Re: [Assam] From Tehelka: Failing Our Women.
Good job Amlan. Keep it up. cm At 2:45 PM -0500 1/20/08, Amlan Saha wrote: TEHELKA just published as opinion a longer version of my email to the list on the topic of women in India. http://www.tehelka.com/story_main37.asp?filename=Ws260108Failing.asp Thanks to everyone from assam list who wrote in to encourage/criticize/vehemently disagree after my initial post. Amlan. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] From Tehelka: Failing Our Women.
TEHELKA just published as opinion a longer version of my email to the list on the topic of women in India. http://www.tehelka.com/story_main37.asp?filename=Ws260108Failing.asp Thanks to everyone from assam list who wrote in to encourage/criticize/vehemently disagree after my initial post. Amlan. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka: Failing Our Women.
I agree, good article, Amlan. Hope you keep writing more on such topics. Its a shame when we come across stark examples of women being molested and ill-treated all across India. It becomes all the more shameful when such molestations occur in public and the public is more or less mute. But this is not new. I remember the incident at Rabindra Sarobar in Kolkata, many years ago. Many women were raped when the lights went out. And of course, Delhi, Mumbai, Bihar, Orissa have always taken the cake. And when such things happen, the real character of the country (or the state or city) come into play. You will find people making all kinds of excuses. One thing worse than such incidents is the rush of people coming to the rescue and excusing the culprits. The attack on some NE women seems to have taken an ethinic twist - that they looked different was enough for good-for-nothing Delhi louts to take advantage. In other incidents, it seems that caste seems to have played a role. A similar situation exists with the plight of young children who are working in menial jobs all over the county. What could be more shameful for a country to place a certain portion of it GDP on frail shoulders of the weakest sections of its population. --Ram On 1/20/08, Amlan Saha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TEHELKA just published as opinion a longer version of my email to the list on the topic of women in India. http://www.tehelka.com/story_main37.asp?filename=Ws260108Failing.asp Thanks to everyone from assam list who wrote in to encourage/criticize/vehemently disagree after my initial post. Amlan. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka: Failing Our Women.
Amlan-da, Interesting artcile on a much reported issue but I found this interesting *** But there is hope. I take heart at the fact that divorces are shooting through the roof, at least in urban India. The increase in the number of divorces, largely fueled by the newfound financial freedom of women, is a great thing to happen in the Indian society. In the past because women outside of marriage had no financial freedom they had had to put up with abusive and oppressive husbands, in-laws, and members of their own families. With careers of their own that the new economy, slowly but surely, is affording them, they can at last walk out on their husbands far more easily than Indian women ever have been able to. Perhaps you would like to comment on the high divorce rate among Muslim women and their empowerment - not only in India - if high divorce rate is an indicator of empowerment - as you put it. Umesh Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree, good article, Amlan. Hope you keep writing more on such topics. Its a shame when we come across stark examples of women being molested and ill-treated all across India. It becomes all the more shameful when such molestations occur in public and the public is more or less mute. But this is not new. I remember the incident at Rabindra Sarobar in Kolkata, many years ago. Many women were raped when the lights went out. And of course, Delhi, Mumbai, Bihar, Orissa have always taken the cake. And when such things happen, the real character of the country (or the state or city) come into play. You will find people making all kinds of excuses. One thing worse than such incidents is the rush of people coming to the rescue and excusing the culprits. The attack on some NE women seems to have taken an ethinic twist - that they looked different was enough for good-for-nothing Delhi louts to take advantage. In other incidents, it seems that caste seems to have played a role. A similar situation exists with the plight of young children who are working in menial jobs all over the county. What could be more shameful for a country to place a certain portion of it GDP on frail shoulders of the weakest sections of its population. --Ram On 1/20/08, Amlan Saha wrote: TEHELKA just published as opinion a longer version of my email to the list on the topic of women in India. http://www.tehelka.com/story_main37.asp?filename=Ws260108Failing.asp Thanks to everyone from assam list who wrote in to encourage/criticize/vehemently disagree after my initial post. Amlan. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org Umesh Sharma Washington D.C. 1-202-215-4328 [Cell] Ed.M. - International Education Policy Harvard Graduate School of Education, Harvard University, Class of 2005 http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info) http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info) www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used ) http://harvardscience.harvard.edu/ http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/ - Sent from Yahoo! #45; a smarter inbox. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka: Failing Our Women.
Amlan Saha --OK you have stated facts? But What are the Answers to this PROBLEM: TEACH all about SEX at school 14+ .And that the purpose of Sex as it stands now --to propagate Global Warming the wrong way. TEACH all about Society FamilyEconomy (or lack of it in copycat Babus' hands) Analyze historically why Indians cannot take a single woman/divorcee as an equal person having the same problems, same uncertainties as you and me/Ambanis/Tata/Birla/Sonia. TEACH how you do not become a HERO -the Delhistyle -by Raping/stalking/eaveteasing. TEACH how to behave like rational animals and choose Governments to force these. So Amlan Saha please write a conclusion! Will Tehelka give you space? Or are the only for EXPOSES? MM Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:45:35 -0600 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] From Tehelka: Failing Our Women. I agree, good article, Amlan. Hope you keep writing more on such topics. Its a shame when we come across stark examples of women being molested and ill-treated all across India. It becomes all the more shameful when such molestations occur in public and the public is more or less mute. But this is not new. I remember the incident at Rabindra Sarobar in Kolkata, many years ago. Many women were raped when the lights went out. And of course, Delhi, Mumbai, Bihar, Orissa have always taken the cake. And when such things happen, the real character of the country (or the state or city) come into play. You will find people making all kinds of excuses. One thing worse than such incidents is the rush of people coming to the rescue and excusing the culprits. The attack on some NE women seems to have taken an ethinic twist - that they looked different was enough for good-for-nothing Delhi louts to take advantage. In other incidents, it seems that caste seems to have played a role. A similar situation exists with the plight of young children who are working in menial jobs all over the county. What could be more shameful for a country to place a certain portion of it GDP on frail shoulders of the weakest sections of its population. --RamOn 1/20/08, Amlan Saha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TEHELKA just published as opinion a longer version of my email to the list on the topic of women in India. http://www.tehelka.com/story_main37.asp?filename=Ws260108Failing.asp Thanks to everyone from assam list who wrote in to encourage/criticize/vehemently disagree after my initial post. Amlan. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org _ Post free property ads on Yello Classifieds now! www.yello.in http://ss1.richmedia.in/recurl.asp?pid=219 ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] From Tehelka-- Life Inside A Black Hole
Is it just a caste issue? If someone else were made to go int there is it okay? Umesh Chan Mahanta Tue, 04 Dec 2007 19:21:49 -0800 Life Inside A Black Hole Beneath the glitter of India are dark alleys in which are trapped poisonous gases and millions of Dalits who do our dirty job in return for disease and untouchability. S. ANAND reports Yeh suhana mausam, yeh khula aasmaan, kho gaye hum yahaan, haye, kho gaye hum yahaan... (This lovely weather, these wide open skies, we are lost in the bliss, oh, we are lost here..) Click here to view slide show IN THE Radio Mirchi television commercial, a paan-chewing man in a safari suit is shown wondering what keeps the man down in the manhole so happy that he should sing. Zooming in on the trousers and footwear left beside the manhole cover, the tagline says: Mirchi Sunnewaale#138; Always Khush. Conceived by Prasoon Joshi of Mc- Cann Erickson, the ad has been on air for close to two years now without a murmur of protest from viewers or civil rights groups. Perhaps the idea that even the faceless manhole cleaner is happy, listening to FM radio, is comforting. A Radio Mirchi official believed the ad would elicit the maximum amount of laughter. A blogger praised the ad for its simple concept, beautiful execution, high recall value. After all, we develop a capacity to be blind when we see an open manhole and men at work. What is the weather really like inside a manhole? What happens to the shit, piss and other waste flushed down by 18.02 percent of the billion- plus population - those with the luxury of a water closet facility in India according to Census 2001? What is the fate of the lakhs of Dalits forced to do sanitation work? At least 22,327 Dalits of a sub-community die doing sanitation work every year. (see box). Safai Kamgar Vikas Sangh, a body representing sanitation workers of the Brihanmumbai Municipal Corporation (BMC), sought data under the Right to Information Act in 2006, and found that 288 workers had died in 2004-05, 316 in 2003-04, and 320 in 2002-03, in just 14 of the 24 wards of the BMC. About 25 deaths every month. These figures do not include civic hospital workers, gutter cleaners or sanitation workers on contract. Compare this with the 5,100 soldiers - army, police, paramilitaries - who have died between 1990 and 2007 combating militancy in Jammu Kashmir. It is only in the fantastic world of Hindi cinema - Don, Dhoom-2 - that a character nonchalantly enters a drain and emerges unscathed. In Delhi, on May 6, 2007, three men - Ramesh (30), Santosh (32) and Ashish (35) - died of asphyxiation in a manhole in Dabri. Subcontracted by the Delhi Jal Board (DJB), Ansal Constructions had employed three migrant workers from Uttar Pradesh to enter the clogged manhole. With no prior experience, they inhaled noxious gases, and died instantly. The Dabri deaths merited a routine mention in some dailies. In July 2006, when six-year-old Prince Kumar Kashyap fell in a 50- feet deep borewell pit in Haldheri village, Haryana, and was rescued by the army, it became national news. The rescue was televised, with Chief Minister Bhoopinder Singh Hooda, Kurukshetra MP Naveen Jindal and others camping at the site. Prince received gifts worth Rs 7 lakh. The Times of India headlined him as the Rural Page 3 kid. However, a Dalit dying in a sewer is a non-event. The men and women - invariably Dalits - who ceaselessly manage to keep our cities, towns and villages clean, die every day around us. We never notice their lives or deaths. These are the soldiers who, bereft of the honour of uniform and the posthumous glamour of martyrdom, sacrifice their lives making sure the rivers of filth flow unhindered. Forced to touch, immerse themselves in - and perforce taste - the fermented faeces of millions, they are condemned to untouchability. The genocide passes unnoticed since there are a million invisible Dalits who will quietly take the place of the dead. THE BELLY OF THE BEAST What does this beast that gobbles human lives look like? Who feeds it? In Delhi, it is a humongous many-mouthed subterranean creature - a network of 5,600 km of sewers with about 1.5 lakh manholes, managed by the DJB - which consumes 2,781 million litres of thesewage Delhi generates daily. The journey begins from kitchens, bathrooms and toilets through four-inch house drains that empty into the main sewer. The 9-inch trunk sewers carry the slush to bigger lines of 2m to 3m diameter. This network of pipes is laid below ground level with sufficient gradient to ensure a selfcleansing velocity of about 1 metre per second.Reared on a mixed diet of domestic, commercial and industrial wastewater, with stormwater drains sometimes hitching a ride and burdening its mangled intestines, the beast develops serious indigestion every day. It is indiscriminately fed a wide range of objects that causes clogs -
[Assam] From Tehelka-- Life Inside A Black Hole
Life Inside A Black Hole Beneath the glitter of India are dark alleys in which are trapped poisonous gases and millions of Dalits who do our dirty job in return for disease and untouchability. S. ANAND reports Yeh suhana mausam, yeh khula aasmaan, kho gaye hum yahaan, haye, kho gaye hum yahaan... (This lovely weather, these wide open skies, we are lost in the bliss, oh, we are lost here..) Click here to view slide show IN THE Radio Mirchi television commercial, a paan-chewing man in a safari suit is shown wondering what keeps the man down in the manhole so happy that he should sing. Zooming in on the trousers and footwear left beside the manhole cover, the tagline says: Mirchi Sunnewaale Always Khush. Conceived by Prasoon Joshi of Mc- Cann Erickson, the ad has been on air for close to two years now without a murmur of protest from viewers or civil rights groups. Perhaps the idea that even the faceless manhole cleaner is happy, listening to FM radio, is comforting. A Radio Mirchi official believed the ad would elicit the maximum amount of laughter. A blogger praised the ad for its simple concept, beautiful execution, high recall value. After all, we develop a capacity to be blind when we see an open manhole and men at work. What is the weather really like inside a manhole? What happens to the shit, piss and other waste flushed down by 18.02 percent of the billion- plus population - those with the luxury of a water closet facility in India according to Census 2001? What is the fate of the lakhs of Dalits forced to do sanitation work? At least 22,327 Dalits of a sub-community die doing sanitation work every year. (see box). Safai Kamgar Vikas Sangh, a body representing sanitation workers of the Brihanmumbai Municipal Corporation (BMC), sought data under the Right to Information Act in 2006, and found that 288 workers had died in 2004-05, 316 in 2003-04, and 320 in 2002-03, in just 14 of the 24 wards of the BMC. About 25 deaths every month. These figures do not include civic hospital workers, gutter cleaners or sanitation workers on contract. Compare this with the 5,100 soldiers - army, police, paramilitaries - who have died between 1990 and 2007 combating militancy in Jammu Kashmir. It is only in the fantastic world of Hindi cinema - Don, Dhoom-2 - that a character nonchalantly enters a drain and emerges unscathed. In Delhi, on May 6, 2007, three men - Ramesh (30), Santosh (32) and Ashish (35) - died of asphyxiation in a manhole in Dabri. Subcontracted by the Delhi Jal Board (DJB), Ansal Constructions had employed three migrant workers from Uttar Pradesh to enter the clogged manhole. With no prior experience, they inhaled noxious gases, and died instantly. The Dabri deaths merited a routine mention in some dailies. In July 2006, when six-year-old Prince Kumar Kashyap fell in a 50- feet deep borewell pit in Haldheri village, Haryana, and was rescued by the army, it became national news. The rescue was televised, with Chief Minister Bhoopinder Singh Hooda, Kurukshetra MP Naveen Jindal and others camping at the site. Prince received gifts worth Rs 7 lakh. The Times of India headlined him as the Rural Page 3 kid. However, a Dalit dying in a sewer is a non-event. The men and women - invariably Dalits - who ceaselessly manage to keep our cities, towns and villages clean, die every day around us. We never notice their lives or deaths. These are the soldiers who, bereft of the honour of uniform and the posthumous glamour of martyrdom, sacrifice their lives making sure the rivers of filth flow unhindered. Forced to touch, immerse themselves in - and perforce taste - the fermented faeces of millions, they are condemned to untouchability. The genocide passes unnoticed since there are a million invisible Dalits who will quietly take the place of the dead. THE BELLY OF THE BEAST What does this beast that gobbles human lives look like? Who feeds it? In Delhi, it is a humongous many-mouthed subterranean creature - a network of 5,600 km of sewers with about 1.5 lakh manholes, managed by the DJB - which consumes 2,781 million litres of thesewage Delhi generates daily. The journey begins from kitchens, bathrooms and toilets through four-inch house drains that empty into the main sewer. The 9-inch trunk sewers carry the slush to bigger lines of 2m to 3m diameter. This network of pipes is laid below ground level with sufficient gradient to ensure a selfcleansing velocity of about 1 metre per second.Reared on a mixed diet of domestic, commercial and industrial wastewater, with stormwater drains sometimes hitching a ride and burdening its mangled intestines, the beast develops serious indigestion every day. It is indiscriminately fed a wide range of objects that causes clogs - condoms, sanitary pads, nondegradable thermocol, a variety of plastics, industrial sludge, kitchen waste, toilet cleaning acids, medical waste
[Assam] From Tehelka
Look at the very last paragraph, with my highlighting. While I like to hope for it to happen, having observed desi-citizenry, or more precisely its intelligentsia, one that holds the powers for change, it would care less. So good luck and say a prayer to your favorite god, for that has a far better chance ofd delivering than desi-intelligentsia or its 'rising middle-class' involvement or care. cm Welfare's Willing Executioners Cholera's not all that's killing people in India's hunger capital. Staggering corruption in the Orissa NREGS has done the poor enough harm too, says PARSHURAM RAI OF THE 1.4 billion people who face chronic hunger world over, one in three is an Indian. Every third Indian goes to bed without food; more than 10,000 of our compatriots die of hunger each day. So massive a scale of abject poverty is unconscionable in a fast-growing economy with a rising number of dollar millionaires. When confronted with such disparity, the traditional explanation of poverty in terms of low incomes and a poor economy becomes increasingly irrelevant. It is difficult to disagree with Lord Meghnad Desai when he says that economic poverty in India is inextricably linked to the poverty of politics - bad governance and corruption. It is not the poor state of the economy or the lack of funds that is killing about 40 lakh Indians every year, it is the cancer of corruption and the colonial character of the Indian bureaucracy. Dregs of the NREGS Rs 733 crore was spent on the NREGS in Orissa in 2006-07 Of this, the CEFS report claims that NREGS executing officials siphoned off over Rs 500 crore The money would have bought 10 lakh families two meals a day for six months Rural Development Minister Raghuvansh Prasad Singh recently denied the report any veracity However, on September 17, a day after his previous statement, Singh said the CAG would probe the 'alleged irregularities' India currently has four major schemes in operation that aim at fighting hunger and food insecurity: the Public Distribution System (PDS), the Integrated Child Development Scheme (ICDS), the Mid-day Meal Scheme (MDM) and, most importantly, the National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme (NREGS). Very few Indians would ever have to go without food if we could just ensure that these schemes were corruption-free, in particular the PDS and the NREGS. But what is their actual performance on the ground? According to a recent report on the Ministry of Consumer Affairs, Food and Public Distribution, Last year alone, Rs 11,336.98 crore worth of food grain that the government is supposed to distribute to the needy at subsidised prices found its way into the market illegally. Every year, India's poor are cheated out of 53.3 percent of wheat and 39 percent of rice meant for them There is largescale diversion of PDS grain across India Exceptions apart, the poor in India simply can't trust the government to deliver them food supplies. (The Times of India, September 17, 2007) One of the most horrifying examples of the governing class' brutal theft of money meant for the poor is to be found in Orissa, which is among the poorest states in the country. A survey I headed conducted by the Delhibased Centre for Environment and Food Security (CEFS) across 100 Orissa villages has found that of the Rs 733 crore spent under the NREGS during 2006-07, over Rs 500 crore, or around 70 percent, has been siphoned off and misappropriated by officials of the executing agencies. Moreover, as against the claims of the Orissa government that no needy household in the state's 19 NREGS districts had been denied wage employment and that each such household had been given an average of 57 days of wage employment under the NREGS, the CEFS study has revealed that a large number of impoverished households had been denied not only jobs but even job cards, and that not more than five days' wage employment on average had been given to any of these families in the 19 districts. To put Rs 500 crore of siphoned NREGS funds in perspective, this amount of money would have given about 90 days of wage employment to about 10 lakh severely impoverished families. Each of these families would have got Rs 5,000 as wages. This amount would have given each family two subsistence meals a day for four to six months; it would have supplied each family one meal a day for an entire year. The scale of this callousness takes it beyond the level of just another financial scam - the Orissa bureaucracy has robbed 10 lakh chronically hungry families of a meal a day for a whole year. DURING THE last two months, hundreds of adivasis in Rayagada, Koraput and Kalahandi districts have died due to consumption of contaminated water and rotten food and hunger and severe food insecurity. The CEFS study, however, leads one to believe that the cholera epidemic that is killing hundreds of adivasis in
[Assam] From Tehelka: Develop, Displace, Forget The Poor
Develop, Displace, Forget The Poor WALTER FERNANDES http://www.tehelka.com/story_main34.asp?filename=cr290907DoBigha.asp What else did you expect me to do? was her reply when I asked her why she had pulled her son out of school to turn him into a child labourer. She is one of four lakh parents to have done so in Assam alone, all of them displaced in the name of national development and left to fend for themselves. Assam claims to have displaced 4,51,252 people from 3,91,773 acres between 1947 and 2000. The real figures stand at 19,09,368 people from 14,01,186 acres. West Bengal has done the same to 7 million people from 4.7 million acres in the same period. Similar numbers are found in other states . Leave alone rehabilitation, most of them are not even seen as displaced. Assam has rehabilitated those displaced by just about 10 projects out of 3,000 and West Bengal has partially resettled around 10 percent of them. Fifty-six percent of the displaced in Assam and 49 percent in Bengal have turned their children into child labourers. When that is not possible, women sell their bodies to keep the hearth fires burning. Crime is another option. Studies indicate that India has deprived some 60 million people of their livelihood in the name of national development. Fewer than 20 percent have been rehabilitated. Since colonial land laws continue and recognise only individual ownership, Assam has not counted the 1 million acres of common land from which it displaced 14.5 lakh tribals, Dalits and others. It has been their sustenance for centuries but the colonial laws declare it State property. The official claim that compensation is rehabilitation is untenable. But the ruling class does not have to worry about them because they are powerless. Tribals are more than 20 million of these 60 million, Dalits are 12 millions and other rural poor are some 10 million. They can be displaced and forgotten. That is the future trend too. Nandigram and Singur hog headlines but not Navi Mumbai, other SEZs and the 2.26 lakh acres that West Bengal has committed to industries with private profit as the only criterion. One hundred and sixty eight massive dams are being planned in the Northeast. Former PM Vajpayee declared in May 2002 the dams will turn the Northeast into the powerhouse of India. Many more lakhs of people who will be impoverished by them were ignored. Greater poverty is intrinsic to this Shining India approach. Crime for survival, prostitution and child labour are its result. Is this the only alternative or is development with a human face possible? Fernandes is director, North Eastern Social Research Centre ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka---Manu's Memorial
You are right! A government office should not be putting up a idol pertaining to a particular religion. As regards to Manu. I believe he is not one person, but many. There has been many manu's who contributed to the manu shastra. A manu is a person who is supposed to be casteless. He is supposed to be a offspring of a manov and danov. In today's parlance he is the product of a intercaste or inter-state/community marriage. He was vested with the job of writing the hindu laws, because he was thought to be impartial, not belonging to any particular caste or creed. But like any humane person, he too was falible. If a Manu was to rewrite the manu smriti, he would definitely have written it differently. -:) Mohan R. Palleti Is there not a separation of State and Religion in the seculiar Indian Constitution which prohibits such display of Hindu religeous figures in public place? How can the symbol of Manu harmless? I think he is the cause of the overall deteriation of the Indian civilization. RB - Original Message - From: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 2:01 PM Subject: [Assam] From Tehelka---Manu's Memorial Is it a simple, harmless symbol of cultural heritage? Or is there a whole lot more to it? cm THE WORSHIP OF FALSE GODS http://www.tehelka.com/story_main31.asp?filename=Cr070707shadow_lines.asp When a new building was constructed in Jaipur for the state High Court, the local Bar Association put forward a proposal for the installation of a statue of Manu to beautify the premises. From proposal to completion, the entire plan was kept a close secret, never made public until the statue was in place. Manu was the creator of the varna system under which Hindu society for centuries denied all basic human rights and dignity to Dalits. For us, a statue of Manu can only symbolise the unjust social structure imposed on us from time immemorial. All the oppression we continue to suffer is because of Manu and his treatise, the Manudharma Sastra. We turn to the courts when we are in trouble. Can we ever expect justice from a court which we enter looking at Manu's idol? The Constitution has attempted to improve the condition of Dalits through law, but Manu's words have been an unwritten stricture the law cannot touch. Had Manu's statue been installed anywhere else, perhaps we would not have cared to react. But to see such homage paid to a figure who represents all that is unjust in this society, and that too standing proud in the premises of the Rajasthan High Court, is shocking. It is beyond acceptance. We turn to the courts when we are in trouble, which for us is almost perennial. What worse message could we receive? Can we ever expect justice from a court which we enter looking at Manu's idol? It only tells us that even the High Court subscribes to Manu's ideology. On the other hand, the statue of Dr BR Ambedkar, the father of our Constitution, has been shunted to an invisible corner. It says a lot about the mentality of the judiciary and the government in Rajasthan. How is such a system to contribute to the constitutional ideal of a casteless society? The statue was installed on June 28, 1989, and we have been fighting it ever since. There were huge protests all over the state soon after it was put up, and a full bench of the High Court ordered that it be removed within 48 hours. We were all happy, but soon after that the Vishwa Hindu Parishad's Acharya Dharmendra filed a writ petition in the court of Justice Mahender Bhushan, who passed a stay order on July 27, 1989 - as a result the statue is there till date. There are many cases dating back to 1989 that have seen their final hearings, but not this one. Each time this case comes to a final hearing, the bench postpones it on the grounds that it is a very sensitive issue. But we will not give up easily - we haven't so far, and we will not in the future. We will continue to file applications asking for a final hearing in this case. We want to see how they will justify their deliberate delays. We install statues of Ambedkar because that's our way of reclaiming our lost dignity. But why is the government installing a statue of Manu? The very government which is supposed to have no biases towards any religion or caste. Let there be Manu statues wherever anyone pleases, but the government should not be a party to it. Mimroth is a Jaipur-based advocate As told to Praveen Donthi ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka---Manu's Memorial
I believe he is not one person, but many. There has been many manu's who contributed to the manu shastra. I can believe that. But what I get more curious about, is how they decided what this Manu looked like to make a statue of his? Perhaps it was an abstraction? Like a body without a face ? Or a piece of stone with a nameplate at the bottom identifying it as Manu :-)? At 8:41 AM -0400 7/6/07, Mohan R. Palleti wrote: You are right! A government office should not be putting up a idol pertaining to a particular religion. As regards to Manu. I believe he is not one person, but many. There has been many manu's who contributed to the manu shastra. A manu is a person who is supposed to be casteless. He is supposed to be a offspring of a manov and danov. In today's parlance he is the product of a intercaste or inter-state/community marriage. He was vested with the job of writing the hindu laws, because he was thought to be impartial, not belonging to any particular caste or creed. But like any humane person, he too was falible. If a Manu was to rewrite the manu smriti, he would definitely have written it differently. -:) Mohan R. Palleti Is there not a separation of State and Religion in the seculiar Indian Constitution which prohibits such display of Hindu religeous figures in public place? How can the symbol of Manu harmless? I think he is the cause of the overall deteriation of the Indian civilization. RB - Original Message - From: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 2:01 PM Subject: [Assam] From Tehelka---Manu's Memorial Is it a simple, harmless symbol of cultural heritage? Or is there a whole lot more to it? cm THE WORSHIP OF FALSE GODS http://www.tehelka.com/story_main31.asp?filename=Cr070707shadow_lines.asp When a new building was constructed in Jaipur for the state High Court, the local Bar Association put forward a proposal for the installation of a statue of Manu to beautify the premises. From proposal to completion, the entire plan was kept a close secret, never made public until the statue was in place. Manu was the creator of the varna system under which Hindu society for centuries denied all basic human rights and dignity to Dalits. For us, a statue of Manu can only symbolise the unjust social structure imposed on us from time immemorial. All the oppression we continue to suffer is because of Manu and his treatise, the Manudharma Sastra. We turn to the courts when we are in trouble. Can we ever expect justice from a court which we enter looking at Manu's idol? The Constitution has attempted to improve the condition of Dalits through law, but Manu's words have been an unwritten stricture the law cannot touch. Had Manu's statue been installed anywhere else, perhaps we would not have cared to react. But to see such homage paid to a figure who represents all that is unjust in this society, and that too standing proud in the premises of the Rajasthan High Court, is shocking. It is beyond acceptance. We turn to the courts when we are in trouble, which for us is almost perennial. What worse message could we receive? Can we ever expect justice from a court which we enter looking at Manu's idol? It only tells us that even the High Court subscribes to Manu's ideology. On the other hand, the statue of Dr BR Ambedkar, the father of our Constitution, has been shunted to an invisible corner. It says a lot about the mentality of the judiciary and the government in Rajasthan. How is such a system to contribute to the constitutional ideal of a casteless society? The statue was installed on June 28, 1989, and we have been fighting it ever since. There were huge protests all over the state soon after it was put up, and a full bench of the High Court ordered that it be removed within 48 hours. We were all happy, but soon after that the Vishwa Hindu Parishad's Acharya Dharmendra filed a writ petition in the court of Justice Mahender Bhushan, who passed a stay order on July 27, 1989 - as a result the statue is there till date. There are many cases dating back to 1989 that have seen their final hearings, but not this one. Each time this case comes to a final hearing, the bench postpones it on the grounds that it is a very sensitive issue. But we will not give up easily - we haven't so far, and we will not in the future. We will continue to file applications asking for a final hearing in this case. We want to see how they will justify their deliberate delays. We install statues of Ambedkar because that's our way of reclaiming our lost dignity. But why is the government installing a statue of Manu? The very government which is supposed to have no biases towards any religion or caste. Let there be Manu statues wherever anyone pleases, but the government should not be a party to it. Mimroth
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka---Manu's Memorial
C' da: The same way I guess as they made statue's of Ram, Krishna or Siva Hindu's identify the God's with the garb and paraphernelia of the idol. Same goes with Lady Liberty Mohan I believe he is not one person, but many. There has been many manu's who contributed to the manu shastra. I can believe that. But what I get more curious about, is how they decided what this Manu looked like to make a statue of his? Perhaps it was an abstraction? Like a body without a face ? Or a piece of stone with a nameplate at the bottom identifying it as Manu :-)? At 8:41 AM -0400 7/6/07, Mohan R. Palleti wrote: You are right! A government office should not be putting up a idol pertaining to a particular religion. As regards to Manu. I believe he is not one person, but many. There has been many manu's who contributed to the manu shastra. A manu is a person who is supposed to be casteless. He is supposed to be a offspring of a manov and danov. In today's parlance he is the product of a intercaste or inter-state/community marriage. He was vested with the job of writing the hindu laws, because he was thought to be impartial, not belonging to any particular caste or creed. But like any humane person, he too was falible. If a Manu was to rewrite the manu smriti, he would definitely have written it differently. -:) Mohan R. Palleti Is there not a separation of State and Religion in the seculiar Indian Constitution which prohibits such display of Hindu religeous figures in public place? How can the symbol of Manu harmless? I think he is the cause of the overall deteriation of the Indian civilization. RB - Original Message - From: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 2:01 PM Subject: [Assam] From Tehelka---Manu's Memorial Is it a simple, harmless symbol of cultural heritage? Or is there a whole lot more to it? cm THE WORSHIP OF FALSE GODS http://www.tehelka.com/story_main31.asp?filename=Cr070707shadow_lines.asp When a new building was constructed in Jaipur for the state High Court, the local Bar Association put forward a proposal for the installation of a statue of Manu to beautify the premises. From proposal to completion, the entire plan was kept a close secret, never made public until the statue was in place. Manu was the creator of the varna system under which Hindu society for centuries denied all basic human rights and dignity to Dalits. For us, a statue of Manu can only symbolise the unjust social structure imposed on us from time immemorial. All the oppression we continue to suffer is because of Manu and his treatise, the Manudharma Sastra. We turn to the courts when we are in trouble. Can we ever expect justice from a court which we enter looking at Manu's idol? The Constitution has attempted to improve the condition of Dalits through law, but Manu's words have been an unwritten stricture the law cannot touch. Had Manu's statue been installed anywhere else, perhaps we would not have cared to react. But to see such homage paid to a figure who represents all that is unjust in this society, and that too standing proud in the premises of the Rajasthan High Court, is shocking. It is beyond acceptance. We turn to the courts when we are in trouble, which for us is almost perennial. What worse message could we receive? Can we ever expect justice from a court which we enter looking at Manu's idol? It only tells us that even the High Court subscribes to Manu's ideology. On the other hand, the statue of Dr BR Ambedkar, the father of our Constitution, has been shunted to an invisible corner. It says a lot about the mentality of the judiciary and the government in Rajasthan. How is such a system to contribute to the constitutional ideal of a casteless society? The statue was installed on June 28, 1989, and we have been fighting it ever since. There were huge protests all over the state soon after it was put up, and a full bench of the High Court ordered that it be removed within 48 hours. We were all happy, but soon after that the Vishwa Hindu Parishad's Acharya Dharmendra filed a writ petition in the court of Justice Mahender Bhushan, who passed a stay order on July 27, 1989 - as a result the statue is there till date. There are many cases dating back to 1989 that have seen their final hearings, but not this one. Each time this case comes to a final hearing, the bench postpones it on the grounds that it is a very sensitive issue. But we will not give up easily - we haven't so far, and we will not in the future. We will continue to file applications asking for a final hearing in this case. We want to see how they will justify their deliberate delays. We install statues of Ambedkar because that's our way of reclaiming our lost dignity. But why is the government installing a statue of Manu
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka---Manu's Memorial
If you want to go further - How did the followers come up with the icons for Jesus, Buddha, Mahavir Jain? As you know there is no icon for prophet Muhammed because Muslims don't allow it. I was wondering if a movie was ever made where prophet Muhammed was a character. Dilip = Mohan R. Palleti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: C' da: The same way I guess as they made statue's of Ram, Krishna or Siva Hindu's identify the God's with the garb and paraphernelia of the idol. Same goes with Lady Liberty Mohan I believe he is not one person, but many. There has been many manu's who contributed to the manu shastra. I can believe that. But what I get more curious about, is how they decided what this Manu looked like to make a statue of his? Perhaps it was an abstraction? Like a body without a face ? Or a piece of stone with a nameplate at the bottom identifying it as Manu :-)? At 8:41 AM -0400 7/6/07, Mohan R. Palleti wrote: You are right! A government office should not be putting up a idol pertaining to a particular religion. As regards to Manu. I believe he is not one person, but many. There has been many manu's who contributed to the manu shastra. A manu is a person who is supposed to be casteless. He is supposed to be a offspring of a manov and danov. In today's parlance he is the product of a intercaste or inter-state/community marriage. He was vested with the job of writing the hindu laws, because he was thought to be impartial, not belonging to any particular caste or creed. But like any humane person, he too was falible. If a Manu was to rewrite the manu smriti, he would definitely have written it differently. -:) Mohan R. Palleti Is there not a separation of State and Religion in the seculiar Indian Constitution which prohibits such display of Hindu religeous figures in public place? How can the symbol of Manu harmless? I think he is the cause of the overall deteriation of the Indian civilization. RB - Original Message - From: Chan Mahanta To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 2:01 PM Subject: [Assam] From Tehelka---Manu's Memorial Is it a simple, harmless symbol of cultural heritage? Or is there a whole lot more to it? cm THE WORSHIP OF FALSE GODS http://www.tehelka.com/story_main31.asp?filename=Cr070707shadow_lines.asp When a new building was constructed in Jaipur for the state High Court, the local Bar Association put forward a proposal for the installation of a statue of Manu to beautify the premises. From proposal to completion, the entire plan was kept a close secret, never made public until the statue was in place. Manu was the creator of the varna system under which Hindu society for centuries denied all basic human rights and dignity to Dalits. For us, a statue of Manu can only symbolise the unjust social structure imposed on us from time immemorial. All the oppression we continue to suffer is because of Manu and his treatise, the Manudharma Sastra. We turn to the courts when we are in trouble. Can we ever expect justice from a court which we enter looking at Manu's idol? The Constitution has attempted to improve the condition of Dalits through law, but Manu's words have been an unwritten stricture the law cannot touch. Had Manu's statue been installed anywhere else, perhaps we would not have cared to react. But to see such homage paid to a figure who represents all that is unjust in this society, and that too standing proud in the premises of the Rajasthan High Court, is shocking. It is beyond acceptance. We turn to the courts when we are in trouble, which for us is almost perennial. What worse message could we receive? Can we ever expect justice from a court which we enter looking at Manu's idol? It only tells us that even the High Court subscribes to Manu's ideology. On the other hand, the statue of Dr BR Ambedkar, the father of our Constitution, has been shunted to an invisible corner. It says a lot about the mentality of the judiciary and the government in Rajasthan. How is such a system to contribute to the constitutional ideal of a casteless society? The statue was installed on June 28, 1989, and we have been fighting it ever since. There were huge protests all over the state soon after it was put up, and a full bench of the High Court ordered that it be removed within 48 hours. We were all happy, but soon after that the Vishwa Hindu Parishad's Acharya Dharmendra filed a writ petition in the court of Justice Mahender Bhushan, who passed a stay order on July 27, 1989 - as a result the statue is there till date. There are many cases dating back to 1989 that have seen their final hearings, but not this one. Each time this case comes to a final hearing, the bench postpones it on the grounds that it is a very sensitive issue. But we will not give up easily - we haven't so far, and we will not in the future
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka---Manu's Memorial
I know Moses looks like Charlton Heston, the Virgin Mary like the one I saw in a grotto at a cathedral inShillong, and Jesus looks like that actor from Passion of the Christ :) Jesus!:) Ram On 7/6/07, Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you want to go further - How did the followers come up with the icons for Jesus, Buddha, Mahavir Jain? As you know there is no icon for prophet Muhammed because Muslims don't allow it. I was wondering if a movie was ever made where prophet Muhammed was a character. Dilip = *Mohan R. Palleti [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote: C' da: The same way I guess as they made statue's of Ram, Krishna or Siva Hindu's identify the God's with the garb and paraphernelia of the idol. Same goes with Lady Liberty Mohan I believe he is not one person, but many. There has been many manu's who contributed to the manu shastra. I can believe that. But what I get more curious about, is how they decided what this Manu looked like to make a statue of his? Perhaps it was an abstraction? Like a body without a face ? Or a piece of stone with a nameplate at the bottom identifying it as Manu :-)? At 8:41 AM -0400 7/6/07, Mohan R. Palleti wrote: You are right! A government office should not be putting up a idol pertaining to a particular religion. As regards to Manu. I believe he is not one person, but many. There has been many manu's who contributed to the manu shastra. A manu is a person who is supposed to be casteless. He is supposed to be a offspring of a manov and danov. In today's parlance he is the product of a intercaste or inter-state/community marriage. He was vested with the job of writing the hindu laws, because he was thought to be impartial, not belonging to any particular caste or creed. But like any humane person, he too was falible. If a Manu was to rewrite the manu smriti, he would definitely have written it differently. -:) Mohan R. Palleti Is there not a separation of State and Religion in the seculiar Indian Constitution which prohibits such display of Hindu religeous figures in public place? How can the symbol of Manu harmless? I think he is the cause of the overall deteriation of the Indian civilization. RB - Original Message - From: Chan Mahanta To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 2:01 PM Subject: [Assam] From Tehelka---Manu's Memorial Is it a simple, harmless symbol of cultural heritage? Or is there a whole lot more to it? cm THE WORSHIP OF FALSE GODS http://www.tehelka.com/story_main31.asp?filename=Cr070707shadow_lines.asp When a new building was constructed in Jaipur for the state High Court, the local Bar Association put forward a proposal for the installation of a statue of Manu to beautify the premises. From proposal to completion, the entire plan was kept a close secret, never made public until the statue was in place. Manu was the creator of the varna system under which Hindu society for centuries denied all basic human rights and dignity to Dalits. For us, a statue of Manu can only symbolise the unjust social structure imposed on us from time immemorial. All the oppression we continue to suffer is because of Manu and his treatise, the Manudharma Sastra. We turn to the courts when we are in trouble. Can we ever expect justice from a court which we enter looking at Manu's idol? The Constitution has attempted to improve the condition of Dalits through law, but Manu's words have been an unwritten stricture the law cannot touch. Had Manu's statue been installed anywhere else, perhaps we would not have cared to react. But to see such homage paid to a figure who represents all that is unjust in this society, and that too standing proud in the premises of the Rajasthan High Court, is shocking. It is beyond acceptance. We turn to the courts when we are in trouble, which for us is almost perennial. What worse message could we receive? Can we ever expect justice from a court which we enter looking at Manu's idol? It only tells us that even the High Court subscribes to Manu's ideology. On the other hand, the statue of Dr BR Ambedkar, the father of our Constitution, has been shunted to an invisible corner. It says a lot about the mentality of the judiciary and the government in Rajasthan. How is such a system to contribute to the constitutional ideal of a casteless society? The statue was installed on June 28, 1989, and we have been fighting it ever since. There were huge protests all over the state soon after it was put up, and a full bench of the High Court ordered that it be removed within 48 hours. We were all happy, but soon after that the Vishwa Hindu Parishad's Acharya Dharmendra filed a writ petition in the court of Justice Mahender Bhushan, who passed a stay order on July 27, 1989 - as a result the statue is there till date. There are many cases dating back to 1989 that have seen
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka---Manu's Memorial
Well, well, well! I guess what WAS good for the gander will have to BE good for the goose too :-). At 8:53 AM -0600 7/6/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote: I know Moses looks like Charlton Heston, the Virgin Mary like the one I saw in a grotto at a cathedral inShillong, and Jesus looks like that actor from Passion of the Christ :) Jesus!:) Ram On 7/6/07, Dilip/Dil Deka mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you want to go further - How did the followers come up with the icons for Jesus, Buddha, Mahavir Jain? As you know there is no icon for prophet Muhammed because Muslims don't allow it. I was wondering if a movie was ever made where prophet Muhammed was a character. Dilip = Mohan R. Palleti mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: C' da: The same way I guess as they made statue's of Ram, Krishna or Siva Hindu's identify the God's with the garb and paraphernelia of the idol. Same goes with Lady Liberty Mohan I believe he is not one person, but many. There has been many manu's who contributed to the manu shastra. I can believe that. But what I get more curious about, is how they decided what this Manu looked like to make a statue of his? Perhaps it was an abstraction? Like a body without a face ? Or a piece of stone with a nameplate at the bottom identifying it as Manu :-)? At 8:41 AM -0400 7/6/07, Mohan R. Palleti wrote: You are right! A government office should not be putting up a idol pertaining to a particular religion. As regards to Manu. I believe he is not one person, but many. There has been many manu's who contributed to the manu shastra. A manu is a person who is supposed to be casteless. He is supposed to be a offspring of a manov and danov. In today's parlance he is the product of a intercaste or inter-state/community marriage. He was vested with the job of writing the hindu laws, because he was thought to be impartial, not belonging to any particular caste or creed. But like any humane person, he too was falible. If a Manu was to rewrite the manu smriti, he would definitely have written it differently. -:) Mohan R. Palleti Is there not a separation of State and Religion in the seculiar Indian Constitution which prohibits such display of Hindu religeous figures in public place? How can the symbol of Manu harmless? I think he is the cause of the overall deteriation of the Indian civilization. RB - Original Message - From: Chan Mahanta To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 2:01 PM Subject: [Assam] From Tehelka---Manu's Memorial Is it a simple, harmless symbol of cultural heritage? Or is there a whole lot more to it? cm THE WORSHIP OF FALSE GODS http://www.tehelka.com/story_main31.asp?filename=Cr070707shadow_lines.asp http://www.tehelka.com/story_main31.asp?filename=Cr070707shadow_lines.asp When a new building was constructed in Jaipur for the state High Court, the local Bar Association put forward a proposal for the installation of a statue of Manu to beautify the premises. From proposal to completion, the entire plan was kept a close secret, never made public until the statue was in place. Manu was the creator of the varna system under which Hindu society for centuries denied all basic human rights and dignity to Dalits. For us, a statue of Manu can only symbolise the unjust social structure imposed on us from time immemorial. All the oppression we continue to suffer is because of Manu and his treatise, the Manudharma Sastra. We turn to the courts when we are in trouble. Can we ever expect justice from a court which we enter looking at Manu's idol? The Constitution has attempted to improve the condition of Dalits through law, but Manu's words have been an unwritten stricture the law cannot touch. Had Manu's statue been installed anywhere else, perhaps we would not have cared to react. But to see such homage paid to a figure who represents all that is unjust in this society, and that too standing proud in the premises of the Rajasthan High Court, is shocking. It is beyond acceptance. We turn to the courts when we are in trouble, which for us is almost perennial. What worse message could we receive? Can we ever expect justice from a court which we enter looking at Manu's idol? It only tells us that even the High Court subscribes to Manu's ideology. On the other hand, the statue of Dr BR Ambedkar, the father of our Constitution, has been shunted to an invisible corner. It says a lot about the mentality of the judiciary and the government in Rajasthan. How is such a system to contribute to the constitutional ideal of a casteless society? The statue was installed on June 28, 1989, and we have been fighting it ever since. There were huge protests all over the state soon after it was put up, and a full bench of the High Court ordered that it be removed
[Assam] From Tehelka---Manu's Memorial
Is it a simple, harmless symbol of cultural heritage? Or is there a whole lot more to it? cm THE WORSHIP OF FALSE GODS http://www.tehelka.com/story_main31.asp?filename=Cr070707shadow_lines.asp When a new building was constructed in Jaipur for the state High Court, the local Bar Association put forward a proposal for the installation of a statue of Manu to beautify the premises. From proposal to completion, the entire plan was kept a close secret, never made public until the statue was in place. Manu was the creator of the varna system under which Hindu society for centuries denied all basic human rights and dignity to Dalits. For us, a statue of Manu can only symbolise the unjust social structure imposed on us from time immemorial. All the oppression we continue to suffer is because of Manu and his treatise, the Manudharma Sastra. We turn to the courts when we are in trouble. Can we ever expect justice from a court which we enter looking at Manu's idol? The Constitution has attempted to improve the condition of Dalits through law, but Manu's words have been an unwritten stricture the law cannot touch. Had Manu's statue been installed anywhere else, perhaps we would not have cared to react. But to see such homage paid to a figure who represents all that is unjust in this society, and that too standing proud in the premises of the Rajasthan High Court, is shocking. It is beyond acceptance. We turn to the courts when we are in trouble, which for us is almost perennial. What worse message could we receive? Can we ever expect justice from a court which we enter looking at Manu's idol? It only tells us that even the High Court subscribes to Manu's ideology. On the other hand, the statue of Dr BR Ambedkar, the father of our Constitution, has been shunted to an invisible corner. It says a lot about the mentality of the judiciary and the government in Rajasthan. How is such a system to contribute to the constitutional ideal of a casteless society? The statue was installed on June 28, 1989, and we have been fighting it ever since. There were huge protests all over the state soon after it was put up, and a full bench of the High Court ordered that it be removed within 48 hours. We were all happy, but soon after that the Vishwa Hindu Parishad's Acharya Dharmendra filed a writ petition in the court of Justice Mahender Bhushan, who passed a stay order on July 27, 1989 - as a result the statue is there till date. There are many cases dating back to 1989 that have seen their final hearings, but not this one. Each time this case comes to a final hearing, the bench postpones it on the grounds that it is a very sensitive issue. But we will not give up easily - we haven't so far, and we will not in the future. We will continue to file applications asking for a final hearing in this case. We want to see how they will justify their deliberate delays. We install statues of Ambedkar because that's our way of reclaiming our lost dignity. But why is the government installing a statue of Manu? The very government which is supposed to have no biases towards any religion or caste. Let there be Manu statues wherever anyone pleases, but the government should not be a party to it. Mimroth is a Jaipur-based advocate As told to Praveen Donthi ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka---Manu's Memorial
C-da: The symbol can only be as harmless as the heritage it represents :-). Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chan Mahanta Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 2:01 PM To: assam@assamnet.org Subject: [Assam] From Tehelka---Manu's Memorial Is it a simple, harmless symbol of cultural heritage? Or is there a whole lot more to it? cm THE WORSHIP OF FALSE GODS http://www.tehelka.com/story_main31.asp?filename=Cr070707shadow_lines.as p ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka---Manu's Memorial
How succinct, Santanu :-)! At 2:54 PM -0500 7/5/07, Roy, Santanu wrote: C-da: The symbol can only be as harmless as the heritage it represents :-). Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chan Mahanta Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 2:01 PM To: assam@assamnet.org Subject: [Assam] From Tehelka---Manu's Memorial Is it a simple, harmless symbol of cultural heritage? Or is there a whole lot more to it? cm THE WORSHIP OF FALSE GODS http://www.tehelka.com/story_main31.asp?filename=Cr070707shadow_lines.as p ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka---Manu's Memorial
Is there not a separation of State and Religion in the seculiar Indian Constitution which prohibits such display of Hindu religeous figures in public place? How can the symbol of Manu harmless? I think he is the cause of the overall deteriation of the Indian civilization. RB - Original Message - From: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 2:01 PM Subject: [Assam] From Tehelka---Manu's Memorial Is it a simple, harmless symbol of cultural heritage? Or is there a whole lot more to it? cm THE WORSHIP OF FALSE GODS http://www.tehelka.com/story_main31.asp?filename=Cr070707shadow_lines.asp When a new building was constructed in Jaipur for the state High Court, the local Bar Association put forward a proposal for the installation of a statue of Manu to beautify the premises. From proposal to completion, the entire plan was kept a close secret, never made public until the statue was in place. Manu was the creator of the varna system under which Hindu society for centuries denied all basic human rights and dignity to Dalits. For us, a statue of Manu can only symbolise the unjust social structure imposed on us from time immemorial. All the oppression we continue to suffer is because of Manu and his treatise, the Manudharma Sastra. We turn to the courts when we are in trouble. Can we ever expect justice from a court which we enter looking at Manu's idol? The Constitution has attempted to improve the condition of Dalits through law, but Manu's words have been an unwritten stricture the law cannot touch. Had Manu's statue been installed anywhere else, perhaps we would not have cared to react. But to see such homage paid to a figure who represents all that is unjust in this society, and that too standing proud in the premises of the Rajasthan High Court, is shocking. It is beyond acceptance. We turn to the courts when we are in trouble, which for us is almost perennial. What worse message could we receive? Can we ever expect justice from a court which we enter looking at Manu's idol? It only tells us that even the High Court subscribes to Manu's ideology. On the other hand, the statue of Dr BR Ambedkar, the father of our Constitution, has been shunted to an invisible corner. It says a lot about the mentality of the judiciary and the government in Rajasthan. How is such a system to contribute to the constitutional ideal of a casteless society? The statue was installed on June 28, 1989, and we have been fighting it ever since. There were huge protests all over the state soon after it was put up, and a full bench of the High Court ordered that it be removed within 48 hours. We were all happy, but soon after that the Vishwa Hindu Parishad's Acharya Dharmendra filed a writ petition in the court of Justice Mahender Bhushan, who passed a stay order on July 27, 1989 - as a result the statue is there till date. There are many cases dating back to 1989 that have seen their final hearings, but not this one. Each time this case comes to a final hearing, the bench postpones it on the grounds that it is a very sensitive issue. But we will not give up easily - we haven't so far, and we will not in the future. We will continue to file applications asking for a final hearing in this case. We want to see how they will justify their deliberate delays. We install statues of Ambedkar because that's our way of reclaiming our lost dignity. But why is the government installing a statue of Manu? The very government which is supposed to have no biases towards any religion or caste. Let there be Manu statues wherever anyone pleases, but the government should not be a party to it. Mimroth is a Jaipur-based advocate As told to Praveen Donthi ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] From Tehelka
'If the State is violent, there will be counter-violence' Revolutionary poet and ideologue Varavara Rao How do you react when Maoists enact a brutal massacre such as this? It is only the symptom of what is happening on the ground. The issue is simple. Multinationals are making huge inroads with the help of corrupt governments and contractors. The Maoists' movement had stopped the mnc drain on the region's resources, but of late they have begun to exploit the area again. In addition, the government is repressing people in the name of Salva Judum, which is nothing but a State-sponsored war upon the people. The media has reported more than 50 policemen killed in the incident, but do you know 39 of them were Salva Judum activists whom the government has armed and given uniforms? 'The government is repressing people in the name of Salva Judum, which is a State-sponsored war' Do you justify violence as a political tactic, though? What is the option? You must ask this question to the State which is the main instrument of violence today. Those who stand up for the rights of the masses often have no recourse but to resist State violence; Maoists are indulging in counter-violence, that's all, they have to defend themselves. Is there a possibility they could give up arms and begin talks? Again, ask the State. If it ends Salva Judum and the people of the area are allowed to return home safe, there will be a reduction in violence. But if the State continues to oppress people, there will be retaliation. How do you respond to a ceasefire proposal? Let the government declare it, the revolutionary movement will take a decision. More than 60 people were killed in Nandigram by the State and nobody calls that violence. These were people trying to protect their land and the police just butchered them. There is no outcry about that kind of violence. Why? When the State is so violent, there will be violence in society. Where do you see the movement heading? Is there a goal in sight? This is a time for all revolutionary, democratic and nationality movements, like the ones in Kashmir and the Northeast to unite, and something will come out of this unity. We have very little expectations of the State and the comprador class that it represents. Sankarshan Thakur Mar 31 , 2007___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] About Assam---From Tehelka
Xonzoi gives a balanced view of what has been going on, unlike the knee-jerk reactions of the desi-media and Assam 'intellectuals' with short memories and even shallower perceptions. cm Assam is Many Problems, But is Anyone Listening? The many non-migrant ethnic conflicts have been forgotten. http://www.fromallangles.com/newspapers/country/india/tehelka.com.htm Sanjay Barbora The recent deaths of more than 60 Hindi-speaking migrants are the latest in the saga of ethnic conflicts that have ravaged Assam. While the victims' identities have been written about, the media and security agencies have only alluded to the identities of the perpetrators. In every instance, the authorities have been quick to blame armed opposition groups, send in more forces and never offer any concrete evidence about what happens thereafter. As a result, there is very little evidence about the genesis and trajectories of the conflicts and the manner in which its victims have had recourse to justice and reconciliation. One would think that given the persistence of such events, the Central and Assam governments would have worked out a mechanism to address the root of such conflicts. Now, it would seem as though both governments have chosen to deploy more troops instead of opting for measures conducive to ethnic reconciliation and peace. The Centre's decision to intensify operations against groups like the United Liberation Front of Asom (ulfa) is bewildering. The recent attacks occurred when peace talks with the ulfa had reached an impasse. While talks were possible in 2005-06, the Indian Army continued its operations against the ulfa, leading the group to carry out its campaigns. Reports citing security sources alleged that the ulfa was continuing its non-military activities like recruitment and taxation. Such comments have played an important part in the uncritical demand for more military intervention and has given the Indian Army a peg to continue with a dangerous status quo that includes retaining draconian laws like the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act. When more than 30,000 victims of ethnic violence still live in relief camps, one wonders how introducing more troops in rural areas will help ameliorate their lives. The political community in India (including the Army) claims these measures are aimed at exacting revenge for the killings of migrant workers. Considering the fact that the killings of Dimasa and Karbi people (and Hmar, Santhal, Assamese and Bodo before them) went on for months before the authorities reacted, the prompt decision to crush ulfa adds to the belief that some lives are more important. The reaction to the migrants' killing has added to the doubt that differences in language and culture are responsible for the lack of interest in the loss of non-migrants' lives. How else can one explain the current clamour for retribution when victims of ethnic conflict have been demanding justice for the past decade? Public discourse in Assam is caught between two poles: on one end is the rhetoric of ethnic plurality and on the other, paranoia about others. Local organisations often speak of a loss of culture because of unchecked migration. It is a fact that Assam's population has increased according to the 2001 Census. However, this is nothing new and ever since a certain Mr. Mullan recorded his apocalyptic vision of the invasion of Assam by land hungry Mymensighias in 1931, generations of commentators have used the same line. Such simplistic re-hashing of an old note is evident in the outpouring of concern about Bangladeshis rushing in to fill the place of the Hindi-speaking migrants. Further, the governments have not been able to address the land alienation of smaller groups as land remains the favoured gift to those who embrace the Constitution. Be it in Karbi Anglong, or in Tinsukia, communities pushed out by ill-served laws are being forced to compete against one another. Under these conditions, the wisdom of sending more troops seems flawed. The military disposition and lack of will to evolve an alternate vocabulary of justice and reconciliation has led to the rise of ethnic militias, accountable only to their people. The Central and state governments would have gained legitimacy had genuine engagement for peace continued between armed groups and civilian intermediaries. But by choosing to disengage after offering rhetoric, the political classes have managed to fuel fears that smaller communities are going to be at the receiving end of India's claims to being a superpower. Ethnic conflicts are perhaps the result of a misplaced sense of fear among communities. Surely, the best way to engage with this is to allay fears than seek to discipline them. Renewing the peace processes with different groups would be a more sustainable process to ensure reconciliation between the different peoples of Assam. Barbora is the Guwahati-based
Re: [Assam] About Assam---From Tehelka
welcome back Chandanda.. Assamnet was missing you!! On 2/2/07, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Xonzoi gives a balanced view of what has been going on, unlike the knee-jerk reactions of the desi-media and Assam 'intellectuals' with short memories and even shallower perceptions. cm Assam is Many Problems, But is Anyone Listening? The many non-migrant ethnic conflicts have been forgotten. http://www.fromallangles.com/newspapers/country/india/tehelka.com.htm Sanjay Barbora The recent deaths of more than 60 Hindi-speaking migrants are the latest in the saga of ethnic conflicts that have ravaged Assam. While the victims' identities have been written about, the media and security agencies have only alluded to the identities of the perpetrators. In every instance, the authorities have been quick to blame armed opposition groups, send in more forces and never offer any concrete evidence about what happens thereafter. As a result, there is very little evidence about the genesis and trajectories of the conflicts and the manner in which its victims have had recourse to justice and reconciliation. One would think that given the persistence of such events, the Central and Assam governments would have worked out a mechanism to address the root of such conflicts. Now, it would seem as though both governments have chosen to deploy more troops instead of opting for measures conducive to ethnic reconciliation and peace. The Centre's decision to intensify operations against groups like the United Liberation Front of Asom (ulfa) is bewildering. The recent attacks occurred when peace talks with the ulfa had reached an impasse. While talks were possible in 2005-06, the Indian Army continued its operations against the ulfa, leading the group to carry out its campaigns. Reports citing security sources alleged that the ulfa was continuing its non-military activities like recruitment and taxation. Such comments have played an important part in the uncritical demand for more military intervention and has given the Indian Army a peg to continue with a dangerous status quo that includes retaining draconian laws like the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act. When more than 30,000 victims of ethnic violence still live in relief camps, one wonders how introducing more troops in rural areas will help ameliorate their lives. The political community in India (including the Army) claims these measures are aimed at exacting revenge for the killings of migrant workers. Considering the fact that the killings of Dimasa and Karbi people (and Hmar, Santhal, Assamese and Bodo before them) went on for months before the authorities reacted, the prompt decision to crush ulfa adds to the belief that some lives are more important. The reaction to the migrants' killing has added to the doubt that differences in language and culture are responsible for the lack of interest in the loss of non-migrants' lives. How else can one explain the current clamour for retribution when victims of ethnic conflict have been demanding justice for the past decade? Public discourse in Assam is caught between two poles: on one end is the rhetoric of ethnic plurality and on the other, paranoia about others. Local organisations often speak of a loss of culture because of unchecked migration. It is a fact that Assam's population has increased according to the 2001 Census. However, this is nothing new and ever since a certain Mr. Mullan recorded his apocalyptic vision of the invasion of Assam by land hungry Mymensighias in 1931, generations of commentators have used the same line. Such simplistic re-hashing of an old note is evident in the outpouring of concern about Bangladeshis rushing in to fill the place of the Hindi-speaking migrants. Further, the governments have not been able to address the land alienation of smaller groups as land remains the favoured gift to those who embrace the Constitution. Be it in Karbi Anglong, or in Tinsukia, communities pushed out by ill-served laws are being forced to compete against one another. Under these conditions, the wisdom of sending more troops seems flawed. The military disposition and lack of will to evolve an alternate vocabulary of justice and reconciliation has led to the rise of ethnic militias, accountable only to their people. The Central and state governments would have gained legitimacy had genuine engagement for peace continued between armed groups and civilian intermediaries. But by choosing to disengage after offering rhetoric, the political classes have managed to fuel fears that smaller communities are going to be at the receiving end of India's claims to being a superpower. Ethnic conflicts are perhaps the result of a misplaced sense of fear among communities. Surely, the best way to engage with this is to allay fears than seek to discipline them. Renewing the peace processes with different groups would be a more sustainable process to ensure reconciliation between the different peoples of
Re: [Assam] About Assam---From Tehelka
Thanks Manoj for the kind words. But are you suggesting assam-netters are masochistic :-)? c-da At 4:24 AM +0530 2/2/07, Manoj Das wrote: welcome back Chandanda.. Assamnet was missing you!! ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] From Tehelka
This is yet another severe indictment of Indian justice! cm CURRENT AFFAIRS Cover Story GUILTY OF AN UNSOLVED CRIME ? The Supreme Court acknowledges that Mohammed Afzal Guru is not a terrorist and that they have no direct evidence against him. Is he on death row on the basis of a shoddy probe? Mihir Srivastava looks at critical questions still unanswered The thoroughness of the probe can be judged by the court's remarks. It pulled up the police for faking arrest memos and doctoring telephone conversations December 13, 2001. Five heavily armed persons stormed the Parliament House complex and inflicted heavy casualties on the security men on duty. This unprecedented event bewildered the entire nation and sent shockwaves across the globe. In the gun battle that lasted thirty minutes, these five terrorists who tried to gain entry into the Parliament when it was in session, were killed. Nine persons including eight security personnel and one gardener succumbed to the bullets of the terrorists and 16 persons including 13 security men received injuries. The five terrorists were ultimately killed - From the Supreme Court judgement. Six years and three judgements later, we still do not 'reliably' know who attacked Parliament on December 13, 2001. What we do know is that Mohammed Afzal Guru, the alleged conspirator, was awarded the death penalty but is he being made a scapegoat? Is Afzal being held guilty for a crime that is still unsolved? Consider this: the 'comprehensive investigation' of the attack on Parliament was completed in 17 days flat by the investigators - the Special Cell of the Delhi Police. The prosecution story of who attacked Parliament, which is popularly believed to be the real story, is based on the confession of the main accused Afzal Guru to the police under the Prevention of Terrorist Activities Act (POTA). The Supreme Court has dubbed this confession, and thus, in effect, the conspiracy theory behind the attack floated by the police, as unreliable. There are 12 accused in the Parliament attack case. Five of them - Mohammad, Tariq, Hamza, Rana and Raja - were killed when they tried to lay siege on Parliament. The other three - Gazi Baba, Masood Azhar and Tariq, allegedly the masterminds behind the attack and Lashkar-e-Toiba (let) and Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM) operatives - were never arrested. Gazi Baba was shot in an encounter with security forces in 2004. His body was recognised by Afzal's brother. Only four accused were arrested: Afzal Guru, his cousin Shaukat Hussain Guru, Shaukat's wife Afsan Guru and SAR Geelani, a teacher of Arabic in Delhi University. Geelani and Afsan were acquitted. Not one of them was convicted under POTA charges. Afzal does not belong to any banned terrorist organisation. Shaukat was sentenced to 10 years rigorous imprisonment because he knew about the conspiracy. Afzal was given the death sentence on the charges of murder and for waging war against the State. Quick probe but no direct evidence against Afzal The thoroughness with which the investigations of such an important case were carried out can be judged by the remarks made by the Delhi High Court. The court has pulled up the investigators for the production of false arrest memos, doctoring of telephone conversations and the illegal confining of people to force them to sign blank papers. Despite these observations, the courts did not pass any strictures against the officers for their shoddy and illegal investigations, says Nandita Haksar, Geelani's lawyer. There is no direct evidence against Afzal. None of the 80 prosecution witnesses ever even alleged that Afzal was in any way associated with or belonged to any terrorist organisation. He has been awarded the death sentence entirely on the basis of circumstantial evidence. Afzal did not shy away from admitting the possibly incriminating fact that he brought Mohammad from Kashmir and that he accompanied him when the latter purchased a second-hand Ambassador, two days before the attack. The Supreme Court in its judgement observes that even when his lawyer attempted to deny this fact during the trial, Afzal insisted that he indeed had accompanied Mohammad. They didn't need to die: Parliament staff pay homage to security personnel who died in the attack The former Thane Police chief claimed that they had arrested Hamza and handed him over to JK cops in December 2000 Why was the STF's involvement not probed? In the same vein, Afzal maintains that he did this at the behest of the Special Task Force (STF) of the Jammu and Kashmir police. Afzal alleged in a letter to his lawyer Sushil Kumar in the Supreme Court that Davinder Singh, Deputy sp of Humhama, in Jammu and Kashmir, asked him to take Mohammad to Delhi and arrange for his stay there. Since I was not knowing the man, but I suspected this man is not Kashmiri, as he did not speak
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
security personnel and one gardener succumbed to the bullets of the terrorists and 16 persons including 13 security men received injuries. The five terrorists were ultimately killed Iwas clear that very evening"This is typical stage-managed RAW stuff mm From:Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:assam@assamnet.orgSubject:[Assam] From TehelkaDate:Tue, 24 Oct 2006 12:41:56 -0500This is yet another severe indictment of Indian justice!cmCURRENT AFFAIRSCover StoryGUILTY OF AN UNSOLVED CRIME ?The Supreme Court acknowledges that MohammedAfzal Guru is not a terrorist and that they haveno direct evidence against him. Is he on deathrow on the basis of a shoddy probe? MihirSrivastava looks at critical questions stillunansweredThe thoroughness of the probe can be judged bythe court's remarks. It pulled up the police forfaking arrest memos and doctoring telephoneconversationsDecember 13, 2001. "Five heavily armed personsstormed the Parliament House complex andinflicted heavy casualties on the security men onduty. This unprecedented event bewildered theentire nation and sent shockwaves across theglobe. In the gun battle that lasted thirtyminutes, these five terrorists who tried to gainentry into the Parliament when it was in session,were killed. Nine persons including eightsecurity personnel and one gardener succumbed tothe bullets of the terrorists and 16 personsincluding 13 security men received injuries. Thefive terrorists were ultimately killed" - Fromthe Supreme Court judgement.Six years and three judgements later, we still donot 'reliably' know who attacked Parliament onDecember 13, 2001. What we do know is thatMohammed Afzal Guru, the alleged conspirator, wasawarded the death penalty but is he being made ascapegoat? Is Afzal being held guilty for a crimethat is still unsolved? Consider this: the 'comprehensive investigation'of the attack on Parliament was completed in 17days flat by the investigators - the Special Cellof the Delhi Police. The prosecution story of whoattacked Parliament, which is popularly believedto be the real story, is based on the confessionof the main accused Afzal Guru to the policeunder the Prevention of Terrorist Activities Act(POTA). The Supreme Court has dubbed thisconfession, and thus, in effect, the conspiracytheory behind the attack floated by the police,as "unreliable". There are 12 accused in the Parliament attackcase. Five of them - Mohammad, Tariq, Hamza, Ranaand Raja - were killed when they tried to laysiege on Parliament. The other three - Gazi Baba,Masood Azhar and Tariq, allegedly the mastermindsbehind the attack and Lashkar-e-Toiba (let) andJaish-e-Mohammad (JeM) operatives - were neverarrested. Gazi Baba was shot in an encounter withsecurity forces in 2004. His body was recognisedby Afzal's brother. Only four accused werearrested: Afzal Guru, his cousin Shaukat HussainGuru, Shaukat's wife Afsan Guru and SAR Geelani,a teacher of Arabic in Delhi University. Geelaniand Afsan were acquitted. Not one of them wasconvicted under POTA charges. Afzal does notbelong to any banned terrorist organisation.Shaukat was sentenced to 10 years rigorousimprisonment because he knew about theconspiracy. Afzal was given the death sentence onthe charges of murder and for waging war againstthe State.Quick probe but no direct evidence against Afzal The thoroughness with which the investigationsof such an important case were carried out can bejudged by the remarks made by the Delhi HighCourt. The court has pulled up the investigatorsfor the production of false arrest memos,doctoring of telephone conversations and theillegal confining of people to force them to signblank papers. Despite these observations, "thecourts did not pass any strictures against theofficers for their shoddy and illegalinvestigations," says Nandita Haksar, Geelani'slawyer.There is no direct evidence against Afzal. Noneof the 80 prosecution witnesses ever even allegedthat Afzal was in any way associated with orbelonged to any terrorist organisation. He hasbeen awarded the death sentence entirely on thebasis of circumstantial evidence. Afzal did notshy away from admitting the possiblyincriminating fact that he brought Mohammad fromKashmir and that he accompanied him when thelatter purchased a second-hand Ambassador, twodays before the attack. The Supreme Court in itsjudgement observes that even when his lawyerattempted to deny this fact during the trial,Afzal insisted that he indeed had accompaniedMohammad. They didn't need to die: Parliament staff payhomage to security personnel who died in theattackThe former Thane Police chief claimed that theyhad arrested Hamza and handed him over to JKcops in December 2000Why was the STF's involvement not probed? In the same vein, Afzal maintains that he didthis at the behest of the Special Task Force(STF) of the Jammu and Kashmir police. Afzalalleged in a letter to his lawyer Sushil Kumar inthe Supreme Court that Davinder Singh, Deputy spof Humhama, in Jammu and Kashmir, asked him
[Assam] From Tehelka: Bonded for Life Laborers
Title: [Assam] From Tehelka: Bonded for Life Laborers I posted this in Assamnet before. But thought it might be a good one to conside along with my responses to Ram regarding Indians' soft corner for children. cm THE MINING MAFIA HAS LABOUR BONDED FOR LIFE Stone age on Delhi's border The recent rescue of 114 bonded labourers, including children, from Haryana reveals that the authorities and mine owners are still conniving to hire and exploit bonded labour, abolished in 1976. Etmad Ahmad Khan investigates Pitiless In The Pits: Most of the mines in Haryana function illegally and exploit workers Photo Dharmender Ruhil Women in Pichupa Kalan mines were forced back to work barely eight days after delivering babies * Twenty-one-year old Bijendar Singh was blown to pieces as he was dangerously close to the explosion site. * Satpal Singh, 23, succumbed to his injuries after a heavy stone fell on his chest. * Mahipal Singh, 38, was crushed to death under a trolley carrying stones. * Dalbir Singh, 35, joined the list after the rope holding him at a height of 150 feet gave way. The list goes on, endless in its brutality and its sheer deathliness. Poor labourers continue to add statistics to a list that should not even exist as mining is mostly banned in Haryana. But even today, poor migrants in search of money end up as bonded labour in the inhuman and unsafe environs of Haryana's mines. No compensation has been paid to the dead. No one has even complained, simply because they don't even know that they can. Only three weeks ago, Bachpan Bachao Andolan, an ngo, stepped in to rescue 114 bonded slaves, of which 56 were children, mostly girls. Ever since the now dethroned Om Prakash Chautala government monopolised the mining business in the state by auctioning quarries to private companies, violation of rules, regulations and safety norms has become the order of the day. Apart from cases of death, there are hundreds who have lost their limbs and eyes due to unsafe explosions and avoidable accidents in the mines. Thirty-eight-year-old Dalbir Singh lost his eyes in an accident while working in a mine in Khanak, a village in Tosham area of Bhiwani district of Haryana. After I lost my eyes, I was kicked out of my job. I have six children. I am very worried about our future. Now, I do odd jobs here and there to survive, says Dalbir. Another labourer Bahadur Singh is unemployed at 22 after he lost one eye when a stone burst through his eyeball. Exploitation of labour is a norm in the mines of Haryana and hundreds of children can be spotted working day and night in these mines. But a nexus among Haryana politicians, mine owners and contractors has meant that no one is punished for this. No one is, because the administration too is a part of the unholy nexus. The district administration for instance, refused to give release certificates for the 114 who were rescued. The certificate would have been proof of the fact that the archaic practice of bonded labour is still thriving. It would also have forced the state government to give Rs 20,000 each as rehabilitation expenses. Of this amount, half is given by the Central government but since 1993, Haryana has not issued a single release certificate. In the last five years alone, Bachpan Bachao Andolan has rescued 1,000 bonded workers but, says its general secretary RS Chaurasia, The state government seems to think that bonded means someone who is literally chained at their feet. Release certificates would go a long way in offering respite. The certificate entitles workers to allotment of a house on priority through the Indira Awas Yojna, admission in schools for children and a monthly pension of Rs 100. Labour and safety laws are, in fact, being violated in connivance with the government. All mine owners are supposed to keep basic records like wage registers, attendance registers, leave registers, accident and medical records. No mine in Haryana's Bhiwani district, however, has maintained any record. Nor have the mandatory identity cards been issued to the wage earners. On the contrary, the owners keep a strict eye on their slaves, ensuring that they don't run away. They are allowed to go on leave only when they leave some family members behind. Most of the labourers in these mines are migrants from Bihar, UP, Uttaranchal and Rajasthan. Agents of the contractors in these states lure them to the mines by promising them a better future. Once they reach here, the contractors give them advance payments on which they charge interest. Perennial penury would have it that most of them get into the debt trap of the contractors and end up as bonded slaves working for extremely low wages. In Khanak alone, more than 350 labourers reportedly died during mining activities in the past nine years in separate accidents. In 2001, following several incidents of deaths in the mines, the labourers launched a movement demanding safe working conditions and an end to exploitation
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka: Bonded for Life Laborers
C'da, This is a really sad story, and the culprits who are party to this must be brought to book. This is not what any society wants. But it still does not help your case. Wherein this or other such stories does it say (or one can discern from)that Indians or Indian middle class are happy about children being exploited? But a nexus among Haryana politicians, mine owners and contractors has meant that no one is punished for this. No one is, because the administration too is a part of the unholy nexus Of course, there are corrupt politicians and corrupt people in the Harayana administration, and that is why this story has come out to raise an awareness among the people. Do any of like this? There is no broadbased 'unholy' nexus amongst the middle class. But, I can say with degree that any one with a good head on his shoulders will not be making excuses for this practice. In the case of terrorists, it was a group effort to use children. In this case, the society is not for such attrocities in Harayana or elsewhere. But have we seen the ulfa or its sympathizers even remotely concerned about this latest strategy by the ulfa? For them, it seems, its all fair game, because they seek some higher calling for 'freedom', where children are obviously expendable. --Ram On 10/20/06, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I posted this in Assamnet before. But thought it might be a good one to conside along with my responses to Ram regarding Indians' soft corner for children. cm THE MINING MAFIA HAS LABOUR BONDED FOR LIFE Stone age on Delhi's borderThe recent rescue of 114 bonded labourers, including children, from Haryana reveals that the authorities and mine owners are still conniving to hire and exploit bonded labour, abolished in 1976. Etmad Ahmad Khan investigates Pitiless In The Pits: Most of the mines in Haryana function illegally and exploit workersPhoto Dharmender RuhilWomen in Pichupa Kalan mines were forced back to work barely eight days after delivering babies * Twenty-one-year old Bijendar Singh was blown to pieces as he was dangerously close to the explosion site.* Satpal Singh, 23, succumbed to his injuries after a heavy stone fell on his chest.* Mahipal Singh, 38, was crushed to death under a trolley carrying stones. * Dalbir Singh, 35, joined the list after the rope holding him at a height of 150 feet gave way.The list goes on, endless in its brutality and its sheer deathliness. Poor labourers continue to add statistics to a list that should not even exist as mining is mostly banned in Haryana. But even today, poor migrants in search of money end up as bonded labour in the inhuman and unsafe environs of Haryana's mines. No compensation has been paid to the dead. No one has even complained, simply because they don't even know that they can. Only three weeks ago, Bachpan Bachao Andolan, an ngo, stepped in to rescue 114 bonded slaves, of which 56 were children, mostly girls. Ever since the now dethroned Om Prakash Chautala government monopolised the mining business in the state by auctioning quarries to private companies, violation of rules, regulations and safety norms has become the order of the day. Apart from cases of death, there are hundreds who have lost their limbs and eyes due to unsafe explosions and avoidable accidents in the mines. Thirty-eight-year-old Dalbir Singh lost his eyes in an accident while working in a mine in Khanak, a village in Tosham area of Bhiwani district of Haryana. After I lost my eyes, I was kicked out of my job. I have six children. I am very worried about our future. Now, I do odd jobs here and there to survive, says Dalbir. Another labourer Bahadur Singh is unemployed at 22 after he lost one eye when a stone burst through his eyeball. Exploitation of labour is a norm in the mines of Haryana and hundreds of children can be spotted working day and night in these mines. But a nexus among Haryana politicians, mine owners and contractors has meant that no one is punished for this. No one is, because the administration too is a part of the unholy nexus. The district administration for instance, refused to give release certificates for the 114 who were rescued. The certificate would have been proof of the fact that the archaic practice of bonded labour is still thriving. It would also have forced the state government to give Rs 20,000 each as rehabilitation expenses. Of this amount, half is given by the Central government but since 1993, Haryana has not issued a single release certificate. In the last five years alone, Bachpan Bachao Andolan has rescued 1,000 bonded workers but, says its general secretary RS Chaurasia, The state government seems to think that bonded means someone who is literally chained at their feet. Release certificates would go a long way in offering respite. The certificate entitles workers to allotment of a house on priority through the Indira Awas Yojna, admission in schools for children and a monthly pension of Rs 100. Labour and
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka: Bonded for Life Laborers
Title: Re: [Assam] From Tehelka: Bonded for Life Laborers At 1:22 PM -0500 10/20/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da, This is a really sad story, and the culprits who are party to this must be brought to book. This is not what any society wants. *** You are a good man! And you can take pride in reflecting the entire, righteous middle class of India today. They do excel in expressing their righteousness, with no words minced, along with railing against corruption that pervades their society and calling those politicians what they deserve to be called. That is the good part. But do you know what the bad part is Ram? If you didn't know, they are CLUELESS about what to do about it? If only wishes came true, even though they are s very righteous, without themselves having to do anything about it! It is just like all the righteous and the sanctimonious of Assam and their reflectors in our midst :-) wishing ULFA away . Of course, there are corrupt politicians and corrupt people in the Harayana administration, Careful Ram! You are dangerously comparing them with the Assamese, who, obviously are THE most corrupt of them all. But, I can say with degree that any one with a good head on his shoulders will not be making excuses for this practice. *** You are so right! Now let us, all the righteous of Assamnet along with the blessed of Haryana, wish, as hard as we possibly can, off with the heads of these bad, bad folks of Haryana. For that is all they can do, ain't it? In the case of terrorists, it was a group effort to use children. *** You finally nailed this coffin shut Ram :-)! That's it: ULFA uses group effort at child exploitation, while the Great Indian Middle Classes' exploitation is individual. And since they are not their brothers' keepers, how can we equate them to them group exploiters? You said it Ram :-). c-da But it still does not help your case. Wherein this or other such stories does it say (or one can discern from)that Indians or Indian middle class are happy about children being exploited? But a nexus among Haryana politicians, mine owners and contractors has meant that no one is punished for this. No one is, because the administration too is a part of the unholy nexus Of course, there are corrupt politicians and corrupt people in the Harayana administration, and that is why this story has come out to raise an awareness among the people. Do any of like this? There is no broadbased 'unholy' nexus amongst the middle class. But, I can say with degree that any one with a good head on his shoulders will not be making excuses for this practice. In the case of terrorists, it was a group effort to use children. In this case, the society is not for such attrocities in Harayana or elsewhere. But have we seen the ulfa or its sympathizers even remotely concerned about this latest strategy by the ulfa? For them, it seems, its all fair game, because they seek some higher calling for 'freedom', where children are obviously expendable. --Ram On 10/20/06, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I posted this in Assamnet before. But thought it might be a good one to conside along with my responses to Ram regarding Indians' soft corner for children. cm THE MINING MAFIA HAS LABOUR BONDED FOR LIFE Stone age on Delhi's border The recent rescue of 114 bonded labourers, including children, from Haryana reveals that the authorities and mine owners are still conniving to hire and exploit bonded labour, abolished in 1976. Etmad Ahmad Khan investigates Pitiless In The Pits: Most of the mines in Haryana function illegally and exploit workers Photo Dharmender Ruhil Women in Pichupa Kalan mines were forced back to work barely eight days after delivering babies * Twenty-one-year old Bijendar Singh was blown to pieces as he was dangerously close to the explosion site. * Satpal Singh, 23, succumbed to his injuries after a heavy stone fell on his chest. * Mahipal Singh, 38, was crushed to death under a trolley carrying stones. * Dalbir Singh, 35, joined the list after the rope holding him at a height of 150 feet gave way. The list goes on, endless in its brutality and its sheer deathliness. Poor labourers continue to add statistics to a list that should not even exist as mining is mostly banned in Haryana. But even today, poor migrants in search of money end up as bonded labour in the inhuman and unsafe environs of Haryana's mines. No compensation has been paid to the dead. No one has even complained, simply because they don't even know that they can. Only three weeks ago, Bachpan Bachao Andolan, an ngo, stepped in to rescue 114 bonded slaves, of which 56 were children, mostly girls. Ever since the now dethroned Om Prakash Chautala government monopolised the mining business in the state by auctioning quarries to private companies, violation of rules, regulations and safety norms has become the order of the day. Apart from cases of death, there are hundreds who have lost
[Assam] From Tehelka
How true! cm REFLECTED GLORY After chasing Deepa Mehta out, India smells an opportunity to take credit. Sonia Faleiro India is never shy of claiming successful Indians - even those who hold citizenship elsewhere - as entirely her own. It's not surprising then that filmmaker Deepa Mehta's Water is seen by some as our best hope at the Oscars. Never mind that Mehta is Canadian, and that Water was literally chased out of, and blacklisted, in the nation that is now intent on bathing in its accolades. In 2000, Hindu fundamentalists stormed the sets of Water in Varanasi, threatening to beat Mehta black and blue. She postponed production, and two films later, completed the final episode of her trilogy in Sri Lanka. India supported Mehta with death threats, warnings of arrest, and mutilated freedom of expression. However, now that it's time to revel in reflected glory, India seems to have forgotten that it failed Mehta when she needed it most. Should she win, as Canada's entry to the Oscars, there will be, no doubt, boasts of how Bollywood is conquering the world. Contrast that with the fact that until recently Water had neither a distributor nor a confirmed release date here. Let's hope that any euphoria over Mehta's Indian achievement is matched with equal support of her work being peacefully seen, and that she understands and forgives our schizophrenic reactions. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
Title: Re: [Assam] From Tehelka Ram: What would I know? The report was written by an Indian :-). I think. c-da At 2:11 PM -0500 10/3/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Well! C'da it can be true in any number of such situations. Countries (and even states within them)are filled with 'pride' when one of their sons or daughters get world recognition. In 2000, Hindu fundamentalists stormed the sets of Water in Varanasi, threatening to beat Mehta black and blue. She postponed production, and two films While this is true, what is NOT true is that she was hounded out of India. I have seen a number of interviews of her on desi TV, read columns on her in newspapers. So, when convenient to make it look like 'Hindu fundas' make up some Indian attitude is abit much. India supported Mehta with death threats, warnings of arrest, and mutilated freedom of _expression_. What! Is Soniatelling us the GOI and its goons threatened Mehta all the way to Sri Lanka? Water had neither a distributor nor a confirmed release date here. Wouldn't that be a business decision? Or should the GOI force some distributor to distribute? Let's hope that any euphoria over Mehta's Indian achievement is matched with equal support of her work being peacefully seen, and that she understands and forgives our schizophrenic reactions. Right! And lets hope Mehta doesn't make a beeline to Bollywood to collect some filmy award. She should really tell those pesky Indians off. --Ram On 10/3/06, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How true! cm REFLECTED GLORY After chasing Deepa Mehta out, India smells an opportunity to take credit. Sonia Faleiro India is never shy of claiming successful Indians - even those who hold citizenship elsewhere - as entirely her own. It's not surprising then that filmmaker Deepa Mehta's Water is seen by some as our best hope at the Oscars. Never mind that Mehta is Canadian, and that Water was literally chased out of, and blacklisted, in the nation that is now intent on bathing in its accolades. In 2000, Hindu fundamentalists stormed the sets of Water in Varanasi, threatening to beat Mehta black and blue. She postponed production, and two films later, completed the final episode of her trilogy in Sri Lanka. India supported Mehta with death threats, warnings of arrest, and mutilated freedom of _expression_. However, now that it's time to revel in reflected glory, India seems to have forgotten that it failed Mehta when she needed it most. Should she win, as Canada's entry to the Oscars, there will be, no doubt, boasts of how Bollywood is conquering the world. Contrast that with the fact that until recently Water had neither a distributor nor a confirmed release date here. Let's hope that any euphoria over Mehta's Indian achievement is matched with equal support of her work being peacefully seen, and that she understands and forgives our schizophrenic reactions. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
Would it be logical for a thinking person to support something without knowing what that thing is about? Would you buy an MP3 player or a camera before judging for yourself based on the information made available to you which is best for you? If Assam's intelligentsia and the establishment (at least sizable sections of it) have to show any inclination, it has to be given reasons to do so. And the reasons almost always would be in those details. If I were in ULFA's shoes, it would be foolish not to do so. Everyone has to sell, even revolutionaries! And in the selling process, if the product is attractive enough, it reaches a tipping point. It holds true for revolutions as much as for iPods. While in Sydney recently, I chanced upon a Lebanese cabbie. A Lebanese Shiite Muslim from the South of Lebanon near the the Israeli border - no less. He was a walking, talking advertising model for Hizballah. What struck me was the simple clarity of his position and why it was attractive for him to be on Hizballah's side. I am no fan of the fundoos in the Arab world - but I did have to grudingly admit it was a formidable force. The answer to it probably have been easy to get, had Assam's intelligentsia and the establishment showed any inclination, to provide even a conditional support to ULFA's goals for Assam. Support conditioned on the RIGHT form of a system of governance; truly democratic, secular and so forth. The ones who have supported ULFA steadfastly all along have been those who are disenfranchised, at the bottom of Assam society, and a few of the rare breed from the ranks of the middle and upper-class, highly educated, informed and with the intestinal fortitude to stand and fight for what is right. Expectations for answers from those who would not give ULFA an inch, very obviously, would be completely ignored. Wouldn't you, if you were in ULFA's shoes? At 4:28 PM -0700 8/16/06, Rajib Das wrote: Yes, I agree completely. Labels of any kind don't amount to much. The Indian political class has only now started to shed labels. Within those, the ones to do so thoroughly were the Indian nationalists however. If the Indian nationalists are green with envy of China, it is great. At least envy might lead to something sustainably productive - as opposed to labeling China's progress as a CIA ploy or some such thing. The questions beneath the labels however are important. It is important to know what would be ULFA's agenda in an independent Assam (and that includes how they will govern, what freedoms would be allowed or disallowed, how will the government be run etc.). Wouldn't we all expect to get those answers to form a complete opinion? And wouldn't we be right, in the absence of any such answers, in determining that this would spell anarchy, no less? And no, the Oracle's (Mike Da) monologue, Main Hoon Na is not enough :-) --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If so, those labels are that much meaningless, aren't they? At 3:14 PM -0700 8/16/06, Rajib Das wrote: I thought that wasn't really Marxism (or for that matter Maoism) that did it in China - it simply was sheer capitalism. Before they started off on this Capitalist route 20 years before India, they were reeling off from yet another one of the Maoist (or is it Marxist) endeavors. Also, even though Marxism might not be your cup of tea or mine, can you go tell that to Chinese? A nation way worse off than India 50 years back, now has no one going hungry or homeless or without health care, leaving Indian nationalists green with envy, isn't it? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
Pradip Gogoi is/Was Ulfa's Vice Chairman when he was nabbed some 7 years back from ONGC Colony Sibsagar from where he was to have collected ONGC "Donations". He has spent all that time in Jails. Lastly 5 Years at Guahati Jail. He is one of the 5 pawns. Every week once/twice he is brought under armed escort and TRIAL takes place at IMDT Court. Every such day he makes hundreds of mobile phone calls to everybody including high ups.He is photographed,he gives interviews( and asks "Did I speak well?"). He is very generous with his guards, lawyers, magistrates.Passes Chai/Mithaii for everybody.He must havetold Tehelka what he did during such a carnival-like setting. The Whole 2-3 hours is a delectable session for many. He sometimes calls me for the next appearance and to stand by him for the TV take.Nice guy! His village is Betbari , Sibsagar,-15 miles from ours. Background- I do not know much. 50 ish. Whole lot of people work as Ulfa's Think Tank. But what will be their final stand is anybody's guess. Direct Negotiations --" Only after the 5 Executives in Jails + the ones disappeared from Bhutan sit together freed" So wait! mm From: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: "Ram Sarangapani" [EMAIL PROTECTED]CC: assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] From TehelkaDate: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 13:33:05 -0500 I don't know Pradip Gogoi from Adam, Ram, even though he is a fellow Jokaisukiya from perhaps thirty miles or so from where I grew up. I don't know under what context he said what he did. But regardless of their political creed NO revolutionary could deny Castro his due place in the history of revolutions. Similarly, regardless of the failures ( or successes) of Marxism as a system of governance, no one can deny the enormous influence Marx left in the formation of contemporary human civilization. will there be a Communistic slant in their rule? *** Even if I were to be in a position to answer such questions, I could not have answered such a vague question. What exactly is a communistic slant? Is Israel with its Kibbutzes ( Communes) and absence of private land-ownership and socialist governance 'communistic'; fit to be tarred and feathered with such simplistic labels ? How did Menachem Begin get rehabilitated as a 'freedom-fighter', while he was instrumental to blowing up Britishers and their installations and was once branded by them a 'terrorist'? What kind of cleansing solvent did Begin's followers find to wash off his 'terrorist' label? There is way too much hypocrisy and self-serving piety going on all around us today to give such labels any credence at all Ram. Particularly by people who are informed and are able to reason. c-da At 12:31 PM -0500 8/16/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da Thanks for sharing that with us. Pretty interesting. Gogoi does have the tenacity and passion - one must give him that, even though I necessarily do not see things his way. Its is intriguing that his passion for independence is built upon the ideals of Marx and Castro. The question is, if people like him become leaders of an independent Assam, will there be a Communistic slant in their rule? Just thoughts. --Ram On 8/16/06, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ULFA's Pradip Gogoi in Tehelka:http://www.fromallangles.com/newspapers/country/india/tehelka.com.htm___assam mailing listassam@assamnet.orghttp://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___assam mailing listassam@assamnet.orghttp://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
C'da, *** Is it a minus Ram? How would you describe it, had your parents been landless, indentured peasants, without a shelter to call it home and if the STATE came to your aid by ensuring you had food, shelter and health care? Yes, it would. But is that the situation in Assam? And if so, how many people are affected? Are affected numbers far greater than any other state? Indentured peasants if they exist in India, are NOT state sanctioned. Lastly, is your suggestion for solving India's (or Assam's) poverty ridden plight a communistic approach? --Ram On 8/16/06, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I did know Israel was Communistic in governance. I would, however, differentiate between socialism and communism. Countries in Scandinavia are socialistic to a degree - doesn't make them communistic. *** I am glad you have the ability to split hairs Ram :-). I am however quite curious about the fine distinctions between living in a Kibbutz, in a communal arrangement, and the unacceptability of 'communistic'. Can you help ? And that is a plus point for China? *** Is it a minus Ram? How would you describe it, had your parents been landless, indentured peasants, without a shelter to call it home and if the STATE came to your aid by ensuring you had food, shelter and health care? I am sure a lot of peple woud like to hear :-). c-da At 6:20 PM -0500 8/16/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da A nation way worse off than India 50 years back, now has no one going hungry or homeless or without health care, leaving Indian nationalists green with envy, isn't it? And that is a plus point for China? Lack of individual freedoms in China (and Cuba) are mandated by the state. Will that be sufficient for Assam - if the GOI were to provide homes, food and healthcare only? *** Considering your lumping all these three together to mean that they are all the same? All I was saying is that Hitler like Castro and Marx did have a huge influence, a negative one, but none the less an influence. *** What does that mean Ram? That them being democratic absolves them of their socialist/communistic sins? Democracy is a TOOL Ram, it is NOT and end unto itself. I did know Israel was Communistic in governance. I would, however, differentiate between socialism and communism. Countries in Scandinavia are socialistic to a degree - doesn't make them communistic. --Ram On 8/16/06, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ram: C'da, wanting and fighting for freedom is a noble thing. The way some try to get it is often ignoble - and that is the problem. *** I would not dare hold a candle to your goodness Ram :-). Marxand Castro obviously did have a hugeinfluence on human civilization. So did Hitler. *** Considering your lumping all these three together to mean that they are all the same? Is your desi-hyperbole working overtime Ram :-)? Also, even though Marxism might not be your cup of tea or mine, can you go tell that to Chinese? A nation way worse off than India 50 years back, now has no one going hungry or homeless or without health care, leaving Indian nationalists green with envy, isn't it? Similarly for Castro. He may not be your hero, but Cubans seem to think differently, don't they? Unless of course you know what is best for Cubans :-). This much I know, it is a democracy with kibbutzes and all. *** What does that mean Ram? That them being democratic absolves them of their socialist/communistic sins? Democracy is a TOOL Ram, it is NOT and end unto itself. c-da At 3:00 PM -0500 8/16/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Ouch! C'da, But regardless of their political creed NO revolutionary could deny Castro his due place in the history of revolutions. Similarly, regardless of the failures ( or successes) of Marxism as a system of governance, no one can deny the enormous influence Marx left in the formation of contemporary human civilization Good questions requiring deep thoughts.Marxand Castro obviously did have a hugeinfluence on human civilization. So did Hitler. IMHO, we judge such personalities NOT by the amount of influence they had on civilizations, but by how much good they have done for humanity either thru their teachings or they way they ruled (Cuba). Both Marx and Castro have been absolute failures in that regard. Though Marz never raised a gun, he did manage to incite a number of countries (China, Indo-Chinacomes to mind) who used/misused his doctrines to enslave huge populations for decades. That hopefully is not what those fighting for freedom in Assam want for the people of Assam. There is way too much hypocrisy and self-serving piety going on all around us today to give such labels any credence at all Ram. I agree, but there is a whale lot of difference between people who might swear by a Gandhi and those by a Hitler or a Castro. Don't know much about the form of Govt. Israel has. This much I know, it is a democracy with kibbutzes and all. But about Begin turning 'freedom
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
C'da, The ULFA has far more intelligent people to advice them then the likes of me, and they wouldn't give two hoots for my support. Your very premise of the question is wrong. I would not support any state or group of peoplewithin India seeking independence. If India has problems, then it would be incumbent upon its people to help solve them and not bailing out when the country needs them. The only positive, I can see is that because of the insurgency, Assam seems to be getting sops from the Center. Though what a lousy way to achieve such ends. My idea for India in general is for it to have autonomous States, but within the ambit and constitution of India. That way states could have more of a say in their governance and would be responsible for most things (good or bad) that would happen. The GOI would or control certain aspects of the country, while the individual states could control many of their local issues. But no state should have the right to separate. States would still have representations at the Center. That is what the ULFA should aim for - a bid for autonomous states. That way, Assam would still be a part of India, but has more control over its destiny. I think many other states would join this effort. --Ram On 8/16/06, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ram: Why don't you guys put your money where your mouths are and tell ULFA that you might support their cause of Assam's independence, provided: A: B: C; D: You fill in the gaps. If you do that and ULFA still ignores the likes of you, then I would go along with your assessment. Failing which, it is xaap hoiw khwtisa aaru bez hoiw jaarisa, know what I mean :-)? c-da At 6:49 PM -0500 8/16/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Exactly Rajib. That is why Pradip Gogoi's idealogical infatuation with the likes of Marx and Castro cannot be just set aside. All we have heard so far is that a group of insurgents want freedom at any cost. They won't give the people (that they are supposedly fighting for) a plan, what kind of governance, or even how they would envision to protect the state once it is free. --Ram On 8/16/06, Rajib Das [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I agree completely. Labels of any kind don'tamount to much. The Indian political class has onlynow started to shed labels. Within those, the ones todo so thoroughly were the Indian nationalists however. If the Indian nationalists are green with envy ofChina, it is great. At least envy might lead tosomething sustainably productive - as opposed tolabeling China's progress as a CIA ploy or some suchthing. The questions beneath the labels however areimportant.It is important to know what would be ULFA's agenda inan independent Assam (and that includes how they willgovern, what freedoms would be allowed or disallowed, how will the government be run etc.).Wouldn't we all expect to get those answers to form acomplete opinion? And wouldn't we be right, in theabsence of any such answers, in determining that this would spell anarchy, no less?And no, the Oracle's (Mike Da) monologue, Main HoonNa is not enough :-)--- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If so, those labels are that much meaningless, aren't they? At 3:14 PM -0700 8/16/06, Rajib Das wrote: I thought that wasn't really Marxism (or for that matter Maoism) that did it in China - it simply was sheer capitalism. Before they started off on this Capitalist route 20 years before India, they were reeling off from yet another one of the Maoist (or is it Marxist) endeavors. Also, even though Marxism might not be your cup of tea or mine, can you go tell that to Chinese? A nation way worse off than India 50 years back, now has no one going hungry or homeless or without health care, leaving Indian nationalists green with envy, isn't it?__ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] From Tehelka
ULFA's Pradip Gogoi in Tehelka: http://www.fromallangles.com/newspapers/country/india/tehelka.com.htm ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
C'da Thanks for sharing that with us. Pretty interesting. Gogoi does have the tenacity and passion - one must give him that, even though I necessarily do not see things his way. Its is intriguing that his passion for independence is built upon the ideals of Marx and Castro. The question is, if people like him become leaders of an independent Assam, will there be a Communistic slant in their rule? Just thoughts. --Ram On 8/16/06, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ULFA's Pradip Gogoi in Tehelka: http://www.fromallangles.com/newspapers/country/india/tehelka.com.htm___assam mailing listassam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
Title: Re: [Assam] From Tehelka I don't know Pradip Gogoi from Adam, Ram, even though he is a fellow Jokaisukiya from perhaps thirty miles or so from where I grew up. I don't know under what context he said what he did. But regardless of their political creed NO revolutionary could deny Castro his due place in the history of revolutions. Similarly, regardless of the failures ( or successes) of Marxism as a system of governance, no one can deny the enormous influence Marx left in the formation of contemporary human civilization. will there be a Communistic slant in their rule? *** Even if I were to be in a position to answer such questions, I could not have answered such a vague question. What exactly is a communistic slant? Is Israel with its Kibbutzes ( Communes) and absence of private land-ownership and socialist governance 'communistic'; fit to be tarred and feathered with such simplistic labels ? How did Menachem Begin get rehabilitated as a 'freedom-fighter', while he was instrumental to blowing up Britishers and their installations and was once branded by them a 'terrorist'? What kind of cleansing solvent did Begin's followers find to wash off his 'terrorist' label? There is way too much hypocrisy and self-serving piety going on all around us today to give such labels any credence at all Ram. Particularly by people who are informed and are able to reason. c-da At 12:31 PM -0500 8/16/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da Thanks for sharing that with us. Pretty interesting. Gogoi does have the tenacity and passion - one must give him that, even though I necessarily do not see things his way. Its is intriguing that his passion for independence is built upon the ideals of Marx and Castro. The question is, if people like him become leaders of an independent Assam, will there be a Communistic slant in their rule? Just thoughts. --Ram On 8/16/06, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ULFA's Pradip Gogoi in Tehelka: http://www.fromallangles.com/newspapers/country/india/tehelka.com.htm ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
Ouch! C'da, But regardless of their political creed NO revolutionary could deny Castro his due place in the history of revolutions. Similarly, regardless of the failures ( or successes) of Marxism as a system of governance, no one can deny the enormous influence Marx left in the formation of contemporary human civilization Good questions requiring deep thoughts.Marxand Castro obviously did have a hugeinfluence on human civilization. So did Hitler. IMHO, we judge such personalities NOT by the amount of influence they had on civilizations, but by how much good they have done for humanity either thru their teachings or they way they ruled (Cuba). Both Marx and Castro have been absolute failures in that regard. Though Marz never raised a gun, he did manage to incite a number of countries (China, Indo-Chinacomes to mind) who used/misused his doctrines to enslave huge populations for decades. That hopefully is not what those fighting for freedom in Assam want for the people of Assam. There is way too much hypocrisy and self-serving piety going on all around us today to give such labels any credence at all Ram. I agree, but there is a whale lot of difference between people who might swear by a Gandhi and those by a Hitler or a Castro. Don't know much about the form of Govt. Israel has. This much I know, it is a democracy with kibbutzes and all. But about Begin turning 'freedom fighter', thats a pretty common these days of global politics. The same with Arafat, once a terrorist, then goes on to win the Nobel. C'da, wanting and fighting for freedom is a noble thing. The way some try to get it is often ignoble - and that is the problem. --Ram On 8/16/06, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know Pradip Gogoi from Adam, Ram, even though he is a fellow Jokaisukiya from perhaps thirty miles or so from where I grew up. I don't know under what context he said what he did. But regardless of their political creed NO revolutionary could deny Castro his due place in the history of revolutions. Similarly, regardless of the failures ( or successes) of Marxism as a system of governance, no one can deny the enormous influence Marx left in the formation of contemporary human civilization. will there be a Communistic slant in their rule? *** Even if I were to be in a position to answer such questions, I could not have answered such a vague question. What exactly is a communistic slant? Is Israel with its Kibbutzes ( Communes) and absence of private land-ownership and socialist governance 'communistic'; fit to be tarred and feathered with such simplistic labels ? How did Menachem Begin get rehabilitated as a 'freedom-fighter', while he was instrumental to blowing up Britishers and their installations and was once branded by them a 'terrorist'? What kind of cleansing solvent did Begin's followers find to wash off his 'terrorist' label? There is way too much hypocrisy and self-serving piety going on all around us today to give such labels any credence at all Ram. Particularly by people who are informed and are able to reason. c-da At 12:31 PM -0500 8/16/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da Thanks for sharing that with us. Pretty interesting. Gogoi does have the tenacity and passion - one must give him that, even though I necessarily do not see things his way. Its is intriguing that his passion for independence is built upon the ideals of Marx and Castro. The question is, if people like him become leaders of an independent Assam, will there be a Communistic slant in their rule? Just thoughts. --Ram On 8/16/06, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ULFA's Pradip Gogoi in Tehelka:http://www.fromallangles.com/newspapers/country/india/tehelka.com.htm ___assam mailing listassam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
Title: Re: [Assam] From Tehelka Ram: C'da, wanting and fighting for freedom is a noble thing. The way some try to get it is often ignoble - and that is the problem. *** I would not dare hold a candle to your goodness Ram :-). Marxand Castro obviously did have a hugeinfluence on human civilization. So did Hitler. *** Considering your lumping all these three together to mean that they are all the same? Is your desi-hyperbole working overtime Ram :-)? Also, even though Marxism might not be your cup of tea or mine, can you go tell that to Chinese? A nation way worse off than India 50 years back, now has no one going hungry or homeless or without health care, leaving Indian nationalists green with envy, isn't it? Similarly for Castro. He may not be your hero, but Cubans seem to think differently, don't they? Unless of course you know what is best for Cubans :-). This much I know, it is a democracy with kibbutzes and all. *** What does that mean Ram? That them being democratic absolves them of their socialist/communistic sins? Democracy is a TOOL Ram, it is NOT and end unto itself. c-da At 3:00 PM -0500 8/16/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Ouch! C'da, But regardless of their political creed NO revolutionary could deny Castro his due place in the history of revolutions. Similarly, regardless of the failures ( or successes) of Marxism as a system of governance, no one can deny the enormous influence Marx left in the formation of contemporary human civilization Good questions requiring deep thoughts.Marxand Castro obviously did have a hugeinfluence on human civilization. So did Hitler. IMHO, we judge such personalities NOT by the amount of influence they had on civilizations, but by how much good they have done for humanity either thru their teachings or they way they ruled (Cuba). Both Marx and Castro have been absolute failures in that regard. Though Marz never raised a gun, he did manage to incite a number of countries (China, Indo-Chinacomes to mind) who used/misused his doctrines to enslave huge populations for decades. That hopefully is not what those fighting for freedom in Assam want for the people of Assam. There is way too much hypocrisy and self-serving piety going on all around us today to give such labels any credence at all Ram. I agree, but there is a whale lot of difference between people who might swear by a Gandhi and those by a Hitler or a Castro. Don't know much about the form of Govt. Israel has. This much I know, it is a democracy with kibbutzes and all. But about Begin turning 'freedom fighter', thats a pretty common these days of global politics. The same with Arafat, once a terrorist, then goes on to win the Nobel. C'da, wanting and fighting for freedom is a noble thing. The way some try to get it is often ignoble - and that is the problem. --Ram On 8/16/06, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know Pradip Gogoi from Adam, Ram, even though he is a fellow Jokaisukiya from perhaps thirty miles or so from where I grew up. I don't know under what context he said what he did. But regardless of their political creed NO revolutionary could deny Castro his due place in the history of revolutions. Similarly, regardless of the failures ( or successes) of Marxism as a system of governance, no one can deny the enormous influence Marx left in the formation of contemporary human civilization. will there be a Communistic slant in their rule? *** Even if I were to be in a position to answer such questions, I could not have answered such a vague question. What exactly is a communistic slant? Is Israel with its Kibbutzes ( Communes) and absence of private land-ownership and socialist governance 'communistic'; fit to be tarred and feathered with such simplistic labels ? How did Menachem Begin get rehabilitated as a 'freedom-fighter', while he was instrumental to blowing up Britishers and their installations and was once branded by them a 'terrorist'? What kind of cleansing solvent did Begin's followers find to wash off his 'terrorist' label? There is way too much hypocrisy and self-serving piety going on all around us today to give such labels any credence at all Ram. Particularly by people who are informed and are able to reason. c-da At 12:31 PM -0500 8/16/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da Thanks for sharing that with us. Pretty interesting. Gogoi does have the tenacity and passion - one must give him that, even though I necessarily do not see things his way. Its is intriguing that his passion for independence is built upon the ideals of Marx and Castro. The question is, if people like him become leaders of an independent Assam, will there be a Communistic slant in their rule? Just thoughts. --Ram On 8/16/06, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ULFA's Pradip Gogoi in Tehelka: http://www.fromallangles.com/newspapers/country/india/tehelka.com.htm ___ assam mailing list assam
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
I thought that wasn't really Marxism (or for that matter Maoism) that did it in China - it simply was sheer capitalism. Before they started off on this Capitalist route 20 years before India, they were reeling off from yet another one of the Maoist (or is it Marxist) endeavors. Also, even though Marxism might not be your cup of tea or mine, can you go tell that to Chinese? A nation way worse off than India 50 years back, now has no one going hungry or homeless or without health care, leaving Indian nationalists green with envy, isn't it? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
If so, those labels are that much meaningless, aren't they? At 3:14 PM -0700 8/16/06, Rajib Das wrote: I thought that wasn't really Marxism (or for that matter Maoism) that did it in China - it simply was sheer capitalism. Before they started off on this Capitalist route 20 years before India, they were reeling off from yet another one of the Maoist (or is it Marxist) endeavors. Also, even though Marxism might not be your cup of tea or mine, can you go tell that to Chinese? A nation way worse off than India 50 years back, now has no one going hungry or homeless or without health care, leaving Indian nationalists green with envy, isn't it? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
C'da A nation way worse off than India 50 years back, now has no one going hungry or homeless or without health care, leaving Indian nationalists green with envy, isn't it? And that is a plus point for China? Lack of individual freedoms in China (and Cuba) are mandated by the state. Will that be sufficient for Assam - if the GOI were to provide homes, food and healthcare only? *** Considering your lumping all these three together to mean that they are all the same? All I was saying is that Hitler like Castro and Marx did have a huge influence, a negative one, but none the less an influence. *** What does that mean Ram? That them being democratic absolves them of their socialist/communistic sins? Democracy is a TOOL Ram, it is NOT and end unto itself. I did know Israel was Communistic in governance. I would, however, differentiate between socialism and communism. Countries in Scandinavia are socialistic to a degree - doesn't make them communistic. --Ram On 8/16/06, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ram: C'da, wanting and fighting for freedom is a noble thing. The way some try to get it is often ignoble - and that is the problem. *** I would not dare hold a candle to your goodness Ram :-). Marxand Castro obviously did have a hugeinfluence on human civilization. So did Hitler. *** Considering your lumping all these three together to mean that they are all the same? Is your desi-hyperbole working overtime Ram :-)? Also, even though Marxism might not be your cup of tea or mine, can you go tell that to Chinese? A nation way worse off than India 50 years back, now has no one going hungry or homeless or without health care, leaving Indian nationalists green with envy, isn't it? Similarly for Castro. He may not be your hero, but Cubans seem to think differently, don't they? Unless of course you know what is best for Cubans :-). This much I know, it is a democracy with kibbutzes and all. *** What does that mean Ram? That them being democratic absolves them of their socialist/communistic sins? Democracy is a TOOL Ram, it is NOT and end unto itself. c-da At 3:00 PM -0500 8/16/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Ouch! C'da, But regardless of their political creed NO revolutionary could deny Castro his due place in the history of revolutions. Similarly, regardless of the failures ( or successes) of Marxism as a system of governance, no one can deny the enormous influence Marx left in the formation of contemporary human civilization Good questions requiring deep thoughts.Marxand Castro obviously did have a hugeinfluence on human civilization. So did Hitler. IMHO, we judge such personalities NOT by the amount of influence they had on civilizations, but by how much good they have done for humanity either thru their teachings or they way they ruled (Cuba). Both Marx and Castro have been absolute failures in that regard. Though Marz never raised a gun, he did manage to incite a number of countries (China, Indo-Chinacomes to mind) who used/misused his doctrines to enslave huge populations for decades. That hopefully is not what those fighting for freedom in Assam want for the people of Assam. There is way too much hypocrisy and self-serving piety going on all around us today to give such labels any credence at all Ram. I agree, but there is a whale lot of difference between people who might swear by a Gandhi and those by a Hitler or a Castro. Don't know much about the form of Govt. Israel has. This much I know, it is a democracy with kibbutzes and all. But about Begin turning 'freedom fighter', thats a pretty common these days of global politics. The same with Arafat, once a terrorist, then goes on to win the Nobel. C'da, wanting and fighting for freedom is a noble thing. The way some try to get it is often ignoble - and that is the problem. --Ram On 8/16/06, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know Pradip Gogoi from Adam, Ram, even though he is a fellow Jokaisukiya from perhaps thirty miles or so from where I grew up. I don't know under what context he said what he did. But regardless of their political creed NO revolutionary could deny Castro his due place in the history of revolutions. Similarly, regardless of the failures ( or successes) of Marxism as a system of governance, no one can deny the enormous influence Marx left in the formation of contemporary human civilization. will there be a Communistic slant in their rule? *** Even if I were to be in a position to answer such questions, I could not have answered such a vague question. What exactly is a communistic slant? Is Israel with its Kibbutzes ( Communes) and absence of private land-ownership and socialist governance 'communistic'; fit to be tarred and feathered with such simplistic labels ? How did Menachem Begin get rehabilitated as a 'freedom-fighter', while he was instrumental to blowing up Britishers and their installations and was once branded by them a 'terrorist'? What kind of cleansing
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
Yes, I agree completely. Labels of any kind don't amount to much. The Indian political class has only now started to shed labels. Within those, the ones to do so thoroughly were the Indian nationalists however. If the Indian nationalists are green with envy of China, it is great. At least envy might lead to something sustainably productive - as opposed to labeling China's progress as a CIA ploy or some such thing. The questions beneath the labels however are important. It is important to know what would be ULFA's agenda in an independent Assam (and that includes how they will govern, what freedoms would be allowed or disallowed, how will the government be run etc.). Wouldn't we all expect to get those answers to form a complete opinion? And wouldn't we be right, in the absence of any such answers, in determining that this would spell anarchy, no less? And no, the Oracle's (Mike Da) monologue, Main Hoon Na is not enough :-) --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If so, those labels are that much meaningless, aren't they? At 3:14 PM -0700 8/16/06, Rajib Das wrote: I thought that wasn't really Marxism (or for that matter Maoism) that did it in China - it simply was sheer capitalism. Before they started off on this Capitalist route 20 years before India, they were reeling off from yet another one of the Maoist (or is it Marxist) endeavors. Also, even though Marxism might not be your cup of tea or mine, can you go tell that to Chinese? A nation way worse off than India 50 years back, now has no one going hungry or homeless or without health care, leaving Indian nationalists green with envy, isn't it? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
Exactly Rajib. That is why Pradip Gogoi's idealogical infatuation with the likes of Marx and Castro cannot be just set aside. All we have heard so far is that a group of insurgents want freedom at any cost. They won't give the people (that they are supposedly fighting for) a plan, what kind of governance, or even how they would envision to protect the state once it is free. --Ram On 8/16/06, Rajib Das [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I agree completely. Labels of any kind don'tamount to much. The Indian political class has only now started to shed labels. Within those, the ones todo so thoroughly were the Indian nationalists however.If the Indian nationalists are green with envy ofChina, it is great. At least envy might lead to something sustainably productive - as opposed tolabeling China's progress as a CIA ploy or some suchthing.The questions beneath the labels however areimportant.It is important to know what would be ULFA's agenda in an independent Assam (and that includes how they willgovern, what freedoms would be allowed ordisallowed, how will the government be run etc.).Wouldn't we all expect to get those answers to form a complete opinion? And wouldn't we be right, in theabsence of any such answers, in determining that thiswould spell anarchy, no less?And no, the Oracle's (Mike Da) monologue, Main HoonNa is not enough :-) --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If so, those labels are that much meaningless, aren't they? At 3:14 PM -0700 8/16/06, Rajib Das wrote: I thought that wasn't really Marxism (or for that matter Maoism) that did it in China - it simply was sheer capitalism. Before they started off on this Capitalist route 20 years before India, they were reeling off from yet another one of the Maoist (or is it Marxist) endeavors. Also, even though Marxism might not be your cup of tea or mine, can you go tell that to Chinese? A nation way worse off than India 50 years back, now has no one going hungry or homeless or without health care, leaving Indian nationalists green with envy, isn't it? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
Title: Re: [Assam] From Tehelka I did know Israel was Communistic in governance. I would, however, differentiate between socialism and communism. Countries in Scandinavia are socialistic to a degree - doesn't make them communistic. *** I am glad you have the ability to split hairs Ram :-). I am however quite curious about the fine distinctions between living in a Kibbutz, in a communal arrangement, and the unacceptability of 'communistic'. Can you help ? And that is a plus point for China? *** Is it a minus Ram? How would you describe it, had your parents been landless, indentured peasants, without a shelter to call it home and if the STATE came to your aid by ensuring you had food, shelter and health care? I am sure a lot of peple woud like to hear :-). c-da At 6:20 PM -0500 8/16/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da A nation way worse off than India 50 years back, now has no one going hungry or homeless or without health care, leaving Indian nationalists green with envy, isn't it? And that is a plus point for China? Lack of individual freedoms in China (and Cuba) are mandated by the state. Will that be sufficient for Assam - if the GOI were to provide homes, food and healthcare only? *** Considering your lumping all these three together to mean that they are all the same? All I was saying is that Hitler like Castro and Marx did have a huge influence, a negative one, but none the less an influence. *** What does that mean Ram? That them being democratic absolves them of their socialist/communistic sins? Democracy is a TOOL Ram, it is NOT and end unto itself. I did know Israel was Communistic in governance. I would, however, differentiate between socialism and communism. Countries in Scandinavia are socialistic to a degree - doesn't make them communistic. --Ram On 8/16/06, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ram: C'da, wanting and fighting for freedom is a noble thing. The way some try to get it is often ignoble - and that is the problem. *** I would not dare hold a candle to your goodness Ram :-). Marxand Castro obviously did have a hugeinfluence on human civilization. So did Hitler. *** Considering your lumping all these three together to mean that they are all the same? Is your desi-hyperbole working overtime Ram :-)? Also, even though Marxism might not be your cup of tea or mine, can you go tell that to Chinese? A nation way worse off than India 50 years back, now has no one going hungry or homeless or without health care, leaving Indian nationalists green with envy, isn't it? Similarly for Castro. He may not be your hero, but Cubans seem to think differently, don't they? Unless of course you know what is best for Cubans :-). This much I know, it is a democracy with kibbutzes and all. *** What does that mean Ram? That them being democratic absolves them of their socialist/communistic sins? Democracy is a TOOL Ram, it is NOT and end unto itself. c-da At 3:00 PM -0500 8/16/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Ouch! C'da, But regardless of their political creed NO revolutionary could deny Castro his due place in the history of revolutions. Similarly, regardless of the failures ( or successes) of Marxism as a system of governance, no one can deny the enormous influence Marx left in the formation of contemporary human civilization Good questions requiring deep thoughts.Marxand Castro obviously did have a hugeinfluence on human civilization. So did Hitler. IMHO, we judge such personalities NOT by the amount of influence they had on civilizations, but by how much good they have done for humanity either thru their teachings or they way they ruled (Cuba). Both Marx and Castro have been absolute failures in that regard. Though Marz never raised a gun, he did manage to incite a number of countries (China, Indo-Chinacomes to mind) who used/misused his doctrines to enslave huge populations for decades. That hopefully is not what those fighting for freedom in Assam want for the people of Assam. There is way too much hypocrisy and self-serving piety going on all around us today to give such labels any credence at all Ram. I agree, but there is a whale lot of difference between people who might swear by a Gandhi and those by a Hitler or a Castro. Don't know much about the form of Govt. Israel has. This much I know, it is a democracy with kibbutzes and all. But about Begin turning 'freedom fighter', thats a pretty common these days of global politics. The same with Arafat, once a terrorist, then goes on to win the Nobel. C'da, wanting and fighting for freedom is a noble thing. The way some try to get it is often ignoble - and that is the problem. --Ram On 8/16/06, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know Pradip Gogoi from Adam, Ram, even though he is a fellow Jokaisukiya from perhaps thirty miles or so from where I grew up. I don't know under what context he said what he did. But regardless of their political
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
It is important to know what would be ULFA's agenda in an independent Assam (and that includes how they will govern, what freedoms would be allowed or disallowed, how will the government be run etc.). Wouldn't we all expect to get those answers to form a complete opinion? And wouldn't we be right, in the absence of any such answers, in determining that this would spell anarchy, no less? *** That is a fair question. The answer to it probably have been easy to get, had Assam's intelligentsia and the establishment showed any inclination, to provide even a conditional support to ULFA's goals for Assam. Support conditioned on the RIGHT form of a system of governance; truly democratic, secular and so forth. The ones who have supported ULFA steadfastly all along have been those who are disenfranchised, at the bottom of Assam society, and a few of the rare breed from the ranks of the middle and upper-class, highly educated, informed and with the intestinal fortitude to stand and fight for what is right. Expectations for answers from those who would not give ULFA an inch, very obviously, would be completely ignored. Wouldn't you, if you were in ULFA's shoes? At 4:28 PM -0700 8/16/06, Rajib Das wrote: Yes, I agree completely. Labels of any kind don't amount to much. The Indian political class has only now started to shed labels. Within those, the ones to do so thoroughly were the Indian nationalists however. If the Indian nationalists are green with envy of China, it is great. At least envy might lead to something sustainably productive - as opposed to labeling China's progress as a CIA ploy or some such thing. The questions beneath the labels however are important. It is important to know what would be ULFA's agenda in an independent Assam (and that includes how they will govern, what freedoms would be allowed or disallowed, how will the government be run etc.). Wouldn't we all expect to get those answers to form a complete opinion? And wouldn't we be right, in the absence of any such answers, in determining that this would spell anarchy, no less? And no, the Oracle's (Mike Da) monologue, Main Hoon Na is not enough :-) --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If so, those labels are that much meaningless, aren't they? At 3:14 PM -0700 8/16/06, Rajib Das wrote: I thought that wasn't really Marxism (or for that matter Maoism) that did it in China - it simply was sheer capitalism. Before they started off on this Capitalist route 20 years before India, they were reeling off from yet another one of the Maoist (or is it Marxist) endeavors. Also, even though Marxism might not be your cup of tea or mine, can you go tell that to Chinese? A nation way worse off than India 50 years back, now has no one going hungry or homeless or without health care, leaving Indian nationalists green with envy, isn't it? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka . Why stop only at that?Read this too.
Qestions posed to Jairam Ramesh How would you compare India with China as an FDI destination ? Ans: China gets 20 times the FDI that India gets. The Chinese invest more and export more. Only in software exports?? is India ahead? of China. In all other areas, the Chinese have outstripped Indians. China is a super economic power, while India is a middle ranking one.But on a scale of one to 10(linear/logarithmic/?romantic?) if one was to look at political democracy, India would get 10 and China one. In terms of social diversity, India would get eight(Really, then why OBC Muslimphobia?) and China one. .In terms of economic development, India would get three and China eight. ( All supercilious without deep knowledge and studymm) Jairam Ramesh IIT Bbay Mech 75. Andhra Pradesh MP. Blue eyed boy of Soniafast-smooth talking Congress Seretary Is key member of National Advisory Council(with Sonia Chairperson) Defines himself as Economics Think Tank of Congress Party. Sometimes heard of as Min. Commerce, GOI (Then -What is Kamal Nath?) Toured Assam immediately after Tarun Gogoi inauguration and dropped loads of BS on : · Assam Tea how Delhi is going to help out-- · Gas Cracker · Import of Gas from Myanmar for Assam Gas Cracker!!! · NEs ( never even by mistake named Assam) Trade outlets- with Neighbouring Contries-Which?How/what? --all the time feigning-everything is normal in NE- and that under Congress and JR (himself) India will raise Assam out of the shit it is inso keep voting INC -your only hope. Many got carried away. From: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: "Ram Sarangapani" [EMAIL PROTECTED]CC: assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] From TehelkaDate: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 20:20:26 -0500 I did know Israel was Communistic in governance. I would, however, differentiate between socialism and communism. Countries in Scandinavia are socialistic to a degree - doesn't make them communistic. *** I am glad you have the ability to split hairs Ram :-). I am however quite curious about the fine distinctions between living in a Kibbutz, in a communal arrangement, and the unacceptability of 'communistic'. Can you help ? And that is a plus point for China? *** Is it a minus Ram? How would you describe it, had your parents been landless, indentured peasants, without a shelter to call it home and if the STATE came to your aid by ensuring you had food, shelter and health care? I am sure a lot of peple woud like to hear :-). c-da At 6:20 PM -0500 8/16/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da A nation way worse off than India 50 years back, now has no one going hungry or homeless or without health care, leaving Indian nationalists green with envy, isn't it? And that is a plus point for China? Lack of individual freedoms in China (and Cuba) are mandated by the state. Will that be sufficient for Assam - if the GOI were to provide homes, food and healthcare only? *** Considering your lumping all these three together to mean that they are all the same? All I was saying is that Hitler like Castro and Marx did have a huge influence, a negative one, but none the less an influence. *** What does that mean Ram? That them being democratic absolves them of their socialist/communistic sins? Democracy is a TOOL Ram, it is NOT and end unto itself. I did know Israel was Communistic in governance. I would, however, differentiate between socialism and communism. Countries in Scandinavia are socialistic to a degree - doesn't make them communistic. --Ram On 8/16/06, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ram: C'da, wanting and fighting for freedom is a noble thing. The way some try to get it is often ignoble - and that is the problem. *** I would not dare hold a candle to your goodness Ram :-). Marxand Castro obviously did have a hugeinfluence on human civilization. So did Hitler. *** Considering your lumping all these three together to mean that they are all the same? Is your desi-hyperbole working overtime Ram :-)? Also, even though Marxism might not be your cup of tea or mine, can you go tell that to Chinese? A nation way worse off than India 50 years back, now has no one going hungry or homeless or without health care, leaving Indian nationalists green with envy, isn't it? Similarly for Castro. He may not be your hero, but Cubans seem to think differently, don't they? Unless of course you know what is best for Cubans :-). This much I know, it is a democracy with kibbutzes and all. *** What does that mean Ram? That them being democratic absolves them of their socialist/communistic sins? Democracy is a TOOL Ram, it is NOT and end unto itself. c-da At 3:00 PM -0500 8/16/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Ouch! C'da, But regardless of their political creed NO revolutionary could deny Castro his due place in the history of revolutions. Similarly, regardless of the failures ( or successes) of Marxism as a system of governance, no one can deny the enormous influence Marx left in the formation of
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
Title: Re: [Assam] From Tehelka Ram: Why don't you guys put your money where your mouths are and tell ULFA that you might support their cause of Assam's independence, provided: A: B: C; D: You fill in the gaps. If you do that and ULFA still ignores the likes of you, then I would go along with your assessment. Failing which, it is xaap hoiw khwtisa aaru bez hoiw jaarisa, know what I mean :-)? c-da At 6:49 PM -0500 8/16/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Exactly Rajib. That is why Pradip Gogoi's idealogical infatuation with the likes of Marx and Castro cannot be just set aside. All we have heard so far is that a group of insurgents want freedom at any cost. They won't give the people (that they are supposedly fighting for) a plan, what kind of governance, or even how they would envision to protect the state once it is free. --Ram On 8/16/06, Rajib Das [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I agree completely. Labels of any kind don't amount to much. The Indian political class has only now started to shed labels. Within those, the ones to do so thoroughly were the Indian nationalists however. If the Indian nationalists are green with envy of China, it is great. At least envy might lead to something sustainably productive - as opposed to labeling China's progress as a CIA ploy or some such thing. The questions beneath the labels however are important. It is important to know what would be ULFA's agenda in an independent Assam (and that includes how they will govern, what freedoms would be allowed or disallowed, how will the government be run etc.). Wouldn't we all expect to get those answers to form a complete opinion? And wouldn't we be right, in the absence of any such answers, in determining that this would spell anarchy, no less? And no, the Oracle's (Mike Da) monologue, Main Hoon Na is not enough :-) --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If so, those labels are that much meaningless, aren't they? At 3:14 PM -0700 8/16/06, Rajib Das wrote: I thought that wasn't really Marxism (or for that matter Maoism) that did it in China - it simply was sheer capitalism. Before they started off on this Capitalist route 20 years before India, they were reeling off from yet another one of the Maoist (or is it Marxist) endeavors. Also, even though Marxism might not be your cup of tea or mine, can you go tell that to Chinese? A nation way worse off than India 50 years back, now has no one going hungry or homeless or without health care, leaving Indian nationalists green with envy, isn't it? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
Ram: Why don't you guys put your money where your mouths are and tell ULFA that you might support their cause of Assam's independence, provided: A: B: C; D: You fill in the gaps. If you do that and ULFA still ignores the likes of you, then I would go along with your assessment. Failing which, it is "xaap hoiw khwtisa aaru bez hoiw jaarisa", know what I mean :-)? c-da Last call to Doubting Thomases- any better ideas? You know how to reach me. You bet on my presenting your valued ideas to where it should. Don't whine any more. You had the last call. mm All we have heard so far is that a group of insurgents want freedom at any cost. They won't give the people (that they are supposedly fighting for) a plan, what kind of governance, or even how they would envision to protect the state once it is free. --Ram On 8/16/06, Rajib Das [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I agree completely. Labels of any kind don'tamount to much. The Indian political class has onlynow started to shed labels. Within those, the ones todo so thoroughly were the Indian nationalists however.If the Indian nationalists are green with envy ofChina, it is great. At least envy might lead tosomething sustainably productive - as opposed tolabeling China's progress as a CIA ploy or some suchthing.The questions beneath the labels however areimportant.It is important to know what would be ULFA's agenda inan independent Assam (and that includes how they willgovern, what "freedoms" would be allowed ordisallowed, how will the government be run etc.).Wouldn't we all expect to get those answers to form acomplete opinion? And wouldn't we be right, in theabsence of any such answers, in determining that thiswould spell anarchy, no less?And no, the Oracle's (Mike Da) monologue, "Main HoonNa" is not enough :-)--- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If so, those labels are that much meaningless, aren't they? At 3:14 PM -0700 8/16/06, Rajib Das wrote: I thought that wasn't really Marxism (or for that matter Maoism) that did it in China - it simply was sheer capitalism. Before they started off on this Capitalist route 20 years before India, they were reeling off from yet another one of the Maoist (or is it Marxist) endeavors. Also, even though Marxism might not be your cup of tea or mine, can you go tell that to Chinese? A nation way worse off than India 50 years back, now has no one going hungry or homeless or without health care, leaving Indian nationalists green with envy, isn't it?__ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection aroundhttp://mail.yahoo.com ___assam mailing listassam@assamnet.orghttp://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] from Tehelka
http://www.fromallangles.com/newspapers/country/india/tehelka.com.htm A decade since our economy was officially creaked open to the influences of the market in the name of globalisation. Required medicine, the nation was told, swallow or perish. What's that done for those at the lower end of the spiral? We begin a fortnightly exploration. First stop: Vidarbha's famished fields By Dilip D' Souza My first visit to Vidarbha was in late February. My second was in late April. In the two months in between, the count rose by 130-plus; over two a day. Something is happening in those sun-drenched cotton fields that the rest of us have not comprehended yet, and it is happening at an alarming rate. Every journalist interested in this issue gets and quotes figures from the Vidarbha Jan Andolan Samiti (vjas) - who have been tracking farmer suicides for a long time - and here's what those figures look like, two months apart. February 24, 328 dead. April 22, 462 dead. These are running counts: those many farmers dead, at their own hands, since June last year. When you talk to people in Vidarbha about this phenomenon, you get a range of reactions. A rough traverse of the spectrum: three wealthy farmers in Amaravati said it was, essentially, a hoax. A journalist in Akola said there were certainly suicides happening, but the whole thing was exaggerated by a media focus which reads rural crisis into every suicide of a farmer, for whatever reason. A cotton buyer in Amaravati said it was real, but it had to do with the laziness of Vidarbha's farmers. A small businessman in Barshi-Takli was very concerned, even taking us to homes where deaths had happened that were not on the vjas list. A journalist in Nagpur told us the rural crisis in Vidarbha is deep and unprecedented, and with current policies as they are, he is profoundly pessimistic about any turnaround. On one thing, everyone agrees: farmers are in debt, and debt is a factor in how they go about their lives. Or deaths. And then there's the reaction we got in Dadham, not far from Akola. There, a gathering of village men sit us down in the village panchayat building and tell us a story. A true story. A story of blood and terror that, nevertheless, they are visibly proud of. A story of a lynching. A gathering ... In his stirring novel A Gathering of Old Men, Ernest Gaines writes of a small Louisiana town in the 1970s, where a hated white man is murdered. When the Sheriff turns up to investigate, he finds 18 old black gents at the murder spot, each holding a gun and an empty shell similar to the one used to kill. The Sheriff is bewildered: every one of the 18 claims to have killed the man. (In fact, each chapter in the book is a first person account by one of the old men, amounting to a series of confessions). Faced with this, how do you build a case? Something similar in Dadham, not far from Akola. Bandu Wakhare was a moneylender in Akola. He was a familiar figure in Dadham, because he was always willing to lend money at extortionate rates (10 percent a week, said the men in the panchayat office), and because he regularly showed up in the village with a thug accomplice to demand payments from his debtors. They would try to pay him batch mein - in batch, meaning in installments - but it was never good enough for Wakhare. Why did Dadham's small farmers borrow from this creep? In general, debt is a normal thing in these parts - you borrow, you pay back when your crop goes to market. But with poor harvests and an end to the government's fixed purchase price regime over the last couple of years, paying back loans is hard. Many of these men were already defaulters on loans from banks, which meant they could get no more money that way. With no other way to borrow, they had to turn to a man like Wakhare, and put up with his tyranny. Premchand Pandurang Kule, 22-year-old and married with a one-year-old son, was one such client. He took over two acres of farmland just outside Dadham from his father, a leprosy patient who could no longer work in the fields. Last year, he borrowed Rs 2, 000 - yes, two thousand rupees - from Wakhare to buy farming supplies. Unable to repay quickly, he became a target of Wakhare's demands, and lived in constant fear of being beaten up. One day in April 2005, he watched Wakhare and goon thrash a young man he knew. Frightened out of his wits, he ran off to a nearby patch of jungle and swallowed rat poison. He was found dead on the road. Aware of the spectre that had haunted Kule and driven him to this, the villagers complained to the police about Wakhare, and even filed a case. The enraged moneylender turned up in Dadham, threatening to finish the people who had filed the case. He went to a field belonging to a cousin of Kule's, demanding his money. Three people were working in the field, two of whom were women. Wakhare told the man and the older woman to
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
It is pitiful . Antiquated systems as mentioned in the article. I recall we had a discussion about a newsreport of this nature regarding Assam's asylums as well.UmeshChan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Savaging the civilised? 'madman' set freeFor Jagdamba Dubey, life begins at 70. Putting asylum 'hospitality' under the scanner, a Jaunpur judge lets him out on bail after 39 years of languishing in the Varanasi mental homeBy Suman GuptaVaranasiBent, And Broken: Jagdamba Dubey finally walks freePhotos Ravi SrivastavaSince two years after Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru's death, the high walls of an asylum comprised the world of 70-year-old Jagdamba Dubey. After 39 years of gruelling confinement and complete isolation, Dubey stepped out of the Varanasi asylum for the first time since 1967, courtesy orders from the district and sessions judge of Jaunpur to produce him. He was happy, humming in joy.The Supreme Court verdict in the Jagjivan Ram Yadav case comes as a wake-up call for asylums in Varanasi. Yadav, detained without trial for 38 years, was freed on bail recently in UP. The immediate beneficiary of the precedent turns out to be a man who's languished in the same state for a year longer than Yadav.It's tale of grave injustice done to a poor man. Hailing from Nizamuddinpur in Jaunpur district of UP, Dubey has spent a lifetime shuttling between jail and asylum in Varanasi. He is almost oblivious of his past; his memory has dimmed with time. References to the past elicit little response. Asked if he wants to go home and get back to tilling the land, Dubey's prompt reply was "Why not?" The only credible connect to his past are official records and his elder brother Tilakdhari.On March 4, 1966, Dubey hit neighbour Sitaram with a spade on the head following a dispute. Sitaram succumbed to injury four days later. A chargesheet was promptly filed within a month and Dubey jailed. On December 28, 1967, he was transferred to the asylum in Varanasi from jail after being adjudged to be in possession of an unstable mind, says his official record.Dubious? Dubey's home for 39 yearsThe Varanasi asylum is a 200-year-old institution with treatment just as antiquated. There are no clinical psychiatrists or counsellors. No relatives are allowed inRP Tripathi, the district and sessions judge of Jaunpur, sought a report on Dubey's mental condition from the Varanasi asylum superintendent and also set up a medical board to examine him. The court also summoned Dubey's elder brother Tilakdhari. He however refused to take Dubey out on bail, maintaining that he was mentally unfit. Ironically, the very mention of Tilakdhari brings cheer to Dubey's face.The asylum in Varanasi is spread over 27 acres and was built 200 hundred years ago. The problem is, their methods of treatment are also as antiquated. "New developments in this field prohibit isolation. That is just not the case here. The asylum houses 350 inmates, but there are only two doctors here. "Apart from the two doctors, there are no clinical psychiatrists or counsellors," bk Bhargava, the superintendent here, says.A five-member committee under the Varanasi district judge was set up to look into the condition of the asylum. "This is probably the only set of outsiders who have been allowed in the asylum for a long time," says an employee. Not even relatives are allowed in. "The patient is escorted to a meeting room and allowed to meet the visitor for an allotted time. The relative usually pays a nominal amount to the caretaker to be kind to the patient. This is the standard practice here," reveals a clerk."The authorities do not allow any ngo to work in here," he adds, "so the outside world practically has no way to ascertain the condition of inmates." A specialist who had been posted in the asylum in the past says, "There are doctors and ward boys. That's it. How can you run a hospital of this scale without nurses," he wonders. One wonders with conditions like these, sanity would be at a premium.Apr 01 , 2006___assam mailing listassam@assamnet.orghttp://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.orgUmesh Sharma5121 Lackawanna STCollege Park, MD 20740 1-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone]Ed.M. - International Education PolicyHarvard Graduate School of Education,Harvard University,Class of 2005 Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] From Tehelka
Savaging the civilised? 'madman' set free For Jagdamba Dubey, life begins at 70. Putting asylum 'hospitality' under the scanner, a Jaunpur judge lets him out on bail after 39 years of languishing in the Varanasi mental home By Suman Gupta Varanasi Bent, And Broken: Jagdamba Dubey finally walks free Photos Ravi Srivastava Since two years after Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru's death, the high walls of an asylum comprised the world of 70-year-old Jagdamba Dubey. After 39 years of gruelling confinement and complete isolation, Dubey stepped out of the Varanasi asylum for the first time since 1967, courtesy orders from the district and sessions judge of Jaunpur to produce him. He was happy, humming in joy. The Supreme Court verdict in the Jagjivan Ram Yadav case comes as a wake-up call for asylums in Varanasi. Yadav, detained without trial for 38 years, was freed on bail recently in UP. The immediate beneficiary of the precedent turns out to be a man who's languished in the same state for a year longer than Yadav. It's tale of grave injustice done to a poor man. Hailing from Nizamuddinpur in Jaunpur district of UP, Dubey has spent a lifetime shuttling between jail and asylum in Varanasi. He is almost oblivious of his past; his memory has dimmed with time. References to the past elicit little response. Asked if he wants to go home and get back to tilling the land, Dubey's prompt reply was Why not? The only credible connect to his past are official records and his elder brother Tilakdhari. On March 4, 1966, Dubey hit neighbour Sitaram with a spade on the head following a dispute. Sitaram succumbed to injury four days later. A chargesheet was promptly filed within a month and Dubey jailed. On December 28, 1967, he was transferred to the asylum in Varanasi from jail after being adjudged to be in possession of an unstable mind, says his official record. Dubious? Dubey's home for 39 years The Varanasi asylum is a 200-year-old institution with treatment just as antiquated. There are no clinical psychiatrists or counsellors. No relatives are allowed in RP Tripathi, the district and sessions judge of Jaunpur, sought a report on Dubey's mental condition from the Varanasi asylum superintendent and also set up a medical board to examine him. The court also summoned Dubey's elder brother Tilakdhari. He however refused to take Dubey out on bail, maintaining that he was mentally unfit. Ironically, the very mention of Tilakdhari brings cheer to Dubey's face. The asylum in Varanasi is spread over 27 acres and was built 200 hundred years ago. The problem is, their methods of treatment are also as antiquated. New developments in this field prohibit isolation. That is just not the case here. The asylum houses 350 inmates, but there are only two doctors here. Apart from the two doctors, there are no clinical psychiatrists or counsellors, bk Bhargava, the superintendent here, says. A five-member committee under the Varanasi district judge was set up to look into the condition of the asylum. This is probably the only set of outsiders who have been allowed in the asylum for a long time, says an employee. Not even relatives are allowed in. The patient is escorted to a meeting room and allowed to meet the visitor for an allotted time. The relative usually pays a nominal amount to the caretaker to be kind to the patient. This is the standard practice here, reveals a clerk. The authorities do not allow any ngo to work in here, he adds, so the outside world practically has no way to ascertain the condition of inmates. A specialist who had been posted in the asylum in the past says, There are doctors and ward boys. That's it. How can you run a hospital of this scale without nurses, he wonders. One wonders with conditions like these, sanity would be at a premium. Apr 01 , 2006 ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
Can I survive with bartering my brain for Rou mas and Johasaulin assam? Rowumaas is now imported from Andhra Zoha is rare - we buy Basmati! From:Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:mc mahant [EMAIL PROTECTED]CC:assam@assamnet.orgSubject:Re: [Assam] From TehelkaDate:Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:18:56 -0800 (PST) I'd like to dance naked at Northbrook gate in Guwahati tomorrow. Do you think I can do it without getting arrested? And tell me why not, if not. I don't want to use any currency either. Can I survive with bartering my brain for Rou mas and Johasaulin assam? Dilip mc mahant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: "System" is Faulty all over. We want back the system where there Was no Lawyer, Judge( Demigod?),Lockup (Which has a hard floor and an unclean hole going nowhere),No Lawbook, No Jail, No Hangman. If the system worked for last million years before East India Company arrived it can be remade to work in 2007++ mm From: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED],assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] From TehelkaDate: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 21:19:47 -0600 U, I was afraid your concept of a 'justice system' was seriously faulty. That is why I asked for an explanation of your assertion that the 'system' is not faulty. And you validated my fear. It IS very faulty! If you look up Webster's English Dictionary, it will tell you that a 'system' is 'an orderly, interconnected, complex arrangement of parts'. Typically a justice system would be much more than a judge as you perceived it to be. It would include the laws, investigative apparatus ( the police, CBI etc.). a prosecuting apparatus ( in the US it is the District Attorney's or the US Attorney's office), the court system ( lawyers, clerks, sherriff's office, magistrate etc.) , the judge and a jury system ( in the USA that is --I am not sure India has a jury system) and the penal ,system ( jails, prisons, halfway-houses, work-release programs, parole system, etc.) I will tell you a bit more about it later. At the moment I am falling asleep on the key-board. Good night all. cm At 12:40 AM + 3/1/06, umesh sharma wrote: I meant that the judge will decide a case based on the evidence presented. If no witnesses come forth - or later "trun hostile" under pressure from the other party -- it is the police which is to be blames which cannot protect citizens from thugs. Courts come in the picture later. Thats what I thought. UmeshChan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it is not the justice system - the law and order system which is responsible.*** Can you explain what you assert here and why you do so, Umesh?cmAt 3:45 AM + 2/28/06, umesh sharma wrote:I have been following this story like many similar ones - it is notthe justice system - the law and order system which is responsible.If all the witnesses refuse to testify - thanks to threats, bribes and trudgery of long visits to courts for years - then you cannotblame the judges as having biased judgement.It is similar to mafia rule where witnesses "turn hostile." Ithappened famously in Parliamentarian DP Yadav's sons alleged killingof their sister's lover -after he danced "opnely' with her on hisbirthday near Delhi. The deceased was son of a senior IAS official.Whats the cure. Those who have been in US for long can perhapsenlighten how the mafia bosses were rif off.Umesh Umesh Sharma5121 Lackawanna STCollege Park, MD 207401-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone]Ed.M. - International Education PolicyHarvard Graduate School of Education,Harvard University,Class of 2005 To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. ___assam mailing listassam@assamnet.orghttp://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___assam mailing listassam@assamnet.orghttp://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
dilip-da,There are many men who roam about naked in India - even in winters - most are very able bodied young men - but are lefft alone as they behave like zombies and leave everyone else alone . People think they are mad. However, if they started staring at girls or showing some reaction to them - their game might be up:)UmeshDilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I'd like to dance naked at Northbrook gate in Guwahati tomorrow. Do you think I can do it without getting arrested? And tell me why not, if not.I don't want to use any currency either. Can I survive with bartering my brain for Rou mas and Johasaulin assam?Dilip mc mahant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: "System" is Faulty all over. We want back the system where there Was no Lawyer, Judge( Demigod?),Lockup (Which has a hard floor and an unclean hole going nowhere),No Lawbook, No Jail, No Hangman. If the system worked for last million years before East India Company arrived it can be remade to work in 2007++ mm From: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED],assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] From TehelkaDate: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 21:19:47 -0600U, I was afraid your concept of a 'justice system' was seriously faulty. That is why I asked for an explanation of your assertion that the 'system' is not faulty. And you validated my fear. It IS very faulty!If you look up Webster's English Dictionary, it will tell you that a 'system' is 'an orderly, interconnected, complex arrangement of parts'.Typically a justice system would be much more than a judge as you perceived it to be. It would include the laws, investigative apparatus ( the police, CBI etc.). a prosecuting apparatus ( in the US it is the District Attorney's or the US Attorney's office), the court system ( lawyers, clerks, sherriff's office, magistrate etc.) , the judge and a jury system ( in the USA that is --I am not sure India has a jury system) and the penal ,system ( jails, prisons, halfway-houses, work-release programs, parole system, etc.) I will tell you a bit more about it later. At the moment I am falling asleep on the key-board. Good night all.cmAt 12:40 AM + 3/1/06, umesh sharma wrote: I meant that the judge will decide a case based on the evidence presented. If no witnesses come forth - or later "trun hostile" under pressure from the other party -- it is the police which is to be blames which cannot protect citizens from thugs. Courts come in the picture later. Thats what I thought.UmeshChan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it is not the justice system - the law and order system which is responsible.*** Can you explain what you assert here and why you do so, Umesh?cmAt 3:45 AM + 2/28/06, umesh sharma wrote:I have been following this story like many similar ones - it is notthe justice system - the law and order system which is responsible.If all the witnesses refuse to testify - thanks to threats, bribes and trudgery of long visits to courts for years - then you cannotblame the judges as having biased judgement.It is similar to mafia rule where witnesses "turn hostile." Ithappened famously in Parliamentarian DP Yadav's sons alleged killingof their sister's lover -after he danced "opnely' with her on hisbirthday near Delhi. The deceased was son of a senior IAS official.Whats the cure. Those who have been in US for long can perhapsenlighten how the mafia bosses were rif off.Umesh Umesh Sharma5121 Lackawanna STCollege Park, MD 207401-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone]Ed.M. - International Education PolicyHarvard Graduate School of Education,Harvard University,Class of 2005To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre.___assam mailing listassam@assamnet.orghttp://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___assam mailing listassam@assamnet.orghttp://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org___assam mailing listassam@assamnet.orghttp://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.orgUmesh Sharma5121 Lackawanna STCollege Park, MD 20740 1-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone]Ed.M. - International Education PolicyHarvard Graduate School of Education,Harvard University,Class of 2005 To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre.___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
"System" is Faulty all over. We want back the system where there Was no Lawyer, Judge( Demigod?),Lockup (Which has a hard floor and an unclean hole going nowhere),No Lawbook, No Jail, No Hangman. If the system worked for last million years before East India Company arrived it can be remade to work in 2007++ mm From: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED],assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] From TehelkaDate: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 21:19:47 -0600 U, I was afraid your concept of a 'justice system' was seriously faulty. That is why I asked for an explanation of your assertion that the 'system' is not faulty. And you validated my fear. It IS very faulty! If you look up Webster's English Dictionary, it will tell you that a 'system' is 'an orderly, interconnected, complex arrangement of parts'. Typically a justice system would be much more than a judge as you perceived it to be. It would include the laws, investigative apparatus ( the police, CBI etc.). a prosecuting apparatus ( in the US it is the District Attorney's or the US Attorney's office), the court system ( lawyers, clerks, sherriff's office, magistrate etc.) , the judge and a jury system ( in the USA that is --I am not sure India has a jury system) and the penal ,system ( jails, prisons, halfway-houses, work-release programs, parole system, etc.) I will tell you a bit more about it later. At the moment I am falling asleep on the key-board. Good night all. cm At 12:40 AM + 3/1/06, umesh sharma wrote: I meant that the judge will decide a case based on the evidence presented. If no witnesses come forth - or later "trun hostile" under pressure from the other party -- it is the police which is to be blames which cannot protect citizens from thugs. Courts come in the picture later. Thats what I thought. UmeshChan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it is not the justice system - the law and order system which is responsible.*** Can you explain what you assert here and why you do so, Umesh?cmAt 3:45 AM + 2/28/06, umesh sharma wrote:I have been following this story like many similar ones - it is notthe justice system - the law and order system which is responsible.If all the witnesses refuse to testify - thanks to threats, bribes and trudgery of long visits to courts for years - then you cannotblame the judges as having biased judgement.It is similar to mafia rule where witnesses "turn hostile." Ithappened famously in Parliamentarian DP Yadav's sons alleged killingof their sister's lover -after he danced "opnely' with her on hisbirthday near Delhi. The deceased was son of a senior IAS official.Whats the cure. Those who have been in US for long can perhapsenlighten how the mafia bosses were rif off.Umesh Umesh Sharma5121 Lackawanna STCollege Park, MD 207401-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone]Ed.M. - International Education PolicyHarvard Graduate School of Education,Harvard University,Class of 2005 To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. ___assam mailing listassam@assamnet.orghttp://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
Title: Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
At 7:38 AM +0530 3/2/06, mc mahant wrote:
System is Faulty all
over.
We want back the system where there Was
no Lawyer, Judge( Demigod?),Lockup (Which has a hard floor and an
unclean hole going nowhere),No Lawbook, No Jail, No Hangman.
If the system worked for last million
years before East India Company arrived it can be remade to work in
2007++
mm
*** That is way too simplistic. Things have changed over the
centuries. What might have worked fine three hundred years back, would
not necessarily work today, because the variables, the factors that
impact society's well-being, have changed dramatically. If a public
official steals from the public coffers, and there is no way to hold
her accountable, then we get what we have in place today in
desi-demokrasy. It will be the same with any other form of governance.
Anarchy is NOT a solution, but an enlightened system with functioning
institutions of state is. NO SYSTEM is perfect. For that matter
NOTHING IS perfect. Pursuit of perfection is not the issue, but a
system that can constantly be challenged and improved over time to
respond to the needs of society as it continues to evolve, IS. That is
where Indian style governance has shown its abject failure. But just
because Indian style governance does not work, we cannot assume that
ALL governmental systems are bad, or unhelpful.
From: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Chan Mahanta
[EMAIL PROTECTED],assam@assamnet.org
Subject: Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 21:19:47 -0600
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li
{padding-top:0;padding-bottom:0;}
U,
I was afraid your concept of a 'justice system' was
seriously faulty. That is why I asked for an explanation of your
assertion that the 'system' is not faulty. And you validated my fear.
It IS very faulty!
If you look up Webster's English Dictionary, it will tell
you that a 'system' is 'an orderly, interconnected, complex
arrangement of parts'.
Typically a justice system would be much more than a judge
as you perceived it to be. It would include the laws,
investigative apparatus ( the police, CBI etc.). a prosecuting
apparatus ( in the US it is the District Attorney's or the US
Attorney's office), the court system ( lawyers, clerks, sherriff's
office, magistrate etc.) , the judge and a jury system ( in the USA
that is --I am not sure India has a jury system) and the penal ,system
( jails, prisons, halfway-houses, work-release programs, parole
system, etc.)
I will tell you a bit more about it later. At the moment I
am falling asleep on the key-board. Good night all.
cm
At 12:40 AM + 3/1/06, umesh sharma wrote:
I meant that the judge will decide a case based on the
evidence presented. If no witnesses come forth - or later trun
hostile under pressure from the other party -- it is the
police which is to be blames which cannot protect citizens from thugs.
Courts come in the picture later. Thats what I thought.
Umesh
Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
it is not the justice system - the law and order system which is
responsible.
*** Can you explain what you assert here and why you do so, Umesh?
cm
At 3:45 AM + 2/28/06, umesh sharma wrote:
I have been following this story like many similar ones - it is
not
the justice system - the law and order system which is
responsible.
If all the witnesses refuse to testify - thanks to threats,
bribes and trudgery of long visits to courts for years - then
you cannot
blame the judges as having biased judgement.
It is similar to mafia rule where witnesses turn hostile.
It
happened famously in Parliamentarian DP Yadav's sons alleged
killing
of their sister's lover -after he danced opnely' with her on
his
birthday near Delhi. The deceased was son of a senior IAS
official.
Whats the cure. Those who have been in US for long can perhaps
enlighten how the mafia bosses were rif off.
Umesh
Umesh Sharma
5121 Lackawanna ST
College Park, MD 20740
1-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone]
Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005
To help you stay safe and
secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre.
___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
Good to hear from you after a very long time Deep. Hope things are going well for you and the family. A complex system can rarely be orderly -- *** Yes, I can believe that. But that is not to be construed as something that ought not to be sought--the orderliness that is. It is a work in progress, will always be. A system that is devised in such a way that it can be improved, as opposed to something that is caught in a time-warp, that cannot change or evolve, is counter-productive to the well-being of an evolving society. That is the difference. A system that can respond to society's needs may not have be ORDERLY either. It could be chaotic, but still respond to society's needs. But if the system is incapable of responding to society's needs, then it MUST be changed. Take care. c-da At 9:49 PM -0600 2/28/06, Medhi, Deep wrote: If you look up Webster's English Dictionary, it will tell you that a'system' is 'an orderly, interconnected, complex arrangement of parts'. C'da, A complex system can rarely be orderly -- orderly and complex are *nearly* oxymoron:-) Taking a cue from my world of computer science, a system almost always has some faults that can lead to race conditions. This can be possible for social systems as well. I checked dictionary.com . Only one out of eight definitions use the term 'orderly' http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=system Back to work -- Deep http://www.sce.umkc.edu/~dmedhi ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
I'd like to dance naked at Northbrook gate in Guwahati tomorrow. Do you think I can do it without getting arrested? And tell me why not, if not.I don't want to use any currency either. Can I survive with bartering my brain for Rou mas and Johasaulin assam?Dilip mc mahant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: "System" is Faulty all over. We want back the system where there Was no Lawyer, Judge( Demigod?),Lockup (Which has a hard floor and an unclean hole going nowhere),No Lawbook, No Jail, No Hangman. If the system worked for last million years before East India Company arrived it can be remade to work in 2007++ mm From: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED],assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] From TehelkaDate: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 21:19:47 -0600U, I was afraid your concept of a 'justice system' was seriously faulty. That is why I asked for an explanation of your assertion that the 'system' is not faulty. And you validated my fear. It IS very faulty!If you look up Webster's English Dictionary, it will tell you that a 'system' is 'an orderly, interconnected, complex arrangement of parts'.Typically a justice system would be much more than a judge as you perceived it to be. It would include the laws, investigative apparatus ( the police, CBI etc.). a prosecuting apparatus ( in the US it is the District Attorney's or the US Attorney's office), the court system ( lawyers, clerks, sherriff's office, magistrate etc.) , the judge and a jury system ( in the USA that is --I am not sure India has a jury system) and the penal ,system ( jails, prisons, halfway-houses, work-release programs, parole system, etc.) I will tell you a bit more about it later. At the moment I am falling asleep on the key-board. Good night all.cmAt 12:40 AM + 3/1/06, umesh sharma wrote: I meant that the judge will decide a case based on the evidence presented. If no witnesses come forth - or later "trun hostile" under pressure from the other party -- it is the police which is to be blames which cannot protect citizens from thugs. Courts come in the picture later. Thats what I thought.UmeshChan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it is not the justice system - the law and order system which is responsible.*** Can you explain what you assert here and why you do so, Umesh?cmAt 3:45 AM + 2/28/06, umesh sharma wrote:I have been following this story like many similar ones - it is notthe justice system - the law and order system which is responsible.If all the witnesses refuse to testify - thanks to threats, bribes and trudgery of long visits to courts for years - then you cannotblame the judges as having biased judgement.It is similar to mafia rule where witnesses "turn hostile." Ithappened famously in Parliamentarian DP Yadav's sons alleged killingof their sister's lover -after he danced "opnely' with her on hisbirthday near Delhi. The deceased was son of a senior IAS official.Whats the cure. Those who have been in US for long can perhapsenlighten how the mafia bosses were rif off.Umesh Umesh Sharma5121 Lackawanna STCollege Park, MD 207401-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone]Ed.M. - International Education PolicyHarvard Graduate School of Education,Harvard University,Class of 2005To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre.___assam mailing listassam@assamnet.orghttp://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___assam mailing listassam@assamnet.orghttp://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
Title: Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
That is a poor example. There are a lot of naked people in Indian
streets. Some dancing, and others just hanging out. I have seen them
myself. Dilp Deka could be a Sadhu , high on 'bhang', a godman, in
Digambari attire. Why should he be arrested? And what law-enforcer in
his right mind would want to get a Digambar Deka on his wrong
side?
I don't want to use any currency either. Can I survive with
bartering my brain for Rou mas and Johasaulin assam?
*** Huh! Say what ?
:-)
At 7:18 PM -0800 3/1/06, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
I'd like to dance naked at Northbrook
gate in Guwahati tomorrow. Do you think I can do it without getting
arrested? And tell me why not, if not.
I don't want to use any currency either.
Can I survive with bartering my brain for Rou mas and Johasaulin
assam?
Dilip
mc mahant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
System is Faulty all over.
We want back the system where there Was no Lawyer, Judge(
Demigod?),Lockup (Which has a hard floor and an unclean hole going
nowhere),No Lawbook, No Jail, No Hangman.
If the system worked for last million years before East
India Company arrived it can be remade to work in 2007++
mm
From: Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Chan Mahanta
[EMAIL PROTECTED],assam@assamnet.org
Subject: Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 21:19:47 -0600
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li
{padding-top:0;padding-bottom:0;}
U,
I was afraid your concept of a 'justice system' was
seriously faulty. That is why I asked for an explanation of your
assertion that the 'system' is not faulty. And you validated my fear.
It IS very faulty!
If you look up Webster's English Dictionary, it will tell
you that a 'system' is 'an orderly, interconnected, complex
arrangement of parts'.
Typically a justice sys! tem would be much more than a
judge as you perceived it to be. It would include the laws,
investigative apparatus ( the police, CBI etc.). a prosecuting
apparatus ( in the US it is the District Attorney's or the US
Attorney's office), the court system ( lawyers, clerks, sherriff's
office, magistrate etc.) , the judge and a jury system ( in the USA
that is --I am not sure India has a jury system) and the penal ,system
( jails, prisons, halfway-houses, work-release programs, parole
system, etc.)
I will tell you a bit more about it later. At the moment I
am falling asleep on the key-board. Good night all.
cm
At 12:40 AM + 3/1/06, umesh sharma wrote:
I meant that the judge will decide a case based on the
evidence presented. If no witnesses come forth - or later trun
hostile under pressure! from the other party -- it is the
police which is to be blames which cannot protect citizens from thugs.
Courts come in the picture later. Thats what I thought.
Umesh
Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
it is not the justice system - the law and order system which is
responsible.
*** Can you explain what you assert here and why you do so, Umesh?
cm
At 3:45 AM + 2/28/06, umesh sharma wrote:
I have been following this story like many similar ones - it is
not
the justice system - the law and order system which is
responsible.
If all the witnesses refuse to testify - thanks to threats,
bribes and trudgery of long visits to courts for years - then
you cannot
blame the judges as having biased judgement.
It is similar to mafia rule where witnesses turn hostile.
It
happened famo! usly in Parliamentarian DP Yadav's sons alleged
killing
of their sister's lover -after he danced opnely' with her on
his
birthday near Delhi. The deceased was son of a senior IAS
official.
Whats the cure. Those who have been in US for long can perhaps
enlighten how the mafia bosses were rif off.
Umesh
Umesh Sharma
5121 Lackawanna ST
College Park, MD 20740
1-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone]
Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005
To help you stay safe and
secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre.
___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
it is not the justice system - the law and order system which is responsible. *** Can you explain what you assert here and why you do so, Umesh? cm At 3:45 AM + 2/28/06, umesh sharma wrote: I have been following this story like many similar ones - it is not the justice system - the law and order system which is responsible. If all the witnesses refuse to testify - thanks to threats, bribes and trudgery of long visits to courts for years - then you cannot blame the judges as having biased judgement. It is similar to mafia rule where witnesses turn hostile. It happened famously in Parliamentarian DP Yadav's sons alleged killing of their sister's lover -after he danced opnely' with her on his birthday near Delhi. The deceased was son of a senior IAS official. Whats the cure. Those who have been in US for long can perhaps enlighten how the mafia bosses were rif off. Umesh ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
I meant that the judge will decide a case based on the evidence presented. If no witnesses come forth - or later "trun hostile" under pressure from the other party -- it is the police which is to be blames which cannot protect citizens from thugs. Courts come in the picture later. Thats what I thought.UmeshChan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it is not the justice system - the law and order system which is responsible.*** Can you explain what you assert here and why you do so, Umesh?cmAt 3:45 AM + 2/28/06, umesh sharma wrote:I have been following this story like many similar ones - it is not the justice system - the law and order system which is responsible. If all the witnesses refuse to testify - thanks to threats, bribes and trudgery of long visits to courts for years - then you cannot blame the judges as having biased judgement.It is similar to mafia rule where witnesses "turn hostile." It happened famously in Parliamentarian DP Yadav's sons alleged killing of their sister's lover -after he danced "opnely' with her on his birthday near Delhi. The deceased was son of a senior IAS official.Whats the cure. Those who have been in US for long can perhaps enlighten how the mafia bosses were rif off.UmeshUmesh Sharma5121 Lackawanna STCollege Park, MD 20740 1-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone]Ed.M. - International Education PolicyHarvard Graduate School of Education,Harvard University,Class of 2005 To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre.___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
Title: Re: [Assam] From Tehelka U, I was afraid your concept of a 'justice system' was seriously faulty. That is why I asked for an explanation of your assertion that the 'system' is not faulty. And you validated my fear. It IS very faulty! If you look up Webster's English Dictionary, it will tell you that a 'system' is 'an orderly, interconnected, complex arrangement of parts'. Typically a justice system would be much more than a judge as you perceived it to be. It would include the laws, investigative apparatus ( the police, CBI etc.). a prosecuting apparatus ( in the US it is the District Attorney's or the US Attorney's office), the court system ( lawyers, clerks, sherriff's office, magistrate etc.) , the judge and a jury system ( in the USA that is --I am not sure India has a jury system) and the penal ,system ( jails, prisons, halfway-houses, work-release programs, parole system, etc.) I will tell you a bit more about it later. At the moment I am falling asleep on the key-board. Good night all. cm At 12:40 AM + 3/1/06, umesh sharma wrote: I meant that the judge will decide a case based on the evidence presented. If no witnesses come forth - or later trun hostile under pressure from the other party -- it is the police which is to be blames which cannot protect citizens from thugs. Courts come in the picture later. Thats what I thought. Umesh Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it is not the justice system - the law and order system which is responsible. *** Can you explain what you assert here and why you do so, Umesh? cm At 3:45 AM + 2/28/06, umesh sharma wrote: I have been following this story like many similar ones - it is not the justice system - the law and order system which is responsible. If all the witnesses refuse to testify - thanks to threats, bribes and trudgery of long visits to courts for years - then you cannot blame the judges as having biased judgement. It is similar to mafia rule where witnesses turn hostile. It happened famously in Parliamentarian DP Yadav's sons alleged killing of their sister's lover -after he danced opnely' with her on his birthday near Delhi. The deceased was son of a senior IAS official. Whats the cure. Those who have been in US for long can perhaps enlighten how the mafia bosses were rif off. Umesh Umesh Sharma 5121 Lackawanna ST College Park, MD 20740 1-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone] Ed.M. - International Education Policy Harvard Graduate School of Education, Harvard University, Class of 2005 To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
I think I meant the judiciary -as the justice system. My fault.UmeshChan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:U, I was afraid your concept of a 'justice system' was seriously faulty. That is why I asked for an explanation of your assertion that the 'system' is not faulty. And you validated my fear. It IS very faulty!If you look up Webster's English Dictionary, it will tell you that a 'system' is 'an orderly, interconnected, complex arrangement of parts'.Typically a justice system would be much more than a judge as you perceived it to be. It would include the laws, investigative apparatus ( the police, CBI etc.). a prosecuting apparatus ( in the US it is the District Attorney's or the US Attorney's office), the court system ( lawyers, clerks, sherriff's office, magistrate etc.) , the judge and a jury system ( in the USA that is --I am not sure India has a jury system) and the penal ,system ( jails, prisons, halfway-houses, work-release programs, parole system, etc.) I will tell you a bit more about it later. At the moment I am falling asleep on the key-board. Good night all.cmAt 12:40 AM + 3/1/06, umesh sharma wrote: I meant that the judge will decide a case based on the evidence presented. If no witnesses come forth - or later "trun hostile" under pressure from the other party -- it is the police which is to be blames which cannot protect citizens from thugs. Courts come in the picture later. Thats what I thought.UmeshChan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it is not the justice system - the law and order system which is responsible.*** Can you explain what you assert here and why you do so, Umesh?cmAt 3:45 AM + 2/28/06, umesh sharma wrote:I have been following this story like many similar ones - it is notthe justice system - the law and order system which is responsible.If all the witnesses refuse to testify - thanks to threats, bribes and trudgery of long visits to courts for years - then you cannotblame the judges as having biased judgement.It is similar to mafia rule where witnesses "turn hostile." Ithappened famously in Parliamentarian DP Yadav's sons alleged killingof their sister's lover -after he danced "opnely' with her on hisbirthday near Delhi. The deceased was son of a senior IAS official.Whats the cure. Those who have been in US for long can perhapsenlighten how the mafia bosses were rif off.Umesh Umesh Sharma5121 Lackawanna STCollege Park, MD 207401-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone]Ed.M. - International Education PolicyHarvard Graduate School of Education,Harvard University,Class of 2005To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. Umesh Sharma5121 Lackawanna STCollege Park, MD 20740 1-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone]Ed.M. - International Education PolicyHarvard Graduate School of Education,Harvard University,Class of 2005 Yahoo! Photos NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo.___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] From Tehelka
Title: From Tehelka Highlighting mine. cm Who killed Jessica Lall? What is it about us that lets murder go unpunished? Is it just a rotten system? Or are we also a sick, uncaring society? Vineet Khare reports on a verdict that has left most aghast Shock Of Their Lives: Jessica's sister Sabrina and her father at their home in Gurgaon after the acquittal of the charged Photo Sharad Saxena Grief hangs heavy in the Lall residence. The vacant, haunted-by-grief look on 77-year-old Ajit Kumar Lall's face, his feeble footstep, his demeanour is difficult to bear. The relief, perhaps, lies in the fact that the father does not connect his daughter Jessica Lall's face - staring out of a framed photo on the wall - with the murder that happened that night. That night, long ago, seven long years ago, on April 29, 1999, when Jessica slumped on the cold floor at Tamarind Court, a glitzy restaurant whose rooftop in Delhi afforded one of the most breathtaking views of the Qutub Minar. The moonlit night and at least a hundred privileged party-goers had witnessed a murder most foul. The young Jessica, who had offered to play bargirl, had been shot only because she had refused to serve a drink. A hundred people at the very least had heard the gunshots pierce the night, some, if not most of them had most certainly seen the man who pulled the trigger. The facts are simple and stark - Jessica had been shot and killed and yet, seven years later, the only words that Additional Sessions Judge SL Bhayana read out on the case that had shocked the Capital were, "All the accused are acquitted." The judgement is more shocking than the crime. Justice denied because the police could not gather enough evidence to secure the conviction of those accused of her murder. If we set aside our cynicism and deadened reflexive responses for a moment, two facts, both obvious, still stand out: all the accused here belong to the upper crust, and so did many of those hundreds of eyewitnesses in front of whom Jessica was shot dead. Of course this travesty of justice is a severe indictment of the dysfunctional criminal justice system. But how does it reflect on our glitterati, on us, on the hundred-plus who were witness to the crime. In her quest for justice, Sabrina Lall confesses to paying witness Karan Rajput, who turned hostile. She says he extracted money from both the defence and the prosecution Sabrina, Jessica's sister, had lost hope long back. "I had been expecting it (ever) since Manu Sharma was granted bail. But despite the expected, I was saddened and depressed. I have lost faith in the judiciary and everyone," she says sitting with her father in their Gurgaon residence. It was not always like this. After all, many had seen prime accused Manu Sharma scurrying out of Qutub Colonnade. The murder had many eyewitnesses. The police had shown alacrity in apprehending Manu. And the Lalls had the media's support and sympathy. There were contrary and glaring facts. Facts that the court could have questioned. Why for instance did the police or the prosecution not probe the fact that there were glaring inconsistencies between their claim that only one weapon was used and the forensic report which said two weapons had been used? What went wrong? "Money and power held sway, with the entire system succumbing to the powerplay of the rich," says Sabrina. "Our system takes too long in dispensing justice. When the investigations began, we felt it was an open-and-shut case. But as the case progressed, we realised that getting justice won't be all that easy. While we fought hard to seek justice, a battery of top defence counsels sniggered and gave dirty looks. But it was Shayan Munshi's blatant lies in court, his theory regarding two killers that sealed the case. After religiously following the case for two years and eight months, I lost faith. Our quest for justice has failed." The reason why the case ended with no conviction is that classic of the Indian criminal justice system - the witnesses turned hostile. Sabrina's anger is especially directed at Munshi, model, aspiring actor and one of the three key witnesses who later turned hostile. "I thought he was educated and came from a good background. I called him so many times before his appearance at the court, but he wouldn't respond. He never bothered to return calls. I had then realised he would turn hostile. As expected, he shamelessly kept spitting lies before the judge. At that time, the fashion fraternity had risen in his support, but I just wanted him to speak the truth before the judge." Steadfast Witnesses: Bina and Malini Ramani Adds Sabrina's business partner and family friend, Nalini: "There was no question of him being threatened. He seems to have been paid to keep his mouth shut." Munshi couldn't be reached for comments. Sabrina also accused Karan Rajput, another witness who turned hostile, of demanding money from her in return for deposing in her favour. "He extracted money from
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
I have been following this story like many similar ones - it is not the justice system - the law and order system which is responsible. If all the witnesses refuse to testify - thanks to threats, bribes and trudgery of long visits to courts for years - then you cannot blame the judges as having biased judgement.It is similar to mafia rule where witnesses "turn hostile." It happened famously in Parliamentarian DP Yadav's sons alleged killing of their sister's lover -after he danced "opnely' with her on his birthday near Delhi. The deceased was son of a senior IAS official.Whats the cure. Those who have been in US for long can perhaps enlighten how the mafia bosses were rif off.UmeshChan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Highlighting mine.cmWho killed Jessica Lall?What is it about us that lets murder go unpunished? Is it just a rotten system? Or are we also a sick, uncaring society? Vineet Khare reports on a verdict that has left most aghastShock Of Their Lives: Jessica's sister Sabrina and her father at their home in Gurgaon after the acquittal of the chargedPhoto Sharad SaxenaGrief hangs heavy in the Lall residence. The vacant, haunted-by-grief look on 77-year-old Ajit Kumar Lall's face, his feeble footstep, his demeanour is difficult to bear. The relief, perhaps, lies in the fact that the father does not connect his daughter Jessica Lall's face - staring out of a framed photo on the wall - with the murder that happened that night. That night, long ago, seven long years ago, on April 29, 1999, when Jessica slumped on the cold floor at Tamarind Court, a glitzy restaurant whose rooftop in Delhi afforded one of the most breathtaking views of the Qutub Minar.The moonlit night and at least a hundred privileged party-goers had witnessed a murder most foul. The young Jessica, who had offered to play bargirl, had been shot only because she had refused to serve a drink. A hundred people at the very least had heard the gunshots pierce the night, some, if not most of them had most certainly seen the man who pulled the trigger. The facts are simple and stark - Jessica had been shot and killed and yet, seven years later, the only words that Additional Sessions Judge SL Bhayana read out on the case that had shocked the Capital were, "All the accused are acquitted."The judgement is more shocking than the crime. Justice denied because the police could not gather enough evidence to secure the conviction of those accused of her murder. If we set aside our cynicism and deadened reflexive responses for a moment, two facts, both obvious, still stand out: all the accused here belong to the upper crust, and so did many of those hundreds of eyewitnesses in front of whom Jessica was shot dead. Of course this travesty of justice is a severe indictment of the dysfunctional criminal justice system. But how does it reflect on our glitterati, on us, on the hundred-plus who were witness to the crime.In her quest for justice, Sabrina Lall confesses to paying witness Karan Rajput, who turned hostile. She says he extracted money from both the defence and the prosecutionSabrina, Jessica's sister, had lost hope long back. "I had been expecting it (ever) since Manu Sharma was granted bail. But despite the expected, I was saddened and depressed. I have lost faith in the judiciary and everyone," she says sitting with her father in their Gurgaon residence.It was not always like this. After all, many had seen prime accused Manu Sharma scurrying out of Qutub Colonnade. The murder had many eyewitnesses. The police had shown alacrity in apprehending Manu. And the Lalls had the media's support and sympathy. There were contrary and glaring facts. Facts that the court could have questioned. Why for instance did the police or the prosecution not probe the fact that there were glaring inconsistencies between their claim that only one weapon was used and the forensic report which said two weapons had been used? What went wrong? "Money and power held sway, with the entire system succumbing to the powerplay of the rich," says Sabrina. "Our system takes too long in dispensing justice. When the investigations began, we felt it was an open-and-shut case. But as the case progressed, we realised that getting justice won't be all that easy. While we fought hard to seek justice, a battery of top defence counsels sniggered and gave dirty looks. But it was Shayan Munshi's blatant lies in court, his theory regarding two killers that sealed the case. After religiously following the case for two years and eight months, I lost faith. Our quest for justice has failed." The reason why the case ended with no conviction is that classic of the Indian criminal justice system - the witnesses turned hostile. Sabrina's anger is especially directed at Munshi, model, aspiring actor and one of the three key witnesses who later turned hostile. "I thought he was educated and came from a good background. I called him so many times before his
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
Aw Ganesh, Ganesh, Ganesh ! You missed the most obvious and important parts. But I can guess why :-)! Anyway, just in case, you really did not understand, the following are the points: c-da At 2:49 PM -0800 2/14/06, Ganesh C Bora wrote: C'da: I was trying to find what message the writer wants the reader to get. Is it - The Shabari Kumbh mela should not be there? - The only backward place in India? - The organizer is RSS or affiliated organizations? Have the writer ever visited 'Sahitya Sabha Odhibexon' in Assam? It is the same case. The place gets a face-lift. That is the reason why a place wants to organize such a MELA. Ganesh --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When It Comes To Power The RSS Knows Its Gods Why this hostility around an inspirational story from a great epic? By Dilip D'Souza Dilip D'Souza The road to Ahwa gets worse as we get closer to the little town. We can tell as much by the light of a full Sankrant moon, playing peekaboo as we wind through the hills; brilliant burnt orange when we first see it low on the horizon, gleaming silver high into the sky as the night wears on. Though really, I don't need the moon to tell me how bad the road is. The bumps suffice. On the right along one stretch, there's nothing between us and the dull gleam of a river. But wait, what are those flickers of orange just beyond the road's edge? Small fires. We've seen plenty of those, clumps of people huddled around them warding off the January Dangs chill. But here the fires seem...well, constricted. These are fires inside small shacks. These are labourers working on the road, living beside it for the duration, as migrant labour does. Labourers, come 'home' for the night. Shacks like these, all over the Dangs. So what's cooking here? The Shabari Kumbh mela, 500,000 pilgrims expected. Roads are being improved, but there's more. Long tracts of empty fields have sprouted poles, by the thousands, for tents to house pilgrims. Troughs have been dug and lined with multi-coloured toilets. Large plastic water tanks stand on concrete platforms. Electricity is making its way all over the district. The Purna river has had 22 check dams built on it to form Pampasarovar, where pilgrims are supposed to bathe. All this, because for years, tribals in the Dangs have quietly venerated a spot on top of a hill near dusty Subir. Kumbh organisers say this is where Shabari sat Ram and Lakshman while she fed them berries. So they are building a temple here, and decided to hold this celebration. Hyper-reality: Shabari Kumbh poster Witness this inscription: We will remove conversions and jehadi mentality from this world...What does such hostility have to do with a tender story from a great epic? February 11, 12, 13, 2006: likely the most crowded days the Dangs will ever see. Yet, if faith is to be served, if pilgrims are to find spiritual fulfillment in the gentle waters of man-made Pampasarovar - why the things you hear about the event? An RSS activist at the mela office, Mahesh Daga said, The main objective is to put a full stop to conversion of tribals. The Kumbh mela's website, shabarikumbh.org, has a section, 'About Kumbh'. The second paragraph there is a denunciation of the Christian church. You learn that the slogan Hindu jagao, Christi bhagao has become 'popular' in the Dangs. You learn that Swami Aseemananda, one of the moving spirits behind the mela, told Christians here, I have come here to drive away those who have come here to serve. What does such hostility have to do with a tender story from a great epic? 'About Kumbh' has more of interest. Organising a Kumbh in a remote, heavily forested area is a nightmare, it says. The 352 villages in Dang district had no electricity or roads ... There are no medical facilities or eateries in the vicinity. ... Realizing the importance of (the Kumbh) the state government of Shri Narendra Modi has extended full cooperation (and) has undertaken construction of roads on a war footing. All the 352 villages of Dang have got electrification. Good. But consider: if the state government has done so much since the idea for the Kumbh, why was the Dangs deprived before? After all, Modi has been in power for several years. Why did it need a Kumbh for his government to bring electricity here, to construct roads on a war footing? The irony goes deeper. We drove between the Navsari border and Ahwa one night, between Pampasarovar and Ahwa the next night. If you discount Ahwa, the number of electric lights we saw could be numbered on two hands. Oh, but plenty of village homes were lit by fires and oil lamps. Some families used to have electricity and meters but could not pay their bills. Why?
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka-2
Sorry Ganesh, I forgot to complete the previous reply: The points you missed are: A: the egregious politics of religion as is being played out in Gujarat. B: Tyranny of the religious majority. C: Religious terrorism, as demonstrated in: The main objective is to put a full stop to conversion of tribals. The second paragraph there is a denunciation of the Christian church. You learn that the slogan Hindu jagao, Christi bhagao has become 'popular' in the Dangs I have come here to drive away those who have come here to serve. Dharmantran aur jehad ke vichaar ko vishwa se nirmool karenge (We will remove conversions and the jehadi mentality from this world). E: Fake public service: Oh, but plenty of village homes were lit by fires and oil lamps. Some families used to have electricity and meters but could not pay their bills. Why? One farmer told us that bills only came once in two years, thus for large amounts like Rs 12,000. Unable to pay - they could have managed smaller monthly bills - their meters and supply were taken away. So I have no idea what shabarikumbh.org means by claiming that all 352 villages have been electrifi And later, as we drive past dark villages like Mukhammal and Jarsol where meters were installed, then ripped out, we can see brightness on that hill. Yes, the not-yet-finished temple has lights at night. The villages don't At 2:49 PM -0800 2/14/06, Ganesh C Bora wrote: C'da: I was trying to find what message the writer wants the reader to get. Is it - The Shabari Kumbh mela should not be there? - The only backward place in India? - The organizer is RSS or affiliated organizations? Have the writer ever visited 'Sahitya Sabha Odhibexon' in Assam? It is the same case. The place gets a face-lift. That is the reason why a place wants to organize such a MELA. Ganesh --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When It Comes To Power The RSS Knows Its Gods Why this hostility around an inspirational story from a great epic? By Dilip D'Souza Dilip D'Souza The road to Ahwa gets worse as we get closer to the little town. We can tell as much by the light of a full Sankrant moon, playing peekaboo as we wind through the hills; brilliant burnt orange when we first see it low on the horizon, gleaming silver high into the sky as the night wears on. Though really, I don't need the moon to tell me how bad the road is. The bumps suffice. On the right along one stretch, there's nothing between us and the dull gleam of a river. But wait, what are those flickers of orange just beyond the road's edge? Small fires. We've seen plenty of those, clumps of people huddled around them warding off the January Dangs chill. But here the fires seem...well, constricted. These are fires inside small shacks. These are labourers working on the road, living beside it for the duration, as migrant labour does. Labourers, come 'home' for the night. Shacks like these, all over the Dangs. So what's cooking here? The Shabari Kumbh mela, 500,000 pilgrims expected. Roads are being improved, but there's more. Long tracts of empty fields have sprouted poles, by the thousands, for tents to house pilgrims. Troughs have been dug and lined with multi-coloured toilets. Large plastic water tanks stand on concrete platforms. Electricity is making its way all over the district. The Purna river has had 22 check dams built on it to form Pampasarovar, where pilgrims are supposed to bathe. All this, because for years, tribals in the Dangs have quietly venerated a spot on top of a hill near dusty Subir. Kumbh organisers say this is where Shabari sat Ram and Lakshman while she fed them berries. So they are building a temple here, and decided to hold this celebration. Hyper-reality: Shabari Kumbh poster Witness this inscription: We will remove conversions and jehadi mentality from this world...What does such hostility have to do with a tender story from a great epic? February 11, 12, 13, 2006: likely the most crowded days the Dangs will ever see. Yet, if faith is to be served, if pilgrims are to find spiritual fulfillment in the gentle waters of man-made Pampasarovar - why the things you hear about the event? An RSS activist at the mela office, Mahesh Daga said, The main objective is to put a full stop to conversion of tribals. The Kumbh mela's website, shabarikumbh.org, has a section, 'About Kumbh'. The second paragraph there is a denunciation of the Christian church. You learn that the slogan Hindu jagao, Christi bhagao has become 'popular' in the Dangs. You learn that Swami Aseemananda, one
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka-2
C'da: Actually I have no problem if RSS can stop conversion of Tribals into Christianity. I always have pain to learn that Christian Missionaries serves only those tribal areas who are 'willing' to convert. Terrorism is always bad. Did you not notice MINORITY terrorism during more than 5 decades of Congress rule. Definitely that led to the birth of majority terrorism. Moreover majority terrorism is lesser devil than minority terrorism. Ganesh --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry Ganesh, I forgot to complete the previous reply: The points you missed are: A: the egregious politics of religion as is being played out in Gujarat. B: Tyranny of the religious majority. C: Religious terrorism, as demonstrated in: The main objective is to put a full stop to conversion of tribals. The second paragraph there is a denunciation of the Christian church. You learn that the slogan Hindu jagao, Christi bhagao has become 'popular' in the Dangs I have come here to drive away those who have come here to serve. Dharmantran aur jehad ke vichaar ko vishwa se nirmool karenge (We will remove conversions and the jehadi mentality from this world). E: Fake public service: Oh, but plenty of village homes were lit by fires and oil lamps. Some families used to have electricity and meters but could not pay their bills. Why? One farmer told us that bills only came once in two years, thus for large amounts like Rs 12,000. Unable to pay - they could have managed smaller monthly bills - their meters and supply were taken away. So I have no idea what shabarikumbh.org means by claiming that all 352 villages have been electrifi And later, as we drive past dark villages like Mukhammal and Jarsol where meters were installed, then ripped out, we can see brightness on that hill. Yes, the not-yet-finished temple has lights at night. The villages don't At 2:49 PM -0800 2/14/06, Ganesh C Bora wrote: C'da: I was trying to find what message the writer wants the reader to get. Is it - The Shabari Kumbh mela should not be there? - The only backward place in India? - The organizer is RSS or affiliated organizations? Have the writer ever visited 'Sahitya Sabha Odhibexon' in Assam? It is the same case. The place gets a face-lift. That is the reason why a place wants to organize such a MELA. Ganesh --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When It Comes To Power The RSS Knows Its Gods Why this hostility around an inspirational story from a great epic? By Dilip D'Souza Dilip D'Souza The road to Ahwa gets worse as we get closer to the little town. We can tell as much by the light of a full Sankrant moon, playing peekaboo as we wind through the hills; brilliant burnt orange when we first see it low on the horizon, gleaming silver high into the sky as the night wears on. Though really, I don't need the moon to tell me how bad the road is. The bumps suffice. On the right along one stretch, there's nothing between us and the dull gleam of a river. But wait, what are those flickers of orange just beyond the road's edge? Small fires. We've seen plenty of those, clumps of people huddled around them warding off the January Dangs chill. But here the fires seem...well, constricted. These are fires inside small shacks. These are labourers working on the road, living beside it for the duration, as migrant labour does. Labourers, come 'home' for the night. Shacks like these, all over the Dangs. So what's cooking here? The Shabari Kumbh mela, 500,000 pilgrims expected. Roads are being improved, but there's more. Long tracts of empty fields have sprouted poles, by the thousands, for tents to house pilgrims. Troughs have been dug and lined with multi-coloured toilets. Large plastic water tanks stand on concrete platforms. Electricity is making its way all over the district. The Purna river has had 22 check dams built on it to form Pampasarovar, where pilgrims are supposed to bathe. All this, because for years, tribals in the Dangs have quietly venerated a spot on top of a hill near dusty Subir. Kumbh organisers say this is where Shabari sat Ram and Lakshman while she fed them berries. So they are building a temple here, and decided to hold this celebration. Hyper-reality: Shabari Kumbh poster Witness this inscription: We will remove conversions and jehadi mentality from this world...What does such hostility have to do with a tender story from a great epic? February 11, 12, 13, 2006: likely the most crowded days the Dangs
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka-2
At 3:21 PM -0800 2/15/06, Ganesh C Bora wrote: C'da: Actually I have no problem if RSS can stop conversion of Tribals into Christianity. *** WHY do you want that stopped Ganesh? Aren't people supposed to be free to worship the God of their choice in India, and accept the religion they choose to? Or is it really not so? Why would YOU want to impose YOUR religion on someone else? How would you react if you wanted to convert to Islam and your neighbors won't let you? I always have pain to learn that Christian Missionaries serves only those tribal areas who are 'willing' to convert. *** First off, WHERE on earth did you learn that from Ganesh? Have you ever attempted to verify if that is a FACT ? And secondly, EVEN if that is for a fact, what gives YOU or me or the RSS the right to take issue with that? How can you or I or the RSS dicate to the Christians WHO or WHERE they must serve? Finally, *I* can tell you that this charge of -- only those tribal areas who are 'willing' to convert. --is a bald-faced lie, a fabrication! How do I know that? Because I went to a school run by Catholic missionaries. I was a boarding school student. I know of the services they provided, first hand, to me and so many others who had nothing to do with being a Christian. I also know of all the ignorant people who used to ask me if I had been converted to a Christian, or if I was asked to or forced to. Terrorism is always bad. Did you not notice MINORITY terrorism during more than 5 decades of Congress rule. *** No I did NOT Ganesh. How could a 13% minority terrorize the rest of 87% of India , can you explain? And if they DID indeed terrorize the rest where was the GOVERNMENT? Why dd it not do anything about it? And if you are attempting to suggest that the ruling party let such 'terrorism' reign with impunity, why did the people keep them in power you think? Or are you going to suggest that the minority prevented the majority from exercising their democratic powers ? That would be a rather sorry excuse Ganesh. Definitely that led to the birth of majority terrorism. Moreover majority terrorism is lesser devil than minority terrorism. *** Oh really? That is new to me Ganesh. c-da Ganesh --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry Ganesh, I forgot to complete the previous reply: The points you missed are: A: the egregious politics of religion as is being played out in Gujarat. B: Tyranny of the religious majority. C: Religious terrorism, as demonstrated in: The main objective is to put a full stop to conversion of tribals. The second paragraph there is a denunciation of the Christian church. You learn that the slogan Hindu jagao, Christi bhagao has become 'popular' in the Dangs I have come here to drive away those who have come here to serve. Dharmantran aur jehad ke vichaar ko vishwa se nirmool karenge (We will remove conversions and the jehadi mentality from this world). E: Fake public service: Oh, but plenty of village homes were lit by fires and oil lamps. Some families used to have electricity and meters but could not pay their bills. Why? One farmer told us that bills only came once in two years, thus for large amounts like Rs 12,000. Unable to pay - they could have managed smaller monthly bills - their meters and supply were taken away. So I have no idea what shabarikumbh.org means by claiming that all 352 villages have been electrifi And later, as we drive past dark villages like Mukhammal and Jarsol where meters were installed, then ripped out, we can see brightness on that hill. Yes, the not-yet-finished temple has lights at night. The villages don't At 2:49 PM -0800 2/14/06, Ganesh C Bora wrote: C'da: I was trying to find what message the writer wants the reader to get. Is it - The Shabari Kumbh mela should not be there? - The only backward place in India? - The organizer is RSS or affiliated organizations? Have the writer ever visited 'Sahitya Sabha Odhibexon' in Assam? It is the same case. The place gets a face-lift. That is the reason why a place wants to organize such a MELA. Ganesh --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When It Comes To Power The RSS Knows Its Gods Why this hostility around an inspirational story from a great epic? By Dilip D'Souza Dilip D'Souza The road to Ahwa gets worse as we get closer to the little town. We can tell as much by the light of a full Sankrant moon, playing peekaboo as we wind through the hills; brilliant burnt orange when we first see it low on the horizon, gleaming silver high into the sky as the night wears on. Though really, I don't need the moon to tell me how bad the road is. The bumps
[Assam] From Tehelka
When It Comes To Power The RSS Knows Its Gods Why this hostility around an inspirational story from a great epic? By Dilip D'Souza Dilip D'Souza The road to Ahwa gets worse as we get closer to the little town. We can tell as much by the light of a full Sankrant moon, playing peekaboo as we wind through the hills; brilliant burnt orange when we first see it low on the horizon, gleaming silver high into the sky as the night wears on. Though really, I don't need the moon to tell me how bad the road is. The bumps suffice. On the right along one stretch, there's nothing between us and the dull gleam of a river. But wait, what are those flickers of orange just beyond the road's edge? Small fires. We've seen plenty of those, clumps of people huddled around them warding off the January Dangs chill. But here the fires seem...well, constricted. These are fires inside small shacks. These are labourers working on the road, living beside it for the duration, as migrant labour does. Labourers, come 'home' for the night. Shacks like these, all over the Dangs. So what's cooking here? The Shabari Kumbh mela, 500,000 pilgrims expected. Roads are being improved, but there's more. Long tracts of empty fields have sprouted poles, by the thousands, for tents to house pilgrims. Troughs have been dug and lined with multi-coloured toilets. Large plastic water tanks stand on concrete platforms. Electricity is making its way all over the district. The Purna river has had 22 check dams built on it to form Pampasarovar, where pilgrims are supposed to bathe. All this, because for years, tribals in the Dangs have quietly venerated a spot on top of a hill near dusty Subir. Kumbh organisers say this is where Shabari sat Ram and Lakshman while she fed them berries. So they are building a temple here, and decided to hold this celebration. Hyper-reality: Shabari Kumbh poster Witness this inscription: We will remove conversions and jehadi mentality from this world...What does such hostility have to do with a tender story from a great epic? February 11, 12, 13, 2006: likely the most crowded days the Dangs will ever see. Yet, if faith is to be served, if pilgrims are to find spiritual fulfillment in the gentle waters of man-made Pampasarovar - why the things you hear about the event? An RSS activist at the mela office, Mahesh Daga said, The main objective is to put a full stop to conversion of tribals. The Kumbh mela's website, shabarikumbh.org, has a section, 'About Kumbh'. The second paragraph there is a denunciation of the Christian church. You learn that the slogan Hindu jagao, Christi bhagao has become 'popular' in the Dangs. You learn that Swami Aseemananda, one of the moving spirits behind the mela, told Christians here, I have come here to drive away those who have come here to serve. What does such hostility have to do with a tender story from a great epic? 'About Kumbh' has more of interest. Organising a Kumbh in a remote, heavily forested area is a nightmare, it says. The 352 villages in Dang district had no electricity or roads ... There are no medical facilities or eateries in the vicinity. ... Realizing the importance of (the Kumbh) the state government of Shri Narendra Modi has extended full cooperation (and) has undertaken construction of roads on a war footing. All the 352 villages of Dang have got electrification. Good. But consider: if the state government has done so much since the idea for the Kumbh, why was the Dangs deprived before? After all, Modi has been in power for several years. Why did it need a Kumbh for his government to bring electricity here, to construct roads on a war footing? The irony goes deeper. We drove between the Navsari border and Ahwa one night, between Pampasarovar and Ahwa the next night. If you discount Ahwa, the number of electric lights we saw could be numbered on two hands. Oh, but plenty of village homes were lit by fires and oil lamps. Some families used to have electricity and meters but could not pay their bills. Why? One farmer told us that bills only came once in two years, thus for large amounts like Rs 12,000. Unable to pay - they could have managed smaller monthly bills - their meters and supply were taken away. So I have no idea what shabarikumbh.org means by claiming that all 352 villages have been electrified. What is electrified, of course, is the temple. Sited on top of a hill with a magnificent view of forested slopes, the Shabari Dham temple promises to be a spectacular tribute to a charming story. Yet here too, there is hostility. To one side is a large concrete water tank, with this inscription: Dharmantran aur jehad ke vichaar ko vishwa se nirmool karenge (We will remove conversions and the jehadi mentality from this world). And later, as we drive past dark villages like Mukhammal and Jarsol where meters were installed, then ripped out, we can see brightness on that
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
C'da: I was trying to find what message the writer wants the reader to get. Is it - The Shabari Kumbh mela should not be there? - The only backward place in India? - The organizer is RSS or affiliated organizations? Have the writer ever visited 'Sahitya Sabha Odhibexon' in Assam? It is the same case. The place gets a face-lift. That is the reason why a place wants to organize such a MELA. Ganesh --- Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When It Comes To Power The RSS Knows Its Gods Why this hostility around an inspirational story from a great epic? By Dilip D'Souza Dilip D'Souza The road to Ahwa gets worse as we get closer to the little town. We can tell as much by the light of a full Sankrant moon, playing peekaboo as we wind through the hills; brilliant burnt orange when we first see it low on the horizon, gleaming silver high into the sky as the night wears on. Though really, I don't need the moon to tell me how bad the road is. The bumps suffice. On the right along one stretch, there's nothing between us and the dull gleam of a river. But wait, what are those flickers of orange just beyond the road's edge? Small fires. We've seen plenty of those, clumps of people huddled around them warding off the January Dangs chill. But here the fires seem...well, constricted. These are fires inside small shacks. These are labourers working on the road, living beside it for the duration, as migrant labour does. Labourers, come 'home' for the night. Shacks like these, all over the Dangs. So what's cooking here? The Shabari Kumbh mela, 500,000 pilgrims expected. Roads are being improved, but there's more. Long tracts of empty fields have sprouted poles, by the thousands, for tents to house pilgrims. Troughs have been dug and lined with multi-coloured toilets. Large plastic water tanks stand on concrete platforms. Electricity is making its way all over the district. The Purna river has had 22 check dams built on it to form Pampasarovar, where pilgrims are supposed to bathe. All this, because for years, tribals in the Dangs have quietly venerated a spot on top of a hill near dusty Subir. Kumbh organisers say this is where Shabari sat Ram and Lakshman while she fed them berries. So they are building a temple here, and decided to hold this celebration. Hyper-reality: Shabari Kumbh poster Witness this inscription: We will remove conversions and jehadi mentality from this world...What does such hostility have to do with a tender story from a great epic? February 11, 12, 13, 2006: likely the most crowded days the Dangs will ever see. Yet, if faith is to be served, if pilgrims are to find spiritual fulfillment in the gentle waters of man-made Pampasarovar - why the things you hear about the event? An RSS activist at the mela office, Mahesh Daga said, The main objective is to put a full stop to conversion of tribals. The Kumbh mela's website, shabarikumbh.org, has a section, 'About Kumbh'. The second paragraph there is a denunciation of the Christian church. You learn that the slogan Hindu jagao, Christi bhagao has become 'popular' in the Dangs. You learn that Swami Aseemananda, one of the moving spirits behind the mela, told Christians here, I have come here to drive away those who have come here to serve. What does such hostility have to do with a tender story from a great epic? 'About Kumbh' has more of interest. Organising a Kumbh in a remote, heavily forested area is a nightmare, it says. The 352 villages in Dang district had no electricity or roads ... There are no medical facilities or eateries in the vicinity. ... Realizing the importance of (the Kumbh) the state government of Shri Narendra Modi has extended full cooperation (and) has undertaken construction of roads on a war footing. All the 352 villages of Dang have got electrification. Good. But consider: if the state government has done so much since the idea for the Kumbh, why was the Dangs deprived before? After all, Modi has been in power for several years. Why did it need a Kumbh for his government to bring electricity here, to construct roads on a war footing? The irony goes deeper. We drove between the Navsari border and Ahwa one night, between Pampasarovar and Ahwa the next night. If you discount Ahwa, the number of electric lights we saw could be numbered on two hands. Oh, but plenty of village homes were lit by fires and oil lamps. Some families used to have electricity and meters but could not pay their bills. Why? One farmer told us that bills only came once in two years, thus for large amounts like Rs 12,000. Unable to pay - they could have managed smaller monthly bills - their meters and supply were taken away. So I have no idea what shabarikumbh.org means by claiming that all 352 villages have been
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
Title: Re: [Assam] From Tehelka --- Congress leaders are supposed to be abovecaste differences, as compared toother parties (aren't they the champions of secularity and the minorities?):-). *** Have you been smoking the wrong stuff again :-)? At 8:09 PM -0800 2/2/06, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote: Umesh, OBSERVATIONS: 1. Is Banta same as Bant? 2. Is everyone a Sikh is Punjab as you suggested? Sikhism does not recognize social stratification as I know. 3. I didn't know there were Dalits in Punjab. 4.Could it be economic differences and social stratification due to it have more to do with it than caste etc.? 5. critically injured Bant Singh was left for 36 hours in the Mansa Civil Hospital, while the hospital authorities, influenced by Congress leaders refused him treatment --- Congress leaders are supposed to be abovecaste differences, as compared toother parties (aren't they the champions of secularity and the minorities?):-). You mean they also fell into the trap? 6. He is still fighting for his life, but says, I have my voice, they can't stop my songs. -- I applaud his strength and spirit. Dilip Deka umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good work by Banta Singh. I did not know that there was still casteism in Punjab. Maybe even after becoming Sikhs those who came from dalit families have continued to face ill treatment from those who came from landholding - uppercastes. Even Bihari laborers in farms suffer there. Umesh Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dalit Singer Dalit Dignity: Bant Singh after the amputation of his hands and a leg in PGI, Chandigarh Bant Singh is a revolutionary Dalit singer from Mansa, Punjab. He is a supporter of the CPI (ML-Liberation), an overground Naxalite organisation. He became active in 2000 wh! en his minor daughter was raped: therein begun the protracted struggle of the dalits for self dignity and human rights against Jat landlords, in this case, backed by the ruling Congress regime in the state. Punjab's huge dalit population has been fighting a running battle for land, wages and fundamental rights against the landlords, who control land and political power. The rapists were given life sentence in 2002. On January 5, 2006, Sarpanch Jaswant Singh and former Sarpanch Niranjan Singh of Jhabbar village allegedly conspired a brutal attack on Bant Singh as revenge, according to the CPI(ML). The party has alleged that a critically injured Bant Singh was left for 36 hours in the Mansa Civil Hospital, while the hospital authorities, influenced by Congress leaders, refused him treatment. Eventually, he was taken to the PGI in Chandigarh, where both his arms and one leg had to be amputated because gangrene had set in. He is ! still fighting for his life, but says, I have my voice, they can't stop my songs. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org Umesh Sharma 5121 Lackawanna ST College Park, MD 20740 1-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone] Ed.M. - International Education Policy Harvard Graduate School of Education, Harvard University, Class of 2005 Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
Dilip-da,1. My mistake about misspelling Mr Bant Singh 2. Santa and Banta are common names among Sikhs so most likely he is a Sikh. 3.Though it is true that Sikhs do not recognize casteism but there are subtle issues - ainly becos of economic status. Many Bedi surnamedSikhs are proud of having a "Brahmin anscestory" -as is revealed by those who are really rustic , from villages in Punjab and working in Delhi etc. Perhaps for thsi reason they also are grantedcaste-based reservation by Indian govt. 4. Various Sikh surnames have different stereotypes. A Sikh friend said that "Bhopa" Sikhs are known to be shrewd and cunning businessmen.Umesh Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Umesh,OBSERVATIONS:1. Is Banta same as Bant? 2. Is everyone a Sikh is Punjab as you suggested? Sikhism does not recognize social stratification as I know. 3. I didn't know there were Dalits in Punjab. 4.Could it be economic differences and social stratification due to it have more to do with it than caste etc.? 5. "critically injured Bant Singh was left for 36 hours in the Mansa Civil Hospital, while the hospital authorities, influenced by Congress leaders refused him treatment" --- Congress leaders are supposed to be abovecaste differences, as compared toother parties (aren't they the champions of secularity and the minorities?):-). You mean they also fell into the trap? 6. "He is still fighting for his life, but says, "I have my voice, they can't stop my songs." -- I applaud his strength and spirit. Dilip Deka umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Good work by Banta Singh. I did not know that there was still casteism in Punjab. Maybe even after becoming Sikhs those who came from dalit families have continued to face ill treatment from those who came from landholding - uppercastes. Even Bihari laborers in farms suffer there.UmeshChan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dalit SingerDalit Dignity: Bant Singh after the amputation of his hands and a leg in PGI, ChandigarhBant Singh is a revolutionary Dalit singer from Mansa, Punjab. He is a supporter of the CPI (ML-Liberation), an overground Naxalite organisation. He became active in 2000 whe n his minor daughter was raped: therein begun the protracted struggle of the dalits for self dignity and human rights against Jat landlords, in this case, backed by the ruling Congress regime in the state. Punjab's huge dalit population has been fighting a running battle for land, wages and fundamental rights against the landlords, who control land and political power. The rapists were given life sentence in 2002. On January 5, 2006, Sarpanch Jaswant Singh and former Sarpanch Niranjan Singh of Jhabbar village allegedly conspired a brutal attack on Bant Singh as revenge, according to the CPI(ML). The party has alleged that a critically injured Bant Singh was left for 36 hours in the Mansa Civil Hospital, while the hospital authorities, influenced by Congress leaders, refused him treatment. Eventually, he was taken to the PGI in Chandigarh, where both his arms and one leg had to be amputated because gangrene had set in. He is s till fighting for his life, but says, "I have my voice, they can't stop my songs."___assam mailing listassam@assamnet.orghttp://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.orgUmesh Sharma5121 Lackawanna STCollege Park, MD 207401-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone]Ed.M. - International Education PolicyHarvard Graduate School of Education,Harvard University,Class of 2005 Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail ___assam mailing listassam@assamnet.orghttp://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.orgUmesh Sharma5121 Lackawanna STCollege Park, MD 20740 1-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone]Ed.M. - International Education PolicyHarvard Graduate School of Education,Harvard University,Class of 2005 Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
Good work by Banta Singh. I did not know that there was still casteism in Punjab. Maybe even after becoming Sikhs those who came from dalit families have continued to face ill treatment from those who came from landholding - uppercastes. Even Bihari laborers in farms suffer there.UmeshChan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dalit SingerDalit Dignity: Bant Singh after the amputation of his hands and a leg in PGI, ChandigarhBant Singh is a revolutionary Dalit singer from Mansa, Punjab. He is a supporter of the CPI (ML-Liberation), an overground Naxalite organisation. He became active in 2000 when his minor daughter was raped: therein begun the protracted struggle of the dalits for self dignity and human rights against Jat landlords, in this case, backed by the ruling Congress regime in the state. Punjab's huge dalit population has been fighting a running battle for land, wages and fundamental rights against the landlords, who control land and political power. The rapists were given life sentence in 2002. On January 5, 2006, Sarpanch Jaswant Singh and former Sarpanch Niranjan Singh of Jhabbar village allegedly conspired a brutal attack on Bant Singh as revenge, according to the CPI(ML). The party has alleged that a critically injured Bant Singh was left for 36 hours in the Mansa Civil Hospital, while the hospital authorities, influenced by Congress leaders, refused him treatment. Eventually, he was taken to the PGI in Chandigarh, where both his arms and one leg had to be amputated because gangrene had set in. He is still fighting for his life, but says, "I have my voice, they can't stop my songs."___assam mailing listassam@assamnet.orghttp://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.orgUmesh Sharma5121 Lackawanna STCollege Park, MD 20740 1-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone]Ed.M. - International Education PolicyHarvard Graduate School of Education,Harvard University,Class of 2005 Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
Ram, I rang up Tilok Daktor this morning--to wish him a happy NY and the routine you know? While at it I asked him how to persuade people like you, Rajen etc., the inquisitors, who cannot see anything good even in the face of a god if it does not come wrapped in the 'tirongo'. He suggested I ask you to do a little role playing, albeit a nasty role. Said, Rajen could use it too. Play the Devil's advocate, and try to see what I proposed from the proponents' side and examine if there is any positive outcome at all possible. But why should they, I challenged him? The good Goru Daktor said that it is for upholding one's integrity as an intellectually endowed person looking out for the best of their fellow men in Assam, regardless of where the chips may fall. For they like to see themselves and portray themselves not as PARTISANS to a PRE-DETERMINED political persuasion, but as honest well-wishers and do-gooders. That is why. That was a mouthful. To tell you the truth I had no idea he could say those things. Remember, he is a Jokaisukiya? And a Goru Daktor at that for goshs' sakes! But I was impressed and persuaded that he might have a point. That it might be something to try. After all, what is there to lose? I lost most everything anyway - trust, credibility, loyalty, Indian patriotism, fealty to democratic ideals and tarred and feathered with Communism, Pol-potism, and freedom-robbing ! What is left? Just the shirt on my back and an internet connection to bring displeasures to so many good people, day-in and day out! So go at it Ram. Try it if you can. And see if you can hold up your own intelligence here with integrity for all to see. Examine if it will do any good. :-). c-da At 2:40 PM -0600 12/31/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da, *** How about a REAL democracy? That is what *MY* dream for Assam envisions. That is very admirable, and we all want that too. The questions that arise though would be: (a) is it feasible (b) and who, in an independent Assam, will ensure that 'real democracy' will exist - given that the Indians have taught the indigenous people all the wrong stuff. (c) or will this be just a dream and ulimately we will settle for an India-like 'debased, dysfunctional desi-demokrasy' and life goes on. --Ram ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
*** How about a REAL democracy? That is what *MY* dream for Assam envisions There is another alternative which your Tilok Daktor forgot to tell you. That is, who is Ram and Rajen and others to hold you from your ambitious plan? Why even try to persuade the inquissitors? It is like, what we say in Assamese: Obujonok bujuwa, bwle dherua tharik xijuwa. Don't listen to these damn nay Sayers. They donot see anything good coming out of the Mahantas anyway. What is holding you? Just ignore them. Ask them to go to hell. Snatch Assam from these ugly Indians andgo for REAL DEMOCRACY in Assam? That is the only way. Jwr puri hat palehi. India is going down the drain anyway. I would say, it is the best of times for enlightened Assam to do an show the world when India is almost like leaderless and donot know what it is doing. JOI AI OXOM Notun Bosoror Xubhes.sare! RB - Original Message - From: "Chan Mahanta" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Ram Sarangapani" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [Assam] From Tehelka Ram, I rang up Tilok Daktor this morning--to wish him a happy NY and the routine you know? While at it I asked him how to persuade people like you, Rajen etc., the inquisitors, who cannot see anything good even in the face of a god if it does not come wrapped in the 'tirongo'. He suggested I ask you to do a little role playing, albeit a nasty role. Said, Rajen could use it too. Play the Devil's advocate, and try to see what I proposed from the proponents' side and examine if there is any positive outcome at all possible. But why should they, I challenged him? The good Goru Daktor said that it is for upholding one's integrity as an intellectually endowed person looking out for the best of their fellow men in Assam, regardless of where the chips may fall. For they like to see themselves and portray themselves not as PARTISANS to a PRE-DETERMINED political persuasion, but as honest well-wishers and do-gooders. That is why. That was a mouthful. To tell you the truth I had no idea he could say those things. Remember, he is a Jokaisukiya? And a Goru Daktor at that for goshs' sakes! But I was impressed and persuaded that he might have a point. That it might be something to try. After all, what is there to lose? I lost most everything anyway - trust, credibility, loyalty, Indian patriotism, fealty to democratic ideals and tarred and feathered with Communism, Pol-potism, and freedom-robbing ! What is left? Just the shirt on my back and an internet connection to bring displeasures to so many good people, day-in and day out! So go at it Ram. Try it if you can. And see if you can hold up your own intelligence here with integrity for all to see. Examine if it will do any good. :-). c-da At 2:40 PM -0600 12/31/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da, *** How about a REAL democracy? That is what *MY* dream for Assam envisions. That is very admirable, and we all want that too. The questions that arise though would be: (a) is it feasible (b) and who, in an independent Assam, will ensure that 'real democracy' will exist - given that the Indians have taught the indigenous people all the wrong stuff. (c) or will this be just a dream and ulimately we will settle for an India-like 'debased, dysfunctional desi-demokrasy' and life goes on. --Ram ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
C'da, I rang up Tilok Daktor this morning--to wish him a happy NY and theroutine you know? How is the good Daktor? My best wishes to him too in these trying times. He suggested I ask you to do a little role playing, albeit a nastyrole. Said, Rajen could use it too. Play the Devil's advocate I was afraid of this - these are sure signs of senility setting in. The Daktor is perhaps unaware that we have been playing this unsavory role for many years now (an that too at his suggestion)and it has has little or no effect on the intellectuals of Assamnet. I would guess, it is our fault - we are really 'no good' advocates. One way for a good advocate may beis to acquiesce to the interminable barrage of 'pie-in-sky' theories to Assam's problems. The good Goru Daktor said that it is for upholding one's integrity asan intellectually endowed person looking out for the best of theirfellow men in Assam, regardless ofwhere the chips may fall.For they like to see themselves and portray themselves not as PARTISANSto a PRE-DETERMINED political persuasion, but as honest well-wishersand do-gooders. That is why. At last, an area I can readily agree with. All is not lost. Of course, the Daktor is referring to those brave souls who want to take Assam on a runaway train headed toward total destruction. Independence at any cost - even self-destruction. So go at it Ram. Try it if you can. And see if you can hold up yourown intelligence here with integrity for all to see. Examine if itwill do any good I am embarrassed. Intellectual acquity is not one of my strong suites. I try hard, but its still elusive. You have too much faith in me. As for integrity, I would submit its all in the eyes of some beholders.Some maytry to equate integrity with acquiescence (when convenient). :):) --Ram On 1/1/06, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ram,I rang up Tilok Daktor this morning--to wish him a happy NY and theroutine you know? While at it I asked him how to persuade people like you, Rajen etc., the inquisitors, who cannot see anything good evenin the face of a god if it does not come wrapped in the 'tirongo'.He suggested I ask you to do a little role playing, albeit a nastyrole. Said, Rajen could use it too. Play the Devil's advocate, and try to see what I proposed from the proponents' side and examine ifthere is any positive outcome at all possible.But why should they, I challenged him?The good Goru Daktor said that it is for upholding one's integrity as an intellectually endowed person looking out for the best of theirfellow men in Assam, regardless ofwhere the chips may fall. Forthey like to see themselves and portray themselves not as PARTISANSto a PRE-DETERMINED political persuasion, but as honest well-wishers and do-gooders. That is why.That was a mouthful. To tell you the truth I had no idea he could saythose things. Remember, he is a Jokaisukiya? And a Goru Daktor atthat for goshs' sakes!But I was impressed and persuaded that he might have a point. That it might be something to try. After all, what is there to lose? I lostmost everything anyway - trust, credibility, loyalty, Indianpatriotism, fealty to democratic ideals and tarred and feathered withCommunism, Pol-potism, and freedom-robbing ! What is left? Just the shirt on my back and an internet connection to bring displeasures toso many good people, day-in and day out!So go at it Ram. Try it if you can. And see if you can hold up yourown intelligence here with integrity for all to see. Examine if it will do any good.:-).c-daAt 2:40 PM -0600 12/31/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote:C'da,*** How about a REAL democracy? That is what *MY* dream for Assam envisions. That is very admirable, and we all want that too. The questions thatarise though would be:(a) is it feasible(b) and who, in an independent Assam, will ensure that 'real democracy'will exist - given that the Indians have taught theindigenous people all the wrong stuff.(c) or will this be just a dream and ulimately we will settle for anIndia-like 'debased, dysfunctional desi-demokrasy' and life goes on. --Ram ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
C'da, Tehelka does brings up issues we normally gloss over and these are poignant issues. The numbers are mind-boggling -- '320 million going hungry' even for a population of 1.2 billion. It is saddening. But, we have to recognize that India has come a long way - since the great Bihar famine of '67-'68. Today, the problem with foodgrains is more of a question of mal-distribution and corruption than anything else. Rates of growth may not tell the whole picture, but it is a strong indicator of how things are faring. How else would you quantify progress? By counting how many died of hunger? These numbers thrown in by Tehelka really do not give sources ( except to say from experts). The bottomline though is even with these numbers, some states are better able to cope with such problems than others. For the hard working, honest, poor people who run the unorganised sector of India's neo-liberalised cities, and serve elite households as domestic and skilled workers, it was yet another signal that this democracy does not belong to them. OK, then are we to assume that this is the basis for the separatist movement in Assam? Are the separatists fighting for the poor and downtroden of Assam (as opposed to the middle and upper classes of Assam). C'da, I agree that there are lots of problems in India - specially when we consider the plight of poor people. Would some other system (other than a democracy) work, so that the poor can be brought into the mainstream? What is the alternate form of Govt? And can those who propose some other form of governance guarantee that there will be no one dying of hunger, that the poor, hardworking will be cared for, and that the rich and powerful DO NOT get all the benefits at the expense of the poor? One would like to get answers for these - be it in the case of India or an independent Assam. --Ram On 12/30/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Try this for growth Ram. 5 ISSUES THAT REMAINED BURIED ( Tehelka) 1 } RIGHT TO FOOD The republic of hunger A country that has 70 percent of the population depending upon agriculture for its livelihood and where rats eat a major portion of the foodgrain in its overflowing godowns (60 million tonnes last year), has 320 million people going to bed without food and 10,000 dying of hunger-related pangs every day, as experts point out. Ninety-nine percent of adivasi families in Jharkhand and Rajasthan are facing chronic hunger this year. Also, 2005 hasn't been good for the farmer, ironically, under the upa regime that claims to stand for the aam aadmi. At least 250 farmers committed suicide in Yavatmal in Vidarbha, Maharashtra this year alone. In the past five years the region has seen 850 suicides by farmers. Ninety-three percent of the suicides reported were due to overriding debts. Since 1997, 25,000 farmers have committed suicides across India - 4,500 in Andhra Pradesh alone, while thousands of children have died in Melghat/Nandurbar in Maharashtra due to malnutrition and absence of administrative support. The right to food remains elusive for millions of Indians but the establishment remains as cold-blooded as ever. 2 } UNORGANISED WORKERS One Gurgaon too many They constitute 90 percent of the labour force in India, but they have no unions, no rights, no social safety nets, no provident fund, no pension, no job security, no schools or health centres for their children, no future or hope. Instead, they are the eternal victims of the latest profit-making ventures of the Indian and mnc fat cats: retrenchment, contract labour, ad hoc and low wages, mass sacking. And if they protest, they are brutally assaulted, as the cops did with the workers in Gurgaon: globalisation's latest glam doll. 3 } STREET KIDS Death of a newspaper boy They have black eyes and smiles which spread like sunshine: but their hands have shrivelled, and so have their bodies, and they are out there in the cold, homeless, imagined communities of an imagined homeland. Street kids: they work at the traffic crossings, as child labourers, ragpickers, hounded by the police, brutalised, packed in ugly, perverse juvenile homes, even adult prisons, left to die in a democracy where President Kalam says that the children are the future of the nation. Which children? Of which country? 4 } FEMALE FOETICIDE One by one they went away The longing for the male child and scorn for the girl in India has drastically increased in the last decade, more so in prosperous parts of the country. Rich states like Punjab, Haryana and Gujarat, among others, witnessed a drastic decline in the child sex ratio from 900 girls for every 1000 boys in 1991 to less than 8oo girls in 2001. Fatehgarh Sahib, a district in Punjab, has the lowest child sex ratio with 754 girls for every 1,000 boys. In Haryana's Kurukshetra district, the child sex ratio has fallen from 860 girls to just 770. In Rajkot, the decline was from
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
C'da, I agree that there are lots of problems in India - specially when we consider the plight of poor people. Would some other system (other than a democracy) work, so that the poor can be brought into the mainstream? *** How about a REAL democracy? That is what *MY* dream for Assam envisions. And it would be NOTHING like the debased, dysfunctional desi-demokrasy. At 1:23 PM -0600 12/31/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da, Tehelka does brings up issues we normally gloss over and these are poignant issues. The numbers are mind-boggling -- '320 million going hungry' even for a population of 1.2 billion. It is saddening. But, we have to recognize that India has come a long way - since the great Bihar famine of '67-'68. Today, the problem with foodgrains is more of a question of mal-distribution and corruption than anything else. Rates of growth may not tell the whole picture, but it is a strong indicator of how things are faring. How else would you quantify progress? By counting how many died of hunger? These numbers thrown in by Tehelka really do not give sources ( except to say from experts). The bottomline though is even with these numbers, some states are better able to cope with such problems than others. For the hard working, honest, poor people who run the unorganised sector of India's neo-liberalised cities, and serve elite households as domestic and skilled workers, it was yet another signal that this democracy does not belong to them. OK, then are we to assume that this is the basis for the separatist movement in Assam? Are the separatists fighting for the poor and downtroden of Assam (as opposed to the middle and upper classes of Assam). C'da, I agree that there are lots of problems in India - specially when we consider the plight of poor people. Would some other system (other than a democracy) work, so that the poor can be brought into the mainstream? What is the alternate form of Govt? And can those who propose some other form of governance guarantee that there will be no one dying of hunger, that the poor, hardworking will be cared for, and that the rich and powerful DO NOT get all the benefits at the expense of the poor? One would like to get answers for these - be it in the case of India or an independent Assam. --Ram On 12/30/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Try this for growth Ram. 5 ISSUES THAT REMAINED BURIED ( Tehelka) 1 } RIGHT TO FOOD The republic of hunger A country that has 70 percent of the population depending upon agriculture for its livelihood and where rats eat a major portion of the foodgrain in its overflowing godowns (60 million tonnes last year), has 320 million people going to bed without food and 10,000 dying of hunger-related pangs every day, as experts point out. Ninety-nine percent of adivasi families in Jharkhand and Rajasthan are facing chronic hunger this year. Also, 2005 hasn't been good for the farmer, ironically, under the upa regime that claims to stand for the aam aadmi. At least 250 farmers committed suicide in Yavatmal in Vidarbha, Maharashtra this year alone. In the past five years the region has seen 850 suicides by farmers. Ninety-three percent of the suicides reported were due to overriding debts. Since 1997, 25,000 farmers have committed suicides across India - 4,500 in Andhra Pradesh alone, while thousands of children have died in Melghat/Nandurbar in Maharashtra due to malnutrition and absence of administrative support. The right to food remains elusive for millions of Indians but the establishment remains as cold-blooded as ever. 2 } UNORGANISED WORKERS One Gurgaon too many They constitute 90 percent of the labour force in India, but they have no unions, no rights, no social safety nets, no provident fund, no pension, no job security, no schools or health centres for their children, no future or hope. Instead, they are the eternal victims of the latest profit-making ventures of the Indian and mnc fat cats: retrenchment, contract labour, ad hoc and low wages, mass sacking. And if they protest, they are brutally assaulted, as the cops did with the workers in Gurgaon: globalisation's latest glam doll. 3 } STREET KIDS Death of a newspaper boy They have black eyes and smiles which spread like sunshine: but their hands have shrivelled, and so have their bodies, and they are out there in the cold, homeless, imagined communities of an imagined homeland. Street kids: they work at the traffic crossings, as child labourers, ragpickers, hounded by the police, brutalised, packed in ugly, perverse juvenile homes, even adult prisons, left to die in a democracy where President Kalam says that the children are the future of the nation. Which children? Of which country? 4 } FEMALE FOETICIDE One by one they went away The longing for the male child and scorn for the girl in India has drastically increased in the last
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
C'da, *** How about a REAL democracy? That is what *MY* dream for Assam envisions. That is very admirable, and we all want that too. The questions that arise though would be: (a) is it feasible (b) and who, in an independent Assam, will ensure that 'real democracy' will exist - given that the Indians have taught the indigenous people all the wrong stuff. (c) or will this be just a dream and ulimately we will settle for an India-like 'debased, dysfunctional desi-demokrasy' and life goes on. --Ram On 12/31/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: C'da, I agree that there are lots of problems in India - specially when we consider the plight of poor people. Would some other system (other than a democracy) work, so that the poor can be brought into the mainstream? *** How about a REAL democracy? That is what *MY* dream for Assam envisions. And it would be NOTHING like the debased, dysfunctional desi-demokrasy. At 1:23 PM -0600 12/31/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da, Tehelka does brings up issues we normally gloss over and these are poignant issues. The numbers are mind-boggling -- '320 million going hungry' even for a population of 1.2 billion. It is saddening. But, we have to recognize that India has come a long way - since the great Bihar famine of '67-'68. Today, the problem with foodgrains is more of a question of mal-distribution and corruption than anything else. Rates of growth may not tell the whole picture, but it is a strong indicator of how things are faring. How else would you quantify progress? By counting how many died of hunger? These numbers thrown in by Tehelka really do not give sources ( except to say from experts). The bottomline though is even with these numbers, some states are better able to cope with such problems than others. For the hard working, honest, poor people who run the unorganised sector of India's neo-liberalised cities, and serve elite households as domestic and skilled workers, it was yet another signal that this democracy does not belong to them. OK, then are we to assume that this is the basis for the separatist movement in Assam? Are the separatists fighting for the poor and downtroden of Assam (as opposed to the middle and upper classes of Assam). C'da, I agree that there are lots of problems in India - specially when we consider the plight of poor people. Would some other system (other than a democracy) work, so that the poor can be brought into the mainstream? What is the alternate form of Govt? And can those who propose some other form of governance guarantee that there will be no one dying of hunger, that the poor, hardworking will be cared for, and that the rich and powerful DO NOT get all the benefits at the expense of the poor? One would like to get answers for these - be it in the case of India or an independent Assam. --Ram On 12/30/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Try this for growth Ram. 5 ISSUES THAT REMAINED BURIED ( Tehelka) 1 } RIGHT TO FOOD The republic of hunger A country that has 70 percent of the population depending upon agriculture for its livelihood and where rats eat a major portion of the foodgrain in its overflowing godowns (60 million tonnes last year), has 320 million people going to bed without food and 10,000 dying of hunger-related pangs every day, as experts point out. Ninety-nine percent of adivasi families in Jharkhand and Rajasthan are facing chronic hunger this year. Also, 2005 hasn't been good for the farmer, ironically, under the upa regime that claims to stand for the aam aadmi. At least 250 farmers committed suicide in Yavatmal in Vidarbha, Maharashtra this year alone. In the past five years the region has seen 850 suicides by farmers. Ninety-three percent of the suicides reported were due to overriding debts. Since 1997, 25,000 farmers have committed suicides across India - 4,500 in Andhra Pradesh alone, while thousands of children have died in Melghat/Nandurbar in Maharashtra due to malnutrition and absence of administrative support. The right to food remains elusive for millions of Indians but the establishment remains as cold-blooded as ever. 2 } UNORGANISED WORKERS One Gurgaon too many They constitute 90 percent of the labour force in India, but they have no unions, no rights, no social safety nets, no provident fund, no pension, no job security, no schools or health centres for their children, no future or hope. Instead, they are the eternal victims of the latest profit-making ventures of the Indian and mnc fat cats: retrenchment, contract labour, ad hoc and low wages, mass sacking. And if they protest, they are brutally assaulted, as the cops did with the workers in Gurgaon: globalisation's latest glam doll. 3 } STREET KIDS Death of a newspaper boy They have black eyes and
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
I think Tehelka is doing a great job in highlighting issues which are not being addressed or where problems lie - but it only identifies the symptoms -and offers little diagnosis and no cures.UmeshRam Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: C'da, *** How about a REAL democracy? That is what *MY* dream for Assam envisions.That is very admirable, and we all want that too. The questions thatarise though would be:(a) is it feasible(b) and who, in an independent Assam, will ensure that 'realdemocracy' will exist - given that the Indians have taught theindigenous people all the wrong stuff.(c) or will this be just a dream and ulimately we will settle for anIndia-like 'debased, dysfunctional desi-demokrasy' and life goes on.--RamOn 12/31/05, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: C'da, I agree that there are lots of problems in India - specially when we consider the plight of poor people. Would some other system (other than a democracy) work, so that the poor can be brought into the mainstream? *** How about a REAL democracy? That is what *MY* dream for Assam envisions. And it would be NOTHING like the debased, dysfunctional desi-demokrasy. At 1:23 PM -0600 12/31/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da, Tehelka does brings up issues we normally gloss over and these are poignant issues. The numbers are mind-boggling -- '320 million going hungry' even for a population of 1.2 billion. It is saddening. But, we have to recognize that India has come a long way - since the great Bihar famine of '67-'68. Today, the problem with foodgrains is more of a question of mal-distribution and corruption than anything else. Rates of growth may not tell the whole picture, but it is a strong indicator of how things are faring. How else would you quantify progress? By counting how many died of hunger? These numbers thrown in by Tehelka really do not give sources ( except to say from experts). The bottomline though is even with these numbers, some states are better able to cope with such problems than others. For the hard working, honest, poor people who run the unorganised sector of India's neo-liberalised cities, and serve elite households as domestic and skilled workers, it was yet another signal that this democracy does not belong to them. OK, then are we to assume that this is the basis for the separatist movement in Assam? Are the separatists fighting for the poor and downtroden of Assam (as opposed to the middle and upper classes of Assam). C'da, I agree that there are lots of problems in India - specially when we consider the plight of poor people. Would some other system (other than a democracy) work, so that the poor can be brought into the mainstream? What is the alternate form of Govt? And can those who propose some other form of governance guarantee that there will be no one dying of hunger, that the poor, hardworking will be cared for, and that the rich and powerful DO NOT get all the benefits at the expense of the poor? One would like to get answers for these - be it in the case of India or an independent Assam. --RamOn 12/30/05, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Try this for growth Ram.5 ISSUES THAT REMAINED BURIED ( Tehelka) 1 } RIGHT TO FOOD The republic of hunger A country that has 70 percent of the population depending upon agriculture for its livelihood and where rats eat a major portion of the foodgrain in its overflowing godowns (60 million tonnes last year), has 320 million people going to bed without food and 10,000 dying of hunger-related pangs every day, as experts point out. Ninety-nine percent of adivasi families in Jharkhand and Rajasthan are facing chronic hunger this year. Also, 2005 hasn't been good for the farmer, ironically, under the upa regime that claims to stand for the aam aadmi. At least 250 farmers committed suicide in Yavatmal in Vidarbha, Maharashtra this year alone. In the past five years the region has seen 850 suicides by farmers. Ninety-three percent of the suicides reported were due to overriding debts. Since 1997, 25,000 farmers have committed suicides across India - 4,500 in Andhra Pradesh alone, while thousands of children have died in Melghat/Nandurbar in Maharashtra due to malnutrition and absence of administrative support. The right to food remains elusive for millions of Indians but the establishment remains as cold-blooded as ever.2 } UNORGANISED WORKERS One Gurgaon too many They constitute 90 percent of the labour force in India, but they have no unions, no rights, no social safety nets, no provident fund, no pension, no job security, no schools or health centres for their children, no future or hope. Instead, they are the eternal victims of the latest profit-making ventures of the Indian and mnc fat cats: retrenchment, contract labour, ad hoc and low wages, mass sacking. And if they protest, they are brutally assaulted, as the cops did with the workers in Gurgaon: globalisation's latest glam doll.
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
What are the great Hindu intellectuals doing about it? If you can't-say ' I give up' and let the"Foreign" Muslims do it . mm From:umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To:Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED], Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]CC:assam@assamnet.orgSubject:Re: [Assam] From TehelkaDate:Sat, 31 Dec 2005 21:10:52 + (GMT) I think Tehelka is doing a great job in highlighting issues which are not being addressed or where problems lie - but it only identifies the symptoms -and offers little diagnosis and no cures. UmeshRam Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: C'da, *** How about a REAL democracy? That is what *MY* dream for Assam envisions.That is very admirable, and we all want that too. The questions thatarise though would be:(a) is it feasible(b) and who, in an independent Assam, will ensure that 'realdemocracy' will exist - given that the Indians have taught theindigenous people all the wrong stuff.(c) or will this be just a dream and ulimately we will settle for anIndia-like 'debased, dysfunctional desi-demokrasy' and life goes on.--RamOn 12/31/05, Chan Mahanta wrote: C'da, I agree that there are lots of problems in India - specially when we consider the plight of poor people. Would some other system (other than a democracy) work, so that the poor can be brought into the mainstream? *** How about a REAL democracy? That is what *MY* dream for Assam envisions. And it would be NOTHING like the debased, dysfunctional desi-demokrasy. At 1:23 PM -0600 12/31/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da, Tehelka does brings up issues we normally gloss over and these are poignant issues. The numbers are mind-boggling -- '320 million going hungry' even for a population of 1.2 billion. It is saddening. But, we have to recognize that India has come a long way - since the great Bihar famine of '67-'68. Today, the problem with foodgrains is more of a question of mal-distribution and corruption than anything else. Rates of growth may not tell the whole picture, but it is a strong indicator of how things are faring. How else would you quantify progress? By counting how many died of hunger? These numbers thrown in by Tehelka really do not give sources ( except to say from experts). The bottomline though is even with these numbers, some states are better able to cope with such problems than others. For the hard working, honest, poor people who run the unorganised sector of India's neo-liberalised cities, and serve elite households as domestic and skilled workers, it was yet another signal that this democracy does not belong to them. OK, then are we to assume that this is the basis for the separatist movement in Assam? Are the separatists fighting for the poor and downtroden of Assam (as opposed to the middle and upper classes of Assam). C'da, I agree that there are lots of problems in India - specially when we consider the plight of poor people. Would some other system (other than a democracy) work, so that the poor can be brought into the mainstream? What is the alternate form of Govt? And can those who propose some other form of governance guarantee that there will be no one dying of hunger, that the poor, hardworking will be cared for, and that the rich and powerful DO NOT get all the benefits at the expense of the poor? One would like to get answers for these - be it in the case of India or an independent Assam. --RamOn 12/30/05, Chan Mahanta wrote: Try this for growth Ram.5 ISSUES THAT REMAINED BURIED ( Tehelka) 1 } RIGHT TO FOOD The republic of hunger A country that has 70 percent of the population depending upon agriculture for its livelihood and where rats eat a major portion of the foodgrain in its overflowing godowns (60 million tonnes last year), has 320 million people going to bed without food and 10,000 dying of hunger-related pangs every day, as experts point out. Ninety-nine percent of adivasi families in Jharkhand and Rajasthan are facing chronic hunger this year. Also, 2005 hasn't been good for the farmer, ironically, under the upa regime that claims to stand for the aam aadmi. At least 250 farmers committed suicide in Yavatmal in Vidarbha, Maharashtra this year alone. In the past five years the region has seen 850 suicides by farmers. Ninety-three percent of the suicides reported were due to overriding debts. Since 1997, 25,000 farmers have committed suicides across India - 4,500 in Andhra Pradesh alone, while thousands of children have died in Melghat/Nandurbar in Maharashtra due to malnutrition and absence of administrative support. The right to food remains elusive for millions of Indians but the establishment remains as cold-blooded as ever.2 } UNORGANISED WORKERS One Gurgaon too many They constitute 90 percent of the labour force in India, but they have no unions, no rights, no social safety nets, no provident fund, no pension, no job security, no schools or health centres for their children, no future or
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
A country that has 320 million people going to bed without food and 10,000 dying of hunger-related pangs every day, as experts point out. Ninety-nine percent of adivasi families in Jharkhand and Rajasthan are facing chronic hunger this year. At least 250 farmers committed suicide in Yavatmal in Vidarbha, Maharashtra this year alone. In the past five years the region has seen 850 suicides by farmers. Ninety-three percent of the suicides reported were due to overriding debts. Since 1997, 25,000 farmers have committed suicides across India - 4,500 in Andhra Pradesh alone, while thousands of children have died in Melghat/Nandurbar in Maharashtra due to malnutrition and absence of administrative support. The above gloomy picture for rest of India, actually draws a rosy picture for Assam. Hey Assam, what is your problem? RB - Original Message - From: "Chan Mahanta" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Ram Sarangapani" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 9:17 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] From Tehelka Try this for growth Ram. 5 ISSUES THAT REMAINED BURIED ( Tehelka) 1 } RIGHT TO FOOD The republic of hunger A country that has 70 percent of the population depending upon agriculture for its livelihood and where rats eat a major portion of the foodgrain in its overflowing godowns (60 million tonnes last year), has 320 million people going to bed without food and 10,000 dying of hunger-related pangs every day, as experts point out. Ninety-nine percent of adivasi families in Jharkhand and Rajasthan are facing chronic hunger this year. Also, 2005 hasn't been good for the farmer, ironically, under the upa regime that claims to stand for the aam aadmi. At least 250 farmers committed suicide in Yavatmal in Vidarbha, Maharashtra this year alone. In the past five years the region has seen 850 suicides by farmers. Ninety-three percent of the suicides reported were due to overriding debts. Since 1997, 25,000 farmers have committed suicides across India - 4,500 in Andhra Pradesh alone, while thousands of children have died in Melghat/Nandurbar in Maharashtra due to malnutrition and absence of administrative support. The right to food remains elusive for millions of Indians but the establishment remains as cold-blooded as ever. 2 } UNORGANISED WORKERS One Gurgaon too many They constitute 90 percent of the labour force in India, but they have no unions, no rights, no social safety nets, no provident fund, no pension, no job security, no schools or health centres for their children, no future or hope. Instead, they are the eternal victims of the latest profit-making ventures of the Indian and mnc fat cats: retrenchment, contract labour, ad hoc and low wages, mass sacking. And if they protest, they are brutally assaulted, as the cops did with the workers in Gurgaon: globalisation's latest glam doll. 3 } STREET KIDS Death of a newspaper boy They have black eyes and smiles which spread like sunshine: but their hands have shrivelled, and so have their bodies, and they are out there in the cold, homeless, imagined communities of an imagined homeland. Street kids: they work at the traffic crossings, as child labourers, ragpickers, hounded by the police, brutalised, packed in ugly, perverse juvenile homes, even adult prisons, left to die in a democracy where President Kalam says that the children are the future of the nation. Which children? Of which country? 4 } FEMALE FOETICIDE One by one they went away The longing for the male child and scorn for the girl in India has drastically increased in the last decade, more so in prosperous parts of the country. Rich states like Punjab, Haryana and Gujarat, among others, witnessed a drastic decline in the child sex ratio from 900 girls for every 1000 boys in 1991 to less than 8oo girls in 2001. Fatehgarh Sahib, a district in Punjab, has the lowest child sex ratio with 754 girls for every 1,000 boys. In Haryana's Kurukshetra district, the child sex ratio has fallen from 860 girls to just 770. In Rajkot, the decline was from 914 in 1991 to 844 in 2001. Posh southwest Delhi shows an abysmal child sex ratio of less than 845 girls. In the last 10 years, 70 districts in 16 states and union territories have recorded a 50-point plus decline in the sex ratio. The ratio has gone down to 800 girls for every 1,000 boys. Amniocentesis, originally intended as a prenatal test, is now widely used, illegally, to determine the sex of the foetus and abort it if it happens to be female. But the medical and political apparatus doesn't care. 5 } RIGHT TO SHELTER It's a rich man's world When the Congress-ncp government in Maharashtra tied its laces for the ridiculously ambitious plan of turning Mumbai into Shanghai, slums were the first casualty: 90,000 people marooned and their homes bulldozed. The poor
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
FYI Tehelka has some Hindus too. Others like you perhaps seem to be trying hard as well. Happy New Year Mukul-da!!Umeshmc mahant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:What are the great Hindu intellectuals doing about it? If you can't-say ' I give up' and let the"Foreign" Muslims do it . mm From:umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To:Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED], Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]CC:assam@assamnet.orgSubject:Re: [Assam] From TehelkaDate:Sat, 31 Dec 2005 21:10:52 + (GMT)I think Tehelka is doing a great job in highlighting issues which are not being addressed or where problems lie - but it only identifies the symptoms -and offers little diagnosis and no cures. UmeshRam Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: C'da, *** How about a REAL democracy? That is what *MY* dream for Assam envisions.That is very admirable, and we all want that too. The questions thatarise though would be:(a) is it feasible(b) and who, in an independent Assam, will ensure that 'realdemocracy' will exist - given that the Indians have taught theindigenous people all the wrong stuff.(c) or will this be just a dream and ulimately we will settle for anIndia-like 'debased, dysfunctional desi-demokrasy' and life goes on.--RamOn 12/31/05, Chan Mahanta wrote: C'da, I agree that there are lots of problems in India - specially when we consider the plight of poor people. Would some other system (other than a democracy) work, so that the poor can be brought into the mainstream? *** How about a REAL democracy? That is what *MY* dream for Assam envisions. And it would be NOTHING like the debased, dysfunctional desi-demokrasy. At 1:23 PM -0600 12/31/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da, Tehelka does brings up issues we normally gloss over and these are poignant issues. The numbers are mind-boggling -- '320 million going hungry' even for a population of 1.2 billion. It is saddening. But, we have to recognize that India has come a long way - since the great Bihar famine of '67-'68. Today, the problem with foodgrains is more of a question of mal-distribution and corruption than anything else. Rates of growth may not tell the whole picture, but it is a strong indicator of how things are faring. How else would you quantify progress? By counting how many died of hunger? These numbers thrown in by Tehelka really do not give sources ( except to say from experts). The bottomline though is even with these numbers, some states are better able to cope with such problems than others. For the hard working, honest, poor people who run the unorganised sector of India's neo-liberalised cities, and serve elite households as domestic and skilled workers, it was yet another signal that this democracy does not belong to them. OK, then are we to assume that this is the basis for the separatist movement in Assam? Are the separatists fighting for the poor and downtroden of Assam (as opposed to the middle and upper classes of Assam). C'da, I agree that there are lots of problems in India - specially when we consider the plight of poor people. Would some other system (other than a democracy) work, so that the poor can be brought into the mainstream? What is the alternate form of Govt? And can those who propose some other form of governance guarantee that there will be no one dying of hunger, that the poor, hardworking will be cared for, and that the rich and powerful DO NOT get all the benefits at the expense of the poor? One would like to get answers for these - be it in the case of India or an independent Assam. --RamOn 12/30/05, Chan Mahanta wrote: Try this for growth Ram.5 ISSUES THAT REMAINED BURIED ( Tehelka) 1 } RIGHT TO FOOD The republic of hunger A country that has 70 percent of the population depending upon agriculture for its livelihood and where rats eat a major portion of the foodgrain in its overflowing godowns (60 million tonnes last year), has 320 million people going to bed without food and 10,000 dying of hunger-related pangs every day, as experts point out.Ninety-nine percent of adivasi families in Jharkhand and Rajasthan are facing chronic hunger this year. Also, 2005 hasn't been good for the farmer, ironically, under the upa regime that claims to stand for the aam aadmi. At least 250 farmers committed suicide in Yavatmal in Vidarbha, Maharashtra this year alone. In the past five years the region has seen 850 suicides by farmers. Ninety-three percent of the suicides reported were due to overriding debts. Since 1997, 25,000 farmers have committed suicides across India - 4,500 in Andhra Pradesh alone, while thousands of children have died in Melghat/Nandurbar in Maharashtra due to malnutrition and absence of administrative support. The right to food remains elusive for millions of Indians but the establishment remains as cold-blooded as ever.2 } UNORGANISED WORKERS One Gurgaon too many They constitute 90 percent of
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
Try this for growth Ram. 5 ISSUES THAT REMAINED BURIED ( Tehelka) 1 } RIGHT TO FOOD The republic of hunger A country that has 70 percent of the population depending upon agriculture for its livelihood and where rats eat a major portion of the foodgrain in its overflowing godowns (60 million tonnes last year), has 320 million people going to bed without food and 10,000 dying of hunger-related pangs every day, as experts point out. Ninety-nine percent of adivasi families in Jharkhand and Rajasthan are facing chronic hunger this year. Also, 2005 hasn't been good for the farmer, ironically, under the upa regime that claims to stand for the aam aadmi. At least 250 farmers committed suicide in Yavatmal in Vidarbha, Maharashtra this year alone. In the past five years the region has seen 850 suicides by farmers. Ninety-three percent of the suicides reported were due to overriding debts. Since 1997, 25,000 farmers have committed suicides across India - 4,500 in Andhra Pradesh alone, while thousands of children have died in Melghat/Nandurbar in Maharashtra due to malnutrition and absence of administrative support. The right to food remains elusive for millions of Indians but the establishment remains as cold-blooded as ever. 2 } UNORGANISED WORKERS One Gurgaon too many They constitute 90 percent of the labour force in India, but they have no unions, no rights, no social safety nets, no provident fund, no pension, no job security, no schools or health centres for their children, no future or hope. Instead, they are the eternal victims of the latest profit-making ventures of the Indian and mnc fat cats: retrenchment, contract labour, ad hoc and low wages, mass sacking. And if they protest, they are brutally assaulted, as the cops did with the workers in Gurgaon: globalisation's latest glam doll. 3 } STREET KIDS Death of a newspaper boy They have black eyes and smiles which spread like sunshine: but their hands have shrivelled, and so have their bodies, and they are out there in the cold, homeless, imagined communities of an imagined homeland. Street kids: they work at the traffic crossings, as child labourers, ragpickers, hounded by the police, brutalised, packed in ugly, perverse juvenile homes, even adult prisons, left to die in a democracy where President Kalam says that the children are the future of the nation. Which children? Of which country? 4 } FEMALE FOETICIDE One by one they went away The longing for the male child and scorn for the girl in India has drastically increased in the last decade, more so in prosperous parts of the country. Rich states like Punjab, Haryana and Gujarat, among others, witnessed a drastic decline in the child sex ratio from 900 girls for every 1000 boys in 1991 to less than 8oo girls in 2001. Fatehgarh Sahib, a district in Punjab, has the lowest child sex ratio with 754 girls for every 1,000 boys. In Haryana's Kurukshetra district, the child sex ratio has fallen from 860 girls to just 770. In Rajkot, the decline was from 914 in 1991 to 844 in 2001. Posh southwest Delhi shows an abysmal child sex ratio of less than 845 girls. In the last 10 years, 70 districts in 16 states and union territories have recorded a 50-point plus decline in the sex ratio. The ratio has gone down to 800 girls for every 1,000 boys. Amniocentesis, originally intended as a prenatal test, is now widely used, illegally, to determine the sex of the foetus and abort it if it happens to be female. But the medical and political apparatus doesn't care. 5 } RIGHT TO SHELTER It's a rich man's world When the Congress-ncp government in Maharashtra tied its laces for the ridiculously ambitious plan of turning Mumbai into Shanghai, slums were the first casualty: 90,000 people marooned and their homes bulldozed. The poor found shelter under the open sky in graveyards and garbage dumps. When they protested, led by Medha Patkar, they were brutally crushed. Whenever the question of encroachment on public land was raised, the poor were targeted, as also in Delhi and other metros. Hundreds of homes razed overnight, thousands rendered homeless in a flash. For the hard working, honest, poor people who run the unorganised sector of India's neo-liberalised cities, and serve elite households as domestic and skilled workers, it was yet another signal that this democracy does not belong to them. Compare their tragedy with the massive media and political attention for the 18,000 swanky, illegal structures being demolished in Delhi! ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] From Tehelka
Metal Macabre and Designer Sweatshops Dark, ghost-like figures in tatters, moving back and forth into the metal polishing machines. Exiled, stunningly condemned in the era of globalisation, with no human rights. Shankar Ramaswami captures the hellish life of workers in an American-owned metal factory in Delhi Click on the picture below to see a photo-essay on the subject Modern Times: American designer Michael Aram's metal factory in Delhi's Okhla Industrial Area When i first came to the metal artware polishing factory of Michael Aram Exports Pvt Ltd, B-156, DDA Sheds, Okhla Industrial Area Phase I, New Delhi, in the winter of 2001, the things I witnessed were disturbing. Dark, ghost-like figures in tatters, with dhoti scraps covering the head and face, undulating back and forth into the polishing machines, pushing and pressing finely designed steel pieces onto the buffs, pausing only momentarily to gaze down at microscopic imperfections under the gloomy and dim fluorescent light, wiping the cascading sweat intruding into the eyes, tightening the grip of their ripped gloves, and hurling themselves again into the machines. It was a strange, rhythmic, pulsating danse macabre of brute force and subtle grace. The deafening subterranean whirring of a poorly constructed pollution exhaust fan and ducting system did little to clear the thick, malodorous, grayish-black haze of metal dust, debris, and buff fibres looming on the shopfloor, yet forced workers to absurdly shout at each other even at half metre distances that separated them at the machines. It's stark, the barren and desolate expressions of the young, childlike helpers who monotonously apply abrasive emery powder to leather polish buffs by hand, using crude and noxious adhesives made of beef and pork fat, in preparation for the polishing process. The constantly watchful and prodding presence of the foreman, pacing and patrolling behind the polishers, ceaselessly demanding more pieces, more speed, more shine. These artware pieces are, after all, destined for the highest-end department stores, galleries, hotels, and museums of America. At the end of 12 hours of this hell, these blackened, grimy and emaciated bodies, marred with scars and injuries to the limbs from polishing work and worn down by austere diets, digestive disorders and respiratory illnesses, cram into a 3' by 3' by 6' single person latrine to scrub away the sedimented remains of the day, using carefully conserved fragments of an abrasive, cheap 555 detergent soap, given once a week in the factory. It was the horror of it all, along with the very palpable, unrelenting resistance to this horror - in humour, in individual defiance, in micro-collective struggle - that kept me coming back to this place. Over the course of four years, as I came to know these 50 migrant workers from Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, and Jharkhand, along with their families, residing in cramped, tension-ridden, 100 square feet rooms in urban villages and jhuggi colonies of outer Delhi, I was deeply educated by their knowledge, wisdom and insight into the fine, complex contours and topographies, not merely of steel pieces but of the social, political, and ethical structures of the factory, the neighborhood, the family, the village, and the modern society as a whole. These workers, I discovered, are poets, philosophers, and sages, however riven with ordinary weaknesses, distortions, and unrealised potentialities. Today these worker-philosophers are out on the streets of Delhi, conducting silent, non-violent placard protests against the activities of the Michael Aram Exports management which has denied them work since March 2005 (due to an inter-partner dispute), stopped their wages since September 2005, and at present, is seeking to coldly and illegally terminate them. Meanwhile, Michael Aram, a super-rich American designer, is conducting the very same metal export work in a neighbouring new factory at C-109, Okhla Industrial Area Phase I, under a different company name, Michael Aram Designs. These workers, now 18 in number (along with the widow of a worker killed in the course of filing a request for payment of wages in the Labour Court), are asking to be absorbed into the new unit, so that they may continue their livelihoods in a legal, secure, and dignified manner, rather than be re-cast yet again into the vast and widening ocean of hyper-exploitative casual and contract work. It remains to be seen whether Aram, presently residing in America, will choose to learn something from these unusual workers about respect, decency and dignity, and rehabilitate these workers back into the hellish world of metal polishing. The writer is doing PhD on 'Lives and Longings of Metal Workers in Delhi', Department of Anthropology, University of Chicago Dec 31 , 2005 ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka
The report shows that India is still in the age of Industrial revolution of Europe of 19th/early 20thcentury. Voicing such scenes to the public is good for democracy. What is lacking in the corrupt Indian system is probably the implementation of the existing Industrial Engeering Rules. The report does not mystreiously address any of these. Along with these any ongoing voice from the society against Child Labor in India or secret Human Sacrifice in the name of religion (not to mention the ongoing animal sacrifice in the name of Ma Durga or Ma Kali) is also good for a stable democracy. What I however failed to understand or rather confused withthe writer's concluding remark. Is it not supposed to be a protest to the ongoing scene. Or what Ttehelka is trying to say?. What is their point?. It remains to be seen whether Aram, presently residing in America, will choose to learn something from these unusual workers about respect, decency and dignity, and rehabilitate these workers back into the hellish world of metal polishing.RB - Original Message - From: "Chan Mahanta" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 8:49 AM Subject: [Assam] From Tehelka Metal Macabre and Designer Sweatshops Dark, ghost-like figures in tatters, moving back and forth into the metal polishing machines. Exiled, stunningly condemned in the era of globalisation, with no human rights. Shankar Ramaswami captures the hellish life of workers in an American-owned metal factory in Delhi Click on the picture below to see a photo-essay on the subject Modern Times: American designer Michael Aram's metal factory in Delhi's Okhla Industrial Area When i first came to the metal artware polishing factory of Michael Aram Exports Pvt Ltd, B-156, DDA Sheds, Okhla Industrial Area Phase I, New Delhi, in the winter of 2001, the things I witnessed were disturbing. Dark, ghost-like figures in tatters, with dhoti scraps covering the head and face, undulating back and forth into the polishing machines, pushing and pressing finely designed steel pieces onto the buffs, pausing only momentarily to gaze down at microscopic imperfections under the gloomy and dim fluorescent light, wiping the cascading sweat intruding into the eyes, tightening the grip of their ripped gloves, and hurling themselves again into the machines. It was a strange, rhythmic, pulsating danse macabre of brute force and subtle grace. The deafening subterranean whirring of a poorly constructed pollution exhaust fan and ducting system did little to clear the thick, malodorous, grayish-black haze of metal dust, debris, and buff fibres looming on the shopfloor, yet forced workers to absurdly shout at each other even at half metre distances that separated them at the machines. It's stark, the barren and desolate expressions of the young, childlike helpers who monotonously apply abrasive emery powder to leather polish buffs by hand, using crude and noxious adhesives made of beef and pork fat, in preparation for the polishing process. The constantly watchful and prodding presence of the foreman, pacing and patrolling behind the polishers, ceaselessly demanding more pieces, more speed, more shine. These artware pieces are, after all, destined for the highest-end department stores, galleries, hotels, and museums of America. At the end of 12 hours of this hell, these blackened, grimy and emaciated bodies, marred with scars and injuries to the limbs from polishing work and worn down by austere diets, digestive disorders and respiratory illnesses, cram into a 3' by 3' by 6' single person latrine to scrub away the sedimented remains of the day, using carefully conserved fragments of an abrasive, cheap 555 detergent soap, given once a week in the factory. It was the horror of it all, along with the very palpable, unrelenting resistance to this horror - in humour, in individual defiance, in micro-collective struggle - that kept me coming back to this place. Over the course of four years, as I came to know these 50 migrant workers from Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, and Jharkhand, along with their families, residing in cramped, tension-ridden, 100 square feet rooms in urban villages and jhuggi colonies of outer Delhi, I was deeply educated by their knowledge, wisdom and insight into the fine, complex contours and topographies, not merely of steel pieces but of the social, political, and ethical structures of the factory, the neighborhood, the family, the village, and the modern society as a whole. These workers, I discovered, are poets, philosophers, and sages, however riven with ordinary weaknesses, distortions, and unrealised potentialities. Today these worker-philosophers are out on the streets of Delhi, conducting silent, non-violent placard protests against the activities of the Michael Aram Exports management which has de
Re: [Assam] From Tehelka: Bonded for Life Laborers
Now the question is if this barbaric practice is limited to Haryana and Punjab only, or other states as well? If it is prevalent elsewhere too, what are those places? Question also arises about PM M M Singh's assertions about how 'democracy' can resolve any problem India faces, if not everywhere, and India's record of using democracy to guarantee such a fundamental human right as freedom from bonded labor for its most vulnerable sectors. At 8:36 PM +0100 9/22/05, umesh sharma wrote: A few years earlier there were news that rich Sikh farmers in Punjab were making bonded labor out of poorer Sikhs who took money loans from them and did not repay. If this is the case of the richeststate - the plight in otherstates can only be imagined. Swami Agnivesh from that area has this as his main mission - freeing bonded labor. Umesh ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] From Tehelka: Bonded for Life Laborers
Title: From Tehelka: Bonded for Life Laborers THE MINING MAFIA HAS LABOUR BONDED FOR LIFE Stone age on Delhi's border The recent rescue of 114 bonded labourers, including children, from Haryana reveals that the authorities and mine owners are still conniving to hire and exploit bonded labour, abolished in 1976. Etmad Ahmad Khan investigates Pitiless In The Pits: Most of the mines in Haryana function illegally and exploit workers Photo Dharmender Ruhil Women in Pichupa Kalan mines were forced back to work barely eight days after delivering babies * Twenty-one-year old Bijendar Singh was blown to pieces as he was dangerously close to the explosion site. * Satpal Singh, 23, succumbed to his injuries after a heavy stone fell on his chest. * Mahipal Singh, 38, was crushed to death under a trolley carrying stones. * Dalbir Singh, 35, joined the list after the rope holding him at a height of 150 feet gave way. The list goes on, endless in its brutality and its sheer deathliness. Poor labourers continue to add statistics to a list that should not even exist as mining is mostly banned in Haryana. But even today, poor migrants in search of money end up as bonded labour in the inhuman and unsafe environs of Haryana's mines. No compensation has been paid to the dead. No one has even complained, simply because they don't even know that they can. Only three weeks ago, Bachpan Bachao Andolan, an ngo, stepped in to rescue 114 bonded slaves, of which 56 were children, mostly girls. Ever since the now dethroned Om Prakash Chautala government monopolised the mining business in the state by auctioning quarries to private companies, violation of rules, regulations and safety norms has become the order of the day. Apart from cases of death, there are hundreds who have lost their limbs and eyes due to unsafe explosions and avoidable accidents in the mines. Thirty-eight-year-old Dalbir Singh lost his eyes in an accident while working in a mine in Khanak, a village in Tosham area of Bhiwani district of Haryana. "After I lost my eyes, I was kicked out of my job. I have six children. I am very worried about our future. Now, I do odd jobs here and there to survive," says Dalbir. Another labourer Bahadur Singh is unemployed at 22 after he lost one eye when a stone burst through his eyeball. Exploitation of labour is a norm in the mines of Haryana and hundreds of children can be spotted working day and night in these mines. But a nexus among Haryana politicians, mine owners and contractors has meant that no one is punished for this. No one is, because the administration too is a part of the unholy nexus. The district administration for instance, refused to give release certificates for the 114 who were rescued. The certificate would have been proof of the fact that the archaic practice of bonded labour is still thriving. It would also have forced the state government to give Rs 20,000 each as rehabilitation expenses. Of this amount, half is given by the Central government but since 1993, Haryana has not issued a single release certificate. In the last five years alone, Bachpan Bachao Andolan has rescued 1,000 bonded workers but, says its general secretary RS Chaurasia, "The state government seems to think that bonded means someone who is literally chained at their feet." Release certificates would go a long way in offering respite. The certificate entitles workers to allotment of a house on priority through the Indira Awas Yojna, admission in schools for children and a monthly pension of Rs 100. Labour and safety laws are, in fact, being violated in connivance with the government. All mine owners are supposed to keep basic records like wage registers, attendance registers, leave registers, accident and medical records. No mine in Haryana's Bhiwani district, however, has maintained any record. Nor have the mandatory identity cards been issued to the wage earners. On the contrary, the owners keep a strict eye on their slaves, ensuring that they don't run away. They are allowed to go on leave only when they leave some family members behind. Most of the labourers in these mines are migrants from Bihar, UP, Uttaranchal and Rajasthan. Agents of the contractors in these states lure them to the mines by promising them a better future. Once they reach here, the contractors give them advance payments on which they charge interest. Perennial penury would have it that most of them get into the debt trap of the contractors and end up as bonded slaves working for extremely low wages. In Khanak alone, more than 350 labourers reportedly died during mining activities in the past nine years in separate accidents. "In 2001, following several incidents of deaths in the mines, the labourers launched a movement demanding safe working conditions and an end to exploitation, but the police crushed their voices," says Vijay Pal, a labour leader. While there are a number of laws protecting the rights of labourers and providing them safe working
