Re: [c-nsp] heat fins popping loose on WS-X67xx cards
One year after the original post, i finally met the same issue on a 6748-GE-TX card. Anyone got any complaints from Cisco about RMAing it? -- Tassos Jay Ford wrote on 29/05/2009 16:58: On Fri, 29 May 2009, Tassos Chatzithomaoglou wrote: Can someone please take a photo and upload it somewhere, so everyone else can better understand what exactly is the issue you're talking about? Take a look at: http://myweb.uiowa.edu/jnford/images/IMG_0589.jpg http://myweb.uiowa.edu/jnford/images/IMG_0590.jpg The first shows the Z1 socket in the background with the fuzzy loop in the foreground. The second shows the heat fin loop in the foregraound with the socket in the background. The loop is supposed to be in the Z1 socket. Based on the responses I've received it seems that this is a fairly common failure due to a design flaw. I got the usual that's strange; nobody else is having this problem from Cisco. I now have ample justification for telling them bull. Thanks everybody. Jay ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] heat fins popping loose on WS-X67xx cards
We've had one of those, was accepted for RMA without any further questions through channel partner. On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:21 PM, Tassos Chatzithomaoglou ach...@forthnet.gr wrote: One year after the original post, i finally met the same issue on a 6748-GE-TX card. Anyone got any complaints from Cisco about RMAing it? -- Tassos Jay Ford wrote on 29/05/2009 16:58: On Fri, 29 May 2009, Tassos Chatzithomaoglou wrote: Can someone please take a photo and upload it somewhere, so everyone else can better understand what exactly is the issue you're talking about? Take a look at: http://myweb.uiowa.edu/jnford/images/IMG_0589.jpg http://myweb.uiowa.edu/jnford/images/IMG_0590.jpg The first shows the Z1 socket in the background with the fuzzy loop in the foreground. The second shows the heat fin loop in the foregraound with the socket in the background. The loop is supposed to be in the Z1 socket. Based on the responses I've received it seems that this is a fairly common failure due to a design flaw. I got the usual that's strange; nobody else is having this problem from Cisco. I now have ample justification for telling them bull. Thanks everybody. Jay ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/ ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] heat fins popping loose on WS-X67xx cards
That's a fairly common (but seems to me stupid) design. Basically a U shaped jumper block used to anchor springs holding a heat sink in place. My home desktop motherboard had one pull out just like that. I superglued it back in place and the repair outlasted the rest of the board (a few years). Capacitors on the board ended up failing forcing me to upgrade. I don't understand why they don't bend the legs under the circuit board to make pulling out less likely...or even do that and then either weld/solder them together. On Thu, 15 Apr 2010, Tassos Chatzithomaoglou wrote: One year after the original post, i finally met the same issue on a 6748-GE-TX card. Anyone got any complaints from Cisco about RMAing it? -- Tassos Jay Ford wrote on 29/05/2009 16:58: On Fri, 29 May 2009, Tassos Chatzithomaoglou wrote: Can someone please take a photo and upload it somewhere, so everyone else can better understand what exactly is the issue you're talking about? Take a look at: http://myweb.uiowa.edu/jnford/images/IMG_0589.jpg http://myweb.uiowa.edu/jnford/images/IMG_0590.jpg The first shows the Z1 socket in the background with the fuzzy loop in the foreground. The second shows the heat fin loop in the foregraound with the socket in the background. The loop is supposed to be in the Z1 socket. Based on the responses I've received it seems that this is a fairly common failure due to a design flaw. I got the usual that's strange; nobody else is having this problem from Cisco. I now have ample justification for telling them bull. Thanks everybody. Jay ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/ -- Jon Lewis | I route Senior Network Engineer | therefore you are Atlantic Net| _ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_ ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] heat fins popping loose on WS-X67xx cards
If cisco gives you grief I'd love to hear about it. On 4/15/10, Tassos Chatzithomaoglou ach...@forthnet.gr wrote: One year after the original post, i finally met the same issue on a 6748-GE-TX card. Anyone got any complaints from Cisco about RMAing it? -- Tassos Jay Ford wrote on 29/05/2009 16:58: On Fri, 29 May 2009, Tassos Chatzithomaoglou wrote: Can someone please take a photo and upload it somewhere, so everyone else can better understand what exactly is the issue you're talking about? Take a look at: http://myweb.uiowa.edu/jnford/images/IMG_0589.jpg http://myweb.uiowa.edu/jnford/images/IMG_0590.jpg The first shows the Z1 socket in the background with the fuzzy loop in the foreground. The second shows the heat fin loop in the foregraound with the socket in the background. The loop is supposed to be in the Z1 socket. Based on the responses I've received it seems that this is a fairly common failure due to a design flaw. I got the usual that's strange; nobody else is having this problem from Cisco. I now have ample justification for telling them bull. Thanks everybody. Jay ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/ -- Sent from my mobile device -- Eric Cables ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] heat fins popping loose on WS-X67xx cards
I used to do tech work and hand off stuff like this to our repair guy...messed up heat sinks like this one, along with dead memory, were problems that I saw more than anything else. If Cisco doesn't take care of it, hit me off list and I'll put you in touch with someone that can do repair in your area (for a price of course). -- Stephen F. Cobb • Senior Sales Engineer CCNA/CCDA/DCNID/ATSP Telecoast Communications, LLC • Santa Barbara, CA o 877.677.1182 x272 • c 760.807.0570 • f 805.618.1610 aim/yahoo telecoaststephen On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 7:03 AM, Eric Cables ecab...@gmail.com wrote: If cisco gives you grief I'd love to hear about it. On 4/15/10, Tassos Chatzithomaoglou ach...@forthnet.gr wrote: One year after the original post, i finally met the same issue on a 6748-GE-TX card. Anyone got any complaints from Cisco about RMAing it? -- Tassos Jay Ford wrote on 29/05/2009 16:58: On Fri, 29 May 2009, Tassos Chatzithomaoglou wrote: Can someone please take a photo and upload it somewhere, so everyone else can better understand what exactly is the issue you're talking about? Take a look at: http://myweb.uiowa.edu/jnford/images/IMG_0589.jpg http://myweb.uiowa.edu/jnford/images/IMG_0590.jpg The first shows the Z1 socket in the background with the fuzzy loop in the foreground. The second shows the heat fin loop in the foregraound with the socket in the background. The loop is supposed to be in the Z1 socket. Based on the responses I've received it seems that this is a fairly common failure due to a design flaw. I got the usual that's strange; nobody else is having this problem from Cisco. I now have ample justification for telling them bull. Thanks everybody. Jay ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/ -- Sent from my mobile device -- Eric Cables ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/ ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] heat fins popping loose on WS-X67xx cards
The first shows the Z1 socket in the background with the fuzzy loop in the foreground. The second shows the heat fin loop in the foregraound with the socket in the background. The loop is supposed to be in the Z1 socket. Just unpacked a WS-X6748-GE-TX and found a loose jumped in the bag. Thanks to this thread, gave a slight push to the heat fin and off it came, with jumper Z1 suspiciously absent. Based on the responses I've received it seems that this is a fairly common failure due to a design flaw. I got the usual that's strange; nobody else is having this problem from Cisco. I now have ample justification for telling them bull. Indeed. Given the number of instances cited here alone, I'm really surprised there hasn't been a field notice. ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] heat fins popping loose on WS-X67xx cards
Hi, * Tassos Chatzithomaoglou ach...@forthnet.gr wrote: Can someone please take a photo and upload it somewhere, so everyone else can better understand what exactly is the issue you're talking about? http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/1692/cimg1691r.jpg http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/1563/cimg1685u.jpg http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/7126/cimg1686.jpg http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/39/cimg1690.jpg Same happened to us. I was pulling out a 6748 SFP blade to relocate it and was confronted with what you can see in the pictures above. The card was working fine up to this point. Instead of RMAing it, we decided to reattach it by applying heat conductive glue to the heat sink and the chip. Christian ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] heat fins popping loose on WS-X67xx cards
On Fri, 29 May 2009, Tassos Chatzithomaoglou wrote: Can someone please take a photo and upload it somewhere, so everyone else can better understand what exactly is the issue you're talking about? Take a look at: http://myweb.uiowa.edu/jnford/images/IMG_0589.jpg http://myweb.uiowa.edu/jnford/images/IMG_0590.jpg The first shows the Z1 socket in the background with the fuzzy loop in the foreground. The second shows the heat fin loop in the foregraound with the socket in the background. The loop is supposed to be in the Z1 socket. Based on the responses I've received it seems that this is a fairly common failure due to a design flaw. I got the usual that's strange; nobody else is having this problem from Cisco. I now have ample justification for telling them bull. Thanks everybody. Jay ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] heat fins popping loose on WS-X67xx cards
I'm trying to determine if this is a systemic problem or just a fluke. I have had it occur on a couple of (older) 67xx cards. Looking at the board, it appeared that the solder joint holding the loop had the classic appearance of a cold solder joint (it looked brittle and crystallized). I have this vague suspicion (and it is only a suspicion) that the combination of the large hole and the large wire (as opposed to a SMT device) requires more heat/time than the soldering equipment is/was providing.(*) I have not seen any recent version cards with the problem, so I presumed that the manufacturing defect was corrected at some point (turned up the heat?) Gary (*) I have a further suspicion that the conversion to ROHS compliant solder could have had an impact on this issue. Lead-free solder usually requires higher temperatures for proper bonding (depends on the particular solder). ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] heat fins popping loose on WS-X67xx cards
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 6:58 AM, Jay Ford jay-f...@uiowa.edu wrote: Based on the responses I've received it seems that this is a fairly common failure due to a design flaw. I got the usual that's strange; nobody else is having this problem from Cisco. I now have ample justification for telling them bull. This is a total design flaw. I've never seen it on Cisco gear, but came across the exact same failure while replacing an IBM x3550 mainboard last night. (MT: 79784AU) The failure mode looks exactly like cimg1690.jpg posted by Christian: dry/brittle/crystalline looking joint on the horseshoe jumper. There's barely any solder there. I can't imagine it's a good idea to design a joint which serves as a structural element when the applied force is normal to the board, along the axis of the joint. Can anyone else name a situation where this is done (and it doesn't fall apart...)? I can't think of one. Anyone know who does the ODM work for Cisco for these boards? The IBM board I mentioned earlier is ca. 2007, made by ASUS. I can't believe that firms started using this brilliant idea independently of each other. -Nick ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
[c-nsp] heat fins popping loose on WS-X67xx cards
In the past 9 days I've found that 3 of our Catalyst 6500 WS-X67xx cards (2 WS-X6748-GE-TX 1 WS-X6748-SFP) had dislodged heat fins. The fins are supposed to be tethered by a spring hooked into a small wire loop which seems to be soldered onto the circuit board. In the case at hand the wire loop pulls out of the board the heat fin then flops around free in 1 case the wire loop was rattling around on the card. Not good. I'm trying to determine if this is a systemic problem or just a fluke. It seems like a design flaw, with the spring being too much for the soldered wire loop. Has anybody else seen this? If so, with how many cards of what types? Jay Ford, Network Engineering Group, Information Technology Services University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA 52242 email: jay-f...@uiowa.edu, phone: 319-335-, fax: 319-335-2951 ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] heat fins popping loose on WS-X67xx cards
On Thu, 2009-05-28 at 11:19 -0500, Jay Ford wrote: In the past 9 days I've found that 3 of our Catalyst 6500 WS-X67xx cards (2 WS-X6748-GE-TX 1 WS-X6748-SFP) had dislodged heat fins. The fins are supposed to be tethered by a spring hooked into a small wire loop which seems to be soldered onto the circuit board. In the case at hand the wire loop pulls out of the board the heat fin then flops around free in 1 case the wire loop was rattling around on the card. Not good. I'm trying to determine if this is a systemic problem or just a fluke. It seems like a design flaw, with the spring being too much for the soldered wire loop. Has anybody else seen this? If so, with how many cards of what types? We had this happen to three 6748-GE-TX cards. We discovered it while performing some physical relocations/upgrades. It might have happened to other modules that we didn't look at. For some reason we decided to let one of the systems run, just to see what effect it had. FWIW it has had no problems for ~1 year now. It was no problem RMAing them. Regards, Peter ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] heat fins popping loose on WS-X67xx cards
On Thu, 28 May 2009, Jay Ford wrote: I'm trying to determine if this is a systemic problem or just a fluke. It seems like a design flaw, with the spring being too much for the soldered wire loop. Has anybody else seen this? If so, with how many cards of what types? I've seen this sort of failure on the chipset heatsink on a Soyo P4 motherboard. I used superglue to 're-anchor' the wire loop into the motherboard. The repair outlasted the motherboard (which eventually died due to bad [expanding leaking] capacitors). -- Jon Lewis | I route Senior Network Engineer | therefore you are Atlantic Net| _ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_ ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] heat fins popping loose on WS-X67xx cards
Hi Jay, I've RMA'ed at least one board and could suspect other boards with the same flaw, so I believe this might be either a design fault or simply a faulty batch. __ Med venlig hilsen / Kind regards Lars Lystrup Christensen Director of Engineering, CCIE(tm) #20292 Danske Telecom A/S Sundkrogsgade 13, 4 2100 København Ø -Original Message- From: cisco-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net [mailto:cisco-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Jay Ford Sent: 28. maj 2009 18:19 To: cisco-nsp Subject: [c-nsp] heat fins popping loose on WS-X67xx cards In the past 9 days I've found that 3 of our Catalyst 6500 WS-X67xx cards (2 WS-X6748-GE-TX 1 WS-X6748-SFP) had dislodged heat fins. The fins are supposed to be tethered by a spring hooked into a small wire loop which seems to be soldered onto the circuit board. In the case at hand the wire loop pulls out of the board the heat fin then flops around free in 1 case the wire loop was rattling around on the card. Not good. I'm trying to determine if this is a systemic problem or just a fluke. It seems like a design flaw, with the spring being too much for the soldered wire loop. Has anybody else seen this? If so, with how many cards of what types? Jay Ford, Network Engineering Group, Information Technology Services University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA 52242 email: jay-f...@uiowa.edu, phone: 319-335-, fax: 319-335-2951 ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/ ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] heat fins popping loose on WS-X67xx cards
In the past 9 days I've found that 3 of our Catalyst 6500 WS-X67xx cards (2 WS-X6748-GE-TX 1 WS-X6748-SFP) had dislodged heat fins. The fins are supposed to be tethered by a spring hooked into a small wire loop which seems to be soldered onto the circuit board. In the case at hand the wire loop pulls out of the board the heat fin then flops around free in 1 case the wire loop was rattling around on the card. Not good. I'm trying to determine if this is a systemic problem or just a fluke. It seems like a design flaw, with the spring being too much for the soldered wire loop. Has anybody else seen this? If so, with how many cards of what types? It sounds like a design flaw. The spring force on the loop is upward. Heat from the chip is conducted to the fins, the spring, and the loop which softens the solder. Tension on the loop pulls it out. They probably need to come up with a different means of attaching the loop, maybe a stamped part with a base on the underside of the board, or at the least use a high-melting-point solder for that attachment point. -- -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - j...@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] heat fins popping loose on WS-X67xx cards
Can someone please take a photo and upload it somewhere, so everyone else can better understand what exactly is the issue you're talking about? -- Tassos Jay Hennigan wrote on 29/05/2009 00:23: In the past 9 days I've found that 3 of our Catalyst 6500 WS-X67xx cards (2 WS-X6748-GE-TX 1 WS-X6748-SFP) had dislodged heat fins. The fins are supposed to be tethered by a spring hooked into a small wire loop which seems to be soldered onto the circuit board. In the case at hand the wire loop pulls out of the board the heat fin then flops around free in 1 case the wire loop was rattling around on the card. Not good. I'm trying to determine if this is a systemic problem or just a fluke. It seems like a design flaw, with the spring being too much for the soldered wire loop. Has anybody else seen this? If so, with how many cards of what types? It sounds like a design flaw. The spring force on the loop is upward. Heat from the chip is conducted to the fins, the spring, and the loop which softens the solder. Tension on the loop pulls it out. They probably need to come up with a different means of attaching the loop, maybe a stamped part with a base on the underside of the board, or at the least use a high-melting-point solder for that attachment point. ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] heat fins popping loose on WS-X67xx cards
We experienced the same problem on a number of 6748 blades, and requested failure analysis from Cisco (report below). We were performing a chassis swap, and the heatsink/fin/whatever literally fell off upon card removal, which led to the discovery of the faulty bracket on multiple cards -- but not all cards. Here's the failure analysis report: *FA case Number: FA-0063752 Fault Isolated The customer reported that the line cards had faulty Heatsink latches. The customer's symptom was duplicated. The line cards failed visual inspection. The line card with serial number REMOVED had a Z1 latch became detached. The Z1 came off and caused the heatsink to become loose. No damage was done to the baseboard. The line card with serial number REMOVED had both Z1 and Z2 missing. The latches were not on the card, which caused the Heatsink to move around. Only some minor scratches were observed on the baseboard. This case was closed as fault isolated due to the detached latches on the boards. MM/CG* -- Eric Cables On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Jay Ford jay-f...@uiowa.edu wrote: In the past 9 days I've found that 3 of our Catalyst 6500 WS-X67xx cards (2 WS-X6748-GE-TX 1 WS-X6748-SFP) had dislodged heat fins. The fins are supposed to be tethered by a spring hooked into a small wire loop which seems to be soldered onto the circuit board. In the case at hand the wire loop pulls out of the board the heat fin then flops around free in 1 case the wire loop was rattling around on the card. Not good. I'm trying to determine if this is a systemic problem or just a fluke. It seems like a design flaw, with the spring being too much for the soldered wire loop. Has anybody else seen this? If so, with how many cards of what types? Jay Ford, Network Engineering Group, Information Technology Services University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA 52242 email: jay-f...@uiowa.edu, phone: 319-335-, fax: 319-335-2951 ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/ ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] heat fins popping loose on WS-X67xx cards
On Fri, 29 May 2009, Tassos Chatzithomaoglou wrote: Can someone please take a photo and upload it somewhere, so everyone else can better understand what exactly is the issue you're talking about? Pardon the crappy cellphone pic...but http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/heatsink.jpg The anchor points (at least on this motherboard) basically look like jumper posts that have been joined with an arch. The heatsink is held in place by spring tension against the four anchors. Just one anchor failing results in the heatsink popping up off the chip and in my case resulted in very frequent system crashes. -- Jon Lewis | I route Senior Network Engineer | therefore you are Atlantic Net| _ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_ ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
