Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Standard Search results
Is this the full text search in 7.9? Maybe it is. Didn't realise that was going to be for normal searches. I thought that was something to do with a new search option or advanced search and the introduction of songs or albums results mode. Is there any way to turn it off? Perhaps not so bad if the search results with the search string in the title were to appear at the top of the results, but when I search for albums for rainbow to quickly locate A rainbow in curved air and end up with 51 album matches (eg. A Classic Case by Jethro Tull, Acoustic Love by Various Artists, Celestial Ocean by Brainticket, etc), then I find it not as useful in this case. Same if I do it through Touch. Search rainbow My Music Albums, returns the 51 matches, even though I have only 9 albums with rainbow in the title. I can still use Advanced search, which may be quicker for getting to an album that you know you want to play. Or type more in the search string (like the exact album name). Only that doesn't help when trying to get to Love by The Beatles :-) Although I am slightly confused. If I search albums for Love, I only seem to get albums with Love in the title (38 hits) less hits than searching for rainbow? I'd expect a lot more if it found albums containing songs with love in the title. If I search for Love in song titles, I get lots of hits (capped at 500?). Maybe it only does full text search if the search string is longer than 4 characters? Full text search may be useful in some situations, but less useful if you know what you are trying to find, IMO. Perhaps would be nice to have Search Artist / Album / Songs / Playlist / Full modes. Phil ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Standard Search results
That said: it's just as weird to search for a category, usually with a full-text search you would expect a result-agnostic search returning all kind of results and then maybe a way to filter what you get. No need for 27 different search boxes in a UI, one would be just fine... --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103008 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Standard Search results
Philip Meyer wrote: I'm not convinced I like it too much, TBH. A useful feature to have, but not as the default for Albums search. Sure _you_ are not convinced. But believe me, those other 99.9% of users out there just cried crap for the last 6 years because Squeezebox did anything other than full-text search. It's always difficult to change habits when one's got used to something but that doesn't change the fact that some things _have_ to change. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103008 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Standard Search results
Maybe you could share your library.db file with me, and I'll look in to the particularities of your data once I'm back. Sure, where would you like me to send it? Send me a link to a downloadable file to michael ät slimdevices dott com. Thanks! -- Michael ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Standard Search results
Hm, interesting thing about Love. Does that mean the band Love is never going to be found or did I misunderstand something? Ok, title was wrong/too simple. I meant to say album- or track-title (for albums or tracks, respectively) or the artist name (for artists). The value you'd find in the *SEARCH column for each item. -- Michael ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Standard Search results
Most likely it is. Your description sounds exactly like a FTS issue. Yes, I'm sure that's it now I have had a play. Perhaps not so bad if the search results with the search string in the title were to appear at the top of the results That _should_ be the case already. Are you running the latest 7.9 (or at least not older than after Christmas)? I did tune the result sorting at some point, to exactly do what you were looking for: bring direct matches in the title to the top of the list. I am on latest, pulled down 7.9 yesterday. I was surprised nobody commented on this behaviour before :-). LMS keeps a list of hot keywords, which would return massive result sets. Hmmm. Full text search may be useful in some situations, but less useful if you know what you are trying to find, IMO. Perhaps would be nice to have Search Artist / Album / Songs / Playlist / Full modes. As Pippin mentioned it's much less of a full text vs. normal search issue, rather than a how to bring the most relevant hit to the top challenge. Yahoo's directory is dead. Everybody is just using Google or Bing or whomever's full text search. I'm not convinced I like it too much, TBH. A useful feature to have, but not as the default for Albums search. I typically play albums. I have a lot, so I don't browse for the album I want to play, it is quicker to search for the title. It is much less often that I search for songs, and when i do search for a song its because I want to play it, not the whole album, so less often than that that I want to find an album that contains a word on a song. It seemed particularly strange when I selected on Touch interface Search Rainbow My Music Albums, as I had previously searched for artists and songs, which only search by artist title or song title. Full text search only applies to album and playlist search modes? Maybe you could share your library.db file with me, and I'll look in to the particularities of your data once I'm back. Sure, where would you like me to send it? ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Standard Search results
Hm, interesting thing about Love. Does that mean the band Love is never going to be found or did I misunderstand something? --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103008 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Standard Search results
Kind of remember these kind of issues from the infamous The The bug in iPeng 1.0.1 (iPeng 1.0 at the time did already contain special handling for The The but 1.0.1 re-introduced a bug that crashed the App if you had an album by The The and the App Store comments still have some references to that plus it got me into some nice discussions with Sonos fanboys at the time...) --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103008 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
[SlimDevices: Beta] Unable to add more than one additional repository
Under plugins tab on web UI I am unable to add more than one additional repository. It simply doesn't save the second entry when I press apply. Using nightly on debian (7.9.0~1421917265). Cheers, Matthew mattwire's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=62538 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103019 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Standard Search results
It's been mentioned in the forums I don't remember many conversations about search in all the time I've participated on the mailing list/forum. it's probably the #1 argument of people telling me what a crappy, outdated system the Squeezebox system is. Really? Ridiculous! In the example given for searching hurry love supremes such that Phil Collins doesn't come up, what's the harm of searching for hurry love and selecting one of the two hits returned. It's quicker than also typing supremes, especially on IR remote or touch keyboard! Or search for Power of love and get three hits (Frankie Goes To Hollywood, Jennifer Rush, Huey Lewis and the News). Not too taxing to select one of the three. But now it returns Sea Of Love by Cat Power, and curiously 4. Holier Than Thou (No Rest For The Best) - No Album - Frankie Goes To Hollywood (why? power of love is not in any of the metadata - I think because it appears in the file path?). So even power of love frankie which is more typing, doesn't reduce the result set to one hit. But people out there outside this forum use things like Spotify, Google Music, Amazon, SoundCloud, YouTube etc. and they are used to quite different standards than a search logic devised a decade ago. Well SoundCloud doesn't have albums, etc. Just a flat list of songs for a user account, so it's hardly a similar situation. I get that the modern generation don't play albums, they play songs and build playlists of songs. I probably come from a slightly older generation that prefers albums, as many of my albums flow as one continuous piece. Less of the 3 min pop song here, much of my music is progressive rock or electronic/ambient stuff. I guess the type of music and style it is listened to reflects on the types of searches that are required for a user. One type of search doesn't fit all. It would seem better to me to do it similar to other websites and applications. By default Search All, but provide a Search Artists, Albums, or Songs that only searches the respective titles. That's the Advanced Search, isn't it? No. That's only available in web UI, and additional clicks. Advanced search is useful, and previously I would use this to run more specific queries. But I always know if I am looking for an album (most frequently) or an artist or song title. Sure, that can get as complex, detailed, and specific as it wants to be, that's what it's for. Also, filters should be applied. I don't need to find across all types of entities and then filter the larger list down, I already know what I'm looking for. This *is* a topic that has come up many times before in the forum about browsing, where people complain about browse hierarchies, sorting, filtering, etc, and many people say they don't bother, as they either play random music or search for the thing they are looking for rather than page through/scroll a large list. That's probably how the search _should_ look like: you enter one term and immediately get fulltext results and if that's not what you are looking for you can apply filters to limit it to certain categories. That's rather fiddly on different interfaces. eg. SB2 with IR remote. That's what iTunes does, for example. Well, it can be used that way. Search, get a load of stuff back, and then select items to filter results until you find what you want. But it also doesn't prioritise matches, it sticks to the chosen sort order. Perhaps useful if you don't know what you are looking for or just trying to select something semi-randomly to play, and I do see merit in it sometimes. But in iTunes, I still search for a specific artist, album or song title, less results returned, and I find what I specifically want quicker. In iTunes, i want to find In Rainbows by Radiohead: If I search all for Rainbow, I get 192 songs, ordered and grouped by Album by Artist/Year. Scroll half way down results to find Radiohead/In Rainbows, or in column browser, scroll down list of artists to find Radiohead to filter results down further. If I search albums for Rainbow, I get 7 albums, and In Rainbows is 3rd in the list. Much quicker. I see that I can disable full text search plugin to restore original behaviour. It's a bit radical, because although I prefer the old behaviour by default as this is better for my daily needs, the full text search is good and of benefit some of the time. I go back to what I thought earlier; leave Search Aritsts, Albums, Songs as they used to work, but add a Search All as the default search that performs the full text search. It's more consistent with all other sites and apps that provide this feature. ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Standard Search results
Sure _you_ are not convinced. But believe me, those other 99.9% of users out there just cried crap for the last 6 years because Squeezebox did anything other than full-text search. I can't remember it being mentioned in the forum or bugzilla before. I'm not against full text search, it will have its uses, but it doesn't help me in my day to day use. If matching album titles appear at the top of the list before albums with only song matches, then it shouldn't detract as much as it is right now, it's just that I won't benefit 95% of the time by the extra hits in the results. I can live with that. But it doesn't quite seem to hang together and seems inconsistent with offering a type of thing to search for, some being full text, and others not. It would seem better to me to do it similar to other websites and applications. By default Search All, but provide a Search Artists, Albums, or Songs that only searches the respective titles. Discogs.com search does full text search, but it also provides search for releases (which only searches album titles), and artists. Similarly in iTunes and MusicIP, search by default does full text search returning artists, albums or songs. But selecting to search for albums only searches album titles. I think most sites are like this. To be honest, I felt the same when Windows 7 Explorer switched to a simplistic text search, compared to WinXP search. Every time I need to do a specific search I end up searching the internet to figure out what text monikers and wildcard formats I can enter to do the type of search I need; it's ghastly. ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Standard Search results
Philip Meyer wrote: I can't remember it being mentioned in the forum or bugzilla before. It's been mentioned in the forums, it ranks under the top 10 feature requests I get for iPeng and - most importantly - it's probably the #1 argument of people telling me what a crappy, outdated system the Squeezebox system is. And yes, there are such people. A lot of them. Probably not on this forum, because why would they come here. But people out there outside this forum use things like Spotify, Google Music, Amazon, SoundCloud, YouTube etc. and they are used to quite different standards than a search logic devised a decade ago. If matching album titles appear at the top of the list before albums with only song matches, then it shouldn't detract as much as it is right now, it's just that I won't benefit 95% of the time by the extra hits in the results. I can live with that. Well, I assume you've read my and Michael's comments above: sure it should be like that. But it doesn't quite seem to hang together and seems inconsistent with offering a type of thing to search for, some being full text, and others not. That, too, was also my point above. It would seem better to me to do it similar to other websites and applications. By default Search All, but provide a Search Artists, Albums, or Songs that only searches the respective titles. That's the Advanced Search, isn't it? Sure, that can get as complex, detailed, and specific as it wants to be, that's what it's for. Also, filters should be applied. That's probably how the search _should_ look like: you enter one term and immediately get fulltext results and if that's not what you are looking for you can apply filters to limit it to certain categories. That's what iTunes does, for example. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103008 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Standard Search results
Philip Meyer wrote: I'm not convinced I like it too much, TBH. A useful feature to have, but not as the default for Albums search. Yeah, I tested Full Text Search for a while and eventually came to the conclusion that I greatly prefer the simpler substring search behavior, so I disabled the plugin. I typically use the basic search to find an artist or album, or all recordings of a particular song. When I say find I don't mean it in the sense of a search engine ... I use it as the quickest means of getting to an artist or album. If I want to get to 'Miles Davis' I'll typically enter 'miles d' or even 's dav' and the search returns just one artist. IMO, Full Text Search might be more useful - meaning available for occasional use instead of being disabled completely - it almost needs to be selectable as a different type of search. Maybe make it an option to use for the basic search. Wen it's not being used, make it available similar to advanced search. JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103008 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Standard Search results
Well, I used to! I still get a list of artists that have the word Rainbow in their name, and Songs with Rainbow in their title. However, the Albums results includes albums where there are songs that contain Rainbow, irrespective of the album title. I think this is the result of a bug I introduced in the recent performance improvements for sub-libraries. If you were using a pre-Christmas build, the sort order would likely be correct. I'll look into this asap. -- Michael ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Standard Search results
Fulltext search is optional. Just disable the plugin if you don't like it. Am 28.01.2015 um 02:51 schrieb Phil Meyer s...@hergest.demon.co.uk: It's been mentioned in the forums I don't remember many conversations about search in all the time I've participated on the mailing list/forum. it's probably the #1 argument of people telling me what a crappy, outdated system the Squeezebox system is. Really? Ridiculous! In the example given for searching hurry love supremes such that Phil Collins doesn't come up, what's the harm of searching for hurry love and selecting one of the two hits returned. It's quicker than also typing supremes, especially on IR remote or touch keyboard! Or search for Power of love and get three hits (Frankie Goes To Hollywood, Jennifer Rush, Huey Lewis and the News). Not too taxing to select one of the three. But now it returns Sea Of Love by Cat Power, and curiously 4. Holier Than Thou (No Rest For The Best) - No Album - Frankie Goes To Hollywood (why? power of love is not in any of the metadata - I think because it appears in the file path?). So even power of love frankie which is more typing, doesn't reduce the result set to one hit. But people out there outside this forum use things like Spotify, Google Music, Amazon, SoundCloud, YouTube etc. and they are used to quite different standards than a search logic devised a decade ago. Well SoundCloud doesn't have albums, etc. Just a flat list of songs for a user account, so it's hardly a similar situation. I get that the modern generation don't play albums, they play songs and build playlists of songs. I probably come from a slightly older generation that prefers albums, as many of my albums flow as one continuous piece. Less of the 3 min pop song here, much of my music is progressive rock or electronic/ambient stuff. I guess the type of music and style it is listened to reflects on the types of searches that are required for a user. One type of search doesn't fit all. It would seem better to me to do it similar to other websites and applications. By default Search All, but provide a Search Artists, Albums, or Songs that only searches the respective titles. That's the Advanced Search, isn't it? No. That's only available in web UI, and additional clicks. Advanced search is useful, and previously I would use this to run more specific queries. But I always know if I am looking for an album (most frequently) or an artist or song title. Sure, that can get as complex, detailed, and specific as it wants to be, that's what it's for. Also, filters should be applied. I don't need to find across all types of entities and then filter the larger list down, I already know what I'm looking for. This *is* a topic that has come up many times before in the forum about browsing, where people complain about browse hierarchies, sorting, filtering, etc, and many people say they don't bother, as they either play random music or search for the thing they are looking for rather than page through/scroll a large list. That's probably how the search _should_ look like: you enter one term and immediately get fulltext results and if that's not what you are looking for you can apply filters to limit it to certain categories. That's rather fiddly on different interfaces. eg. SB2 with IR remote. That's what iTunes does, for example. Well, it can be used that way. Search, get a load of stuff back, and then select items to filter results until you find what you want. But it also doesn't prioritise matches, it sticks to the chosen sort order. Perhaps useful if you don't know what you are looking for or just trying to select something semi-randomly to play, and I do see merit in it sometimes. But in iTunes, I still search for a specific artist, album or song title, less results returned, and I find what I specifically want quicker. In iTunes, i want to find In Rainbows by Radiohead: If I search all for Rainbow, I get 192 songs, ordered and grouped by Album by Artist/Year. Scroll half way down results to find Radiohead/In Rainbows, or in column browser, scroll down list of artists to find Radiohead to filter results down further. If I search albums for Rainbow, I get 7 albums, and In Rainbows is 3rd in the list. Much quicker. I see that I can disable full text search plugin to restore original behaviour. It's a bit radical, because although I prefer the old behaviour by default as this is better for my daily needs, the full text search is good and of benefit some of the time. I go back to what I thought earlier; leave Search Aritsts, Albums, Songs as they used to work, but add a Search All as the default search that performs the full text search. It's more consistent with all other sites and apps that provide this feature. ___ beta mailing list
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Standard Search results
I think Michael will have to comment on the rules for sorting the results. That's usually the complicated aspect of full text search, getting the sorting right. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103008 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Standard Search results
Is this the full text search in 7.9? Maybe it is. Most likely it is. Your description sounds exactly like a FTS issue. Perhaps not so bad if the search results with the search string in the title were to appear at the top of the results That _should_ be the case already. Are you running the latest 7.9 (or at least not older than after Christmas)? I did tune the result sorting at some point, to exactly do what you were looking for: bring direct matches in the title to the top of the list. Although I am slightly confused. If I search albums for Love, I only seem to get albums with Love in the title (38 hits) less hits than searching for rainbow? I'd expect a lot more if it found albums containing songs with love in the title. If I search for Love in song titles, I get lots of hits (capped at 500?). Maybe it only does full text search if the search string is longer than 4 characters? I was surprised nobody commented on this behaviour before :-). LMS keeps a list of hot keywords, which would return massive result sets. Typically these are words like the or as you experienced, Love. In this case the search would _only_ return hits in the title, and none of the matches in artist names etc. This is simply to guarantee a quick response time, as processing hundreds or thousands of hits obviously is much slower than only a few dozens (or less hundreds :-)). Full text search may be useful in some situations, but less useful if you know what you are trying to find, IMO. Perhaps would be nice to have Search Artist / Album / Songs / Playlist / Full modes. As Pippin mentioned it's much less of a full text vs. normal search issue, rather than a how to bring the most relevant hit to the top challenge. Yahoo's directory is dead. Everybody is just using Google or Bing or whomever's full text search. Maybe you could share your library.db file with me, and I'll look in to the particularities of your data once I'm back. -- Michael ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] 7.9: another schema change is coming, causing a rescan
Fantastic! The improvement in searching really makes the google suggest style searching really work well for me. In the past if the search was too long the results would some times lag, and be in some in between state. Now I am able look for whole song titles and the results come back fast without having to resort to a traditional search. Thanks Michael! sander's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10737 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102970 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Standard Search results
Philip Meyer wrote: In the example given for searching hurry love supremes such that Phil Collins doesn't come up, what's the harm of searching for hurry love... For the third time: you are still arguing implementation details of something that is in alpha state at best against a principal concept. It's the last time I'm going to participate in it, it leads nowhere. It's like you can never fly across an ocean, that plane the wright brothers built came down after less than a mile. Well SoundCloud doesn't have albums, etc. It does have artists and named playlists which are used by a lot of artists to represent albums. And no, it does not just have a flat list of songs per user account. Also, SoundCloud was _one_ of my 5 or 6 examples which were already, well, just examples. There can't be life in this solar system, I looked at that planet called Mercury and it doesn't even have an atmosphere! No. That's only available in web UI Again, you are talking the current implementation... I don't need to find across all types of entities and then filter the larger list down, I already know what I'm looking for. Yep, but it's still more clicks to go there if you need to go to My Music-Search-Search for Albums than if you go to Search and if you get too many results than select a filter Albums. That's rather fiddly on different interfaces. eg. SB2 with IR remote. Why? You could even put the filters on shortcuts and it's a single press of a button. Still faster than browsing to the specific search menu first. Also, IR remotes and single-line displays are exactly the kind of stuff people refer to when talking about a crappy, outdated system. I know you like it that way but don't assume everybody else does. But in iTunes, I still search for a specific artist, album or song title, less results returned, and I find what I specifically want quicker. Hm, but that's exactly the logic you didn't like above. In iTunes, searching for albums is always a filter. It doesn't have an Search Albums menu or something, it only has a single search field where you can apply filters. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103008 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
