what you are doing, and/or
 what you are planning for.







 Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc.

 den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net



 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com af-boun...@afmug.com] *On
 Behalf Of *That One Guy
 *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 2:27 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations



 After poking around at many different brands, it seems Mikrotik is the
 right fit for our network and budget.



 I dont fully understand the licensing tiers



 Is there a sizing chart on these?



 Is the interface similar between the router models and the switch models?
 Are the mikrotik switches comparable to the HP procurve in reliability?



 It would be the bees knees to see out network more universal as far as
 management interfaces go, we have three purposes for routers:



 our upstream routers, which we have 2, will ultimately be running OSPF
 internally and BGP externally (current thought) 200mbps-1gbps projected
 need through the next couple of years.



 Our network/POP routers ranging from 1 customer at a POP to 150



 A residential solution comparable to the UBNT AirRouters (1-25mbps rate
 plans) wifi capable.



 If the switches have similar interfaces, we would look toward replacing a
 combination of UBNT toughswitch POE, and a variety of HP

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

We have a ton of 450G's out in the field at towers for smaller sites.  We
also typically use the 450G as a 'managed router' solution for dedicated
business customers.  Backhauls go into routed ports, AP's go into a
bridge.  When we need more interfaces, we start to look at the 2011 for
small to medium sized sites.  We have 1100AHX2's at our larger sites mostly
due to the number of interfaces.  We usually don't put switches at sites
although this will probably change as we are considering deploying the
Netonix DC switches at the top-of-tower for some sites.

We do not use MT for the edge and core of our network.  If you do choose to
go with MT in the edge role, I would look into x86, especially if you are
taking full routing tables from your provider(s).  As others have said (and
I will echo); if you are used to a L2 switch like HP/Cisco and need to do
much with VLANs, you may want to stick with them.

Josh

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 7:45 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Great input guys, I truly appreciate it.

 On the RB110 AH, I see Includes switch to enable Ethernet bypass mode in
 two ports What is this? Tell me it turns those two ports into a couple if
 the router fails, that would be nice if we opt to fully route our backhauls.

 Currently, at the sites we have routers at, we have all the backhauls and
 our battery backup coming into a switch ( had a failed RSTP implementation
 previously, then moved to manual redundant failover), this connects the a
 port on a router, then the interior port of the router connects to a switch
 that houses the site APs. assuming I dont exceed the number of ports in the
 device I can still bridge ports and achieve essentially the same thing,
 freeing up both battery consumption and cost? I like the modular approach
 of three things (APs tend to be the source of lighting taking out the
 internal switch, but leaving the backhauls intact), but it does add
 substantial hurt when lighting strikes in replacement costs, especially at
 small sites.

 We have imagestream rebel routers for our two primary, we have never had
 any performance issue or trouble out of them. Without actually going and
 looking at the specs on the two I think I would be safe at this point to
 replace them with the RB110AH, and move them downstream replacing them with
 these CCRs or a third party hardware as we progress to a respectable
 network if there is any impact?

 This would be a preferred POP router as well, with the option of smaller
 sites using a smaller (cheaper) unit until the site demanded it.

 For the customer, we only provide the air router for cheap wireless, with
 no guarantees on coverage, we set the ESSID based on their name and the key
 based on their MAC, no exceptions, policy is if theyre having problems, we
 shut the wireless off and have them purchase their own AP or wireless
 router and replace ours, seeking in house wireless support from that
 vendor. If we can source the RB951-2N at a comparable price to the air
 router, then with our wireless policy in mind it is a sufficient
 replacement with more potential features including gigabit ethernet?


 Getting the routed network components under a single interface has a huge
 amount of benefit to me in regard to getting my guys capable of replacing
 me if that came to pass. The current network requires familiarity with too
 many brands and too many interfaces to have an unmotivated second. If I get
 hit by a bus tomorrow, the company could reach out to the community to get
 a handle on the design even without my poorly documented notes.




 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 6:06 PM, Gilbert Gutierrez 
 mailing-li...@phoenixinternet.net wrote:

  I would also suggest getting a WISP consulting company involved if you
 have questions on what products to use. BGP can be an issue with full
 routes on a CCR due to the way RouterOS is designed with that processor.
 x86 processor handles BGP great. With that being said, I have over a
 Gigabit of traffic flowing over some CCR routers with full routing tables
 from 2 providers and it works fine (for well over a year). I have a third
 provider with one of Dennis' x86 machines and it also works great.

 Gilbert T. Gutierrez, Jr.
 Operations Manager
 Phoenix Internet


 On 3/30/2015 2:51 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

  Steve,



 I would suggest listening to the people here as well as maybe getting a
 WISP consulting company to steer you in the right direction . Also the MT
 vendor should be able to give you all of the recommendations that you need
 on hardware. . Lots of options, however, you may be able to get off with
 less expensive routers but that’s depends on what you are doing, and/or
 what you are planning for.







 Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies, Inc.

 den...@linktechs.net – 314-735-0270 – www.linktechs.net



 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com af-boun...@afmug.com] *On
 Behalf Of *That One Guy
 *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 2:27 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

Now, see this leads back to confusion for me, that product is listed as
just a routerboard. I assume this is so you can use your own housing? For
that I would just purchase a CA150 separately?

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 7:20 PM, Josh Baird joshba...@gmail.com wrote:

 We just haven't had a chance to try it yet.

 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 8:18 PM, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com wrote:

   Seems like the RB850Gx2 gets no love?

  *From:* Josh Baird joshba...@gmail.com
 *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 6:57 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

  We have a ton of 450G's out in the field at towers for smaller sites.
 We also typically use the 450G as a 'managed router' solution for dedicated
 business customers.  Backhauls go into routed ports, AP's go into a
 bridge.  When we need more interfaces, we start to look at the 2011 for
 small to medium sized sites.  We have 1100AHX2's at our larger sites mostly
 due to the number of interfaces.  We usually don't put switches at sites
 although this will probably change as we are considering deploying the
 Netonix DC switches at the top-of-tower for some sites.

 We do not use MT for the edge and core of our network.  If you do choose
 to go with MT in the edge role, I would look into x86, especially if you
 are taking full routing tables from your provider(s).  As others have said
 (and I will echo); if you are used to a L2 switch like HP/Cisco and need to
 do much with VLANs, you may want to stick with them.

 Josh

 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 7:45 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Great input guys, I truly appreciate it.

 On the RB110 AH, I see Includes switch to enable Ethernet bypass mode
 in two ports What is this? Tell me it turns those two ports into a couple
 if the router fails, that would be nice if we opt to fully route our
 backhauls.

 Currently, at the sites we have routers at, we have all the backhauls
 and our battery backup coming into a switch ( had a failed RSTP
 implementation previously, then moved to manual redundant failover), this
 connects the a port on a router, then the interior port of the router
 connects to a switch that houses the site APs. assuming I dont exceed the
 number of ports in the device I can still bridge ports and achieve
 essentially the same thing, freeing up both battery consumption and cost? I
 like the modular approach of three things (APs tend to be the source of
 lighting taking out the internal switch, but leaving the backhauls intact),
 but it does add substantial hurt when lighting strikes in replacement
 costs, especially at small sites.

 We have imagestream rebel routers for our two primary, we have never had
 any performance issue or trouble out of them. Without actually going and
 looking at the specs on the two I think I would be safe at this point to
 replace them with the RB110AH, and move them downstream replacing them with
 these CCRs or a third party hardware as we progress to a respectable
 network if there is any impact?

 This would be a preferred POP router as well, with the option of smaller
 sites using a smaller (cheaper) unit until the site demanded it.

 For the customer, we only provide the air router for cheap wireless,
 with no guarantees on coverage, we set the ESSID based on their name and
 the key based on their MAC, no exceptions, policy is if theyre having
 problems, we shut the wireless off and have them purchase their own AP or
 wireless router and replace ours, seeking in house wireless support from
 that vendor. If we can source the RB951-2N at a comparable price to the air
 router, then with our wireless policy in mind it is a sufficient
 replacement with more potential features including gigabit ethernet?


 Getting the routed network components under a single interface has a
 huge amount of benefit to me in regard to getting my guys capable of
 replacing me if that came to pass. The current network requires familiarity
 with too many brands and too many interfaces to have an unmotivated second.
 If I get hit by a bus tomorrow, the company could reach out to the
 community to get a handle on the design even without my poorly documented
 notes.




 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 6:06 PM, Gilbert Gutierrez 
 mailing-li...@phoenixinternet.net wrote:

 I would also suggest getting a WISP consulting company involved if you
 have questions on what products to use. BGP can be an issue with full
 routes on a CCR due to the way RouterOS is designed with that processor.
 x86 processor handles BGP great. With that being said, I have over a
 Gigabit of traffic flowing over some CCR routers with full routing tables
 from 2 providers and it works fine (for well over a year). I have a third
 provider with one of Dennis' x86 machines and it also works great.

 Gilbert T. Gutierrez, Jr.
 Operations Manager
 Phoenix Internet


 On 3/30/2015 2:51 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

  Steve,



 I would suggest listening to the people here as well as maybe

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

I believe all boards have an indoor OEM case.  There are tons of third
party outdoor options.  Keep in mind boosts like 951 is for home CPE,
nothing like BGP.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mar 30, 2015 8:33 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:

 Now, see this leads back to confusion for me, that product is listed as
 just a routerboard. I assume this is so you can use your own housing? For
 that I would just purchase a CA150 separately?

 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 7:20 PM, Josh Baird joshba...@gmail.com wrote:

 We just haven't had a chance to try it yet.

 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 8:18 PM, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com wrote:

   Seems like the RB850Gx2 gets no love?

  *From:* Josh Baird joshba...@gmail.com
 *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 6:57 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

  We have a ton of 450G's out in the field at towers for smaller sites.
 We also typically use the 450G as a 'managed router' solution for dedicated
 business customers.  Backhauls go into routed ports, AP's go into a
 bridge.  When we need more interfaces, we start to look at the 2011 for
 small to medium sized sites.  We have 1100AHX2's at our larger sites mostly
 due to the number of interfaces.  We usually don't put switches at sites
 although this will probably change as we are considering deploying the
 Netonix DC switches at the top-of-tower for some sites.

 We do not use MT for the edge and core of our network.  If you do choose
 to go with MT in the edge role, I would look into x86, especially if you
 are taking full routing tables from your provider(s).  As others have said
 (and I will echo); if you are used to a L2 switch like HP/Cisco and need to
 do much with VLANs, you may want to stick with them.

 Josh

 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 7:45 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
  wrote:

 Great input guys, I truly appreciate it.

 On the RB110 AH, I see Includes switch to enable Ethernet bypass mode
 in two ports What is this? Tell me it turns those two ports into a couple
 if the router fails, that would be nice if we opt to fully route our
 backhauls.

 Currently, at the sites we have routers at, we have all the backhauls
 and our battery backup coming into a switch ( had a failed RSTP
 implementation previously, then moved to manual redundant failover), this
 connects the a port on a router, then the interior port of the router
 connects to a switch that houses the site APs. assuming I dont exceed the
 number of ports in the device I can still bridge ports and achieve
 essentially the same thing, freeing up both battery consumption and cost? I
 like the modular approach of three things (APs tend to be the source of
 lighting taking out the internal switch, but leaving the backhauls intact),
 but it does add substantial hurt when lighting strikes in replacement
 costs, especially at small sites.

 We have imagestream rebel routers for our two primary, we have never
 had any performance issue or trouble out of them. Without actually going
 and looking at the specs on the two I think I would be safe at this point
 to replace them with the RB110AH, and move them downstream replacing them
 with these CCRs or a third party hardware as we progress to a respectable
 network if there is any impact?

 This would be a preferred POP router as well, with the option of
 smaller sites using a smaller (cheaper) unit until the site demanded it.

 For the customer, we only provide the air router for cheap wireless,
 with no guarantees on coverage, we set the ESSID based on their name and
 the key based on their MAC, no exceptions, policy is if theyre having
 problems, we shut the wireless off and have them purchase their own AP or
 wireless router and replace ours, seeking in house wireless support from
 that vendor. If we can source the RB951-2N at a comparable price to the air
 router, then with our wireless policy in mind it is a sufficient
 replacement with more potential features including gigabit ethernet?


 Getting the routed network components under a single interface has a
 huge amount of benefit to me in regard to getting my guys capable of
 replacing me if that came to pass. The current network requires familiarity
 with too many brands and too many interfaces to have an unmotivated second.
 If I get hit by a bus tomorrow, the company could reach out to the
 community to get a handle on the design even without my poorly documented
 notes.




 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 6:06 PM, Gilbert Gutierrez 
 mailing-li...@phoenixinternet.net wrote:

 I would also suggest getting a WISP consulting company involved if you
 have questions on what products to use. BGP can be an issue with full
 routes on a CCR due to the way RouterOS is designed with that processor.
 x86 processor handles BGP great. With that being said, I have over a
 Gigabit of traffic flowing over some CCR routers with full routing tables

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

Take a look at Baltic or roc-noc.com.  They sell them with cases.

 On Mar 30, 2015, at 8:33 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Now, see this leads back to confusion for me, that product is listed as just 
 a routerboard. I assume this is so you can use your own housing? For that I 
 would just purchase a CA150 separately?
 
 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 7:20 PM, Josh Baird joshba...@gmail.com wrote:
 We just haven't had a chance to try it yet.
 
 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 8:18 PM, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com wrote:
 Seems like the RB850Gx2 gets no love?
  
 From: Josh Baird
 Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 6:57 PM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations
  
 We have a ton of 450G's out in the field at towers for smaller sites.  We 
 also typically use the 450G as a 'managed router' solution for dedicated 
 business customers.  Backhauls go into routed ports, AP's go into a bridge. 
  When we need more interfaces, we start to look at the 2011 for small to 
 medium sized sites.  We have 1100AHX2's at our larger sites mostly due to 
 the number of interfaces.  We usually don't put switches at sites although 
 this will probably change as we are considering deploying the Netonix DC 
 switches at the top-of-tower for some sites.
  
 We do not use MT for the edge and core of our network.  If you do choose to 
 go with MT in the edge role, I would look into x86, especially if you are 
 taking full routing tables from your provider(s).  As others have said (and 
 I will echo); if you are used to a L2 switch like HP/Cisco and need to do 
 much with VLANs, you may want to stick with them.
  
 Josh
  
 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 7:45 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 
 Great input guys, I truly appreciate it.
  
 On the RB110 AH, I see Includes switch to enable Ethernet bypass mode in 
 two ports What is this? Tell me it turns those two ports into a couple if 
 the router fails, that would be nice if we opt to fully route our 
 backhauls.
  
 Currently, at the sites we have routers at, we have all the backhauls and 
 our battery backup coming into a switch ( had a failed RSTP implementation 
 previously, then moved to manual redundant failover), this connects the a 
 port on a router, then the interior port of the router connects to a 
 switch that houses the site APs. assuming I dont exceed the number of 
 ports in the device I can still bridge ports and achieve essentially the 
 same thing, freeing up both battery consumption and cost? I like the 
 modular approach of three things (APs tend to be the source of lighting 
 taking out the internal switch, but leaving the backhauls intact), but it 
 does add substantial hurt when lighting strikes in replacement costs, 
 especially at small sites.
  
 We have imagestream rebel routers for our two primary, we have never had 
 any performance issue or trouble out of them. Without actually going and 
 looking at the specs on the two I think I would be safe at this point to 
 replace them with the RB110AH, and move them downstream replacing them 
 with these CCRs or a third party hardware as we progress to a respectable 
 network if there is any impact?
  
 This would be a preferred POP router as well, with the option of smaller 
 sites using a smaller (cheaper) unit until the site demanded it.
  
 For the customer, we only provide the air router for cheap wireless, with 
 no guarantees on coverage, we set the ESSID based on their name and the 
 key based on their MAC, no exceptions, policy is if theyre having 
 problems, we shut the wireless off and have them purchase their own AP or 
 wireless router and replace ours, seeking in house wireless support from 
 that vendor. If we can source the RB951-2N at a comparable price to the 
 air router, then with our wireless policy in mind it is a sufficient 
 replacement with more potential features including gigabit ethernet?
  
  
 Getting the routed network components under a single interface has a huge 
 amount of benefit to me in regard to getting my guys capable of replacing 
 me if that came to pass. The current network requires familiarity with too 
 many brands and too many interfaces to have an unmotivated second. If I 
 get hit by a bus tomorrow, the company could reach out to the community to 
 get a handle on the design even without my poorly documented notes.
  
  
  
  
 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 6:06 PM, GilbertGutierrez 
 mailing-li...@phoenixinternet.net wrote:
 I would also suggest getting a WISP consulting company involved if you 
 have questions on what products to use. BGP can be an issue with full 
 routes on a CCR due to the way RouterOS is designed with that processor. 
 x86 processor handles BGP great. With that being said, I have over a 
 Gigabit of traffic flowing over some CCR routers with full routing tables 
 from 2 providers and it works fine (for well over a  year). I have a 
 third provider with one of Dennis' x86 machines

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

2015-03-30 Thread Erich Kaiser

RB850Gx2 is a great product! :)


Erich Kaiser
North Central Tower
er...@northcentraltower.com
Office: 630-621-4804
Cell: 630-777-9291


On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 7:18 PM, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com wrote:

   Seems like the RB850Gx2 gets no love?

  *From:* Josh Baird joshba...@gmail.com
 *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2015 6:57 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

  We have a ton of 450G's out in the field at towers for smaller sites.
 We also typically use the 450G as a 'managed router' solution for dedicated
 business customers.  Backhauls go into routed ports, AP's go into a
 bridge.  When we need more interfaces, we start to look at the 2011 for
 small to medium sized sites.  We have 1100AHX2's at our larger sites mostly
 due to the number of interfaces.  We usually don't put switches at sites
 although this will probably change as we are considering deploying the
 Netonix DC switches at the top-of-tower for some sites.

 We do not use MT for the edge and core of our network.  If you do choose
 to go with MT in the edge role, I would look into x86, especially if you
 are taking full routing tables from your provider(s).  As others have said
 (and I will echo); if you are used to a L2 switch like HP/Cisco and need to
 do much with VLANs, you may want to stick with them.

 Josh

 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 7:45 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Great input guys, I truly appreciate it.

 On the RB110 AH, I see Includes switch to enable Ethernet bypass mode in
 two ports What is this? Tell me it turns those two ports into a couple if
 the router fails, that would be nice if we opt to fully route our backhauls.

 Currently, at the sites we have routers at, we have all the backhauls and
 our battery backup coming into a switch ( had a failed RSTP implementation
 previously, then moved to manual redundant failover), this connects the a
 port on a router, then the interior port of the router connects to a switch
 that houses the site APs. assuming I dont exceed the number of ports in the
 device I can still bridge ports and achieve essentially the same thing,
 freeing up both battery consumption and cost? I like the modular approach
 of three things (APs tend to be the source of lighting taking out the
 internal switch, but leaving the backhauls intact), but it does add
 substantial hurt when lighting strikes in replacement costs, especially at
 small sites.

 We have imagestream rebel routers for our two primary, we have never had
 any performance issue or trouble out of them. Without actually going and
 looking at the specs on the two I think I would be safe at this point to
 replace them with the RB110AH, and move them downstream replacing them with
 these CCRs or a third party hardware as we progress to a respectable
 network if there is any impact?

 This would be a preferred POP router as well, with the option of smaller
 sites using a smaller (cheaper) unit until the site demanded it.

 For the customer, we only provide the air router for cheap wireless, with
 no guarantees on coverage, we set the ESSID based on their name and the key
 based on their MAC, no exceptions, policy is if theyre having problems, we
 shut the wireless off and have them purchase their own AP or wireless
 router and replace ours, seeking in house wireless support from that
 vendor. If we can source the RB951-2N at a comparable price to the air
 router, then with our wireless policy in mind it is a sufficient
 replacement with more potential features including gigabit ethernet?


 Getting the routed network components under a single interface has a huge
 amount of benefit to me in regard to getting my guys capable of replacing
 me if that came to pass. The current network requires familiarity with too
 many brands and too many interfaces to have an unmotivated second. If I get
 hit by a bus tomorrow, the company could reach out to the community to get
 a handle on the design even without my poorly documented notes.




 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 6:06 PM, Gilbert Gutierrez 
 mailing-li...@phoenixinternet.net wrote:

 I would also suggest getting a WISP consulting company involved if you
 have questions on what products to use. BGP can be an issue with full
 routes on a CCR due to the way RouterOS is designed with that processor.
 x86 processor handles BGP great. With that being said, I have over a
 Gigabit of traffic flowing over some CCR routers with full routing tables
 from 2 providers and it works fine (for well over a year). I have a third
 provider with one of Dennis' x86 machines and it also works great.

 Gilbert T. Gutierrez, Jr.
 Operations Manager
 Phoenix Internet


 On 3/30/2015 2:51 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

  Steve,



 I would suggest listening to the people here as well as maybe getting a
 WISP consulting company to steer you in the right direction . Also the MT
 vendor should be able to give you all of the recommendations that you need
 on hardware

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

2015-03-30 Thread Ken Hohhof

Seems like the RB850Gx2 gets no love?

From: Josh Baird 
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 6:57 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

We have a ton of 450G's out in the field at towers for smaller sites.  We also 
typically use the 450G as a 'managed router' solution for dedicated business 
customers.  Backhauls go into routed ports, AP's go into a bridge.  When we 
need more interfaces, we start to look at the 2011 for small to medium sized 
sites.  We have 1100AHX2's at our larger sites mostly due to the number of 
interfaces.  We usually don't put switches at sites although this will probably 
change as we are considering deploying the Netonix DC switches at the 
top-of-tower for some sites. 

We do not use MT for the edge and core of our network.  If you do choose to go 
with MT in the edge role, I would look into x86, especially if you are taking 
full routing tables from your provider(s).  As others have said (and I will 
echo); if you are used to a L2 switch like HP/Cisco and need to do much with 
VLANs, you may want to stick with them.

Josh

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 7:45 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:

  Great input guys, I truly appreciate it. 

  On the RB110 AH, I see Includes switch to enable Ethernet bypass mode in two 
ports What is this? Tell me it turns those two ports into a couple if the 
router fails, that would be nice if we opt to fully route our backhauls.

  Currently, at the sites we have routers at, we have all the backhauls and our 
battery backup coming into a switch ( had a failed RSTP implementation 
previously, then moved to manual redundant failover), this connects the a port 
on a router, then the interior port of the router connects to a switch that 
houses the site APs. assuming I dont exceed the number of ports in the device I 
can still bridge ports and achieve essentially the same thing, freeing up both 
battery consumption and cost? I like the modular approach of three things (APs 
tend to be the source of lighting taking out the internal switch, but leaving 
the backhauls intact), but it does add substantial hurt when lighting strikes 
in replacement costs, especially at small sites.

  We have imagestream rebel routers for our two primary, we have never had any 
performance issue or trouble out of them. Without actually going and looking at 
the specs on the two I think I would be safe at this point to replace them with 
the RB110AH, and move them downstream replacing them with these CCRs or a third 
party hardware as we progress to a respectable network if there is any impact?

  This would be a preferred POP router as well, with the option of smaller 
sites using a smaller (cheaper) unit until the site demanded it.

  For the customer, we only provide the air router for cheap wireless, with no 
guarantees on coverage, we set the ESSID based on their name and the key based 
on their MAC, no exceptions, policy is if theyre having problems, we shut the 
wireless off and have them purchase their own AP or wireless router and replace 
ours, seeking in house wireless support from that vendor. If we can source the 
RB951-2N at a comparable price to the air router, then with our wireless policy 
in mind it is a sufficient replacement with more potential features including 
gigabit ethernet?

  Getting the routed network components under a single interface has a huge 
amount of benefit to me in regard to getting my guys capable of replacing me if 
that came to pass. The current network requires familiarity with too many 
brands and too many interfaces to have an unmotivated second. If I get hit by a 
bus tomorrow, the company could reach out to the community to get a handle on 
the design even without my poorly documented notes.

  On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 6:06 PM, Gilbert Gutierrez 
mailing-li...@phoenixinternet.net wrote:

I would also suggest getting a WISP consulting company involved if you have 
questions on what products to use. BGP can be an issue with full routes on a 
CCR due to the way RouterOS is designed with that processor. x86 processor 
handles BGP great. With that being said, I have over a Gigabit of traffic 
flowing over some CCR routers with full routing tables from 2 providers and it 
works fine (for well over a year). I have a third provider with one of Dennis' 
x86 machines and it also works great.

Gilbert T. Gutierrez, Jr.
Operations Manager
Phoenix Internet 

On 3/30/2015 2:51 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

  Steve,

  I would suggest listening to the people here as well as maybe getting a 
WISP consulting company to steer you in the right direction . Also the MT 
vendor should be able to give you all of the recommendations that you need on 
hardware. . Lots of options, however, you may be able to get off with less 
expensive routers but that’s depends on what you are doing, and/or what you are 
planning for.  

  Dennis Burgess, CTO, Link Technologies

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

2015-03-30 Thread Ken Hohhof

Yes.  Or something like this:
http://www.balticnetworks.com/mikrotik-routerboard-850gx2-complete-with-aluminum-desktop-enclosure-and-power-supply.html

Or if you have a 450G with bulging capacitors and are tired of desoldering and 
replacing them, you could slip an 850Gx2 into the old case and get a 
performance boost.


From: That One Guy 
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 7:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

Now, see this leads back to confusion for me, that product is listed as just a 
routerboard. I assume this is so you can use your own housing? For that I would 
just purchase a CA150 separately?

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 7:20 PM, Josh Baird joshba...@gmail.com wrote:

  We just haven't had a chance to try it yet.

  On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 8:18 PM, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com wrote:

Seems like the RB850Gx2 gets no love?

From: Josh Baird 
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 6:57 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations

We have a ton of 450G's out in the field at towers for smaller sites.  We 
also typically use the 450G as a 'managed router' solution for dedicated 
business customers.  Backhauls go into routed ports, AP's go into a bridge.  
When we need more interfaces, we start to look at the 2011 for small to medium 
sized sites.  We have 1100AHX2's at our larger sites mostly due to the number 
of interfaces.  We usually don't put switches at sites although this will 
probably change as we are considering deploying the Netonix DC switches at the 
top-of-tower for some sites. 

We do not use MT for the edge and core of our network.  If you do choose to 
go with MT in the edge role, I would look into x86, especially if you are 
taking full routing tables from your provider(s).  As others have said (and I 
will echo); if you are used to a L2 switch like HP/Cisco and need to do much 
with VLANs, you may want to stick with them.

Josh

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 7:45 PM, That One Guy thatoneguyst...@gmail.com 
wrote:

  Great input guys, I truly appreciate it. 

  On the RB110 AH, I see Includes switch to enable Ethernet bypass mode in 
two ports What is this? Tell me it turns those two ports into a couple if the 
router fails, that would be nice if we opt to fully route our backhauls.

  Currently, at the sites we have routers at, we have all the backhauls and 
our battery backup coming into a switch ( had a failed RSTP implementation 
previously, then moved to manual redundant failover), this connects the a port 
on a router, then the interior port of the router connects to a switch that 
houses the site APs. assuming I dont exceed the number of ports in the device I 
can still bridge ports and achieve essentially the same thing, freeing up both 
battery consumption and cost? I like the modular approach of three things (APs 
tend to be the source of lighting taking out the internal switch, but leaving 
the backhauls intact), but it does add substantial hurt when lighting strikes 
in replacement costs, especially at small sites.

  We have imagestream rebel routers for our two primary, we have never had 
any performance issue or trouble out of them. Without actually going and 
looking at the specs on the two I think I would be safe at this point to 
replace them with the RB110AH, and move them downstream replacing them with 
these CCRs or a third party hardware as we progress to a respectable network if 
there is any impact?

  This would be a preferred POP router as well, with the option of smaller 
sites using a smaller (cheaper) unit until the site demanded it.

  For the customer, we only provide the air router for cheap wireless, with 
no guarantees on coverage, we set the ESSID based on their name and the key 
based on their MAC, no exceptions, policy is if theyre having problems, we shut 
the wireless off and have them purchase their own AP or wireless router and 
replace ours, seeking in house wireless support from that vendor. If we can 
source the RB951-2N at a comparable price to the air router, then with our 
wireless policy in mind it is a sufficient replacement with more potential 
features including gigabit ethernet?


  Getting the routed network components under a single interface has a huge 
amount of benefit to me in regard to getting my guys capable of replacing me if 
that came to pass. The current network requires familiarity with too many 
brands and too many interfaces to have an unmotivated second. If I get hit by a 
bus tomorrow, the company could reach out to the community to get a handle on 
the design even without my poorly documented notes.




  On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 6:06 PM, Gilbert Gutierrez 
mailing-li...@phoenixinternet.net wrote:

I would also suggest getting a WISP consulting company involved if you 
have questions on what products to use. BGP can be an issue with full routes on 
a CCR due to the way RouterOS

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Pros/Cons and recomendations