Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness
From: Evan B. Milburn ebmilb...@yahoo.com To: Apple-crop discussion list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 5:58 AM Subject: Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness My advice learned from very bad experience is never use B-9 on old nonfumigated. When B-9 was fairly new we planted a ten acre block of Brookfield Gala, l5x14 (back then was high density) 1st year great growth, 2nd year slower growth, all fruit removed. third year great fruit set and thinned hard, but very studded growth. Year 4, hardly any growth.,Year 5 some were dying. EVERY THING in the book was tried to keep them going to no avail. Nothing worked. Year 6 all were removed. Huge loose!! In this same block one half a row of M-9 337 of same variety was planted to finished out the last row and block. These grew and produced as I expected. Same thing has happen on smaller blocks of various other varieties. B-9 makes MARK look a hero! All 18,000 thousand we planted of them are now gone too! Some times being on the cutting edge means your going to get your head cut off. For me no more B-9s! All of our acreage are planted on M-9337 and will be in the future till the Geneva series proves themselves.(by some one else) Remember, the early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese! Evan B. Milburn http://www.milburnorchards.com/ From: Hugh Thomas hughthoma...@gmail.com To: Apple-crop discussion list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 12:36 AM Subject: Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness The successful grower I met in Washington irrigates Bud 9 every 5 days. This is under-tree sprinkler irrigation. I do the same and water 1 - 1.5 with each irrigation every five days on average in the summer. If the weather is really hot, say 95F everyday, then I might shorten that to every 4 days. My soil is a silt/loam that has good drainage, high organic matter and holds moisture well. In fact, I was amazed at how much water HC/B9 needs. I believe if you are not irrigating Honeycrisp on Bud 9, you are in trouble. Bud 9 seems to like wet feet, but at the same time the soil needs air. My philosophy is to water an inch plus, and then let that drain down and give the trees a chance to have air for a couple of days, and then do it again. I can see stunting if the trees get dry, as the roots will send a chemical signal to the upper part of the tree and tell it to stop growing. My sense is that Bud 9 has a hair trigger on sending that signal. I just assumed that all orchards back East have irrigation, if not, then I would bet a cheeseburger that this is the problem with runted out Bud 9's. If I had a stunted Bud 9 block, I would get a soil test and a tissue test and POUR the nutrients on the block and NEVER let the trees dry out too far. I would crank up the NPK and minors at the expense of fruit quality for a season and then back off the N for fruiting if the trees recover. My two cents... On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Steven Bibula sbib...@maine.rr.com wrote: Especially for Jon Clements, but others as well: Are your initial Honeycrisp/Bud 9 Tall Spindle trials, where you cropped starting in 2nd leaf, agreeing with Mike’s experience? Looking at these trials subsequently, what happened to production? I have a 1,000 tree Honeycrisp/Bud 9 Tall Spindle planting planned for 2015 and this discussion has taken a very interesting turn. I noticed this year that with my 2nd leaf Snowsweet Tall Spindle on Bud 9, the trees that were fully cropped hardly grew (but produced huge fruit); however, the trees that had no fruit (spotty pollination in southern Maine with nearly continuous rain during bloom) also grew very little. Not one Snowsweet is even close to the top wire, located ~8.5’. We did have four periods of drought-induced stress this year, and the Bud 9 varieties were clearly the most checked. I will have Uniram drip with fertigation for all trees starting in 2014, and I anticipate that this will help ameliorate. Steven Bibula Plowshares Community Farm 236 Sebago Lake Road Gorham ME 04038 207.239.0442 http://www.plowsharesmaine.com/ From:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Mike Fargione Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 9:42 AM To: jon.cleme...@umass.edu; Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness Some growers in NY’s Hudson Valley prefer to plant Honeycrisp on B9 because they feel these trees are less prone to biennial bearing and can be cropped more heavily each year compared with Honeycrisp on M9. Our experience is that planting Honeycrisp/B9 at higher density and not cropping in years 1 2 can produce a very productive orchard. Mike From:apple-crop-boun
Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness
My advice learned from very bad experience is never use B-9 on old nonfumigated. When B-9 was fairly new we planted a ten acre block of Brookfield Gala, l5x14 (back then was high density) 1st year great growth, 2nd year slower growth, all fruit removed. third year great fruit set and thinned hard, but very studded growth. Year 4, hardly any growth.,Year 5 some were dying. EVERY THING in the book was tried to keep them going to no avail. Nothing worked. Year 6 all were removed. Huge loose!! In this same block one half a row of M-9 337 of same variety was planted to finished out the last row and block. These grew and produced as I expected. Same thing has happen on smaller blocks of various other varieties. B-9 makes MARK look a hero! All 18,000 thousand we planted of them are now gone too! Some times being on the cutting edge means your going to get your head cut off. For me no more B-9s! All of our acreage are planted on M-9337 and will be in the future till the Geneva series proves themselves.(by some one else) Remember, the early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese! Evan B. Milburn www.milburnorchards.com From: Hugh Thomas hughthoma...@gmail.com To: Apple-crop discussion list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 12:36 AM Subject: Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness The successful grower I met in Washington irrigates Bud 9 every 5 days. This is under-tree sprinkler irrigation. I do the same and water 1 - 1.5 with each irrigation every five days on average in the summer. If the weather is really hot, say 95F everyday, then I might shorten that to every 4 days. My soil is a silt/loam that has good drainage, high organic matter and holds moisture well. In fact, I was amazed at how much water HC/B9 needs. I believe if you are not irrigating Honeycrisp on Bud 9, you are in trouble. Bud 9 seems to like wet feet, but at the same time the soil needs air. My philosophy is to water an inch plus, and then let that drain down and give the trees a chance to have air for a couple of days, and then do it again. I can see stunting if the trees get dry, as the roots will send a chemical signal to the upper part of the tree and tell it to stop growing. My sense is that Bud 9 has a hair trigger on sending that signal. I just assumed that all orchards back East have irrigation, if not, then I would bet a cheeseburger that this is the problem with runted out Bud 9's. If I had a stunted Bud 9 block, I would get a soil test and a tissue test and POUR the nutrients on the block and NEVER let the trees dry out too far. I would crank up the NPK and minors at the expense of fruit quality for a season and then back off the N for fruiting if the trees recover. My two cents... On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Steven Bibula sbib...@maine.rr.com wrote: Especially for Jon Clements, but others as well: Are your initial Honeycrisp/Bud 9 Tall Spindle trials, where you cropped starting in 2nd leaf, agreeing with Mike’s experience? Looking at these trials subsequently, what happened to production? I have a 1,000 tree Honeycrisp/Bud 9 Tall Spindle planting planned for 2015 and this discussion has taken a very interesting turn. I noticed this year that with my 2nd leaf Snowsweet Tall Spindle on Bud 9, the trees that were fully cropped hardly grew (but produced huge fruit); however, the trees that had no fruit (spotty pollination in southern Maine with nearly continuous rain during bloom) also grew very little. Not one Snowsweet is even close to the top wire, located ~8.5’. We did have four periods of drought-induced stress this year, and the Bud 9 varieties were clearly the most checked. I will have Uniram drip with fertigation for all trees starting in 2014, and I anticipate that this will help ameliorate. Steven Bibula Plowshares Community Farm 236 Sebago Lake Road Gorham ME 04038 207.239.0442 http://www.plowsharesmaine.com/ From:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Mike Fargione Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 9:42 AM To: jon.cleme...@umass.edu; Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness Some growers in NY’s Hudson Valley prefer to plant Honeycrisp on B9 because they feel these trees are less prone to biennial bearing and can be cropped more heavily each year compared with Honeycrisp on M9. Our experience is that planting Honeycrisp/B9 at higher density and not cropping in years 1 2 can produce a very productive orchard. Mike From:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Jon Clements Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 6:26 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter
Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness
I was being a bit flippant (as usual). But, I do have personal experience with two Honeycrisp/Bud9 plantings. The one you refer to, planted in 2006, yes, the Honeycrisp/Bud9 are not where they should be in terms of size and bushels/acre although I stopped collecting data some years ago. I am sure I over-cropped them in years 2-3. Let's say these trees were from Nursery A (see below), and initially they were some of the most beautiful red coloring Honeycrisp I have seen. More recently, the color seems to have diminished, even though the trees are certainly not over-fertilized or vigorous. They have also become rather biennial, probably a result of inconsistent crop load management on my part. (Crop load and apple scab management seem to be the two biggest apple production problems we face year-in/year-out in the East.) I should also mention McIntosh/Bud9 were also planted to compare to Honeycrisp; these have had no problem filling their space and out-yield Honeycrisp because of the larger canopy volume. (Bud 9 is a great rootstock for McIntosh!) Results of this mini-apple orchard systems trial were published in Fruit Notes: http://umassfruitnotes.com/v76n1/a4.pdf Another Honeycrisp/Bud9 planting was in 2002, planted to super-spindle, trees 2 ft. apart, Nursery B. These grew very well, no problem getting them up to 10 ft., good consistent cropping (probably more carefully hand-thinned), but, the fruit was consistently very green. It was hard to get good red color on it even when the trees were young. Unfortunately I lost this planting to the freak October 2011 snowstorm. I guess my point is I think there is a lot of difference in Honeycrisp budwood, both in terms of fruit color and tree vigor. And 2 ft. is a good spacing for Honeycrisp/Bud9 because it forces you to grow a leader and not branches. Keys to success with Honeycrisp/Bud9? Plant larger trees from the start from a good nursery; plant 2-3 feet apart, 10-12 feet between rows; plant on a better site; plant with the graft union closer to the ground (2-3 inches) than what you might do with EMLA9; install trickle irrigation and fertilize adequately in 1st and 2d leaf; don't crop in 1st and 2nd leaf; focus on growing the leader up ASAP (no big side branches); use Bud9 where winter hardiness and fireblight resistance are a concern, otherwise, consider using EMLA 9. I don't think Bud9 suckers as bad as some EMLA9 clones, and like Tim says, the leaves are pretty... :-) On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 7:04 PM, Steven Bibula sbib...@maine.rr.com wrote: Especially for Jon Clements, but others as well: ** ** Are your initial Honeycrisp/Bud 9 Tall Spindle trials, where you cropped starting in 2nd leaf, agreeing with Mike’s experience? Looking at these trials subsequently, what happened to production? I have a 1,000 tree Honeycrisp/Bud 9 Tall Spindle planting planned for 2015 and this discussion has taken a very interesting turn. ** ** I noticed this year that with my 2nd leaf Snowsweet Tall Spindle on Bud 9, the trees that were fully cropped hardly grew (but produced huge fruit); however, the trees that had no fruit (spotty pollination in southern Maine with nearly continuous rain during bloom) also grew very little. Not one Snowsweet is even close to the top wire, located ~8.5’. We did have four periods of drought-induced stress this year, and the Bud 9 varieties were clearly the most checked. I will have Uniram drip with fertigation for all trees starting in 2014, and I anticipate that this will help ameliorate.** ** ** ** Steven Bibula Plowshares Community Farm 236 Sebago Lake Road Gorham ME 04038 207.239.0442 www.plowsharesmaine.com ** ** *From:* apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] *On Behalf Of *Mike Fargione *Sent:* Friday, October 25, 2013 9:42 AM *To:* jon.cleme...@umass.edu; Apple-crop discussion list *Subject:* Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness ** ** Some growers in NY’s Hudson Valley prefer to plant Honeycrisp on B9 because they feel these trees are less prone to biennial bearing and can be cropped more heavily each year compared with Honeycrisp on M9. Our experience is that planting Honeycrisp/B9 at higher density and not cropping in years 1 2 can produce a very productive orchard. Mike *From:* apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [ mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netapple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] *On Behalf Of *Jon Clements *Sent:* Thursday, October 24, 2013 6:26 PM *To:* Apple-crop discussion list *Subject:* Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness Simple solution -- pre-order and plant them 2 ft. X 10 ft. Will make you, and the nursery, happy...:-) Jon ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness
Some growers in NY's Hudson Valley prefer to plant Honeycrisp on B9 because they feel these trees are less prone to biennial bearing and can be cropped more heavily each year compared with Honeycrisp on M9. Our experience is that planting Honeycrisp/B9 at higher density and not cropping in years 1 2 can produce a very productive orchard. Mike From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Jon Clements Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 6:26 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness Simple solution -- pre-order and plant them 2 ft. X 10 ft. Will make you, and the nursery, happy...:-) Jon On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Kushad, Mosbah M kus...@illinois.edumailto:kus...@illinois.edu wrote: I have had little luck with Gala, Fuji, and Honeycrisp filling their spaces when grafted on Bud 9. Central Illinois has one of the richest soils in the country, but that does not seem to make a difference. Bud 9 reminds me of Mark, it start great, but it slows down considerably after five plus years of growth. Mosbah Kushad, University of Illinois From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Vincent Philion Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 3:53 PM To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness No doubt that B9 is extremely winter hardy. If you pamper those trees so they grow, it could be ok. Our Honeycrisp/B9 never filled their space (12' x 4') Others had good results with that combination = http://www.hrt.msu.edu/assets/PagePDFs/ronald-perry/Rootstocks-for-Honeycrisp2.pdf Vincent On 24oct., 2013, at 16:39, Hugh Thomas hughthoma...@gmail.commailto:hughthoma...@gmail.com wrote: My concerns are winter damage. In the last 80 years here in Western Montana, temps have been recorded to -33F. -20 F is almost guaranteed every year. I see a problem in that snow cover all winter is not common. My first leaf Honeycrisp (planted in April) 1/2 inch trees cut back to about 34 inches are now 6-7 feet, and have outgrown M26 Suncrisp planted at the same time, same conditions. I do keep the nutrients at high levels. Ph is 7.0 to 7.4 with a silt -loam soil at 3300 feet elevation. If I thought Nic29 would take the weather here I would use those. All of your comments are very helpful, please keep them coming, Hugh On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Vincent Philion vincent.phil...@irda.qc.camailto:vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca wrote: Hi! As a plant pathologist, I love B9 because it is tolerant to fireblight. We've grown nice and productive trees on B9. However, I agree with Mr. Norton = our experience with HoneyCrisp/B9 is not a good one. Vincent On 24oct., 2013, at 15:45, dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.commailto:dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.com dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.commailto:dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.com wrote: Hugh, we have been growing Granny Smith, Zestar and Pristine here at Royal Oak Farm on M9 in far northern Illinois for about 4 years now and have had good results. We also have Honeycrisp on Bud9 planted at the same time and they are half the size of the M9. We have decided to not use Bud9 again due to its slow growth pattern for our silty clay loam soil type. Hope this helps! Dennis Norton Royal Oak Farm Orchard 15908 Hebron Rd. Harvard, IL 60033-9357 Office (815) 648-4467tel:%28815%29%20648-4467 Mobile (815) 228-2174tel:%28815%29%20228-2174 Fax (609) 228-2174tel:%28609%29%20228-2174 http://www.royaloakfarmorchard.comhttp://www.royaloakfarmorchard.com/ http://www.theorchardkeeper.blogspot.comhttp://www.theorchardkeeper.blogspot.com/ - Original Message - From: Gary Snydermailto:g...@c-onursery.com To: Apple-crop discussion listmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 12:33 PM Subject: Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness Hugh: According to the Washington Tree Fruit Research Commission M9-Nic29 rootstock is under the category of (fair) for cold hardiness. Their rankings range Tolerant, Good and Fair. Gary Snyder C O Nursery From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:18 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness Does anyone have any experience with the winter hardiness of M9-Nic29 rootstock? ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness
Especially for Jon Clements, but others as well: Are your initial Honeycrisp/Bud 9 Tall Spindle trials, where you cropped starting in 2nd leaf, agreeing with Mike's experience? Looking at these trials subsequently, what happened to production? I have a 1,000 tree Honeycrisp/Bud 9 Tall Spindle planting planned for 2015 and this discussion has taken a very interesting turn. I noticed this year that with my 2nd leaf Snowsweet Tall Spindle on Bud 9, the trees that were fully cropped hardly grew (but produced huge fruit); however, the trees that had no fruit (spotty pollination in southern Maine with nearly continuous rain during bloom) also grew very little. Not one Snowsweet is even close to the top wire, located ~8.5'. We did have four periods of drought-induced stress this year, and the Bud 9 varieties were clearly the most checked. I will have Uniram drip with fertigation for all trees starting in 2014, and I anticipate that this will help ameliorate. Steven Bibula Plowshares Community Farm 236 Sebago Lake Road Gorham ME 04038 207.239.0442 www.plowsharesmaine.com From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Mike Fargione Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 9:42 AM To: jon.cleme...@umass.edu; Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness Some growers in NY's Hudson Valley prefer to plant Honeycrisp on B9 because they feel these trees are less prone to biennial bearing and can be cropped more heavily each year compared with Honeycrisp on M9. Our experience is that planting Honeycrisp/B9 at higher density and not cropping in years 1 2 can produce a very productive orchard. Mike From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Jon Clements Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 6:26 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness Simple solution -- pre-order and plant them 2 ft. X 10 ft. Will make you, and the nursery, happy...:-) Jon ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness
The successful grower I met in Washington irrigates Bud 9 every 5 days. This is under-tree sprinkler irrigation. I do the same and water 1 - 1.5 with each irrigation every five days on average in the summer. If the weather is really hot, say 95F everyday, then I might shorten that to every 4 days. My soil is a silt/loam that has good drainage, high organic matter and holds moisture well. In fact, I was amazed at how much water HC/B9 needs. I believe if you are not irrigating Honeycrisp on Bud 9, you are in trouble. Bud 9 seems to like wet feet, but at the same time the soil needs air. My philosophy is to water an inch plus, and then let that drain down and give the trees a chance to have air for a couple of days, and then do it again. I can see stunting if the trees get dry, as the roots will send a chemical signal to the upper part of the tree and tell it to stop growing. My sense is that Bud 9 has a hair trigger on sending that signal. I just assumed that all orchards back East have irrigation, if not, then I would bet a cheeseburger that this is the problem with runted out Bud 9's. If I had a stunted Bud 9 block, I would get a soil test and a tissue test and POUR the nutrients on the block and NEVER let the trees dry out too far. I would crank up the NPK and minors at the expense of fruit quality for a season and then back off the N for fruiting if the trees recover. My two cents... On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Steven Bibula sbib...@maine.rr.com wrote: Especially for Jon Clements, but others as well: ** ** Are your initial Honeycrisp/Bud 9 Tall Spindle trials, where you cropped starting in 2nd leaf, agreeing with Mike’s experience? Looking at these trials subsequently, what happened to production? I have a 1,000 tree Honeycrisp/Bud 9 Tall Spindle planting planned for 2015 and this discussion has taken a very interesting turn. ** ** I noticed this year that with my 2nd leaf Snowsweet Tall Spindle on Bud 9, the trees that were fully cropped hardly grew (but produced huge fruit); however, the trees that had no fruit (spotty pollination in southern Maine with nearly continuous rain during bloom) also grew very little. Not one Snowsweet is even close to the top wire, located ~8.5’. We did have four periods of drought-induced stress this year, and the Bud 9 varieties were clearly the most checked. I will have Uniram drip with fertigation for all trees starting in 2014, and I anticipate that this will help ameliorate.** ** ** ** Steven Bibula Plowshares Community Farm 236 Sebago Lake Road Gorham ME 04038 207.239.0442 www.plowsharesmaine.com ** ** *From:* apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] *On Behalf Of *Mike Fargione *Sent:* Friday, October 25, 2013 9:42 AM *To:* jon.cleme...@umass.edu; Apple-crop discussion list *Subject:* Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness ** ** Some growers in NY’s Hudson Valley prefer to plant Honeycrisp on B9 because they feel these trees are less prone to biennial bearing and can be cropped more heavily each year compared with Honeycrisp on M9. Our experience is that planting Honeycrisp/B9 at higher density and not cropping in years 1 2 can produce a very productive orchard. Mike *From:* apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [ mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netapple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] *On Behalf Of *Jon Clements *Sent:* Thursday, October 24, 2013 6:26 PM *To:* Apple-crop discussion list *Subject:* Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness Simple solution -- pre-order and plant them 2 ft. X 10 ft. Will make you, and the nursery, happy...:-) Jon ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness
Hugh: According to the Washington Tree Fruit Research Commission M9-Nic29 rootstock is under the category of (fair) for cold hardiness. Their rankings range Tolerant, Good and Fair. Gary Snyder C O Nursery *From:* apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] *On Behalf Of *Hugh Thomas *Sent:* Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:18 AM *To:* Apple-crop discussion list *Subject:* [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness Does anyone have any experience with the winter hardiness of M9-Nic29 rootstock? ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness
Are you really sure you want HoneyCrisp/B9 ? Sounds to me like a combination that will result in trees that won’t grow enough. Vincent Philion IRDA On 24oct., 2013, at 15:12, Hugh Thomas hughthoma...@gmail.commailto:hughthoma...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Gary. If you have any Honeycrisp on Bud 9 please let me know. Looking for 1400 trees 1/2 inch or better if possible... Hugh Thomas 406-214-8461 hughthoma...@gmail.commailto:hughthoma...@gmail.com On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Gary Snyder g...@c-onursery.commailto:g...@c-onursery.com wrote: Hugh: According to the Washington Tree Fruit Research Commission M9-Nic29 rootstock is under the category of (fair) for cold hardiness. Their rankings range Tolerant, Good and Fair. Gary Snyder C O Nursery From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:18 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness Does anyone have any experience with the winter hardiness of M9-Nic29 rootstock? ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc. Microbiologiste/Phytopathologiste (pomiculture) Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment www.irda.qc.cahttp://www.irda.qc.ca Centre de recherche 335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 0G7 vincent.phil...@irda.qc.camailto:vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca Bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 350 Cellulaire: 514-623-8275 Skype: VENTURIA Télécopie: 450 653-1927 Verger expérimental 330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 4P6 Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375 Local pesticide: 450-653-7608 Pour nous trouver, cliquer sur le lien: Laboratoirehttp://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=9609486867104665866q=irda+pfihl=frsll=45.557814,-73.360476sspn=8.87586,1.961403ie=UTF8ll=45.557814,-73.360476spn=0,0z=16 Vergerhttp://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=11405391288824931904q=verger+irdahl=frsll=45.54961,-73.350585sspn=0.012504,0.018389ie=UTF8ll=45.54961,-73.350585spn=0,0z=16 Fiers héritiers du travail des frères Saint-Gabriel: http://arboretum8gabrielis.wordpress.com ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness
Vincent, I planted a few hundred Honeycrisp on Bud 9 last spring and got an average of 46 of leader growth this season. Talking to a large grower in Yakima, Washington last year, he informed me that Bud 9 was his best producer of Honeycrisp, getting 60 + bins per acre. I'm fairly new at this, and you may know much more - please advise... On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 12:19 PM, Vincent Philion vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca wrote: Are you really sure you want HoneyCrisp/B9 ? Sounds to me like a combination that will result in trees that won’t grow enough. Vincent Philion IRDA On 24oct., 2013, at 15:12, Hugh Thomas hughthoma...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Gary. If you have any Honeycrisp on Bud 9 please let me know. Looking for 1400 trees 1/2 inch or better if possible... Hugh Thomas 406-214-8461 hughthoma...@gmail.com On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Gary Snyder g...@c-onursery.com wrote: Hugh: According to the Washington Tree Fruit Research Commission M9-Nic29 rootstock is under the category of (fair) for cold hardiness. Their rankings range Tolerant, Good and Fair. Gary Snyder C O Nursery *From:* apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] *On Behalf Of *Hugh Thomas *Sent:* Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:18 AM *To:* Apple-crop discussion list *Subject:* [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness Does anyone have any experience with the winter hardiness of M9-Nic29 rootstock? ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc. Microbiologiste/Phytopathologiste (pomiculture) Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment www.irda.qc.ca Centre de recherche 335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 0G7 vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca Bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 350 Cellulaire: 514-623-8275 Skype: VENTURIA Télécopie: 450 653-1927 Verger expérimental 330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 4P6 Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375 Local pesticide: 450-653-7608 Pour nous trouver, cliquer sur le lien: Laboratoirehttp://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=9609486867104665866q=irda+pfihl=frsll=45.557814,-73.360476sspn=8.87586,1.961403ie=UTF8ll=45.557814,-73.360476spn=0,0z=16 Vergerhttp://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=11405391288824931904q=verger+irdahl=frsll=45.54961,-73.350585sspn=0.012504,0.018389ie=UTF8ll=45.54961,-73.350585spn=0,0z=16 Fiers héritiers du travail des frères Saint-Gabriel: http://arboretum8gabrielis.wordpress.com ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness
Hugh, we have been growing Granny Smith, Zestar and Pristine here at Royal Oak Farm on M9 in far northern Illinois for about 4 years now and have had good results. We also have Honeycrisp on Bud9 planted at the same time and they are half the size of the M9. We have decided to not use Bud9 again due to its slow growth pattern for our silty clay loam soil type. Hope this helps! Dennis Norton Royal Oak Farm Orchard 15908 Hebron Rd. Harvard, IL 60033-9357 Office (815) 648-4467 Mobile (815) 228-2174 Fax (609) 228-2174 http://www.royaloakfarmorchard.com http://www.theorchardkeeper.blogspot.com - Original Message - From: Gary Snyder To: Apple-crop discussion list Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 12:33 PM Subject: Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness Hugh: According to the Washington Tree Fruit Research Commission M9-Nic29 rootstock is under the category of (fair) for cold hardiness. Their rankings range Tolerant, Good and Fair. Gary Snyder C O Nursery From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:18 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness Does anyone have any experience with the winter hardiness of M9-Nic29 rootstock? -- ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness
Hi! As a plant pathologist, I love B9 because it is tolerant to fireblight. We’ve grown nice and productive trees on B9. However, I agree with Mr. Norton = our experience with HoneyCrisp/B9 is not a good one. Vincent On 24oct., 2013, at 15:45, dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.commailto:dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.com dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.commailto:dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.com wrote: Hugh, we have been growing Granny Smith, Zestar and Pristine here at Royal Oak Farm on M9 in far northern Illinois for about 4 years now and have had good results. We also have Honeycrisp on Bud9 planted at the same time and they are half the size of the M9. We have decided to not use Bud9 again due to its slow growth pattern for our silty clay loam soil type. Hope this helps! Dennis Norton Royal Oak Farm Orchard 15908 Hebron Rd. Harvard, IL 60033-9357 Office (815) 648-4467 Mobile (815) 228-2174 Fax (609) 228-2174 http://www.royaloakfarmorchard.comhttp://www.royaloakfarmorchard.com/ http://www.theorchardkeeper.blogspot.comhttp://www.theorchardkeeper.blogspot.com/ - Original Message - From: Gary Snydermailto:g...@c-onursery.com To: Apple-crop discussion listmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 12:33 PM Subject: Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness Hugh: According to the Washington Tree Fruit Research Commission M9-Nic29 rootstock is under the category of (fair) for cold hardiness. Their rankings range Tolerant, Good and Fair. Gary Snyder C O Nursery From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:18 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness Does anyone have any experience with the winter hardiness of M9-Nic29 rootstock? ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc. Microbiologiste/Phytopathologiste (pomiculture) Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment www.irda.qc.cahttp://www.irda.qc.ca Centre de recherche 335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 0G7 vincent.phil...@irda.qc.camailto:vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca Bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 350 Cellulaire: 514-623-8275 Skype: VENTURIA Télécopie: 450 653-1927 Verger expérimental 330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 4P6 Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375 Local pesticide: 450-653-7608 Pour nous trouver, cliquer sur le lien: Laboratoirehttp://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=9609486867104665866q=irda+pfihl=frsll=45.557814,-73.360476sspn=8.87586,1.961403ie=UTF8ll=45.557814,-73.360476spn=0,0z=16 Vergerhttp://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=11405391288824931904q=verger+irdahl=frsll=45.54961,-73.350585sspn=0.012504,0.018389ie=UTF8ll=45.54961,-73.350585spn=0,0z=16 Fiers héritiers du travail des frères Saint-Gabriel: http://arboretum8gabrielis.wordpress.com ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness
R: winter hardiness of Nic29 /M9: The common problem in the inland Pacific Northwest isn't often from classic, low temperature winter damage. Our more common problems with the M9 clones comes from sudden cold snaps in the fall. The trunks of younger trees on M9 seem slower to develop tolerance for low temperatures in the fall. The latest cold snap was in late November 2010, when regional temperatures stayed up in the 55-60F highs and 45F lows for the weeks before diving down to 8 to18F below zero in 2 days. This did a lot of trunk damage in some orchards, and we are still seeing effects in some orchards. The rootstocks weren't injured at all, and many of them sent up a fringe of collar suckers in response to the trunk injury. One rootstock that sometimes will die from the cold the first few winters, with no cold damage to the scion, is EMLA 106. They become much hardier with age. I believe I have misidentified winter damage as Phytophthora collar rot a few times in orchards on 106. Tim Smith WSU Does anyone have any experience with the winter hardiness of M9-Nic29 rootstock? ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc. Microbiologiste/Phytopathologiste (pomiculture) Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment www.irda.qc.cahttp://www.irda.qc.ca Centre de recherche 335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 0G7 vincent.phil...@irda.qc.camailto:vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca Bureau: 450 653-7368tel:450%20653-7368 poste 350 Cellulaire: 514-623-8275tel:514-623-8275 Skype: VENTURIA Télécopie: 450 653-1927tel:450%20653-1927 Verger expérimental 330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 4P6 Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375tel:450%20653-8375 Local pesticide: 450-653-7608tel:450-653-7608 Pour nous trouver, cliquer sur le lien: Laboratoirehttp://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=9609486867104665866q=irda+pfihl=frsll=45.557814,-73.360476sspn=8.87586,1.961403ie=UTF8ll=45.557814,-73.360476spn=0,0z=16 Vergerhttp://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=11405391288824931904q=verger+irdahl=frsll=45.54961,-73.350585sspn=0.012504,0.018389ie=UTF8ll=45.54961,-73.350585spn=0,0z=16 Fiers héritiers du travail des frères Saint-Gabriel: http://arboretum8gabrielis.wordpress.com ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness
No doubt that B9 is extremely winter hardy. If you pamper those trees so they grow, it could be ok. Our Honeycrisp/B9 never filled their space (12’ x 4’) Others had good results with that combination = http://www.hrt.msu.edu/assets/PagePDFs/ronald-perry/Rootstocks-for-Honeycrisp2.pdf Vincent On 24oct., 2013, at 16:39, Hugh Thomas hughthoma...@gmail.commailto:hughthoma...@gmail.com wrote: My concerns are winter damage. In the last 80 years here in Western Montana, temps have been recorded to -33F. -20 F is almost guaranteed every year. I see a problem in that snow cover all winter is not common. My first leaf Honeycrisp (planted in April) 1/2 inch trees cut back to about 34 inches are now 6-7 feet, and have outgrown M26 Suncrisp planted at the same time, same conditions. I do keep the nutrients at high levels. Ph is 7.0 to 7.4 with a silt -loam soil at 3300 feet elevation. If I thought Nic29 would take the weather here I would use those. All of your comments are very helpful, please keep them coming, Hugh On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Vincent Philion vincent.phil...@irda.qc.camailto:vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca wrote: Hi! As a plant pathologist, I love B9 because it is tolerant to fireblight. We’ve grown nice and productive trees on B9. However, I agree with Mr. Norton = our experience with HoneyCrisp/B9 is not a good one. Vincent On 24oct., 2013, at 15:45, dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.commailto:dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.com dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.commailto:dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.com wrote: Hugh, we have been growing Granny Smith, Zestar and Pristine here at Royal Oak Farm on M9 in far northern Illinois for about 4 years now and have had good results. We also have Honeycrisp on Bud9 planted at the same time and they are half the size of the M9. We have decided to not use Bud9 again due to its slow growth pattern for our silty clay loam soil type. Hope this helps! Dennis Norton Royal Oak Farm Orchard 15908 Hebron Rd. Harvard, IL 60033-9357 Office (815) 648-4467tel:%28815%29%20648-4467 Mobile (815) 228-2174tel:%28815%29%20228-2174 Fax (609) 228-2174tel:%28609%29%20228-2174 http://www.royaloakfarmorchard.comhttp://www.royaloakfarmorchard.com/ http://www.theorchardkeeper.blogspot.comhttp://www.theorchardkeeper.blogspot.com/ - Original Message - From: Gary Snydermailto:g...@c-onursery.com To: Apple-crop discussion listmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 12:33 PM Subject: Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness Hugh: According to the Washington Tree Fruit Research Commission M9-Nic29 rootstock is under the category of (fair) for cold hardiness. Their rankings range Tolerant, Good and Fair. Gary Snyder C O Nursery From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:18 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness Does anyone have any experience with the winter hardiness of M9-Nic29 rootstock? ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc. Microbiologiste/Phytopathologiste (pomiculture) Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment www.irda.qc.cahttp://www.irda.qc.ca/ Centre de recherche 335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 0G7 vincent.phil...@irda.qc.camailto:vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca Bureau: 450 653-7368tel:450%20653-7368 poste 350 Cellulaire: 514-623-8275tel:514-623-8275 Skype: VENTURIA Télécopie: 450 653-1927tel:450%20653-1927 Verger expérimental 330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 4P6 Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375tel:450%20653-8375 Local pesticide: 450-653-7608tel:450-653-7608 Pour nous trouver, cliquer sur le lien: Laboratoirehttp://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=9609486867104665866q=irda+pfihl=frsll=45.557814,-73.360476sspn=8.87586,1.961403ie=UTF8ll=45.557814,-73.360476spn=0,0z=16 Vergerhttp://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=11405391288824931904q=verger+irdahl=frsll=45.54961,-73.350585sspn=0.012504,0.018389ie=UTF8ll=45.54961,-73.350585spn=0,0z=16 Fiers héritiers du travail des frères Saint-Gabriel: http://arboretum8gabrielis.wordpress.comhttp://arboretum8gabrielis.wordpress.com/ ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http
Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness
Tim, Any observations / knowledge / experience with Bud 9 during the cold snap of 2010? On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Smith, Timothy J smit...@wsu.edu wrote: R: winter hardiness of Nic29 /M9: ** ** The common problem in the inland Pacific Northwest isn’t often from classic, low temperature winter damage. Our more common problems with the M9 clones comes from sudden “cold snaps” in the fall. The trunks of younger trees on M9 seem slower to develop tolerance for low temperatures in the fall. The latest cold snap was in late November 2010, when regional temperatures stayed up in the 55-60F highs and 45F lows for the weeks before diving down to 8 to18F below zero in 2 days. This did a lot of trunk damage in some orchards, and we are still seeing effects in some orchards. The rootstocks weren’t injured at all, and many of them sent up a fringe of collar suckers in response to the trunk injury. ** ** One rootstock that sometimes will die from the cold the first few winters, with no cold damage to the scion, is EMLA 106. They become much hardier with age. I believe I have misidentified winter damage as Phytophthora collar rot a few times in orchards on 106. ** ** Tim Smith WSU Does anyone have any experience with the winter hardiness of M9-Nic29 rootstock? ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ** ** ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ** ** Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc. Microbiologiste/Phytopathologiste (pomiculture) ** ** Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment ** ** www.irda.qc.ca ** ** Centre de recherche 335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 0G7 vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca Bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 350 Cellulaire: 514-623-8275 Skype: VENTURIA Télécopie: 450 653-1927 ** ** Verger expérimental 330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 4P6 Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375 Local pesticide: 450-653-7608 ** ** Pour nous trouver, cliquer sur le lien: Laboratoirehttp://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=9609486867104665866q=irda+pfihl=frsll=45.557814,-73.360476sspn=8.87586,1.961403ie=UTF8ll=45.557814,-73.360476spn=0,0z=16 Vergerhttp://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=11405391288824931904q=verger+irdahl=frsll=45.54961,-73.350585sspn=0.012504,0.018389ie=UTF8ll=45.54961,-73.350585spn=0,0z=16 ** ** Fiers héritiers du travail des frères Saint-Gabriel: http://arboretum8gabrielis.wordpress.com ** ** ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ** ** ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness
There were no complaints about Bud9 hardiness or trunk damage on trees with that rootstock. It has a reputation as being hardy, but we can't use it on old soils, because it is very susceptible to replant disease. It runts out and eventually dies.It does better on deep soil in new orchard sites. B9 grows root suckers more than most other apple rootstocks, but the suckers are a pretty red color, which adds to the joy of being in the orchard. Tim From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 1:54 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness Tim, Any observations / knowledge / experience with Bud 9 during the cold snap of 2010? On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Smith, Timothy J smit...@wsu.edumailto:smit...@wsu.edu wrote: R: winter hardiness of Nic29 /M9: The common problem in the inland Pacific Northwest isn't often from classic, low temperature winter damage. Our more common problems with the M9 clones comes from sudden cold snaps in the fall. The trunks of younger trees on M9 seem slower to develop tolerance for low temperatures in the fall. The latest cold snap was in late November 2010, when regional temperatures stayed up in the 55-60F highs and 45F lows for the weeks before diving down to 8 to18F below zero in 2 days. This did a lot of trunk damage in some orchards, and we are still seeing effects in some orchards. The rootstocks weren't injured at all, and many of them sent up a fringe of collar suckers in response to the trunk injury. One rootstock that sometimes will die from the cold the first few winters, with no cold damage to the scion, is EMLA 106. They become much hardier with age. I believe I have misidentified winter damage as Phytophthora collar rot a few times in orchards on 106. Tim Smith WSU Does anyone have any experience with the winter hardiness of M9-Nic29 rootstock? ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc. Microbiologiste/Phytopathologiste (pomiculture) Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment www.irda.qc.cahttp://www.irda.qc.ca Centre de recherche 335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 0G7 vincent.phil...@irda.qc.camailto:vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca Bureau: 450 653-7368tel:450%20653-7368 poste 350 Cellulaire: 514-623-8275tel:514-623-8275 Skype: VENTURIA Télécopie: 450 653-1927tel:450%20653-1927 Verger expérimental 330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 4P6 Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375tel:450%20653-8375 Local pesticide: 450-653-7608tel:450-653-7608 Pour nous trouver, cliquer sur le lien: Laboratoirehttp://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=9609486867104665866q=irda+pfihl=frsll=45.557814,-73.360476sspn=8.87586,1.961403ie=UTF8ll=45.557814,-73.360476spn=0,0z=16 Vergerhttp://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=11405391288824931904q=verger+irdahl=frsll=45.54961,-73.350585sspn=0.012504,0.018389ie=UTF8ll=45.54961,-73.350585spn=0,0z=16 Fiers héritiers du travail des frères Saint-Gabriel: http://arboretum8gabrielis.wordpress.com ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness
Hugh; We are completely sold out of Honeycrisp on Bud 9 for 2014. Very large waiting list also for this combination also. Some people like it and others do not. If you grow the tree first, then start to crop it you should have minimal problem. Some growers have a problem filling the space which can be overcome by not cropping the tree to early and tightening up the spacing. Gary *From:* apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] *On Behalf Of *Hugh Thomas *Sent:* Thursday, October 24, 2013 12:13 PM *To:* Apple-crop discussion list *Subject:* Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness Thanks Gary. If you have any Honeycrisp on Bud 9 please let me know. Looking for 1400 trees 1/2 inch or better if possible... Hugh Thomas 406-214-8461 hughthoma...@gmail.com On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Gary Snyder g...@c-onursery.com wrote: Hugh: According to the Washington Tree Fruit Research Commission M9-Nic29 rootstock is under the category of (fair) for cold hardiness. Their rankings range Tolerant, Good and Fair. Gary Snyder C O Nursery *From:* apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] *On Behalf Of *Hugh Thomas *Sent:* Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:18 AM *To:* Apple-crop discussion list *Subject:* [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness Does anyone have any experience with the winter hardiness of M9-Nic29 rootstock? ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness
My first experiment with apple trees was the spring of 2012. I planted 500 trees, mostly on bud 9. I didn't do a soil test before planting as the USDA rates the soil here as being prime farm land with a Ph of 7. I planted and used a NPK slow release (Osmocote). The next year, before my next planting of 1100 trees (mostly bud 9) I did a soil test and found I was low on Boron,copper, Zinc and sulfates. I have since paid very close attention to the nutrient levels (tissue testing) and keep the levels way up. What I have found is that the new planting is nearly as big as the first planting, and it looks like some of the Bud 9 trees from the first year may runt out. My take away from this is that Bud 9 trees need high levels of nutrients to push them along in the early years, and may never recover if they lack plenty of food. I plant 3x12 and see no problem at all with filling the space. Fingers are crossed. On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 2:16 PM, Smith, Timothy J smit...@wsu.edu wrote: There were no complaints about Bud9 hardiness or trunk damage on trees with that rootstock. It has a reputation as being hardy, but we can’t use it on “old” soils, because it is very susceptible to replant disease. It runts out and eventually dies.It does better on deep soil in new orchard sites. B9 grows root suckers more than most other apple rootstocks, but the suckers are a pretty red color, which adds to the joy of being in the orchard. ** ** Tim ** ** *From:* apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] *On Behalf Of *Hugh Thomas *Sent:* Thursday, October 24, 2013 1:54 PM *To:* Apple-crop discussion list *Subject:* Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness ** ** Tim, Any observations / knowledge / experience with Bud 9 during the cold snap of 2010? ** ** On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Smith, Timothy J smit...@wsu.edu wrote: R: winter hardiness of Nic29 /M9: The common problem in the inland Pacific Northwest isn’t often from classic, low temperature winter damage. Our more common problems with the M9 clones comes from sudden “cold snaps” in the fall. The trunks of younger trees on M9 seem slower to develop tolerance for low temperatures in the fall. The latest cold snap was in late November 2010, when regional temperatures stayed up in the 55-60F highs and 45F lows for the weeks before diving down to 8 to18F below zero in 2 days. This did a lot of trunk damage in some orchards, and we are still seeing effects in some orchards. The rootstocks weren’t injured at all, and many of them sent up a fringe of collar suckers in response to the trunk injury. One rootstock that sometimes will die from the cold the first few winters, with no cold damage to the scion, is EMLA 106. They become much hardier with age. I believe I have misidentified winter damage as Phytophthora collar rot a few times in orchards on 106. Tim Smith WSU ** ** Does anyone have any experience with the winter hardiness of M9-Nic29 rootstock? ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc. Microbiologiste/Phytopathologiste (pomiculture) Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment www.irda.qc.ca Centre de recherche 335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 0G7 vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca Bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 350 Cellulaire: 514-623-8275 Skype: VENTURIA Télécopie: 450 653-1927 Verger expérimental 330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 4P6 Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375 Local pesticide: 450-653-7608 Pour nous trouver, cliquer sur le lien: Laboratoirehttp://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=9609486867104665866q=irda+pfihl=frsll=45.557814,-73.360476sspn=8.87586,1.961403ie=UTF8ll=45.557814,-73.360476spn=0,0z=16 Vergerhttp://maps.google.ca/maps/place?cid=11405391288824931904q=verger+irdahl=frsll=45.54961,-73.350585sspn=0.012504,0.018389ie=UTF8ll=45.54961,-73.350585spn=0,0z=16 Fiers héritiers du travail des frères Saint-Gabriel: http://arboretum8gabrielis.wordpress.com ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness
Simple solution -- pre-order and plant them 2 ft. X 10 ft. Will make you, and the nursery, happy...:-) Jon On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Kushad, Mosbah M kus...@illinois.eduwrote: I have had little luck with Gala, Fuji, and Honeycrisp filling their spaces when grafted on Bud 9. Central Illinois has one of the richest soils in the country, but that does not seem to make a difference. Bud 9 reminds me of Mark, it start great, but it slows down considerably after five plus years of growth. Mosbah Kushad, University of Illinois ** ** *From:* apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] *On Behalf Of *Vincent Philion *Sent:* Thursday, October 24, 2013 3:53 PM *To:* Apple-Crop *Subject:* Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness ** ** No doubt that B9 is extremely winter hardy. ** ** If you pamper those trees so they grow, it could be ok. ** ** Our Honeycrisp/B9 never filled their space (12’ x 4’) ** ** Others had good results with that combination = ** ** http://www.hrt.msu.edu/assets/PagePDFs/ronald-perry/Rootstocks-for-Honeycrisp2.pdf ** ** Vincent ** ** On 24oct., 2013, at 16:39, Hugh Thomas hughthoma...@gmail.com wrote: My concerns are winter damage. In the last 80 years here in Western Montana, temps have been recorded to -33F. -20 F is almost guaranteed every year. I see a problem in that snow cover all winter is not common. My first leaf Honeycrisp (planted in April) 1/2 inch trees cut back to about 34 inches are now 6-7 feet, and have outgrown M26 Suncrisp planted at the same time, same conditions. I do keep the nutrients at high levels. Ph is 7.0 to 7.4 with a silt -loam soil at 3300 feet elevation. If I thought Nic29 would take the weather here I would use those. All of your comments are very helpful, please keep them coming, Hugh ** ** On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Vincent Philion vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca wrote: Hi! As a plant pathologist, I love B9 because it is tolerant to fireblight. We’ve grown nice and productive trees on B9. However, I agree with Mr. Norton = our experience with HoneyCrisp/B9 is not a good one. ** ** Vincent ** ** On 24oct., 2013, at 15:45, dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.com dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.com wrote: Hugh, we have been growing Granny Smith, Zestar and Pristine here at Royal Oak Farm on M9 in far northern Illinois for about 4 years now and have had good results. We also have Honeycrisp on Bud9 planted at the same time and they are half the size of the M9. We have decided to not use Bud9 again due to its slow growth pattern for our silty clay loam soil type. Hope this helps! Dennis Norton Royal Oak Farm Orchard 15908 Hebron Rd. Harvard, IL 60033-9357 Office (815) 648-4467 Mobile (815) 228-2174 Fax (609) 228-2174 http://www.royaloakfarmorchard.com http://www.theorchardkeeper.blogspot.com - Original Message - *From:* Gary Snyder g...@c-onursery.com *To:* Apple-crop discussion list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net *Sent:* Thursday, October 24, 2013 12:33 PM *Subject:* Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness ** ** Hugh: According to the Washington Tree Fruit Research Commission M9-Nic29 rootstock is under the category of (fair) for cold hardiness. Their rankings range Tolerant, Good and Fair. Gary Snyder C O Nursery *From:* apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] *On Behalf Of *Hugh Thomas *Sent:* Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:18 AM *To:* Apple-crop discussion list *Subject:* [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness Does anyone have any experience with the winter hardiness of M9-Nic29 rootstock? ** ** -- ** ** ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ** ** Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc. Microbiologiste/Phytopathologiste (pomiculture) ** ** Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment ** ** www.irda.qc.ca ** ** Centre de recherche 335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 0G7 vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca Bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 350 Cellulaire: 514-623-8275 Skype: VENTURIA Télécopie: 450 653-1927 ** ** Verger expérimental 330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 4P6 Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375 Local
Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness
I worked in Florida as a horticulturalist for ten years and in California for twenty. I found that even though parts of Florida and parts of California had the same climate zones, many things would not grow in both areas. For example, the plant, Croton, (Codiaeum variegatum) a common house plant will grow like crazy outdoors in Miami, it will not grow at all outdoors in San Diego. Some parts of San Diego have never had a freeze (Miami has) but Croton will not grow outdoors there. Italian cypress grows like crazy in Southern California, but does poorly in Florida. Summer is tomato time in California, but in Florida, tomatoes are a fall or early spring crop. I believe it is possible (gut feeling here) that Bud 9 does best with cool summer nights. The Pacific Northwest has cool summer nights whereas the East and midwest have warm summer nights. Here in Montana we commonly have 90 degree highs in the summer with a 35-40 degree drop at night. I found this to be the answer to the growing differences between Florida and California. Where many assume it is humidity - not so- as I have seen cool nights in humid greenhouses in California have the same limiting effect. My thoughts... On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 3:25 PM, Jon Clements jon.cleme...@umass.eduwrote: Simple solution -- pre-order and plant them 2 ft. X 10 ft. Will make you, and the nursery, happy...:-) Jon On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Kushad, Mosbah M kus...@illinois.eduwrote: I have had little luck with Gala, Fuji, and Honeycrisp filling their spaces when grafted on Bud 9. Central Illinois has one of the richest soils in the country, but that does not seem to make a difference. Bud 9 reminds me of Mark, it start great, but it slows down considerably after five plus years of growth. Mosbah Kushad, University of Illinois ** ** *From:* apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] *On Behalf Of *Vincent Philion *Sent:* Thursday, October 24, 2013 3:53 PM *To:* Apple-Crop *Subject:* Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness ** ** No doubt that B9 is extremely winter hardy. ** ** If you pamper those trees so they grow, it could be ok. ** ** Our Honeycrisp/B9 never filled their space (12’ x 4’) ** ** Others had good results with that combination = ** ** http://www.hrt.msu.edu/assets/PagePDFs/ronald-perry/Rootstocks-for-Honeycrisp2.pdf ** ** Vincent ** ** On 24oct., 2013, at 16:39, Hugh Thomas hughthoma...@gmail.com wrote:*** * My concerns are winter damage. In the last 80 years here in Western Montana, temps have been recorded to -33F. -20 F is almost guaranteed every year. I see a problem in that snow cover all winter is not common. My first leaf Honeycrisp (planted in April) 1/2 inch trees cut back to about 34 inches are now 6-7 feet, and have outgrown M26 Suncrisp planted at the same time, same conditions. I do keep the nutrients at high levels. Ph is 7.0 to 7.4 with a silt -loam soil at 3300 feet elevation. If I thought Nic29 would take the weather here I would use those. All of your comments are very helpful, please keep them coming, Hugh ** ** On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Vincent Philion vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca wrote: Hi! As a plant pathologist, I love B9 because it is tolerant to fireblight. We’ve grown nice and productive trees on B9. However, I agree with Mr. Norton = our experience with HoneyCrisp/B9 is not a good one.*** * ** ** Vincent ** ** On 24oct., 2013, at 15:45, dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.com dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.com wrote: Hugh, we have been growing Granny Smith, Zestar and Pristine here at Royal Oak Farm on M9 in far northern Illinois for about 4 years now and have had good results. We also have Honeycrisp on Bud9 planted at the same time and they are half the size of the M9. We have decided to not use Bud9 again due to its slow growth pattern for our silty clay loam soil type. Hope this helps! Dennis Norton Royal Oak Farm Orchard 15908 Hebron Rd. Harvard, IL 60033-9357 Office (815) 648-4467 Mobile (815) 228-2174 Fax (609) 228-2174 http://www.royaloakfarmorchard.com http://www.theorchardkeeper.blogspot.com - Original Message - *From:* Gary Snyder g...@c-onursery.com *To:* Apple-crop discussion list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net *Sent:* Thursday, October 24, 2013 12:33 PM *Subject:* Re: [apple-crop] M9-Nic29 winter hardiness ** ** Hugh: According to the Washington Tree Fruit Research Commission M9-Nic29 rootstock is under the category of (fair) for cold hardiness. Their rankings range Tolerant, Good and Fair. Gary Snyder C O Nursery *From:* apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] *On Behalf Of *Hugh Thomas *Sent:* Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:18 AM
