Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Interpretation of Baptismal Record for Claudia, daughter of Florencia - Ponta Delgada, Flores 1806

[Kawika322]

Hi João, 

Thank you for all of the info as well. It is interesting how this family 
line produced several connections. I also have a Family Finder match who is 
descended from Maria Coelho (sister of Pedro Jose de Avelar (my direct 
ancestor), and of Faustino Jose de Avelar. 

I was thinking, there has to be a connection with the name surname Avelar 
that give a clue as to who the father of Pedro Jose, Faustino Jose, Monica 
Coelho and Maria de Jesus are. Their mother, Florencia Rosa, doesn't seem 
to be connected with the Avelar surname, so it is probably from the father. 
There are a couple individuals who may be the father from the town, but 
obviously I couldn't say for sure. 

In terms of tracking down Florencia, hopefully I will be able to find her 
death record, as well as the death record of her mother Maria Coelho a.k.a. 
Maria de Fraga Nunes. Would you guess that Maria de Fraga Nunes also came 
over from Corvo to Flores?

David

On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 8:16:21 AM UTC-7, João Ventura wrote:
>
> David,
>
> This is all amazing information. Thanks a lot! You're related to wife as 
> you can see in this relationship diagram from her to Florencia Rosa:
>
>
> http://venturas.org/familytree/relationship.php?ged=venturas=I5=I152
>
> This is all I know about her (and her children):
>
> http://venturas.org/familytree/family.php?famid=F60=venturas
>
> In this case I think that Maria de Fraga Nunes is also Maria Coelho. Women 
> didn't really have surnames at the time, and they basically had their 
> parents surnames or a religious one. 
>
> Such a lousy time for the CCA site to be offline..
>
> João C. Ventura
> http://tombo.pt/en
>
> On Tuesday, 6 October 2015 00:38:58 UTC+2, Kawika322 wrote:
>>
>> Eric, 
>>
>> I found the death record for Maria de Jesus - one of the other children 
>> of Florencia. It states that Florencia was a native of Corvo. Top right, 
>> No. 12
>>
>>
>> http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-O-1860-1870/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-O-1860-1870_item1/P83.html
>>
>> I have look through quite a few records and yet to find death record of 
>> Florencia, however I looked for her baptismal record (in Corvo) and the 
>> only thing I could find was this record: Left side, top record. 
>>
>>
>> http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/COR-VC-VILANOVADOCORVO-B-1742-1779/COR-VC-VILANOVADOCORVO-B-1742-1779_item1/P121.html
>>
>> The mother is listed as Maria de Fraga Nunes, and in the other records of 
>> Florencia's children, the mother of Florencia is listed as Maria Coelho, so 
>> I am not sure if this is the right one. However, it seems from looking 
>> through all the records, this is the only Florencia born on Corvo during 
>> the appropriate time frame to a single mother, so it very well could be the 
>> right one. 
>>
>> If you could let me know what you think it would be greatly appreciated. 
>>
>> Thanks, 
>>
>>  David
>>
>> On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 9:17:06 AM UTC-7, luiznoia wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here's a Santa Cruz, Flores marriage record of a Monica  :
>>>
>>>
>>> João Pimentel Canhoto [f.º de Manuel Pimentel Canhoto e de Inácia
>>> Rosa] c. 1816.08.12 c. Mónica Coelho [n. Ponta Delgada, Santa Cruz das
>>> Flores, f.ª de pai incógnito e de Florência Rosa].
>>>
>>>
>>> *If it's the same as in the baptism record, she'd be 20 yrs old*
>>>
>>>
>>> Here's Pedro Jose de Avelar's marriage record from  Lajes das Flores:
>>>
>>> Pedro José de Avelar [n. Ponta Delgada, Santa Cruz das Flores, f.º de
>>> pai incógnito e de Florência Maria] c. 1813.02.18 c. Úrsula Joaquina [f.ª
>>> de pai incógnito e de Isabel Maria].
>>>
>>> *If it was the same Pedro in the baptism record, he would be 20 years 
>>> old*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here are marriage records of children  of Florencia a single woman from 
>>> Ponta Delgada, Flores
>>>
>>> Faustino José de Avelar [f.º de pai incógnito e de Florência, mulher
>>> solteira] c. 1813.10.31 c. Úrsula Maria [f.ª de Joaquim de Sousa e de
>>> Mariana de Jesus].
>>>
>>> *I think this is the brother to Pedro Jose de Avelar*
>>>
>>>
>>> José Álvares [f.º de Manuel Álvares, j. d., e de Mariana de Jesus] c.
>>> 1813.11.25 c. Maria de Jesus [f.ª de pai incógnito e de Florência, mulher
>>> solteira].
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Eric Edgar
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 8:38 AM, luiznoia .  wrote:
>>>
 I think that tracking down Florencia's baptism record , obit, or the 
 marriage record of either Pedro or Monica could provide some confirmation. 
  
 I tend to think it is the same mother. 

 The 1792 to 1806 time frame would easily be in childbearing years. It 
 is also a time when many people left Corvo to settle in Flores. My 
 ancestor 
 , Joao Antonio Vieira was born to a single mother in Corvo in 1789

 and settled in Cedros by 1810.

  Slavery had been abolished in Continental Portugal in 1761, in Madeira 
 in 1775, and by 1800 

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Interpretation of Baptismal Record for Claudia, daughter of Florencia - Ponta Delgada, Flores 1806

[João Ventura]

David,

This is all amazing information. Thanks a lot! You're related to wife as 
you can see in this relationship diagram from her to Florencia Rosa:

http://venturas.org/familytree/relationship.php?ged=venturas=I5=I152

This is all I know about her (and her children):

http://venturas.org/familytree/family.php?famid=F60=venturas

In this case I think that Maria de Fraga Nunes is also Maria Coelho. Women 
didn't really have surnames at the time, and they basically had their 
parents surnames or a religious one. 

Such a lousy time for the CCA site to be offline..

João C. Ventura
http://tombo.pt/en

On Tuesday, 6 October 2015 00:38:58 UTC+2, Kawika322 wrote:
>
> Eric, 
>
> I found the death record for Maria de Jesus - one of the other children of 
> Florencia. It states that Florencia was a native of Corvo. Top right, No. 12
>
>
> http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-O-1860-1870/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-O-1860-1870_item1/P83.html
>
> I have look through quite a few records and yet to find death record of 
> Florencia, however I looked for her baptismal record (in Corvo) and the 
> only thing I could find was this record: Left side, top record. 
>
>
> http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/COR-VC-VILANOVADOCORVO-B-1742-1779/COR-VC-VILANOVADOCORVO-B-1742-1779_item1/P121.html
>
> The mother is listed as Maria de Fraga Nunes, and in the other records of 
> Florencia's children, the mother of Florencia is listed as Maria Coelho, so 
> I am not sure if this is the right one. However, it seems from looking 
> through all the records, this is the only Florencia born on Corvo during 
> the appropriate time frame to a single mother, so it very well could be the 
> right one. 
>
> If you could let me know what you think it would be greatly appreciated. 
>
> Thanks, 
>
>  David
>
> On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 9:17:06 AM UTC-7, luiznoia wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Here's a Santa Cruz, Flores marriage record of a Monica  :
>>
>>
>> João Pimentel Canhoto [f.º de Manuel Pimentel Canhoto e de Inácia
>> Rosa] c. 1816.08.12 c. Mónica Coelho [n. Ponta Delgada, Santa Cruz das
>> Flores, f.ª de pai incógnito e de Florência Rosa].
>>
>>
>> *If it's the same as in the baptism record, she'd be 20 yrs old*
>>
>>
>> Here's Pedro Jose de Avelar's marriage record from  Lajes das Flores:
>>
>> Pedro José de Avelar [n. Ponta Delgada, Santa Cruz das Flores, f.º de
>> pai incógnito e de Florência Maria] c. 1813.02.18 c. Úrsula Joaquina [f.ª
>> de pai incógnito e de Isabel Maria].
>>
>> *If it was the same Pedro in the baptism record, he would be 20 years old*
>>
>>
>>
>> Here are marriage records of children  of Florencia a single woman from 
>> Ponta Delgada, Flores
>>
>> Faustino José de Avelar [f.º de pai incógnito e de Florência, mulher
>> solteira] c. 1813.10.31 c. Úrsula Maria [f.ª de Joaquim de Sousa e de
>> Mariana de Jesus].
>>
>> *I think this is the brother to Pedro Jose de Avelar*
>>
>>
>> José Álvares [f.º de Manuel Álvares, j. d., e de Mariana de Jesus] c.
>> 1813.11.25 c. Maria de Jesus [f.ª de pai incógnito e de Florência, mulher
>> solteira].
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Eric Edgar
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 8:38 AM, luiznoia .  wrote:
>>
>>> I think that tracking down Florencia's baptism record , obit, or the 
>>> marriage record of either Pedro or Monica could provide some confirmation.  
>>> I tend to think it is the same mother. 
>>>
>>> The 1792 to 1806 time frame would easily be in childbearing years. It is 
>>> also a time when many people left Corvo to settle in Flores. My ancestor , 
>>> Joao Antonio Vieira was born to a single mother in Corvo in 1789
>>>
>>> and settled in Cedros by 1810.
>>>
>>>  Slavery had been abolished in Continental Portugal in 1761, in Madeira 
>>> in 1775, and by 1800 was on the wane in the Azores, being banned in 1830.
>>>
>>>
>>> The priest in the Claudia record of 1806, and the Monica record of 1796 
>>> is Domingo Bernardo da Sylvera
>>>
>>> The priest in the Pedro record of 1792 is Antonio Lourenco Coelho
>>>
>>> Eric Edgar
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 5:15 AM, Theresa Entin  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hi Depending on how common the name Florencia appears in the records 
 during that time frame of 13 years would determine to me if it was the 
 same 
 person.  If it appears as a very uncommon name, then I would say they were 
 the same person.  

 Also, In order to make a good determination, I would check ten years 
 prior to the birth of Pedro and 10 years after the birth of Claudia.

 Were you able to find the birth of Florencia, child of Maria in Corvo?  
 If Maria was also a slave, that would help solving the puzzle.


 On Sep 30, 2015, at 7:19 PM, Kawika322  wrote:

 There is a baptismal record I would like to have people's 
 interpretation on. The record is for a Claudia born 7 Jul 1806 in Sao 
 

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Interpretation of Baptismal Record for Claudia, daughter of Florencia - Ponta Delgada, Flores 1806

[Kawika322]

Eric, 

I found the death record for Maria de Jesus - one of the other children of 
Florencia. It states that Florencia was a native of Corvo. Top right, No. 12

http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-O-1860-1870/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-O-1860-1870_item1/P83.html

I have look through quite a few records and yet to find death record of 
Florencia, however I looked for her baptismal record (in Corvo) and the 
only thing I could find was this record: Left side, top record. 

http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/COR-VC-VILANOVADOCORVO-B-1742-1779/COR-VC-VILANOVADOCORVO-B-1742-1779_item1/P121.html

The mother is listed as Maria de Fraga Nunes, and in the other records of 
Florencia's children, the mother of Florencia is listed as Maria Coelho, so 
I am not sure if this is the right one. However, it seems from looking 
through all the records, this is the only Florencia born on Corvo during 
the appropriate time frame to a single mother, so it very well could be the 
right one. 

If you could let me know what you think it would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks, 

 David

On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 9:17:06 AM UTC-7, luiznoia wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Here's a Santa Cruz, Flores marriage record of a Monica  :
>
>
> João Pimentel Canhoto [f.º de Manuel Pimentel Canhoto e de Inácia
> Rosa] c. 1816.08.12 c. Mónica Coelho [n. Ponta Delgada, Santa Cruz das
> Flores, f.ª de pai incógnito e de Florência Rosa].
>
>
> *If it's the same as in the baptism record, she'd be 20 yrs old*
>
>
> Here's Pedro Jose de Avelar's marriage record from  Lajes das Flores:
>
> Pedro José de Avelar [n. Ponta Delgada, Santa Cruz das Flores, f.º de
> pai incógnito e de Florência Maria] c. 1813.02.18 c. Úrsula Joaquina [f.ª
> de pai incógnito e de Isabel Maria].
>
> *If it was the same Pedro in the baptism record, he would be 20 years old*
>
>
>
> Here are marriage records of children  of Florencia a single woman from 
> Ponta Delgada, Flores
>
> Faustino José de Avelar [f.º de pai incógnito e de Florência, mulher
> solteira] c. 1813.10.31 c. Úrsula Maria [f.ª de Joaquim de Sousa e de
> Mariana de Jesus].
>
> *I think this is the brother to Pedro Jose de Avelar*
>
>
> José Álvares [f.º de Manuel Álvares, j. d., e de Mariana de Jesus] c.
> 1813.11.25 c. Maria de Jesus [f.ª de pai incógnito e de Florência, mulher
> solteira].
>
>
>
>
> Eric Edgar
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 8:38 AM, luiznoia .  > wrote:
>
>> I think that tracking down Florencia's baptism record , obit, or the 
>> marriage record of either Pedro or Monica could provide some confirmation.  
>> I tend to think it is the same mother. 
>>
>> The 1792 to 1806 time frame would easily be in childbearing years. It is 
>> also a time when many people left Corvo to settle in Flores. My ancestor , 
>> Joao Antonio Vieira was born to a single mother in Corvo in 1789
>>
>> and settled in Cedros by 1810.
>>
>>  Slavery had been abolished in Continental Portugal in 1761, in Madeira 
>> in 1775, and by 1800 was on the wane in the Azores, being banned in 1830.
>>
>>
>> The priest in the Claudia record of 1806, and the Monica record of 1796 
>> is Domingo Bernardo da Sylvera
>>
>> The priest in the Pedro record of 1792 is Antonio Lourenco Coelho
>>
>> Eric Edgar
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 5:15 AM, Theresa Entin > > wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Depending on how common the name Florencia appears in the records 
>>> during that time frame of 13 years would determine to me if it was the same 
>>> person.  If it appears as a very uncommon name, then I would say they were 
>>> the same person.  
>>>
>>> Also, In order to make a good determination, I would check ten years 
>>> prior to the birth of Pedro and 10 years after the birth of Claudia.
>>>
>>> Were you able to find the birth of Florencia, child of Maria in Corvo?  
>>> If Maria was also a slave, that would help solving the puzzle.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 30, 2015, at 7:19 PM, Kawika322  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> There is a baptismal record I would like to have people's interpretation 
>>> on. The record is for a Claudia born 7 Jul 1806 in Sao Pedro, Ponta 
>>> Delgada, Flores. The mother is names Florencia, and I am trying to see if 
>>> she may be the same Florencia who is the mother of my direct ancestor Pedro 
>>> Jose Avellar who was born in 1793 in Ponta Delgada, Flores. I don't have 
>>> any more info on Florencia such as a birth or death record, except that her 
>>> mother's name is Maria Coelho from Corvo, which I got from the baptismal 
>>> records of her children Pedro and Monica. 
>>>
>>> If this is the same Florencia, her other children Pedro, and Monica, as 
>>> well as a Faustino (whom I cannot find a birth record for) all had pai 
>>> incognito fathers. 
>>>
>>> This particular record may have additional information that could help 
>>> me track down Florencia (if indeed it is the same woman). 
>>>
>>> Any info or 

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Interpretation of Baptismal Record for Claudia, daughter of Florencia - Ponta Delgada, Flores 1806

[Theresa Entin]

Hi Depending on how common the name Florencia appears in the records during 
that time frame of 13 years would determine to me if it was the same person.  
If it appears as a very uncommon name, then I would say they were the same 
person.  

Also, In order to make a good determination, I would check ten years prior to 
the birth of Pedro and 10 years after the birth of Claudia.

Were you able to find the birth of Florencia, child of Maria in Corvo?  If 
Maria was also a slave, that would help solving the puzzle.


> On Sep 30, 2015, at 7:19 PM, Kawika322  wrote:
> 
> There is a baptismal record I would like to have people's interpretation on. 
> The record is for a Claudia born 7 Jul 1806 in Sao Pedro, Ponta Delgada, 
> Flores. The mother is names Florencia, and I am trying to see if she may be 
> the same Florencia who is the mother of my direct ancestor Pedro Jose Avellar 
> who was born in 1793 in Ponta Delgada, Flores. I don't have any more info on 
> Florencia such as a birth or death record, except that her mother's name is 
> Maria Coelho from Corvo, which I got from the baptismal records of her 
> children Pedro and Monica. 
> 
> If this is the same Florencia, her other children Pedro, and Monica, as well 
> as a Faustino (whom I cannot find a birth record for) all had pai incognito 
> fathers. 
> 
> This particular record may have additional information that could help me 
> track down Florencia (if indeed it is the same woman). 
> 
> Any info or translation of what exactly the record says would be helpful. 
> 
> It is the record on the top right of the page: Claudia, no. 14:
> 
> http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813_item1/P209.html
>  
> 
> 
> The links for the baptismal records for my direct ancestor Pedro Jose Avellar 
> and his sister Monica Coelho (children of Florencia) are also below so that 
> people can compare and see if they might be the same Florencia or not. 
> 
> Pedro (1793) : top right of page, no. 20:
> 
> http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813_item1/P146.html
> 
> Monica (1796): middle record, left side of page, no. 17
> 
> http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813_item1/P158.html
> 
> 
>  Thanks, 
> 
>David
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Interpretation of Baptismal Record for Claudia, daughter of Florencia - Ponta Delgada, Flores 1806

[luiznoia .]

Here's a Santa Cruz, Flores marriage record of a Monica  :


João Pimentel Canhoto [f.º de Manuel Pimentel Canhoto e de Inácia
Rosa] c. 1816.08.12 c. Mónica Coelho [n. Ponta Delgada, Santa Cruz das
Flores, f.ª de pai incógnito e de Florência Rosa].


*If it's the same as in the baptism record, she'd be 20 yrs old*


Here's Pedro Jose de Avelar's marriage record from  Lajes das Flores:

Pedro José de Avelar [n. Ponta Delgada, Santa Cruz das Flores, f.º de
pai incógnito e de Florência Maria] c. 1813.02.18 c. Úrsula Joaquina [f.ª
de pai incógnito e de Isabel Maria].

*If it was the same Pedro in the baptism record, he would be 20 years old*



Here are marriage records of children  of Florencia a single woman from
Ponta Delgada, Flores

Faustino José de Avelar [f.º de pai incógnito e de Florência, mulher
solteira] c. 1813.10.31 c. Úrsula Maria [f.ª de Joaquim de Sousa e de
Mariana de Jesus].

*I think this is the brother to Pedro Jose de Avelar*


José Álvares [f.º de Manuel Álvares, j. d., e de Mariana de Jesus] c.
1813.11.25 c. Maria de Jesus [f.ª de pai incógnito e de Florência, mulher
solteira].




Eric Edgar


On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 8:38 AM, luiznoia .  wrote:

> I think that tracking down Florencia's baptism record , obit, or the
> marriage record of either Pedro or Monica could provide some confirmation.
> I tend to think it is the same mother.
>
> The 1792 to 1806 time frame would easily be in childbearing years. It is
> also a time when many people left Corvo to settle in Flores. My ancestor ,
> Joao Antonio Vieira was born to a single mother in Corvo in 1789
>
> and settled in Cedros by 1810.
>
>  Slavery had been abolished in Continental Portugal in 1761, in Madeira in
> 1775, and by 1800 was on the wane in the Azores, being banned in 1830.
>
>
> The priest in the Claudia record of 1806, and the Monica record of 1796 is
> Domingo Bernardo da Sylvera
>
> The priest in the Pedro record of 1792 is Antonio Lourenco Coelho
>
> Eric Edgar
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 5:15 AM, Theresa Entin 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Depending on how common the name Florencia appears in the records
>> during that time frame of 13 years would determine to me if it was the same
>> person.  If it appears as a very uncommon name, then I would say they were
>> the same person.
>>
>> Also, In order to make a good determination, I would check ten years
>> prior to the birth of Pedro and 10 years after the birth of Claudia.
>>
>> Were you able to find the birth of Florencia, child of Maria in Corvo?
>> If Maria was also a slave, that would help solving the puzzle.
>>
>>
>> On Sep 30, 2015, at 7:19 PM, Kawika322  wrote:
>>
>> There is a baptismal record I would like to have people's interpretation
>> on. The record is for a Claudia born 7 Jul 1806 in Sao Pedro, Ponta
>> Delgada, Flores. The mother is names Florencia, and I am trying to see if
>> she may be the same Florencia who is the mother of my direct ancestor Pedro
>> Jose Avellar who was born in 1793 in Ponta Delgada, Flores. I don't have
>> any more info on Florencia such as a birth or death record, except that her
>> mother's name is Maria Coelho from Corvo, which I got from the baptismal
>> records of her children Pedro and Monica.
>>
>> If this is the same Florencia, her other children Pedro, and Monica, as
>> well as a Faustino (whom I cannot find a birth record for) all had pai
>> incognito fathers.
>>
>> This particular record may have additional information that could help me
>> track down Florencia (if indeed it is the same woman).
>>
>> Any info or translation of what exactly the record says would be helpful.
>>
>> It is the record on the top right of the page: *Claudia*, no. 14:
>>
>>
>> http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813_item1/P209.html
>>
>>
>>
>> The links for the baptismal records for my direct ancestor Pedro Jose
>> Avellar and his sister Monica Coelho (children of Florencia) are also below
>> so that people can compare and see if they might be the same Florencia or
>> not.
>>
>> *Pedro *(1793) : top right of page, no. 20:
>>
>>
>> http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813_item1/P146.html
>>
>> *Monica *(1796)*: *middle record, left side of page, no. 17
>>
>>
>> http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813_item1/P158.html
>>
>>
>>  Thanks,
>>
>>David
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
>> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
>> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
>> membership."
>> ---
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Interpretation of Baptismal Record for Claudia, daughter of Florencia - Ponta Delgada, Flores 1806

[luiznoia .]

I think that tracking down Florencia's baptism record , obit, or the
marriage record of either Pedro or Monica could provide some confirmation.
I tend to think it is the same mother.

The 1792 to 1806 time frame would easily be in childbearing years. It is
also a time when many people left Corvo to settle in Flores. My ancestor ,
Joao Antonio Vieira was born to a single mother in Corvo in 1789

and settled in Cedros by 1810.

 Slavery had been abolished in Continental Portugal in 1761, in Madeira in
1775, and by 1800 was on the wane in the Azores, being banned in 1830.


The priest in the Claudia record of 1806, and the Monica record of 1796 is
Domingo Bernardo da Sylvera

The priest in the Pedro record of 1792 is Antonio Lourenco Coelho

Eric Edgar

On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 5:15 AM, Theresa Entin 
wrote:

> Hi Depending on how common the name Florencia appears in the records
> during that time frame of 13 years would determine to me if it was the same
> person.  If it appears as a very uncommon name, then I would say they were
> the same person.
>
> Also, In order to make a good determination, I would check ten years prior
> to the birth of Pedro and 10 years after the birth of Claudia.
>
> Were you able to find the birth of Florencia, child of Maria in Corvo?  If
> Maria was also a slave, that would help solving the puzzle.
>
>
> On Sep 30, 2015, at 7:19 PM, Kawika322  wrote:
>
> There is a baptismal record I would like to have people's interpretation
> on. The record is for a Claudia born 7 Jul 1806 in Sao Pedro, Ponta
> Delgada, Flores. The mother is names Florencia, and I am trying to see if
> she may be the same Florencia who is the mother of my direct ancestor Pedro
> Jose Avellar who was born in 1793 in Ponta Delgada, Flores. I don't have
> any more info on Florencia such as a birth or death record, except that her
> mother's name is Maria Coelho from Corvo, which I got from the baptismal
> records of her children Pedro and Monica.
>
> If this is the same Florencia, her other children Pedro, and Monica, as
> well as a Faustino (whom I cannot find a birth record for) all had pai
> incognito fathers.
>
> This particular record may have additional information that could help me
> track down Florencia (if indeed it is the same woman).
>
> Any info or translation of what exactly the record says would be helpful.
>
> It is the record on the top right of the page: *Claudia*, no. 14:
>
>
> http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813_item1/P209.html
>
>
>
> The links for the baptismal records for my direct ancestor Pedro Jose
> Avellar and his sister Monica Coelho (children of Florencia) are also below
> so that people can compare and see if they might be the same Florencia or
> not.
>
> *Pedro *(1793) : top right of page, no. 20:
>
>
> http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813_item1/P146.html
>
> *Monica *(1796)*: *middle record, left side of page, no. 17
>
>
> http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813_item1/P158.html
>
>
>  Thanks,
>
>David
>
>
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Interpretation of Baptismal Record for Claudia, daughter of Florencia - Ponta Delgada, Flores 1806

[luiznoia .]

While looking at obitos for Ponta Delagda, Flores, I noticed this almost
three page entry for Agostinho Antonio de Barcellos

http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-O-1770-1837/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-O-1770-1837_item1/P152.html


Possibly Florencia is mentioned in it.


Eric Edgar

On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 6:44 PM,  wrote:

> I doubt they are the same mother.  The priest baptizing Pedro and Monica
> identified the mother as Florencia, daughter of Maria Coelho from Corvo, a
> single woman with a mother.  The priest baptizing Claudia identified the
> mother as Florencia, a single mulata and slave of Agostinho Antonio de
> Barcellos and his wife Dona Maria Thereza with no mention of other family.
>
> If they are the same, the two priests sure regarded them differently.
>
> Bill Seidler
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Interpretation of Baptismal Record for Claudia, daughter of Florencia - Ponta Delgada, Flores 1806

[Kawika322]

Thanks for all the input everyone. I will have to do more searching.

Eric, thanks for checking those records. I had Pedro's, Monica's, and 
Faustino's marriage recs but not the one for Maria de Jesus. I haven't been 
able to find a birth rec for Faustino and will have to look for the one for 
Maria de Jesus, since I didn't know she existed. 

As for Florencia, I still need to find her birth and death recs. I looked 
through that long obit and she wasn't mentioned. 

Also, why we're people moving from Corvo to Flores?

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Interpretation of Baptismal Record for Claudia, daughter of Florencia - Ponta Delgada, Flores 1806

[luiznoia .]

Have you done DNA testing?  Most of my matches for Flores involve Avelar
ancestors.

Corvo was too rocky to provide enough food for the growing population.


Eric Edgar


On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Kawika322  wrote:

> Thanks for all the input everyone. I will have to do more searching.
>
> Eric, thanks for checking those records. I had Pedro's, Monica's, and
> Faustino's marriage recs but not the one for Maria de Jesus. I haven't been
> able to find a birth rec for Faustino and will have to look for the one for
> Maria de Jesus, since I didn't know she existed.
>
> As for Florencia, I still need to find her birth and death recs. I looked
> through that long obit and she wasn't mentioned.
>
> Also, why we're people moving from Corvo to Flores?
>
> --
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Interpretation of Baptismal Record for Claudia, daughter of Florencia - Ponta Delgada, Flores 1806

[Kawika322]

There is a baptismal record I would like to have people's interpretation 
on. The record is for a Claudia born 7 Jul 1806 in Sao Pedro, Ponta 
Delgada, Flores. The mother is names Florencia, and I am trying to see if 
she may be the same Florencia who is the mother of my direct ancestor Pedro 
Jose Avellar who was born in 1793 in Ponta Delgada, Flores. I don't have 
any more info on Florencia such as a birth or death record, except that her 
mother's name is Maria Coelho from Corvo, which I got from the baptismal 
records of her children Pedro and Monica. 

If this is the same Florencia, her other children Pedro, and Monica, as 
well as a Faustino (whom I cannot find a birth record for) all had pai 
incognito fathers. 

This particular record may have additional information that could help me 
track down Florencia (if indeed it is the same woman). 

Any info or translation of what exactly the record says would be helpful. 

It is the record on the top right of the page: *Claudia*, no. 14:

http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813_item1/P209.html
 


The links for the baptismal records for my direct ancestor Pedro Jose 
Avellar and his sister Monica Coelho (children of Florencia) are also below 
so that people can compare and see if they might be the same Florencia or 
not. 

*Pedro *(1793) : top right of page, no. 20:

http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813_item1/P146.html

*Monica *(1796)*: *middle record, left side of page, no. 17

http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813_item1/P158.html


 Thanks, 

   David


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[AZORES-Genealogy] Interpretation of Baptismal Record for Claudia, daughter of Florencia - Ponta Delgada, Flores 1806

[bsei2816]

I doubt they are the same mother.  The priest baptizing Pedro and Monica  
identified the mother as Florencia, daughter of Maria Coelho from Corvo, a 
single woman with a mother.  The priest baptizing Claudia identified the mother 
as Florencia, a single mulata and slave of Agostinho Antonio de Barcellos and 
his wife Dona Maria Thereza with no mention of other family.

If they are the same, the two priests sure regarded them differently.

Bill Seidler

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