Re: BD 508 as inoculant; stinging nettle
In a message dated 2/27/02 9:21:44 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Steve, did I miss a list of beautiful beneficient fungus with the nicest fattest hyphae ? I assume you are speaking of mycorrhizal mycelium are there others? Also how are you going to keep those fat hyphae in suspension and how do you keep them from drying out after application? Or is it just spores you are spraying? By the By congratulations on the notoriety! There seems to be a particular fuungal variety with larger diameter hyphae that the soil food web recognizes as more beneficial than others. The hyphae grow as filaments in an aqueous solution and will spray out nicely. I am developing a compressed air sprayer to apply these remedies so as not to damage microbes. It is alright if they dessicate after soil contact, they will go dormant, or encyst or incorpoprate in the soil and revive at the appropriate time. SStorch
Re: BD 508 as inoculant; stinging nettle
Hi! All, Cassuarina stricta (Allocassuarins vinalarus) can also be used. This is the Drooping She Oak of SA Vic. It has the ability to take up huge amounts of silica. On granite country the timer can have up to 47% silica, dry weight, while on the mean calcareous soils, only one or two percent. We always include green She Oak foliage in all compost. Gil Stephen Barrow wrote: Cassuarina cunningham, a tree used for windbreaks, serves as a substitute for Equisetum in its anti-fungal role. I don't know if it will work as a sub for the prep. We have also used large grains, such as wheat, and oats, as green manures and primary materials in compost and mulches to specifically counter Phytophthora in avocados. The theory is that these grains (as well as Equisetum, Cassuarina, and stinging nettle) bind mineral silica organically, and then upon decomposition, realise the organic form (cf. mineral silica as in sand) for uptake by other plants, thereby strengthening cell walls and assisting in fungal resistance. I am planning to grow oats as a green manure this winter on the land which will be planted to spring potatoes to see if I get the same beneficial effect. Stephen Barrow -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 11:16 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: BD 508 as inoculant; stinging nettle Equisetum likes pond edges. I have not yet started my own crop but am working on it. Nettles is for weed suppression and flavor enhancement and nitrogen, it is not a sub for equisetum. I buy bulk fromm Bleesed Herb or JPI. sstorch
Re: BD 508 as inoculant; stinging nettle
What we are seeing is that equisetum tea used on an agar plate grows the most beautiful beneficient fungus with the nicest fattest hyphae of any other inoculant. These are the type of things we need to see in our soils to suppress the pathogenic fungi...sstorch What's this 'we,' Steve? Are you running a lab or are you working with someone? AND, that reminds me, what's the news on the Ingham testing of your preps that Christy mentioned in her report on the Future of Preps conference? thanks -Allan
Re: BD 508 as inoculant; stinging nettle
In a message dated 2/26/02 9:26:58 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What we are seeing is that equisetum tea used on an agar plate grows the most beautiful beneficient fungus with the nicest fattest hyphae of any other inoculant. These are the type of things we need to see in our soils to suppress the pathogenic fungi...sstorch What's this 'we,' Steve? Are you running a lab or are you working with someone? AND, that reminds me, what's the news on the Ingham testing of your preps that Christy mentioned in her report on the Future of Preps conference? The we is Soilfood Web Inc.[swi] testing what I prescribe for the fields. We are simply looking at the bd remedies through swi eyes and correlating to the processes involved. There is some funding for this through a vineyard I am consulting at. The report for the remedies were biologically high but I there has not been a written report yet...sstorch
Re: BD 508 as inoculant
Allan--- Steve - I've always been very happy using 508 as an anti-fungal spray 508 is not anti-fungal...it sets up the environment for beneficial fungus to grow. Sstorch Hi All, as I understand it equisetum was suggested for overcoming or conteracting excessive rainfall. It just so happens that what happens in the plant in such circumstances allows fungi to grow above the earth on the plant so equisetum tea brings more light activity round the plant, drying it out encouraging the fungi to develop where it properly belongs; in the soil. Sure, its a great life!! Peter.
Re: BD 508 as inoculant
Frank Teuton wrote: My understanding was that for trees it is preferred that fungi were predominant, for grasses bacteria is the preferred predominant. For veggies and flowers, and the like, I thought it was about 50% fungi and 50% bacteria. Did I misunderstand? Hi Bonnie, Yes it is more complicated than that. Among grasses, as among the row crop vegetables, there is a spectrum of needs and tolerances. Elaine discusses this in some of her audio CDs on the soil foodweb. For example, Poa pratensis, which we refer to as Kentucky bluegrass, is a grass which needs strong bacterial dominance. Fescues like it with more fungus, still bacterial but less so. And so on. Brassicas, says Ingham, are at the strong bacterial dominance end of the spectrum. I suppose this means that brassica root exudates select strongly for bacterial mutualists. In a rich organic soil with the presence of a suitable array of such bacteria, I assume that brassicas can have the bacterial services they seek, even if there are also a lot of fungus species/presence. The old JI Rodale literature contains several references to people who had rich composted soils that they were able to grow a wide spectrum of different plants in. The explanation offered, as I recall, was that compost/humus/soil organic matter had great buffering capacity (the pH thing). I think it is more likely that the rich, diverse foodweb in such composted soil had a full panoply of choices for each kind of plant to draw on in organizing microbial teams for its roots and leaves. Those teams could then mediate between the plants and the soil and get each plant what it needed. One thing I like about Ingham's stuff is she uses 'who' for organisms instead of 'what', as in 'let's see who's in there.' That suggests a sort of intimacy that we also of course need to have with our plants, as in not only are you a flower/veggie, but which one are you, which cultivar, what do you need from my growing? The bacterial/fungal dominance issue can only be part of our answers to those questions. Frank HI Frank Some plants seem to dominate there patch off ground and prevent others from growing is this because the can dominate their bacterial/fungal requirments to excude other plants? I am thinking of the fact that some plants are antagonist towards each other and do not like being planted together or after each other. Fascinating subject. Cheers Tony Robinson NewZealand
Re: BD 508 as inoculant; stinging nettle
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nettles is for weed suppression and flavor enhancement and nitrogen, Hi Steve How do nettles supress weeds? Thanks Tony Robinson New Zealand
Re: BD 508 as inoculant; stinging nettle
In a message dated 2/25/02 3:56:54 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Steve How do nettles supress weeds? Beats me, but the nettles manure tea [~10 days] seems to have a weed supressing effect, try it...sstorch
Re: BD 508 as inoculant; stinging nettle
Steve-- Seems like I have read somewhere that stinging nettle tea is a good substitute for equestem. True? The reason I ask is that we have a fine crop of nettle growing here and no equestem. If equestem is the only proper ingredient, can you provide some information on how it gorws, what it likes, etc. Thanks. Dorothy __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com
Re: BD 508 as inoculant
In a message dated 2/23/02 11:13:41 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Steve - I've always been very happy using 508 as an anti-fungal spray. I feel I've gotten incredible results using it that way. I assume you are recommending using it to knock back undesireable fungal populations before you innoculate with a manure-based prep. What sort of timeframe are you working with? I assume 24-hrs w.b. enough. This should make me REALLY re-think some of my rotational sprayings, shouldn't it? ;-) what say? 508 is not anti-fungal...it sets up the environment for beneficial fungus to grow. So if you are making compost tea, sfweb style, add equisetum and you have beneficial fungus in your tea, do not add equisetum and you get a less desirable result. Use equisetum in your barrel compost and you will have incredible populations of beneficial fungus that will spread through your soils when you spray. I think SFWeb sez that it is three days in the tea brewer to reach maximum populations of fungus...sstorch
Re: BD 508 as inoculant
Hey Allan, Yeah Elaine does be saying that, eh? My broc has always been real happy in the leaf compost/ wood chippy stuff I have here, and Eliot also notes that rototillering in leaves in the Fall is just dandy for brassicas in the spring, and leaves are sort of fungally foodish. Methinks that my foodweb is feasting fast enough to make all the necessary stuff broc is supposed to need, so that the broc roots have their fill at the smorgasbord. Then again, I have Lumbricus terrestris about every six inches or so here. These guys are the Sam Wittinghams of nutrient cycling. (Sam is the world record holder of human powered vehicles, 80+ mph---who says you need gas?) Elaine also says you can't have too many collembola. I hope she is right about that, as I gave out a whole lot of them with my vermicompost samples the other night, and told people to email Elaine if they had any problems.:-) Best part of the presentation was when someone put their nose into my milkcrate that had quasi-finished vermicompost and its makers in it. It smells like spring, she said happily. Spring, and springtails. Life is good. Frank Teuton Hey, Frank - What about the other side of this, Frank? I understood Elaine to say that we don't want to promote fungi in beds used for annual crops, like brocolli. I think we're coming to see all plants living in relationship with fungi, but doesn't Elaine pursue bacteria for annual vegetables at the expense of fungi? -Allan There are some 100,000 species of fungi, of which only a few are actually problematic, as I understand it. http://www.perspective.com/nature/fungi/ Maybe for the next episode of 'Ask Elaine' we could get her to run them down somewhat for us, and suggest the mundane things she knows of that would encourage the bennies and discourage the baddies. Equisetum to promote beneficial fungi, eh? Very interesting. Frank Allan--- Steve - I've always been very happy using 508 as an anti-fungal spray 508 is not anti-fungal...it sets up the environment for beneficial fungus to grow. Sstorch
