Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
and that's what I keep saying all the time - Adobe's local office imho needs a) a dedicated platform evangelism role for AU and NZ that reports directly into Ben Forta's evangelism team at Adobe corporate and b) more local knowledge within Adobe about CF so that they are actually enabled to support CF in a similar way as they do with Creative Suite, Flex and LiveCycle. Kai, how much detail can you add to those suggestions? How do you see each of these points working? just curious barry.b -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Adobe should already know these things...and if they don't then why don't they -Original Message- From: Barry Beattie [mailto:barry.beat...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, 30 May 2010 11:05 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet and that's what I keep saying all the time - Adobe's local office imho needs a) a dedicated platform evangelism role for AU and NZ that reports directly into Ben Forta's evangelism team at Adobe corporate and b) more local knowledge within Adobe about CF so that they are actually enabled to support CF in a similar way as they do with Creative Suite, Flex and LiveCycle. Kai, how much detail can you add to those suggestions? How do you see each of these points working? just curious barry.b -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
@Steve: you're assuming their view, Kai's view, and even yours, are the same. That may not be the case. On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 12:15 AM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: Adobe should already know these things...and if they don't then why don't they -Original Message- From: Barry Beattie [mailto:barry.beat...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, 30 May 2010 11:05 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet and that's what I keep saying all the time - Adobe's local office imho needs a) a dedicated platform evangelism role for AU and NZ that reports directly into Ben Forta's evangelism team at Adobe corporate and b) more local knowledge within Adobe about CF so that they are actually enabled to support CF in a similar way as they do with Creative Suite, Flex and LiveCycle. Kai, how much detail can you add to those suggestions? How do you see each of these points working? just curious barry.b -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
If their views are not the same then this whole discussion is futile -Original Message- From: Barry Beattie [mailto:barry.beat...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 31 May 2010 12:29 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet @Steve: you're assuming their view, Kai's view, and even yours, are the same. That may not be the case. On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 12:15 AM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: Adobe should already know these things...and if they don't then why don't they -Original Message- From: Barry Beattie [mailto:barry.beat...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, 30 May 2010 11:05 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet and that's what I keep saying all the time - Adobe's local office imho needs a) a dedicated platform evangelism role for AU and NZ that reports directly into Ben Forta's evangelism team at Adobe corporate and b) more local knowledge within Adobe about CF so that they are actually enabled to support CF in a similar way as they do with Creative Suite, Flex and LiveCycle. Kai, how much detail can you add to those suggestions? How do you see each of these points working? just curious barry.b -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
I kind of thought the whole point of a discussion was to try to merge disparate views. If there is perfect and complete agreement, not much need for a discussion - better just to go off down the pub instead :-) On May 30, 2010, at 10:32 AM, Steve Onnis wrote: If their views are not the same then this whole discussion is futile -Original Message- From: Barry Beattie [mailto:barry.beat...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 31 May 2010 12:29 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet @Steve: you're assuming their view, Kai's view, and even yours, are the same. That may not be the case. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
I can add as much detail as necessary to this if people who could make such a decision and move were interested. I don't think this mailing list is the right place though to collaboratively work on a job description for a platform/CF evangelism role in ANZ. Cheers Kai On 31/05/2010, at 1:05 AM, Barry Beattie wrote: and that's what I keep saying all the time - Adobe's local office imho needs a) a dedicated platform evangelism role for AU and NZ that reports directly into Ben Forta's evangelism team at Adobe corporate and b) more local knowledge within Adobe about CF so that they are actually enabled to support CF in a similar way as they do with Creative Suite, Flex and LiveCycle. Kai, how much detail can you add to those suggestions? How do you see each of these points working? -- Kai Koenig - Ventego Creative Ltd ph: +64 4 476 6781 - mob: +64 21 928 365 / +61 450 132 117 web: http://www.ventego-creative.co.nz blog: http://www.bloginblack.de twitter: http://www.twitter.com/agentK -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Yeah, I figured that was a good option for the night: http://yfrog.com/g0tpezj :) K I kind of thought the whole point of a discussion was to try to merge disparate views. If there is perfect and complete agreement, not much need for a discussion - better just to go off down the pub instead :-) On May 30, 2010, at 10:32 AM, Steve Onnis wrote: If their views are not the same then this whole discussion is futile -Original Message- From: Barry Beattie [mailto:barry.beat...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 31 May 2010 12:29 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet @Steve: you're assuming their view, Kai's view, and even yours, are the same. That may not be the case. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
LOL - figured you wouldn't need much prompting Kai! Best Wishes, Peter On May 30, 2010, at 5:41 PM, Kai Koenig wrote: Yeah, I figured that was a good option for the night: http://yfrog.com/g0tpezj :) K I kind of thought the whole point of a discussion was to try to merge disparate views. If there is perfect and complete agreement, not much need for a discussion - better just to go off down the pub instead :-) On May 30, 2010, at 10:32 AM, Steve Onnis wrote: If their views are not the same then this whole discussion is futile -Original Message- From: Barry Beattie [mailto:barry.beat...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 31 May 2010 12:29 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet @Steve: you're assuming their view, Kai's view, and even yours, are the same. That may not be the case. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
This kind of discussion has no value if there is no outcome though -Original Message- From: Peter Bell [mailto:pb...@systemsforge.com] Sent: Monday, 31 May 2010 1:42 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet I kind of thought the whole point of a discussion was to try to merge disparate views. If there is perfect and complete agreement, not much need for a discussion - better just to go off down the pub instead :-) On May 30, 2010, at 10:32 AM, Steve Onnis wrote: If their views are not the same then this whole discussion is futile -Original Message- From: Barry Beattie [mailto:barry.beat...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 31 May 2010 12:29 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet @Steve: you're assuming their view, Kai's view, and even yours, are the same. That may not be the case. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Yeah I agree with Steve there should be outcomes out of a debate like this. I'm not sure if Adobe is going to give us list of action points of what their plan is and how we fit into it by the end of the day/week. That being said I can only hope that at some point they will share it with us. So it would be nice to be given a date of when that would be. Even if this only shared with Adobe Partners. I think a date is not that much to ask for. Ross On 31/05/2010, at 11:29 AM, Barry Beattie wrote: strongly disagree, Steve. Who's to say that the intended audience ISN'T listening? Or that the collective view can't influence the thinking of the powers that be. Or that others can learn from such discussion. Besides, I was just asking for Kai's opinion - he's been around the block a few times, seen a few things. He brought it up and I was just asking that he expand his thoughts with a bit of detail. No harm in that is there? On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: This kind of discussion has no value if there is no outcome though cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Im not saying they are not listening. Things have been this way for a long time and many discussions have been had about the same topics and have even been bought up at places like webDu and such and still nothing seems to have changed. All of the discussions are valid and raise very valid points and we all agree that the status quo isn't enough though I honestly believe that not much will change. Adobe is a tools company which is why they push the creative suite products so much including flexthey are visual outcome products and they are easier to sell because you can see outcomes quicker where is CF isn't. Someone during this discussion said that Adobe in ANZ pushes more LifeCycle and those larger ticket items because they make more on them so if price pointing of products is an issue for them when it comes to marketing and penetration and CF is sitting in nomads land in the middle then why don't they drop the pricing down to creative suite land? You cant honestly say that the rd that goes into CF is so much more than the creative suit products that the price has to be so o much more than creative suite? The creative suite master collection which has pretty much every adobe creative tool in it comes in at $2599USD having 15 products where as CF Enterprise $7499USD for a single product (prices quoted from adobe website). Where is the logic in that? The way I see it, the problem covers every area of the businessmarketing, pricing, education, distribution and support, and I mean commercial enterprise level support here. The only area that has been addressed (though not fully) is distribution, and even then from my own personal experiences, if you genuinely are wanting to get involved in distributing the product it is nearly impossible to be able to do so unless you are some huge company. Gradually since Allaire days, through Macromedia and now with Adobe, the personal touch in dealing with support, sales and marketing staff for Adobe products has dwindled away to almost nothing and the utilisation of local partners is next to nothing. Example I did a search for Authorised Resellers in Victoria that sell CF and I only got 3 Gold level partners, one of which the partner website came up with a 404, the other one only had CF8 STD and the other site is down and is a US company, not an Australian company. I myself am a Bronze level partner, I do CF hosting and can distribute licenses in Australia yet no mention there and I am sure the same rings true for lots of other non-gold level partners. I mean to even be a gold level partner costs $7495USD. I then did a search for Aobe Partner relating to Coldfusion in Victoria and got only one, which is me, Inevative. Only 1? I would have thought there were more than that. Even Australia wide there are only 5 businesses listed there. There are a few more than that im sure of it! Daemon don't even promote they are a partner on their site anymore..are they still? WebQuem in Sydney have the Gold Level logo on their site and they were not even listed on the Adobe site at all. In the end my opinion is that Adobe are not doing enough to support its local partners and distributors in Australia and they need to start doing more. Like the saying goesIf you always do what you have always done you will always get what you have always gotten. Steve -Original Message- From: Barry Beattie [mailto:barry.beat...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 31 May 2010 9:29 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet strongly disagree, Steve. Who's to say that the intended audience ISN'T listening? Or that the collective view can't influence the thinking of the powers that be. Or that others can learn from such discussion. Besides, I was just asking for Kai's opinion - he's been around the block a few times, seen a few things. He brought it up and I was just asking that he expand his thoughts with a bit of detail. No harm in that is there? On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: This kind of discussion has no value if there is no outcome though -Original Message- From: Peter Bell [mailto:pb...@systemsforge.com] Sent: Monday, 31 May 2010 1:42 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet I kind of thought the whole point of a discussion was to try to merge disparate views. If there is perfect and complete agreement, not much need for a discussion - better just to go off down the pub instead :-) On May 30, 2010, at 10:32 AM, Steve Onnis wrote: If their views are not the same then this whole discussion is futile -Original Message- From: Barry Beattie [mailto:barry.beat...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 31 May 2010 12:29 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet @Steve: you're assuming their view, Kai's view, and even yours, are the same. That may not be the case. -- You
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
I doubt that will happen as that would mean some sort of accountability -Original Message- From: Ross Phillips [mailto:r...@fingersdancing.com] Sent: Monday, 31 May 2010 9:35 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet Yeah I agree with Steve there should be outcomes out of a debate like this. I'm not sure if Adobe is going to give us list of action points of what their plan is and how we fit into it by the end of the day/week. That being said I can only hope that at some point they will share it with us. So it would be nice to be given a date of when that would be. Even if this only shared with Adobe Partners. I think a date is not that much to ask for. Ross On 31/05/2010, at 11:29 AM, Barry Beattie wrote: strongly disagree, Steve. Who's to say that the intended audience ISN'T listening? Or that the collective view can't influence the thinking of the powers that be. Or that others can learn from such discussion. Besides, I was just asking for Kai's opinion - he's been around the block a few times, seen a few things. He brought it up and I was just asking that he expand his thoughts with a bit of detail. No harm in that is there? On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: This kind of discussion has no value if there is no outcome though cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Steve, Where re you searching? via Adobe's website? ot Google? Mark On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.auwrote: Example I did a search for Authorised Resellers in Victoria that sell CF and I only got 3 Gold level partners, one of which the partner website came up with a 404, the other one only had CF8 STD and the other site is down and is a US company, not an Australian company. I myself am a Bronze level partner, I do CF hosting and can distribute licenses in Australia yet no mention there and I am sure the same rings true for lots of other non-gold level partners. I mean to even be a gold level partner costs $7495USD. I then did a search for Aobe Partner relating to Coldfusion in Victoria and got only one, which is me, Inevative. Only 1? I would have thought there were more than that. Even Australia wide there are only 5 businesses listed there. There are a few more than that im sure of it! Daemon don't even promote they are a partner on their site anymore..are they still? WebQuem in Sydney have the Gold Level logo on their site and they were not even listed on the Adobe site at all. In the end my opinion is that Adobe are not doing enough to support its local partners and distributors in Australia and they need to start doing more. Like the saying goesIf you always do what you have always done you will always get what you have always gotten. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
on the Adobe website...via https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/partnerportal/index.cfm?loc=en%5Fxap _ From: Mark Mandel [mailto:mark.man...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 31 May 2010 10:48 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet Steve, Where re you searching? via Adobe's website? ot Google? Mark On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: Example I did a search for Authorised Resellers in Victoria that sell CF and I only got 3 Gold level partners, one of which the partner website came up with a 404, the other one only had CF8 STD and the other site is down and is a US company, not an Australian company. I myself am a Bronze level partner, I do CF hosting and can distribute licenses in Australia yet no mention there and I am sure the same rings true for lots of other non-gold level partners. I mean to even be a gold level partner costs $7495USD. I then did a search for Aobe Partner relating to Coldfusion in Victoria and got only one, which is me, Inevative. Only 1? I would have thought there were more than that. Even Australia wide there are only 5 businesses listed there. There are a few more than that im sure of it! Daemon don't even promote they are a partner on their site anymore..are they still? WebQuem in Sydney have the Gold Level logo on their site and they were not even listed on the Adobe site at all. In the end my opinion is that Adobe are not doing enough to support its local partners and distributors in Australia and they need to start doing more. Like the saying goesIf you always do what you have always done you will always get what you have always gotten. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
I'm jumping in late in this thread, so sorry if I'm repeating something already said. Shouldn't Adobe at least publish the state of Coldfusion in Australia for the benefit of the developers / partners / companies that work on the platform? I.e. how many installations, how big the the community is in Australia? If I knew that there was 10,000 CF 8 Installs in Aus, and 15,000 CF 9 installs, I would feel somewhat comfortable that the product by large is growing, so I can make own adjustments to my career path for example, or get into flex or whatever. Right now, I don't think Adobe lets us know if the product is growing / shrinking, at least from there perspective (licence sales).. Maybe I'm wrong. If I'm wrong, does anyone have states? On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.auwrote: on the Adobe website...via https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/partnerportal/index.cfm?loc=en%5Fxap -- *From:* Mark Mandel [mailto:mark.man...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Monday, 31 May 2010 10:48 AM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet Steve, Where re you searching? via Adobe's website? ot Google? Mark On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.auwrote: Example I did a search for Authorised Resellers in Victoria that sell CF and I only got 3 Gold level partners, one of which the partner website came up with a 404, the other one only had CF8 STD and the other site is down and is a US company, not an Australian company. I myself am a Bronze level partner, I do CF hosting and can distribute licenses in Australia yet no mention there and I am sure the same rings true for lots of other non-gold level partners. I mean to even be a gold level partner costs $7495USD. I then did a search for Aobe Partner relating to Coldfusion in Victoria and got only one, which is me, Inevative. Only 1? I would have thought there were more than that. Even Australia wide there are only 5 businesses listed there. There are a few more than that im sure of it! Daemon don't even promote they are a partner on their site anymore..are they still? WebQuem in Sydney have the Gold Level logo on their site and they were not even listed on the Adobe site at all. In the end my opinion is that Adobe are not doing enough to support its local partners and distributors in Australia and they need to start doing more. Like the saying goesIf you always do what you have always done you will always get what you have always gotten. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
So basically, there needs to be an update of the Partner portal - http://resellers.adobe.com/cgi-bin/user.cgi I'm sure we can push this to Adobe to get fixed. Mark On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.auwrote: on the Adobe website...via https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/partnerportal/index.cfm?loc=en%5Fxap -- *From:* Mark Mandel [mailto:mark.man...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Monday, 31 May 2010 10:48 AM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet Steve, Where re you searching? via Adobe's website? ot Google? Mark On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.auwrote: Example I did a search for Authorised Resellers in Victoria that sell CF and I only got 3 Gold level partners, one of which the partner website came up with a 404, the other one only had CF8 STD and the other site is down and is a US company, not an Australian company. I myself am a Bronze level partner, I do CF hosting and can distribute licenses in Australia yet no mention there and I am sure the same rings true for lots of other non-gold level partners. I mean to even be a gold level partner costs $7495USD. I then did a search for Aobe Partner relating to Coldfusion in Victoria and got only one, which is me, Inevative. Only 1? I would have thought there were more than that. Even Australia wide there are only 5 businesses listed there. There are a few more than that im sure of it! Daemon don't even promote they are a partner on their site anymore..are they still? WebQuem in Sydney have the Gold Level logo on their site and they were not even listed on the Adobe site at all. In the end my opinion is that Adobe are not doing enough to support its local partners and distributors in Australia and they need to start doing more. Like the saying goesIf you always do what you have always done you will always get what you have always gotten. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
returns the same results as the url i gave you _ From: Mark Mandel [mailto:mark.man...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 31 May 2010 11:24 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet So basically, there needs to be an update of the Partner portal - http://resellers.adobe.com/cgi-bin/user.cgi I'm sure we can push this to Adobe to get fixed. Mark On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: on the Adobe website...via https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/partnerportal/index.cfm?loc=en%5Fxap _ From: Mark Mandel [mailto:mark.man...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 31 May 2010 10:48 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet Steve, Where re you searching? via Adobe's website? ot Google? Mark On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: Example I did a search for Authorised Resellers in Victoria that sell CF and I only got 3 Gold level partners, one of which the partner website came up with a 404, the other one only had CF8 STD and the other site is down and is a US company, not an Australian company. I myself am a Bronze level partner, I do CF hosting and can distribute licenses in Australia yet no mention there and I am sure the same rings true for lots of other non-gold level partners. I mean to even be a gold level partner costs $7495USD. I then did a search for Aobe Partner relating to Coldfusion in Victoria and got only one, which is me, Inevative. Only 1? I would have thought there were more than that. Even Australia wide there are only 5 businesses listed there. There are a few more than that im sure of it! Daemon don't even promote they are a partner on their site anymore..are they still? WebQuem in Sydney have the Gold Level logo on their site and they were not even listed on the Adobe site at all. In the end my opinion is that Adobe are not doing enough to support its local partners and distributors in Australia and they need to start doing more. Like the saying goesIf you always do what you have always done you will always get what you have always gotten. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:cfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:cfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
@Mark I think Steve's point is why should the community tell Adobe their information is out of date. it's their portal, no? Shouldn't they know this? it's their relationship with their partners they should be actively engaging in, yes? On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Mark Mandel mark.man...@gmail.com wrote: So basically, there needs to be an update of the Partner portal - http://resellers.adobe.com/cgi-bin/user.cgi I'm sure we can push this to Adobe to get fixed. Mark On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: on the Adobe website...via https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/partnerportal/index.cfm?loc=en%5Fxap From: Mark Mandel [mailto:mark.man...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 31 May 2010 10:48 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet Steve, Where re you searching? via Adobe's website? ot Google? Mark On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: Example I did a search for Authorised Resellers in Victoria that sell CF and I only got 3 Gold level partners, one of which the partner website came up with a 404, the other one only had CF8 STD and the other site is down and is a US company, not an Australian company. I myself am a Bronze level partner, I do CF hosting and can distribute licenses in Australia yet no mention there and I am sure the same rings true for lots of other non-gold level partners. I mean to even be a gold level partner costs $7495USD. I then did a search for Aobe Partner relating to Coldfusion in Victoria and got only one, which is me, Inevative. Only 1? I would have thought there were more than that. Even Australia wide there are only 5 businesses listed there. There are a few more than that im sure of it! Daemon don't even promote they are a partner on their site anymore..are they still? WebQuem in Sydney have the Gold Level logo on their site and they were not even listed on the Adobe site at all. In the end my opinion is that Adobe are not doing enough to support its local partners and distributors in Australia and they need to start doing more. Like the saying goesIf you always do what you have always done you will always get what you have always gotten. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
I would be very interested to know how many actual Adobe partners and any level there are in Australia. Mark would you have access to this kind of information? -Original Message- From: Barry Beattie [mailto:barry.beat...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 31 May 2010 11:31 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet @Mark I think Steve's point is why should the community tell Adobe their information is out of date. it's their portal, no? Shouldn't they know this? it's their relationship with their partners they should be actively engaging in, yes? On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Mark Mandel mark.man...@gmail.com wrote: So basically, there needs to be an update of the Partner portal - http://resellers.adobe.com/cgi-bin/user.cgi I'm sure we can push this to Adobe to get fixed. Mark On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: on the Adobe website...via https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/partnerportal/index.cfm?loc=en%5Fxap From: Mark Mandel [mailto:mark.man...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 31 May 2010 10:48 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet Steve, Where re you searching? via Adobe's website? ot Google? Mark On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: Example I did a search for Authorised Resellers in Victoria that sell CF and I only got 3 Gold level partners, one of which the partner website came up with a 404, the other one only had CF8 STD and the other site is down and is a US company, not an Australian company. I myself am a Bronze level partner, I do CF hosting and can distribute licenses in Australia yet no mention there and I am sure the same rings true for lots of other non-gold level partners. I mean to even be a gold level partner costs $7495USD. I then did a search for Aobe Partner relating to Coldfusion in Victoria and got only one, which is me, Inevative. Only 1? I would have thought there were more than that. Even Australia wide there are only 5 businesses listed there. There are a few more than that im sure of it! Daemon don't even promote they are a partner on their site anymore..are they still? WebQuem in Sydney have the Gold Level logo on their site and they were not even listed on the Adobe site at all. In the end my opinion is that Adobe are not doing enough to support its local partners and distributors in Australia and they need to start doing more. Like the saying goesIf you always do what you have always done you will always get what you have always gotten. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Barry Beattie barry.beat...@gmail.comwrote: @Mark I think Steve's point is why should the community tell Adobe their information is out of date. it's their portal, no? Shouldn't they know this? it's their relationship with their partners they should be actively engaging in, yes? Agreed - they should know. However, we're all humans, people make mistakes, and in a large organisation, things can get overlooked. That being said, if all we did was stand around and tut-tut to ourselves about how things should be better - do you really think they would get fixed? Quite frankly, I don't really care WHY things are broken, I only care that they get fixed - and if we can find and suggest good ways that they can be fixed, then maybe we can instigate some change. Mark On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Mark Mandel mark.man...@gmail.com wrote: So basically, there needs to be an update of the Partner portal - http://resellers.adobe.com/cgi-bin/user.cgi I'm sure we can push this to Adobe to get fixed. Mark On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: on the Adobe website...via https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/partnerportal/index.cfm?loc=en%5Fxap From: Mark Mandel [mailto:mark.man...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 31 May 2010 10:48 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet Steve, Where re you searching? via Adobe's website? ot Google? Mark On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: Example I did a search for Authorised Resellers in Victoria that sell CF and I only got 3 Gold level partners, one of which the partner website came up with a 404, the other one only had CF8 STD and the other site is down and is a US company, not an Australian company. I myself am a Bronze level partner, I do CF hosting and can distribute licenses in Australia yet no mention there and I am sure the same rings true for lots of other non-gold level partners. I mean to even be a gold level partner costs $7495USD. I then did a search for Aobe Partner relating to Coldfusion in Victoria and got only one, which is me, Inevative. Only 1? I would have thought there were more than that. Even Australia wide there are only 5 businesses listed there. There are a few more than that im sure of it! Daemon don't even promote they are a partner on their site anymore..are they still? WebQuem in Sydney have the Gold Level logo on their site and they were not even listed on the Adobe site at all. In the end my opinion is that Adobe are not doing enough to support its local partners and distributors in Australia and they need to start doing more. Like the saying goesIf you always do what you have always done you will always get what you have always gotten. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.auwrote: I would be very interested to know how many actual Adobe partners and any level there are in Australia. Mark would you have access to this kind of information? No... strangely enough I don't get inside information into Adobe's partners and resellers ;) I'm surprised that resellers and partners don't throw up a bit more of a stink if they aren't listed on there. Or maybe people don't even notice? Mark -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Quite frankly, I don't really care WHY things are broken, you should - because even if it's fixed, it'll be unfixed given enough time. It's the underlying causes that's broken. The portal is just a symptom. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Symptom of what then? If it's a symptom of a greater problem between Adobe and partners/resellers - maybe we can propose some solutions to help alleviate that. Mark On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Barry Beattie barry.beat...@gmail.comwrote: Quite frankly, I don't really care WHY things are broken, you should - because even if it's fixed, it'll be unfixed given enough time. It's the underlying causes that's broken. The portal is just a symptom. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On 31/05/2010, at 11:19 AM, Brett Herford-Fell wrote: I.e. how many installations, how big the the community is in Australia? A Google search returns 5.6 million cfm pages in Australia. A few years back there were 4,500 distinct .au domains serving ColdFusion pages, which were served from 1,422 distinct IP addresses - I posted an earlier list of domains on cfaussie. Many were hosted at Webcentral or in the US - remember that a site hosted overseas or on (especially overloaded) shared hosting servers is invisible as far as Adobe Australia is concerned. I have reminded (remound, harranged, waved hands at etc) people of this many times before - if you want to support ColdFusion in Australia, host or buy your licenses HERE. Yes it's a bit more expensive, but so is drinking sustainable coffee or clothing not made by slave labour. If the small difference in price threatens the viability of your site, I'd suggest there is something wrong with your business model... Finally remember that the CF community is a lot bigger than the cfaussie mailing list - think of all the people who turn up to CFObjective who otherwise do not participate in user groups or the list. Cheers, Robin ROBIN HILLIARD Chief Technology Officer ro...@rocketboots.com.au RocketBoots Pty Ltd Level 11 189 Kent Street Sydney NSW 2001 Australia Phone +61 2 9323 2507 Facsimile +61 2 9323 2501 Mobile +61 418 414 341 www.rocketboots.com.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On 31/05/2010, at 11:47 AM, Steve Onnis wrote: Why are they not sourcing the info directly from the reseller system? Because you signed up with Express Data, not Adobe. When you signed up with Express Data there was nothing to say that you did it to sell ColdFusion - you might be selling MS Office, Lacie hard drives or Logitec mice. As far as RocketBoots Adobe partnership goes, we don't get many leads through the partner portal so it's not our first priority to keep it up to date (it gets updated yearly with the partnership renewal). We do like advertising our relationship with Adobe via the partner logo on our site, and value our relationship with the local ANZ team. The software licenses also seem to arrive at same time as a new intern or employee, so that's quite useful too. Robin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On 31/05/2010, at 11:36 AM, Mark Mandel wrote: I think Steve's point is why should the community tell Adobe their information is out of date. It's not Adobe's information, it's the partners. Partners can update their information at any time. Robin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Robin I am signed up with both. I am a Bronze level Adobe partner and an Express Data reseller -Original Message- From: Robin Hilliard [mailto:ro...@rocketboots.com.au] Sent: Monday, 31 May 2010 12:12 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet On 31/05/2010, at 11:47 AM, Steve Onnis wrote: Why are they not sourcing the info directly from the reseller system? Because you signed up with Express Data, not Adobe. When you signed up with Express Data there was nothing to say that you did it to sell ColdFusion - you might be selling MS Office, Lacie hard drives or Logitec mice. As far as RocketBoots Adobe partnership goes, we don't get many leads through the partner portal so it's not our first priority to keep it up to date (it gets updated yearly with the partnership renewal). We do like advertising our relationship with Adobe via the partner logo on our site, and value our relationship with the local ANZ team. The software licenses also seem to arrive at same time as a new intern or employee, so that's quite useful too. Robin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
They are Adobe partners and if Adobe had more contact with their partners they would know what is going on. Having 2 out of the 3 websites listed not accessible when searching for partners and resellers is not helping the cause -Original Message- From: Robin Hilliard [mailto:ro...@rocketboots.com.au] Sent: Monday, 31 May 2010 12:13 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet On 31/05/2010, at 11:36 AM, Mark Mandel wrote: I think Steve's point is why should the community tell Adobe their information is out of date. It's not Adobe's information, it's the partners. Partners can update their information at any time. Robin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
I think we are barking up the wrong tree. Adobe do no less marketing than JSP or PHP and they are still popular. Sure .NET do more, but Microsoft can afford to. ColdFusion isn't mainstream, it's never going to be mainstream, it's growth in use is probably only reflective of how many additional people are doing web development, not because it's more popular than year X. But I don't pick a technology based on popularity or marketing and shiny brochures. I pick one that does the job I need and offers me something. So while it would be nice if Adobe did more in Australia, it won't have any significant impact, even in the Firmware days ColdFusion wasn't mainstream. The reason it isn't main stream, is the cost, Adobe can argue this however they like, but if ColdFusion were free 10+ years ago, I think ColdFusion would be mainstream now. It's too late now, even if made free, it would need to both be free and heavily marketed, which cost wise probably doesn't make sense. It will be interesting to see how Adobe handle the proposed Server Side ActionScript marketing and pricing. It will be interesting to see if Railo can succeed, from what I can tell New Atlanta BlueDragon has failed. Regards Dale Fraser http://dale.fraser.id.au http://cfmldocs.com http://learncf.com http://flexcf.com -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Onnis Sent: Monday, 31 May 2010 11:48 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet Why are they not sourcing the info directly from the reseller system? If I join up to be a reseller I shouldn't have to be manually added into the reseller system and then into the website so I can be found for searching. And in addition to that, as a paying partner member if I google adobe coldfusion partner australia I would atleast expect to get people listed as partners on the adobe website but I don't. -Original Message- From: Barry Beattie [mailto:barry.beat...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 31 May 2010 11:40 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet Quite frankly, I don't really care WHY things are broken, you should - because even if it's fixed, it'll be unfixed given enough time. It's the underlying causes that's broken. The portal is just a symptom. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
This is why I strongly believe that Adobe should move the CFML Engine into the Open Source market, the others(Railo/openBD etc.) can decide to help Adobe improve this or even get more support from the community by doing this. The language itself would be up to date, and released more often. The rest of ColdFusion that makes life a bit easier can be modularized, which would allow Adobe to focus more on that than the actual engine. Providing better PDF support, Reports etc., would be an area that Adobe can then begin releasing more modules and better improved modules over time. I maintain that this should have happened a long time ago, the core CFML Engine should come with no restrictions on threads etc and Adobe can still package this up with an Enterprise package support program for those who wish to spend the money for that much needed support. But the CFML Engine should be released into the open source market, so it can grow at the same rate as other technologies and languages and not be hindered by a 2 year turn around for updates, patches and enhancements. As this is not a good thing for this language in any way shape or form, it will just keep ColdFusion behind other languages. Wishful thinking I know, but Adobe must know that they could provide more this way and provide better modules/plugins into other applications they own. Like getting the server side to run scripts to do photo manipulation with template scripts into PhotoShop. The imagination of what could be achieved with modules and the rest of Adobes suite of Applications will become endless as they can release that module when it is ready, and not be hindered by other modules. Adobe are you listening? You have a suite of Applications that no other language can leverage of, but you are bogged down by long release cycles that see very little integration into the server for you applications suite. On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 12:31 PM, Dale Fraser d...@fraser.id.au wrote: The reason it isn't main stream, is the cost, Adobe can argue this however they like, but if ColdFusion were free 10+ years ago, I think ColdFusion would be mainstream now. It's too late now, even if made free, it would need to both be free and heavily marketed, which cost wise probably doesn't make sense. Regards Dale Fraser http://dale.fraser.id.au http://cfmldocs.com http://learncf.com http://flexcf.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Also a thought, might be worth a shot setting up a directory service of some kind of Coldfusion Freelancers/Contractors in Australia... Might actually do something herebut not just CF, maybe something general to cover more than just CF -Original Message- From: KC Kuok [mailto:kck...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 31 May 2010 12:25 PM To: cfaussie Subject: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet On May 31, 7:39 am, Kai Koenig k...@koeni.de wrote: I can add as much detail as necessary to this if people who could make such a decision and move were interested. I don't think this mailing list is the right place though to collaboratively work on a job description for a platform/CF evangelism role in ANZ. Cheers Kai Yup I agree with Kai, I think as a group we are all in agreement the CF vendors (esp Adobe) could do more spreading the CF and expanding the market in ANZ, if they want to talk details i am sure any partners or even any CF developers would be happy to give feedback. There is not much point thinking/talking/planning about actual details (in detail) till Adobe (or Railo) show more interest and invite people who are invested into CF expanding in the region to a working group. @Steve, Mark, Barry Regarding symptoms, it is a sign of a broken system, i.e. no Adobe employee is accountable for CF in ANZ, hence it gets overlooked, I mean if I was management looking for the number of sellers and partners for CF i will assume that CF is dead in ANZ judging from those results... If you need us to sign some online petition/work on an open letter/ spam email and telephone calls to Adobe AU just give the word... Also a thought, might be worth a shot setting up a directory service of some kind of Coldfusion Freelancers/Contractors in Australia... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Not sure on the value of my contribution or if at this stage we can say anything that will be anything that has not been said already. From someone who started in a CF shop, did the whole Spectra thing, worked through the studio moving to .NET, and then moved into a .NET-centric studio after, for me the ongoing cost of hosting was a deal breaker. The CF argument against .asp used to be that it did things out of the box that were painful in .asp (database connections, emailing), but not so sure that is as solid anymore. Chad who has been trying to go mainstream himself, but ended up as a bit of a creek or tributary On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 12:31 PM, Dale Fraser d...@fraser.id.au wrote: I think we are barking up the wrong tree. Adobe do no less marketing than JSP or PHP and they are still popular. Sure .NET do more, but Microsoft can afford to. ColdFusion isn't mainstream, it's never going to be mainstream, it's growth in use is probably only reflective of how many additional people are doing web development, not because it's more popular than year X. But I don't pick a technology based on popularity or marketing and shiny brochures. I pick one that does the job I need and offers me something. So while it would be nice if Adobe did more in Australia, it won't have any significant impact, even in the Firmware days ColdFusion wasn't mainstream. The reason it isn't main stream, is the cost, Adobe can argue this however they like, but if ColdFusion were free 10+ years ago, I think ColdFusion would be mainstream now. It's too late now, even if made free, it would need to both be free and heavily marketed, which cost wise probably doesn't make sense. It will be interesting to see how Adobe handle the proposed Server Side ActionScript marketing and pricing. It will be interesting to see if Railo can succeed, from what I can tell New Atlanta BlueDragon has failed. Regards Dale Fraser http://dale.fraser.id.au http://cfmldocs.com http://learncf.com http://flexcf.com -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Onnis Sent: Monday, 31 May 2010 11:48 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet Why are they not sourcing the info directly from the reseller system? If I join up to be a reseller I shouldn't have to be manually added into the reseller system and then into the website so I can be found for searching. And in addition to that, as a paying partner member if I google adobe coldfusion partner australia I would atleast expect to get people listed as partners on the adobe website but I don't. -Original Message- From: Barry Beattie [mailto:barry.beat...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 31 May 2010 11:40 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet Quite frankly, I don't really care WHY things are broken, you should - because even if it's fixed, it'll be unfixed given enough time. It's the underlying causes that's broken. The portal is just a symptom. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
I believe Adobe should start out with getting some CF talent into the Consultancy arm in ANZ so that more Flex based projects can(should) have a CF backend, and also at the start (assuming not enough CF work via the Consultancy) primarily evangelising to NON-CF folks (Schools, Startup UGs), Just for the sake of clarification and to avoid confusion - contrary to popular believe there is no Adobe Consulting in the Pacific region (not sure about the overall AsiaPac situation - iirc there's an Adobe Consulting office in Singapore). All consulting-type work in this region is done by partners. What you prob. think of is technical pre-sales or technical sales - or even evangelism. And I'd agree with that and that's what I keep saying all the time - Adobe's local office imho needs a) a dedicated platform evangelism role for AU and NZ that reports directly into Ben Forta's evangelism team at Adobe corporate and b) more local knowledge within Adobe about CF so that they are actually enabled to support CF in a similar way as they do with Creative Suite, Flex and LiveCycle. Cheers Kai -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 16:27, KC Kuok kck...@gmail.com wrote: ... Adobe doesn't even have any australian run events which they run themselves, I think Adobe AU or even ANZ will benefit from a compact conference where they can have a show and tell what has just recently come out and what is going to come out...To put it bluntly marketing wise in Adobe That's not true. Adobe just finished running an event in Perth. They've been to all the major cities in Australian and New Zealand. Sure it for CS5, but you can't say they're not doing anything here. Plus they did sponsor WebDu and Cf Object (ANZ). Chris -- Chris Velevitch Manager - Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney m: 0415 469 095 www.apugs.org.au Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney May 2010: OpenZoom and DVCSes Date: 31st May 6pm for 6:30 start Details and RSVP on http://apugs.groups.adobe.com/index.cfm?event=post.displaypostid=22263 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
And the local REFRESH events are held all over Australia, and I don't think I haven't been to one in which CF wasn't mentioned. So actually - that is something that they do do to push CF to non-CF'ers in ANZ. Mark On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Chris Velevitch chris.velevi...@gmail.comwrote: On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 16:27, KC Kuok kck...@gmail.com wrote: ... Adobe doesn't even have any australian run events which they run themselves, I think Adobe AU or even ANZ will benefit from a compact conference where they can have a show and tell what has just recently come out and what is going to come out...To put it bluntly marketing wise in Adobe That's not true. Adobe just finished running an event in Perth. They've been to all the major cities in Australian and New Zealand. Sure it for CS5, but you can't say they're not doing anything here. Plus they did sponsor WebDu and Cf Object (ANZ). Chris -- Chris Velevitch Manager - Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney m: 0415 469 095 www.apugs.org.au Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney May 2010: OpenZoom and DVCSes Date: 31st May 6pm for 6:30 start Details and RSVP on http://apugs.groups.adobe.com/index.cfm?event=post.displaypostid=22263 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On 27/05/2010, at 9:51 PM, Barry Beattie wrote: Half a dozen people sitting in a 3 day short-course delivered by a private training provider is as much as you can expect, methinks. You certainly couldn't do that every week for the instructor to pay their mortgage... And I'm reasonably familiar with how well that works as a business ;-). Robin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
I should be allowed to share some details on our strategy for ColdFusion X (albeit under NDA). I think this is one of the problems with CF, with competing technologies (especially OSS) you often know what is coming in the next release before development is even started on it. I've had management ask me before whats in the next release will the product have x like xyz product already has and its always the same answer adobe isn't going to tell us or hint for another year I'd rather Adobe tell us what will be in it and then at release time tell us what ended up being left out then being all secretive about implementing stuff that is usually already in competing products out on the market, then at the last minute telling us whats in it. NDA's etc are really pointless, the competition will go to any conference and know whats in it, clients will be more happy knowing what might get left out then what is in it at the last minute. this is where companies like Railo are starting to leave CF behind, you actually speak to the developers of the product and they'll tell you oh thats good we'll look at implementing that in one of the next releases. CF I can't talk about it or exactly when in 2 years time the next release will be. CF needs smaller more frequent releases, just like 9.0.1 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
I think your missing the point of coldfusion, the days of massive features are over. Cf is based on Java these days. Anything is possible. If your stuck selling on the next big thing, your lost It's 2010, your not constrained by the platform. It's a cop out IMHO to say anything else Cf9 was a big release, the frameworks are moving fast and you can leverage lots of other technology with CF. CF is still very RAD easy to learn and flexible. If your a capable developer you can start from scratch and kick goals really quickly. On 28 May 2010 18:57, M@ Bourke m.electronic.at.sym...@gmail.com wrote: I should be allowed to share some details on our strategy for ColdFusion X (albeit under NDA). I think this is one of the problems with CF, with competing technologies (especially OSS) you often know what is coming in the next release before development is even started on it. I've had management ask me before whats in the next release will the product have x like xyz product already has and its always the same answer adobe isn't going to tell us or hint for another year I'd rather Adobe tell us what will be in it and then at release time tell us what ended up being left out then being all secretive about implementing stuff that is usually already in competing products out on the market, then at the last minute telling us whats in it. NDA's etc are really pointless, the competition will go to any conference and know whats in it, clients will be more happy knowing what might get left out then what is in it at the last minute. this is where companies like Railo are starting to leave CF behind, you actually speak to the developers of the product and they'll tell you oh thats good we'll look at implementing that in one of the next releases. CF I can't talk about it or exactly when in 2 years time the next release will be. CF needs smaller more frequent releases, just like 9.0.1 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
the days of massive features are over. hence reason they should bring out more releases more often instead of larger releases every 2 years, adobe is falling behind the competition on there own product. multiple things being introduced in cf 9.0.1 have been out in openBD and railo for quite a while. if enterprise doesn't want to risk upgrading to smaller upgrades often then they can simply hold out and upgrade when ever they feel like it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
ReMix is relatively cheap, gives you a chance to update on the new things that MS is bring out this year, and a place where the local evangelists try to spread the word and convert the masses over. Adobe doesn't even have any australian run events which they run themselves, I think Adobe AU or even ANZ will benefit from a compact conference where they can have a show and tell what has just recently come out and what is going to come out...To put it bluntly marketing wise in Adobe That is not entirely true; ReMix is imho not comparable with MAX in the US. ReMix instead sits somewhere in between a full-blown conference and Adobe's free Refresh events (that re-cap the Adobe MAX conferences). Re Adobe's one AU run events: There was a CS 5 roadshow recently, there's Refresh and there are a variety of other smaller events. Also they sponsor webDU and cf.Objective(ANZ) as well as Flashcamps (I assume the sponsorships are at least partly managed by Adobe US). If you're saying there's nothing from Adobe in AU and NZ particularly geared towards CF - that's what I would agree with. Cheers Kai -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 1:57 AM, M@ Bourke m.electronic.at.sym...@gmail.com wrote: this is where companies like Railo are starting to leave CF behind, you actually speak to the developers of the product and they'll tell you oh thats good we'll look at implementing that in one of the next releases. That's more a function of size. People used to say that about Allaire back in the and I have to say I've always found the CF team engineers to be pretty receptive to new ideas (heck, onMissingMethod() came about after an informal chat with one of the CF engineers at a conference!). CF needs smaller more frequent releases, just like 9.0.1 I believe Adam is on record as saying he's pushing for more frequent releases. The main difference between a commercial product and an open source product is that with a commercial product you only see the official releases whereas with an open source product you see pretty much every build. If you look at just the formal releases of Railo and OpenBD, they happen on a much longer cycle than you might think... -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/ An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Andrew Myers am2...@gmail.com wrote: I agree with what you say about us being the ones in the trenches. Like I said in an earlier post, I sometimes have to try and justify even within my organisation the use of CF, and it's not always easy - I would really benefit from some kind of support resources to help me with this. Perhaps they are out there and I just haven't found them. Have you seen the ColdFusion Evangelism Kit that Adobe put out? That's a pretty good pitch to managers. Adobe have also published some more detailed comparisons between technologies showing the benefits of CFML - which is also summarized in the evangelism kit so it depends how much detail you want. A lot of the anti CF people also don't like it because it's a proprietary technology. This is where I really think things like Railo can really help the uptake of CF. We are certainly seeing some people moving to Railo rather than abandoning CFML altogether because they have some sort of mandate for open source. It's obviously better to keep them in the CFML community than lose them to some other technology. We also see people coming in via jboss.org who are open source folks who wouldn't have considered CFML before. And, yes, realistically, there are going to be people who choose Railo purely on price because they don't want to spend money. We see folks who are running older versions of ColdFusion who didn't pay maintenance and now won't pay for upgrades - Railo provides them an option to modernize their code. Naturally we prefer folks who choose Railo for reasons other than price since our business model is about support and consulting - and folks who won't pay Adobe aren't likely to pay us either :) -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/ An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On 27/05/2010, at 11:59 AM, mpicker wrote: We still haven't been able to fill your web developer position (for those playing at home, Justin left here years ago), despite 3 or 4 rounds of advertising. We only just finished another round. One of our contractors (lots of Flex and some CF experience) is based in Bathurst and hails from Dubbo*, send me a job description offline. On the other hand the whole point of CF is that it's easy to pick up, why not get someone experienced in another web langugage like PHP and train them up - if they're good they should start being useful after a few days. That's where new CF developers come from (Just in case you missed that talk with your parents). Robin * I actually used to live at the south end of Obley Rd, in fact so south that it was in Cumnock, sort of a satellite town of Dubbo... ROBIN HILLIARD Chief Technology Officer ro...@rocketboots.com.au RocketBoots Pty Ltd Level 11 189 Kent Street Sydney NSW 2001 Australia Phone +61 2 9323 2507 Facsimile +61 2 9323 2501 Mobile +61 418 414 341 www.rocketboots.com.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On 27/05/2010, at 4:34 AM, Justin Carter wrote: Adobe could solve by getting their (existing) CF educational materials into colleges and universities. This is easy to say, and much more complex in reality. Firstly I would be worried about a University that listened to vendors to decide what languages they were going to use to teach their students computer science and basic programming - and CF is not the language for this. Luckily I didn't come across one when I was at Macromedia trying to do this with CF. TAFEs have a different problem. Teaching specific technologies is part of their brief. There is some limited curriculum material available (based on the commercial courses) for vocational colleges to teach using the Adobe products, but what TAFEs need are teachers with the skills to teach these languages. For instance Crows Nest TAFE used to teach ColdFusion because they had someone there (I think Warren Finch?) who could. Adobe can't magic these people into being - they have to come from the community. If you're a contractor or a full timer looking to moonlight as an evening instructor, have you considered approaching your local TAFE or community college and offering to run a web development course? Emma Jones (nee Steer, some of you may remember her as the Canberra Macromedia UG manager for several years) has been having some success with Flash and the local TAFEs around Wangaratta. Maybe someone with some pedagogical bent could start a wiki for lesson plans and extra course material and ideas for people who wanted to get into this. If the reason isn't due to a lack of available CF developers then it's really something that is out of our hands as a community (I think?) No, it's definitely something the community can do something about (if it really wants to) Adobe either needs to get Evangelists or Sales people talking to more CEO's/CIO's or to spend some cash in relevant publications to get the ColdFusion brand out there again. This is not how CEOs and CIOs make decisions, and Adobe don't put ads in papers because they know they don't work - it's a great way to spend a marketing budget, but not a good way to get results. I know, I tried with Macromedia's money once and it was rather embarrassing. Having active user groups and big conferences makes a big difference. Our presence at events in the broader web community helps. It's constant cosmic background radiation to reassure people that we're around. Robin ROBIN HILLIARD Chief Technology Officer ro...@rocketboots.com.au www.rocketboots.com.au RocketBoots Pty Ltd Level 11 189 Kent Street Sydney NSW 2001 Australia Phone +61 2 9323 2507 Facsimile +61 2 9323 2501 Mobile +61 418 414 341 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
TAFEs have a different problem. Teaching specific technologies is part of their brief. There is some limited curriculum material available (based on the commercial courses) for vocational colleges to teach using the Adobe products, but what TAFEs need are teachers with the skills to teach these languages. me me me. That's how I was brought, kicking and screaming, to CF - I had to teach it. I've been looking, Robin, but no TAFE's are looking for experienced and qualified CF teachers in my city. You hear of one? let me know, OK? Adobe can't magic these people into being - they have to come from the community. If you're a contractor or a full timer looking to moonlight as an evening instructor, have you considered approaching your local TAFE or community college and offering to run a web development course? Emma Jones (nee Steer, some of you may remember her as the Canberra Macromedia UG manager for several years) has been having some success with Flash and the local TAFEs around Wangaratta. Maybe someone with some pedagogical bent could start a wiki for lesson plans and extra course material and ideas for people who wanted to get into this. I would have thought that a barometer to do that would be the strength of short courses delivering this. Brisbane North TAFE (my employer until earlier this year) has sewn up the TAFE short course scene with their Adult Community Education courses (over a weekend or so). But to be honest, they get more go from lead-lighting and wine appreciation than computer languages. It's a Micky-Mouse operation and practically anyone can offer something to them. If they reckon their cut is worthwhile, they might listen. The only other way courses could be delivered out of the TAFE system is either accredited (you get a qualification - CertIII,Cert IV, Dip) and CF would be one platform to learn on or non-accredited specialist short courses. Both delivered out of faculty, not third-party (you have teachers with tenure to consider here). FYI Brisbane Nth (Ithaca campus) has IMHO the best reputation for IT for all the Brisbane TAFE's. I've designed courses while at QANTM up to Diploma level (it's not hard if you know what you're doing) that incorporated CF. There is a real need to do pre-testing before admittance - an aptitude test. At QANTM any Diploma course, the hard break-even (class size/enrollments) was 12. 15 was a soft break-even that got you some cred to get resources. Class sizes of 20 or more guaranteed it would run next year. Two or more classes of 20 means they would look at a mid-year intake as well. I was never able to get those numbers so the course couldn't fly (and that was with 3 languages - CF, PHP and ASP.NET/C# - on two platforms - Linux and Win - with a decent section on Flash/Flex apps and a bit on video streaming). Half a dozen people sitting in a 3 day short-course delivered by a private training provider is as much as you can expect, methinks. You certainly couldn't do that every week for the instructor to pay their mortgage... my opinion only. No cents offered here. I've none left. barry.b -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Would have been a lively meeting i'm sure :) Not saying it applies in this case, I think there is a belief that if developers for a particular technology are scarce they cost more, if they're plentiful they cost less (in theory). .NET has appealed to some I've worked for because they can always tells us they are one day going to send all our work offshore. I don't necessarily subscribe to this point of view myself but I think it's how On 27/05/2010, at 10:38 PM, Dale Fraser d...@fraser.id.au wrote: Interestingly enough we had the man himself that made this decision at the Melbourne ColdFusion User Group tonight. And he has valid reasons for moving on, the main one being that they already have a lot of .NET developers and have had trouble recruiting CF developers so made the decision to just have a single technology. I think this isn't such a bad decision, in that business. Regards Dale Fraser http://dale.fraser.id.au http://cfmldocs.com http://learncf.com http://flexcf.com -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Barry Beattie Sent: Thursday, 27 May 2010 9:52 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet TAFEs have a different problem. Teaching specific technologies is part of their brief. There is some limited curriculum material available (based on the commercial courses) for vocational colleges to teach using the Adobe products, but what TAFEs need are teachers with the skills to teach these languages. me me me. That's how I was brought, kicking and screaming, to CF - I had to teach it. I've been looking, Robin, but no TAFE's are looking for experienced and qualified CF teachers in my city. You hear of one? let me know, OK? Adobe can't magic these people into being - they have to come from the community. If you're a contractor or a full timer looking to moonlight as an evening instructor, have you considered approaching your local TAFE or community college and offering to run a web development course? Emma Jones (nee Steer, some of you may remember her as the Canberra Macromedia UG manager for several years) has been having some success with Flash and the local TAFEs around Wangaratta. Maybe someone with some pedagogical bent could start a wiki for lesson plans and extra course material and ideas for people who wanted to get into this. I would have thought that a barometer to do that would be the strength of short courses delivering this. Brisbane North TAFE (my employer until earlier this year) has sewn up the TAFE short course scene with their Adult Community Education courses (over a weekend or so). But to be honest, they get more go from lead-lighting and wine appreciation than computer languages. It's a Micky-Mouse operation and practically anyone can offer something to them. If they reckon their cut is worthwhile, they might listen. The only other way courses could be delivered out of the TAFE system is either accredited (you get a qualification - CertIII,Cert IV, Dip) and CF would be one platform to learn on or non-accredited specialist short courses. Both delivered out of faculty, not third-party (you have teachers with tenure to consider here). FYI Brisbane Nth (Ithaca campus) has IMHO the best reputation for IT for all the Brisbane TAFE's. I've designed courses while at QANTM up to Diploma level (it's not hard if you know what you're doing) that incorporated CF. There is a real need to do pre-testing before admittance - an aptitude test. At QANTM any Diploma course, the hard break-even (class size/enrollments) was 12. 15 was a soft break-even that got you some cred to get resources. Class sizes of 20 or more guaranteed it would run next year. Two or more classes of 20 means they would look at a mid-year intake as well. I was never able to get those numbers so the course couldn't fly (and that was with 3 languages - CF, PHP and ASP.NET/C# - on two platforms - Linux and Win - with a decent section on Flash/Flex apps and a bit on video streaming). Half a dozen people sitting in a 3 day short-course delivered by a private training provider is as much as you can expect, methinks. You certainly couldn't do that every week for the instructor to pay their mortgage... my opinion only. No cents offered here. I've none left. barry.b -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 6:08 AM, Andrew Myers am2...@gmail.com wrote: Not saying it applies in this case, I think there is a belief that if developers for a particular technology are scarce they cost more, if they're plentiful they cost less (in theory). .NET has appealed to some I've worked for because they can always tells us they are one day going to send all our work offshore. I can confirm that at least here in the US (certainly on the West Coast but almost certainly elsewhere too), CFers earn a lot more than PHPers. Dealing with various web agencies - and sometimes with clients directly - I've heard that over and over again. The problem is that to folks who are not well informed about PHP vs CFML, they view them both as web scripting languages and thus the $$ difference is significant. CFML's biggest problem is that it doesn't really sell itself - folks have to be educated as to why it's better than PHP (or ASP.NET) in terms of productivity. And, to be honest, that's something that falls squarely on the shoulders of the community - because we're the ones out in the trenches. What we need to be careful about is a closed mind - CFML is best! - without good arguments to back that up. As for cross-training developers, I'll definitely speak in favor of that since that's how I came to CFML, from a background of Java / C++, along with me team (back at Macromedia). Definitely easy to pick up CFML when you know other languages and these days, with the extended cfscript support, it's a relatively easy transition. FWIW, Railo sees a steady stream of new-to-CFML folks downloading the server. A good percentage come to us from jboss.org - Java developers looking for a more effective scripting language language for the JVM (and CFML definitely kicks JSP / JSF ass) - and we see quite a few .NET developers as well. We don't have more detailed info because that's based on the voluntary survey form on the download page. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/ An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Hi Sean, I agree with what you say about us being the ones in the trenches. Like I said in an earlier post, I sometimes have to try and justify even within my organisation the use of CF, and it's not always easy - I would really benefit from some kind of support resources to help me with this. Perhaps they are out there and I just haven't found them. A lot of the anti CF people also don't like it because it's a proprietary technology. This is where I really think things like Railo can really help the uptake of CF. Sometimes it seems to me there is the Microsoft camp and the open source camp. And CF is off to the side somewhere struggling for relevance. Sorry to be negative, but I'm having one of those days... On Fri, 28 May 2010 07:22:26 +1000, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 6:08 AM, Andrew Myers am2...@gmail.com wrote: Not saying it applies in this case, I think there is a belief that if developers for a particular technology are scarce they cost more, if they're plentiful they cost less (in theory). .NET has appealed to some I've worked for because they can always tells us they are one day going to send all our work offshore. I can confirm that at least here in the US (certainly on the West Coast but almost certainly elsewhere too), CFers earn a lot more than PHPers. Dealing with various web agencies - and sometimes with clients directly - I've heard that over and over again. The problem is that to folks who are not well informed about PHP vs CFML, they view them both as web scripting languages and thus the $$ difference is significant. CFML's biggest problem is that it doesn't really sell itself - folks have to be educated as to why it's better than PHP (or ASP.NET) in terms of productivity. And, to be honest, that's something that falls squarely on the shoulders of the community - because we're the ones out in the trenches. What we need to be careful about is a closed mind - CFML is best! - without good arguments to back that up. As for cross-training developers, I'll definitely speak in favor of that since that's how I came to CFML, from a background of Java / C++, along with me team (back at Macromedia). Definitely easy to pick up CFML when you know other languages and these days, with the extended cfscript support, it's a relatively easy transition. FWIW, Railo sees a steady stream of new-to-CFML folks downloading the server. A good percentage come to us from jboss.org - Java developers looking for a more effective scripting language language for the JVM (and CFML definitely kicks JSP / JSF ass) - and we see quite a few .NET developers as well. We don't have more detailed info because that's based on the voluntary survey form on the download page. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
I guess the question I would ask then is what is Adobe doing to try and retain these customers? And not only retain them but get new customers? -Original Message- From: Adrock [mailto:adrocknapho...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, 28 May 2010 10:36 AM To: cfaussie Subject: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet Just dropping a line to say I read this thread in it's entirety and I sympathize. I wish I could offer a silver-bullet solution, but one does not exist. It's also unfortunate, but these problems are not unique to ANZ. I'll be sharing these sentiments with Alison (Marketing Manager) and point her to this thread, but alas, it's things we were already aware of. It's still early, but we are really hoping our new resellers/partners in ANZ step up and promote ColdFusion in the manner Firmware was. It's hard to put into perspective, but Adobe has well over 125+ products. The Adobe AU office is small and only focuses on the big ticket items (LiveCycle, Connect, CS, etc.). This is really conundrum. If we want Adobe AU (or just Adobe in general) to be more involved w/ CF, then we would have to dramatically raise the price. Of course, other the other hand a significant portion of the market thinks ColdFusion is too expensive as it is and screamed bloody murder when we released CB. This is all underlined by a failing world economy and we can't ignore it's effect on the ColdFusion community. For every customer who doesn't upgrade or migrates to another technology like PHP, .NET or Railo, it's money that leave our ecosystem. Which means less money for marketing, conferences, user groups, documentation... this is what hurts the most about a company like JB-HI leaving CF. It's a vicious circle for sure, but I do believe we can turn it around... I'm planning on coming to Melbourne for cf.obj(ANZ). By then, I should be allowed to share some details on our strategy for ColdFusion X (albeit under NDA). To share a comment Shantanu Narayen made about CF X, Go big, or go home. We certainly don't intend to go home. :-) -Adam ColdFusion Product Manager Long-time fan of ColdFusion in ANZ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Hi Adam, thanks for weighing in on this. You know I love you, but... :) We have to pay to be partners, as well as meet certain criteria. We don't then actually get anything from adobe, except some base level downloads of software - but the expectation we're getting is to spend our own money doing the marketing. As a partner I got no contact from anyone unless I initiated it, and that didn't lead to anything either. I believe the intent is there, but frankly the partner program isn't doing much for a lot of people... Toby On 28/05/2010, at 10:36 AM, Adrock wrote: Just dropping a line to say I read this thread in it's entirety and I sympathize. I wish I could offer a silver-bullet solution, but one does not exist. It's also unfortunate, but these problems are not unique to ANZ. I'll be sharing these sentiments with Alison (Marketing Manager) and point her to this thread, but alas, it's things we were already aware of. It's still early, but we are really hoping our new resellers/partners in ANZ step up and promote ColdFusion in the manner Firmware was. It's hard to put into perspective, but Adobe has well over 125+ products. The Adobe AU office is small and only focuses on the big ticket items (LiveCycle, Connect, CS, etc.). This is really conundrum. If we want Adobe AU (or just Adobe in general) to be more involved w/ CF, then we would have to dramatically raise the price. Of course, other the other hand a significant portion of the market thinks ColdFusion is too expensive as it is and screamed bloody murder when we released CB. This is all underlined by a failing world economy and we can't ignore it's effect on the ColdFusion community. For every customer who doesn't upgrade or migrates to another technology like PHP, .NET or Railo, it's money that leave our ecosystem. Which means less money for marketing, conferences, user groups, documentation... this is what hurts the most about a company like JB-HI leaving CF. It's a vicious circle for sure, but I do believe we can turn it around... I'm planning on coming to Melbourne for cf.obj(ANZ). By then, I should be allowed to share some details on our strategy for ColdFusion X (albeit under NDA). To share a comment Shantanu Narayen made about CF X, Go big, or go home. We certainly don't intend to go home. :-) -Adam ColdFusion Product Manager Long-time fan of ColdFusion in ANZ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Totally agree with you Toby. In my opinion it should be Adobe doing the leg work to maintain these clients and then work with local partners to assist in supporting these customers, giving them direct access to the partners for software updates and providing support for them, otherwise what is the point of being classed as a partner -Original Message- From: Toby Tremayne [mailto:t...@lyricist.com.au] Sent: Friday, 28 May 2010 3:30 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet Hi Adam, thanks for weighing in on this. You know I love you, but... :) We have to pay to be partners, as well as meet certain criteria. We don't then actually get anything from adobe, except some base level downloads of software - but the expectation we're getting is to spend our own money doing the marketing. As a partner I got no contact from anyone unless I initiated it, and that didn't lead to anything either. I believe the intent is there, but frankly the partner program isn't doing much for a lot of people... Toby On 28/05/2010, at 10:36 AM, Adrock wrote: Just dropping a line to say I read this thread in it's entirety and I sympathize. I wish I could offer a silver-bullet solution, but one does not exist. It's also unfortunate, but these problems are not unique to ANZ. I'll be sharing these sentiments with Alison (Marketing Manager) and point her to this thread, but alas, it's things we were already aware of. It's still early, but we are really hoping our new resellers/partners in ANZ step up and promote ColdFusion in the manner Firmware was. It's hard to put into perspective, but Adobe has well over 125+ products. The Adobe AU office is small and only focuses on the big ticket items (LiveCycle, Connect, CS, etc.). This is really conundrum. If we want Adobe AU (or just Adobe in general) to be more involved w/ CF, then we would have to dramatically raise the price. Of course, other the other hand a significant portion of the market thinks ColdFusion is too expensive as it is and screamed bloody murder when we released CB. This is all underlined by a failing world economy and we can't ignore it's effect on the ColdFusion community. For every customer who doesn't upgrade or migrates to another technology like PHP, .NET or Railo, it's money that leave our ecosystem. Which means less money for marketing, conferences, user groups, documentation... this is what hurts the most about a company like JB-HI leaving CF. It's a vicious circle for sure, but I do believe we can turn it around... I'm planning on coming to Melbourne for cf.obj(ANZ). By then, I should be allowed to share some details on our strategy for ColdFusion X (albeit under NDA). To share a comment Shantanu Narayen made about CF X, Go big, or go home. We certainly don't intend to go home. :-) -Adam ColdFusion Product Manager Long-time fan of ColdFusion in ANZ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
To really get the correct answer here, I think we need Scott Barnes to comment. Regards Dale Fraser http://dale.fraser.id.au http://cfmldocs.com http://learncf.com http://flexcf.com -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kym Kovan Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 3:45 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet On 26/05/2010 15:14, Mark Mandel wrote: What are other companies out there doing? I.e. have people had experience with MS knocking on their door? Or any other platform? Anyone know first hand? (I'm still waiting for the PHP evangelists to come knocking). I've missed all the fun as I was busy this morning, installing yet another SQL2008 server to handle yet more clients and a couple more VMs to put them on. Not showing off, just simple fact. We are a CF-only hosting company and yes, we are not cheap as hosting in Oz is not cheap, that's _all_ hosting not just CF hosting. Like Steve said it costs 2K a month to have a rack in a decent datacentre, we pay well into 5 figures a month for hosting costs but for that sort of money you get a degree of reliability that you don't get elsewhere. Its the old, old story, you get what you pay for. We don't have 400 sites on one web server or 200 databases on a DB server, that's what happens when you pay $5 a month for your hosting. And if the power wobbles, we keep going. I got two phone calls yesterday relevant to this conversation, one from a prospective client who was fed up with the poor service at their existing hosting company, its in Brisbane and owned by a Victorian company if you know the one I mean. They are coming to us at twice the price they were paying before to get something that actually works (and I'm talking $55pm for a CMS site not thousands for a big business site). The other phone call was from Microsoft! They did come knocking at our door, metaphorically speaking! Wanted to know if we were happy, etc. We are a CF shop but we are also a Windows shop, we own quite a few Win2008 Datacentre licenses and SQL2008 ditto, we do spend serious (by small business standards) money with them even if we compete with their web technology. And talking of evangelising we have decided to put our CMS into the public domain and really start promoting cfml as a language and note the use of cfml there not Coldfusion. I think that is important now, it is in the public domain at the application platform level, it is not just Adobe any more and we need to start making noises. Here in Sydney the last Coldfusion User Group meeting was a long time ago, we now have an Adobe Platform User Group and Chris does a grand job but apart from me jumping up and down and mentioning cfml at every opportunity in the audience there has been no CF content in ages, its all Flex and Flash, etc. The Adobe Way. I have been thinking seriously about having a cfml user group, not directly connected to Adobe to see if we can attract a new crew of developers. Is that a viable idea? -- Yours, Kym Kovan mbcomms.net.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
So your saying if I move to .NET I'll get more free lunches. Now I finally understand why JB HI FI moved. Regards Dale Fraser http://dale.fraser.id.au http://cfmldocs.com http://cfmldocs.com/ http://learncf.com http://flexcf.com From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kai Koenig Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 3:38 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet MSFT is doing a lot for .NET and Silverlight in NZ - pre-sales events from vendors, technical seminars for 2 hrs where folks on the CIO/CTO level are invited and attend etc, they invite you to free training events local and even oversees - and that's how you get a company to jump on a technology - decision makers are just humans after all. I'm not saying Adobe is NOT doing anything, they just don't do it for CF but rather for LC and Creative Suite and that _is_ a local office's decision imho. One example is a series of breakfast talks in hotels on the LC technology stack in AU/NZ - really cool event (I was at the Wellington one back then) and it brought the right folks to the event - exactly those managers mentioned above - speakers were Adobe people and other folks who've deployed and built solutions on LC (in AU). I agree with a lot of what Mark and Robin are saying, it's _also_ up to a community, but it's clear to me that Adobe is not putting the effort in they could and do for other technologies in the local markets when it comes to CF. That's really all I'm saying - and I doubt there's anything we can do about it. Cheers Kai What are other companies out there doing? I.e. have people had experience with MS knocking on their door? Or any other platform? Anyone know first hand? (I'm still waiting for the PHP evangelists to come knocking). Mark On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 3:02 PM, KC Kuok kck...@gmail.com wrote: @Eliseo Mike Yeah I track jobs about once a week to see how the market is travelling, TBH in australia it does not seem that it is improving or disappearing, its just stagnant atm, it is definitely not experiencing this explosive growth of CF jobs/dev chart that gets thrown about the past 2 years... In anycase i reckon most are indie Flex devs using CF as a backend, probably in the EU and USA where Railo and Adobe have major exposure. @ Mark Others RE:Quesntion of how Adobe could do more to push CF I think CF needs more effort in Australia. Could start with pushing the entire platform (LifeCycle/CF and Flex front end), with the pros and cons. Maybe subsidise larger CF Houses like Daemon and Rocketboots to do like mini presentations to MANAGEMENT level people on CF. how they can do a project they wanted, but didnt have the resources (as in development time) and how LC/CF with Flex can overcome that. E.g. everyone knows Andrew Spaulding is part of Adobe Consultancy ANZ for Flex, but how many on the list know (if they exist) the people for CF and LifeCycle? Also another Idea i had is to have startups get a discount or rebate if they put a logo on their about page, like some cool CF badge that says Powered by Adobe Coldfusion, Railo could also do the same powered by Railo Coldfusion Railo could also do its part by setting up shop (or a presence) in Australia maybe as a 2 or 3 year project, to see how it goes. I reckon Red Hat has done well pushing its agenda in this part of the world. Conferences and UGs are all good for the CF community but it doesn't really make anyone pick up CF if they are not using CF already... BTW does anyone know is there any CF consultancy office (i.e. Rocketboots, Daemon) based out of melb? I have heard of a few hybrid one, was just thinking that day about any big CF consultancy houses in melbourne and couldnt really put my finger on it. PS:I know a few that offer a range including CF, just not focused on CF like the forementioned 2 companies. In the end it comes down to this, if Adobe does not push CF hard in ANZAC region, people who actually signs the cheques will assume that CF is dying because the company that owns it can't be bothered to sell it. Chong On May 26, 1:44 pm, Eliseo Dannunzio eliseo.dannun...@gmail.com wrote: Mike, I don't know where you've been looking but there have been jobs a plenty here in Sydney as based from the number of Seek ads I've seen come through... Granted they are not pure CF roles, but they are roles nonetheless. Eliseo On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:11 PM, Mike Kear afpwebwo...@gmail.com wrote: It's a paradox - the recruiters say coldfusion developers are really hard to find, yet there have been only handful of coldfusion contracts/permanent jobs advertised in the last year or so in Sydney. If we are in such demand, how come they arent looking for us by advertising? In Sydney in the last 3 months there have been 3 coldfusion jobs advertised and unless I'm looking in the wrong places, that's it. I dont know the answer. But I'm
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
And free trips maybe :) So your saying if I move to .NET I’ll get more free lunches. Now I finally understand why JB HI FI moved. Regards Dale Fraser http://dale.fraser.id.au http://cfmldocs.com http://learncf.com http://flexcf.com From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kai Koenig Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 3:38 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet MSFT is doing a lot for .NET and Silverlight in NZ - pre-sales events from vendors, technical seminars for 2 hrs where folks on the CIO/CTO level are invited and attend etc, they invite you to free training events local and even oversees - and that's how you get a company to jump on a technology - decision makers are just humans after all. I'm not saying Adobe is NOT doing anything, they just don't do it for CF but rather for LC and Creative Suite and that _is_ a local office's decision imho. One example is a series of breakfast talks in hotels on the LC technology stack in AU/NZ - really cool event (I was at the Wellington one back then) and it brought the right folks to the event - exactly those managers mentioned above - speakers were Adobe people and other folks who've deployed and built solutions on LC (in AU). I agree with a lot of what Mark and Robin are saying, it's _also_ up to a community, but it's clear to me that Adobe is not putting the effort in they could and do for other technologies in the local markets when it comes to CF. That's really all I'm saying - and I doubt there's anything we can do about it. Cheers Kai What are other companies out there doing? I.e. have people had experience with MS knocking on their door? Or any other platform? Anyone know first hand? (I'm still waiting for the PHP evangelists to come knocking). Mark On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 3:02 PM, KC Kuok kck...@gmail.com wrote: @Eliseo Mike Yeah I track jobs about once a week to see how the market is travelling, TBH in australia it does not seem that it is improving or disappearing, its just stagnant atm, it is definitely not experiencing this explosive growth of CF jobs/dev chart that gets thrown about the past 2 years... In anycase i reckon most are indie Flex devs using CF as a backend, probably in the EU and USA where Railo and Adobe have major exposure. @ Mark Others RE:Quesntion of how Adobe could do more to push CF I think CF needs more effort in Australia. Could start with pushing the entire platform (LifeCycle/CF and Flex front end), with the pros and cons. Maybe subsidise larger CF Houses like Daemon and Rocketboots to do like mini presentations to MANAGEMENT level people on CF. how they can do a project they wanted, but didnt have the resources (as in development time) and how LC/CF with Flex can overcome that. E.g. everyone knows Andrew Spaulding is part of Adobe Consultancy ANZ for Flex, but how many on the list know (if they exist) the people for CF and LifeCycle? Also another Idea i had is to have startups get a discount or rebate if they put a logo on their about page, like some cool CF badge that says Powered by Adobe Coldfusion, Railo could also do the same powered by Railo Coldfusion Railo could also do its part by setting up shop (or a presence) in Australia maybe as a 2 or 3 year project, to see how it goes. I reckon Red Hat has done well pushing its agenda in this part of the world. Conferences and UGs are all good for the CF community but it doesn't really make anyone pick up CF if they are not using CF already... BTW does anyone know is there any CF consultancy office (i.e. Rocketboots, Daemon) based out of melb? I have heard of a few hybrid one, was just thinking that day about any big CF consultancy houses in melbourne and couldnt really put my finger on it. PS:I know a few that offer a range including CF, just not focused on CF like the forementioned 2 companies. In the end it comes down to this, if Adobe does not push CF hard in ANZAC region, people who actually signs the cheques will assume that CF is dying because the company that owns it can't be bothered to sell it. Chong On May 26, 1:44 pm, Eliseo Dannunzio eliseo.dannun...@gmail.com wrote: Mike, I don't know where you've been looking but there have been jobs a plenty here in Sydney as based from the number of Seek ads I've seen come through... Granted they are not pure CF roles, but they are roles nonetheless. Eliseo On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:11 PM, Mike Kear afpwebwo...@gmail.com wrote: It's a paradox - the recruiters say coldfusion developers are really hard to find, yet there have been only handful of coldfusion contracts/permanent jobs advertised in the last year or so in Sydney. If we are in such demand, how come they arent looking for us by advertising? In Sydney in the last 3 months there have been 3
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
and, you'll be able to apply for the JB job and get free music as well. i went to CEbit yesterday. i noticed lots of the banners had the microsoft certified logo on them. one or two tux-the-penguins. only one adobe A, and none of the CF or FL product logos. there were hundreds of stands, hundreds of banners, some of them must have built their stuff in flash, but they just weren't being asked or forced to advertise the fact. asd On 26/05/10 16:19, Dale Fraser wrote: So your saying if I move to .NET I'll get more free lunches. Now I finally understand why JB HI FI moved. Regards Dale Fraser http://dale.fraser.id.au http://cfmldocs.com http://cfmldocs.com/ http://learncf.com http://flexcf.com *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Kai Koenig *Sent:* Wednesday, 26 May 2010 3:38 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet MSFT is doing a lot for .NET and Silverlight in NZ - pre-sales events from vendors, technical seminars for 2 hrs where folks on the CIO/CTO level are invited and attend etc, they invite you to free training events local and even oversees - and that's how you get a company to jump on a technology - decision makers are just humans after all. I'm not saying Adobe is NOT doing anything, they just don't do it for CF but rather for LC and Creative Suite and that _is_ a local office's decision imho. One example is a series of breakfast talks in hotels on the LC technology stack in AU/NZ - really cool event (I was at the Wellington one back then) and it brought the right folks to the event - exactly those managers mentioned above - speakers were Adobe people and other folks who've deployed and built solutions on LC (in AU). I agree with a lot of what Mark and Robin are saying, it's _also_ up to a community, but it's clear to me that Adobe is not putting the effort in they could and do for other technologies in the local markets when it comes to CF. That's really all I'm saying - and I doubt there's anything we can do about it. Cheers Kai What are other companies out there doing? I.e. have people had experience with MS knocking on their door? Or any other platform? Anyone know first hand? (I'm still waiting for the PHP evangelists to come knocking). Mark On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 3:02 PM, KC Kuok kck...@gmail.com mailto:kck...@gmail.com wrote: @Eliseo Mike Yeah I track jobs about once a week to see how the market is travelling, TBH in australia it does not seem that it is improving or disappearing, its just stagnant atm, it is definitely not experiencing this explosive growth of CF jobs/dev chart that gets thrown about the past 2 years... In anycase i reckon most are indie Flex devs using CF as a backend, probably in the EU and USA where Railo and Adobe have major exposure. @ Mark Others RE:Quesntion of how Adobe could do more to push CF I think CF needs more effort in Australia. Could start with pushing the entire platform (LifeCycle/CF and Flex front end), with the pros and cons. Maybe subsidise larger CF Houses like Daemon and Rocketboots to do like mini presentations to MANAGEMENT level people on CF. how they can do a project they wanted, but didnt have the resources (as in development time) and how LC/CF with Flex can overcome that. E.g. everyone knows Andrew Spaulding is part of Adobe Consultancy ANZ for Flex, but how many on the list know (if they exist) the people for CF and LifeCycle? Also another Idea i had is to have startups get a discount or rebate if they put a logo on their about page, like some cool CF badge that says Powered by Adobe Coldfusion, Railo could also do the same powered by Railo Coldfusion Railo could also do its part by setting up shop (or a presence) in Australia maybe as a 2 or 3 year project, to see how it goes. I reckon Red Hat has done well pushing its agenda in this part of the world. Conferences and UGs are all good for the CF community but it doesn't really make anyone pick up CF if they are not using CF already... BTW does anyone know is there any CF consultancy office (i.e. Rocketboots, Daemon) based out of melb? I have heard of a few hybrid one, was just thinking that day about any big CF consultancy houses in melbourne and couldnt really put my finger on it. PS:I know a few that offer a range including CF, just not focused on CF like the forementioned 2 companies. In the end it comes down to this, if Adobe does not push CF hard in ANZAC region, people who actually signs the cheques will assume that CF is dying because the company that owns it can't be bothered to sell it. Chong On May 26, 1:44 pm, Eliseo Dannunzio eliseo.dannun
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On 26/05/2010, at 3:42 PM, Andrew Scott wrote: 1995/1996 Was not the height of the .COM bubble, in fact the .Com was not a twinkle in anyone's eyes. It was 1995 when firmware contacted our company, took us along to a confernce/luncheon and gave us a pack full of ColdFusion stuff. And next thing we began coding ColdFusion from that point onwards. So as Jeremy only wrote the first version in July, they were pretty quick off the mark - or are your dates out a bit? In 1996 at Andersen Consulting we had John Desborough (author of using ColdFusion 2.0) flown out to our office from the US for two days of training. We didn't use ColdFusion from that point onwards. It's a risky way to promote a product. Everything Firmware did, you could do now. Go get a reseller account with Express Data or Scholastic (or make a commission arrangement with Webqem or Daemon) and invite some people to lunch. Print out some CF brochures. Give a little talk. Hey it worked for Firmware until they went bust. Robin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Where was CEBit? Regards Dale Fraser http://dale.fraser.id.au http://cfmldocs.com http://cfmldocs.com/ http://learncf.com http://flexcf.com From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of nomadic fish Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 4:50 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet and, you'll be able to apply for the JB job and get free music as well. i went to CEbit yesterday. i noticed lots of the banners had the microsoft certified logo on them. one or two tux-the-penguins. only one adobe A, and none of the CF or FL product logos. there were hundreds of stands, hundreds of banners, some of them must have built their stuff in flash, but they just weren't being asked or forced to advertise the fact. asd On 26/05/10 16:19, Dale Fraser wrote: So your saying if I move to .NET I'll get more free lunches. Now I finally understand why JB HI FI moved. Regards Dale Fraser http://dale.fraser.id.au http://cfmldocs.com http://cfmldocs.com/ http://learncf.com http://flexcf.com From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kai Koenig Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 3:38 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet MSFT is doing a lot for .NET and Silverlight in NZ - pre-sales events from vendors, technical seminars for 2 hrs where folks on the CIO/CTO level are invited and attend etc, they invite you to free training events local and even oversees - and that's how you get a company to jump on a technology - decision makers are just humans after all. I'm not saying Adobe is NOT doing anything, they just don't do it for CF but rather for LC and Creative Suite and that _is_ a local office's decision imho. One example is a series of breakfast talks in hotels on the LC technology stack in AU/NZ - really cool event (I was at the Wellington one back then) and it brought the right folks to the event - exactly those managers mentioned above - speakers were Adobe people and other folks who've deployed and built solutions on LC (in AU). I agree with a lot of what Mark and Robin are saying, it's _also_ up to a community, but it's clear to me that Adobe is not putting the effort in they could and do for other technologies in the local markets when it comes to CF. That's really all I'm saying - and I doubt there's anything we can do about it. Cheers Kai What are other companies out there doing? I.e. have people had experience with MS knocking on their door? Or any other platform? Anyone know first hand? (I'm still waiting for the PHP evangelists to come knocking). Mark On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 3:02 PM, KC Kuok kck...@gmail.com wrote: @Eliseo Mike Yeah I track jobs about once a week to see how the market is travelling, TBH in australia it does not seem that it is improving or disappearing, its just stagnant atm, it is definitely not experiencing this explosive growth of CF jobs/dev chart that gets thrown about the past 2 years... In anycase i reckon most are indie Flex devs using CF as a backend, probably in the EU and USA where Railo and Adobe have major exposure. @ Mark Others RE:Quesntion of how Adobe could do more to push CF I think CF needs more effort in Australia. Could start with pushing the entire platform (LifeCycle/CF and Flex front end), with the pros and cons. Maybe subsidise larger CF Houses like Daemon and Rocketboots to do like mini presentations to MANAGEMENT level people on CF. how they can do a project they wanted, but didnt have the resources (as in development time) and how LC/CF with Flex can overcome that. E.g. everyone knows Andrew Spaulding is part of Adobe Consultancy ANZ for Flex, but how many on the list know (if they exist) the people for CF and LifeCycle? Also another Idea i had is to have startups get a discount or rebate if they put a logo on their about page, like some cool CF badge that says Powered by Adobe Coldfusion, Railo could also do the same powered by Railo Coldfusion Railo could also do its part by setting up shop (or a presence) in Australia maybe as a 2 or 3 year project, to see how it goes. I reckon Red Hat has done well pushing its agenda in this part of the world. Conferences and UGs are all good for the CF community but it doesn't really make anyone pick up CF if they are not using CF already... BTW does anyone know is there any CF consultancy office (i.e. Rocketboots, Daemon) based out of melb? I have heard of a few hybrid one, was just thinking that day about any big CF consultancy houses in melbourne and couldnt really put my finger on it. PS:I know a few that offer a range including CF, just not focused on CF like the forementioned 2 companies. In the end it comes down to this, if Adobe does not push CF hard in ANZAC region, people who actually signs the cheques will assume that CF is dying because the company that owns it can't be bothered to sell
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 16:58, Dale Fraser d...@fraser.id.au wrote: Where was CEBit? Sydney. Chris -- Chris Velevitch Manager - Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney m: 0415 469 095 www.apugs.org.au Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney May 2010: OpenZoom and DVCSes Date: 31st May 6pm for 6:30 start Details and RSVP on http://apugs.groups.adobe.com/index.cfm?event=post.displaypostid=22263 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Yeah it might have been 1996/1997, I know it was well before I worked at ANZ which was 1999/2000. On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Robin Hilliard ro...@rocketboots.com.auwrote: On 26/05/2010, at 3:42 PM, Andrew Scott wrote: So as Jeremy only wrote the first version in July, they were pretty quick off the mark - or are your dates out a bit? In 1996 at Andersen Consulting we had John Desborough (author of using ColdFusion 2.0) flown out to our office from the US for two days of training. We didn't use ColdFusion from that point onwards. It's a risky way to promote a product. Everything Firmware did, you could do now. Go get a reseller account with Express Data or Scholastic (or make a commission arrangement with Webqem or Daemon) and invite some people to lunch. Print out some CF brochures. Give a little talk. Hey it worked for Firmware until they went bust. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On 26/05/2010 17:04, Chris Velevitch wrote: On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 16:58, Dale Fraserd...@fraser.id.au wrote: Where was CEBit? Sydney. And I never got there even though I wanted to, too busy :-( The fact that we are busy tells me that CF is alive and well in Oz, or our segment of it at least but I also am aware that our segment is not everything. Fiona and I got a bit of a surprise at WebDU, very few people had heard of us, very few indeed. It made me realise that you can be going like a train and being very good at what you do but if you don't make a noise occasionally then you fade from people's awareness and a new generation comes along who have never heard of you. You can be the county's most senior cfml developers and hosting firm but it counts for nought if no-one has heard of you. That is why I am suddenly making a lot of noise rather than the once-a-month-or-so squeak that I usually make. We are even considering having our own website! Shock Horror! We've never done that properly before :-) So stand by for more noise, cfml is going to be heard again! -- Yours, Kym Kovan mbcomms.net.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
hey Kym, it sounds like you're having the same problem CF is. been around forever, in use all over the place, but invisible to everyone who isn't actually being paid to look at it. asd On 26/05/10 17:42, Kym Kovan wrote: On 26/05/2010 17:04, Chris Velevitch wrote: On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 16:58, Dale Fraserd...@fraser.id.au wrote: Where was CEBit? Sydney. And I never got there even though I wanted to, too busy :-( The fact that we are busy tells me that CF is alive and well in Oz, or our segment of it at least but I also am aware that our segment is not everything. Fiona and I got a bit of a surprise at WebDU, very few people had heard of us, very few indeed. It made me realise that you can be going like a train and being very good at what you do but if you don't make a noise occasionally then you fade from people's awareness and a new generation comes along who have never heard of you. You can be the county's most senior cfml developers and hosting firm but it counts for nought if no-one has heard of you. That is why I am suddenly making a lot of noise rather than the once-a-month-or-so squeak that I usually make. We are even considering having our own website! Shock Horror! We've never done that properly before :-) So stand by for more noise, cfml is going to be heard again! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On 26/05/2010 18:21, nomadic fish wrote: hey Kym, it sounds like you're having the same problem CF is. been around forever, in use all over the place, but invisible to everyone who isn't actually being paid to look at it. Yes well I certainly have been around for ever and we are certainly going to start to make noise to raise our visibility and cfml at the same time. -- Yours, Kym Kovan mbcomms.net.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
I've been UK based the last 4 years and in both of the companies I've worked for here we've had Forta in our office. first company he came to do a sale pitch by him self, and current company he came with the UK product manager (I've forgotten his name) to do a sales pitch and reassurance of the product to our new GM about the coldfusion thing. Also told us that if we ever get a client who isn't so sure about CF etc he would join in on a conference call and product manager would go and see them with our staff. Also we had Adobe here a second time about 6 months later just to have a meeting with management about cfbuilder. Also microsoft was banging on the door of both companies to come and show off there products. I was also at SOTR yesterday, it was a good conference but Adobe has a much bigger presence/budget at WebDU. Although in saying that SOTR is a little smaller and only CF based Do people have Adobe visit there work places back in oz? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Matt, If you don't mind me asking, how big is the organization you work for? Sent from my mobile device On 26 May 2010 19:17, M@ Bourke m.electronic.at.sym...@gmail.com wrote: I've been UK based the last 4 years and in both of the companies I've worked for here we've had Forta in our office. first company he came to do a sale pitch by him self, and current company he came with the UK product manager (I've forgotten his name) to do a sales pitch and reassurance of the product to our new GM about the coldfusion thing. Also told us that if we ever get a client who isn't so sure about CF etc he would join in on a conference call and product manager would go and see them with our staff. Also we had Adobe here a second time about 6 months later just to have a meeting with management about cfbuilder. Also microsoft was banging on the door of both companies to come and show off there products. I was also at SOTR yesterday, it was a good conference but Adobe has a much bigger presence/budget at WebDU. Although in saying that SOTR is a little smaller and only CF based Do people have Adobe visit there work places back in oz? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
One had 200 staff and about 20 cf devs and present has around 300 staff and 7cf devs and 6 or so contract cf devs. Current product is intranet application used by governments but we are a private company, in other company we looked after household name e-commerce systems, so it would be understandable they'd want household names using there products, but thats only good for them if they're going to use that for marketing etc (which I don't remember them doing). Someone (non adobe employee) did tell me at SOTR that Adobe has a company policy that any staff talking at conferences about any adobe product regardless of what it is must first talk about the flash platform at the start of there speech. If this is the case they do have a marketing strategy for some products On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 10:24 AM, Mark Mandel mark.man...@gmail.com wrote: Matt, If you don't mind me asking, how big is the organization you work for? Sent from my mobile device On 26 May 2010 19:17, M@ Bourke m.electronic.at.sym...@gmail.com wrote: I've been UK based the last 4 years and in both of the companies I've worked for here we've had Forta in our office. first company he came to do a sale pitch by him self, and current company he came with the UK product manager (I've forgotten his name) to do a sales pitch and reassurance of the product to our new GM about the coldfusion thing. Also told us that if we ever get a client who isn't so sure about CF etc he would join in on a conference call and product manager would go and see them with our staff. Also we had Adobe here a second time about 6 months later just to have a meeting with management about cfbuilder. Also microsoft was banging on the door of both companies to come and show off there products. I was also at SOTR yesterday, it was a good conference but Adobe has a much bigger presence/budget at WebDU. Although in saying that SOTR is a little smaller and only CF based Do people have Adobe visit there work places back in oz? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
I think that the Adobe CF support for people who already know the product is great. Where things lack is the cold calling of companies to talk about the benefits of CF. This is something that I believe should be driven Adobe the same as MS do for their products. On 26 May 2010 19:57, M@ Bourke m.electronic.at.sym...@gmail.com wrote: One had 200 staff and about 20 cf devs and present has around 300 staff and 7cf devs and 6 or so contract cf devs. Current product is intranet application used by governments but we are a private company, in other company we looked after household name e-commerce systems, so it would be understandable they'd want household names using there products, but thats only good for them if they're going to use that for marketing etc (which I don't remember them doing). Someone (non adobe employee) did tell me at SOTR that Adobe has a company policy that any staff talking at conferences about any adobe product regardless of what it is must first talk about the flash platform at the start of there speech. If this is the case they do have a marketing strategy for some products On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 10:24 AM, Mark Mandel mark.man...@gmail.comwrote: Matt, If you don't mind me asking, how big is the organization you work for? Sent from my mobile device On 26 May 2010 19:17, M@ Bourke m.electronic.at.sym...@gmail.com wrote: I've been UK based the last 4 years and in both of the companies I've worked for here we've had Forta in our office. first company he came to do a sale pitch by him self, and current company he came with the UK product manager (I've forgotten his name) to do a sales pitch and reassurance of the product to our new GM about the coldfusion thing. Also told us that if we ever get a client who isn't so sure about CF etc he would join in on a conference call and product manager would go and see them with our staff. Also we had Adobe here a second time about 6 months later just to have a meeting with management about cfbuilder. Also microsoft was banging on the door of both companies to come and show off there products. I was also at SOTR yesterday, it was a good conference but Adobe has a much bigger presence/budget at WebDU. Although in saying that SOTR is a little smaller and only CF based Do people have Adobe visit there work places back in oz? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- Cheers Simon Haddon Woman loves feeling danger and speed. That is why woman wants man. They get a speed rush that is the most dangerous of all. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: SPAM-LOW: RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
I totally agree, and I think that adding CF licenses on top of all those costs as well as the need to support another product probably does not encourage hosting companies to offer ColdFusion as an option. Perhaps Adobe already do deals for hosting companies but if they don't, that is maybe one small way to encourage growth. Glad you replied because I often have people ask me about ColdFusion hosting in Australia and I struggle to recommend one because my experience with the ones I've had to deal with, including the one that was alluded to earlier (that charges about 4 times as much as everyone else) has not been good. From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Onnis Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 1:47 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: SPAM-LOW: RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet I agree with the Hosting point you made though there are a number of hosting companies that do CF hosting that know what they are doing such as myself (NovaHost), and FastHit to name a couple. The issue of being competitive is not an issue of CF, but more an issue of the high cost of setting up and running IT infrastructure in Australia, the main one being the cost of bandwidth within datacentres. To give you an idea, I am in the middle of moving datacentres and the cost per month is a little over 2k for a full rack and some data and thats with no hardware, then the cost of hardware and maintenance of that...its not a cheap exercise. Then adding the cost of software and updates, it gets quite hight _ From: Cassie Woolley [mailto:cas...@bluerocksoftware.com] Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 1:39 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet Part of the issue for me has always been hosting. Don't get me wrong, I know there ARE hosts in Australia but I have found it difficult to find competitive and reliable ColdFusion hosting with comparable service levels, including staff that know ColdFusion really well and can support it adequately. Perhaps part of the push needs to be incentives to Australian hosting companies to offer it as well as better training for their staff in how to set it up and support it. Years ago when I worked for WebRaven we pushed to get ColdFusion into the curriculum of one of the universities. I don't know if they have stuck with it. If they are not already, then Adobe needs to find ways to get the next generation trained up in ColdFusion and in Universities and even High Schools is the best place to start with that. From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Mandel Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 1:25 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.au wrote: but until Adobe come in and push like firmware used to do and promote the product it will not be a serious contender here in Australia. Again, I'll ask the question - HOW? I honestly have no idea how firmware used to push it, I started CF just around the end of firmware, so I missed out on it. To be completely frank, I think IMHO Adobe is listening (they may be slow to move, but they are listening) to what is happening in ANZ, but we're not really giving them a clear message on what exactly we want done other than 'this sucks'. We're being a bit of the quintessential client that is saying 'I don't like it, but keep changing it and I'll tell you when I do', which we all know and love. I mean, we all complained about how hard/painful/etc it was the actually just buy ColdFusion in ANZ, now there are dedicated resellers in the region to help solve that problem. Case in point, we presented a real problem, and a solution was provided. So what could Adobe be doing better? If this question can be answered well, I can put my ACP hat on with something I can actually take to Adobe, and maybe a solution can be reached... or at least, a discussion can be started. Mark -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Lol, I think what contributes to your situation is that a lot of ColdFusion hosting happens in-house or on people's own server. That's obviously the chicken/egg problem as people go for their own box because they don't know there is hosting in the first place. Maybe it'd be a good idea to push the idea (and options) of CF hosting to user groups, i.e. start a site or a simple public google doc or something listing all the hosters in ANZ that offer CF and compare plans etc. Cheers Kai On 26/05/2010, at 7:42 PM, Kym Kovan wrote: On 26/05/2010 17:04, Chris Velevitch wrote: On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 16:58, Dale Fraserd...@fraser.id.au wrote: Where was CEBit? Sydney. And I never got there even though I wanted to, too busy :-( The fact that we are busy tells me that CF is alive and well in Oz, or our segment of it at least but I also am aware that our segment is not everything. Fiona and I got a bit of a surprise at WebDU, very few people had heard of us, very few indeed. It made me realise that you can be going like a train and being very good at what you do but if you don't make a noise occasionally then you fade from people's awareness and a new generation comes along who have never heard of you. You can be the county's most senior cfml developers and hosting firm but it counts for nought if no-one has heard of you. That is why I am suddenly making a lot of noise rather than the once-a-month-or-so squeak that I usually make. We are even considering having our own website! Shock Horror! We've never done that properly before :-) So stand by for more noise, cfml is going to be heard again! -- Yours, Kym Kovan mbcomms.net.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- Kai Koenig - Ventego Creative Ltd ph: +64 4 476 6781 - mob: +64 21 928 365 / +61 450 132 117 web: http://www.ventego-creative.co.nz blog: http://www.bloginblack.de twitter: http://www.twitter.com/agentK Hands-on Regular Expression training @ webDU 2010 http://bloginblack.de/agentk/workshop-befriending-regular-expressions/ Hands-on Flash Catalyst and Flex 4 training @ Webinale 2010 http://bloginblack.de/agentk/workshop-rias-with-flash-catalyst-and-flex-4/ -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
There is already something on the Adobe site (http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/hosting/). God know how you get listed there -Original Message- From: Kai Koenig [mailto:k...@koeni.de] Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 9:17 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet Lol, I think what contributes to your situation is that a lot of ColdFusion hosting happens in-house or on people's own server. That's obviously the chicken/egg problem as people go for their own box because they don't know there is hosting in the first place. Maybe it'd be a good idea to push the idea (and options) of CF hosting to user groups, i.e. start a site or a simple public google doc or something listing all the hosters in ANZ that offer CF and compare plans etc. Cheers Kai On 26/05/2010, at 7:42 PM, Kym Kovan wrote: On 26/05/2010 17:04, Chris Velevitch wrote: On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 16:58, Dale Fraserd...@fraser.id.au wrote: Where was CEBit? Sydney. And I never got there even though I wanted to, too busy :-( The fact that we are busy tells me that CF is alive and well in Oz, or our segment of it at least but I also am aware that our segment is not everything. Fiona and I got a bit of a surprise at WebDU, very few people had heard of us, very few indeed. It made me realise that you can be going like a train and being very good at what you do but if you don't make a noise occasionally then you fade from people's awareness and a new generation comes along who have never heard of you. You can be the county's most senior cfml developers and hosting firm but it counts for nought if no-one has heard of you. That is why I am suddenly making a lot of noise rather than the once-a-month-or-so squeak that I usually make. We are even considering having our own website! Shock Horror! We've never done that properly before :-) So stand by for more noise, cfml is going to be heard again! -- Yours, Kym Kovan mbcomms.net.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- Kai Koenig - Ventego Creative Ltd ph: +64 4 476 6781 - mob: +64 21 928 365 / +61 450 132 117 web: http://www.ventego-creative.co.nz blog: http://www.bloginblack.de twitter: http://www.twitter.com/agentK Hands-on Regular Expression training @ webDU 2010 http://bloginblack.de/agentk/workshop-befriending-regular-expressions/ Hands-on Flash Catalyst and Flex 4 training @ Webinale 2010 http://bloginblack.de/agentk/workshop-rias-with-flash-catalyst-and-flex-4/ -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
I love developing resources, working with them to realise their full potential. Resources, Chad? Forgive me for saying but you mean people don't you? People who have passion? who have failings? who have ... family? In my mind, there's a distinct difference. It's people who can have a symbiotic relationship employer/employee - including the goodwill of providing training to look to the future. Resources are simply to be used. Sucked dry like a dog removing the marrow out of a bone. Thrown on the scrap heap when all is spent. I suppose it's the difference between cooperation ... and prostitution. and if I haven't made my point clear, employers would do well in building up goodwill and loyalty with their employees if they simply cared about them - including providing training and career pathways to encourage them to stay instead of moving on. ... unless they're simply resources to be slotted in and out when needed. my 2c. barry.b -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
With all your 2c's you must be pretty rich by now barry :) jokes! Would love to know what jb hifi execs would think about this discussion :) -Original Message- From: Barry Beattie [mailto:barry.beat...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, 27 May 2010 12:06 AM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet I love developing resources, working with them to realise their full potential. Resources, Chad? Forgive me for saying but you mean people don't you? People who have passion? who have failings? who have ... family? In my mind, there's a distinct difference. It's people who can have a symbiotic relationship employer/employee - including the goodwill of providing training to look to the future. Resources are simply to be used. Sucked dry like a dog removing the marrow out of a bone. Thrown on the scrap heap when all is spent. I suppose it's the difference between cooperation ... and prostitution. and if I haven't made my point clear, employers would do well in building up goodwill and loyalty with their employees if they simply cared about them - including providing training and career pathways to encourage them to stay instead of moving on. ... unless they're simply resources to be slotted in and out when needed. my 2c. barry.b -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
I hate to be the one to tell you, but there is no one in Adobe AU who really does CF - which is part of the problem imho. Cheers Kai Can anyone remind me of who the CF-related Adobe guys are in Australia? Does Andrew Spaulding do CF stuff, and are there any others? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 10:37 PM, Mark Mandel mark.man...@gmail.com wrote: I'm surprised Railo hasn't appointed a rep out here romancing universities in AU/NZ to get it rolling also. I was actually quite surprised Railo didn't push heavily into the ANZ region when they first started. Negotiations have been underway for quite a while. That being said, they were here for cf.O(ANZ) last year (and hopefully again this year) And webDU. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/ An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
I say something similar other times when this comes up, but I like seeing letters appear on the screen when I hit the keys, so will go again. I love developing resources, working with them to realise their full potential. Really freakishly love it. Trying to find those resources in a scarce labour market, not so much. That said, grad students know php, so we end up building our own more often than not. However, importing upper-end skills appears to be a lot easier when dealing with m$oft products. It would be the same scenerio both for a service provider and an internal development team. Chad who hopes people don't get the wrong impression when he combines freakishly love and resources On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Dawesi daw...@gmail.com wrote: Another jobs suggests: To apply, you will need to have strong, current software development skills (ASP.Net), hands on experience in legacy maintenance migration environments, enjoy an agile development cycle and possess a thorough understanding of, and plenty of experience with, .NET framework. ie: moving from CF to .Net - area they calling CF legacy? On May 24, 4:57 pm, Dawesi daw...@gmail.com wrote: Looks like JB-HI is moving to .nethttp:// www.seek.com.au/job/software-developer/melbourne-east/17358904... Another misinformed IT manager. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group athttp:// groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Oh boy, I think I have been saying that for like 8+ years now. Its the market, people are finding it hard to fill ColdFusion roles. So the only thing left is to move the product over to a more feasible language with a pool of developers that they can resource from. Until that changes for ColdFusion it will end up dying in this country, that's the reality of it. And this has been going on ever since ColdFusion was owned by Macromedia. On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.auwrote: I see it all the time. Lots of recruitment agencies see CF as a legacy or redundant development platform and I guess that is a result of demand and corporate retention of the platform. I really think Adobe needs to do something about it. They need to advertise and get out there promoting the platform otherwise it will end up the way of the dodo. They need to be out there so we start seeing Migrating from .NET to Coldfusion ads! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
I hate to ask this question... but... If it's been said for 8 years, but there are still CF jobs and developers in Australia, then that's a long time for all the jobs to dissapear. Although, I don't disagree, it is tough to find CF developers in Australia. On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.auwrote: Oh boy, I think I have been saying that for like 8+ years now. My interesting question is this - if you could control Adobe for a day - what would you change about what they do re: CF in the ANZ region? Maybe there are problems that have already been solved, or ideas we can fire off to Adobe people that are awesome and will be game changing. Mark -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
It's a paradox - the recruiters say coldfusion developers are really hard to find, yet there have been only handful of coldfusion contracts/permanent jobs advertised in the last year or so in Sydney. If we are in such demand, how come they arent looking for us by advertising? In Sydney in the last 3 months there have been 3 coldfusion jobs advertised and unless I'm looking in the wrong places, that's it. I dont know the answer. But I'm here and available - with up to date technical knowlege, experience, business and project management knowledge and lots of other stuff to bring to the table. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.auwrote: Oh boy, I think I have been saying that for like 8+ years now. Its the market, people are finding it hard to fill ColdFusion roles. So the only thing left is to move the product over to a more feasible language with a pool of developers that they can resource from. Until that changes for ColdFusion it will end up dying in this country, that's the reality of it. And this has been going on ever since ColdFusion was owned by Macromedia. On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.auwrote: I see it all the time. Lots of recruitment agencies see CF as a legacy or redundant development platform and I guess that is a result of demand and corporate retention of the platform. I really think Adobe needs to do something about it. They need to advertise and get out there promoting the platform otherwise it will end up the way of the dodo. They need to be out there so we start seeing Migrating from .NET to Coldfusion ads! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Isnt it a learning issue though? Why is Adobe not pushing to get CF included in university curiculums? If people are not exposed and taught it how can you find developers to use it? Which poses the question, how many people who learn say .Net at uni would come out of uni and switch languages when looking for work? _ From: Mark Mandel [mailto:mark.man...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 1:07 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet I hate to ask this question... but... If it's been said for 8 years, but there are still CF jobs and developers in Australia, then that's a long time for all the jobs to dissapear. Although, I don't disagree, it is tough to find CF developers in Australia. On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.au wrote: Oh boy, I think I have been saying that for like 8+ years now. My interesting question is this - if you could control Adobe for a day - what would you change about what they do re: CF in the ANZ region? Maybe there are problems that have already been solved, or ideas we can fire off to Adobe people that are awesome and will be game changing. Mark -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On the Java Posse podcast recently they were trying to think of big sites made in .NET and they all drew a blank. In a later episode stackoverflow.com was put forward as probably the best example they could give of a large site done in .NET. So it left me wondering just where .NET is really at? Are they missing some obvious ones, is .NET just not that popular, or is all the .NET stuff targeted at small / medium sites? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
So its a slow and painful death for Australia. Seriously, when you do a search for ColdFusion on seek there are a few jobs listed but not one of them is a pure ColdFusion job. Been like this for many years, question is how do we change it? We need Adobes help here as the user groups are doing all they can, but until Adobe come in and push like firmware used to do and promote the product it will not be a serious contender here in Australia. And frankly I don't think Adobe care. On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Mark Mandel mark.man...@gmail.com wrote: I hate to ask this question... but... If it's been said for 8 years, but there are still CF jobs and developers in Australia, then that's a long time for all the jobs to dissapear. Although, I don't disagree, it is tough to find CF developers in Australia. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
mySpace On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Andrew Myers am2...@gmail.com wrote: On the Java Posse podcast recently they were trying to think of big sites made in .NET and they all drew a blank. In a later episode stackoverflow.com was put forward as probably the best example they could give of a large site done in .NET. So it left me wondering just where .NET is really at? Are they missing some obvious ones, is .NET just not that popular, or is all the .NET stuff targeted at small / medium sites? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.auwrote: but until Adobe come in and push like firmware used to do and promote the product it will not be a serious contender here in Australia. Again, I'll ask the question - HOW? I honestly have no idea how firmware used to push it, I started CF just around the end of firmware, so I missed out on it. To be completely frank, I think IMHO Adobe is listening (they may be slow to move, but they are listening) to what is happening in ANZ, but we're not really giving them a clear message on what exactly we want done other than 'this sucks'. We're being a bit of the quintessential client that is saying 'I don't like it, but keep changing it and I'll tell you when I do', which we all know and love. I mean, we all complained about how hard/painful/etc it was the actually just buy ColdFusion in ANZ, now there are dedicated resellers in the region to help solve that problem. Case in point, we presented a real problem, and a solution was provided. So what could Adobe be doing better? If this question can be answered well, I can put my ACP hat on with something I can actually take to Adobe, and maybe a solution can be reached... or at least, a discussion can be started. Mark -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
How you ask Mark? Well it is a good question to ask, but Firmware was out in peoples faces giving business/companies packs. They held events for businesses to come along and see the product in action. You could invite friends along in the industry, they put on a small supper and gave away door prizes and all you had to do was to turn up and watch the demonstration/presentation on ColdFusion. All Adobe needs to do is have someone like Ben Forta come along into the government sector and he can do his magic, it seems that they are doing all this magic pushing of the product into companies and business in there own backyard but not the rest of the world. I guess if you ignore something long enough then it is bound to go the way of the dodo. On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:25 PM, Mark Mandel mark.man...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.auwrote: but until Adobe come in and push like firmware used to do and promote the product it will not be a serious contender here in Australia. Again, I'll ask the question - HOW? I honestly have no idea how firmware used to push it, I started CF just around the end of firmware, so I missed out on it. To be completely frank, I think IMHO Adobe is listening (they may be slow to move, but they are listening) to what is happening in ANZ, but we're not really giving them a clear message on what exactly we want done other than 'this sucks'. We're being a bit of the quintessential client that is saying 'I don't like it, but keep changing it and I'll tell you when I do', which we all know and love. I mean, we all complained about how hard/painful/etc it was the actually just buy ColdFusion in ANZ, now there are dedicated resellers in the region to help solve that problem. Case in point, we presented a real problem, and a solution was provided. So what could Adobe be doing better? If this question can be answered well, I can put my ACP hat on with something I can actually take to Adobe, and maybe a solution can be reached... or at least, a discussion can be started. Mark -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Why should we be telling them what we want done? This is a marketing and sales problem and to be quite frank M$ is kicking their bums. _ From: Mark Mandel [mailto:mark.man...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 1:25 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.au wrote: but until Adobe come in and push like firmware used to do and promote the product it will not be a serious contender here in Australia. Again, I'll ask the question - HOW? I honestly have no idea how firmware used to push it, I started CF just around the end of firmware, so I missed out on it. To be completely frank, I think IMHO Adobe is listening (they may be slow to move, but they are listening) to what is happening in ANZ, but we're not really giving them a clear message on what exactly we want done other than 'this sucks'. We're being a bit of the quintessential client that is saying 'I don't like it, but keep changing it and I'll tell you when I do', which we all know and love. I mean, we all complained about how hard/painful/etc it was the actually just buy ColdFusion in ANZ, now there are dedicated resellers in the region to help solve that problem. Case in point, we presented a real problem, and a solution was provided. So what could Adobe be doing better? If this question can be answered well, I can put my ACP hat on with something I can actually take to Adobe, and maybe a solution can be reached... or at least, a discussion can be started. Mark -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Part of the issue for me has always been hosting. Don't get me wrong, I know there ARE hosts in Australia but I have found it difficult to find competitive and reliable ColdFusion hosting with comparable service levels, including staff that know ColdFusion really well and can support it adequately. Perhaps part of the push needs to be incentives to Australian hosting companies to offer it as well as better training for their staff in how to set it up and support it. Years ago when I worked for WebRaven we pushed to get ColdFusion into the curriculum of one of the universities. I don't know if they have stuck with it. If they are not already, then Adobe needs to find ways to get the next generation trained up in ColdFusion and in Universities and even High Schools is the best place to start with that. From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Mandel Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 1:25 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.au wrote: but until Adobe come in and push like firmware used to do and promote the product it will not be a serious contender here in Australia. Again, I'll ask the question - HOW? I honestly have no idea how firmware used to push it, I started CF just around the end of firmware, so I missed out on it. To be completely frank, I think IMHO Adobe is listening (they may be slow to move, but they are listening) to what is happening in ANZ, but we're not really giving them a clear message on what exactly we want done other than 'this sucks'. We're being a bit of the quintessential client that is saying 'I don't like it, but keep changing it and I'll tell you when I do', which we all know and love. I mean, we all complained about how hard/painful/etc it was the actually just buy ColdFusion in ANZ, now there are dedicated resellers in the region to help solve that problem. Case in point, we presented a real problem, and a solution was provided. So what could Adobe be doing better? If this question can be answered well, I can put my ACP hat on with something I can actually take to Adobe, and maybe a solution can be reached... or at least, a discussion can be started. Mark -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
I'd like to know what (if anything) Adobe are currently doing to market ColdFusion in this region.Last time i asked this, people (including you, Mark) jumped down my throat and called me a whinger. But i did also notice that no one said anything along the lines of you're mistaken Mike, Adobe are doing this and that and this ... which is what i had hoped I would find out. I was disappointed. At one stage, Mark Blair was busy talking to prospects about coldfusion. Before Rocketboots, Robin Hilliard spent most of his time at one stage talking to people about why they should be using ColdFusion. There was a presence in the IT press - never enough, but a presence nevertheless. So I ask once more at the risk of being branded a whinger again - is Adobe doing ANYTHING at all to promote Coldfusion in this region? Before anyone could make sensible suggestions about what Adobe should do, we'd need to know what they're doing already. Otherwise its just a wish list. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/mont On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.auwrote: How you ask Mark? Well it is a good question to ask, but Firmware was out in peoples faces giving business/companies packs. They held events for businesses to come along and see the product in action. You could invite friends along in the industry, they put on a small supper and gave away door prizes and all you had to do was to turn up and watch the demonstration/presentation on ColdFusion. All Adobe needs to do is have someone like Ben Forta come along into the government sector and he can do his magic, it seems that they are doing all this magic pushing of the product into companies and business in there own backyard but not the rest of the world. I guess if you ignore something long enough then it is bound to go the way of the dodo. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
So, to be clear - you would like to see a designated person for representing CF in the ANZ region? Much like Adobe has evangelists in US and EU? (and I would love to see this as well) Even if their job was CF AND something else (I actually found out a little while back that Terry Ryan is actually both a CF and Flash evangelist), I think that would be a good idea. On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.auwrote: All Adobe needs to do is have someone like Ben Forta come along into the government sector and he can do his magic, it seems that they are doing all this magic pushing of the product into companies and business in there own backyard but not the rest of the world. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Mike, I don't know where you've been looking but there have been jobs a plenty here in Sydney as based from the number of Seek ads I've seen come through... Granted they are not pure CF roles, but they are roles nonetheless. Eliseo On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:11 PM, Mike Kear afpwebwo...@gmail.com wrote: It's a paradox - the recruiters say coldfusion developers are really hard to find, yet there have been only handful of coldfusion contracts/permanent jobs advertised in the last year or so in Sydney. If we are in such demand, how come they arent looking for us by advertising? In Sydney in the last 3 months there have been 3 coldfusion jobs advertised and unless I'm looking in the wrong places, that's it. I dont know the answer. But I'm here and available - with up to date technical knowlege, experience, business and project management knowledge and lots of other stuff to bring to the table. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.au wrote: Oh boy, I think I have been saying that for like 8+ years now. Its the market, people are finding it hard to fill ColdFusion roles. So the only thing left is to move the product over to a more feasible language with a pool of developers that they can resource from. Until that changes for ColdFusion it will end up dying in this country, that's the reality of it. And this has been going on ever since ColdFusion was owned by Macromedia. On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: I see it all the time. Lots of recruitment agencies see CF as a legacy or redundant development platform and I guess that is a result of demand and corporate retention of the platform. I really think Adobe needs to do something about it. They need to advertise and get out there promoting the platform otherwise it will end up the way of the dodo. They need to be out there so we start seeing Migrating from .NET to Coldfusion ads! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
If your aim is to solve an issue, one of the easiest ways to do that is to offer some suggestions to how to fix it, don't you think? On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: Why should we be telling them what we want done? This is a marketing and sales problem and to be quite frank M$ is kicking their bums. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
I agree with the Hosting point you made though there are a number of hosting companies that do CF hosting that know what they are doing such as myself (NovaHost), and FastHit to name a couple. The issue of being competitive is not an issue of CF, but more an issue of the high cost of setting up and running IT infrastructure in Australia, the main one being the cost of bandwidth within datacentres. To give you an idea, I am in the middle of moving datacentres and the cost per month is a little over 2k for a full rack and some data and thats with no hardware, then the cost of hardware and maintenance of that...its not a cheap exercise. Then adding the cost of software and updates, it gets quite hight _ From: Cassie Woolley [mailto:cas...@bluerocksoftware.com] Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 1:39 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet Part of the issue for me has always been hosting. Don't get me wrong, I know there ARE hosts in Australia but I have found it difficult to find competitive and reliable ColdFusion hosting with comparable service levels, including staff that know ColdFusion really well and can support it adequately. Perhaps part of the push needs to be incentives to Australian hosting companies to offer it as well as better training for their staff in how to set it up and support it. Years ago when I worked for WebRaven we pushed to get ColdFusion into the curriculum of one of the universities. I don't know if they have stuck with it. If they are not already, then Adobe needs to find ways to get the next generation trained up in ColdFusion and in Universities and even High Schools is the best place to start with that. From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Mandel Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 1:25 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.au wrote: but until Adobe come in and push like firmware used to do and promote the product it will not be a serious contender here in Australia. Again, I'll ask the question - HOW? I honestly have no idea how firmware used to push it, I started CF just around the end of firmware, so I missed out on it. To be completely frank, I think IMHO Adobe is listening (they may be slow to move, but they are listening) to what is happening in ANZ, but we're not really giving them a clear message on what exactly we want done other than 'this sucks'. We're being a bit of the quintessential client that is saying 'I don't like it, but keep changing it and I'll tell you when I do', which we all know and love. I mean, we all complained about how hard/painful/etc it was the actually just buy ColdFusion in ANZ, now there are dedicated resellers in the region to help solve that problem. Case in point, we presented a real problem, and a solution was provided. So what could Adobe be doing better? If this question can be answered well, I can put my ACP hat on with something I can actually take to Adobe, and maybe a solution can be reached... or at least, a discussion can be started. Mark -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Thats why Adobe have a marketing department with people who apparently know marketing? or do we need to be doing their jobs for them now also? _ From: Mark Mandel [mailto:mark.man...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 1:45 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet If your aim is to solve an issue, one of the easiest ways to do that is to offer some suggestions to how to fix it, don't you think? On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: Why should we be telling them what we want done? This is a marketing and sales problem and to be quite frank M$ is kicking their bums. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
So this is what I see Adobe doing locally: (and this is just my perspective) 1. Setting up designated CF resellers in the ANZ region. 2. Supporting and sponsoring multiple conferences in ANZ that provide CF content. 3. Sending CF evangelist and engineers to multiple events in ANZ (I think we'll probably gather about 4 ANZ trips this year for CF representatives coming from US/India, if I count correct). 4. I *believe* when evangelists are in town, they tend to go out and see various Customers in the ANZ region, but don't quote me on that. 5. This is more general, but there was also a good conference/discussion with John Koch (Adobe Community Manager) to try and help out User Groups nd really kick them into gear. By the way, I'm not saying that that is enough, I'm just trying to provide the counterpoint to really identify the pain points that are there, and then maybe try and come up with some reasonable and useful solutions to that problem. The interesting question here is as well - how much of this is coming from the local office, and how much is it coming for general Adobe. I couldn't really say to that, but maybe that is a valid point - there needs to be a better local CF presence for CF in ANZ. Mark On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Mike Kear afpwebwo...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to know what (if anything) Adobe are currently doing to market ColdFusion in this region.Last time i asked this, people (including you, Mark) jumped down my throat and called me a whinger. But i did also notice that no one said anything along the lines of you're mistaken Mike, Adobe are doing this and that and this ... which is what i had hoped I would find out. I was disappointed. At one stage, Mark Blair was busy talking to prospects about coldfusion. Before Rocketboots, Robin Hilliard spent most of his time at one stage talking to people about why they should be using ColdFusion. There was a presence in the IT press - never enough, but a presence nevertheless. So I ask once more at the risk of being branded a whinger again - is Adobe doing ANYTHING at all to promote Coldfusion in this region? Before anyone could make sensible suggestions about what Adobe should do, we'd need to know what they're doing already. Otherwise its just a wish list. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/mont On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.auwrote: How you ask Mark? Well it is a good question to ask, but Firmware was out in peoples faces giving business/companies packs. They held events for businesses to come along and see the product in action. You could invite friends along in the industry, they put on a small supper and gave away door prizes and all you had to do was to turn up and watch the demonstration/presentation on ColdFusion. All Adobe needs to do is have someone like Ben Forta come along into the government sector and he can do his magic, it seems that they are doing all this magic pushing of the product into companies and business in there own backyard but not the rest of the world. I guess if you ignore something long enough then it is bound to go the way of the dodo. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
But as far as I understand, we have those people who do come to our shores and promote CF to customers directly... or maybe you would like them to be more aggressive about visiting current/previous/potential customers when they are in town? Let's also not forget Adobe has a thimbel of the evangelists that MS has... it's hard to compete with that. On the flip side - Java, PHP, Ruby - they do just fine on community push alone. (actually, does Java have evangelists?) Mark On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:52 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.auwrote: I am not sure it should be just one person, have a look at those like Terry and Adam, Ben etc who fly to the UK to promote it. Forget about just the trade shows, Adobe really needs to book in with the bigger boys and say hey you might know about us, but did you know we are just as good if not better. Get in their faces, address any concerns these people had for changing in the first place and promote the product. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Whatever Adobe are doing to promote CF in Australia it is not as much as Firmware used to do. Firmware, a tiny company compared to Adobe, with comparatively minuscule resources ran CF seminars and demonstrations which attendees like me who knew nothing of CF were blown away by the ease of development. After my first seminar, they sold me my first copy of CF 4.0 on the way out and there were others in the queue eager to hand over their dosh and get into CF! So, yes, designated resellers with some incentive to sell CF to Corporates, Govt, Everyone! Cheers ian On 26/05/2010, at 1:48 PM, Steve Onnis wrote: Thats why Adobe have a marketing department with people who apparently know marketing? or do we need to be doing their jobs for them now also? From: Mark Mandel [mailto:mark.man...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 1:45 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet If your aim is to solve an issue, one of the easiest ways to do that is to offer some suggestions to how to fix it, don't you think? On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: Why should we be telling them what we want done? This is a marketing and sales problem and to be quite frank M$ is kicking their bums. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Mark, I'm with you, and personally I don't want to dwell on what Adobe have or haven't done in the past. I also think we need to understand that CF is not a lead product for Adobe, (no matter how much we love it), and that's just the way it is. So, if we as CF developers want the world to be better for us, then let's see what we can do. You opened the idea of an evangelist for the region, which might be a feasible goal. The idea of CF and 'something else' is also good, and might have more chance of getting backing. The obvious something else would be Flex, no? Talking to Flex people over the last few months, I get the impression that it's a market in growth and has reasonable demand. So, what about a 'leading with Flex' strategy, to get projects up and Adobe in the door, then taking every opportunity to offer CF for the server side? We CFers probably need to be considering the Adobe stack more and the ideal of working in isolation less. If an evangelist in the region pushed this barrow, would that help? So, Mark, are you saying you'd like to represent something along these (or other, yet to be agreed) lines to Adobe? What do you think we (CFers) need to do? What would be the role of CFUGs in engaging with Adobe to roll out a coherent strategy? Should CFUGs be working more closely with Flex UGs, or even amalgamating? Thanks for your calm thoughts Mark. Peter Robertson On 26 May 2010 13:42, Mark Mandel mark.man...@gmail.com wrote: So, to be clear - you would like to see a designated person for representing CF in the ANZ region? Much like Adobe has evangelists in US and EU? (and I would love to see this as well) Even if their job was CF AND something else (I actually found out a little while back that Terry Ryan is actually both a CF and Flash evangelist), I think that would be a good idea. On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.auwrote: All Adobe needs to do is have someone like Ben Forta come along into the government sector and he can do his magic, it seems that they are doing all this magic pushing of the product into companies and business in there own backyard but not the rest of the world. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
I like the idea of having a dedicated CF evangelist for ANZ. The purpose of this would be to 1. Talk to existing customers 2. Talk to companies big and small using other technologies 3. Demonstrate at conferences 4. Attend User Groups and CAMPS 5. Take CTO's of companies who use CF out to lunch 5. is optional J Mark, I think you would be good in this role, perhaps you should pitch to Adobe the idea if you're interested, and if not there are probably other people out there that would be good. I think selling into schools is harder as the students still need to deal with the fact it's not free in their personal projects. In the corporate world, its not hard to justify the cost with the time saving, I've done it multiple times. Regards Dale Fraser http://dale.fraser.id.au http://cfmldocs.com http://cfmldocs.com/ http://learncf.com http://flexcf.com From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ian Marshall Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 2:04 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet Whatever Adobe are doing to promote CF in Australia it is not as much as Firmware used to do. Firmware, a tiny company compared to Adobe, with comparatively minuscule resources ran CF seminars and demonstrations which attendees like me who knew nothing of CF were blown away by the ease of development. After my first seminar, they sold me my first copy of CF 4.0 on the way out and there were others in the queue eager to hand over their dosh and get into CF! So, yes, designated resellers with some incentive to sell CF to Corporates, Govt, Everyone! Cheers ian On 26/05/2010, at 1:48 PM, Steve Onnis wrote: Thats why Adobe have a marketing department with people who apparently know marketing? or do we need to be doing their jobs for them now also? _ From: Mark Mandel [mailto:mark.man...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 1:45 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet If your aim is to solve an issue, one of the easiest ways to do that is to offer some suggestions to how to fix it, don't you think? On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: Why should we be telling them what we want done? This is a marketing and sales problem and to be quite frank M$ is kicking their bums. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com http://www.compoundtheory.com/ cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au http://www.cfobjective.com.au/ Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com http://www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Is it a case that there are not enough Adobe Partners? Do they need better support? I'm not sure since I'm not part of the partner programme. Maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick but we seem to be talking about Adobe and developers. Ross On 26/05/2010, at 4:01 PM, Mark Mandel wrote: But as far as I understand, we have those people who do come to our shores and promote CF to customers directly... or maybe you would like them to be more aggressive about visiting current/previous/ potential customers when they are in town? Let's also not forget Adobe has a thimbel of the evangelists that MS has... it's hard to compete with that. On the flip side - Java, PHP, Ruby - they do just fine on community push alone. (actually, does Java have evangelists?) Mark On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:52 PM, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.au wrote: I am not sure it should be just one person, have a look at those like Terry and Adam, Ben etc who fly to the UK to promote it. Forget about just the trade shows, Adobe really needs to book in with the bigger boys and say hey you might know about us, but did you know we are just as good if not better. Get in their faces, address any concerns these people had for changing in the first place and promote the product. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
That is an interesting question, I have no idea how many Adobe Partners there are that do CF work in the ANZ community. Is the role of an Adobe partner to be fostering CF growth? The ones I've come into contact with, tend to get involved in the community very often (Daemon, Rocketboots, Gruden... etc) Mark On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 2:18 PM, Ross Phillips r...@fingersdancing.comwrote: Is it a case that there are not enough Adobe Partners? Do they need better support? I'm not sure since I'm not part of the partner programme. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
My 2c I ended up in a CF role after taking on a job to develop and maintain a website for a sport that I love. I came from a Java background and in some regards although I now have a dream job of sorts I feel like I've shot myself in the foot in terms of future employment prospects. In fact I actually keep hearing the re-platforming term thrown around and have had colleagues / managers question me on what CF can do that Java can't (without the licence cost). It's sometimes difficult for me to answer, especially when I haven't been around pure Java for a while. I don't disagree that as CF developers we should be doing more to sell it to our managers, however we need to believe in it and be in a position to refute the arguments. Maybe what we need to do is get that google wave document going as one list member suggested, and also another one with a Why CF? that we can refer to when these kinds of scenario's come up? Personally I was hoping that Open BlueDragon and Railo would breathe some new life into CF as people jump on the open source bandwagon. It hasn't seemed to make much difference from my point of view though. Speaking of hosting, I have hobby projects I'm writing in PHP because I don't have the dollars to host these in CF. With LAMP hosting for about US$2 a month it's a no brainer for these things. But I feel we lose out on developer interest (which I do think flows on to the business world) for this exact reason. Okay that's a bit of a ramble of disjointed thoughts, but this seems a good thread to speak of the state of the fusion -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Hah... thanks but no thanks. I really enjoy working for myself, and I think my wife would kill me if I travelled as much as most evangelists do. Mark On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Dale Fraser d...@fraser.id.au wrote: I like the idea of having a dedicated CF evangelist for ANZ. The purpose of this would be to 1. Talk to existing customers 2. Talk to companies big and small using other technologies 3. Demonstrate at conferences 4. Attend User Groups and CAMPS 5. Take CTO’s of companies who use CF out to lunch 5. is optional J Mark, I think you would be good in this role, perhaps you should pitch to Adobe the idea if you’re interested, and if not there are probably other people out there that would be good. I think selling into schools is harder as the students still need to deal with the fact it’s not free in their personal projects. In the corporate world, its not hard to justify the cost with the time saving, I’ve done it multiple times. Regards Dale Fraser http://dale.fraser.id.au http://cfmldocs.com http://learncf.com http://flexcf.com *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Ian Marshall *Sent:* Wednesday, 26 May 2010 2:04 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet Whatever Adobe are doing to promote CF in Australia it is not as much as Firmware used to do. Firmware, a tiny company compared to Adobe, with comparatively minuscule resources ran CF seminars and demonstrations which attendees like me who knew nothing of CF were blown away by the ease of development. After my first seminar, they sold me my first copy of CF 4.0 on the way out and there were others in the queue eager to hand over their dosh and get into CF! So, yes, designated resellers with some incentive to sell CF to Corporates, Govt, Everyone! Cheers ian On 26/05/2010, at 1:48 PM, Steve Onnis wrote: Thats why Adobe have a marketing department with people who apparently know marketing? or do we need to be doing their jobs for them now also? -- *From:* Mark Mandel [mailto:mark.man...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, 26 May 2010 1:45 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet If your aim is to solve an issue, one of the easiest ways to do that is to offer some suggestions to how to fix it, don't you think? On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Steve Onnis st...@cfcentral.com.au wrote: Why should we be telling them what we want done? This is a marketing and sales problem and to be quite frank M$ is kicking their bums. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comcfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
