Re: Application idea: Bicycle computer
On 2 Dec 2007, at 14:41, Christian Surlykke wrote: Hello I'm interested in using the neo1973 as a bicycle-computer, utilizing it's gps abilities. Any comments/insights would be appreciated.. I have a Garmin Forerunner and the battery life is 10 hours. I'm not sure the Neo could last that long? The software is possible, but I'm not sure anyone needs the screen on? it's better to download the stats after a run, not keep looking at the screen and risk an accident or just getting distracted. They say you should look far ahead and not at your front wheel, that way you don't get so tired :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973/OpenMoko as a laptop replacement
AVee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Your not the only one. The Nokia N810 has 2 advantages compare to the NEO, it has a keyboard and a slightly bigger display. However, it does force me to carry two devices, which is a major disadvantage. Maybe one day there will be a NEO like device with a proper foldable display. Or perhaps a build in beamer of some sort. Then add the laser projection keyboard thinkgeek sells and find all hope of a decent battery live is gone ;-) AVee Anyone after a laptop replacement should consider the Asus eeePc. It's Linux based, cheap (£220 UKP) small and fairly rugged. It's a good unit for testing out mobile Linux ideas on since it has a smallish screen (7inch 800x480) and limited storage. It also has only flash storage and so it's close to being a mobile phone in effect. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973/OpenMoko as a laptop replacement
On 15 Nov 2007, at 22:32, Steven ** wrote: But the GTA02 is 400 MHz. I've got a 650 MHz laptop at home that runs Windows XP just fine. That's over 7 years old. I think the 400 MHz processor could handle a lot of the simple apps I'd want while on the move. I plan to use the GTA02 much as Erland describes (minus the lens). -Steven But you're falling for the megahertz myth. The clock speed comparison doesn't work across different processor families. The ARM core is a RISC design that originated in the Acorn Archimedes computer in the mid 80s. But there are many different core designs each with different MHz requirements. It was the XScale which brought in the high clock speeds, but they were slower than the previous Intel ARM chips that were half the clock speed. Anyway, so long as you're running Linux and complex apps designed for the desktop then you may not achieve the speed of a laptop. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko phone comparisons
On 11 Nov 2007, at 17:33, Peter Naulls wrote: For price comparison, the UTC is about $350 and Neo is $450. HTC Universal? If you want one of these get one, but OpenMoko is far from being as reliable and complete as the Windows Mobile OS on it. It's a rather large phone, not exactly a fast device (it's a few years out of date now) and the final Neo device will be faster in numerous ways. Perhaps a Nokia N800 or N810 is what you need at this time? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is Google developing a phone after all?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : 1) I think Google IS developing their own phone after all 2) I think that phone will be based on the Qualcomm MSM7K 3) I think Android will be using Kastor as a rendering engine 4) If so, Android will look a lot like the Kastor demos on tat's website. (e.g. http://www.tat.se/images/demo/kastor_platform_01.mp4) It's probably a reference platform and one for developers. A bare minimum specification. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Innovative user interface idea
On 20 Oct 2007, at 18:41, Ron Jeffries wrote: We all love to hate Microsoft, but they have a good idea with the soon to arrive Windows Mobile 6.1 completely revised user interface. http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/rumors/ windows_mobile_61_coming_with.html We need to focus on usability if OpenMoko is to become more than just a geek/nerd plaything. Quite frankly, that carousel interface looks awful. WM smartphone has a good interface, it just needed animations and some polish. The touchscreen version of WM is what needs the work and that carousel would be an awful interface for a touch screen. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some ideas for the accelerometer
Dietz Proepper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Wouldn't it be more comfortable to simply knock at the pocket (and therefore the phone), detect the acceleration of the shock and shut off the bell? I'm sure such an idea is on the wiki already, if not add it. I like the accelerometer, so many possibilities. I want to nudge the phone to wake it up. Would need to be configurable since you won't want it waking up when it's in your pocket. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: application idea -- anti theft system
On 13 Oct 2007, at 00:09, Derek Pressnall wrote: I have an idea for a simple alarm application. The idea is that if you leave your phone sitting at your desk plugged in charging, then you can activate an app that will play an alrarm sound as soon as the devices is unplugged (with a popup keypad to enter a disarm code). A variant would use the gps to determine if the phone has moved more than a few feet from where you left it. All these ideas and more are on the wiki. You're not alone in thinking of the posibilities. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
On 6 Oct 2007, at 18:06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been following OpenMoko for nearly a year now and the thought has only just struck me - There's no camera! Even the GTA02 seems to be missing a camera. Surely if this is intended to be aimed at consumers a camera is a must? If you look on Nokia's website they have 35 phones listed. Filter that by with camera and you get 30. Consumers want cameras and no consumer is going to buy a phone without one?? When the Neo is finally launched as a consumer product (say early 2009) it's not going to matter how open it is or how many 3rd party apps there are - People will not buy a phone without a camera. I think the whole project is in real danger of being a very big, expensive flop. Please, someone put my mind at rest! :-) Search the archives, this discussion has taken place many many times. Needless to say there won't be a camera as standard since the case tooling can't be altered at this stage. If every design change requested were to be incorporated then the Neo would be the since of a laptop and would be ready in 10 years time. A survey on The Register (UK site) had camera at the lowest required feature with about 25% of people saying they need one and 25% saying the couldn't care less. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
On 6 Oct 2007, at 19:39, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The neo will not penetrate the consumer market without a camera. Not a chance. So, intentional or otherwise, the neo is going to be a geek's toy and nothing more. What a shame. It won't anyway, it's always going to be a power users toy. It's not a branded device and many people buy on contract. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
On 6 Oct 2007, at 20:21, Dylan McCall wrote: Think of it in terms of modularity. You do not have to carry and think about a camera which will quickly become obsolete (or is already obsolete) compared to superior cameras that are available. Phone cameras are almost uniformly terrible, because they are tacked on as extra features with really no impact on the usability of the phone. They also take up a lot of room and unless you go for a premium model with decent optics then they're just a gimmic. SLR photography is a hobby and even an APS-C sensor is seen as just good enough. Canon and now Nikon both have 35mm sensors on some of their camera models. So there's no way a tiny sensor in a phone is ever going to be useful for much more than drunken shots in a pub/bar. You can get tiny VGA cameras that fit on your keychain if you desperately need a camera. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
On 6 Oct 2007, at 20:50, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So there's no way a tiny sensor in a phone is ever going to be useful for much more than drunken shots in a pub/ bar. I agree, and I'm sure that's what most phone cameras are used for. But people want to be able to take awful quality photos of their mates family doing stupid things, spur of the moment. winmail.dat Everyone I see taking such shots are using a compact camera. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Camera???
On 6 Oct 2007, at 21:05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, you mean you've never seen anyone using the camera on their phone before? The little blighters are everywhere I seem to go. Usually at concerts, idiots watching the whole concert through a 2.5 inch screen instead of watching the band. When I see people in clubs and pubs they have compacts, the reason being you need a proper flash or an SLR to get a good picture in low light. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: UI responsiveness, Hope its not like new Blackberry
On 3 Oct 2007, at 20:17, Michael wrote: Recently tried out the new Blackberry 8300, that a customer had purchased, and I almost wanted to throw it in the bin, but of course it was not mine. When you roll the ball there is about a quarter second delay before the indicator moves to the next icon, which means it hard to move to an icon quickly like in Marble Madness. Now I don't know if it is just me, but I just could not get used to that. Maybe it is because I am used to playing video games but if a Spectrum could do it at 3.5MHz then I dont see why an 8300 cant do it at 312MHz. So, I was just hoping that the OpenMoko UI will at least have an instant response, even if this means you have to put up an egg timer to say that the system is busy and cannot respond straight away. Michael. Qtopia on the Neo1973 seems very responsive. OpenMoko less so, but I'm sure it will improve. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: AW: Apple's heavy hand an opportunity for Linux smartphones like OpenMoko
On 1 Oct 2007, at 15:52, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Friend, which type of drugs do you use to loose reality and fairness? People have different views on the world (even without drugs). And different goals for their life (e.g. Earn lots of $$$ vs. Freedom for Everything). Therefore, their conclusions what is correct and the right thing is different. It does not help the OpenMoko project in ANY WAY to insult Steve Jobs personally. What helps is to be a different (and better) product than e.g. the iPhone and others. Nikolaus Schaller Indeed, if you were on the money Steve is, had the lifestyle he does then you'd do all to protect it. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Apple's heavy hand an opportunity for Linux smartphones like OpenMoko
On 28 Sep 2007, at 14:12, Ian Darwin wrote: BBC NEWS | Technology | Apple iPhone warning proves true http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7017660.stm With 40% of phone call money going to Apple then can you blame them? it will ruin their business model. Not that it's an expensive phone to make anyway. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Apple's heavy hand an opportunity for Linux smartphones like OpenMoko
On 28 Sep 2007, at 22:03, Jeremy G wrote: While we're on the topic, check out the recent Gizmodo iPhone re- review: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/iphone/iphone-re+reviewed-verdict-dont- buy-302075.php There's some serious dis-satisfaction brewing among the iPhone geek community. J. That's the problem, Apple doesn't want anyone to play around with their product. They're really moving towards the console market where the manufacturer thinks they own your product even though you paid them for it. It will backfire, Apple will wonder why they are losing sales and that pot of cash they were filling will soon run out. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Apple's heavy hand an opportunity for Linux smartphones like OpenMoko
On 28 Sep 2007, at 23:39, Mike wrote: Yea, and then they'll just open it up. Problem solved. Flick of a switch, a firmware upgrade at most. Depends how big the negative reaction is. Apple rather wishes they didn't have to let people write software for the Mac. They would sooner write everything and not have badly written software crashing on their OS. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Apple's heavy hand an opportunity for Linux smartphones likeOpenMoko
On 29 Sep 2007, at 00:52, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Very true, BUT... and this is a big but FIC or some other smart manufacturer has to clone the iPhone's form factor details and performance points. I have lived with my iPhone now for a few weeks and I simply LOVE it. I bought TWO more for my wife and daughter. Yes, the software IS a big part of it, but the hardware design is NOT to be discounted here. What design? it's square, no keyboard and one button on front. Plenty of phones around with such simplicity. The software and interface design are what counts, many phones have a simple design with minimal buttons but run a desktop style interface (eg. Windows Mobile). This doesn't work. You need to forget pretty much everything you know about desktop computers before you tackle a UI design for a handheld device. This is why Tablet PC didn't take off, why UMPC's are very niche. If an OS is designed for WIMP, you need the keyboard and mouse. The iPhone is very ordinary hardware (even the screen res is bettered by the Neo) wrapped up in a nice casing with some well thought out software. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Apple's heavy hand an opportunity for Linux smartphones likeOpenMoko
On 29 Sep 2007, at 01:47, Pius A. Uzamere II wrote: Once you put a crappy form factor into the market, however, you're typically finished in the long term. Remember, your competitors can iterate their software faster than you can iterate your form factor once units are put into production. The iPhone is a big phone, bigger isn't always better. Yes it's good to be big when using fingers, but we have to do the best we can. OpenMoko isn't just the Neo either, there are bigger screened phones around. The big competitive advantage is innovation and freedom, we can add features that would be deemed too costly to write. No hardware needs to become obselete just to keep hardware revenues coming. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 4 GB SD flash card does not work
Ole Tange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : It does not show up in /dev. Sounds like kernel/driver or hardware issues. Probably best to log a bug in the bugzilla and supply your dmesg output. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Help Request for our Webshop
On 23 Sep 2007, at 15:02, Vincent wrote: I guess that is the reason why Sean asked for something new preferably without PHP. In PHP it is much easier to mix everything than to use a clear MVC concept (although someone could argue that a single PHP script contains all M=MySQL, V=HTML, C=PHP)... If you make use of a PHP framework then it is perfectly possible to use a clear MVC concept. Let's hope they find a solution that is better and does not draw too much from the development budget and time they have. Developing something new from scratch would IMHO also be a waste of resources and does not guarantee that it is finished within a reasonable timeframe (e.g. October where we all await new devices to ship :-). My comments are they it's better to use an commerce engine that gets regular security testing and patches. If you roll your own then you need to be proactive in monitoring the system for intrusion attempts. Decent security testing and auditing costs money. If you use an existing engine and you get hacked then you have someone to sue if they were incompetent. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Help Request for our Webshop
On 23 Sep 2007, at 15:35, Vincent wrote: And surely, you mean someone to hold responsible instead of someone to sue? Especially if we're talking about an open source project... Who says you should use open source? It's great when it comes to doing free development and community stuff. But when it comes to making money you have to look for the safest, cheapest and highest performing product. If you get defrauded of thousands then a simple I'm sorry from an open source developer isn't enough. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Help Request for our Webshop
On 23 Sep 2007, at 16:20, Vincent wrote: I didn't, but it is an option I presume. Things like the amount of security auditing, speed of notification of security risks and fix times are important. Most web applications are open source by the very nature that they are usually written in scripting languages. No, but having him repay the damages isn't what I'd find comforting either. And anyway, as Ian said: most third parties will have a disclaimer and open source projects are mostly delivered as is, without warranty of any kind, so you won't have someone to sue anyway. Mistakes happen. What I think will be difficult is writing a new site engine without repeating all the security issues identified over the years in other projects. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: interface design suggestions
On 23 Sep 2007, at 22:17, Dani Anon wrote: Hi I was thinking on getting an openmoko when it's done and probably developing a couple of apps but before that I think there is a big problem with the current graphic design so I thought I'd contribute a mockup and some thoughts. I think you should look at the latest version of the interface, the interface you have altered isn't present in the new release now. Also, I think the colour scheme you have chosen isn't any better. Too many colours and making the dropdowns appear the same as the headings (instead of having them in 3d relief) is confusing, when something is clickable it should appear different to something that is not. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: interface design suggestions
On 23 Sep 2007, at 23:06, Dani Anon wrote: I find exactly the same flaws I'm talking about in what you call the new interface. Maybe we are not looking to the same thing? Could you provide an screenshot of the new interface or tell me how my suggestions aren't relevant anymore? And the header thing is obviously something I didn't do along the missing things I mentioned but I forgot to mention that particular detail. As I said, it's work in progress, but I wanted to discuss this beforehand cause I don't have much time for something that isn't going to be used. Dani See the bottom screenshot on this page: http://blogs.gnome.org/thos/2007/08/21/openmoko-20072/ You might try and get a Linux box and QEMU so you can run the software to have play. Personally I think the graphic design isn't important, people will easily fix any issues as it's easy to create icons and good looking images. The hardest thing to fix and get right is the way the interface works and behaves. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [-SPAM-] Re: application idea
David Pottage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : But is the data freely available, or is it constrained by copyright or the like. In the UK, postcode (zipcode) data is restricted by copyright, and the post office makes money selling licenses to users. Even if we could get the data, we could not freely distribute it. I'm not particularly bothered about free solutions to making sat nav work on the Neo. If someone can make the Tomtom map data and postcode file work on the Neo it would be good. It's not that expensive to get a licence for these day. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
Mauro Iazzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : before someone beats me to it. http://trolltech.com/company/newsroom/announcements/press.2007-09-17.9260755578 Ironic given one of their Greenphone guys was slagging the OpenMoko project a while back. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
Michael Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Hi, great news, but what does this mean? We need a posting of the projekt management, will Neo s Menue switch to QT? This means a GTK application will not work? Or: Any QT-Applicaiton will work now automatically? Quite simply if you have an X server running and you launch an app using QT it will read the libraries and launch. Same with a GTK app. Of course there may not be room in the ROM for both, but it's possible to install the libraries on a memory card and use a symbolic link or entry in the library path so they can be found. Typically the argument for QT is ease of programming, there's a good IDE called KDevelop. GTK's argument typically is that it's GPL and faster. OpenMoko should stick to what it is doing already. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
On 18 Sep 2007, at 21:39, Lorn Potter wrote: That greenphone guy was me. and if you read that actual post, I made no 'slagging' remarks about OpenMoko or their project. Some of my friends and colleagues, whom are very great engineers work for OpenMoko. The point I was making about that post is that the Neo was not the first open phone... It just seems odd that you were suggesting OpenMoko wasn't that open, yet Qtopia was? yet it's all happy families now? I don't mind, it's just a very surprising move and IMHO a very welcome one. The mobile market is a hard one to succeed in, almost as bad as the games console market. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Plea to developers: Make data for all applications available to scripting languages
On 16 Sep 2007, at 10:04, Jim McDonald wrote: Only if the database supports concurrent access by multiple processes, which most don't. You'd be better off supporting a single standard API to obtain the obvious data such as contacts/ calendar/todos (EDS being the one that I believe that the developers have settled on). Which leads to a question: is there some way to extend the information held for each EDS entity so that calendar entries contacts and the like can have additional (arbitrary) fields? Some databases have a locking mechanism, you can lock the table while you update it, the other process would get queued. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 3 requests/questions for Openmoko: DVB-T / Buddylist / Batman-Mesh
On 16 Sep 2007, at 19:51, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote: To focus on tv support before movie playback support would be strange. Right now it is important to get the software fast and stable, and add basic support for sms, phone calls, etc. This is only my opinion. Indeed and I've had a phone with TV and it was totally rubbish. It's hard enough getting a decent phone signal on the move sometimes never mind TV? You also run into issues of licencing, the TV phone I used required a licence fee each month, there's no way they would allow such a thing to be open source compatible as people would be able to hack it. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 3 requests/questions for Openmoko: DVB-T / Buddylist / Batman-Mesh
On 16 Sep 2007, at 22:16, Michael Schmidt wrote: DVB-T does not need any licence agreement, it is just terrestrial recieving on a phone. Therefore the display should be bigger... So this requires not a media player, but as well some hardware adjusting, a DVB-T Reciever chip and a bigger display. It's DVB-H not DVB-T on a handheld. We've yet to see how each country handles the system. DVB-T has conditional access for some channels in the UK. Not sure about DVB-H. There are higher priorities at this time. It needs hardware adding to the phone which joins a large list of other things people are asking for. Some people want media, some want messaging, others want compactness, others wants gaming, others want GPS etc... To add all results in a swiss army knife type phone, bulky. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iPhone SIMlock broken :)
On 15 Sep 2007, at 19:12, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is a great deal to learn from the iPhone, both in the things Apple has done right, and the things they have missed or done wrong. I would encourage all OpenMoko developers who have the means, to get their hands on one and play with it. As indicated below, this email was sent from my unlocked iPhone operating on T-Mobile's US GSM network. Sent from my iPhone Ie. Get the basics right and working solidly. As much effort as possible needs to be put into getting the phone and SMS functionality working, otherwise this phone is inferior to even a low end motorola. I think this is what everyone wishes for right now? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Plea to developers: Make data for all applications available to scripting languages
On 15 Sep 2007, at 22:53, J F wrote: What I would like to see is ALL programs having a way of getting at their data from a scripting language. I don't know if it makes sense to have some guidelines for developers to make it easier for this information to be got at. This would be for someone more competent than me to suggest. Quite simply, if long term storage utilises and embedded database then so long as the scripting language can access it then it will be fine. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: application idea
On 12 Sep 2007, at 20:30, Jeff Andros wrote: Last night, while I was looking at the monsoon blowing just outside the heat-island... in my open-top jeep... I had an application idea: GPS based weather feeds. on a schedule/when you move into a new area, the phone will go out to a server and retrieve the weather information for the area you're in. being able to glance at the today screen and see up-to-date weather data would be nice What you suggest are what people call Location Based Services and there's plenty of ideas for such things. Find local services, taxi, food, hotel. Warn of weather. Local news. Have a read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Location-based_service ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The problem with touch screens
On 11 Sep 2007, at 17:27, Alexey Feldgendler wrote: http://blogs.s60.com/browser/2007/08/ the_problem_with_touch_screens.html The point of the article is that touch screens lack the tactile feedback that's inherent to physical buttons. I wonder if it's possible to simulate some of that feedback using the vibrator built into Neo. If the buttons are big enough and it beeps then it's not so bad. I wouldn't want the vibrating action to cause someone to drop the phone. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The problem with touch screens
On 11 Sep 2007, at 18:11, Alexey Feldgendler wrote: I once tried a mouse with tactile feedback (built-in vibrator). I could actually feel the buttons I hovered the cursor over as being embossed; it felt like moving the mouse over a non-flat relief rather than simply vibration. The Wii remote does it on the Wii menus, but it causes aches after a while so I turned it off. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The problem with touch screens
In the wii GUI the controller will vibrate briefly when the cursor moves into a clickable area, so the user knows they can now click the button. With a touchscreen though, when the user taps in the clickable area, the click has already happened. There's no need to alert the user that they are in a clickable area. It might be good to alert the user that there was a click though. As you say, it should be something you can turn off. Sound is better than vibration, you can use different tones. A vibration motor can't make much variation. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Advanced dev kit
On 11 Sep 2007, at 21:01, poncenby wrote: I've ordered the Neo Advanced GTA-01, which has not been delivered yet, and was wondering whether the development hardware/software which comes in this kit will be compatible/usable for development on the GTA-02 phone? I don't suppose there is a way of tracking shipments or a contact for trying to track down where my GTA-01 is? Many thanks Even Palm hardware can be used for development. Openmoko isn't just for the Neo hardware. While I'm sure many will get the second release of hardware, I'm sure many will still use the GTA-01 for development, possibly carrying the GTA-02 for proper use. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ATT is cruising for a bruising
Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : This not because Apple or ATT are evil. It's actually a bug (or call it a design shortcoming) and could happen to anyone. I'd actually call it ignorance or lack of information from Apple. Apple like to make things simple even though the underlying technology is complex, this minimalistic approach often results in lack of feedback to the user. OpenMoko should probably include some system-wide network access management that avoids huge roaming bills. Quite simply, build in a data counter that you can enter the cost of a data unit and have the phone show you your costs incurred. But also be able to deny access to all or specific applications. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ATT is cruising for a bruising
Sander Van Grieken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Nah it should be more advanced than that. True, but start with the basics. You have to build the logging into the GPRS code. GPRS+roaming - only check mail once a day, only download headers. no images download when browsing GPRS+no roaming - check mail 4 times a day, download full mail but skip attachments 2MB Wifi+at home - no limits public wifi - use VPN/SSH tunneling wifi+in china - use Tor etc That can all be done via profiles. Have a profiles screen with Sound, Data and Radio options. But you need to provide a global setting for things like Email, Web etc.. then allow the applications themselves to be able to read these settings and be notified when they change. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Yet another keypad idea
On 8 Sep 2007, at 13:30, OJW wrote: Just playing with another idea for text-entry: http://almien.co.uk/Keypad/ The idea is to be able to type mixed letters / numbers / symbols / control-characters without having to look at the screen when typing. It takes a while to pick-up, but should be easy to use once you see how it works. Only implemented as a javascript demo for now, but imagine it as finger-app (perhaps transparently overlaid on an application). Only tested on firefox, sorry! Regards, OJW I can see what you are trying to do, but can you provide any figures on text entry speed. The reason I ask it I believe there's no way that your method will be any faster than T9. T9 persists for a good reason, it's fast and proven. Anything new has to be faster and easier to use. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Yet another keypad idea
On 8 Sep 2007, at 14:01, OJW wrote: On Saturday 08 September 2007 13:44, Thomas Gstädtner wrote: Interesting concept, but I can't see an advantage to the standard numeric keypads. Maybe you can enlighten me? :) Compared to the standard 444 for I, for S-type of keypad, it's ease of learning/remembering the keystrokes (based on visual shapes of the letters, rather than arbitrarily splitting-up the alphabet). Maybe it's only me who has difficulty remembering those without looking at the keypad. Thing is there are 26 characters in the alphabet and 10 digits, that's a lot of shapes to remember. The Graffiti (TM) input method used some special characters, but many of the shapes were the same. I don't see how pressing three keys for one letter is faster than predictive? Adding it as an input option is fine, but make T9 the default as people know it, you don't want to add any obstacles to usability by not having familiar tried and tested input methods available. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Yet another keypad idea
On 8 Sep 2007, at 14:47, OJW wrote: On Saturday 08 September 2007 14:17, Giles Jones wrote: I don't see how pressing three keys for one letter is faster than predictive? As a contrived example, try typing http://example.com/~user; using predictive text For URLs you're best providing a custom method for entry yes. For the web you can have a www button and a combo with .com, .co.uk, .org and others which the user can predefine. You minimise typing that way and T9 does work for the domain name, you can hold a button to produce a list of symbols (Windows Mobile does this, it works quite well). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Apple is going to beat all competitors
On 7 Sep 2007, at 19:51, ian douglas wrote: Andreas Utterberg wrote: Better to get it out now with more bugs, then later with less bugs. I disagree: having *any* noticeable bugs in a release product will bring a lot of criticism. Having more bugs just to get a release out the door will generate a lot of bad press about the efforts put in by everyone on the team, and will discourage a lot of people from trying the Neo. Depends on the bugs. Data corruption/loss must not be present, always failsafe. Phone calls must always be possible, no call should ever be dropped due to a bug. Text messages should not be sent due to a bug (again, failsafe), I've had this in a Windows Mobile phone where it repeatedly sent out the same message due to a bug. Cosmetic and minor bugs can exist in the product. No severity 1 (highest), 2, or 3 bugs. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: A guestion
Andreas Utterberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Hello Community of OpenmokoDoes anybody know if the device in october is the same device up for sale onopenmoko.com today? And will that device have the same developer support as the 1973? So one can flash it and write apps to it?Thanx in advancebr Andutt The next version has minor differences, improved graphics, wifi, one speaker instead of two, different GPS chip, less hardware bugs (hopefully). It can be programmed and upgraded the same as the current version. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Myth Busting FTW
On 6 Sep 2007, at 18:45, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think there was demand, but if you look at how the number of posts on this list has been downhill since a little after its release, I think people might have changed their minds.. This is why I changed my mind - I have no interest in using this phone until it has a reliable dialer. Until then you cant really call it a phone... I just put mine on the shelf in its super cool looking bullet proof case and maybe someday I will take it down and try to mess with it.. IMHO it takes a long time, too long to get the feel of the build system. Then you hit build problems and if you don't have much time to devote due to work commitments it is tough. If the build and development was possible using a Gnome IDE it would save a lot of time. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 4 GB SD flash card does not work
On 5 Sep 2007, at 22:27, Ole Tange wrote: I just got a 4 GB SD flash card. It seems this does not work. It may just be this model though. SanDisk 4GB microSDHC 07190023400ZC So if you try it out with a 4GB card, try to get another one. In a SD adapter it works in a computer running Microsoft Windows. It does not work in my 2 cameras and also not in a Linux machine that is newer than the Windows machine. I have a feeling it might just be a driver issue. /Ole Does it show up at all or just doesn't mount? you may need to format as ext3 if it doesnt mount. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gpsd and AGPS
Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Am I getting it right that while GTA01 used to contain a GPS receiver, GTA02 doesn't have one? I think he was referring to the fact that he works for broadcom and it would be easier for him to advice if it did. GTA01 and GTA02 have a Global locate chipset. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SMedia 3362
Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Why do you think we have spent many weeks, if not months to meet with each and every graphics chip vendor? We're not that stupid, eh. It was a very painful and long process to finally find one company that was not fundamentally opposed to free software drivers. one in the entire industry. Not stupid, just wondering why an open phone shouldn't be totally open, even if that means keeping certain things simple? Better optimising the 2D and having full control over the video hardware than having a 3D unit you can't hack. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SMedia 3362
Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : So are you claiming the open source drivers that we are writing are not open source, merely by the fact that we are writing them? Using this argument, the entire openmoko software stack would not be open source, because we are writing it. I misunderstand the announcement over these drivers then. It wasn't clear that these would be released as source or if they would be a binary like the GSM and GPS. If you're writing these but referring to NDA documents and the drivers will be open source then there's no problem at all. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gpsd and AGPS
Mikko J Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Sigh. Broadcom acquired Global Locate. However, for whichever reasons, GTA02 will have a different GPS chip. On the IRC channel, I heard that the new chip/vendor is more co-operative with free software, at least. That's good then. Sorry but not all of us have the time to spend on the IRC channel. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SMedia 3362
Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Well... not speaking for Giles, but the drivers I've seen for closed chipsets have generally involved a thin open-source wrapper around a closed binary driver. Letting you write a real open-source driver while demanding NDA to see the specs you're writing the driver to seems odd on their part (but much better than the norm!). It's odd and the only reason why I thought it was strange to go with this chip. I'm much happier now it's going to open source, seems like this is a good choice. It helps people maintain the driver if they have the code. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How snappy can the Openmoko GUI get using GTK?
On 3 Sep 2007, at 18:32, Andy Poling wrote: I haven't seen anyone else mention the obvious: some of the device drivers and alot of the code have debugging output enabled. Start the X server manually, and watch the debugging info spew forth, and you'll get an idea where a bunch of CPU cycles are going. As an example, every stylus press results in at least 4 debugging msgs printed, something happening in a place I would consider latency-sensitive. In addition various things complain constantly of missing icon image files, etc... things that would surely be cached if they were present, and those complaints take cycles. It's all appropriate in a development environment - we just have to factor that in when considering the responsiveness of the device. IMO it's appropriate for the primary focus to be functionality and the secondary focus to be user interaction effectiveness at this point. I've found that using a stylus seems to help it recognise touches, maybe someone has tweaked something so finger presses don't register as easily? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How snappy can the Openmoko GUI get using GTK?
On 2 Sep 2007, at 14:57, denis wrote: Watching a lot of videos about Openmoko and the GUI I saw that it is very slow and yards away from being snappy. (regarding the application startup and the acting inside an application) I know that speed is not the priority thing in developement at the moment but how fast and snappy can the Openmoko GUI using GTK get? I'm looking at this from the user point of view, I'm not a developer so it would be very interesting to me what can be expected in the future. What are you're expectations? Will it get as snappy as the old PALM Pdas had been? I'm really looking forward for your answers. Regards, Denis. Launch speed is something that can be fixed, I'm not sure if the build system is using pre-linking? if not it will be something to use as this is the cure to application launch speed delays on Unix like systems. The interface is VGA and so there's a lot more to draw and this makes the GUI less responsive than QVGA. The acceleration in the next gen hardware will solve this. The Palm PDAs were using task switching, it wasn't a full multitasking OS, so you have to realise that a Linux based PDA will always lag behind a very simple OS. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How snappy can the Openmoko GUI get using GTK?
On 2 Sep 2007, at 15:58, Ted Lemon wrote: This is definitely not true. I mean, it's true that the QVGA is going to take less time to paint, but paint times aren't the problem - if they were, kinetic scrolling wouldn't look so nice. No, there's something else going on that's making the UI so unresponsive. Possibly something is timing out, or something's running in lock-step that should be asynchronous. VGA is 4x times the data, not two times. That will have a noticable effect. The only VGA device I have owned was a Toshiba E800 PDA, this had an ATI chip and it was still a little sluggish. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SMedia 3362
On 1 Sep 2007, at 16:07, Ian Stirling wrote: Shawn Rutledge wrote: Is there any technical info available about this chip? Is there an X driver for it, or one in progress? There is as I understand it at the moment only a dumb driver for it, using it as a framebuffer. Unfortunately, documents are only available under NDA. This means that only FIC can write the drivers. Seems like an odd choice of unit then for an open source phone. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SMedia 3362
On 1 Sep 2007, at 17:11, Mikko Rauhala wrote: You're implying there are better choices... I wouldn't know since I've not looked into such things. But ATI have mobile GPUs and are open sourcing desktop drivers, maybe they would do the same for their mobile devices? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SMedia 3362
On 1 Sep 2007, at 19:15, Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote: So if you want to use Linux on anything avoid ATI. Well Intel seem to be getting praise on the graphics front for their support of open source. They've licenced PowerVR for embedded chips, so who knows. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
On 28 Aug 2007, at 21:43, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) Shape. The hemisphere on the bottom of the GTA01/02 phone will not allow the phone to remain upright in a breast pocket. It will always cant to one side or the other. The bottom needs to be pretty much squared off. Indeed, I had a Mio A701 for 10 months, served me pretty well and the Neo reminds me of it. But as you can see, this is squared off. Would be a good inspiration for a future Neo, but obviously make the Neo better :) Photo of it here: http://www.mio-tech.be/en/gps-navigation-device-Mio-A701-overview.htm ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Open moko round bottom Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
On 28 Aug 2007, at 23:01, GWMobile wrote: Sounds like a great market for a small plastic slip on square bottom piece to solve the problem. Or shirts with a rounded pocket, or a case with clip. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Power on device after being powered down
On 27 Aug 2007, at 14:15, Krzysztof Kajkowski wrote: I wonder that this could be serioul hickup after going public... I can already see all those frustrated users who left their phones for night and in the morning they cannot make important phone call. And they have to wait for 4 hours just to turn fast charging! That is not very practical. Indeed, most people don't care about the technical reasons for it. It's to be expected that the power management when the device is switched on may be weak, but why does the battery drain so fast when it's switched off? Do we need to remove the battery to ensure the phone is definitely powered down? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
On 27 Aug 2007, at 13:56, Attila Csipa wrote: e! Actually, considering the postage and customs costs of OpenMoko, it is roughly the same for my location which not Antarctica but practically the center of Europe :( I'm in Europe and the greenphone is about twice the cost. You have to add in the price of the SDK and licences too. It's a really unimpressive deal. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software
On 27 Aug 2007, at 16:05, Attila Csipa wrote: Again, if you're a business and developing commercial software, the cost of a SDK means nothing to you - quite the contrary of the case if you are a tinkerer-open phone enthusiast. If you look closely at the licenses, you'll see that you only really need to pay for licenses and SDKs if you plan on developing proprietary, NON-GPL phone applications or you need professional support - nothing wrong with that either, IMO. It means a heck of a lot if you can't earn back the outlay. Mobile software isn't always that lucrative and there's pretty much no installed userbase for the greenphone at present and probably won't ever be a huge market. It's a take it or leave it colour, not a brand people know and if the consumer pricing is like the developer version it will cost too much. GPS software is probably the killer application and the engines plus map data cost even more. Plus what if you get the SDK and then find the platform unworkable simply because you don't get the available APIs you need? That's a precisely 100 Euros of difference, which is hardly twice the cost... You're not comparing like with like, since Openmoko gives you all the source and freedom. You would need full commercial licence of the greenphone to get similar freedom. Not to mention the OpenMoko has some better components, plus GPS. The cost of the greenphone isn't justified, its hardware is like average HTC (but with touch screen). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Power on device after being powered down
On 27 Aug 2007, at 01:18, wim delvaux wrote: I powered down my device a couple of days ago. I want to power it back on ... HOW Remove battery for 10 seconds and replace. Charge phone for 4 hours. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Yet another finger keybord (gui mock-up).
On 27 Aug 2007, at 01:39, Richard Reichenbacher wrote: Well if this phone is going to make some kind of impact on the cellular industry it needs to offer simple and easy to use text input primarily intended for sms, adding contacts, etc. Coders are in the minority here. 90% of the time you're not going to be programming for the phone anyways, you're going to be texting or adding tasks and contacts. I think a minute rule applies, if someone who's used a smartphone before can pick up a phone using openmoko and use the basic features in under a minute then it's all pretty well designed and logical Obviously people who are used to awful interfaces like UIQ might struggle at first :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Buying Openmoko GTA02 from Europe
Andy Loughran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : My gut feeling was that Vodafone would probably be one of the last providers to support/distribute a linux-based 'open' phone given their reputation fro crippling devices with their own version of the software, none the less I also felt that the attempt was worth a shot - and hopefully he will see the potential of the device. They can cripple and completely adjust the phone to suit their needs. All other phones have copyrights and patents on their phone. Also, now that HTC don't want their phones rebadged there's room for another supplier who doesn't mind. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FM Radio
Ian Stirling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : It's valuable if it's very cheap or free. But it's another chip on the already large board. There's a wifi/bluetooth/fm combo chip from Broadcom which could be considered, subject to research into the open-ness of it (historically they've been closed). FM radios are cheap, I have one the size of an earphone. DAB radios are more useful given the number of extra channels. There's no end of features you could implement, mobile TV would be another feature now that the EU have standardised on a format. I suggested TMC simply because we are unlikely to see an open source turn by turn routing system for the GPS in this device, so we could at least have an application which could alert you of potential traffic issues ahead (would be a case of determining if you progressing towards a hotspot and displaying an alert). --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FM Radio
Nicolas Bougues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : It would be really cool to have RDS on a portable FM tuner. However, I'm afraid RDS requires very good signal quality, which may, or not, be reachable using a mobile device. Many PDA GPS solutions have RDS. I've had RDS work on a mobile device with FM. They all use the headphone socket and cable for an aerial. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FM Radio
Ian Stirling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : As to why not carry a seperate radio. It's another thing to lose, charge, and get tangled in my pocket. It doesn't vibrate to remind me when my favourite show is on. It needs batteries charged. It can't timeshift programs. It can't broadcast sound over bluetooth. Calls can't break into radio I'm listening to. It can't compress quiet programs to a high average volume. True, but I'd rather such things were just the icing on the cake. If you're going to add extra chips there are much more important features that the Neo phone needs to be competitive and or best of breed. 3G HSDPA Large internal flash storage (4GB plus) USB2 High quality video recording VOIP (transparent switching from GSM to VOIP) I can buy a FM radio easily, but I can't buy 3G seperately and any of the above features easily apart from the memory (but having a free slot is very useful). --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
On 23 Aug 2007, at 18:11, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why am I putting up with all this frustration reading about others who -have- their phones and why should I not just cancel my order?? Convince me. A few points, it's always been a developer release and a somewhat experimental project. Secondly, you really need hardware to work on certain things. The hardware exhibits bugs and problems QEMU doesn't. Are you actively developing? if not then you can probably wait. I'm trying to develop, but getting a working build of 2007.2 has taken a few days, it seems like much of the core stuff I wished to contribute to has been designed and is owned now. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Balancing simplicity with complexity
Hi all, Having tried 2007.2 it's a great improvement and moves the phone a long way into looking like a product. I have some usability improvement suggestions that I will propose at some point. Will the old 2007 be phased out? it's never going to get finished given most people will want to develop 2007.2 and beyond. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Really hard to keep the device usable
Wim Delvaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : the dialout caused the device to go black again and now I cannot get it on regardless what I do with the power button. I wonder how I can reset the device ? Have you tried removing the battery for 10 seconds, then replacing the battery and charging the phone for 4 hours? --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPL projects from Nokia
On 21 Aug 2007, at 18:50, Giles Jones wrote: Hi all, Anyone taken a look at these projects? thought there may be things of use here. http://opensource.nokia.com/projects/index.html Just thought, will be Symbian based stuff, doh. I guess some of the bluetooth protocol stuff might port over. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GPL projects from Nokia
Hi all, Anyone taken a look at these projects? thought there may be things of use here. http://opensource.nokia.com/projects/index.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WiFi vs. speaker
Mark Haury [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : C'mon, guys, do you _really_ need that big hole right through the case? Why don't you keep the stereo speakers and put the WiFi in that wasted space instead The GSM antenna is next to the hole, not the best place for a wifi module. I do agree with the comment about stereo, it is one feature a lot of phones lack and there's a few that have stereo which makes ringtone playback clearer. If you're clever you can make ringtones where the bass is in the left and the rest of the signal in the right. Should be clearer with some music. You won't see any case changes as it has been stated previously that changing the tooling would be too expensive (this is a new project and it needs to grow gradually). My comments on the Neo1973 hardware are below, I like this phone and want it to succeed, but at the same time being critical makes something better. If you aren't critical about a product before it gets to the press then you probably care more about money than success. I don't really want to start off flamewars or have some of these design decisions explained to me as I don't think many of them can be explained (other than carelessness or for form factor reasons). Please just take the points on board when designing future hardware. Likes: It's light for its size. I like the rubberised surface, hard wearing. VGA screen is superb. No creaks or rattles. Open source :) Generous accessories for the price. Seemingly decent headphones. Dislikes: Back cover design is terrible and will easily break, especially given how tricky it is to remove. Port layout seemingly done at random, poor layout. USB/power connector better at bottom of device. Battery removal could be easier. Memory card under the SIM card (why? there's seemingly loads of space). 2.5mm audio jack (use 3.5mm like Nokia N95 to get mp3 marketshare) Power button location (location towards top is better, mine's also a bit sticky/spongey). Aux button looks like IR port (does it have any use outside of the bootloader?) GSM speed Battery it at top of the phone unlike pretty much every other phone. GSM antenna is at bottom of phone, should be at top of phone. No dedicated volume up or down (important during a call when the screen backlight has switched off). Fiddly SIM card holder. Earpiece hole, the ear piece foam is visible? (looks like black fluff). --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Screenshots
Amy Stephen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : But, IMO, the color scheme is wrong! I know lots of amazing technical hurdles are being cleared and political ones, as well. But, that color scheme is going to hold this thing back. It should be snazzy and bright and colorful and full of ENERGY! Not orange and black like Halloween. The added gray does not help, either! Orange and black will get the spooky kids interested in buying one though :) But if it's all being done in a skinnable way it will be possible to change the colour scheme and appearance. The orangeness does remind me of old CRT monitors. I'd much sooner see some blue, it's easier on the eye (and that's a scientific fact, eyes are less sensitive to blue). --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Screenshots
On 22 Aug 2007, at 19:38, Xamindar wrote: I just want to say that I can't stand the ubuntu colors. Please don't suggest using ugly brown colors for a phone. At the moment I like the dark version of the phone but the orange one could use a little change. People will never agree on colours, icons etc. People like to be individual or to be able to customise. Effort should be put into making theme support painless, then everyone can be happy. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FM Radio
On 22 Aug 2007, at 22:37, D. Vicario wrote: To listen for streaming radio I MUST pay for the download, and the price of data isn't cheap... so, the FM module is the only way, for me, to listen radio. And I see very much use of it. FM is only worth doing if you can also use the FM circuitry for TMC to get realtime traffic information. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Motorola Charger
On 18 Aug 2007, at 18:30, Richi Plana wrote: Hi, I just received my phase 1 phone yesterday and now am wondering if my Motorola cellphone charger (model: DCH3-05US-0300) will work in charging the Neo1973. It has a mini-USB interface with ourput rated at 5.0V up to 500mA. I'm just not certain if the pin-outs are standard USB on it. I've used a Motorola charger before on HTC phones, the layout is standard. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Issues getting started
On 17 Aug 2007, at 21:30, Casten wrote Without having made any changes, I am wondering if I should just scrap Fedora. I really don't care which distro I use. My goal is just to get up and compiling and running. Ubuntu was a doddle to get running. It's whatever you're comfy with really. I've used Kubuntu and Gentoo the most. I don't like RPM at all. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FM Radio
Ashok Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Is there any FM radio support in Neo? Thanks, Ashok Nope, it has no FM radio hardware. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: mailing list management
On 15 Aug 2007, at 20:39, Dean Collins wrote: Maybe not but at least we know not to resend the same email 20 times….. over and over……and over….and over….. That's an ongoing problem with GMail and this list. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: mailing list management
On 15 Aug 2007, at 23:30, Nick Johnson wrote: Wasn't it established that the problem was with the list server taking ages to send an OK response to messages, and the gmail (and some other) servers simply giving up? Seems like more of an issue with the list than with the client. That maybe so, but it's dumb for it to keep sending it. It should give up after 1 or more attempts and mail the sender to say it failed to deliver. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: mailing list management
On 16 Aug 2007, at 00:07, Nick Johnson wrote: The list server is clearly the issue here, failing to accept messages in a timely fashion. It's only affecting GMail messages. Plus that RFC you quoted says recommended 30 minute retry but GMail is retrying every 8 minutes. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Using Qemu
Mathew Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : I am at the point where it is asking me to calibrate the screen by clicking the crosshair, but I can#39;t click it.nbsp; I think someone has made changes, I had a heck of a time clicking it last night. You have to just stick at it, click it about 5 or 6 times until it registers. Saying that, I changed my xorg settings last night and it might be something to do with that. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: mailing list management
On 14 Aug 2007, at 21:35, Dean Collins wrote: Lol - yep shortly followed by the human race all moving back to wearing skins and living in rock caves. Doing nothing as a 'reason' is about as dumb as you can get. They have the discussions all the time on the Linux Kernel list, people asking why don't we use C++, why don't we tag emails etc.. Are you saying that list is stone age? it's not, it's just people liking how things are and seeing it work without some trendy new idea. I filter this list perfectly fine without tags. Tags just let you give your email the one over and see if you have any personal mail. See the Linux kernel mail list faq for the subject line mod :) http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/docs/lkml/#s3-19 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: User Interface idea
On 14 Aug 2007, at 00:02, Jeff Andros wrote: um, do realize that we are working on a resource constrained system, and probably will be for the forseeable future... I don't see this as TOO much of a problem, as long as those apps unload most of themselves from memory when they're not running, and they spend almost all of their time sleeping... but watch out for that. We'll have to see what people can come up with for this before I run this on my system Exactly why the iPhone is very responsive and Windows Mobile phones aren't. Apple keeps things simple. You need not worry about getting lost in applications if you have a button hardwired to the home screen. Windows Mobile has this on the smartphone edition, trouble is it's very fiddly to get back into any application you've come out of. Being able to see a list of what is open and being able to switch to them is important for usability. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: User Interface idea
On 14 Aug 2007, at 00:48, Derek Pressnall wrote: What I meant was that apps that would be in use would be split into a piece that runs in the background, and a forground part that talks to the display / input. And the background part would only be running when needed. It's sorta done like that already, we have GUI applications and runtime libraries. Now the phone app would always have a module running since it has to listen for incomming phone calls. gsmd handles the calls, there's a library too. The UI portion of the phone app that uses the phone desktop would be the default / primary app that is always available on it when nothing else is running Sounds like you use the phone a lot? while that's right for you, other people use messaging or PDA functions more. You might find additional clicks to launch a dialer annoying, if you make dialer default someone else may think multiple clicks to browse their files annoying. Lets not hardcode any form of functionality into the device, let people choose. Having a default desktop handler or a homescreen which can display plugins is the way to go about it. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean interviewed at LinuxWorld
On 11 Aug 2007, at 19:54, Steven ** wrote: Quoth the article: However, Moss-Pultz said he is confident that the extreme openness of the OpenMoko platform will attract developers and that the developers' applications will attract users. Initially, it'll be for savvy users and people who have used open-source products like Firefox, he said. But I think we're just six months away from being mainstream. When you allow the user to put exactly what they want on the device, you exponentially increase the device's value. I'm confident we can do it. 6 months? That's a good sign that they aren't expecting too much of a delay for GTA02! Typical Gartner response in that interview. Who are these industry analysts anyway? they just seem to state the obvious. Smartphones aren't mainstream, aren't they like 25% of the market maximum? You need to be over 50% to be even considered mainstream. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What's the real scope of hardware openness?
On 8 Aug 2007, at 00:38, Ian Stirling wrote: You don't care if it's hard to prove it was you, to some extent. You care about the consequences to you due to not being able to instantly disprove it's not you to someone in a uniform that may have kicked in your door at 5AM. Well the crime will be traced to an IP address, if you are the only person living at that residence you'll have a struggle on your hands to prove it wasn't you. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: package uboot-gta 01-1.2.0+svn: failed
Richard Reichenbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : I am running into the same problem on Ubuntu 7.04 and running sudo update-alternatives --config git yields: No alternatives for git. It's nothing to do with git, my build system has been working fine. Last night it broke. I suspect changes have been made so work can be done for either GTA01 and GTA02. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: package uboot-gta 01-1.2.0+svn: failed
Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Richard Reichenbacher amp;lang=en[EMAIL PROTECTED] It's nothing to do with git, my build system has been working fine. Last night it broke. I suspect changes have been made so work can be done for either GTA01 and GTA02. Sorry, I'm referring to the other posting where it complains that chmod can't find a script. gitfm/git is a common one. If you run git and get a file manager then you need to install git the source control too. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo 1973 is sold out...
Shakthi Kannan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : I feel it is best for FIC/OpenMoko to have some kind of official customer-support, where customers can just send their order queries, to which official FIC/OpenMoko members and interested community members can join. These interested community members could probably help you guys in providing well-formatted replies to customers. With web tracking and computerised stock levels you probably wouldn't need one. This of course requires planning and computer systems to support it. But you save time and effort in the long run. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What's the real scope of hardware openness?
Luca Dionisi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : The problem is that you can reach much shorter distances without the help of someone else's spot. Yep. Wimax has a better range, it's designed to replace last mile technology, ie. the phone line or cable between your local telco exchange and your house. But it's never been designed with mobile phones in mind AFAIK. Another technology would be satellite phone technology, however this again won't be open, won't be low power and satellite bandwidth is even more restricted than GSM. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What's the real scope of hardware openness?
Luca Dionisi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Yep. Anyway I would insist in finding a solution that doesn't rely heavily in access points. It would be a showstopper. IMHO we could reach the needed adoption level only if the mobile phone (that everyone nowadays carries with him) is the only needed spot. If the mesh protocol is smart, I think the consumption problem could be worked out. Are you sure that I'm advocating the wrong way to go? It's not just consumption of power, transmission strength as well. Would you really feel safe placing a mobile device to your head that is transmitting a signal 10 or more times stronger than with GSM? Not such an issue if you mandate a headset, but it's still a health concern. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What's the real scope of hardware openness?
On 7 Aug 2007, at 22:34, Robin Paulson wrote: i for one was interested in what luca had to say, the discussion that evolved, and i've learned something because of it The idea was a good one, but not feasible at this time and not with Moko hardware. The Neo1973 is an open device but it can't defy physics. and anyway, the telcos are bastards, are screwing us and many would agree with luca's sentiments. i found out last week that i get charged NZ$10/MB (about $8US) for GPRS data - that's not justified, and isn't customer oriented, it's money-grabbing True, plus their plans don't make sense. SMS messages cost a fortune for 160 bytes. But hey, they're a business and businesses are all about making money. Competition is what drives down costs usually. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Video playback - reasonable sized works!
Ian Stirling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Using a copy of mplayer originally intended for the Zaurus, mentioned by anrp on IRC. I played back a random video - which happened to be VIDEO: MPEG1 352x240 (aspect 1) 24.000 fps 1536.0 kbps (192.0 kbyte/s) It 'just worked'. I'm sure there's plenty of potential for optimisation. I would imagine you're close to maxing out the read speed of the card at 1536 kbps? --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Touchscreen not working properly
Simon Wells [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : I have tried this and the cursor stays with the stylus in the middle of the screen but when you get near the top or bottom it doesnt.I have run ts_test and get this from the draw mode https://swel024.ath.cx/~swel024/blah.png and cant fill the top left or bottom left corners.thanksSimon Have you tried re-flashing? I'm not sure of where the calibration information is stored, but it's possible it's not updating correctly? --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
