Re: [Assam] NEINAD ( North-East Indian Network for Academic Discourse )
Dear Buljit: Thank you so much for making us aware of NEINAD. It is a truly impressive achievement and has the potential to have very important social and intellectual impact. Best - Santanu Roy. From: assam [assam-boun...@assamnet.org] on behalf of Buljit Buragohain [buluas...@yahoo.co.in] Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 7:16 PM To: xo...@googlegroups.com; assam@assamnet.org; friendsofassa...@yahoogroups.com; northeastin...@yahoogroups.com; silc...@yahoogroups.com; axomiya_stude...@yahoogroups.com; assamsoci...@yahoogroups.com Cc: dilipbora...@gmail.com; anuradhaa...@gmail.com Subject: [Assam] NEINAD ( North-East Indian Network for Academic Discourse ) NEINAD নিনাদ ( North-East Indian Network for Academic Discourse ) came into inception in the year 1986 with the earnest initiatives taken by a group of enthusiastic and socially conscious students of Gauhati University. It was a period much ruffled by the aftermath of historic Assam Movement. The socio-political life of the state was yet to be settled. Indeed it was a period of social, cultural and intellectual stagnancy. Raising NEINAD at that hour of disarray was really an audacious effort to continue the free atmosphere for open thought and expression. This group of students as a first step towards their aspired goal, published a journal entitled ‘Neinad’ with their own sheer effort. The moto behind the whole journey was to facilitate and uplift the intellectual and academic atmosphere of the state. It is to be noted that at that latent period they even organized seminars and workshops on varied national and international issues. Since then it has successfully been a platform for free expression for the cause of socio-cultural integrity, democracy, secularism and humanism. And very recently in 2010 ‘NEINAD’ was reorganized as NEINAD (North-East India Network for Academic Discourse) NEINAD has been regularly publishing one international journal ‘The Marginal Voice’ in English and one national journal ‘Prantra Swar’ both in Hindi and Assamese. The repertoire of its publications so far has received national and international acclaim with its gradually expanding releam of readers and contributors from Assam, India, South-East Asian countries and other parts of the would. Address : North-East Indian Network for Academic Discourse Department of M.I.L. Gauhati University Guwahati - 781 014, Assam, India Phone : +91 361 26 72 930 Mobile : +91 94 35 03 1064 +91 94 35 55 2035 E-mail : dilipbora...@gmail.com anuradhaa...@gmail.com Website : www.neinad.com -- সমাজৰ কাৰণে ভাল কাম কৰাজনৰ পৰিচয় ৰাইজৰ আগত দাঙি ধৰিব লাগে আৰু ভাল খবৰবোৰ যিমান পাৰি ৰাইজৰ মাজত বিলাব লাগে। বুলজিৎ বুঢ়াগোহাঁই ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] A smile
[https://sphotos-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/539671_330074763714752_1669718104_n.jpg] .___ ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Hot News from USA
Dilip-da: I agree with you about the general apathy towards science, but there is something more too - a hostility towards science in the minds of the religious fringe (quite a large fringe). They truly believe it to be a dark art and would like to retain some political control over it. Having these kind of representatives provides some form of assurance to this section of the population, and allows government to function with less friction. As long as these representatives are sufficiently corrupt to compromise on their principles (they always are), they do serve a useful purpose. The crazies must feel included. Santanu. From: assam [assam-boun...@assamnet.org] on behalf of Dilip Deka [dilipd...@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 7:46 AM To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world Subject: Re: [Assam] Hot News from USA Think of the reason why the science committee gets such members. To start with, science is not an attractive subject in USA. So, anything to do with science gets lower ranking than say economy, finance, health,social security etc. Thus, the science committee does not attract the star players. The rejects who do not get selected to any other committee opt for the likes of science committee.The common man does not care what rubbish the science committee puts out or what the members utter in the name of science. The importance of a committee is measured in terms of how many dollars it influences. Dilip === --- On Tue, 11/13/12, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: From: Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Assam] Hot News from USA To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world assam@assamnet.org Date: Tuesday, November 13, 2012, 9:42 PM If it is not theater of the absurd, I can't imagine what would be! Faat diya boxumoti paatale' lukaon! ( Please Mother earth, split asunder, so I can hide from this shame). On Nov 13, 2012, at 9:35 PM, amlan saha a.s...@alumni.tufts.edu wrote: Ah, the ever amusing Science Committee, which counts among its members the likes of - *Todd Akin* - If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.” - *Paul Broun* - “All that stuff I was taught about evolution and embryology and the Big Bang Theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of Hell,” - *Roscoe Bartlett* - “There are very few pregnancies as a result of rape, fortunately, and incest — compared to the usual abortion, what is the percentage of abortions for rape? It is tiny. It is a tiny, tiny percentage.” - *Randy Neugebauer* - join together in prayer to humbly seek fair weather conditions” after several destructive tornadoes and droughts. - *Dana Rohrabacher* - “We don’t know what those other cycles [of global warming] were caused by in the past. Could be dinosaur flatulence, you know, or who knows?” - *Jim Sensenbrenner* - railed against scientific fascism and called climate change research an international conspiracy. - *Sandy Adams* - voted in favor of a bill to teach theories that contradict the theory of evolution. Rohrabacher and Sensenbrenner are now in the running to take the gavel of the Committee in the 113th Congress! On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:05 PM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: He is still a Congressman you know, lame duck as he is. But it is appalling to see the pea-brained people that are in the Science Subcommittee. It is a pathetic joke. On Nov 13, 2012, at 7:02 PM, Alpana B. Sarangapani absarangap...@hotmail.com wrote: I meant - if it were a hot topic, then!. : ) I can see why Bobby Jindal is urging HIS people to “stop being the stupid party” . What about him, in spite of being Rhodes Scholar being a gung-ho supporter of the NRA? I thought Todd Akin lost. Can he still serve at a (any) Congressional Committee? Sent from my iPad On Nov 13, 2012, at 3:20 PM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: I didn't get that, A. On Nov 13, 2012, at 3:14 PM, Alpana B. Sarangapani absarangap...@hotmail.com wrote: But that would have made India's cases similar to that, stronger, don't you think, C-da? : ) Sent from my iPhone On Nov 13, 2012, at 2:58 PM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: Oh, darn A! Looks like I had been losing sleep over nothing. But anyway, it was fun reading about it. Where else can we get such interesting news from? I mean other than Missouri. Did you know our very own Todd Akin serves at the Congressional Science Sub-committee? I can see why Bobby Jindal is urging HIS people to “stop being the stupid party” . Used to think that India had problems, you know?
Re: [Assam] Hot News from USA
Hi Chandan-da, Of course, it has a huge downside. As a whole, federal spending on research has suffered huge cuts over the years. It is the easiest to cut; there is no clear political constituency that objects (unless it is funding for military purposes that come with huge kick backs). The allocation of this spending has also been suboptimal as the lack of funding for stem cell research suggests, but the actual impact of that pales in comparison to the impact of shrinking research budget size. Research and higher education have been the primary engines of US prosperity and growth; but more than that, the US leadership here has defined the frontier for the rest of the world for about a century (most of the world has been free riding in a sense). As the US declines, its profitable economic activities might move elsewhere;, but I see no hope that achievements in basic research will be taken up by any of the rising Asian stars. It is much easier for other economies to adopt technology, to do product and process innovation, to apply basic research and make money. It is much harder to build up institutions that create incentives for doing seemingly useless fundamental research. Yet the latter is the foundation on which all technological progress rests. The epoch of western civilization - white peoples' intellectual journey - that began in the Italian city states in the middle ages may finally be coming to an end; the emegence of darkness in the minds of its last frontier in America may simply be a reflection of that. Santanu. -Original Message- From: assam [mailto:assam-boun...@assamnet.org] On Behalf Of Chan Mahanta Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 8:55 AM To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world Subject: Re: [Assam] Hot News from USA Never thought of it that way Santanu. While it does make some profoundly cynical sense, there is a downside to it though: Because these are the people who control the hearings and the pathway to funding of basic research and higher education that the Govt. must do and private enterprise won't. On Nov 14, 2012, at 8:01 AM, Roy, Santanu s...@mail.smu.edu wrote: Dilip-da: I agree with you about the general apathy towards science, but there is something more too - a hostility towards science in the minds of the religious fringe (quite a large fringe). They truly believe it to be a dark art and would like to retain some political control over it. Having these kind of representatives provides some form of assurance to this section of the population, and allows government to function with less friction. As long as these representatives are sufficiently corrupt to compromise on their principles (they always are), they do serve a useful purpose. The crazies must feel included. Santanu. From: assam [assam-boun...@assamnet.org] on behalf of Dilip Deka [dilipd...@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 7:46 AM To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world Subject: Re: [Assam] Hot News from USA Think of the reason why the science committee gets such members. To start with, science is not an attractive subject in USA. So, anything to do with science gets lower ranking than say economy, finance, health,social security etc. Thus, the science committee does not attract the star players. The rejects who do not get selected to any other committee opt for the likes of science committee.The common man does not care what rubbish the science committee puts out or what the members utter in the name of science. The importance of a committee is measured in terms of how many dollars it influences. Dilip == = --- On Tue, 11/13/12, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: From: Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Assam] Hot News from USA To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world assam@assamnet.org Date: Tuesday, November 13, 2012, 9:42 PM If it is not theater of the absurd, I can't imagine what would be! Faat diya boxumoti paatale' lukaon! ( Please Mother earth, split asunder, so I can hide from this shame). On Nov 13, 2012, at 9:35 PM, amlan saha a.s...@alumni.tufts.edu wrote: Ah, the ever amusing Science Committee, which counts among its members the likes of - *Todd Akin* - If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. - *Paul Broun* - All that stuff I was taught about evolution and embryology and the Big Bang Theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of Hell, - *Roscoe Bartlett* - There are very few pregnancies as a result of rape, fortunately, and incest - compared to the usual abortion, what is the percentage of abortions for rape? It is tiny. It is a tiny, tiny percentage. - *Randy
Re: [Assam] Beekeeping at the Mahanta Apiary
C-da: This is delightful! Three years of aging, did you say? I think you should be prepared for a run on your mead. Waiting eagerly for further posts - Santanu. From: assam-boun...@assamnet.org [assam-boun...@assamnet.org] on behalf of Chan Mahanta [cmaha...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 4:30 PM To: Utpal Brahma; A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world Subject: [Assam] Beekeeping at the Mahanta Apiary Now that you asked Utpal :-): It has been quite an awesome journey for me since I took up beekeeping in the spring of 2010. Some of you read about the emotionally roller-coasting experiences: The loss of a queen, laying-worker colony, destruction of the colony, replacement with a new starter in early summer and so forth. Anyway, I managed to get two good colonies going thru the fall of 2010, overwintered them successfully, started the spring of 2011 with two solid colonies ready for the spring honey collection. I split off some combs from both the two strong colonies and made a third one with a new queen purchased thru our bee-club. The two older colonies started collecting honey in earnest as soon as the nectar-flow began and the third built up strength to join in the effort early in summer. I extracted my first honey during the Memorial-day weekend of ( last one of May) of 2011, and kept harvesting until mid-July. I extracted 327 lbs. of honey by the time I stopped. That was much more than my wildest expectations. Samples of our bounty traveled across the continent and beyond the oceans, all the way to Assam. I sold some too. But UPS got a whole lot more on shipping costs than my sales could make up for. My mentor in the club told me that our crop was much, much above the average yield of the club members. I attribute that to the strength of the colonies -- all the hard work paid off-- and the abundance of nectar in our environs. As if all that was not enough, I took up mead making. Mead is wine made from honey and is the earliest form of wine that humans ever brewed. Soma is speculated to be honey-wine, as was the Greeks' Ambrosia. 8 thousand year old Egyptian honey-wine remains have been discovered in the Pyramids. More recently, the merrymaking libations supplied by Friar Tuck to Robin Hood and and his band was mead. So, as you can see, mead has a sweet and intoxicating history. I used 15 lbs. of my finest clover honey to start a batch of 5 gallons of mead on New Years day, 2012. Today I am cleaning salvaged wine bottles to bottle 4.5 gallons of our very drinkable mead. It tastes like semi-sweet Riesling. If you pay us a visit, we shall break bread, or more precisely, partake of maasor-tenga with a fine bottle of Mahanta Mead of the Ole Jamestown Apiary, 2011 vintage. Experts say, however, that mead should be aged at least a year for it to taste good, better still with about three years of aging. I doubt my 4.5 gallons will last that long. That was the good news. My bees ran into trouble in the summer of 2012. By the end of fall I lost three of my hives. Only one overwintered successfully, but that hive got diseased by March, and after returning from Assam by the last week of March, I was without a single hive. It was devastating. The roller-coaster never seems to end. Next: A renewed Attempt at Rebuilding and Trapping Feral Swarms. c-da On Jun 3, 2012, at 3:26 PM, Utpal Brahma wrote: But Chandanda, Your Bee story was awsome. I -- nay am sure we -- look forward to reading more of it. Perhaps even some Hollywood producers can pick it up and make a new Blockbuster The Bee Story much like The Antz or The Toy Story. Very curious to know how is your Bee adventure going on . Utpal From: Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world assam@assamnet.org Sent: Sunday, June 3, 2012 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] misuse of this mailing list That was perceptive of you Sushanta. Manoj, I know Bhuban Kokaideu, nearly 80, very well. He is from Namti, same place I grew up in. Worked for BBC for a long time and lives with his family at London and in Spain parts of the year. Jyotirmay does have a point. But I am quite sure BK has been doing what he has been, in his way of keeping the semblance of a life ticking in this net. I used to be a major trouble-maker in Assamnet. But I have gotten tired of the same old, same old, even though I am open to lighting small fires now and then. Unfortunately one or two participants cannot really generate a meaningful discourse. There is a dearth of participants, perhaps due to apathy, perhaps due to a lingering fear of speaking openly and frankly and perhaps because of a weariness, like yours truly's. Even though I have a nominal presence in Facebook, I rarely participate there either. So my absence from this net has had
[Assam] From the Hindu
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/article3466554.ece#.T8ZClV4fjHw.email ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] The Rorschach Effect in Indian Politics
Nice piece. It is always so easy to view the problem of corruption related ills as one of personal morality; that it happens because the people who have discretionary power, particularly politicians, are fundamentally bad people. If they are replaced by good people, the outcome will be fundamentally different. It is this view that gets the urban middle class so excited about the Hazare-like premises. I have tried to understand why this seems to be a collective social view, though individually almost all of us have the basic intelligence to understand the time immemorial adage that one who goes to Lanka, shall become a Ravan. Quite apart from the fact that reforming Lanka is nowhere as entertaining or appealing as burning Ravan, it reflects a fundamental desire in us to differentiate ourselves - they are the bad guys so they bring misery, I am good, if I were there, I would perform differently; I or someone like I can do it. By saying this, I exult my moral superiority. It is so easy to sell this creed to I. You?, well I am not so sure about you :-). Santanu. From: assam-boun...@assamnet.org [assam-boun...@assamnet.org] on behalf of Altaf Mazid [altafma...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:31 AM To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world Subject: [Assam] The Rorschach Effect in Indian Politics The Rorschach Effect in Indian Politics By Amit Varma http://in.news.yahoo.com/blogs/opinions/rorschach-effect-indian-politics-053923332.html ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] (no subject)
Sent from my iPhone ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 20th Anniversary
Dear Debu, That was a great milestone! It also reminds many of us of our younger days. Thanks to you for the beginning and thanks to those who carry the torch forward - Santanu. -Original Message- From: assam-boun...@assamnet.org [mailto:assam-boun...@assamnet.org] On Behalf Of Medhi, Deep Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 12:48 PM To: (assam@assamnet.org) Subject: [Assam] 20th Anniversary Today happens to be the 20th anniversary of the erstwhile luitoria mailing list that began on my computer aazoli.cstp.umkc.edu. I'm posting below the original message. Back then some people were on BitNet, which doesn't exist anymore. We could send to bitnet addresses by using a gateway. Also, the via address % concept is no longer allowed (mostly for security reason). - DM From dme...@aazoli.cstp.umkc.edu Thu Nov 15 15:52:41 1990 Date: Thu, 15 Nov 90 15:44:35 -0600 From: dme...@aazoli.cstp.umkc.edu (Deep Medhi) To: luitpo...@aazoli.cstp.umkc.edu Subject: luitporia :: a mailing list Status: RO November 15, 1990 Hi everyone, Welcome to a new mailing list: luitporia ! This mailinglistisintendedforpeople directly/indirectly/some way related to Assam/North-East In- dia. However, anyone else interested is welcome to join this list. The idea of this list is to provide a global mailing list accessible to EVERYONE from ANYWHERE (almost anywhere) by sending message to just one address and to provide an in- formal forum to discuss/pass news about Assam, Assamese com- munity in North America and Europe (yes at present we have one person getting this mail message across the Atlantic in UK, see list below) and the like. In future, I hope I'll (we'll) find out about someone directly in India who I can add to the list (At present, there are several sites in In- dia like TIFR, NCST, IITs which can be accessed by e-mail from this side of the world). I have been meaning to set up such a mailing list for quite sometime. Now that I have my own workstation aazoli (couldn't think of a better name!) and that there are a fair number (22 as of now) of people with e-mail access, I decid- ed it's time to do so. The Internet e-mail address for this mailing list is: luitpo...@aazoli.cstp.umkc.edu and should work from everywhere. People who are on BITNET will hopefully figure it out how to send mail to this list (using jnet or some other interface). The initial list has been set up with the names of the people with whom I have been communicating (ir)regularly by e-mail and the names provided to me by Jugal Kalita of Colorado Springs, Colorado. (Thanks, Jugal). I like to apo- logize to you for adding your name to the list without ob- taining your permission. (Anyone who would NOT like to be on this mailing list should send me a message so that I can delete his/her name). If you know of anyone else who might be interested in being added to this mailing list, please let him/her contact me at my address given below. I would appreciate if you could acknowledge receipt of this mail by sending me a message at my e-mail address list- ed below (Please send me correction on name/e-mail address). Finally, please excuse me if you got multiple copies of this message; bear with me as I set up this initial list. Thank you. Happy e-mailing :-) Deepankar Medhi Computer Science Telecommunications Program University of Missouri-Kansas City Kansas City, Missouri 64110-2499 (816) 235-2006 e-mail: Internet: dme...@cstp.umkc.edu or dme...@aazoli.cstp.umkc.edu Bitnet: dme...@umkcvax2.bitnet FAX: (816) 235-5192 = The following people consist of the initial 'luitporia' mailing list: Mohd Rafiqul Awal, U of Oklahoma, Norman: mra...@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu Mantu Baishya, U of Colorado, Boulder: bais...@spot.colorado.edu Naba Barkakati, Maryland: n...@eneevax.umd.edu Arati Barua, Boeing, Washington: ara...@sundry.boeing.com Pranab Barua, Boeing, Washington: pranab%...@atc.boeing.com Sanjoy Baruah, U of Texas, Austin: san...@cs.utexas.edu Arup Jyoti Bhuyan, ATT Bell Labs, Naperville, IL: a...@ihlpl.att.com Apolok Borthakur, Rice U, Houston: a...@rice.edu Jugma Bora, Schlumberger, Michigan: bora%...@aaaca1.sinet.slb.com Partha Choudhury, ICL, UK: p...@oasis.icl.stc.co.uk Shakuntala Choudhury, ATT, Bridgewater, NJ: schoudh...@attmail.att.com Jugal Kalita, U of Colorado, Colorado Springs: kal...@zeppo.colorado.edu Jukti Kalita, Columbia University, NY:
Re: [Assam] 20th Anniversary
Dear Baideu, There is a bright side to not being able to remember what it was like at that time; we can be unfettered in creating stories of our lives. Oh the tales to tell twenty years later ...:) :) Regards, Santanu. -Original Message- From: Alpana B. Sarangapani [mailto:absarangap...@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 3:08 PM To: Roy, Santanu; assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] 20th Anniversary Yes, Debu! That is a great service you all have started and are providing us. Happy Anniversary to you pioneers. About reminding our yonger days, Santanu, some of us are at the stage that we can't even remember - it's so far behind! :) Sent via BlackBerry by ATT -Original Message- From: Roy Santanu s...@mail.smu.edu Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 19:38:01 To: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] 20th Anniversary Dear Debu, That was a great milestone! It also reminds many of us of our younger days. Thanks to you for the beginning and thanks to those who carry the torch forward - Santanu. -Original Message- From: assam-boun...@assamnet.org [mailto:assam-boun...@assamnet.org] On Behalf Of Medhi, Deep Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 12:48 PM To: (assam@assamnet.org) Subject: [Assam] 20th Anniversary Today happens to be the 20th anniversary of the erstwhile luitoria mailing list that began on my computer aazoli.cstp.umkc.edu. I'm posting below the original message. Back then some people were on BitNet, which doesn't exist anymore. We could send to bitnet addresses by using a gateway. Also, the via address % concept is no longer allowed (mostly for security reason). - DM From dme...@aazoli.cstp.umkc.edu Thu Nov 15 15:52:41 1990 Date: Thu, 15 Nov 90 15:44:35 -0600 From: dme...@aazoli.cstp.umkc.edu (Deep Medhi) To: luitpo...@aazoli.cstp.umkc.edu Subject: luitporia :: a mailing list Status: RO November 15, 1990 Hi everyone, Welcome to a new mailing list: luitporia ! This mailinglistisintendedforpeople directly/indirectly/some way related to Assam/North-East In- dia. However, anyone else interested is welcome to join this list. The idea of this list is to provide a global mailing list accessible to EVERYONE from ANYWHERE (almost anywhere) by sending message to just one address and to provide an in- formal forum to discuss/pass news about Assam, Assamese com- munity in North America and Europe (yes at present we have one person getting this mail message across the Atlantic in UK, see list below) and the like. In future, I hope I'll (we'll) find out about someone directly in India who I can add to the list (At present, there are several sites in In- dia like TIFR, NCST, IITs which can be accessed by e-mail from this side of the world). I have been meaning to set up such a mailing list for quite sometime. Now that I have my own workstation aazoli (couldn't think of a better name!) and that there are a fair number (22 as of now) of people with e-mail access, I decid- ed it's time to do so. The Internet e-mail address for this mailing list is: luitpo...@aazoli.cstp.umkc.edu and should work from everywhere. People who are on BITNET will hopefully figure it out how to send mail to this list (using jnet or some other interface). The initial list has been set up with the names of the people with whom I have been communicating (ir)regularly by e-mail and the names provided to me by Jugal Kalita of Colorado Springs, Colorado. (Thanks, Jugal). I like to apo- logize to you for adding your name to the list without ob- taining your permission. (Anyone who would NOT like to be on this mailing list should send me a message so that I can delete his/her name). If you know of anyone else who might be interested in being added to this mailing list, please let him/her contact me at my address given below. I would appreciate if you could acknowledge receipt of this mail by sending me a message at my e-mail address list- ed below (Please send me correction on name/e-mail address). Finally, please excuse me if you got multiple copies of this message; bear with me as I set up this initial list. Thank you. Happy e-mailing :-) Deepankar Medhi Computer Science Telecommunications Program University of Missouri-Kansas City Kansas City, Missouri 64110-2499 (816) 235-2006 e-mail: Internet: dme...@cstp.umkc.edu or dme...@aazoli.cstp.umkc.edu Bitnet: dme...@umkcvax2.bitnet
[Assam] From BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11578763 ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] From NYT
[The New York Times] http://www.nytimes.com/ * .October 2, 2010 Games India Isn’t Ready to PlayBy PANKAJ MISHRA Mashobra, India ON Friday afternoon, public spaces across north India were flooded with policemen and paramilitaries. Thousands of alleged “troublemakers” were arrested. The sending of bulk text messages from mobile phones was banned. These precautions had nothing to do with the opening on Sunday of the Commonwealth Games, the athletic competition among the nations of the former British Empire that so many Indians have hoped would be their country’s symbolic coming out as a world power. Rather, the police were out in force because an Indian court had pronounced its verdict on the site in the town of Ayodhya that has been long claimed by Hindu nationalists as the birthplace of Lord Rama. The government did not want a repeat of the horrific mob violence that in 1992 had followed the destruction by Hindu nationalists of a 16th-century mosque standing on the land in question. Shortly after the verdict, which split the disputed site unequally in favor of Hindus and to the detriment of Muslims, I went for a walk through the Himalayan village near my home. Even here, 600 miles from Ayodhya, people seemed to be playing it safe, the market partly closed, and shopkeepers clustered around television sets behind shutters. Only the migrant laborers, who have come hundreds of miles from central India to the Himalayas, were still at work, men, women and even children carrying heavy stones on their heads at the construction projects that litter the hillsides. Easily identified — the parents small and thin and dark, and the children with distended bellies and rust-brown hair that speak of chronic malnutrition — these migrant laborers have been a regular sight here for some years, building summer homes for the affluent of Delhi all day, and then huddling under tin shacks at night. I stopped to talk to a couple I know. All morning news channels had been working themselves into a frenzy of fear and anxiety. Even the more sober commentators fretted whether our “rising economic superpower” would be torn apart again over the question of whether the mythical Lord Rama was born in a ramshackle provincial town. But the laborers hadn’t heard of the court verdict. As colder weather approaches, their greatest anxiety seemed to be to protect themselves: the punitive rains this summer have blown away the roofs of their living quarters. And it seemed only right that these helots of India’s globalized economy should be indifferent to the possible despoiling of India’s image in the West. • So who is anxious over India’s image in the wealthy world? That particular burden is borne by India’s small affluent elite, for whom the last few months have been full of painful and awkward self-reckonings. Certainly, the fear of violence over Ayodhya was only the latest in a long line of reminders that, as the columnist Vir Sanghvi put it, “as hard as we try to build a new India ... old India still has the power to humiliate and embarrass us.” Since June, a mass insurrection, resembling the Palestinian intifada, has raged in the Indian-held Valley of Kashmir. Defying draconian curfews, large and overwhelmingly young crowds of Kashmiri Muslims have protested human rights abuses by the nearly 700,000 Indian security forces there. Ill-trained soldiers have met stone-pelting protesters with gunfire, killing more than a hundred Kashmiris, mostly teenagers, and ensuring another militant backlash that will be exploited by radical Islamists in Pakistan. A full-blown insurgency is already under way in central India, where guerrilla fighters inspired by Mao Zedong’s tactics are arrayed against a government they see as actively colluding with multinational corporations to deprive tribal people of their mineral-rich lands. In recent months, the Maoists have attacked the symbols of the state’s authority — railroads, armories, police stations — seemingly at will, killing scores of people. Yet the greatest recent blow to wealthy Indians’ delusions on the subject of their nation’s inexorable rise has been the Commonwealth Games, for which Delhi was given a long and painful facelift. For so many, the contest was expected to banish India’s old ghosts of religious and class conflict, and cement its claims to a seat at the high tables of international superpowers. But the games turned into a fiasco well before their scheduled opening. Two weeks ago, a huge footbridge connected to the main stadium collapsed. The federation that runs the games has called the athletes’ housing “uninhabitable.” The organizers have had to hire an army of vicious langur monkeys to keep wild animals from infesting the venues. Pictures of crumbling arenas and filthy toilets are circulating more widely than the beautiful landscapes of the government’s “Incredible India” tourism campaign. As the ratings agency Moody
Re: [Assam] Where have all the people gone?
Amazing. I don't know what is more comic: the idea that some organization can encourage unemployed under-matriculate youths to become menial laborers, or the fact that such an idea deserves to appear on print. People do not always choose their livelihood depending on their education, often for the poor it works the other way. They lack formal education to be even classified as undermatriculates because they cannot afford it. If the writer wants the ten lakh undermatriculate Assamese youths (who apparently seek white collar jobs) to become menial workers, he should first destroy the infrastructure, domestic asset and support that allow them to proceed to a certain level in the education system (quite unlike many of the very poor that includes migrants and the indigenous) to support their apparently prolonged wait to earn a livelihood. Next, he should destroy the urban informal economy that allows these unemployed undermatriculates to survive in better non-formal earning opportunities than menial workers. Then, he will have reduced their situation to that of the poorest illegal immigrants. Maybe then these youths will even migrate to Bengladesh and Bihar to do menial jobs, take away the jobs from the home base of these migrants - kick them in their belly, as the writer once famously exhorted. From: assam-boun...@assamnet.org [assam-boun...@assamnet.org] On Behalf Of uttam borthakur [uttambortha...@yahoo.co.in] Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 7:46 AM To: assam Subject: Re: [Assam] Where have all the people gone? The following piece is clearly tendentious. It is the legacy of the bias of The Sentinel, as is evident in Sri D N Bezbaruah's earlier write up on the migrant issue after Barpeta incident where he drew analogy of high birth rate in muslim community (though he was suave enough to point his fingers at illegal migrants: and I suppose there's no separate birth rate data for illegal migrants!) with multiplication of rabbits. These kind of confused write-ups show the quality of the reporters and journalists. When one has no property, or land to till, or no education to do white collar jobs, such uprooted people become 'wage-earners' by providing menial labour in different trade and industry. And if the Muslim community consists more of some people, it simply means that there are more poor people in that community. It is good that Assamese Hindu or so called son of the soil have not fallen on such bad days so far. Why be mushy over a non-issue? When will the son of the soil be self-dependent? Can he ever? By our Staff Reporter GUWAHATI, Sept 9: The vacuum of menial workers like daily wage-earners, autorickshaw drivers, thelawalas, carpenters, masons, vegetable vendors and others becomes quite visible ahead of the Idd festival. This vacuum that lasts for a week or so is a common phenomenon that reflects on the dependence of the indigenous people of Assam on other communities in so far as menial works are concerned. It will be recalled that in order to make the people of Assam self-dependent, the All Assam Students’ Union (AASU) had started a movement during the early part of the Assam Agitation. AASU activists did all sorts of menial works like hairdressing, selling vegetables, pulling rickshaws, carrying luggage etc themselves. However, that tempo was only for a few days. In Assam as of now, labourers from North India are being rapidly replaced by an industrious religious minority community. No one knows how many of them are indeed Indian minority citizens and how many are illegal Bangladeshis. The current vacuum of workers has been created because most of the people belonging to this community have left the city for their villages to celebrate Idd. At present, Assam has about ten lakh registered under-matriculate unemployed youths. What percentage of these unemployed youths belonging to the indigenous community would come forward for menial works to earn a livelihood? These youths hanker after government jobs at any cost. Menial works are a ‘‘prestige issue’’ for them. Only in Guwahati, over Rs 200 crore is doled out annually as daily wages for construction works, in both private and government sectors. In such works, the presence of indigenous people as workers, carpenters and masons is almost nil. This sector is filled by people belonging to the so-called minority community. The AASU is vocal on all issues, including politics. Would the present set of AASU leaders tell us as to why they have failed to encourage the unskilled, unemployed, indigenous youths of the State to fill the vast vacuum of menial workers? Do not they feel that this is the best way to fight illegal immigration from Bangladesh? (The Sentinel,Guwahati,Friday,September 10, 2010) Uttam Kumar Borthakur ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] An article by M Bora (Amar Asom,09.09.2010)
It is indeed a nice article by Mayur. The crucial part of the story is that the urban young in Assam, particularly the affluent, have much less respect, affinity, affection or even association with their own roots than many of us are comfortable with. In the pop-cultural hierarchy that largely flows through television and Hindi movies, Assamese (and other indigenous) language and culture comes a very distant and low third. It is not just language, in matters of taste for food, dress, dance forms, marriage ceremonies and every other imaginable cultural attribute, these kids imitate and revere the forms seen on TV and Bollywood, often viewing the indigenous with a mix of condescension and disdain as being an imposition on them from an older generation that have lost touch with current reality. Objects of cultural invasion become willingly accepted and morally justified through the language of intergenerational contradiction. What remains unspoken is the class distinction between them and those of more humble backgrounds who do not have the means to be so much like the folks on screens. And thus, a new generation of Indian sahibs and wannabe sahibs emerge from our soil. They not only adopt the form (like many of us may have done), but in fact give their hearts to screen-India. But is it right for us to stem the tide? Do we not know how much dividends accrue to speaking perfect television Hindi and Hinglish, to dressing and eating like those in mainland metroplexes - do we not see how these attributes will advance their careers and bring them success? And if this is the incentive structure, why would the young not behave this way and why should their parents not encourage it? Perhaps, the indigenous will have to wait for another generation to revolt against these kids when they grow up - in the clarity and purity of their young minds, the yet unborn children will perhaps seek out their distinct identity before they are assimilated by the giant machine - much like the children of Indian diaspora sometimes do. Santanu. From: assam-boun...@assamnet.org [assam-boun...@assamnet.org] On Behalf Of Dilip Deka [dilipd...@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:46 PM To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world Subject: Re: [Assam] An article by M Bora (Amar Asom,09.09.2010) Well written article. I agree with Mayur Bora that it is desirable and possible to learn both Assamese and English as a young person in Assam. We did and we haven't suffered a bit living overseas for the last forty years. I also learned Bengalee, Hindi, some French, some Spanish and now some Portuguese as the need arose. Though I cannot write Assamese as well any more as Mayur, I take solace in the fact that I can still speak fluent Assamese. Keep up the good work, Mayur. Keep encouraging the young generation in Assam. Dilip Deka, Houston, TX, USA From: Buljit Buragohain buluas...@yahoo.co.in To: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Wed, September 8, 2010 10:24:23 PM Subject: [Assam] An article by M Bora (Amar Asom,09.09.2010) An article by M Bora (Amar Asom,09.09.2010) http://amarasom.glpublications.in/Details.aspx?id=1998boxid=101150843 ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] An article on Assam
I read with great interest Sanjib Baruah's article The Partition's Long Shadow... in the December 2009 issue of Citizenship Studies. I learnt a lot. Thanks to Chandan-da for forwarding it. I found particularly useful Sanjib's approach of studying the issue by explicitly contrasting the historically pan-Indian and the local (or indigenous) frames of looking at it. Perhaps, there are other frames that are relevant; among them the immigrants' frame. To the extent our collective actions are shaped by the stories we tell ourselves, the last one may also have played and will play an important role in determining the historical process in Assam. At the conclusion of his article, Sanjib argues for: a multi-level and transnational citizenship regime that decouples citizenship from nationality. Voting right in Bangladesh could be combined with full rights of personhood in IndiaWhile some rights could be universal, others could remain tied to nationality. Resident and migratory foreigners could have the former, but not the latter. Some version of transnational multi-level citzenship regime might be Assam's last hope... Independent of the theoretical and symbolic merits of such a scheme, I am rather concerned that a society that cannot maintain a simple dual distinction between citizens and non-citizens is unlikely to be able to maintain a multi-level system of boundaries within its populace. Distinctions require exclusion for the different segments - exclusion from public goods, exclusion from political rights, exclusion from the right to earn political rent by seeking political and other government offices. Exclusion requires enforcement and voluntary compliance. If I am not mistaken, there is a hint in Sanjib's article that such a system may be implementable because the people themselves will be more willing to comply (he also suggests that cooperation from foreign governments might be helpul). For instance (and this is an old argument), if there was a category of temporary guest workers that were given the right to work and live without right to vote (and a few other such rights), some illegal immigrants would be more willing to register themselves legitimately under this category (and visit their families across the border freely), rather than claim to be citizens (knowing that it is an unlawful claim that could land them in jeopardy and that effectively prevents them from moving freely). However, this will not work if there is no penalty associated with claiming full citizenship in an unlawful manner. Finally, I wonder whether the legalistic view that the ultimate legitimate destiny for illegal immigrants is return to their source country occupies our minds excessively. Perhaps, we should think more seriously about creating incentives for immigrants to move to rest of India where the pan-Indian narrative (that has hurt the north east in the past) will provide them with greater legitimacy. And so whether or not we like them, the anti-immigrant movements in Assam and other conflicts, the relative decline of economic opportunities in Assam and other changes (such as the defeat of Hindutva politics by caste based and other forces in mainland India) may be serving a historical purpose. Perhaps, we should think about small institutional changes that harness the process and encourage it without enticing hostile closing of doors by neighboring regions in India. Paradoxically, the more open the pan-Indian rhetoric towards immigrants from the subcontinent, lower their enforcement of citizenship and the greater the incentive for the marginal migrants to move out of Assam. The journey may well continue for some of them. Santanu. -Original Message- From: assam-boun...@assamnet.org [mailto:assam-boun...@assamnet.org] On Behalf Of Chan Mahanta Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 1:07 PM To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world Subject: Re: [Assam] An article on Assam Here it is Mayur: ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From NY Times - India's Civil Engineering Achievements
The problem is not really one of production of civil engineers. The system produces enough of them. It is just that these people choose to enter the IT related sectors rather than work as civil engineers because the perceived wages are significantly lower for the latter. Of course, government civil engineers can make a lot of money through graft and compromises - but clearly that is not enough to attract the bright young ones (who may even put some value on clean income). It is difficult to see how producing MORE civil engineers is going to rectify the situation. If anything, it will push down the wages for civil engineers in the private sector. The solution is clearly one of allowing compensation for civil engineers to rise competitively till there is no shortage. As the public sector employs bulk of them, they need to act. On a slightly different and more general note, the Indian education system engages in a colossal waste of resources when it trains hordes of bright people in advanced science, engineering and technology disciplines at the best public institutions of the country - only to have the products enter the IT sector in jobs bearing no relation to their education and training. A significant proportion of these IT jobs can be performed by student with secondary school education and half to one year of training. Instead, we see students competing ferociously to enter the top engineering schools (in disciplines ranging from aeronautical to metallurgical engineering) only to signal their relative strength of innate cleverness or IQ to INFOSYS and other most coveted employers in the IT sector. Santanu. -Original Message- From: assam-boun...@assamnet.org [mailto:assam-boun...@assamnet.org] On Behalf Of Chan Mahanta Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:47 AM To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world Subject: [Assam] From NY Times - India's Civil Engineering Achievements India's Civil Engineering Achievements --NOT! http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/26/business/global/26engineer.html ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From NY Times - India's Civil Engineering Achievements
Hi Chandan-da: Sorry for the long silence; but I wasn't gone, just lazy. I agree with you that lack of civil engineers is not really the main constraint on the poor state of infrastructure. I was in Assam two weeks ago and the roads in my home town have all but disappeared (the word pothole doesn't convey the scale of the problem). Pools of rainwater everywhere. No roads, but lots of flashy cars where Dart Vaders breathe in conditioned air . Sometimes two of these cars per middle class family. Splashing water and bouncing their way through concrete jungles that grow tentacles everywhere. I took my friend from Guwahati for a walk through the only open green space that was probably left in the city. It had disappeared. No place to catch a lungful of fresh air anymore. How did we come to this? Santanu. -Original Message- From: assam-boun...@assamnet.org [mailto:assam-boun...@assamnet.org] On Behalf Of Chan Mahanta Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 11:33 AM To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world Subject: Re: [Assam] From NY Times - India's Civil Engineering Achievements Good to hear from you Santanu. I was afraid we lost you, like so many others that have come and gone :-). Hope to hear more from you. Anyway, MY views are somewhat different. I posted the following comment to NY Times which is awaiting clearance from the Moderator: ___ Of the many reasons cited for the appalling conditions of India's infrastructure, lack of civil engineers is the least of the problem. It is primarily rooted in two issues: *** A cultural, attitudinal one. The medieval, feudal attitude of Indians who look down on manual labor that pervades even to this day, deprives the profession and industry of hands-on, technically competent people who can build intelligently and cometently. Few of the zillions of engineers, including civil, Indian universities churn out, could not relate their academic knowledge ( which is as good as any in the world) to actual field work, the project delivery process, if their lives depended on it. How do I know? I am an architect, trained in one of the most hyped Indian IITs. *** The utter dysfunction of Indian governance: Corrupt practices pervade, because no one, important enough is ever held accountable, be it for finance, be it for lab-work, be it for poor quality work, be-it for non-delivery of goods and services contracted out. Add to that the attitude of the clerks-from-hell, the legendary Indian bureaucracy, whose only contribution is to serve as obstacles to every endeavor with their zeal for compliance with rules, regulations and process, before anything can get off the ground, but who are impotent to provide any help, relief , WHEN things actually go bad! On Aug 26, 2010, at 11:07 AM, Roy, Santanu wrote: The problem is not really one of production of civil engineers. The system produces enough of them. It is just that these people choose to enter the IT related sectors rather than work as civil engineers because the perceived wages are significantly lower for the latter. Of course, government civil engineers can make a lot of money through graft and compromises - but clearly that is not enough to attract the bright young ones (who may even put some value on clean income). It is difficult to see how producing MORE civil engineers is going to rectify the situation. If anything, it will push down the wages for civil engineers in the private sector. The solution is clearly one of allowing compensation for civil engineers to rise competitively till there is no shortage. As the public sector employs bulk of them, they need to act. On a slightly different and more general note, the Indian education system engages in a colossal waste of resources when it trains hordes of bright people in advanced science, engineering and technology disciplines at the best public institutions of the country - only to have the products enter the IT sector in jobs bearing no relation to their education and training. A significant proportion of these IT jobs can be performed by student with secondary school education and half to one year of training. Instead, we see students competing ferociously to enter the top engineering schools (in disciplines ranging from aeronautical to metallurgical engineering) only to signal their relative strength of innate cleverness or IQ to INFOSYS and other most coveted employers in the IT sector. Santanu. -Original Message- From: assam-boun...@assamnet.org [mailto:assam-boun...@assamnet.org] On Behalf Of Chan Mahanta Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:47 AM To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world Subject: [Assam] From NY Times - India's Civil Engineering
[Assam] Barua at Cannes.
BBC report on Indian film makers' ventures at Cannes - Jahnu Barua set to film Homing Pigeons, a period love story to be shot extensively in the UK http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7412344.stm winmail.dat___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Adivasi Politics in Assam
Dear Sanjib: Thank you, as always, for the voice of reason and insight. This time even the saner intelligentia seemed to speak in forked tongue. The demand for inclusion in the ST category by the adivasis among the tea labor community is probably something more than simply a desire to be counted among those offered preferential treatment by the state in matters of employment and education. It has the tone of social and political assertion by a community that is numerically large and has for centuries been ring fenced from the rest of society in Assam. Indeed, even in recent times, tea plantation workers were not subject to the kind of political and economic institutions that rest of society takes as granted (however dysfunctional they may be). They (still?) receive part of their subsistence wages in kind (ration as it is called) instead of buying in the open market and this creates a very different kind of structure of economic dependency on their employers - who not only provide employment but also directly supply all the subsistence goods including meager health care and other social infrastructure (often non-existent in the peripheral areas). If the state is weak in Assam, it is non-existent in the tea sector. You could murder a worker for personal reasons and get away with a slight reprimand (I know real cases). The gradual alienation of younger generations from their traditional more, their entry into the urban communities, the closure of large number of estates, deforestation as a form of asset stripping by estate owners, the conversion of tea land to farm land etc - has meant that two things. For one, the ones who have left have crossed the fence and are visible in society at large; they have learned to carry the economic and political aspirations of that society. More importantly, greater interface with markets, media and society has challenged the mores of habitual dependency that the plantations survived on for centuries. In short, the babus and owners are pissed. Political assertion by the community therefore threatens many. There is an aspect of yet another assertive group adding to the ethnic fragmentation and potential conflict in Assam - always unnerving to the nationalist Assamese cause. There is the aspect of the community being more vulnerable to exploitation by mainland Hindi politicians who can use them to assert a foothold in the domestic populace. There is even an aspect of them being exploited by the adivasi loving hypocracy of the Sangh parivar. There is the larger question of an important vote bank for national parties dissolving and ethnic political parties or even miltant groups taking over. And most importantly, there is the question of an increasingly economically displaced community looking for a place outside the tea economy and competing for resources (including public doles). The demand for inclusion in ST category impinges on all these and many other fronts. I am hoping you will write about these socio-economic and political complexities so that we can understand the situation better. Best- Santanu. -Original Message- From: Sanjib Baruah [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 3:13 PM To: assam@assamnet.org Subject: [Assam] Adivasi Politics in Assam http://www.telegraphindia.com/1071211/asp/opinion/story_8654412.asp The Telegraph, Calcutta. Tuesday, December 11, 2007 READING THE TEA LEAVES - The understanding of tribal status must be rid of colonial errors SANJIB BARUAH After the mayhem in Guwahati around the adivasi rally of November 24, the government of Assam is reportedly considering legislation that would restrict the public display of bows and arrows and other 'traditional' weapons. That a group that provided the muscle for the 19th-century capitalist transformation of Assam today finds the bow and arrow to be an attractive ethnic symbol is rather interesting. So is its preferred self-description as adivasis, in sharp contrast to the English term 'tribe' preferred by most other groups that have legal recognition as scheduled tribes in northeast India. The adivasis of Assam trace their roots to Munda, Oraon, Santhal and other people of the Jharkhand region. They are descendants of indentured labourers brought to the tea plantations of Assam. Adivasi activists argue that since their ethnic kin in their places of origin are recognized as STs, they should have the same status in Assam. According to some estimates, there are as many as 4 million adivasis in Assam - more than half of Assam's tea labour community. They constitute the majority of the tea labour community in Lower Assam, but other groups outnumber them in Upper Assam. If ST status is about whether a group deserves reservations in jobs and in educational institutions, the case for adivasis being recognized as STs is indisputable. A study on the tea labour
Re: [Assam] Nobel Facts
Ram-da: The so called Nobel prize in economics has little to do with the will and endowment of Alfred Nobel. It was instituted by the Sveriges Riksbank in 1969 in memory of Nobel and is in fact called the Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel. Its the Bank's money. I think one of the arguments behind the prize was that having a Swedish prize (associated with the name Nobel) directed at the social science side of the spectrum (the literature prize touches the humanities side). Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Ram Sarangapani Sent: Sat 10/20/2007 11:50 AM To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world Subject: [Assam] Nobel Facts For those interested. Here are 15 facts about the Nobel? If you scroll down, you will also notice the Will of Alfred Nobel. Does anyone know why the Nobel for Economics was added later on - since Alfred Nobel did not specifically indicate one for Economics? --Ram ___ http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/8803?cnn=yes *.* Robert Lucas, winner of the 1995 Nobel Prize in Economics for his work on the theory of rational expectations, split his $1 million prizehttp://www.boston.com/globe/search/stories/nobel/1995/1995f.htmlwith his ex-wife. If there were a Nobel Prize for Foresight or Timing, I'd nominate her, based on a clause in their divorce settlement from seven years earlier: Wife shall receive 50 percent of any Nobel Prize. But the clause expired on October 31, 1995. Had Lucas won any year after, he would have kept the whole million. [image: dynasty.jpg]*2.* Physicist Lise Meitner, whose work helped lead to the discovery of nuclear fission, was reportedly nominated for the Nobel Prize 13 times without ever winninghttp://discovermagazine.com/2006/oct/20-things-nobel-prizes. This makes her the *Dynasty* of the Nobel Prize scene (the show was nominated for 24 Emmy Awards http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/7940 but never won). Other analogies we'd accept: *The Color Purple* (11 Oscar nominations in 1985, no wins) and William Jennings Bryan (three-time Democratic nominee for President, losing twice to McKinley and once to Taft.) *3.* In 2007, two winners had a combined age of 177. At 90, professor Leonid Hurwicz is the oldest person to ever win (one-third of the Prize in Economics); at 87, writer Doris Lessing is the oldest woman (Literature). *Keep reading for duels, sex scandals, overlooked legends and flat-out refusals*. *[image: Mullis2.jpg]4.* DNA expert Kary Mullis - 1993 winner of the Nobel Prize in Chemistry - was scheduled to be a defense witnesshttp://www.nytimes.com/books/98/10/11/reviews/981011.11teresit.html?_r=1oref=sloginin O.J. Simpson's murder trial. However, Simpson lawyer Barry Scheck felt the prosecution's DNA case was already essentially destroyed, and he didn't want Mullis' personal life to distract jurors (read: he'd expressed an affinity for LSD and surfing.) *5.* In the last ten years, the Nobel Prize in Literature has gone for the first time to authors in Portugal, China, Trinidad Tobago, Hungary, Austria and Turkey *[source] http://review.antioch.edu/bidetail.php?id=56* . *[image: einstein.jpeg]6.* Nobel Laureates you must know: Teddy Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., Mother Teresa, Elie Wiesel, Mikhail Gorbachev, Nelson Mandela, Yasser Arafat, Shimon Peres, Yitzhak Rabin, Jimmy Carter, Toni Morrison, William Faulkner, T.S. Eliot, Ernest Hemingway, Samuel Beckett, Pierre Marie Curie, Max Planck and Albert Einstein (). *7.* Big names who never won: Leo Tolstoy, Virginia Woolf, James Joyce, Marcel Proust, Mangesh Hattikudur, Mark Twain, Gertrude Stein, Paul Tagliabue, Henrik Ibsen, Thomas Edison and Mahatma Gandhi. *8.* The following people refused the Prize: [image: kissinger_tho.jpg]. Le Duc Tho was awarded the 1973 Nobel Peace Prize with Henry Kissinger for their roles in brokering a Vietnam cease fire at the Paris Peace Accords. Citing the absence of actual peace in Vietnam, Tho declined to accept. . Jean Paul Sartre waved off the 1964 Nobel Prize in Literature. His explanation http://www.sartre.org/biography.htm: It is not the same thing if I sign Jean-Paul Sartre or if I sign Jean-Paul Sartre, Nobel Prize winner. A writer must refuse to allow himself to be transformed into an institution, even if it takes place in the most honorable form. . Afraid of Soviet retribution, Boris Pasternak declined to accept the 1958 Prize in Literature, which he'd earned for *Doctor Zhivago*. The Academy refused his refusalhttp://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/1958/press.html. This refusal, of course, in no way alters the validity of the award. There remains only for the Academy, however, to announce with regret that the presentation of the Prize cannot take place. . Erik Axel Karlfeldt won for Literature in 1918. He did not accept because he was
[Assam] From AT
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Re: [Assam] From AT
Scribe in jail for showing police in bad light From Our Correspondent BAIHATA CHARIALI, Oct 7 - Anubhab Kumar, Changsari Correspondent of Asomiya Khabar on Thursday has been sent to Nalbari jail after producing him before the court of Dharitri Barman, first class magistrate of Rangia. Police had arrested Kumar on Wednesday for keeping good relation with ULFA. Though the police of Kamalpur PS wanted Kumar in police custody for two days the Magistrate declined to accept the request of the police. Police sources said that Kumar distorted the incident of the killing of Dr PC Ram, Executive Director of FCI and presented that news against the police to besmear their image among the public. On the contrary, Kumar claimed that to collect data for news purpose, a journalist may keep relation with various organisations, which may not be a crime. A section of people said that the correspondent exposed the failure of the police to rescue Dr PC Ram alive from the custody of ULFA. It is because of this reason, police arrested the correspondent and registered a case threatening him like a dreaded criminal. A section of people have alleged that police violated IPC No. 19(1) A by arresting the correspondent in this connection. Meanwhile AASU, AJYCP, AUS, including Kamrup District Journalists Association (KDJA), Saraighat Press Club, Rangia Press Club, Baihata Chariali and Kamalpur Press Club along with various local socio-cultural and women organisations have vehemently protested the move of the police in connection with the arrest of the correspondent. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chan Mahanta Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 9:27 AM To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world Subject: Re: [Assam] From AT Hi Santanu: The link does not work. What was the story on? ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Guwahati University VC resigns
This is truly sad. If someone like him cannot find enough rays of hope to change the state of affairs at the university, who can? Santanu. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Buljit Buragohain Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 11:09 PM To: assam@assamnet.org Subject: [Assam] Guwahati University VC resigns Note: forwarded message attached. Why delete messages? Unlimited storage is just a click away. http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_1/*http:/help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/ mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html/ ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Who is the Sentinel of Freedom? Reply to Xourov II
Dear Xourov, Here are my comments on the last part of your longer mail. You write: i don't even have a problem with that. my problem is with the clandestine nature of this operation. i know you accept corruption as a means of overcoming regulated economies. but you ignore the fact that they are also a means of monopolizing the system. if there exists a demand for immigration, there exists a corresponding demand against it. this corruption denies the opposing voice any expression, and leaves the field open for the demand for immigration. a monopoly situation. flies at the principles of free market, unfortunately. First, I am not clear about this demand for immigration. * The demand FOR immigrants to be allowed to settle is a political demand, it is not an economic demand - it may be voiced by those who stand to gain from it as a class, some existing immigrants, some potential employers etc. This demand is voiced covertly or overtly through the political process. The demand against immigration is also voiced through the same process. * The demand FROM potential immigrants to be allowed in and from existing immigrants to be legitimized is also largely a political demand voiced through the political process through votes, lobbying and contributions. * The economic demand in the market place BY immigrants is a demand for access to collective (common property and state assets) - partly through the poiltical process and partly through the market for such assets. It is also a demand for private goods - food, land, clothing - that are traded in the regular marketplace. My question to you is where is the monopoly - or one sided market power that you see? If I take the liberty of second guessing you are probably talking about the fact that when potential immigrants bribe and manipulate the political administrative system to their advantage, those who are going to be hurt by it (indegenous poor) cannot offer a counter-bribe or payment or measure. If this is what you are talking about, then I think you are focusing on an apparent symptom rather than the cause of the disease. In fact, this kind of market power is excercised by anyone who manipulates the state to his personal advantage and hence to the disadvantage of some others. You write: i am not the first person asking this operation to be above board. sanjay hazarika made a case for work permits, etc, in his book rites of passage in other words, he argues, let this entire operation be done in full view of everyone. based on policies that all of us agree on. currently, we don't know anything about this operation. leading to rhetoric, and a situation that is creating jingoism, chauvinism, and what not. have you been reading the aamsu and aasu threats and counter-threats in the last couple of days? unfortunately, that book by hazarika is not popular, and when the suggestion is made that we need to look at the networks on the indian side of the border it is so out of the blue people say oh, you are looking for independence. duh! or in the spirit of things, doh!! You suggest that perhaps the system can be made non-malipulable by making the process transparent. I have read about these kind of suggestions in the past and made some myself. I no longer believe in them. All such schemes require social engineering. The weakness of the state in Assam - one than cannot even run primary schools and health centers - dissuades me from believing that any such scheme will not degenerate into bureaucrats doling out papers for small money. The logic is simple - if they don't - the immigrants can still enter through existing means - illegally. They will simply not use these channels if it acts as an impediment to their free movement. And if they do, then the channel must have been compromised sufficiently. Transparency works only if the non-transparent channels are closed and the transparent channel is itself non-manipulable. The state in assam as it is and as it will be cannot deliver that. So these people who accuse you of political heresy might be clever enough to see it ...:-). Seriously, I think electrified high voltage barbed wire fences and no man's land across the border are going to be slightly more effective. But in the final analysis there is nothing to do but to try to affect the reasons immigrants find it to their advantage to enter and pay and fight to stay. You write: Migration should then cease after a period of time. from the look of it, this will not cease for a long time. the population density in bangladesh is in the 900s. it is in the 300s in assam. the situation in bangladesh countryside can only deteriorate, with decreasing land and increasing population, how long do you think it will take to catch up with the bangladeshi countryside? I don't think the situation is that bleak. One must recognize that migrants from Bangladesh do not move to Assam because
Re: [Assam] Who is the Sentinel of Freedom?
Dear Xourov, I will reply to your other mail later. But lest I open up a very old can of worms, let me say that I was NOT using term Bongal to refer to the anti-Bengali feeling in Brahmaputra Valley. We have talked about this before. This is actually part of my attempt to legitimize the term Bongal as used today. The migrants who speak Bengali or refer to themselves as Bengali speaking may be anywhere between 30 - 45% of the population of Assam (depending on how the na-oxomiyas are put). This is a legitimate sub-nationality of Assam - no matter how carefully they are ignored in the discourse of the oxomiya bhadralok - even the very intelligent ones. Generations have now grown up in Assam. Large proportion of them have not assimilated; they will not. They have, however, evolved into something different - their langauage and culture is going through a process of adaptation. (If only someone would care to look -the dynamics are fascinating for a social scientist actually). Most of them are really not connected to Bengal except in terms of historical group memory and myths. Soon they will resemble the Caribbean plantation workers from Bihar and Chhotanagpur that are not really Indian except in a mythical sense. They cannot be wished away. They are not indegenous but they are native now. Two hundred year from now, their progenies will probably be virtually indistinguishable from the children of indegenous peoples of Assam (no matter how irritating the thought is to some). Unless, some major ethnic cleansing occurs in between. Meanwhile, they need to have a name. What better than Bongal? Take care - Santanu-da. -Original Message- From: xourov pathok [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue 7/31/2007 6:57 AM To: Roy, Santanu; assam@assamnet.org; Dilip/Dil Deka Subject: RE: [Assam] Who is the Sentinel of Freedom? --- Roy, Santanu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And then all this talk about Bangladeshi versus Indian migration. If Bongals had not filled up the land, bongals. by using the word bongals, i guess you are referring to the anti-bengali feelings in assam. you might recall that that word has a history. in days past, before the british came along, bongal was used to refer to foreigners. specifically, the turk and afghan rulers of bengal. then, after the demise of the ahom kingdom, the bengali babus, mostly hindus, came along and became the symbol of colonialism. they too were called bongals, maybe to anoint them with the same abhorence of earlier times. it was not the ahom rulers who used the word this time though. a different set of people---the newly emerging assamese middle class aspiring the jobs held by the bengali babus---used the word. but the bengali babus had come to assam much earlier than the muslim peasants. and skipping much of history, we can say that the word bongal never much caught on for the muslim peasants. i believe mainly because the assamese middle class did not quite aspire for the muslim peasants' job. social history is complex. the muslim peasants mentioned assamese as their mother tongue in the census. at least some of them. and guess what, some of them have gone ahead formed the asam chor-chapori sahitya sabha. if you have watched angst at large by shankar barua, he talks to a young assamese (a sarma, who i have met in delhi) who calls them na-asamiya. by all indications, some of them have indeed taken to assamese. whereas the assamese send their children to english schools today, some of these muslim peasants send their children to assamese schools. this is also something i want the people to talk about, beyond the usual rhetoric. some more later :-) cheers, x Counterfactual history is always dangerous. But think about it for a moment. If walls of fire were erected to prevent people from coming to Assam from East Pakistan and Bangladesh in 1947, the Indian constitution would not have defended the state from potential migration that the economic mechanism would have engineered instead from mainland India. The pace would be different. The fact that the poor arid regions of central and eastern India do not have the skills to exploit wet areas would have been a factor. In the long run, however, the socio-economic picture would probably not be very different. The faces would have looked different. Less of lungis, less Bengali, more Hindi, more Hindu possibly. Then, what remains of the 1979 agitation? Perhaps, an awareness of the reality that just won't go away. A gnawing feeling in the indigenous soul that something has changed, something has been lost - realized in hard facts. For the urban dwellers, the veils have been lifted. And as the last thirt years have taught, the change is irretrievable. The politics of camouflage has been replaced by the politics of ethnic polarization. The middle class has learnt that language. Even the oxomiya bhdralok has. Santanu
Re: [Assam] Who is the Sentinel of Freedom?
Because it provokes stuff - such as this little exchange of ours. Best - Santanu-da. -Original Message- From: xourov pathok [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 10:21 AM To: Roy, Santanu; assam@assamnet.org; Dilip/Dil Deka Subject: RE: [Assam] Who is the Sentinel of Freedom? if they are evolving into something new, why use an old and loaded term? X ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Who is the Sentinel of Freedom?
The flow of human beings from the plains of Bengal (including Bangladesh) to Assam is and has always been driven by differences in economic opportunities except possibly the middle class Hindus who moved after 1947. [Even in the latter case, it is not clear that all of the migration to Assam is driven by the fear of political persecution - for after all, poor Hindus (not babus) from these areas had moved into Assam throughout 20th century.] The differences in economic opportunities arise mainly from differences in availability of natural resources per person (land, fishing water, forests) and from differences in availability and the degree of access to common property and state owned resources. These differences in economic opportunities are dying out for obvious reasons - except possibly in tribal/hill areas of Assam, Arunachal Pradesh, Nagaland etc where natural resources are still up for grabs. [Sanjib Baruah has written very authoritatively on the historical process related to some of these issues.] Migration should then cease after a period of time. As for politicians encouraging migration and the existence of corruption in state agencies that legitimise illegal migration - these should seen as mere exploitation of the fact that migrants want to move in search of economic opportnuities. The migrant is willing to pay with money and vote for the right to live here - there is a market - the politicians and the bureaucrats will be suppliers in this market. Nothing that one can think of can prevent this. And then all this talk about Bangladeshi versus Indian migration. If Bongals had not filled up the land, the vacuum created by the wedge between per capita resource availability in Assam and rest of Bharat would have meant a huge migration of people from mainland India. Counterfactual history is always dangerous. But think about it for a moment. If walls of fire were erected to prevent people from coming to Assam from East Pakistan and Bangladesh in 1947, the Indian constitution would not have defended the state from potential migration that the economic mechanism would have engineered instead from mainland India. The pace would be different. The fact that the poor arid regions of central and eastern India do not have the skills to exploit wet areas would have been a factor. In the long run, however, the socio-economic picture would probably not be very different. The faces would have looked different. Less of lungis, less Bengali, more Hindi, more Hindu possibly. Then, what remains of the 1979 agitation? Perhaps, an awareness of the reality that just won't go away. A gnawing feeling in the indigenous soul that something has changed, something has been lost - realized in hard facts. For the urban dwellers, the veils have been lifted. And as the last thirt years have taught, the change is irretrievable. The politics of camouflage has been replaced by the politics of ethnic polarization. The middle class has learnt that language. Even the oxomiya bhdralok has. Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of xourov pathok Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 10:17 AM To: assam@assamnet.org; Dilip/Dil Deka Subject: [Assam] Who is the Sentinel of Freedom? I can see you are trying to steer the discussion to the same issues that you are so fond of and have discussed here so many times - that India has totally failed and Assam will be better off by opting out of India. dilip-da, that is c-da, not me. could you show me where i have argued assam is better off opting out of india? the possibility of that happening is too remote, imho, and there is not point in speculating on it. it is not going to happen. period. i am trying to keep to the issue of immigration, and not going on a tangent on freedom. independence. principles. or thought experiments. i am trying to focus on the failure of the assam agitation and what it means for assam. also, i am trying to focus on the mechanism how immigration is happening. what sustains it. etc. On your email below - All of your allegations are valid, not always but in many instances. India is still experimenting with democracy [snipped] i am not interested in the discussion on indian democracy in the present context. i am strongly interested in the issue of democracy, of course. but that is an entirely different issue. x Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/ ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Assamnet moved to a dedicated server
Yes - it is a wonderful service to the community. Thank you and thanks to Chandan-da for providing the crucial support. Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Chan Mahanta Sent: Wed 7/18/2007 2:30 PM To: J Kalita; assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Assamnet moved to a dedicated server J and B: Thanks, as always, for all you do to keep assamnet alive. c-da At 12:23 PM -0700 7/18/07, J Kalita wrote: Hello Members of Assamnet, The company that was hosting assamnet recently asked us to move a few days ago due to the large number of emails that had to be sent out by their server. They were in a shared environment and it was becoming too burdensome for them. As a result, we moved to a new dedicated server a couple of days ago. We were having some problems, but I think Babul and the company have been able to fix all the problems. Sorry for the mail interruptions over the past couple of days. Jugal Kalita Babul Gogoi ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Immigration policy
I don't see why Mr. Deka's personal situation is relevant to this debate. It is unfair to pose that question and the strength of the arguments do not rest on that. It is a debate worth having and I certainly am learning from both the enunciation of both points of view. Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of umesh sharma Sent: Sun 7/8/2007 11:21 AM To: kamal deka; assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Immigration policy Kamal-da, At thde risk of sounding like singing Ba Ba Black Sheep let me remind you that as per current US immigration policy - both family members (siblings, parents etc) and 'sharp , skilled professionals have to apply thru the same quota/channel. And given that there are many more in US who would like to bring along their relative than those who are in a position to get an employer to sponsor them - I believe that the overwhelming majority of Green Card applicatans to US (out of half a million Indians etc - and perhaps even more so for Mexicans) are NOT the 'sharp skilled ones but those coming becos they have family connecions here. This is detrimental not only to US skilled labor/competitiveness interests but also to those millions in other countires who have no family connections here but only their skills and determination to succeed. Since they are both in the same boat -- the skilled, smarts, non-family based Green Card applicants suffer disproportionately -- I wonder which category you are now in. Are you trying to get a Green Card yourself (thru employment - like me ) or you are trying to get family members t come over from India. Umesh kamal deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is impossible for me to write responses according to the individual level of comprehension.If I do that, I will land up writing---ba ba black ship. First, you tried to advance an argument saying that family reunification program was not there 500 years ago and therefore it should not be there fore ever.That is too facile of an argument to make.Every era or every age has its own dynamics.What was held right 500 years ago may be perceived wrong in today's world.100 years ago,the slavery and segregation was a part of life here in America,does that mean those vices should have been allowed to continue till today ? Two wrongs don't make a right. The term immigration does not mean 'travel only as you have implied.You may consult a dictionary for proper definition. Tourists and immigrants are two different things. When did I say ' sharp guys should not be allowed to come ? I cited the example of Dr.David Ho just to stress the point that there are thousands of cases like Dr.Ho,who created novel things after arriving in the US under family reunification program.That should have been easily understood. You wrote that 50% of American marriages end in divorce and divorce breaks up a family.You seem to contradict yourself by saying so.That's exactly why I wrote in my previous mail pointing out to the fact that young Americans identified broken family as their greatest fear !!! Didn't I ? You also wrote that in order to meet one's family,one should take time off to meet them.If the meaning of ' family reunification' is just to meet the family once in a while by taking time off,then we might as well forget about the reunification of spouses too.They can meet each other once in a while and that's all .Is not it ? KJD On 7/8/07, umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So you mean that just becos one person did well and created HIV medicie so millions should be allowed in - whereas those adventurous and sharp guys who take the risk on their own should not be?? 50% of American marriages end in divorces so I do not see their fear of broken families -- divorce breaks up a family does it not? Third, if a person is a citizen of USA after coming here - I think s/he is entitld to bring along his/her spouse and underage children. It is easier to go from USA to India (22 hours) than it was for me to go from Delhi to Chennai (38 hours - by train). Most people in India never travel by plane - so have greater difficulty in meeting family -say an Assamese working in Bangalore - (40 hours atleast by train) than visiting India from USA. Even within the country people have to move elsewhere (in India ) to look for work --so there is no cure for that. Is there? If one wants to meet family -- take some time off from work and visit them!! Umesh kamal deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First thing first.As a sovereign country, the USA has every right to be bristling with prejudices as far as immigration policy is concerned.They should not be criticized for being harsh with the potential immigrants.However ,family reunification programme has been the cornerstone for the past few decades.I can think of three reasons as to why legal immigrants should be allowed to reunite with their
[Assam] English Assam Tea.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6277794.stm ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka---Manu's Memorial
C-da: The symbol can only be as harmless as the heritage it represents :-). Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chan Mahanta Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 2:01 PM To: assam@assamnet.org Subject: [Assam] From Tehelka---Manu's Memorial Is it a simple, harmless symbol of cultural heritage? Or is there a whole lot more to it? cm THE WORSHIP OF FALSE GODS http://www.tehelka.com/story_main31.asp?filename=Cr070707shadow_lines.as p ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Refinery pollution
I am sure the damage is far more then extinction of local species. One has to seriously look at the nature of effluents, the stock emitted over the last few decades and their long term impact. The state ought to institute an official scientific study immediately, calculate damages, impose a heavy pollution tax with retrospective effect on these refineries and use this for abatement of the stock of pulltants to the extent feasible (I am not sure how much can be done). Also, individual citizen groups could file public interest law suits seeking compensation from these public sector giants. If the federal government is unwilling to pay up with retrospective effect, the state could use this to cancel out outstanding dues to central government owned PSUs such as the electricity generating units. Of course, considering the meagre royalties that are paid to the state for the crude itself, it is foolhardy to hope for anything at all. Santanu. -Original Message- From: xourov pathok [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 7/2/2007 2:42 PM To: assam@assamnet.org; Roy, Santanu Subject: Refinery pollution santanu roy said: From BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6220892.stm i was talking to someone in guwahati this weekend, and he mentioned that some species of fish have disappeared due to pollution. x Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Some Assam rare book/map
I think it is important to distinguish between one's view of the present day political entity called India and the historical cultural connections of the subcontinent called India. The latter is equally Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Nepali, Kashmiri, Sri Lankan, Bhutanese (and Assamese or Bodo). In fact, it is a fuzzy set - some regions/communities being weaker members than others (depending on what attribute one uses). But the existence of the subcontinental heritage and connectivity is a reality that no one denies. The trouble begins when one uses that as a basis for political state formation. I am not saying this is unique to the Indian state. All political unions need collective fables and history is tailored to provide many - sometimes contrarian stories or myths to opposing sides. Not surprisingly therefore the proponents of independent Assam will reject some stories and accept others; while the proponents of the Indian union will do the opposite. It is better to recognize this, to know that there is nothing like a purely objective history, that it is a reflection of our own way of thinking about ourselves and our view of society and then, to move on. Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Ram Sarangapani Sent: Fri 2/23/2007 9:31 AM To: Rajiv Baruah Cc: Barua, Rajen; assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Some Assam rare book/map Hi Rajiv You do bring up some interesting things (on influences). is not widely known that for over a 1000 years Sanskrit and Indian culture was widely embraced in South East Asia in a manner very reminiscent of the enthusiasm for Americana that has captured the whole world now I agree commerce (and affluence - in the US, we call this malady- stricken by Affluenza) do have wide spread influences on language/culture etc. But look at some of the resistance we come across. In Assam (as you see Mukul da often expresses), we see that there are some in Assam who would like to de-link everything in Assam to anything Indian or Hindu or even Sanskrit. A lot of this is done for the sake of saving a fast eroding Assamese identity (and this is not commercial). While this is notable, there are some who would reject any Hindu or Sankrit or Indian influence just because of the sources they come from, and not really considering whether these influences are good or bad. --Ram da On 2/23/07, Rajiv Baruah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Ramda, Thank you for giving me an opportunity to sound off on my hobby horse - history of SE Asia. You mentioned there seems to be a lot of influence. There were a lot of influences but most went one way - from India to China via Buddhist Scholars or via South East Asia. It is not widely known that for over a 1000 years Sanskrit and Indian culture was widely embraced in South East Asia in a manner very reminiscent of the enthusiasm for Americana that has captured the whole world now. In that advance too the primary motives were growth of profits through trade, and a sense that the globally connected and laissez-faire culture that came with the foreigners was going to raise the standard of life of all who adopted it. Just as there was no military to reinforce the advance of Microsoft, Mickey Mouse or Michael Jackson, so too was the spread of Indianisation. There has been little sense that the advance had been planned or co-ordinated by political powers in the center of innovation, whether in India then, or in the USA now. And the linguistic effects are similar too: Sanskrit, like English now, had advanced as a lingua franca for trade, international business and cultural promotion. [ Nicholas Ostler's Empires of the World - A language history of the world has a full treatment on the spread and influence of Sanskrit in the first millenium] India can take the credit too for the spread of Islam in Indonesia and Malaya since it was the Gujrati merchants who were responsible for converting the Acehnese. best regards Rajiv ** ** ** [EMAIL PROTECTED], assam@assamnet.org *Subject: *Re: [Assam] Some Assam rare book/map This is very interesting. Browsing thru any of the Chinese supermarkets in the US, you come across Leeche. We say lechu. Don't which came from which, but it does seem there was a lot of influences. --Ram On 2/22/07, Rajiv Baruah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Folks, A small correction about scripts in South East Asia and in India. In Ashoka's time, there were about nine scripts in South East Asia, Indonesia and the Philippines, that were derived from Indian scripts, many thorugh the Pallava script. These SE Asian scripts are Burmese, Lao, Thai,Khmer, Javanese, Balinese, Tagalog (Philippines), Batak ( Sumatra) and Bugis ( Sulawesi). Incidentally, in the Cambodian pillars that carry rules for monastries, Sanskrit in Khmer script one one side is paralleled by Sanskrit in a North Indian script on the other.
[Assam] From today's NYT
February 6, 2007 Indian Army and Police Tied to Kashmir Killings By SOMINI SENGUPTA http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/somini_sen gupta/index.html?inline=nyt-per SRINAGAR, Kashmir, Feb. 3 - Amid a grove of poplar trees in a village just north of here, a grave was unearthed Thursday afternoon. Out came the body of a man, shot dead nearly two months ago, whom the Indian police described at the time as an anti-Indian militant from Pakistan http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritorie s/pakistan/index.html?inline=nyt-geo . An elderly man, who had been searching for his missing son for nearly two months, was summoned for the exhumation. He stared at the horror dug out of the ground and told the police what he had refused to believe all this time. He is my son, he said. Then he sat on the bare ground and shook. As it turned out, the dead man, Abdul Rehman Paddar, was not a Pakistani at all, nor a militant. He was a Kashmiri carpenter from a village south of here. The Indian police are now investigating whether he was killed by some of their own men, for motives that could range from personal revenge to greed. A suspected militant's body, after all, comes with a handsome cash reward. By Saturday, four police officers were under arrest in connection with Mr. Paddar's killing. S. M. Sahai, the chief of police for Kashmir, said his investigators were looking into whether at least two other bodies were part of the same ring; setups like the killing of Mr. Paddar are known here as encounter killings. Each of the victims had been killed in operations conducted jointly by the police and either an Indian Army unit or a paramilitary force that operates under army command, he said. By the end of the day on Saturday, as the investigation snowballed, a total of five bodies had been exhumed, all in the area surrounding Sumbal, and their identities were being checked. The exhumations have not only unearthed a deep well of resentment among the people of Indian-administered Kashmir, but have also forced the Indian government to face anew long-simmering charges of abuse by Indian soldiers and the police. Kashmiris have long accused the Indian authorities of disappearances and extrajudicial killings; one local human rights group estimates that 10,000 people have disappeared since the anti-Indian insurgency began here in 1989. Nor have civilians been immune to the savagery of militants; beheadings are among their favored tactics. India http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritorie s/india/index.html?inline=nyt-geo blames its rival and neighbor, Pakistan, for aiding and arming the insurgents. Pakistan denies the charge, and does not recognize India's claim to Kashmir. Claimed by both countries, Kashmir has been a center of strife for nearly 60 years. While the violence has calmed considerably since a 2004 peace deal between India and Pakistan, it has hardly ended the bloodshed or diminished the presence of Indian troops here. India says troop reduction can begin only when the militants lay down their weapons. Those troops have been blamed repeatedly for human rights abuses here, most recently by a 156-page report released last October by Human Rights Watch http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/h/hum an_rights_watch/index.html?inline=nyt-org , which detailed dozens of cases in which, it said, the state had failed to hold its security forces accountable for suspected abductions, killings and detentions. Among the most infamous of those cases were the March 2000 killings in the southern village of Pathirabal of five men, whom the army identified as foreign terrorists responsible for a massacre of Sikh civilians. The men, whose bodies had been burned and badly mutilated, turned out to be civilians abducted by the army, according to relatives and a subsequent federal investigation. In a rare instance of prosecution, five Indian soldiers were charged with the killings, but the case remains stuck in the courts nearly seven years later, and the accused remain on the job. The army insists that they be tried by an internal court martial, and not a civilian court. Human Rights Watch blamed the Indian government for what it called its lack of commitment to accountability and a series of Indian laws that shield soldiers in conflict zones like Kashmir. This has led to a serious climate of impunity, the report concluded. Indian officials have explicitly sought to use the latest cases of encounter killings to rebut accusations of impunity, pointing out that they have taken the lead in investigating army and police officials linked to what they call isolated abuses of power. This is an aberration, Mr. Sahai, the police chief, said in an interview in his office here in the summer capital of Indian-run Kashmir. This is not the rule. We have not tried to suppress anything. Whatever are the facts of the case have come out
Re: [Assam] Microbanking and Grameen
Dilip-da: Indeed there are major differences. The grameen bank micro-credit movement is about empowering the poor to take care of their credit needs by pooling their meager resources (and using that to attract outside credit to the group). It is about local self-monitoring which allows the group to exert social pressure on borrowers to pay back so that others can get their loan when their turn comes. Thus, the risk of default on repayment is automatically reduced - something formal sector financial institutions could never secure. This is not to deny it has also had its share of major problems. But the fact that over a million families are now covered by this scheme is a tremendous achievement. It goes to show us that transforming the lot of the poor does not necessarily require huge amount of resource input; it requires institutional change and institutional innovations - something at the decentralized grassroot level, not something built by and for the babus. As for the so called micro-credit led farmers suicides in India, I am rather appalled by the nature of arguments being made here. Everybody seems to believe that the problem is one of indebtedness caused by lack of cheap credit and that the solution is to pump cheap money into the hands of farmers. As I see it, this solution will make the situation far worse. The reason why we have such a sharp increase in suicides among farmers has to do with the fact that the degree of risk faced by these farmers has become substantially higher. This comes from two sources. One, they have switched to newer cash crops that are inherently more sensitive to fluctuations in weather and quality of other inputs so that the yield fluctuates much more. Two, they are integrated much more into the world market and therefore subject to much higher degree of price fluctuation because the global prices are sensitive to changing supply conditions in other parts of the world as well as global demand conditions. There is little by way of insurance against the cumulative risk faced by these farmers. Further, many of these farmers feel the need to earn a certain minimum threshold income to meet their subsistence need and to service past debt. Therefore, they prefer high risk alternatives. To see it simply - suppose you need 100 rupees to survive or pay interest on past debt (or meet your aspiration level). You have two options, one that gives you Rs. 80. The other gives with you Rs. 200 with 10% chance and Rs 20 with 90% chance. The latter is a terrible risk to take but you may take it in desperation because with 10% chance you will be out of the debt/survival trap, while the low risk alternative is certain to not meet your aspiration level. That of course means that 90% of farmers will perish badly. So, what does cheaper sarkari subsidized credit do in these circumstances? It simply makes you borrow and invest more heavily in the high risk crops. The government subsidies go towards subsidizing bad risk taking. And suicides. Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Dilip/Dil Deka Sent: Fri 10/13/2006 9:24 PM To: ASSAMNET Subject: [Assam] Microbanking and Grameen There is microbanking in India and many suicides were ascribed to it because farmers couldn't pay back. Then there is Grameen bank in Bangladesh, one form of microbanking, that has been widely successful and finally has won a Nobel prize. I was interested in learning the differences in approach in the two countries and have been reading up on the subject. The following site gives one a good account of Grameen and its successes. It looks to me, in India they are just reducing the loan amount and calling it a microloan/microbanking, whereas in Bangladesh there is a total new approach to it, to make sure that the borrowers can pay back and will, by using social entrepreneurship. Thus the words Grameen bank and microbanking are not synonymous. There is a little know-how involved. Dilip Deka [PDF] Grameen Bank - Microleasing File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML payment of the leased amount any time without any penalty. ... as well as access to other Grameen loan products induces the lessee to make timely. payments. ... www.gdrc.org/icm/a-dowla.pdf ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] From BBC
Higher malnutrition in South Asia than in sub-Saharan Africa. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6046718.stm ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] Marry into low castes for money.
The Indian government apparently wants to pay people for marrying into the two lowest castes (of each state). http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5346720.stm Question: If these financial incentives work (i.e., encourage more people to marry into these lower castes than would be the case if such incentives were not in place), then would not money be the critical factor causing these additional marriages (almost by definition) if so, is it socially desirable to have these additional marriages take place? Santanu. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Historic Math problem solved -CNN
It is indeed a landmark event. Some more interesting details about the mathematicians involved and the problem itself (Poincares conjecture) were contained in a New York times article Elusive proof, elusive prover last week: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/15/science/15math.html You need to be registered with NYT to get that article from the website. If you are interested and cannot download it, Ill be happy to send it to you. Santanu. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ram Sarangapani Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 10:58 AM To: AssamNet Subject: [Assam] Historic Math problem solved -CNN For those interested in this kind of stuff. http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/08/22/math.genius.ap/index.html ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] Insurance for farmers.
One of the important social instruments that can enable farmers to endure fluctuations in output caused by weather and other natural factors is the provision of insurance. Some of the problems of monitoring actual performance of crops and other moral hazard issues in rural India imply that private insurance companies may not serve such markets or if they do, charge exorbitant prices. I understand that, at least on paper, a central government sponsored national agricultural insurance scheme covering Assam has been in operation since 1999-2000 - that subsidizes and promotes provision of such insurance for a number of rabi and Kharif crops as well as some commercial crops. Its supposed to work through branches of public sector commercial banks and the gaon panchayat. The insurance premiums are not too bad - around 2 - 3 % of insured amount for most food crops - with 50% subsidy for small and marginal farmers. However, the scheme appears to have made little headway in Assam - I think less than 20,000 farmers are covered - a miniscule. I wonder if anyone knows the ground reality regarding agricultural insurance in Assam and the real bottlenecks there. Santanu. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Photos from Assam
C-da: These pictures are wonderfully aesthetic. We can only ask for more - Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chan Mahanta Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 10:01 AM To: assam@assamnet.org Subject: [Assam] Photos from Assam I have just uploaded a number of photos from my trip to Assam in December 2005. You can see them at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cmahanta-stl/ Click on the image for a larger view. cm ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] From the Hindu.
The picture caught my eye. http://www.hindu.com/2006/08/18/stories/2006081802191400.htm ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] positives vs negatives
Perhaps, the difference between the two points of view - for example, that of Xourov and Dilip-da - originates in whether one regards the significant dark sides of the economy - such as Assam and north east India - as simply transitory historical elements that will eventually be brought to light by certain well established socio-economic processes that are in operation or whether one sees the areas of darkness as essentially being on the other side of deep institutional fault lines that are very much exacerbated by the dominant socio-economic processes that operate in India today. Are the forces that contribute to sharp economic growth in the areas of light also directly and indirectly contributing to depression and stagnation in the areas of darkness or do they pull them up? Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of xourov pathok Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 5:03 PM To: Dilip/Dil Deka; assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] positives vs negatives --- Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Xourov, Why did you pick only a part of my email? The essence of what you wrote below was in the second part of my email. Did you read that part differently than I intended to convey? Dilip-da, If what I said agrees with what you said in the second paragraph, why are you piqued? Yes, I did read that part differently. More people must move on to the middle class is as innane a statement as one could come across. I suspect you said it because you are trying to apply the US model, which is a land predominantly of the middle class (which Katrina showed, is not actually true. There is a large but hidden lower class). The middle class in India is in fact growing at a tremendous rate now. But the rate at which it needs to grow to become dominant is just mindboggling. It is simply not possible. Moreoever, to sustain the middle classes in India also requires a lot of effort. Plus, there is a caste component to the middle class itself. This was on display in the recent anti-reservation agitation in India. The government made the present middle class possible by subsidizing education. At present, the government is now moving away from such subsidies. The easy access to education that you (or even I had) in India is now a thing of the past. Nevertheless, it was not my intention to focus on an unrealistic solution. My interest was to focus on the Assam situation instead---what the positives in the Indian economy mean for Assam. xourov I'd like you to know that I and many others like me do not believe that all is well in India. Some people are trying hard in India and they are seeing fruits of their labor. So why try to pull them down? I agree the Haves in India must constantly work to lift the living standard of the Have-nots if they want to maintain the pace of their achievement and live in India. Like I said if the likes of P Mishra are providing that vigil only, I have no complaint. Dilipda xourov pathok [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: + Pankaj Mishra's observations are not wrong but he is + emphasizing the negatives while playing down the + positives. Pankaj Mishra does not emphasize the negatives, but restores parity in the discussion. The negatives are never mentioned, which is what he is doing. + By playing with words no one can deny the fact that + Indian economy has improved. It is also a fact that + the wealth made in India is not well distributed. + Yes there is stark poverty in India but it is not + as bad as it was in the fifties and sixties. Though absolute poverty seems to have decreased, that alone does not speak of the problems today. By emphasizing only on the positives, one runs the risk of forgetting the other side and the associated risks involved. For example, farmers are commiting suicides, mostly due to debt and a lack of a viable agricultural policy. Manmohan Singh recently visited the areas and listened to the farmers. There seems to be an increasing problem of infant malnutrition and moratality in Maharastra in the tribal areas. Poverty data alone will not be able to catch these problems. In many other areas, as the government moves away from direct economic policies, the ultra-leftists have grown. The government now views this solely as a security issue, and local governments like the one is Jharkhand now wants to buy helicopter gunships to kill the naxalites! Besides forming village militia. From the experience in the northeast I hope you realise what this means-- a veritable civil war! The problems of regional disparity is all the more fearsome, and should be the focus of attention on Assamnet. If you looked at the per capita income over the years, you will see that whereas the average India index saw a rapid rise in the 1980s, the Assam index has not kept pace. Both have risen, of course, but the widening gap is a concern,
Re: [Assam] positives vs negatives
Xourav: I did not have any specific process in mind when I wrote that. I want to pose the debate not just in terms of positive and negative features (and which of these are more serious) but the relationship between them. Let me say at the outset that this is not something I clearly understand - like most of us, I only have small pieces and clues, and being so far from the country for so long makes me ill informed. But I am sure we would all like to hear what people think. Particularly, in the context of Assam. 1. Are there certain aspects of the boom in certain service and urban sectors of the Indian economy that may actually be detrimental to economic growth and poverty alleviation in Assam? In other words, is there a potential conflict of interest? 2. Does the emerging economy in India create implications for the political system that may inhibit the role of the state in creating conditions for economic growth in Assam and north east India? ..questions such as these. I realise you will be smiling as you read this. But lets just say, its my turn to ask questions. Santanu-da. -Original Message- From: xourov pathok [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sun 7/9/2006 5:37 PM To: Roy, Santanu; Dilip/Dil Deka; assam@assamnet.org Subject: RE: [Assam] positives vs negatives --- Roy, Santanu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perhaps, the difference between the two points of view - for example, that of Xourov and Dilip-da - originates in whether one regards the significant dark sides of the economy - such as Assam and north east India - as simply transitory historical elements that will eventually be brought to light by certain well established socio-economic processes that are in operation or whether one sees the areas of darkness as essentially being on the other side of deep institutional fault lines that are very much exacerbated by the dominant socio-economic processes that operate in India today. Are the forces that contribute to sharp economic growth in the areas of light also directly and indirectly contributing to depression and stagnation in the areas of darkness or do they pull them up? Santanu-da, Which socio-economic processes do you have in mind? xourov __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] Extinct quail sighted in Assam.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5125244.stm ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Fwd: Thomas Friedman: Are Latin Americans going to emulateIndia or get addicted to China?
I have no clue why this man thinks that the model of living off natural
resources is a China syndrome. I tried to read his book, but it irritated the
hell out of me.
Truth is that growth in both India and China are based on human capital. The
Chinese one is based on human capital tuned to working in manufacturing (which
is not as some would imagine unskilled), while the Indian model is tuned to
the service sector. As one of my former teacher is fond of saying China is the
world's factory and India is the world's back-office.
The orgin of this divergence is partially rooted in the very nature of Indian
and Chinese immigration to the west. Chinese human capital in the industrial
sector involves a lot of learning by doing - at home and abroad - acquired
through the century - partly by the overseas chinese (OC) labor force. The
Indian human capital is based on publicly funded technical higher education
(and more recently, its private sector off shoot) and the links established by
its cream - the NRI labor force in the last few decades.
Santanu
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Dilip/Dil Deka
Sent: Thu 6/22/2006 9:51 AM
To: ASSAMNET
Subject: [Assam] Fwd: Thomas Friedman: Are Latin Americans going to
emulateIndia or get addicted to China?
What did they feed Mr. Friedman in India that he is ga-ga over the India model
every time he writes? :-)
Dilip
===
Ram Narayanan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Thomas Friedman: Are Latin Americans going to emulate India or get
addicted to China?
From: Ram Narayanan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:35:21 -0400
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Dear Dil Dilip Deka:
Thomas Friedman turns the spotlight on an important choice that Latin Americans
face: Will they allow China to continue exploiting their natural resources -
timber, iron, soybeans, minerals, gas, fish meal -- to feed China's voracious
appetite and keep jobs and factories humming in China -- which, over the longer
run, will leave the Latin Americans poor OR will they focus as India does on
developing their human resources?
Cheers,
Ram Narayanan
US-India Friendship
http://www.usindiafriendship.net/
http://select.nytimes.com/2006/06/21/opinion/21friedman.html?n=Top%2fOpinion%2fEditorials%20and%20Op%2dEd%2fOp%2dEd%2fColumnists%2fThomas%20L%20Friedman
THE NEW YORK TIMES
Latin America's Choice
Are Latin Americans going to emulate India or get addicted to China?
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN, June 21, 2006
There are a lot of ways to describe Latin America's challenge today. Some will
tell you it's the age-old question of overcoming the staggering gap here
between rich and poor. Some will tell you it's rooting out corruption and
misgovernance. But I come at this issue with my own perspective, and I would
describe the big question facing Latin Americans this way: Are they going to
emulate India or get addicted to China?
This question was, at least implicitly, a subtext of the recent election here
in Peru. But it's true throughout this continent, which has always been better
at mining its resources than mining its people.
Let me explain by introducing Gabriel Rozman - a Jewish technologist of
Hungarian roots who was raised in Uruguay, educated in America and now heads
the Latin American operations of India's biggest software/outsourcing company,
Tata Consultancy Services of Mumbai.
Mr. Rozman runs Tata's Latin American business out of Montevideo, where 550
Uruguayan programmers, trained and directed by Indians, are writing code and
running the computer systems for companies all across this continent. They are
backed up by Tata engineers in India, Hungary, China, Brazil, Chile, Mexico and
Argentina. India now thinks Latin America is its backyard, too.
And so does China. China, though, is almost exclusively focused here
[Assam] Rent a wife - TOI
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1657309.cms It has been thought for some time (in a simplistic fashion) that the terrible sex ratio and selective live births in India will eventually be corrected by market forces as women become terribly scarce and start commanding a price in the marriage market thus encouraging parents to have more girls. What does this story suggest? Santanu. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] From NYT
The other side of progress in the areas of darkness: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/13/world/asia/13maoists.html?ei=5094en=f4fe1bc7bdee7158hp=ex=1144987200partner=homepagepagewanted=all ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] From TOI
Body language matters in Assam polls Its an instructive bit of news. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1465254,curpg-1.cms ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] caste system
and liberal values. The trouble with this approach is that in all honesty, you cannot be very sure of what it is you are clutching on to therefore, in the long run, are bound to run into certain contradictions - perhaps as your children question you *** Well said Santanu. But I am not sure the inquisitive children are enough of a deterrence to that attempt at living in a make-believe world. I have seen 'children' of those who would choose to live in a delusion, raised, indoctrinated and molded in the image of their parents :-), who grow up perfectly willing to perpetuate the myths and the delusions. At 9:57 PM -0600 3/26/06, Roy, Santanu wrote: Saurav, Thanks for your knowledgeable note. Two observations: 1. There are probably quite a few historical instances where castes have been fostered within a non-Aryan jati or community that has come into contact with mainstream Hinduism at a late stage. Indeed, the process by which an outside jati enters into mainstream Hindu society must logically consist of at least two social processes. First, the way the existing mainstream society - the upper castes - in particular, view the community in question - an exogenous aspect. Second, the way the jati views itself and reshapes redefines its own social stratification using the adopted language and mirrors of mainstream Hindu society -an endogenous aspect. Indeed, these two processes need not be congruent. The relics of these processes are found in several low caste untouchable communities that have their own Brahmins. To the mainstream outsider, they are all untouchable, but to the insider there is a caste system within - a microcosm of the society that lies above them. A similar stru! cture is also observed with respect to many tribes prior to the importing of Brahmins from mainstream society. 2. The varna system, like many other aspects of Hindu society, is in fundamental contradiction with modern society. The question in my mind is not whether Hinduism can be reformed. The real question is how will Hindus resolve these contradictions between what they ought to hold sacred and the needs of actual material life in today's society. One option is to stand by the varna system and all other traditional mores, to oppose liberal western values and in effect, do a fundamentalist jig. The other option is to gloss over and plainly deny the existence of all these aspects (as many on this net do) and then to march forward with a very selective view of Hinduism that is in consonance with modern society and liberal values. The trouble with this approach is that in all honesty, you cannot be very sure of what it is you are clutching on to therefore, in the long run, are bound to run into certain contradictions - perhaps as your children question you A third option would be to abandon the grand tradition altogether and, in effect, convert to religious orders that have their own philosphical systems that, even though historically rooted in the grand narrative, actually offer a distinct axiomatic system (Buddhism and Jainism were among the many such early orders, as were some of the Vaishnava orders). The third option is essentially fractious and inimical to the cause of a grand Hindu identity. But it may well be the most honest and logical way out for those who seek a religion. Santanu-da. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of xourov pathok Sent: Mon 3/27/2006 4:37 AM To: assam@assamnet.org Subject: [Assam] caste system a short note on the caste system: the varna system, which found its first mention in the rig veda itself, has been the only unbroken tradition of hinduism. gods have come and gone (from indra to rudra to krishna), forms of worship has changed (from yajnas to puja) but the varna system has persisted. there is an oft repeated dictum, that hinduism did not have a name for itself earlier. this is not true. the name of the religion was varnashram dharma. the varna system is the most defining aspect of hinduism. another dictum is that it divides. this also is untrue. in fact the varna system makes it possible for a jati to place itself in a readymade order. this is important because there is no personal conversion system in hinduism. instead entire jatis are converted (by placing them in the varna system), like the scythians and the koches were made hindus by placing them in the kshatriya varna. this is important. because it lets, say, a sarma or a barua from assam relate in a some meaningful way with a aiyar or an iyengar from tamil nadu. since the varna system is the most defining aspect of hinduism, how can you remove or reform it out of the religion? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo
Re: [Assam] caste system
Saurav, Thanks for your knowledgeable note. Two observations: 1. There are probably quite a few historical instances where castes have been fostered within a non-Aryan jati or community that has come into contact with mainstream Hinduism at a late stage. Indeed, the process by which an outside jati enters into mainstream Hindu society must logically consist of at least two social processes. First, the way the existing mainstream society - the upper castes - in particular, view the community in question - an exogenous aspect. Second, the way the jati views itself and reshapes redefines its own social stratification using the adopted language and mirrors of mainstream Hindu society -an endogenous aspect. Indeed, these two processes need not be congruent. The relics of these processes are found in several low caste untouchable communities that have their own Brahmins. To the mainstream outsider, they are all untouchable, but to the insider there is a caste system within - a microcosm of the society that lies above them. A similar structure is also observed with respect to many tribes prior to the importing of Brahmins from mainstream society. 2. The varna system, like many other aspects of Hindu society, is in fundamental contradiction with modern society. The question in my mind is not whether Hinduism can be reformed. The real question is how will Hindus resolve these contradictions between what they ought to hold sacred and the needs of actual material life in today's society. One option is to stand by the varna system and all other traditional mores, to oppose liberal western values and in effect, do a fundamentalist jig. The other option is to gloss over and plainly deny the existence of all these aspects (as many on this net do) and then to march forward with a very selective view of Hinduism that is in consonance with modern society and liberal values. The trouble with this approach is that in all honesty, you cannot be very sure of what it is you are clutching on to therefore, in the long run, are bound to run into certain contradictions - perhaps as your children question you A third option would be to abandon the grand tradition altogether and, in effect, convert to religious orders that have their own philosphical systems that, even though historically rooted in the grand narrative, actually offer a distinct axiomatic system (Buddhism and Jainism were among the many such early orders, as were some of the Vaishnava orders). The third option is essentially fractious and inimical to the cause of a grand Hindu identity. But it may well be the most honest and logical way out for those who seek a religion. Santanu-da. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of xourov pathok Sent: Mon 3/27/2006 4:37 AM To: assam@assamnet.org Subject: [Assam] caste system a short note on the caste system: the varna system, which found its first mention in the rig veda itself, has been the only unbroken tradition of hinduism. gods have come and gone (from indra to rudra to krishna), forms of worship has changed (from yajnas to puja) but the varna system has persisted. there is an oft repeated dictum, that hinduism did not have a name for itself earlier. this is not true. the name of the religion was varnashram dharma. the varna system is the most defining aspect of hinduism. another dictum is that it divides. this also is untrue. in fact the varna system makes it possible for a jati to place itself in a readymade order. this is important because there is no personal conversion system in hinduism. instead entire jatis are converted (by placing them in the varna system), like the scythians and the koches were made hindus by placing them in the kshatriya varna. this is important. because it lets, say, a sarma or a barua from assam relate in a some meaningful way with a aiyar or an iyengar from tamil nadu. since the varna system is the most defining aspect of hinduism, how can you remove or reform it out of the religion? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] The jewel in the Assam politician's crown -The Statesman
It is perhaps better that these scoundrels are elected every time. Otherwise, freshly elected representatives that are initially poor would engage in much greater intensity of wealth gathering activity. After all wealth gathering by politicians is not effortless. The fat old incumbents have lower incentive to engage in these activities than lean and hungry upstarts. Furthermore, if the electorate starts throwing out wealthy incumbents every election, then the representatives will know they have but one chance to gather all the wealth they can - this will really maximize the intensity of wealth gathering by politicians, term after term. Note that the alternative of staying poor for an elected representative really sucks. First, you may not get re-elected even if you stay honest. Second, your rivals will be some of the fat ex-incumbents with pots of money which will make it even less likely that you will be able convince the electorate that you are honest - the media will be controlled by the guys with money. Finally, if almost all political representatives have chosen to be wealth gatherers and you don't, the electorate will not trust your claim. Cynicism among voters will be a very logical outcome. Gimme the old corrupt guys any day. Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Ram Sarangapani Sent: Sat 3/25/2006 10:40 AM To: ASSAMNET Subject: [Assam] The jewel in the Assam politician's crown -The Statesman *If an average candidate's wealth is calculated at Rs 10.12 lakh, his wife is presented as being in possession of some Rs 27 lakh. - The Statesman* And yet, the voting public is extremely happy to re-elect these scoundrels every election cycle. ___ ** *The jewel in the Assam politician's crown* Statesman News Service GUWAHATI, March 24. - Assam is considered a poor state but its politicians live lavishly - apparently because they are married to wealth. These super-rich wives, not required to work for a living, are the stay-at-home type, deigning sometimes to be associated with voluntary organisations. Or, that is the impression which is being sought to be created. If their husbands have power, they have money; oodles of it, going by affidavits submitted to the Election Commission by the more than 500 candidates in the first phase of the forthcoming Assembly polls. Mandatory declarations indicate that the combined assets of the candidates' wives would be worth Rs 266 crore. The candidates' wealth adds up to a mere Rs 82 crore. And Mr Badarudin Ajmal, perfume mogul who is also the president of the Assam United Democratic Front (AUDF), alone accounts for Rs 16 crore of it. The candidates claim to have an average of Rs 3 lakh in cash to fight the elections but their wives are said to possess between Rs 6.3 lakh and Rs 43 lakh, apart from jewellery and other assets. If an average candidate's wealth is calculated at Rs 10.12 lakh, his wife is presented as being in possession of some Rs 27 lakh. The candidates' ornaments total Rs 3.10 crore in value; their wives', Rs 35 crore. Most candidates have declared that their wives own houses and land in many places. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
RE: [Assam] Ethinic Boundaries and the Margins of th e Margin -Bent D.Jørgenson
Ram-da: Moi-u buji na-palw. As I read the sentence: What is interesting here is that during every stage of this process, there are moments of conversion of dominating ethnic boundaries (upwards) and simultaneously, silencing of marginal subjectivities, i.e. to avoid any 'internal' ethnic boundaries. I realized it was beyond me. Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Chan Mahanta Sent: Sun 3/12/2006 2:44 AM To: Ram Sarangapani; ASSAMNET Subject: Re: [Assam] Ethinic Boundaries and the Margins of the Margin -Bent D.Jørgenson O' Ram, Ram-ram! Moribolew xomoy nai, tate' tumi eikhon mohabharot porhibole' dila. Can you give us a brief executive summary of Jorgenor-putekor puthi? Thanx in advance. c-da At 11:38 AM -0600 3/11/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Here is a Postdoc (thesis?) by Jorgenson. He has also dealt with the subject of ethinic boundaries in Assam. I have hi-lighted those relevant parts. It makes very interesed reading. He deals withquestions of identity, ethinic boundaries and marginalization of groups and places. Would be interested in netters' comments. --Ram _ ETHNIC BOUNDARIES AND THE MARGINS OF THE MARGIN: in a Postcolonial and Conflict Resolution Perspective Bent D. Jørgenson http://www.gmu.edu/academic/pcs/jorgens.htmlhttp://www.gmu.edu/academic/pcs/jorgens.html The clouds on the map would move, reform, disappear, break-up into pieces; the pieces would reassemble and new distinct areas would form; and the channels between them would expand, contract, and shift (Kopytoff, 1985, p.12). The theme of this paper is on one of the most elementary questions in the study of ethnicity and nationalism, namely how to approach and assess ethnic boundaries'. Should we perceive them as an advantageous or a pernicious tool in politics? To answer that question, we need a reference point; advantageous or pernicious in relation to whom? I will here use those people(-s) who are so marginalized that their voices are practically silenced, and the way in which the political reconstruction, conversion, or deconstruction of ethnic boundaries is favorable or not to them; the margins of the margin. Do ethnic boundaries, and particularly their political usage, illuminate and create preconditions for uplifting, visualization or in any other way favor the margins of the margin? And if yes, how does one handle the element of violence which is involved in the politicization and defense of such boundaries? On the contrary, if we suggest that ethnic boundaries should be deconstructed, how do we deal with the causes of ethnic boundary construction? In order to illuminate these problems, two approaches will be critically discussed and applied: Post-Colonialism and Conflict Resolution. In recent year these two approaches have gained some influence in International Relations theory. Postcolonialism addresses the problem of epistemic violence and marginality. One of the fundamental questions is: In what ways have the dominant discourses (particularly emanating in the West) marginalized, and still marginalized, subjectivities based on skin-color, gender, ethnicity etc. And normatively: How to combat this marginalization? The empire strikes (or writes) back, is a slogan both in the local and global political arena and, I believe, in ever growing pockets of the academia. This perspective or school of thought is present almost everywhere in the world, but especially in South Asia, the Middle East, Africa and the Caribbean. Parallel with the rising voice of marginality, the salience of ethnic and internal conflicts all over the world has fueled interest in conflict research in general and the conflict resolution in particular. Conflict Resolution has been an attempt to find general methods and schemes of solution, develop guidelines for mediation, and/or identify universal processes of conflict resolution in particular societies. Bosnia and Israel, among others, have been the targets for the attention of such practitioners of conflict resolution. Why are these two perspectives brought together into the same discussion? First, because they share a normative concern for the same fundamental problem, namely the reconstruction and deconstruction of ethnic boundaries. Concerning Postcolonialism, there is a clear emphasis on the transformation or conversion of ethnic boundaries from boundaries of marginalization to boundaries for 'strategic essentialization' (Krishna, Sankaran, 1993, p.405). Conflict resolution approaches ethnic boundaries as crucial 'complications' in processes of conflict resolution and of course of prime importance in processes of conflict escalation. Despite the strong normativity in both approaches, it is crucial to bear in mind that the margins of the margin play a role in the conflict dynamic itself, and therefore, the connection;
Re: [Assam] Terrorism in Varanasi
One should not forget the role of the
government particularly at the local level - and ruling political parties
inciting ethnic violence or allowing violence to grow. Whether one looked at
the Delhi riots of 1984, or Bombay,
or Gujarat or most other riots in India the ruling party and
the government machinery have played active roles. UP is today ruled by Mulayam
Singh Yadav and whatever his other problems his government would
not tolerate orchestrated public violence against Muslims. Even the Hindu fundamentalists
know this and were afraid they would rather move at the political level
and preserve dividends for the next elections.
Santanu
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Malabika Brahma
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006
1:45 PM
To: Dilip/Dil
Deka; ASSAMNET
Subject: Re: [Assam] Terrorism in Varanasi
Nice to see some rationalism amongst the commoners. What is needed now
is the much needed rationalism amongst the policy makers, though that is a lot
more to ask for at the moment.
Why ?
An average commoner in India
is not a criminal but going by the profile of the members of the Parliament in India the same
can not be said.
Utpal
Dilip/Dil
Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It had the potential to ignite UP but it didn't. Is it because Indians
have learned to differentiate between terrorism and Hindu-Muslim conflict? Is
it now evidentto the average Hindu in India
that the average Muslim in India
also hates terrorism just as much?
It is a group of small groups of people that is keeping terrorism alive
throughout the world. The common theme is that they erroneously believe that
they can keep their self-centered causes alive by creating commotion among the
general population. Otherwise why would there be bomb explosion in a temple,
church mosque or a school?
It appears to me that the bombs in Varanasi could have been planted by any
terrorist group,whether Muslim, Hindu or any other religion. It is a
relief that the Muslims in Varanasi
are not paying the price.
Dilip
==
Indian City Shaken by Temple Bombings
By SOMINI SENGUPTA
Published: March 9, 2006
VARANASI,
India, March 8 Their hushed
voices were drowned out by the howls of demonstrators. Just a stone's throw
away lay the gory wreckage of Tuesday's temple blast.
Skip to next paragraph
Enlarge This Image
Prakash Singh/AFP -- Getty Images
Indian security forces stand guard today outside the Kashi Vishwanath
temple in Varanasi.
Holy City on the Ganges
New York Times staff photographer Tyler Hicks visited the holy city on the
western bank of the Ganges.
Enlarge This Image
Rajesh Kumar Singh/Associated Press
Victims of two explosions that killed at least 14 people on Tuesday in Varanasi, India,
were cremated Wednesday. Chhote Lal Biskarma, above, lost his son in one of the
blasts. Security measures were increased throughout India
in response to the bombings in Varanasi,
a city holy to Hindus.
Enlarge This Image
Prakash Singh/Agence France-Presse {mdash} Getty Images
The Sankat Mochan temple in Varanasi,
dedicated to a Hindu deity, was damaged Tuesday by an explosion.
Enlarge This Image
Mahan Vatsyayana/Agence France-Presse - Getty Images
Security was tightened at the New Delhi
railway station and all across India
Wednesday after the bombings in the holy city of Varanasi.
But inside a small square
chamber on the compound of the Sankat Mochan temple on Wednesday afternoon sat
four men facing their monkey god and carrying out a job they had been paid to
do: chanting the name of a Hindu god as a prayer for a stranger who was sick.
Om Sri Ram, jai Ram, jai jai Ram, the men muttered through
the din and sensation. An interruption of the incantation could not be allowed.
Modern terror more than interrupted the rhythm of this 400-year-old
institution, as it did, in smaller ways, the rhythm of daily life in this
2,500-year-old city. A pair of homemade bombs on Tuesday evening tore through
the Sankat Mochan temple and the nearby city railway station, killing at least
14 and injuring more than 100.
Law enforcement authorities on Wednesday said explosives had been
stuffed inside a pressure cooker and left inside an inconspicuous bag at each
site. The police found a similar unexploded device at a busy city market. The
bomb at the train station left a wide shallow crater at the terminal; shrapnel
pockmarked the ceiling above. The police said they did not know who was
responsible.
The other bomb was set off at dusk in the courtyard of the Sankat
Mochan temple, dedicated to the Hindu monkey deity, Hanuman, as thousands of
worshipers gathered for the evening oil-lamp prayers. Tuesday is the most
auspicious day
Re: [Assam] AASU v ULFA - Sentinel News
I think a public debate and dialogue between AASU and ULFA NDFB on substantive political, economic and social issues would be very healthy. However, the AASU should also promote internal reform and try to become a more democratic students body rather a top-down structure controlled by old people - it should try to live up to the spirit of its name and constitution. The more they do so, the greater support and social legitimacy they will acquire. They have the potential to do a lot of good to Assam. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of mayur bora Sent: Sun 2/5/2006 1:19 AM To: Ram Sarangapani; ASSAMNET; Chandan Mahanta; Rajen Barua Subject: Re: [Assam] AASU v ULFA - Sentinel News It is good to see that the blurred dividing line between AASU and ULFA is becoming clearer over a period of time in the recent past. As things stand today, I have no hesitation to state that AASU is probably the only large organisation in Assam which is trying to do something to protect the interests of the Assamese. But they must do it for all the people who have made Assam their home irrespective of language, religion, community etc. Their recent mobilisation of support in favour of Debojit Saha of Silchar in Zee TV's popular show Sa Re Ga Ma will go a long way to dispel the mistrust between the people of Brahmaputra Valley and Barak Valley. To put it plainly, between Oxomiyas and Bongals. But they have to intensify their efforts in forging the unity among differnt tribes of the state before things go out of control. This is no doubt a challenging and herculean job. I wish all sensible people of the state will come forward to support such an initiative of the student organisation. Of course there are many issues where the student body has drawn lot of flak in the past from different quarters. But it appears that they have started taking lessons from the past. However, compare them with ULFA. I think less said about them is better. Not to speak of ULFA, AASU's contribution is much more than even Oxom Sahitya Sabha which has a flair for bitter politicking, quarelling and squandering public money in organising big annual literary (?) meetings where visitors end up buying more of knives and other stuff than any books. It is high time Oxom Sahitya Sabha should start thinking seriously about sahityas of not only assamese speakers, but that of our tribes also. Mayur --- Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *AASU advisor Samujjal Bhattacharyya said that the student body would go ahead with its war against the government-from Dispur to Delhi - till a secured future is guaranteed. There is a solution to every problem within the geographical territory of India, he said. Unlike the AASU, the ULFA has resorted to arms struggle and is demanding sovereignty, Bhattacharyya said, adding that the objectives of the student body and its ways to achieve them were quite different from those of the rebel group. * ** It is good to see the AASU seeing things clearly. We all acknowledge problems Assam faces vis-a-vis Delhi, BUT finding solutions within the Indian Constitution. Further AASU also makes it very clear that they are against 'arms struggle'. *--*Ram *AASU warns ULFA on frivolous statements 'Why silent on ISI, influx?' * ***By a Staff Reporter GUWAHATI, Feb 3:* Taking a stern note of the accusations made against it by the ULFA, the All Assam Students' Union (AASU) today turned counter-offensive and questioned as to why the outfit was silent on the alarming infiltration from Bangladeshi into the State. On Sunday, in its mouthpiece Swadhinata, the ULFA had alleged that the AASU was playing into the hands of 'Indian intelligence agencies' and thereby opposing the outfit's demand for sovereignty. Warning the banned outfit of making any such 'frivolous' statements in future, AASU president Sankar Prasad Rai said in a press conference here that the student body had always struggled for the cause of the indigenous people, and he asserted that the ULFA had made the allegations to hush up its own shortcomings. Rai said that the AASU would continue to oppose the sovereignty demand and there would be no second thought on it. AASU advisor Samujjal Bhattacharyya said that the student body would go ahead with its war against the government-from Dispur to Delhi - till a secured future is guaranteed. There is a solution to every problem within the geographical territory of India, he said. Unlike the AASU, the ULFA has resorted to arms struggle and is demanding sovereignty, Bhattacharyya said, adding that the objectives of the student body and its ways to achieve them were quite different from those of the rebel group. At a time when a positive development is in sight with the peace initiatives progressing and the AASU supporting the move, Bhattacharyya said: the ULFA should not have made such a comment. He said: It is the question
Re: [Assam] Threat to the assamese
Jugal: the inhabitants of Assam will not call themselves Assamese as we call ourselves today, they will call themselves Assamites or something else, based on the name of the land they occupy then, and not on based on the language they speak. I would welcome that day. Your characterization of the Assamese nationality as a linguistic identity is very shallow and not useful in the current political context. You probably don't regard anyone who does not speak the oxomiya langauage, as it is known today, as Assamese. I do. There are millions like me who have as much right to be Assamese as you do - based on the land they call their own. And mercifully they do not need the acquiescence of the linguistic Assamese to call themselves that way. Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sun 1/29/2006 5:28 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Roy, Santanu; assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Threat to the assamese I would like to counter Santanu's position. Jodihe Oxomiya bhaxa naikia hoy, tente Oxomiya jati aru nai. Gotike, if someone defends the society in Assam a few hundred years from now in an environment where Assamese as a language doesn't exist, then they are defending a new jati, a new populace. It's like if you look at North Dakota or South Dakota in the USA of today; the white Americans (majority in these states is Caucasian), they call themselves as being North Dakotan or South Dakotan, or in a generalized manner a Dakota! However, they are not the Dakota or the Lakota any more, the Dakota or the Lakota has almost ceased to exist. If the Assamese language is lost (and languages are disappearing from this world faster than you can imagine, especially if they have lost royal or governmentally supported national language status), the inhabitants of Assam will not call themselves Assamese as we call ourselves today, they will call themselves Assamites or something else, based on the name of the land they occupy then, and not on based on the language they speak. Jugal -Original Message- From: xourov pathok [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Roy, Santanu [EMAIL PROTECTED]; assam@assamnet.org Sent: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 21:44:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [Assam] Threat to the assamese Roy, Santanu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Saurav: I understand. But quite apart from the context in which this discussion arose - let us for a moment suppose that Bihu simply degenerates into a holiday - an excuse for urban young people to get drunk, play hindi music etc. In the extreme, lets suppose it simply disappears - no memory whatsover. For that matter lets suppose, all of the traditional festivals of all the people disappear. Would it imply that the people have lost themselves? Or that society has simply evolved that new festivals and new traditions grounded in the current social reality of the people have emerged. And in that changed reality, there will be a new perception of the people about their past that will allow them to alter the essence of what it means to be an Assamese. Hundred years from now, a new Xourav will be identifying threats to Assamese culture thar you - saurav - would consider to be sacrilege - will be fighting to defend a new language - that you might consider entirely alien today. Santanu-da. santanu-da, you know the answer to this as well as i do. it would by no means imply that the people have lost themselves. they would have have simply moved on. and indeed a new xourov would be listing the new threats to assamese society!! but you should be able to differentiate between two aspects of the issue. the objective reality---which is what i tried to portray, and the value of the of the cultural artifacts to me, personally. they are two different things. you know it, as well as i do. in one you attach a personal value, in the other you don't. somehow, the personal value provides a momentum, to sustain it in one form or the other. and as you mentioned in reply to utpal-da's mail, this is a natural tendency. saurav Bring words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Threat to the assamese
Saurav: Thanks for explaining. But based on what I know of you, I am not quite sure that personal sentiments are the only reason why YOU care about these issues. I may be wrong - but you probably see a future social value to conservation. You see, I wrote about this because I see it as a vexing problem. The current generation values certain attributes and wants to conserve it for the benefit of future generations. But the preferences of the future generations may be very different and are partly determined by how the current generation influences social change. Take the case of the natural environment. The case for conserving the natural environment is the value it will yield to future generations. Because we know they will value it. To not conserve, would hurt them (based on all current conception of what they and their world will be like). If you want to extend the same argument to cultural attributes (including language, religion etc) - it gets a bit dicey. It is qite possible and likely that a future generation may assign no value (apart from historical curiosity) to such objects. So when we ask for conservation, we also implicitly ask that social change ought to occur in such a way that the future generations will actually value what we want to conserve - in some sense, they should be somewhat like us. This is a much more difficult proposition. If we believe, the future generation will not care about laru pitha, then it is rational for us to actually not impart the skill of making laru pithas to our progenies. But because we do not teach our progenies how to make laru pitha or to value them, they will not value it. Thus, the disappearance of laru pitha becomes a self-fulilling conjecture. On the other hand, if we collectively modifed current society and not only taught our children to make laru pithas but also created the kind of social transition that allows the making and eating of laru pithas to flourish in the future, the value we place on conserving laru pithas fr the future could also be self-fulfilling. Is one self-fulfilling conjecture better than the other from a social point of view? I don't know. All I know is that it is probably in this context, that one must understand the historical role of conservationists of socio-cultural attrbutes. Sorry, I am not being very articulate. More later. Take care - Santanu-da. Santanu-da. -Original Message- From: xourov pathok [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sun 1/29/2006 2:44 PM To: Roy, Santanu; assam@assamnet.org Subject: RE: Threat to the assamese Roy, Santanu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Saurav: I understand. But quite apart from the context in which this discussion arose - let us for a moment suppose that Bihu simply degenerates into a holiday - an excuse for urban young people to get drunk, play hindi music etc. In the extreme, lets suppose it simply disappears - no memory whatsover. For that matter lets suppose, all of the traditional festivals of all the people disappear. Would it imply that the people have lost themselves? Or that society has simply evolved that new festivals and new traditions grounded in the current social reality of the people have emerged. And in that changed reality, there will be a new perception of the people about their past that will allow them to alter the essence of what it means to be an Assamese. Hundred years from now, a new Xourav will be identifying threats to Assamese culture thar you - saurav - would consider to be sacrilege - will be fighting to defend a new language - that you might consider entirely alien today. Santanu-da. santanu-da, you know the answer to this as well as i do. it would by no means imply that the people have lost themselves. they would have have simply moved on. and indeed a new xourov would be listing the new threats to assamese society!! but you should be able to differentiate between two aspects of the issue. the objective reality---which is what i tried to portray, and the value of the of the cultural artifacts to me, personally. they are two different things. you know it, as well as i do. in one you attach a personal value, in the other you don't. somehow, the personal value provides a momentum, to sustain it in one form or the other. and as you mentioned in reply to utpal-da's mail, this is a natural tendency. saurav - Bring words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Saint Valentine
Dilip-da: There are still hell of a lot of people in India who know exactly how to separate religion from sex and have absolutely no private guilt about sex. Its just that nowadays, these people are not allowed to engrave walls of temples - or for that matter, caves :-). Those pure of the body and opposed to sensuality do the engraving nowadays - for fat Bania businessmen. As for poor St. Valentine - why drag him to Khajuraho and Kamasutra. Isn't it fairly obvious that the opposition to Valentine's day reflects one of the fundamental conflicts of society in heartland urban India - between the haves and have-nots - the urban young male that have healthy access to feminine company outside of immediate family (whether by dint of class or culture...) and the masses of other urban young men that are denied such access (and who are often taught to look down on the femine companions of the other group as sluts). Male jealousy is a terrible thing As for the so called ideological opposition to MNC infused firangi culture, I wonder how come such opposition is not displayed in other more substantive matters. When I left India, I had never heard of Valentine's day. So when a dear old friend from the Phillipines, who was my house mate in gad school, chirped one morning (rather uncertainly) - will you be my Valentine - I said no to her and walked out. It was the silliest thing I'd ever heard. Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Dilip/Dil Deka Sent: Sat 1/28/2006 10:45 AM To: Chan Mahanta; Ram Sarangapani Cc: Himendra Thakur; assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Saint Valentine It just means some Indians knew how to separate religion from sex and did not feel guilty about sex. Aren't we fortunate that the same people used the walls of caves to engrave, thus enabling us to know today what their life was like? = Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You may be right on those two counts Ram. I have to make some distinction there. But what about Konarak, Khajuraho and the debauchery of the gods as recorded in the mythologies/scriptures fit in ? c-da At 11:32 AM -0600 1/27/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da, ** Where did the Kama-Sutra come from? ** Or the culture of Yoni Pujas and the pervasive worshipping of Shiva's you-know-what? Isn't there a difference between brazen displays of sexuality and those that in art form? The Kama-Sutra, I suppose is recognized as an art form. Compare it to Michelangelo or other European art forms, I don't see much difference in which art is viewed. With reference to Hindus praying to the Gods represented by ... whatever, from what I understand, the Shiva is NOT so much a brazen representation of a sex object but more spiritual and for praying to the Gods for human preservation, procreation, health etc. Just my thoughts --Ram On 1/27/06, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While I am with Himen-da on his revulsion with the abject commercialism associated with this particular imported day of celebrations in India, once again I have questions about attempts to deny and revise history: ** Where did the Kama-Sutra come from? ** As a student of architecture I had the -- um-- opportunity ( or do I have a singularly impure body/mind?) of ogling the eye-popping sculpture depicting mass orgies of debauchery by desis of a distant past ( pardon my propensity for alliteration this morning) at the Sun Temple at Konarak, not too far from that holiest of holy Hindu sites--Bhubaneswar. Is that a desi-heritage , or was it yet another result of some phoren invaders military or corporate or religious or cultural, despoiling them desi-minds ? ** Or the culture of Yoni Pujas and the pervasive worshipping of Shiva's you-know-what? ** What is the basis of the entire Tantric movement--faith, art, literature? ** And the glorified and recorded debauchery of the gods and goddesses as widely recorded in Hindu mythology? ** What is the basis of the Kamakhya temple's origin? Need I repeat it here in mixed company? Echoing uncle scrooge, I say, bah humbug! It is an eruption of Victorian puritanism and attempts at hiding what could not be hidden. :-) At 11:40 PM -0500 1/26/06, Himendra Thakur wrote: MISUNDERSTANDING St. VALENTINE'S DAY An article by Himendra Thakur [EMAIL PROTECTED] Boston, Massachusetts, USA It is rather unfortunate that the Saint Valentine's Day is misunderstood in many parts of India as something western, something sensual, something alien to
[Assam] Crush ULFA militarily: Assam governor
Now you know: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1387496.cms ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Himendra's reply to Saurav
Dear Utpal: I am glad you wrote this I thank you for doing this. However, I would like to add that it is also natural for groups to try to preserve and conserve their current beliefs, culture, language the path that history takes, the changes that come are as much a product of the conservationist forces as of the forces of change brought through meeting and co-habitation of formerly distinct groups. There remains an important historical and evolutionary role for the point of view that Kalita is trying to put forward even if one disagrees with the principle. Santanu. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Malabika Brahma Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 12:28 PM To: assam@assamnet.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Assam] Himendra's reply to Saurav I would disgree with both Jugal da and Himenda. Religion, Language, Culture, Nation all are constantly evolving over time and will always undergo change. Any resistance is not only futile but also against the normal and natural course of history. For example, most of the Assamese (Koches) speakers or for that matter the Bengali speakers in North Bengal were Bodo speakers at one point of time. Does it mean that the Koches should abandon their Assamese or Bengali speech and return to Bodo fold ? Or for that matter, Mithraism was the dominating religion all over Middle East and Europe before Islam or Christianity. Should all of them (those Christians or Muslims) abandon their faith and return to their ancient religion ? We should learn to realise that NONE is ever eternal - be in Religion, Language, Race or Nationality. The ONLY ETERNAL FACT is the Change itself. Utpal Rajib Das [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: people of Assam to remain Hindu, but become Hindi-speaking!! I am not sure what history has in store for Assam, but I would like the language preserved for eternity!! Jugalda, Conversely, would you be happier if the people of Assam keep Assamese as a language but become all Muslims? Let go of all the secular customs and traditions that are associated with Assamese being Hindus? And in alternative situations, would you rather the language be Hindi-ized (meaning significant Hindi influence) or Arabicized (significant Muslim influence) if these are the only two options available? Bengali in Bangladesh is undergoing rapid transformation as the country itself transforms into a fundamentalist state. Just interested in understanding your point of view? Rajib __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Conspiracy?
I think Ram-da is far too intelligent to be Sanjoy Hazarika by even a long stretch (I once read one of Hazarika's books - never read anyone so shallow, hollow and devoid of analytical reasoning). Further, Ram-da is an honest man, that rules out Dhiren Bezbaruah. Now, RAW . hmmm, if only THEY had some sense :-) Which reminds me - about ten years ago, I lost my passport and went to the Indian embassy in The Hague to renew it. A rather unremarkable place, except for the stench outside arising due to lower level orderlies not being allowed to use the couple of toilets inside (used by the higher babus, I guess). Anyway, the officer in the consulate - a fat munda Punjabi - suddenly called me in -offered a cup of tea and asked me to write in Dutch newspapers. Dumbheaded as I am, it took me about ten minutes to realize what he wanted when he said we will tell you what to write about, we will supply the material I asked him why he didn't write it himself. He said he wanted someone authentic to write it - who better than a faculty member in a Dutch university. I said sure and asked him if he could expedite my passport. It was ready in a half hour and I didn't have to go back there again. I am not confident that with such limited skills, they can hire someone like Ram-da. Santanu -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of mc mahant Sent: Wed 1/25/2006 11:10 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Conspiracy? Ram,You sound all so lucid and authentic! You will be prime material to be hired by: RAW as porpagandist,copywriter Sentinel as Editor C-Net(Sanjoy Hazarika+Dhiren Bezboruah+RAW) as Patron Strike when the iron is hot. mm From: Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: ASSAMNET assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Conspiracy? Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:33:02 -0600 D da, While it is difficult to convince the ULFA supporters that such a nexus existed or exists even today, there are several things that cannot be just phoo-phooed. Without B'deshi support, it would have been impossible for ulfa to sustain itself. B'desh provides them shelter, arms, and in return ulfa possibly pays them in Indian rupees (which are a premium in B'desh) from frequent extortions. Without ISI help and training/logistics/arms to ulfa it would have been impossible for the outfit stay to still be around. Supporters of an independent Assam should place their bets well. They will need to know whether a country like B'desh will STILL provide them the support a new nation will need, will stop sending hordes of illegals across into the new country, and ISI will not use Assam as a theatre for jehadis? Many supporters for independence think that Assam as an independent nation will be left alone in peace to prosper and develop. With huge nations around, in today's world that is virtually impossible. Every surrounding country is going to want a piece of the political, religious, demographic, real estate, Assamese identity pie. I was reading some articles (last year) where there was some discussion on how B'desh and Pakistan would find it very beneficial if they could carve out the whole NE from India. That in it self may not make India any weaker (militarily), but it sure will provide prime real estate, and a fertile area for these two rogue countries to play their games and harness the NE resources. Unfortuantely, the Assamese (post independence) will just have to sit back and say 'take it away and can you please spare us some change'? Officially B'desh, like Pakistan plays the innocent bystander. They will swear up and down that do not provide any material support (only moral support!). But the results/ effects tell a different story. One only hopes that India realizes that in B'desh she has nurtured a 'Xaap'. B'desh is an ungrateful nation and how soon they have forgotten that it was India that was instrumental in that wretched country attaining freedom. Today, B'desh is more aligned to Pakistan than to India. -- Ram On 1/24/06, Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are these two items from today's Sentinel based on facts? Or just hear-say and speculation? = Letters to the editor http://www.sentinelassam.com/sentinel_en/letters.htm Editorial A Wider Conspiracy The manner in which oil pipelines and power transmission towers are been
Re: [Assam] Fwd: Complaint Against Honorable Chandan Mahanta
With such high standards of literary expression as in the forwarded mail - the assmnet may well consider going for a print edition. The author even uses the term analytic/synthetic dichotomy - wow - good schooling in philosphy, perhaps freshly, and in classical writing. I hope the author Barua will consider writing more regularly. SR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Ram Sarangapani Sent: Mon 1/23/2006 2:16 AM To: Chan Mahanta Cc: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Fwd: Complaint Against Honorable Chandan Mahanta C'da, Me too. Even gibberish could end up looking like high-falutin' stuff. It sure does. Its that 'damn language thang' acting up again. But this is more benign than the other stuff you get from time to time. --Ram On 1/22/06, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 10:40 AM -0600 1/22/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da, At least you would agree that the author (this Barua) seems to have a pretty good command over the language and a good vocabulary (I had the dictionary open). *** You would be right Ram, if knew WHAT language it is you refer to :-). ---but really love these statements. Chandan has an almost mystical faith in insurrectionism or - Me too. Even gibberish could end up looking like high-falutin' stuff. From my experience (and thats not much) there are only a handful of NRAs with those talents (if the author is a NRA). Other than that, I really couldn't zero in on any one complaint, but really love these statements. Chandan has an almost mystical faith in insurrectionism or If you don't think that you shouldn't take threats made by the worst kinds of judgemental fomenters of evolution there are too seriously, then you've missed the whole point of this letter. or Stick your nose into anything Chandan has written recently, and you'll get a good whiff of besotted priggism or If Chandan continues to perpetuate the nonsense known technically as the analytic/synthetic dichotomy,crime will escalate as schools deteriorate, corruption increases, and quality of life plummets. His idea of effete Fabianism is no political belief. Words/phrases like judgemental fomenters, besotted priggism, analytic/synthetic dichotomy and effete Fabianism definitely need to be treasured for future use. --Ram On 1/22/06,* Chan Mahanta* [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: X-Originating-IP: [38.10.4.227] From: Tilok Hatimuria [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Complaint Against Honorable Chandan Mahanta Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 06:34:34 PDT Dear Raiz: This oomplaining bidness seems to have found a life of its own under the tutelage of Sri Pathak and his notorious Complaint Website referral. Now Sri Barua gets involved too. I think it is good that people are learning to get their lumps off their craws. I am not one to take sides in these net-wars of ours. But I wonder if the fall guy here really deserves it. But what the heck--give it to him. Somebody needs to get kiced :)! A bit of verbal 'uttom-moghyom' never hurts. Dr. T, LAS Thank you Saurav, For your Complaint and opening my eys. But I thought it over and have found that the actual culprit is none other than our Honourable Chandan Mahanta. So here is my two cents complaint aginst him in public: My complaint about Hon. Chandan Mahanta Because of Hon. Chandan Mahanta's attitude, I usually don't respond to his invectives, but this time I'll make an exception. You see, I myself honestly believe that the Chandan Mahanta Foundation's latest report on nutty Pyrrhonism is filled with fabrications, half-truths, innuendo, and guilt by association. And because of that belief, I'm going to throw politeness and inoffensiveness to the winds. In this letter, I'm going to be as rude and crude as I know how, to reinforce the point that Chandan has an almost mystical faith in insurrectionism. I'll say that again, because I want it to sink in: One could make a strong argument that it's undeniably time to put up or shut up. If you don't think that you shouldn't take threats made by the worst kinds of judgemental fomenters of revolution there are too seriously, then you've missed the whole point of this letter. Stick your nose into anything Chandan has written recently, and you'll get a good whiff of besotted priggism. With this in mind, I must get him off our back. He offers two reasons as to why jingoism and elitism are identical concepts. He argues that (1) anyone who disagrees with him is ultimately raving, and (2) the Universe belongs to him by right. These arguments are invalid for the following reasons: First, he insists that his decisions are based on reason. This fraud, this lie, is just one among the thousands he perpetrates. Contrast, for example, Chandan's smears with those of dastardly prophets of feudalism, and
Re: [Assam] Agradoot News Item 2
Dear Mayur: If it has not been clear from my postings, I think I should make clear that I am not any kind of fan of armed rebellion or civil violence. Personally, I am a strong believer in radical decentralization, free market economy and liberal western-style democracy achieved through civil political movement of the kind advocated by MK Gandhi and ML King. I also believe that means are as important as the ends. I understand there are times when people may have to take up arms to defend their rights, but it cannot be the basis of any kind of long term social change. Parag, as I knew him closely till 1985, would certainly have agreed. If Assam is to have its own destiny, apart from being a loose appendage of the Indian society, entitled to its meagre trickle down that hardly transcends the chicken neck, then it needs emerge as a political nationality that goes beyond ethnic division and have a vision of a future society that is realistic and promising. I don't know when that will happen. About 30 - 40% of the people in Assam are, like me, Bongals (not Bengalis, but Bongals) and almost all of them foresee nothing but ethnic cleansing out of an ULFA success. It is immaterial why they feel that way, what is important is that they definitely do. A vast majority of the supporters of ULFA think, as an important netter recently clarified, Assamese is a language, not a religion. Nationality building - trancending language - based on a vision of Assam as a salad bowl rather than a melting pot - has a long long way to go. Just because we won't talk about the contradictions between the ethnic groups, doesn't mean they will go away. Despite all this, it is important to have a process of negotiations between the GOI and the ULFA. First, it puts the agenda on the table reminding mainland India about the issues. Second, it politicises the ordinary people in Assam. Third, it offers a hope that somehow there may be truce some day that will allow breathing room for a more meaningful nation building to emerge. It is important to support this process and to encourage it. And it is important to support human rights of all people. Santanu-da. -Original Message- From: mayur bora [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sat 1/21/2006 9:45 PM To: Roy, Santanu Cc: Assam Organisation Subject: Agradoot News Item 2 Is this a small step or a giant leap towards a better, brighter and stronger Assam ? For me, it is clearly a reprehensible step. I am not for status quo. But alternative to the status quo must have the promise of a better tomorrow. I can see a glimmer of hope in the overground mass movement you mentioned a few days back in assamnet. If we can have such kind of movement (like Assam Agitation in the past), then we don't need any armed rebellion against the state. Parag da trenchantly criticised ULFA's excessive emphasis on arms and money during their heydeys. Ultras did not pay any heed. We have seen the results now. After his brutal murder in Guwahati, they announced that the killers and conspirators have been identified and will be punished soon. Not to speak of the punishment, they have not named anyone till now apart from dishing out some usual vague staff. My disillusionment and serious doubt about their capability to bring about anything good for the state is neither very old nor very sudden. It has developed over a period of time which coincided with their fast becoming a group of people without any genuine concern for the state. They dreamt something big and rosy, strived towards it, sensed it is unattainable soon but unfortunately did not adopt any other alternative method to end the status quo. This clearly shows their unwillingness to learn from the past and result is visible for everyone. Mayur __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Dainik Agradoot
I concur - Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sat 1/21/2006 4:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Dainik Agradoot Mayur Reference your note to Santanu. You're indeed a brave man like those two young boys to have penned this note. I congratulate you. Bhuban ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Dainik Agradoot
Mayur: Once again, could you please explain why MRG is derailing the talks by shooting off her mouth? If you read the newspapers, you will often hear of Palestinian suicide bombers blowing up people in Israel. After that the press routinely asks Israeli Palestinian leaders whether this will derail the peace talks. They often answer in the negative - the peace process will go on. This does not mean they are condoning or encouraging suicide bombing (Sometimes they say this may derail the talks and that is a signal that something has gone seriously wrong). In this instance of the ransom note episode, she thought it will not derail the talks. I am really surprised that someone like YOU should think that this means that she thinks extortion is OK and should go on. I also did not see the point of bringing in the story of the schoolmaster being killed to this context - what do you want to say, that MRG is also condoning murder - that she is actually the public protector of wanton killings? That anyone who tries to facilitate talks with the demons in ULFA are are morally condoning the murder in Dhemaji - that any solution other than a miltary one where the last ULFA member is shot dead is actually morally reprehensible and unacceptable - is that it? Santanu Roy. -Original Message- From: mayur bora [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Fri 1/20/2006 4:48 PM To: Chan Mahanta; Assam Organisation; Roy, Santanu; Rajen Barua Subject: Re: Dainik Agradoot C' da Hor are you ? Writing for the first time in the new year. By being 'analytical', I don't want to belittle the extreme courage shown by those two boys in response to the dastardly and heinous act perpetrated by 'the sunshine boys' in the name of Assam's independence. I will not be surprised if MRG gets influenced and starts acknowledging Dhemaji Misdeeds of your freedom fighters as 'normal' after reading some of the recent posts in assamnet. I can only hope that she does not come near a computer in the near future. Like any responsible citizen in society, she is entitled to have her own viewpoints regarding anything. But she must be very careful in making public pronouncements as she is trying to bring about much needed peace in Assam by facilitating talks beween GoI and ULFA through PCG. She should not give opportunity to others to accuse her of derailing the talks in future by recklessly shooting off her mouth. Mayur --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why don't you share YOUR views with us first Mayur? Do tell us about what you think. Of course we expect YOU to be analytical about it, and not respond with some simpleminded explanations :-). c-da At 8:21 AM -0800 1/19/06, mayur bora wrote: I would like to have response from our esteemed netters on this news item. Mayur Mayur Bora Chandigarh __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Content-Type: application/msword; name=Doc1.doc Content-Description: 1164191332-Doc1.doc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=Doc1.doc Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:Doc1.doc (WDBN/MSWD) (00816EFE) __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Demand note is ULFA's: IGP (SB) Sentinel
I don't see the point of hitting out at Mamoni-baideu just because she did not condemn the ULFA for the note received by some bloody oil sucking organization. Who do you think she is? She is not the ULFA, nor their point-man. She is not a cop. It is not her job to make balanced political statements, investigate truths and morally chastise errant parties. She has been trying to get the negotiations going and that's exactly her role. By doing that she performs a far greater service to the people of Assam, then all of the great living writers of Assam (I guess this is what irritates quite a few people - the attention she has received). This, despite my belief, that these negotiations are not going to work. And yes, it would be a great boon to Assam (despite the jobs lost) if the oil suckers left and allowed the state to conserve its deposit of an exhaustible natural resource instead of feeding it at sub-market prices to the ever hungry Indian economy. Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Rajen Barua Sent: Thu 1/19/2006 6:11 AM To: Ram Sarangapani; ASSAMNET; Chan Mahanta Subject: Re: [Assam] Demand note is ULFA's: IGP (SB)Sentinel Re: [Assam] Demand note is ULFA's: IGP (SB) SentinelSince the ULFA has neither admitted nor denied the issuance of the demand note to the ONGC, it is too early to draw a conclusion on the authenticity of the letter. It may be because MMG is a writer, who by nature of her tribe normally likes to think rather on the right hand side of the brain, but she definitely has problems with basic logic which is controlled as we know by the left hand side of the brain. Normally, an unbiased logical mind (just normal garden variety type) would like to draw the following conclusion instead, Since the ULFA has neither admitted nor denied the issuance of the demand note to the ONGC, it is too early to say that the letter was not from ULFA. Be that as it may, the demand note to the ONGC will not hamper the peace process since extortion by militants is not unusual. It is like saying, thik ase, hobo diok baru, tewlwok baru bea manuh, apwna lwke ki korise. Apwna lwke negotiate nai kora karonehe tewlwke bhoi dekhuaise. No MMG, it HAMPERS the PEACE PROCESS BIG TIME. And Chandan already said, GOI will not be THE looser. Upai Nai!! RB - Original Message - From: Chan Mahanta To: Ram Sarangapani ; ASSAMNET Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Demand note is ULFA's: IGP (SB) Sentinel Heh-heh-heh! So MRG too is one of the bad-guys now? GoI can mouth off peace mantras, frothing in the mouth about how there is no problem that could not be resolved with 'democracy', while hunting down ULFA, without nary a whimper from the now-outraged. What is surreal here is for the same FAIR and NEUTRAL folks to be outraged when ULFA plays its cards. Come on Ram. Give us a break! Who are you kidding? At 2:11 PM -0600 1/18/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Noted writer Mamoni Raisom Goswami, talking to The Sentinel today, said: Since the ULFA has neither admitted nor denied the issuance of the demand note to the ONGC, it is too early to draw a conclusion on the authenticity of the letter. Be that as it may, the demand note to the ONGC will not hamper the peace process since extortion by militants is not unusual. Highlights are mine. I can't believe this. Be that as it may So, is it Kay Sara, Sara, Dr. Goswami? or is hope against hope that the ULFA can do what it pleases, but the GOI must hold parleys under any circumstances. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org -- ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Demand note is ULFA's: IGP (SB) Sentinel
What is this politics of ONGC-GOI-ULFA that she is indulging in? Can you explain? -Original Message- From: Ram Sarangapani [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thu 1/19/2006 6:46 AM To: Roy, Santanu Cc: Rajen Barua; ASSAMNET; Chan Mahanta Subject: Re: [Assam] Demand note is ULFA's: IGP (SB) Sentinel I don't see the point of hitting out at Mamoni-baideu just because she did not condemn the ULFA for the note received by some bloody oil sucking organization She is not the ULFA, nor their point-man. She is not a cop. It is not her job to make balanced political statements, Is it her job to make unbalanced political statements, for which you claim she has no expertise? This job as a 'negotiator' is a tough job and personal biases have to be kept at bay. If as you say she is NOT the front man or the point person, then why would she indulge in the politics of ONGC-GOI-ULFA if she has NO understanding, and show her bias (toward ULFA). By doing that she performs a far greater service to the people of Assam, then all of the great living writers of Assam (I guess this is what irritates quite a few people - the attention she has received In THIS particular case, she is making it more difficult for the job she or others have entrusted upon her as a 'negotiator'. Thats a disservice to the people of Assam by putting hurdles on the way for peace talks. As for writers - I am sure there are some who are jealous of her 'limelight'. Fortunately, you won't find them in these shores. And yes, it would be a great boon to Assam (despite the jobs lost) if the oil suckers left and allowed the state to conserve its deposit of an exhaustible natural resource instead of feeding it at sub-market prices to the ever hungry Indian economy. And of course the stupid people at the GOI will also leave all the infrastructure and whatever technical know-how just as easily. No, they would just STILL keep drilling, and ONLY make sure it is located in Bihar or West Bengal. No, the bottom-line is, if that were to happen, Assam the Assamese would still lose. On 1/18/06, Roy, Santanu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't see the point of hitting out at Mamoni-baideu just because she did not condemn the ULFA for the note received by some bloody oil sucking organization. Who do you think she is? She is not the ULFA, nor their point-man. She is not a cop. It is not her job to make balanced political statements, investigate truths and morally chastise errant parties. She has been trying to get the negotiations going and that's exactly her role. By doing that she performs a far greater service to the people of Assam, then all of the great living writers of Assam (I guess this is what irritates quite a few people - the attention she has received). This, despite my belief, that these negotiations are not going to work. And yes, it would be a great boon to Assam (despite the jobs lost) if the oil suckers left and allowed the state to conserve its deposit of an exhaustible natural resource instead of feeding it at sub-market prices to the ever hungry Indian economy. Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Rajen Barua Sent: Thu 1/19/2006 6:11 AM To: Ram Sarangapani; ASSAMNET; Chan Mahanta Subject: Re: [Assam] Demand note is ULFA's: IGP (SB)Sentinel Re: [Assam] Demand note is ULFA's: IGP (SB) SentinelSince the ULFA has neither admitted nor denied the issuance of the demand note to the ONGC, it is too early to draw a conclusion on the authenticity of the letter. It may be because MMG is a writer, who by nature of her tribe normally likes to think rather on the right hand side of the brain, but she definitely has problems with basic logic which is controlled as we know by the left hand side of the brain. Normally, an unbiased logical mind (just normal garden variety type) would like to draw the following conclusion instead, Since the ULFA has neither admitted nor denied the issuance of the demand note to the ONGC, it is too early to say that the letter was not from ULFA. Be that as it may, the demand note to the ONGC will not hamper the peace process since extortion by militants is not unusual. It is like saying, thik ase, hobo diok baru, tewlwok baru bea manuh, apwna lwke ki korise. Apwna lwke negotiate nai kora karonehe tewlwke bhoi dekhuaise. No MMG, it HAMPERS the PEACE PROCESS BIG TIME. And Chandan already said, GOI will not be THE looser. Upai Nai!! RB - Original Message - From: Chan Mahanta To: Ram Sarangapani ; ASSAMNET Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Demand note is ULFA's: IGP (SB) Sentinel Heh-heh-heh! So MRG too is one of the bad-guys now? GoI can mouth off peace mantras, frothing in the mouth about how there is no problem that could not be resolved with 'democracy', while hunting down ULFA, without nary a whimper from the now-outraged. What is surreal here is for the same FAIR
Re: [Assam] Demand note is ULFA's: IGP (SB) Sentinel
A littany of sarcasm does not add up to an explanation. You have not provided ANY information on why your allegation that she is in indulging in POLITICS of bla-bla-blah is justified. I think you don't have a justification. I think you guys are simply using an opportunity to bad-mouth someone who you otherwise dislike - probably because you feel she is close to the ULFA. Making a comment like Since the ULFA has neither admitted nor denied the issuance of the demand note to the ONGC, it is too early to draw a conclusion on the authenticity of the letter is not equivalent to indulging in politics. As far as I am concerned, it is a statement of fact as she perceived it at the time she made a comment to the media. If I am wrong, show me why. She is not an arbitrator. She does not have to be neutral. She is NOT a part of the negotiations, she is simply a public facilitator that the GOI or the ULFA can use if they mutually wish to chat or find out if the other side wishes to chat. She is not trying to create a meeting of minds and an agreement. She is simply trying to ennsure that there are talks. It is not her role to soft pedal and maintain a delicate balance. She is not the American president at Camp David. -Original Message- From: Ram Sarangapani [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thu 1/19/2006 7:40 AM To: Roy, Santanu Cc: Rajen Barua; ASSAMNET; Chan Mahanta Subject: Re: [Assam] Demand note is ULFA's: IGP (SB) Sentinel What is this politics of ONGC-GOI-ULFA that she is indulging in? Can you explain? Well the ONGC is that 'oil-sucking' company that you referred to. Obviously, they are after their own interests and little else. The GOI is the inept govt. entity which is after everything in Assam. And the ULFA obviously is looking after the interests of Assam and the Assamese by extorting huge sums from the petty trader to giant blood-sucking entities like the ONGC. So, I was wondering why a nice lady like Dr. G would even bother to make it her business to make comments where none were warranted (at least from her, and her position). On 1/18/06, Roy, Santanu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is this politics of ONGC-GOI-ULFA that she is indulging in? Can you explain? -Original Message- From: Ram Sarangapani [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thu 1/19/2006 6:46 AM To: Roy, Santanu Cc: Rajen Barua; ASSAMNET; Chan Mahanta Subject: Re: [Assam] Demand note is ULFA's: IGP (SB) Sentinel I don't see the point of hitting out at Mamoni-baideu just because she did not condemn the ULFA for the note received by some bloody oil sucking organization She is not the ULFA, nor their point-man. She is not a cop. It is not her job to make balanced political statements, Is it her job to make unbalanced political statements, for which you claim she has no expertise? This job as a 'negotiator' is a tough job and personal biases have to be kept at bay. If as you say she is NOT the front man or the point person, then why would she indulge in the politics of ONGC-GOI-ULFA if she has NO understanding, and show her bias (toward ULFA). By doing that she performs a far greater service to the people of Assam, then all of the great living writers of Assam (I guess this is what irritates quite a few people - the attention she has received In THIS particular case, she is making it more difficult for the job she or others have entrusted upon her as a 'negotiator'. Thats a disservice to the people of Assam by putting hurdles on the way for peace talks. As for writers - I am sure there are some who are jealous of her 'limelight'. Fortunately, you won't find them in these shores. And yes, it would be a great boon to Assam (despite the jobs lost) if the oil suckers left and allowed the state to conserve its deposit of an exhaustible natural resource instead of feeding it at sub-market prices to the ever hungry Indian economy. And of course the stupid people at the GOI will also leave all the infrastructure and whatever technical know-how just as easily. No, they would just STILL keep drilling, and ONLY make sure it is located in Bihar or West Bengal. No, the bottom-line is, if that were to happen, Assam the Assamese would still lose. On 1/18/06, Roy, Santanu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't see the point of hitting out at Mamoni-baideu just because she did not condemn the ULFA for the note received by some bloody oil sucking organization. Who do you think she is? She is not the ULFA, nor their point-man. She is not a cop. It is not her job to make balanced political statements, investigate truths and morally chastise errant parties. She has been trying to get the negotiations going and that's exactly her role. By doing that she performs a far greater service to the people of Assam, then all of the great living writers of Assam (I guess this is what irritates quite a few people - the attention she has received). This, despite my
Re: [Assam] Demand note is ULFA's: IGP (SB) Sentinel
I am quite amazed. You think that her statement: *Be that as it may, the demand note to the ONGC will not hamper the peace process since extortion by militants is not unusual.* IMPLIES: at least one of the following 1) she thinks Extortion is OK 2) they existed before, why bring it now 3) Its not a big deal - let the negotiations begin 4) she is making excuses for the ULFA in a bad situation 5) The GOI should keep the negotiation process on, inspite of what the ULFA does. You are entirely wrong. Its none of the above. If you read the statement carefully, she is making a positive statement about what she thinks is going to happen (not about what should have or Ought to have happened, not a moral judgement). She is analysing the poltical prognosis. She is answering the questiondo you think talks are going to break down because of this?'. She is saying NO, its not likely to hamper the peace process. Then she explains why she thinks so. Because even if ULFA is indulging in extortion one must not forget that, as a matter of realpolitik, militant organizations often indulge in extortion and at the same time peace negotiations with the government go on. Again, this is a positive analysis, not a normative statement about what ought to be. Let me elaborate further. Throughout the negotiations with the NSCN or the MNF , not a single truck passed through Nagaland or Mizoram without paying taxes to the parallel government, not a single business remained open without paying pots of money to the miltants. Did not negotiations with the GOI proceed even then? Why? Not because extortion is moral or was condoned by the authorities. Negotiations went on simply because it was in the interest of both parties to continue. Thus, the bottomline of her statement is that she feels negotiations will go on despite the extortion. By the way, I don't think you understand the difference between a facilitator, a negotiator, a mediator and an arbitrator. Things will become clearer once this is untangled. For the time being, I am tired of writing any more about this. -Original Message- From: Ram Sarangapani [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thu 1/19/2006 9:01 AM To: Roy, Santanu Cc: Rajen Barua; ASSAMNET; Chan Mahanta Subject: Re: [Assam] Demand note is ULFA's: IGP (SB) Sentinel OK, Let me try and explain (btw - the portion you took out was actually besides the whole point, but nevertheless). The question of ULFA/GOI meeting for peace talks is a highly charged atmosphere. Here you have everybody from the Home Ministry, to the Governor, the CM, the PM, Ulfa making comments to suit their own situations. Contary to your assumption, I do recognize MRG as a prolific writer, but as a 'negotiator' she has (by virtue of being one) put her credibility on the line. Not her credibility as a writer, but as a negotiator. Making a comment like Since the ULFA has neither admitted nor denied the issuance of the demand note to the ONGC, it is too early to draw a conclusion on the authenticity of the letter This statement is fine and it would have been construed as someone telling us 'not to jump to conclusions' No one should have a problem with that - I certainly don't. But you seemed to deftly leave out statement we were discussing: ie: *Be that as it may, the demand note to the ONGC will not hamper the peace process since extortion by militants is not unusual.* ** So, what on earth does this statement mean? Extortion is OK? Or they existed before, why bring it now? Its not a big deal - let the negotiations begin? Is she making excuses for the ULFA in a bad situation? The GOI should keep the negotiation process on, inspite of what the ULFA does? What? If I am wrong, show me why The above is where you went wrong. The above statement by her is the problem, not the one you quoted. She is not an arbitrator. She does not have to be neutral If thats the case, we should not be calling her a 'negotiator' or a facilitator. What would you call her? She obviously is not facilitating any chats, if she is in the habit of making politically charged comments. She is simply trying to ennsure that there are talks Good, but is she doing that? What is the difference between her comments and the Governor's (who also is in the habit of making irresponsible comments). It is not her role to soft pedal and maintain a delicate balance Then let her declare as such - that she is speaking on behalf of ULFA's interests. Then she needn't soft pedal at all. But she can't have it both ways - on the one hand a negotiator of sorts and on the someone with a biased mindset in this regard. I think you don't have a justification. I think you guys are simply using an opportunity to bad-. Is it bad-mouthing if you tell the truth. I did not put those words into her mouth - she said it. But if you want us to give her a pass, sure we can. someone who you otherwise dislike - probably because you feel she is close to the ULFA Heh! heh
[Assam] Tea
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4516582.stm ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] WITH MAGH BIHUR WLOG AND XUBHESSA TO EVERYBODY
One should not forget that Bihu is about having fun without denying its significance on the almanac. For example, in Assam, the winter is relatively mild by the second week of January one can stay up the night of urukka and even take a dip in the water early morning (or a shower, if you will) just as the meji is lit. It would be less comfortable during the winter solistice. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mc mahant Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 11:49 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] WITH MAGH BIHUR WLOG AND XUBHESSA TO EVERYBODY Critical comments are welcome Can I dare critcize.? Bihu dates must CHANGE: Magh Bihu should be on the same date as X-mas =25 Dec Bohag Bihu should be same as Good Friday. Kati Bihu-abandoned-irrelevant in days of processed food and warehousing. Why cling tothe meaningless? Happy URUKA feeds with Bangla Sitol MAAS! mm From: Rajen Barua [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: assam@assamnet.org Subject: [Assam] WITH MAGH BIHUR WLOG AND XUBHESSA TO EVERYBODY Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 09:42:23 -0600 Today is Assamese Magh Bihu: On this occasion, I am attaching an article written by me on the significane of the Bihus in Assam. We have been told from our childhood that we Assamese have 3 Bihus: Bohag Bihu, Kati Bihu and Magh Bihu. But we also had a fourth Bihu which was called the Xaun Bihu (Summer Bihu) which the Assamese have lost andhave forgotten about it. In fact the only reference to this Bihu I found was in a footnote of a book written by the great Assamese scholar Dimbeswar Neog. Since the Bihus have astronomical significane, I was alwayscurious why we don't have a fourth Bihu. Finding the much needed reference of the fourth Bihu, I was able to connect the dots in the astronomical map and prepare this article, Four Assamese Bihus and their Astromonomical Significane'. The article was published in Assam Tribune under a different name and without the Astronomical chart I have included here. In the article, I have also made the notation that the Assamese (as well as the Hindu) Calender is off by 24 days from the Tropical Calender followed in the West, for instance, this Bihu was supposed to have been occured on the Winter Solstice (Makar Sankranti) which was actually 21st December, but we celebrate it on 14th January. Thisgap (or lag) occuersdue to the precession of the earth (the earth wobbles) which the Hindu Calender need to adjust to. Critical comments are welcome. XOKOLW RAIJOLOI MAGH BIHUR WLOG ARU XUBHESSA JONALW Rajen Barua Houston FourAssameseBihusandTheirAstronomicalSignificance.Jan06.doc ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Reforms - The CONCLUSION
Utpal: I agree with your vision. The way I see it - in the short run, there is almost nothing substantive that one can get the GOI to accede to in terms of effective decentralization of power or plebscite or any other adjustment to the political relationship between Delhi and Assam. The babus and polticians that run Delhi are under almost no pressure at all. Chandan-da suggested that the pressure might come from the fact that New Delhi wants to look like a big world power and carry international prestige it can't do that with an armed rebellion and suppression of liberty in one part of its country. I actually don't think that India has any such ambition. India want to be China in terms of international leverage. China routinely suppresses even peaceful peasant movements by brute force. International power follows from aggregate economic and military might. It does not require internal democracy or liberty. Countries like today's India, China, current Russia, Iran, Turkey are not very civil (I know I am going to be lynched for saying this)- they do not aim to project their power through moral superiority of their internal social order. The only way a rebellion in Assam would threaten India's ascendency would be if it made India look unstable. But like Chechnya or even the Kurdish border in Turkey, Assam is almost a detached fringe of Indian society. It cannot destabilize India as of now. As I see it, the GOI thinks of negotiations with ULFA as basically a process of waiting till the latter is ready to surrender - the only talk it wants is to check out if they are ready for that - and if that ever happens, they have a stdandard face saving formula that they will offer - bits of special powers for the state, maybe inner line permit, lots of central funds (to fatten the leaders) and a political process to return them to power in the state elections. As I see it, the ULFA has no reason to accept such an offer at this point. Therefore, I see no closure in sight. I also agree with you that hope lies in history. None of us concievably imagine what the geopolitical map of the world will look like 20 or 30 years from now. To take advantage of historical opportunities (like your third world war), one needs to have a strong civil movement at the grassroot level - a cohesive nationality formation process. That is much harder than armed insurrection. Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Malabika Brahma Sent: Sat 1/14/2006 10:57 AM To: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Reforms - The CONCLUSION Ram da asked some very practical questions. We all know that the GOI is controlled by politicians who gives a damn if Assam or NE bleeds to death. Here is the fact (as stressed by Santanu ) Those who control GOI are politicians who care less for the people of Assam and NE and care less for the lives of soldiers that die in NE. So achieving independence through an armed struggle is next to impossible. The only way independence can be achieved are: 1. By making constitutional amendment to include instrument of secession in Indian constitution and influencing upon the GOI to hold a plesbicite in Assam/NE and hope that majority of the people vote for secession. But this can not be achieved unless there is move to build a consensus in the National level. 2. By hoping that a 3rd world war breaks out and GOI finds it impossible to manage the present political India. Actually in my opinion 2nd world war is what helped India win its independence from the British. It became too expensive for Britain to maintain its colonies because of its involvement in the war. This again is highly unlikely. May be Chandan da or Mike da knows some other Practical Means of achieving independence that we are missing. That's why I think Independence of Assam/NE is excellent to have but not possible to achieve. So why build castles in the air ? But yes, if we can force GOI to hold a plesbicite, that will be the greatest victory. What will be the outcome of the plesbicite , is left to speculation of course. But one thing we have to understand, for Government of India , ULFA and NDFB may not count, but for Assam and NE, they are our boys after all. When one ULFA/NDFB member gets eliminated, one of my brother or sister is getting eliminated. Utpal Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: C'da, Just to keep things in prespective, this is what Priyankoo asked Himen da (to Himen da's statement) ** Do you have any plans or ideas how these people can be controlled or eliminated? If yes, then what have our previous generations been doing in the last 50 years to eliminate/ control those people? The sins of fathers ought not to be visited upon the sons :) What Priyankoo asked is legitimate, but in the present scenario seems like he is simply passing the buck from this
Re: [Assam] What prevents India from holding a plesbicite
C-da: I agre with all of this. But an armed rebellion is not likely to succeed on its own. One needs a civilian political movement above the ground for three reasons. One, to build up and establish internationally visible political legitimacy for the demand for secession (this is distinct from the moral legitimacy of the demand that you allude to). Second, to articulate and formulate a blueprint for the proposed state in transparent direct interaction with people. This cannot be done from the barracks. Third, and this is far important than all of the above, to actively foster nation building across the thnic groups in the state. To have a nation state, a pan-Assam political nationality beyond ethnic identities must emerge. This is also not possible without a long term civil movement. My thoughts were in connection with how one might find room for a civil political movement even within the current political landscape. In the history of the world, no armed rebellion has been sustained more than few decades without a definite strong civilian political process above the ground. If the demand for secession is based on the fact that Assam and the states of north east India are colonies of India - then, one must also understand that no empire minds insurgency or armed rebellion that only affects the colonies. For them, its a nuisance at worst. Finally, I do not think the current negotiations are going to lead to any settlement in the near future. Santanu. -Original Message- From: Chan Mahanta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue 1/10/2006 11:13 PM To: Roy, Santanu; Malabika Brahma; assam@assamnet.org Subject: RE: [Assam] What prevents India from holding a plesbicite Hi Santanu: A few quick thoughts about your thoughts. Gotta run for a bunch of meetings this morning. Is that unconstitutional? I mean, is it unconsitutional to demand an amendment to the constitution? I don't think so. *** I don't know the answer. But since the constitution was NOT something given down to a bearded man on a mountain top engraved in stone tablets by God himself, and it was something devised by imperfect men, who did NOT represent all of the disparate constituents of the union and under circumstances not entirely under their control and/or free will; one will have to believe that it is an instrument that should and could be amended and corrected, to reflect the need of the times. There is nothing inherently sacrosanct about a constitution. Much more so in the Indian context, because it is violated by its custodians everyday, with the institutions of governance UNABLE to prevent its debasement. The Indian constitution's sanctity is a myth, created by people in power, by majoritarian diktat, and not thru democratic means where minority rights have credible and effective built-in protections. *** The question of the constitutional constraints in dealing with the issue of secession aspirations of a people could arise ONLY if the constitution has been mutually acceptable with a credible track-record for safeguarding the interests of the many disparate constituents of the union, as they were promised at the time of accession. Take for example the case of Manipur, in which the accession was forced by imprisonment of its King by a lowly Indian army Brigadier at the orders of Sardar Patel. If it is not so accepted by EVEN ONE of the constituents, then it is fair game to be disavowed by the aggrieved party. That would be a natural law. Oh, yes there would be the issue of might is right. Just as it has played out in the subcontinent since independence. And that is why the armed rebellions. More later! At 10:07 PM -0600 1/9/06, Roy, Santanu wrote: One must recognize that all it takes for India to recognize the right to secede and a procedure for secession of states is to have a constitutional amendment. That's not very tough - its been done over 50 times. Now, one can rephrase the demand for referendum and right to secession as a demand for such a constitutional amendment. Is that unconstitutional? I mean, is it unconsitutional to demand an amendment to the constitution? I don't think so. Now, suppose a political party was floated in Assam that demanded an amendment to the constitution - in this instance, with particular reference to procedure for secession of Assam. Suppose it contested the election on that platform and won a strong majority of seats. Would that be almost equivalent to a preliminary vote on demand for self determination? I am just thinking aloud. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Chan Mahanta Sent: Tue 1/10/2006 12:30 PM To: Malabika Brahma; assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] What prevents India from holding a plesbicite Chandan da thinks he is right. *** I am perfectly willing to SUBMIT to the will of the people of Assam, as expressed in a free and fair plebiscite. Heaven knows
Re: [Assam] What prevents India from holding a plesbicite
One must recognize that all it takes for India to recognize the right to secede and a procedure for secession of states is to have a constitutional amendment. That's not very tough - its been done over 50 times. Now, one can rephrase the demand for referendum and right to secession as a demand for such a constitutional amendment. Is that unconstitutional? I mean, is it unconsitutional to demand an amendment to the constitution? I don't think so. Now, suppose a political party was floated in Assam that demanded an amendment to the constitution - in this instance, with particular reference to procedure for secession of Assam. Suppose it contested the election on that platform and won a strong majority of seats. Would that be almost equivalent to a preliminary vote on demand for self determination? I am just thinking aloud. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Chan Mahanta Sent: Tue 1/10/2006 12:30 PM To: Malabika Brahma; assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] What prevents India from holding a plesbicite Chandan da thinks he is right. *** I am perfectly willing to SUBMIT to the will of the people of Assam, as expressed in a free and fair plebiscite. Heaven knows they have suffered enough. May be most of the people in Assam want seperation from India or may be they don't. *** And if they had a shot at expressing themselves, AFTER they had an opportunity to EXAMINE the TRUTHS about their condition ( as thru a free and unfettered discussion/debate of all pertinent issues), if they choose to remain with India and share their dysfunctional state of the state, so be it! I shall forever hold MY peace on that. And I salute YOU Utpal, for being able to think like that ( not that I had a doubt).But can Ram? Can Rajen? Can Himen-da ? Can the so many amongst us who sing the praises of democracy on the one hand, but shall not accord the same to the people of Assam, or of Kashmir? I hope someday the nation called India will be matured enough to incorporate the instrument of seccession in the constitution. *** Me too. But we all know the reality. At 11:23 PM + 1/9/06, Malabika Brahma wrote: Chandan da thinks he is right. So does Rajen da or Ram da or Mike da or my self. May be we all are right or may be not. It does not matter what I or you feel (the elites of Assam) , what really matters is what the people of Assam feel. May be most of the people in Assam want seperation from India or may be they don't. There is easy way to find out. Hold a plesbicite under a free neutral environment and avoid all bloodshed. But somehow I think the present form of GOI does not have the moral courage to face the free and fair ballot that would decide the fate of Assam or NE for that matter. Also the question is whether pro-independence groups of NE have the moral courage face the same. I hope someday the nation called India will be matured enough to incorporate the instrument of seccession in the constitution. Ut! pal Brahma http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/uk/taglines/default/cars/*http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/Yahoo! Cars NEW - sell your car and browse thousands of new and used cars online http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/uk/taglines/default/cars/*http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/search now ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Fw: FRIENDS OF ASSAM
Dear Himendra-da: Thank you for explaining clearly - Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Himendra Thakur Sent: Fri 1/6/2006 8:34 AM To: assam@assamnet.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Assam] Fw: FRIENDS OF ASSAM - Original Message - From: Himendra Thakur To: Roy, Santanu Cc: Ram Sarangapani ; mc mahant ; MANOJ KUMAR DAS ; Indrajit Barua ; J Kalita ; Dilip/Dil Deka ; Dilip K. Datta ; Barua25 ; assam@assamnet.org Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 3:21 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] FRIENDS OF ASSAM To: Mr. Santanu Roy Dear Santanu, IF the infiltration of illegal Bangladeshi infiltrators into Assam is not stopped, there will be a political collapse of the Assamese in Assam, which will lead to collapse of Assamese civilization. I did not use the word emulate while citing the the example of Shiv Sena. With all regards and sympathy to the frustration that gave rise of Shiv Sena in Maharashtra, I must emphasize that the Assamese must not emulate Shiv Sena, the Assamese can do better than that. I urge our friends in the assamnet to ponder, invent, innovate and suggest as to how the Assamese can do better than the Shiv Sena. I thank you for raising clear questions. I hope I have given clear answers. With love to everybody, Himendra To: Mr. Rajen Barua Houston, Texas Dear Rajen, I completely agree with you when you said: When I visited this time, I met many people in Assam who will agree with us to do something staying on the democratic path. In fact we formed two informal groups in Guwahati and Jorhat (another one being formed now in Dibrugarh) to start something on grass root level. We are naming it Friends of Assam and the North East (FANE). I want to become a member of FANE. Kindly give me the name/telephone/email of the FANE office-bearers in Guwahati, Jorhat and Dibrugarh so that I may contact them. Reference of Lakhi Raibaruah brought in a lot of memories which make me sad because he is gone. Life is such a puzzle ... ended by death. The only way to defeat Death is to work for the Society, because, whereas individual life is always terminated by Death, the Society continues. If we can safeguard the Society, we can face Death and say: Death, You are defeated! mrityu, tumi parasta hola the last words of the drama Momor Ghar. With love to everybody, Himendra - Original Message - From: Roy, Santanu To: Rajen Barua ; Himendra Thakur ; assam@assamnet.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; MANOJ KUMAR DAS ; Dilip/Dil Deka ; Dilip K. Datta ; J Kalita Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:07 AM Subject: RE: [Assam] FRIENDS OF ASSAM So, just out of curiosity and since many people seem to be more or less agreed on this, in what exact sense is Assamese civilization supposed to be facing an imminent collapse? What is this political collapse we are talking about - the one that the ordinary people of Assam are in denial about though filled with terrible anxiety? The only explicit thing I could make out from the postings was Bangladeshis! and some call to emulate the Shiv Sena. Is that all? Santanu. -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rajen Barua Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 11:43 AM To: Himendra Thakur; assam@assamnet.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; MANOJ KUMAR DAS; Dilip/Dil Deka; Dilip K. Datta; J Kalita Subject: [Assam] FRIENDS OF ASSAM Dear Himenda: Thanks for your response. I don't know if you could connect me with my name. I am Rajen from Houston, Texas. Boonmama (Raibaruah from Kohima) , my wife's uncle is our common connection. That is why I say, you are not in touch with the NRAs. Otherwise also I am aware of your literary activities from 'Don't Burn My Daughter to various Assamese Dramas being played in Assam. Anyhow that apart, I am really glad to receive your response. Firstly I am glad to see that a talented intellectual with vision and energy like you has finally decided to act for Joi Ai Oxom. Otherwise, observing from a distance your energy being spent on 'dowry' issue all these years, I was also asking the same bottom-line question: What is there for Oxomi Ai? We all know, 'dowry', like caste system, is mainly a mainland Indian problem, not a problem for Assam to loose sleep. That is why I am really glad that you have decided to shift your gear to act for the cause of Assam. Secondly I am glad to see that we agree in some of the basic issues regarding the problems of Assam and what and how to act. There are many issues and problems that we need to be concerned and act for Assam. If talented Assamese like you donot think and do, who will do. We may disagree in some details. But we will have to act like Aton Buragaohain and learn his tactics how to keep the society united and act together. I will therefore
Re: [Assam] Metric time?
Baro baazi jaabo aamar. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dilip/Dil Deka Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 2:34 PM To: Ram Sarangapani; ASSAMNET Subject: Re: [Assam] Metric time? What a bonanza it will be for the watchmakers! Think of all the watches and clocks that will need to be replaced! Dilip Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I saw this letter sometime ago in some other newspaper, but here it is from the AT today. It is an interesting idea. But, having become so accustomed to the AM/PM stuff, I think, this will be a bit too much. I am still having problems with military time. (in India most businesses, I have come across, talk military time). I afraid this new metric system, if implemented will unbalance my internal clock. Imagine we would 2.4 hour units (a day divided by 10 metric hours). So, what would 10 am be in this new system - 4.1667 MH (Metric Hour, if I am correct), and 10 PM would be 8.33 MH. The other idea - the New Henry Calendar. With 6 days a week this may be a big havoc on daylight savings. Methinks, I am just getting too old for such drastic changes. --Ram Metric measure Sir, The New Year of 2006 will begin late by one leap-second. It reminds me of the idea of metric measure of 'time'! The world rightly opted for a metric system of most measures (except time) doing away with haphazard measures in old units. Priority should be given to introduce metric measure of time with each day having 10 metric hours instead of present 24 hours. Each metric hour may have 100 metric minutes with each metric minute of 100 metric seconds thus making a day of 10 metric seconds instead of present 86400 seconds. Thought should also be given to new Henry's calendar which would make the same week-day for every date of each year. Rather Henry's formula of having months of both 30 and 31 days can be further modified to have 11 months of 30 days each with just six days per week. The twelfth month of December may have an extra week of six days in leap years and five days in non-leap years. Yours etc., MADHU AGRAWAL, Dariba, Delhi. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Assam Trip-2
Dear Chandan-da: Thank you for writing about the RVC. It was very uplifting. I think we should try to do something to help in our own small ways whenever we can. Of course, hats off to the people who dedicate their life and skills to such organizations. For me, a greater sign of hope is the fact that an environment for such voluntary enterprises exists now. I dont think it would have been possible fifteen or even ten years ago. The success stories of some skillful and dedicated NGOs in other parts of the country (along with the bad eggs that are just out to make money), the recognition they receive now from society at large and the incentives from international bodies and global voluntary organizations that are a part of the integration of the Indian economy into the global economy have created some of the essential conditions for sprouting of such activities in more neglected areas of the country where none but the missionaries had gone before. I also think it is a sign that sufficient peace exists for people to feel secure enough to work in such long term projects and that bodes well for the future. Regards, Santanu. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Federalism and India
Dilip-da: The Indian government loves to see pluralism and federalism everywhere else specially in its neighbors except in itself. For Bharat, its just unitary-ness, the more the better. This is the true meaning of the much beloved slogan unity amidst diversity (e pluribus unum) J. Santanu. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dilip/Dil Deka Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 12:43 PM To: ASSAMNET Subject: [Assam] Federalism and India Where is India's conscience when it recommends federalism to Srilanka to end ethnic strife when the same is not practised in their own country? Or could it be the harbinger of some constitutional change in India that we are not aware of? Also note towards the end of the news how Tamilnadu's chief minister couldn't make time to see Srilanka's president. Ethnicity crosses international borders! Dilip From the Sentinel Rajapakse amid Indian Federalism Sri Lankan President Mahinda Rajapakse heard in India that the best way to end the bloody ethnic conflict in his country was to embrace federalism. In various talks with Rajapakse and his ministers during the State visit, the Indian side sought to underline the need for maximum devolution for Tamil areas. New Delhi, which believes that Tamil aspirations in Sri Lanka can be addressed without confusing them with the long-term aims of the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE), wants Rajapakse to adopt a more pluralistic stand than he has done so far. But India is very clear that there can be no compromise on Sri Lankas unity and territorial integrity. A senior aide to Rajapakse admitted that Sri Lanka would have been pleased with unreserved Indian backing for Colombo. The Indian belief is that any hardline and visibly Sinhalese approach in contrast to a pluralistic stand can only boomerang and force even those Tamils not supporting the LTTE to do a rethink. Already there is concern here over Ceylon Workers Congress (CWC) leader Arumugam Thondamans dramatic move to align with the Tigers, putting the Indian Tamils employed in tea plantations in the same league as the indigenous Tamils of the islands north and east. Bilaterally, India and Sri Lanka see eye to eye on most issues. Both sides describe the state of bilateral ties as excellent. India is not averse to helping Sri Lanka military although it is not going to sign a defence pact. Rajapakse cancelled a trip to Tamil Nadu after Chief Minister J. Jayalalitha could not provide an appointment, but will pray at Keralas Guruvayoor temple on his way home. (IANS) ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
That,
Malabika, may be an instance of C-da trying to "make many people believe that the colour of the
blackboard is white" :-)
Santanu.
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Malabika
BrahmaSent: Monday, November 14, 2005 2:25 PMTo: Chan
MahantaCc: assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam]
Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
unflattering physical attributes--you name it.
That's a news ! I always thought the general consensus was quite
the opposite :)
Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Hi
Mayur:Secondly, I did not say anything about leaving
assamnet.I am glad to hear that :-). At a
personal level, I have high regard for Mahanta-dawhich is clearly
exemplified in some of my earliermails on assamnet. I appreciate his
formidableanalytical skills to make many people believe that the
colour of the blackboard is white.*** Thanks much
for the kind words. But obviously you have gone way over with my
abilities like making black appear white. In the past people have called
me assorted names, assigned ulterior motives, tried to hurt me by citing
my advancing age and unflattering physical attributes--you name it. But
attributing supernatural abilities is a first. There has to be a far
more credible and rational explanation for it, don't you think? Allow me
to give you a hint : How about making just plain old common sense ? Is
it possible :-)?cmAt 9:53 AM -0800
11/14/05, mayur bora wrote:Dear Santanu-daThank you
for your kind words about my introduction. Iwas not exactly offended
by that comparison byDilip-da. I was no doubt amused and found the
wholething totally uncalled for. But as indicated now
byMahanta-da about some past episodes of impersonationon
assamnet, I feel it might have been an outcome
ofthat.Secondly, I did not say anything about
leavingassamnet. I want to leave the debate on
sovereigntypurely on a temporary basis till the blueprint
isoffered by someone for a threadbare discussion. Withall
the humility at my command, I wish to state that Iwrite only when
some issue touches my heart andinspires me to pour out my feelings.
I will keep ondoing that.At a personal level, I have
high regard for Mahanta-dawhich is clearly exemplified in some of my
earliermails on assamnet. I appreciate his
formidableanalytical skills to make many people believe that
thecolour of the blackboard is white. It is always apleasure
to have a debate in general on assamnet andwith Mahanta-da in
particular. I don't intend todeprive me of that pleasure so
easily.Take care.Mayur---
"Roy, Santanu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Dear
Mayur: Please don't be offended by Dilip-da
comparing you to a comet or a shadow. He means
well. Fact is that you write very well and many on
this net, who are not active right now, find your
arguments extremely relevant and laud your ability to articulate
them with intellectual honesty. Perhaps, they want to see you
write more often (which is understandably time consuming). In
any case, please keep writing - as often as you can
- and not necessarily about sovereignty.
Take care - Santanu-da. To
other netters: Mayur is very real, a former student of economics
from my own college in Delhi (much younger than me, of course)
now managing a major public sector bank in Chandigarh. Its
a pleasure to have him on the net.
-Original Message- From: mayur bora
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 11/14/2005 10:28
PM To: Dilip/Dil Deka; Roy, Santanu; Chan Mahanta;
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org
Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland
India My knowledge about science in
general and astronomy in particular is extremely
poor. Even then I could not resist the temptation of asking the
gentleman about the logic of comparing me to a comet as I
joined assamnet only during August 2005. Does any
comet keep on coming and vanishing so frequently ?
Secondly I don't have a misplaced sense of importance
about myself to think that I am trying to light the
bright sky of assamnet. What I have been trying for
the last few months is to share my concern on many
issues pertaining to Assam and to look for at least
a couple of solutions in a collective and consensual
way. Mr Deka might have missed many of our (Mahanta
-da's and mine) earlier mails on similar kind of
issues. But what have we achieved so far ? Now I have
decided not to give counter arguments due to the
following reasons. 1) We are becoming
more and more theoretical 2) Paucity of time at my side to
indulge in something with no workable solution at
sight 3) Gradual
Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India
Dilip-da: Why do you think Mayur Bora is a shadow? Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Dilip/Dil Deka Sent: Mon 11/14/2005 4:05 AM To: Chan Mahanta Cc: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with Mainland India Nulu, Mayur Bora, I think, is a shadow just like Bidyut Kakati. Another impersonation. Do you have any inkling who it could be? Dilip Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mayur: I was looking forward to getting some specific answers to all the questions I asked you about your charges of my various 'specious' arguments, about the excessive nature of my analyses, about how Indian governance is helping reduce the rifts between the many indigenous people-your primary concern about Assam, how you justify that as a reason AGAINST Assam's sovereignty aspirations, so on and so forth. Since you failed to answer any of them other than repeat your opinions, will it be fair for us to conclude that those were merely your fancy words and that there was no substance to them, that you don't know why you make those charges and comments and deliver those opinions ? And if you do not agree, will you explain why? Yes, I will be pleased to explain the disarray in Assam's management and how they are rooted in the dysfunctional Indian governance. However, that is not to be construed as the people in charge of Assam governance have no responsibility at all, like some of our friends here assume, as soon as we discuss the Indian governmental roots of the problems, and get all very excited. They too are accountable. The question however is HOW do you hold them accountable? How do you change things? I presume you too do not like what you see. But what is YOUR plan, and how do you see MORE of the same being better than changes and reforms under a sovereign Assam govt.? Many of our Markhowa ( Markin Kharkhowa) peers, with their terribly incomplete understanding of democracy, answer that elections provide the accountability, that hold the governments accountable. Do they? Governments come and governments go? Does anything change? And if nothing changes, why so? Before I go any further I want some answers from you. I am not about to submit myself here into your inquisition. If you ask something, because you don't know, and if I know the answer, it will be my pleasure a share that. But yours is a CHALLENGE, an inquisition. Under the circumstances, I intend to hold YOU to explain your conclusions, charges, and questions as well. Fair deal? Hats off to your capability in understanding your brother's posts in the rightperspective. I don't understand his cryptic repliesmany a time. *** Thanks. But it seems like something salutary only to those who are not anywhere near having any understanding of the issues involved. I agree my brother is often cryptic. Even I feel that way. People have different styles of communicating. My brother assumes, obviously incorrectly, that we know of the many things he does. Unfortunately we don't. And thus it is difficult for us to connect the dots. But that is NOT his fault :-). Having said that, I would agree that ultimately it is a matter of both COMMUNICATING and EDUCATING. But those who are trying to learn, sincerely, cannot do so by either posing challenges only and/or with a confrontational attitude. Challenges are meaningless, unless the challenger also could explain what they defend. cm At 10:57 PM -0800 11/12/05, mayur bora wrote: Dear Mahanta da Sorry for being late in my reply. I think it is better to accept the fact that we disagree on almost all the points about Assam's aspirations for independence. I went through your detailed response carefully before coming to the conclusion that your logic failed to convince me about its utility and applicability in the forseeable future. We are better off within India than outside it. I am in fact eager to see how you would like to attribute the absolutelty unprofessional conduct of assam policemen to GoI (as per The Sentinel news). This is more or less reflected in all the state govt departments. How do you envisage a very rosy picture in sovereign assam with the same kind of people 'with complete overhaul of the system' remains an enigma to me? Of course it may be due to my 'low inferentialcapabilities'. Hats off to your capability in understanding your brother's posts in the rightperspective. I don't understand his cryptic repliesmany a time. A comprehensive blueprint encompassing economic, social, political and administrative issues in sovereign Assam is the first and foremost need for a meaningful and wider debate on the pros and cons of it before trying to mislead people with theoritical rebuttal. I would consider myself fortunate if you or anyone of that school of thought can share their wisdom about any workable and practical plan on any one aspect (say administrative)in
Re: [Assam] Are You All OK?
Ram-da: If you knowpeople that moved or are still moving north towards Dallas and don'thave a placeto stay, wehave space at home. I am hoping we are not going to get flooded. Stay dry and good luck - Santanu. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Ram SarangapaniSent: Friday, September 23, 2005 8:56 AMTo: Chan MahantaCc: assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] Are You All OK? Thanks C'da for asking. So far, so good. We are all making preparations - boarding up the windows, duct taping panes, storing water, emergency supplies etc. From the local news - just heard that the eye is going to hit between Beaumont, TX and Port Arthur at 140 mph. Houston downtow to see around 100 +, North side of Houston to see 65-70 mph, Sugarland around 70+ mph. The biggest worry may be flooding come Moday or Tuesday if the hurrican stalls over any length of time (even as far as Dallas). I don't think any of the kharkhowas or markhowas have skipped town. A lot of people who left yesterday are still stuck in the freeways. Some are out of gas, or are just stuck in traffic. As a reference, there were reports that Houston to Dallas (normally around 4-5 hours) has taken 12+ hours if you are lucky. And once on the freeways (any freeeway), you can't turn back, as the freeways are now all on contra-flows to ease traffic out of Houston. More later --Ram On 9/23/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Our Houston Friends:Are you all OK so far?cm___ assam mailing listassam@assamnet.orghttp://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Fwd: Re: The Fashion Police are out there again - TOI
On a lighter note, I think the mullahs are watching tennis precisely because of the way Sania dresses now (leading them away from the ways of the lord in many senses) and the reason they want her all robed up is because then, they won't have to watch tennis any more, and can devote themselves to the lord. No different from why some similar minded Hindusdo notwant Lesbian relationships depicted on Indian movie screen - otherwise, they will have to watch it and spoil their purity...:-). On a more serious note, there is little the state can do about this except to see that no one uses physical force or intimidation. The rest is up to society. Santanu. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Dilip/Dil DekaSent: Friday, September 16, 2005 9:25 AMTo: ASSAMNETSubject: [Assam] Fwd: Re: The Fashion Police are out there again - TOI Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 06:46:21 -0700 (PDT)From: Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [Assam] The Fashion Police are out there again - TOITo: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Assam Organisation assam@assamnet.org This is a good test case where outdated religious values have clashed with modern day needs. [The group, Jamaat-e-Ulema-e-Hind, has warned that its members wouldtry to prevent Mirza from playing if she did not wear "properclothes."] -- What does this group think proper clothes are for tennis? A Burqah or Salwar-Kameez? I read somewhere that Sania's family is very religious. Will it mean that Sania has to pull out of tennis if "proper clothes" cannot be found? Is there anyone in India who can control these outrageous religious groups? DilipRam Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It doesn't matter where you are, there is always some self-righteousgroup which tells us what NOT to wear. This time it is the Islamicclergy telling Sania Mirza what NOT to wear.Since when did Mullahs start watching tennis, and that too women'stennis? And why are mullahs watching women's tennis?___KOLKATA: Indian tennis sensation Sania Mirza will receive extrasecurity after an Islamic group opposed to her on-court dressthreatened to stop her from playing in next week's WTA event, policesaid on Friday.Muslim clergymen have denounced the 18-year-old player for wearingskimpy skirts and colourful sleeveless tops on court, which they sayare un-Islamic.The teenager has emerged as one of India's most visible sporting iconsfollowing a sensational year in which she has climbed to 34 in the WTAworld rankings.In a country dominated by cricket, companies are queuing up to signendorsements with her.Mirza has refused to be drawn on the controversy over her clothes andis scheduled to play in Kolkata beginning on Monday, despite the callby a powerful Islamic group to stop her.The group, Jamaat-e-Ulema-e-Hind, has warned that its members wouldtry to prevent Mirza from playing if she did not wear "properclothes.""What she wears offends Islam. She will be stopped from playing if shedoesn't adhere to it," Siddiqullah Chowdhry, the group's chief, toldReuters.Police are tightening security following the call. "We are keeping everything in mind and not taking any chances. We aremaking special and strong security arrangements," Gautam Chakraborty,additional police commissioner of Kolkata, told Reuters.Scores of police officers are being deployed at the indoor venue forthe tournament. Spectators will be frisked and will have to passthrough metal detectors to enter the stadium.___assam mailing listassam@assamnet.orghttp://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 12 greatest Assamese songs
Excellent suggestions. May I add some of my dearest ones: Xonor kharu nelaage mok biyaar baabe aai... (Dipali Barthakur) Etukura aaloxuwa megh bhaaxi jai (Bhupen Hazarika) Tomra gaile ki ashiben, mor mahut bandhu re... (Pratima Barua) Santanu. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Santanoo MedhiSent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:08 AMTo: manoj talukdar; Pranta DasCc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; utpal borpujari; assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] 12 greatest Assamese songs i add Chenai moi jao dei bihute aahim goi tetiya gai jam geet Shilongore godhuli santanoo - Original Message - From: manoj talukdar To: Pranta Das Cc: assam@assamnet.org ; utpal borpujari ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] 12 greatest Assamese songs 1. EEMAAN DHUNIA MUKUTAAR MAALAA KOT PAALAA TUMI DAAN ( BY ?)2. LUITORE PAANI JAABI O BOI ( JYTI SANGEET)3. O OSOMIYA DEKA DOL ( bISHNU RABHA GEET)4. NAAHOR PHULE NUHUAI ( do)5. ASOMI AAI RUPAHI GUNARO NAAI HEH ( BHUPEN HAZARIKA)6. KOLORE PAATOTE KAAURI PORE ( KHAGEN MAHANTA)7. O CHENAAI MOI JAO DEI ( DIPALI BORTHAKUR)8. SANDHYA JETIA TULOSIR TOL EGOSI CHAKIE POHAR KORE ( JAYANTA HAZARIKA)9. MONOR BIJULI NOHOLE KIONO ( PULAK BANERJEE)10. PHUL PHULAR..( JUBIN GARG)11. BORDOICHILA NE ( BIHU GEET BY KHAGEN MAHANTA )12. GURU MOR SANKARDEU HE ( TOKARI GEET BY SOMNAATH BORA OJA)On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 Pranta Das wrote :Here are few of my other favorites (that are not on your list - perhaps wecan't limit this to 12 but this could be the genesis of a series: GreatestAssamese Songs Volume-I, Volume-II, etc.):Mrityu Xaboti (Jayanta Hazarika)Xuraat magan (-do-)Moi ji batere (-do-)Xuoroni Xuoriye (-do-)Jodi Moi Prosno Koru (-do-)Aagoli Botahe Kopale Kolore Pat (-do-)Ami Oxomiya Nohou Dukhiya (Bhupen Hazarika)Bistirno Paarore' (Burha Luit) (-do-)Mohaa Baahu Brahmaputra(-do-)Iman Morom Iman Xopun Khagen MahantaCheers,Pranta ___assam mailing listassam@assamnet.orghttp://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] BWeek- 500% growth in India - if corruption gone; private limite...
There are distinct economic benefitsof corruption in an economy where the state exercisesrigid control on economic activities. Corruption allows free enterprise tobypass senseless state controls and carry out productive activities that contribute to employment and growth. Most of the east Asian miracle economies havesustained high levels of corruption. Even the Japanese bureaucracyishighly corrupt. If bureaucrats in these states turned honest and actually implementing the myriads of control and regulation on industry and trade that the rules and laws in the books actually require them to, there would be a marked decline in individual incentiveto set up and expand enterprises in industry and trade. This is not to suggest that corruption is desirable or to deny other negative effects of corruption. The reasonwhycorruption confers benefits is becauseof rigid state control and regulation on the books. If the state formally disengages from the economy, the benefits of corruption disappear and in fact, so does the scope for corruption. A bureaucrat who has no discretion is, by definition, honest. As for the presumednegative effect of corruption on distribution of wealth and income, that is likely to be true though there are instances where the rich and powerful have had resources diverted for their use by influencing politicians at the upper level and the poor have actually been able to siphon some of that by bribing petty officials at the local level. If the petty officials where honest, the rural poor might have been worse off in such cases. Santanu. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 3:14 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] BWeek- 500% growth in India - if corruption gone;private limite... As I said I am no economist and was mouthing what other economist had said about corruption and its overall affect on the national economy. Amartya Sen is a brilliant thinker and his finer point has possibly been overlooked by other economists. What I understand is that the corrupt person grabs the money from the underdog directly or indirectly but as the person spends the money, it circulates and is accounted for. The overall economy of the country is not affected. I plead those who know about these things to rescue me; perhaps they could even throw their gauntlets to the noble-laureate! Bhuban ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
