Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Chuck McCown]

For some reason this thread reminded me of G line...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goubau_line

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 2:39 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

Local hippies will go nuts if we start drilling many dozens of trees and 
attaching stuff. The place where the PTP radios go on the far end of the copper 
and fiber can have some trees trimmed... 


Thankfully this is in an area where there is zero risk of damage from off 
road/ATV or 4x4s, somebody would have to maliciously go into the forest and 
decide to mess with the fiber. Squirrel and mouse/rat chewing is definitely 
something to think about.


On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 7:18 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  Aerial.  Use drive hooks in trees.  Run a messenger strand for support and 
zip tie the cables to it.  Better yet lash it.  

  From: Eric Kuhnke 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:21 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

  Now to figure out how to economically do 2250+ ft (about 700m) of somewhat 
flexible duct through a forest... 




  On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:03 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

always do a duct, always. A cable of any type is always nice, but a really 
long hole is always better. When I become rich man and can put stuff in dirt it 
will always be a path for something else. Expensive containers and cheap 
removable innards, like those washable condoms of yore.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:24 PM, Trey Scarborough <t...@3dsc.co> wrote:

  what are you planning on using for the fiber? just laying it on the 
ground as well. I would use liquid tight and pull through some solid 18awg that 
would last the longest or some inch and a quarter duct and pull both through.

  On 7/6/2016 1:38 PM, Jeremy wrote:

Not sure what kind of rodents you have there, but I definitely recommend
conduit and buried.  I have seen conduit not buried through the woods
and it gets squished and broken (if it is PVC) by Moose, deer, etc.  I
have seen direct burial not in conduit eaten by Gophers or Voles or some
crap.  Those kind of jobs are usually the type that you don't want to do
twice.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

Use isolation transformers.  And call it a speaker wire.  You are
sending a loud 60 cycle tone.

*From:* Eric Kuhnke <mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:10 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
        *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

Yeah, can't do either of those...  Burying it to Canadian electrical
code compliant depth through 700 meters (2296 ft) of forest, fallen
trees and rocks isn't going to happen. There is the slight
possibility of electrical inspection based on where the power would
be coming from.

Using a 110/240VAC input active PFC 200W power supply that can
output 54.5VDC and a DC-DC converter on the load end to bring things
back to normal 46-48VDC will work.

AC to DC meanwell RSP-200-48, $41
DC-DC meanwell SD-200C-48 $71



On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com

<mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Or you could buck it to 480VAC or more...



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 7/6/2016 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  240 AC over direct burial romex.  All the power you might 
want.

  *From:* Eric Kuhnke <mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
  *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 10:29 AM
  *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
      *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

  It's looking like $0.25/ft for the cable and the singlemode
  fiber is less...  Also the area is totally filled with trees,
  trees cannot be cut for various reasons, it's the side of a
  bluff on a hilltop. Branches and a few things in one
  particular direction (about 10 degrees of azimuth) would be
  cut to put in the PTP link. North of 49 latitude.

  With DC power over 14AWG it could be enough power for up to
  75W of radios on the far end. Off grid solar to do this would
  be $4000 of panels batteries enclosure, charge controller.

  Very challenging site for solar, if you were to camp there you
  might see 2-3 hours of direct sunlight per day m

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Eric Kuhnke]

Local hippies will go nuts if we start drilling many dozens of trees and
attaching stuff. The place where the PTP radios go on the far end of the
copper and fiber can have some trees trimmed...

Thankfully this is in an area where there is zero risk of damage from off
road/ATV or 4x4s, somebody would have to maliciously go into the forest and
decide to mess with the fiber. Squirrel and mouse/rat chewing is definitely
something to think about.

On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 7:18 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> Aerial.  Use drive hooks in trees.  Run a messenger strand for support and
> zip tie the cables to it.  Better yet lash it.
>
> *From:* Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:21 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor
>
> Now to figure out how to economically do 2250+ ft (about 700m) of somewhat
> flexible duct through a forest...
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:03 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> always do a duct, always. A cable of any type is always nice, but a
>> really long hole is always better. When I become rich man and can put stuff
>> in dirt it will always be a path for something else. Expensive containers
>> and cheap removable innards, like those washable condoms of yore.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:24 PM, Trey Scarborough <t...@3dsc.co> wrote:
>>
>>> what are you planning on using for the fiber? just laying it on the
>>> ground as well. I would use liquid tight and pull through some solid 18awg
>>> that would last the longest or some inch and a quarter duct and pull both
>>> through.
>>>
>>> On 7/6/2016 1:38 PM, Jeremy wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not sure what kind of rodents you have there, but I definitely recommend
>>>> conduit and buried.  I have seen conduit not buried through the woods
>>>> and it gets squished and broken (if it is PVC) by Moose, deer, etc.  I
>>>> have seen direct burial not in conduit eaten by Gophers or Voles or some
>>>> crap.  Those kind of jobs are usually the type that you don't want to do
>>>> twice.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com
>>>> <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Use isolation transformers.  And call it a speaker wire.  You are
>>>> sending a loud 60 cycle tone.
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Eric Kuhnke <mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:10 AM
>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, can't do either of those...  Burying it to Canadian electrical
>>>> code compliant depth through 700 meters (2296 ft) of forest, fallen
>>>> trees and rocks isn't going to happen. There is the slight
>>>> possibility of electrical inspection based on where the power would
>>>> be coming from.
>>>>
>>>> Using a 110/240VAC input active PFC 200W power supply that can
>>>> output 54.5VDC and a DC-DC converter on the load end to bring things
>>>> back to normal 46-48VDC will work.
>>>>
>>>> AC to DC meanwell RSP-200-48, $41
>>>> DC-DC meanwell SD-200C-48 $71
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Or you could buck it to 480VAC or more...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> bp
>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>
>>>> On 7/6/2016 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> 240 AC over direct burial romex.  All the power you might want.
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Eric Kuhnke <mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 10:29 AM
>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor
>>>>>
>>>>> It's looking like $0.25/ft for the cable and the singlemode
>>>>> fiber is less...  Also the area is totally filled with trees,
>>>>> trees cannot be cut for various reasons, 

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Ken Hohhof]

Squirrels will love their new superhighway.

From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 9:18 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

Aerial.  Use drive hooks in trees.  Run a messenger strand for support and zip 
tie the cables to it.  Better yet lash it.  

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:21 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

Now to figure out how to economically do 2250+ ft (about 700m) of somewhat 
flexible duct through a forest... 




On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:03 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

  always do a duct, always. A cable of any type is always nice, but a really 
long hole is always better. When I become rich man and can put stuff in dirt it 
will always be a path for something else. Expensive containers and cheap 
removable innards, like those washable condoms of yore.

  On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:24 PM, Trey Scarborough <t...@3dsc.co> wrote:

what are you planning on using for the fiber? just laying it on the ground 
as well. I would use liquid tight and pull through some solid 18awg that would 
last the longest or some inch and a quarter duct and pull both through.

On 7/6/2016 1:38 PM, Jeremy wrote:

  Not sure what kind of rodents you have there, but I definitely recommend
  conduit and buried.  I have seen conduit not buried through the woods
  and it gets squished and broken (if it is PVC) by Moose, deer, etc.  I
  have seen direct burial not in conduit eaten by Gophers or Voles or some
  crap.  Those kind of jobs are usually the type that you don't want to do
  twice.

  On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com
  <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

  Use isolation transformers.  And call it a speaker wire.  You are
  sending a loud 60 cycle tone.

  *From:* Eric Kuhnke <mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
  *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:10 AM
  *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
      *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

  Yeah, can't do either of those...  Burying it to Canadian electrical
  code compliant depth through 700 meters (2296 ft) of forest, fallen
  trees and rocks isn't going to happen. There is the slight
  possibility of electrical inspection based on where the power would
  be coming from.

  Using a 110/240VAC input active PFC 200W power supply that can
  output 54.5VDC and a DC-DC converter on the load end to bring things
  back to normal 46-48VDC will work.

  AC to DC meanwell RSP-200-48, $41
  DC-DC meanwell SD-200C-48 $71



  On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com

  <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

  Or you could buck it to 480VAC or more...



  bp
  <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

  On 7/6/2016 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

240 AC over direct burial romex.  All the power you might want.

*From:* Eric Kuhnke <mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 10:29 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

It's looking like $0.25/ft for the cable and the singlemode
fiber is less...  Also the area is totally filled with trees,
trees cannot be cut for various reasons, it's the side of a
bluff on a hilltop. Branches and a few things in one
particular direction (about 10 degrees of azimuth) would be
cut to put in the PTP link. North of 49 latitude.

With DC power over 14AWG it could be enough power for up to
75W of radios on the far end. Off grid solar to do this would
be $4000 of panels batteries enclosure, charge controller.

Very challenging site for solar, if you were to camp there you
might see 2-3 hours of direct sunlight per day max due to tree
shading.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Bill Prince

<part15...@gmail.com <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

For that amount of cable, at 50 cents a foot, I would
probably do a small solar setup. What is the latitude?


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>


On 7/5/2016 4:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network
link where a PTP radio will go on the side of a tree
on the opposite side of a mounta

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Chuck McCown]

Aerial.  Use drive hooks in trees.  Run a messenger strand for support and zip 
tie the cables to it.  Better yet lash it.  

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:21 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

Now to figure out how to economically do 2250+ ft (about 700m) of somewhat 
flexible duct through a forest... 




On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:03 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

  always do a duct, always. A cable of any type is always nice, but a really 
long hole is always better. When I become rich man and can put stuff in dirt it 
will always be a path for something else. Expensive containers and cheap 
removable innards, like those washable condoms of yore.

  On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:24 PM, Trey Scarborough <t...@3dsc.co> wrote:

what are you planning on using for the fiber? just laying it on the ground 
as well. I would use liquid tight and pull through some solid 18awg that would 
last the longest or some inch and a quarter duct and pull both through.

On 7/6/2016 1:38 PM, Jeremy wrote:

  Not sure what kind of rodents you have there, but I definitely recommend
  conduit and buried.  I have seen conduit not buried through the woods
  and it gets squished and broken (if it is PVC) by Moose, deer, etc.  I
  have seen direct burial not in conduit eaten by Gophers or Voles or some
  crap.  Those kind of jobs are usually the type that you don't want to do
  twice.

  On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com
  <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

  Use isolation transformers.  And call it a speaker wire.  You are
  sending a loud 60 cycle tone.

  *From:* Eric Kuhnke <mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
  *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:10 AM
  *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
      *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

  Yeah, can't do either of those...  Burying it to Canadian electrical
  code compliant depth through 700 meters (2296 ft) of forest, fallen
  trees and rocks isn't going to happen. There is the slight
  possibility of electrical inspection based on where the power would
  be coming from.

  Using a 110/240VAC input active PFC 200W power supply that can
  output 54.5VDC and a DC-DC converter on the load end to bring things
  back to normal 46-48VDC will work.

  AC to DC meanwell RSP-200-48, $41
  DC-DC meanwell SD-200C-48 $71



  On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com

  <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

  Or you could buck it to 480VAC or more...



  bp
  <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

  On 7/6/2016 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

240 AC over direct burial romex.  All the power you might want.

*From:* Eric Kuhnke <mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 10:29 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

It's looking like $0.25/ft for the cable and the singlemode
fiber is less...  Also the area is totally filled with trees,
trees cannot be cut for various reasons, it's the side of a
bluff on a hilltop. Branches and a few things in one
particular direction (about 10 degrees of azimuth) would be
cut to put in the PTP link. North of 49 latitude.

With DC power over 14AWG it could be enough power for up to
75W of radios on the far end. Off grid solar to do this would
be $4000 of panels batteries enclosure, charge controller.

Very challenging site for solar, if you were to camp there you
might see 2-3 hours of direct sunlight per day max due to tree
shading.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Bill Prince

<part15...@gmail.com <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

For that amount of cable, at 50 cents a foot, I would
probably do a small solar setup. What is the latitude?


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>


On 7/5/2016 4:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network
link where a PTP radio will go on the side of a tree
on the opposite side of a mountain from where AC
power, a router and other network equipment is located.

We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of sin

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

whats the cost of replacing the 2 runs of other stuff one time? or splicing
a single one three times in three years? or 20. a "duct" to me would be
anything "legal" to lay on the deck that is hardened. a half mile of
anything will be expensive two half miles of anything will be really
expensive two half miles with a cut, super expensive. Im a worst case
scenario guy who assumes everyone who is not older me is 16 year old me,
who will cut anything he finds. Older me would always rather have an
oversized channel that I can put a box on when the 16 year old dick me cuts
it and pull cheap stuff through.
Now, youre not in 'merca! where we are all egocentric self centered dicks,
youre in polite Canada where people apologize for being mugged, so
vandalism and malfeasance probably isnt a concern so the thought process
might be different, but here I also envision a serene wooded landscape with
a quiet fiber run next to a low voltage power cable suddenly ripped from
the surroundings by johnny redneck and his drunk hillbilly buddies ripping
across it in his lifted Chevy with  tearing 10 inch deep ruts.
Id rather toss in a junction box/handhole and splice clean the cheap cables
or even pull two full runs of $X*1/ft cable than two runs of $X*5/ft cable
Being American I also assume using the oversized "duct" allows me to
eventually pull 5 more cables through it, since, as an American, more is
better and even more is best
:-)

On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 12:21 AM, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Now to figure out how to economically do 2250+ ft (about 700m) of somewhat
> flexible duct through a forest...
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:03 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> always do a duct, always. A cable of any type is always nice, but a
>> really long hole is always better. When I become rich man and can put stuff
>> in dirt it will always be a path for something else. Expensive containers
>> and cheap removable innards, like those washable condoms of yore.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:24 PM, Trey Scarborough <t...@3dsc.co> wrote:
>>
>>> what are you planning on using for the fiber? just laying it on the
>>> ground as well. I would use liquid tight and pull through some solid 18awg
>>> that would last the longest or some inch and a quarter duct and pull both
>>> through.
>>>
>>> On 7/6/2016 1:38 PM, Jeremy wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not sure what kind of rodents you have there, but I definitely recommend
>>>> conduit and buried.  I have seen conduit not buried through the woods
>>>> and it gets squished and broken (if it is PVC) by Moose, deer, etc.  I
>>>> have seen direct burial not in conduit eaten by Gophers or Voles or some
>>>> crap.  Those kind of jobs are usually the type that you don't want to do
>>>> twice.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com
>>>> <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Use isolation transformers.  And call it a speaker wire.  You are
>>>> sending a loud 60 cycle tone.
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Eric Kuhnke <mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:10 AM
>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, can't do either of those...  Burying it to Canadian electrical
>>>> code compliant depth through 700 meters (2296 ft) of forest, fallen
>>>> trees and rocks isn't going to happen. There is the slight
>>>> possibility of electrical inspection based on where the power would
>>>> be coming from.
>>>>
>>>> Using a 110/240VAC input active PFC 200W power supply that can
>>>> output 54.5VDC and a DC-DC converter on the load end to bring things
>>>> back to normal 46-48VDC will work.
>>>>
>>>> AC to DC meanwell RSP-200-48, $41
>>>> DC-DC meanwell SD-200C-48 $71
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Or you could buck it to 480VAC or more...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> bp
>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>
>>>> On 7/6/2016 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Eric Kuhnke]

Now to figure out how to economically do 2250+ ft (about 700m) of somewhat
flexible duct through a forest...



On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:03 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> always do a duct, always. A cable of any type is always nice, but a really
> long hole is always better. When I become rich man and can put stuff in
> dirt it will always be a path for something else. Expensive containers and
> cheap removable innards, like those washable condoms of yore.
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:24 PM, Trey Scarborough <t...@3dsc.co> wrote:
>
>> what are you planning on using for the fiber? just laying it on the
>> ground as well. I would use liquid tight and pull through some solid 18awg
>> that would last the longest or some inch and a quarter duct and pull both
>> through.
>>
>> On 7/6/2016 1:38 PM, Jeremy wrote:
>>
>>> Not sure what kind of rodents you have there, but I definitely recommend
>>> conduit and buried.  I have seen conduit not buried through the woods
>>> and it gets squished and broken (if it is PVC) by Moose, deer, etc.  I
>>> have seen direct burial not in conduit eaten by Gophers or Voles or some
>>> crap.  Those kind of jobs are usually the type that you don't want to do
>>> twice.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Use isolation transformers.  And call it a speaker wire.  You are
>>> sending a loud 60 cycle tone.
>>>
>>> *From:* Eric Kuhnke <mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:10 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor
>>>
>>> Yeah, can't do either of those...  Burying it to Canadian electrical
>>> code compliant depth through 700 meters (2296 ft) of forest, fallen
>>> trees and rocks isn't going to happen. There is the slight
>>> possibility of electrical inspection based on where the power would
>>> be coming from.
>>>
>>> Using a 110/240VAC input active PFC 200W power supply that can
>>> output 54.5VDC and a DC-DC converter on the load end to bring things
>>> back to normal 46-48VDC will work.
>>>
>>> AC to DC meanwell RSP-200-48, $41
>>> DC-DC meanwell SD-200C-48 $71
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Or you could buck it to 480VAC or more...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>
>>> On 7/6/2016 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>
>>>> 240 AC over direct burial romex.  All the power you might want.
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Eric Kuhnke <mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 10:29 AM
>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor
>>>>
>>>> It's looking like $0.25/ft for the cable and the singlemode
>>>> fiber is less...  Also the area is totally filled with trees,
>>>> trees cannot be cut for various reasons, it's the side of a
>>>> bluff on a hilltop. Branches and a few things in one
>>>> particular direction (about 10 degrees of azimuth) would be
>>>> cut to put in the PTP link. North of 49 latitude.
>>>>
>>>> With DC power over 14AWG it could be enough power for up to
>>>> 75W of radios on the far end. Off grid solar to do this would
>>>> be $4000 of panels batteries enclosure, charge controller.
>>>>
>>>> Very challenging site for solar, if you were to camp there you
>>>> might see 2-3 hours of direct sunlight per day max due to tree
>>>> shading.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Bill Prince
>>>> <part15...@gmail.com <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> For that amount of cable, at 50 cents a foot, I would
>>>> probably do a small solar setup. What is the latitude?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

always do a duct, always. A cable of any type is always nice, but a really
long hole is always better. When I become rich man and can put stuff in
dirt it will always be a path for something else. Expensive containers and
cheap removable innards, like those washable condoms of yore.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:24 PM, Trey Scarborough <t...@3dsc.co> wrote:

> what are you planning on using for the fiber? just laying it on the ground
> as well. I would use liquid tight and pull through some solid 18awg that
> would last the longest or some inch and a quarter duct and pull both
> through.
>
> On 7/6/2016 1:38 PM, Jeremy wrote:
>
>> Not sure what kind of rodents you have there, but I definitely recommend
>> conduit and buried.  I have seen conduit not buried through the woods
>> and it gets squished and broken (if it is PVC) by Moose, deer, etc.  I
>> have seen direct burial not in conduit eaten by Gophers or Voles or some
>> crap.  Those kind of jobs are usually the type that you don't want to do
>> twice.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com
>> <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Use isolation transformers.  And call it a speaker wire.  You are
>> sending a loud 60 cycle tone.
>>
>> *From:* Eric Kuhnke <mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
>>     *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:10 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor
>>
>> Yeah, can't do either of those...  Burying it to Canadian electrical
>> code compliant depth through 700 meters (2296 ft) of forest, fallen
>> trees and rocks isn't going to happen. There is the slight
>> possibility of electrical inspection based on where the power would
>> be coming from.
>>
>> Using a 110/240VAC input active PFC 200W power supply that can
>> output 54.5VDC and a DC-DC converter on the load end to bring things
>> back to normal 46-48VDC will work.
>>
>> AC to DC meanwell RSP-200-48, $41
>> DC-DC meanwell SD-200C-48 $71
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com
>> <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Or you could buck it to 480VAC or more...
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>
>>     On 7/6/2016 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>>> 240 AC over direct burial romex.  All the power you might want.
>>>
>>> *From:* Eric Kuhnke <mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 10:29 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor
>>>
>>> It's looking like $0.25/ft for the cable and the singlemode
>>> fiber is less...  Also the area is totally filled with trees,
>>> trees cannot be cut for various reasons, it's the side of a
>>> bluff on a hilltop. Branches and a few things in one
>>> particular direction (about 10 degrees of azimuth) would be
>>> cut to put in the PTP link. North of 49 latitude.
>>>
>>> With DC power over 14AWG it could be enough power for up to
>>> 75W of radios on the far end. Off grid solar to do this would
>>> be $4000 of panels batteries enclosure, charge controller.
>>>
>>> Very challenging site for solar, if you were to camp there you
>>> might see 2-3 hours of direct sunlight per day max due to tree
>>> shading.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Bill Prince
>>> <part15...@gmail.com <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> For that amount of cable, at 50 cents a foot, I would
>>> probably do a small solar setup. What is the latitude?
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/5/2016 4:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>>>
>>> Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network
>>> link where a PTP radio will go on the side of a tree
>>> on the opposite side of a mountain from where AC
>>> power, a router and other network equipment is located.
>>>
>>> We're looking at 600 to 700 me

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Trey Scarborough]

what are you planning on using for the fiber? just laying it on the 
ground as well. I would use liquid tight and pull through some solid 
18awg that would last the longest or some inch and a quarter duct and 
pull both through.


On 7/6/2016 1:38 PM, Jeremy wrote:

Not sure what kind of rodents you have there, but I definitely recommend
conduit and buried.  I have seen conduit not buried through the woods
and it gets squished and broken (if it is PVC) by Moose, deer, etc.  I
have seen direct burial not in conduit eaten by Gophers or Voles or some
crap.  Those kind of jobs are usually the type that you don't want to do
twice.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

Use isolation transformers.  And call it a speaker wire.  You are
sending a loud 60 cycle tone.

*From:* Eric Kuhnke <mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:10 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

Yeah, can't do either of those...  Burying it to Canadian electrical
code compliant depth through 700 meters (2296 ft) of forest, fallen
trees and rocks isn't going to happen. There is the slight
possibility of electrical inspection based on where the power would
be coming from.

Using a 110/240VAC input active PFC 200W power supply that can
output 54.5VDC and a DC-DC converter on the load end to bring things
back to normal 46-48VDC will work.

AC to DC meanwell RSP-200-48, $41
DC-DC meanwell SD-200C-48 $71



On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com
<mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Or you could buck it to 480VAC or more...



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 7/6/2016 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

240 AC over direct burial romex.  All the power you might want.

*From:* Eric Kuhnke <mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 10:29 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

It's looking like $0.25/ft for the cable and the singlemode
fiber is less...  Also the area is totally filled with trees,
trees cannot be cut for various reasons, it's the side of a
bluff on a hilltop. Branches and a few things in one
particular direction (about 10 degrees of azimuth) would be
cut to put in the PTP link. North of 49 latitude.

With DC power over 14AWG it could be enough power for up to
75W of radios on the far end. Off grid solar to do this would
be $4000 of panels batteries enclosure, charge controller.

Very challenging site for solar, if you were to camp there you
might see 2-3 hours of direct sunlight per day max due to tree
shading.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Bill Prince
<part15...@gmail.com <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

For that amount of cable, at 50 cents a foot, I would
probably do a small solar setup. What is the latitude?


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>


On 7/5/2016 4:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network
link where a PTP radio will go on the side of a tree
on the opposite side of a mountain from where AC
power, a router and other network equipment is located.

We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber
and a small NEMA4X junction box with the radio on the
far side of the hill, containing a SC-SC patch cable
bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.

It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and
voltage drop calculations for 18-2 cable that we can
get away with a 56VDC power supply at the power
source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the
receiving end, which will be fed into a DC-DC
converter to bring the output back up to 52.5VDC for
the radio.

If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors
through a forest, how would you do it? SJOOW type
cable may not hold up over a long enough time. Ideally
something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can be
much less flexible if needed). Cost is somewhat of a
factor.

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Jeremy]

Not sure what kind of rodents you have there, but I definitely recommend
conduit and buried.  I have seen conduit not buried through the woods and
it gets squished and broken (if it is PVC) by Moose, deer, etc.  I have
seen direct burial not in conduit eaten by Gophers or Voles or some crap.
Those kind of jobs are usually the type that you don't want to do twice.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> Use isolation transformers.  And call it a speaker wire.  You are sending
> a loud 60 cycle tone.
>
> *From:* Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:10 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor
>
> Yeah, can't do either of those...  Burying it to Canadian electrical code
> compliant depth through 700 meters (2296 ft) of forest, fallen trees and
> rocks isn't going to happen. There is the slight possibility of electrical
> inspection based on where the power would be coming from.
>
> Using a 110/240VAC input active PFC 200W power supply that can output
> 54.5VDC and a DC-DC converter on the load end to bring things back to
> normal 46-48VDC will work.
>
> AC to DC meanwell RSP-200-48, $41
> DC-DC meanwell SD-200C-48 $71
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Or you could buck it to 480VAC or more...
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>
>>
>> On 7/6/2016 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> 240 AC over direct burial romex.  All the power you might want.
>>
>> *From:* Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 10:29 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor
>>
>> It's looking like $0.25/ft for the cable and the singlemode fiber is
>> less...  Also the area is totally filled with trees, trees cannot be cut
>> for various reasons, it's the side of a bluff on a hilltop. Branches and a
>> few things in one particular direction (about 10 degrees of azimuth) would
>> be cut to put in the PTP link. North of 49 latitude.
>>
>> With DC power over 14AWG it could be enough power for up to 75W of radios
>> on the far end. Off grid solar to do this would be $4000 of panels
>> batteries enclosure, charge controller.
>>
>> Very challenging site for solar, if you were to camp there you might see
>> 2-3 hours of direct sunlight per day max due to tree shading.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> For that amount of cable, at 50 cents a foot, I would probably do a
>>> small solar setup. What is the latitude?
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/5/2016 4:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>>>
>>>> Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network link where a PTP
>>>> radio will go on the side of a tree on the opposite side of a mountain from
>>>> where AC power, a router and other network equipment is located.
>>>>
>>>> We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber and a small
>>>> NEMA4X junction box with the radio on the far side of the hill, containing
>>>> a SC-SC patch cable bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.
>>>>
>>>> It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and voltage drop
>>>> calculations for 18-2 cable that we can get away with a 56VDC power supply
>>>> at the power source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the receiving end,
>>>> which will be fed into a DC-DC converter to bring the output back up to
>>>> 52.5VDC for the radio.
>>>>
>>>> If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors through a forest,
>>>> how would you do it? SJOOW type cable may not hold up over a long enough
>>>> time. Ideally something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can be much
>>>> less flexible if needed). Cost is somewhat of a factor.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Chuck McCown]

Use isolation transformers.  And call it a speaker wire.  You are sending a 
loud 60 cycle tone.  

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

Yeah, can't do either of those...  Burying it to Canadian electrical code 
compliant depth through 700 meters (2296 ft) of forest, fallen trees and rocks 
isn't going to happen. There is the slight possibility of electrical inspection 
based on where the power would be coming from. 

Using a 110/240VAC input active PFC 200W power supply that can output 54.5VDC 
and a DC-DC converter on the load end to bring things back to normal 46-48VDC 
will work.  


AC to DC meanwell RSP-200-48, $41

DC-DC meanwell SD-200C-48 $71




On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:

  Or you could buck it to 480VAC or more...



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 7/6/2016 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

240 AC over direct burial romex.  All the power you might want.  

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 10:29 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

It's looking like $0.25/ft for the cable and the singlemode fiber is 
less...  Also the area is totally filled with trees, trees cannot be cut for 
various reasons, it's the side of a bluff on a hilltop. Branches and a few 
things in one particular direction (about 10 degrees of azimuth) would be cut 
to put in the PTP link. North of 49 latitude. 

With DC power over 14AWG it could be enough power for up to 75W of radios 
on the far end. Off grid solar to do this would be $4000 of panels batteries 
enclosure, charge controller. 


Very challenging site for solar, if you were to camp there you might see 
2-3 hours of direct sunlight per day max due to tree shading.


On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:

  For that amount of cable, at 50 cents a foot, I would probably do a small 
solar setup. What is the latitude?


  bp
  <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> 


  On 7/5/2016 4:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network link where a PTP 
radio will go on the side of a tree on the opposite side of a mountain from 
where AC power, a router and other network equipment is located.

We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber and a small 
NEMA4X junction box with the radio on the far side of the hill, containing a 
SC-SC patch cable bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.

It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and voltage drop 
calculations for 18-2 cable that we can get away with a 56VDC power supply at 
the power source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the receiving end, which 
will be fed into a DC-DC converter to bring the output back up to 52.5VDC for 
the radio.

If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors through a forest, 
how would you do it? SJOOW type cable may not hold up over a long enough time. 
Ideally something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can be much less flexible 
if needed). Cost is somewhat of a factor.

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Eric Kuhnke]

Yeah, can't do either of those...  Burying it to Canadian electrical code
compliant depth through 700 meters (2296 ft) of forest, fallen trees and
rocks isn't going to happen. There is the slight possibility of electrical
inspection based on where the power would be coming from.

Using a 110/240VAC input active PFC 200W power supply that can output
54.5VDC and a DC-DC converter on the load end to bring things back to
normal 46-48VDC will work.

AC to DC meanwell RSP-200-48, $41
DC-DC meanwell SD-200C-48 $71



On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Or you could buck it to 480VAC or more...
>
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
>
> On 7/6/2016 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> 240 AC over direct burial romex.  All the power you might want.
>
> *From:* Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 10:29 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor
>
> It's looking like $0.25/ft for the cable and the singlemode fiber is
> less...  Also the area is totally filled with trees, trees cannot be cut
> for various reasons, it's the side of a bluff on a hilltop. Branches and a
> few things in one particular direction (about 10 degrees of azimuth) would
> be cut to put in the PTP link. North of 49 latitude.
>
> With DC power over 14AWG it could be enough power for up to 75W of radios
> on the far end. Off grid solar to do this would be $4000 of panels
> batteries enclosure, charge controller.
>
> Very challenging site for solar, if you were to camp there you might see
> 2-3 hours of direct sunlight per day max due to tree shading.
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> For that amount of cable, at 50 cents a foot, I would probably do a small
>> solar setup. What is the latitude?
>>
>>
>> bp
>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>
>>
>> On 7/5/2016 4:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>>
>>> Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network link where a PTP
>>> radio will go on the side of a tree on the opposite side of a mountain from
>>> where AC power, a router and other network equipment is located.
>>>
>>> We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber and a small
>>> NEMA4X junction box with the radio on the far side of the hill, containing
>>> a SC-SC patch cable bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.
>>>
>>> It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and voltage drop
>>> calculations for 18-2 cable that we can get away with a 56VDC power supply
>>> at the power source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the receiving end,
>>> which will be fed into a DC-DC converter to bring the output back up to
>>> 52.5VDC for the radio.
>>>
>>> If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors through a forest, how
>>> would you do it? SJOOW type cable may not hold up over a long enough time.
>>> Ideally something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can be much less
>>> flexible if needed). Cost is somewhat of a factor.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Bill Prince]

Or you could buck it to 480VAC or more...


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 7/6/2016 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

240 AC over direct burial romex.  All the power you might want.
*From:* Eric Kuhnke <mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2016 10:29 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor
It's looking like $0.25/ft for the cable and the singlemode fiber is 
less...  Also the area is totally filled with trees, trees cannot be 
cut for various reasons, it's the side of a bluff on a hilltop. 
Branches and a few things in one particular direction (about 10 
degrees of azimuth) would be cut to put in the PTP link. North of 49 
latitude.


With DC power over 14AWG it could be enough power for up to 75W of 
radios on the far end. Off grid solar to do this would be $4000 of 
panels batteries enclosure, charge controller.


Very challenging site for solar, if you were to camp there you might 
see 2-3 hours of direct sunlight per day max due to tree shading.
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com 
<mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:


For that amount of cable, at 50 cents a foot, I would probably do
a small solar setup. What is the latitude?


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>


On 7/5/2016 4:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network link
where a PTP radio will go on the side of a tree on the
opposite side of a mountain from where AC power, a router and
other network equipment is located.

We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber and a
small NEMA4X junction box with the radio on the far side of
the hill, containing a SC-SC patch cable bulkhead and a
meanwell DC-DC converter.

It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and voltage
drop calculations for 18-2 cable that we can get away with a
56VDC power supply at the power source, dropping to not lower
than 35VDC at the receiving end, which will be fed into a
DC-DC converter to bring the output back up to 52.5VDC for the
radio.

If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors through a
forest, how would you do it? SJOOW type cable may not hold up
over a long enough time. Ideally something that is more
armored than SJOOW (it can be much less flexible if needed).
Cost is somewhat of a factor.

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Chuck McCown]

240 AC over direct burial romex.  All the power you might want.  

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 10:29 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

It's looking like $0.25/ft for the cable and the singlemode fiber is less...  
Also the area is totally filled with trees, trees cannot be cut for various 
reasons, it's the side of a bluff on a hilltop. Branches and a few things in 
one particular direction (about 10 degrees of azimuth) would be cut to put in 
the PTP link. North of 49 latitude. 

With DC power over 14AWG it could be enough power for up to 75W of radios on 
the far end. Off grid solar to do this would be $4000 of panels batteries 
enclosure, charge controller. 


Very challenging site for solar, if you were to camp there you might see 2-3 
hours of direct sunlight per day max due to tree shading.


On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:

  For that amount of cable, at 50 cents a foot, I would probably do a small 
solar setup. What is the latitude?


  bp
  <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> 


  On 7/5/2016 4:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network link where a PTP radio 
will go on the side of a tree on the opposite side of a mountain from where AC 
power, a router and other network equipment is located.

We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber and a small NEMA4X 
junction box with the radio on the far side of the hill, containing a SC-SC 
patch cable bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.

It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and voltage drop 
calculations for 18-2 cable that we can get away with a 56VDC power supply at 
the power source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the receiving end, which 
will be fed into a DC-DC converter to bring the output back up to 52.5VDC for 
the radio.

If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors through a forest, how 
would you do it? SJOOW type cable may not hold up over a long enough time. 
Ideally something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can be much less flexible 
if needed). Cost is somewhat of a factor.

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Eric Kuhnke]

It's looking like $0.25/ft for the cable and the singlemode fiber is
less...  Also the area is totally filled with trees, trees cannot be cut
for various reasons, it's the side of a bluff on a hilltop. Branches and a
few things in one particular direction (about 10 degrees of azimuth) would
be cut to put in the PTP link. North of 49 latitude.

With DC power over 14AWG it could be enough power for up to 75W of radios
on the far end. Off grid solar to do this would be $4000 of panels
batteries enclosure, charge controller.

Very challenging site for solar, if you were to camp there you might see
2-3 hours of direct sunlight per day max due to tree shading.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

> For that amount of cable, at 50 cents a foot, I would probably do a small
> solar setup. What is the latitude?
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 7/5/2016 4:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>
>> Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network link where a PTP
>> radio will go on the side of a tree on the opposite side of a mountain from
>> where AC power, a router and other network equipment is located.
>>
>> We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber and a small NEMA4X
>> junction box with the radio on the far side of the hill, containing a SC-SC
>> patch cable bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.
>>
>> It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and voltage drop
>> calculations for 18-2 cable that we can get away with a 56VDC power supply
>> at the power source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the receiving end,
>> which will be fed into a DC-DC converter to bring the output back up to
>> 52.5VDC for the radio.
>>
>> If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors through a forest, how
>> would you do it? SJOOW type cable may not hold up over a long enough time.
>> Ideally something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can be much less
>> flexible if needed). Cost is somewhat of a factor.
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Chuck McCown]

I have run lotsa direct burial romex over the ground to do things like this.  

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 9:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

That's more in $/ft than 14-2 UF-NMC cable, which I am seeing at $0.25/ft from 
the local Platt electric before any discounts are applied...




On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 8:53 PM, Jason Wilson <ja...@remotelylocated.com> wrote:

  I also would go the conduit route BUT if you were to go with your 
original plan I would use landscape wire 
http://www.lowes.com/pd/100-ft-16-Gauge-2-Conductor-Landscape-Lighting-Cable/21006




  Jason Wilson
  Remotely Located
  Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
  530-651-1736
  530-748-9608 Cell
  www.remotelylocated.com

  On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 6:29 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:

I would recommend conduit at least. We have trouble with exposed cat5 
getting chewed on by critters when we lay it through the woods. It'd be a bit 
of labor to pull it through but much more protection. You could do flat drop 
fiber and save enough cost over armored to pay for the conduit. 

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 9:17 PM, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> wrote:

  It does need to stay "low voltage" because there is no 
practical/economical way to get an electrical permit to run 600-700 meters of 
code-compliant 240VAC through this particular section of forest. 


  Interestingly, looking at $/ft prices for cable I have found that 
3-conductor 14 gauge UF-NMC (2 + bare copper ground) is less costly per foot 
than 18 gauge SJOOW. That sort of helps on the voltage drop problem. It's 
intended for direct burial but in this case would go through a forest taped to 
an armored fiber cable. In a few years falling leaves and such will cover it. 


  On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:

I would also run 240V AC out there, not DC. Unless you are needing to 
stay "low voltage" for permit/licensing reasons. 

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> 
wrote:

  I would use 14-2 UF cable, direct buried next to the fiber, or pulled 
into conduit with the fiber if you are doing conduit. That's going to be much 
cheaper than SOOW type rubber jacket cable, or pretty much any other options. 
1000ft spool costs us about $250, and there are direct bury splice kits for it 
to make a waterproof buried splice. 

  On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 7:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network link where a 
PTP radio will go on the side of a tree on the opposite side of a mountain from 
where AC power, a router and other network equipment is located.


We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber and a small 
NEMA4X junction box with the radio on the far side of the hill, containing a 
SC-SC patch cable bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.


It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and voltage drop 
calculations for 18-2 cable that we can get away with a 56VDC power supply at 
the power source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the receiving end, which 
will be fed into a DC-DC converter to bring the output back up to 52.5VDC for 
the radio.


If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors through a 
forest, how would you do it? SJOOW type cable may not hold up over a long 
enough time. Ideally something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can be much 
less flexible if needed). Cost is somewhat of a factor.

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Bill Prince]

For that amount of cable, at 50 cents a foot, I would probably do a 
small solar setup. What is the latitude?



bp


On 7/5/2016 4:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network link where a PTP 
radio will go on the side of a tree on the opposite side of a mountain 
from where AC power, a router and other network equipment is located.


We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber and a small 
NEMA4X junction box with the radio on the far side of the hill, 
containing a SC-SC patch cable bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.


It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and voltage drop 
calculations for 18-2 cable that we can get away with a 56VDC power 
supply at the power source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the 
receiving end, which will be fed into a DC-DC converter to bring the 
output back up to 52.5VDC for the radio.


If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors through a forest, 
how would you do it? SJOOW type cable may not hold up over a long 
enough time. Ideally something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can 
be much less flexible if needed). Cost is somewhat of a factor.

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Eric Kuhnke]

That's more in $/ft than 14-2 UF-NMC cable, which I am seeing at $0.25/ft
from the local Platt electric before any discounts are applied...



On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 8:53 PM, Jason Wilson 
wrote:

> I also would go the conduit route BUT if you were to go with your
> original plan I would use landscape wire
> http://www.lowes.com/pd/100-ft-16-Gauge-2-Conductor-Landscape-Lighting-Cable/21006
>
>
>
> Jason Wilson
> Remotely Located
> Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
> 530-651-1736
> 530-748-9608 Cell
> www.remotelylocated.com
>
> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 6:29 PM, Chris Fabien  wrote:
>
>> I would recommend conduit at least. We have trouble with exposed cat5
>> getting chewed on by critters when we lay it through the woods. It'd be a
>> bit of labor to pull it through but much more protection. You could do flat
>> drop fiber and save enough cost over armored to pay for the conduit.
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 9:17 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It does need to stay "low voltage" because there is no
>>> practical/economical way to get an electrical permit to run 600-700 meters
>>> of code-compliant 240VAC through this particular section of forest.
>>>
>>> Interestingly, looking at $/ft prices for cable I have found that
>>> 3-conductor 14 gauge UF-NMC (2 + bare copper ground) is less costly per
>>> foot than 18 gauge SJOOW. That sort of helps on the voltage drop problem.
>>> It's intended for direct burial but in this case would go through a forest
>>> taped to an armored fiber cable. In a few years falling leaves and such
>>> will cover it.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Chris Fabien 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I would also run 240V AC out there, not DC. Unless you are needing to
 stay "low voltage" for permit/licensing reasons.

 On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Chris Fabien 
 wrote:

> I would use 14-2 UF cable, direct buried next to the fiber, or pulled
> into conduit with the fiber if you are doing conduit. That's going to be
> much cheaper than SOOW type rubber jacket cable, or pretty much any other
> options. 1000ft spool costs us about $250, and there are direct bury 
> splice
> kits for it to make a waterproof buried splice.
>
> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 7:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
> wrote:
>
>> Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network link where a PTP
>> radio will go on the side of a tree on the opposite side of a mountain 
>> from
>> where AC power, a router and other network equipment is located.
>>
>> We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber and a small
>> NEMA4X junction box with the radio on the far side of the hill, 
>> containing
>> a SC-SC patch cable bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.
>>
>> It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and voltage drop
>> calculations for 18-2 cable that we can get away with a 56VDC power 
>> supply
>> at the power source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the receiving 
>> end,
>> which will be fed into a DC-DC converter to bring the output back up to
>> 52.5VDC for the radio.
>>
>> If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors through a forest,
>> how would you do it? SJOOW type cable may not hold up over a long enough
>> time. Ideally something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can be much
>> less flexible if needed). Cost is somewhat of a factor.
>>
>>
>>
>

>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Chuck McCown]

Who needs a permit.  Just one long extension cord.  

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 7:17 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

It does need to stay "low voltage" because there is no practical/economical way 
to get an electrical permit to run 600-700 meters of code-compliant 240VAC 
through this particular section of forest. 


Interestingly, looking at $/ft prices for cable I have found that 3-conductor 
14 gauge UF-NMC (2 + bare copper ground) is less costly per foot than 18 gauge 
SJOOW. That sort of helps on the voltage drop problem. It's intended for direct 
burial but in this case would go through a forest taped to an armored fiber 
cable. In a few years falling leaves and such will cover it. 


On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:

  I would also run 240V AC out there, not DC. Unless you are needing to stay 
"low voltage" for permit/licensing reasons. 

  On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:

I would use 14-2 UF cable, direct buried next to the fiber, or pulled into 
conduit with the fiber if you are doing conduit. That's going to be much 
cheaper than SOOW type rubber jacket cable, or pretty much any other options. 
1000ft spool costs us about $250, and there are direct bury splice kits for it 
to make a waterproof buried splice. 

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 7:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> wrote:

  Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network link where a PTP 
radio will go on the side of a tree on the opposite side of a mountain from 
where AC power, a router and other network equipment is located.


  We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber and a small NEMA4X 
junction box with the radio on the far side of the hill, containing a SC-SC 
patch cable bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.


  It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and voltage drop 
calculations for 18-2 cable that we can get away with a 56VDC power supply at 
the power source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the receiving end, which 
will be fed into a DC-DC converter to bring the output back up to 52.5VDC for 
the radio.


  If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors through a forest, how 
would you do it? SJOOW type cable may not hold up over a long enough time. 
Ideally something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can be much less flexible 
if needed). Cost is somewhat of a factor.

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Jason Wilson]

I also would go the conduit route BUT if you were to go with your
original plan I would use landscape wire
http://www.lowes.com/pd/100-ft-16-Gauge-2-Conductor-Landscape-Lighting-Cable/21006



Jason Wilson
Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736
530-748-9608 Cell
www.remotelylocated.com

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 6:29 PM, Chris Fabien  wrote:

> I would recommend conduit at least. We have trouble with exposed cat5
> getting chewed on by critters when we lay it through the woods. It'd be a
> bit of labor to pull it through but much more protection. You could do flat
> drop fiber and save enough cost over armored to pay for the conduit.
>
> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 9:17 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
>
>> It does need to stay "low voltage" because there is no
>> practical/economical way to get an electrical permit to run 600-700 meters
>> of code-compliant 240VAC through this particular section of forest.
>>
>> Interestingly, looking at $/ft prices for cable I have found that
>> 3-conductor 14 gauge UF-NMC (2 + bare copper ground) is less costly per
>> foot than 18 gauge SJOOW. That sort of helps on the voltage drop problem.
>> It's intended for direct burial but in this case would go through a forest
>> taped to an armored fiber cable. In a few years falling leaves and such
>> will cover it.
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Chris Fabien  wrote:
>>
>>> I would also run 240V AC out there, not DC. Unless you are needing to
>>> stay "low voltage" for permit/licensing reasons.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Chris Fabien 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I would use 14-2 UF cable, direct buried next to the fiber, or pulled
 into conduit with the fiber if you are doing conduit. That's going to be
 much cheaper than SOOW type rubber jacket cable, or pretty much any other
 options. 1000ft spool costs us about $250, and there are direct bury splice
 kits for it to make a waterproof buried splice.

 On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 7:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
 wrote:

> Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network link where a PTP
> radio will go on the side of a tree on the opposite side of a mountain 
> from
> where AC power, a router and other network equipment is located.
>
> We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber and a small
> NEMA4X junction box with the radio on the far side of the hill, containing
> a SC-SC patch cable bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.
>
> It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and voltage drop
> calculations for 18-2 cable that we can get away with a 56VDC power supply
> at the power source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the receiving 
> end,
> which will be fed into a DC-DC converter to bring the output back up to
> 52.5VDC for the radio.
>
> If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors through a forest,
> how would you do it? SJOOW type cable may not hold up over a long enough
> time. Ideally something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can be much
> less flexible if needed). Cost is somewhat of a factor.
>
>
>

>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Chris Fabien]

I would recommend conduit at least. We have trouble with exposed cat5
getting chewed on by critters when we lay it through the woods. It'd be a
bit of labor to pull it through but much more protection. You could do flat
drop fiber and save enough cost over armored to pay for the conduit.

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 9:17 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> It does need to stay "low voltage" because there is no
> practical/economical way to get an electrical permit to run 600-700 meters
> of code-compliant 240VAC through this particular section of forest.
>
> Interestingly, looking at $/ft prices for cable I have found that
> 3-conductor 14 gauge UF-NMC (2 + bare copper ground) is less costly per
> foot than 18 gauge SJOOW. That sort of helps on the voltage drop problem.
> It's intended for direct burial but in this case would go through a forest
> taped to an armored fiber cable. In a few years falling leaves and such
> will cover it.
>
> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Chris Fabien  wrote:
>
>> I would also run 240V AC out there, not DC. Unless you are needing to
>> stay "low voltage" for permit/licensing reasons.
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Chris Fabien  wrote:
>>
>>> I would use 14-2 UF cable, direct buried next to the fiber, or pulled
>>> into conduit with the fiber if you are doing conduit. That's going to be
>>> much cheaper than SOOW type rubber jacket cable, or pretty much any other
>>> options. 1000ft spool costs us about $250, and there are direct bury splice
>>> kits for it to make a waterproof buried splice.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 7:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network link where a PTP
 radio will go on the side of a tree on the opposite side of a mountain from
 where AC power, a router and other network equipment is located.

 We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber and a small
 NEMA4X junction box with the radio on the far side of the hill, containing
 a SC-SC patch cable bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.

 It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and voltage drop
 calculations for 18-2 cable that we can get away with a 56VDC power supply
 at the power source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the receiving end,
 which will be fed into a DC-DC converter to bring the output back up to
 52.5VDC for the radio.

 If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors through a forest,
 how would you do it? SJOOW type cable may not hold up over a long enough
 time. Ideally something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can be much
 less flexible if needed). Cost is somewhat of a factor.



>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Eric Kuhnke]

It does need to stay "low voltage" because there is no practical/economical
way to get an electrical permit to run 600-700 meters of code-compliant
240VAC through this particular section of forest.

Interestingly, looking at $/ft prices for cable I have found that
3-conductor 14 gauge UF-NMC (2 + bare copper ground) is less costly per
foot than 18 gauge SJOOW. That sort of helps on the voltage drop problem.
It's intended for direct burial but in this case would go through a forest
taped to an armored fiber cable. In a few years falling leaves and such
will cover it.

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Chris Fabien  wrote:

> I would also run 240V AC out there, not DC. Unless you are needing to stay
> "low voltage" for permit/licensing reasons.
>
> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Chris Fabien  wrote:
>
>> I would use 14-2 UF cable, direct buried next to the fiber, or pulled
>> into conduit with the fiber if you are doing conduit. That's going to be
>> much cheaper than SOOW type rubber jacket cable, or pretty much any other
>> options. 1000ft spool costs us about $250, and there are direct bury splice
>> kits for it to make a waterproof buried splice.
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 7:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network link where a PTP
>>> radio will go on the side of a tree on the opposite side of a mountain from
>>> where AC power, a router and other network equipment is located.
>>>
>>> We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber and a small
>>> NEMA4X junction box with the radio on the far side of the hill, containing
>>> a SC-SC patch cable bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.
>>>
>>> It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and voltage drop
>>> calculations for 18-2 cable that we can get away with a 56VDC power supply
>>> at the power source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the receiving end,
>>> which will be fed into a DC-DC converter to bring the output back up to
>>> 52.5VDC for the radio.
>>>
>>> If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors through a forest, how
>>> would you do it? SJOOW type cable may not hold up over a long enough time.
>>> Ideally something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can be much less
>>> flexible if needed). Cost is somewhat of a factor.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Chris Fabien]

I would also run 240V AC out there, not DC. Unless you are needing to stay
"low voltage" for permit/licensing reasons.

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Chris Fabien  wrote:

> I would use 14-2 UF cable, direct buried next to the fiber, or pulled into
> conduit with the fiber if you are doing conduit. That's going to be much
> cheaper than SOOW type rubber jacket cable, or pretty much any other
> options. 1000ft spool costs us about $250, and there are direct bury splice
> kits for it to make a waterproof buried splice.
>
> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 7:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
>
>> Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network link where a PTP
>> radio will go on the side of a tree on the opposite side of a mountain from
>> where AC power, a router and other network equipment is located.
>>
>> We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber and a small NEMA4X
>> junction box with the radio on the far side of the hill, containing a SC-SC
>> patch cable bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.
>>
>> It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and voltage drop
>> calculations for 18-2 cable that we can get away with a 56VDC power supply
>> at the power source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the receiving end,
>> which will be fed into a DC-DC converter to bring the output back up to
>> 52.5VDC for the radio.
>>
>> If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors through a forest, how
>> would you do it? SJOOW type cable may not hold up over a long enough time.
>> Ideally something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can be much less
>> flexible if needed). Cost is somewhat of a factor.
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Practical/low-cost 18AWG copper outdoor

[Chris Fabien]

I would use 14-2 UF cable, direct buried next to the fiber, or pulled into
conduit with the fiber if you are doing conduit. That's going to be much
cheaper than SOOW type rubber jacket cable, or pretty much any other
options. 1000ft spool costs us about $250, and there are direct bury splice
kits for it to make a waterproof buried splice.

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 7:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> Due to terrain I'm helping somebody design a network link where a PTP
> radio will go on the side of a tree on the opposite side of a mountain from
> where AC power, a router and other network equipment is located.
>
> We're looking at 600 to 700 meters of singlemode fiber and a small NEMA4X
> junction box with the radio on the far side of the hill, containing a SC-SC
> patch cable bulkhead and a meanwell DC-DC converter.
>
> It looks like based on the wattage of the radio and voltage drop
> calculations for 18-2 cable that we can get away with a 56VDC power supply
> at the power source, dropping to not lower than 35VDC at the receiving end,
> which will be fed into a DC-DC converter to bring the output back up to
> 52.5VDC for the radio.
>
> If you had to run 600-700m of 18AWG cable outdoors through a forest, how
> would you do it? SJOOW type cable may not hold up over a long enough time.
> Ideally something that is more armored than SJOOW (it can be much less
> flexible if needed). Cost is somewhat of a factor.
>
>
>