Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Alexander Wirt]

On Thu, 06 Sep 2018, Manas Kashyap wrote:

> well , i am not counting anything just thee world sees whats shown to them
> and sending someone who dont have even one contribution in previous one
> year , nah i dont think thats right . Because , many who aren't in GSoC are
> part of Debian community , for them contribution is the most biggest
> criteria and for them it will be like , inner politics going on and so
> things are happening .
You have no clue what gsoc is about. 

Alex

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Manas Kashyap]

well , i am not counting anything just thee world sees whats shown to them
and sending someone who dont have even one contribution in previous one
year , nah i dont think thats right . Because , many who aren't in GSoC are
part of Debian community , for them contribution is the most biggest
criteria and for them it will be like , inner politics going on and so
things are happening .

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 10:23 AM Alexander Wirt  wrote:

> On Wed, 05 Sep 2018, Manas Kashyap wrote:
>
> > How is random fair ? I am not getting it , plus if contributions are not
> > only measurement , then i already asked everyone to show their atleaset
> > some work ? , and many of the mentors dont have even one contribution ,
> so
> > i am not getting it . Really
> just a short follow up after a night of sleep. I have no idea what you
> counted - I for myself have no idea how to count contributions of a mentor
> to
> gsoc. I also acted as mentor for a project, how did you counted my
> contribution as mentor?
>
> If you can't rate the mentor performance of a mentor, all metrics are
> unfair
> or unrelated.
>
> Alex
>

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Dashamir Hoxha]

On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 5:10 PM Manas Kashyap 
wrote:

> How is random fair ? I am not getting it , plus if contributions are not
> only measurement , then i already asked everyone to show their atleaset
> some work ? , and many of the mentors dont have even one contribution , so
> i am not getting it . Really
>

Manas, let it go. Let's focus on more productive discussions.
It is the right of admins to make rules and decisions, let's respect their
rights.

If you were admin, maybe you would have done things differently, but I doubt
that everyone would have been happy with your decisions.
I volunteered to be an admin at the beginning of GSoC and thanks God I was
ignored. Had I been an admin I would have been much more assertive than
the current admins. For example I would have requested every project to use
GitHub, and thus I would have alienated more than half of the mentors and
students. I think that you would not have done better if you were an admin.

By the way, random selection seems the only fair selection to me,
when everyone has tried his best to be a good mentor.

Regards,
Dashamir

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Manas Kashyap]

How is random fair ? I am not getting it , plus if contributions are not
only measurement , then i already asked everyone to show their atleaset
some work ? , and many of the mentors dont have even one contribution , so
i am not getting it . Really

On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 8:35 PM Alexander Wirt  wrote:

> On Wed, 05 Sep 2018, Manas Kashyap wrote:
>
> > I agree with you. I already researched on number of candidates who wanted
> > to go and can go for the summit and showed their contributions and all ,
> > and i hope that was enough for everyone to choose the right decision ?
> I don't think contributions are the only measurement. For me its extremly
> hard to come up with a fair, countable metric. Random is at least fair.
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 8:07 PM Alexander Wirt 
> wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 05 Sep 2018, Manas Kashyap wrote:
> > >
> > > > random decision for a google mentor summit , i am not getting it .
> > > What would have been better in your eyes? we had a number of
> candidates. We
> > > had to choose one.
> > >
> > > Alex
> > >
>

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Alexander Wirt]

On Wed, 05 Sep 2018, Manas Kashyap wrote:

> I agree with you. I already researched on number of candidates who wanted
> to go and can go for the summit and showed their contributions and all ,
> and i hope that was enough for everyone to choose the right decision ?
I don't think contributions are the only measurement. For me its extremly
hard to come up with a fair, countable metric. Random is at least fair.
> 
> On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 8:07 PM Alexander Wirt  wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 05 Sep 2018, Manas Kashyap wrote:
> >
> > > random decision for a google mentor summit , i am not getting it .
> > What would have been better in your eyes? we had a number of candidates. We
> > had to choose one.
> >
> > Alex
> >

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Manas Kashyap]

I agree with you. I already researched on number of candidates who wanted
to go and can go for the summit and showed their contributions and all ,
and i hope that was enough for everyone to choose the right decision ?

On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 8:07 PM Alexander Wirt  wrote:

> On Wed, 05 Sep 2018, Manas Kashyap wrote:
>
> > random decision for a google mentor summit , i am not getting it .
> What would have been better in your eyes? we had a number of candidates. We
> had to choose one.
>
> Alex
>

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Alexander Wirt]

On Wed, 05 Sep 2018, Manas Kashyap wrote:

> random decision for a google mentor summit , i am not getting it .
What would have been better in your eyes? we had a number of candidates. We
had to choose one. 

Alex

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Manas Kashyap]

random decision for a google mentor summit , i am not getting it .

On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 11:32 AM Manas Kashyap 
wrote:

> and as all the talk was in the mailing list , why not we get to know , the
> selected mentors name before hand ?
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 11:23 AM Manas Kashyap 
> wrote:
>
>> I am not getting on which basis the mentors are choosen ?? , Debian
>> community wants to know
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 2:10 AM Alexander Wirt 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 05 Sep 2018, Chirayu Desai wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > Any updates on this?
>>> >
>>> > The deadline to register for the summit is 5 September aka today.
>>> The decision has been made and we chose Jaminy and Milena.
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>>

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Alexander Wirt]

On Wed, 05 Sep 2018, Manas Kashyap wrote:

> and as all the talk was in the mailing list , why not we get to know , the
> selected mentors name before hand ?
because I thought my answer went to the list.

Alex

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Alexander Wirt]

On Wed, 05 Sep 2018, Manas Kashyap wrote:

> I am not getting on which basis the mentors are choosen ?? , Debian
> community wants to know
One Admin (there was only one candidate) and a random decision for the
mentor. 

Alex

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Manas Kashyap]

and as all the talk was in the mailing list , why not we get to know , the
selected mentors name before hand ?


On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 11:23 AM Manas Kashyap 
wrote:

> I am not getting on which basis the mentors are choosen ?? , Debian
> community wants to know
>
> On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 2:10 AM Alexander Wirt 
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 05 Sep 2018, Chirayu Desai wrote:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > Any updates on this?
>> >
>> > The deadline to register for the summit is 5 September aka today.
>> The decision has been made and we chose Jaminy and Milena.
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Manas Kashyap]

I am not getting on which basis the mentors are choosen ?? , Debian
community wants to know

On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 2:10 AM Alexander Wirt  wrote:

> On Wed, 05 Sep 2018, Chirayu Desai wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Any updates on this?
> >
> > The deadline to register for the summit is 5 September aka today.
> The decision has been made and we chose Jaminy and Milena.
>
> Alex
>
>

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Alexander Wirt]

On Wed, 05 Sep 2018, Chirayu Desai wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Any updates on this?
> 
> The deadline to register for the summit is 5 September aka today.
The decision has been made and we chose Jaminy and Milena. 

Alex

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Chirayu Desai]

Hi,

As mentor I got an email from Google about the final evaluations, and
noticed that it also mentioned the mentor summit slots are filling up.
Some might require to apply for a US Visa as well, and that does take time.

I hope that a decision can be made ASAP, so that whoever does end up
getting selected can attend the summit.

Regards,
Chirayu Desai

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Manas Kashyap]

Thank you for your appreciation ,
But i really feel i am not ready to be an Admin , as its one of the most
responsible work in a project , although i have contributions and skill but
my first aim is to be a gsocer , and unfortunately this year i was rejected
, but i am happy that a well deserving candidate was selected on that
project , and i am looking forward to apply next year again .

And answer to your question about how Hamara is better than Debian , its
not better than any Debian , after all its a derivative of Debian . just
some factors are there and hope this link will help you out , if not , then
i would like you to please connnect with us in our mailing list or telegram
or IRC , and we would love to have your questions answered .
https://www.hamaralinux.org/faqs/

And i hope Dashamir you agree with my names to be sent for Mentor summit .
Thanking you

On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 11:39 AM, Dashamir Hoxha 
wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 7:02 AM Manas Kashyap 
> wrote:
>
>> So the candidates that i think should go are Lucas Kanashiro and Chirayu
>> Desai  , as they have some great contributions that are visible to the
>> users and contributors .
>> Thee reason is quite clear that their contributions are visible and if we
>> go with FCFS , then yeah FCFS is also applicable here
>>
>
> I agree that they both deserve it and would be good representatives.
> But the contribution that is being rewarded here is mentoring during the
> current GSoC.
> If one of them is your mentor (or both of them), don't you think that you
> are biased?
> Don't you think that it is the admins' right to make the right selection?
>
> So , Mentors I am Manas Kashyap ,and undergrad at Amity University Noida
>> and also an open source contributor , i have also contributed to debian in
>> form of packaging modules and bugs resolving , i am one of the organisers
>> of ILUGD (India Linux User Group Delhi) PyJaipur , and also , heads of many
>> college clubs like ALiAS (Amity Linux Assistance Sapiens) , Amity Android
>> Club , Amity Game Development Club , Amity ACE club , these are all
>> technical clubs in Amity .
>> I have been part of organising team for Confluence [1] , one of the
>> biggest technical event in Delhi .
>> I have taken many workshop in ILUGD on Debian , and also organised other
>> workshops too . I have attended many workshops too , like rootconf India ,
>> RpiJam Delhi .
>> I am one of the core developer for HamaraLinux Team .
>>
>> http://wiki.debian.org/ManasKashyap
>> [1] http://www.amity.edu/aset/confluence2018/
>> http://about.me/manaskashyap/
>> https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=manaskashyapt...@gmail.com
>> https://www.meetup.com/members/227005816/
>>
>
> With so many skills and contributions I wonder why you did not apply to
> become an admin. Maybe you could have done it perfectly.
> I wonder how does HamaraLinux support Democracy and how is it better than
> Debian?
>
>

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Dashamir Hoxha]

On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 7:02 AM Manas Kashyap 
wrote:

> So the candidates that i think should go are Lucas Kanashiro and Chirayu
> Desai  , as they have some great contributions that are visible to the
> users and contributors .
> Thee reason is quite clear that their contributions are visible and if we
> go with FCFS , then yeah FCFS is also applicable here
>

I agree that they both deserve it and would be good representatives.
But the contribution that is being rewarded here is mentoring during the
current GSoC.
If one of them is your mentor (or both of them), don't you think that you
are biased?
Don't you think that it is the admins' right to make the right selection?

So , Mentors I am Manas Kashyap ,and undergrad at Amity University Noida
> and also an open source contributor , i have also contributed to debian in
> form of packaging modules and bugs resolving , i am one of the organisers
> of ILUGD (India Linux User Group Delhi) PyJaipur , and also , heads of many
> college clubs like ALiAS (Amity Linux Assistance Sapiens) , Amity Android
> Club , Amity Game Development Club , Amity ACE club , these are all
> technical clubs in Amity .
> I have been part of organising team for Confluence [1] , one of the
> biggest technical event in Delhi .
> I have taken many workshop in ILUGD on Debian , and also organised other
> workshops too . I have attended many workshops too , like rootconf India ,
> RpiJam Delhi .
> I am one of the core developer for HamaraLinux Team .
>
> http://wiki.debian.org/ManasKashyap
> [1] http://www.amity.edu/aset/confluence2018/
> http://about.me/manaskashyap/
> https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=manaskashyapt...@gmail.com
> https://www.meetup.com/members/227005816/
>

With so many skills and contributions I wonder why you did not apply to
become an admin. Maybe you could have done it perfectly.
I wonder how does HamaraLinux support Democracy and how is it better than
Debian?

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Manas Kashyap]

So the candidates that i think should go are Lucas Kanashiro and Chirayu
Desai  , as they have some great contributions that are visible to the
users and contributors .
Thee reason is quite clear that their contributions are visible and if we
go with FCFS , then yeah FCFS is also applicable here

So , Mentors I am Manas Kashyap ,and undergrad at Amity University Noida
and also an open source contributor , i have also contributed to debian in
form of packaging modules and bugs resolving , i am one of the organisers
of ILUGD (India Linux User Group Delhi) PyJaipur , and also , heads of many
college clubs like ALiAS (Amity Linux Assistance Sapiens) , Amity Android
Club , Amity Game Development Club , Amity ACE club , these are all
technical clubs in Amity .
I have been part of organising team for Confluence [1] , one of the biggest
technical event in Delhi .
I have taken many workshop in ILUGD on Debian , and also organised other
workshops too . I have attended many workshops too , like rootconf India ,
RpiJam Delhi .
I am one of the core developer for HamaraLinux Team .

http://wiki.debian.org/ManasKashyap
[1] http://www.amity.edu/aset/confluence2018/
http://about.me/manaskashyap/
https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=manaskashyapt...@gmail.com
https://www.meetup.com/members/227005816/


On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 9:12 PM, Dashamir Hoxha 
wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 4:54 PM Manas Kashyap 
> wrote:
>
>> Thank you , Dashamir for your support , can you name those two candidates
>> ??
>>
>
> Manas why do you want me to speak for you??
>
> Why don't you show us the best candidates and the reasons that support
> your decision,
> and then I can let you know whether this is what I think you had in mind.
>
> By the way, why don't you show us something about yourself and your
> profile,
> your contributions and skills etc. so that we can have an idea whether you
> are
> qualified to make good business management decisions.
>
> Thanks for your understanding,
> Dashamir
>
>

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Daniel Pocock]

On 11/08/18 09:32, Dashamir Hoxha wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:03 PM Manas Kashyap
> mailto:manaskashyapt...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> I agree with this point , and sorry , is there a criteria like only
> girls admin can go for it .
> 
> 
> In my opinion, any selection criteria that can be defined now, can be
> valid (if decided)
> only for the next GSoC. Because it seems not fair to change or make up
> rules in the
> middle of the game.
> 

You make a very good point about precedent and about setting
expectations from the time people sign-up to do mentoring, I've noted
that in the wiki.

This email clarifies the procedure applied in the past:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-outreach/2016/08/msg00045.html





> So, for this year, since no criteria can be valid, it remains to the
> admins to make the selection
> as they think it best.

I would welcome the views of other admins, Molly and I already
contributed our thoughts

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Manas Kashyap]

Thank you , Dashamir for your support , can you name those two candidates ??

On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 8:14 PM, Dashamir Hoxha 
wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 9:57 AM Manas Kashyap 
> wrote:
>
>> I agree with Dashamir , but there is still time , so just  a quick review
>> of their contribution and you get the result and so i shared my research
>> too , so the result you can also see who is more deserving ,  Yeah there
>> shouldn't be any criteria or rules  for everything , but what i learned in
>> open source is you are introduced by the contributions you have done , so
>> send someone who has more contributions and so , there is my research ,
>> just look into it , i assure you will get a result soon .
>> Lemme Share my Research Again
>>
>
> I agree with your selection. I think that both of the people that you have
> highlighted
> deserve to be selected and they would be good representatives of the
> Debian GSoC community.
> I would also add Molly on the waiting list, if she agrees. This would be
> my decision if I was admin.
>
> Regards,
> Dashamir
>

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Manas Kashyap]

I too know , Debian , doesn't happen at github . and yeah i know not all
contribution can be captured in git , but , some of the mentors don't have
anything on git , so can you justify this thing ? or atleast ask them to
share their work profile , like the commits or all , so that we can see
their contribution in debian.

On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 6:59 PM, Antonio Terceiro 
wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 01:26:50PM +0530, Manas Kashyap wrote:
> > I agree with Dashamir , but there is still time , so just  a quick review
> > of their contribution and you get the result and so i shared my research
> > too , so the result you can also see who is more deserving ,  Yeah there
> > shouldn't be any criteria or rules  for everything , but what i learned
> in
> > open source is you are introduced by the contributions you have done , so
> > send someone who has more contributions and so , there is my research ,
> > just look into it , i assure you will get a result soon .
> > Lemme Share my Research Again
> >
> > Milena Lavanchyhttps://github.com/MilenaLavanchy
> > 
> >
> > Jaminy Prabaharan
> > https://github.com/Jaminy
> > https://salsa.debian.org/Jaminy-guest
> >
> > *Urvika Gola*
> > https://salsa.debian.org/urvikagola-guest
> > https://github.com/Urvika-gola
> >
> > Dashamir Hoxha
> > https://github.com/dashohoxha
>
> Note that Debian does not happen at github, so sharing links to github
> profiles over and over again is not relevant to this discussion. Also,
> not all contributions to Debian can be caputured in git repositories.
>
> Your point has been made. If you keep insisting, it will not only not
> help it, but it will also allienate people.
>

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Antonio Terceiro]

On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 01:26:50PM +0530, Manas Kashyap wrote:
> I agree with Dashamir , but there is still time , so just  a quick review
> of their contribution and you get the result and so i shared my research
> too , so the result you can also see who is more deserving ,  Yeah there
> shouldn't be any criteria or rules  for everything , but what i learned in
> open source is you are introduced by the contributions you have done , so
> send someone who has more contributions and so , there is my research ,
> just look into it , i assure you will get a result soon .
> Lemme Share my Research Again
> 
> Milena Lavanchyhttps://github.com/MilenaLavanchy
> 
> 
> Jaminy Prabaharan
> https://github.com/Jaminy
> https://salsa.debian.org/Jaminy-guest
> 
> *Urvika Gola*
> https://salsa.debian.org/urvikagola-guest
> https://github.com/Urvika-gola
> 
> Dashamir Hoxha
> https://github.com/dashohoxha

Note that Debian does not happen at github, so sharing links to github
profiles over and over again is not relevant to this discussion. Also,
not all contributions to Debian can be caputured in git repositories.

Your point has been made. If you keep insisting, it will not only not
help it, but it will also allienate people.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Manas Kashyap]

I agree with Dashamir , but there is still time , so just  a quick review
of their contribution and you get the result and so i shared my research
too , so the result you can also see who is more deserving ,  Yeah there
shouldn't be any criteria or rules  for everything , but what i learned in
open source is you are introduced by the contributions you have done , so
send someone who has more contributions and so , there is my research ,
just look into it , i assure you will get a result soon .
Lemme Share my Research Again

Milena Lavanchyhttps://github.com/MilenaLavanchy


Jaminy Prabaharan
https://github.com/Jaminy
https://salsa.debian.org/Jaminy-guest

*Urvika Gola*
https://salsa.debian.org/urvikagola-guest
https://github.com/Urvika-gola

Dashamir Hoxha
https://github.com/dashohoxha


*Lucas Kanashiro*https://qa.debian.org/develope
r.php?login=kanash...@debian.org











*https://github.com/lucaskanashiro
Chirayu
Desaihttps://github.com/chirayudesai
https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=chirayudes...@gmail.com
Pranav
Jainhttps://github.com/pranavjain Molly De
Blanchttps://github.com/mollydb Karen M.
Sandlerhttps://github.com/karensandler
Olly Bettshttps://github.com/ojwb
*

Regards,
Manas Kashyap



On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Dashamir Hoxha 
wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:03 PM Manas Kashyap 
> wrote:
>
>> I agree with this point , and sorry , is there a criteria like only girls
>> admin can go for it .
>>
>
> In my opinion, any selection criteria that can be defined now, can be
> valid (if decided)
> only for the next GSoC. Because it seems not fair to change or make up
> rules in the
> middle of the game.
>
> So, for this year, since no criteria can be valid, it remains to the
> admins to make the selection
> as they think it best.
>
> Honestly, I don't think there need to be criteria or rules for everything.
>
> Dashamir
>

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Manas Kashyap]

FCFS is not the right way to select a person for this summit , if this is
the case send Lucas Kanashiro , for the summit , he came first plus he has
many contributions in Debian that are visible to every community member ,
and as mentor what you think is doesn't matter as , you are not going to
represent yourself , you are going to represent Debian (one of the biggest
community in World) .
So , send someone , who has done some contribution that are visible to
everyone .
So , send Lucas Kanashiro and Chirayu Desai and if Dashamir can go then
perfect .

On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:25 PM, Jaminy Prabaharan 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> As a mentor, all of them are eligible to attend the summit since they're
> already familiar with Debian to represent there.
> The mentoring cannot be quantitatively measured and compared.I would
> suggest to go for simple queue (first come first serve) rather
> than the complex algorithms.
>
> We could also split the fund for three if one of them is traveling from
> nearby country. So, I would suggest the interested people to
> include their names in the waiting list. Others might get the chance next
> time as far as they continue to be a mentor.
>
> Best Regards,
> Jaminy.
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:29 PM, Manas Kashyap <
> manaskashyapt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Milena Lavanchyhttps://github.com/MilenaLavanchy
>> 
>>
>> Jaminy Prabaharan
>> https://github.com/Jaminy
>> https://salsa.debian.org/Jaminy-guest
>>
>> *Urvika Gola*
>> https://salsa.debian.org/urvikagola-guest
>> https://github.com/Urvika-gola
>>
>> Dashamir Hoxha
>> https://github.com/dashohoxha
>>
>>
>> *Lucas Kanashiro*https://qa.debian.org/develope
>> r.php?login=kanash...@debian.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *https://github.com/lucaskanashiro
>> Chirayu
>> Desaihttps://github.com/chirayudesai
>> https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=chirayudes...@gmail.com
>> Pranav
>> Jainhttps://github.com/pranavjain Molly De
>> Blanchttps://github.com/mollydb Karen M.
>> Sandlerhttps://github.com/karensandler
>> Olly Bettshttps://github.com/ojwb
>> *
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:18 PM, Manas Kashyap <
>> manaskashyapt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I was going through the profile of the mentors who showed their interest
>>> in Mentor summit , and i found two best candidate (just a contributors
>>> point of view ) for this mentor summit (as Dashamir Hoxa can't go and
>>> Daniel Don't want to)  , therefore , i request the Debian community to look
>>> at their profile and select the person who has more knowledge and more
>>> contribution in open source projects (especially Debian) as its one of the
>>> prestigious Summit where we have to represent Debian .
>>>
>>> Therefore i Request the Mentors who are at the Admin team to review it ,
>>> and select the right guy or girl .
>>>
>>> Thank you
>>> Manas Kashyap
>>> wiki.debian.org/ManasKashyap
>>> about.me/manaskashyap
>>>
>>> https://github.com/MilenaLavanchy
>>> https://github.com/Jaminy
>>> https://salsa.debian.org/urvikagola-guest
>>> https://salsa.debian.org/Jaminy-guest
>>> https://github.com/Urvika-gola
>>> https://github.com/dashohoxha
>>> https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=kanash...@debian.org
>>> https://github.com/lucaskanashiro
>>> https://github.com/chirayudesai
>>> https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=chirayudes...@gmail.com
>>> https://github.com/pranavjain
>>> https://github.com/mollydb
>>> https://github.com/karensandler
>>> https://github.com/ojwb
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Dashamir Hoxha]

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:03 PM Manas Kashyap 
wrote:

> I agree with this point , and sorry , is there a criteria like only girls
> admin can go for it .
>

In my opinion, any selection criteria that can be defined now, can be valid
(if decided)
only for the next GSoC. Because it seems not fair to change or make up
rules in the
middle of the game.

So, for this year, since no criteria can be valid, it remains to the admins
to make the selection
as they think it best.

Honestly, I don't think there need to be criteria or rules for everything.

Dashamir

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Jaminy Prabaharan]

Hi,

As a mentor, all of them are eligible to attend the summit since they're
already familiar with Debian to represent there.
The mentoring cannot be quantitatively measured and compared.I would
suggest to go for simple queue (first come first serve) rather
than the complex algorithms.

We could also split the fund for three if one of them is traveling from
nearby country. So, I would suggest the interested people to
include their names in the waiting list. Others might get the chance next
time as far as they continue to be a mentor.

Best Regards,
Jaminy.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:29 PM, Manas Kashyap 
wrote:

>
> Milena Lavanchyhttps://github.com/MilenaLavanchy
> 
>
> Jaminy Prabaharan
> https://github.com/Jaminy
> https://salsa.debian.org/Jaminy-guest
>
> *Urvika Gola*
> https://salsa.debian.org/urvikagola-guest
> https://github.com/Urvika-gola
>
> Dashamir Hoxha
> https://github.com/dashohoxha
>
>
> *Lucas Kanashiro*https://qa.debian.org/develope
> r.php?login=kanash...@debian.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *https://github.com/lucaskanashiro
> Chirayu
> Desaihttps://github.com/chirayudesai
> https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=chirayudes...@gmail.com
> Pranav
> Jainhttps://github.com/pranavjain Molly De
> Blanchttps://github.com/mollydb Karen M.
> Sandlerhttps://github.com/karensandler
> Olly Bettshttps://github.com/ojwb
> *
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:18 PM, Manas Kashyap <
> manaskashyapt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I was going through the profile of the mentors who showed their interest
>> in Mentor summit , and i found two best candidate (just a contributors
>> point of view ) for this mentor summit (as Dashamir Hoxa can't go and
>> Daniel Don't want to)  , therefore , i request the Debian community to look
>> at their profile and select the person who has more knowledge and more
>> contribution in open source projects (especially Debian) as its one of the
>> prestigious Summit where we have to represent Debian .
>>
>> Therefore i Request the Mentors who are at the Admin team to review it ,
>> and select the right guy or girl .
>>
>> Thank you
>> Manas Kashyap
>> wiki.debian.org/ManasKashyap
>> about.me/manaskashyap
>>
>> https://github.com/MilenaLavanchy
>> https://github.com/Jaminy
>> https://salsa.debian.org/urvikagola-guest
>> https://salsa.debian.org/Jaminy-guest
>> https://github.com/Urvika-gola
>> https://github.com/dashohoxha
>> https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=kanash...@debian.org
>> https://github.com/lucaskanashiro
>> https://github.com/chirayudesai
>> https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=chirayudes...@gmail.com
>> https://github.com/pranavjain
>> https://github.com/mollydb
>> https://github.com/karensandler
>> https://github.com/ojwb
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Manas Kashyap]

Milena Lavanchyhttps://github.com/MilenaLavanchy


Jaminy Prabaharan
https://github.com/Jaminy
https://salsa.debian.org/Jaminy-guest

*Urvika Gola*
https://salsa.debian.org/urvikagola-guest
https://github.com/Urvika-gola

Dashamir Hoxha
https://github.com/dashohoxha


*Lucas Kanashiro*https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=kanashiro@
debian.org












*https://github.com/lucaskanashiro
Chirayu
Desaihttps://github.com/chirayudesai
https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=chirayudes...@gmail.com
Pranav
Jainhttps://github.com/pranavjain Molly De
Blanchttps://github.com/mollydb Karen M.
Sandlerhttps://github.com/karensandler
Olly Bettshttps://github.com/ojwb
*


On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:18 PM, Manas Kashyap 
wrote:

> I was going through the profile of the mentors who showed their interest
> in Mentor summit , and i found two best candidate (just a contributors
> point of view ) for this mentor summit (as Dashamir Hoxa can't go and
> Daniel Don't want to)  , therefore , i request the Debian community to look
> at their profile and select the person who has more knowledge and more
> contribution in open source projects (especially Debian) as its one of the
> prestigious Summit where we have to represent Debian .
>
> Therefore i Request the Mentors who are at the Admin team to review it ,
> and select the right guy or girl .
>
> Thank you
> Manas Kashyap
> wiki.debian.org/ManasKashyap
> about.me/manaskashyap
>
> https://github.com/MilenaLavanchy
> https://github.com/Jaminy
> https://salsa.debian.org/urvikagola-guest
> https://salsa.debian.org/Jaminy-guest
> https://github.com/Urvika-gola
> https://github.com/dashohoxha
> https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=kanash...@debian.org
> https://github.com/lucaskanashiro
> https://github.com/chirayudesai
> https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=chirayudes...@gmail.com
> https://github.com/pranavjain
> https://github.com/mollydb
> https://github.com/karensandler
> https://github.com/ojwb
>
>
>

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Manas Kashyap]

I was going through the profile of the mentors who showed their interest in
Mentor summit , and i found two best candidate (just a contributors point
of view ) for this mentor summit (as Dashamir Hoxa can't go and Daniel
Don't want to)  , therefore , i request the Debian community to look at
their profile and select the person who has more knowledge and more
contribution in open source projects (especially Debian) as its one of the
prestigious Summit where we have to represent Debian .

Therefore i Request the Mentors who are at the Admin team to review it ,
and select the right guy or girl .

Thank you
Manas Kashyap
wiki.debian.org/ManasKashyap
about.me/manaskashyap

https://github.com/MilenaLavanchy
https://github.com/Jaminy
https://salsa.debian.org/urvikagola-guest
https://salsa.debian.org/Jaminy-guest
https://github.com/Urvika-gola
https://github.com/dashohoxha
https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=kanash...@debian.org
https://github.com/lucaskanashiro
https://github.com/chirayudesai
https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=chirayudes...@gmail.com
https://github.com/pranavjain
https://github.com/mollydb
https://github.com/karensandler
https://github.com/ojwb

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Manas Kashyap]

If that's the case why not Lucas Kanashiro (as Dashamir Hoxa can't go and
Daniel Don't want to)  , can go to represent Debian , well i see he has
done some great contributions , not criticising  any mentor, sorry for that
, just keeping my point of view.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 3:25 PM, Manas Kashyap 
wrote:

> I am not telling that any mentors are good or bad , but I request admins
> to atleast look their github or salsa repo that how they are helping
> students by their mentoring . So that the well deserving Mentors , can go
> to Summit to represent Debian .
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:58 PM, Dashamir Hoxha 
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 9:15 AM Manas Kashyap 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry , for interruption between the mentors ,
>>> But can i know except rolling the dice ,
>>> What are the things that a mentor should know and after how many
>>> contribution ,they can go for this prestigious Summit
>>>
>>
>> To my understanding, the only GSoC requirement for a mentor is that he
>> has mentored a project on the last GSoC term. The rest of selection
>> criteria (if any) is up to the admin(s). So, the mentors of the past years
>> (for example) do not count for participation on the summit, no matter how
>> many contributions they have done.
>>
>>
>>> And why there is rolling of dice rather then a formal written format for
>>> it and a review of best admin to represent Debian in Mentor summit .
>>>
>>> I know , i am not mentor and i shouldn't interfere in this matter but ,
>>> as a part of Debian community . I am just asking some questions.
>>>
>>
>> Since this discussion is happening on a list that has mostly students, I
>> guess that it is Ok for the students to participate in the discussion.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dashamir
>>
>>
>

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Dashamir Hoxha]

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 9:15 AM Manas Kashyap 
wrote:

> Sorry , for interruption between the mentors ,
> But can i know except rolling the dice ,
> What are the things that a mentor should know and after how many
> contribution ,they can go for this prestigious Summit
>

To my understanding, the only GSoC requirement for a mentor is that he has
mentored a project on the last GSoC term. The rest of selection criteria
(if any) is up to the admin(s). So, the mentors of the past years (for
example) do not count for participation on the summit, no matter how many
contributions they have done.


> And why there is rolling of dice rather then a formal written format for
> it and a review of best admin to represent Debian in Mentor summit .
>
> I know , i am not mentor and i shouldn't interfere in this matter but , as
> a part of Debian community . I am just asking some questions.
>

Since this discussion is happening on a list that has mostly students, I
guess that it is Ok for the students to participate in the discussion.

Regards,
Dashamir

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Manas Kashyap]

Sorry , for interruption between the mentors ,
But can i know except rolling the dice ,
What are the things that a mentor should know and after how many
contribution ,they can go for this prestigious Summit
And why there is rolling of dice rather then a formal written format for it
and a review of best admin to represent Debian in Mentor summit .

I know , i am not mentor and i shouldn't interfere in this matter but , as
a part of Debian community . I am just asking some questions.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 7:54 AM, Molly de Blanc  wrote:

> I think it would be good for us to send one mentor and one admin. Jaminy
> (who has been a great admin) expressed interest. Are there any objections?
>
> Unless anyone else has strong feelings, I'm inclined to literally roll
> the dice and randomly pick someone.
>
> Cheers,
> Molly
>
>
> On 08/09/2018 03:47 PM, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 09/08/18 16:47, Lucas Kanashiro wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On 08/09/2018 06:16 AM, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On 09/08/18 00:57, Lucas Kanashiro wrote:
>  I do not know if you understood what I was saying... I am not arguing
>  that people that do not maintain packages do not worthwhile (I know
> the
>  Debian constitution). I was claiming that even mentors can be
> newcomers
>  in our project, and if want to keep them tighten to our community, a
>  conference such as Debconf is the right place.
> 
> >>> Yes, I fully agree we need to make it easy for people to attend Debian
> >>> events and events where Debian has a stronger presence (reminder: the
> >>> DPL offers[1] USD 100 to anyone for travel to a BSP, contact[2] him for
> >>> details)
> >>>
> >>> For the summit, however, we still need to decide whether to use some or
> >>> all of the criteria that have come up or just to fall back on the
> >>> previous algorithm: randomly pick from those people who never attended
> >>> the summit before.
> >>>
> >>> >From what I can see, there are now 6 candidates (Dashamir, Lucas,
> >>> Jaminy, Urvika, Chirayu, Milena) and none of them attended before, is
> >>> that correct?
> >>>
> >>> To tweak the previous algorithm to ensure diversity, we could start by
> >>> randomly selecting one of the 3 women and then make a random selection
> >>> from the remaining 5 candidates.  As Molly is the only remaining person
> >>> named in the last delegation, perhaps we can ask her to roll the dice?
> >>
> >> You can ensure diversity for sure (1 slot for women). But again, pick
> >> randomly people that may not understand what Debian is to represent the
> >> project might not be a good idea. I think that I already made my point,
> >> I'll leave this decision up to admins.
> >>
> >
> > I'm not saying this is the best approach, only that if we don't get a
> > lot of feedback from people it may be easier to simply fall back on the
> > default (or something very close to it) from previous years.
> >
> > If somebody wants to volunteer to take the possible criteria and work
> > them into a new selection procedure now is the time.
> >
> > For example, this could be a nice little script in the outreach-admin
> > repo on Salsa:
> >
> > 1. putting all the candidates in a table, with boolean values for each
> > of the criteria
> >
> > 2. making a set of all candidate pairs that satisfy the selection goals
> > (every mentor should appear in at least one pair)
> >
> > 3. randomly choosing one of the pairs from the set
> >
> > Step (2) is the part of the process that may need some thinking about.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Daniel
> >
> >
>
>

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Dashamir Hoxha]

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 7:57 AM Molly de Blanc  wrote:

> I think it would be good for us to send one mentor and one admin. Jaminy
> (who has been a great admin) expressed interest. Are there any objections?
>
> Unless anyone else has strong feelings, I'm inclined to literally roll
> the dice and randomly pick someone.
>

Making a transparent random selection online is almost impossible,
even using cryptographic tools and techniques. Fortunately you don't
have to make it neither transparent nor random (and you are already
using some criteria, which defy the idea of random selection).

So I would suggest that you use your best judgment to make the selection,
instead of pretending or really making it random. To the criteria that you
proposed you may also add the criteria of selecting a member from
underrepresented communities (a woman), and that simplifies a lot your
selection.

Regards,
Dashamir

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Molly de Blanc]

I think it would be good for us to send one mentor and one admin. Jaminy
(who has been a great admin) expressed interest. Are there any objections?

Unless anyone else has strong feelings, I'm inclined to literally roll
the dice and randomly pick someone.

Cheers,
Molly


On 08/09/2018 03:47 PM, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> 
> 
> On 09/08/18 16:47, Lucas Kanashiro wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 08/09/2018 06:16 AM, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>>>
>>> On 09/08/18 00:57, Lucas Kanashiro wrote:
 I do not know if you understood what I was saying... I am not arguing
 that people that do not maintain packages do not worthwhile (I know the
 Debian constitution). I was claiming that even mentors can be newcomers
 in our project, and if want to keep them tighten to our community, a
 conference such as Debconf is the right place.

>>> Yes, I fully agree we need to make it easy for people to attend Debian
>>> events and events where Debian has a stronger presence (reminder: the
>>> DPL offers[1] USD 100 to anyone for travel to a BSP, contact[2] him for
>>> details)
>>>
>>> For the summit, however, we still need to decide whether to use some or
>>> all of the criteria that have come up or just to fall back on the
>>> previous algorithm: randomly pick from those people who never attended
>>> the summit before.
>>>
>>> >From what I can see, there are now 6 candidates (Dashamir, Lucas,
>>> Jaminy, Urvika, Chirayu, Milena) and none of them attended before, is
>>> that correct?
>>>
>>> To tweak the previous algorithm to ensure diversity, we could start by
>>> randomly selecting one of the 3 women and then make a random selection
>>> from the remaining 5 candidates.  As Molly is the only remaining person
>>> named in the last delegation, perhaps we can ask her to roll the dice?
>>
>> You can ensure diversity for sure (1 slot for women). But again, pick
>> randomly people that may not understand what Debian is to represent the
>> project might not be a good idea. I think that I already made my point,
>> I'll leave this decision up to admins.
>>
> 
> I'm not saying this is the best approach, only that if we don't get a
> lot of feedback from people it may be easier to simply fall back on the
> default (or something very close to it) from previous years.
> 
> If somebody wants to volunteer to take the possible criteria and work
> them into a new selection procedure now is the time.
> 
> For example, this could be a nice little script in the outreach-admin
> repo on Salsa:
> 
> 1. putting all the candidates in a table, with boolean values for each
> of the criteria
> 
> 2. making a set of all candidate pairs that satisfy the selection goals
> (every mentor should appear in at least one pair)
> 
> 3. randomly choosing one of the pairs from the set
> 
> Step (2) is the part of the process that may need some thinking about.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Daniel
> 
> 

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Lucas Kanashiro]

On 08/09/2018 06:16 AM, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>
> On 09/08/18 00:57, Lucas Kanashiro wrote:
>> I do not know if you understood what I was saying... I am not arguing
>> that people that do not maintain packages do not worthwhile (I know the
>> Debian constitution). I was claiming that even mentors can be newcomers
>> in our project, and if want to keep them tighten to our community, a
>> conference such as Debconf is the right place.
>>
> Yes, I fully agree we need to make it easy for people to attend Debian
> events and events where Debian has a stronger presence (reminder: the
> DPL offers[1] USD 100 to anyone for travel to a BSP, contact[2] him for
> details)
>
> For the summit, however, we still need to decide whether to use some or
> all of the criteria that have come up or just to fall back on the
> previous algorithm: randomly pick from those people who never attended
> the summit before.
>
> >From what I can see, there are now 6 candidates (Dashamir, Lucas,
> Jaminy, Urvika, Chirayu, Milena) and none of them attended before, is
> that correct?
>
> To tweak the previous algorithm to ensure diversity, we could start by
> randomly selecting one of the 3 women and then make a random selection
> from the remaining 5 candidates.  As Molly is the only remaining person
> named in the last delegation, perhaps we can ask her to roll the dice?

You can ensure diversity for sure (1 slot for women). But again, pick
randomly people that may not understand what Debian is to represent the
project might not be a good idea. I think that I already made my point,
I'll leave this decision up to admins.

Regards,
Lucas Kanashiro




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Lucas Kanashiro]

On 08/08/2018 06:34 PM, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>
> On 08/08/18 15:49, Lucas Kanashiro wrote:
>>
>> On 08/08/2018 06:59 AM, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>>> On 08/08/18 10:50, Pranav Jain wrote:
 I agree to the point that we need to consider the past contributions
 to Debian. These contributions might not directly be technical but
 other sort too (volunteering for events, hosting mini Deb conf etc).

 I agree that quantifying these things is difficult. But, we need to
 have some parameters like bursary team do for DebConf.

>>> If both candidates have to be people with strong Debian experience then
>>> we end up with a situation where new people never get any momentum, so
>>> maybe we could aim to have one person who is an established contributor
>>> and one person who is from the wider community or a first time mentor.
>>> Is that a position that other people tend to agree with, or are people
>>> asking for both mentors to be strong contributors to Debian?
>> I understand that you want to give an opportunity to everybody but IMHO
>
> I am working on the assumption that everybody puts in an equal amount of
> effort as a mentor and therefore we need to try and ensure everybody has
> an equal chance to attend the summit at least once.
>
> Even if we are saying that one place has to go to somebody with wider
> Debian experience, everybody else then has an opportunity to get the
> other place.
>
>
>> we are talking about two different types of conferences. In one hand we
>> have conferences that create an environment to attract people, make them
>> understand what is the project and try to absorb them, those are
>> debconfs and minidebconfs for instance. In the other hand we have these
>> "external" events where there is no sentiment of Debian community but we
>> need to be there to share our knowledge and bring new ideas to the
>> project,  this mentor summit fits well here. My point is that summits
>> like this is not the best place to try to gather new contributors.
>
> Do other people feel we should look at it this way?
>
> If the people we are selecting were being invited to give talks to the
> whole conference audience then we may need to look more closely at how
> well prepared they are.
>
> In the past, it was an unconference event where people would split up
> for lots of little workshops on just about any topic that people wanted
> to propose.  This year they mentioned it will have a new format.
>
> As Olly mentioned, he will be there with another organization and there
> may be a few other Debian people there too in other roles.  I was there
> with Ganglia in 2014 but we don't have a Ganglia t-shirt so I wore my
> Debian shirt.  I think that we had 5 people in a Debian photo one year.
> So while I agree that we should make Debian experience and philosophy a
> factor for at least one candidate, I feel that it is only one of several
> factors.
>
>
>> For example, in the Debconf 18 I met a great GSoC mentor that had never
>> interacted with Debian community before (just in the context of GSoC)
>> and I felt that after this experience he will get more involved with
>> different areas of the project (he wanted to start packaging some
>> softwares and he is already involved in the organization of a BID for
>> the next debconfs)
>>
>> Those are just my thoughts about this subject :)
>>
> The Debian constitution[1] explicitly mentions packaging as an activity
> of a developer but the same paragraph also refers to "other work which
> the Project Leader's Delegate(s) consider worthwhile"
>
> So people who only do something like mentoring or helping DebConf and
> nothing else are eligible to be DDs on that basis, although it may be
> argued they would be in the non-uploading category.  Some people already
> became DDs that way.

I do not know if you understood what I was saying... I am not arguing
that people that do not maintain packages do not worthwhile (I know the
Debian constitution). I was claiming that even mentors can be newcomers
in our project, and if want to keep them tighten to our community, a
conference such as Debconf is the right place.

Regards,
Lucas Kanashiro.



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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Milena Lavanchy]

Hello,

I am interested in attending the summit.

Regards,
Milena Lavanchy

2018-08-08 15:49 GMT+02:00 Lucas Kanashiro :

>
>
> On 08/08/2018 06:59 AM, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> >
> > On 08/08/18 10:50, Pranav Jain wrote:
> >> I agree to the point that we need to consider the past contributions
> >> to Debian. These contributions might not directly be technical but
> >> other sort too (volunteering for events, hosting mini Deb conf etc).
> >>
> >> I agree that quantifying these things is difficult. But, we need to
> >> have some parameters like bursary team do for DebConf.
> >>
> >
> > If both candidates have to be people with strong Debian experience then
> > we end up with a situation where new people never get any momentum, so
> > maybe we could aim to have one person who is an established contributor
> > and one person who is from the wider community or a first time mentor.
> > Is that a position that other people tend to agree with, or are people
> > asking for both mentors to be strong contributors to Debian?
>
> I understand that you want to give an opportunity to everybody but IMHO
> we are talking about two different types of conferences. In one hand we
> have conferences that create an environment to attract people, make them
> understand what is the project and try to absorb them, those are
> debconfs and minidebconfs for instance. In the other hand we have these
> "external" events where there is no sentiment of Debian community but we
> need to be there to share our knowledge and bring new ideas to the
> project,  this mentor summit fits well here. My point is that summits
> like this is not the best place to try to gather new contributors.
>
> For example, in the Debconf 18 I met a great GSoC mentor that had never
> interacted with Debian community before (just in the context of GSoC)
> and I felt that after this experience he will get more involved with
> different areas of the project (he wanted to start packaging some
> softwares and he is already involved in the organization of a BID for
> the next debconfs)
>
> Those are just my thoughts about this subject :)
>
> Cheers,
> Lucas Kanashiro
>
>

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Lucas Kanashiro]

On 08/08/2018 06:59 AM, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>
> On 08/08/18 10:50, Pranav Jain wrote:
>> I agree to the point that we need to consider the past contributions
>> to Debian. These contributions might not directly be technical but
>> other sort too (volunteering for events, hosting mini Deb conf etc).
>>
>> I agree that quantifying these things is difficult. But, we need to
>> have some parameters like bursary team do for DebConf.
>>
>
> If both candidates have to be people with strong Debian experience then
> we end up with a situation where new people never get any momentum, so
> maybe we could aim to have one person who is an established contributor
> and one person who is from the wider community or a first time mentor.
> Is that a position that other people tend to agree with, or are people
> asking for both mentors to be strong contributors to Debian?

I understand that you want to give an opportunity to everybody but IMHO
we are talking about two different types of conferences. In one hand we
have conferences that create an environment to attract people, make them
understand what is the project and try to absorb them, those are
debconfs and minidebconfs for instance. In the other hand we have these
"external" events where there is no sentiment of Debian community but we
need to be there to share our knowledge and bring new ideas to the
project,  this mentor summit fits well here. My point is that summits
like this is not the best place to try to gather new contributors.

For example, in the Debconf 18 I met a great GSoC mentor that had never
interacted with Debian community before (just in the context of GSoC)
and I felt that after this experience he will get more involved with
different areas of the project (he wanted to start packaging some
softwares and he is already involved in the organization of a BID for
the next debconfs)

Those are just my thoughts about this subject :)

Cheers,
Lucas Kanashiro



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Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Dashamir Hoxha]

On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 11:59 AM Daniel Pocock  wrote:

> [ . . . . . ]
> Can anybody add anything else?
>

I did not look at the list, but the GSoC rules are clear that it is the
admin(s)
who decide about the participants. If you want to make the process super
democratic this is fine, but in the end it will not change the result,
especially
since there are only 4 interested people (assuming that I cannot make it).

However, since Debian is a democratic organization, and every now and then
they may need to make democratic decisions, it would be good to adopt and
use
any specialized tools for this purpose. Yes, you have wiki and it is as good
as a text file (what can be better than that?) but sometimes it could be
worth
using specialized tools, instead of (ab)using wiki for everything.

For making democratic decisions, a good tool might be LiquidFeedback:
 - https://liquidfeedback.org/
It also seems to be open source.
Maybe there are other solutions that could be useful as well.

Regards,
Dashamir

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Daniel Pocock]

On 08/08/18 10:50, Pranav Jain wrote:
> I agree to the point that we need to consider the past contributions
> to Debian. These contributions might not directly be technical but
> other sort too (volunteering for events, hosting mini Deb conf etc).
> 
> I agree that quantifying these things is difficult. But, we need to
> have some parameters like bursary team do for DebConf.
> 


If both candidates have to be people with strong Debian experience then
we end up with a situation where new people never get any momentum, so
maybe we could aim to have one person who is an established contributor
and one person who is from the wider community or a first time mentor.
Is that a position that other people tend to agree with, or are people
asking for both mentors to be strong contributors to Debian?

I've tried to capture some of the different opinions in a wiki page
here, in no particular order:

https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Outreach/GSoCMentorSummitSelectionPolicy

Can anybody add anything else?

Note that none of this is official policy of the admin team yet, I've
simply being raising these ideas to get a discussion going and have
transparency about the decision.  In the end, it would still be possible
to simply choose the people randomly as well or make a shortlist and
then choose randomly from the last 3 names.

Regards,

Daniel

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Pranav Jain]

I agree to the point that we need to consider the past contributions
to Debian. These contributions might not directly be technical but
other sort too (volunteering for events, hosting mini Deb conf etc).

I agree that quantifying these things is difficult. But, we need to
have some parameters like bursary team do for DebConf.

On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 12:16 PM, Daniel Pocock  wrote:
>
>
> On 07/08/18 21:40, Lucas Kanashiro wrote:
>> Hi Daniel,
>>
>> I agree with the points presented to be part of the selection algorithm
>> (maybe not in the order that you listed) but I would add something to
>> measure the candidate's contributions to Debian Project, since the
>> selected mentors will represent the project there.
>>
>
> Are you suggesting this for both candidates or maybe just an aim to have
> one candidate who is an established contributor or DD and the other
> candidate is arbitrary?
>
> >From a GSoC perspective, I feel that attracting good students and
> mentoring them well is a big contribution to Debian even if the mentor
> doesn't do a lot of other things.
>
> Like contributions to Debian, mentoring quality is actually hard to
> quantify though and as an admin, I wouldn't feel comfortable trying to
> rate somebody else on either contributions to Debian or mentoring skill.
>  Evaluating whether somebody attended the summit last year is easy though.
>
> Regards,
>
> Daniel
>



-- 
Regards,

Pranav Jain

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Daniel Pocock]

On 07/08/18 21:40, Lucas Kanashiro wrote:
> Hi Daniel,
> 
> I agree with the points presented to be part of the selection algorithm
> (maybe not in the order that you listed) but I would add something to
> measure the candidate's contributions to Debian Project, since the
> selected mentors will represent the project there.
> 

Are you suggesting this for both candidates or maybe just an aim to have
one candidate who is an established contributor or DD and the other
candidate is arbitrary?

>From a GSoC perspective, I feel that attracting good students and
mentoring them well is a big contribution to Debian even if the mentor
doesn't do a lot of other things.

Like contributions to Debian, mentoring quality is actually hard to
quantify though and as an admin, I wouldn't feel comfortable trying to
rate somebody else on either contributions to Debian or mentoring skill.
 Evaluating whether somebody attended the summit last year is easy though.

Regards,

Daniel

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Daniel Pocock]

On 07/08/18 23:47, Olly Betts wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 07, 2018 at 09:09:54PM +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>> I didn't see anybody else comment on the selection algorithm publicly so
>> I'd like to throw in a couple of suggestions, so if there are more than
>> 2 people who want to go, the following strategy could be used to
>> eliminate candidates until only two are left:
>>
>> - eliminate candidates who already attended the summit in the past
>>
>> - eliminate candidates who had a DebConf bursary this year
>>
>> - eliminate candidates who had a DebConf bursary within the last 3 years
>>
>> - eliminate candidates who had a bursary for any other major event in
>> the last year
> 
> I tend to agree to Karen that linking this to bursaries is problematic.
> 
> If you're not just going to pick names from a hat then I'd suggest
> favouring people with a track record of contributing to Debian who
> simply haven't been to Debconf or similar recently, and haven't been
> to the mentor summit before.
> 
> (I have no horse in this race - I'll be at the summit but as org admin
> for Xapian).
> 
>> Google set a deadline of 5 September for the two chosen mentors to
>> register with Google but to allow mentors to commence their travel
>> planning, leave authorization and anything else I would propose that we
>> have a Debian deadline for people to express interest by 15 August at
>> 23:59 with a prompt decision by admins after that.
> 
> That will only leave 8 weeks to sort out visas and book flights, which
> is quite tight for those with complicated visa process to navigate.
> People have already had plenty of time to say they want to go, and there
> are already many more candidates than places.
> 

I was conscious of the fact that some people might be in transit or
catching up on a post-DebConf email backlog this week.  There is also
the question of waiting for the mentors to submit evaluations, which
they can only do from Tuesday.

We could bring it forward to Friday night though and try to tell people
on Monday or Tuesday, how do other admins feel about that timeline?

>> As noted in the Google email to mentors on 1 August, every mentor can
>> put their name on the wait list for extra places at the summit, you can
>> do that now using the link provided by Google.
> 
> In some past years a lot of Debian mentors have joined the waitlist, and
> OSPO have asked the admins to coordinate to choose just one.  Such
> things do change with time, but don't be surprised if that happens.
> 
> Also remember that we don't get extra travel funds for wait list places
> this year (which is different to some previous years).  Once the GSoC
> funds are used, you'll need to find more funds or people will have to
> pay for themselves.
> 

People can ask the DPL for travel funds for any purpose on a
case-by-case basis.  I'm not sure what he would say about topping up
travel budget for the summit but ultimately only he can decide on that.
I think we should just encourage people to apply and as with anything
else, leave the final decision about any money to the DPL or whatever
external resources people can tap into.

https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DPL/Reimbursement#Who_will_reimburse_you

Regards,

Daniel

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Olly Betts]

On Tue, Aug 07, 2018 at 09:09:54PM +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> I didn't see anybody else comment on the selection algorithm publicly so
> I'd like to throw in a couple of suggestions, so if there are more than
> 2 people who want to go, the following strategy could be used to
> eliminate candidates until only two are left:
> 
> - eliminate candidates who already attended the summit in the past
> 
> - eliminate candidates who had a DebConf bursary this year
> 
> - eliminate candidates who had a DebConf bursary within the last 3 years
> 
> - eliminate candidates who had a bursary for any other major event in
> the last year

I tend to agree to Karen that linking this to bursaries is problematic.

If you're not just going to pick names from a hat then I'd suggest
favouring people with a track record of contributing to Debian who
simply haven't been to Debconf or similar recently, and haven't been
to the mentor summit before.

(I have no horse in this race - I'll be at the summit but as org admin
for Xapian).

> Google set a deadline of 5 September for the two chosen mentors to
> register with Google but to allow mentors to commence their travel
> planning, leave authorization and anything else I would propose that we
> have a Debian deadline for people to express interest by 15 August at
> 23:59 with a prompt decision by admins after that.

That will only leave 8 weeks to sort out visas and book flights, which
is quite tight for those with complicated visa process to navigate.
People have already had plenty of time to say they want to go, and there
are already many more candidates than places.

> As noted in the Google email to mentors on 1 August, every mentor can
> put their name on the wait list for extra places at the summit, you can
> do that now using the link provided by Google.

In some past years a lot of Debian mentors have joined the waitlist, and
OSPO have asked the admins to coordinate to choose just one.  Such
things do change with time, but don't be surprised if that happens.

Also remember that we don't get extra travel funds for wait list places
this year (which is different to some previous years).  Once the GSoC
funds are used, you'll need to find more funds or people will have to
pay for themselves.

Cheers,
Olly

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Karen Sandler]

Apologies I might not be fully understanding this since I just joined 
this list, but I would probably emphasize contributions to Debian before 
whether or not the person has received a bursary from Debian in the past 
for an unrelated event. I think giving lower priority to people who 
cannot afford to travel on their own is problematic. I think we should 
favor people who are more likely to represent the project well and also 
bring the result of the connections they make there and the things they 
learn back to the Debian community.


best,
karen

On 2018-08-07 15:40, Lucas Kanashiro wrote:

Hi Daniel,

I agree with the points presented to be part of the selection algorithm
(maybe not in the order that you listed) but I would add something to
measure the candidate's contributions to Debian Project, since the
selected mentors will represent the project there.

Regards,

Lucas Kanashiro.


On 08/07/2018 04:09 PM, Daniel Pocock wrote:
On 02/08/18 22:52, Daniel Pocock wrote:
In the past, Debian has given priority to mentors who never attended 
the

summit before.  If anybody (including students) would like to make
suggestions about alternatives or enhancements to this algorithm, 
please

do so, the existing algorithm is not set in stone.

I didn't see anybody else comment on the selection algorithm publicly 
so

I'd like to throw in a couple of suggestions, so if there are more than
2 people who want to go, the following strategy could be used to
eliminate candidates until only two are left:

- eliminate candidates who already attended the summit in the past

- eliminate candidates who had a DebConf bursary this year

- eliminate candidates who had a DebConf bursary within the last 3 
years


- eliminate candidates who had a bursary for any other major event in
the last year

and furthermore, at some point in the algorithm, we could try to ensure
there is at least one candidate for diversity, which may be a woman or
anybody from a non white privileged male background.

In response to Dashamir's comment, I don't think visa policies should 
be

a factor in the decision.  A lot of visa policies appear to be racist
and they fail to treat all people as equal human beings.  They appear 
to

be incompatible with Debian's Code of Conduct.  The candidates can be
selected based on merit and if racism slows down the visa processing 
for

too long and the travel grant is not spent we all know it is not the
mentor's fault and we can check if the money can be used to pay for
travel to some other event in future.

Google set a deadline of 5 September for the two chosen mentors to
register with Google but to allow mentors to commence their travel
planning, leave authorization and anything else I would propose that we
have a Debian deadline for people to express interest by 15 August at
23:59 with a prompt decision by admins after that.

As noted in the Google email to mentors on 1 August, every mentor can
put their name on the wait list for extra places at the summit, you can
do that now using the link provided by Google.

Regards,

Daniel

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Lucas Kanashiro]

Hi Daniel,

I agree with the points presented to be part of the selection algorithm
(maybe not in the order that you listed) but I would add something to
measure the candidate's contributions to Debian Project, since the
selected mentors will represent the project there.

Regards,

Lucas Kanashiro.


On 08/07/2018 04:09 PM, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> On 02/08/18 22:52, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>> In the past, Debian has given priority to mentors who never attended the
>> summit before.  If anybody (including students) would like to make
>> suggestions about alternatives or enhancements to this algorithm, please
>> do so, the existing algorithm is not set in stone.
>>
> I didn't see anybody else comment on the selection algorithm publicly so
> I'd like to throw in a couple of suggestions, so if there are more than
> 2 people who want to go, the following strategy could be used to
> eliminate candidates until only two are left:
>
> - eliminate candidates who already attended the summit in the past
>
> - eliminate candidates who had a DebConf bursary this year
>
> - eliminate candidates who had a DebConf bursary within the last 3 years
>
> - eliminate candidates who had a bursary for any other major event in
> the last year
>
> and furthermore, at some point in the algorithm, we could try to ensure
> there is at least one candidate for diversity, which may be a woman or
> anybody from a non white privileged male background.
>
> In response to Dashamir's comment, I don't think visa policies should be
> a factor in the decision.  A lot of visa policies appear to be racist
> and they fail to treat all people as equal human beings.  They appear to
> be incompatible with Debian's Code of Conduct.  The candidates can be
> selected based on merit and if racism slows down the visa processing for
> too long and the travel grant is not spent we all know it is not the
> mentor's fault and we can check if the money can be used to pay for
> travel to some other event in future.
>
> Google set a deadline of 5 September for the two chosen mentors to
> register with Google but to allow mentors to commence their travel
> planning, leave authorization and anything else I would propose that we
> have a Debian deadline for people to express interest by 15 August at
> 23:59 with a prompt decision by admins after that.
>
> As noted in the Google email to mentors on 1 August, every mentor can
> put their name on the wait list for extra places at the summit, you can
> do that now using the link provided by Google.
>
> Regards,
>
> Daniel
>
>

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Daniel Pocock]

On 02/08/18 22:52, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> In the past, Debian has given priority to mentors who never attended the
> summit before.  If anybody (including students) would like to make
> suggestions about alternatives or enhancements to this algorithm, please
> do so, the existing algorithm is not set in stone.
>

I didn't see anybody else comment on the selection algorithm publicly so
I'd like to throw in a couple of suggestions, so if there are more than
2 people who want to go, the following strategy could be used to
eliminate candidates until only two are left:

- eliminate candidates who already attended the summit in the past

- eliminate candidates who had a DebConf bursary this year

- eliminate candidates who had a DebConf bursary within the last 3 years

- eliminate candidates who had a bursary for any other major event in
the last year

and furthermore, at some point in the algorithm, we could try to ensure
there is at least one candidate for diversity, which may be a woman or
anybody from a non white privileged male background.

In response to Dashamir's comment, I don't think visa policies should be
a factor in the decision.  A lot of visa policies appear to be racist
and they fail to treat all people as equal human beings.  They appear to
be incompatible with Debian's Code of Conduct.  The candidates can be
selected based on merit and if racism slows down the visa processing for
too long and the travel grant is not spent we all know it is not the
mentor's fault and we can check if the money can be used to pay for
travel to some other event in future.

Google set a deadline of 5 September for the two chosen mentors to
register with Google but to allow mentors to commence their travel
planning, leave authorization and anything else I would propose that we
have a Debian deadline for people to express interest by 15 August at
23:59 with a prompt decision by admins after that.

As noted in the Google email to mentors on 1 August, every mentor can
put their name on the wait list for extra places at the summit, you can
do that now using the link provided by Google.

Regards,

Daniel

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Chirayu Desai]

Hi,

I would be interested in attending the mentor summit.

Regards,
Chirayu Desai

On Fri, Aug 3, 2018, 03:21 Daniel Pocock  wrote:

>
> Hi all,
>
> Google has announced the mentor summit will be held on 12-14 October 2018
>
> Debian can choose two mentors who will be fully funded to attend.
> Officially, Google allocated USD 2,200 for Debian to pay their flights
> and visas but if the cost is more than that mentors can request top-up
> funding from the DPL. just like any other proposed travel and the DPL
> will advise if Debian is willing to pay the difference.
>
> In the past, Debian has given priority to mentors who never attended the
> summit before.  If anybody (including students) would like to make
> suggestions about alternatives or enhancements to this algorithm, please
> do so, the existing algorithm is not set in stone.
>
> Personally, I've attended twice and will not be volunteering to go this
> year but I believe it is a good place to meet people from many other
> communities.  I'd encourage anybody who is interested to reply on this
> thread.
>
> Regards,
>
> Daniel
>
>
>

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Urvika Gola]

Hi everybody,

I am interested in attending 2018 mentor summit.

Regards,
Urvika



On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 3:22 AM, Daniel Pocock  wrote:

>
> Hi all,
>
> Google has announced the mentor summit will be held on 12-14 October 2018
>
> Debian can choose two mentors who will be fully funded to attend.
> Officially, Google allocated USD 2,200 for Debian to pay their flights
> and visas but if the cost is more than that mentors can request top-up
> funding from the DPL. just like any other proposed travel and the DPL
> will advise if Debian is willing to pay the difference.
>
> In the past, Debian has given priority to mentors who never attended the
> summit before.  If anybody (including students) would like to make
> suggestions about alternatives or enhancements to this algorithm, please
> do so, the existing algorithm is not set in stone.
>
> Personally, I've attended twice and will not be volunteering to go this
> year but I believe it is a good place to meet people from many other
> communities.  I'd encourage anybody who is interested to reply on this
> thread.
>
> Regards,
>
> Daniel
>
>
>

Re: selecting Debian mentors for the mentor summit

[Jaminy Prabaharan]

Hi all,

I would like to represent the admin team at the summit.

Best Regards,
Jaminy

On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 03:21 Daniel Pocock,  wrote:

>
> Hi all,
>
> Google has announced the mentor summit will be held on 12-14 October 2018
>
> Debian can choose two mentors who will be fully funded to attend.
> Officially, Google allocated USD 2,200 for Debian to pay their flights
> and visas but if the cost is more than that mentors can request top-up
> funding from the DPL. just like any other proposed travel and the DPL
> will advise if Debian is willing to pay the difference.
>
> In the past, Debian has given priority to mentors who never attended the
> summit before.  If anybody (including students) would like to make
> suggestions about alternatives or enhancements to this algorithm, please
> do so, the existing algorithm is not set in stone.
>
> Personally, I've attended twice and will not be volunteering to go this
> year but I believe it is a good place to meet people from many other
> communities.  I'd encourage anybody who is interested to reply on this
> thread.
>
> Regards,
>
> Daniel
>
>
>