Re: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

No two blade prop will do very well in reverse although I would get a geared 
one so that you can be sure that it opened.
 
If you race, the lowest drag 2 blade demonstrated by tests in Yachting magazine 
was a Gori--which I have used for several years without problems.
 
It takes a few seconds running in reverse to start 'biting' and moving the boat 
but she will move the boat. Once the boat is moving, 
you start to get some flow over the rudder and can actually steer.

Just be sure you have reasonable room around the boat when you go to reverse.

In my case, I coast to almost a dead stop, put it in reverse and rev the engine 
to get her moving
in reverse and then steer her toward the slip with judicious use of low 
throttle in reverse or neutral. 

Without serious wind or tides, this method works for me--she only goes back 
into forward to stop her in the slip.
If something messes up this scheme, back to open water and repeat!

Maneuvering in close quarters between reverse and forward with several seconds 
delay is to be avoided with any folding prop IMHO.

Charlie Nelson
C 36 XL/kcb
Water Phantom
 
 
 
 
 
cenel...@aol.com

 
 
-Original Message-
From: dwight veinot via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: dwight veinot 
Sent: Tue, Dec 22, 2015 9:37 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4



Agree with Bill...i don't have one but a friend on a similar size boat to 
Alianna does and he liked it..





Dwight Veinot

C 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

d.ve...@bellaliant.net





On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 9:40 AM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
 wrote:

I am surprised you don't have ten different suggestions already.
So I will just tell you to get yourself a nice 2 blade Flex-O-Fold and don't
look back.
Hard to go wrong there.



Bill Coleman
C 39 Erie, PA


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joe at
Zialater via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 11:58 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Joe at Zialater
Subject: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4

My 1975 30-1,  Zia is up for a nice Christmas gift this year - a folding
prop.

Any recommendations for a good folder that will still give me decent
performance in forward and reverse?  I don't know the current two blade prop
specs but she is being pushed by a smooth running Atomic 4.

Thanks for any input - and happy holidays!

Joe Boyle
Zia
Annapolis, MD
j...@zialater.com




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Re: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

I had a Martec for our A4 powered boat and HATED it. For racing the low drag 
was nice, but that is the best thing I could say about it. Reverse was only a 
theory with that prop. It was dumpsterized about 18 years ago.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina C 35 MK I

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Charlie 
Nelson via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 10:10 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4

No two blade prop will do very well in reverse although I would get a geared 
one so that you can be sure that it opened.

If you race, the lowest drag 2 blade demonstrated by tests in Yachting magazine 
was a Gori--which I have used for several years without problems.

It takes a few seconds running in reverse to start 'biting' and moving the boat 
but she will move the boat. Once the boat is moving,
you start to get some flow over the rudder and can actually steer.

Just be sure you have reasonable room around the boat when you go to reverse.

In my case, I coast to almost a dead stop, put it in reverse and rev the engine 
to get her moving
in reverse and then steer her toward the slip with judicious use of low 
throttle in reverse or neutral.

Without serious wind or tides, this method works for me--she only goes back 
into forward to stop her in the slip.
If something messes up this scheme, back to open water and repeat!

Maneuvering in close quarters between reverse and forward with several seconds 
delay is to be avoided with any folding prop IMHO.

Charlie Nelson
C 36 XL/kcb
Water Phantom





cenel...@aol.com


-Original Message-
From: dwight veinot via CnC-List 
>
To: cnc-list >
Cc: dwight veinot >
Sent: Tue, Dec 22, 2015 9:37 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4
Agree with Bill...i don't have one but a friend on a similar size boat to 
Alianna does and he liked it..

Dwight Veinot
C 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net


On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 9:40 AM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
> wrote:
I am surprised you don't have ten different suggestions already.
So I will just tell you to get yourself a nice 2 blade Flex-O-Fold and don't
look back.
Hard to go wrong there.



Bill Coleman
C 39 Erie, PA

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On 
Behalf Of Joe at
Zialater via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 11:58 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Joe at Zialater
Subject: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4

My 1975 30-1,  Zia is up for a nice Christmas gift this year - a folding
prop.

Any recommendations for a good folder that will still give me decent
performance in forward and reverse?  I don't know the current two blade prop
specs but she is being pushed by a smooth running Atomic 4.

Thanks for any input - and happy holidays!

Joe Boyle
Zia
Annapolis, MD
j...@zialater.com




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Re: Stus-List Lines led forward

[Bruno Lachance via CnC-List]

My layout for club racing / cruising (C 33 mkII)
 
The boat came with double deck organizer, plenty of clutches and four winches 
at the pit (one Barient 21 ST, two 18, one 10)
 
Main, outaul, Cunningham, vang, first and second reef, jib and spin halyards 
and baby stay, are all led aft. 
 
BUT, i added a spinlock XTS on the mast for the main allowing me to easily 
hoist without messing with the lazyjacks and quickly hook the "reef bone" at 
the mast, tensioning the halyard and reef lines at pit afterward . I also added 
a Spinlock XAS (less tension) on the starboard side of the mast of spin halyard 
for a quick hoist and take down in light winds. I have the choice to leave the 
mast cluthes open to keep control of the halyards at the cockpit. Pole lift is 
at the mast too.
 
The lines aft allow me to easily and quickly adjust everything from the cockpit 
to tune the sails without having to run to the mast. i like this setup for 
racing and for cruising singlehanded.
 
Happy holidays everybody. Don't forget to wacht the Sydney Hobart start! :)
 
Bruno Lachance
Bécassine, '87 C 33 mkII
New-Richmond, Qc
 

 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 09:17:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Stus-List Lines led forward
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
CC: colt...@verizon.net














MY layout – 

SB, Spinnaker and Jib halyard on mast, Main and Cunningham led
back to clutches.

Port, Spinnaker led back to clutch, also a cam cleat on mast.
Mostly bear away sets. Jib halyard at mast, rarely used. Main Outhaul, Vang, &
first reef also led back to cockpit.

As someone mentioned, mostly we use spinnakers in fairly light
air – and, at least in my experience, it is blowing like snot when you want to
take it down!  So, having the halyard back at the cockpit allows someone less
talented to handle the drop.

 



Bill Coleman

C 39 Erie, PA



 





 









 









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Re: Stus-List Winter discussions - depth sounder offset

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

For us the tide range is only 2 feet or so normally and the charts are all done 
for low tide, so as long as the depthfinder is > or = to the charted depth, 
things are good. If not, either I am lost or the chart is wrong. There are a 
couple of places near me where I am aground in what should be 8 feet of water.  
When Kent Narrows is too long between dredging I go through with 0.1 feet more 
than the reading I run aground at.
Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight 
veinot via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 9:33 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: dwight veinot
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winter discussions - depth sounder offset

Yea but even with that we need to account for tides...the charts show depths at 
low tide, so I like my depth sounder to indicate actual depth from the water 
surface, and I usually use a positive offset of 2 feet which is as close as I 
measured with maybe a couple inches of comfort factor between the transducer 
and the water line when on the hard...no harm in your way and more comfort 
factor... it's only luck if the sounder gives the same depth as the charts 
because the charts show minimum depth over the contour region, there could be 
deeper spots within the contour area, that's good for us

Dwight Veinot
C 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net

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Stus-List folding vs geared folding prop

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Interesting discussion.  We have a Martec elliptical folding prop on a shaft on 
Persistence.  Our friends with the C "Prospector" have a geared folding 
prop on a saildrive.  When we arrived at in Cape Breton my friend Andy (owner 
of Prospector) wanted to move Persistence and he did it by coming in alongside 
a pier in fwd and then reversing to slow and stop.  I was amused to note that 
he did not put the boat in neutral or reverse until quite near to the dock and 
then when in reverse the boat kept going right past the dock.It was his 
first experience with a Martec folding prop.

Interestingly on their previous boat "Dry Red" a C 25-1 with OMC Saildrive 
and folding prop there was good reverse and also with Prospector with the 
geared prop there is great reverse.  With Persistence OTOH I prefer to come 
into the finger in reverse and use FWD to stop the boat when docked.  It takes 
quite a bit to get the boat moving in reverse but then it steer just fine as 
noted by others.

I have obtained a quote on a Flex-o-fold prop.  It might be quite some time 
before I spend that much though as it is not cheap and the Max prop is even 
more expensive ...

Mike

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jake 
Brodersen via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 3:23 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jake Brodersen
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4

Jonathan,

I think Charlie meant to criticize two-bladed FOLDING propellers as having poor 
reverse power.  The Max prop isn't a folding prop, is it?

I have a two-bladed Martec and I get along just fine with it.  It takes a good 
shot of throttle to get some momentum in reverse, but then it backs up just 
fine.

Jake

Jake Brodersen
C 35 Mk-III "Midnight Mistress"
Hampton VA



-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Indigo via 
CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 10:53
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Indigo 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4

 "No two blade prop will do very well in reverse although I would get a geared 
one so that you can be sure that it opened."

Have to disagree with this statement. My 35-III with a two blade Max-prop goes 
very well in reverse. In fact in tight situations I often prefer to extract 
myself in reverse!

--
Jonathan
Indigo C 35III
SOUTHPORT CT


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Re: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4

[Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List]

My (Feathering, not folding) Max Prop  2 blade is excellent in reverse as
well. Of course, you should look at the oft cited Practical Sailor report
on folding and feathering props for more objective opinions. Should be easy
to find

Kevin
30-2
PDX

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 9:32 AM Michael Brown via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I have a Gori 2 blade 11.5 x 8 on Windburn, a 77 30-1 with an Atomic 4 (
> Stevedore ).
> My guess is that at 8 it is over pitched but 11.5 x 8 appears to be the
> smallest standard
> Gori prop size. I can get to about 6.2 kts into light weather, and can tow
> another 10,000 lb
> boat into waves at 5 kts. Reverse is fine though full power at a
> standstill can invoke a lot
> of prop walk.
>
> The advantage of being over pitched is that during light motor sailing the
> Atomic 4 is just
> above idle, quiet and smooth.
>
> I have no complaints, though I usually am under auxiliary only coming in
> and out of the club.
> If your usage included days of motoring into current and waves and as a
> cruiser you are
> carrying more weight ( Windburn is pretty light for racing ) then I would
> be concerned about
> the 8 pitch. When I spoke with a Gori rep at the Toronto boat show he
> mentioned they can
> make the props at different pitches.
>
> Michael Brown
> Windburn
> C 30-1
>
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 10:10:28 -0500
> From: cenel...@aol.com
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4
>
> Message-ID: <151ca3dd4c9-520f-...@webprd-m99.mail.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
> No two blade prop will do very well in reverse although I would get a
> geared one so that you can be sure that it opened.
>
> If you race, the lowest drag 2 blade demonstrated by tests in Yachting
> magazine was a Gori--which I have used for several years without problems.
>
> It takes a few seconds running in reverse to start 'biting' and moving the
> boat but she will move the boat. Once the boat is moving,
> you start to get some flow over the rudder and can actually steer.
>
> Just be sure you have reasonable room around the boat when you go to
> reverse.
>
> In my case, I coast to almost a dead stop, put it in reverse and rev the
> engine to get her moving
> in reverse and then steer her toward the slip with judicious use of low
> throttle in reverse or neutral.
>
> Without serious wind or tides, this method works for me--she only goes
> back into forward to stop her in the slip.
> If something messes up this scheme, back to open water and repeat!
>
> Maneuvering in close quarters between reverse and forward with several
> seconds delay is to be avoided with any folding prop IMHO.
>
> Charlie Nelson
> C 36 XL/kcb
> Water Phantom
>
> cenel...@aol.com
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Welcome to a great resource! [was "Lines led forward"]

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

Hello again Fred,

Kind words indeed and thank you. I did work for many years at Edson and the 
company as a whole has a wonderful philosophy towards service relations, 
probably because the company is comprised of enthusiasts that genuinely like 
their customers and share their passion towards boats .  

 

Several years ago I accepted a new position in product development and 
marketing for Novabraid ropes so if I can ever be helpful with running rigging 
questions or concerns, feel free to hit me up.  Regrettably, I don’t have the 
extensive data base available for C Yachts for running rigging as I did with 
Edson steering gear, but those resources are available on a variety of sites or 
can be gleaned from the rig dimensions.   I can certainly help with rope 
applications, whether from my product assortment or from the wide array of 
quality lines on the market today from a variety of manufacturers.

 

I’m lucky in that the boat I’m purchasing is for the most part, un-molested and 
stock.  This one is sort of a “barn find” that is just coming out of 
hibernation…  Let’s just see if that vintage Raytheon 1200 radar (looks like it 
came off the USS Missouri) or the Magellan Loran C (GPS compatible!) can earn 
their keep at the nav station!

 

So as all the systems come alive, (please let there be no critters, living or 
dead, inhabiting the storage areas..) there will be questions.   Never owning a 
boat with this much plumbing, hoses, wires, and switches,  I’m sure my name 
will crop up numerous times in the “Dazed and Confused” thread of this list and 
I thank you all for sharing your opinions and advice.  And I wish you all a 
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Best regards,

Chuck Gilchrest

S/V Half Magic

1975 25 Mk 1

 

S/V Orion  (new name forthcoming)

1983 Landfall 35 

Padanaram, MA

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Frederick G 
Street via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 1:56 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Frederick G Street 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Welcome to a great resource! [was "Lines led forward"]

 

To those who aren’t aware, I believe Chuck worked at Edson in years past; and 
been a great resource for technically-related steering issues on our old boats. 
 In fact, every customer-service related call I’ve made to Edson over the years 
(and I believe Chuck has been involved in more than one…) has been exceptional, 
and they’ve gone out of their way to support me, first on my 1981 30mkI and now 
my even older 1979 LF38.

 

So Chuck, welcome; and I hope we can repay the favors.

 

— Fred


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

 

On Dec 22, 2015, at 7:28 AM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
 > wrote:

 

Hi All,

I’m purchasing a Landfall 35 that has a brand new gennaker but no sock or 
snuffer.  From several forum posts, I’m reading that using a sock can be a bit 
challenging and can easily foul midway through the hoist or douse if care isn’t 
taken to keep lines clear.  Any recommendations?  Can one assume that the ATN 
or North products work equally well (or poorly)?   Most of the sailhandling 
with be done double handed with the help of my teenage son, thus the reason for 
the post.  The main and jib halyards are run aft to the cockpit, but I believe 
the spin halyard stays up by the mast, something I may likely change.  The new 
boat is on the hard, mast down and there aren’t any winches on the mast (only 
on the boom for outhaul and reefing).  From the factory, this boat has two 
dedicated halyard winches and cleats (not clutches) on the coach roof with pass 
through holes in the cockpit coaming for the main and jib halyards, but not 
seeing anything obvious for the spin halyard.

Thanks in advance for any feedback from sock users…

Chuck Gilchrest

S/V Half Magic

1975 25 Mk1

 

S/V Orion

1983 Landfall 35

Padanaram, MA

 

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Re: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4

[William Walker via CnC-List]

Ditto my Max prop. 
Bill Walker
CnC 36
Pentwater, Mi

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Tuesday, December 22, 2015 Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List 
 wrote:

My (Feathering, not folding) Max Prop  2 blade is excellent in reverse as well. 
Of course, you should look at the oft cited Practical Sailor report on folding 
and feathering props for more objective opinions. Should be easy to find


Kevin

30-2

PDX


On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 9:32 AM Michael Brown via CnC-List 
 wrote:

I have a Gori 2 blade 11.5 x 8 on Windburn, a 77 30-1 with an Atomic 4 ( 
Stevedore ).
My guess is that at 8 it is over pitched but 11.5 x 8 appears to be the 
smallest standard
Gori prop size. I can get to about 6.2 kts into light weather, and can tow 
another 10,000 lb
boat into waves at 5 kts. Reverse is fine though full power at a standstill can 
invoke a lot
of prop walk.

The advantage of being over pitched is that during light motor sailing the 
Atomic 4 is just
above idle, quiet and smooth. 

I have no complaints, though I usually am under auxiliary only coming in and 
out of the club.
If your usage included days of motoring into current and waves and as a cruiser 
you are
carrying more weight ( Windburn is pretty light for racing ) then I would be 
concerned about
the 8 pitch. When I spoke with a Gori rep at the Toronto boat show he mentioned 
they can
make the props at different pitches.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 10:10:28 -0500 

From: cenel...@aol.com 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 

Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4 

Message-ID: <151ca3dd4c9-520f-...@webprd-m99.mail.aol.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 



No two blade prop will do very well in reverse although I would get a geared 
one so that you can be sure that it opened. 

If you race, the lowest drag 2 blade demonstrated by tests in Yachting magazine 
was a Gori--which I have used for several years without problems. 

It takes a few seconds running in reverse to start 'biting' and moving the boat 
but she will move the boat. Once the boat is moving, 
you start to get some flow over the rudder and can actually steer. 

Just be sure you have reasonable room around the boat when you go to reverse. 

In my case, I coast to almost a dead stop, put it in reverse and rev the engine 
to get her moving 
in reverse and then steer her toward the slip with judicious use of low 
throttle in reverse or neutral. 

Without serious wind or tides, this method works for me--she only goes back 
into forward to stop her in the slip. 
If something messes up this scheme, back to open water and repeat! 

Maneuvering in close quarters between reverse and forward with several seconds 
delay is to be avoided with any folding prop IMHO. 

Charlie Nelson 
C 36 XL/kcb 
Water Phantom 

cenel...@aol.com 

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Stus-List (no subject)

[Dave via CnC-List]

Pretty pleased with two blade folding gori on my 33-2.  


st [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joe at
Zialater via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 11:58 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Joe at Zialater
Subject: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4

My 1975 30-1,  Zia is up for a nice Christmas gift this year - a folding
prop.  

Any recommendations for a good folder that will still give me decent
performance in forward and reverse?  I don't know the current two blade prop
specs but she is being pushed by a smooth running Atomic 4.

Thanks for any input - and happy holidays!

Joe Boyle
Zia
An

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Re: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Never had an issue with my Martec.  Guess I just don't know any different.
:)  <-smiley face

Dennis C.

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 1:22 PM, Jake Brodersen via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Jonathan,
>
> I think Charlie meant to criticize two-bladed FOLDING propellers as having
> poor reverse power.  The Max prop isn't a folding prop, is it?
>
> I have a two-bladed Martec and I get along just fine with it.  It takes a
> good shot of throttle to get some momentum in reverse, but then it backs up
> just fine.
>
> Jake
>
> Jake Brodersen
> C 35 Mk-III "Midnight Mistress"
> Hampton VA
>
> 
>
>
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Stus-List Folding props

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

I was not referring to feathering props. As I understand them, they are 
designed to be about equal in forward or reverse.
My former Max-Prop 3 blade feathering prop was excellent and relatively quickly 
got the boat going in reverse.
 
Any geared folding 2-blade prop will get a boat moving in reverse--just not 
very efficiently--especially if it is optimized for forward motion
and minimum drag when folded.
 
The time it takes between putting her into reverse and actually moving backward 
with flow over the rudder is what can take several seconds with a folder..
 
If other things are happening nearby (current, wind, pilings, etc.), these few 
seconds can seem like a very long time!.
 
Charlie Nelson
C 36 XL/kcb 
Water Phantom

 
cenel...@aol.com

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Re: Stus-List Welcome to a great resource! [was "Lines led forward"]

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Chuck,

I talked to you or one of your colleagues at the Annapolis Boat Show.  I
hope you find a local dealer!

So you worked with our favorite yacht designer, Rob Ball!

Joel
35/3
Annapolis

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 3:15 PM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hello again Fred,
>
> Kind words indeed and thank you. I did work for many years at Edson and
> the company as a whole has a wonderful philosophy towards service
> relations, probably because the company is comprised of enthusiasts that
> genuinely like their customers and share their passion towards boats .
>
>
>
> Several years ago I accepted a new position in product development and
> marketing for Novabraid ropes so if I can ever be helpful with running
> rigging questions or concerns, feel free to hit me up.  Regrettably, I
> don’t have the extensive data base available for C Yachts for running
> rigging as I did with Edson steering gear, but those resources are
> available on a variety of sites or can be gleaned from the rig dimensions.
>   I can certainly help with rope applications, whether from my product
> assortment or from the wide array of quality lines on the market today from
> a variety of manufacturers.
>
>
>
> I’m lucky in that the boat I’m purchasing is for the most part,
> un-molested and stock.  This one is sort of a “barn find” that is just
> coming out of hibernation…  Let’s just see if that vintage Raytheon 1200
> radar (looks like it came off the USS Missouri) or the Magellan Loran C
> (GPS compatible!) can earn their keep at the nav station!
>
>
>
> So as all the systems come alive, (please let there be no critters, living
> or dead, inhabiting the storage areas..) there will be questions.   Never
> owning a boat with this much plumbing, hoses, wires, and switches,  I’m
> sure my name will crop up numerous times in the “Dazed and Confused” thread
> of this list and I thank you all for sharing your opinions and advice.  And
> I wish you all a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Chuck Gilchrest
>
> S/V Half Magic
>
> 1975 25 Mk 1
>
>
>
> S/V Orion  (new name forthcoming)
>
> 1983 Landfall 35
>
> Padanaram, MA
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
> *Frederick
> G Street via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 22, 2015 1:56 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Frederick G Street 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Welcome to a great resource! [was "Lines led
> forward"]
>
>
>
> To those who aren’t aware, I believe Chuck worked at Edson in years past;
> and been a great resource for technically-related steering issues on our
> old boats.  In fact, every customer-service related call I’ve made to Edson
> over the years (and I believe Chuck has been involved in more than one…)
> has been exceptional, and they’ve gone out of their way to support me,
> first on my 1981 30mkI and now my even older 1979 LF38.
>
>
>
> So Chuck, welcome; and I hope we can repay the favors.
>
>
>
> — Fred
>
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V *Oceanis* (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>
>
>
> On Dec 22, 2015, at 7:28 AM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I’m purchasing a Landfall 35 that has a brand new gennaker but no sock or
> snuffer.  From several forum posts, I’m reading that using a sock can be a
> bit challenging and can easily foul midway through the hoist or douse if
> care isn’t taken to keep lines clear.  Any recommendations?  Can one assume
> that the ATN or North products work equally well (or poorly)?   Most of the
> sailhandling with be done double handed with the help of my teenage son,
> thus the reason for the post.  The main and jib halyards are run aft to the
> cockpit, but I believe the spin halyard stays up by the mast, something I
> may likely change.  The new boat is on the hard, mast down and there aren’t
> any winches on the mast (only on the boom for outhaul and reefing).  From
> the factory, this boat has two dedicated halyard winches and cleats (not
> clutches) on the coach roof with pass through holes in the cockpit coaming
> for the main and jib halyards, but not seeing anything obvious for the spin
> halyard.
>
> Thanks in advance for any feedback from sock users…
>
> Chuck Gilchrest
>
> S/V Half Magic
>
> 1975 25 Mk1
>
>
>
> S/V Orion
>
> 1983 Landfall 35
>
> Padanaram, MA
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Welcome to a great resource! [was "Lines led forward"]

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

Thanks Joel,
Still working on getting a Naptown dealer for the rope.  Yes, fortunate to have 
worked and sailed with Rob Ball.  He's rather pleased with my new purchase.
Best,
Chuck Gilchrest

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 22, 2015, at 3:21 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Chuck,
> 
> I talked to you or one of your colleagues at the Annapolis Boat Show.  I hope 
> you find a local dealer!
> 
> So you worked with our favorite yacht designer, Rob Ball!  
> 
> Joel
> 35/3
> Annapolis
> 
>> On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 3:15 PM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> Hello again Fred,
>> 
>> Kind words indeed and thank you. I did work for many years at Edson and the 
>> company as a whole has a wonderful philosophy towards service relations, 
>> probably because the company is comprised of enthusiasts that genuinely like 
>> their customers and share their passion towards boats . 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Several years ago I accepted a new position in product development and 
>> marketing for Novabraid ropes so if I can ever be helpful with running 
>> rigging questions or concerns, feel free to hit me up.  Regrettably, I don’t 
>> have the extensive data base available for C Yachts for running rigging as 
>> I did with Edson steering gear, but those resources are available on a 
>> variety of sites or can be gleaned from the rig dimensions.   I can 
>> certainly help with rope applications, whether from my product assortment or 
>> from the wide array of quality lines on the market today from a variety of 
>> manufacturers.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I’m lucky in that the boat I’m purchasing is for the most part, un-molested 
>> and stock.  This one is sort of a “barn find” that is just coming out of 
>> hibernation…  Let’s just see if that vintage Raytheon 1200 radar (looks like 
>> it came off the USS Missouri) or the Magellan Loran C (GPS compatible!) can 
>> earn their keep at the nav station!
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> So as all the systems come alive, (please let there be no critters, living 
>> or dead, inhabiting the storage areas..) there will be questions.   Never 
>> owning a boat with this much plumbing, hoses, wires, and switches,  I’m sure 
>> my name will crop up numerous times in the “Dazed and Confused” thread of 
>> this list and I thank you all for sharing your opinions and advice.  And I 
>> wish you all a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Chuck Gilchrest
>> 
>> S/V Half Magic
>> 
>> 1975 25 Mk 1
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> S/V Orion  (new name forthcoming)
>> 
>> 1983 Landfall 35
>> 
>> Padanaram, MA
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Frederick 
>> G Street via CnC-List
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 1:56 PM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Cc: Frederick G Street 
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Welcome to a great resource! [was "Lines led forward"]
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> To those who aren’t aware, I believe Chuck worked at Edson in years past; 
>> and been a great resource for technically-related steering issues on our old 
>> boats.  In fact, every customer-service related call I’ve made to Edson over 
>> the years (and I believe Chuck has been involved in more than one…) has been 
>> exceptional, and they’ve gone out of their way to support me, first on my 
>> 1981 30mkI and now my even older 1979 LF38.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> So Chuck, welcome; and I hope we can repay the favors.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> — Fred
>> 
>> 
>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Dec 22, 2015, at 7:28 AM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I’m purchasing a Landfall 35 that has a brand new gennaker but no sock or 
>> snuffer.  From several forum posts, I’m reading that using a sock can be a 
>> bit challenging and can easily foul midway through the hoist or douse if 
>> care isn’t taken to keep lines clear.  Any recommendations?  Can one assume 
>> that the ATN or North products work equally well (or poorly)?   Most of the 
>> sailhandling with be done double handed with the help of my teenage son, 
>> thus the reason for the post.  The main and jib halyards are run aft to the 
>> cockpit, but I believe the spin halyard stays up by the mast, something I 
>> may likely change.  The new boat is on the hard, mast down and there aren’t 
>> any winches on the mast (only on the boom for outhaul and reefing).  From 
>> the factory, this boat has two dedicated halyard winches and cleats (not 
>> clutches) on the coach roof with pass through holes in the cockpit coaming 
>> for the main and jib halyards, but not seeing anything obvious for the spin 
>> halyard.
>> 
>> Thanks in advance for any feedback from sock users…
>> 
>> Chuck Gilchrest
>> 
>> S/V Half Magic
>> 
>> 1975 25 Mk1
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> S/V Orion
>> 
>> 1983 Landfall 35
>> 
>> Padanaram, MA
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 

Re: Stus-List Anchor locker lid attachment

[Dreuge via CnC-List]

Patrick,

I don’t think the piano hinges on your anchor locker are original C   I have 
6” SS strap hinges which are bolted through the cover and the deck.  I replaced 
mine old broken hinges with new ones, overfilling the old holes with thickened 
epoxy and re-drilling as typically suggested.  No problems with leaks.  Here’s 
a link to the hinge: http://www.marinepartdepot.com/hedustststhi2.html

-
Paul E.
1981 C 38 Landfall 
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

> On Dec 22, 2015, at 3:16 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 10:53:04 -0800
> From: Patrick Davin >
> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com " 
> >
> Subject: Stus-List Anchor locker lid attachment
> Message-ID:
>    >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Next up on my winter project list: reinforcing the anchor locker lid
> attachment.
> 
> C's are made really well for the most part, but I had a "what were they
> thinking???" moment this weekend. I was investigating the anchor locker lid
> hinge (which is screwed into a recessed area of the deck) because several
> screws have pulled out and there are rust stains. The surprise was it looks
> like the 15-20 screws for the hinge went into wood coring. Screws in wood
> core, in the wettest part of the boat! (the foredeck takes the most waves,
> and when at dock it's always humid from rain)
> 
> Pictures:
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BxfHpwssU_6NQThGM1AzTmxabU0=sharing
>  
> 
> 
> Has anyone else redone their anchor locker hinge? Can you confirm that it's
> cored, or am I on the crazy pills?
> 
> The reason I suspected core in the first place is that the lid hinge is
> about 1" outside of the deck area where all fiberglass was used along the
> toe rail. Tap testing / sounding doesn't reveal any significant
> differences, so I think the issue is very contained, surprisingly. It seems
> like if they had made the anchor locker an inch or so wider, they wouldn't
> have had to screw in to coring - but maybe the fiberglass layer isn't thick
> enough to fit the screws. Anyway, I'm thinking ream out some core from each
> hole, dry it out for 3-7 days (which may not be doable till the summer),
> fill with thickened epoxy and redrill.
> 
> -Patrick
> 1984 C Landfall 38
> Seattle, WA

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Re: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4

[ahycrace--- via CnC-List]

I agree I have a max prop 2 blade and reverse is just incredible it's like a 
tug boat is backing you up.

Gary Kolc
1976 38' MKII
Liberty
 Indigo via CnC-List  wrote: 
>  "No two blade prop will do very well in reverse although I would get a 
> geared one so that you can be sure that it opened."
> 
> Have to disagree with this statement. My 35-III with a two blade Max-prop 
> goes very well in reverse. In fact in tight situations I often prefer to 
> extract myself in reverse!
> 
> --
> Jonathan
> Indigo C 35III
> SOUTHPORT CT
> 
> > On Dec 22, 2015, at 10:10, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > No two blade prop will do very well in reverse although I would get a 
> > geared one so that you can be sure that it opened.
> 
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:
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>

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Re: Stus-List Anchor locker lid attachment

[Graham Collins via CnC-List]

My anchor locker and cockpit lockers are piano hinged, factory original.

Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C 35-III #11

On 2015-12-22 9:24 PM, Dreuge via CnC-List wrote:

Patrick,

I don’t think the piano hinges on your anchor locker are original C 
  I have 6” SS strap hinges which are bolted through the cover and the 
deck.  I replaced mine old broken hinges with new ones, overfilling 
the old holes with thickened epoxy and re-drilling as typically 
suggested.  No problems with leaks.  Here’s a link to the hinge: 
http://www.marinepartdepot.com/hedustststhi2.html


-
Paul E.
1981 C 38 Landfall
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

On Dec 22, 2015, at 3:16 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com 
 wrote:


Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 10:53:04 -0800
From: Patrick Davin >
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com " 
>

Subject: Stus-List Anchor locker lid attachment
Message-ID:
>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Next up on my winter project list: reinforcing the anchor locker lid
attachment.

C's are made really well for the most part, but I had a "what were they
thinking???" moment this weekend. I was investigating the anchor 
locker lid

hinge (which is screwed into a recessed area of the deck) because several
screws have pulled out and there are rust stains. The surprise was it 
looks

like the 15-20 screws for the hinge went into wood coring. Screws in wood
core, in the wettest part of the boat! (the foredeck takes the most 
waves,

and when at dock it's always humid from rain)

Pictures:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BxfHpwssU_6NQThGM1AzTmxabU0=sharing

Has anyone else redone their anchor locker hinge? Can you confirm 
that it's

cored, or am I on the crazy pills?

The reason I suspected core in the first place is that the lid hinge is
about 1" outside of the deck area where all fiberglass was used along the
toe rail. Tap testing / sounding doesn't reveal any significant
differences, so I think the issue is very contained, surprisingly. It 
seems
like if they had made the anchor locker an inch or so wider, they 
wouldn't
have had to screw in to coring - but maybe the fiberglass layer isn't 
thick
enough to fit the screws. Anyway, I'm thinking ream out some core 
from each

hole, dry it out for 3-7 days (which may not be doable till the summer),
fill with thickened epoxy and redrill.

-Patrick
1984 C Landfall 38
Seattle, WA




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Re: Stus-List Lines led forward

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Jonathan,

My jacklines are tied to the cleats behind the cabin-top winches.  They
attached to the spin pole downhaul ring on the bow so you would have a hard
time going over the bow pulpit.

Joel

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 1:17 PM, Indigo via CnC-List 
wrote:

> I am with you Joel.  The least number of people moving around on deck -
> especially at night - the better. The recent tests by Yachting Monthly (I
> think it was) on the dangers of going overboard while tethered were
> terrifying.  (I need to find a way to run my jack lines midships instead of
> along the decks - in particular where to tie off the jack lines near the
> cockpit so a crew can clip in before leaving the cockpit)
>
> --
> Jonathan
> Indigo C 35III
> SOUTHPORT CT
>
> > On Dec 22, 2015, at 11:28, Joel Aronson via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> >
> > I like staying in the cockpit!
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
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>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Welcome to a great resource! [was "Lines led forward"]

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

To those who aren’t aware, I believe Chuck worked at Edson in years past; and 
been a great resource for technically-related steering issues on our old boats. 
 In fact, every customer-service related call I’ve made to Edson over the years 
(and I believe Chuck has been involved in more than one…) has been exceptional, 
and they’ve gone out of their way to support me, first on my 1981 30mkI and now 
my even older 1979 LF38.

So Chuck, welcome; and I hope we can repay the favors.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Dec 22, 2015, at 7:28 AM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> I’m purchasing a Landfall 35 that has a brand new gennaker but no sock or 
> snuffer.  From several forum posts, I’m reading that using a sock can be a 
> bit challenging and can easily foul midway through the hoist or douse if care 
> isn’t taken to keep lines clear.  Any recommendations?  Can one assume that 
> the ATN or North products work equally well (or poorly)?   Most of the 
> sailhandling with be done double handed with the help of my teenage son, thus 
> the reason for the post.  The main and jib halyards are run aft to the 
> cockpit, but I believe the spin halyard stays up by the mast, something I may 
> likely change.  The new boat is on the hard, mast down and there aren’t any 
> winches on the mast (only on the boom for outhaul and reefing).  From the 
> factory, this boat has two dedicated halyard winches and cleats (not 
> clutches) on the coach roof with pass through holes in the cockpit coaming 
> for the main and jib halyards, but not seeing anything obvious for the spin 
> halyard.
> Thanks in advance for any feedback from sock users…
> Chuck Gilchrest
> S/V Half Magic
> 1975 25 Mk1
>  
> S/V Orion
> 1983 Landfall 35
> Padanaram, MA

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Re: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4

[Jake Brodersen via CnC-List]

Jonathan,

I think Charlie meant to criticize two-bladed FOLDING propellers as having
poor reverse power.  The Max prop isn't a folding prop, is it?

I have a two-bladed Martec and I get along just fine with it.  It takes a
good shot of throttle to get some momentum in reverse, but then it backs up
just fine.

Jake

Jake Brodersen
C 35 Mk-III "Midnight Mistress"
Hampton VA



-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Indigo
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 10:53
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Indigo 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4

 "No two blade prop will do very well in reverse although I would get a
geared one so that you can be sure that it opened."

Have to disagree with this statement. My 35-III with a two blade Max-prop
goes very well in reverse. In fact in tight situations I often prefer to
extract myself in reverse!

--
Jonathan
Indigo C 35III
SOUTHPORT CT

> On Dec 22, 2015, at 10:10, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List
 wrote:
> 
> No two blade prop will do very well in reverse although I would get a
geared one so that you can be sure that it opened.

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Re: Stus-List Folding props

[Martin DeYoung via CnC-List]

> The time it takes between putting her into reverse and actually moving 
> backward with flow over the rudder is what can take several seconds with a 
> folder… If other things are happening nearby (current, wind, pilings, etc.), 
> these few seconds can seem like a very long time!.


Back in the mid 70’s I was crewing on a C 39.  The local rock star sailmaker 
was onboard for an event on Lake Washington related to Seattle Yacht Club’s 
Opening Day parade.  A few adult beverages may have been consumed in the 
process of crossing the lake to join a party at another competitor’s lake front 
home.

When it was pointed out to the rock star he was pointing the 39’s bow into a 
covered slip, he quickly hit reverse (A4 engine, Martec folding prop) and added 
throttle.  With the standard delay in actually retarding the vessel’s forward 
motion the 39’s forestay (Stearn’s twin stay IIRC) made a noticeable twanging 
sound as it hit the metal roof over the slip.

It was hard to find the rock star at the party that afternoon.  Years later 
that rock star became Calypso’s insurance agent.  I don’t think he ever forgot 
how long it takes to reverse direction with a folding prop.

Martin DeYoung
Calypso
1971 C 43
Seattle

[Description: Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F]

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Charlie 
Nelson via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 12:20 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Folding props

I was not referring to feathering props. As I understand them, they are 
designed to be about equal in forward or reverse.
My former Max-Prop 3 blade feathering prop was excellent and relatively quickly 
got the boat going in reverse.

Any geared folding 2-blade prop will get a boat moving in reverse--just not 
very efficiently--especially if it is optimized for forward motion
and minimum drag when folded.

The time it takes between putting her into reverse and actually moving backward 
with flow over the rudder is what can take several seconds with a folder..

If other things are happening nearby (current, wind, pilings, etc.), these few 
seconds can seem like a very long time!.

Charlie Nelson
C 36 XL/kcb
Water Phantom

cenel...@aol.com
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Re: Stus-List Welcome to a great resource! [was "Lines led forward"]

[Martin DeYoung via CnC-List]

> I’m reading that using a sock can be a bit challenging and can easily foul 
> midway through the hoist or douse if care isn’t taken to keep lines clear.  
> Any recommendations?  Can one assume that the ATN or North products work 
> equally well (or poorly)?


I have an ATN sock on Calypso and have used other ATN socks on offshore 
deliveries of two other boats at 46’ and 55’.  I have not used a North Sails 
spinnaker sock.

The ATN has a feature to help reduce control line tangling.  The control lines 
run through a different color fabric sleeve.  On Calypso’s ATN sock, the 
control line sleeve is grey, the rest of the sock white.

When hoisting, I make sure all the grey colored fabric is facing in, top to 
bottom.  This practice has almost always worked to prevent the control lines 
from either being twisted or set to the outside, away from the deck.  When I 
pack the sail/sock combo into its bag, I follow the grey color fabric just like 
following a spinnaker’s luff tape.  I leave the head draped over the bag’s 
opening until the collar, clews, and control line has been neatly stacked at 
the top of the bag.

After a hoist, I tie the control lines to a cleat near the base of the mast.  
When gybing I move the control line forward and temporarily tie it to the bow 
pulpit, forward of the forestay.  After the gybe is complete I move the line 
back to the mast base on the leeward side, ready for a dowse should one be 
called for.

One of the tangling while hoisting issues I have experienced +-50% of the time 
is a bunching of the sail material making it difficult to raise the collar.  
Calypso’s symmetrical spinnaker is full size with broad shoulders.  If, during 
the prior take down the sail material was not uniformly distributed as the sock 
was lowered the material bunches 2/3rds the way down.

To reduce the hassle factor of this bunching (I may have referred to this as 
Calypso’s panties have gotten into a bunch) once the sail/sock is at full hoist 
and the cockpit crew is ready for the sail to be released I pull handfuls of 
sail material down out of the collar as the crew gently pulls back on the sheet 
(the guy is pre-fed into position).  By pulling down on the material it clears 
the bunched up sail and the collar rises quickly.

Martin DeYoung
Calypso
1971 C 43
Seattle

[Description: Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F]


On Dec 22, 2015, at 7:28 AM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
> wrote:

Hi All,
I’m purchasing a Landfall 35 that has a brand new gennaker but no sock or 
snuffer.  From several forum posts, I’m reading that using a sock can be a bit 
challenging and can easily foul midway through the hoist or douse if care isn’t 
taken to keep lines clear.  Any recommendations?  Can one assume that the ATN 
or North products work equally well (or poorly)?   Most of the sailhandling 
with be done double handed with the help of my teenage son, thus the reason for 
the post.  The main and jib halyards are run aft to the cockpit, but I believe 
the spin halyard stays up by the mast, something I may likely change.  The new 
boat is on the hard, mast down and there aren’t any winches on the mast (only 
on the boom for outhaul and reefing).  From the factory, this boat has two 
dedicated halyard winches and cleats (not clutches) on the coach roof with pass 
through holes in the cockpit coaming for the main and jib halyards, but not 
seeing anything obvious for the spin halyard.
Thanks in advance for any feedback from sock users…
Chuck Gilchrest
S/V Half Magic
1975 25 Mk1

S/V Orion
1983 Landfall 35
Padanaram, MA

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Re: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4

[jtsails via CnC-List]

Joe,
there is a ton of discussion about props for direct drive A-4s on the Moyer 
forum. The prevailing opinion seeming to be that it is important to select a 
prop that will allow the engine to develop enough rpms to get into the heart 
of it's powerband. A-4s output very little power below 2000 rpms so you need 
a prop that will allow you to get above that. The most popular prop these 
days seems to be the indigo 3-blade fixed. I will say that the Gori 8 inch 
folding sounds like a great option, but I would go to a 7 pitch. The A-4 is 
a very robust design and will happily run at higher rpms with no problems 
for years! I personally run mine at 2800 rpms turning a 16-10 two blade 
(fixed) with a 2:1 reduction.

James
Delaney
C 38 Mk11
Oriental, NC


-Original Message- 
From: Joe at Zialater via CnC-List

Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 11:58 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Joe at Zialater
Subject: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4

My 1975 30-1,  Zia is up for a nice Christmas gift this year - a folding
prop.

Any recommendations for a good folder that will still give me decent
performance in forward and reverse?  I don't know the current two blade prop
specs but she is being pushed by a smooth running Atomic 4.

Thanks for any input - and happy holidays!

Joe Boyle
Zia
Annapolis, MD
j...@zialater.com




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Re: Stus-List Folding props

[Syerdave--- via CnC-List]

Great story!   
When I bought windstar (33ii) she had the original very worn folding 
(non-geared) Martec.A series of vibrational mis-diagnoses let me through a 
brand new (2014) gori folding and a slightly too-large fixed two blade.The 
Martec was awful in reverse, attributed (by Martec) to wear.   The difference 
between the new gori and the fixed two blade is effectively indiscernible under 
power incl. in reverse, but the folding prop rules under sail in light air.
That said, I rarely parallel park in an 8 kt current.   The gori is a work of 
art in bronze.   
I had been told that three blade fixed was the only way to get decent 
reverse  Experts
Props are a funny subject.   There are strong opinions, but realistically, (and 
understandably) there is very little solid comparative data available for a 
given model of prop with a given boat.
Anyway, the point of all this is to say that I think slippery boats really 
benefit from good folding or feathering props esp in light air, and I think 
that modern geared folding props are much better than those of the past, 
limiting the relevance of stories of past misadventures.

Dave


Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 21:47:23 +
From: Martin DeYoung 
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding props
Message-ID: <23eae197cc1b594fa8793397ebcd357de36...@dmi3.dmi.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> The time it takes between putting her into reverse and actually moving 
> backward with flow over the rudder is what can take several seconds with a 
> folder? If other things are happening nearby (current, wind, pilings, etc.), 
> these few seconds can seem like a very long time!.


Back in the mid 70?s I was crewing on a C 39.  The local rock star sailmaker 
was onboard for an event on Lake Washington related to Seattle Yacht Club?s 
Opening Day parade.  A few adult beverages may have been consumed in the 
process of crossing the lake to join a party at another competitor?s lake front 
home.

When it was pointed out to the rock star he was pointing the 39?s bow into a 
covered slip, he quickly hit reverse (A4 engine, Martec folding prop) and added 
throttle.  With the standard delay in actually retarding the vessel?s forward 
motion the 39?s forestay (Stearn?s twin stay IIRC) made a noticeable twanging 
sound as it hit the metal roof over the slip.

It was hard to find the rock star at the party that afternoon.  Years later 
that rock star became Calypso?s insurance agent.  I don?t think he ever forgot 
how long it takes to reverse direction with a folding prop.

Martin DeYoung
Calypso
1971 C 43



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Re: Stus-List Folding props

[John McKay via CnC-List]

You brought a smile to my face with this one Martin!
 

On Tuesday, December 22, 2015 4:48 PM, Martin DeYoung via CnC-List 
 wrote:
 

 #yiv4606771206 #yiv4606771206 -- _filtered #yiv4606771206 
{font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv4606771206 
{font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv4606771206 
#yiv4606771206 p.yiv4606771206MsoNormal, #yiv4606771206 
li.yiv4606771206MsoNormal, #yiv4606771206 div.yiv4606771206MsoNormal 
{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv4606771206 a:link, 
#yiv4606771206 span.yiv4606771206MsoHyperlink 
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4606771206 a:visited, #yiv4606771206 
span.yiv4606771206MsoHyperlinkFollowed 
{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4606771206 
p.yiv4606771206MsoAcetate, #yiv4606771206 li.yiv4606771206MsoAcetate, 
#yiv4606771206 div.yiv4606771206MsoAcetate 
{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv4606771206 
span.yiv4606771206EmailStyle17 
{color:#1F497D;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;}#yiv4606771206 
span.yiv4606771206BalloonTextChar {}#yiv4606771206 .yiv4606771206MsoChpDefault 
{font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv4606771206 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 
1.0in;}#yiv4606771206 div.yiv4606771206WordSection1 {}#yiv4606771206 >The time 
it takes between putting her into reverse and actually moving backward with 
flow over the rudder is what can take several seconds with a folder… If other 
things are happening nearby (current, wind, pilings, etc.), these few seconds 
can seem like a very long time!.       Back in the mid 70’s I was crewing on a 
C 39.  The local rock star sailmaker was onboard for an event on Lake 
Washington related to Seattle Yacht Club’s Opening Day parade.  A few adult 
beverages may have been consumed in the process of crossing the lake to join a 
party at another competitor’s lake front home.    When it was pointed out to 
the rock star he was pointing the 39’s bow into a covered slip, he quickly hit 
reverse (A4 engine, Martec folding prop) and added throttle.  With the standard 
delay in actually retarding the vessel’s forward motion the 39’s forestay 
(Stearn’s twin stay IIRC) made a noticeable twanging sound as it hit the metal 
roof over the slip.    It was hard to find the rock star at the party that 
afternoon.  Years later that rock star became Calypso’s insurance agent.  I 
don’t think he ever forgot how long it takes to reverse direction with a 
folding prop.    Martin DeYoung Calypso 1971 C 43 Seattle 
    From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Charlie 
Nelson via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 12:20 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Folding props    I was not referring to feathering props. As 
I understand them, they are designed to be about equal in forward or reverse. 
My former Max-Prop 3 blade feathering prop was excellent and relatively quickly 
got the boat going in reverse.   Any geared folding 2-blade prop will get a 
boat moving in reverse--just not very efficiently--especially if it is 
optimized for forward motion and minimum drag when folded.   The time it takes 
between putting her into reverse and actually moving backward with flow over 
the rudder is what can take several seconds with a folder..   If other things 
are happening nearby (current, wind, pilings, etc.), these few seconds can seem 
like a very long time!.   Charlie Nelson C 36 XL/kcb Water Phantom   
cenel...@aol.com 
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Re: Stus-List hot water heater

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Mike,

 

Different boat etc., but…

 

You want to have the heater as close to the engine as possible. I assume that 
the heater will be heated with the engine coolant (and possibly with 
shorepower). The difficult plumbing is from the engine to the water heater and 
back. And you want to limit the amount of extra coolant that you need (i.e. the 
length of the hoses).

 

Plumbing to the head is usually much easier, because you just run a flexible 
pipe (PEX?) and that can go just about anywhere.

 

Also to consider is how you are going to deal with the water coming out of the 
shower (sump, pump, drain to the bilge etc.).

 

Good luck 

 

Marek

 

1994 C270 “Legato”

Ottawa

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Edward 
Levert via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 22:54
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Edward Levert 
Subject: Re: Stus-List hot water heater

 

Mike,

 

Welcome to the list. You will love the C 34 better under sail.

 

The hot water heater on my 34 is at the forward end of the cockpit locker to 
the right of the engine just as you suggest. I am guessing it was original 
equipment. Cannot begin to help on how to plumb to the head/shower.

 

Ed

Briarpatch C 34 1981

New Orleans, La.

On Tuesday, December 22, 2015, Headgorilla via CnC-List  > wrote:

Mike here...

 

Just bought a 1978 34' C, she is Red and is quite a rig...previous owner was 
a casual club racer and took exceptional care of the boat.

 

you will have to excuse my ignorance (on sailing) since I am moving up from a 
22' OdayMH..

 

I have been following the discussions that you guys are having and it is all 
very, very educationaland since I bought the boat on the day it was hauled 
for the winter (Had to inspect her first) I haven't been able to mess around 
with the sailing parts yet..just for FYI since you guys have been 
discussing it.this 34' has 10 winches and everything leads back to the 8 
around the cockpit (4 on cabin top and 4 on cockpit combing), the two by the 
mast are set for the babystay track and one for the spinnaker halyard

 

My question..the Admiral needs hot water for her shower..looks as if 
the best and only place for it is on the starboard side of the engine (atomic4 
rebuilt 2010 130hrs)...with access to the fresh water cooling system.gonna 
be some piping to do since the water tank and pump are under the port side 
cabin bunk and the head is on the starboard...

 

Any other ideas? or is that where I should put it?


Thanks,

 

Mike

1978 34' Skywalker

Southold, NY

 

 

 

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Re: Stus-List Anchor locker lid attachment

[svpegasus38]

Patrick, I redid my anchor locker hatch and don't remember any coring. 
Except on the hatch its self. I cut the hatch in half when I installed my 
windlass. I have 2 strap hinges on each half, with each one opening outboard. 
Doug MountjoysvPegasusLF38 just west of Ballard, WA.

-- Original message--From: Patrick Davin via CnC-ListDate: Tue, Dec 22, 
2015 10:54To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com;Cc: Patrick Davin;Subject:Stus-List Anchor 
locker lid attachment
Next up on my winter project list: reinforcing the anchor locker lid 
attachment. 
C's are made really well for the most part, but I had a "what were they 
thinking???" moment this weekend. I was investigating the anchor locker lid 
hinge (which is screwed into a recessed area of the deck) because several 
screws have pulled out and there are rust stains. The surprise was it looks 
like the 15-20 screws for the hinge went into wood coring. Screws in wood core, 
in the wettest part of the boat! (the foredeck takes the most waves, and when 
at dock it's always humid from rain)
Pictures: 
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BxfHpwssU_6NQThGM1AzTmxabU0=sharing

Has anyone else redone their anchor locker hinge? Can you confirm that it's 
cored, or am I on the crazy pills?  
The reason I suspected core in the first place is that the lid hinge is about 
1" outside of the deck area where all fiberglass was used along the toe rail. 
Tap testing / sounding doesn't reveal any significant differences, so I think 
the issue is very contained, surprisingly. It seems like if they had made the 
anchor locker an inch or so wider, they wouldn't have had to screw in to coring 
- but maybe the fiberglass layer isn't thick enough to fit the screws. Anyway, 
I'm thinking ream out some core from each hole, dry it out for 3-7 days (which 
may not be doable till the summer), fill with thickened epoxy and redrill.
-Patrick1984 C Landfall 38Seattle, WA




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Re: Stus-List hot water heater

[Headgorilla via CnC-List]

Thanks Marek,
 
the previous owner has a functional shower set up in the head with a drain to 
the bilge.all with just the cold water feedguess his wife wasn't 
interested in using it and he had it set up "just in case" some one needed to 
wash off quick
 
again thanks
 
Mike
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Marek Dziedzic 
Sent: Tue, Dec 22, 2015 11:15 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List hot water heater



Mike,
 
Different boat etc., but…
 
You want to have the heater as close to the engine as possible. I assume that 
the heater will be heated with the engine coolant (and possibly with 
shorepower). The difficult plumbing is from the engine to the water heater and 
back. And you want to limit the amount of extra coolant that you need (i.e. the 
length of the hoses).
 
Plumbing to the head is usually much easier, because you just run a flexible 
pipe (PEX?) and that can go just about anywhere.
 
Also to consider is how you are going to deal with the water coming out of the 
shower (sump, pump, drain to the bilge etc.).
 
Good luck 
 
Marek
 
1994 C270 “Legato”
Ottawa
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Edward 
Levert via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 22:54
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Edward Levert 
Subject: Re: Stus-List hot water heater
 
Mike,

 

Welcome to the list. You will love the C 34 better under sail.

 

The hot water heater on my 34 is at the forward end of the cockpit locker to 
the right of the engine just as you suggest. I am guessing it was original 
equipment. Cannot begin to help on how to plumb to the head/shower.

 

Ed

Briarpatch C 34 1981

New Orleans, La.

On Tuesday, December 22, 2015, Headgorilla via CnC-List  
wrote:

Mike here...

 

Just bought a 1978 34' C, she is Red and is quite a rig...previous owner was 
a casual club racer and took exceptional care of the boat.

 

you will have to excuse my ignorance (on sailing) since I am moving up from a 
22' OdayMH..

 

I have been following the discussions that you guys are having and it is all 
very, very educationaland since I bought the boat on the day it was hauled 
for the winter (Had to inspect her first) I haven't been able to mess around 
with the sailing parts yet..just for FYI since you guys have been 
discussing it.this 34' has 10 winches and everything leads back to the 8 
around the cockpit (4 on cabin top and 4 on cockpit combing), the two by the 
mast are set for the babystay track and one for the spinnaker halyard

 

My question..the Admiral needs hot water for her shower..looks as if 
the best and only place for it is on the starboard side of the engine (atomic4 
rebuilt 2010 130hrs)...with access to the fresh water cooling system.gonna 
be some piping to do since the water tank and pump are under the port side 
cabin bunk and the head is on the starboard...

 

Any other ideas? or is that where I should put it?


Thanks,

 

Mike

1978 34' Skywalker

Southold, NY

 

 

 



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Stus-List hot water heater

[Headgorilla via CnC-List]

Mike here...

Just bought a 1978 34' C, she is Red and is quite a rig...previous owner was 
a casual club racer and took exceptional care of the boat.

you will have to excuse my ignorance (on sailing) since I am moving up from a 
22' OdayMH..

I have been following the discussions that you guys are having and it is all 
very, very educationaland since I bought the boat on the day it was hauled 
for the winter (Had to inspect her first) I haven't been able to mess around 
with the sailing parts yet..just for FYI since you guys have been 
discussing it.this 34' has 10 winches and everything leads back to the 8 
around the cockpit (4 on cabin top and 4 on cockpit combing), the two by the 
mast are set for the babystay track and one for the spinnaker halyard

My question..the Admiral needs hot water for her shower..looks as if 
the best and only place for it is on the starboard side of the engine (atomic4 
rebuilt 2010 130hrs)...with access to the fresh water cooling system.gonna 
be some piping to do since the water tank and pump are under the port side 
cabin bunk and the head is on the starboard...

Any other ideas? or is that where I should put it?

Thanks,

Mike
1978 34' Skywalker
Southold, NY



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Re: Stus-List hot water heater

[Edward Levert via CnC-List]

Mike,

Welcome to the list. You will love the C 34 better under sail.

The hot water heater on my 34 is at the forward end of the cockpit locker
to the right of the engine just as you suggest. I am guessing it was
original equipment. Cannot begin to help on how to plumb to the head/shower.

Ed
Briarpatch C 34 1981
New Orleans, La.

On Tuesday, December 22, 2015, Headgorilla via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Mike here...
>
> Just bought a 1978 34' C, she is Red and is quite a rig...previous owner
> was a casual club racer and took exceptional care of the boat.
>
> you will have to excuse my ignorance (on sailing) since I am moving up
> from a 22' OdayMH..
>
> I have been following the discussions that you guys are having and it is
> all very, very educationaland since I bought the boat on the day it was
> hauled for the winter (Had to inspect her first) I haven't been able to
> mess around with the sailing parts yet..just for FYI since you guys
> have been discussing it.this 34' has 10 winches and everything leads
> back to the 8 around the cockpit (4 on cabin top and 4 on cockpit combing),
> the two by the mast are set for the babystay track and one for the
> spinnaker halyard
>
> My question..the Admiral needs hot water for her shower..looks as
> if the best and only place for it is on the starboard side of the engine
> (atomic4 rebuilt 2010 130hrs)...with access to the fresh water cooling
> system.gonna be some piping to do since the water tank and pump are
> under the port side cabin bunk and the head is on the starboard...
>
> Any other ideas? or is that where I should put it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
> 1978 34' Skywalker
> Southold, NY
>
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4

[Indigo via CnC-List]

 "No two blade prop will do very well in reverse although I would get a geared 
one so that you can be sure that it opened."

Have to disagree with this statement. My 35-III with a two blade Max-prop goes 
very well in reverse. In fact in tight situations I often prefer to extract 
myself in reverse!

--
Jonathan
Indigo C 35III
SOUTHPORT CT

> On Dec 22, 2015, at 10:10, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> No two blade prop will do very well in reverse although I would get a geared 
> one so that you can be sure that it opened.

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Re: Stus-List Winter discussions - depth sounder offset

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Joe,

Aren't most charts in MLLW?  That's even lower than low tide.  IIRC it is
the average of the LOWEST tides for the last number of years.  So even more
to your point, "As long as the depthfinder is > or = to the charted depth,
things are good. If not, either I am lost or the chart is wrong."

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Dec 22, 2015 10:29 AM, "Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> For us the tide range is only 2 feet or so normally and the charts are all
> done for low tide, so as long as the depthfinder is > or = to the charted
> depth, things are good. If not, either I am lost or the chart is wrong.
> There are a couple of places near me where I am aground in what should be 8
> feet of water.  When Kent Narrows is too long between dredging I go through
> with 0.1 feet more than the reading I run aground at.
>
> Joe
>
> Coquina
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *dwight
> veinot via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 22, 2015 9:33 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* dwight veinot
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Winter discussions - depth sounder offset
>
>
>
> Yea but even with that we need to account for tides...the charts show
> depths at low tide, so I like my depth sounder to indicate actual depth
> from the water surface, and I usually use a positive offset of 2 feet which
> is as close as I measured with maybe a couple inches of comfort factor
> between the transducer and the water line when on the hard...no harm in
> your way and more comfort factor... it's only luck if the sounder gives the
> same depth as the charts because the charts show minimum depth over the
> contour region, there could be deeper spots within the contour area, that's
> good for us
>
>
> Dwight Veinot
>
> C 35 MKII, *Alianna*
>
> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>
> d.ve...@bellaliant.net
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
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> bottom of page at:
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Re: Stus-List Lines led forward

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

Hi All,

I’m purchasing a Landfall 35 that has a brand new gennaker but no sock or 
snuffer.  From several forum posts, I’m reading that using a sock can be a bit 
challenging and can easily foul midway through the hoist or douse if care isn’t 
taken to keep lines clear.  Any recommendations?  Can one assume that the ATN 
or North products work equally well (or poorly)?   Most of the sailhandling 
with be done double handed with the help of my teenage son, thus the reason for 
the post.  The main and jib halyards are run aft to the cockpit, but I believe 
the spin halyard stays up by the mast, something I may likely change.  The new 
boat is on the hard, mast down and there aren’t any winches on the mast (only 
on the boom for outhaul and reefing).  From the factory, this boat has two 
dedicated halyard winches and cleats (not clutches) on the coach roof with pass 
through holes in the cockpit coaming for the main and jib halyards, but not 
seeing anything obvious for the spin halyard.

Thanks in advance for any feedback from sock users…

Chuck Gilchrest

S/V Half Magic

1975 25 Mk1

 

S/V Orion

1983 Landfall 35

Padanaram, MA 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Andrew 
Burton via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 8:10 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Andrew Burton 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Lines led forward

 

My spin halyards are led from the exit boxes up high on the mast, then through 
a clutch and down to a block at the base of the mast and to the winch on either 
side of the mast. I have three winches at the mast base; one dedicated for the 
main halyard and one for the spin or jib on each side. Clutches are my friend.

I like the spin halyard arrangement. I can hoist the asym in the sock and make 
sure it goes up clean and when it's time to douse, I can ease it down straight 
into the bag.

I mostly cruise, but this works well for racing, too.

 

Andy

C 40

Peregrine

Newport, RI

Andrew Burton

61 W Narragansett

Newport, RI 

USA02840

 

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/

+401 965-5260


On Dec 21, 2015, at 19:48, Martin DeYoung via CnC-List  > wrote:

> The question next is what to do about the spinnaker halyard. I can probably 
> make a case for it being forward in some configuration given that my wife and 
> I will be using a cruising A-sym with a sock and that would only be in 
> lightish air.

 

On Calypso and our last boat (a C 36) we had the spin halyard forward so 1 
person is able to hoist/dowse with the spin sock.

 

Calypso’s full size spin, even in a ATN sock is a hand full in TWS above 15.  
Both hoisting and dropping, in the sock, is easier on a run.  Avoid either on a 
reach.  Early in our double-handed racing I got a bit too fancy with my leeward 
mark rounding tactics and was nearly dragged off the foredeck by the sock’s 
windage.

 

Back when we had the 36, the cruising A-sym in a sock was easy to handle in any 
conditions that a spinnaker would be needed.  Having the halyard forward 
allowed me to hold it in one hand and use the other to wrangle the sock onto 
the foredeck.  Both the ATN sock(s) and the cuff that goes over a rolled up 
headsail for the A-sym tack have worked well.  For Calypso I wish there had 
been a carbon fiber hoop option back in 1999 when we purchased our sock.  The 
large size fiberglass version is a bit heavy.  Maybe after I finish Calypso’s 
deck rebuild I will fabricate a carbon hoop at home.

 

Martin DeYoung

Calypso

1971 C 43

Seattle




 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave Godwin 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 4:25 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
Cc: Dave Godwin
Subject: Re: Stus-List Lines led forward

 

These observations bring me back to the realities of halyard/reef management 
with lines led aft versus forward.

 

“Forward” on larger boats generally means winches mounted on the mast in-line 
with the halyards with appropriate line-stoppers. With this configuration, and 
suitable bracing, reefing the main in rough weather is pretty “safe” and in my 
experience faster and more efficient.

 

I’m afraid that my 37’ just doesn’t quite make the grade in terms of a 
larger,more stable boat, much that I might wish otherwise. And what I am trying 
to achieve is less clutter in the cockpit which is at odds with safety 
considerations. I have no intention nor do I think if would be very feasible to 
mount winches on my mast. This leaves me with the prospect of moving the 
mechanical advantage away from the mast to a position in the middle of the 
boat. That modification right away eliminates the ability for one person to 
quickly pull in a reef from a single location.

 

With that in mind, it may devolve down to moving the both the jib halyards 
forward. I don’t race this boat nor will I ever and after the 

Re: Stus-List Lines led forward

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

I think keeping spinnaker halyards by the mast is a good idea from many 
different viewpoints.  When using the spinnaker usually you are in light air 
anyway and safety is not a concern.

Bob

Sent from my iPhone, Bob Boyer

> On Dec 21, 2015, at 8:10 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> My spin halyards are led from the exit boxes up high on the mast, then 
> through a clutch and down to a block at the base of the mast and to the winch 
> on either side of the mast. I have three winches at the mast base; one 
> dedicated for the main halyard and one for the spin or jib on each side. 
> Clutches are my friend.
> I like the spin halyard arrangement. I can hoist the asym in the sock and 
> make sure it goes up clean and when it's time to douse, I can ease it down 
> straight into the bag.
> I mostly cruise, but this works well for racing, too.
> 
> Andy
> C 40
> Peregrine
> Newport, RI
> 
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett
> Newport, RI 
> USA02840
> 
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> +401 965-5260
> 
>> On Dec 21, 2015, at 19:48, Martin DeYoung via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> > The question next is what to do about the spinnaker halyard. I can 
>> > probably make a case for it being forward in some configuration given that 
>> > my wife and I will be using a cruising A-sym with a sock and that would 
>> > only be in lightish air.
>>  
>> On Calypso and our last boat (a C 36) we had the spin halyard forward so 1 
>> person is able to hoist/dowse with the spin sock.
>>  
>> Calypso’s full size spin, even in a ATN sock is a hand full in TWS above 15. 
>>  Both hoisting and dropping, in the sock, is easier on a run.  Avoid either 
>> on a reach.  Early in our double-handed racing I got a bit too fancy with my 
>> leeward mark rounding tactics and was nearly dragged off the foredeck by the 
>> sock’s windage.
>>  
>> Back when we had the 36, the cruising A-sym in a sock was easy to handle in 
>> any conditions that a spinnaker would be needed.  Having the halyard forward 
>> allowed me to hold it in one hand and use the other to wrangle the sock onto 
>> the foredeck.  Both the ATN sock(s) and the cuff that goes over a rolled up 
>> headsail for the A-sym tack have worked well.  For Calypso I wish there had 
>> been a carbon fiber hoop option back in 1999 when we purchased our sock.  
>> The large size fiberglass version is a bit heavy.  Maybe after I finish 
>> Calypso’s deck rebuild I will fabricate a carbon hoop at home.
>>  
>> Martin DeYoung
>> Calypso
>> 1971 C 43
>> Seattle
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave 
>> Godwin via CnC-List
>> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 4:25 PM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Cc: Dave Godwin
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Lines led forward
>>  
>> These observations bring me back to the realities of halyard/reef management 
>> with lines led aft versus forward.
>>  
>> “Forward” on larger boats generally means winches mounted on the mast 
>> in-line with the halyards with appropriate line-stoppers. With this 
>> configuration, and suitable bracing, reefing the main in rough weather is 
>> pretty “safe” and in my experience faster and more efficient.
>>  
>> I’m afraid that my 37’ just doesn’t quite make the grade in terms of a 
>> larger,more stable boat, much that I might wish otherwise. And what I am 
>> trying to achieve is less clutter in the cockpit which is at odds with 
>> safety considerations. I have no intention nor do I think if would be very 
>> feasible to mount winches on my mast. This leaves me with the prospect of 
>> moving the mechanical advantage away from the mast to a position in the 
>> middle of the boat. That modification right away eliminates the ability for 
>> one person to quickly pull in a reef from a single location.
>>  
>> With that in mind, it may devolve down to moving the both the jib halyards 
>> forward. I don’t race this boat nor will I ever and after the furling jib is 
>> hoisted the 1st jib halyard is rarely touched unless there is a pressing 
>> need to adjust luff tension. The 2nd jib halyard remains dormant for the 
>> season and is reserved for emergency duties. Inside/outside peels are thing 
>> of the past…
>>  
>> Right now a quick analysis leads to keeping the main halyard, 1st and 2nd 
>> reefing lines led aft to the cockpit. One winch for the main halyard and one 
>> for the mainsheet which will reduce the winch farm from four to two. Reefing 
>> lines led to the “unloaded” main halyard winch after the main has been 
>> placed in the tack horn and secured by one of several line stoppers.
>>  
>> The question next is what to do about the spinnaker halyard. I can probably 
>> make a case for it being forward in some configuration given that my wife 
>> and I will be using a cruising A-sym with a sock and that would only be in 
>> lightish air. The symmetrical has been retired and most likely 

Re: Stus-List Lines led forward

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

I went for 6 clutches to 9 on the cabin top - 2 jib halyards, 2 spin
halyards, main halyard, 1 reef line, cunningham, outhaul and topping lift.

I stacked the two original line organizers and found a 4 sheave organizer
that fit the original holes.

I use these to keep things organized on the bulkhead:

http://ca.binnacle.com/Deck-Hardware-Clips-&-Hangers/c117_226/p10010/BARTON-LINE-TAMER/product_info.html

I also have about 10 of them in the lazarette for spin sheets, etc.

As I said before, I have cam cleats for the spin halyards on the mast.

I like staying in the cockpit!

Joel
35/3
Annapolis



On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Bruno Lachance via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> My layout for club racing / cruising (C 33 mkII)
>
> The boat came with double deck organizer, plenty of clutches and four
> winches at the pit (one Barient 21 ST, two 18, one 10)
>
> Main, outaul, Cunningham, vang, first and second reef, jib and spin
> halyards and baby stay, are all led aft.
>
> BUT, i added a spinlock XTS on the mast for the main allowing me to easily
> hoist without messing with the lazyjacks and quickly hook the "reef bone"
> at the mast, tensioning the halyard and reef lines at pit afterward .
> I also added a Spinlock XAS (less tension) on the starboard side of the
> mast of spin halyard for a quick hoist and take down in light winds. I have
> the choice to leave the mast cluthes open to keep control of the halyards
> at the cockpit. Pole lift is at the mast too.
>
> The lines aft allow me to easily and quickly adjust everything from the
> cockpit to tune the sails without having to run to the mast. i like this
> setup for racing and for cruising singlehanded.
>
> Happy holidays everybody. Don't forget to wacht the Sydney Hobart start! :)
>
> Bruno Lachance
> Bécassine, '87 C 33 mkII
> New-Richmond, Qc
>
>
>
> --
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 09:17:30 -0500
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Lines led forward
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> CC: colt...@verizon.net
>
> MY layout –
>
> SB, Spinnaker and Jib halyard on mast, Main and Cunningham led back to
> clutches.
>
> Port, Spinnaker led back to clutch, also a cam cleat on mast. Mostly bear
> away sets. Jib halyard at mast, rarely used. Main Outhaul, Vang, & first
> reef also led back to cockpit.
>
> As someone mentioned, mostly we use spinnakers in fairly light air – and,
> at least in my experience, it is blowing like snot when you want to take it
> down!  So, having the halyard back at the cockpit allows someone less
> talented to handle the drop.
>
>
>
> Bill Coleman
>
> C 39 Erie, PA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___ Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including
> unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at:
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>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Route Planning and Uploading to Chart Plotter

[allen via CnC-List]

My old laptop died and I've replaced it with a refurbished  Panasonic 
Toughbook.  Nice upgrade for cheap. Windows 7 with upgrade to 10 option

Next issue, what software to install.  For the past 20 years I've used CAPN for 
route planning and then just connected my laptop into the onboard GPS for 
cruising.

Now I've upgraded to Raymarine E units on the pedestal and in the nav station.  
Both are equipped with Navionics cards.

I want to be able to construct routes here at home and upload them onto my E 
units.  I will take my Toughbook with its GPS dongle along, but that's for 
backup.

Seems like I have three options:
  1.. Reinstall latest and greatest version of CAPN 
  2.. Install Raymarine Voyager 
  3.. Install Navionics PC App
I sense the technology moving away from large systems like CAPN toward mobile 
devices.  What's the best route looking forward or am I looking at a tech war 
in progress with no clear winner in sight?

Allen Miles
s/v Septima
C 30-2
Hampton VA


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Re: Stus-List Winter discussions - depth sounder offset

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Yea but even with that we need to account for tides...the charts show
depths at low tide, so I like my depth sounder to indicate actual depth
from the water surface, and I usually use a positive offset of 2 feet which
is as close as I measured with maybe a couple inches of comfort factor
between the transducer and the water line when on the hard...no harm in
your way and more comfort factor... it's only luck if the sounder gives the
same depth as the charts because the charts show minimum depth over the
contour region, there could be deeper spots within the contour area, that's
good for us

Dwight Veinot
C 35 MKII, *Alianna*
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net


On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 10:02 PM, robert via CnC-List  wrote:

> Dwight:
>
> I think your measurement of the offset from the waterline would be more
> accurate to the chart.I use the offset from the transducer to the
> bottom of the keel to give me a slight 'comfort level' or 'insurance' as
> happened this past Summer.I wasn't on the helm when the alarm went
> offI'd much rather have anything more than 6" below the keel, which we
> did.
>
> So I have my depth sounder set from the transducer rather than the
> waterline.I like the little extra safety (water) under me!  I really
> don't need to be exact, just close on the more water side.
>
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C 32 -84
> Halifax, N.S.
>
>
> On 2015-12-21 1:55 PM, dwight veinot via CnC-List wrote:
>
> Dennis maybe I don't understand what you're saying, but If you want the
> depth shown to closely match the depth shown on the charts should the off
> set not be from the transducer up to the waterline instead of down to the
> bottom of the keel
>
> Dwight Veinot
> C 35 MKII, *Alianna*
> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
> d.ve...@bellaliant.net
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 4:03 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Just curious what listers use for a draft offset and why.
>>
>> I use the actual offset as measured from the transducer to the bottom of
>> the keel so the depth shown closely matches the charted depth.  I prefer to
>> compare the depth shown on my instruments to the chart plotter rather than
>> have to do the math all the time.
>>
>> I know some owners use an offset so that the instrument shows depth under
>> keel while others don't use any offset at all.
>>
>> Dennis C.
>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>> Mandeville, LA
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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>> bottom of page at:
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ___
>
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>
>
> ___
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Re: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Agree with Bill...i don't have one but a friend on a similar size boat to
Alianna does and he liked it..

Dwight Veinot
C 35 MKII, *Alianna*
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net


On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 9:40 AM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I am surprised you don't have ten different suggestions already.
> So I will just tell you to get yourself a nice 2 blade Flex-O-Fold and
> don't
> look back.
> Hard to go wrong there.
>
>
>
> Bill Coleman
> C 39 Erie, PA
>
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joe at
> Zialater via CnC-List
> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 11:58 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Joe at Zialater
> Subject: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4
>
> My 1975 30-1,  Zia is up for a nice Christmas gift this year - a folding
> prop.
>
> Any recommendations for a good folder that will still give me decent
> performance in forward and reverse?  I don't know the current two blade
> prop
> specs but she is being pushed by a smooth running Atomic 4.
>
> Thanks for any input - and happy holidays!
>
> Joe Boyle
> Zia
> Annapolis, MD
> j...@zialater.com
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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> bottom
> of page at:
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>
>
> ___
>
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Re: Stus-List Route Planning and Uploading to Chart Plotter

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Allen,

Being the cheap SOB that I am, I run OpenCPN on my laptop, but I have never
tried to transfer routes to my e7.  I also use the free Ray charts on the
e7 rather than the Navionics charts.

Voyager does not look like it runs independent of the plotter - for that
you would need RNS Navigation software.

Let me know which solution you go with.

Joel
35/3
Annapolis

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 9:27 AM, allen via CnC-List 
wrote:

> My old laptop died and I've replaced it with a refurbished  Panasonic
> Toughbook.  Nice upgrade for cheap. Windows 7 with upgrade to 10 option
>
> Next issue, what software to install.  For the past 20 years I've used
> CAPN for route planning and then just connected my laptop into the onboard
> GPS for cruising.
>
> Now I've upgraded to Raymarine E units on the pedestal and in the nav
> station.  Both are equipped with Navionics cards.
>
> I want to be able to construct routes here at home and upload them onto my
> E units.  I will take my Toughbook with its GPS dongle along, but that's
> for backup.
>
> Seems like I have three options:
>
>1. Reinstall latest and greatest version of CAPN
>2. Install Raymarine Voyager
>3. Install Navionics PC App
>
> I sense the technology moving away from large systems like CAPN toward
> mobile devices.  What's the best route looking forward or am I looking at a
> tech war in progress with no clear winner in sight?
>
> Allen Miles
> s/v Septima
> C 30-2
> Hampton VA
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
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>
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

I am surprised you don't have ten different suggestions already.
So I will just tell you to get yourself a nice 2 blade Flex-O-Fold and don't
look back.
Hard to go wrong there.



Bill Coleman
C 39 Erie, PA

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joe at
Zialater via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 11:58 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Joe at Zialater
Subject: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4

My 1975 30-1,  Zia is up for a nice Christmas gift this year - a folding
prop.  

Any recommendations for a good folder that will still give me decent
performance in forward and reverse?  I don't know the current two blade prop
specs but she is being pushed by a smooth running Atomic 4.

Thanks for any input - and happy holidays!

Joe Boyle
Zia
Annapolis, MD
j...@zialater.com




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Re: Stus-List Lines led forward

[Andrew Burton via CnC-List]

Absolutely go with the sock. It makes handling the spinnaker so easy I use
it often. I haven't had any problems with mine. And yes, I would assume
ATN's and North's are equally good. I think mine is from ATN.

Andy
C 40
Peregrine
Newport, RI

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 8:28 AM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I’m purchasing a Landfall 35 that has a brand new gennaker but no sock or
> snuffer.  From several forum posts, I’m reading that using a sock can be a
> bit challenging and can easily foul midway through the hoist or douse if
> care isn’t taken to keep lines clear.  Any recommendations?  Can one assume
> that the ATN or North products work equally well (or poorly)?   Most of the
> sailhandling with be done double handed with the help of my teenage son,
> thus the reason for the post.  The main and jib halyards are run aft to the
> cockpit, but I believe the spin halyard stays up by the mast, something I
> may likely change.  The new boat is on the hard, mast down and there aren’t
> any winches on the mast (only on the boom for outhaul and reefing).  From
> the factory, this boat has two dedicated halyard winches and cleats (not
> clutches) on the coach roof with pass through holes in the cockpit coaming
> for the main and jib halyards, but not seeing anything obvious for the spin
> halyard.
>
> Thanks in advance for any feedback from sock users…
>
> Chuck Gilchrest
>
> S/V Half Magic
>
> 1975 25 Mk1
>
>
>
> S/V Orion
>
> 1983 Landfall 35
>
> Padanaram, MA
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Andrew
> Burton via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Monday, December 21, 2015 8:10 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Andrew Burton 
>
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Lines led forward
>
>
>
> My spin halyards are led from the exit boxes up high on the mast, then
> through a clutch and down to a block at the base of the mast and to the
> winch on either side of the mast. I have three winches at the mast base;
> one dedicated for the main halyard and one for the spin or jib on each
> side. Clutches are my friend.
>
> I like the spin halyard arrangement. I can hoist the asym in the sock and
> make sure it goes up clean and when it's time to douse, I can ease it down
> straight into the bag.
>
> I mostly cruise, but this works well for racing, too.
>
>
>
> Andy
>
> C 40
>
> Peregrine
>
> Newport, RI
>
> Andrew Burton
>
> 61 W Narragansett
>
> Newport, RI
>
> USA02840
>
>
>
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
>
> +401 965-5260
>
>
> On Dec 21, 2015, at 19:48, Martin DeYoung via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> > The question next is what to do about the spinnaker halyard. I can
> probably make a case for it being forward in some configuration given that
> my wife and I will be using a cruising A-sym with a sock and that would
> only be in lightish air.
>
>
>
> On Calypso and our last boat (a C 36) we had the spin halyard forward so
> 1 person is able to hoist/dowse with the spin sock.
>
>
>
> Calypso’s full size spin, even in a ATN sock is a hand full in TWS above
> 15.  Both hoisting and dropping, in the sock, is easier on a run.  Avoid
> either on a reach.  Early in our double-handed racing I got a bit too fancy
> with my leeward mark rounding tactics and was nearly dragged off the
> foredeck by the sock’s windage.
>
>
>
> Back when we had the 36, the cruising A-sym in a sock was easy to handle
> in any conditions that a spinnaker would be needed.  Having the halyard
> forward allowed me to hold it in one hand and use the other to wrangle the
> sock onto the foredeck.  Both the ATN sock(s) and the cuff that goes over a
> rolled up headsail for the A-sym tack have worked well.  For Calypso I wish
> there had been a carbon fiber hoop option back in 1999 when we purchased
> our sock.  The large size fiberglass version is a bit heavy.  Maybe after I
> finish Calypso’s deck rebuild I will fabricate a carbon hoop at home.
>
>
>
> Martin DeYoung
>
> Calypso
>
> 1971 C 43
>
> Seattle
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Dave Godwin via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Monday, December 21, 2015 4:25 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Dave Godwin
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Lines led forward
>
>
>
> These observations bring me back to the realities of halyard/reef
> management with lines led aft versus forward.
>
>
>
> “Forward” on larger boats generally means winches mounted on the mast
> in-line with the halyards with appropriate line-stoppers. With this
> configuration, and suitable bracing, reefing the main in rough weather is
> pretty “safe” and in my experience faster and more efficient.
>
>
>
> I’m afraid that my 37’ just doesn’t quite make the grade in terms of a
> larger,more stable boat, much that I might wish otherwise. And what I am
> trying to achieve is less clutter in the cockpit which is at odds with

Re: Stus-List Lines led forward

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

MY layout – 

SB, Spinnaker and Jib halyard on mast, Main and Cunningham led back to clutches.

Port, Spinnaker led back to clutch, also a cam cleat on mast. Mostly bear away 
sets. Jib halyard at mast, rarely used. Main Outhaul, Vang, & first reef also 
led back to cockpit.

As someone mentioned, mostly we use spinnakers in fairly light air – and, at 
least in my experience, it is blowing like snot when you want to take it down!  
So, having the halyard back at the cockpit allows someone less talented to 
handle the drop.

 

Bill Coleman

C 39 Erie, PA

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave Godwin 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 7:25 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Dave Godwin
Subject: Re: Stus-List Lines led forward

 

These observations bring me back to the realities of halyard/reef management 
with lines led aft versus forward.

 

“Forward” on larger boats generally means winches mounted on the mast in-line 
with the halyards with appropriate line-stoppers. With this configuration, and 
suitable bracing, reefing the main in rough weather is pretty “safe” and in my 
experience faster and more efficient.

 

I’m afraid that my 37’ just doesn’t quite make the grade in terms of a 
larger,more stable boat, much that I might wish otherwise. And what I am trying 
to achieve is less clutter in the cockpit which is at odds with safety 
considerations. I have no intention nor do I think if would be very feasible to 
mount winches on my mast. This leaves me with the prospect of moving the 
mechanical advantage away from the mast to a position in the middle of the 
boat. That modification right away eliminates the ability for one person to 
quickly pull in a reef from a single location.

 

With that in mind, it may devolve down to moving the both the jib halyards 
forward. I don’t race this boat nor will I ever and after the furling jib is 
hoisted the 1st jib halyard is rarely touched unless there is a pressing need 
to adjust luff tension. The 2nd jib halyard remains dormant for the season and 
is reserved for emergency duties. Inside/outside peels are thing of the past…

 

Right now a quick analysis leads to keeping the main halyard, 1st and 2nd 
reefing lines led aft to the cockpit. One winch for the main halyard and one 
for the mainsheet which will reduce the winch farm from four to two. Reefing 
lines led to the “unloaded” main halyard winch after the main has been placed 
in the tack horn and secured by one of several line stoppers.

 

The question next is what to do about the spinnaker halyard. I can probably 
make a case for it being forward in some configuration given that my wife and I 
will be using a cruising A-sym with a sock and that would only be in lightish 
air. The symmetrical has been retired and most likely the spinnaker pole will 
continue to reside in the rafters of my shed.

 

Much as I keep thinking about moving back to winch farms on the deck, that is 
an artifact from the old IOR/Tonner days with lot’s of young agile crew.

 

I dunno, clearly it’s still a moving target for me. More crumpled up pieces of 
paper with deck layout designs in the trash can.

 

Cheers,

Dave Godwin
1982 C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay

Ronin’s Overdue Refit  

 

On Dec 21, 2015, at 5:07 PM, Martin DeYoung via CnC-List 
 wrote:

 

Calypso still has the halyards and reefing lines forward.  The spinnaker pole 
downhaul (foreguy) runs aft, the pole topping lift can be led forward or aft 
depending on the number of crew available during dip pole gybes.

Calypso, being a very early IOR design with lots of displacement has a 
seakindly nature in most sailing conditions making it relatively secure to reef 
from the mast.  If the boat was smaller and/or lighter the security of being 
able to reef from the cockpit would begin to look good.

I still use the original Barient #1 wire halyard winch for the mainsail so I do 
not have to deal with long lines or tailing. Use of the wire winch is made 
easier with Harken Batt cars and full battens and decades of practice.  As 
mentioned by others, someone needs to be by the mast to hook the reef cringle 
into the reef  tack horn.  With the halyard, tack horn, and reefing lines all 
within a few feet of each other single handed reefing is straight forward and 
fast.  Most of the time I can go from no reef to first reef <2 minutes, but 2nd 
reef to 3rd takes longer.

When sailing double handed I keep the spinnaker pole topping lift up forward so 
I am able to preset the foreguy and topping lift to their marks allowing for 
them to be self-tending during a dip pole gybe.  Once I have the new guy in the 
pole jaws I quickly raise the topping lift to allow the helmsman/trimmer to 
complete pulling the pole aft.  I leave the foreguy set to a height that will 
not cause drama and allow the pole to get close to a proper angle.

I keep the foreguy led aft as 

Re: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

And Flex-o-Fold likely has WAY MORE reverse than something like a Martec!

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight 
veinot via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 10:37 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: dwight veinot
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4

Agree with Bill...i don't have one but a friend on a similar size boat to 
Alianna does and he liked it..

Dwight Veinot
C 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net


On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 9:40 AM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
> wrote:
I am surprised you don't have ten different suggestions already.
So I will just tell you to get yourself a nice 2 blade Flex-O-Fold and don't
look back.
Hard to go wrong there.



Bill Coleman
C 39 Erie, PA

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On 
Behalf Of Joe at
Zialater via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 11:58 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Joe at Zialater
Subject: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4

My 1975 30-1,  Zia is up for a nice Christmas gift this year - a folding
prop.

Any recommendations for a good folder that will still give me decent
performance in forward and reverse?  I don't know the current two blade prop
specs but she is being pushed by a smooth running Atomic 4.

Thanks for any input - and happy holidays!

Joe Boyle
Zia
Annapolis, MD
j...@zialater.com




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Re: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I have a Gori 2 blade 11.5 x 8 on Windburn, a 77 30-1 with an Atomic 4 ( 
Stevedore ).
My guess is that at 8 it is over pitched but 11.5 x 8 appears to be the 
smallest standard
Gori prop size. I can get to about 6.2 kts into light weather, and can tow 
another 10,000 lb
boat into waves at 5 kts. Reverse is fine though full power at a standstill can 
invoke a lot
of prop walk.

The advantage of being over pitched is that during light motor sailing the 
Atomic 4 is just
above idle, quiet and smooth. 

I have no complaints, though I usually am under auxiliary only coming in and 
out of the club.
If your usage included days of motoring into current and waves and as a cruiser 
you are
carrying more weight ( Windburn is pretty light for racing ) then I would be 
concerned about
the 8 pitch. When I spoke with a Gori rep at the Toronto boat show he mentioned 
they can
make the props at different pitches.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 10:10:28 -0500 
From: cenel...@aol.com 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4 
Message-ID: <151ca3dd4c9-520f-...@webprd-m99.mail.aol.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
 
No two blade prop will do very well in reverse although I would get a geared 
one so that you can be sure that it opened. 
  
If you race, the lowest drag 2 blade demonstrated by tests in Yachting magazine 
was a Gori--which I have used for several years without problems. 
  
It takes a few seconds running in reverse to start 'biting' and moving the boat 
but she will move the boat. Once the boat is moving,  
you start to get some flow over the rudder and can actually steer. 
 
Just be sure you have reasonable room around the boat when you go to reverse. 
 
In my case, I coast to almost a dead stop, put it in reverse and rev the engine 
to get her moving 
in reverse and then steer her toward the slip with judicious use of low 
throttle in reverse or neutral.  
 
Without serious wind or tides, this method works for me--she only goes back 
into forward to stop her in the slip. 
If something messes up this scheme, back to open water and repeat! 
 
Maneuvering in close quarters between reverse and forward with several seconds 
delay is to be avoided with any folding prop IMHO. 
 
Charlie Nelson 
C 36 XL/kcb 
Water Phantom 
  
cenel...@aol.com 
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Re: Stus-List Lines led forward

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Well it seems we have 10 clutches.  5 a side.  Pole up, pole down, reef, main, 
stbd spin on stbd  and port spin, jib, outhaul, vang on port with one spare 
clutch.

We like to keep our Pit person busy!  Note that this is almost identical to the 
setup on the C and 115 that we race.

Add in traveler controls, jib sheets, main sheet and spin sheets and the 
cockpit gets cozy awfully fast!

Mike
Persistence
1987 Frers 33
Halifax, NS

(the other boats are Prospector 2008 C 99 Dundee, NS and Koobalibra 2007 C 
115 Halifax, NS)

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 12:29 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Joel Aronson
Subject: Re: Stus-List Lines led forward

I went for 6 clutches to 9 on the cabin top - 2 jib halyards, 2 spin halyards, 
main halyard, 1 reef line, cunningham, outhaul and topping lift.

I stacked the two original line organizers and found a 4 sheave organizer that 
fit the original holes.

I use these to keep things organized on the bulkhead:

http://ca.binnacle.com/Deck-Hardware-Clips-&-Hangers/c117_226/p10010/BARTON-LINE-TAMER/product_info.html

I also have about 10 of them in the lazarette for spin sheets, etc.

As I said before, I have cam cleats for the spin halyards on the mast.

I like staying in the cockpit!

Joel
35/3
Annapolis



On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Bruno Lachance via CnC-List 
> wrote:
My layout for club racing / cruising (C 33 mkII)

The boat came with double deck organizer, plenty of clutches and four winches 
at the pit (one Barient 21 ST, two 18, one 10)

Main, outaul, Cunningham, vang, first and second reef, jib and spin halyards 
and baby stay, are all led aft.

BUT, i added a spinlock XTS on the mast for the main allowing me to easily 
hoist without messing with the lazyjacks and quickly hook the "reef bone" at 
the mast, tensioning the halyard and reef lines at pit afterward . I also added 
a Spinlock XAS (less tension) on the starboard side of the mast of spin halyard 
for a quick hoist and take down in light winds. I have the choice to leave the 
mast cluthes open to keep control of the halyards at the cockpit. Pole lift is 
at the mast too.

The lines aft allow me to easily and quickly adjust everything from the cockpit 
to tune the sails without having to run to the mast. i like this setup for 
racing and for cruising singlehanded.

Happy holidays everybody. Don't forget to wacht the Sydney Hobart start! :)

Bruno Lachance
Bécassine, '87 C 33 mkII
New-Richmond, Qc




To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 09:17:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Stus-List Lines led forward
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
CC: colt...@verizon.net

MY layout –

SB, Spinnaker and Jib halyard on mast, Main and Cunningham led back to clutches.

Port, Spinnaker led back to clutch, also a cam cleat on mast. Mostly bear away 
sets. Jib halyard at mast, rarely used. Main Outhaul, Vang, & first reef also 
led back to cockpit.

As someone mentioned, mostly we use spinnakers in fairly light air – and, at 
least in my experience, it is blowing like snot when you want to take it down!  
So, having the halyard back at the cockpit allows someone less talented to 
handle the drop.



Bill Coleman

C 39 Erie, PA







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--
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Lines led forward

[Indigo via CnC-List]

I am with you Joel.  The least number of people moving around on deck - 
especially at night - the better. The recent tests by Yachting Monthly (I think 
it was) on the dangers of going overboard while tethered were terrifying.  (I 
need to find a way to run my jack lines midships instead of along the decks - 
in particular where to tie off the jack lines near the cockpit so a crew can 
clip in before leaving the cockpit)

--
Jonathan
Indigo C 35III
SOUTHPORT CT

> On Dec 22, 2015, at 11:28, Joel Aronson via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> I like staying in the cockpit!

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Stus-List Anchor locker lid attachment

[Patrick Davin via CnC-List]

Next up on my winter project list: reinforcing the anchor locker lid
attachment.

C's are made really well for the most part, but I had a "what were they
thinking???" moment this weekend. I was investigating the anchor locker lid
hinge (which is screwed into a recessed area of the deck) because several
screws have pulled out and there are rust stains. The surprise was it looks
like the 15-20 screws for the hinge went into wood coring. Screws in wood
core, in the wettest part of the boat! (the foredeck takes the most waves,
and when at dock it's always humid from rain)

Pictures:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BxfHpwssU_6NQThGM1AzTmxabU0=sharing

Has anyone else redone their anchor locker hinge? Can you confirm that it's
cored, or am I on the crazy pills?

The reason I suspected core in the first place is that the lid hinge is
about 1" outside of the deck area where all fiberglass was used along the
toe rail. Tap testing / sounding doesn't reveal any significant
differences, so I think the issue is very contained, surprisingly. It seems
like if they had made the anchor locker an inch or so wider, they wouldn't
have had to screw in to coring - but maybe the fiberglass layer isn't thick
enough to fit the screws. Anyway, I'm thinking ream out some core from each
hole, dry it out for 3-7 days (which may not be doable till the summer),
fill with thickened epoxy and redrill.

-Patrick
1984 C Landfall 38
Seattle, WA
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Stus-List Anchor locker hinge attachment

[ssjohnson via CnC-List]

Patrickwhen I purchased Alegria in 2006 the survey mentioned wetness in the 
anchor locker and cockpit seat hinges.  I replaced the anchor locker hinges 
with suncor ss hinges thru bolted and beded with butyl tape.  No more leaks.  
To dry them out I brought them home, drilled out the holes, and left them in 
the closing with the furnace...warm, dry, and ventelated. Spencer Johnson84 LF 
38 #165Racine,  WI


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