[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
That’s why I set up the company behind AndAppStore. DMCA notices are irrelevant to apps on AndAppStore because the company and it's assets are solely located outside the USA to ensure the USAs ridiculous rules in relation to Intellectual Property do not interfere with the companies global operations. The company respects copyrights, but does not take down apps just because someone paid a lawyer a few hundred dollars to write a letter. You also forget Google is not just a US entity. It has registered companies around the world which are not bound by US laws (such as Google UK Ltd.) which could run and operate Market thus giving them the same freedoms as the rest of us outside the jurisdiction of US law. Al. --- * Written an Android App? - List it at http://andappstore.com/ * == Funky Android Limited is registered in England Wales with the company number 6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House, 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK. The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's subsidiaries. -Original Message- From: android-developers@googlegroups.com [mailto:android-develop...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ralf Sent: 13 April 2009 06:38 To: android-developers@googlegroups.com Subject: [android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market You forget that Google is a US entity and as such is bound to US laws, such as, for example, complying to US export limitations. If you don't like it, you can always create your own app store that is not bound to US laws and encourage developers to use it :-p R/ On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 5:32 AM, Al Sutton a...@funkyandroid.com wrote: I think the most tragic thing about this is the guy who brought this up is not US based and so the DMCA is irrelevant to hi as it has no juristiction. If Google wants to apply US laws to everyone around the world who wishes to list an app on market I can see a lot of problems ahead with this and other Intellectual Property related issues. Al. - Original Message - From: Semprebon sempre...@gmail.com To: Android Developers android-developers@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 1:28 PM Subject: [android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market Not strictly true. They can choose to remove the material and not be liable for copyright infringement themselves, or they can ignore the request and become liable. In reality, most will choose the first option. On Apr 11, 3:23 pm, Edward Falk ed.f...@gmail.com wrote: My understanding is: When an ISP or other provider receives a DMCA takedown notice, they have no choice but to take the offending material off line. They can't use their judgment, they just have to do it. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
I've worked for UK operations of some large US companies and for UK companies delivering to UK operations of US companies and US legal restrictions didn't enter into the equation at any point. As a specific example I have *never* worked at a company that took US patents into consideration when developing software and in some cases I think other developers may got some inspiration when hearing about patents involved in US lawsuits. The key point seems to be whether or not the UK operation is a truely separate company, or if the UK operation relies on the use of assets either located in the US or owned by a US organisation. Al. --- * Written an Android App? - List it at http://andappstore.com/ * == Funky Android Limited is registered in England Wales with the company number 6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House, 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK. The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's subsidiaries. _ From: android-developers@googlegroups.com [mailto:android-develop...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mariano Kamp Sent: 13 April 2009 11:58 To: android-developers@googlegroups.com Subject: [android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market You also forget Google is not just a US entity. It has registered companies around the world which are not bound by US laws (such as Google UK Ltd.) which could run and operate Market thus giving them the same freedoms as the rest of us outside the jurisdiction of US law. I am not sure that this true for all practical matters. I work for an American company and certify once a year that I will adhere to US export restrictions. On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Al Sutton a...@funkyandroid.com wrote: That's why I set up the company behind AndAppStore. DMCA notices are irrelevant to apps on AndAppStore because the company and it's assets are solely located outside the USA to ensure the USAs ridiculous rules in relation to Intellectual Property do not interfere with the companies global operations. The company respects copyrights, but does not take down apps just because someone paid a lawyer a few hundred dollars to write a letter. You also forget Google is not just a US entity. It has registered companies around the world which are not bound by US laws (such as Google UK Ltd.) which could run and operate Market thus giving them the same freedoms as the rest of us outside the jurisdiction of US law. Al. --- * Written an Android App? - List it at http://andappstore.com/ * == Funky Android Limited is registered in England Wales with the company number 6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House, 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK. The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's subsidiaries. -Original Message- From: android-developers@googlegroups.com [mailto:android-develop...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ralf Sent: 13 April 2009 06:38 To: android-developers@googlegroups.com Subject: [android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market You forget that Google is a US entity and as such is bound to US laws, such as, for example, complying to US export limitations. If you don't like it, you can always create your own app store that is not bound to US laws and encourage developers to use it :-p R/ On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 5:32 AM, Al Sutton a...@funkyandroid.com wrote: I think the most tragic thing about this is the guy who brought this up is not US based and so the DMCA is irrelevant to hi as it has no juristiction. If Google wants to apply US laws to everyone around the world who wishes to list an app on market I can see a lot of problems ahead with this and other Intellectual Property related issues. Al. - Original Message - From: Semprebon sempre...@gmail.com To: Android Developers android-developers@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 1:28 PM Subject: [android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market Not strictly true. They can choose to remove the material and not be liable for copyright infringement themselves, or they can ignore the request and become liable. In reality, most will choose the first option. On Apr 11, 3:23 pm, Edward Falk ed.f...@gmail.com wrote: My understanding is: When an ISP or other provider receives a DMCA takedown notice, they have no choice but to take the offending material off line. They can't use their judgment, they just have to do it. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
You also forget Google is not just a US entity. It has registered companies around the world which are not bound by US laws (such as Google UK Ltd.) which could run and operate Market thus giving them the same freedoms as the rest of us outside the jurisdiction of US law. I am not sure that this true for all practical matters. I work for an American company and certify once a year that I will adhere to US export restrictions. On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Al Sutton a...@funkyandroid.com wrote: That’s why I set up the company behind AndAppStore. DMCA notices are irrelevant to apps on AndAppStore because the company and it's assets are solely located outside the USA to ensure the USAs ridiculous rules in relation to Intellectual Property do not interfere with the companies global operations. The company respects copyrights, but does not take down apps just because someone paid a lawyer a few hundred dollars to write a letter. You also forget Google is not just a US entity. It has registered companies around the world which are not bound by US laws (such as Google UK Ltd.) which could run and operate Market thus giving them the same freedoms as the rest of us outside the jurisdiction of US law. Al. --- * Written an Android App? - List it at http://andappstore.com/ * == Funky Android Limited is registered in England Wales with the company number 6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House, 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK. The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's subsidiaries. -Original Message- From: android-developers@googlegroups.com [mailto:android-develop...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ralf Sent: 13 April 2009 06:38 To: android-developers@googlegroups.com Subject: [android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market You forget that Google is a US entity and as such is bound to US laws, such as, for example, complying to US export limitations. If you don't like it, you can always create your own app store that is not bound to US laws and encourage developers to use it :-p R/ On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 5:32 AM, Al Sutton a...@funkyandroid.com wrote: I think the most tragic thing about this is the guy who brought this up is not US based and so the DMCA is irrelevant to hi as it has no juristiction. If Google wants to apply US laws to everyone around the world who wishes to list an app on market I can see a lot of problems ahead with this and other Intellectual Property related issues. Al. - Original Message - From: Semprebon sempre...@gmail.com To: Android Developers android-developers@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 1:28 PM Subject: [android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market Not strictly true. They can choose to remove the material and not be liable for copyright infringement themselves, or they can ignore the request and become liable. In reality, most will choose the first option. On Apr 11, 3:23 pm, Edward Falk ed.f...@gmail.com wrote: My understanding is: When an ISP or other provider receives a DMCA takedown notice, they have no choice but to take the offending material off line. They can't use their judgment, they just have to do it. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
What puzzles me is that when tetris clones were pulled from apple app store, a lot of tech related sites reported the news. However, not even one android related site wrote a word about the android market application removal. They only complained about the tethering apps removal. But no word on DMCA removals. Why? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
Anyone who is surprised by this must be very, very new to the programming game. I've been waiting for this since the store opened. IMHO, to the extent that the Android community becomes a proxy for those that think All Ideas Should Be Free And Stealable, that is the extent to which Android will never be a real grown-up operating system. On Apr 7, 8:43 am, tasos.klei...@gmail.com tasos.klei...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday April 4th, I received a message from google saying that my game Robotic Space Rock was pulled from the android market after a request made by a legal firm representing an entity known as Tetris Company. My application was removed from the android market together with Blocks, Cubik, Net Tetris, Netblocks and Tetroid (6 apps in total) under claim that it violates the DMCA and more specifically trademarks and copyrighted material owned by the Tetris Company. However, none of the trademarks or copyrighted material (music, graphics and sound effects) are present in my game. Sound effects and music were created by me specifically for the game. There is no reference to the word tetris in the game. Additionally, all the game code, graphics and sound effects were created by me and published on the code sitehttp://code.google.com/p/monolithandroid Additionally, I am not aware of a software patent covering the game mechanics of Tetris, so I cannot see how I could violate something that is not protected by a software patent. Also, even if the game was protected by a patent, the patent would have expired, since the original game, Tetris, was created 23 years ago. However game mechanics cannot be covered by patents. I would also like to point out that my game is available completely free of charge to every user of the android market. I wrote those concerns to Google and I sent an email to the EFF. The bottom line is that for my application to be restored on the android market, I have to send a DMCA counter-notification. And then the Tetris Company can sue and take the case to Court. When games were pulled from the iPhone App store, they blamed apple, but it is not hard to see that behind application removals we can find companies like the Tetris Company, that demand application removals claiming copyright infringement and trademarks. However, it is not easy to battle these companies as individual developers. I, for example, am a Greek citizen living in Greece, so it is difficult for me to file a counter-notification, because then the Tetris company will probably sue me and I will have to defend my case in court. Why should I bother? Am I making money out of the game? No! But even if I did you can see how easy it is for corporations to neutralize developers like that. I think that something should be done. Independent developers should get together to battle against such misuse of the law by corporations. And to those that want more facts, you can find more details on my blog:http://tkcodesharing.blogspot.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
This is not legal advice. I actually am a lawyer, and these copyright violation claims are very shaky. Basically, they have a copyright to the exactly worded source code. So if they wrote int numTetrads = 50 and you wrote int numBlocks = 50 you would not be infringing. You need to copy, wholesale, a portion of their code in order to infringe on their copyright. Further, they have trademarks on the look and feel of colors/blocks and a trademark on the name Tetris. So technically, according to the law there is no claim. With that said, if they have a good lawyer and are in front of a retarded judge, then maybe they can go somewhere with this. They also have NO software patent claims, nor allege any. Even if they DID have a software patent, software patents are under a lot of scrutiny, and it probably would not take too much to get it invalidated. On Apr 13, 10:43 am, Sundog sunns...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone who is surprised by this must be very, very new to the programming game. I've been waiting for this since the store opened. IMHO, to the extent that the Android community becomes a proxy for those that think All Ideas Should Be Free And Stealable, that is the extent to which Android will never be a real grown-up operating system. On Apr 7, 8:43 am, tasos.klei...@gmail.com tasos.klei...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday April 4th, I received a message from google saying that my game Robotic Space Rock was pulled from the android market after a request made by a legal firm representing an entity known as Tetris Company. My application was removed from the android market together with Blocks, Cubik, Net Tetris, Netblocks and Tetroid (6 apps in total) under claim that it violates the DMCA and more specifically trademarks and copyrighted material owned by the Tetris Company. However, none of the trademarks or copyrighted material (music, graphics and sound effects) are present in my game. Sound effects and music were created by me specifically for the game. There is no reference to the word tetris in the game. Additionally, all the game code, graphics and sound effects were created by me and published on the code sitehttp://code.google.com/p/monolithandroid Additionally, I am not aware of a software patent covering the game mechanics of Tetris, so I cannot see how I could violate something that is not protected by a software patent. Also, even if the game was protected by a patent, the patent would have expired, since the original game, Tetris, was created 23 years ago. However game mechanics cannot be covered by patents. I would also like to point out that my game is available completely free of charge to every user of the android market. I wrote those concerns to Google and I sent an email to the EFF. The bottom line is that for my application to be restored on the android market, I have to send a DMCA counter-notification. And then the Tetris Company can sue and take the case to Court. When games were pulled from the iPhone App store, they blamed apple, but it is not hard to see that behind application removals we can find companies like the Tetris Company, that demand application removals claiming copyright infringement and trademarks. However, it is not easy to battle these companies as individual developers. I, for example, am a Greek citizen living in Greece, so it is difficult for me to file a counter-notification, because then the Tetris company will probably sue me and I will have to defend my case in court. Why should I bother? Am I making money out of the game? No! But even if I did you can see how easy it is for corporations to neutralize developers like that. I think that something should be done. Independent developers should get together to battle against such misuse of the law by corporations. And to those that want more facts, you can find more details on my blog:http://tkcodesharing.blogspot.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Ikon ayanafr...@gmail.com wrote: This is not legal advice. I actually am a lawyer, and these copyright violation claims are very shaky. Basically, they have a copyright to the exactly worded source code. So if they wrote int numTetrads = 50 and you wrote int numBlocks = 50 you would not be infringing. You seem to be saying that I could take someone's source code, rename all the variables, and then claim it as my own. That can't be right. Also note that with most languages the binary would be exactly the same. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
You can never patent abstract ideas. Game ideas cannot be patented OK, so we've established you're not a patent lawyer... :) My favorite patent is the one for swinging sideways on a swing, which IMO illustrates you can patent pretty much anything. On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Ikon ayanafr...@gmail.com wrote: Your contention that grown up operating systems should not allow you to copy ideas is totally unfounded. You can never patent abstracty ideas. Game ideas cannot be patented. Whether they should be is a different discussion. You can go right and now, and make a game on Windows with a story very similar to fallout, and write all your own code, and use all your own graphics/sound assets and you will not be infringing on that IP in any way. A company may come and try to sue you, but that has no relevance to a maturity of an operating system. On Apr 13, 10:43 am, Sundog sunns...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone who is surprised by this must be very, very new to the programming game. I've been waiting for this since the store opened. IMHO, to the extent that the Android community becomes a proxy for those that think All Ideas Should Be Free And Stealable, that is the extent to which Android will never be a real grown-up operating system. On Apr 7, 8:43 am, tasos.klei...@gmail.com tasos.klei...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday April 4th, I received a message from google saying that my game Robotic Space Rock was pulled from the android market after a request made by a legal firm representing an entity known as Tetris Company. My application was removed from the android market together with Blocks, Cubik, Net Tetris, Netblocks and Tetroid (6 apps in total) under claim that it violates the DMCA and more specifically trademarks and copyrighted material owned by the Tetris Company. However, none of the trademarks or copyrighted material (music, graphics and sound effects) are present in my game. Sound effects and music were created by me specifically for the game. There is no reference to the word tetris in the game. Additionally, all the game code, graphics and sound effects were created by me and published on the code sitehttp://code.google.com/p/monolithandroid Additionally, I am not aware of a software patent covering the game mechanics of Tetris, so I cannot see how I could violate something that is not protected by a software patent. Also, even if the game was protected by a patent, the patent would have expired, since the original game, Tetris, was created 23 years ago. However game mechanics cannot be covered by patents. I would also like to point out that my game is available completely free of charge to every user of the android market. I wrote those concerns to Google and I sent an email to the EFF. The bottom line is that for my application to be restored on the android market, I have to send a DMCA counter-notification. And then the Tetris Company can sue and take the case to Court. When games were pulled from the iPhone App store, they blamed apple, but it is not hard to see that behind application removals we can find companies like the Tetris Company, that demand application removals claiming copyright infringement and trademarks. However, it is not easy to battle these companies as individual developers. I, for example, am a Greek citizen living in Greece, so it is difficult for me to file a counter-notification, because then the Tetris company will probably sue me and I will have to defend my case in court. Why should I bother? Am I making money out of the game? No! But even if I did you can see how easy it is for corporations to neutralize developers like that. I think that something should be done. Independent developers should get together to battle against such misuse of the law by corporations. And to those that want more facts, you can find more details on my blog:http://tkcodesharing.blogspot.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
The variable example was just a small example. My point was that on the variable rename alone is not a copyright violation, just because it relates to the same idea. However you cannot copy someones functions and rename the functions/vars and make it your own. This is obviously a close call, and it must be made by a fact-finder. As for your example of a swing, my comment was directed towards video- games, and not physical apparatuses, which are clearly patentable. I know what is accepted as patentable or not by the USPTO, as I submit these patents on a regular basis. On Apr 13, 2:18 pm, Marco Nelissen marc...@android.com wrote: You can never patent abstract ideas. Game ideas cannot be patented OK, so we've established you're not a patent lawyer... :) My favorite patent is the one for swinging sideways on a swing, which IMO illustrates you can patent pretty much anything. On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Ikon ayanafr...@gmail.com wrote: Your contention that grown up operating systems should not allow you to copy ideas is totally unfounded. You can never patent abstracty ideas. Game ideas cannot be patented. Whether they should be is a different discussion. You can go right and now, and make a game on Windows with a story very similar to fallout, and write all your own code, and use all your own graphics/sound assets and you will not be infringing on that IP in any way. A company may come and try to sue you, but that has no relevance to a maturity of an operating system. On Apr 13, 10:43 am, Sundog sunns...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone who is surprised by this must be very, very new to the programming game. I've been waiting for this since the store opened. IMHO, to the extent that the Android community becomes a proxy for those that think All Ideas Should Be Free And Stealable, that is the extent to which Android will never be a real grown-up operating system. On Apr 7, 8:43 am, tasos.klei...@gmail.com tasos.klei...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday April 4th, I received a message from google saying that my game Robotic Space Rock was pulled from the android market after a request made by a legal firm representing an entity known as Tetris Company. My application was removed from the android market together with Blocks, Cubik, Net Tetris, Netblocks and Tetroid (6 apps in total) under claim that it violates the DMCA and more specifically trademarks and copyrighted material owned by the Tetris Company. However, none of the trademarks or copyrighted material (music, graphics and sound effects) are present in my game. Sound effects and music were created by me specifically for the game. There is no reference to the word tetris in the game. Additionally, all the game code, graphics and sound effects were created by me and published on the code sitehttp://code.google.com/p/monolithandroid Additionally, I am not aware of a software patent covering the game mechanics of Tetris, so I cannot see how I could violate something that is not protected by a software patent. Also, even if the game was protected by a patent, the patent would have expired, since the original game, Tetris, was created 23 years ago. However game mechanics cannot be covered by patents. I would also like to point out that my game is available completely free of charge to every user of the android market. I wrote those concerns to Google and I sent an email to the EFF. The bottom line is that for my application to be restored on the android market, I have to send a DMCA counter-notification. And then the Tetris Company can sue and take the case to Court. When games were pulled from the iPhone App store, they blamed apple, but it is not hard to see that behind application removals we can find companies like the Tetris Company, that demand application removals claiming copyright infringement and trademarks. However, it is not easy to battle these companies as individual developers. I, for example, am a Greek citizen living in Greece, so it is difficult for me to file a counter-notification, because then the Tetris company will probably sue me and I will have to defend my case in court. Why should I bother? Am I making money out of the game? No! But even if I did you can see how easy it is for corporations to neutralize developers like that. I think that something should be done. Independent developers should get together to battle against such misuse of the law by corporations. And to those that want more facts, you can find more details on my blog:http://tkcodesharing.blogspot.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Ikon ayanafr...@gmail.com wrote: The variable example was just a small example. My point was that on the variable rename alone is not a copyright violation, just because it relates to the same idea. However you cannot copy someones functions and rename the functions/vars and make it your own. This is obviously a close call, and it must be made by a fact-finder. As for your example of a swing, my comment was directed towards video- games, and not physical apparatuses, which are clearly patentable. I know what is accepted as patentable or not by the USPTO, as I submit these patents on a regular basis. If you file patents on a regular basis, then surely you must have heard of the 'swing' patent before, which isn't actually a patent for the apparatus itself, but for a method for swinging sideways on a standard swing. Anyone who was ever a child should be aware of the prior art for that, yet it still got issued. Perhaps patent clerks don't go through the normal human growth cycle but emerge fully grown from a vat or something... :) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
They've lost. They will probably lose again. They need to stop trying to make a mockery of copyrights. On Apr 13, 3:09 pm, Sundog sunns...@gmail.com wrote: OK, so after checking Wikipedia my memory was flawed... though there were massive copyright fights over Tetris that dragged on for years, the original author ended up making very little. But a quick scan of the History part of the entry should convince anyone pretty quick that they don't want to fight The Tetris Company. On Apr 13, 12:49 pm, Sundog sunns...@gmail.com wrote: Again, you both might want to review a little history... in particular the (if memory serves, pretty successful and pretty savage) fight of the author of Tetris to protect his intellectual property over the last 20 years or so. And as I think someone else pointed out, your understanding of the issues involved is not complete, as one would think was self evident in the Google action... game ideas are most certainly protectable. Try writing a Monopoly clone and see what happens, real quick. Are you unaware of the recent Scrabble issue on the iPhone? I don't think you see my point, which is that an operating system/ community/environment that openly disregards intellectual property rights is, in my humble opinion, doomed to failure from the get-go from the inability to form a viable business model for anyone involved. On Apr 13, 11:44 am, Ikon ayanafr...@gmail.com wrote: Your contention that grown up operating systems should not allow you to copy ideas is totally unfounded. You can never patent abstracty ideas. Game ideas cannot be patented. Whether they should be is a different discussion. You can go right and now, and make a game on Windows with a story very similar to fallout, and write all your own code, and use all your own graphics/sound assets and you will not be infringing on that IP in any way. A company may come and try to sue you, but that has no relevance to a maturity of an operating system. On Apr 13, 10:43 am, Sundog sunns...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone who is surprised by this must be very, very new to the programming game. I've been waiting for this since the store opened. IMHO, to the extent that the Android community becomes a proxy for those that think All Ideas Should Be Free And Stealable, that is the extent to which Android will never be a real grown-up operating system. On Apr 7, 8:43 am, tasos.klei...@gmail.com tasos.klei...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday April 4th, I received a message from google saying that my game Robotic Space Rock was pulled from the android market after a request made by a legal firm representing an entity known as Tetris Company. My application was removed from the android market together with Blocks, Cubik, Net Tetris, Netblocks and Tetroid (6 apps in total) under claim that it violates the DMCA and more specifically trademarks and copyrighted material owned by the Tetris Company. However, none of the trademarks or copyrighted material (music, graphics and sound effects) are present in my game. Sound effects and music were created by me specifically for the game. There is no reference to the word tetris in the game. Additionally, all the game code, graphics and sound effects were created by me and published on the code sitehttp://code.google.com/p/monolithandroid Additionally, I am not aware of a software patent covering the game mechanics of Tetris, so I cannot see how I could violate something that is not protected by a software patent. Also, even if the game was protected by a patent, the patent would have expired, since the original game, Tetris, was created 23 years ago. However game mechanics cannot be covered by patents. I would also like to point out that my game is available completely free of charge to every user of the android market. I wrote those concerns to Google and I sent an email to the EFF. The bottom line is that for my application to be restored on the android market, I have to send a DMCA counter-notification. And then the Tetris Company can sue and take the case to Court. When games were pulled from the iPhone App store, they blamed apple, but it is not hard to see that behind application removals we can find companies like the Tetris Company, that demand application removals claiming copyright infringement and trademarks. However, it is not easy to battle these companies as individual developers. I, for example, am a Greek citizen living in Greece, so it is difficult for me to file a counter-notification, because then the Tetris company will probably sue me and I will have to defend my case in court. Why should I bother? Am I making money out of the game? No! But even if I did you can see how easy it is for corporations to
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
OK, so after checking Wikipedia my memory was flawed... though there were massive copyright fights over Tetris that dragged on for years, the original author ended up making very little. But a quick scan of the History part of the entry should convince anyone pretty quick that they don't want to fight The Tetris Company. On Apr 13, 12:49 pm, Sundog sunns...@gmail.com wrote: Again, you both might want to review a little history... in particular the (if memory serves, pretty successful and pretty savage) fight of the author of Tetris to protect his intellectual property over the last 20 years or so. And as I think someone else pointed out, your understanding of the issues involved is not complete, as one would think was self evident in the Google action... game ideas are most certainly protectable. Try writing a Monopoly clone and see what happens, real quick. Are you unaware of the recent Scrabble issue on the iPhone? I don't think you see my point, which is that an operating system/ community/environment that openly disregards intellectual property rights is, in my humble opinion, doomed to failure from the get-go from the inability to form a viable business model for anyone involved. On Apr 13, 11:44 am, Ikon ayanafr...@gmail.com wrote: Your contention that grown up operating systems should not allow you to copy ideas is totally unfounded. You can never patent abstracty ideas. Game ideas cannot be patented. Whether they should be is a different discussion. You can go right and now, and make a game on Windows with a story very similar to fallout, and write all your own code, and use all your own graphics/sound assets and you will not be infringing on that IP in any way. A company may come and try to sue you, but that has no relevance to a maturity of an operating system. On Apr 13, 10:43 am, Sundog sunns...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone who is surprised by this must be very, very new to the programming game. I've been waiting for this since the store opened. IMHO, to the extent that the Android community becomes a proxy for those that think All Ideas Should Be Free And Stealable, that is the extent to which Android will never be a real grown-up operating system. On Apr 7, 8:43 am, tasos.klei...@gmail.com tasos.klei...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday April 4th, I received a message from google saying that my game Robotic Space Rock was pulled from the android market after a request made by a legal firm representing an entity known as Tetris Company. My application was removed from the android market together with Blocks, Cubik, Net Tetris, Netblocks and Tetroid (6 apps in total) under claim that it violates the DMCA and more specifically trademarks and copyrighted material owned by the Tetris Company. However, none of the trademarks or copyrighted material (music, graphics and sound effects) are present in my game. Sound effects and music were created by me specifically for the game. There is no reference to the word tetris in the game. Additionally, all the game code, graphics and sound effects were created by me and published on the code sitehttp://code.google.com/p/monolithandroid Additionally, I am not aware of a software patent covering the game mechanics of Tetris, so I cannot see how I could violate something that is not protected by a software patent. Also, even if the game was protected by a patent, the patent would have expired, since the original game, Tetris, was created 23 years ago. However game mechanics cannot be covered by patents. I would also like to point out that my game is available completely free of charge to every user of the android market. I wrote those concerns to Google and I sent an email to the EFF. The bottom line is that for my application to be restored on the android market, I have to send a DMCA counter-notification. And then the Tetris Company can sue and take the case to Court. When games were pulled from the iPhone App store, they blamed apple, but it is not hard to see that behind application removals we can find companies like the Tetris Company, that demand application removals claiming copyright infringement and trademarks. However, it is not easy to battle these companies as individual developers. I, for example, am a Greek citizen living in Greece, so it is difficult for me to file a counter-notification, because then the Tetris company will probably sue me and I will have to defend my case in court. Why should I bother? Am I making money out of the game? No! But even if I did you can see how easy it is for corporations to neutralize developers like that. I think that something should be done. Independent developers should get together to battle against such misuse of the law by corporations. And to those that want more facts, you can find
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
A method can be patented. And not 'anything' On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 9:18 PM, Marco Nelissen marc...@android.com wrote: You can never patent abstract ideas. Game ideas cannot be patented OK, so we've established you're not a patent lawyer... :) My favorite patent is the one for swinging sideways on a swing, which IMO illustrates you can patent pretty much anything. On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Ikon ayanafr...@gmail.com wrote: Your contention that grown up operating systems should not allow you to copy ideas is totally unfounded. You can never patent abstracty ideas. Game ideas cannot be patented. Whether they should be is a different discussion. You can go right and now, and make a game on Windows with a story very similar to fallout, and write all your own code, and use all your own graphics/sound assets and you will not be infringing on that IP in any way. A company may come and try to sue you, but that has no relevance to a maturity of an operating system. On Apr 13, 10:43 am, Sundog sunns...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone who is surprised by this must be very, very new to the programming game. I've been waiting for this since the store opened. IMHO, to the extent that the Android community becomes a proxy for those that think All Ideas Should Be Free And Stealable, that is the extent to which Android will never be a real grown-up operating system. On Apr 7, 8:43 am, tasos.klei...@gmail.com tasos.klei...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday April 4th, I received a message from google saying that my game Robotic Space Rock was pulled from the android market after a request made by a legal firm representing an entity known as Tetris Company. My application was removed from the android market together with Blocks, Cubik, Net Tetris, Netblocks and Tetroid (6 apps in total) under claim that it violates the DMCA and more specifically trademarks and copyrighted material owned by the Tetris Company. However, none of the trademarks or copyrighted material (music, graphics and sound effects) are present in my game. Sound effects and music were created by me specifically for the game. There is no reference to the word tetris in the game. Additionally, all the game code, graphics and sound effects were created by me and published on the code sitehttp://code.google.com/p/monolithandroid Additionally, I am not aware of a software patent covering the game mechanics of Tetris, so I cannot see how I could violate something that is not protected by a software patent. Also, even if the game was protected by a patent, the patent would have expired, since the original game, Tetris, was created 23 years ago. However game mechanics cannot be covered by patents. I would also like to point out that my game is available completely free of charge to every user of the android market. I wrote those concerns to Google and I sent an email to the EFF. The bottom line is that for my application to be restored on the android market, I have to send a DMCA counter-notification. And then the Tetris Company can sue and take the case to Court. When games were pulled from the iPhone App store, they blamed apple, but it is not hard to see that behind application removals we can find companies like the Tetris Company, that demand application removals claiming copyright infringement and trademarks. However, it is not easy to battle these companies as individual developers. I, for example, am a Greek citizen living in Greece, so it is difficult for me to file a counter-notification, because then the Tetris company will probably sue me and I will have to defend my case in court. Why should I bother? Am I making money out of the game? No! But even if I did you can see how easy it is for corporations to neutralize developers like that. I think that something should be done. Independent developers should get together to battle against such misuse of the law by corporations. And to those that want more facts, you can find more details on my blog:http://tkcodesharing.blogspot.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
Actually even method patents are in peril. See a recent case called In Re Bilski. Even method patents must be tied to particular physical apparatuses, or must transform some physical subject matter into another state or thing. On Apr 13, 3:18 pm, george_c chrisg...@gmail.com wrote: A method can be patented. And not 'anything' On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 9:18 PM, Marco Nelissen marc...@android.com wrote: You can never patent abstract ideas. Game ideas cannot be patented OK, so we've established you're not a patent lawyer... :) My favorite patent is the one for swinging sideways on a swing, which IMO illustrates you can patent pretty much anything. On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Ikon ayanafr...@gmail.com wrote: Your contention that grown up operating systems should not allow you to copy ideas is totally unfounded. You can never patent abstracty ideas. Game ideas cannot be patented. Whether they should be is a different discussion. You can go right and now, and make a game on Windows with a story very similar to fallout, and write all your own code, and use all your own graphics/sound assets and you will not be infringing on that IP in any way. A company may come and try to sue you, but that has no relevance to a maturity of an operating system. On Apr 13, 10:43 am, Sundog sunns...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone who is surprised by this must be very, very new to the programming game. I've been waiting for this since the store opened. IMHO, to the extent that the Android community becomes a proxy for those that think All Ideas Should Be Free And Stealable, that is the extent to which Android will never be a real grown-up operating system. On Apr 7, 8:43 am, tasos.klei...@gmail.com tasos.klei...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday April 4th, I received a message from google saying that my game Robotic Space Rock was pulled from the android market after a request made by a legal firm representing an entity known as Tetris Company. My application was removed from the android market together with Blocks, Cubik, Net Tetris, Netblocks and Tetroid (6 apps in total) under claim that it violates the DMCA and more specifically trademarks and copyrighted material owned by the Tetris Company. However, none of the trademarks or copyrighted material (music, graphics and sound effects) are present in my game. Sound effects and music were created by me specifically for the game. There is no reference to the word tetris in the game. Additionally, all the game code, graphics and sound effects were created by me and published on the code sitehttp://code.google.com/p/monolithandroid Additionally, I am not aware of a software patent covering the game mechanics of Tetris, so I cannot see how I could violate something that is not protected by a software patent. Also, even if the game was protected by a patent, the patent would have expired, since the original game, Tetris, was created 23 years ago. However game mechanics cannot be covered by patents. I would also like to point out that my game is available completely free of charge to every user of the android market. I wrote those concerns to Google and I sent an email to the EFF. The bottom line is that for my application to be restored on the android market, I have to send a DMCA counter-notification. And then the Tetris Company can sue and take the case to Court. When games were pulled from the iPhone App store, they blamed apple, but it is not hard to see that behind application removals we can find companies like the Tetris Company, that demand application removals claiming copyright infringement and trademarks. However, it is not easy to battle these companies as individual developers. I, for example, am a Greek citizen living in Greece, so it is difficult for me to file a counter-notification, because then the Tetris company will probably sue me and I will have to defend my case in court. Why should I bother? Am I making money out of the game? No! But even if I did you can see how easy it is for corporations to neutralize developers like that. I think that something should be done. Independent developers should get together to battle against such misuse of the law by corporations. And to those that want more facts, you can find more details on my blog:http://tkcodesharing.blogspot.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
This is as wrong as wrong can be. Believe this at your economic peril. On Apr 13, 11:39 am, Ikon ayanafr...@gmail.com wrote: This is not legal advice. I actually am a lawyer, and these copyright violation claims are very shaky. Basically, they have a copyright to the exactly worded source code. So if they wrote int numTetrads = 50 and you wrote int numBlocks = 50 you would not be infringing. You need to copy, wholesale, a portion of their code in order to infringe on their copyright. - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
Again, you both might want to review a little history... in particular the (if memory serves, pretty successful and pretty savage) fight of the author of Tetris to protect his intellectual property over the last 20 years or so. And as I think someone else pointed out, your understanding of the issues involved is not complete, as one would think was self evident in the Google action... game ideas are most certainly protectable. Try writing a Monopoly clone and see what happens, real quick. Are you unaware of the recent Scrabble issue on the iPhone? I don't think you see my point, which is that an operating system/ community/environment that openly disregards intellectual property rights is, in my humble opinion, doomed to failure from the get-go from the inability to form a viable business model for anyone involved. On Apr 13, 11:44 am, Ikon ayanafr...@gmail.com wrote: Your contention that grown up operating systems should not allow you to copy ideas is totally unfounded. You can never patent abstracty ideas. Game ideas cannot be patented. Whether they should be is a different discussion. You can go right and now, and make a game on Windows with a story very similar to fallout, and write all your own code, and use all your own graphics/sound assets and you will not be infringing on that IP in any way. A company may come and try to sue you, but that has no relevance to a maturity of an operating system. On Apr 13, 10:43 am, Sundog sunns...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone who is surprised by this must be very, very new to the programming game. I've been waiting for this since the store opened. IMHO, to the extent that the Android community becomes a proxy for those that think All Ideas Should Be Free And Stealable, that is the extent to which Android will never be a real grown-up operating system. On Apr 7, 8:43 am, tasos.klei...@gmail.com tasos.klei...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday April 4th, I received a message from google saying that my game Robotic Space Rock was pulled from the android market after a request made by a legal firm representing an entity known as Tetris Company. My application was removed from the android market together with Blocks, Cubik, Net Tetris, Netblocks and Tetroid (6 apps in total) under claim that it violates the DMCA and more specifically trademarks and copyrighted material owned by the Tetris Company. However, none of the trademarks or copyrighted material (music, graphics and sound effects) are present in my game. Sound effects and music were created by me specifically for the game. There is no reference to the word tetris in the game. Additionally, all the game code, graphics and sound effects were created by me and published on the code sitehttp://code.google.com/p/monolithandroid Additionally, I am not aware of a software patent covering the game mechanics of Tetris, so I cannot see how I could violate something that is not protected by a software patent. Also, even if the game was protected by a patent, the patent would have expired, since the original game, Tetris, was created 23 years ago. However game mechanics cannot be covered by patents. I would also like to point out that my game is available completely free of charge to every user of the android market. I wrote those concerns to Google and I sent an email to the EFF. The bottom line is that for my application to be restored on the android market, I have to send a DMCA counter-notification. And then the Tetris Company can sue and take the case to Court. When games were pulled from the iPhone App store, they blamed apple, but it is not hard to see that behind application removals we can find companies like the Tetris Company, that demand application removals claiming copyright infringement and trademarks. However, it is not easy to battle these companies as individual developers. I, for example, am a Greek citizen living in Greece, so it is difficult for me to file a counter-notification, because then the Tetris company will probably sue me and I will have to defend my case in court. Why should I bother? Am I making money out of the game? No! But even if I did you can see how easy it is for corporations to neutralize developers like that. I think that something should be done. Independent developers should get together to battle against such misuse of the law by corporations. And to those that want more facts, you can find more details on my blog:http://tkcodesharing.blogspot.com- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
I find it disheartening that this discussion is even taking place. Is this really the level of understanding of intellectual property rights among the community? Let's say you're Electronic Arts with Tetris and Monopoly ready for the Android platform, as they claimed was imminent way back in OCTOBER. Are you going to release your games in a Wild West free-for- all where anyone can clone your game and sell it? Not a chance. That isn't the way the real world works, whether it fits with the everything should be free philosophy or not. It's piracy, whether we want to say the word or not. It seems so simple: Come up with your own ideas, or at least if you're going to copy something, make sure it's in the public domain first. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
Are you unaware of the recent Scrabble issue on the iPhone? You are probably referring to Scrabulous on Facebook. As far as I am aware, this also was mainly a trademark issue. Hasbro has claimed copyright on the game itself, but of course, that doesn't really mean much. I don't think you see my point, which is that an operating system/ community/environment that openly disregards intellectual property rights is, in my humble opinion, doomed to failure from the get-go from the inability to form a viable business model for anyone involved. I don't see this happening. However, at the very least within this thread, TTC's factual intellectual property rights are in dispute. See, I think we all here believe in copyright. Some however may believe that copyright should expire at some point (which in fact it does). Some may believe that the rules of a game like Tetris should not be covered by copyright. Evidence I've seen so far seems to suggest that indeed they aren't. Laws also differ between different countries. Clearly, it's a judgment call how far intellectual property rights should go. Michael --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
Dude. Copyright does not cover ideas. The end. Piracy is defined by what IP rights are. There is no tetris patent claim (which would cover an idea that is tangible enough). There is a tetris copyright claim. However, the copyright claim applies to look and feel, and a fact finding of just how close the written source code of a tetris clone is to Tetris Company's source code. How can you pirate something unless you have actually stolen someone's IP? On Apr 13, 4:16 pm, Sundog sunns...@gmail.com wrote: I find it disheartening that this discussion is even taking place. Is this really the level of understanding of intellectual property rights among the community? Let's say you're Electronic Arts with Tetris and Monopoly ready for the Android platform, as they claimed was imminent way back in OCTOBER. Are you going to release your games in a Wild West free-for- all where anyone can clone your game and sell it? Not a chance. That isn't the way the real world works, whether it fits with the everything should be free philosophy or not. It's piracy, whether we want to say the word or not. It seems so simple: Come up with your own ideas, or at least if you're going to copy something, make sure it's in the public domain first. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
Looks like legal teramino clones out there. Take a gander at this excert http://everything2.com/title/The%2520Tetris%2520Company. ~clark On Apr 13, 2:51 pm, Ikon ayanafr...@gmail.com wrote: Dude. Copyright does not cover ideas. The end. Piracy is defined by what IP rights are. There is notetrispatent claim (which would cover an idea that is tangible enough). There is atetriscopyright claim. However, the copyright claim applies to look and feel, and a fact finding of just how close the written source code of atetrisclone is toTetrisCompany's source code. How can you pirate something unless you have actually stolen someone's IP? On Apr 13, 4:16 pm, Sundog sunns...@gmail.com wrote: I find it disheartening that this discussion is even taking place. Is this really the level of understanding of intellectual property rights among the community? Let's say you're Electronic Arts withTetrisand Monopoly ready for the Android platform, as they claimed was imminent way back in OCTOBER. Are you going to release your games in a Wild West free-for- all where anyone can clone your game and sell it? Not a chance. That isn't the way the real world works, whether it fits with the everything should be free philosophy or not. It's piracy, whether we want to say the word or not. It seems so simple: Come up with your own ideas, or at least if you're going to copy something, make sure it's in the public domain first.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
Not strictly true. They can choose to remove the material and not be liable for copyright infringement themselves, or they can ignore the request and become liable. In reality, most will choose the first option. On Apr 11, 3:23 pm, Edward Falk ed.f...@gmail.com wrote: My understanding is: When an ISP or other provider receives a DMCA takedown notice, they have no choice but to take the offending material off line. They can't use their judgment, they just have to do it. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
I think the most tragic thing about this is the guy who brought this up is not US based and so the DMCA is irrelevant to hi as it has no juristiction. If Google wants to apply US laws to everyone around the world who wishes to list an app on market I can see a lot of problems ahead with this and other Intellectual Property related issues. Al. - Original Message - From: Semprebon sempre...@gmail.com To: Android Developers android-developers@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 1:28 PM Subject: [android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market Not strictly true. They can choose to remove the material and not be liable for copyright infringement themselves, or they can ignore the request and become liable. In reality, most will choose the first option. On Apr 11, 3:23 pm, Edward Falk ed.f...@gmail.com wrote: My understanding is: When an ISP or other provider receives a DMCA takedown notice, they have no choice but to take the offending material off line. They can't use their judgment, they just have to do it. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
You forget that Google is a US entity and as such is bound to US laws, such as, for example, complying to US export limitations. If you don't like it, you can always create your own app store that is not bound to US laws and encourage developers to use it :-p R/ On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 5:32 AM, Al Sutton a...@funkyandroid.com wrote: I think the most tragic thing about this is the guy who brought this up is not US based and so the DMCA is irrelevant to hi as it has no juristiction. If Google wants to apply US laws to everyone around the world who wishes to list an app on market I can see a lot of problems ahead with this and other Intellectual Property related issues. Al. - Original Message - From: Semprebon sempre...@gmail.com To: Android Developers android-developers@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 1:28 PM Subject: [android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market Not strictly true. They can choose to remove the material and not be liable for copyright infringement themselves, or they can ignore the request and become liable. In reality, most will choose the first option. On Apr 11, 3:23 pm, Edward Falk ed.f...@gmail.com wrote: My understanding is: When an ISP or other provider receives a DMCA takedown notice, they have no choice but to take the offending material off line. They can't use their judgment, they just have to do it. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
I wrote those concerns to Google and I sent an email to the EFF. The bottom line is that for my application to be restored on the android market, I have to send a DMCA counter-notification. And then the Tetris Company can sue and take the case to Court. Yes, this is how the DMCA works. I wish everybody knew this part. My understanding is: When an ISP or other provider receives a DMCA takedown notice, they have no choice but to take the offending material off line. They can't use their judgment, they just have to do it. If you file a counter-claim, then they have to put the material *back* on line. Again, not their decision to make. After that, it's between you, the complainant, and the courts. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
I still remember the Lotus Look Feel lawsuits that put a couple of companies out of business in the late 80's early 90's; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Development_Corporation#Look_and_Feel Hence why I'm always wary of look and feel claims. As for the statement you've quoted, as I read it we're not talking about the idea of a game to fit blocks together, nor the name Tetris, nor the G1s input methods. Monolith Android copies every aspect of Tetris down to the shapes of the block, removal of full lines, multi coloured blocks, etc., etc., etc. Yes, it adds a few features and the actual graphics, music, etc are not lifted directly from a Tetris implementation, but as I see it it's like building and selling a car that looks like a Porsche but with slightly different shaped headlights and doors. Given that the Tetris company already have a sidekick implementation I guess they're clearing the way for a G1 implementation by removing any competition. Al. P.S. Personally I'd rather see all this effort go into something new and original, not recycling an idea that as the OP mentioned is over 20 years old. --- * Written an Android App? - List it at http://andappstore.com/ * == Funky Android Limited is registered in England Wales with the company number 6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House, 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK. The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's subsidiaries. -Original Message- From: android-developers@googlegroups.com [mailto:android-develop...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ewjordan Sent: 07 April 2009 23:04 To: Android Developers Subject: [android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market On Apr 7, 11:31 am, Al Sutton a...@funkyandroid.com wrote: Implementations can be copyrighted which is where there claim comes from. Yes, implementations may be copyrighted, but unless these apps actually use code stolen from an official Tetris release, they are not infringing against these copyrights. A game's mechanics absolutely positively may not be copyrighted. I quote straight from the US Copyright Office: The idea for a game is not protected by copyright. The same is true of the name or title given to the game and of the method or methods for playing it. (http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html) TTC is (and has been, for quite some time) trying to churn copyright and trademark together into some muddy mixture of general IP protection so they can assert ownership over the _idea_ itself, but this is not legally valid. As mentioned previously, this is the type of thing that would require a patent, but they don't have one, so they're instead banking on the fact that the people they're going after don't have the resources to fight them. Google's hands are tied, since they have to comply with DMCA requests by default. Counter-notifications are the way to go, and should effectively force the issue - recall, Apple yanked the apps by its own decision, so a counter-claim means nothing, whereas Google is simply pulling apps to comply with DMCA. There's a _huge_ difference there. Having seen the demo video of your game I can see why they would appear to have a reasonable basis for their case. You'd added some fancy features, but the basic game play is the same right down to the block shapes. My advice, and I'm not a lawyer, is to start work on something original because I don't see Google letting you back in the market with your app any time soon. Al. --- * Written an Android App? - List it athttp://andappstore.com/* == Funky Android Limited is registered in England Wales with the company number 6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House, 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK. The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's subsidiaries. -Original Message- From: android-developers@googlegroups.com [mailto:android-develop...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tasos.Kleisas Sent: 07 April 2009 16:22 To: Android Developers Subject: [android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market Ideas cannot be copyrighted, only patented. But the Tetris Company does not have a patent. And game concepts are not patentable. Take a look athttp://desiree47.wordpress.com/andhttp://abednarz.net/wp/34/They claim a look and feel copyright claim, but the game art, sounds and music have nothing to do with tetris. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
From the same copyright page that was quoted (http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html); Some material prepared in connection with a game may be subject to copyright if it contains a sufficient amount of literary or pictorial expression. For example, the text matter describing the rules of the game, or the pictorial matter appearing on the gameboard or container, may be registrable. To me that covers block shapes, multi-coloured blocks, removal filled lines, etc., etc., etc. Al. --- * Written an Android App? - List it at http://andappstore.com/ * == Funky Android Limited is registered in England Wales with the company number 6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House, 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK. The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's subsidiaries. -Original Message- From: android-developers@googlegroups.com [mailto:android-develop...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Sutton Sent: 08 April 2009 07:56 To: android-developers@googlegroups.com Subject: [android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market I still remember the Lotus Look Feel lawsuits that put a couple of companies out of business in the late 80's early 90's; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Development_Corporation#Look_and_Feel Hence why I'm always wary of look and feel claims. As for the statement you've quoted, as I read it we're not talking about the idea of a game to fit blocks together, nor the name Tetris, nor the G1s input methods. Monolith Android copies every aspect of Tetris down to the shapes of the block, removal of full lines, multi coloured blocks, etc., etc., etc. Yes, it adds a few features and the actual graphics, music, etc are not lifted directly from a Tetris implementation, but as I see it it's like building and selling a car that looks like a Porsche but with slightly different shaped headlights and doors. Given that the Tetris company already have a sidekick implementation I guess they're clearing the way for a G1 implementation by removing any competition. Al. P.S. Personally I'd rather see all this effort go into something new and original, not recycling an idea that as the OP mentioned is over 20 years old. --- * Written an Android App? - List it at http://andappstore.com/ * == Funky Android Limited is registered in England Wales with the company number 6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House, 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK. The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's subsidiaries. -Original Message- From: android-developers@googlegroups.com [mailto:android-develop...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ewjordan Sent: 07 April 2009 23:04 To: Android Developers Subject: [android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market On Apr 7, 11:31 am, Al Sutton a...@funkyandroid.com wrote: Implementations can be copyrighted which is where there claim comes from. Yes, implementations may be copyrighted, but unless these apps actually use code stolen from an official Tetris release, they are not infringing against these copyrights. A game's mechanics absolutely positively may not be copyrighted. I quote straight from the US Copyright Office: The idea for a game is not protected by copyright. The same is true of the name or title given to the game and of the method or methods for playing it. (http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html) TTC is (and has been, for quite some time) trying to churn copyright and trademark together into some muddy mixture of general IP protection so they can assert ownership over the _idea_ itself, but this is not legally valid. As mentioned previously, this is the type of thing that would require a patent, but they don't have one, so they're instead banking on the fact that the people they're going after don't have the resources to fight them. Google's hands are tied, since they have to comply with DMCA requests by default. Counter-notifications are the way to go, and should effectively force the issue - recall, Apple yanked the apps by its own decision, so a counter-claim means nothing, whereas Google is simply pulling apps to comply with DMCA. There's a _huge_ difference there. Having seen the demo video of your game I can see why they would appear to have a reasonable basis for their case. You'd added some fancy features, but the basic game play is the same right down to the block shapes. My advice, and I'm not a lawyer, is to start work on something original because I don't see Google letting you back in the market with your app any time soon. Al. --- * Written an Android App? - List it athttp://andappstore.com/* == Funky Android Limited is registered in England Wales with the company number 6741909. The registered head
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
On Apr 8, 12:00 am, Al Sutton a...@funkyandroid.com wrote: Some material prepared in connection with a game may be subject to copyright if it contains a sufficient amount of literary or pictorial expression. For example, the text matter describing the rules of the game, or the pictorial matter appearing on the gameboard or container, may be registrable. To me that covers block shapes, multi-coloured blocks, removal filled lines, etc., etc., etc. This says the *text matter describing the rules* is subject to copyright. It does not say that the rules themselves are. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
I think Tetris game mechanics are copyrighted. So maybe that's the main issue. I haven't tried your game but if it's a tetris clone, you can always expect to be pulled out from any market. Ivan Soto Fernandez Web Developer http://ivansotof.com On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 8:43 AM, tasos.klei...@gmail.com tasos.klei...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday April 4th, I received a message from google saying that my game Robotic Space Rock was pulled from the android market after a request made by a legal firm representing an entity known as Tetris Company. My application was removed from the android market together with Blocks, Cubik, Net Tetris, Netblocks and Tetroid (6 apps in total) under claim that it violates the DMCA and more specifically trademarks and copyrighted material owned by the Tetris Company. However, none of the trademarks or copyrighted material (music, graphics and sound effects) are present in my game. Sound effects and music were created by me specifically for the game. There is no reference to the word tetris in the game. Additionally, all the game code, graphics and sound effects were created by me and published on the code site http://code.google.com/p/monolithandroid Additionally, I am not aware of a software patent covering the game mechanics of Tetris, so I cannot see how I could violate something that is not protected by a software patent. Also, even if the game was protected by a patent, the patent would have expired, since the original game, Tetris, was created 23 years ago. However game mechanics cannot be covered by patents. I would also like to point out that my game is available completely free of charge to every user of the android market. I wrote those concerns to Google and I sent an email to the EFF. The bottom line is that for my application to be restored on the android market, I have to send a DMCA counter-notification. And then the Tetris Company can sue and take the case to Court. When games were pulled from the iPhone App store, they blamed apple, but it is not hard to see that behind application removals we can find companies like the Tetris Company, that demand application removals claiming copyright infringement and trademarks. However, it is not easy to battle these companies as individual developers. I, for example, am a Greek citizen living in Greece, so it is difficult for me to file a counter-notification, because then the Tetris company will probably sue me and I will have to defend my case in court. Why should I bother? Am I making money out of the game? No! But even if I did you can see how easy it is for corporations to neutralize developers like that. I think that something should be done. Independent developers should get together to battle against such misuse of the law by corporations. And to those that want more facts, you can find more details on my blog: http://tkcodesharing.blogspot.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
Ideas cannot be copyrighted, only patented. But the Tetris Company does not have a patent. And game concepts are not patentable. Take a look at http://desiree47.wordpress.com/ and http://abednarz.net/wp/34/ They claim a look and feel copyright claim, but the game art, sounds and music have nothing to do with tetris. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
Implementations can be copyrighted which is where there claim comes from. Having seen the demo video of your game I can see why they would appear to have a reasonable basis for their case. You'd added some fancy features, but the basic game play is the same right down to the block shapes. My advice, and I'm not a lawyer, is to start work on something original because I don't see Google letting you back in the market with your app any time soon. Al. --- * Written an Android App? - List it at http://andappstore.com/ * == Funky Android Limited is registered in England Wales with the company number 6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House, 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK. The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's subsidiaries. -Original Message- From: android-developers@googlegroups.com [mailto:android-develop...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tasos.Kleisas Sent: 07 April 2009 16:22 To: Android Developers Subject: [android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market Ideas cannot be copyrighted, only patented. But the Tetris Company does not have a patent. And game concepts are not patentable. Take a look at http://desiree47.wordpress.com/ and http://abednarz.net/wp/34/ They claim a look and feel copyright claim, but the game art, sounds and music have nothing to do with tetris. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
Having seen the demo video of your game I can see why they would appear to have a reasonable basis for their case. You'd added some fancy features, but the basic game play is the same right down to the block shapes. I don't think so. I'm no layer either, of course, but I thought the consensus was that while TTC has a trademark claim to the name, copyright claims on features and gameplay are just bullying. I've also never heard of TTC ever winning this case in a court, or, for that matter, even just following up on their threats against people who refuse to comply. Michael --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market
On Apr 7, 11:31 am, Al Sutton a...@funkyandroid.com wrote: Implementations can be copyrighted which is where there claim comes from. Yes, implementations may be copyrighted, but unless these apps actually use code stolen from an official Tetris release, they are not infringing against these copyrights. A game's mechanics absolutely positively may not be copyrighted. I quote straight from the US Copyright Office: The idea for a game is not protected by copyright. The same is true of the name or title given to the game and of the method or methods for playing it. (http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html) TTC is (and has been, for quite some time) trying to churn copyright and trademark together into some muddy mixture of general IP protection so they can assert ownership over the _idea_ itself, but this is not legally valid. As mentioned previously, this is the type of thing that would require a patent, but they don't have one, so they're instead banking on the fact that the people they're going after don't have the resources to fight them. Google's hands are tied, since they have to comply with DMCA requests by default. Counter-notifications are the way to go, and should effectively force the issue - recall, Apple yanked the apps by its own decision, so a counter-claim means nothing, whereas Google is simply pulling apps to comply with DMCA. There's a _huge_ difference there. Having seen the demo video of your game I can see why they would appear to have a reasonable basis for their case. You'd added some fancy features, but the basic game play is the same right down to the block shapes. My advice, and I'm not a lawyer, is to start work on something original because I don't see Google letting you back in the market with your app any time soon. Al. --- * Written an Android App? - List it athttp://andappstore.com/* == Funky Android Limited is registered in England Wales with the company number 6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House, 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK. The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's subsidiaries. -Original Message- From: android-developers@googlegroups.com [mailto:android-develop...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tasos.Kleisas Sent: 07 April 2009 16:22 To: Android Developers Subject: [android-developers] Re: Apps labeled as Tetris Clones removed from Android Market Ideas cannot be copyrighted, only patented. But the Tetris Company does not have a patent. And game concepts are not patentable. Take a look athttp://desiree47.wordpress.com/andhttp://abednarz.net/wp/34/They claim a look and feel copyright claim, but the game art, sounds and music have nothing to do with tetris. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
