Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
Tom, what are you saying was removed? I am not saying anything. Read what was reported here... http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasicart icleId=327354 Microsoft's secret weapon in Windows 7 is not what features the operating system has, but instead what features it doesn't have. Microsoft is stripping Windows 7 of some of Windows' best built-in applications, and it's making them available only as downloads on its Windows Live site. When Windows 7 comes out, it won't include Windows Mail, Windows Photo Gallery and Windows Movie Maker, which are some of Vista's most useful applications. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
And they'll be free. Weren't you just complaining about MS adding stuff in like AV because of anti competitiveness? You aren't making any sense in multiple threads from one email to the next. On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom, what are you saying was removed? I am not saying anything. Read what was reported here... http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasicart icleId=327354http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasicarticleId=327354 Microsoft's secret weapon in Windows 7 is not what features the operating system has, but instead what features it doesn't have. Microsoft is stripping Windows 7 of some of Windows' best built-in applications, and it's making them available only as downloads on its Windows Live site. When Windows 7 comes out, it won't include Windows Mail, Windows Photo Gallery and Windows Movie Maker, which are some of Vista's most useful applications. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- Make sure you support your local CarbonONset programs! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
You may want to put on your Christmas list for a copy of Who Moved My Cheese? this year. You seem to have a problem with MS taking on Google on Google's turf by pissing and moaning about it removing features that aren't, oddly enough, removed, just moved. You mean they are going to be installed into a different folder on my hard drive and I am just too stupid to find them? I don't think so. What I read is that these products have been killed. That if I don't sign up for MS's unpopular web services I won't have access to the substitutes. The substitutes will require that I keep my files someplace other than my hard drive. They won't be the same thing at all. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
Oh. So, now consumers *can* use something else other than what MS provides? I could have sworn you told me that they put everyone else out of business with their free stuff. You are changing the subject. This was never asserted in this context. However, Mac sales are up 28 percent in October. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
Tom, what are you saying was removed? On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 8:38 AM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You may want to put on your Christmas list for a copy of Who Moved My Cheese? this year. You seem to have a problem with MS taking on Google on Google's turf by pissing and moaning about it removing features that aren't, oddly enough, removed, just moved. You mean they are going to be installed into a different folder on my hard drive and I am just too stupid to find them? I don't think so. What I read is that these products have been killed. That if I don't sign up for MS's unpopular web services I won't have access to the substitutes. The substitutes will require that I keep my files someplace other than my hard drive. They won't be the same thing at all. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- Make sure you support your local CarbonONset programs! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
When Windows 7 comes out, it won't include Windows Mail, Windows Photo Gallery and Windows Movie Maker, which are some of Vista's most useful applications. Ed Bott explains this better @ http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=582: Judging by the comments I've read and heard, many people mistakenly concluded that Microsoft is planning to deliver a suite of Internet-based applications in tandem with Windows 7. Here's what's really happening. Yep. This confused most of us, me included. The Windows 7 versions of all these programs will be offered to Windows customers as individual options in a package collectively dubbed Windows Live Essentials. That doesn't mean they're going to be browser-based products. They're going to be traditional standalone Windows applications, with the crucial distinction that the primary delivery (and update) mechanism will be the Windows Live website. Each of these products has the capability to integrate with web-based Windows Live Services, but they'll work just fine on their own. OK, so why do this? If these apps aren't being moved to the cloud, then why do it at all? It doesn't sound like a good business decision to stupid up the final product like this. Ed continues: Why the change? Blame it on the courts, which have significantly constrained what Microsoft can do with anything that's a part of Windows. By decoupling the programs from Windows and delivering them through Windows Live, the company avoids a whole host of legal issues. So, shortly after the launch of Windows Vista, Microsoft moved development of those programs over to the Windows Live group, where they now exist as downloadable files. Ah, software development by judicial decree. Which, as we all know, is a 'best practice' development method. On Bizarro world. How's the weather there, Tom? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
And they'll be free. Weren't you just complaining about MS adding stuff in like AV because of anti competitiveness? You aren't making any sense in multiple threads from one email to the next. You have a HUGE blind spot. I see that in your eyes anything MS wants to do is double plus good. MS entering a market with free goods can easily destroy the market. There is a history of MS doing this. The problem is not with the free goods, it is with the destruction of the market. That is why there are laws about this. Pulling free goods from an established product is not in itself a problem. The writer listed a bunch of useless programs that MS should pull if it was really trimming for the reasons it claimed. I see the programs MS is pulling as being selected strategically to herd its customers. I suspect there are laws against this too. One more example... My shooting a gun is not a problem. My shooting the gun while pointing it at you is a problem, because you will end up dead. The problem is not the gun shooting, it is you becomming dead. That is why there are laws about this. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
My shooting a gun is not a problem. My shooting the gun while pointing it at you is a problem, because you will end up dead. The problem is not the gun shooting, it is you becomming dead. That is why there are laws about this. I don't know whether to laugh or cry at such a poor understanding of the subject. Actually, I do, but saying so would be impolite. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
The is goal is to move people to the cloud where most believe tech is headed. Let's all give a hearty baa for the Windows sheeple as they happily trot off to be shorn. Don't forget that mac baaa or whatever you MFB do...apple is headed that way too. And now IBM. http://tinyurl.com/5fz8dx * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
And now IBM. And of course, Herr Doctor himself. Tom has on many more than one occasion urged list members to dump their ISP provided email and move to the cloud via Gmail or the like. An idea with which I agree with whole-heartedly. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
And of course, Herr Doctor himself. Tom has on many more than one occasion urged list members to dump their ISP provided email and move to the cloud via Gmail or the like. An idea with which I agree with whole-heartedly. A feeble attempt to change the subject. Nothing has been posted in opposition to cloud computing or even MS's attempt to join the parade. My issue is solely with MS's tactic of herding its sheeple to its web properties by removing popular parts of Windows. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
http://tinyurl.com/5fz8dx What's your point? That IBM is getting involved with cloud computing should come as no surprise. That they are taking an enterprise approach with an emphasis on reliability and security should be no surprise either. Or are you just trying to muddy the waters by adding irrelevant material to the thread? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
A feeble attempt to change the subject. Nothing has been posted in opposition to cloud computing or even MS's attempt to join the parade. Which reads as don't try and compete with Google. I suppose then that since you disapprove of their competing with the non-evil (yet) behemoth, you would approve of an MS move to strong-arm computer manufacturers to *not* include Chrome on their installs, as Google would like the mfrs to do? I notice that Google is conspicuously absent from your posts even when directly confronted with them. Does the Google sub-orbital weapons platform have your house targeted or something? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
Which reads as don't try and compete with Google. I suppose then that since you disapprove of their competing with the non-evil (yet) behemoth, you would approve of an MS move to strong-arm computer manufacturers to *not* include Chrome on their installs, as Google would like the mfrs to do? No, I do not see Google requiring the use of Chrome to access their services. I only know of one browser that is required for accessing certain web services, and that is IE. Google competes by having a much better product. If MS had a much better product they would not have to use strong-arm tactics or try to put Yahoo! out of business to raise their meager market share for search. You asked for an example of MS blacklisting and I provided it. Can you now provide an example of Google dropping features in order to herd traffic to one of their underperforming properties? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
I didn't suggest that. Google wants computer mfrs to include Chrome on their installs. I asked, since you obviously don't think MS should be competing with Google and not updating their products to conform better to changing markets, that instead MS should go old-school and start leaning on producers to exclude Chrome. That seems to be what you are saying. I think we need to sign you up for a remedial reading program. Any time you use the word obviously it tips us off that a whopper follows. Dirty tricks are not the same as competition. Taking unfair advantage of a monopoly position is not competition. Having multiple browsers competing to be the fastest, safest, and most reliable is good. Dirty tricks that disadvantage competing browsers is not. Dirty tricks that require the use of a particular browser are not. Dirty tricks that prevent deletion of a browser you don't want are not. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
But...but...Microsoft made Live Search and MSN their default search and home page for IE 7. For free According to you, that means that every other similar application and web site should be out of business now. I wonder what will cure me of this massive hallucination of Google of being so overwhelmingly successful despite all this free Microsoft stuff? If the MS services were not crappy and as wonderful as you say, how do you account for so many people choosing to change the defaults? Even offers of money have failed to persuade. There was once a day when radios were manufactured that only tuned to a single station. Stations paid the manufacturer to lock out the other stations. People could use the radio to listen to that one station for free! Wow, what a deal. That practice was made illegal. For good reason. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
Tom Piwowar And of course, Herr Doctor himself. Tom has on many more than one occasion urged list members to dump their ISP provided email and move to the cloud via Gmail or the like. An idea with which I agree with whole-heartedly. A feeble attempt to change the subject. Nothing has been posted in opposition to cloud computing or even MS's attempt to join the parade. My issue is solely with MS's tactic of herding its sheeple to its web properties by removing popular parts of Windows. I think Windows 7 is an attempt to get better performance from peoples computers. The big problem that Vista had was that it needed so much computer. Lot's of systems were sold as Vista Ready when the only version of Vista that would run was the most basic version and they didn't expect anyone to actually use that one. The modular approach lets people pick and choose what is actually installed. How this works should be interesting to watch. I understand (listening to Paul Thurrott) that the guy in charge of Vista development at MS uses a netbook on a daily basis and expects to use that for Windows 7. BTW, Paul T. uses a Macbook Pro w/boot manager for his laptop, he started out using an Amiga and switched sometime after Windows 3.1(??). -- Take care | This clown speaks for himself, his job doesn't Wayne D. | supply this, at least not directly Dirty old modules love to get overlaid! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
Then there is also the matter of the class action suit against MS over the Vista Ready designation. The complaint alleges fraud in that the most basic version you mention is hardly Vista. Yep. They let the marketing trolls do their thinking for them again and got sucked in Intel's whining. Serves 'em right. If MS is smart, and I do mean if, they will go back to the XP mode of 2 versions: home and business. Or even better, one version as with 2000, this time pre-set configurations for the specific environments. The modular approach may do that. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
Dirty tricks are not the same as competition. Taking unfair advantage of a monopoly position is not competition. Ya think? You may want to put on your Christmas list for a copy of Who Moved My Cheese? this year. You seem to have a problem with MS taking on Google on Google's turf by pissing and moaning about it removing features that aren't, oddly enough, removed, just moved. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
If the MS services were not crappy and as wonderful as you say, how do you account for so many people choosing to change the defaults? Even offers of money have failed to persuade. Oh. So, now consumers *can* use something else other than what MS provides? I could have sworn you told me that they put everyone else out of business with their free stuff. Why am I suddenly reminded of a scene from Raising Arizona? Well, which is it, young feller? You want I should freeze or get down on the ground? Mean to say, if'n I freeze, I can't rightly drop. And if'n I drop, I'm a-gonna be in motion. You see... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
The is goal is to move people to the cloud where most believe tech is headed. Let's all give a hearty baa for the Windows sheeple as they happily trot off to be shorn. Knowing how gullible they are do you think we can sell them some Magik Hair Tonic to grow back their losses? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
Don't forget that mac baaa or whatever you MFB do...apple is headed that way too. On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 8:11 AM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The is goal is to move people to the cloud where most believe tech is headed. Let's all give a hearty baa for the Windows sheeple as they happily trot off to be shorn. Knowing how gullible they are do you think we can sell them some Magik Hair Tonic to grow back their losses? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- Make sure you support your local CarbonONset programs! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
The is goal is to move people to the cloud where most believe tech is headed. On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Windows 7: Microsoft's secret weapon against Google www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasicarticleId= 327354 Apparently MS is removing several very popular free applications from Win7 (like Mail). To get the free software back MS is herding sheeple over to Windows Live. I suppose the goal is to artificially inflate traffic to a service that would otherwise be of questionable popularity. (I guess Live Search Cashback wasn't a hit.) Does that qualify as an underhanded, manipulative dirty trick? I think so. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- Make sure you support your local CarbonONset programs! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
On Nov 23, 2008, at 1:53 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: Windows 7: Microsoft's secret weapon against Google www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasicarticleId= 327354 Apparently MS is removing several very popular free applications from Win7 (like Mail). To get the free software back MS is herding sheeple over to Windows Live. I suppose the goal is to artificially inflate traffic to a service that would otherwise be of questionable popularity. (I guess Live Search Cashback wasn't a hit.) Does that qualify as an underhanded, manipulative dirty trick? I think so. When is Windows 7 supposed to be released? I ask this because MS is pushing Vista pretty hard via advertising these days. Are they trying to convince PC users to go out and buy Vista right now, and then shortly be faced with having to make a decision about buying an upgrade to 7? Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
Most reports say MS is shooting for an October 2009 release. On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 7:13 PM, Steve Rigby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 23, 2008, at 1:53 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: Windows 7: Microsoft's secret weapon against Google www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasicarticleId= 327354 Apparently MS is removing several very popular free applications from Win7 (like Mail). To get the free software back MS is herding sheeple over to Windows Live. I suppose the goal is to artificially inflate traffic to a service that would otherwise be of questionable popularity. (I guess Live Search Cashback wasn't a hit.) Does that qualify as an underhanded, manipulative dirty trick? I think so. When is Windows 7 supposed to be released? I ask this because MS is pushing Vista pretty hard via advertising these days. Are they trying to convince PC users to go out and buy Vista right now, and then shortly be faced with having to make a decision about buying an upgrade to 7? Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- Make sure you support your local CarbonONset programs! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
Which means sometime in early 2010 should be realistic. Stewart At 08:33 PM 11/23/2008, you wrote: Most reports say MS is shooting for an October 2009 release. On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 7:13 PM, Steve Rigby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 23, 2008, at 1:53 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: Windows 7: Microsoft's secret weapon against Google www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasicarticleId= 327354 Apparently MS is removing several very popular free applications from Win7 (like Mail). To get the free software back MS is herding sheeple over to Windows Live. I suppose the goal is to artificially inflate traffic to a service that would otherwise be of questionable popularity. (I guess Live Search Cashback wasn't a hit.) Does that qualify as an underhanded, manipulative dirty trick? I think so. When is Windows 7 supposed to be released? I ask this because MS is pushing Vista pretty hard via advertising these days. Are they trying to convince PC users to go out and buy Vista right now, and then shortly be faced with having to make a decision about buying an upgrade to 7? Steve Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
Which means sometime in early 2010 should be realistic. Probably not. All indications are that it will be released in time for Christmas 2009 sales, which means shipping considerably earlier in the year, maybe as early as August. Win7 is already feature-complete, so they are only working on bug fixes, efficiency, etc. It should be noted that the -official- ship date as of now is still January, 2010, but nobody is paying much attention to that any more. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
I kind of hope for the earlier than release date. I would prefer to go directly from XP to 7 and skip Vista. Stewart At 10:40 PM 11/23/2008, you wrote: Which means sometime in early 2010 should be realistic. Probably not. All indications are that it will be released in time for Christmas 2009 sales, which means shipping considerably earlier in the year, maybe as early as August. Win7 is already feature-complete, so they are only working on bug fixes, efficiency, etc. It should be noted that the -official- ship date as of now is still January, 2010, but nobody is paying much attention to that any more. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MS Herding the Sheeple [Was: Windows 7]
On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 9:33 PM, mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most reports say MS is shooting for an October 2009 release. I've been hearing August on Windows Weekly. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
