Re: Free speech - front lines in Australia - [perso...@bernardgaynor.com.au: Update: battle for free speech]

[oshwm]

Truly private speech comes with a freespeech guarantee so thats not an issue.

Public speech is where the attacks on freespeech occur.

The fact is, you either have freespeech or you dont, there is no halfway - that 
is called 'controlled speech'.

The people who are too sensitive to handle freespeech should stop pretending 
they advocate it and accept that they are advocating controlled or limited 
speech.


On 8 September 2016 23:27:03 GMT+01:00, Nadine Earnshaw  
wrote:
> 
>No the issue is public vs private speech.
>There is also a difference between publicly stating an opinion and
>being abusive.
>this is what we are talking about legislatively
>
>RACIAL DISCRIMINATION ACT 1975 - SECT 18C
>
>OFFENSIVE BEHAVIOUR BECAUSE OF RACE, COLOUR OR NATIONAL OR ETHNIC
>ORIGIN
>
>    (1)  It is unlawful for a person [1] to
>do an act, otherwise than in private, if:
>
>    (a)  the act is reasonably
>likely, in all the circumstances, to offend, insult, humiliate or
>intimidate another person [2] or a group of people; and
>
>    (b)  the act is done
>because of the race, colour or national or ethnic origin of the
>other person [3] or of some or all of the people in the group.
>
>   Note:  Subsection (1) makes certain acts unlawful.
>Section 46P of the _Australian Human Rights Commission Act
>1986 _allows people to make complaints to the Australian Human Rights
>Commission about unlawful acts. However, an unlawful act is not
>necessarily a criminal offence. Section 26 says that this Act does
>not make it an offence to do an act that is unlawful because of this
>Part, unless Part IV expressly says that the act is an offence.
>
>    (2)  For the purposes of subsection (1),
>an act is taken not to be done in private if it:
>
>    (a)  causes words, sounds,
>images or writing to be communicated to the public; or
>
>    (b)  is done in a public
>place; or
>
>    (c)  is done in the sight
>or hearing of people who are in a public place.
>
>    (3)  In this section:
>
>   _"PUBLIC PLACE " _includes any place to which the public have access
>as of right or by invitation, whether express or implied and whether
>or not a charge is made for admission to the place.
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "oshwm" 
>To:"Nadine Earnshaw" , "CypherPunks" 
>Cc:
>Sent:Thu, 08 Sep 2016 06:18:31 +0100
>Subject:Re: Free speech - front lines in Australia -
>[perso...@bernardgaynor.com.au: Update: battle for free speech]
>
>So, free speech is ok so long as it is only used to say yhe things you
>find acceptable? :D
>
>On 8 September 2016 04:09:38 GMT+01:00, Nadine Earnshaw  wrote:
>freedom of speech does not protect hate speechand that is what 18c
>which Bernard supports being removed.
>He is free to say
>"I wouldn't let a gay person teach my children and I am not afraid to
>say it," a Twitter post from Mr Gaynor read.
>but there is a line and that is what 18c is about.
>http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/rda1975202/s18c.html
>He is free to be a dick in private. Clearly with his being dismissed
>he has trouble with what private is.
>
> >>Bernard Gaynor is a controversial Australian with conservative
> pro-family views whom some would say is ultra-conservative, to which
>I
> would counter "that's just your post-modern moral relativism which
> dominates the current Western public and social dialogue".
>
> So, notwithstanding anyone's particular views on any particular issue
> which Bernard Gaynor stands for and champions (at least one of which
>I
> strongly disagree with), his stand for freedom of speech is superb,
> courageous, persistent, and thyankfully a following has formed which
> donates to keep him and his family afloat in the face of the legal
>fees
> and the many personal sacrifices he has chosen to make, and some
>which
> he has and continues to suffer at the hands of his opponents,
>including
> the chief of the Australian Army who stepped down to an early
>retirement
> in "moral disgrace" and knowing that he would not survive his very
> political attack against Bernard Gaynor's personal stands as an
> Australian Army reserve man (he sacked Bernard amongst other things).
>
> So plenty to debate, but the guts of this is free speech and the long
> standing statutory infractions against our right to freedom of
>speech,
> and in particular as we name it for necessary but quirky reasons in
> Australia for legal and constitutional purposes:
>
> freedom to communicate on political and related matters
>
> Good luck Bernard,
>
> - Forwarded message from Bernard Gaynor -
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2016 01:07:53 +
> From: Bernard Gaynor 
> To: Zenaan Harkiss 
> Reply-To: Bernard Gaynor 
> Subject: Update: battle for free speech
>
> View this email in your browser

Re: [WAR] Julian Assange - a one man Hillary Rodham Clinton wrecking ball

[Cecilia Tanaka]

PS for everybody:  -  Hi!  I am accepting anyone's help to catch the Piggie
and make a good feijoada, with bacon and torresmo.  And caipirinha to
celebrate!  :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caipirinha

Brazilian food and drinks are very Off Topic, but when we cook a Cypher
Piggie, it becomes a cypherpunk topic, my dear Mirimir!  :D

sea sea
--
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to
say it."

Re: [WAR] Julian Assange - a one man Hillary Rodham Clinton wrecking ball

[juan]

On Thu, 8 Sep 2016 20:58:16 -0600
Mirimir  wrote:

> On 09/08/2016 08:50 PM, Cypher Piggie wrote:
> >> todefend to SOMEONE ELSE'S death his right to say it. Â  Â
> >> Â  Â  Â 
> > 
> > juan has no right abuse others
> 
> He for sure does! But maybe not so repetitiously, like a fucking
> bot ;)
> 

I only 'abuse' people who advocate mass abuse. If I sound like
a broken record it's because there are other broken records
constantly promoting things like 'regulation', 'governments'
'fake anonimty networks', making excuses for the pentagon and
big businesses, etc, etc, etc.

Oh and there even are lunatics like cyber-swine here...

Re: MainStream Media <-> Western Regime Media

[Cypher Piggie]

> were related to Nazi government action or not.

juan is related to this same thing he claims to despise.

really well before last april due JUAN the TROLL paid his taxes to his US
Government. really when his w2 from his cover job in walmart came in the
mail, he was aglow with the happiness of a thousand litle girls, as his
heart he set on doing them (both the taxes and the girls) that night and
sending his money to Uncle SAM the very next day. he did this perfectly as
planned and was not a penny off but abuses happened. proud little juan he
was very of himself.

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent

[Steve Kinney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 09/08/2016 10:03 PM, Mirimir wrote:
> On 09/08/2016 07:39 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>> On 09/05/2016 12:15 PM, Александр wrote:


>> Well that's odd.  I wonder what it's about?  Splitting the list
>> into what?  Two with different themes?  One Moderated and one
>> Unmoderated?
> 
> There are many lists out there for stuff that Александр and Zenaan
> are posting. It's not that cypherpunk is apolitical. Rather, it's
> that stuff which simply bashes one side or the other, but has no
> particular connection to crypto and its social/economic/political
> role/potential is just plainly off-topic.

Sounds right to me.

- From my own posting history it's clear that I don't mind pushing
content that addresses the methods of practical politics, and some of
the theory behind same.  The connection of this to crypto etc. is that
it illustrates contexts in which crypto (and by extension pretty much
all network security considerations) can be productively used to
support political means and ends.  Hence relevant to threat models,
product designs, education and support activities for crypto-centric
applications.

So far I'm not getting flamed for that.

>> If the latter, that's a perilous course.  One sees a lot of
>> "twin" lists and such that are one sterile and stereotyped, the
>> other totally overrun with tards.  Because once upon a time, half
>> or more of the people on the original list who took an interest
>> in keeping it alive /without/ censorship bailed, and those who
>> stayed behind were gradually overwhelmed.
> 
> There's no need to do anything with the cypherpunks list. If
> people object to off-topic crap, they can say so. If people object
> to being criticized for posting off-topic crap, they can deal with
> it or leave. That's just how unmoderated lists work.

Also sounds right to me.  Don't let's pretend we can't do it - some of
the subscribers on this list are veterans of USENET.

"Cypherpunks of the world unite - You have nothing to lose but your
barbed wire!"

;o)



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Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent

[Razer]

On 09/08/2016 07:03 PM, Mirimir wrote:


> 
> There are many lists out there for stuff that Александр and Zenaan are
> posting. It's not that cypherpunk is apolitical. Rather, it's that stuff
> which simply bashes one side or the other, but has no particular
> connection to crypto and its social/economic/political role/potential is
> just plainly off-topic.


I TRY to keep my political postings to, at least the Internet or
computing's connection to politics, state, society


It's not ez.

Rr



> On 09/08/2016 07:39 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>> On 09/05/2016 12:15 PM, Александр wrote:
>>> forwarding part of my private conversation to the whole list:
>>
>>> The new list is not the preferable solution, you know. It's the
>>> only thing we see right now, but... We should realize, that this
>>> splitting up will KILL the original list. It will kill the whole
>>> concept and the core idea of the Cypher-Punk list/movement.
>>
>>> The Snowden revelations and all the shit going on in the world in
>>> the last 10 years has brought us (people with brain & spirit) to a
>>> clear and unambiguous understanding that *"THE CYPHERPUNK
>>> LIST-CONCEPT MUST EVOLVE, -> THUS MUST BE CHANGED, BECOMING MUCH
>>> BROADER". *And the focus, as John Young wrote, cannot be on
>>> Apolitical (relatively) crypto-math-numbers only as it was
>>> before...
>>
>>> Times have irreversibly changed -> thus the issues for discussion
>>> must be much much *BROADER*.
>>
>> Well that's odd.  I wonder what it's about?  Splitting the list into
>> what?  Two with different themes?  One Moderated and one Unmoderated?
> 
> There are many lists out there for stuff that Александр and Zenaan are
> posting. It's not that cypherpunk is apolitical. Rather, it's that stuff
> which simply bashes one side or the other, but has no particular
> connection to crypto and its social/economic/political role/potential is
> just plainly off-topic.
> 
>> If the latter, that's a perilous course.  One sees a lot of "twin"
>> lists and such that are one sterile and stereotyped, the other totally
>> overrun with tards.  Because once upon a time, half or more of the
>> people on the original list who took an interest in keeping it alive
>> /without/ censorship bailed, and those who stayed behind were
>> gradually overwhelmed.
> 
> There's no need to do anything with the cypherpunks list. If people
> object to off-topic crap, they can say so. If people object to being
> criticized for posting off-topic crap, they can deal with it or leave.
> That's just how unmoderated lists work.
> 
>> When the means to eliminate a public voice by direct force are not
>> practicable, death by a thousand paper cuts may get the job done.
>> Splitting an online forum may be a decisive move in that direction, or
>> harmless and productive, depending the situation.  As someone already
>> pointed out, there is already a cryptography list, which seems to
>> provide more or less what any advocates for moderation could ask for.
>>
>> People have been talking about the CPunks list charter.  I have not
>> seen it.  What Sovereign signed it, and what powers does the Crown
>> delegate to us, for what tribute in return?  Just curious.
>>
>> Will post a message to this same thread that enlarges on "my" input to
>> the "public" conversation.
>>
>> Ⓐ
>>
>>
>>

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent

[Mirimir]

On 09/08/2016 07:42 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
> Greetings, Anarchists and Sworn Enemies Of Anarchism!
> 
> Without a sovereign Authority to sign off on it, there can be no
> such thing as a CPunks List Charter.  What it this, a corporation?
> CPunks has never even been as organized as a pirate vessel - no
> ship's articles, no process for selecting or removing captains, no 
> disciplinary process, no profit sharing or worker's comp...
> 
> HOWEVER, I do propose yet another definitive answer for the "topic"
> of the cypherpunks list:
> 
> Information warfare in the public interest.
> 
> Because in the local context, cypher- means mathematical
> munitions, and -punk means opposed to abuse of authority.
> Information warfare in the public interest provides a very broad
> canvas to work with, encompassing everything from tools and
> strategies for network security to exposure of State and Corporate
> covert surveillance and manipulation with an eye to practical
> mitigation.

Hey, it's always been that :)

> If you order today you also get a culture and heritage of hacking. 
> Not the pop culture script kiddie version, but hacking in the
> original tehchnophiliac meaning of the word:  Content with an
> emphasis on How Stuff Works and how to make stuff Work For You.
> But wait, there's more!  All of this happens in a context of
> radical politics, so we can widen our subject matter to include
> hacking tips, tricks, tools and case histories for technologies
> like practical propaganda, activist organization, and resistance
> movements.  A Magic Theater with only one price:  Study that, do
> that, improve on that, and assist others to do likewise.

Sounds good to me :)

> When people acquire, use and share practical tools and techniques, 
> they can enable Big Things to happen.  When people promote and
> defend and repeat and elaborate and fight over and recycle and
> reiterate and regurgitate and clog up the tubes with the END
> PRODUCTS of their VERY OWN political agenda, grounded in Most
> Passionate Beliefs, we get an identity politics shouting match that
> proves nothing but our collective incompetence at waging
> information warfare in the public interest.

I do think that we ought to implement some form of AP. But proof
against gaming by the wealthy. Maybe not limited to predicting death.
Or maybe just demonstrations, to get the implementation working.

> Get good at being Bad.  Know the right way to do wrong.

You mean "wrong", right?

> :o)
> 
> 

Re: MainStream Media <-> Western Regime Media

[Cypher Piggie]

worthless thread bout some worthless 'cristian' wife beater ahd fuckin
worthless religion get lost

Re: MainStream Media <-> Western Regime Media

[Razer]

On 09/08/2016 03:53 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 08, 2016 at 01:00:15PM -0700, Sean Lynch wrote:
>> On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 12:39 PM, John Newman  wrote:
>>
>>> How about we just call it "bullshit" ? Obviously MSM is total fucking
>>> garbage
>>>
>>> While we're at it, whats up with the constant russia-insider.com links?
>>> This shit is pure propaganda, every bit as bad as any MSM
> 
> Do you recall this question being asked twice before?
> 
> And do you recall my answer both times?
> 
> (reminder hint - it's also in the subject of some of the threads;
> also notice threading, and the ability to filter both subject lines and
> threads)
> 
> 
>>> http://kremlintrolls.com/t/20150620-ri_footprint.html
>>>
>>> http://www.stopfake.org/en/is-russia-insider-sponsored-by-a-
>>> russian-oligarch-with-the-ties-to-the-european-far-right/
>>>
>>> http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/04/bausman-and-fraud-at-russia-insider.html
>>>
>>> http://www.fort-russ.com/2015/11/reading-between-lines-great-war-of.html
>>>
>>> https://nobsrussia.com/tag/russia-insider/
>>>
>>> "Long time readers and Russia watchers know that one of the most odious
>>> pro-Kremlin
>>> sites in existence is Russia Insider. Rather than create original
>>> content, most of
>>> their articles consist of material reprinted from other sources,
>>> typically Kremlin
>>> media outlets but also including sites featuring ideological racism and
>>> Holocaust
>>> denial. What better sources for a site that still uses the “Kiev Nazi
>>> junta” trope?"
>>>
>>
>> Interesting that RI is associated with holocaust deniers, as I just
>> realized yesterday that Zen is himself a holocaust denier when he posted a
>> bunch of holocaust denial links.
> 
> Is holding that there is poor evidence for 6 million, and reasonable
> evidence for ~2.X million, and that the USA concentration camps were no
> better in some cases worse, the gulag another equally "fun" place to be,
> and the propaganda around "the Jewish Holocaust" which began well before
> WW2, and that "it's humans dude, we gotta fix us, all of us", is somehow
> a "bad" thing?
> 
> And is all that, and plenty more, and nuance and subtlety, all bundled
> into "holocaust denier" a suitable way to engage in constructive
> conversation?
> 
> "Conspiracy theorists" ... that's "original" :/
> 


Regarding the number of Jews killed. Every official authority including
Russian sources estimate the number of dead between 4-8 million.

There's a lot of variance because of HOW it's decided whether the deaths
were related to Nazi government action or not. It will NEVER be totally
settled, so most just uses the 6 million number.

As a more recent example there's dispute over the number of Iraqis
killed by the US for similar reasons. International law holds that the
invader is responsible for securing the invaded space and is responsible
for all deaths including civilian on civilian murder etc.

The US, ofc, doesn't buy that, or that they're responsible for the mass
fratricide they cause arming ethnic groups against each other for it's
own purposes. So the numbers will vary.

As a Jew, what I don't want to see are Jews denying there were/are
holocausts happening just as tragic every moment we're alive and for
some reason the Nazi holocaust was somehow worse than, lets say, what
the US did, is doing, to the indigenous people.


Many Jews think like that. Ours is the only Holocaust. As my Bessarabian
grandpa, chased across the region by the Bishkek pogroms of the late
1800s(?)  would have said "Ishkabibble". Yiddish slang for nonsense, and
the people pushing that POV on Jews HAVE an agenda, and funding for it
from Zionists who hope the international community will let them have
their way with Palestinians 'b/c holocaust'.

Rr

Re: Fwd: [Private] Hi, dear! :)

[Cypher Piggie]

> squee

u think 2 fucks given if u like shagging little girl piggies in the
barnyard like juan
squee all u want, juan can still fuck off and die

Re: Fwd: [Private] Hi, dear! :)

[Cypher Piggie]

doesnt give fucks to me what u do so long as you realize juan is a us
citizen, troll, making operations on here, and worthless abusive piece of
pigshit be upon him

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent

[Mirimir]

On 09/08/2016 07:39 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
> On 09/05/2016 12:15 PM, Александр wrote:
>> forwarding part of my private conversation to the whole list:
> 
>> The new list is not the preferable solution, you know. It's the
>> only thing we see right now, but... We should realize, that this
>> splitting up will KILL the original list. It will kill the whole
>> concept and the core idea of the Cypher-Punk list/movement.
> 
>> The Snowden revelations and all the shit going on in the world in
>> the last 10 years has brought us (people with brain & spirit) to a
>> clear and unambiguous understanding that *"THE CYPHERPUNK
>> LIST-CONCEPT MUST EVOLVE, -> THUS MUST BE CHANGED, BECOMING MUCH
>> BROADER". *And the focus, as John Young wrote, cannot be on
>> Apolitical (relatively) crypto-math-numbers only as it was
>> before...
> 
>> Times have irreversibly changed -> thus the issues for discussion
>> must be much much *BROADER*.
> 
> Well that's odd.  I wonder what it's about?  Splitting the list into
> what?  Two with different themes?  One Moderated and one Unmoderated?

There are many lists out there for stuff that Александр and Zenaan are
posting. It's not that cypherpunk is apolitical. Rather, it's that stuff
which simply bashes one side or the other, but has no particular
connection to crypto and its social/economic/political role/potential is
just plainly off-topic.

> If the latter, that's a perilous course.  One sees a lot of "twin"
> lists and such that are one sterile and stereotyped, the other totally
> overrun with tards.  Because once upon a time, half or more of the
> people on the original list who took an interest in keeping it alive
> /without/ censorship bailed, and those who stayed behind were
> gradually overwhelmed.

There's no need to do anything with the cypherpunks list. If people
object to off-topic crap, they can say so. If people object to being
criticized for posting off-topic crap, they can deal with it or leave.
That's just how unmoderated lists work.

> When the means to eliminate a public voice by direct force are not
> practicable, death by a thousand paper cuts may get the job done.
> Splitting an online forum may be a decisive move in that direction, or
> harmless and productive, depending the situation.  As someone already
> pointed out, there is already a cryptography list, which seems to
> provide more or less what any advocates for moderation could ask for.
> 
> People have been talking about the CPunks list charter.  I have not
> seen it.  What Sovereign signed it, and what powers does the Crown
> delegate to us, for what tribute in return?  Just curious.
> 
> Will post a message to this same thread that enlarges on "my" input to
> the "public" conversation.
> 
> Ⓐ
> 
> 
> 

Re: Your obsession with Juan

[Cypher Piggie]

> Fritz Wuehler
> Juan. He's an asshole

yes he's an asshole. and a troll. and a USA loving US citizen.

Re: MainStream Media <-> Western Regime Media

[Mirimir]

On 09/08/2016 06:59 PM, John Newman wrote:
>>>
>>> Is holding that there is poor evidence for 6 million, and reasonable
>>> evidence for ~2.X million, and that the USA concentration camps were no
>>> better in some cases worse, the gulag another equally "fun" place to be,
> 
> I didn’t even notice this bit earlier.
> 
> You are wrong. Things were UGLY everywhere during ww2, but there is AMPLE
> evidence for a number close to 6 million.  My god, why would you even wade
> into this fucking toxic subject?  (why am i??)
> 
> If you could pick Auschwitz or one of the internment camps in the US, where
> would you go?  Yes, fuck the US for its shameless behavior during ww2…
> but double-fuck Germany.   
> 
> Talking about this makes my stomach turn.
> 
> 
> John

Well, I do defend the right to discuss it. Not here, because it's
off-topic. Unless we want to talk about IBM's role, supplying technology
for tracking Jews and other "undesirables". And how suitable crypto
could have permitted the collection of aggregate data (say, for
estimating how many synagogues were needed in refugee camps) without
putting individuals at risk.

>>> and the propaganda around "the Jewish Holocaust" which began well before
>>> WW2, and that "it's humans dude, we gotta fix us, all of us", is somehow
>>> a "bad" thing?
>>>
>>> And is all that, and plenty more, and nuance and subtlety, all bundled
>>> into "holocaust denier" a suitable way to engage in constructive
>>> conversation?
>>>
> 
> 
>>> "Conspiracy theorists" ... that's "original" :/
>>
> 
> 

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent (was: Re: moving on))

[Steve Kinney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Greetings, Anarchists and Sworn Enemies Of Anarchism!

Without a sovereign Authority to sign off on it, there can be no such
thing as a CPunks List Charter.  What it this, a corporation?  CPunks
has never even been as organized as a pirate vessel - no ship's
articles, no process for selecting or removing captains, no
disciplinary process, no profit sharing or worker's comp...

HOWEVER, I do propose yet another definitive answer for the "topic" of
the cypherpunks list:

Information warfare in the public interest.

Because in the local context, cypher- means mathematical munitions,
and -punk means opposed to abuse of authority.  Information warfare in
the public interest provides a very broad canvas to work with,
encompassing everything from tools and strategies for network security
to exposure of State and Corporate covert surveillance and
manipulation with an eye to practical mitigation.

If you order today you also get a culture and heritage of hacking.
Not the pop culture script kiddie version, but hacking in the original
tehchnophiliac meaning of the word:  Content with an emphasis on How
Stuff Works and how to make stuff Work For You.  But wait, there's
more!  All of this happens in a context of radical politics, so we can
widen our subject matter to include hacking tips, tricks, tools and
case histories for technologies like practical propaganda, activist
organization, and resistance movements.  A Magic Theater with only one
price:  Study that, do that, improve on that, and assist others to do
likewise.

When people acquire, use and share practical tools and techniques,
they can enable Big Things to happen.  When people promote and defend
and repeat and elaborate and fight over and recycle and reiterate and
regurgitate and clog up the tubes with the END PRODUCTS of their VERY
OWN political agenda, grounded in Most Passionate Beliefs, we get an
identity politics shouting match that proves nothing but our
collective incompetence at waging information warfare in the public
interest.

Get good at being Bad.  Know the right way to do wrong.

:o)

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=Imnj
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Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent (was: Re: moving on))

[Steve Kinney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 09/05/2016 12:15 PM, Александр wrote:
> forwarding part of my private conversation to the whole list:
> 
> The new list is not the preferable solution, you know. It's the
> only thing we see right now, but... We should realize, that this
> splitting up will KILL the original list. It will kill the whole
> concept and the core idea of the Cypher-Punk list/movement.
> 
> The Snowden revelations and all the shit going on in the world in
> the last 10 years has brought us (people with brain & spirit) to a
> clear and unambiguous understanding that *"THE CYPHERPUNK
> LIST-CONCEPT MUST EVOLVE, -> THUS MUST BE CHANGED, BECOMING MUCH
> BROADER". *And the focus, as John Young wrote, cannot be on
> Apolitical (relatively) crypto-math-numbers only as it was
> before...
> 
> Times have irreversibly changed -> thus the issues for discussion
> must be much much *BROADER*.

Well that's odd.  I wonder what it's about?  Splitting the list into
what?  Two with different themes?  One Moderated and one Unmoderated?

If the latter, that's a perilous course.  One sees a lot of "twin"
lists and such that are one sterile and stereotyped, the other totally
overrun with tards.  Because once upon a time, half or more of the
people on the original list who took an interest in keeping it alive
/without/ censorship bailed, and those who stayed behind were
gradually overwhelmed.

When the means to eliminate a public voice by direct force are not
practicable, death by a thousand paper cuts may get the job done.
Splitting an online forum may be a decisive move in that direction, or
harmless and productive, depending the situation.  As someone already
pointed out, there is already a cryptography list, which seems to
provide more or less what any advocates for moderation could ask for.

People have been talking about the CPunks list charter.  I have not
seen it.  What Sovereign signed it, and what powers does the Crown
delegate to us, for what tribute in return?  Just curious.

Will post a message to this same thread that enlarges on "my" input to
the "public" conversation.

Ⓐ


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Re: Privacy Activists Launch Database to Track Global Sales of Surveillance Tech

[John Newman]

> On Sep 8, 2016, at 7:16 PM, Cecilia Tanaka  wrote:
> 
> There are lots of awesome people working to Google or that already worked 
> there.  I have great friends there in Brazil, Switzerland and Montain View.
> 
> When I was planning to make my marriage in the hackerspace, the Minister of 
> the Flying Spaghetti Monster who would marry me is one of my dearest friends 
> and a proud Googler (SRE). 
> 
> Please, don't judge all the employees for the company.  
> sea sea
> --
> "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to 
> say it." 
> 

The fucking inventors of UNIX work at google… Well, Ritchie is dead,
but last I recall Ken Thompson worked there in some capacity and
other UNIX pioneers like Rob Pike definitely work there….

I’m not saying thats a good thing :P  Just a fact.

Bill Joy, inventor of the greatest text editor known to man-kind
(vi), never got sucked in :)  Although of course he did start Sun…


John

> On Sep 8, 2016 7:40 PM, "Zenaan Harkness"  > wrote:
> google
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 08, 2016 at 07:52:36PM +0100, oshwm wrote:
> > This is incredibly useful as it gives a good list of companies not to
> > work for or co-operate with in any way :)
> >
> >
> > On 05/09/16 13:18, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
> > > Privacy Activists Launch Database to Track Global Sales of Surveillance
> > > Tech
> > >
> > >  > >  
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right
> > > to say it."

Re: MainStream Media <-> Western Regime Media

[John Newman]

>> 
>> Is holding that there is poor evidence for 6 million, and reasonable
>> evidence for ~2.X million, and that the USA concentration camps were no
>> better in some cases worse, the gulag another equally "fun" place to be,

I didn’t even notice this bit earlier.

You are wrong. Things were UGLY everywhere during ww2, but there is AMPLE
evidence for a number close to 6 million.  My god, why would you even wade
into this fucking toxic subject?  (why am i??)

If you could pick Auschwitz or one of the internment camps in the US, where
would you go?  Yes, fuck the US for its shameless behavior during ww2…
but double-fuck Germany.   

Talking about this makes my stomach turn.


John

>> and the propaganda around "the Jewish Holocaust" which began well before
>> WW2, and that "it's humans dude, we gotta fix us, all of us", is somehow
>> a "bad" thing?
>> 
>> And is all that, and plenty more, and nuance and subtlety, all bundled
>> into "holocaust denier" a suitable way to engage in constructive
>> conversation?
>> 


>> "Conspiracy theorists" ... that's "original" :/
> 

Re: Fwd: [Private] Hi, dear! :)

[Razer]

On 09/08/2016 01:33 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:

> squee fest

+1, with a barbecue fork for the pig 'In the neck sideways'.

Because it likes me.

Rr

Re: MainStream Media <-> Western Regime Media

[John Newman]

> On Sep 8, 2016, at 6:53 PM, Zenaan Harkness  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Sep 08, 2016 at 01:00:15PM -0700, Sean Lynch wrote:
>> On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 12:39 PM, John Newman  wrote:
>> 
>>> How about we just call it "bullshit" ? Obviously MSM is total fucking
>>> garbage
>>> 
>>> While we're at it, whats up with the constant russia-insider.com links?
>>> This shit is pure propaganda, every bit as bad as any MSM
> 
> Do you recall this question being asked twice before?
> 
> And do you recall my answer both times?
> 
> (reminder hint - it's also in the subject of some of the threads;
> also notice threading, and the ability to filter both subject lines and
> threads)
> 

I don’t see “[RUS]” in the subject of this thread.  And even if it
was, it doesn’t mean someone can’t ask what the fuck you are thinking.
Much of what you say makes sense, but the whole well is poisoned
by this constant Russian apologetic bullshit.

Why do you lick Putin's balls? Who REALLY thinks that Putin and
Russia have better intentions than the USA or any other nation in
the world?  

Reminds me of those poor “communist” dupes who spied for the USSR
throughout its history, but they didn’t want money, they did it all
for Papa Joe, and a “true workers state!” Except, we are talking
Papa Vlad, and a “true mafia state.”

I’m done pointing out your apologies for and obsession with
Russia and its dictator.  (who was never convicted of a bribe, and
might not have had anything to do with Litvinenko, and makes good
speeches!... =).


John

> 
>>> http://kremlintrolls.com/t/20150620-ri_footprint.html
>>> 
>>> http://www.stopfake.org/en/is-russia-insider-sponsored-by-a-
>>> russian-oligarch-with-the-ties-to-the-european-far-right/
>>> 
>>> http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/04/bausman-and-fraud-at-russia-insider.html
>>> 
>>> http://www.fort-russ.com/2015/11/reading-between-lines-great-war-of.html
>>> 
>>> https://nobsrussia.com/tag/russia-insider/
>>> 
>>> "Long time readers and Russia watchers know that one of the most odious
>>> pro-Kremlin
>>> sites in existence is Russia Insider. Rather than create original
>>> content, most of
>>> their articles consist of material reprinted from other sources,
>>> typically Kremlin
>>> media outlets but also including sites featuring ideological racism and
>>> Holocaust
>>> denial. What better sources for a site that still uses the “Kiev Nazi
>>> junta” trope?"
>>> 
>> 
>> Interesting that RI is associated with holocaust deniers, as I just
>> realized yesterday that Zen is himself a holocaust denier when he posted a
>> bunch of holocaust denial links.
> 
> Is holding that there is poor evidence for 6 million, and reasonable
> evidence for ~2.X million, and that the USA concentration camps were no
> better in some cases worse, the gulag another equally "fun" place to be,
> and the propaganda around "the Jewish Holocaust" which began well before
> WW2, and that "it's humans dude, we gotta fix us, all of us", is somehow
> a "bad" thing?
> 
> And is all that, and plenty more, and nuance and subtlety, all bundled
> into "holocaust denier" a suitable way to engage in constructive
> conversation?
> 
> "Conspiracy theorists" ... that's "original" :/

Re: Free speech - front lines in Australia - [perso...@bernardgaynor.com.au: Update: battle for free speech]

[Zenaan Harkness]

> but there is a line and that is what 18c is about.

Please, to make your post of the extract of 18c relevant, explain if you
are able why and how it is not a slippery slope (even assuming any or
all aspects of that act are justifiable).

And first, go check out, carefully, the definition of "slippery slope" -
Wikipedia is a reasonable first stop on some things like that.


Next, in your response re the slippery slope, try if you can to actually
consider the viewpoint of those who hold that there might be real
problems with 18c which must be handled, and to give acknowledgement to
that position, so that your assessment can be seen as nuanced, rather
than a black and white dichotomy.


Nadine there are plenty folks much smarter than I who might contribute
to such a conversation, but most of us have had a gutful of "he's a
dick, and you're all idiots for not seeing it" superficiality.


Finally, an actual example of a public statement by Bernard Gaynor,
which you say ought be held by the courts as illegal, and for the
specific reasons you name and can identify. Feel free to use the quote
you've already posted, but you might find it hard to ultimately defend
that as "unlawful" speech, either way let's see if you have a nuanced
argument.


Sincerely,
Zenaan




On Fri, Sep 09, 2016 at 06:27:03AM +0800, Nadine Earnshaw wrote:
>  
> No the issue is public vs private speech.
> There is also a difference between publicly stating an opinion and
> being abusive.
> this is what we are talking about legislatively
> 
> RACIAL DISCRIMINATION ACT 1975 - SECT 18C
> 
> OFFENSIVE BEHAVIOUR BECAUSE OF RACE, COLOUR OR NATIONAL OR ETHNIC
> ORIGIN
> 
>    (1)  It is unlawful for a person [1] to
> do an act, otherwise than in private, if:
> 
>    (a)  the act is reasonably
> likely, in all the circumstances, to offend, insult, humiliate or
> intimidate another person [2] or a group of people; and
> 
>    (b)  the act is done
> because of the race, colour or national or ethnic origin of the
> other person [3] or of some or all of the people in the group.
> 
>   Note:  Subsection (1) makes certain acts unlawful.
> Section 46P of the _Australian Human Rights Commission Act
> 1986 _allows people to make complaints to the Australian Human Rights
> Commission about unlawful acts. However, an unlawful act is not
> necessarily a criminal offence. Section 26 says that this Act does
> not make it an offence to do an act that is unlawful because of this
> Part, unless Part IV expressly says that the act is an offence.
> 
>    (2)  For the purposes of subsection (1),
> an act is taken not to be done in private if it:
> 
>    (a)  causes words, sounds,
> images or writing to be communicated to the public; or
> 
>    (b)  is done in a public
> place; or
> 
>    (c)  is done in the sight
> or hearing of people who are in a public place.
> 
>    (3)  In this section:
> 
>   _"PUBLIC PLACE " _includes any place to which the public have access
> as of right or by invitation, whether express or implied and whether
> or not a charge is made for admission to the place.
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "oshwm" 
> To:"Nadine Earnshaw" , "CypherPunks" 
> Cc:
> Sent:Thu, 08 Sep 2016 06:18:31 +0100
> Subject:Re: Free speech - front lines in Australia -
> [perso...@bernardgaynor.com.au: Update: battle for free speech]
> 
> So, free speech is ok so long as it is only used to say yhe things you
> find acceptable? :D
> 
> On 8 September 2016 04:09:38 GMT+01:00, Nadine Earnshaw  wrote:
> freedom of speech does not protect hate speechand that is what 18c
> which Bernard supports being removed.
> He is free to say
> "I wouldn't let a gay person teach my children and I am not afraid to
> say it," a Twitter post from Mr Gaynor read.
> but there is a line and that is what 18c is about.
> http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/rda1975202/s18c.html
> He is free to be a dick in private. Clearly with his being dismissed
> he has trouble with what private is.

Re: Free speech - front lines in Australia - [perso...@bernardgaynor.com.au: Update: battle for free speech]

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Thu, Sep 08, 2016 at 10:41:45PM +, jim bell wrote:
> Sounds like Australia needs the equivalent of America's First
> Amendment guarantees of freedom of speech and press.But then again,
> that's the same problem Britain has:  They don't have a written
> Constitution.          Jim Bell

Actually, we do have a written constitution, but for reasons unknown,
they did not put in the USA amendments when reviewing the USA
constitution.

Our constitution is Clause 6 to the British Act, "An Act to Constitute
the Commonwealth of Australia".

And what most Australians don't know is that we also have a bill of
rights.

A written bill of rights.

It is the old english imperial act, William & Mary Cess, commonly known
as The Bill of Rights 1688, or the English Bill of Rights etc.

This bill of rights is current law in every state in Australia.

But it too does not speak to the right to free speech.


HOWEVER, we do have rather strong free speech precedents, in our highest
court The High Court of Australia, where it is firmly upheld that for
the "democratic form of government as detailed in the constitution" to
exist, unambiguably implies the right to communication on political and
related matters.

AND Australia politicians also have parliamentary privilege (I that's
the same in the USA).

Which is kind of a loop hole, and one well used by politicians, and well
supported by our courts.


So that's an obvious loophole - every Australian could join a political
party, and claim privilege, even outside of parliament. I think there
are also specifically outside-of-parliament political discussion
"privileges" enshrined in precedent, but either way, in Australia, it's
a no brainer as we say.

Re: MainStream Media <-> Western Regime Media

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Thu, Sep 08, 2016 at 01:00:15PM -0700, Sean Lynch wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 12:39 PM, John Newman  wrote:
> 
> > How about we just call it "bullshit" ? Obviously MSM is total fucking
> > garbage
> >
> > While we're at it, whats up with the constant russia-insider.com links?
> > This shit is pure propaganda, every bit as bad as any MSM

Do you recall this question being asked twice before?

And do you recall my answer both times?

(reminder hint - it's also in the subject of some of the threads;
also notice threading, and the ability to filter both subject lines and
threads)


> > http://kremlintrolls.com/t/20150620-ri_footprint.html
> >
> > http://www.stopfake.org/en/is-russia-insider-sponsored-by-a-
> > russian-oligarch-with-the-ties-to-the-european-far-right/
> >
> > http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/04/bausman-and-fraud-at-russia-insider.html
> >
> > http://www.fort-russ.com/2015/11/reading-between-lines-great-war-of.html
> >
> > https://nobsrussia.com/tag/russia-insider/
> >
> > "Long time readers and Russia watchers know that one of the most odious
> > pro-Kremlin
> > sites in existence is Russia Insider. Rather than create original
> > content, most of
> > their articles consist of material reprinted from other sources,
> > typically Kremlin
> > media outlets but also including sites featuring ideological racism and
> > Holocaust
> > denial. What better sources for a site that still uses the “Kiev Nazi
> > junta” trope?"
> >
> 
> Interesting that RI is associated with holocaust deniers, as I just
> realized yesterday that Zen is himself a holocaust denier when he posted a
> bunch of holocaust denial links.

Is holding that there is poor evidence for 6 million, and reasonable
evidence for ~2.X million, and that the USA concentration camps were no
better in some cases worse, the gulag another equally "fun" place to be,
and the propaganda around "the Jewish Holocaust" which began well before
WW2, and that "it's humans dude, we gotta fix us, all of us", is somehow
a "bad" thing?

And is all that, and plenty more, and nuance and subtlety, all bundled
into "holocaust denier" a suitable way to engage in constructive
conversation?

"Conspiracy theorists" ... that's "original" :/

Re: Free speech - front lines in Australia - [perso...@bernardgaynor.com.au: Update: battle for free speech]

[jim bell]

Sounds like Australia needs the equivalent of America's First Amendment 
guarantees of freedom of speech and press.But then again, that's the same 
problem Britain has:  They don't have a written Constitution.          Jim Bell

  From: Nadine Earnshaw 
 To: cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org 
 Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2016 3:27 PM
 Subject: Re: Free speech - front lines in Australia - 
[perso...@bernardgaynor.com.au: Update: battle for free speech]
   
 
No the issue is public vs private speech.
There is also a difference between publicly stating an opinion and being 
abusive.
this is what we are talking about legislatively


RACIAL DISCRIMINATION ACT 1975 - SECT 18C
Offensive behaviour because of race, colour or national or ethnic origin
 (1)  It is unlawful for a person to do an act, otherwise than in private, 
if: (a)  the act is reasonably likely, in all the 
circumstances, to offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate another person or a 
group of people; and (b)  the act is done because of the 
race, colour or national or ethnic origin of the other person or of some or all 
of the people in the group.Note:  Subsection (1) makes certain acts 
unlawful. Section 46P of the Australian Human Rights Commission Act 1986 allows 
people to make complaints to the Australian Human Rights Commission about 
unlawful acts. However, an unlawful act is not necessarily a criminal offence. 
Section 26 says that this Act does not make it an offence to do an act that is 
unlawful because of this Part, unless Part IV expressly says that the act is an 
offence. (2)  For the purposes of subsection (1), an act is taken 
not to be done in private if it: (a)  causes words, sounds, 
images or writing to be communicated to the public; or (b)  
is done in a public place; or (c)  is done in the sight or 
hearing of people who are in a public place. (3)  In this 
section:"public place " includes any place to which the public have access as 
of right or by invitation, whether express or implied and whether or not a 
charge is made for admission to the place.



- Original Message -
From: "oshwm" 
To:"Nadine Earnshaw" , "CypherPunks" 

Cc:
Sent:Thu, 08 Sep 2016 06:18:31 +0100
Subject:Re: Free speech - front lines in Australia - 
[perso...@bernardgaynor.com.au: Update: battle for free speech]


So, free speech is ok so long as it is only used to say yhe things you find 
acceptable? :D


On 8 September 2016 04:09:38 GMT+01:00, Nadine Earnshaw  
wrote:

freedom of speech does not protect hate speech

and that is what 18c which Bernard supports being removed.




He is free to say




"I wouldn't let a gay person teach my children and I am not afraid to say it," 
a Twitter post from Mr Gaynor read.




but there is a line and that is what 18c is about.




http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/rda1975202/s18c.html




He is free to be a dick in private. Clearly with his being dismissed he has 
trouble with what private is.






 >>Bernard Gaynor is a controversial Australian with conservative
pro-family views whom some would say is ultra-conservative, to which I
would counter "that's just your post-modern moral relativism which
dominates the current Western public and social dialogue".

So, notwithstanding anyone's particular views on any particular issue
which Bernard Gaynor stands for and champions (at least one of which I
strongly disagree with), his stand for freedom of speech is superb,
courageous, persistent, and thyankfully a following has formed which
donates to keep him and his family afloat in the face of the legal fees
and the many personal sacrifices he has chosen to make, and some which
he has and continues to suffer at the hands of his opponents, including
the chief of the Australian Army who stepped down to an early retirement
in "moral disgrace" and knowing that he would not survive his very
political attack against Bernard Gaynor's personal stands as an
Australian Army reserve man (he sacked Bernard amongst other things).

So plenty to debate, but the guts of this is free speech and the long
standing statutory infractions against our right to freedom of speech,
and in particular as we name it for necessary but quirky reasons in
Australia for legal and constitutional purposes:

 freedom to communicate on political and related matters

Good luck Bernard,



- Forwarded message from Bernard Gaynor -
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2016 01:07:53 +
From: Bernard Gaynor 
To: Zenaan Harkiss 
Reply-To: Bernard Gaynor 
Subject: Update: battle for free speech

View this email in your browser 

Re: Privacy Activists Launch Database to Track Global Sales of Surveillance Tech

[Zenaan Harkness]

google


On Thu, Sep 08, 2016 at 07:52:36PM +0100, oshwm wrote:
> This is incredibly useful as it gives a good list of companies not to
> work for or co-operate with in any way :)
> 
> 
> On 05/09/16 13:18, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
> > Privacy Activists Launch Database to Track Global Sales of Surveillance
> > Tech
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right
> > to say it."

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent (was: Re: moving on))

[Me]

Agreed.

On September 5, 2016 11:15:49 AM CDT, "Александр"  wrote:
>forwarding part of my private conversation to the whole list:
>
>The new list is not the preferable solution, you know. It's the only
>thing
>we see right now, but... We should realize, that this splitting up will
>KILL the original list. It will kill the whole concept and the core
>idea of
>the Cypher-Punk list/movement.
>
>The Snowden revelations and all the shit going on in the world in the
>last
>10 years has brought us (people with brain & spirit) to a clear and
>unambiguous understanding that *"THE CYPHERPUNK LIST-CONCEPT MUST
>EVOLVE,
>-> THUS MUST BE CHANGED, BECOMING MUCH BROADER". *And the focus, as
>John
>Young wrote, cannot be on Apolitical (relatively) crypto-math-numbers
>only
>as it was before...
>
>Times have irreversibly changed -> thus the issues for discussion must
>be
>much much *BROADER*.
>.

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: MainStream Media <-> Western Regime Media

[Sean Lynch]

On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 12:39 PM, John Newman  wrote:

> How about we just call it "bullshit" ? Obviously MSM is total fucking
> garbage
>
> While we're at it, whats up with the constant russia-insider.com links?
> This shit is pure propaganda, every bit as bad as any MSM
>
>
> http://kremlintrolls.com/t/20150620-ri_footprint.html
>
> http://www.stopfake.org/en/is-russia-insider-sponsored-by-a-
> russian-oligarch-with-the-ties-to-the-european-far-right/
>
> http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/04/bausman-and-fraud-at-russia-insider.html
>
> http://www.fort-russ.com/2015/11/reading-between-lines-great-war-of.html
>
> https://nobsrussia.com/tag/russia-insider/
>
> "Long time readers and Russia watchers know that one of the most odious
> pro-Kremlin
> sites in existence is Russia Insider. Rather than create original
> content, most of
> their articles consist of material reprinted from other sources,
> typically Kremlin
> media outlets but also including sites featuring ideological racism and
> Holocaust
> denial. What better sources for a site that still uses the “Kiev Nazi
> junta” trope?"
>

Interesting that RI is associated with holocaust deniers, as I just
realized yesterday that Zen is himself a holocaust denier when he posted a
bunch of holocaust denial links.

Re: Privacy Activists Launch Database to Track Global Sales of Surveillance Tech

[oshwm]

This is incredibly useful as it gives a good list of companies not to
work for or co-operate with in any way :)


On 05/09/16 13:18, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
> Privacy Activists Launch Database to Track Global Sales of Surveillance
> Tech
> 
> 
> 
> --
> "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right
> to say it."
> 



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

[OT] "Earth Observation from Space: the Optical View"

[Cecilia Tanaka]

Sorry, it's completely OT, but learning more about the Earth and the Space
is always beautiful!  <3

==

"Earth Observation from Space: the Optical View"

Discover how optical Earth observation data is gathered and used in this
free online course from the European Space Agency (ESA).

Free Online Course – starts 12 Sep

https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/optical-earth-observation

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say it."

Re: Philosophokiddies

[Razer]

On 09/08/2016 09:32 AM, jim bell resonds to:
> *From:*Stephen D. Williams 



>> Groups will develop feudal protection rackets, clans, private
protection details, and events, mistakes or not, will trigger a cascade
of blood >feuds.

> Why will they need that?  Will they do any good?

Dunno. But, as the corporate slogan goes, "People Do", anyway.

Someone once said survival insecurity is humanity's driving force.

John Lennon had it as:

"Happiness is a warm gun .. bang bang shoot shoot."

Rr

> 
> 
> 
> On 9/7/16 5:59 PM, jim bell wrote:
>> *From:*Stephen D. Williams  
>> On 9/6/16 9:01 PM, jim bell wrote:
>> ...
>> >I didn't comment about it.  The Purge movies always remind me of AP. 
>> Not the same, but related.
>> http://www.thepurgemovie.co.uk/
>>
>> >My preference is to consider ideas that are likely to improve
>> things.  AP doesn't seem promising, although good to keep in mind.
>>
>> >>That's a rather weak answer.  Why is AP unlikely to improve things?
>>  Some people have said it will work "too well".  Be specific.  What do
>> >>you say are its faults?  Will it get rid of governments?  Will it
>> defend libertarian or anarchic regions?
> 
>>A system where anyone can be targeted for any reason will cause fear,
> certainty seeking, last resort alliance building, fatalist resignation
> and >cynicism in the general population, and similar to spiral out of
> control. 
> 
> Imagine you're living in a different country, with no 2nd Amendment.
>  Nobody can own guns, at least not legally.   Now imagine somebody
> advocates allowing 'anyone' to walk into a gun store, buy a gun and
> ammunition.   Somebody else points out that if a person can buy a gun,
> he can walk out of the store, load the gun, and shoot to death anyone he
> sees on the street.  Does that circumstance justify not changing the
> laws to what we have in America, today?  I say, "no".  The mere
> existence of a possible negative scenario doesn't mean that such rights
> shouldn't exist.
> 
> 
>> Groups will develop feudal protection rackets, clans, private
> protection details, and events, mistakes or not, will trigger a cascade
> of blood >feuds.
> 
> Why will they need that?  Will they do any good?  
> 
>>I haven't analyzed it thoroughly, at a glance it seems that kind of
> negative dynamic, regardless of actual risk, will sour the whole society.
> 
> That's the problem.  You haven't thought about it, and certainly not
> sufficiently.
>  Jim Bell
>>>
>>> >>Also, take a look at this:
>>>  
>>> https://steemit.com/assassinationpolitics/@dollarvigilante/world-exclusive-first-interview-with-jim-bell-of-assassination-politics-since-released-from-jail
>>>   
>>>
> 
> 
> 

Re: Cypherpunks Charter

[Cypher Piggie]

> pricks, CIA shills, and trolls

you mean juan the usa citizen

Re: Cypherpunks Charter

[Zenaan Harkness]

Stephen, a hint: when real men realise they have ridiculed someone
unfairly, for example with shit like this:

> > Do you suffer from some version of, as my friend used to say, "post
> > 1960's perception disorder"?

they apologise.

Power tripping pricks, CIA shills, wanna be list censors and trolls in
general, strangely find doing so "really difficult".

But the heart maketh the man as they say..




On Tue, Sep 06, 2016 at 07:06:54PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 05, 2016 at 01:05:00PM -0700, Stephen D. Williams wrote:
> > On 9/5/16 12:44 PM, Razer wrote:
> > >
> > > On 09/05/2016 12:21 PM, Stephen D. Williams wrote:
> > >> Regardless of what Tim may or may not have wanted to happen in some or
> > >> all cases, it doesn't say it in his signature, or in the manifesto.
> > >
> > > He's saying it with his LIFE dude. Maybe you need to get one too?
> > 
> > Do you think that you are clearly communicating?
> > 
> > Do you suffer from some version of, as my friend used to say, "post
> > 1960's perception disorder"?
> 
> When widicule won't work, (attempt to) hibwow your opponent!
> 
> Oh, wait, hah! that's just more widicule! Who woulda thunked it from
> Stephen De Widicurler? :D
> 
> May be one to add to the Troll Tools COINTELPRO list :)
> 
> 
> > > Ps. I've met Tim in passing over my 40 year residence in the area. Never
> > > even knew of his significance you know?
> > >
> > > I don't know if you've ever been to Corralitos, so I'll tell you EXACTLY
> > > WHY he's "gone all hermit with a gun". When he moved up there it was
> > > outlaw land in Santa Cruz County. Gravel roads, NO BEEMERS, they didn't
> > > want to chip their car's paint and gravel is rough on suspension parts
> > > et al. Pot growers everywhere. Last Chance Road, north of Santa Cruz was
> > > another such place. Above Boulder Creek ditto. The office crowd didn't
> > > want to live up some slightly improved logging road.
> > >
> > > Fast forward 2 or 3 decades of unchecked gentrification in the Santa
> > > Cruz mountains. Now he's surrounded... by people just... like... you.
> > > That's why he owns a gun.
> > 
> > So, he's afraid of being taken down by gentrifying suburban development?  
> > Soccer moms in expensive cars?  Surfers with nice
> > driveways?  In Santa Cruz?
> > 
> > I'm not sure I can take any more of this "EXACTLY WHY" "clear" 
> > communication today.  I'd like to do something useful with my time.
> 
> Hmm, like overthrow your criminal government ... oh wait, that's wight,
> you work for Da Man!
> 
> 
> All praise! Stephen Dee Widdle!
> 
> 
> > > Rr
> > 
> > sdw

Re: MainStream Media <-> Western Regime Media

[Cypher Piggie]

> much more ACCURATE name to this shit propaganda machine.

more accurate juan is usa citizen
and his shitmachine is to troll and abuse ppl and call them names like his
own usa NAZI self

Re: Philosophokiddies

[Cypher Piggie]

tor is piece of shit company just like usa citizen agent troll juan who
have 100E on his head

Re: Philosophokiddies

[oshwm]

Is it just me or did poking the Censored Tor hornets nest release a very poorly 
scripted attack of retardedness from low level butthurt CIA apologists :D



On 8 September 2016 13:32:14 GMT+01:00, Cypher Piggie  
wrote:
>lets target juan that USA troll. 100 euro now on his lil green troll
>head.
>and see how that bullshit anarchy troll topic he always spew works in
>real
>life.
>
>
>
>> A system where anyone can be targeted for any reason will cause fear,
>> certainty seeking, last resort alliance building, fatalist
>> resignation and cynicism in the general population, and similar to
>spiral
>> out of control.  Groups will develop feudal protection
>> rackets, clans, private protection details, and events, mistakes or
>not,
>> will trigger a cascade of blood feuds.

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: Philosophokiddies

[Cypher Piggie]

lets target juan that USA troll. 100 euro now on his lil green troll head.
and see how that bullshit anarchy troll topic he always spew works in real
life.



> A system where anyone can be targeted for any reason will cause fear,
> certainty seeking, last resort alliance building, fatalist
> resignation and cynicism in the general population, and similar to spiral
> out of control.  Groups will develop feudal protection
> rackets, clans, private protection details, and events, mistakes or not,
> will trigger a cascade of blood feuds.

Re: [WAR] America - the indispensable, exceptional nation

[Cypher Piggie]

WAR POLITICS /blah balh balh spam spam spam spam
balh balh spam balh balh spam balh balh spam balh balh spam

Re: [Private] Hi, dear! :)

[Cypher Piggie]

> I noticed that you don't like Juan

Juan is a TROLL and a US Citizen.

> Zenaan

is boring as fuck craphammering the list just as much as dumbass juan

> Razer

is the shit, a true og from back in them days.

> you
> are
> disturbing the whole cypherpunks list just because of them?

THEY are disturbin list first and way too much with their dumb selfs.

JUAN IS A TROLL FROM THE USA.
BORN IN THE USA

[that chump zen can sing that]


> no humiliations

juan humiliates ppl in public on list for fun.
fuck juan and his mean lil mal cogido prick with his troll playbook


> it isn't correct to disturb the whole cpunks list

tell that to the FUCK TROLL JUAN
and his masters


> try to create good
> threads, with good arguments

tell that to them
except zenan cuz he'll explode your mail with crying text phonebook size

> discussions.

juan dont discuss anything his brain is pea sized juan has NOTHING to add
but insult and hate and rage he's a FUCKING TROLL and an unfunny PRICK
that's his job.

> Please, let's make together a better list, not destroy this one.  I

they destroyed it.

> Kisses, hugs and take care!  Good night, sweet dreams and tender oink

what is this, masturbation...

[POLITICS] [RUS] God Praise America ! Russian Paralympians banned

[Zenaan Harkness]

Hoo yah! We LOVE America. God bless America!!!


Belarus Athletes Carry Russia Flag in Support of Unjustly Banned
Paralympians
http://russia-insider.com/en/belarus-athletes-carry-russia-flag-support-unjustly-banned-paralympians/ri16326
(Alt:
https://www.rt.com/sport/358613-belarus-russian-flag-paralympics/
)


Nope, no dirty American laundry here folks - move along now!




On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 02:08:38PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 5:11 AM Zenaan Harkness  wrote:
> > > If anyone wanted an example of propaganda and political bullying:
> > >
> > > "The IAAF and now the sports bodies of the US and Canada are not only
> > > demanding that Russian athletes prove their innocence before they can
> > > take part in the Games.  They also demand that even if athletes prove
> > > their innocence, they should only be allowed to take part in the Games
> > > as “neutrals” and not as Russians.  Thus even if proved innocent Russian
> > > athletes would have to deny their nation and their country – foregoing
> > > the right to wear its colours or hear its anthem if they win."
> > >
> > > http://theduran.com/stalinist-witch-hunt-russian-athletes/
> > >
> > >
> > > (I'm not sure anyone takes seriously the assertion that USA basically
> > > does not use propaganda, only speaks truth and righteousness - I find it
> > > quite amazing that such an assertion was even put in this mailing list
> > > but I guess it's possible -some- people do believe that...)
> 
> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 06:07:05PM +, Sean Lynch wrote:
> > Participate as a country, dope as a country, get banned as a country. Maybe
> > Russia should clean its house if it wants representation at the games. Or
> > if the institution itself is illegitimate, why do Russians want to
> > represent their country so badly at the games?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh well, the IOC refused to ban "the entire Russian Olympic team,
> regardless", but ultimately "justice" is served - with the banning of,
> wait for it,
> 
>   the entire Russian --Paralympic-- team.
> 
> 
>   YEAH!
> 
> 
> Now -that-'s "justice", right Sean? Punish those paraplegic bastards!
> Every last one of them, whether guilty or not!!!
> 
> YEAH! U! S! A!  Delivering JUSTICE to THE WORLD!
> 
> 
> God -damn- we need to be greatful to America!
> 
> And what a wonderful world we live in... so much empathy, harmony and
> justice.
> 
> 
> 
>  God Praise America!!!
> 
> 
> (Yes, AND you, CIA, you snivelling grovelling sluts! Thank you SO much
> for this effective, decisive and ultimately just and  righteous, psyops
> campaign.  Fucken A!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ** Vladimir Putin slams Paralympic ban; Congratulates Russian athletes
> (http://theduran.com/putin-slams-paralympic-ban-congratulates-russian-athletes/)
> 
> By Alexander Mercouris on Aug 26, 2016 02:00 pm
> russia paralympics
> 
> Russian President Putin has just given a scathing assessment
> (http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/52765) of the collective ban
> on Russia’s Paralympic Team.
> 
> In doing so he has made it quite clear that he – like most Russians –
> sees the ban as purely political and completely rejects the reasoning
> behind it…
> 
> “The decision to disqualify our Paralympic athletes goes beyond law,
> morality and humanity. It is quite simply cynical to take out one’s
> revenge and frustration on people for whom sport has become their life
> purpose and whose example gives hope and self-confidence to millions of
> people with disabilities. I even feel pity for those who take decisions
> of this kind because they do not understand just how degrading this is
> for them.”
> 
> (Bold italics added)
> 
> The words “revenge and frustration” quite clearly show that Putin sees
> the campaign to ban the Russian Paralympic team as an act of spite and
> revenge for the failure to achieve a collective ban of the Russian
> Olympic team.
> 
> The Russians have made it clear that they do not agree with the legal
> reasoning of the CAS decision upholding the ban,
> (http://theduran.com/court-arbitration-sport-upholds-ban-russian-paralympic-team/)
> and that they will continue to contest it in the civil courts and in the
> European Court of Human Rights.
> 
> As I have said previously, there is no doubt the Russians will pursue
> legal action to its conclusion in this affair
> (http://theduran.com/trying-ban-team-russia-olympics-big-mistake/) .
> With the International Paralympic Committee looking at a disastrous
> failure of the Paralympic Games in Rio and apparently short of money, it
> may not be in good shape to contest whatever court cases the Russians
> bring, or to pay any court awards the Russians might win.
> 
> In addition to his comments about the Paralympic ban, Putin also made
> some very interesting comments about the Russian athletes who competed
> in the Rio Olympic Games
> 
> “We know what a difficult time our athletes