Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

[chuck]

DIA and bandwidth usage cost is going to zero.  
But the port charge to access that DIA is not really going down much.  
From: Faisal Imtiaz 
Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 1:28 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

I charge you for the Coke ?  and the Fries separate from the Burger ? 
or do you want to do a Combo Package ? 

Most people often forget that for a Tier 1 provider, there is NO COST of IP 
TRANSIT..
the cost is all but the cost of infrastructure, maintenance  and operations...

So, weather it is translated into a 'pay for DIA' or pay for 'Port'  it is all 
a matter of presentation.

Is the internet access going to go to Zero Cost ?   NO it is not (ever !)

Is the 'premium' charge for internet access going to become negligible ?   Yes 
it is ... 


My 2 cents worth ...

BTW, we will be more than happy to sell IP Transit out of our POP's for less 
than the rate we pay for to our UPstreams !

(Dallas / Miami/ Atlanta, Ashburn)

Regards

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net




  From: ch...@wbmfg.com
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 10:41:38 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

  Where you own the fiber.  I am talking about zero for DIA.  Port charges 
only. 

  From: Mike Hammett
  Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:32 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

  Where is transit zero?




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: ch...@wbmfg.com
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 6:30:57 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!


  I know of one case where it is zero now. 

  From: Mike Hammett
  Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:24 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

  It won't hit zero, the metric will just shift to gigabit.




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: ch...@wbmfg.com
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 6:18:15 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!


  The trend is toward zero.  Just port charges. 

  Just like long distance did 10 years ago. 

  From: Josh Reynolds
  Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:16 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

  You may be paying in the lowest rate bracket for the amount of bandwidth. 
I've never heard anything lower unless you were in the 100G+ bracket.

  On Oct 5, 2017 5:21 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

I pay rates lower than 5 cents per meg...

From: Chris Fabien
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 3:59 PM
To: af@afmug.com
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

For a new startup, the pricing you listed at 2.2/meg plus $750, that 
actually sounds pretty reasonable to get you into a fiber circuit in the 
100-300 meg range.  

You're not going to be getting 20 cents per meg for DIA unless you are 
buying a 10gig circuit in a datacenter or other very competitive market.

Long term, arranging transport to a data center is the right direction, but 
it usually isn't cost effective until you are over 1Gig of traffic. Unless you 
happen to be close to stimulus built fiber you can connect to really cheap.

On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Al Rachide <alrach...@gmail.com> wrote:

  We are getting ready to go live from a small connection in our office, 
just to the local community, using a omni antenna. We will be expanding 
throughout three counties in eastern NC. Having read a number of post where 
others are claiming rates as low as $0.20 per mbit/sec, we can't get anything 
here for less than $2.20 per mbit/sec, PLUS a fixed loop fee of $750.00 per 
month per pop. So, how can we find a cheaper backhaul solution here in the 
boonies of NC? We have CenturyLink and Spectrum available for local connection, 
but would like to know about other options for the actual internet / backhaul 
connection. PS: We attended our first WISPA convention in Memphis and it will 
not be the last! 


  Al Rachide
  Eastern Caroline Broadband, LLC
  Pink Hill, NC 28572

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

[Tim Reichhart]

If you have charter talk to somebody in WBI aka wholesale who can give you 
better rate then what regular business can give you.  

Tim



 

-Original Message-
From: "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Date: 10/06/17 03:28
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!


I charge you for the Coke ?  and the Fries separate from the Burger ? 
or do you want to do a Combo Package ? 


Most people often forget that for a Tier 1 provider, there is NO COST of IP 
TRANSIT..
the cost is all but the cost of infrastructure, maintenance  and operations...


So, weather it is translated into a 'pay for DIA' or pay for 'Port'  it is all 
a matter of presentation.


Is the internet access going to go to Zero Cost ?   NO it is not (ever !)


Is the 'premium' charge for internet access going to become negligible ?   Yes 
it is ... 




My 2 cents worth ...


BTW, we will be more than happy to sell IP Transit out of our POP's for less 
than the rate we pay for to our UPstreams !


(Dallas / Miami/ Atlanta, Ashburn)


Regards


Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net


From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 10:41:38 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!


Where you own the fiber.  I am talking about zero for DIA.  Port charges only. 

 
From: Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:32 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!
 
Where is transit zero?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP





From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 6:30:57 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!


I know of one case where it is zero now. 

 
From: Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!
 
It won't hit zero, the metric will just shift to gigabit.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP





From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 6:18:15 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!


The trend is toward zero.  Just port charges. 
 
Just like long distance did 10 years ago. 

 
From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!
 

You may be paying in the lowest rate bracket for the amount of bandwidth. I've 
never heard anything lower unless you were in the 100G+ bracket.

 
On Oct 5, 2017 5:21 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

I pay rates lower than 5 cents per meg...

 

From: Chris Fabien
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 3:59 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!
 
For a new startup, the pricing you listed at 2.2/meg plus $750, that actually 
sounds pretty reasonable to get you into a fiber circuit in the 100-300 meg 
range. 
 
You're not going to be getting 20 cents per meg for DIA unless you are buying a 
10gig circuit in a datacenter or other very competitive market.
 
Long term, arranging transport to a data center is the right direction, but it 
usually isn't cost effective until you are over 1Gig of traffic. Unless you 
happen to be close to stimulus built fiber you can connect to really cheap.

 
On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Al Rachide <alrach...@gmail.com> wrote:

We are getting ready to go live from a small connection in our office, just to 
the local community, using a omni antenna. We will be expanding throughout 
three counties in eastern NC. Having read a number of post where others are 
claiming rates as low as $0.20 per mbit/sec, we can't get anything here for 
less than $2.20 per mbit/sec, PLUS a fixed loop fee of $750.00 per month per 
pop. So, how can we find a cheaper backhaul solution here in the boonies of NC? 
We have CenturyLink and Spectrum available for local connection, but would like 
to know about other options for the actual internet / backhaul connection. PS: 
We attended our first WISPA convention in Memphis and it will not be the last!

 
Al Rachide
Eastern Caroline Broadband, LLC
Pink Hill, NC 28572


 

 
 
 

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

[Faisal Imtiaz]

I charge you for the Coke ? and the Fries separate from the Burger ? 
or do you want to do a Combo Package ? 

Most people often forget that for a Tier 1 provider, there is NO COST of IP 
TRANSIT.. 
the cost is all but the cost of infrastructure, maintenance and operations... 

So, weather it is translated into a 'pay for DIA' or pay for 'Port' it is all a 
matter of presentation. 

Is the internet access going to go to Zero Cost ? NO it is not (ever !) 

Is the 'premium' charge for internet access going to become negligible ? Yes it 
is ... 

My 2 cents worth ... 

BTW, we will be more than happy to sell IP Transit out of our POP's for less 
than the rate we pay for to our UPstreams ! 

(Dallas / Miami/ Atlanta, Ashburn) 

Regards 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 10:41:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

> Where you own the fiber. I am talking about zero for DIA. Port charges only.
> From: Mike Hammett
> Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:32 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!
> Where is transit zero?

> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions

> Midwest Internet Exchange

> The Brothers WISP

> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 6:30:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

> I know of one case where it is zero now.
> From: Mike Hammett
> Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:24 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!
> It won't hit zero, the metric will just shift to gigabit.

> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions

> Midwest Internet Exchange

> The Brothers WISP

> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 6:18:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

> The trend is toward zero. Just port charges.
> Just like long distance did 10 years ago.
> From: Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:16 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!
> You may be paying in the lowest rate bracket for the amount of bandwidth. I've
> never heard anything lower unless you were in the 100G+ bracket.
> On Oct 5, 2017 5:21 PM, < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote:

>> I pay rates lower than 5 cents per meg...
>> From: Chris Fabien
>> Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 3:59 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!
>> For a new startup, the pricing you listed at 2.2/meg plus $750, that actually
>> sounds pretty reasonable to get you into a fiber circuit in the 100-300 meg
>> range.
>> You're not going to be getting 20 cents per meg for DIA unless you are 
>> buying a
>> 10gig circuit in a datacenter or other very competitive market.
>> Long term, arranging transport to a data center is the right direction, but 
>> it
>> usually isn't cost effective until you are over 1Gig of traffic. Unless you
>> happen to be close to stimulus built fiber you can connect to really cheap.
>> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Al Rachide < alrach...@gmail.com > wrote:

>>> We are getting ready to go live from a small connection in our office, just 
>>> to
>>> the local community, using a omni antenna. We will be expanding throughout
>>> three counties in eastern NC. Having read a number of post where others are
>>> claiming rates as low as $0.20 per mbit/sec, we can't get anything here for
>>> less than $2.20 per mbit/sec, PLUS a fixed loop fee of $750.00 per month per
>>> pop. So, how can we find a cheaper backhaul solution here in the boonies of 
>>> NC?
>>> We have CenturyLink and Spectrum available for local connection, but would 
>>> like
>>> to know about other options for the actual internet / backhaul connection. 
>>> PS:
>>> We attended our first WISPA convention in Memphis and it will not be the 
>>> last!
>>> Al Rachide
>>> Eastern Caroline Broadband, LLC
>>> Pink Hill, NC 28572

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

[Seth Mattinen]

On 10/6/17 8:03 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Okay, so your transit still costs you something.

Companies don't really separate it out anymore. I feel like that's a 
thing of year's gone by. You want 3 gigs delivered there? $x.



I take it as a clear sign of old school telcom when I see separate port 
and bandwidth charges.

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

[Mike Hammett]

Okay, so your transit still costs you something. 

Companies don't really separate it out anymore. I feel like that's a thing of 
year's gone by. You want 3 gigs delivered there? $x. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 9:41:38 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution! 




Where you own the fiber. I am talking about zero for DIA. Port charges only. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:32 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution! 


Where is transit zero? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 6:30:57 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution! 




I know of one case where it is zero now. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:24 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution! 


It won't hit zero, the metric will just shift to gigabit. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 6:18:15 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution! 




The trend is toward zero. Just port charges. 

Just like long distance did 10 years ago. 




From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:16 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution! 


You may be paying in the lowest rate bracket for the amount of bandwidth. I've 
never heard anything lower unless you were in the 100G+ bracket. 


On Oct 5, 2017 5:21 PM, < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






I pay rates lower than 5 cents per meg... 




From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 3:59 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution! 



For a new startup, the pricing you listed at 2.2/meg plus $750, that actually 
sounds pretty reasonable to get you into a fiber circuit in the 100-300 meg 
range. 

You're not going to be getting 20 cents per meg for DIA unless you are buying a 
10gig circuit in a datacenter or other very competitive market. 

Long term, arranging transport to a data center is the right direction, but it 
usually isn't cost effective until you are over 1Gig of traffic. Unless you 
happen to be close to stimulus built fiber you can connect to really cheap. 



On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Al Rachide < alrach...@gmail.com > wrote: 




We are getting ready to go live from a small connection in our office, just to 
the local community, using a omni antenna. We will be expanding throughout 
three counties in eastern NC. Having read a number of post where others are 
claiming rates as low as $0.20 per mbit/sec, we can't get anything here for 
less than $2.20 per mbit/sec, PLUS a fixed loop fee of $750.00 per month per 
pop. So, how can we find a cheaper backhaul solution here in the boonies of NC? 
We have CenturyLink and Spectrum available for local connection, but would like 
to know about other options for the actual internet / backhaul connection. PS: 
We attended our first WISPA convention in Memphis and it will not be the last! 



Al Rachide 
Eastern Caroline Broadband, LLC 
Pink Hill, NC 28572 

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

[chuck]

Where you own the fiber.  I am talking about zero for DIA.  Port charges only.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:32 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

Where is transit zero?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 6:30:57 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!


I know of one case where it is zero now.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

It won't hit zero, the metric will just shift to gigabit.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 6:18:15 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!


The trend is toward zero.  Just port charges.  

Just like long distance did 10 years ago.  

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

You may be paying in the lowest rate bracket for the amount of bandwidth. I've 
never heard anything lower unless you were in the 100G+ bracket.

On Oct 5, 2017 5:21 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  I pay rates lower than 5 cents per meg...

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 3:59 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

  For a new startup, the pricing you listed at 2.2/meg plus $750, that actually 
sounds pretty reasonable to get you into a fiber circuit in the 100-300 meg 
range.  

  You're not going to be getting 20 cents per meg for DIA unless you are buying 
a 10gig circuit in a datacenter or other very competitive market. 

  Long term, arranging transport to a data center is the right direction, but 
it usually isn't cost effective until you are over 1Gig of traffic. Unless you 
happen to be close to stimulus built fiber you can connect to really cheap. 

  On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Al Rachide <alrach...@gmail.com> wrote:

We are getting ready to go live from a small connection in our office, just 
to the local community, using a omni antenna. We will be expanding throughout 
three counties in eastern NC. Having read a number of post where others are 
claiming rates as low as $0.20 per mbit/sec, we can't get anything here for 
less than $2.20 per mbit/sec, PLUS a fixed loop fee of $750.00 per month per 
pop. So, how can we find a cheaper backhaul solution here in the boonies of NC? 
We have CenturyLink and Spectrum available for local connection, but would like 
to know about other options for the actual internet / backhaul connection. PS: 
We attended our first WISPA convention in Memphis and it will not be the last! 


Al Rachide
Eastern Caroline Broadband, LLC
Pink Hill, NC 28572

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

[Eric Kuhnke]

It's really region/colo/datacenter and operator specific. When you know
that somebody has a cage with 500 1U servers (or blades) in racks hosting
adult web content, you know that their traffic ratios are like 95:5
outbound:inbound...



On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 5:45 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

> I've gotten them to offer me sub $0.20 transit (before $0.20 was cool),
> but never free.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ----------
> *From: *"Eric Kuhnke" <eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, October 5, 2017 7:25:43 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!
>
> several places, if you know the owners/operators of major content source
> ISPs (dedicated hosting/VPS/virtual server/colocation/rack & cage colo)
> that have extremely heavy outbound:inbound traffic ratios, like 9:1 ratio
> or more.
>
> adding a new customer to the same ASN, consisting of a downstream WISP
> that consists of mostly singlehomed eyeballs, with a theoretical 5 or 6
> Gbps evening peak traffic in a sinewave pattern, only has the positive
> effect of very slightly evening out the upstream hosting company's traffic
> ratios with its peers and transit sources. It's almost "free" bandwidth.
>
> Some hosting companies have even sought out such downstream ISPs with the
> goal of bringing their inbound:outbound ratios into better parity for
> peering with larger regional/national ISPs.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 4:32 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
>> Where is transit zero?
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, October 5, 2017 6:30:57 PM
>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!
>>
>> I know of one case where it is zero now.
>>
>> *From:* Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:24 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!
>>
>> It won't hit zero, the metric will just shift to gigabit.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, October 5, 2017 6:18:15 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!
>>
>> The trend is toward zero.  Just port charges.
>>
>> Ju

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

[Mike Hammett]

I've gotten them to offer me sub $0.20 transit (before $0.20 was cool), but 
never free. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Eric Kuhnke" <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 7:25:43 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution! 


several places, if you know the owners/operators of major content source ISPs 
(dedicated hosting/VPS/virtual server/colocation/rack & cage colo) that have 
extremely heavy outbound:inbound traffic ratios, like 9:1 ratio or more. 


adding a new customer to the same ASN, consisting of a downstream WISP that 
consists of mostly singlehomed eyeballs, with a theoretical 5 or 6 Gbps evening 
peak traffic in a sinewave pattern, only has the positive effect of very 
slightly evening out the upstream hosting company's traffic ratios with its 
peers and transit sources. It's almost "free" bandwidth. 


Some hosting companies have even sought out such downstream ISPs with the goal 
of bringing their inbound:outbound ratios into better parity for peering with 
larger regional/national ISPs. 






On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 4:32 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Where is transit zero? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 6:30:57 PM 


Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution! 




I know of one case where it is zero now. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:24 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution! 


It won't hit zero, the metric will just shift to gigabit. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 6:18:15 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution! 




The trend is toward zero. Just port charges. 

Just like long distance did 10 years ago. 




From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:16 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution! 


You may be paying in the lowest rate bracket for the amount of bandwidth. I've 
never heard anything lower unless you were in the 100G+ bracket. 


On Oct 5, 2017 5:21 PM, < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






I pay rates lower than 5 cents per meg... 




From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 3:59 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution! 



For a new startup, the pricing you listed at 2.2/meg plus $750, that actually 
sounds pretty reasonable to get you into a fiber circuit in the 100-300 meg 
range. 

You're not going to be getting 20 cents per meg for DIA unless you are buying a 
10gig circuit in a datacenter or other very competitive market. 

Long term, arranging transport to a data center is the right direction, but it 
usually isn't cost effective until you are over 1Gig of traffic. Unless you 
happen to be close to stimulus built fiber you can connect to really cheap. 



On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Al Rachide < alrach...@gmail.com > wrote: 




We are getting ready to go live from a small connection in our office, just to 
the local community, using a omni antenna. We will be expanding throughout 
three counties in eastern NC. Having read a number of post where others are 
claiming rates as low as $0.20 per mbit/sec, we can't get anything here for 
less than $2.20 per mbit/sec, PLUS a fixed loop fee of $750.00 per month per 
pop. So, how can we find a cheaper backhaul solution here in the boonies of NC? 
We have CenturyLink and Spectrum available for local connection, but would like 
to know about other options for the actual internet / backhaul connection. PS: 
We attended our first WISPA convention in Memphis and it will not be the last! 



Al Rachide 
Eastern Caroline Broadband, LLC 
Pink Hill, NC 28572 

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

[Eric Kuhnke]

several places, if you know the owners/operators of major content source
ISPs (dedicated hosting/VPS/virtual server/colocation/rack & cage colo)
that have extremely heavy outbound:inbound traffic ratios, like 9:1 ratio
or more.

adding a new customer to the same ASN, consisting of a downstream WISP that
consists of mostly singlehomed eyeballs, with a theoretical 5 or 6 Gbps
evening peak traffic in a sinewave pattern, only has the positive effect of
very slightly evening out the upstream hosting company's traffic ratios
with its peers and transit sources. It's almost "free" bandwidth.

Some hosting companies have even sought out such downstream ISPs with the
goal of bringing their inbound:outbound ratios into better parity for
peering with larger regional/national ISPs.



On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 4:32 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

> Where is transit zero?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, October 5, 2017 6:30:57 PM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!
>
> I know of one case where it is zero now.
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:24 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!
>
> It won't hit zero, the metric will just shift to gigabit.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, October 5, 2017 6:18:15 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!
>
> The trend is toward zero.  Just port charges.
>
> Just like long distance did 10 years ago.
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:16 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!
>
> You may be paying in the lowest rate bracket for the amount of bandwidth.
> I've never heard anything lower unless you were in the 100G+ bracket.
>
> On Oct 5, 2017 5:21 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
> I pay rates lower than 5 cents per meg...
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 5, 2017 3:59 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!
>
> For a new startup, the pricing you listed at 2.2/meg plus $750, that
> actually sounds pretty reasonable to get you into a fiber circuit in the
> 100-300 meg range.
>
> You're not going to be getting 20 cents per meg for DIA unless you are
> buying a 10gig circuit in a datacenter or other very competitive market.
>
> Long term, arranging transport to a data center is the right direction,
> but it usually isn't cost effective until you are over 1Gig of traffic.
> Unless you happen to be close to stimulus built fiber you can connect to
> really cheap.
>
> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Al Rachide <alrach...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> We are getting ready to go live from a small connection in our office,
>> just to the local community, using a omni antenna. We will be expanding
>> throughout three counties in eastern NC. Having read a number of post where
>> others are claiming rates as low as $0.20 per mbit/sec, we can't get
>> anything here for less than $2.20 per mbit/sec, PLUS a fixed loop fee of
>> $750.00 per month per pop. So, how can we find a cheaper backhaul solution
>> here in the boonies of NC? We have CenturyLink and Spectrum available for
>> local connection, but would like to know about other options for the actual
>> internet / backhaul connection. PS: We attended our first WISPA convention
>> in Memphis and it will not be the last!
>>
>> Al Rachide
>> Eastern Caroline Broadband, LLC
>> Pink Hill, NC 28572
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

[Mike Hammett]

Where is transit zero? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 6:30:57 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution! 




I know of one case where it is zero now. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:24 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution! 


It won't hit zero, the metric will just shift to gigabit. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 6:18:15 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution! 




The trend is toward zero. Just port charges. 

Just like long distance did 10 years ago. 




From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:16 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution! 


You may be paying in the lowest rate bracket for the amount of bandwidth. I've 
never heard anything lower unless you were in the 100G+ bracket. 


On Oct 5, 2017 5:21 PM, < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






I pay rates lower than 5 cents per meg... 




From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 3:59 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution! 



For a new startup, the pricing you listed at 2.2/meg plus $750, that actually 
sounds pretty reasonable to get you into a fiber circuit in the 100-300 meg 
range. 

You're not going to be getting 20 cents per meg for DIA unless you are buying a 
10gig circuit in a datacenter or other very competitive market. 

Long term, arranging transport to a data center is the right direction, but it 
usually isn't cost effective until you are over 1Gig of traffic. Unless you 
happen to be close to stimulus built fiber you can connect to really cheap. 



On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Al Rachide < alrach...@gmail.com > wrote: 




We are getting ready to go live from a small connection in our office, just to 
the local community, using a omni antenna. We will be expanding throughout 
three counties in eastern NC. Having read a number of post where others are 
claiming rates as low as $0.20 per mbit/sec, we can't get anything here for 
less than $2.20 per mbit/sec, PLUS a fixed loop fee of $750.00 per month per 
pop. So, how can we find a cheaper backhaul solution here in the boonies of NC? 
We have CenturyLink and Spectrum available for local connection, but would like 
to know about other options for the actual internet / backhaul connection. PS: 
We attended our first WISPA convention in Memphis and it will not be the last! 



Al Rachide 
Eastern Caroline Broadband, LLC 
Pink Hill, NC 28572 

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

[chuck]

I know of one case where it is zero now.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

It won't hit zero, the metric will just shift to gigabit.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 6:18:15 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!


The trend is toward zero.  Just port charges.  

Just like long distance did 10 years ago.  

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

You may be paying in the lowest rate bracket for the amount of bandwidth. I've 
never heard anything lower unless you were in the 100G+ bracket.

On Oct 5, 2017 5:21 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  I pay rates lower than 5 cents per meg...

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 3:59 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

  For a new startup, the pricing you listed at 2.2/meg plus $750, that actually 
sounds pretty reasonable to get you into a fiber circuit in the 100-300 meg 
range.  

  You're not going to be getting 20 cents per meg for DIA unless you are buying 
a 10gig circuit in a datacenter or other very competitive market. 

  Long term, arranging transport to a data center is the right direction, but 
it usually isn't cost effective until you are over 1Gig of traffic. Unless you 
happen to be close to stimulus built fiber you can connect to really cheap. 

  On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Al Rachide <alrach...@gmail.com> wrote:

We are getting ready to go live from a small connection in our office, just 
to the local community, using a omni antenna. We will be expanding throughout 
three counties in eastern NC. Having read a number of post where others are 
claiming rates as low as $0.20 per mbit/sec, we can't get anything here for 
less than $2.20 per mbit/sec, PLUS a fixed loop fee of $750.00 per month per 
pop. So, how can we find a cheaper backhaul solution here in the boonies of NC? 
We have CenturyLink and Spectrum available for local connection, but would like 
to know about other options for the actual internet / backhaul connection. PS: 
We attended our first WISPA convention in Memphis and it will not be the last! 


Al Rachide
Eastern Caroline Broadband, LLC
Pink Hill, NC 28572

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

[Mike Hammett]

It won't hit zero, the metric will just shift to gigabit. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 6:18:15 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution! 




The trend is toward zero. Just port charges. 

Just like long distance did 10 years ago. 




From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:16 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution! 


You may be paying in the lowest rate bracket for the amount of bandwidth. I've 
never heard anything lower unless you were in the 100G+ bracket. 


On Oct 5, 2017 5:21 PM, < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






I pay rates lower than 5 cents per meg... 




From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 3:59 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution! 



For a new startup, the pricing you listed at 2.2/meg plus $750, that actually 
sounds pretty reasonable to get you into a fiber circuit in the 100-300 meg 
range. 

You're not going to be getting 20 cents per meg for DIA unless you are buying a 
10gig circuit in a datacenter or other very competitive market. 

Long term, arranging transport to a data center is the right direction, but it 
usually isn't cost effective until you are over 1Gig of traffic. Unless you 
happen to be close to stimulus built fiber you can connect to really cheap. 



On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Al Rachide < alrach...@gmail.com > wrote: 




We are getting ready to go live from a small connection in our office, just to 
the local community, using a omni antenna. We will be expanding throughout 
three counties in eastern NC. Having read a number of post where others are 
claiming rates as low as $0.20 per mbit/sec, we can't get anything here for 
less than $2.20 per mbit/sec, PLUS a fixed loop fee of $750.00 per month per 
pop. So, how can we find a cheaper backhaul solution here in the boonies of NC? 
We have CenturyLink and Spectrum available for local connection, but would like 
to know about other options for the actual internet / backhaul connection. PS: 
We attended our first WISPA convention in Memphis and it will not be the last! 



Al Rachide 
Eastern Caroline Broadband, LLC 
Pink Hill, NC 28572 

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

[chuck]

The trend is toward zero.  Just port charges.  

Just like long distance did 10 years ago.  

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

You may be paying in the lowest rate bracket for the amount of bandwidth. I've 
never heard anything lower unless you were in the 100G+ bracket.

On Oct 5, 2017 5:21 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  I pay rates lower than 5 cents per meg...

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 3:59 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

  For a new startup, the pricing you listed at 2.2/meg plus $750, that actually 
sounds pretty reasonable to get you into a fiber circuit in the 100-300 meg 
range.  

  You're not going to be getting 20 cents per meg for DIA unless you are buying 
a 10gig circuit in a datacenter or other very competitive market. 

  Long term, arranging transport to a data center is the right direction, but 
it usually isn't cost effective until you are over 1Gig of traffic. Unless you 
happen to be close to stimulus built fiber you can connect to really cheap. 

  On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Al Rachide <alrach...@gmail.com> wrote:

We are getting ready to go live from a small connection in our office, just 
to the local community, using a omni antenna. We will be expanding throughout 
three counties in eastern NC. Having read a number of post where others are 
claiming rates as low as $0.20 per mbit/sec, we can't get anything here for 
less than $2.20 per mbit/sec, PLUS a fixed loop fee of $750.00 per month per 
pop. So, how can we find a cheaper backhaul solution here in the boonies of NC? 
We have CenturyLink and Spectrum available for local connection, but would like 
to know about other options for the actual internet / backhaul connection. PS: 
We attended our first WISPA convention in Memphis and it will not be the last! 


Al Rachide
Eastern Caroline Broadband, LLC
Pink Hill, NC 28572

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

[Josh Reynolds]

You may be paying in the lowest rate bracket for the amount of bandwidth.
I've never heard anything lower unless you were in the 100G+ bracket.

On Oct 5, 2017 5:21 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

I pay rates lower than 5 cents per meg...

*From:* Chris Fabien
*Sent:* Thursday, October 5, 2017 3:59 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

For a new startup, the pricing you listed at 2.2/meg plus $750, that
actually sounds pretty reasonable to get you into a fiber circuit in the
100-300 meg range.

You're not going to be getting 20 cents per meg for DIA unless you are
buying a 10gig circuit in a datacenter or other very competitive market.

Long term, arranging transport to a data center is the right direction, but
it usually isn't cost effective until you are over 1Gig of traffic. Unless
you happen to be close to stimulus built fiber you can connect to really
cheap.

On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Al Rachide <alrach...@gmail.com> wrote:

> We are getting ready to go live from a small connection in our office,
> just to the local community, using a omni antenna. We will be expanding
> throughout three counties in eastern NC. Having read a number of post where
> others are claiming rates as low as $0.20 per mbit/sec, we can't get
> anything here for less than $2.20 per mbit/sec, PLUS a fixed loop fee of
> $750.00 per month per pop. So, how can we find a cheaper backhaul solution
> here in the boonies of NC? We have CenturyLink and Spectrum available for
> local connection, but would like to know about other options for the actual
> internet / backhaul connection. PS: We attended our first WISPA convention
> in Memphis and it will not be the last!
>
> Al Rachide
> Eastern Caroline Broadband, LLC
> Pink Hill, NC 28572
>

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

[chuck]

I pay rates lower than 5 cents per meg...

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 3:59 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

For a new startup, the pricing you listed at 2.2/meg plus $750, that actually 
sounds pretty reasonable to get you into a fiber circuit in the 100-300 meg 
range.  

You're not going to be getting 20 cents per meg for DIA unless you are buying a 
10gig circuit in a datacenter or other very competitive market. 

Long term, arranging transport to a data center is the right direction, but it 
usually isn't cost effective until you are over 1Gig of traffic. Unless you 
happen to be close to stimulus built fiber you can connect to really cheap. 

On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Al Rachide <alrach...@gmail.com> wrote:

  We are getting ready to go live from a small connection in our office, just 
to the local community, using a omni antenna. We will be expanding throughout 
three counties in eastern NC. Having read a number of post where others are 
claiming rates as low as $0.20 per mbit/sec, we can't get anything here for 
less than $2.20 per mbit/sec, PLUS a fixed loop fee of $750.00 per month per 
pop. So, how can we find a cheaper backhaul solution here in the boonies of NC? 
We have CenturyLink and Spectrum available for local connection, but would like 
to know about other options for the actual internet / backhaul connection. PS: 
We attended our first WISPA convention in Memphis and it will not be the last! 


  Al Rachide
  Eastern Caroline Broadband, LLC
  Pink Hill, NC 28572

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

[Chris Fabien]

For a new startup, the pricing you listed at 2.2/meg plus $750, that
actually sounds pretty reasonable to get you into a fiber circuit in the
100-300 meg range.

You're not going to be getting 20 cents per meg for DIA unless you are
buying a 10gig circuit in a datacenter or other very competitive market.

Long term, arranging transport to a data center is the right direction, but
it usually isn't cost effective until you are over 1Gig of traffic. Unless
you happen to be close to stimulus built fiber you can connect to really
cheap.

On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Al Rachide  wrote:

> We are getting ready to go live from a small connection in our office,
> just to the local community, using a omni antenna. We will be expanding
> throughout three counties in eastern NC. Having read a number of post where
> others are claiming rates as low as $0.20 per mbit/sec, we can't get
> anything here for less than $2.20 per mbit/sec, PLUS a fixed loop fee of
> $750.00 per month per pop. So, how can we find a cheaper backhaul solution
> here in the boonies of NC? We have CenturyLink and Spectrum available for
> local connection, but would like to know about other options for the actual
> internet / backhaul connection. PS: We attended our first WISPA convention
> in Memphis and it will not be the last!
>
> Al Rachide
> Eastern Caroline Broadband, LLC
> Pink Hill, NC 28572
>

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

[Mike Hammett]

That $0.20 is only going to be in the major markets. There's not much 
immediately near you. 

Crown Castle has some fiber near Jacksonville, but it doesn't really go 
anywhere. 

Altice has a ring that drops by Kingston, but I'm not sure how they connect to 
the rest of the world. 


PalmettoNet may be in Kingston as well. They say they have a POP there, but 
they don't show any fiber there, so I'm not sure how that works. Otherwise, 
they're in Jacksonville, New Bern, Greenville, Wilson, Fayetteville, 
Smithfield, etc. They can get you to Atlanta. 


Spectrum provides transport to WISPs, sometimes reasonably. Check with FISPA. 
THey had a deal with Charter. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Al Rachide"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 8:11:24 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution! 


We are getting ready to go live from a small connection in our office, just to 
the local community, using a omni antenna. We will be expanding throughout 
three counties in eastern NC. Having read a number of post where others are 
claiming rates as low as $0.20 per mbit/sec, we can't get anything here for 
less than $2.20 per mbit/sec, PLUS a fixed loop fee of $750.00 per month per 
pop. So, how can we find a cheaper backhaul solution here in the boonies of NC? 
We have CenturyLink and Spectrum available for local connection, but would like 
to know about other options for the actual internet / backhaul connection. PS: 
We attended our first WISPA convention in Memphis and it will not be the last! 



Al Rachide 
Eastern Caroline Broadband, LLC 
Pink Hill, NC 28572 

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

[Lewis Bergman]

Try to find a close peering facility and transport. May not help. Upstream
pricing is highly localized. You should always try to drive down your cost
but don't be surprised whenyour cost doesn't reach others who habe access
to better connected facility.

On Sat, Jun 24, 2017, 8:11 AM Al Rachide  wrote:

> We are getting ready to go live from a small connection in our office,
> just to the local community, using a omni antenna. We will be expanding
> throughout three counties in eastern NC. Having read a number of post where
> others are claiming rates as low as $0.20 per mbit/sec, we can't get
> anything here for less than $2.20 per mbit/sec, PLUS a fixed loop fee of
> $750.00 per month per pop. So, how can we find a cheaper backhaul solution
> here in the boonies of NC? We have CenturyLink and Spectrum available for
> local connection, but would like to know about other options for the actual
> internet / backhaul connection. PS: We attended our first WISPA convention
> in Memphis and it will not be the last!
>
> Al Rachide
> Eastern Caroline Broadband, LLC
> Pink Hill, NC 28572
>

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP tool to burn through trees

[Chuck McCown]

Steve Buscemi in “Fargo- Payback Time”

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 3:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP tool to burn through trees

Yeah, that about melted my mind.


On 5/11/2015 4:42 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYKg0gbRFns 


  Who needs NLOS gear when you have this!


  -- 

  Darin Steffl 
  Minnesota WiFi
  www.mnwifi.com
  507-634-WiFi
   Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP tool to burn through trees

[Jay Weekley]

Gas and matches are cheaper.

Adam Moffett wrote:

Yeah, that about melted my mind.

On 5/11/2015 4:42 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYKg0gbRFns


Who needs NLOS gear when you have this!

--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com http://www.mnwifi.com/
507-634-WiFi
http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi Like us on Facebook 
http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP tool to burn through trees

[Glen Waldrop]

I need one.

Lemme check my funds... lol


  - Original Message - 
  From: Darin Steffl 
  To: memb...@wispa.org ; af@afmug.com ; Principal WISPA Member List 
  Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 3:42 PM
  Subject: [AFMUG] New WISP tool to burn through trees


  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYKg0gbRFns




  Who needs NLOS gear when you have this!



  -- 

  Darin Steffl
  Minnesota WiFi
  www.mnwifi.com
  507-634-WiFi
   Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP tool to burn through trees

[David Milholen]

Yeah, but not fun when fire dept is called LOL


On 5/11/2015 4:26 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:

Gas and matches are cheaper.

Adam Moffett wrote:

Yeah, that about melted my mind.

On 5/11/2015 4:42 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYKg0gbRFns


Who needs NLOS gear when you have this!

--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com http://www.mnwifi.com/
507-634-WiFi
http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi Like us on Facebook 
http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi






--

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP tool to burn through trees

[Jay Weekley]

I've recommended that technique but no one has taken me up on it that I 
know of.


David Milholen wrote:

Yeah, but not fun when fire dept is called LOL


On 5/11/2015 4:26 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:

Gas and matches are cheaper.

Adam Moffett wrote:

Yeah, that about melted my mind.

On 5/11/2015 4:42 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYKg0gbRFns


Who needs NLOS gear when you have this!

--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com http://www.mnwifi.com/
507-634-WiFi
http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi Like us on Facebook 
http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi






--

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Trevor Bough]

You guys have offered so much great advice. I really, truly appreciate it.
I just booked my plane tickets and registered for Animal Farm! Hope to see
you guys there! Can't wait to learn more and get this thing rolling! Thanks
again!

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:21 PM, Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi guys, long time listener, first time caller. I'm looking at starting a
 new rural WISP and was wondering if you guys could share some of the things
 you wish you had known when you started out. Things to absolutely stay away
 from, things that you didn't think of first, but made your life 10x easier,
 etc. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Josh Reynolds]

Huh? You mean like, your company or yourself as an individual?

I'm pretty sure I would not let a third party *touch* anything on our 
network (sans vendors), let alone install an airmax radio.


josh reynolds :: chief information officer
spitwspots :: www.spitwspots.com

On 01/06/2015 04:54 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:

Wha?  I think doing your own installs is fine, especially in the
beginning.  You learn a few things, can get your CPE set up the way you
want it, and save money.

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 7:51 PM, Jon Langeler jon-ispli...@michwave.net
wrote:


don't do your own installs.

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Josh Reynolds]

Current USDA grants are 15% matching...

josh reynolds :: chief information officer
spitwspots :: www.spitwspots.com

On 01/06/2015 05:34 PM, Craig House wrote:

I've only known personally of a handfull of them that have got the grants. Most 
never got started due to the govt regulations that go with it. If you get a 
500k grant generally you have to raise the matching 500k in investors. The 
majority of the first 500k from the govt will be spent on grant compliance and 
paperwork. So you really get nowhere further. And as an investor, I would have 
a big fat 0 interest in anything that the government is going to have a major 
say in you running. Maybe it's just me but I HATE bureaucracy and red tape. I 
think most WISP owners and small business people do. Its counter productive to 
getting the real task accomplished if you spend all your time dealing with red 
tape unless you have a free employee that just likes doing it.

Craig


- Original Message -

From: Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 8:23:29 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP



Ha ha what are the big problems with them? I know there have to be problems due 
to the fact you are dealing with the government.
On Jan 6, 2015 8:18 PM, Craig House  cr...@totalhighspeed.net  wrote:



Run away dont walk



From: Trevor Bough  trevorbo...@gmail.com 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 8:17:48 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP



You guys are great! Thank you for all of the great advice! I truly appreciate 
it. Does anyone have any experience with government grants?

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Caleb Knauer]

Customers need tech support.  Residential will need more support but
you can work with the urgency.  Business will need less support
typically but will be much more urgent.  It's hard to grow a business
if you're the only one putting out fires.  Have support in place
before it gets rolling hard.

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 7:21 PM, Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi guys, long time listener, first time caller. I'm looking at starting a
 new rural WISP and was wondering if you guys could share some of the things
 you wish you had known when you started out. Things to absolutely stay away
 from, things that you didn't think of first, but made your life 10x easier,
 etc. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Adam Moffett]

ASN?  What Wimax product are you using?

Think long and hard about your upstream options. Im sitting here with 
a down network because of our ASN hanging out in a BGP void our 
upstream created. My boss can fire me over this, if youre the owner, 
you wont have anybody to fire


On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 9:43 PM, Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:


I think Travis Hayes said in his speech at AF one year that a good
accountant and a good lawyer are both critical.


+1 on the accountant.  You need an accountant.

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Trevor Bough
trevorbo...@gmail.com mailto:trevorbo...@gmail.com wrote:

Thank you very much for the specifics! I figured a grant
would come with a ton of paperwork, but not to that extent.

On Jan 6, 2015 8:31 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies
m...@mailmt.com mailto:m...@mailmt.com wrote:

Trevor,

We received a grant about 4-5 years ago.  Almost done
with the
project.  I would not even think about how hard it would
have been
juggling the grant stuff with a new startup unless I had
a bunch of
startup investment money.

Usually the grants are for build out only, operational
stuff is not
included.  For example, we pay at least $25k a year for
auditors and
accountants because of the grant.  Not to mention we hired a
bookkeeper just to keep track of government paperwork
dealing with the
grant.  Neither of those are fundable expenses.

--
Best regards,
 Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com http://www.MyakkaTech.com

Proud Sponsor of the Myakka City Relay For Life
http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL

Please Donate at

http://main.acsevents.org/site/TR/RelayForLife/RFLFY12FL?team_id=1030009pg=teamfr_id=37555
--

Tuesday, January 6, 2015, 9:23:29 PM, you wrote:

TB Ha ha what are the big problems with them? I know
there have
TB to be problems due to the fact you are dealing with
the government.

TB On Jan 6, 2015 8:18 PM, Craig House
TB cr...@totalhighspeed.net
mailto:cr...@totalhighspeed.net wrote:
TB Run away dont walk







TB From: Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com
mailto:trevorbo...@gmail.com
TB To: af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com
TB Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 8:17:48 PM
TB Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP


TB You guys are great! Thank you for all of the great
advice! I
TB truly appreciate it. Does anyone have any experience with
TB government grants?












---
This email is free from viruses and malware because
avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com







--
All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that 
the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if 
you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all 
means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Josh Baird]

I second this.

On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 2:51 AM, Mark Radabaugh m...@amplex.net wrote:

 Attend either Animal Farm (www.afmug.com) or the WISPA show in St Louis
 http://www.cvent.com/events/wispamerica-2015/event-summary-5fddb419659f4b57871bfd2d0b690a85.aspx


 You will learn a lot at either show.

 Mark

 On Jan 6, 2015, at 7:21 PM, Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi guys, long time listener, first time caller. I'm looking at starting a
 new rural WISP and was wondering if you guys could share some of the things
 you wish you had known when you started out. Things to absolutely stay away
 from, things that you didn't think of first, but made your life 10x easier,
 etc. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Jason McKemie]

Also, don't plan on doing anything else for a while. And I mean ANYTHING
else - a bathroom break might be possible, however.

On Wednesday, January 7, 2015, Caleb Knauer cknauer.li...@gmail.com wrote:

 Customers need tech support.  Residential will need more support but
 you can work with the urgency.  Business will need less support
 typically but will be much more urgent.  It's hard to grow a business
 if you're the only one putting out fires.  Have support in place
 before it gets rolling hard.

 On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 7:21 PM, Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com
 javascript:; wrote:
  Hi guys, long time listener, first time caller. I'm looking at starting a
  new rural WISP and was wondering if you guys could share some of the
 things
  you wish you had known when you started out. Things to absolutely stay
 away
  from, things that you didn't think of first, but made your life 10x
 easier,
  etc. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Trevor Bough]

Thank you guys so much for all of the info. I'm so glad that I stumbled
upon this community. You guys are great!

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Chuck McCown]

Things to do:
  Pick the right radio the first time.  I am partial to Cambium products.  
  This is like getting married and having a bunch of kids and having a bunch of 
inlaws move in with you.  Don’t screw it up.  You have to live with it 
24/7/365.  

  Get into fiber as soon as you can.  Take fiber feeds from your upstream 
provider if you can.  Take fiber to your tower sites if you can.  

  Pick the right billing system and right bookkeeping system.  Quickbooks is 
good for accounting, but it is not so good for billing for a WISP.  It can do 
it, but there are better systems out there.  It will get you by initially.  

  Stay the right size.  If you are a very small operation you can make good 
money.  If you are a large operation you can make good money.  There is middle 
ground where you are continually broke but need to grow.  Try to avoid that.  A 
one man operation can make more money than a 5 man operation in this business.  
Try to avoid hiring anyone for as long as possible.  (That does not include an 
accountant.  You must have a good accountant).

  Keep the company always in your political control.  If you bring in partners 
or gift stock to employees, make sure that your ownership percentage is always 
the majority.  Don’t count on ANYONE siding with you during a dispute.  Morals, 
ethics, honesty, loyalty, religion all go out the window when things turn ugly. 
 Sad to see.  

Things not to do:
  Do not do a flat network.  Feed each access point from a router port or a 
VLAN.  Do not allow APs to even know of the existence of other APs on the same 
tower.

  Do not scrimp on CAT 5 cable.  Use quality cable.  Shielded at all AP sites.

  Do not scrimp on backhaul capacity or quality.  If/when you can justify it, 
put in licensed radios for backhaul.  

  Do not hire friends or relatives.  
  Do not scrimp on backup power.  Make sure everything can run for at least 12 
hours without external power.  
  Do not futz around with being an email provider.  Don’t even do any hosting 
right at first.  
  I would not do paper bills.  Keep it all online.  ACH /Credit card payment 
receipt is a must.  
  Do not do installs in marginal locations.  One marginal customer can eat up 
all of your time and they will give you a black eye in the marketplace.  
 

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Bill Prince]

*** Take all the free advice from Chuck McCown you can get...

bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com

On 1/7/2015 7:39 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Things to do:

Pick the right radio the first time.  I am partial to Cambium
products.
This is like getting married and having a bunch of kids and having
a bunch of inlaws move in with you.  Don’t screw it up.  You have
to live with it 24/7/365.
Get into fiber as soon as you can.  Take fiber feeds from your
upstream provider if you can.  Take fiber to your tower sites if
you can.
Pick the right billing system and right bookkeeping system. 
Quickbooks is good for accounting, but it is not so good for

billing for a WISP.  It can do it, but there are better systems
out there.  It will get you by initially.
Stay the right size.  If you are a very small operation you can
make good money.  If you are a large operation you can make good
money.  There is middle ground where you are continually broke but
need to grow.  Try to avoid that.  A one man operation can make
more money than a 5 man operation in this business.  Try to avoid
hiring anyone for as long as possible.  (That does not include an
accountant.  You must have a good accountant).
Keep the company always in your political control.  If you bring
in partners or gift stock to employees, make sure that your
ownership percentage is always the majority.  Don’t count on
ANYONE siding with you during a dispute.  Morals, ethics, honesty,
loyalty, religion all go out the window when things turn ugly. 
Sad to see.


Things not to do:

Do not do a flat network.  Feed each access point from a router
port or a VLAN.  Do not allow APs to even know of the existence of
other APs on the same tower.
Do not scrimp on CAT 5 cable.  Use quality cable. Shielded at all
AP sites.
Do not scrimp on backhaul capacity or quality.  If/when you can
justify it, put in licensed radios for backhaul.
Do not hire friends or relatives.
Do not scrimp on backup power.  Make sure everything can run for
at least 12 hours without external power.
Do not futz around with being an email provider.  Don’t even do
any hosting right at first.
I would not do paper bills.  Keep it all online.  ACH /Credit card
payment receipt is a must.
Do not do installs in marginal locations. One marginal customer
can eat up all of your time and they will give you a black eye in
the marketplace.

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[joseph marsh]

Make sure u have spare equipment for a tower in case of lighting. Strike

I have Learned this the hard way
On Jan 7, 2015 11:45 AM, Jaime Solorza losguyswirel...@gmail.com wrote:

 in 2004  I fired 4 employees for stealing, pawning gear and drug abuse.
 They were making good money and started going to the bad joints in and
 around Laredo Tx and Nuevo Laredo, Mx! Some of these guys had been with
 me since 1992!One tower guy and I finished contract and I
 closed shop after I completed project.   I had only fired two other
 employees before that...one for starting a fight with a High School kid!!!
   Sent him packing on a bus from Uvalde, Texas and another from Del Rio,
 Texas (on bus again) for drug abuse at tower site where we were erected 150
 tower.
 Dangerous enough sober. Chuck is right...it is not easy being the
 boss...


 Jaime Solorza
 Wireless Systems Architect
 915-861-1390

 On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:29 AM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

   One more thing:
 Fire people.

 Do not suffer with a problem employee.  Screw up your courage and take
 care of the problem, do not let it fester.  That does not mean you have to
 be an ass about it.  Things you can say:

 It is just not working out, sorry.  I will give you a letter of
 recommendation.
 I am inviting you to find your happiness elsewhere.
 We are eliminating your position (chicken-shit way to do things but
 sometimes it is somewhat true).

 Once in a while:
 Here is a box, pack your stuff and leave.  John will escort you to the
 door.


  *From:* Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com
 *Sent:* Wednesday, January 07, 2015 8:39 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

   Things to do:

 Pick the right radio the first time.  I am partial to Cambium products.
 This is like getting married and having a bunch of kids and having a
 bunch of inlaws move in with you.  Don’t screw it up.  You have to live
 with it 24/7/365.

 Get into fiber as soon as you can.  Take fiber feeds from your upstream
 provider if you can.  Take fiber to your tower sites if you can.

 Pick the right billing system and right bookkeeping system.  Quickbooks
 is good for accounting, but it is not so good for billing for a WISP.  It
 can do it, but there are better systems out there.  It will get you by
 initially.

 Stay the right size.  If you are a very small operation you can make good
 money.  If you are a large operation you can make good money.  There is
 middle ground where you are continually broke but need to grow.  Try to
 avoid that.  A one man operation can make more money than a 5 man operation
 in this business.  Try to avoid hiring anyone for as long as possible.
 (That does not include an accountant.  You must have a good accountant).

 Keep the company always in your political control.  If you bring in
 partners or gift stock to employees, make sure that your ownership
 percentage is always the majority.  Don’t count on ANYONE siding with you
 during a dispute.  Morals, ethics, honesty, loyalty, religion all go out
 the window when things turn ugly.  Sad to see.


 Things not to do:

 Do not do a flat network.  Feed each access point from a router port or a
 VLAN.  Do not allow APs to even know of the existence of other APs on the
 same tower.

 Do not scrimp on CAT 5 cable.  Use quality cable.  Shielded at all AP
 sites.

 Do not scrimp on backhaul capacity or quality.  If/when you can justify
 it, put in licensed radios for backhaul.

  Do not hire friends or relatives.

  Do not scrimp on backup power.  Make sure everything can run for at
 least 12 hours without external power.

  Do not futz around with being an email provider.  Don’t even do any
 hosting right at first.

  I would not do paper bills.  Keep it all online.  ACH /Credit card
 payment receipt is a must.

  Do not do installs in marginal locations.  One marginal customer can
 eat up all of your time and they will give you a black eye in the
 marketplace.

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Caleb Knauer]

I am inviting you to find your happiness elsewhere.  -- This is awesome.

On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
 One more thing:
 Fire people.

 Do not suffer with a problem employee.  Screw up your courage and take care
 of the problem, do not let it fester.  That does not mean you have to be an
 ass about it.  Things you can say:

 It is just not working out, sorry.  I will give you a letter of
 recommendation.
 I am inviting you to find your happiness elsewhere.
 We are eliminating your position (chicken-shit way to do things but
 sometimes it is somewhat true).

 Once in a while:
 Here is a box, pack your stuff and leave.  John will escort you to the door.


 From: Chuck McCown
 Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2015 8:39 AM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

 Things to do:

 Pick the right radio the first time.  I am partial to Cambium products.
 This is like getting married and having a bunch of kids and having a bunch
 of inlaws move in with you.  Don’t screw it up.  You have to live with it
 24/7/365.

 Get into fiber as soon as you can.  Take fiber feeds from your upstream
 provider if you can.  Take fiber to your tower sites if you can.

 Pick the right billing system and right bookkeeping system.  Quickbooks is
 good for accounting, but it is not so good for billing for a WISP.  It can
 do it, but there are better systems out there.  It will get you by
 initially.

 Stay the right size.  If you are a very small operation you can make good
 money.  If you are a large operation you can make good money.  There is
 middle ground where you are continually broke but need to grow.  Try to
 avoid that.  A one man operation can make more money than a 5 man operation
 in this business.  Try to avoid hiring anyone for as long as possible.
 (That does not include an accountant.  You must have a good accountant).

 Keep the company always in your political control.  If you bring in partners
 or gift stock to employees, make sure that your ownership percentage is
 always the majority.  Don’t count on ANYONE siding with you during a
 dispute.  Morals, ethics, honesty, loyalty, religion all go out the window
 when things turn ugly.  Sad to see.


 Things not to do:

 Do not do a flat network.  Feed each access point from a router port or a
 VLAN.  Do not allow APs to even know of the existence of other APs on the
 same tower.

 Do not scrimp on CAT 5 cable.  Use quality cable.  Shielded at all AP sites.

 Do not scrimp on backhaul capacity or quality.  If/when you can justify it,
 put in licensed radios for backhaul.

 Do not hire friends or relatives.

 Do not scrimp on backup power.  Make sure everything can run for at least 12
 hours without external power.

 Do not futz around with being an email provider.  Don’t even do any hosting
 right at first.

 I would not do paper bills.  Keep it all online.  ACH /Credit card payment
 receipt is a must.

 Do not do installs in marginal locations.  One marginal customer can eat up
 all of your time and they will give you a black eye in the marketplace.

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Chuck McCown]

Not my invention.  Disney uses that.

-Original Message- 
From: Caleb Knauer

Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2015 11:23 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

I am inviting you to find your happiness elsewhere.  -- This is awesome.

On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

One more thing:
Fire people.

Do not suffer with a problem employee.  Screw up your courage and take 
care
of the problem, do not let it fester.  That does not mean you have to be 
an

ass about it.  Things you can say:

It is just not working out, sorry.  I will give you a letter of
recommendation.
I am inviting you to find your happiness elsewhere.
We are eliminating your position (chicken-shit way to do things but
sometimes it is somewhat true).

Once in a while:
Here is a box, pack your stuff and leave.  John will escort you to the 
door.



From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2015 8:39 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

Things to do:

Pick the right radio the first time.  I am partial to Cambium products.
This is like getting married and having a bunch of kids and having a bunch
of inlaws move in with you.  Don’t screw it up.  You have to live with it
24/7/365.

Get into fiber as soon as you can.  Take fiber feeds from your upstream
provider if you can.  Take fiber to your tower sites if you can.

Pick the right billing system and right bookkeeping system.  Quickbooks is
good for accounting, but it is not so good for billing for a WISP.  It can
do it, but there are better systems out there.  It will get you by
initially.

Stay the right size.  If you are a very small operation you can make good
money.  If you are a large operation you can make good money.  There is
middle ground where you are continually broke but need to grow.  Try to
avoid that.  A one man operation can make more money than a 5 man 
operation

in this business.  Try to avoid hiring anyone for as long as possible.
(That does not include an accountant.  You must have a good accountant).

Keep the company always in your political control.  If you bring in 
partners

or gift stock to employees, make sure that your ownership percentage is
always the majority.  Don’t count on ANYONE siding with you during a
dispute.  Morals, ethics, honesty, loyalty, religion all go out the window
when things turn ugly.  Sad to see.


Things not to do:

Do not do a flat network.  Feed each access point from a router port or a
VLAN.  Do not allow APs to even know of the existence of other APs on the
same tower.

Do not scrimp on CAT 5 cable.  Use quality cable.  Shielded at all AP 
sites.


Do not scrimp on backhaul capacity or quality.  If/when you can justify 
it,

put in licensed radios for backhaul.

Do not hire friends or relatives.

Do not scrimp on backup power.  Make sure everything can run for at least 
12

hours without external power.

Do not futz around with being an email provider.  Don’t even do any 
hosting

right at first.

I would not do paper bills.  Keep it all online.  ACH /Credit card payment
receipt is a must.

Do not do installs in marginal locations.  One marginal customer can eat 
up

all of your time and they will give you a black eye in the marketplace.

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Andy Trimmell]

Make yourself a signal threshold for installing a customer. NEVER install a 
customer because you feel sorry for them even if their neighbor is your 
customer. They'll boohoo and cry but no is doing them and yourself a favor.  
If it's not within your operating signal threshold don't waiver.  If you do you 
will regret the decision forever and that person will at some point hate you 
and your service and will tell people how bad your service is.  Don't taint 
your bushel of apples.

 

 

Andy Trimmell

Systems Engineer

Precision Data Solutions, LLC

Mooresville, IN 46158

317-831-3000 ext 211

www.pdsconnect.me

 

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of joseph marsh
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2015 12:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

 

Make sure u have spare equipment for a tower in case of lighting. Strike 

I have Learned this the hard way

On Jan 7, 2015 11:45 AM, Jaime Solorza losguyswirel...@gmail.com wrote:

in 2004  I fired 4 employees for stealing, pawning gear and drug abuse.  They 
were making good money and started going to the bad joints in and around Laredo 
Tx and Nuevo Laredo, Mx! Some of these guys had been with me since 
1992!One tower guy and I finished contract and I closed shop after 
I completed project.   I had only fired two other employees before that...one 
for starting a fight with a High School kid!!!   Sent him packing on a bus from 
Uvalde, Texas and another from Del Rio, Texas (on bus again) for drug abuse at 
tower site where we were erected 150 tower.   

Dangerous enough sober. Chuck is right...it is not easy being the boss...

 




Jaime Solorza

Wireless Systems Architect

915-861-1390

 

On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:29 AM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

One more thing:

Fire people.  

 

Do not suffer with a problem employee.  Screw up your courage and take care of 
the problem, do not let it fester.  That does not mean you have to be an ass 
about it.  Things you can say:

 

It is just not working out, sorry.  I will give you a letter of recommendation.

I am inviting you to find your happiness elsewhere.

We are eliminating your position (chicken-shit way to do things but sometimes 
it is somewhat true).

 

Once in a while:

Here is a box, pack your stuff and leave.  John will escort you to the door.  

 

 

From: Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com  

Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2015 8:39 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

 

Things to do:

Pick the right radio the first time.  I am partial to Cambium products. 
 

This is like getting married and having a bunch of kids and having a 
bunch of inlaws move in with you.  Don’t screw it up.  You have to live with it 
24/7/365.  

 

Get into fiber as soon as you can.  Take fiber feeds from your upstream 
provider if you can.  Take fiber to your tower sites if you can.  

 

Pick the right billing system and right bookkeeping system.  Quickbooks 
is good for accounting, but it is not so good for billing for a WISP.  It can 
do it, but there are better systems out there.  It will get you by initially.  

 

Stay the right size.  If you are a very small operation you can make 
good money.  If you are a large operation you can make good money.  There is 
middle ground where you are continually broke but need to grow.  Try to avoid 
that.  A one man operation can make more money than a 5 man operation in this 
business.  Try to avoid hiring anyone for as long as possible.  (That does not 
include an accountant.  You must have a good accountant).

 

Keep the company always in your political control.  If you bring in 
partners or gift stock to employees, make sure that your ownership percentage 
is always the majority.  Don’t count on ANYONE siding with you during a 
dispute.  Morals, ethics, honesty, loyalty, religion all go out the window when 
things turn ugly.  Sad to see.  

 

Things not to do:

Do not do a flat network.  Feed each access point from a router port or 
a VLAN.  Do not allow APs to even know of the existence of other APs on the 
same tower.

 

Do not scrimp on CAT 5 cable.  Use quality cable.  Shielded at all AP 
sites.

 

Do not scrimp on backhaul capacity or quality.  If/when you can justify 
it, put in licensed radios for backhaul.  

 

Do not hire friends or relatives.  

 

Do not scrimp on backup power.  Make sure everything can run for at 
least 12 hours without external power.  

 

Do not futz around with being an email provider.  Don’t even do any 
hosting right at first.  

 

I would not do paper bills.  Keep it all online.  ACH /Credit card 
payment receipt is a must.  

 

Do not do installs in marginal locations.  One marginal customer can 
eat up all of your time and they will give you a black eye

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Chuck McCown]

One more thing:
Fire people.  

Do not suffer with a problem employee.  Screw up your courage and take care of 
the problem, do not let it fester.  That does not mean you have to be an ass 
about it.  Things you can say:

It is just not working out, sorry.  I will give you a letter of recommendation.
I am inviting you to find your happiness elsewhere.
We are eliminating your position (chicken-shit way to do things but sometimes 
it is somewhat true).

Once in a while:
Here is a box, pack your stuff and leave.  John will escort you to the door.  


From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2015 8:39 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

Things to do:
  Pick the right radio the first time.  I am partial to Cambium products.  
  This is like getting married and having a bunch of kids and having a bunch of 
inlaws move in with you.  Don’t screw it up.  You have to live with it 
24/7/365.  

  Get into fiber as soon as you can.  Take fiber feeds from your upstream 
provider if you can.  Take fiber to your tower sites if you can.  

  Pick the right billing system and right bookkeeping system.  Quickbooks is 
good for accounting, but it is not so good for billing for a WISP.  It can do 
it, but there are better systems out there.  It will get you by initially.  

  Stay the right size.  If you are a very small operation you can make good 
money.  If you are a large operation you can make good money.  There is middle 
ground where you are continually broke but need to grow.  Try to avoid that.  A 
one man operation can make more money than a 5 man operation in this business.  
Try to avoid hiring anyone for as long as possible.  (That does not include an 
accountant.  You must have a good accountant).

  Keep the company always in your political control.  If you bring in partners 
or gift stock to employees, make sure that your ownership percentage is always 
the majority.  Don’t count on ANYONE siding with you during a dispute.  Morals, 
ethics, honesty, loyalty, religion all go out the window when things turn ugly. 
 Sad to see.  

Things not to do:
  Do not do a flat network.  Feed each access point from a router port or a 
VLAN.  Do not allow APs to even know of the existence of other APs on the same 
tower.

  Do not scrimp on CAT 5 cable.  Use quality cable.  Shielded at all AP sites.

  Do not scrimp on backhaul capacity or quality.  If/when you can justify it, 
put in licensed radios for backhaul.  

  Do not hire friends or relatives.  
  Do not scrimp on backup power.  Make sure everything can run for at least 12 
hours without external power.  
  Do not futz around with being an email provider.  Don’t even do any hosting 
right at first.  
  I would not do paper bills.  Keep it all online.  ACH /Credit card payment 
receipt is a must.  
  Do not do installs in marginal locations.  One marginal customer can eat up 
all of your time and they will give you a black eye in the marketplace.  
 

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Tyler Treat]

Yes.   Wish I would have learned this sooner.

___
Mangled by my iPhone.
___

Tyler Treat
Corn Belt Technologies, Inc.

tyler.tr...@cornbelttech.commailto:tyler.tr...@cornbelttech.com
___


On Jan 7, 2015, at 11:29 AM, Chuck McCown 
ch...@wbmfg.commailto:ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

One more thing:
Fire people.

Do not suffer with a problem employee.  Screw up your courage and take care of 
the problem, do not let it fester.  That does not mean you have to be an ass 
about it.  Things you can say:

It is just not working out, sorry.  I will give you a letter of recommendation.
I am inviting you to find your happiness elsewhere.
We are eliminating your position (chicken-shit way to do things but sometimes 
it is somewhat true).

Once in a while:
Here is a box, pack your stuff and leave.  John will escort you to the door.


From: Chuck McCownmailto:ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2015 8:39 AM
To: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

Things to do:
Pick the right radio the first time.  I am partial to Cambium products.
This is like getting married and having a bunch of kids and having a bunch of 
inlaws move in with you.  Don't screw it up.  You have to live with it 24/7/365.

Get into fiber as soon as you can.  Take fiber feeds from your upstream 
provider if you can.  Take fiber to your tower sites if you can.

Pick the right billing system and right bookkeeping system.  Quickbooks is good 
for accounting, but it is not so good for billing for a WISP.  It can do it, 
but there are better systems out there.  It will get you by initially.

Stay the right size.  If you are a very small operation you can make good 
money.  If you are a large operation you can make good money.  There is middle 
ground where you are continually broke but need to grow.  Try to avoid that.  A 
one man operation can make more money than a 5 man operation in this business.  
Try to avoid hiring anyone for as long as possible.  (That does not include an 
accountant.  You must have a good accountant).

Keep the company always in your political control.  If you bring in partners or 
gift stock to employees, make sure that your ownership percentage is always the 
majority.  Don't count on ANYONE siding with you during a dispute.  Morals, 
ethics, honesty, loyalty, religion all go out the window when things turn ugly. 
 Sad to see.

Things not to do:
Do not do a flat network.  Feed each access point from a router port or a VLAN. 
 Do not allow APs to even know of the existence of other APs on the same tower.

Do not scrimp on CAT 5 cable.  Use quality cable.  Shielded at all AP sites.

Do not scrimp on backhaul capacity or quality.  If/when you can justify it, put 
in licensed radios for backhaul.

Do not hire friends or relatives.

Do not scrimp on backup power.  Make sure everything can run for at least 12 
hours without external power.

Do not futz around with being an email provider.  Don't even do any hosting 
right at first.

I would not do paper bills.  Keep it all online.  ACH /Credit card payment 
receipt is a must.

Do not do installs in marginal locations.  One marginal customer can eat up all 
of your time and they will give you a black eye in the marketplace.

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[joseph marsh]

+1
On Jan 7, 2015 11:39 AM, Tyler Treat tyler.tr...@cornbelttech.com wrote:

  Yes.   Wish I would have learned this sooner.

 ___
 Mangled by my iPhone.
 ___

  Tyler Treat
 Corn Belt Technologies, Inc.

  tyler.tr...@cornbelttech.com
 ___


 On Jan 7, 2015, at 11:29 AM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

One more thing:
 Fire people.

 Do not suffer with a problem employee.  Screw up your courage and take
 care of the problem, do not let it fester.  That does not mean you have to
 be an ass about it.  Things you can say:

 It is just not working out, sorry.  I will give you a letter of
 recommendation.
 I am inviting you to find your happiness elsewhere.
 We are eliminating your position (chicken-shit way to do things but
 sometimes it is somewhat true).

 Once in a while:
 Here is a box, pack your stuff and leave.  John will escort you to the
 door.


  *From:* Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com
 *Sent:* Wednesday, January 07, 2015 8:39 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

   Things to do:

 Pick the right radio the first time.  I am partial to Cambium products.
 This is like getting married and having a bunch of kids and having a bunch
 of inlaws move in with you.  Don’t screw it up.  You have to live with it
 24/7/365.

 Get into fiber as soon as you can.  Take fiber feeds from your upstream
 provider if you can.  Take fiber to your tower sites if you can.

 Pick the right billing system and right bookkeeping system.  Quickbooks is
 good for accounting, but it is not so good for billing for a WISP.  It can
 do it, but there are better systems out there.  It will get you by
 initially.

 Stay the right size.  If you are a very small operation you can make good
 money.  If you are a large operation you can make good money.  There is
 middle ground where you are continually broke but need to grow.  Try to
 avoid that.  A one man operation can make more money than a 5 man operation
 in this business.  Try to avoid hiring anyone for as long as possible.
 (That does not include an accountant.  You must have a good accountant).

 Keep the company always in your political control.  If you bring in
 partners or gift stock to employees, make sure that your ownership
 percentage is always the majority.  Don’t count on ANYONE siding with you
 during a dispute.  Morals, ethics, honesty, loyalty, religion all go out
 the window when things turn ugly.  Sad to see.


 Things not to do:

 Do not do a flat network.  Feed each access point from a router port or a
 VLAN.  Do not allow APs to even know of the existence of other APs on the
 same tower.

 Do not scrimp on CAT 5 cable.  Use quality cable.  Shielded at all AP
 sites.

 Do not scrimp on backhaul capacity or quality.  If/when you can justify
 it, put in licensed radios for backhaul.

   Do not hire friends or relatives.

   Do not scrimp on backup power.  Make sure everything can run for at
 least 12 hours without external power.

   Do not futz around with being an email provider.  Don’t even do any
 hosting right at first.

   I would not do paper bills.  Keep it all online.  ACH /Credit card
 payment receipt is a must.

   Do not do installs in marginal locations.  One marginal customer can
 eat up all of your time and they will give you a black eye in the
 marketplace.

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Jaime Solorza]

in 2004  I fired 4 employees for stealing, pawning gear and drug abuse.
They were making good money and started going to the bad joints in and
around Laredo Tx and Nuevo Laredo, Mx! Some of these guys had been with
me since 1992!One tower guy and I finished contract and I
closed shop after I completed project.   I had only fired two other
employees before that...one for starting a fight with a High School kid!!!
  Sent him packing on a bus from Uvalde, Texas and another from Del Rio,
Texas (on bus again) for drug abuse at tower site where we were erected 150
tower.
Dangerous enough sober. Chuck is right...it is not easy being the
boss...


Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:29 AM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

   One more thing:
 Fire people.

 Do not suffer with a problem employee.  Screw up your courage and take
 care of the problem, do not let it fester.  That does not mean you have to
 be an ass about it.  Things you can say:

 It is just not working out, sorry.  I will give you a letter of
 recommendation.
 I am inviting you to find your happiness elsewhere.
 We are eliminating your position (chicken-shit way to do things but
 sometimes it is somewhat true).

 Once in a while:
 Here is a box, pack your stuff and leave.  John will escort you to the
 door.


  *From:* Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com
 *Sent:* Wednesday, January 07, 2015 8:39 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

   Things to do:

 Pick the right radio the first time.  I am partial to Cambium products.
 This is like getting married and having a bunch of kids and having a bunch
 of inlaws move in with you.  Don’t screw it up.  You have to live with it
 24/7/365.

 Get into fiber as soon as you can.  Take fiber feeds from your upstream
 provider if you can.  Take fiber to your tower sites if you can.

 Pick the right billing system and right bookkeeping system.  Quickbooks is
 good for accounting, but it is not so good for billing for a WISP.  It can
 do it, but there are better systems out there.  It will get you by
 initially.

 Stay the right size.  If you are a very small operation you can make good
 money.  If you are a large operation you can make good money.  There is
 middle ground where you are continually broke but need to grow.  Try to
 avoid that.  A one man operation can make more money than a 5 man operation
 in this business.  Try to avoid hiring anyone for as long as possible.
 (That does not include an accountant.  You must have a good accountant).

 Keep the company always in your political control.  If you bring in
 partners or gift stock to employees, make sure that your ownership
 percentage is always the majority.  Don’t count on ANYONE siding with you
 during a dispute.  Morals, ethics, honesty, loyalty, religion all go out
 the window when things turn ugly.  Sad to see.


 Things not to do:

 Do not do a flat network.  Feed each access point from a router port or a
 VLAN.  Do not allow APs to even know of the existence of other APs on the
 same tower.

 Do not scrimp on CAT 5 cable.  Use quality cable.  Shielded at all AP
 sites.

 Do not scrimp on backhaul capacity or quality.  If/when you can justify
 it, put in licensed radios for backhaul.

  Do not hire friends or relatives.

  Do not scrimp on backup power.  Make sure everything can run for at
 least 12 hours without external power.

  Do not futz around with being an email provider.  Don’t even do any
 hosting right at first.

  I would not do paper bills.  Keep it all online.  ACH /Credit card
 payment receipt is a must.

  Do not do installs in marginal locations.  One marginal customer can eat
 up all of your time and they will give you a black eye in the marketplace.

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Jeremy]

Have a million dollars.  Cash.
On Jan 6, 2015 5:23 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote:

 Get a billing system.  Powercode or whatever.

 Don't finance customers that can't pay up front, wastes billing time
 instead of installing more customers.

 Don't use your cell phone for the office.  Get a hosted PBX.  Close the
 shop so you don't get burnt out, have other people and or a call center.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 On Jan 6, 2015 7:21 PM, Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi guys, long time listener, first time caller. I'm looking at starting a
 new rural WISP and was wondering if you guys could share some of the things
 you wish you had known when you started out. Things to absolutely stay away
 from, things that you didn't think of first, but made your life 10x easier,
 etc. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Josh Luthman]

Get a billing system.  Powercode or whatever.

Don't finance customers that can't pay up front, wastes billing time
instead of installing more customers.

Don't use your cell phone for the office.  Get a hosted PBX.  Close the
shop so you don't get burnt out, have other people and or a call center.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jan 6, 2015 7:21 PM, Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi guys, long time listener, first time caller. I'm looking at starting a
 new rural WISP and was wondering if you guys could share some of the things
 you wish you had known when you started out. Things to absolutely stay away
 from, things that you didn't think of first, but made your life 10x easier,
 etc. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Erich Kaiser]

Trevor where are looking to start a WISP?

Many of us have started(Some still using) with just using quickbooks and
excel spreasheets.  You can use something like IPPlan to manage your IP
info.  Use Mikrotik routers (Many of us are familiar with them), the
biggest question is what type of gear to use.  It would depend on the
density of trees, etc.  Hit me offlist if you want more info.

Thanks!

Erich
erich at northcentraltower dot com

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:21 PM, Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi guys, long time listener, first time caller. I'm looking at starting a
 new rural WISP and was wondering if you guys could share some of the things
 you wish you had known when you started out. Things to absolutely stay away
 from, things that you didn't think of first, but made your life 10x easier,
 etc. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Jeremy]

I explain it like this:  Routers are made like light bulbs.  They are
pretty much engineered to fail.  If you get one that lasts three years you
are lucky.  All routers lock up and need power cycled once in awhile.  As
they get older they start to need it regularly.  When it gets to the point
that you are power cycling your router all the time it is time to buy a new
router.  Don't spend $250 on a router because it will likely fail just as
quickly as the $70 router.  This has saved me so many issues.

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:21 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 pwer?  power cycle their router!

 On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:20 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 Yeah, seriously though.  Cash flow statement is essential.  MOST WISPs
 fail within three years because they don't make it to cash flow positive
 before they run out of operating capital.  Do not underestimate your
 expenses.  Track everything.  TRAIN YOUR CUSTOMERS.  If you have overages,
 bandwidth limitations, ect. let them know up front.  Tell every customer to
 pwer their router if they don't have Internet (show them how), THEN call
 you if that doesn't work.  This will save close to 90% of your calls.

 On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:13 PM, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com wrote:

   Not totally joking.  Undercapitalization is a major mistake of most
 startups including WISPs.  You need money to make money.

 Make a month-by-month plan for your first 2 years and do a cashflow
 spreadsheet.  Set targets for how many installs you plan to do each month,
 how much you revenue you will generate, how much you need to spend on
 equipment and recurring expenses.  Set milestones for when you can fund
 growth from cashflow, when you have repaid your initial investment or
 loans, when you need to add staff and will the money be there, etc.  Review
 progress each month and adjust as necessary.  But this will help you avoid
 being underfunded to achieve your goals, or not reaching profitability in a
 reasonable timeframe.  It’s too easy starting out to use a simple
 calculation like I’m paying $500/month for bandwidth and I charge $50 so
 once I get to 10 customers I’m profitable.  Then a year later you’re at 100
 customers which seems like success, but you have maxed out your credit
 cards and aren’t drawing a salary and can’t hire a full time installer, and
 you need major network upgrades and don’t have the cash.

 Also while you don’t need to budget every penny, you need realistic
 estimates of all your costs, not just the big, obvious ones.  Like assuming
 you take credit cards, some of the revenue will go to processing fees and
 “discount”.  You will have some bad debt from customers who don’t pay, and
 you will have some churn if only because people move, get divorced, and
 die.  You will go through supplies like cable and hardware for
 installations, and you will spend a certain amount on maintenance.  You
 will have costs like insurance and lawyers and accountants and postage and
 utilities.  At least come up with a rough number for these, and refine
 based on experience.

 If you use your own vehicle, at least pay yourself the IRS standard
 amount for mileage.

 Find another WISP nearby and make an arrangement to cover for each other
 in case of sickness or just so you can get away for a few days.

 Decide what your business hours are and how to handle calls outside
 business hours.  Also decide on a way to notify customers if you have a
 major outage so you aren’t answering the phone when you should be working
 on a problem.  For example, a message on your voicemail.

 Train your customers from day one.  For example, let calls go to
 voicemail after hours and call them back, or they will assume they can call
 any time of day or night.  Or if you say you will suspend service when
 payment is X days late, do it.  If they never get to expecting things, they
 won’t be pissed off when you take them away.  Like Trevor used to answer
 his cellphone at all hours, now I have to call the office and leave a
 message.  Or the service has really gone downhill, I used to get 20 meg
 speeds now I only get 10 (even though they are on a 5 meg plan).  Or I used
 to wait 3 months and then pay up, now if I’m 5 days late, they cut me off.
 Better to set their expectations early.


  *From:* Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com
 *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2015 6:34 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New WISP


 Have a million dollars.  Cash.
 On Jan 6, 2015 5:23 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
 wrote:

 Get a billing system.  Powercode or whatever.

 Don't finance customers that can't pay up front, wastes billing time
 instead of installing more customers.

 Don't use your cell phone for the office.  Get a hosted PBX.  Close the
 shop so you don't get burnt out, have other people and or a call center.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 On Jan 6, 2015 7:21 PM, Trevor Bough

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Jeremy]

 and then pay up, now if I’m 5 days late, they cut me off.
 Better to set their expectations early.


  *From:* Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com
 *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2015 6:34 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New WISP


 Have a million dollars.  Cash.
 On Jan 6, 2015 5:23 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
 wrote:

 Get a billing system.  Powercode or whatever.

 Don't finance customers that can't pay up front, wastes billing time
 instead of installing more customers.

 Don't use your cell phone for the office.  Get a hosted PBX.  Close
 the shop so you don't get burnt out, have other people and or a call 
 center.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 On Jan 6, 2015 7:21 PM, Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi guys, long time listener, first time caller. I'm looking at
 starting a new rural WISP and was wondering if you guys could share some 
 of
 the things you wish you had known when you started out. Things to
 absolutely stay away from, things that you didn't think of first, but 
 made
 your life 10x easier, etc. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Josh Luthman]

I can say Ubnt survives a LOT better with shielded cable.  The last two
years went waaay better for customer gear.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jan 6, 2015 8:41 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 If you say so.  As I said...there is a lot of debate on this subject.  If
 you get an ESD it follows the path to ground through the POE and to earth
 ground.

 On Jan 6, 2015 6:34 PM, cstann...@gmail.com wrote:

 Shielded cable is for protection against high-power RF interference, it
 does not correctly protect from ESD as it leads inside the house. The
 grounding on your tripod or mast is the protection from ESD and keeps
 surges outside the house.

 --
 *From: * Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com
 *Sender: * Af af-boun...@afmug.com
 *Date: *Wed, 7 Jan 2015 01:29:25 +
 *To: *af@afmug.com
 *ReplyTo: * af@afmug.com
 *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

 Shielded cable with shielded connectors on every install.  I recommend
 Shireen on towers and installs.  A lot of the guys use UBNT tough cable.
 Whatever, just shield and ground.  If you cut in wallplates (you
 should...it is more professional), use shielded keystone jacks and shielded
 patch cables.  I use unshielded patch cables from the POE to the router.
 This has saved a ton of routers and NICs from ESD because the path to
 ground does not extend to the router.  You may spend a bit more on supplies
 but you will have less service calls.  Opinions cary on this subject but I
 have worked for a very large company that we all know and this practice
 probably cut service calls after lightning storms by 20%.

 On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 I explain it like this:  Routers are made like light bulbs.  They are
 pretty much engineered to fail.  If you get one that lasts three years you
 are lucky.  All routers lock up and need power cycled once in awhile.  As
 they get older they start to need it regularly.  When it gets to the point
 that you are power cycling your router all the time it is time to buy a new
 router.  Don't spend $250 on a router because it will likely fail just as
 quickly as the $70 router.  This has saved me so many issues.

 On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:21 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 pwer?  power cycle their router!

 On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:20 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 Yeah, seriously though.  Cash flow statement is essential.  MOST WISPs
 fail within three years because they don't make it to cash flow positive
 before they run out of operating capital.  Do not underestimate your
 expenses.  Track everything.  TRAIN YOUR CUSTOMERS.  If you have overages,
 bandwidth limitations, ect. let them know up front.  Tell every customer 
 to
 pwer their router if they don't have Internet (show them how), THEN call
 you if that doesn't work.  This will save close to 90% of your calls.

 On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:13 PM, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com wrote:

   Not totally joking.  Undercapitalization is a major mistake of
 most startups including WISPs.  You need money to make money.

 Make a month-by-month plan for your first 2 years and do a cashflow
 spreadsheet.  Set targets for how many installs you plan to do each 
 month,
 how much you revenue you will generate, how much you need to spend on
 equipment and recurring expenses.  Set milestones for when you can fund
 growth from cashflow, when you have repaid your initial investment or
 loans, when you need to add staff and will the money be there, etc.  
 Review
 progress each month and adjust as necessary.  But this will help you 
 avoid
 being underfunded to achieve your goals, or not reaching profitability 
 in a
 reasonable timeframe.  It’s too easy starting out to use a simple
 calculation like I’m paying $500/month for bandwidth and I charge $50 so
 once I get to 10 customers I’m profitable.  Then a year later you’re at 
 100
 customers which seems like success, but you have maxed out your credit
 cards and aren’t drawing a salary and can’t hire a full time installer, 
 and
 you need major network upgrades and don’t have the cash.

 Also while you don’t need to budget every penny, you need realistic
 estimates of all your costs, not just the big, obvious ones.  Like 
 assuming
 you take credit cards, some of the revenue will go to processing fees and
 “discount”.  You will have some bad debt from customers who don’t pay, 
 and
 you will have some churn if only because people move, get divorced, and
 die.  You will go through supplies like cable and hardware for
 installations, and you will spend a certain amount on maintenance.  You
 will have costs like insurance and lawyers and accountants and postage 
 and
 utilities.  At least come up with a rough number for these, and refine
 based on experience.

 If you use your own vehicle, at least pay yourself the IRS standard
 amount for mileage.

 Find another WISP nearby and make

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Ken Hohhof]

Oh, and unless computer repair is part of your business, make friends with the 
local computer shops.  Once you determine something is not your problem, you 
can spend a small amount of time trying to be helpful, but then you need to 
tell the customer to call the computer guy.  Who can charge time and materials. 
 And who will appreciate the referral and return the favor.  Do NOT open up a 
customer computer or make anything but minor changes to it, otherwise you will 
be blamed for everything that goes wrong with that computer for the rest of its 
life.  If you’re not getting paid to work on their computer (wireless printer, 
smart TV, etc.), it’s all risk and no reward for you.

Computer guys can send customers to you, or to your competitor.  Especially 
true of small businesses.  Some of them would eat a bug if their computer guy 
told them to.

And don’t send anyone to Geek Squad.


From: Jon Langeler 
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 7:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

don't bother with anything single polarity at this stage. don't do your own 
installs. be well funded. have free help. things like that...


Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 6, 2015, at 7:21 PM, Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com wrote:


  Hi guys, long time listener, first time caller. I'm looking at starting a new 
rural WISP and was wondering if you guys could share some of the things you 
wish you had known when you started out. Things to absolutely stay away from, 
things that you didn't think of first, but made your life 10x easier, etc. Any 
info would be greatly appreciated!

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Jerry Richardson]

A big one is to know where your bandwidth will come from, initially and when 
you need more. If possible a source that can be increased as needed as changing 
ISPs is a huge PITA



Jerry Richardson
airCloud Communications

 On Jan 6, 2015, at 5:16 PM, cstann...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Have high installation standards - good signal level, well-attached mounts 
 and cabling, everything high is grounded, and don't use 
 temporary/weird/hard-to-access wood poles or popups. No exceptions to those 
 since almost every one will bite you in the butt later, some of our 
 competitors and super-cheap wifi guys and many of the times we swap customers 
 a complete reinstall is required.
 From: Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com
 Sender: Af af-boun...@afmug.com
 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2015 00:21:09 +
 To: af@afmug.com
 ReplyTo: af@afmug.com
 Subject: [AFMUG] New WISP
 
 Hi guys, long time listener, first time caller. I'm looking at starting a new 
 rural WISP and was wondering if you guys could share some of the things you 
 wish you had known when you started out. Things to absolutely stay away from, 
 things that you didn't think of first, but made your life 10x easier, etc. 
 Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Craig House]

I've only known personally of a handfull of them that have got the grants. Most 
never got started due to the govt regulations that go with it. If you get a 
500k grant generally you have to raise the matching 500k in investors. The 
majority of the first 500k from the govt will be spent on grant compliance and 
paperwork. So you really get nowhere further. And as an investor, I would have 
a big fat 0 interest in anything that the government is going to have a major 
say in you running. Maybe it's just me but I HATE bureaucracy and red tape. I 
think most WISP owners and small business people do. Its counter productive to 
getting the real task accomplished if you spend all your time dealing with red 
tape unless you have a free employee that just likes doing it. 

Craig 


- Original Message -

From: Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 8:23:29 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP 



Ha ha what are the big problems with them? I know there have to be problems due 
to the fact you are dealing with the government. 
On Jan 6, 2015 8:18 PM, Craig House  cr...@totalhighspeed.net  wrote: 



Run away dont walk 



From: Trevor Bough  trevorbo...@gmail.com  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 8:17:48 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP 



You guys are great! Thank you for all of the great advice! I truly appreciate 
it. Does anyone have any experience with government grants? 

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[cstanners]

Have high installation standards - good signal level, well-attached mounts and 
cabling, everything high is grounded, and don't use 
temporary/weird/hard-to-access wood poles or popups. No exceptions to those 
since almost every one will bite you in the butt later, some of our competitors 
and super-cheap wifi guys and many of the times we swap customers a complete 
reinstall is required.

-Original Message-
From: Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com
Sender: Af af-boun...@afmug.com
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2015 00:21:09 
To: af@afmug.com
Reply-To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] New WISP

Hi guys, long time listener, first time caller. I'm looking at starting a
new rural WISP and was wondering if you guys could share some of the things
you wish you had known when you started out. Things to absolutely stay away
from, things that you didn't think of first, but made your life 10x easier,
etc. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Jeremy]

Yeah, seriously though.  Cash flow statement is essential.  MOST WISPs fail
within three years because they don't make it to cash flow positive before
they run out of operating capital.  Do not underestimate your expenses.
Track everything.  TRAIN YOUR CUSTOMERS.  If you have overages, bandwidth
limitations, ect. let them know up front.  Tell every customer to pwer
their router if they don't have Internet (show them how), THEN call you if
that doesn't work.  This will save close to 90% of your calls.

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:13 PM, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com wrote:

   Not totally joking.  Undercapitalization is a major mistake of most
 startups including WISPs.  You need money to make money.

 Make a month-by-month plan for your first 2 years and do a cashflow
 spreadsheet.  Set targets for how many installs you plan to do each month,
 how much you revenue you will generate, how much you need to spend on
 equipment and recurring expenses.  Set milestones for when you can fund
 growth from cashflow, when you have repaid your initial investment or
 loans, when you need to add staff and will the money be there, etc.  Review
 progress each month and adjust as necessary.  But this will help you avoid
 being underfunded to achieve your goals, or not reaching profitability in a
 reasonable timeframe.  It’s too easy starting out to use a simple
 calculation like I’m paying $500/month for bandwidth and I charge $50 so
 once I get to 10 customers I’m profitable.  Then a year later you’re at 100
 customers which seems like success, but you have maxed out your credit
 cards and aren’t drawing a salary and can’t hire a full time installer, and
 you need major network upgrades and don’t have the cash.

 Also while you don’t need to budget every penny, you need realistic
 estimates of all your costs, not just the big, obvious ones.  Like assuming
 you take credit cards, some of the revenue will go to processing fees and
 “discount”.  You will have some bad debt from customers who don’t pay, and
 you will have some churn if only because people move, get divorced, and
 die.  You will go through supplies like cable and hardware for
 installations, and you will spend a certain amount on maintenance.  You
 will have costs like insurance and lawyers and accountants and postage and
 utilities.  At least come up with a rough number for these, and refine
 based on experience.

 If you use your own vehicle, at least pay yourself the IRS standard amount
 for mileage.

 Find another WISP nearby and make an arrangement to cover for each other
 in case of sickness or just so you can get away for a few days.

 Decide what your business hours are and how to handle calls outside
 business hours.  Also decide on a way to notify customers if you have a
 major outage so you aren’t answering the phone when you should be working
 on a problem.  For example, a message on your voicemail.

 Train your customers from day one.  For example, let calls go to voicemail
 after hours and call them back, or they will assume they can call any time
 of day or night.  Or if you say you will suspend service when payment is X
 days late, do it.  If they never get to expecting things, they won’t be
 pissed off when you take them away.  Like Trevor used to answer his
 cellphone at all hours, now I have to call the office and leave a message.
 Or the service has really gone downhill, I used to get 20 meg speeds now I
 only get 10 (even though they are on a 5 meg plan).  Or I used to wait 3
 months and then pay up, now if I’m 5 days late, they cut me off.  Better to
 set their expectations early.


  *From:* Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com
 *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2015 6:34 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New WISP


 Have a million dollars.  Cash.
 On Jan 6, 2015 5:23 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
 wrote:

 Get a billing system.  Powercode or whatever.

 Don't finance customers that can't pay up front, wastes billing time
 instead of installing more customers.

 Don't use your cell phone for the office.  Get a hosted PBX.  Close the
 shop so you don't get burnt out, have other people and or a call center.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 On Jan 6, 2015 7:21 PM, Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi guys, long time listener, first time caller. I'm looking at starting
 a new rural WISP and was wondering if you guys could share some of the
 things you wish you had known when you started out. Things to absolutely
 stay away from, things that you didn't think of first, but made your life
 10x easier, etc. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Ken Hohhof]

Plus how do you train an installer if you’ve never done it yourself?

Oh, and take pictures.  Especially at tower sites, but it doesn’t hurt at 
customer sites as well.  And at tower sites, label everything.

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 7:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

Wha?  I think doing your own installs is fine, especially in the beginning.  
You learn a few things, can get your CPE set up the way you want it, and save 
money.

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 7:51 PM, Jon Langeler jon-ispli...@michwave.net wrote:

  don't do your own installs.

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Mathew Howard]

UBNT gear definitely survives way better with shielded cable, it's not
worth messing with unshielded.

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 7:52 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
wrote:

 I can say Ubnt survives a LOT better with shielded cable.  The last two
 years went waaay better for customer gear.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 On Jan 6, 2015 8:41 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 If you say so.  As I said...there is a lot of debate on this subject.  If
 you get an ESD it follows the path to ground through the POE and to earth
 ground.

 On Jan 6, 2015 6:34 PM, cstann...@gmail.com wrote:

 Shielded cable is for protection against high-power RF interference, it
 does not correctly protect from ESD as it leads inside the house. The
 grounding on your tripod or mast is the protection from ESD and keeps
 surges outside the house.

 --
 *From: * Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com
 *Sender: * Af af-boun...@afmug.com
 *Date: *Wed, 7 Jan 2015 01:29:25 +
 *To: *af@afmug.com
 *ReplyTo: * af@afmug.com
 *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

 Shielded cable with shielded connectors on every install.  I recommend
 Shireen on towers and installs.  A lot of the guys use UBNT tough cable.
 Whatever, just shield and ground.  If you cut in wallplates (you
 should...it is more professional), use shielded keystone jacks and shielded
 patch cables.  I use unshielded patch cables from the POE to the router.
 This has saved a ton of routers and NICs from ESD because the path to
 ground does not extend to the router.  You may spend a bit more on supplies
 but you will have less service calls.  Opinions cary on this subject but I
 have worked for a very large company that we all know and this practice
 probably cut service calls after lightning storms by 20%.

 On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 I explain it like this:  Routers are made like light bulbs.  They are
 pretty much engineered to fail.  If you get one that lasts three years you
 are lucky.  All routers lock up and need power cycled once in awhile.  As
 they get older they start to need it regularly.  When it gets to the point
 that you are power cycling your router all the time it is time to buy a new
 router.  Don't spend $250 on a router because it will likely fail just as
 quickly as the $70 router.  This has saved me so many issues.

 On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:21 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 pwer?  power cycle their router!

 On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:20 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 Yeah, seriously though.  Cash flow statement is essential.  MOST
 WISPs fail within three years because they don't make it to cash flow
 positive before they run out of operating capital.  Do not underestimate
 your expenses.  Track everything.  TRAIN YOUR CUSTOMERS.  If you have
 overages, bandwidth limitations, ect. let them know up front.  Tell every
 customer to pwer their router if they don't have Internet (show them 
 how),
 THEN call you if that doesn't work.  This will save close to 90% of your
 calls.

 On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:13 PM, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com wrote:

   Not totally joking.  Undercapitalization is a major mistake of
 most startups including WISPs.  You need money to make money.

 Make a month-by-month plan for your first 2 years and do a cashflow
 spreadsheet.  Set targets for how many installs you plan to do each 
 month,
 how much you revenue you will generate, how much you need to spend on
 equipment and recurring expenses.  Set milestones for when you can fund
 growth from cashflow, when you have repaid your initial investment or
 loans, when you need to add staff and will the money be there, etc.  
 Review
 progress each month and adjust as necessary.  But this will help you 
 avoid
 being underfunded to achieve your goals, or not reaching profitability 
 in a
 reasonable timeframe.  It’s too easy starting out to use a simple
 calculation like I’m paying $500/month for bandwidth and I charge $50 so
 once I get to 10 customers I’m profitable.  Then a year later you’re at 
 100
 customers which seems like success, but you have maxed out your credit
 cards and aren’t drawing a salary and can’t hire a full time installer, 
 and
 you need major network upgrades and don’t have the cash.

 Also while you don’t need to budget every penny, you need realistic
 estimates of all your costs, not just the big, obvious ones.  Like 
 assuming
 you take credit cards, some of the revenue will go to processing fees 
 and
 “discount”.  You will have some bad debt from customers who don’t pay, 
 and
 you will have some churn if only because people move, get divorced, and
 die.  You will go through supplies like cable and hardware for
 installations, and you will spend a certain amount on maintenance.  You
 will have costs like insurance and lawyers and accountants and postage 
 and
 utilities.  At least come up

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

Yesall of the above, and build some insulation between you and your 
customers as soon as possible.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Luthman 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 6:23 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP


  Get a billing system.  Powercode or whatever.

  Don't finance customers that can't pay up front, wastes billing time instead 
of installing more customers.

  Don't use your cell phone for the office.  Get a hosted PBX.  Close the shop 
so you don't get burnt out, have other people and or a call center.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Jan 6, 2015 7:21 PM, Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi guys, long time listener, first time caller. I'm looking at starting a 
new rural WISP and was wondering if you guys could share some of the things you 
wish you had known when you started out. Things to absolutely stay away from, 
things that you didn't think of first, but made your life 10x easier, etc. Any 
info would be greatly appreciated!

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Craig House]

Run away dont walk 


- Original Message -

From: Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 8:17:48 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP 



You guys are great! Thank you for all of the great advice! I truly appreciate 
it. Does anyone have any experience with government grants? 

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Josh Baird]

He'll have a hard time with that if he has zero customers as he won't be
able to justify an IPv4 allocation.  Of course, you could always start with
IPv6.  :)

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 9:44 PM, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com wrote:

   Oh, that brings up another point.  If at all possible, get your own
 public IP address space and autonomous system number.  And don’t NAT a
 bunch of customers to one public IP.


  *From:* Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com
 *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2015 8:22 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

  A big one is to know where your bandwidth will come from, initially and
 when you need more. If possible a source that can be increased as needed as
 changing ISPs is a huge PITA



 Jerry Richardson
 airCloud Communications

 On Jan 6, 2015, at 5:16 PM, cstann...@gmail.com wrote:

  Have high installation standards - good signal level, well-attached
 mounts and cabling, everything high is grounded, and don't use
 temporary/weird/hard-to-access wood poles or popups. No exceptions to those
 since almost every one will bite you in the butt later, some of our
 competitors and super-cheap wifi guys and many of the times we swap
 customers a complete reinstall is required.
 --
 *From: *Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com
 *Sender: *Af af-boun...@afmug.com
 *Date: *Wed, 7 Jan 2015 00:21:09 +
 *To: *af@afmug.com
 *ReplyTo: *af@afmug.com
 *Subject: *[AFMUG] New WISP


 Hi guys, long time listener, first time caller. I'm looking at starting a
 new rural WISP and was wondering if you guys could share some of the things
 you wish you had known when you started out. Things to absolutely stay away
 from, things that you didn't think of first, but made your life 10x easier,
 etc. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting)]

Shielded + WBMfg surge suppressors + fuses on everything is even better.

On 1/6/2015 8:12 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
UBNT gear definitely survives way better with shielded cable, it's not 
worth messing with unshielded.


On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 7:52 PM, Josh Luthman 
j...@imaginenetworksllc.com mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote:


I can say Ubnt survives a LOT better with shielded cable.  The
last two years went waaay better for customer gear.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 tel:937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343 tel:937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Jan 6, 2015 8:41 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com
mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

If you say so.  As I said...there is a lot of debate on this
subject.  If you get an ESD it follows the path to ground
through the POE and to earth ground.

On Jan 6, 2015 6:34 PM, cstann...@gmail.com
mailto:cstann...@gmail.com wrote:

Shielded cable is for protection against high-power RF
interference, it does not correctly protect from ESD as it
leads inside the house. The grounding on your tripod or
mast is the protection from ESD and keeps surges outside
the house.



*From: * Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com
mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com
*Sender: * Af af-boun...@afmug.com
mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
*Date: *Wed, 7 Jan 2015 01:29:25 +
*To: *af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com
*ReplyTo: * af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

Shielded cable with shielded connectors on every install. 
I recommend Shireen on towers and installs.  A lot of the

guys use UBNT tough cable.  Whatever, just shield and
ground.  If you cut in wallplates (you should...it is more
professional), use shielded keystone jacks and shielded
patch cables.  I use unshielded patch cables from the POE
to the router. This has saved a ton of routers and NICs
from ESD because the path to ground does not extend to the
router.  You may spend a bit more on supplies but you will
have less service calls.  Opinions cary on this subject
but I have worked for a very large company that we all
know and this practice probably cut service calls after
lightning storms by 20%.

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Jeremy
jeremysmi...@gmail.com mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com
wrote:

I explain it like this:  Routers are made like light
bulbs. They are pretty much engineered to fail.  If
you get one that lasts three years you are lucky.  All
routers lock up and need power cycled once in awhile. 
As they get older they start to need it regularly. 
When it gets to the point that you are power cycling

your router all the time it is time to buy a new
router.  Don't spend $250 on a router because it will
likely fail just as quickly as the $70 router.  This
has saved me so many issues.

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:21 PM, Jeremy
jeremysmi...@gmail.com
mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

pwer?  power cycle their router!

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:20 PM, Jeremy
jeremysmi...@gmail.com
mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

Yeah, seriously though. Cash flow statement is
essential.  MOST WISPs fail within three years
because they don't make it to cash flow
positive before they run out of operating
capital.  Do not underestimate your expenses. 
Track everything.  TRAIN YOUR CUSTOMERS. If

you have overages, bandwidth limitations, ect.
let them know up front.  Tell every customer
to pwer their router if they don't have
Internet (show them how), THEN call you if
that doesn't work. This will save close to 90%
of your calls.

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:13 PM, Ken Hohhof
af...@kwisp.com mailto:af...@kwisp.com wrote:

Not totally joking. Undercapitalization is
a major mistake of most startups including
WISPs.  You need money to make money.
Make a month-by-month plan

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Jeremy]

+1 on the accountant.  You need an accountant.

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thank you very much for the specifics! I figured a grant would come with a
 ton of paperwork, but not to that extent.
 On Jan 6, 2015 8:31 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies m...@mailmt.com
 wrote:

 Trevor,

 We received a grant about 4-5 years ago.  Almost done with the
 project.  I would not even think about how hard it would have been
 juggling the grant stuff with a new startup unless I had a bunch of
 startup investment money.

 Usually the grants are for build out only, operational stuff is not
 included.  For example, we pay at least $25k a year for auditors and
 accountants because of the grant.  Not to mention we hired a
 bookkeeper just to keep track of government paperwork dealing with the
 grant.  Neither of those are fundable expenses.

 --
 Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

 Myakka Technologies, Inc.
 www.MyakkaTech.com

 Proud Sponsor of the Myakka City Relay For Life
 http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL

 Please Donate at
 http://main.acsevents.org/site/TR/RelayForLife/RFLFY12FL?team_id=1030009pg=teamfr_id=37555
 --

 Tuesday, January 6, 2015, 9:23:29 PM, you wrote:

 TB Ha ha what are the big problems with them? I know there have
 TB to be problems due to the fact you are dealing with the government.

 TB On Jan 6, 2015 8:18 PM, Craig House
 TB cr...@totalhighspeed.net wrote:
 TB Run away dont walk







 TB From: Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com
 TB To: af@afmug.com
 TB Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 8:17:48 PM
 TB Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP


 TB You guys are great! Thank you for all of the great advice! I
 TB truly appreciate it. Does anyone have any experience with
 TB government grants?












 ---
 This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
 protection is active.
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Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Jeremy]

pwer?  power cycle their router!

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:20 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 Yeah, seriously though.  Cash flow statement is essential.  MOST WISPs
 fail within three years because they don't make it to cash flow positive
 before they run out of operating capital.  Do not underestimate your
 expenses.  Track everything.  TRAIN YOUR CUSTOMERS.  If you have overages,
 bandwidth limitations, ect. let them know up front.  Tell every customer to
 pwer their router if they don't have Internet (show them how), THEN call
 you if that doesn't work.  This will save close to 90% of your calls.

 On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:13 PM, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com wrote:

   Not totally joking.  Undercapitalization is a major mistake of most
 startups including WISPs.  You need money to make money.

 Make a month-by-month plan for your first 2 years and do a cashflow
 spreadsheet.  Set targets for how many installs you plan to do each month,
 how much you revenue you will generate, how much you need to spend on
 equipment and recurring expenses.  Set milestones for when you can fund
 growth from cashflow, when you have repaid your initial investment or
 loans, when you need to add staff and will the money be there, etc.  Review
 progress each month and adjust as necessary.  But this will help you avoid
 being underfunded to achieve your goals, or not reaching profitability in a
 reasonable timeframe.  It’s too easy starting out to use a simple
 calculation like I’m paying $500/month for bandwidth and I charge $50 so
 once I get to 10 customers I’m profitable.  Then a year later you’re at 100
 customers which seems like success, but you have maxed out your credit
 cards and aren’t drawing a salary and can’t hire a full time installer, and
 you need major network upgrades and don’t have the cash.

 Also while you don’t need to budget every penny, you need realistic
 estimates of all your costs, not just the big, obvious ones.  Like assuming
 you take credit cards, some of the revenue will go to processing fees and
 “discount”.  You will have some bad debt from customers who don’t pay, and
 you will have some churn if only because people move, get divorced, and
 die.  You will go through supplies like cable and hardware for
 installations, and you will spend a certain amount on maintenance.  You
 will have costs like insurance and lawyers and accountants and postage and
 utilities.  At least come up with a rough number for these, and refine
 based on experience.

 If you use your own vehicle, at least pay yourself the IRS standard
 amount for mileage.

 Find another WISP nearby and make an arrangement to cover for each other
 in case of sickness or just so you can get away for a few days.

 Decide what your business hours are and how to handle calls outside
 business hours.  Also decide on a way to notify customers if you have a
 major outage so you aren’t answering the phone when you should be working
 on a problem.  For example, a message on your voicemail.

 Train your customers from day one.  For example, let calls go to
 voicemail after hours and call them back, or they will assume they can call
 any time of day or night.  Or if you say you will suspend service when
 payment is X days late, do it.  If they never get to expecting things, they
 won’t be pissed off when you take them away.  Like Trevor used to answer
 his cellphone at all hours, now I have to call the office and leave a
 message.  Or the service has really gone downhill, I used to get 20 meg
 speeds now I only get 10 (even though they are on a 5 meg plan).  Or I used
 to wait 3 months and then pay up, now if I’m 5 days late, they cut me off.
 Better to set their expectations early.


  *From:* Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com
 *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2015 6:34 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New WISP


 Have a million dollars.  Cash.
 On Jan 6, 2015 5:23 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
 wrote:

 Get a billing system.  Powercode or whatever.

 Don't finance customers that can't pay up front, wastes billing time
 instead of installing more customers.

 Don't use your cell phone for the office.  Get a hosted PBX.  Close the
 shop so you don't get burnt out, have other people and or a call center.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 On Jan 6, 2015 7:21 PM, Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi guys, long time listener, first time caller. I'm looking at starting
 a new rural WISP and was wondering if you guys could share some of the
 things you wish you had known when you started out. Things to absolutely
 stay away from, things that you didn't think of first, but made your life
 10x easier, etc. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Jeremy]

I swapped a customer from an old school WISP recently, didn't replace the
unshielded cable...in a heavy lightning area.  Storm came in and we lost
everything...router radio, everything.  Swapped it out for shielded with
this method and the next storm only lost the radio and POE.  I've seen this
dozens of times.  The Dragonwave training seminar also said shielded to the
POE and unshielded out.  I haven't lost a switchport to lightning in two
years.  Keeping it outside the building is definitely the way to go for
direct strikes but for neat field strikes the static will discharge to
ground and that is usually the Ethernet port.

On Jan 6, 2015 6:30 PM, cstann...@gmail.com wrote:

 Oh and if a customer is a huge PITA or doesn't want to pay, the answer is
 not to keep trying to please them, it's sorry we couldn't please you,
 here's a refund for the install (if they're not in arrears) and the phone
 number of our (least liked) competitor.
 --
 *From: * Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com
 *Sender: * Af af-boun...@afmug.com
 *Date: *Wed, 7 Jan 2015 00:21:09 +
 *To: *af@afmug.com
 *ReplyTo: * af@afmug.com
 *Subject: *[AFMUG] New WISP

 Hi guys, long time listener, first time caller. I'm looking at starting a
 new rural WISP and was wondering if you guys could share some of the things
 you wish you had known when you started out. Things to absolutely stay away
 from, things that you didn't think of first, but made your life 10x easier,
 etc. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Jason McKemie]

Wha?  I think doing your own installs is fine, especially in the
beginning.  You learn a few things, can get your CPE set up the way you
want it, and save money.

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 7:51 PM, Jon Langeler jon-ispli...@michwave.net
wrote:

 don't do your own installs.

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Josh Luthman]

I prefer doing my own installs but it doesn't matter too much if it is done
right.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jan 6, 2015 8:51 PM, Jon Langeler jon-ispli...@michwave.net wrote:

 don't bother with anything single polarity at this stage. don't do your
 own installs. be well funded. have free help. things like that...

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 6, 2015, at 7:21 PM, Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi guys, long time listener, first time caller. I'm looking at starting a
 new rural WISP and was wondering if you guys could share some of the things
 you wish you had known when you started out. Things to absolutely stay away
 from, things that you didn't think of first, but made your life 10x easier,
 etc. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

and as soon as you stand up to them they'll beg you to let them stay.

  - Original Message - 
  From: cstann...@gmail.com 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 7:30 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP


  Oh and if a customer is a huge PITA or doesn't want to pay, the answer is not 
to keep trying to please them, it's sorry we couldn't please you, here's a 
refund for the install (if they're not in arrears) and the phone number of our 
(least liked) competitor.

--

  From: Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com 
  Sender: Af af-boun...@afmug.com 
  Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2015 00:21:09 +
  To: af@afmug.com
  ReplyTo: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: [AFMUG] New WISP


  Hi guys, long time listener, first time caller. I'm looking at starting a new 
rural WISP and was wondering if you guys could share some of the things you 
wish you had known when you started out. Things to absolutely stay away from, 
things that you didn't think of first, but made your life 10x easier, etc. Any 
info would be greatly appreciated!

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Trevor Bough]

Thank you very much for the specifics! I figured a grant would come with a
ton of paperwork, but not to that extent.
On Jan 6, 2015 8:31 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies m...@mailmt.com
wrote:

 Trevor,

 We received a grant about 4-5 years ago.  Almost done with the
 project.  I would not even think about how hard it would have been
 juggling the grant stuff with a new startup unless I had a bunch of
 startup investment money.

 Usually the grants are for build out only, operational stuff is not
 included.  For example, we pay at least $25k a year for auditors and
 accountants because of the grant.  Not to mention we hired a
 bookkeeper just to keep track of government paperwork dealing with the
 grant.  Neither of those are fundable expenses.

 --
 Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

 Myakka Technologies, Inc.
 www.MyakkaTech.com

 Proud Sponsor of the Myakka City Relay For Life
 http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL

 Please Donate at
 http://main.acsevents.org/site/TR/RelayForLife/RFLFY12FL?team_id=1030009pg=teamfr_id=37555
 --

 Tuesday, January 6, 2015, 9:23:29 PM, you wrote:

 TB Ha ha what are the big problems with them? I know there have
 TB to be problems due to the fact you are dealing with the government.

 TB On Jan 6, 2015 8:18 PM, Craig House
 TB cr...@totalhighspeed.net wrote:
 TB Run away dont walk







 TB From: Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com
 TB To: af@afmug.com
 TB Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 8:17:48 PM
 TB Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP


 TB You guys are great! Thank you for all of the great advice! I
 TB truly appreciate it. Does anyone have any experience with
 TB government grants?












 ---
 This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
 protection is active.
 http://www.avast.com

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Adam Moffett]

I think Travis Hayes said in his speech at AF one year that a good 
accountant and a good lawyer are both critical.



+1 on the accountant.  You need an accountant.

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com 
mailto:trevorbo...@gmail.com wrote:


Thank you very much for the specifics! I figured a grant would
come with a ton of paperwork, but not to that extent.

On Jan 6, 2015 8:31 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies
m...@mailmt.com mailto:m...@mailmt.com wrote:

Trevor,

We received a grant about 4-5 years ago.  Almost done with the
project.  I would not even think about how hard it would have been
juggling the grant stuff with a new startup unless I had a
bunch of
startup investment money.

Usually the grants are for build out only, operational stuff
is not
included.  For example, we pay at least $25k a year for
auditors and
accountants because of the grant.  Not to mention we hired a
bookkeeper just to keep track of government paperwork dealing
with the
grant.  Neither of those are fundable expenses.

--
Best regards,
 Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com http://www.MyakkaTech.com

Proud Sponsor of the Myakka City Relay For Life
http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL

Please Donate at

http://main.acsevents.org/site/TR/RelayForLife/RFLFY12FL?team_id=1030009pg=teamfr_id=37555
--

Tuesday, January 6, 2015, 9:23:29 PM, you wrote:

TB Ha ha what are the big problems with them? I know there have
TB to be problems due to the fact you are dealing with the
government.

TB On Jan 6, 2015 8:18 PM, Craig House
TB cr...@totalhighspeed.net
mailto:cr...@totalhighspeed.net wrote:
TB Run away dont walk







TB From: Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com
mailto:trevorbo...@gmail.com
TB To: af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com
TB Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 8:17:48 PM
TB Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP


TB You guys are great! Thank you for all of the great advice! I
TB truly appreciate it. Does anyone have any experience with
TB government grants?












---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast!
Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[cstanners]

Oh and if a customer is a huge PITA or doesn't want to pay, the answer is not 
to keep trying to please them, it's sorry we couldn't please you, here's a 
refund for the install (if they're not in arrears) and the phone number of our 
(least liked) competitor.

-Original Message-
From: Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com
Sender: Af af-boun...@afmug.com
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2015 00:21:09 
To: af@afmug.com
Reply-To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] New WISP

Hi guys, long time listener, first time caller. I'm looking at starting a
new rural WISP and was wondering if you guys could share some of the things
you wish you had known when you started out. Things to absolutely stay away
from, things that you didn't think of first, but made your life 10x easier,
etc. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[cstanners]

Shielded cable is for protection against high-power RF interference, it does 
not correctly protect from ESD as it leads inside the house. The grounding on 
your tripod or mast is the protection from ESD and keeps surges outside the 
house.


-Original Message-
From: Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com
Sender: Af af-boun...@afmug.com
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2015 01:29:25 
To: af@afmug.com
Reply-To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

Shielded cable with shielded connectors on every install.  I recommend
Shireen on towers and installs.  A lot of the guys use UBNT tough cable.
Whatever, just shield and ground.  If you cut in wallplates (you
should...it is more professional), use shielded keystone jacks and shielded
patch cables.  I use unshielded patch cables from the POE to the router.
This has saved a ton of routers and NICs from ESD because the path to
ground does not extend to the router.  You may spend a bit more on supplies
but you will have less service calls.  Opinions cary on this subject but I
have worked for a very large company that we all know and this practice
probably cut service calls after lightning storms by 20%.

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 I explain it like this:  Routers are made like light bulbs.  They are
 pretty much engineered to fail.  If you get one that lasts three years you
 are lucky.  All routers lock up and need power cycled once in awhile.  As
 they get older they start to need it regularly.  When it gets to the point
 that you are power cycling your router all the time it is time to buy a new
 router.  Don't spend $250 on a router because it will likely fail just as
 quickly as the $70 router.  This has saved me so many issues.

 On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:21 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 pwer?  power cycle their router!

 On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:20 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 Yeah, seriously though.  Cash flow statement is essential.  MOST WISPs
 fail within three years because they don't make it to cash flow positive
 before they run out of operating capital.  Do not underestimate your
 expenses.  Track everything.  TRAIN YOUR CUSTOMERS.  If you have overages,
 bandwidth limitations, ect. let them know up front.  Tell every customer to
 pwer their router if they don't have Internet (show them how), THEN call
 you if that doesn't work.  This will save close to 90% of your calls.

 On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:13 PM, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com wrote:

   Not totally joking.  Undercapitalization is a major mistake of most
 startups including WISPs.  You need money to make money.

 Make a month-by-month plan for your first 2 years and do a cashflow
 spreadsheet.  Set targets for how many installs you plan to do each month,
 how much you revenue you will generate, how much you need to spend on
 equipment and recurring expenses.  Set milestones for when you can fund
 growth from cashflow, when you have repaid your initial investment or
 loans, when you need to add staff and will the money be there, etc.  Review
 progress each month and adjust as necessary.  But this will help you avoid
 being underfunded to achieve your goals, or not reaching profitability in a
 reasonable timeframe.  It’s too easy starting out to use a simple
 calculation like I’m paying $500/month for bandwidth and I charge $50 so
 once I get to 10 customers I’m profitable.  Then a year later you’re at 100
 customers which seems like success, but you have maxed out your credit
 cards and aren’t drawing a salary and can’t hire a full time installer, and
 you need major network upgrades and don’t have the cash.

 Also while you don’t need to budget every penny, you need realistic
 estimates of all your costs, not just the big, obvious ones.  Like assuming
 you take credit cards, some of the revenue will go to processing fees and
 “discount”.  You will have some bad debt from customers who don’t pay, and
 you will have some churn if only because people move, get divorced, and
 die.  You will go through supplies like cable and hardware for
 installations, and you will spend a certain amount on maintenance.  You
 will have costs like insurance and lawyers and accountants and postage and
 utilities.  At least come up with a rough number for these, and refine
 based on experience.

 If you use your own vehicle, at least pay yourself the IRS standard
 amount for mileage.

 Find another WISP nearby and make an arrangement to cover for each
 other in case of sickness or just so you can get away for a few days.

 Decide what your business hours are and how to handle calls outside
 business hours.  Also decide on a way to notify customers if you have a
 major outage so you aren’t answering the phone when you should be working
 on a problem.  For example, a message on your voicemail.

 Train your customers from day one.  For example, let calls go to
 voicemail after hours and call them back, or they will assume they can call
 any time of day or night

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Jon Langeler]

don't bother with anything single polarity at this stage. don't do your own 
installs. be well funded. have free help. things like that...

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 6, 2015, at 7:21 PM, Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi guys, long time listener, first time caller. I'm looking at starting a new 
 rural WISP and was wondering if you guys could share some of the things you 
 wish you had known when you started out. Things to absolutely stay away from, 
 things that you didn't think of first, but made your life 10x easier, etc. 
 Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Trevor,

We received a grant about 4-5 years ago.  Almost done with the
project.  I would not even think about how hard it would have been
juggling the grant stuff with a new startup unless I had a bunch of
startup investment money.

Usually the grants are for build out only, operational stuff is not
included.  For example, we pay at least $25k a year for auditors and
accountants because of the grant.  Not to mention we hired a
bookkeeper just to keep track of government paperwork dealing with the
grant.  Neither of those are fundable expenses.

-- 
Best regards,
 Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

Proud Sponsor of the Myakka City Relay For Life
http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL

Please Donate at 
http://main.acsevents.org/site/TR/RelayForLife/RFLFY12FL?team_id=1030009pg=teamfr_id=37555
--

Tuesday, January 6, 2015, 9:23:29 PM, you wrote:

TB Ha ha what are the big problems with them? I know there have
TB to be problems due to the fact you are dealing with the government.

TB On Jan 6, 2015 8:18 PM, Craig House
TB cr...@totalhighspeed.net wrote:
TB Run away dont walk







TB From: Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com
TB To: af@afmug.com
TB Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 8:17:48 PM
TB Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP


TB You guys are great! Thank you for all of the great advice! I
TB truly appreciate it. Does anyone have any experience with
TB government grants?









  


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection 
is active.
http://www.avast.com

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Jeremy]

If you say so.  As I said...there is a lot of debate on this subject.  If
you get an ESD it follows the path to ground through the POE and to earth
ground.

On Jan 6, 2015 6:34 PM, cstann...@gmail.com wrote:

 Shielded cable is for protection against high-power RF interference, it
 does not correctly protect from ESD as it leads inside the house. The
 grounding on your tripod or mast is the protection from ESD and keeps
 surges outside the house.

 --
 *From: * Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com
 *Sender: * Af af-boun...@afmug.com
 *Date: *Wed, 7 Jan 2015 01:29:25 +
 *To: *af@afmug.com
 *ReplyTo: * af@afmug.com
 *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

 Shielded cable with shielded connectors on every install.  I recommend
 Shireen on towers and installs.  A lot of the guys use UBNT tough cable.
 Whatever, just shield and ground.  If you cut in wallplates (you
 should...it is more professional), use shielded keystone jacks and shielded
 patch cables.  I use unshielded patch cables from the POE to the router.
 This has saved a ton of routers and NICs from ESD because the path to
 ground does not extend to the router.  You may spend a bit more on supplies
 but you will have less service calls.  Opinions cary on this subject but I
 have worked for a very large company that we all know and this practice
 probably cut service calls after lightning storms by 20%.

 On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 I explain it like this:  Routers are made like light bulbs.  They are
 pretty much engineered to fail.  If you get one that lasts three years you
 are lucky.  All routers lock up and need power cycled once in awhile.  As
 they get older they start to need it regularly.  When it gets to the point
 that you are power cycling your router all the time it is time to buy a new
 router.  Don't spend $250 on a router because it will likely fail just as
 quickly as the $70 router.  This has saved me so many issues.

 On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:21 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 pwer?  power cycle their router!

 On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:20 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 Yeah, seriously though.  Cash flow statement is essential.  MOST WISPs
 fail within three years because they don't make it to cash flow positive
 before they run out of operating capital.  Do not underestimate your
 expenses.  Track everything.  TRAIN YOUR CUSTOMERS.  If you have overages,
 bandwidth limitations, ect. let them know up front.  Tell every customer to
 pwer their router if they don't have Internet (show them how), THEN call
 you if that doesn't work.  This will save close to 90% of your calls.

 On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:13 PM, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com wrote:

   Not totally joking.  Undercapitalization is a major mistake of most
 startups including WISPs.  You need money to make money.

 Make a month-by-month plan for your first 2 years and do a cashflow
 spreadsheet.  Set targets for how many installs you plan to do each month,
 how much you revenue you will generate, how much you need to spend on
 equipment and recurring expenses.  Set milestones for when you can fund
 growth from cashflow, when you have repaid your initial investment or
 loans, when you need to add staff and will the money be there, etc.  
 Review
 progress each month and adjust as necessary.  But this will help you avoid
 being underfunded to achieve your goals, or not reaching profitability in 
 a
 reasonable timeframe.  It’s too easy starting out to use a simple
 calculation like I’m paying $500/month for bandwidth and I charge $50 so
 once I get to 10 customers I’m profitable.  Then a year later you’re at 
 100
 customers which seems like success, but you have maxed out your credit
 cards and aren’t drawing a salary and can’t hire a full time installer, 
 and
 you need major network upgrades and don’t have the cash.

 Also while you don’t need to budget every penny, you need realistic
 estimates of all your costs, not just the big, obvious ones.  Like 
 assuming
 you take credit cards, some of the revenue will go to processing fees and
 “discount”.  You will have some bad debt from customers who don’t pay, and
 you will have some churn if only because people move, get divorced, and
 die.  You will go through supplies like cable and hardware for
 installations, and you will spend a certain amount on maintenance.  You
 will have costs like insurance and lawyers and accountants and postage and
 utilities.  At least come up with a rough number for these, and refine
 based on experience.

 If you use your own vehicle, at least pay yourself the IRS standard
 amount for mileage.

 Find another WISP nearby and make an arrangement to cover for each
 other in case of sickness or just so you can get away for a few days.

 Decide what your business hours are and how to handle calls outside
 business hours.  Also decide on a way to notify customers if you have a
 major outage so you aren’t answering

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Adam Moffett]

Don't compromise on backup power.  You may hear it argued that if the 
tower doesn't have power the customers don't eitherI've never found 
that to be true.


There are a few customers who aren't worth having.

and +1 to everything Ken said.  Especially on planning and 
capitalization.  I had a front row seat watching a WISP be built 
organically from nothingfor the owner it was a particularly long, 
hard struggle and it took its toll on him.





Hi guys, long time listener, first time caller. I'm looking at 
starting a new rural WISP and was wondering if you guys could share 
some of the things you wish you had known when you started out. Things 
to absolutely stay away from, things that you didn't think of first, 
but made your life 10x easier, etc. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Trevor Bough]

Ha ha what are the big problems with them? I know there have to be problems
due to the fact you are dealing with the government.
On Jan 6, 2015 8:18 PM, Craig House cr...@totalhighspeed.net wrote:

 Run away dont walk


 --
 *From: *Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com
 *To: *af@afmug.com
 *Sent: *Tuesday, January 6, 2015 8:17:48 PM
 *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

 You guys are great! Thank you for all of the great advice! I truly
 appreciate it. Does anyone have any experience with government grants?

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Ken Hohhof]

Oh, that brings up another point.  If at all possible, get your own public IP 
address space and autonomous system number.  And don’t NAT a bunch of customers 
to one public IP.


From: Jerry Richardson 
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 8:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

A big one is to know where your bandwidth will come from, initially and when 
you need more. If possible a source that can be increased as needed as changing 
ISPs is a huge PITA



Jerry Richardson 
airCloud Communications

On Jan 6, 2015, at 5:16 PM, cstann...@gmail.com wrote:


  Have high installation standards - good signal level, well-attached mounts 
and cabling, everything high is grounded, and don't use 
temporary/weird/hard-to-access wood poles or popups. No exceptions to those 
since almost every one will bite you in the butt later, some of our competitors 
and super-cheap wifi guys and many of the times we swap customers a complete 
reinstall is required.

--

  From: Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com 
  Sender: Af af-boun...@afmug.com 
  Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2015 00:21:09 +
  To: af@afmug.com
  ReplyTo: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: [AFMUG] New WISP

  Hi guys, long time listener, first time caller. I'm looking at starting a new 
rural WISP and was wondering if you guys could share some of the things you 
wish you had known when you started out. Things to absolutely stay away from, 
things that you didn't think of first, but made your life 10x easier, etc. Any 
info would be greatly appreciated!

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Jeremy]

Expect to not have any free time and virtually no vacation time for about
three years (I'm still at the office right now and it is 8:00pm here)

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 7:44 PM, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com wrote:

   Oh, that brings up another point.  If at all possible, get your own
 public IP address space and autonomous system number.  And don’t NAT a
 bunch of customers to one public IP.


  *From:* Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com
 *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2015 8:22 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

  A big one is to know where your bandwidth will come from, initially and
 when you need more. If possible a source that can be increased as needed as
 changing ISPs is a huge PITA



 Jerry Richardson
 airCloud Communications

 On Jan 6, 2015, at 5:16 PM, cstann...@gmail.com wrote:

  Have high installation standards - good signal level, well-attached
 mounts and cabling, everything high is grounded, and don't use
 temporary/weird/hard-to-access wood poles or popups. No exceptions to those
 since almost every one will bite you in the butt later, some of our
 competitors and super-cheap wifi guys and many of the times we swap
 customers a complete reinstall is required.
 --
 *From: *Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com
 *Sender: *Af af-boun...@afmug.com
 *Date: *Wed, 7 Jan 2015 00:21:09 +
 *To: *af@afmug.com
 *ReplyTo: *af@afmug.com
 *Subject: *[AFMUG] New WISP


 Hi guys, long time listener, first time caller. I'm looking at starting a
 new rural WISP and was wondering if you guys could share some of the things
 you wish you had known when you started out. Things to absolutely stay away
 from, things that you didn't think of first, but made your life 10x easier,
 etc. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[Mark Radabaugh]

Attend either Animal Farm (www.afmug.com http://www.afmug.com/) or the WISPA 
show in St Louis 
http://www.cvent.com/events/wispamerica-2015/event-summary-5fddb419659f4b57871bfd2d0b690a85.aspx
 
http://www.cvent.com/events/wispamerica-2015/event-summary-5fddb419659f4b57871bfd2d0b690a85.aspx
 

You will learn a lot at either show.

Mark

 On Jan 6, 2015, at 7:21 PM, Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi guys, long time listener, first time caller. I'm looking at starting a new 
 rural WISP and was wondering if you guys could share some of the things you 
 wish you had known when you started out. Things to absolutely stay away from, 
 things that you didn't think of first, but made your life 10x easier, etc. 
 Any info would be greatly appreciated!
 

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP

[That One Guy]

Think long and hard about your upstream options. Im sitting here with a
down network because of our ASN hanging out in a BGP void our upstream
created. My boss can fire me over this, if youre the owner, you wont have
anybody to fire

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 9:43 PM, Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:

  I think Travis Hayes said in his speech at AF one year that a good
 accountant and a good lawyer are both critical.

  +1 on the accountant.  You need an accountant.

 On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Thank you very much for the specifics! I figured a grant would come with
 a ton of paperwork, but not to that extent.
  On Jan 6, 2015 8:31 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies m...@mailmt.com
 wrote:

 Trevor,

 We received a grant about 4-5 years ago.  Almost done with the
 project.  I would not even think about how hard it would have been
 juggling the grant stuff with a new startup unless I had a bunch of
 startup investment money.

 Usually the grants are for build out only, operational stuff is not
 included.  For example, we pay at least $25k a year for auditors and
 accountants because of the grant.  Not to mention we hired a
 bookkeeper just to keep track of government paperwork dealing with the
 grant.  Neither of those are fundable expenses.

 --
 Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

 Myakka Technologies, Inc.
 www.MyakkaTech.com

 Proud Sponsor of the Myakka City Relay For Life
 http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL

 Please Donate at
 http://main.acsevents.org/site/TR/RelayForLife/RFLFY12FL?team_id=1030009pg=teamfr_id=37555
 --

 Tuesday, January 6, 2015, 9:23:29 PM, you wrote:

 TB Ha ha what are the big problems with them? I know there have
 TB to be problems due to the fact you are dealing with the government.

 TB On Jan 6, 2015 8:18 PM, Craig House
 TB cr...@totalhighspeed.net wrote:
 TB Run away dont walk







 TB From: Trevor Bough trevorbo...@gmail.com
 TB To: af@afmug.com
 TB Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 8:17:48 PM
 TB Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP


 TB You guys are great! Thank you for all of the great advice! I
 TB truly appreciate it. Does anyone have any experience with
 TB government grants?












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