Re: Upgraded from 8.72 to 9.5 and have a question about search from top

2010-05-01 Thread Charlie Garrison

Good afternoon,

On 30/04/10 at 5:44 PM -0700, douglerner dougler...@gmail.com wrote:


I just hate the non-modal search. It seems like a step backwards in
functionality for me. I don't see why it was necessary to remove
search-from-top from that.


Most people (including me) find the non-modal search a huge leap 
forward. And for those that don't there is an option to revert 
to the modal search.


The reason for removing 'start at top' from non-modal has been 
discussed on this list (many times over) so the archives should 
reveal detailed reasons for it. My understanding (or memory) is 
that each time you hit cmd-g the search would start at the top 
again, which would make 'find next' useless. And I think most 
people consider 'find next' more important than 'start at top'.



Charlie

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Re: Upgraded from 8.72 to 9.5 and have a question about search from top

2010-05-01 Thread Doug Lerner

On May 1, 2010, at 2:47 PM, Charlie Garrison wrote:

 Good afternoon,
 
 On 30/04/10 at 3:20 PM +0900, Doug Lerner d...@lerner.net wrote:
 
 On Apr 30, 2010, at 3:15 PM, Scout wrote:
 
 To start my search from the top, I use Cmd-Up Arrow before the search.
  Cmd-T or Cmd-Up are same number of keystrokes to me.
 
 I'm trying to get used to doing that. It's not really the same of course 
 because you must remember to do Cmd-Up before Cmd-F or you have to back out 
 of the Find window into the source window.
 
 How about creating an AppleScript which moves the cursor to the beginning of 
 the file (same as cmd-up arrow) and then start a search? And assign Cmd-T to 
 the AppleScript. Then you can use the same key shortcut you've always used.
 
 I've never wanted (or needed) to use the 'start from top' search option, so 
 I'm not sure how (im)practical the above solution would be. Seems to me like 
 it would work just fine though.

Hi, Charlie.

I decided to just use the advanced settings and have returned to the v8 modal 
Find for now. Using an AppleScript like you describe would, as you say, move 
the cursor to the beginning of the file, whether or not the search succeeds.

I like it where I don't lose my position if the search fails.

I honestly can't find any advantage to the non-modal Find. At least doing 
search the way I've grown accustomed to. All it does is seem to take away a 
feature I was used to.

I'm fine using the modal Find window. I can still use the other new 
find-related features such as (1) edit in the find all results panel and (2) 
live search. So things are ok now.

If they ever add back the start search from top feature to the non-modal Find 
window I might try that again. I don't understand why it was removed. It was 
useful, and surely not hurting anybody. :)

Thanks,

doug

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Re: Upgraded from 8.72 to 9.5 and have a question about search from top

2010-05-01 Thread Doug Lerner

On May 1, 2010, at 3:07 PM, Charlie Garrison wrote:

 Most people (including me) find the non-modal search a huge leap forward. And 
 for those that don't there is an option to revert to the modal search.

I know. I'm using the revert option. I honestly can't find an advantage to the 
non-modal search. All it seems to do is take away a feature I was using. :)

 
 The reason for removing 'start at top' from non-modal has been discussed on 
 this list (many times over) so the archives should reveal detailed reasons 
 for it. My understanding (or memory) is that each time you hit cmd-g the 
 search would start at the top again, which would make 'find next' useless. 
 And I think most people consider 'find next' more important than 'start at 
 top'.

That's what I read as well. Though I don't understand why that has to be the 
case. Why can't it work the way the modal find works - where it is reset after 
the first use anyway. In the modal search you have to Cmd-T to search from the 
top each time you enter. Otherwise you search from the current position.

Once you are in the non-modal find window why couldn't the same thing be 
possible? Just unset the search from top after the first search.

I guess I'm missing the logic here as to why that's not possible.

doug

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Re: Upgraded from 8.72 to 9.5 and have a question about search from top

2010-04-30 Thread Scout
To start my search from the top, I use Cmd-Up Arrow before the search.

Cmd-T or Cmd-Up are same number of keystrokes to me.

HTH

-scout

On Apr 28, 9:33 pm, douglerner dougler...@gmail.com wrote:
 If it doesn't exist, I could probably get by using the new find all
 feature. That searches from the top and you can edit in the search
 results window directly, which is convenient. The new live search
 also looks useful.

 doug

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Re: Upgraded from 8.72 to 9.5 and have a question about search from top

2010-04-30 Thread Doug Lerner

On Apr 30, 2010, at 3:15 PM, Scout wrote:

 To start my search from the top, I use Cmd-Up Arrow before the search.
 
 Cmd-T or Cmd-Up are same number of keystrokes to me.

I'm trying to get used to doing that. It's not really the same of course 
because you must remember to do Cmd-Up before Cmd-F or you have to back out of 
the Find window into the source window.

I don't understand the technical reason why they had to give up the feature. 
Somebody from support was telling me it was because it wouldn't work in the new 
non-modal Find windows - that each time you would end up searching from the top 
instead of going on to the next item. I'm not following why that has to be the 
case.

In the 8.72 modal window subsequent CMD+G searches didn't always return to the 
top. And you had to do a CMD+T each time you opened the Find window if you 
wanted to return to the top for the next search.

In the non-modal window why can't it be exactly the same thing? When you open 
the Find Window search from the top could be unselected (like it is in 8.72). 
CMD+T would turn on the search from top option and then turn itself off for 
subsequent CMD+G searches. That doesn't seem to be in contradiction with a 
non-modal Find window approach, and you wouldn't need to lose that 
functionality.

doug

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Re: Upgraded from 8.72 to 9.5 and have a question about search from top

2010-04-30 Thread douglerner
Another problem with using Cmd-Up first is that you end up always
changing your position in the file, regardless of whether the search
is successful or not.

With the previous method, you stayed where you were if the search
failed.

I don't understand why they had to drop that convenient feature from
the non-modal search. I feel myself stumbling every time I try to do
search now.

I know there is an advanced setting to go back to the old search, but
then it becomes non-supported and there could be other side-effects
of doing that.

(sigh)

doug


On Apr 30, 3:15 pm, Scout summitsc...@gmail.com wrote:
 To start my search from the top, I use Cmd-Up Arrow before the search.

 Cmd-T or Cmd-Up are same number of keystrokes to me.

 HTH

 -scout

 On Apr 28, 9:33 pm, douglerner dougler...@gmail.com wrote:





  If it doesn't exist, I could probably get by using the new find all
  feature. That searches from the top and you can edit in the search
  results window directly, which is convenient. The new live search
  also looks useful.

  doug

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Re: Upgraded from 8.72 to 9.5 and have a question about search from top

2010-04-30 Thread douglerner
I just ended up setting the modal find on and will try that for now.

At least in the new version if I use Find All I can edit in the found
panel, which is an improvement.

And the Live Search feature might be useful.

I just hate the non-modal search. It seems like a step backwards in
functionality for me. I don't see why it was necessary to remove
search-from-top from that.

doug

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Re: Upgraded from 8.72 to 9.5 and have a question about search from top

2010-04-30 Thread Charlie Garrison

Good afternoon,

On 30/04/10 at 3:20 PM +0900, Doug Lerner d...@lerner.net wrote:


On Apr 30, 2010, at 3:15 PM, Scout wrote:


To start my search from the top, I use Cmd-Up Arrow before the search.
  Cmd-T or Cmd-Up are same number of keystrokes to me.


I'm trying to get used to doing that. It's not really the same 
of course because you must remember to do Cmd-Up before Cmd-F 
or you have to back out of the Find window into the source window.


How about creating an AppleScript which moves the cursor to the 
beginning of the file (same as cmd-up arrow) and then start a 
search? And assign Cmd-T to the AppleScript. Then you can use 
the same key shortcut you've always used.


I've never wanted (or needed) to use the 'start from top' search 
option, so I'm not sure how (im)practical the above solution 
would be. Seems to me like it would work just fine though.



Charlie

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Re: Upgraded from 8.72 to 9.5 and have a question about search from top

2010-04-29 Thread douglerner
If it doesn't exist, I could probably get by using the new find all
feature. That searches from the top and you can edit in the search
results window directly, which is convenient. The new live search
also looks useful.

doug

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Re: Upgraded from 8.72 to 9.5 and have a question about search from top

2010-04-29 Thread Doug Lerner

On Apr 29, 2010, at 12:29 PM, Bill Rowe wrote:

 On 4/28/10 at 5:53 PM, dougler...@gmail.com (douglerner) wrote:
 
 I just upgraded from BBEdit 8.72 to BBEdit 9.5.
 
 In the new search, I notice I can't do the CMD+T to force the search
 to start from the top of the file anymore.
 
 Is there a way to do that?
 
 I know about the wrap option, but that's different.
 
 I don't have an answer to your question. But I am curious as to why you see 
 the wrap option as different. It you start a search from the start (top) of 
 a file it obviously searches the entire file stopping for a hit. If the wrap 
 option starts from where the cursor is and searches through the file wrapping 
 end to start till you get back to where the cursor is, isn't the end result 
 the same? What am I missing here?

Thanks for your reply

If you use wrap then you have to go through multiple next searches to get 
back to a result that is near the top of the file (if the search parameter 
appears multiple times, which it often does).

Up until now I've always used CMD+T before search so I can find first things 
first in the file and left off the CMD+T if I'm in the middle of a function 
and want to find the next occurrence from where I am.

But if I'm in the middle of the file and want to find the first occurrence, 
using wrap could take me through 15 or 20 successive searches of, say, a global 
variable before I wrap and end up at the top again.

So it's much different.

doug

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Re: Upgraded from 8.72 to 9.5 and have a question about search from top

2010-04-29 Thread Robert A. Rosenberg
At 20:29 -0700 on 04/28/2010, Bill Rowe wrote about Re: Upgraded from 
8.72 to 9.5 and have a question about se:



On 4/28/10 at 5:53 PM, dougler...@gmail.com (douglerner) wrote:


I just upgraded from BBEdit 8.72 to BBEdit 9.5.



In the new search, I notice I can't do the CMD+T to force the search
to start from the top of the file anymore.



Is there a way to do that?



I know about the wrap option, but that's different.


I don't have an answer to your question. But I am curious as to why 
you see the wrap option as different. It you start a search from 
the start (top) of a file it obviously searches the entire file 
stopping for a hit. If the wrap option starts from where the cursor 
is and searches through the file wrapping end to start till you get 
back to where the cursor is, isn't the end result the same? What am 
I missing here?


If the string you are looking for is the only occurrence or you are 
looking for all the occurrences, there is little difference since 
both will find the string. OTOH, if you are looking for a specific 
occurrence out of a number of occurrences (and know that it is or 
near the first occurrence) you want to start at the top and not 
wherever you current are (as would be the case with wrap). With wrap 
in this case, you would need get each occurrence displayed for you 
and need to reject them to go to the next in your search (and only 
find it once you have reached the end of the file and wrapped back to 
the top).


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Re: Upgraded from 8.72 to 9.5 and have a question about search from top

2010-04-29 Thread Bruce Van Allen

On 2010-04-29, Robert A. Rosenberg wrote:
At 20:29 -0700 on 04/28/2010, Bill Rowe wrote about Re: 
Upgraded from 8.72 to 9.5 and have a question about se:



On 4/28/10 at 5:53 PM, dougler...@gmail.com (douglerner) wrote:


I just upgraded from BBEdit 8.72 to BBEdit 9.5.



In the new search, I notice I can't do the CMD+T to force the search
to start from the top of the file anymore.



Is there a way to do that?



I know about the wrap option, but that's different.


I don't have an answer to your question. But I am curious as 
to why you see the wrap option as different. It you start a 
search from the start (top) of a file it obviously searches 
the entire file stopping for a hit. If the wrap option starts 
from where the cursor is and searches through the file 
wrapping end to start till you get back to where the cursor 
is, isn't the end result the same? What am I missing here?


If the string you are looking for is the only occurrence or you are
looking for all the occurrences, there is little difference since both
will find the string. OTOH, if you are looking for a specific
occurrence out of a number of occurrences (and know that it is or near
the first occurrence) you want to start at the top and not wherever you
current are (as would be the case with wrap). With wrap in this case,
you would need get each occurrence displayed for you and need to reject
them to go to the next in your search (and only find it once you have
reached the end of the file and wrapped back to the top).


I've gotten quite used to the new search/replace window; among 
other things the 
wapping-search-starting-from-wherever-the-cursor-is is now what 
I expect; there is a distinct visual signal when the wrap 
happens, going either direction, so it's easy to be sure of not 
missing something.


But for those cases when I do want to find the very first 
occurrence, I wrote a little applescript (wrote as in found an 
example somewhere) and attached a key combination to it:


tell application BBEdit
activate
find text of selection searching in every text of text 
document 1 options {starting at top:true, wrap around:false, 
backwards:false, case sensitive:true, match words:false, extend 
selection:false} with selecting match

end tell

With the options set this way, BBEdit will jump to the first 
occurrence of whatever was selected, and select it. You can then 
use the usual Use selection for find and Find selected text 
commands to jump through the file to the next occurrences. If 
you see the wrap signal, you've perused the whole file.


I bet the script could directly incorporate Use selection for 
find, saving a step...


I set Control-F as the key combination to call this script, 
because that's close to Command-F for find.


HTH.


   - Bruce

_bruce__van_allen__santa_cruz_ca_

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Re: Upgraded from 8.72 to 9.5 and have a question about search from top

2010-04-28 Thread Bill Rowe

On 4/28/10 at 5:53 PM, dougler...@gmail.com (douglerner) wrote:


I just upgraded from BBEdit 8.72 to BBEdit 9.5.



In the new search, I notice I can't do the CMD+T to force the search
to start from the top of the file anymore.



Is there a way to do that?



I know about the wrap option, but that's different.


I don't have an answer to your question. But I am curious as to 
why you see the wrap option as different. It you start a 
search from the start (top) of a file it obviously searches the 
entire file stopping for a hit. If the wrap option starts from 
where the cursor is and searches through the file wrapping end 
to start till you get back to where the cursor is, isn't the end 
result the same? What am I missing here?


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Re: Upgraded from 8.72 to 9.5 and have a question about search from top

2010-04-28 Thread Bucky Junior
There was a thread on this from September of 2008 titled 'What  
happened to Start at Top?' Probably more references as some people  
forgot to read it.


In version 9, you could change the behavior back to the V8 version in  
the preferences. I haven't gotten around to getting my point five  
update yet but imagine it still is there.


Try this link in the BBEdit-Talk archives. Plenty of discussion that  
should satisfy anyone's need to read.


Bucky





On Apr 28, 2010, at 9:29 PM, Bill Rowe wrote:


On 4/28/10 at 5:53 PM, dougler...@gmail.com (douglerner) wrote:


I just upgraded from BBEdit 8.72 to BBEdit 9.5.



In the new search, I notice I can't do the CMD+T to force the search
to start from the top of the file anymore.



Is there a way to do that?



I know about the wrap option, but that's different.


I don't have an answer to your question. But I am curious as to why  
you see the wrap option as different. It you start a search from  
the start (top) of a file it obviously searches the entire file  
stopping for a hit. If the wrap option starts from where the cursor  
is and searches through the file wrapping end to start till you get  
back to where the cursor is, isn't the end result the same? What am  
I missing here?


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