Re: [Jchat] Optical computers

[Björn Helgason]

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/goodbye-transistor-new-optical-switches-offer-up-to-1000x-better-performance#:~:text='Optical%20Accelerators'%20ditch%20electricity%2C,light%20as%20an%20exchange%20medium.=A%20collaboration%20between%20IBM%20and,up%20to%201%2C000%20times%20faster
.

I remember a proposal of matrix operations that would never stop and never
fail instead they could report eventual failings in items in the resulting
matrix.

It was in the same conference in copenhagen 1990.

It would work well with the optical computer.

On Wed, May 18, 2022, 14:28 Robert Bernecky 
wrote:

> Hi, Björn,
>
> The IEEE does a fairly decent job of keeping me informed
> about progress on the optical (and quantum) computing front.
> IEEE Spectrum, their monthly "flagship" publication is worth
> looking at, either online or at a decent technical library:
>
> https://spectrum.ieee.org/tag/optical-computing
>
> Can you give us some links and/or citations for your reading
> in this area?
>
> Thanks,
> Bob
>
>
> On 2022-05-18 10:00, Björn Helgason wrote:
> > One of the apl conferences I think it was 1989 in copenhagen there was a
> > presentation about optical computers.
> >
> > Have not heard much about it since but it looks like it is coming to the
> > surface again.
> >
> > As far as I remember the presenter said it would fit apl very well.
> >
> > Incidentally Ken Iverson gave me a copy of J on this same conference on a
> > discette.
> > --
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
> --
> Robert Bernecky
> Snake Island Research Inc
> 18 Fifth Street
> Ward's Island
> Toronto, Ontario M5J 2B9
>
> berne...@snakeisland.com
> tel:   +1 416 203 0854
> text/cell: +1 416 996 4286
>
>
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

[Jchat] Optical

[Björn Helgason]

One of the apl conferences I think it was 1989 in copenhagen there was a
presentation about optical computers.

Have not heard much about it since but it looks like it is coming to the
surface again.

As far as I remember the presenter said it would fit apl very well.

Incidentally Ken Iverson gave me a copy of J on this same conference on a
discette.
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] ibm goes down

[Björn Helgason]

When i was a product manager there I was told that when we wanted to sell
something the selling price should deliver at least 10 times more than cost.

Less than that they were not interested.

We are not in the fingers and toes business I was told.

That was 30 years ago.

They have been going downhill ever since I left.

Þann mán., 12. apr. 2021, 18:25 'Rodney Nicholson' via Chat skrifaði <
c...@jsoftware.com>:

> “ 13 layers of managers.”
>
> The explanation of their survival is, I believe, their huge profit
> margins.
>
> I still recall when they got a contract to electronically handle the
> Toronto Stock Exchange trading system where they charged $18 per
> transaction.  Their cost of course was just a few electrons per transaction.
>
> They were in effect a monopoly at the time.  And monopolies always waste
> huge quantities of resources, accordingly reducing everone’s living
> standards.
>
> Rodney.
>
>
> > On Apr 12, 2021, at 10:15 AM, Björn Helgason  wrote:
> >
> > apl lives on even if ibm goes away.
> >
> > it is really amazing that ibm is still around.
> >
> > 13 layers of managers.
> >
> > Þann mán., 12. apr. 2021, 13:51 Raul Miller skrifaði <
> rauldmil...@gmail.com
> >> :
> >
> >> That's disappointing.
> >>
> >> Not surprising -- just disappointing.
> >>
> >> Still, there's J, there's Dyalog APL, there's GNU APL, and there's k
> and q.
> >>
> >> Not to mention various hardware array concepts, such as greenarrays and
> >> gpus.
> >>
> >> And, maybe, IBM will go back up at some point?
> >>
> >> Who knows...
> >>
> >> --
> >> Raul
> >>
> >>> On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 5:05 AM Björn Helgason 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apl2-whats-new
> >>> --
> >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> >> --
> >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> >>
> > --
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] ibm goes down

[Björn Helgason]

apl lives on even if ibm goes away.

it is really amazing that ibm is still around.

13 layers of managers.

Þann mán., 12. apr. 2021, 13:51 Raul Miller skrifaði :

> That's disappointing.
>
> Not surprising -- just disappointing.
>
> Still, there's J, there's Dyalog APL, there's GNU APL, and there's k and q.
>
> Not to mention various hardware array concepts, such as greenarrays and
> gpus.
>
> And, maybe, IBM will go back up at some point?
>
> Who knows...
>
> --
> Raul
>
> On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 5:05 AM Björn Helgason  wrote:
> >
> > https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apl2-whats-new
> > --
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

[Jchat] ibm goes down

[Björn Helgason]

https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apl2-whats-new
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] c.l.a

[Björn Helgason]

-- Forwarded message -
Frá: 
Date: fim., 21. jan. 2021, 14:02
Subject: Abridged summary of comp.lang@googlegroups.com - 1 update in 1
topic
To: Abridged recipients 


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   - É DA ARRESTARE L'AVVOCATO NAZISTA, PEDOFILO ED ASSASSINO DANIELE
   MINOTTI DI GENOVA, RAPALLO E CRIMINALISSIMO STUDIO LEGALE LISI (FOTO
   https://ecampus.aicel.org/wp-content/uploads/Daniele-Minotti-300x300.jpg )!
- 1 Update

É DA ARRESTARE L'AVVOCATO NAZISTA, PEDOFILO ED ASSASSINO DANIELE MINOTTI DI
GENOVA, RAPALLO E CRIMINALISSIMO STUDIO LEGALE LISI (FOTO
https://ecampus.aicel.org/wp-content/uploads/Daniele-Minotti-300x300.jpg )!
<http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.apl/t/f9041b91c04753a9?utm_source=digest_medium=email>

Þann fim., 21. jan. 2021, 19:35 'robert therriault' via Chat skrifaði <
c...@jsoftware.com>:

> I have never seen that Bjorn.
>
> Cheers, bob
>
> > On Jan 21, 2021, at 11:32, Björn Helgason  wrote:
> >
> > I occasionally get a post to c.l.a that seems to be in italian.
> >
> > I always delete it immediately.
> >
> > I have never bothered to let google translate it for me.
> >
> > The text does not seem to be anything related to apl.
> >
> > I wonder why this is not stopped.
> >
> > Anyone here know anything about this?
> > --
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

[Jchat] c.l.a

[Björn Helgason]

I occasionally get a post to c.l.a that seems to be in italian.

I always delete it immediately.

I have never bothered to let google translate it for me.

The text does not seem to be anything related to apl.

I wonder why this is not stopped.

Anyone here know anything about this?
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] JforC in Icelandic ...

[Björn Helgason]

If you send me your e-mail address I can end you a copy.
gos...@gmail.com

On Thu, 16 Apr 2020 09:36 Martin Kreuzer,  wrote:

> In the foreword of  Henry Rich, 'J for C
> Programmers' I found this mention under
> Acknowledgements:
>
>   "I am obliged to the reviewers who commented on earlier versions: ...
>Björn Helgason translated the text into Icelandic, "
>
> I'd be interested to read that translation alongside my English text
> with a friend of mine who's studying Icelandic.
>
> Q:
> Is it publicly available as a printed text or a digital download?
>
> Any information welcome. Thanks.
>
> -M
>
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] JforC in Icelandic ...

[Björn Helgason]

I placed both the primer and jforc in the group j prograþming.
primer grunnur.pdf
jforc j fyrir c

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/J-Programming/6OqQXAH8wbI


On Thu, 16 Apr 2020 09:36 Martin Kreuzer,  wrote:

> In the foreword of  Henry Rich, 'J for C
> Programmers' I found this mention under
> Acknowledgements:
>
>   "I am obliged to the reviewers who commented on earlier versions: ...
>Björn Helgason translated the text into Icelandic, "
>
> I'd be interested to read that translation alongside my English text
> with a friend of mine who's studying Icelandic.
>
> Q:
> Is it publicly available as a printed text or a digital download?
>
> Any information welcome. Thanks.
>
> -M
>
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] The stockmarket is now run by machines.

[Björn Helgason]

I have seen many factories needing less people.
As excempel fishing factories here.
Papermills in Sweden
VolksWagen in Germany
and many more

Þann lau., 12. okt. 2019, 18:45 Raul Miller skrifaði :

> On Sat, Oct 12, 2019 at 12:34 PM Björn Helgason  wrote:
> > When I say everywhere I mean really there is not just a few specific
> kinds
> > of jobs.
> >
> > Over time we see factories that had/needing lots of people now have
> hardlly
> > anyone.
>
> I think you mean that you do not see the factories near you.
>
> Go to your supermarket.
>
> Take a look at the country of origin for stuff that came from a factory.
>
> Then think about how much you know about those factories.
>
> --
> Raul
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] The stockmarket is now run by machines.

[Björn Helgason]

When I say everywhere I mean really there is not just a few specific kinds
of jobs.

Over time we see factories that had/needing lots of people now have hardlly
anyone.

The offices are not immune.

All kinds of highly skilled work also need less people.

Taking care of the elderly are even getting machines to lift them into
their baths.

People are assisting remotely and machines taking over entrrtainment.

Machines making food

Machine assisting operating on people and doing a good job.

Whole hotels run by robots doing everything and no humans.

Cars running without drivers are already in operation.

Interestingly then low wage countries are also losing jobs and factoriez
without workers taking over.

There is talk about a revolution coming.

It is already here.

It is not a question of if only how much and when.

I only have one car now and I hardly use it  anymore.

Check it once a month to see if is still operational.

I only use electrical bikes.

There is a massive change going on there.

I am sure driverless shuttles will replace much of people transport and
moving goods will be automated pretty soon.
On 12 Oct 2019 15:16, "Raul Miller"  wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 12, 2019 at 7:55 AM Björn Helgason  wrote:
> > What is especially interesting regarding jobs lost to automation is it
> > happens so gradually and everywhere.
>
> Not everywhere.
>
> Everywhere local.
>
> At least where I am standing, "jobs lost to automation" are often
> "jobs moved elsewhere".
>
> There's several parts to this, including:
>
> (1) Manufacture of tools.
> (2) Maintenance of tools.
> (3) Supporting infrastructure.
> (4) Death of experts (war, disease, old age).
> (5) Availability of supplies.
> (6) Adequate understanding on the part of the consumer.
> (7) Poisoning of markets from substandard products.
> (8) Availability of labor.
> (9) Motivations of leaders.
>
> And you need people with significant time dedicated to improving
> things to counter entropy effects...
>
> Anyways, currently [at least in the USA] we've a shortage of people
> who understand how things work, and a massive surplus of people who
> think they know how things work. This is at least partially a
> consequence of laws and treaties which were interpreted as preventing
> taxes from being used on imports and required on domestic work. This
> structured our markets so that smart middle-managers pushed most labor
> out of the country. Net result: an absence of people with the
> experiences necessary to inform management.
>
> We're starting to see the fallout from that.
>
> It's a fixable problem, but not quickly fixable, and there's some grim
> consequences ahead of us.
>
> I don't know how things are in Europe, though. There's the stuff that
> makes it into the news, but the important stuff tends to be too boring
> to be newsworthy.
>
> But, looking at history, we have seen similar effects. Automation
> replaced skilled craftsmen, resulting in an relatively mediocre result
> being widely available to many people and a loss of expertise...  But
> this sort of thing doesn't "just happen". We, as a general rule, like
> our habits and routines, and it takes tremendous pressure to get us to
> change our ways. Until the issues become glaring, we have trouble
> distinguishing them from fraud. So there's a lot of gloom and despair
> going on behind the scenes...
>
> Anyways, currently, we've got the internet that we're adapting to,
> control of the internet is closely associated with manufacture of the
> components used to operate it as well as control of the people willing
> to invest their time messing with it. And that used to be the USA but
> see above for where that has been going...
>
> > There is often loss of well paid jobs and if the person gets a new job it
> > often pays less.
>
> Which means that, for most people, pay cannot be the deciding factor
> in their decision making process, or they're not going to know how to
> prepare for the future.
>
> Fortunately, there are a lot of fallback positions here. For people
> with dirt available to them, there's gardening. For people with
> expertise, there's using and expanding that area of expertise. For
> people with families or networks of friends, there's maintaining those
> relationships to have a cushion to land on during setbacks. Etc.
>
> > This has been happening graduaĺly over decades.
> >
> > The effects are felt all over but there is no mass problem to fight.
> >
> > Often personal tragedies but noone to complain to or get assistant fron.
>
> No family, friends, church, insurance, nor local communities? Well,
> there's always living on the streets while trying to find a job.
> Constructi

Re: [Jchat] The stockmarket is now run by machines.

[Björn Helgason]

What is especially interesting regarding jobs lost to automation is it
happens so gradually and everywhere.

People of all ages affected.

There is often loss of well paid jobs and if the person gets a new job it
often pays less.

This has been happening graduaĺly over decades.

The effects are felt all over but there is no mass problem to fight.

Often personal tragedies but noone to complain to or get assistant fron.

There is no obe machine or program replacing individuals.

More lot and lot of small instances here and there and the companies are
getting the added improvements and the owners and top brass get it all.

We have all seen this happening and not any action against it.

We happily use the machines and do not think about the people that lost
their jobs to them.

Statistics show this happening everywhere over time.

There is a qestion of safety nets or lack there of.

We who had good jobs and got good retirements are not worried about our
future but are we looking at problems for future generations?
On 9 Oct 2019 18:37, "Raul Miller"  wrote:

> Oh, maybe..
>
> That said, we do have self scanning at supermarkets here. That works
> great for some people, but not so well for others.
>
> And, some places that sell fast food let us use machines to place the
> orders. (But there's still a cashier for people who want to pay in
> cash - or you can even order at the cashier, but that's slower.) And,
> food there is still prepared "by hand" (though using other kinds of
> machines). Then again, places that pushed machine mediated
> transactions too hard (refusing cash orders) have gone out of
> business, despite having great food.
>
> And, there's a variety of stuff that we buy off the internet,
> including some kinds of food. But, mostly, not fresh food (and what
> little fresh food I've encountered via the internet tends to be priced
> extremely high).
>
> But, also, as these systems get rolled out, their shortcomings and
> failure modes start to become apparent.
>
> And, one issue which strikes me is that a lot of the designs reflect
> USA concepts which seem to fall over and break when responsibility for
> building and/or managing them is moved into countries with conflicting
> traditions. (But they seem to work fairly well in Nordic countries,
> maybe since a lot of the relevant USA traditions were originally
> Nordic...)
>
> Technical systems require bug reporting feedback, and when people
> don't know how to provide relevant information, or feel that problem
> reports are unacceptable, failures become greatly amplified.
>
> (There's lots of other issues, also, of course.)
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> --
> Raul
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 1:40 PM Björn Helgason  wrote:
> > I guess the situation is different in various places.
> >
> > Around here cashiers are disappearing.
> >
> > Self scanning at supermarkets are replacing people.
> >
> > Ordering and paying at fast food done in machines.
> >
> > People are buying all kinds of stuff over the internet and that includes
> > food
> > On 9 Oct 2019 17:09, "Raul Miller"  wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 12:57 PM Björn Helgason 
> wrote:
> > > > We do not need many outlets with cashiers anymore.
> > >
> > > And, yet, the cashiers at local franchises I visit frequently are so
> > > often having to work around failures in their register system...
> > >
> > > (These are the sort who tend to deal in fresh food - products where
> > > I'm not seeing serious competition from online systems.)
> > >
> > > So... is this "We do not need" statement a copy of some lame excuse
> > > for shoddy register systems? Or are shoddy register systems instead a
> > > consequence of people investing based on that idea? Or, are both
> > > happening and this is a self-reinforcing idea?
> > >
> > > My training suggests that stuff like this doesn't happen unless
> > > someone sets out to make it happen. But that doesn't mean I understand
> > > the goals of the people who would be responsible...
> > >
> > > Mind you - the registers *usually* work. So we can presumably mostly
> > > rely on them. But they also exhibit characteristics which suggest that
> > > there's people responsible for building them out who -- at best -- are
> > > sloppy and/or clueless.
> > >
> > > Anyways.. I should probably appreciate the optimism, but I am
> > > disturbed that we do not seem to be able to grapple with the
> > > difficulties.
> > >
> >

Re: [Jchat] The stockmarket is now run by machines.

[Björn Helgason]

I guess the situation is different in various places.

Around here cashiers are disappearing.

Self scanning at supermarkets are replacing people.

Ordering and paying at fast food done in machines.

People are buying all kinds of stuff over the internet and that includes
food
On 9 Oct 2019 17:09, "Raul Miller"  wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 12:57 PM Björn Helgason  wrote:
> > We do not need many outlets with cashiers anymore.
>
> And, yet, the cashiers at local franchises I visit frequently are so
> often having to work around failures in their register system...
>
> (These are the sort who tend to deal in fresh food - products where
> I'm not seeing serious competition from online systems.)
>
> So... is this "We do not need" statement a copy of some lame excuse
> for shoddy register systems? Or are shoddy register systems instead a
> consequence of people investing based on that idea? Or, are both
> happening and this is a self-reinforcing idea?
>
> My training suggests that stuff like this doesn't happen unless
> someone sets out to make it happen. But that doesn't mean I understand
> the goals of the people who would be responsible...
>
> Mind you - the registers *usually* work. So we can presumably mostly
> rely on them. But they also exhibit characteristics which suggest that
> there's people responsible for building them out who -- at best -- are
> sloppy and/or clueless.
>
> Anyways.. I should probably appreciate the optimism, but I am
> disturbed that we do not seem to be able to grapple with the
> difficulties.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Raul
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] The stockmarket is now run by machines.

[Björn Helgason]

It looks like banks and financial institutions are going through a big
change.
The computers are doing ever more of the work.
The number of people at least in many banks are losing their jobs.
It will be interesting to see if fraud and scams will be affected as well.
We do not need many outlets with cashiers anymore.
Interestingly many people are using their telephone to pay.
Systems are doing the bookkeeping automatically from pictures of receipts.
Many man heavy jobs are disappearing in booking and finance in general.

Þann mið., 9. okt. 2019, 16:02 Skip Cave skrifaði :

> Those participating in the J forum discussions about stock market analysis
> might like this article in the recent Economist
> magazine:
> March of the Machines
> <
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G9gfG_NEOjPBS3NPMZrn6Y4a8MXay0cK/view?usp=sharing
> >
>
> Skip Cave
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] What does "J" mean?

[Björn Helgason]

It in the middle of Reykjavik.

Stands for the religion of the vikings.
On 6 Aug 2019 10:37, "R.E. Boss"  wrote:

> Heard (quite some time ago) that J is the next letter after H and I (Hui &
> Iverson).
> It's one of the stories I believe in.
>
>
> R.E. Boss
>
>
> > -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> > Van: Chat  Namens Devon
> > McCormick
> > Verzonden: maandag 5 augustus 2019 22:36
> > Aan: Chat forum 
> > Onderwerp: Re: [Jchat] What does "J" mean?
> >
> > In case you haven't guessed by now, "J" does not stand for something
> else.
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 3:04 PM HH PackRat  wrote:
> >
> > > I thought Roger Hui's explanation was the "official" explanation,
> > > since I thought he was the one who gave the name to the language.
> > >
> > > Harvey
> > > --
> > > For information about J forums see
> > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Devon McCormick, CFA
> >
> > Quantitative Consultant
> > --
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] TABULA announcement and request

[Björn Helgason]

The new option in mail that allows you to schedule send is handy.

It gives you time to read the postings, change or regret later before it is
finally sent.

In the few days I have had this option I have collected a number of
postings that are waiting in the queue.

On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:55 Don Guinn,  wrote:

> Oops! shouldn't post when I'm about to go to sleep on my phone.
> Sequestering has always made me nervous as I wondered how much energy was
> required to sequester and what happens to the products of sequestration. So
> I looked and found there are many methods. Many do not require energy
> supplied as chemical reactions are exothermic. But some require energy.
> Some may require as much as 25% of the power generated by a power plant
> reducing its output.
>
> What happens to the products? First, they don't remove carbon. They remove
> carbon dioxide. Some processes create chemicals that can be used to make
> food stock and have other uses. Many are just burying the carbon dioxide.
>
> The problem is complex. There is more to this problem than just the cost to
> sequester.
>
> On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 9:52 PM Don Guinn  wrote:
>
> > Just out of curiosity, I suspect that sequestering carbon is exothermic,
> > not exothermic. So what is the net gain since the energy probably comes
> > from carbon based generating power plants?
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 26, 2019, 5:29 PM Jose Mario Quintana <
> > jose.mario.quint...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "
> >> Whether it does or not, a
> >> British Columbia-based firm called Carbon Engineering has built a plant
> to
> >> capture CO2 from the atmosphere, at a cost of <$100 per metric ton (100
> >> USD/t).
> >> "
> >>
> >> The video at the link,
> >>
> >> Bill Gates and Big Oil back this company that’s trying to solve climate
> >> change by sucking CO2 out of the air
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/21/carbon-engineering-co2-capture-backed-by-bill-gates-oil-companies.html
> >>
> >> using information from last year puts the cost at "$94-232 per ton of
> >> CO2."
> >>
> >> For what is worth, this is yet another alternative suggested by Gregory
> >> Benford:
> >>
> >> Put a Fresnel lens at the (Earth-Sun) Lagrangian point L1 to reduce the
> >> solar energy reaching the Earth by 0.5% to 1% with an estimated (more
> than
> >> a decade ago) cost of $10B.
> >>
> >> As a potential bonus, assuming that the positive feedback loop of CO2
> and
> >> temperature which has been "confirmed" stands, more CO2 (in the
> >> atmosphere)
> >> -> higher (global) temperature -> more CO2 -> ... and presumably, lower
> >> temperature -> less CO2 -> lower temperature -> ...
> >>
> >> Interestingly, in his introduction to the mid-nineties FAR FUTURES
> >> anthology he wrote:
> >>
> >> "Current thinking holds that the big, long term problem we face is the
> >> loss
> >> of carbon dioxide from our air. This gas, the food of the plants, gets
> >> locked up in rocks. Photosynthetic organisms down at the very base of
> the
> >> food chain extract carbon from air, cutting the life change."
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 12:18 PM Ian Clark 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> > The addons math/tabula and its parent addons math/cal and math/uu have
> >> been
> >> > largely rewritten and are now far stabler than they were.
> >> >
> >> > The main way to get to grips with TABULA is via studying the built-in
> >> > t-tables ("TABULA-tables") SAMPLE0--SAMPLE9…
> >> >
> >> > https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/TABULA/samples
> >> >
> >> > The last one, SAMPLE9, is particularly noteworthy. See this page for
> >> > details…
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/TABULA/samples/cost_to_capture_atmospheric_CO2
> >> >
> >> > Atmospheric CO2 concentration has been rising steadily since 1960,
> when
> >> it
> >> > first began to be measured regularly at Mauna Loa, HI. At that time it
> >> > stood at <320 ppm (parts-per-million). Now it stands at >400 ppm, an
> >> > increase of over 80 ppm.
> >> >
> >> > This observed level of atmospheric carbon is gaining wider acceptance
> as
> >> > having a damaging effect on the world's climate. Whether it does or
> >> not, a
> >> > British Columbia-based firm called Carbon Engineering has built a
> plant
> >> to
> >> > capture CO2 from the atmosphere, at a cost of <$100 per metric ton
> (100
> >> > USD/t). They have attracted $68 million investments from Chevron,
> >> > Occidental and coal giant BHP.
> >> >
> >> > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-47638586
> >> >
> >> > I don't want to take sides over this. Nor to invite the taking of
> sides
> >> in
> >> > this thread. Rather it's my aim to develop tools to help the rest of
> us
> >> > explore the figures for ourselves, whatever side we're on. Relying on
> >> > specialists to do the calculations is simply to promote a new world
> >> > religion, with applied mathematicians as its priesthood.
> >> >
> >> > So I thought I'd take Carbon Engineering's current price and use
> TABULA
> >> to
> >> 

[Jchat] send later

[Björn Helgason]

There is a new interesting option in mail.

I am writing this on saturday and schedule it to be sent later.

I can choose a date and time.

Until it is sent I can change it or delete.

Has some interesting uses.

I have used similar in calendar and project control for years but this here
for mail is new to me.

Now that I am going to send it off I of course discover I have not
installed this feature on current device.

I save it in drafts and move to another device.
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] TABULA announcement and request

[Björn Helgason]

relying on false data and defect models does not help much.
it is mostly scaremongering and does not seem to lead anywhere.
we have no explanation and nothing we can do.
scaring kids is mostly just cruel.

Þann lau., 22. jún. 2019, 15:42 Donna Y skrifaði :

> Climate change is not good or bad. Relying on the climate not changing,
> depending on the same climate conditions extending forever may get you into
> trouble. It doesn’t hurt to know what to anticipate and also to understand
> if there is anyway to steer climate away from catastrophic condition.
>
> To model CO2
>
> >  a number of datasets which describe the exchange of carbon dioxide
> between Earth's surface and atmosphere. They were used in simulations of
> atmospheric CO2 using the GISS three-dimensional tracer transport model.
> >
> > Individual files according to source may be downloaded via the following
> links; All are gzipped ASCII-text tables and none exceed 18-kb in length.
> >
> > Alternatively, you may download this entire collection of carbon dioxide
> data in one of two ways:
> >
> > Complete tar-and-gzip archive <
> https://data.giss.nasa.gov/co2_fung/co2fung.tar.gz> (550 kB) including
> all of the individual ASCII files.
> > All data in one netCDF file <
> https://data.giss.nasa.gov/co2_fung/co2_fung.nc> (670 kB).
> > Available Information
> > The following datasets are available. All are gzipped ASCII-text files.
> >
> > CO2 release from fossil fuel burning <
> https://data.giss.nasa.gov/co2_fung/CO2FOS.MRL.txt.gz>
> > Derived from Marland (1989). We distribute 1987 data for each country
> according to the population density in each 1°×1° cell for that country.
> The resolution is 1°×1°, that of the population data base. The unit of the
> array is 106 kg C/m2/y. No seasonal variations. Global source strength =
> 5.3×1012 kg/y
> > CO2 release from land use modification <
> https://data.giss.nasa.gov/co2_fung/CO2DEF.HOU.txt.gz>
> > Derived from Houghton et al. (1989). We distribute Houghton et al.'s
> data uniformly across the area of each country. The resolution is 1°×1°,
> that of the country data base. The unit of the array is 108 kg C/m2/y. No
> seasonal variations. Global source strength = 0.3×1012 kg/y.
> > CO2 exchange with the oceans <
> https://data.giss.nasa.gov/co2_fung/CO2OCN.TAK.txt.gz>
> > At 4°×5° resolution, this is the del(pCO2) pattern reported as Figure 1
> in Broecker et al. (1986), multiplied by gas exhange rates based on 14C.
> The pattern was used in curve (d) in Figure 1 of Tans et al. (1990). More
> recent data have not been released by Takahashi. The unit of the array is
> 107 kg C/m2/y. No seasonal variations. Global source strength = - 2.6×1012
> kg C/y.
> > Monthly exchange with natural ecosystems (e.g., vegetation and soils):
> > Twelve files: JAN <https://data.giss.nasa.gov/co2_fung/CO2VEG.JAN.txt.gz>,
> FEB <https://data.giss.nasa.gov/co2_fung/CO2VEG.FEB.txt.gz>, MAR <
> https://data.giss.nasa.gov/co2_fung/CO2VEG.MAR.txt.gz>, APR <
> https://data.giss.nasa.gov/co2_fung/CO2VEG.APR.txt.gz>, MAY <
> https://data.giss.nasa.gov/co2_fung/CO2VEG.MAY.txt.gz>, JUN <
> https://data.giss.nasa.gov/co2_fung/CO2VEG.JUN.txt.gz>, JUL <
> https://data.giss.nasa.gov/co2_fung/CO2VEG.JUL.txt.gz>, AUG <
> https://data.giss.nasa.gov/co2_fung/CO2VEG.AUG.txt.gz>, SEP <
> https://data.giss.nasa.gov/co2_fung/CO2VEG.SEP.txt.gz>, OCT <
> https://data.giss.nasa.gov/co2_fung/CO2VEG.OCT.txt.gz>, NOV <
> https://data.giss.nasa.gov/co2_fung/CO2VEG.NOV.txt.gz>, DEC <
> https://data.giss.nasa.gov/co2_fung/CO2VEG.DEC.txt.gz>
> > These are the arrays used in Fung et al. (1987) and have resolution of
> 4°×5°. The unit of the array is 1013 kg C/m2/s. One array per month. The
> global annual source should add up approximately to zero (given vagaries of
> number of days per month and ways to interpolate between months).
> Donna Y
> dy...@sympatico.ca
>
>
> > On Jun 22, 2019, at 9:24 AM, Björn Helgason  wrote:
> >
> > A long time ago when the computers started to be able to make computer
> > graphics I went to a class telling us about how to make good graphs.
> >
> > It also told us all kinds of things to avoid not to confuse the reader.
> >
> > Like when you show increase in wine consumtion from 2 to 4 and plot the
> > bars looking like barrels so the reader would get the impression in a 3d
> > image in his mind even if the height of the barrels were just double.
> >
> > The practise of showing the y scale is one of the worst practises.
> >
> > Very small changes made to look very big.
> >
> 

Re: [Jchat] TABULA announcement and request

[Björn Helgason]

A long time ago when the computers started to be able to make computer
graphics I went to a class telling us about how to make good graphs.

It also told us all kinds of things to avoid not to confuse the reader.

Like when you show increase in wine consumtion from 2 to 4 and plot the
bars looking like barrels so the reader would get the impression in a 3d
image in his mind even if the height of the barrels were just double.

The practise of showing the y scale is one of the worst practises.

Very small changes made to look very big.

I once made an application that shows pollution from a factory.

The factory paid for the application.

Sometimes the filters broke so the numbers increased a lot and did not look
good so those numbers had to be filtered out.

Ever since I took the class of good presentation practises and what to
avoid I have seen every trick in the book used all over the place to
deceive the onlooker.

It looks like the most useful lesson is how to fool people.

This global warming seems to be really bad example of trying to fool
everybody and scare everybody to behave or else.

Just like a realy badreligion.

Be afraid of the gwgod or it will flood the world and kill everyone who are
not afraid.

You can not see it.
You are not allwed to speak against it.

A few years back people tried to scare you because it was getting colder.

By the way in our religion/custom hell is cold not hot.

We do not like cold.

There are good stories about our gods.

They do not tell us what to do or not to do.

There is no begging the gods.

They will not do it anyway.

On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 12:44 Don Guinn,  wrote:

> Watched the video. Interesting on comments on truncated graphs on
> temperature. On his untruncated graph started at 0 degrees Celsius. Maybe
> it was still truncated. Perhaps it should have started at 0 degrees
> Fahrenheit. Or maybe 0 degrees Kelvin. The problem is we are graphing the
> wrong thing. The problem is a temperature graph is not a good way to show
> the trend. A better way to graph would be to show the change in temperature
> from year to year and include the error range.
>
> We tend to ignore errors in measurements, particularly if the data is
> processed to 16 significant digits on a computer.
>
> Oil reserves is a good one too. In reality we don't know what the reserves
> are even to the first significant digit. Yet we want to know "precisely"
> how much there is for tax purposes and a countries security. Then throw in
> changing technology. New recovery techniques have made oil shale included
> in the reserves where it was not included before because it was impractical
> to get the oil out previously.
>
> The thing is we really don't know what makes the world's climate. We make
> guesses based on things we can measure. The air temperature and
> composition. The ocean temperature and composition. But there are many
> other variables. We don't even know what they may be.
>
> On Sat, Jun 22, 2019 at 1:24 AM Björn Helgason  wrote:
>
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQqPQ0i_fl0
> >
> > Þann fös., 21. jún. 2019, 01:54 Ian Clark skrifaði <
> earthspo...@gmail.com
> > >:
> >
> > > Jose – thank you for introducing me to Alhazen.
> > > Significantly predates René Descartes, whom I recall being taught was
> the
> > > originator of the Method of Systematic Doubt.
> > > Quite clearly the priority belongs to Alhazen.
> > >
> > > I wrote:
> > > > Like the reason why the human eye couldn't have arisen by blind
> chance.
> > >
> > > That was a serendipitous blunder. Pun not intended, and not even
> noticed,
> > > until Raul pointed it out.
> > >
> > > Yes, the Devil's Dictionary is a work of splendid absurdity, and that
> > > particular entry a topic for dangerous meditation…
> > > Perhaps we'd had gills – and lost them?
> > > Perhaps we were supposed to evolve them all by ourselves?
> > > After all, the Elohim only gave themselves a day to create us (…albeit
> > they
> > > wasted the following day).
> > > Come to think of it, nobody ever explained to me where the Garden Of
> Eden
> > > actually was – or where it disappeared to after the Fall.
> > > :-D
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 at 00:35, Jose Mario Quintana <
> > > jose.mario.quint...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > "
> > > > Science is only ever 'settled' in the sense of "it looks stable for
> > now".
> > > > "
> > > >
> > > > The following is a translation of what was reportedly written around
> > > 1,000
> > > > years ago:
> > > >
>

Re: [Jchat] TABULA announcement and request

[Björn Helgason]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQqPQ0i_fl0

Þann fös., 21. jún. 2019, 01:54 Ian Clark skrifaði :

> Jose – thank you for introducing me to Alhazen.
> Significantly predates René Descartes, whom I recall being taught was the
> originator of the Method of Systematic Doubt.
> Quite clearly the priority belongs to Alhazen.
>
> I wrote:
> > Like the reason why the human eye couldn't have arisen by blind chance.
>
> That was a serendipitous blunder. Pun not intended, and not even noticed,
> until Raul pointed it out.
>
> Yes, the Devil's Dictionary is a work of splendid absurdity, and that
> particular entry a topic for dangerous meditation…
> Perhaps we'd had gills – and lost them?
> Perhaps we were supposed to evolve them all by ourselves?
> After all, the Elohim only gave themselves a day to create us (…albeit they
> wasted the following day).
> Come to think of it, nobody ever explained to me where the Garden Of Eden
> actually was – or where it disappeared to after the Fall.
> :-D
>
>
> On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 at 00:35, Jose Mario Quintana <
> jose.mario.quint...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > "
> > Science is only ever 'settled' in the sense of "it looks stable for now".
> > "
> >
> > The following is a translation of what was reportedly written around
> 1,000
> > years ago:
> >
> > *The duty of the man who investigates the writings of scientists, if
> > learning the truth is his goal, is to make himself an enemy of all that
> he
> > reads, and attack it from every side. He should also suspect himself as
> he
> > performs his critical examination of it, so that he may avoid falling
> into
> > either prejudice or leniency.*
> >
> >
> > *— Alhazen (Ibn al-Haytham)*
> >
> > More recently, the following is attributed to Karl Popper:
> >
> > *No number of sightings of white swans can prove the theory that all
> swans
> > are white. The sighting of just one black one may disprove it.*
> >
> > "
> > My vision of TABULA is as a tool to show students what's possible. Not to
> > chisel out idols to bow down to.
> > "
> >
> > Amen  ;)
> >
> > "
> > Like the reason why the human eye couldn't have arisen by blind chance.
> > "
> >
> > For some reason that reminded me of the following entry in the *Devil's
> > Dictionary*:
> >
> > *Ocean, n. A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for
> > man—who has no gills.*
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 12:41 PM Ian Clark 
> wrote:
> >
> > > > (…"the science is settled").
> > >
> > > Science is only ever "settled" in the sense of "it looks stable for
> now".
> > >
> > > My vision of TABULA is as a tool to show students what's possible. Not
> to
> > > chisel out idols to bow down to.
> > >
> > > And I mean it primarily for students. What I recall of school was
> > enduring
> > > impatience with debates on matters where we knew the answer was known.
> We
> > > wanted to be told what was so and what wasn't. And when it wasn't, we
> > > wanted to be given one reason why not, to hurl back at critics. Battle
> > > cries, not debates.
> > >
> > > But some of the "reasons" we were given don't stand up to simple
> > modelling.
> > > Like the reason why the human eye couldn't have arisen by blind chance.
> > Or
> > > that natural selection can give rise to sterile worker ants (Darwin
> > spent a
> > > lot of time on these topics:
> > > http://www.gutenberg.org/files/22764/22764-h/22764-h.htm#page171 ).
> > >
> > > Maybe that's just the cultural bubble I was brought up in? I hope
> that's
> > > the case, and it's a bubble long burst. But I see little evidence of it
> > > with my children, and now grandchildren.
> > > --
> > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> > >
> > --
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> >
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] TABULA announcement and request

[Björn Helgason]

https://youtu.be/WNEQo6lk9ko

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 07:25 Ian Clark,  wrote:

> Thank you, Donna. There is material here I can use in additional case
> studies to exhibit TABULA in action.
>
> Yes, I'm using out-of-date figures, but they're nicely rounded figures,
> which make it easier to see what's going on in the model. Even if I used
> up-to-date figures (…and I was aware of them), they'd go out of date by
> next year. Things are beginning to move fast.
>
> But one of my points of concern was checking primary sources for the input
> figures to the model. If these figures show different values to the ones
> I've used, e.g. 415 ppm as against my >400, then should I use actual
> figures, or nice tidy ones that make for an uncluttered display? I haven't
> come to a decision about this. There are arguments both ways.
>
> It's no big deal to extend the model to estimate the number of plants that
> Carbon Engineering would have to build, and the fact that SAMPLE9 doesn't
> do that is arguably an omission. But to calculate it I'd need to pluck a
> figure out of the air for a completion date for the project. The UK has
> just committed to becoming carbon neutral by 2050. Is that a figure I
> should challenge? No, because it's in print from official sources and
> easily checked. But if one were to ask: is that a reliable figure to plan
> on, I have my doubts, because pressure is already growing to bring the date
> forward by two or three decades.
>
> So the region of doubt is so large that maybe it's best to leave that
> particular calculation out of SAMPLE9. After all, I'm not proposing to use
> it to advise the British government. I'm proposing to use it to teach
> 14-18-year-olds what mathematical modelling is all about and how to use
> TABULA for this sort of thing. Here simplicity scores over accuracy.
> Refining the model is an exercise left to the reader.
>
> A UK Treasury official told me once they had a saying: figures can't lie,
> but lies can figure. I'm leaning over backwards *here* (and I stress
> "here") to avoid muddying the clear waters of mathematical modelling with
> preaching, or anything that could be mistaken for it. Gottfried Leibnitz
> had a vision of a world in which debates on public policy would not be
> conducted in an atmosphere of passion and ignorance, where nobody could
> distinguish evidence from prejudice. Instead he foresaw… "…if controversies
> were to arise, there would be no more need of disputation between two
> philosophers than between two calculators. For it would suffice for them to
> take their pencils in their hands and to sit down at the abacus, and say to
> each other […]: Let Us Calculate."
>
> I share that vision. TABULA is my 21st-century abacus – my 2-cents
> contribution to its fulfilment.
>
> That's not to say we shouldn't start another thread on the topic of global
> warming and have a good sound-off about it. But others might reasonably ask
> whether that debate isn't better conducted on other platforms, such as
> Nature https://www.nature.com/npjclimatsci/
>
> Meanwhile I've appealed to the collective wisdom of the J community for
> their views on the way I've chosen to promote TABULA. In particular the
> models I've chosen as mini case studies. I badly need its answers, and hope
> to use them. It's a big question I've asked, but a restricted one. I'm keen
> to focus on the topic (in this thread) because I'm afraid that bringing in
> wider issues will either derail the proceedings or dilute them and make it
> hard to recognise answers I can use.
>
> The updated figures you've kindly provided don't make a lot of difference
> to the "bottom line", if we can call item {13} that. What I'm afraid of are
> factors of 10 or 100 creeping in. The great thing about published estimates
> for the things I'm calculating is: if they're the same order of magnitude
> then it's some assurance that TABULA itself isn't injecting gross errors
> into the estimate.
>
>
>
> On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 at 01:53, Donna Y  wrote:
>
> > >  I'd be happy if I could establish the model as at
> > > least being a start in the direction of accurately costing the carbon
> in
> > > the atmosphere.
> >
> > >
> >
> https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/TABULA/samples/cost_to_capture_atmospheric_CO2
> > <
> >
> https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/TABULA/samples/cost_to_capture_atmospheric_CO2
> > >
> >
> > > Atmospheric CO2 concentration has been rising steadily since 1960, when
> > it
> > > first began to be measured regularly at Mauna Loa, HI. At that time it
> > > stood at <320 ppm (parts-per-million). Now it stands at >400 ppm, an
> > > increase of over 80 ppm.
> >
> > Yes my comment was about what you said you wanted to model and not
> TABULA.
> >
> >
> > This April, the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere hit 415
> > parts per million for the first time. It’s the highest level in human
> > history.
> >
> > Current emissions are around 40 giga-tons a year.
> >
> > So far – we got a free 

[Jchat] Horfðu á „APL Blossom Time Live Lyrics“ á YouTube

[Björn Helgason]

https://youtu.be/g4xvjfr297E
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] [Jprogramming] One-based indices

[Björn Helgason]

Having more than one origin can ne confusing.
In other APL dialects you can set the index origin.
It causes problems.
Adding one is an easy solution if you need it.
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

[Jchat] go

[Björn Helgason]

I do not know go.

Is it something to combine with J?

https://www.technotification.com/2018/06/go-programming-language.html/amp
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] How close is J to APL?

[Björn Helgason]

The 3279 was not a graphical screen.
To make graphics the graphics were made by creating fonts and then
displaying the fonts and they presented the graphics.
Not very efficient but it worked.
Apls graphpak was great and way ahead of anything else.
Apl and gddm really did wonders.

On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 08:03 Björn Helgason,  wrote:

> 3279 had apl characters.
> graphical and colour.
>
> On Sat, 16 Jun 2018 21:27 Don Guinn,  wrote:
>
>> Other problems. Never heard of a print train with APL characters for high
>> speed printers. Had to have a special type ball for Selectric typewriters.
>> It wasn't until the late 1970's that teletype matrix terminals started
>> supporting APL characters. Likewise for 3270 monitors.
>> --
>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] How close is J to APL?

[Björn Helgason]

For a long time equipment to get graphics off the screens were very
expensive
Had to learn to use cameras to take pictures of the screen.
Experts on filters etc.

On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 14:15 Robert Bernecky,  wrote:

> A few points:
>
> - The BGT (Blasted Goldball Terminals) were indeed noisy, but
> they did make a better carbon copy than the 327X screens.
>
> - I wrote what was the first "teletype support" for SHARP APL,
>I think in 1972 or 1973, for our University of Toronto in-house site.
>Character mapping, was a nightmare, and none of us (Roger Moore
>and I)  were never happy with any of the schemes we used for them.
>
> - The APL-ASCII terminals came along later, in two flavors - "bit-paired"
>and "typewriter-paired", due to the terminal manufacturers' inability
>to agree on anything. These were either dot-matrix terminals
>or "print wheel"-based ones. I think the latter were made possible by
>the advent of small, inexpensive stepping motors.
>
> - We did have APL print trains on the 1403N1 printers with UCS.
>The earlier 1403 printers, with print chains, did not have APL,
>so this was A Great Advance.  The print chains were not amenable
>to local mods, but the trains had print slugs that you could replace,
>to make a custom character set.
>
> Bob
>
> On 2018-06-17 04:18 AM, Ian Clark wrote:
> > At the IBM Scientific Centre in Peterlee we had 3270-series terminals for
> > APL characters from 1975, I'm pretty sure. But I learned my APL around
> 1973
> > on an EBCDIC-only 3277. No, I didn't use that absurd curly bracketed
> > notation – the first mainframe APL I used was APLSV, which had separate
> > 256-byte input- and output-tables as editable text files. If you had a
> > spare afternoon you could customise them however you liked, and I
> > cobbled-up a usable APL alphabet (small-e for epsilon, small-i for iota,
> > etc) omitting the rarer characters like domino and covering them if
> needed,
> > or copy/pasting the character from quadAV.
> >
> > When at last I was able to type real APL characters I didn't take to them
> > at all – I couldn't read the code.
> >
> > But nobody ever read the code. APL was proud of being a Write-Only
> > language. But I felt the shame. There I was, able to read assembly code
> as
> > fluently as a newspaper, but I couldn't read an APL program I had just
> > written.
> >
> > Fortunately I never had to use one of those blasted golfball terminals
> > which sounded like a tommy gun. They were in heavy use by our project
> > partners ADSS Mohansic for prototyping software (in APL) intended for the
> > hush-hush FS (Future-Series) mainframe. When you walked into their lab,
> > with a hundred APL programmers all beavering away, the noise was
> deafening.
> >
> > In those days computers were IPL-ed daily (Initial Program Load-ed) – and
> > the FS prototype took longer and longer to IPL as emulation piled on
> > emulation (I think they were using APL to emulate the instruction set!)
> > Eventually it exceeded 24 hours, at which point the project was
> cancelled,
> > to great staff and customer consternation.
> >
> > So the story goes.
> >
> > Shortly afterward, on one of my regular transatlantic jaunts, I referred
> > airily in conversation to an "Iverson Ball". My interlocutor, a
> born-again
> > evangelical, curtly informed me it was called the Iverson Printing
> Element.
> >
> > Ian
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 10:26 PM, Don Guinn  wrote:
> >
> >> Other problems. Never heard of a print train with APL characters for
> high
> >> speed printers. Had to have a special type ball for Selectric
> typewriters.
> >> It wasn't until the late 1970's that teletype matrix terminals started
> >> supporting APL characters. Likewise for 3270 monitors.
> >> --
> >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> >>
> > --
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
> --
> Robert Bernecky
> Snake Island Research Inc
> 18 Fifth Street
> Ward's Island
> Toronto, Ontario M5J 2B9
>
> berne...@snakeisland.com
> tel:   +1 416 203 0854
> text/cell: +1 416 996 4286
>
>
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] How close is J to APL?

[Björn Helgason]

3279 had apl characters.
graphical and colour.

On Sat, 16 Jun 2018 21:27 Don Guinn,  wrote:

> Other problems. Never heard of a print train with APL characters for high
> speed printers. Had to have a special type ball for Selectric typewriters.
> It wasn't until the late 1970's that teletype matrix terminals started
> supporting APL characters. Likewise for 3270 monitors.
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] J, APL, or calendars?

[Björn Helgason]

beenary numbers

https://m.phys.org/news/2018-06-scientists-bees-concept.html

On Fri, 8 Jun 2018 07:40 'Bo Jacoby' via Chat,  wrote:

> Cardinal numbers (0, 1, 2, . . .) are  including 0 (zero).
> Ordinal numbers (1, 2, 3, . . .) are  starting with 1 (first). There is no
> "zeroth".
> There is arithmetic of cardinal numbers (including the J verbs + * ^ ! ) ,
> but there is no arithmetic of ordinal numbers.
> The codes of the UDC are important numerical objects, but they are neither
> integers, nor decimal fractions, nor rational numbers, nor real numbers,
> nor complex numbers, nor quaternions, nor vectors, nor matrices, nor
> functions, nor operators. They have been neglected by mathematicians.
> A new kind of numbers must be considered. I dubbed them  'ordinal
> fractions' .
> A cardinal number, such as 'one', counts a set.
> An ordinal number, such as 'the first', identifies an element in a set.
> A cardinal fraction, such as 'one half', measures a part of a totality.
> An ordinal fraction, such as 'the first half', identifies a part of a
> totality.
> Consider for simplicity the binary, rather than the decimal, notation.
> one = 1 = 0001. The digit positions, right to left, indicate ones, twos,
> fours, and eights, and the digit values are one-digit binary cardinal
> numbers, 0 and 1.
> the first = 1 = 0001. This is the cardinal number corresponding to the
> ordinal number in question.
> one half = 0.1 = 0.1000. The digit positions after the binary point
> indicate halfs, fourths, eights, and sixteenths, and the digit values are
> one-digit binary cardinal numbers, 0 and 1.
> the first half = ?
> My solution to this problem is
> the first half = 1 = 1000
> the second half = 2 = 2000
>
> the first fourth = 11 = 1100
>
> the second fourth = 12 = 1200
>
> the third fourth = 21 = 2100
>
> the fourth fourth = 22 = 2200
>
> the odd fourths = 01 = 0100
> the even fourths = 02 = 0200
> the sixteenth sixteenth = 
> Note that the digit positions indicate halfs, fourths, eights, and
> sixteenths, and the digit values are either 1 meaning first, and 2 meaning
> second, or 0 meaning both. 1000 means: first half, both fourths, both
> eights, both sixteenths. 'both' goes without saying, just as 0 goes without
> saying. 1000 = 1 = first half. That is one reason for choosing 0 for
> 'both'.
> I did not know the words hyponymy and hypernymy. Thanks! That is just what
> I need.
> In logic I let 1 and 2 represent True and False. 0 means unknown or
> unimportant.
>
> The Transylvanian problem:
> 0001 Minna is human
>
> 0002 Minna is vampire
> 0010 Minna is sane
> 0020 Minna is insane
> 0100 Lucy is human
> 0200 Lucy is vampire
> 1000 Lucy is sane
> 2000 Lucy is insane
> Check the 2^4 ordinal fractions from  to  against the data. (I
> have not done it)
> Thanks! Bo. .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Den 5:58 fredag den 8. juni 2018 skrev Donna Y :
>
>
>  Can we agree on definitions
>
> Ordinal numbers and Cardinal numbers are Natural numbers which do no
> include the number 0. The Natural numbers are well ordered.
> Whole numbers are the Natural numbers and 0. 0 is the least element of the
> Whole numbers.
> Integers are Whole numbers and Negative signed Natural numbers. (-n + n=
> 0  Zero is not a positive or a negative integer—0 has no sign.) The set of
> integers has no least element.
> Real numbers are continuous and complete and can be rational or
> irrational—rational numbers are integers and fractions, irrational numbers
> cannot be expressed as a ratio of two integers.
> Imaginary numbers are not real—they exist in another dimension—root
> negative 1 or i, complex numbers have real and imaginary components.
>
> Tables are two dimensional arrays.
>
> The basic structure of UDC is hierarchy but it could be viewed in other
> ways—as you said yourself.
>
> Are you using tables where Rows are records and Columns are attributes? Is
> there a primary key?
>
> I am not sure where your Ordinal Fraction comes in but a computer
> application of UDC would need full integration of information retrieval
> (IR) features into a database management system (DBMS).
>
> Right truncation specifies hypernomy (is a—as in number theory is a subset
> of mathematics)—I copied this table but from my view forms of higher degree
> is not a subset of diophantine equations.
>
> Table 1:
>
> 5: mathematics and natural sciences
> 51: mathematics
> 511: number theory
> 511.5: diophantine equations
> 511.57: forms of higher degree
>
> What is the precise reason you chose to use 0 as a wild card?—why not * or
> # or & or … ? What advantages are derived by using 0?  For example when you
> use boolean logic the 0 and 1 can represent False and True and then the
> result vector of 0 and 1 can be used for selection.
>
> hat does this even mean?
>
> > For example: 0=0 and 0>1 and 1<0 and 10<>01 and 1><2. (meaning that the
> whole is equal to the whole, and the whole comprises the first part, and
> the first part is part of the whole, 

Re: [Jchat] J, APL, or calendars?

[Björn Helgason]

some people say half seven meaning 18:30 while others mean 19:30.

lot of different meanings and sign language is also very different in
different parts of the world.
On 5 Jun 2018 12:46, "'Bo Jacoby' via Chat"  wrote:

> The proposed calender addresses points in time rather than intervals of
> time. It does'n address "the twentyfirst century". Before the advent of
> clocks the hours were addressed by ordinal numbers, like "the eleventh
> hour", but a clock shows the cardinal number of hours and minutes elapsed
> since midnight or midday. Thus the second hour starts just after one
> o'clock and ends at two o'clock.
>
> Den 8:23 tirsdag den 5. juni 2018 skrev Björn Helgason <
> gos...@gmail.com>:
>
>
>  https://marymagdalenefrancetours.com/did-jesus-live-in-france/
>
> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 04:00 PR PackRat,  wrote:
>
> > On 6/4/18, Jose Mario Quintana  wrote:
> > > Harvey wrote:
> > >> It's just the way it is.
> >
> > I merely intended to inject some reality.  Despite all of the
> > discussions and arguments pro and con for various perspectives,
> > nothing is going to change current civilization regarding dates and
> > times.  Everybody in these discussions can view it the way they want,
> > accommodate their programming to the realities of the world, and life
> > will go on.
> >
> > > ... Then, it gets even worse due to Greek and
> > > Roman influence: one year of 12 months, numbered from 1 to 12 (when
> > > the months are not explicitly named), and months of different numbers
> of
> > > days, numbered from 1 to the last day,
> >
> > If you want all the gory details, go to pages 987-1003 of volume 4 of
> > the 11th edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica
> > <
> > https://books.google.com/books?id=mP4tIAAJ=frontcover=
> editions:XzxQJyk6QDAC=en=X=0ahUKEwil-
> YTBqLvbAhUrzoMKHRxCDaAQuwUIRDAF#v=onepage=false
> > >.
> >
> > In brief, the old Roman calendar (as revised by Julius Caesar) started
> > in what is now March.  It had months with the number of days
> > alternating between 31 and 30 (except the last month, February, had
> > 29).  (Another way of looking at it is that the odd-numbered months
> > had the odd number of days, 31, and the even-numbered months had the
> > even number of days, 30, except for the last month, February.)  The
> > months had numbers as their names.  (We still have the names September
> > through December from the original 7th through 10th months.  Using our
> > way of naming them, the 5th and 6th months would have been Quintember
> > and Sextember.)  After Julius Caesar's death, Quintember's name was
> > changed to July to honor him.  Later, Augustus Caesar had such a high
> > estimation of himself that he renamed Sextember to August and, in
> > order to also have 31 days in that month like Julius Caesar, he
> > "stole" a day from the last month, February, leaving it with only 28
> > days.  However, this created three 31-day months in a row, and so the
> > next several months were adjusted in terms of 31 and 30 days, so that
> > there would be no more than 2 months back-to-back with 31 days.  At
> > this time the equinox occurred on March 25, but, because there was no
> > adjustment for the slight difference between the calendar year (even
> > with leap years) and the true solar year, the equinox had precessed to
> > March 21 by the time of the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD (when the date
> > of Easter was determined).  At some point in history, the year
> > switched to start on January 1 rather than March 25 (which was the
> > original equinox date and the date of the Annunciation, 9 months
> > before Christmas).  However, that was not the case in England, which
> > retained New Year's Day on March 25 and did not drop days at the time
> > of the Gregorian calendar reform.  (One of the purposes of the 10-day
> > reform was to get the equinox back on the date it was at the Council
> > of Nicaea, March 21--by 1582 it was on March 11.)  Finally, in 1750
> > England passed a law that, beginning in 1752, 11 days (an extra day
> > had accumulated by that time) would be dropped from the calendar to
> > synchronize with the rest of Europe and that the civil year would
> > begin on January 1 rather than March 25. This created an interesting
> > situation because anyone who had been born between January 1 and March
> > 24 had not only a change in date but also a change in their birth
> > year.  For example, George Washington was originally born February 11,
> > 1731 (O.S. = Old Style), but, with the calend

Re: [Jchat] J, APL, or calendars?

[Björn Helgason]

https://marymagdalenefrancetours.com/did-jesus-live-in-france/

On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 04:00 PR PackRat,  wrote:

> On 6/4/18, Jose Mario Quintana  wrote:
> > Harvey wrote:
> >> It's just the way it is.
>
> I merely intended to inject some reality.  Despite all of the
> discussions and arguments pro and con for various perspectives,
> nothing is going to change current civilization regarding dates and
> times.  Everybody in these discussions can view it the way they want,
> accommodate their programming to the realities of the world, and life
> will go on.
>
> > ... Then, it gets even worse due to Greek and
> > Roman influence: one year of 12 months, numbered from 1 to 12 (when
> > the months are not explicitly named), and months of different numbers of
> > days, numbered from 1 to the last day,
>
> If you want all the gory details, go to pages 987-1003 of volume 4 of
> the 11th edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica
> <
> https://books.google.com/books?id=mP4tIAAJ=frontcover=editions:XzxQJyk6QDAC=en=X=0ahUKEwil-YTBqLvbAhUrzoMKHRxCDaAQuwUIRDAF#v=onepage=false
> >.
>
> In brief, the old Roman calendar (as revised by Julius Caesar) started
> in what is now March.  It had months with the number of days
> alternating between 31 and 30 (except the last month, February, had
> 29).  (Another way of looking at it is that the odd-numbered months
> had the odd number of days, 31, and the even-numbered months had the
> even number of days, 30, except for the last month, February.)  The
> months had numbers as their names.  (We still have the names September
> through December from the original 7th through 10th months.  Using our
> way of naming them, the 5th and 6th months would have been Quintember
> and Sextember.)  After Julius Caesar's death, Quintember's name was
> changed to July to honor him.  Later, Augustus Caesar had such a high
> estimation of himself that he renamed Sextember to August and, in
> order to also have 31 days in that month like Julius Caesar, he
> "stole" a day from the last month, February, leaving it with only 28
> days.  However, this created three 31-day months in a row, and so the
> next several months were adjusted in terms of 31 and 30 days, so that
> there would be no more than 2 months back-to-back with 31 days.  At
> this time the equinox occurred on March 25, but, because there was no
> adjustment for the slight difference between the calendar year (even
> with leap years) and the true solar year, the equinox had precessed to
> March 21 by the time of the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD (when the date
> of Easter was determined).  At some point in history, the year
> switched to start on January 1 rather than March 25 (which was the
> original equinox date and the date of the Annunciation, 9 months
> before Christmas).  However, that was not the case in England, which
> retained New Year's Day on March 25 and did not drop days at the time
> of the Gregorian calendar reform.  (One of the purposes of the 10-day
> reform was to get the equinox back on the date it was at the Council
> of Nicaea, March 21--by 1582 it was on March 11.)  Finally, in 1750
> England passed a law that, beginning in 1752, 11 days (an extra day
> had accumulated by that time) would be dropped from the calendar to
> synchronize with the rest of Europe and that the civil year would
> begin on January 1 rather than March 25. This created an interesting
> situation because anyone who had been born between January 1 and March
> 24 had not only a change in date but also a change in their birth
> year.  For example, George Washington was originally born February 11,
> 1731 (O.S. = Old Style), but, with the calendar reform, that changed
> to February 22, 1732 (N.S. = New Style)--the date we know nowadays.
> It took a long period of time for people in both England and the
> American colonies to become accustomed to this change and to change
> all the various records and references to dates.
>
> > and the number of days of one
> > particular month depends on awfully complicated rules!
>
> Actually, it's rather easy--it all depends on the number 4.  If you're
> dealing with century years (100 years, ending with 00), then it's a
> leap year if the century year is divisible by 400 (100x4); otherwise
> it's not a leap year.  If you're dealing with a non-century year, then
> it's a leap year if it's divisible by 4; otherwise it's not a leap
> year.  (Always do the century test first--then the rule is simple.)
>
> Technically, the Gregorian "fix" very slightly over-corrects the
> calculation, and so some have suggested the following preliminary step
> (neither you nor I will be around when this might become necessary):
> if you're dealing with millenial years (1000 years, ending with 000),
> then if the millennial year is divisible by 4000 (1000x4), it is NOT a
> leap year.  But even that needs correction about every 20,000 years!
>
> I won't be here, but with all this talk about time, I think it will be
> very interesting to 

Re: [Jchat] J, APL, or calendars?

[Björn Helgason]

the 2 Apl

On Fri, 1 Jun 2018 14:01 Donna Y,  wrote:

> Roger was also at the table as well as others from IPSharp when Ken told
> me about the Book of J—a book written by Bloom around 1989 that presented
> the theory held by Bloom and others that J as a oman—
>
> > My J is a Gevurah ("great lady") of post-Solomonic court circles,
> herself of Davidic blood, who began writing her great work in the later
> years of Solomon, in close rapport and exchanging influences with her good
> friend the Court Historian, who wrote most of what we now call 2 Samuel.
>
> It is only one theory that might now be more widely accepted or might now
> be debunked.
>
> I think Roger or another person mentioned C-language and K and the other
> considerations you outline—Ken was just being enigmatic and playful and he
> loved to layer meanings, multiple entendres—as one can see from J language.
>
> Donna Y
> dy...@sympatico.ca
>
>
> > On May 31, 2018, at 6:09 PM, PR PackRat  wrote:
> >
> > This is way off-topic--so please forgive me--but I wanted to clarify
> > some previous messages:
> >
> > On 5/31/18, Donna Y  wrote:
> >> Once I asked Ken about the name of J language and he referred me to the
> Book
> >> of J for some clues:
> >
> > Somewhere in the J literature Roger Hui relates how he named it after
> > the letter "J", which was conveniently under the right index finger
> > when typing.
> >
> > As you know, single letter language names were the rage decades ago.
> > (J's "sibling" was "K", developed by Arthur Whitney and subsequently
> > revised as "Q".  Whitney had also previously developed the "A" portion
> > of the "A+" language.)  However, that single-letter feature makes
> > these languages nearly impossible to find in some search engines,
> > which usually require at least 3 characters in a search term.  That's
> > why some people promote using "Jay" as a secondary index term, as in
> > "Jay language", or appending the two, as in "jlanguage", or being sure
> > to include more terms than merely "J", such as "J programming
> > language".  This all depends, of course, on the search engine in a
> > given application, such as email or Google Search.
> >
> >>> Biblical scholarship has, by long and minute labor, and with continuing
> >>> controversy, established that these books are a redaction of at least
> four
> >>> separate documents (some say more). One of these, usually regarded as
> the
> >>> earliest, was given the label J,
> >>
> >>> Nobody knows who J, as the author of J has come to be called for short,
> >>> was, and many believe there were several J's;
> >>
> >> He thought I’d be amused to know that J is thought to be a woman.
> >
> > I have a theological background, and the documents are not named after
> > any specific humans.  Rather, the names are generic labels, based on
> > the portions of the Torah hypothetically contributed by the four main
> > "editors": J is the Yahwist (uses the name Yahweh for God--J is
> > pronounced like Y in German, which is where this theory was first
> > promulgated), E is the Elohist (uses the name Elohim for God), D is
> > the Deuteronomist (essentially the book of Deuteronomy), and P is the
> > Priestly editor (essentially the book of Leviticus, with all the
> > priestly laws).  This is the basis of what is called the "JEDP
> > hypothesis" or the "documentary hypothesis" of the Torah (or
> > Pentateuch).
> >
> > FWIW.
> >
> > Harvey
> > --
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] J, APL, or calendars?

[Björn Helgason]

In rome people were very scared the years -4, -3, -2 and -1 what would
happen year 0

On Wed, 30 May 2018 22:03 Raul Miller,  wrote:

> Last I heard, 1970 was part of the twentieth century - I have never
> heard it referred to as the tenths century?
>
>
> Perhaps also worth reviewing the definitions here:
>
> Century:
>
> 1. a period of one hundred years.
> "a century ago most people walked to work"
>
> 2. a company in the ancient Roman army, originally of one hundred men.
>
>
> Month:
>
> 1. each of the twelve named periods into which a year is divided.
> "the first six months of 1992"
>
> 2. a period of time between the same dates in successive calendar months.
> "the president's rule was extended for six more months from March 3"
>
> 3. a period of 28 days or four weeks.
> "the fourth month of pregnancy"
>
>
> I think it's important, when dealing with people to realize that human
> languages associate many concrete concepts with individual words.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Raul
>
>
> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 5:57 PM, 'Bo Jacoby' via Chat
>  wrote:
> > Centuries within millenia have periodically repeating names: first
> century . . tenths century. They describe time intervals in exactly the
> same way. Today is: 3. millenium, 1. century, 2. decennium, 8. year, 5.
> month, 30. day.
> >
> > Den 23:43 onsdag den 30. maj 2018 skrev Raul Miller <
> rauldmil...@gmail.com>:
> >
> >
> >  And months are not centuries.
> >
> > Nor do centuries have periodically repeating names.
> >
> > They are different abstractions. Though both can be used to describe
> > time, they do not describe it in the same way.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > --
> > Raul
> >
> > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 5:38 PM, 'Bo Jacoby' via Chat
> >  wrote:
> >> The months of the year have names. Not any period of 28, 29, 30 or 31
> days is a month. The years and centuries are numbered. 1956..2055 does not
> have a century number and is not a century.
> >>Den 21:41 onsdag den 30. maj 2018 skrev Raul Miller <
> rauldmil...@gmail.com>:
> >>
> >>
> >>  The years 1956..2055 are indeed a century.
> >>
> >> They are not, however, a Gregorian century. Nor, a Julian century.
> >>
> >> I trust you can see the distinctions.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Raul
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 3:36 PM, 'Bo Jacoby' via Chat
> >>  wrote:
> >>> "tjugohundratalen" means the years 2000 . . 2099. This period is not a
> century, even if it consists of 100 consecutive years. The years 1956 . .
> 2055 is not a century either. The years 1 . . 100 is the 1. century. The
> years 2001 . . 2100 is the 21. century.
> >>>
> >>>Den 21:25 onsdag den 30. maj 2018 skrev 'Bo Jacoby' via Chat <
> c...@jsoftware.com>:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  "2018 is the ninth year of the second decade etc"? No!The first
> decade consist of the years 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10.  The 202. decade consist
> of the years 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020.
> >>> So 2018 is the 8. year of the 202. decade, which is the 2. decade of
> the 21 century, which is the 1. century of the 3. millenium.
> >>>
> >>>Den 19:30 onsdag den 30. maj 2018 skrev Don Guinn <
> dongu...@gmail.com>:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  Sure seems Einstein was correct. According to his special theory of
> >>> relativity, time varies depending on one's speed and location. There
> seems
> >>> to be no agreement on time in this thread.
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 10:25 AM, Björn Helgason 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> In Sweden they say 2018 as tjugohundraarton or tjugoarton
> >>>> We are now in tjugohundratalen.
> >>>> You can say it as twentyhundredeighteen or twentyeighteen.
> >>>> We are now in the twentyhundreds or the twentyhundrednumbers.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, 30 May 2018 16:03 R.E. Boss,  wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> > > From: Chat  On Behalf Of 'Bo
> >>>> Jacoby'
> >>>> > > via Chat
> >>>> > > Sent: dinsdag 29 mei 2018 08:14
> >>>> >
> >>>> > > Do we agree that this year, AD 2018, is the eighth year of the of
> the
> >>>> > > second decade of the first century of the third millenium? Or do
> you
> >

Re: [Jchat] J, APL, or calendars?

[Björn Helgason]

In Sweden they say 2018 as tjugohundraarton or tjugoarton
We are now in tjugohundratalen.
You can say it as twentyhundredeighteen or twentyeighteen.
We are now in the twentyhundreds or the twentyhundrednumbers.

On Wed, 30 May 2018 16:03 R.E. Boss,  wrote:

> > From: Chat  On Behalf Of 'Bo Jacoby'
> > via Chat
> > Sent: dinsdag 29 mei 2018 08:14
>
> > Do we agree that this year, AD 2018, is the eighth year of the of the
> > second decade of the first century of the third millenium? Or do you
> > consider it to be the seventh year of the first decade of the zeroth
> > century of the second millenium? The time passed until year 2018 are 2
> > millenia, 0 centuries, 1 decade and 7 years, but those are not ordinal
> numbers.
>
>
> No, I don't.
> 2018 is the ninth year of the second decade etc., since the second decade
> started at the beginning of 2010, as the first decade, the first century
> and the third millennium started at 2000 1 1 0 0 0.000.
> Which notation is remarkable, since we indicate the first month and the
> first day by 1, all other time intervals we start with 0.
> But Miller explained that in
> http://jsoftware.com/pipermail/chat/2018-May/007794.html
>
> R.E. Boss
>
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] How close is J to APL?

[Björn Helgason]

"Back on my soap box, the in things in computing now are GUI and web. Actual
problem solving makes up a very small part of programming now"

Do you use JHS?
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

[Jchat] kotlin

[Björn Helgason]

I wonder if kotlin is interesting to J or JHS.
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] Where is J going ?

[Björn Helgason]

asatru.is

lots of powerful operators with well defined roles and rules.

never tells you what to do or not to do.

only tells you what happens if you do.

On 10 Mar 2018 20:08, "Ian Clark"  wrote:

If all programming language communities are religions, then might J be
classified as a heresy?

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 8:01 PM, Jo van Schalkwyk 
wrote:

> Heh. All programming language communities are indistinguishable from
> religions. It's a human thing. My 2c, Jo.
>
> On 9 March 2018 at 08:40, R.E. Boss  wrote:
>
> > Contrary to what most people think, J is not a programming language, J
is
> > a religion, at least it shares a remarkable number of characteristics
> with
> > a religion (and if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ...).
> > Ken Iverson is called The Almighty and Roger Hui his Archangel (
> > http://www.jsoftware.com/pipermail/general/2001-July/007034.html), and
> > like real believers it does not matter that the first passed away and
the
> > second has changed jobs with a collegial religion. Perhaps together with
> > the current Iverson, they can be better considered as the Father, the
> Holy
> > Spirit and the Son. And since we have the Deity defined, we need a Pope,
> > and who better than Henry Rich could play that role? He even
> > single-handedly extended and optimised the religion, not to mention the
> > Dissect he created, which teaches you to recognize your sins. Recently,
> the
> > Pope created NuVoc, a children's bible, or, more modern, the bible for
> > dummies.
> > The Dictionary of course is our original Bible, Koran if you want, and
> the
> > Vocabulary our catechism, actually only accessible for priests. However,
> we
> > don't have priests in our community. We do have, c.f.
> > https://simplifyconnections.appspot.com/?place=J , novices, advBegs,
> > competents, proficients, experts and others, which are probably the
> > heathens. Problem is that we are very tolerant within our community and
> you
> > may give yourself any title you think is appropriate. Perhaps the Pope
> > should give this issue some attention.
> >
> > Contrary to most religions, we don’t preach much, since we only accept
> new
> > members via a rather steep learning curve. We even don't do much to help
> > the newbies or even stimulate them to climb that mountain. So the old
> > religious saying "many are called, but few are chosen" is applied here
> as "
> > many are challenged, but few succeed".
> > But as soon as you advance the learning curve more than halfway, you
> > experience heaven.
> > However, what most new converts do then (not uncommon in religions), is
> > try to convert their surroundings to their new religion, unfortunately
> > mostly in vain. And if they discover that, they try to alter J, which
> > appears to be even harder.
> > Some 'fork' religions have been grown, even more obscure than J, but
> above
> > all, they lack the Trinity J has, which is quite a drawback for a new
> faith.
> > So here you are, new member of a cult, perhaps even a sect, what now?
> > Since I am only a proficient, happy member of this community, I'm afraid
> I
> > cannot help you.
> >
> >
> > R.E Boss
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Chat  On Behalf Of james
> > > faure
> > > Sent: donderdag 1 maart 2018 03:40
> > > To: c...@jsoftware.com
> > > Subject: [Jchat] Where is J going ?
> > >
> > > Andrew Dabrowski is right. If J continues to steer it's current
course,
> > it will be
> > > quickly forgotten. Roger Hui himself seems to have abandonned J
> (correct
> > > me if I am mistaken), in favor of Dyalog APL. I can vouch from first
> hand
> > > experience how incredibly difficult it is to interest my friends in J
> > and in fact
> > > have yet to get a single other person from Epitech
> > > http://international.epitech.eu/ to learn J, even though I believe
> they
> > are
> > > convinced of it's power.
> > >
> > > Epitech International
> > > international.epitech.eu
> > > Dear International Students, We will be happy to welcome you to
Epitech
> > > and hope you will enjoy this unique learning experience! Epitech has
> > > solidified its reputation ...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Since I seem to be by far the youngest person with a serious interest
> in
> > J, I
> > > will try to explain my understanding of the current situation, in the
> > hope that
> > > it may be useful to jsoftware. I also must say that between the time
> > that I
> > > heard of J and commited to learning it, I was extremely unsure about
> > > whether the language would have a future and whether it would be
> suitable
> > > to do everything. Ultimately, Henry Rich's success story is the reason
> I
> > am
> > > here, without it I would probably still be wondering to myself from
> time
> > to
> > > time about J, but without the conviction that it is suitable, or worth
> > learning.
> > > 

Re: [Jchat] Favorite blog shows global sea level rise per decade isoclines.

[Björn Helgason]

it has never been considerated a good idea to build on sand.

On 7 Mar 2018 19:17, "David Lambert"  wrote:

> https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/weaker-gulf-stream-means-t
> rouble-coastal-new-england
>
> This is the cat6 wunderblog started by Jeff Masters of wunderground,
> bought by weather.com, bought by IBM.
>
> Soon they'll be coding in APL & j!?
>
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

[Jchat] remix mini

[Björn Helgason]

I saw this just now:

http://www.jide.com/mini

Sounds interesting.

I guess J will run on it.
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] the language of the future for the programming of the past

[Björn Helgason]

In general it is a good practice to let a filter sort the post to different
boxes

On 10 Jan 2018 21:24, "Antony McCardell" <t...@antonymccardell.com> wrote:

> Hi Chris
>
> I need urgently to unsubscribe to J chat. Currently I am unable to
> participate and my mailbox is becoming overloaded with J chat messages. I
> cannot see an "unsubscribe" button anyway. Can you please point me in the
> right direction?
>
> Thanks
>
> Tony
>
>
> On 11/01/2018 12:21 AM, chris burke wrote:
>
>> After the fom editor was dropped we have been struggling.
>>>
>> The old form editor was needed because in the old days, there was no
>> layout
>> manager in the UI so controls had to be given an exact position on a form.
>> Fine-tuning this manually would have been tedious. However, there were
>> still problems, for example the layout that worked fine on one resolution
>> or OS may not have worked on another. I remember spending a great deal of
>> time on manually fixing up form editor output so forms worked properly
>> everywhere.
>>
>> However, Qt has a nice layout manager. Control positioning is easy and
>> just
>> works in all platforms.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 11:29 PM, Ric Sherlock <tikk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I can understand the appeal of the WYSIWYG aspect of the old form editor,
>>> but I much prefer the current system for designing and building forms. I
>>> spend much less time aligning controls perfectly and the form resizing
>>> behaviour is much better.
>>>
>>> As for the cross-platform experience, there is no contest - the current
>>> WD
>>> implementation is far superior in terms of functionality, reliability and
>>> appearance.
>>>
>>> I'm sure that the state of flux of GUI development from J6.02 to J8
>>> didn't
>>> help foster a plethora of GUI apps, but I think the paucity of GUI apps
>>> is
>>> primarily due to the focus of the majority of users than the facilities
>>> of
>>> the language.
>>>
>>> The GUI's I've developed are far from complex, but I've found them
>>> relatively easy and satisfying to build, and compare favourably with
>>> those
>>> of most other languages for GUI-based tasks on Rosetta code.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 6:17 PM, Björn Helgason <gos...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> J used to be great at making guis and had the best form editor on the
>>>> market.
>>>> After the fom editor was dropped we have been struggling.
>>>> I would love to have easier ways to create guis.
>>>>
>>>> On 9 Jan 2018 18:57, "Dabrowski, Andrew John" <dabro...@indiana.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So it seems that J is not a self-contained language for making GUIs: you
>>>> also need to know either html and js or qt.  Clojure has the significant
>>>> advantage that the GUI code is in idiomatic Clojure.
>>>>
>>>> All I said was that J isn't a _good_ language for creating GUIs when
>>>> compared with Clojure, Python, or Java for example.  I would have
>>>> thought
>>>> that would be uncontroversial: in fact there are very few examples of
>>>>
>>> GUIs
>>>
>>>> in the repo, and none are elaborate.  Evidently no one in the J
>>>> community
>>>> places a very high value on GUIs.
>>>>
>>>> Which is fine, not every language needs to be great at facilitating the
>>>> construction of GUIs, there's a place for scripting languages.  I'm
>>>> happy
>>>> to grant J the distinction of being a superb calculation and scripting
>>>> language, but for GUIs it happens to be mediocre.
>>>>
>>>> On 01/09/2018 03:02 AM, Björn Helgason wrote:
>>>>
>>>> JHS is using HTML as a front end.
>>>> There are numerous ways of interacting with HTML tools.
>>>> You can see examples and demos doing gui/graphics etc and mixing with
>>>> javascripts.
>>>> It may be difficult to distinguish between what is J/Javascript.
>>>>
>>>> On 8 Jan 2018 22:13, "Dabrowski, Andrew John" <dabro...@indiana.edu
>>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>> dabro...@indiana.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Af

Re: [Jchat] the language of the future for the programming of the past

[Björn Helgason]

J used to be great at making guis and had the best form editor on the
market.
After the fom editor was dropped we have been struggling.
I would love to have easier ways to create guis.

On 9 Jan 2018 18:57, "Dabrowski, Andrew John" <dabro...@indiana.edu> wrote:

So it seems that J is not a self-contained language for making GUIs: you
also need to know either html and js or qt.  Clojure has the significant
advantage that the GUI code is in idiomatic Clojure.

All I said was that J isn't a _good_ language for creating GUIs when
compared with Clojure, Python, or Java for example.  I would have thought
that would be uncontroversial: in fact there are very few examples of GUIs
in the repo, and none are elaborate.  Evidently no one in the J community
places a very high value on GUIs.

Which is fine, not every language needs to be great at facilitating the
construction of GUIs, there's a place for scripting languages.  I'm happy
to grant J the distinction of being a superb calculation and scripting
language, but for GUIs it happens to be mediocre.

On 01/09/2018 03:02 AM, Björn Helgason wrote:

JHS is using HTML as a front end.
There are numerous ways of interacting with HTML tools.
You can see examples and demos doing gui/graphics etc and mixing with
javascripts.
It may be difficult to distinguish between what is J/Javascript.

On 8 Jan 2018 22:13, "Dabrowski, Andrew John" <dabro...@indiana.edu> wrote:



After reading "Algebra as Language" and "Computers and Mathematical
Notation", I'm starting to see J the perfect language for numerical
computation.  But for general purpose programming I can see Dijkstra's
point.

When APL was designed computers were seen largely as calculating
machines.  But by the 1970s GUIs were starting to be developed, and
computers were being applied in areas where tensors were no longer adequate
as the sole data structure.  One thing general purpose programming
languages must have is extensibility, and that J lacks.

I'm trying to work out what the appropriate use cases are for J, and I
think it's calculating with tensors.  If you need more than tensors, or if
you need more than calculation (e.g. GUIs), J is not a good choice.
--
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--
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Re: [Jchat] the language of the future for the programming of the past

[Björn Helgason]

JHS is using HTML as a front end.
There are numerous ways of interacting with HTML tools.
You can see examples and demos doing gui/graphics etc and mixing with
javascripts.
It may be difficult to distinguish between what is J/Javascript.

On 8 Jan 2018 22:13, "Dabrowski, Andrew John"  wrote:

> After reading "Algebra as Language" and "Computers and Mathematical
> Notation", I'm starting to see J the perfect language for numerical
> computation.  But for general purpose programming I can see Dijkstra's
> point.
>
> When APL was designed computers were seen largely as calculating
> machines.  But by the 1970s GUIs were starting to be developed, and
> computers were being applied in areas where tensors were no longer adequate
> as the sole data structure.  One thing general purpose programming
> languages must have is extensibility, and that J lacks.
>
> I'm trying to work out what the appropriate use cases are for J, and I
> think it's calculating with tensors.  If you need more than tensors, or if
> you need more than calculation (e.g. GUIs), J is not a good choice.
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

[Jchat] complexity

[Björn Helgason]

It looks like life is not getting any easier.
Installing J806 is more complex than ever.


linux

   32  -

64  -
  avs -


mac


  64
  dmg -
  zip   -

 dmg avs -
  zip avs -

rasp

 32  -

  64 -

win

   32
  exe -
  zip  -

   64

   exe -
   zip  -

   exe avs -
   zip  avs -

and   32+64 -


within J you have

   Qt

Hs

Con


addons like socket needs new stuff I dont remember exactly qmx or something
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

[Jchat] data

[Björn Helgason]

 I have heard that in the financal community there is a best selling
utility that can convert data between different encryptions.

As I understand then many small banks and financial institutions are
growing having much lower cost than the big banks.

In order for exchange of data there is a need to translate different forms
of encodings.

I have over the years seen and needed to conver many strange forms.
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

[Jchat] programming with android

[Björn Helgason]

I have not been keen on doing long scripts with the android.
It is much easier to be able to have windows side by side and send lines
between.
I needed to do some programming and had no other machine.
I have been putting it off and was going to wait until I had another
machine.
Then I decided to give it a go.
I was positively surprised how easy it is to copy lines on the android and
do the work.
Looking up utils and help worked fine.
So now the work is done and finished.
The screen is small and the keyboard even smaller but I can be were I want.
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] Help!

[Björn Helgason]

([: >./ [: +. ] ^ 0j1 - ]) 0j_10
3.13112e7


On 19 Apr 2017 02:54, "Richard Donovan"  wrote:

> Can anyone show me how to eliminate having to define z and use it later is
> this code snippet? I'm playing code golf and think I can get J to number 1
> if I could lose the extra bytes!
>
>
> TIA
>
>
>  >./+.z^0j1-z=: 0j_10
> 3.13112e7
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] GPU APL

[Björn Helgason]

Is compiling APL still an issue?

Would compiling APL make a difference in selling more?


On 6 Mar 2017 11:05,  wrote:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13797797

interesting ideas about compiler, GPU, parallel, APL & J

--
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--
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[Jchat] typescript

[Björn Helgason]

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/typescript/2016/12/07/announcing-typescript-2-1/
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

[Jchat] user groups

[Björn Helgason]

For people interested in JHS it can be of interest to look for user groups
for javascript, html, css.
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] html5

[Björn Helgason]

This udemi course is good in many ways.
Excellent to fall asleep.
The videos are very long and html needs a lot of text.
Udemy keeps the screen active even during pause so it drinks battery.
Even so it explains everything very well.
I do not plan to write much but understanding html I steal here and there
is good.
The concepts are well explained and I can see a lot of use for this.
The new things that come with html5 are of particular interest.
I have been a great fan of plots and forms and J used to be very good at it.
I have not been very happy needing to learn new ways of doing forms and
plots but after listening to the course a little bit and looking a bit of
JHS interacting with this I am beginning to see the benefits.
There is so much more to be fiddled with in html5 and a lot of tools to
connect to.
In graphics and such there are solutions to a lot of things I have been
wanting to do with the old tools.
There are obviously hell of a lot of more people using and working on html5.
Still the long courses and the huge amount of data needed to get things
going is a bit much so I am not looking forward needing to look/listen
through them many times.
But as a result there is so much you can do.
My needs are more needs for understanding and then copy/paste.
Being long is not really boring.
I guess what is needed is a plan to listen on a regular bases a bit at a
time and try not to fall asleep too soon.

On 9 Sep 2016 13:54, "Björn Helgason" <gos...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have finally found out how to do the udemy html5 course offline.
> It is dead easy once you know how to.
> It really explains the concepts in easy steps.
> A man talking in the background slowly explaining while typing and showing
> a browser and notepad++ at the same time.
> I have been revisting JHS too and. there is so much there to use and
> combine.
> I guess many people could benefit from learning how to combine J stuff
> with html5.
> Once you start knowing a little bit you realize you can add just a little
> something and then some more.
> The demos are easy and great and combine them with labs you will be amazed
> at what you can do.
> Some people may not realize the potential of learning to use locales in
> the locales lab and see how you can take the data and manipulate it a bit
> and then show it in the browser.
> I guess there is a barrier to learn how to combine the browser with J.
> Once you do realize you will be hooked.
> I have dibbled into html over the years but getting the basics explained
> is making a huge difference for me.
> Some things I may have wondered about were a lot easier to understand than
> I imagined.
> I guess html5 is a lot more than what I realized and also easier than I
> thought.
> Combine it what I already know about J and JHS is really powerful and I am
> only just starting I feel after all these years.
> Good fun and good times ahead!
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

[Jchat] html5

[Björn Helgason]

I have finally found out how to do the udemy html5 course offline.
It is dead easy once you know how to.
It really explains the concepts in easy steps.
A man talking in the background slowly explaining while typing and showing
a browser and notepad++ at the same time.
I have been revisting JHS too and. there is so much there to use and
combine.
I guess many people could benefit from learning how to combine J stuff with
html5.
Once you start knowing a little bit you realize you can add just a little
something and then some more.
The demos are easy and great and combine them with labs you will be amazed
at what you can do.
Some people may not realize the potential of learning to use locales in the
locales lab and see how you can take the data and manipulate it a bit and
then show it in the browser.
I guess there is a barrier to learn how to combine the browser with J.
Once you do realize you will be hooked.
I have dibbled into html over the years but getting the basics explained is
making a huge difference for me.
Some things I may have wondered about were a lot easier to understand than
I imagined.
I guess html5 is a lot more than what I realized and also easier than I
thought.
Combine it what I already know about J and JHS is really powerful and I am
only just starting I feel after all these years.
Good fun and good times ahead!
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] The Top Programming Languages 2016

[Björn Helgason]

no other apl mentioned there
only enterprise and not web

On 27 Jul 2016 15:09, "Kenneth Lettow"  wrote:

> J makes the cut (#44).
>
>
> http://spectrum.ieee.org/static/interactive-the-top-programming-languages-2016
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

[Jchat] html5

[Björn Helgason]

I am taking steps learning more html5 in order to better understand JHS

I enrolled in udemi for free.

Hope it is good

I am a slow learner.

Begin with a course for beginners for html5.
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] missed opportunities

[Björn Helgason]

I have in the past done some.
Have been traveling a lot and only carried a small  android with me.
Not very easy to experiment with jhs on it.
I know it is possible and in some cases I know how.
Would be nice if others tried it some.
I have ideas what I would like to see.
I think it important to get a lot of different simple demos.
I am possibly not the best for it.
On 2 Nov 2015 13:34, "Raul Miller" <rauldmil...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 4:43 AM, Björn Helgason <gos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > What is missing are more and better demos how to use this.
> > How to create forms.
> > How to interact between those two.
> > It is surely doable.
>
> I think you should put some effort into showing how these sorts of
> demos should be written.
>
> Write one. Or, some. Then get some feedback and iterate.
>
> That said, different people reasonably have different ideas of
> "better".  So be aware of that when listening to critical responses
> and suggestions.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Raul
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

[Jchat] missed opportunities

[Björn Helgason]

We have a great programming language.
It has a potential to do a lot.
There is a learning barrier.
Very many potential users give up.
Using J and HTML looks great.
What is missing are more and better demos how to use this.
How to create forms.
How to interact between those two.
It is surely doable.

Many others are letting kids create HTML forms to do simple things.
There are also tools to do simple apps on tablets.

A long time ago APL used to be the best.
It missed out to the PC.
It also missed out to EXCEL.

Maybe it is possible to let J and HTML become easy and simple to use?

Maybe it is possible to let J be easy and simple creating apps on tablets?

I sometimes feel like Charlie Brown hoping for the most simple things.
--
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Re: [Jchat] Wher is my x?

[Björn Helgason]

it was supposed to be a joke
On 28 Oct 2015 11:32, "Joe Bogner" <joebog...@gmail.com> wrote:

> names calls nl which excludes x from the result
>
> You can see x if you type (4!:1) 0
>
> See the definition of nl by typing nl
>
>nl
> 3 : 0
> '' nl y
> :
> if. 0 e. #y do. y=. 0 1 2 3 end.
>
> if. 1 4 8 e.~ 3!:0 y do.
>   nms=. (4!:1 y) -. ;: 'x y x. y.'
> else.
>   nms=. cutopen_z_ y
> end.
>
> if. 0 e. #nms do. return. end.
>
> if. #t=. x -. ' ' do.
>   'n s'=. '~*' e. t
>   t=. t -. '~*'
>   b=. t &> nms
>   if. s do. b=. +./"1 b
>   else. b=. {."1 b end.
>   nms=. nms #~ n ~: b
> end.
> )
>
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 7:24 AM, Björn Helgason <gos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >   x=.10
> >
> >names''
> >
> > NB. where is my x??
> >
> >'x'names''
> >
> > I don't know your x
> > don't ask me y
> > --
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

[Jchat] Wher is my x?

[Björn Helgason]

  x=.10

   names''

NB. where is my x??

   'x'names''

I don't know your x
don't ask me y
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] What type?

[Björn Helgason]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_file_signatures
On 6 Oct 2015 13:50, "Michael Dykman" <mdyk...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If you are on linux, the 'file' utility will do it.
>
> probe file types recursively from the current directory:
> $ find . -exec file {} +
>
> 'file' ignores extensions, probing the first few bytes for signatures
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2015, 9:45 AM Björn Helgason <gos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Is there a utility that can scan through files and tell if they are
> films,
> > music etc?
> > I know extensions are indications of what they are.
> > I am thinking about if it is possible to get a util that can read parts
> or
> > whole files and decide what they are.
> > --
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> >
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

[Jchat] What type?

[Björn Helgason]

Is there a utility that can scan through files and tell if they are films,
music etc?
I know extensions are indications of what they are.
I am thinking about if it is possible to get a util that can read parts or
whole files and decide what they are.
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] What type?

[Björn Helgason]

thx

is it possible to find those signatures on the net?
On 6 Oct 2015 13:50, "Michael Dykman" <mdyk...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If you are on linux, the 'file' utility will do it.
>
> probe file types recursively from the current directory:
> $ find . -exec file {} +
>
> 'file' ignores extensions, probing the first few bytes for signatures
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2015, 9:45 AM Björn Helgason <gos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Is there a utility that can scan through files and tell if they are
> films,
> > music etc?
> > I know extensions are indications of what they are.
> > I am thinking about if it is possible to get a util that can read parts
> or
> > whole files and decide what they are.
> > --
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> >
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] What type?

[Björn Helgason]

read this better when I get back home.
On 6 Oct 2015 15:03, "Dan Bron"  wrote:

> Bjorn asked:
> > I am thinking about if it is possible to get a util that
> > can read parts or whole files and decide what they are.
>
> Raul wrote:
> > If you are on linux, the 'file' utility will do it.
>
> Yes, and if you are not on Linux (or BSD, OS X, etc), you can still get
> your hands on the “magic files”, which are plain-text files describing the
> pattern which is used to determine a file’s type*. Just Google for them.
>
> For example, on my Mac, there is a file /usr/share/file/magic/dyadic which
> identifies Dyalog APL workspaces and component files (I was fairly
> surprised to find this installed by default on OSX!).
>
>
> #--
> # $File: dyadic,v 1.4 2009/09/19 16:28:09 christos Exp $
> # Dyadic: file(1) magic for Dyalog APL.
> #
> 0   byte0xaa
> >1  byte<4  Dyalog APL
> >>1 byte0x00incomplete workspace
> >>1 byte0x01component file
> >>1 byte0x02external variable
> >>1 byte0x03workspace
> >>2 bytex   version %d
> >>3 bytex   .%d
>
> This says: if the first byte of a file is 170 (i.e. 0xAA), and the 2nd
> byte of the file is less than 4, then you’ve got a Dyalog APL object. If
> that pattern doesn’t match, “file” will know it’s got something other than
> a Dyalog APL object, so it will move on and try out the next magic file
> pattern.
>
> If that pattern does match, however, the following lines help identify the
> kind of Dyalog APL object more specifically.
>
> If the 2nd byte (which must be less than 4) is zero, then it’s an
> “incomplete workspace”; if one, then a “component file”, if two, then an
> “external variable”; if three, then a (not-incomplete) “workspace”.
>
> Again, if the initial test about (firstByte=170) *. (secondByte<4)
> matched, and we know we’re dealing with a Dyalog APL object, then the 3rd
> and 4th bytes will give the major and minor versions of the interpreter
> which created it, respectively.
>
> Bjorn wrote:
> > I know extensions are indications of what they are.
>
> Worth pointing out, pragmatically speaking, if a file’s type is not
> self-evident on your OS, or file extensions being insufficient or
> misleading clues often enough that you need to use “file” with some
> frequency, it might be more productive to identify the root cause of that
> issue, rather than re-implementing the utility.
>
> I suppose one use case for “file” is increasing one’s confidence that a
> file one downloaded from a not-perfectly-trustworthy source is indeed what
> it advertises itself to be…
>
>
> -Dan
>
> * Please note these “magic file tests” are applied at a specific point in
> the utility’s workflow, after some preliminary tests at a higher level.
>
> So the files are useful, but not completely sufficient. If you can’t use
> “file” directly, and want to reimplement it, you’ll have to reimplement
> some of these preliminary tests as well.
>
> A good place to start is the manpage for file, followed by its source code
> (if you really want to get into it).
>
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] [Jgeneral] jqt, smoutput and wd'msgs'

[Björn Helgason]

I created an application ca 20 years ago.
J did all the controling of all processes.
Sending and receiving data from different sources.
Some of the information came over e-mail.
What I did was writing a short visual basic program which took the e-mail
and wrote it to a file.
Another visual basic program was started once in a while and it picked up a
file written by J and sent it off according to instructions.
I was among  receiving info about prices of currencies by e-mail.as well as
something else.
Last I heard it was still running.
Never failed.
I remember seing something about e-mail handling in J directly.
I never upgraded my app to it.
It was possibly written by Henry Rich.
I meant to look at it better than my initial glance but never got around to
it.
I did some socket applications long time ago directly in J.
It worked great but those were special apps and no e-mail involved.
Played with JHS a bit and meant to learn it better and get it to do e-mail
as well as talking to websites.
I am not very fluent in it and need to spend more time on it.
The visual basic parts doing e-mail was brilliant and very easy to do.
Even for me.
This was basically only thing I ever did anything with visual basic.
 On 15 Jun 2015 15:31, Brian Schott schott.br...@gmail.com wrote:

 Bjørn,

 [moved from general forum]

 Can you say more about receiving emails and processing them.
 In particular, I often wish I could edit emails to store them in an edited
 format, but gmail does not seem to enable this. Your comment makes me
 wonder if you are aware of some app or feature that might help.

 Thanks,

 On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 6:51 PM, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com wrote:

  I sometimes make a combined output which can take outside instruction to
  direct info to screen, log or file.
 
  Great for debug purposes and works great for long running processes.
 
  Especially when the processes need to wait for different kind of inputs.
 
  I loved receiving e-mails and process them.
 
  --
 (B=)
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] Hamlet's number

[Björn Helgason]

bb  +. -. bb =. ?

bb +: bb =: ?
On 3 May 2015 19:04, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com wrote:

 2b  +. -. 2b

 On 3 May 2015 11:43, Brian Schott schott.br...@gmail.com wrote:

2b2kewl
 333


 On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 3:44 AM, Raul Miller rauldmil...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 
  Ok, maybe you had to be there...
 
 

 --
 (B=)
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm


--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] Hamlet's number

[Björn Helgason]

that is the question
On 5 May 2015 08:05, Raul Miller rauldmil...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hmm...

 I guess names are replaced by their definitions when they get assigned.

 --
 Raul

 On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 3:53 AM, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com wrote:
  bb  +. -. bb =. ?
 
  bb +: bb =: ?
  On 3 May 2015 19:04, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  2b  +. -. 2b
 
  On 3 May 2015 11:43, Brian Schott schott.br...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 2b2kewl
  333
 
 
  On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 3:44 AM, Raul Miller rauldmil...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  
   Ok, maybe you had to be there...
  
  
 
  --
  (B=)
  --
  For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
 
 
  --
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 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] Turtle Graphics

[Björn Helgason]

I had missed the help/txt file with examples.

It takes some time to figure out what to type in the frame and what in
terminal and also be in the tgsj locale.

This is quite interesting.

Explains a lot of problems I was having.

I see the examples from the lab may very possibly be redone with this info.

I only now discovered this info and have not had time to try it out yet but
it looks good.
 On 6 Dec 2014 15:12, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com wrote:

 I have been playing with the turtles a bit.

 Getting ideas what to try from the old lab.

 It is very interesting to try this out and I am beginning to understand it
 some.

 Some ideas and examples would be good.

 Single commands seem to work but combining them is not as easy as the old
 lab did.

--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] Turtle Graphics

[Björn Helgason]

A strange thing occurred.

I copied the script to run pendulum.

Saved it using qt but could not load it in jhs nor open it.

Then I copied it into empty open file in jhs and saved it.

Now the qt editor claimed the file had changed on disk.

After this strange thing I can load the file in jhs and run main as
instructed.

Looks great!
 On 1 Dec 2014 14:51, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com wrote:

 I downloaded the tgsjhs files and tested it briely.

 This looks amazing.

 I have to study it a bit.

 I did find a lab even if it does not show up in the selection.

 Looks like it needs some updating but there may be something to learn from.
  On 28 Nov 2014 07:40, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thanks for the information.

 I will be looking at this as soon as I can.

 Let you know how it goes.

 It may take a few days.

 The wiki looks interesting/promising/good.
 On 27 Nov 2014 17:07, Brian Schott schott.br...@gmail.com wrote:

 Let me know if you have any questions. And thanks for asking

 http://www.jsoftware.com/pipermail/programming/2014-October/039802.html

 ---
 (B=)

  On Nov 27, 2014, at 10:10 AM, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  I remember seeing something about tgsjhs and am interested in trying
 it out.
 
  Where/how do I find and use it?
 
  Is there a lab/demo available?
  --
  For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm


--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

[Jchat] Turtle Graphics

[Björn Helgason]

I remember seeing something about tgsjhs and am interested in trying it out.

Where/how do I find and use it?

Is there a lab/demo available?
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] Turtle Graphics

[Björn Helgason]

Thanks for the information.

I will be looking at this as soon as I can.

Let you know how it goes.

It may take a few days.

The wiki looks interesting/promising/good.
On 27 Nov 2014 17:07, Brian Schott schott.br...@gmail.com wrote:

 Let me know if you have any questions. And thanks for asking

 http://www.jsoftware.com/pipermail/programming/2014-October/039802.html

 ---
 (B=)

  On Nov 27, 2014, at 10:10 AM, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  I remember seeing something about tgsjhs and am interested in trying it
 out.
 
  Where/how do I find and use it?
 
  Is there a lab/demo available?
  --
  For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] fif

[Björn Helgason]

Thanks for your interest.

None of these give the screen definitions in ijs for use in JQT.

I guess J is not used for the fif dialog in jqt like it is in jhs.

That does not build up too much confidence in it.

I was intending to learn from it creating forms/screens for jqt.

I am going more into JHS again when I have the time.

It is not productive to go back and forth trying to use qt or html when I
have such little time to spend on it.

They are vastly different.

__---_
https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!forum/havaogskulamal
On 25 Sep 2014 12:55, Raul Miller rauldmil...@gmail.com wrote:

 Here are the qt files which contain the string Search.

 j64-803/addons/ide/qt/keys.ijs
 j64-803/bin/jqt.dll
 j64-803/bin/Qt5Core.dll
 j64-803/bin/Qt5Gui.dll
 j64-803/bin/Qt5Multimedia.dll
 j64-803/bin/Qt5WebKit.dll
 j64-803/bin/Qt5Widgets.dll
 j64-803/bin/QtQuick/Controls/plugins.qmltypes
 j64-803/bin/QtQuick/Controls/qtquickcontrolsplugin.dll
 j64-803/bin/QtQuick/Controls/RadioButton.qml
 j64-803/bin/QtQuick/Controls/StackView.qml
 j64-803/bin/QtQuick.2/plugins.qmltypes

 Here are the directories which have 'Qt' in their name:

 j64-803/addons/ide/qt
 j64-803/bin/Qt
 j64-803/bin/QtQml
 j64-803/bin/QtQuick
 j64-803/bin/QtQuick.2

 I have not looked at what fif is doing that it did not give you this
 information.

 Thanks,

 --
 Raul

 On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 3:13 AM, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com wrote:
  I was using fif to try to find the screen used to look for things with
 fif.
 
  I did find the jhsfif and that js nice.
 
  I did not find the qt screens.
 
  The text Search from the screen did not show up in a search.
 
  Can someone please tell me where the qt screens and the qtfif application
  is?
 
  __---_
  https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!forum/havaogskulamal
  --
  For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
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Re: [Jchat] fif

[Björn Helgason]

From the users perspective then a huge majorty choose forms for input.

Ordinary casual users APL should tempt have chosen excel and such grid
input/outout plus some easy calculations.
On Sep 26, 2014 8:29 AM, Raul Miller rauldmil...@gmail.com wrote:

 As a general rule, the command line is far more powerful and expressive
 than forms and/or screens.

 However, there' a fun factor associated with the more glossy presentations.
 Perhaps a large part of that fun is exploring the glitches that result?

 Thanks,

 --
 Raul


 On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 4:17 AM, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com wrote:

  Thanks for your interest.
 
  None of these give the screen definitions in ijs for use in JQT.
 
  I guess J is not used for the fif dialog in jqt like it is in jhs.
 
  That does not build up too much confidence in it.
 
  I was intending to learn from it creating forms/screens for jqt.
 
  I am going more into JHS again when I have the time.
 
  It is not productive to go back and forth trying to use qt or html when I
  have such little time to spend on it.
 
  They are vastly different.
 
  __---_
  https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!forum/havaogskulamal
  On 25 Sep 2014 12:55, Raul Miller rauldmil...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   Here are the qt files which contain the string Search.
  
   j64-803/addons/ide/qt/keys.ijs
   j64-803/bin/jqt.dll
   j64-803/bin/Qt5Core.dll
   j64-803/bin/Qt5Gui.dll
   j64-803/bin/Qt5Multimedia.dll
   j64-803/bin/Qt5WebKit.dll
   j64-803/bin/Qt5Widgets.dll
   j64-803/bin/QtQuick/Controls/plugins.qmltypes
   j64-803/bin/QtQuick/Controls/qtquickcontrolsplugin.dll
   j64-803/bin/QtQuick/Controls/RadioButton.qml
   j64-803/bin/QtQuick/Controls/StackView.qml
   j64-803/bin/QtQuick.2/plugins.qmltypes
  
   Here are the directories which have 'Qt' in their name:
  
   j64-803/addons/ide/qt
   j64-803/bin/Qt
   j64-803/bin/QtQml
   j64-803/bin/QtQuick
   j64-803/bin/QtQuick.2
  
   I have not looked at what fif is doing that it did not give you this
   information.
  
   Thanks,
  
   --
   Raul
  
   On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 3:13 AM, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com
  wrote:
I was using fif to try to find the screen used to look for things
 with
   fif.
   
I did find the jhsfif and that js nice.
   
I did not find the qt screens.
   
The text Search from the screen did not show up in a search.
   
Can someone please tell me where the qt screens and the qtfif
  application
is?
   
__---_
https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!forum/havaogskulamal
   
 --
For information about J forums see
 http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
   --
   For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
  --
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 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
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[Jchat] fif

[Björn Helgason]

I was using fif to try to find the screen used to look for things with fif.

I did find the jhsfif and that js nice.

I did not find the qt screens.

The text Search from the screen did not show up in a search.

Can someone please tell me where the qt screens and the qtfif application
is?

__---_
https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!forum/havaogskulamal
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] Programming contest

[Björn Helgason]

I do not see pousse in the demo selection in 8.02.10 win64
On Sep 17, 2014 6:33 AM, Jon Hough jgho...@outlook.com wrote:

 Is there, or has there ever been an official J programming contest? I was
 just browsing dyalog APL's contest and thought it would be good to emulate
 that with J. Not with monetary rewards, but a hall of fame or something.
 Could be good to raise interest in J.
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] windows process priority?

[Björn Helgason]

AI is supposed to be clever and do things for you.

Fact is it is often stupid and does things to you.

__---_
https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!forum/havaogskulamal
On 10 Aug 2014 13:58, Raul Miller rauldmil...@gmail.com wrote:

 I have noticed, recently, that when I manually set a J process to above
 normal priority that something (I do not know what) sets it to below
 normal after a time.

 Needless to say, this is frustrating.

 Has anybody heard of this kind of thing happening, elsewhere?

 Thanks,

 --
 Raul
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

--
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Re: [Jchat] Turing Test success marks milestone in computing history

[Björn Helgason]

Put the AI into a latex doll and..
On 9 Jun 2014 08:50, Jack Andrews effb...@gmail.com wrote:

 Nice one, Donna.

 The funniest thing I ever read about the Turing test (well, it wasn't
 written in terms of that test, but I refer to it as the reverse Turing
 test)... A hotel wanted to keep up with the competition, so when hotel
 patrons chose a movie, there were people on roller skates in the basement
 finding the tape and pushing it into a VCR.
 If that happened today, I'd be completely fooled into thinking an automated
 system was feeding me. Or maybe it was an automated system...   :)

 The Turing test has been passed before.
 It all hangs on the interpretation of the Turing test.

 Ta, Jack

 On Sunday, June 8, 2014, Donna Y dy...@sympatico.ca wrote:

  TURING TEST SUCCESS MARKS MILESTONE IN COMPUTING HISTORY
 
  Release Date 08 June 2014
 
  Donna Y
  dy...@sympatico.ca javascript:;
 
 
  http://www.reading.ac.uk/news-and-events/releases/PR583836.aspx
 
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 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

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[Jchat] phrases

[Björn Helgason]

The phrases are great.

There is a short description what each does.

For some people that is enough and a great source of ideas.

It would be interesting to have a long description explaning each in detail
and what it is doing as well as giving examples of its use.
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] phrases

[Björn Helgason]

NuPhr
On Jun 6, 2014 4:32 PM, Raul Miller rauldmil...@gmail.com wrote:

 Or maybe NuPhrase?

 Thanks,

 --
 Raul


 On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 10:15 AM, greg heil ghei...@gmail.com wrote:

  Perhaps much less labor intensive but extremely useful would be to have
 a
  KWIK like analysis. Imbedding each phrasal usage in a NuVoc page. Perhaps
  further sorted by syntactic usage. i think the phrases are the most
 useful
  source for such a treatment, but other corpuses of good usage might also
 be
  so mined.
 
  greg
  ~krsnadas.org
 
  --
 
  from: Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com
  to: Chat forum c...@jsoftware.com
  date: 6 June 2014 06:20
  subject: [Jchat] phrases
 
  The phrases are great.
 
  There is a short description what each does.
 
  For some people that is enough and a great source of ideas.
 
  It would be interesting to have a long description explaning each in
  detail and what it is doing as well as giving examples of its use.
  --
  For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
 
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
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Re: [Jchat] Tutorial documentation

[Björn Helgason]

You could do faq to answer from different databases.

Like:

'voc' faq 6 1

gives info on function 6 and just rank

'voc' faq 13 2

short description on function 13

'nuvoc' faq 15 3

long description on function 15 from nuvoc

'voc' faq 17 4

examples for function 17

and so on
On 28 May 2014 16:40, Joe Bogner joebog...@gmail.com wrote:

 I did something along these lines here:
 http://www.jsoftware.com/pipermail/chat/2013-October/005401.html

 Not faq, but pulling in dictionary entries for symbols. It would be useful
 to update it for NuVoc and let a person search by name (e.g. 'dict floor')
 too


 On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com wrote:

  It would be interesting to have a facility in J to send requests to
  jsoftware and get automatic answers.
 
  Lets say the verb would be running at the user.
 
  The user would type:
 
  faq 1
 
  and get back an answer to the question:
 
  1. What is J?
 
  J is bla bla bla
  and was created by bla bla bla
 
  next question:
 
  faq 2
 
  2. Who was Ken Iverson?
 
  Ken Iversion was bla bla bla
  and bla bla bla
 
  faq 3
 
  3. How do you do bla bla bla
 
  In order to do bla bla bla
  you do bla bla bla
 
  faq 99
 
  99. list of questions
 
  1. What is J?
  2. Who was Ken Iverson?
  3. How do you do bla bla bla
  4.
 
  .
 
  99. list of faqs
 
  etc
 
  Could be relatively easy to set up because I guess most ingrendiences are
  already there.
   On 27 May 2014 17:28, Eric Iverson eric.b.iver...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   I agree that we must keep and improve the existing labs. There is too
   much good and criitical material there. But if we have a better
   infrastructure for  new labs then the old will gradually move to it.
  
   On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com
  wrote:
I do like the labs as is so using spx is a good idea but not change
 the
labs that are now.
   
Make new tutorial system using new features.
   
Not eliminate existing demos and labs.
   
I can see integrated video, helps, labs, demos, tutorials and have
different versions for beginners and advanced but in a new added
  system.
   
The existing labs and demos are great as is so do not change those at
   least
not until something better is in place.
 On 27 May 2014 14:14, Eric Iverson eric.b.iver...@gmail.com
  wrote:
   
The labs were great in their time. Rather than recreate that wheel
 it
might be worthwhile to step back and look at the issues in current
light.
   
I think the labs structure is too restricted. I strongly favor the
 JHS
spx approach that lets you treat any script (or any text file) as a
lab. I think this is a compelling argument. Right now the spx
 facility
is very simple but could be easily improved. Effort here might be
better than on the old lab aurthor system.
   
The other part of the solution (that would fit hand in glove with
enhanced spx) is to take advantage of the fact the scripts are
 loaded
(and spx managed) with J code. This means it is easy to make the
source script much richer. I think html with custom tags is the way
 to
go to have a single script that can be used to load an applicaton,
 run
an spx lab, and to have a literate programming display. Lots of hand
waving here, but a script that started with an html tag could be
handled specially by various programs. Load would strip out all
 lines
not in code-load) tags. spx could have special treatment of other
tags. Publish could do similar processing. And just showing the
 script
in a browser would be useful.
   
Lots of handwaving above, but I think this is the way to go. One
 nice
thing is that it could be done in small steps with immediate
 benefits.
For example the step to have load just handle the lines in
 code-load
tags and to just treat the script as html for display would provide
quite a few features. In fact, it might be best to just have html
scripts that can be handled by load and spx. Maybe foo.ijs.html
scripts.
   
Note that spx is not specific to JHS. It works reasonably well in
 Jqt
or Jconsole and could the rough edges in those environments can
 easily
be fixed with a bit of J programming. The new release of Jd uses spx
and works in all front ends.
   
Potential lab authors are far better off to learn some html than a J
specific lab authoring facility.
   
Any interest in making the general issue of labs/literate
programming/publishing the topic of a workshop at the conference in
July?
   
   
On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:23 PM, robert therriault
bobtherria...@mac.com wrote:
 Well, I am looking at it and I will keep everyone posted if I make
  any
progress, but I really won't feel bad if someone else wanted to take
  it
   on
(or even better join in).

 I am starting with the JHS system using Safari as my browser. Even

Re: [Jchat] Tutorial documentation

[Björn Helgason]

It would be interesting to have a facility in J to send requests to
jsoftware and get automatic answers.

Lets say the verb would be running at the user.

The user would type:

faq 1

and get back an answer to the question:

1. What is J?

J is bla bla bla
and was created by bla bla bla

next question:

faq 2

2. Who was Ken Iverson?

Ken Iversion was bla bla bla
and bla bla bla

faq 3

3. How do you do bla bla bla

In order to do bla bla bla
you do bla bla bla

faq 99

99. list of questions

1. What is J?
2. Who was Ken Iverson?
3. How do you do bla bla bla
4.

.

99. list of faqs

etc

Could be relatively easy to set up because I guess most ingrendiences are
already there.
 On 27 May 2014 17:28, Eric Iverson eric.b.iver...@gmail.com wrote:

 I agree that we must keep and improve the existing labs. There is too
 much good and criitical material there. But if we have a better
 infrastructure for  new labs then the old will gradually move to it.

 On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com wrote:
  I do like the labs as is so using spx is a good idea but not change the
  labs that are now.
 
  Make new tutorial system using new features.
 
  Not eliminate existing demos and labs.
 
  I can see integrated video, helps, labs, demos, tutorials and have
  different versions for beginners and advanced but in a new added system.
 
  The existing labs and demos are great as is so do not change those at
 least
  not until something better is in place.
   On 27 May 2014 14:14, Eric Iverson eric.b.iver...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  The labs were great in their time. Rather than recreate that wheel it
  might be worthwhile to step back and look at the issues in current
  light.
 
  I think the labs structure is too restricted. I strongly favor the JHS
  spx approach that lets you treat any script (or any text file) as a
  lab. I think this is a compelling argument. Right now the spx facility
  is very simple but could be easily improved. Effort here might be
  better than on the old lab aurthor system.
 
  The other part of the solution (that would fit hand in glove with
  enhanced spx) is to take advantage of the fact the scripts are loaded
  (and spx managed) with J code. This means it is easy to make the
  source script much richer. I think html with custom tags is the way to
  go to have a single script that can be used to load an applicaton, run
  an spx lab, and to have a literate programming display. Lots of hand
  waving here, but a script that started with an html tag could be
  handled specially by various programs. Load would strip out all lines
  not in code-load) tags. spx could have special treatment of other
  tags. Publish could do similar processing. And just showing the script
  in a browser would be useful.
 
  Lots of handwaving above, but I think this is the way to go. One nice
  thing is that it could be done in small steps with immediate benefits.
  For example the step to have load just handle the lines in code-load
  tags and to just treat the script as html for display would provide
  quite a few features. In fact, it might be best to just have html
  scripts that can be handled by load and spx. Maybe foo.ijs.html
  scripts.
 
  Note that spx is not specific to JHS. It works reasonably well in Jqt
  or Jconsole and could the rough edges in those environments can easily
  be fixed with a bit of J programming. The new release of Jd uses spx
  and works in all front ends.
 
  Potential lab authors are far better off to learn some html than a J
  specific lab authoring facility.
 
  Any interest in making the general issue of labs/literate
  programming/publishing the topic of a workshop at the conference in
  July?
 
 
  On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:23 PM, robert therriault
  bobtherria...@mac.com wrote:
   Well, I am looking at it and I will keep everyone posted if I make any
  progress, but I really won't feel bad if someone else wanted to take it
 on
  (or even better join in).
  
   I am starting with the JHS system using Safari as my browser. Even
  though the lab .ijt files are text files which any version of J would
 read,
  some of the instructions to initiate events such as running video are
  dependent on the J environment being used, so that generalization across
  the different environments may be end up being a challenge.
  
   The first challenge is to get people to think that it is not a bad
 idea.
  :-)
  
   Cheers, bob
  
   On May 26, 2014, at 7:05 PM, Raul Miller rauldmil...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  
   Does that mean you are volunteering to do the update?
  
   ;)
  
   Thanks,
  
   --
   Raul
  
  
  
   On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 8:56 PM, robert therriault 
  bobtherria...@mac.comwrote:
  
   Hey Raul,
  
   Developing a tool that can be used to create labs as they are
 imagined
  now
   is mostly an update from the previous lab author, so most of the
 heavy
   lifting has been done. The next level is to come up with what labs
  might
   become

Re: [Jchat] Bitcoin and Iceland

[Björn Helgason]

At the moment the bitcoins hold as much value for me as pyramid schemes and
lack in reliability.

Things you do not know much about.

How many in total?

Lot of other important questions.

Only relatively reliable is based on value of gold because it can not
easily be increased at will.

What is the real value of the dollar?

As far as I know there may be way too many and that means its value is
going down.

By the way the gowernment has no part in aurocoin.

We used to have krona and 100 aurar was one krona.

Aurar is close to zero and so is the krona and because the financial
control is close to zero.

Same as for the dollar only a bit faster melting.

-
Björn Helgason
gsm:6985532
skype:gosiminn
On 7.4.2014 07:49, Richard Hill hil...@melbpc.org.au wrote:

 Are the new crypto-currencies a fertile field for algorithm J-unkies?
 Perhaps our Icelandic friend might comment.
 He is 30 Auroracoin richer, by gift of his government.
 Auroracoin is the brain child of Iceland's own Satoshi Nakamoto-like
 character, who uses the pseudonym Baldur Friggjar Odinsson


 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] Bitcoin and Iceland

[Björn Helgason]

I did not and do not have a question about these new currencies.

They will need time to prove themself or wither away.

-
Björn Helgason
gsm:6985532
skype:gosiminn
On 7.4.2014 16:56, Raul Miller rauldmil...@gmail.com wrote:

 I've a friend who has been making a profit on cryptocurrencies.

 He's not in it to make a profit, but to have fun (and it requires some
 expertise at accounting and some experience with electronics and with hvac
 as much as anything else). Basically, a general purpose computer, or even a
 stack of gpus, cannot begin to compete. Also the power requirements for the
 custom built systems are significant enough that you need to treat them
 like electric heaters.

 J can be useful for modelling characteristics of such systems, and
 understanding J can be very helpful for reasoning about such systems. But
 the systems themselves? Mostly they just sit there, gradually being
 obsoleted by the new and improved systems which will replace them.

 Does that help answer your question?

 Thanks,

 --
 Raul



 On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 3:49 AM, Richard Hill hil...@melbpc.org.au wrote:

  Are the new crypto-currencies a fertile field for algorithm J-unkies?
  Perhaps our Icelandic friend might comment.
  He is 30 Auroracoin richer, by gift of his government.
  Auroracoin is the brain child of Iceland's own Satoshi Nakamoto-like
  character, who uses the pseudonym Baldur Friggjar Odinsson
 
 
  --
  For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
 
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] calculator

[Björn Helgason]

Any info on when console will be available?

jqt works a bit but freezes often so it is not really very useful yet.

The demos in jqt are great but editing files is problematic.

-
Björn Helgason
gsm:6985532
skype:gosiminn
On 11.1.2014 10:11, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com wrote:

 I highly recommend you to switch to 4.3 and make the new upgrade of J
 console rely on it.

 Split screen and lot of new features are important.

 It would be good to be able to do plot, demos, labs, grid from menus in
 console.

 It is good to enter JHS  - as now.

 Enter QT  from console might be an idea.

 -
 Björn Helgason
 gsm:6985532
 skype:gosiminn
 On 9.1.2014 19:43, Michael Dykman mdyk...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm in the same place as you as far as projects.  Early in my J
 career, I played with them long enough to appreciate how simple they
 are, but then never used them again.

 I made the JConsole for Android app principally for my own use and
 once I had plot and viewmat working (more thanks to Bill than me), I
 was pretty satisfied.  Some changes in the JAL seems to have reverted
 that.  On a fresh install of the app, I can run plot and viewmat well,
 using the external viewers.  Once I update, they stop working
 altogether.  I need to invest some time is figuring out what to do
 about that.

 Jqt is fairly low on my priority list; I first would like to clean up
 some messy bits of the existing 'console' app, normalize some dumb
 behaviour. Jqt is last because I think it's going to be very hard.



 On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com wrote:
  Great!
 
  If you do make the Jqt work it would be nice.
 
  It does look promising.
 
  What happens to my use of Jqt is it freezes in all kind of situations.
 
  I expect in some of them some mouse action is expected or ctrl
 combination.
 
  And if you do you might add some starter explanation on how to
 create/use
  projects.
 
  I have never used projects and never understood what it is all about.
 
  It is probably very easy but I am missing the point.
  On 9.1.2014 18:24, Michael Dykman mdyk...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  The only time Qt worked at all was in Chris Burke's proof of concept
 app.
 
  I am, in fact, hoping to find some time to do some updates and maybe
  integrate Qt (which Chris has given me leave to do), but have not been
  able to find sufficient time to get any momentum on the task.
 
  On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com
 wrote:
   It is 4.3
  
   A lot changed between 4.2 and 4.3
  
   I still use your J console and often JHS from there.
  
   J console most often straight and it is fine.
  
   It would be nice to upgrade it a bit though - I guess - if possible.
  
   JQT is not working - or so little that I never use it.
   On 9.1.2014 16:07, Michael Dykman mdyk...@gmail.com wrote:
  
   Björn,
  
   Which version of android is that?  I am still carrying around an old
   clunker that will not upgrade past 2.3.5 but expect to upgrade soon.
  
  
   On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 10:29 AM, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com
  wrote:
I got an update of the Android.
   
After the update the calculator has changed.
   
Now it is possible to toggle between one line and a log of prior
calculations.
   
It looks very much like the J console.
   
 --
For information about J forums see
  http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
  
  
  
   --
- michael dykman
- mdyk...@gmail.com
  
May the Source be with you.
  
 --
   For information about J forums see
 http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
  
  
 --
   For information about J forums see
 http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
 
 
 
  --
   - michael dykman
   - mdyk...@gmail.com
 
   May the Source be with you.
  --
  For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
 
  --
  For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm



 --
  - michael dykman
  - mdyk...@gmail.com

  May the Source be with you.
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm


--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] Hmm...

[Björn Helgason]

I have been involved in epidemiology for decades.

Lot of numbers and many interpretations.

Lot of problems with gathering correct long term data.

Lot of factors involved.

Difficult to make intelligent guess based on the stats.

-
Björn Helgason
gsm:6985532
skype:gosiminn
On 31.3.2014 07:17, Raul Miller rauldmil...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'd like to make just a few observations here:

 (1) Exposure to high levels of mercury results in a set of symptoms which
 are similar to those of autism.

 (2) Some medical treatments (for example where number to treat is 100 and
 the cost of treatment is sufficiently high) should probably be considered
 fraudulent.

 (3) Many diseases result in pretty much identical symptoms (if you know to
 look for them).

 (4) Collecting good statistics about cause/effect issues is incredibly
 difficult and subject to considerable observer and reporting bias.

 I could go on, but that's probably enough.

 Basically: everyone has to make their own choices. And, personally, I'm
 inclined to accept whatever choices people make for themselves (though not
 always).

 Still, it's interesting to see how other people reason about social
 agreement issues.

 Thanks,

 --
 Raul


 On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 3:01 AM, robert therriault bobtherria...@mac.com
 wrote:

  Thanks for the link Raul, it does get me to thinking.
 
  I disagree with the authors interviewed on NPR [1] that parents of
  children with autism are less likely to vaccinate their second child
  because of a threat to (the parents') self esteem. It seems more likely
 to
  me that although the medical community can make a good case for vaccines
  not being the cause, they have also been unable to identify what does
 cause
  autism. A few days ago, the CDC released the rates of autism spectrum
  disorder (ASD) as 1 in 42 for boys and 1 in 189 for girls for an average
 in
  1 in 68 [2]; and I think that this prevalence along with the vacuum of
  knowledge of the true cause, makes parents  distrustful, even when they
 may
  accept the evidence that vaccines do not play a role.
 
  I believe this same reasoning is flawed when it comes to teaching with
  alternative tools as described in the Computing Education Blog [3]. The
  author seems to think that the students rebel because their self esteem
 is
  threatened by learning programming languages that are unaccepted by the
  mainstream (in this case Squeak). I think it is more likely that the
  students are faced with the same sort of vacuum that the parents of
  children with autism face.  The students may not be seeing examples of
 how
  the alternative can actually outperform the status quo, but may instead
 be
  reacting to a balance of power in the classroom with the professor
 telling
  them what they should be learning. If the students can be given proof
 that
  the new tools work effectively and be given access to these tools, I
 think
  that resistance would soon evaporate. In fact, I think it unlikely that
 new
  generations would prefer old tools over new ones, once trust in the new
  tools is established.
 
  I consider both these stories as examples of good critical thinking, with
  students and parents taking the 'show me' approach in the face of
  uncertainty, and not just accepting what they are being told.
 
  For the students, let's show them some tools of thought and then see how
  long much longer they would like to work with traditional languages.
 
  As for the parents, anything that can be done to find out what is causing
  the rates of autism to rise would be welcome, but that solution is beyond
  the scope of this forum.
 
  Cheers, bob
 
  [1]
 
 http://www.npr.org/2014/03/04/285580969/when-it-comes-to-vaccines-science-can-run-into-a-brick-wall
  [2] http://www.autismspeaks.org/news/news-item/prevalence-autism-rises
  [3]
 
 http://computinged.wordpress.com/2014/03/31/facts-that-conflict-with-identity-can-lead-to-rejection-trying-to-teach-with-different-tools/
 
 
  On Mar 30, 2014, at 10:27 PM, Raul Miller rauldmil...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   Food for thought:
  
  
 
 http://computinged.wordpress.com/2014/03/31/facts-that-conflict-with-identity-can-lead-to-rejection-trying-to-teach-with-different-tools/
  
   --
   Raul
   --
   For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
 
  --
  For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
 
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] Teaching J - publicly-available JHS?

[Björn Helgason]

A good practice is to install J on all pcs in public places and in schools.

Now it is possible to use tablets and the price of tablets is good.

It is brilliant to be able to run demos and labs so the beginners can get a
feel for the power of J without knowing much and can get their own to learn
more.
-
Björn Helgason
gsm:6985532
skype:gosiminn
On 23.3.2014 16:27, Devon McCormick devon...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm in a teaching workshop in which we should present an example lesson
 plan at the end.  I'd like to do a J example but really need to allow
 people to do hands-on usage and it's probably  too much to ask for everyone
 to install J but, if there were a website to which I could direct people,
 it's much less of an obstacle.

 Does anyone have the facilities to set up something like thiis?  Is it
 possible to use one of the free cloud services to do this?

 --
 Devon McCormick, CFA
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

[Jchat] old machines

[Björn Helgason]

I dusted off some old machines to run J8.

I most of the time turned old m$ machines into linux but I keep some m$ too.

An interesting part is that going in for linux speeds up old m$ machines
but just turning off or uninstalling the virus protection does the same.

The virus protection never finds any viruses but it slows everything down
with scans.

It is quite nice to run the same application on different machines.

This new wd is nice.

I have not done much more than go through some demos.

On Linux and m$ I can have many windows open at the same time and not under
Android and the windowes become strethced but it is nice to have the same
on all.

-
Björn Helgason
gsm:6985532
skype:gosiminn
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] APL character support (moved to Chat)

[Björn Helgason]

What you can easily do is create names for the signs you want to use.

If you want you could do NB. and/or some Unicode picture to replace that
name and toggle between the three representations.

Unicode pictures include chess pieces polarbeers etc

-
Björn Helgason
gsm:6985532
skype:gosiminn
On 27.2.2014 21:57, Skip Cave s...@caveconsulting.com wrote:

 Just my two cents worth...

 As an old APL (occasional) programmer, I always wanted a way to flip a
 switch in the J editor and turn J's 2-character primitives into APL
 characters (where appropriate), and either leave J's unique verbs alone,
 have the community decide on an appropriate single glyph, or let me pick a
 symbol for those myself. Then I could always flip that switch in the editor
 back, and see the actual J code, any time I wanted.

 For me, it was never about how many characters I had to type. It was about
 what I saw, when I looked at the code. IMHO, the APL single glyphs just
 made the functionality of programs much easier to grasp as I read through
 them.

  If I am entering code and the switch was in APL mode, I could just type
 the actual J 2-character primitives, and the one-character APL symbol would
 appear on the screen.

 When sending code around, I can always send the normal ASCII J
 representation (like sending the compiled binaries of a program), and the
 receiver of the code would have the option of looking at the J code in its
 native form, or viewing the APL-like symbols.

 I'm sure this plan has many (undiscovered by me) flaws, but it is my
 dream...

 Skip



 Skip Cave
 Cave Consulting LLC


 On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 1:03 PM, Don Guinn dongu...@gmail.com wrote:

  This discussion started out on using APL characters as executable in J.
 I'm
  not sure I would want to make many equivalences between APL symbols and J
  primitives; however, representing APL characters and international
  characters gets into the way J handles these characters with the
 character
  types literal, unicode and UTF-8.
 
  Those not interested bail out now as the rest is kind of boring, but my
  soap-box.
 
  About the time mini-computers and personal computers became common 7-bit
  ASCII was well-established standard. But since by this time computers had
  standardized on 8 bits to the character. This extra bit allowed for
  supporting international characters and still fit in the byte. In
 addition,
  APL used those extra characters to support APL characters. But this lead
 to
  confusion since those characters varied between countries and systems.
 
  Unicode was created to attempt to clean this mess up. It took the 7-bit
  ASCII and a fairly accepted version of the 8-bit version of extended
 ASCII
  and added leading zeros up to 32 bits. Now there is all kinds of room to
  support many languages in a compatible manner.
 
  Enter UCS Transformation Format, in particular UTF-8. There are many
  problems with Unicode as it made ASCII files much larger and take longer
 to
  send over slow communications lines. And there is the endian issue
 between
  different computers. UTF-8 is an ingenious technique to compress unicode
 in
  a manner that is completely compatible with 7-bit ASCII. The endian
 problem
  is eliminated. It is not compatible with 8-bit ASCII extensions. 7-bit
  ASCII text looks identical to UTF-8 text. The 8-bit ASCII extensions text
  does not. Those characters become two bytes each using the UTF-8
  compression algorithm.
 
  J converts literal to unicode by simply putting a zero byte in front
  extending it to the the 16-bit version of Unicode implemented in Windows
  and Unix. This is perfectly valid as the numeric values of the first 256
  Unicode letters match the 8-bit ASCII extension. UTF-8 assumes that
  _128{.a. characters in literal are used in the compression algorithm.
 That
  they do not represent extended ASCII. But J treats UTF-8 as literal
 making
  it impossible to tell if those characters represent extended ASCII or
 UTF-8
  compression.
 
  UTF-8 is a compressed version of Unicode that J fits in literal. J treats
  literal as 8-bit extended ASCII when combining and converting to/from
  unicode (wide). It treats literal as UTF-8 when entered from the keyboard
  and displayed. Got a bit of an inconsistency here.
 
 U =: 7 u: u =: 'þ'
 
 3!:0 u   NB. u is literal
 
  2
 
 3!:0 U   NB. U is unicode
 
  131072
 
 #u   NB. u takes 2 atoms
 
  2
 
 #U   NB. U takes 1 atom
 
  1
 
 'abc',u  NB. ASCII literals catenate with UTF-8
 
  abcþ
 
 'abc',U  NB. ASCII literals catenate with unicode
 
  abcþ
 
 u,U  NB. UTF-8 literals do not catenate well with unicode
 
  þþ
 
 a.i.u,U  NB. Here we have þ in two forms
 
  195 190 254
 
  So, when programming in J one must never mix UTF-8 and unicode without
  being extremely careful and aware of what can happen. It is easiest to
 use
  ASCII and UTF-8 together. Not a problem as one cannot get any unicode
 into
  J without

Re: [Jchat] APL character support (moved to Chat)

[Björn Helgason]

   u:i.16 16

is what I used to expect
16 16$a.
to be

-
Björn Helgason
gsm:6985532
skype:gosiminn
On 28.2.2014 01:54, chris burke cbu...@jsoftware.com wrote:

  The problem I am trying to point out is that the characters in _128{.a
 fall
  in a no-man's land. They are ambiguous. Sometimes they are treated like
  8-bit extended ASCII. Sometimes they are treated like UTF-8 compression
  characters.

 I don't agree that _128{.a. fall into a no-man's land.

 J text is utf8, so _128{.a. are ordinary bytes. They are not any kind of
 characters, since they are not valid utf8.

 Earlier versions of J (J5 and earlier?) treated them as 8-bit extended
 ASCII, but this is no longer the case.


 On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Don Guinn dongu...@gmail.com wrote:

  Everybody wants to talk about handling APL characters. I'm for that too,
  but first we need to make it clear on how to handle UTF-8 or
 UTF-whatever.
  The problem I am trying to point out is that the characters in _128{.a
 fall
  in a no-man's land. They are ambiguous. Sometimes they are treated like
  8-bit extended ASCII. Sometimes they are treated like UTF-8 compression
  characters.
 
 u,U
  þþ
  shows how display got confused. Is it supposed to display UTF-8? Or is it
  supposed to display 8-bit extended ASCII? Looks like it ran into an error
  attempting to display it as UTF-8 so it switched to 8-bit extended ASCII.
  : output is always literal. So
 #:u,U
  6
 a.i.:u,U
  195 131 194 190 195 190
  switched all the 8-bit extended ASCII to UTF-8. But sometimes it just
 puts
  in � when it can't figure out what to do. Maybe it should have displayed
  the 8-bit extended ASCII instead. The trouble is that the character þ is
  ambiguous.
 
  The reason why 7 u: 254{a. is an error is because 7 u. specifically has
  UTF-8 or ASCII as a right argument. 254{a. is neither. It is what I have
  been calling 8-bit extended ASCII.
 
  Before we can even hope to effectively deal with APL characters we need
 to
  be very clear on how to handle UTF-8.
  --
  For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
 
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] games

[Björn Helgason]

Companies are shifting to all kinds of low costs.

The companies selling services and/or hardware are hard hit.

It is very difficult managing a company with a shrinking market.

When people are let go the most productive go first.

The company keeps on going with ever higher percentage of fat.

We are seeing a major change and many giants are suffering.

In my oppinion the situation is similar now to when we started going over
to pcs around 80 but now we are going in for smartphones and clouds.

J is good and well in the smartphones and in the browsers so no problems
there.

I almost feel sorry for some of the really big companies - only almost -
actually not really - know a few and they are dinasaures who deserve to
suffer.

In music etc the middlemen are feeling the heat but the musicians are
better off and in more and better contact with their audience.

Adverticing seems to be giving money in various ways but it is an difficult
market.

You do not want spam.

The social medias are in a strange situation.

I am personally in favor of communication but hate spam and intrusive
manners as many of them present.

Games seem to be growing but it is ever harder to make money out of it.

I have been making money out of working with tourism and it seems to be
growing like many entertainment industries.

Fluctuates quite a bit.

-
Björn Helgason
gsm:6985532
skype:gosiminn
On 23.2.2014 14:09, Raul Miller rauldmil...@gmail.com wrote:

 games covers a lot of ground. Football is a game, poker is a game,
 farmville is a game, bunnies and burrows is a game (or it used to be),
 ...

 Nowadays, there's a lot of money being made in games as media (World
 of Warcraft is an example). There's so much money changing hands here
 that more traditional media companies - music, television, movies -
 are seeing their profits cut (and this change in profits is often
 ascribed to online piracy).

 There are some really interesting economic lessons here.

 One of the most interesting issues, from my point of view, is the
 concept of a sharing economy or a gift economy. We have always had
 advertising, and sales and profits have always depended on
 advertising. But nowadays intense economic competition is pushing more
 and more value into advertising. If you want to succeed you have to
 give away more and more for free (and you still need to pull back
 enough to eat, of course). Computers and the efficiencies they bring
 make this possible, and necessary.

 So, for example, we are seeing successful advertisers putting more
 effort into making their advertisements be entertaining. But it's even
 deeper than that - the free software movement can also be seen as
 advertising. Software professionals advertise their skills this way,
 companies advertise their services this way, etc.

 And, in the games markets, we are more and more seeing free to play
 games, where the game itself is a market place. [But most of them
 fail, by not offering many payment options. Adults in different
 countries don't even have the same currencies available to them, and
 the younger crowd will tend to not have established credit ratings. On
 the positive side, this makes it easier for their competition.]

 Meanwhile, different people have very different tastes, and ... we
 also tend to be a bit picky:
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon's_law

 It's a fascinating set of issues and problems, and while some of the
 implications are clear, some of them seem surprisingly non-obvious.

 Thanks,

 --
 Raul
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] [Jprogramming] J in 5 minutes

[Björn Helgason]

I use thin plastic to cover food on the touchscreen and then it is easy to
change and the glass is protected.

This cost - close to - nothing.

In the computestore they charge for protective plastic.

If you want to become rich you do not try to earn a lot of money.

Better try to not spend too much.

-
Björn Helgason
gsm:6985532
skype:gosiminn
On 23.2.2014 16:13, Raul Miller rauldmil...@gmail.com wrote:

 I gave up using a mac, because of touchpad physics issues. I sometimes
 peel an orange or wash my hands and the touchpad I had acted up for
 days after it got the slightest bit moist. So that was not very
 productive for me.

 So... what I am trying to say is: I do not know about mac screencast
 software, and have been too frustrated with other issues to try. But I
 have seen some positive comments about screenflow. Is that something
 you would feel comfortable trying?

 Thanks,

 --
 Raul


 On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Brian Schott schott.br...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Let me add some background to my question. I have always used a
 screencast
  software, named Screenium, and have routinely used a keystroke shortcut
 to
  toggle the pause mode while recording so that I can secretly copy the
 next
  input line and then paste that line into the recording after toggling
  again. The problem is that I had to upgrade Screenium this last time and
  there seems to be a software glitch that hides from me any way to be
 aware
  of the current state, pause vs record. And much to my disappointment I do
  not seem to be able to always correctly toggle, so I have been very
  disappointed with this most recent recording session. I have tried to
 just
  record the whole session and then edit out all of the secret pieces, but
  that has not been satisfying for me because I apparently cannot deal well
  emotionally with the recording be always on; you don't want/need to know
  about that, though.  So while I am waiting to hear from the developer of
  Screenium about where my toggle awareness feature disappeared to -- its
  been 3 days with no reply from support -- I thought I would look for an
  alternative. But, in reality I need the toggle awareness if I am going to
  get back into my recording comfort zone. So, I guess an answer to my
  question would really not solve my problem.
 
 
 
 
 
 
  On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 8:40 AM, Brian Schott schott.br...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  Pascal,
 
  [moved to chat]
 
  These comments seem very cogent, and are essential to doing the more
  finance oriented version of this essay.
 
  I do have a question. Is there a way to use a long input log
  surreptitiously in a session so that it does not require using the up
 arrow
  a n times for each usage, because that is ugly looking (where n is the
  number of sentences you want to execute)? Or maybe you are suggesting
  another use of the input log about which I am unaware?
 
 
 
 
 
  --
  (B=)
  --
  For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] touchQuery

[Björn Helgason]

You can use J on Androids and you can program touch with JQT.

-
Björn Helgason
gsm:6985532
skype:gosiminn
On 17.2.2014 11:45, Ni Bo nicolaebor...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,

 I found these videos on youtube and thought to share:
 http://www.youtube.com/user/touchquery?feature=watch.

 The touch programming interface for J language seems very easy to use; it
 is somehow similar with how Chinese people type on their keyboards.

 Regards,
 Nick
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] Contract J Programming job

[Björn Helgason]

There is a very good xml addon that is easy to use and can extract data.

-
Björn Helgason
gsm:6985532
skype:gosiminn
On 29.1.2014 19:59, Skip Cave s...@caveconsulting.com wrote:

 All,

 I have a project where I need to parse and analyze a large number of log
 files. The logs contain audio files as well as paired xml (text) files
 which describe various aspects of each audio file. I need to extract
 specific information from the xml files, and then use that information to
 pull audio files out of the logs for further analysis. I would like to use
 J for this process, but my J skills are not quite up to the level required
 for this job.

 Is there a J'er who would be willing to help me build the parsing and
 extraction scripts? I expect the coding job would only take a few hours at
 most, and I would be willing to pay for the job. I would also like to treat
 this as an opportunity to improve my J skills. If you are interested, you
 can find my email on the
 http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Community/Demographics page.

 Skip Cave
 Cave Consulting LLC
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] calculator

[Björn Helgason]

I highly recommend you to switch to 4.3 and make the new upgrade of J
console rely on it.

Split screen and lot of new features are important.

It would be good to be able to do plot, demos, labs, grid from menus in
console.

It is good to enter JHS  - as now.

Enter QT  from console might be an idea.

-
Björn Helgason
gsm:6985532
skype:gosiminn
On 9.1.2014 19:43, Michael Dykman mdyk...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm in the same place as you as far as projects.  Early in my J
 career, I played with them long enough to appreciate how simple they
 are, but then never used them again.

 I made the JConsole for Android app principally for my own use and
 once I had plot and viewmat working (more thanks to Bill than me), I
 was pretty satisfied.  Some changes in the JAL seems to have reverted
 that.  On a fresh install of the app, I can run plot and viewmat well,
 using the external viewers.  Once I update, they stop working
 altogether.  I need to invest some time is figuring out what to do
 about that.

 Jqt is fairly low on my priority list; I first would like to clean up
 some messy bits of the existing 'console' app, normalize some dumb
 behaviour. Jqt is last because I think it's going to be very hard.



 On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com wrote:
  Great!
 
  If you do make the Jqt work it would be nice.
 
  It does look promising.
 
  What happens to my use of Jqt is it freezes in all kind of situations.
 
  I expect in some of them some mouse action is expected or ctrl
 combination.
 
  And if you do you might add some starter explanation on how to create/use
  projects.
 
  I have never used projects and never understood what it is all about.
 
  It is probably very easy but I am missing the point.
  On 9.1.2014 18:24, Michael Dykman mdyk...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  The only time Qt worked at all was in Chris Burke's proof of concept
 app.
 
  I am, in fact, hoping to find some time to do some updates and maybe
  integrate Qt (which Chris has given me leave to do), but have not been
  able to find sufficient time to get any momentum on the task.
 
  On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com
 wrote:
   It is 4.3
  
   A lot changed between 4.2 and 4.3
  
   I still use your J console and often JHS from there.
  
   J console most often straight and it is fine.
  
   It would be nice to upgrade it a bit though - I guess - if possible.
  
   JQT is not working - or so little that I never use it.
   On 9.1.2014 16:07, Michael Dykman mdyk...@gmail.com wrote:
  
   Björn,
  
   Which version of android is that?  I am still carrying around an old
   clunker that will not upgrade past 2.3.5 but expect to upgrade soon.
  
  
   On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 10:29 AM, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com
  wrote:
I got an update of the Android.
   
After the update the calculator has changed.
   
Now it is possible to toggle between one line and a log of prior
calculations.
   
It looks very much like the J console.
   
 --
For information about J forums see
  http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
  
  
  
   --
- michael dykman
- mdyk...@gmail.com
  
May the Source be with you.
  
 --
   For information about J forums see
 http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
  
   --
   For information about J forums see
 http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
 
 
 
  --
   - michael dykman
   - mdyk...@gmail.com
 
   May the Source be with you.
  --
  For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
 
  --
  For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm



 --
  - michael dykman
  - mdyk...@gmail.com

  May the Source be with you.
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] calculator

[Björn Helgason]

It is 4.3

A lot changed between 4.2 and 4.3

I still use your J console and often JHS from there.

J console most often straight and it is fine.

It would be nice to upgrade it a bit though - I guess - if possible.

JQT is not working - or so little that I never use it.
On 9.1.2014 16:07, Michael Dykman mdyk...@gmail.com wrote:

 Björn,

 Which version of android is that?  I am still carrying around an old
 clunker that will not upgrade past 2.3.5 but expect to upgrade soon.


 On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 10:29 AM, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com wrote:
  I got an update of the Android.
 
  After the update the calculator has changed.
 
  Now it is possible to toggle between one line and a log of prior
  calculations.
 
  It looks very much like the J console.
  --
  For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm



 --
  - michael dykman
  - mdyk...@gmail.com

  May the Source be with you.
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] calculator

[Björn Helgason]

Great!

If you do make the Jqt work it would be nice.

It does look promising.

What happens to my use of Jqt is it freezes in all kind of situations.

I expect in some of them some mouse action is expected or ctrl combination.

And if you do you might add some starter explanation on how to create/use
projects.

I have never used projects and never understood what it is all about.

It is probably very easy but I am missing the point.
On 9.1.2014 18:24, Michael Dykman mdyk...@gmail.com wrote:

 The only time Qt worked at all was in Chris Burke's proof of concept app.

 I am, in fact, hoping to find some time to do some updates and maybe
 integrate Qt (which Chris has given me leave to do), but have not been
 able to find sufficient time to get any momentum on the task.

 On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com wrote:
  It is 4.3
 
  A lot changed between 4.2 and 4.3
 
  I still use your J console and often JHS from there.
 
  J console most often straight and it is fine.
 
  It would be nice to upgrade it a bit though - I guess - if possible.
 
  JQT is not working - or so little that I never use it.
  On 9.1.2014 16:07, Michael Dykman mdyk...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Björn,
 
  Which version of android is that?  I am still carrying around an old
  clunker that will not upgrade past 2.3.5 but expect to upgrade soon.
 
 
  On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 10:29 AM, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com
 wrote:
   I got an update of the Android.
  
   After the update the calculator has changed.
  
   Now it is possible to toggle between one line and a log of prior
   calculations.
  
   It looks very much like the J console.
   --
   For information about J forums see
 http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
 
 
 
  --
   - michael dykman
   - mdyk...@gmail.com
 
   May the Source be with you.
  --
  For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
 
  --
  For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm



 --
  - michael dykman
  - mdyk...@gmail.com

  May the Source be with you.
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] eli

[Björn Helgason]

From the pages about eli  (J is both free and uses ASCII characters but it
is more terse and difficult to learn than APL).

I do not share this view but many people do.

I think it important to get rid of this notion.

Very many people use APL and J to show how you can solve tasks using as few
signs as possible.

I think it is i portant to show that you can solve tasks in J in the
tradional way and then if needed/wanted changed into something more fun.

There is not a huge importance getting the terse code compiled.

Any possible compilation would be a small subset.

Getting applications more easily running in a standalone fashion is
something that could be important.

And yet again more demos etc is something of interest and needed.

A lot is happening and has been done but still we see theq quote above.
 On 29 Dec 2013 18:44, Raul Miller rauldmil...@gmail.com wrote:

 Yes, apparently it's been around about 10 years? And it looks like
 vsapl with a q influence.

 The aspects I like are the compiler and the esql. I am of the opinion
 that having additional perspectives is nice.

 Its limiting its base language to something like iso vsapl is also an
 interesting choice. That I imagine reduces the implementation skill
 required to get it going (which in turn lends itself to stuff like
 compilers and sql subset support).

 From a J perspective, I think that a compiler that handled a subset of
 the language (even if it was only a rank 0 subset) would be a good
 thing. This would extend the utility of the notation (albeit with
 maybe a cost in elegance).

 I remember using a similar APL compiler back in the '90s. It used ML
 style type inference and was basically more limited than a fortran or
 c compiler. But when you had a performance bottleneck which you had
 isolated to a simple function it was handy.

 Nowadays, of course, there are lots of other directions to go
 (https://github.com/CovertLab/WholeCell --
 http://wholecell.stanford.edu/ might be a good illustration of what
 can be done with a distributed system) and I think there's a lot to be
 said for using language subsets when exploring such opportunities.

 Thanks,

 --
 Raul


 On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Roger Hui rogerhui.can...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  http://archive.vector.org.uk/art10501180
  On 2013-12-29 6:43 AM, Raul Miller rauldmil...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  http://fastarray.appspot.com/default.html
 
  Looks like J has a new cousin...
 
  --
  Raul
  --
  For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
 
  --
  For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] ymacs

[Björn Helgason]

I finally had time to read this and I also looked up how to use emacs on
the Android.

Since I got the Android my use of other computers has gone down to almost
nothing.

Unfortunately that has also meant a lot less J than before.

I have been hoping for a J with the option of interacting with other apps
on the Android.

A lot of people seem to be creating all kind of apps and the use of the
Android growing all the time.

Using J on the Android has been somewhat of a waiting game.

It came out some time ago and was the main reason for me buying the Android
in the first place.

Using JHS on the Android works but it is not as easy as I would like.

J console and J qt worked for a while but addons killed both and I am told
something will fix it eventually.

So my J work on the Android is very limited and use of other machines is
more or less 0.

Use of emacs on the Android seems to be difficult too.

Travelling and using the Android and many of its apps is absolutely great
but it is a minus having to wait for J to work well on it.
On Jul 9, 2013 10:33 AM, Raul Miller rauldmil...@gmail.com wrote:

 jhs might use http://www.ymacs.org/

 Does anyone still use jhs?

 --
 Raul
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] ymacs

[Björn Helgason]

thx for this

looks interesting
On Jul 9, 2013 10:33 AM, Raul Miller rauldmil...@gmail.com wrote:

 jhs might use http://www.ymacs.org/

 Does anyone still use jhs?

 --
 Raul
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] [Jprogramming] Testing consecutive pairs of primes

[Björn Helgason]

subprime?

On May 12, 2013 11:51 AM, Henry Rich henryhr...@nc.rr.com wrote:

 I don't quite get the problem statement.

 r =. (p+q)%2 is between p and q; so if p and q are CONSECUTIVE primes, r
cannot be prime.

 Henry
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] J on Julia benchmark

[Björn Helgason]

What is quite obvious is that ordinary users have taken a fondness for all
kinds of spreadsheets.

Over the years spreadsheets have been very popular.

Spreadsheets may not be as advanced as many programming languages.

All kinds of things may be much better handled in J than a spreadsheet.

So why not mix J and spreadsheets?

J and grids have been interesting.

Some demos of sending data between a spreadsheet and J have been
interesting.

Having a spreadsheet with all the power of J would be very interesting.




2013/5/11 a39610...@yandex.ru

 I can imagine that if one were to look into how the documents are
 generated, it would show interesting things like half the time going to
 parsing XML or some other similarly relevant activity.
 
 This kind of nonsense is rampant in commercial systems.
 
 Anyone in this forum (maybe even working at MS) have a rationale for
 naming an HTML file with a .xls extension?  (and distributing it to the
 world)

 Imagine you want a quick-and-dirty export for medium-competent users.

 You do not want to do all the configuration of sorting etc. because they
 want to be able to sort it in their spreadsheet anyway.

 You know that a file of any widespread format and with .xls extension
 will be opened in the spreadsheet program the user uses — whether it is
 Excel or LibreOffice, Calligra or something else.

 Now: generating valid XLS is a pain. CSV is good, but there are problems
 with default encoding. And HTML is opened easily by Excel _and_ contains
 encoding header. Also, valid HTML is not complex to parse and it is also
 easy to write a script that will reexport HTML file to CSV using any
 spreadsheet program (maybe even lynx). So it gives optimal balance of
 inconveniences given their distribution of user skills.



 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm




-- 
Björn Helgason, Verkfræðingur
Fornustekkum II
781 Hornafirði,
t-póst: gos...@gmail.com
gsm: +3546985532
twitter: @flugfiskur
http://groups.google.com/group/J-Programming


Tæknikunnátta höndlar hið flókna, sköpunargáfa er meistari einfaldleikans

góður kennari getur stigið á tær án þess að glansinn fari af skónum
  /|_  .---.
 ,'  .\  /  | Með léttri lund verður|
 ,--'_,'   | Dagurinn í dag |
/   /   | Enn betri en gærdagurinn  |
   (   -.  |`---'
   | ) | (\_ _/)
  (`-.  '--.)   (='.'=)   ♖♘♗♕♔♙
   `. )'()_() ☃☠
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] J on Julia benchmark

[Björn Helgason]

I am more interested in J - grid combinations.

I have both done a few and seen some demos.

Doing a fully functional spreadsheet in J using grid is what I think would
be great.

Not least having it run in in a browser using JHS and something like demo6
with extend functionality.

What is needed is a form editor for JHS allowing you to place grids and
graphs in the browser.

2013/5/11 Greg Borota bor...@gmail.com

 Interesting idea. You could actually combine J and spreadsheets right now
 either via the COM (after registering J.dll) or by using VSTO and the
 PInvoke layer I wrote (and I hear others have had too but those are not
 publicly available):
 https://github.com/borota/NetJ/blob/master/J.SessionManager/JSession.cs
 .NET J console is an example of using j.dll inside C#:
 https://github.com/borota/NetJ/blob/master/J.Console/Program.cs


 On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 4:03 AM, Björn Helgason gos...@gmail.com wrote:

  What is quite obvious is that ordinary users have taken a fondness for
 all
  kinds of spreadsheets.
 
  Over the years spreadsheets have been very popular.
 
  Spreadsheets may not be as advanced as many programming languages.
 
  All kinds of things may be much better handled in J than a spreadsheet.
 
  So why not mix J and spreadsheets?
 
  J and grids have been interesting.
 
  Some demos of sending data between a spreadsheet and J have been
  interesting.
 
  Having a spreadsheet with all the power of J would be very interesting.
 
 
 
 
  2013/5/11 a39610...@yandex.ru
 
   I can imagine that if one were to look into how the documents are
   generated, it would show interesting things like half the time going
 to
   parsing XML or some other similarly relevant activity.
   
   This kind of nonsense is rampant in commercial systems.
   
   Anyone in this forum (maybe even working at MS) have a rationale for
   naming an HTML file with a .xls extension?  (and distributing it to
 the
   world)
  
   Imagine you want a quick-and-dirty export for medium-competent users.
  
   You do not want to do all the configuration of sorting etc. because
 they
   want to be able to sort it in their spreadsheet anyway.
  
   You know that a file of any widespread format and with .xls extension
   will be opened in the spreadsheet program the user uses — whether it is
   Excel or LibreOffice, Calligra or something else.
  
   Now: generating valid XLS is a pain. CSV is good, but there are
 problems
   with default encoding. And HTML is opened easily by Excel _and_
 contains
   encoding header. Also, valid HTML is not complex to parse and it is
 also
   easy to write a script that will reexport HTML file to CSV using any
   spreadsheet program (maybe even lynx). So it gives optimal balance of
   inconveniences given their distribution of user skills.
  
  
  
   --
   For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
  
 
 
 
  --
  Björn Helgason, Verkfræðingur
  Fornustekkum II
  781 Hornafirði,
  t-póst: gos...@gmail.com
  gsm: +3546985532
  twitter: @flugfiskur
  http://groups.google.com/group/J-Programming
 
 
  Tæknikunnátta höndlar hið flókna, sköpunargáfa er meistari einfaldleikans
 
  góður kennari getur stigið á tær án þess að glansinn fari af skónum
/|_  .---.
   ,'  .\  /  | Með léttri lund verður|
   ,--'_,'   | Dagurinn í dag |
  /   /   | Enn betri en gærdagurinn  |
 (   -.  |`---'
 | ) | (\_ _/)
(`-.  '--.)   (='.'=)   ♖♘♗♕♔♙
 `. )'()_() ☃☠
  --
  For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
 
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm




-- 
Björn Helgason, Verkfræðingur
Fornustekkum II
781 Hornafirði,
t-póst: gos...@gmail.com
gsm: +3546985532
twitter: @flugfiskur
http://groups.google.com/group/J-Programming


Tæknikunnátta höndlar hið flókna, sköpunargáfa er meistari einfaldleikans

góður kennari getur stigið á tær án þess að glansinn fari af skónum
  /|_  .---.
 ,'  .\  /  | Með léttri lund verður|
 ,--'_,'   | Dagurinn í dag |
/   /   | Enn betri en gærdagurinn  |
   (   -.  |`---'
   | ) | (\_ _/)
  (`-.  '--.)   (='.'=)   ♖♘♗♕♔♙
   `. )'()_() ☃☠
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm