Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? adriani wrote:This is simply due to Microsoft pushing hard towards its own products.Not entirely true. To an extent, node.js is getting there what with Aria, and that's pretty screenreader agnostic. So Narrator could eventually work with that without too much rangling necessary. And if that were true, then MS would not be releasing a very easy to use text to speech api in their xbox for game developers to tap into. Microsoft does a great job of making their stuff accessible across the board (except for skype but I partially blame the mac because it's slightly easier on windows.) But still. If you want someone that pushes accessibility as a marketing ploy for its own products, try Apple. ITunes is incredibly accessible on the mac, but it sucks donkey dick on windows. And Windows Defender, as much of a nuisance as it can be, has actually gotten a lot better than some people give it credit for. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/424814/#p424814 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? on a 64bit system, 32bit components are still needed, especially when you deal with com dlls and registry files which register on system32 and on syswo64. You cannot compare a screen reader with something like Microsoft office or so. The difference here is, Jaws will not install 64bit components on a 32bit system. But it certainly will install some 32bit components on a 64bit system. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/424790/#p424790 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? Hi @Enes, if you have read carefully the whats new of jaws 2019 you would have not said that. This is a quote from the whats new:Starting with JAWS 2019, there is now one link to download and install JAWS for all supported operating systems and languages. You no longer have to choose the correct setup executable based on your system as well as which language you need. When you begin the setup, the installer automatically detects whether you are using 32 or 64-bit and installs the correct components.>That being said, Jaws is by far not only 64bit. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/424789/#p424789 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? I just sent NV Access an email about creating an enterprise specific version. Maybe a version that disables logging, add-ons, and other dev features will make security conscious organizations happy.The less I say about Freedom Scientific and their monopolistic business practices, the better. I don't know why people don't look at other options. JAWS may have been significant 10 or 20 years ago, but times are changing. I don't necessarily want JAWS to go away, I just want the product to drop in price, get rid of these ridiculous SMAs, focus on fixing nothing but bugs in a major version instead of adding useless features, drastically improve their shitty technical support, and for the company to quit being so monopolistic. I think that's the thing that pisses me off the most. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/424585/#p424585 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? I just sent NV Access an email about creating an enterprise specific version. Maybe a version that disables logging, add-ons, and other dev features will make security conscious organizations happy.The less I say about Freedom Scientific and their monopolistic business practices, the better. I don't know why people don't look at other options. JAWS may have been significant 10 or 20 years ago, but times are changing. I don't necessarily want JAWS to go away, I just want the product to drop in price, get rid of these ridiculous SMAs, focus on fixing nothing but bugs in a major version instead of adding useless features, drastically imrpove their shitty technical support, and for the company to quit being so monopolistic. I think that's the thing that pisses me off the most. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/424585/#p424585 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? Hi Adriani,Well, Jaws is a pure 64 bit app, however it is able to still interact with x86 apps fine. Also, a x86 app actually decreases performance because NVDA has to run on the x86 compatibility layer, and cannot utilize greater performance of 64 bit. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/424511/#p424511 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? @Nocturnus in my view, Narator might possibly work really good with Microsoft products in the future but that's it. Narator will never work i.e. with SAP software or with Java applications or with third party apps as good as Jaws or NVDA do. This is simply due to Microsoft pushing hard towards its own products. It certainly will not invest too much ressources in reviewing other products i.e. Libre office or so.Moreover, I think Jaws and NVDA are already much ahead Narator in terms of many small things like reporting certain stuff in a specific way. users are used to that and provide lot of feedback. I don't think that Narator gets so much feedback from users like Jaws or NVDA. I am sure the users will provide feedback in the future, but most of them will rather use Jaws or NVDA for acertain task instead of providing feedback via the feedback hub or so to Microsoft. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/424301/#p424301 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? Interesting topic.This is a discussion my coworkers, students and I have about once a month or so. Most everyone comes down on the NVDA side, and even the Jaws users among us admit that the days of Jaws for personal use are numbered, at least in countries where Jaws is still eyewateringly expensive. So far, no one is quite that enthusiastic about Narrator, probably because not many feel brave enough to try it yet. In the Bahamas the ideaof blind employment is still relatively new, and if a built-in solution exists that would mean that people in charge of departments that employ the blind don't have to do more than provide a computer running Windows 10, Jaws would lose what customers they have here. As for personal use, most people don't havethe fundsto afford Jaws, so most are either ondemo versionsor older ones. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/424248/#p424248 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? In order for Narrator to seriously take over as default screen reader and improve beyond the scope of NVDA or JFW, MS will have to start closing its system down to outsiders and outside development. It'll provide a screen reading solution that works to some degree, polishing off the basics and giving you flexibility out of the box, but much like antivirus and other malware products, it will not spend more than it needs to to develop a superior screen reading application. Windows defender works to protect your purchase on the surface, but if you want intense security you don't rely solely on MS for it. I believe the same will continue to hold true on the screen reading front. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/424120/#p424120 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
2019-04-01
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : blindrobertbrown via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? Wait, has Narrorator improved so much? Because the last time I tried to use that particular screen reader, I had a number of problems with itSuch as not being able to copy and paste text, not being able to post blog posts because both the text editor, as well as the enter key functioning didn't want to co-operate. And last time I checked it out, it seemed like there still wasn't a way to open up a list of elements like you can do with Jaws or NVDA. I also find the constant need of switching between the two modes on Narrator to be confusing and tedious. Then again I haven't used Jaws since 2008, and I might look into the home subscription version at some point in the future.I like NVDa. I've been using NVDa on a daily basis since 2011 when my vision got to the point I required a screen reader to do anything on a computer, but the last couple of updates have me wondering what the hell is going on. Something just doesn't feel right to me.Then again, things have been wrong with Windows for the past couple of years or at least that is how it seems to me with my experiences.I've since decided to switch over to Mac and am currently saving up to buy a decent Apple laptop later in this summer as my primary computer, because I have just had it with Windows in general. But I will probably still pick up a fairly cheap Windows laptop later on because there are just some things I like to do that won't be accessible with Voice Over. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/424080/#p424080 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? People are missing a key thing here. If you're running Windows 10 home, you're not accessing your home PC from somewhere else using RDP, no matter how much you want to and if Narrator allows it. RDP is not available on Win 10 home. If you want remote access, it's Teamviewer, LogMeIn, something similar to those two, or nothing. If no screenreader will work nicely with something like Teamviewer, than you don't get to access your machine remotely. Running Windows 10 pro? Running Windows server? Congratulations. You still have RDP access--you may just have to enable it. On home, the RDP server doesn't exist. RDP client, however, still does. That's why I'm curious to test out if Teamviewer actually works with either JAWS or NVDA.To answer your question, yes you need to have JAWS installed on both to use even RDP. However, if you're remoting into your own computer, presumedly you're already running JAWS, so that should be a non-issue. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/424043/#p424043 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? I don't see Jaws dropping out completely, but I do see their need to change their pricing structure. Let's say though, that they do. NVDA is not, and I repeat not ready to take up the slack. I'm not even considering users' objections to NVDA when saying this, I basically mean that NVDA does not have the feature set Jaws people will expect. Then you have the fact that the thing runs like a dream on some machines, and on others, is moderately bad to terrible. But apparently Jaws is getting this way too. Damn it, NVDA needs, to, be, pure, 64, bit. But anyone who says that gets shouted down. OK. Let's see how long you can live that way. We've already lost access to Java through means of the JAB. Anyway, It's hard to get corporations to accept it, but we've already had that discussion, just pointing it out because Jaws is so dominant in professional circles. Then you have the way NVDA devs just leave issues open and uncommented. Also, it's my opinion that NVDA needs a bug tracker that is easy to use. Github is not for the ordinary schmuck, I'm sorry, but it's just not. I don't have a problem with it, even though I'm not a dev, but plenty of others don't understand the thing. It's not a matter of just create an account and get going with it. I get why it's there, and I wouldn't ever intend on saying stop using it entirely, since that's what other devs should be using. But, just your average users should have something where they can submit bugs through an easy to use form. Now, if this is possible, that form could certainly be the front end to an API that converts it into a github issue where the template is filled in. I.e. on the form, put separate boxes for each field in the template, then have the form submitted to an intermediary script that converts it to a github issue. I don't know if that is even possible, if there is a github API that lets you do that or whatever, just a thought.The conclusion I'm heading towards is that I'm rather impressed by how much I'm becoming unimpressed by NVDA of late. It's been my primary for 10 years now, hell, my only for 10 years now, so it makes that sad to have to say. When Jamie left for Mozilla, that just through a monkey wrench into the project. I thought it might knock everyone off their stride, but the project still hasn't recovered imo. So, if NVDA remains in this state, and Jaws just drops out of the market, and Narrator's half ready at best, that ain't good. That's me spinning stuff out though and I don't consider the likelihood of that happening to be very high. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423957/#p423957 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? regarding teamviewer, mouse event are injected now in NVDA 2019.1 also when using teamviewer so you can control a PC remotely with NVDA that way as well.I also think that RDP support in Narator would be the best we can have. And I hope that Microsoft will jump on that train as well with Narator. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423930/#p423930 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? If you like RDP support for NVDA as well as Citrix and other remote protocols, have a look at this software which however costs some money but it is also meant to be used in professional environments.Unicorn documentation:https://access4u.eu/unicorndvc-documentation/Unicorn with NVDA:https://access4u.eu/unicornnvda/The NVDA remote addon which can be used with unicorn is here:https://access4u.eu/downloads/ URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423929/#p423929 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
2019-03-31
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : giorgi elbaqidze via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? jawse users no offence: i'm not sad for this really dude I was not like jawse and never gonna like it. I'm saying no offence to you URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423919/#p423919 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? Well, that's a complicated argument. If NVDA crashes and hangs, you're s o l until you can get to that remote computer, unless nvda remote's send ctrl+alt+del works, and if you have any secure login screens to deal with, NVDA Remote is on for secure desktop. If NVDA restarts, as long as you have auto-login with a persistent code turned in NVDA Remote preferences, you will autoconnect to the machine. Persistent codes are definitely not an issue if you're using your own server to connect. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423901/#p423901 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? For remote desktop with JAWS, I believe you have to have JAWS installed on both ends, or at least that what I gathered by reading the help docs on FS's site. I personally think that FS needs to learn by what pretty much what happens to the IV software out there. Let me explain, MS includes security essentials in windows 10. For most people, that is usually fine if people watch where they go online. Of course windows has a built in firewall too, which means that most do not have a need for “zone alarm” or whatever that one is called. Now, MS is working on improving Narrator. If you ask me, Narrator is the biggest threat to JAWS simply do to the fact that it is built in and JAWS is not. Yes, there is NVDA, but still. Anyway, the $90 proved to be low enough to upgrade, but it is not low enough to keep me if something better is just around the curve. My guess is that FS will be, at some point, force to drop the price of using JAWS on the remote desktop. After all, if that is offered for free with another screen reader, for long enough, people will not see the point. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423890/#p423890 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? 28. I completely agree with you there, hence the statement of if they don't have to install anything at all, all the better. At this point, both JAWS and NVDA need installation, and they'll keep using JAWS, since that's what they know. Not as in how to use, but as the brand. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423842/#p423842 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? That's why I want to see Microsoft improve Narrator support for RDP and RA. Imagine being able to control any Windows 10 PC, regardless of whether a screen reader is installed or not. All Windows 10 computers come with Narrator out of the box, so this would be a fantastic solution to the remote control barrier blind people face. Microsoft has stated multiple times that they want to improve employment for folks with disabilities, and this is a perfect opportunity to do so.How does the JAWS remote support work? I know you have to pay extra which I think is a bunch of bullshit. Does it require both computers to have JAWS installed? If so, it's not really practical. I'm not talking about JAWS Tandem, I'm talking about the other remote support option they offer.I don't like Team Viewer. The last time I tried it, the audio support was extremely bad. It took a few seconds for audio to be sent from the controlling machine to the controller. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423833/#p423833 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? That's why I want to see Microsoft improve Narrator support for RDP and RA. Imagine being able to control any Windows 10 PC, regardless of whether a screen reader is installed or not. All Windows 10 computers come with Narrator out of the box, so this would be a fantastic solution to the remote control barrier blind people face. Microsoft has stated multiple times that they want to improve employment for folks with disabilities. This is a perfect opportunity to do so.How does the JAWS remote support work? I know you have to pay extra which I think is a bunch of bullshit. Does it require both computers to have JAWS installed? If so, it's not really practical.I don't like Team Viewer. The last time I tried it, the audio support was extremely bad. It took a few seconds for audio to be sent from the controlling machine to the controller. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423833/#p423833 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? That's why I want to see Microsoft improve Narrator support for RDP and RA. Imagine being able to control any Windows 10 PC, regardless of whether a screen reader is installed or not. All Windows 10 computers come with Narrator out of the box, so this would be a fantastic solution to the remote control barrier blind people face. Microsoft has cliamed multiple times that they want to improve employment for folks with disabilities. This is a perfect opportunity to do so.How does the JAWS remote support work? I know you have to pay extra which I think is a bunch of bullshit. Does it require both computers to have JAWS installed? If so, it's not really practical.I don't like Team Viewer. The last time I tried it, the audio support was extremely bad. It took a few seconds for audio to be sent from the controlling machine to the controller. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423833/#p423833 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? That's why I want to see Microsoft improve Narrator support for RDP and RA. Imagine being able to control any Windows 10 PC, regardless of whether a screen reader is installed or not. All Windows 10 computers come with Narrator out of the box, so this would be a fantastic solution to the remote control barrier blind people face.How does the JAWS remote support work? I know you have to pay extra which I think is a bunch of bullshit. Does it require both computers to have JAWS installed? If so, it's not really practical. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423833/#p423833 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? @25: Tech departments are lazy, and paranoid. It's usually upper management that's cheap. Tech departments just about the world over are going to get a little sketchy about installing anything they haven't previously approved/worked with/completely combed through onto their networks. Doesn't matter if it's open source or not, and in some cases, open source might actually be an argument against approval--keep in mind just about no one corporate uses Open Office, for example, and there are still way too many business critical servers running Windows. I can see them maybe defaulting to Narrator or nothing if Narrator becomes good enough, but I can't see corporate IT adopting NVDA. And the only reason they'd adopt Narrator is because it's baked into Windows--even Win Server has it. Industry is only just in the last year or two starting a large scale migration to things like Office365, and only because they've decided that O365, or GSuite, is cheaper than running their own on-prem Exchange server or cluster of servers. I've never seen a corporate environment running, for example, Postfix etc as a mail solution, despite the fact that that setup would be significantly cheaper than even O365, even if you factor in you'd need the hardware to put it on--most servers are virtual anyway these days, so even that cost isn't necessarily guaranteed.@21: See, today I learned. I do have a Linux server, so I could easily stick it on there. Would probably do that, as if I need to send data to some average shmuck on the internet in order to get connected, I'd rather that average shmuck be me. The thing is, with RDP, the only two machines that care about your remote connection are the machine you're sitting in front of and and the machine you're connecting two. As far as I'm aware, that's the same with Teamviewer, except that Teamviewer lets you store authentication creds for the servers you're connecting to. Plus, doesn't NVDA need to be running before you can use NVDA Remote? If the screenreader crashes, aren't you pooched? I'd rather, personally, a utility that lets me restart the screenreader, whichever one I end up using, from where I'm sitting without needing to get up, drive across town (or an hour and a half away), restart the thing, then drive back. RDP and Teamviewer would let me do that. NVDA, to my knowledge, hates both. I don't know if JAWS hates Teamviewer. Narrator, as much as it's improved, hates just about everything. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423807/#p423807 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? I support jaws too. Pricing aside, I think it's a great screen reader with some unique useful features. I just think that if in future, the RNIB's blind workers can get the job done just as efficiently using Narrator, they'll ditch jaws purely for financial reasons. They're just as much a commercial venture as a blind charity. I don't see jaws going anywhere in the next five years or so, but beyond that, I'm really not sure. It remains to be seen how much this new affordability has on winning back the slice of the market it has lost to NVDA. It's the development of Narrator that I see as a bigger threat at present. Jaws could end up being threatened on two fronts: the corporate and personal. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423798/#p423798 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? I support jaws too. Pricing aside, I think it's a great screen reader with some unique useful features. I just think that if in future, the RNIB's blind workers can get the job done just as efficiently using Narrator, they'll ditch jaws purely for financial reasons. They're just as much a commercial venture as a blind charity. I don't see jaws going anywhere in the next five years or so, but beyond that, I'm really not sure. It remains to be seen how much this new affordability has on winning back the slice of the market it has lost to NVDA. It's the development of Narrator that I see as a bigger threat at present. Jaws could end up being threatened on two fronts. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423798/#p423798 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? I support jaws too. Pricing aside, I think it's a great screen reader with some unique useful features. I just think that if in future, the RNIB's blind workers can get the job done just as efficiently using Narrator, they'll ditch jaws purely for financial reasons. They're just as much a commercial venture as a blind charity. I don't see jaws going anywhere in the next five years or so, but beyond that, I'm really not sure. It remains to be seen how much this new affordability has on winning back the slice of the market it has lost to NVDA. It's the development of Narrator that I see as a bigger threat at present. Jaws could end up waging war on two fronts. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423798/#p423798 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? I support jaws too. Pricing aside, I think it's a great screen reader with some unique useful features. I just think that if in future, the RNIB's blind workers can get the job done just as efficiently using Narrator, they'll ditch jaws purely for financial reasons. They're just as much a commercial venture as a blind charity. I don't see jaws going anywhere in the next five years or so, but beyond that, I'm really not sure. It remains to be seen how much this new affordability has on winning back the slice of the market they've lost to NVDA. Like I said earlier, I think the damage is done, but if they can survive long enough for a new generation to grow up with jaws being affordable, it might change. Who knows. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423798/#p423798 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? Interesting topic, with some interesting times. I don't want to go into much publicly, but I've recently had my first ever RNIB experience. The guys, after finding out I was an NVDA user, were genuinely curious, as all their none-visual users are still on JAWS, and they were asking me what's the point of paying, when narrator and NVDA exist. Nice to see some change there. I hope I'll never have to deal with JAWS. NVDA'S temporary performance issues got me worried, but after seeing some 2019 things, I have hope. My personal idea is to pull out with NVDA until I'm forced, and when I say forced, I mean just that, to go on win10, and by that time, hopefully, narrator will be good enough. And for things that it isn't, I'll just use NVDA.Narrator even has partial chrome support now. As for things like office, you'd hope Microsoft's own product is compatible with one another. JAWS dropped the price, sure, but I'm afraid it's too late. Given you got built in narrator, with no performance issues, plus you got NVDA that clamped down on add-on security, and is finally making the switch to python 3, (I'm hoping for a massive code clean up when that happens) things could be good. And despite contracts, I don't know why businesses would pay for. Tech departments are lazy. If they on't have to configure a screen reader, whether that be JAWS or otherwise, all the better for them. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423746/#p423746 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? Not true as far as I can tell, the desktop variants of David and Zira have recorded character speech. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423693/#p423693 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? @Quanin: The NVDA Remote relay server is lightweight enough that you could run it on any Linux server you have running, and when it is not being used it shouldn't take up many system resources at all. For a time I did have one running on a Raspberry Pi. Keep in mind that Androids/Chromebooks can also now remote into your NVDA thanks to the Narwha l NVDA Remote client.@ironcross32: Someone used Eloquence with Narrator before, so I know that other sapi voices should work with narrator. They *may* have to be 64bit though, that's the only potential problem if you have other sapi voices.Also, when using oneCore voices, the responsiveness setting can actually be adjusted. The lag is an artificial buffer, sort of like how VMware will attempt to meet in the middle with the streaming buffer time for the soundcard to try to accommodate most systems, however if you have a fast system you obviously want to make the buffer time as low as possible for the most responsiveness. These voices work the exact same way. IT probably won't affect Narrator as something tells me they're using the desktop variants of those voices and not the oneCore variants. The only difference between the two is the oneCore variants are fully synthesized, and don't have the prerecorded letters when you press keys. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423690/#p423690 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? Narrator can get as good as it wants, as can NVDA and JAWS. I'll switch between them as is necessary, exactly like I do now. First one to allow me to access my personal machines over Teamviewer wins. NVDA Remote is nice, but I'm a little lacking in spare Windows servers to run it on. JAWS's remote access option is nice, but that costs extra (I have it), and it's only available if you're running JAWS pro (I am, for reasons), and a lot of things have to go exactly right for you to actually use the feature--including the computer you're remoting into running an equal or earlier version of JAWS than you are, so your remote access authorisation will actually work. Plus, Remote Desktop isn't actually available on windows 10 unless you're running pro and explicitly enable it, so it's either Teamviewer, LogMeIn, or nothing. If Narrator can fill that gap and allow me remote access without shitting the bed, then on days I need that access, Narrator will be my best friend. Similarly, if I discover that JAWS will let me do it, VFO, or FS, or whatever they're calling themselves by this time 2020 can take my money and say thank you. And if NVDA invents an option that isn't NVDA Remote, I'm all in. Other than that, I have no loyalty. JAWS is my go-to for my server work, NVDA is my go-to if I need to turn and burn a VM for reasons, and Narrator stays in the back pocket if I need to squish an edge case the other two miss--usually because that edge case caused one or both of them to choke on themselves and die. If any one of them use what's going on as an excuse to improve, I win. If JAWS and NVDA fold, I'll buy a Mac. If I'm going to be forced to rely on one screenreader, I may as well rely on the one with experience being decent at it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423627/#p423627 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? Hmm. I'm curious as to why JAWS has performance issues on those laptops. What's the CPU? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423625/#p423625 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? To me the best would be that all 3 screen-readers stay there, because I always like to have more option. There is always something not working and even if it's rare, usually switching screen reader will do the trick. If there is only one screen reader and it doesn't work, then you are screwed. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423616/#p423616 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? Microsoft needs a good, fast, responsive voice or two to put in OneCore. Nobody cares about these half way fancy sounding voices, we want raw speed. Fancy is OK for reading articles, but all the MS voices suck anyway, so there's that. If they came out with one or two voices like Fred on the mac, or came out with better speech technology that could keep up, I'd consider using narrator a lot more. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423605/#p423605 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? NVDA is actually fast approaching its python 3 move, something we have been waiting for for a long time. I say that as an xp user myself, ironically, but knowing that xp is my energy-efficient operating system since the mac's battery management is pure shit because of how the battery ages. That being said, once this Pixelbook starts running windows 10, NVDA 2019.1 and beyond is going on it. It's about time we adopt python 3 completely. So, yes, bare in mind that NVDA is actively trying to fix bugs - go on the beta channel if you want to see it all in action.As for Windows becoming the mac? Figurative I know, but that can never happen. Thing is, the way windows accessibility works is that the screen reader communicates with existing api's, and in some cases has their own custom fallback, but usually can get the work done with existing api's ui automation, aria, and msaa offer. Those are universal standards. Apple Voiceover, on the other hand, is hooked into strict methodologies and baked so completely into the operating system to the point where no one would want! to make a third party screen reader for it because the api's are stupidly complicated. Those windows frameworks aren't going anywhere, because stuff is a lot less proprietary, so there's no possibility of a screen reader purge. Especially given the MS is still working with all these screen reader companies anyway. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423599/#p423599 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? I generally agree that scripting is a temporary solution; however, I find it difficult to imagine that many app developers will suddenly make all of their apps accessible. Although this has drastically improved, there are still many apps that are either partially accessible, or totally inaccessible. Most EBook readers for example, are still not accessible; the ones that are still need work, most notably Adobe Digital Editions, especially when it comes to braille support. I am glad that there are a few options available to us. Narrator is getting better indeed and the possibility of Jaws being replaced looks quite likely. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423597/#p423597 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? So I used to hate Jaws with a passion. I only ever used NVDA because it was great and I never had any issues. Every year, we'd have a new version of Jaws with 10 new features nobody would ever use and seemingly more bugs.Last year though, I noticed they started releasing updates with tons of bug fixes, and last week, I went ahead and shelled the $90 for the home license and I'm actualy finding the experience really pleasant. I feel like in a lot of ways, NVDA is becoming what jaws used to be.Just earlier this morning, I opened NVDA to test something with Chrome and it did this thing where it loses focus and restarting it is the only way to fix it. I used to constantly have issues like that with Jaws like 5 years ago.If you're in the US, you don't have to pay $1500 anymore. You only have to pay $90/year and you'll receive updates and the ability to install Jaws on 3 computers, which seems perfectly reasonable to me. I'm disappointed that they haven't rolled that out to other countries yet though.Anyway, I don't think Jaws or NVDA are going anywhere any time soon. Narrator is pretty cool, and I love what Microsoft is doing with it, but I still feel it's got a ways to go. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423595/#p423595 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? I use JAWS at work, and I have had performance issues, but I don't think JAWS will be going away any time soon. For one thing, JAWS has contracts with many local and federal governments. I would bet you those entities will drop JAWS right before the world ends. To post 11: I agree scripts aren't the solution, the fact of the matter is, scripts are necessary for programs like Quickbooks to function correctly. NVDA just doesn't work with some specialized applications yet.Saying all that, I am not a huge JAWS fan, but I hope that we always have a few screen readers for Windows. We don't want Windows 10 to turn in to the Mac. The mac has one screen reader with no scripting capability, and if the program you are using doesn't work with the screen reader you are stuck. To end this long-winded post, I think having something like JAWS and NVDA around is a good thing. I do agree that Freedom Scientific needs to adjust there pricing model, and maybe they could add a few new features along the way. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423587/#p423587 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? I think the home annual license is a case of closing the gate after the horse has bolted. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423571/#p423571 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? No, I don't think this applies. Microsoft is still partnering with Vispero, NV Access, etc. I think NVDA will always be an option because it's free and is supported by the community thanks to its open source nature. The problem is JAWS/Magic/Zoom Text. What are the people at Vispero going to do if no one bothers purchasing their products in a few years because Narrator and NVDA are good enough for 99% of the tasks most people want to do?As far as I know, they can't stop Microsoft from building their own in house solutions. They might get butt hurt over it, but they're going to have to suck it up. Once again, I think it would be best if these people joined Microsoft. Imagine the talent they could bring to the Narrator and Magnifier teams.Times are a changing, and unless Vispero change their business practices, they're going to be left behind. I'm sorry, but I really think that's going to happen in the not too distant future. Hopefully organizations will wake up and realize that they don't need to pay for an expensive solution like JAWS to access Microsoft Office and other commonly used programs in the workplace when Narrator and NVDA can do it for free.I've said this before, and I'll say it again. The only legitimate reason to justify the price of JAWS is the scripting support to make applications more accessible. First, we shouldn't need scripts. Scripts are band-aid solutions that temporarily solve problems. Developers should be making their apps more accessible by following guidelines, not being lazy and using scripting as an excuse. Second, I'm pretty sure NVDA add-ons can be used for the same purposes as JAWS scripts. I don't want to hear any of this security risk nonsense either. While it's technically true, you should be fine as long as you get them from a trustworthy source such as the official NVDA repository.So, in summary, Vispero is going to have to get with the times and change their old business model which is over 20 years old, or they will be left behind. I find it absurd that they're still charging for SMA upgrades now that Windows 10 is changing so quickly. I suppose it gives them an excuse to milk more money out of agencies that don't know any better. I think the annual subscription is nice, but it's far too late IMHO. Why couldn't they have done this 10 years ago? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423569/#p423569 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? No, I don't think this applies. Microsoft is still partnering with Vispero, NV Access, etc. I think NVDA will always be an option because it's free and is supported by the community thanks to its open source nature. The problem is JAWS/Magic/Zoom Text. What are the people at Vispero going to do if no one bothers purchasing their products in a few years because Narrator and NVDA are good enough for 99% of the tasks most people want to do?As far as I know, they can't stop Microsoft from building their own in house solutions. They might get butt hurt over it, but they're going to have to suck it up. Once again, I think it would be best if these people joined Microsoft. Imagine the amount of talent they could bring to the Narrator and Magnifier teams.Times are a changing, and unless Vispero change their business practices, they're going to be left behind. i'm sorry, but I really think that's going to happen in the not too distant future. Hopefully organizations will wake up and realize that they don't need to pay for an expensive solution like JAWS to access Microsoft Office and other commonly used programs in the workplace when Narrator and NVDA can do it for free.I've said this before, and I'll say it again. The only legitimate reason I can come up with to justify the price of JAWS is the scripting support to make applications more accessible. First, we shouldn't need scripts. Scripts are band-aid solutions that temporarily solve problems. Developers should be making their apps more accessible by following guidelines, not being lazy and using scripting as an excuse. Second, I'm pretty sure NVDA add-ons can be used for the same purposes as JAWS scripts. I don't want to hear any of this security risk nonsense either. While it's technically true, you should be fine as long as you get them from a trustworthy source such as the official NVDA repository.So, in summary, Vispero is going to have to get with the times and change their old business model which is over 20 years old, or they will be left behind. I find it absurd that they're still charging for SMA upgrades now that Windows 10 is changing so quickly. I suppose it gives them an excuse to milk more money out of agencies that don't know any better. I think the annual subscription is nice, but it's far too late IMHO. Why couldn't they have done this 10 years ago? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423569/#p423569 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? No, I don't think this applies. Microsoft is still partnering with Vispero, NV Access, etc. I think NVDA will always be an option because it's free and is supported by the community thanks to its open source nature. The problem is JAWS/Magic/Zoom Text. What are the people at Vispero going to do if no one bothers purchasing their products in a few years because Narrator and NVDA are good enough for 99% of the tasks most people want to do?As far as I know, they can't stop Microsoft from building their own in house solutions. They might get butt hurt over it, but they're going to have to suck it up. Once again, I think it would be best if these people joined Microsoft. Imagine the amount of talent they could bring to the Narrator and Magnifier teams.Times are a changing, and unless Vispero change their business practices, they're going to be left behind. i'm sorry, but I really think that's going to happen in the not too distant future. Hopefully organizations will wake up and realize that they don't need to pay for an expensive solution like JAWS to access Microsoft Office and other commonly used programs in the workplace when Narrator and NVDA can do it for free.I've said this before, and I'll say it again. The only legitimate reason I can come up with to justify the price of JAWS is the scripting support to make applications more accessible. First, we shouldn't need scripts. Scripts are band-aid solutions that temporarily solve problems. Developers should be making their apps more accessible by following guidelines, not being lazy and using scripting as an excuse. Second, I'm pretty sure NVDA add-ons can be used for the same purposes as JAWS scripts. I don't want to hear any of this security risk nonsense either. While it's technically true, you should be fine as long as you get them from a trustworthy sourcee such as the official NVDA repository.So, in summary, Vispero is going to have to get with the times and change their old business model which is over 20 years old, or they will be left behind. I find it absurd that they're still charging for SMA upgrades now that WIndows 10 is changing so quickly. I suppose it gives them an excuse to milk more money out of agencies that don't know any better. I think the annual subscription is nice, but it's far too late IMHO. WHy couldn't they have done this 10 years ago? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423569/#p423569 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? @7Mmm... Part of me wonders if including narrator as a default option could get Microsoft slapped with another [anti-trust lawsuit] the same way they did with pre-packaging internet explorer. If Narrator comes by default and has all the options of other screen readers, VFO or NVDA would be left out in the cold to Microsofts market dominance in that space. That might encourage them to make Narrator practical rather than awesome, but then again, is the accessibility for ones own product subject to market forces and competition? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423556/#p423556 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? @Flacus, it depends upon the price of the home anual license and whether it also counts upgrades to the software.if freedom scientific are prepared to settle for at most 100 a year upgrades included it might work out, if howere people are still having to pay £200 or so for upgrades on top of the yearly price then I doubt it. Office 365 probably represents the more expensive end of continuously paid software purchase that people are prepared to pay, and you can probably add a little onto that for the sake of it being specialist software, provided of course Jaws can offer a sufficiently superior experience to the free alternatives available, which is another question in and of itself. Myself, I jut wish Freedom scientific would stop all this ridiculous "well we'll offer a special license out of the goodnes of our hearts to people in some countries" and flat out drop the price out right. They've frankly had too much of a monopoly and a captive audience for too long, especially when Window eyes went down and with Dolphin no longer being a contender, and I for one will be very happy to see that change. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423520/#p423520 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? If the NVDA team works more seriously this year, I think more and more customers will be attracted to NVDA. I believe they should continue improving the support and performance for the Office package as well as fix focus issues on the web, and then more people are going to use it at work, at school, and other domains. When you are in an environment where you're the only one using an alternative technology to accomplish what other people are doing in a different way, you will certainly want to have something that works. JAWS has been reliable for so many years and still is, but we want NVDA to be the same as not everyone can afford JAWS, and not all schools can buy or know that there is a product for blind students that is called JAWS and can read to you. In most of the developing countries, the concept of screen reading technology is still quite unheard of so having a free and reliable screen reader is a great asset. I hope NVDA will cleverly know how to play the cards at this stage. 2019 is going to be a pretty interesting year! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423512/#p423512 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? If the NVDA team works more seriously this year, I think more and more customers will be attracted to NVDA. I believe they should continue improving the support and performance for the Office package as well as fix focus issues on the web, and then more people are going to use it at work, at school, and other domains. When you are in an environment where you're the only one using an alternative technology to accomplish what other people are doing in a different way, you will certainly want to have something that works. JAWS has been reliable for so many years and still is, but we want NVDA to be the same as not everyone can afford JAWS, and not all schools can buy or know that there is a product for blind students that is called JAWS and can read to you. In most of the developing countries, the concept of screen reading technology is still quite unheard of so having a free and reliable screen reader is a great asset. I hope NVDA will cleverly know how to play the cards at this stage. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423512/#p423512 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? The next few years are going to be very interesting indeed. Once Windows 10 becomes mainstream and Narrator has gained scripting abilities, there will be very few or no reasons to purchase JAWS. Considering that Freedom Scientific heavily relies on government agencies and schools for their sales, they're either going to change their business practices or stop development.Windows 10 will be the only option soon enough. Businesses don't want to use Windows 8, and Windows 7 support will be ending at the start of next year. Unless companies want to pay ridiculously high fees for custom support, everyone is going to move to Windows 10 which I say is a good thing. Now we can walk into any workplace and use their Windows computers right out of the box. It's about time microsoft got their act together and built a full-fledged screen reader. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423511/#p423511 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? The watermark idea reminds me of how the VocalEyes demo would work, after 20 minutes you'd still be able to use the machine but you couldn't really adjust the settings panel. So you wouldn't have to rush shutting down your machine, if you were in the middle of something you could save your work and shut down after you were done for the day, provided you didn't have to adjust anything. GW Micro, I feel, actually cared a bit more about its userbase then Jaws did. They always had a payment plan that, although you were paying a bit more in the end, it was stretched out reasonably, you were paying for an SMA along with the license itself. Which would take you through quite a few updates. And maintenance costs were not as steep, $50 or maybe $100 vs the $300 flat rate upgrade cost for Jaws. They even continued supporting older hardware - I could, for example, use my braille-n-speak2000 or my Dectalk Express with Window Eyes 9.0. And they had Window Eyes for free with MS Office, and while Office may be expensive on a consumer front, people are going to buy that eventually, and it's more than VFO would've ever done for Jaws users. And they probably did more to help other companies, considering they practically helped to bring Hims into the US market, translated a lot of their stuff and acted as soul distributor and hardware maintainer till Hims got their US office. And of course, VFO had to go and acquire AI Squared, which GW Micro was part of, and kill Window Eyes because they could. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423502/#p423502 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? sight and sound say the home annual license is coming to the UK, but I think it's too little too late. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423485/#p423485 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? Hurrah! glad the RNIB are finally getting their act together and realising just how blind customers are getting shafted with access tech. Last I heard they were still on the Jaws is thy god" trip.Personally, I would like to see freedom scientific massively drop the price. If an initial Jaws license was 100 quid, with a yearly maintenance cost of around 25-50, like other software such as C cleaner, then the price wouldn't be such a barrier, more people would use Jaws, and we'd see some actual competition and specialisation among programs. As it stands, narrator might be a viable alternative soon, NVdA already is on the personal level, and likely will be on the corporate level soon what with the emphasis on addon security in the latest version, and Freedom scientific are going to have to evolve or die, indeed I don't know how long Dolphin will keep going with Supernova given the massive quality hit its had since Windows 10 came out, though as I've talked about that enough elsewhere I'll not through it again. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423477/#p423477 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
2019-03-29
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : TheTrueSwampGamer via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? i agree with everyone here. Narrator's usability has grately improved for the past 8 years that i remember using it. I tried it on 8, 8.1, then i used it for everything i would use NVDA for a while on windows 10. It actually was ok and not as verbose in this PC (file Explorer), and with a monthly or yearly thing for jaws being $250.00 for each year for the license you buy, i feel like the free alternatives are getting to the point where Jaws doesn't have that much as a reason to be paid at this point. NVDA has scripting, Jaws ha scripting, Narrator doesn't but i feel like that doesn't matter. Accessibility is improving, and paid options are loosing the battle between paid and free to the free side of eSpeak and OneCore. Lets not forget that if you don't authorize jajws, its 40 minutes, then restart your computer. Issue with that is, thats dumb in my opinion. Maybe do what windows does with a water mark on the widow, and a message that pops up at launch. No scripting and no running custom scripts, and limited voices. I feel like there are things they can do that will justtify you paying $1500 up front of making that payment stretch out for a longer period of time and free updates blablabla. Lets also not forget that there yearly updates, you get 2 yearly upgrades for like $300.00. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423468/#p423468 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws?
Re: The beginning of the end for jaws? It can't. The only way it can is when the odball underground business scripts get used, which as more businesses switch to mainstream stuff, that leaves Salesforce and Cytrix as the main beneficiaries of Jaws. NVDA is also trying to get more friendly with corporations too, with a full corporate page explaining that, when enabled, the data collection is only minimal for diagnostics, that it's disabled by default, and a copy of the license agreement of course. I still think there should be an enterprise mode where you can configure a network installation of NVDA with only the addons you or the business wants, then addons cannot be installed, to prevent possible breaches through an unpythonic addon. But if Narrator keeps improving, there will be a point where Jaws is going to be heading towards that great business computer in the sky, lol. If Narrator ever gets scripting ability then jaws is for sure dead. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423463/#p423463 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
